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First off, I found this site yesterday and it has been a tremendous help to me - I had no idea what to do. i went out and bought DB and DR and started reading DR last night. Thanks to everyone here as reading some of the posts here have made me feel that I am not alone in this!

I have a WAW who just got out (so she says) of a PA that started as an EA. We have been together 16 years, married almost 15. After the OM broke up with her Sunday, I thoght we may have a chance to work things out (during the PA, she told me it was over. I was given the ILYBINILWY speech. She said she needed her space and we could not have physical contact (there had been some sexual contact during the PA). She confirmed that Sunday, and I was very upset. We discussed that I would leave at the end of June, when school is over (2 kids under 10) and told the kids that we wanted to stop fighting (I was very enraged during the PA when she would leave to spend the night with him). i was very upset after telling the kids and WAW tried to hold and comfort me. She wanted to be friends.

Monday, I told her I needed space, and that I could not be friends to help in coping with the breakup. I would be here for the kids, and thats it. Went to a late movie Monday night, and when I got back, she asked me to go in the hot tub and came on to me. I knew it was the wrong thing to do, but I was very vulnerable, and we ML.

Tuesday i told her I was upset and confused over what happened the night before and went to a hotel for the past 2 nights. Last night I bought DB and DR. I decided to go full 180.

This morning I went home to get the kids on the bus. She tried to hug me and I would not. She told me she loved me and I did not reciprocate. I told her I was moving out toniight (already discussed) and that I was moving on. Slapped on some cologne (which I have not done for years), told her I had plans to go out with friends (which I have not done in years) and that seemed to upset her. Tried not to be to cold, listened to what she had to say, but I was evasive on the future 9just kept saying I was moving on.

Am I somewhat rigt in my 180? Its hard, because I still love her, but I do feel better about myself to some degree.

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Hi hurt--

The BEST 180 is to do the opposite of what your wife's stereotype of you is.

Giving her the cold shoulder when she is reaching out could potentially backfire. The proof will be in the results you get in these days after.

What were thing like when you were in love and everything was wonderful--what were you doing?


What has been going on right before she had the affair...what things had changed between the two of you?


What were you doing differently?


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Are these 180's you are doing in relation she complained about in the past?

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Hurt,

I think you're a little confused about what a "180" is. A "180" is when you do things that are totally different from how you used to do them (say you never helped around the house before, but now you do . . . or before you used to ask her permission to go out with some friends, now you just say "I'm going out with a few friends -- I won't be late," etc.

I'm really sorry you're having to go thru this -- I know it sukks. You feel like a truck is sitting on your chest when you find out, right?

I gotta tell you, this jumped out at me:

Quote:
and told the kids that we wanted to stop fighting (I was very enraged during the PA when she would leave to spend the night with him)


Am I to understand that she would leave your marital home, with both her and her husband KNOWING that she was going to have sex with another man . . . and -- other than your anger -- there were no consequences for this? She would just come and go as she pleased?

Please let me know if I'm understanding this wrong.

It sounds to me like you have some "passive-aggressive" tendencies you need to work on. What you want to get to is a place of QUIET STRENGTH and CONSISTENCY in your interactions with your wife -- no angry outbursts, but no doormat or "needy/grabby" behavior, either. In my opinion, she's using sex as a way to get you to play nice with her plans, and I'm not going to tell you whether or not you should be ML to your own wife, as that's an intensely personal decision. But I WOULD urge you to use protection if you do!!!

Finally, there is much that gets disagreed upon here at DB, and at other marriage forums. Whether or not to expose an affair (DB advises "no"), how long you should "stand" for a marriage when your spouse is unfaithful or going thru a midlife crisis, etc. One thing that is practically UNANIMOUS CONSENSUS is that you DON'T move out of your marital home, or your marital bed, when it's your spouse who is wayward. Not only are there potentially very serious legal repercussions (can be considered "abandonment" in many jurisdictions, and can hurt your chances at custody of your children), but it sends entirely the wrong message. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR OWN HOME, and please discuss everything with an attorney before you do ANYTHING.

I'm NOT saying to be an a-hole -- be civil, courteous -- even loving. NO MORE ARGUING IN FRONT OF THE KIDS. Your family needs a leader and a HERO, and right now, that's not going to be your wife. Not in her current mindset.

That leaves you. smirk


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Originally Posted By: dbmod
Hi hurt--

The BEST 180 is to do the opposite of what your wife's stereotype of you is.

Giving her the cold shoulder when she is reaching out could potentially backfire. [/quote


I agree with this. As I just posted to you, whether or not to ML is an intensely personal decision. But I certainly wouldn't advise you to be COLD to her, as she's only going to say/think "See? This is why it'd never work between us." If you don't feel right hugging/kissing/ML while your wife is still wayward, just lovingly say "Honey, I would love to, but I just don't think that's a good idea right now, considering everything. I do love you, and I DON'T want a divorce, but I'm not comfortable having sex when there's a third person in our marriage."

[quote]What has been going on right before she had the affair...what things had changed between the two of you?


What were you doing differently?



In the answers to those ^^^^ , you will find the clues to what happened in your marriage.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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OK, i now understand that moderation takes a few days! I was beginning to wonder what happened. Thans for the replies, but a lot has gone on the past few days, and I will add some more back story.

I now have a better understanding of the 180, and what it means, both through reading here, elswhere, and DR. I am about half way through DR (hard to squeeze in the reading time).

To starsky - regarding the arguing, that was very early on in things, when she admitted to it, said it was over, but was lying and it wasn't. I agree, I have some passive agressive tendencies and am working at them. I actually have been a lot more tolerant as time has gone on,but to answer your other question, yes - she would just leave at night (sometimes before kids bedtime but usually after they were in bed, and just go soend the night and return about 6 in the morning, and expect me to deal with it. In her words, she was NILWM, I had to accept that she was moving on. She understands I am hurt, but she is in love.

I did expose the affair while I was on a business trip. I did not kn She was getting angry at me for not treating her well becase of the A and that I needed to stop treating her like crap over it. I found out though toll highway bills that she was seeing him on her lunch hours that week I was away (and rang up over a hundred bucks in toll charges)as well. i felt I had nowhere to turn, she was expecting me just to deal with it, and that she was confused.

Now for some backstory. We have been married just short of 15 years, together for 16. She is a recovering alcoholic, and while she has had bouts of sobriety, there has been a lot of the addiction issues as well. She was also sexually abused as a child) and had some intimacy issues early on. I have (and am now working through) intimacy issues of my own, and was brought up in a 2 parent family that was loveless (literally) and learned to cope by just being stoic - I tend to keep everything internalized and rarely show any kind of emotion - which I realize is not a good thing.

So I was emotionally detached, and she had her bouts of addiction. Sex got less and less, partly because I was shut down, partly because my self esteem took a hit when she would want it more when she was drunk (I felt it was the only way she could stomach being with me was to be drunk). Add kids to the mix and the fact we shared a family bed (my 6 year daughter still mostly sleeps in the bed, my son some of the time (though mostly if I am away now) and I have slept all over the house. i can literally count the times on one hand the amount of times I have spent a night in bed alone with my wife in the past 9 years.

In terms of the affair, I totally get why she did it. It started off as an EA, that started with a phone sex line. She was drinking heavily at the time (out of control actully) and her sex drive started going through the roof. Even if I did give in to her needs (I had a hard time doing so if she was drunk) she said I could not keep up, and she was going to go on the phone to "help". i did not agree, but i could not stop her either due to her state of mind. this led to her meeting the OM, and they actually met on my son's birthday to begin the PA. She told me she was going out with the mother of my son's friend while I took my son and another friend out to dinner and a movie. She confessed maybe a week later, but only after talking about being unhappy and wanting to separate, and how soon she could start dating. She mentioned him and that nothing had happened yet. Then the lies started. She was not seeing him, and was confused.

She actually sobered up just after starting things with him. The lies continued. She was not talking to him, but phone records showed otherwise. Every time things got hard for her, she ran to him for "love and support" Even though I had mellowed about things, did not freak out as much, and was doing some parts of the 180. This continued until a week ago. Sunday the 15th, she told me he called to end it. She seemed genuinely upset, but said our marriage was still over. This is the point where I started the thread). I was unsure what the 180 really was, but know better now.

I actually then spent a coulple of nights with a relative after that as I decided to move out full time. I was coming back in the mornings to put the kids on the bus, and last thursday morning I noticed a blackberry on the table in the living room. I asked wife whose it was and she said OM's. Even though he was made clear he was not supposed to be there, he showed up night before at 11. Wife said nothing happened, he came by to apologize for ending things. I stayed calm, but did one nasty thing. I had asked that she tell OM he come to me to get his phone. She would not agree (afraid i would punch him out) and that he would come by her work and get it. So knowing blackberries, I tried his password 10 times and on the 11th try, the built in security wiped his phone clean so it would need to be reprogrammed. The next day (last friday) she asked me to move home. Maybe work on the marriage, but mostly for the kids. He was out of the picture, or so i thought, so I agreed. More ML that night, and some the next day, though she continued to maintain she did not have feelings for me other than "friends" - some things she could not do as she felt still connected to OM. That night, she went out to a Movie by herself. i figured i'd give her some alone time. I checked her phone on GPS and she went to theatre. I know they were not together because they always stayed in at his apartment while they were together, and she said he was cheap (money not an issue here - I make $100K more a year than OM). I put our daughter to bed, got her down, then put my son to bed, and fell asleep with him (I have not slept well during all of this). I saw she came home when she was supposed to after the movie, put her PJ's on, and went downstairs. I was still in my son's bed, and half asleep when an hour later i heard her go downsatairs and heard the front door shut. I ran down asked where she was going and she said "OM's to settle things as he had called her upset". Told me she'd be an hour.

She messaged me and said she'd be spending the night since she was tired and felt unsafe to drive. I lost it, called her, texted her and said she better come home or else. She blew me off as over reacting,so i said fine. I packed 2 suitcases with her stuff and was going to drive to his place and leave them in her car. But i could not leave the kids. So I messaged her and said that I had chained the dooe and her bags were in the garage.

Next day she said she felt unsafe to come home, so i asked her what she wanted. After she calmed down from being upset (felt she had no support from me or her family (who I outed the A to)and felt alone, she calmed down and seemed to get rational. We went from her moving out when school was over and moving in with him, to deciding she would end it with him, and give our marriage a year to try and work things out, on the proviso that she could decide in one year that it was not working for her. Her thought was if things were meant to be with OM (she thinks she is in love with him) it will be there in a year. She also said she would be fully engaged in working on the marriage for the year. She then went grocery shopping.

She came home and she was angry. She felt like she was being controlled. I sensed that she was all over the map again, and was behaving like an addict without a fix. In fact, I feel a lot of this relationship with OM was addictive behaviour, since the whole thing is an escape to a false reality - no kids, no bills, no messy house. She does not realize that, and thinks he is wonderful and tells her everything she wants to hear! Of course he does. He's a single guy looking for action! he's not going to criticize her. This morning, she was back to being confused about things. I freaked out and said to just move in with him. She said thats not what she wanted - she just wanted time to figure out what she wanted.

Well, that is all she has asked the past 7 weeks during the A. And i know the minute things get the least bit difficult for her, no matter how well I 180, she will run to his bed for 'love and support" So I called her on it. I felt I hd to give an ultimatum. I told her how i felt about her confusion. I told her that if she expected to be treated with dignity and respect (which is what she asked for this morning) it was time for her to do the same. I told her no more games. She had to make a choice - End it tell me now its 100% over with him or not. I am not doing the "in limbo" thing anymore and explained why.

I sense that she will move in with him, but not until the end of the school year (we never finished the call as she had a customer call). She thinks that is best for the kids, but I am not sure I can handle her being there if I know she is leaving, and want her out now. If she moves in, it will be over. i don't think I can take her back at that point. I think staying together and trying to DR and DB is best. She seems to feel that she can't turn her feelings back on for me and off for OM).

That's kind of where things stand, and i will do my best 180 until she leaves. But it ain't gonna be easy.

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Well, she said she had ended it with him, but she had not. Found the same phone I found and she said he gave it to her so they could talk and text without me knowing. Given as she habitually gors over her alloted voice minutes on her own phone, I knew something was fishy when she went to zero useage.

Same ultimatum was given - she cannot continue a relationship with him while still living under our roof. She said again that she was not seeing him - went last night to cut him off, but actually returned well before morning. When she came home, she wanted to ML, and we did.

She told me this morning that he was even changing his number and not telling her. I checked aftetr she left and he had. But in looking at the last number redial on the bedroom phone, I noticed a number that was not there yesterday. So I called it, sure enough it was him.

I cannot take this crap anymore. When she gets home I am going to confront her. Another lie.Today is her birthday, and I really did not want to have to go off on her today. But she leaves me little choice.

How do I 180 if this crap is going on?

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Well, I told her to move out on wednesday and move in with OM, so she did. I am completely lost right now. She says it is absolutely over. She had said she was not sure about ending the marriage, but said it was because she did not want to hurt me

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I know above all I should be in full 180 mode, but I am finding it hard to let go of the anger resentment and hurt-I just do not know what to do?

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