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#2227100 03/03/12 03:19 PM
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As I said on my first post only a few days ago, I am new to DB and marital separation (two months now.) My H has taken our 4-year old daughter out a few times on his own. Last night, she broke down into tears about having to keep secrets which are instructions from her father. The last time my H took her out of the house for some “quality time” they went ice skating. She came home with a single red rose, which is neither nor there, bought by her father. Last night my H asked our daughter if she still liked her rose to which she answered yes and can she have “the other one.” I saw the head shaking and look of disapproval from my H towards our daughter who suddenly frowned and clammed up. After he left she told me again that they spent time together with “daddy’s special friend” and he asked her not to tell me about it. The first time was during the first time my H took our daughter for an overnight stay. Apparently the OW stayed in the hotel room with them, and she was invited to join them on the bed to watch movies. (Yikes, an adult stranger in the bed with a child.)

While I am not delighted by the fact that my H is already exposing our child to a stranger, I am far more disturbed by the fact that he is asking her to a keep a confidence that she does not understand why, not to mention the fact that during these outing the OW and my H are being affectionate with each other in front of our child.

I am working on the 180 methods (and only for a few days now.) While I don’t want to jeopardize my hard work, I don’t think I can stand by watching our child being manipulated and put into adult situations as a preschooler. It is simply wrong. How would anyone feel hearing the words out of child’s mouth “I have to keep a secret and it hurts me inside?” Any thoughts on how to approach my H about stopping this inappropriate behavior without taking steps back in the 180 process?

My apolgies for posting this topic again but a veteran member suggested I post in Newcomers.


M: 39, H: 38
D: 4
Together: 19 Y
Married: 9 Y
Bomb #1: 11/04/11 (5 days b/f anniversary)
Bomb #2 and H left: 01/03/12 (day b/f my bday)
OW: confirmed, they live together already
Joined: Aug 2011
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Welcome princess. Have you read divroce remedy. please do if you haven't. Post often as you will in moderation for a bit. I will post the 37 rules from Sandi for you to start. It is time to focus on you and not what your H is doing. Others with more experinece will chime in soon. Hang in there


1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.

21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).

27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.

30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.

33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes


M 53
D 20
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden





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Thank you.

I have read the Divorce Remedy, and that is how I learned about the 180 and LRT methods. I am working on them already but it really has been a little over a week.

I am going to talk with my therapist tonight about how to address my concerns about our child with H in a responsible and respectful way. I totally get why he is doing this; he wants power and control over his destiny, and he wants to bring our D along for the ride. He thinks I am a mean person and I am incapable of being nice to anyone. He is trying to create a happy little family for himself. He is manipulating our child and has been for a while, even before he walked out the door. No matter what I am always going to be our child’s mom, and showing her a new woman now or even down the road is not going to change that.

I would love to hear your thoughts on how to DB in this situation and after the concern is voiced.


M: 39, H: 38
D: 4
Together: 19 Y
Married: 9 Y
Bomb #1: 11/04/11 (5 days b/f anniversary)
Bomb #2 and H left: 01/03/12 (day b/f my bday)
OW: confirmed, they live together already
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,877
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I totally agree. However - I have had many issues on which I fundamentally disagreed with my H and tried to work on with him to fix the harm I believed he was causing. I have learned through counseling to try to have conversations instead where I own my beliefs and accept the limitations that they are my beliefs and not necessarily universal truths, and I ask him questions about what he believes to find out where he's coming from.

I used to fear having these conversations because the way I came across was that I knew I was right and he was wrong, and knew he was going to get mad or think I was trying to control him, and/or did not know if I was going to be successful or not in persuading him to the "correct" point of view. All wrong.

He has as much belief that he's doing the right thing. You might start by thinking about what he's trying to accomplish. Tell him you have reason to believe D's being asked to keep secrets (if you can do that without tattling on her that would enable her to continue telling you things if this continues to happen). Ask him why he thinks she should not be able to tell you anything? Is he trying to avoid getting you mad or avoid having to deal with you freaking out on him? Can you reassure him that you want to be able to discuss this with him calmly?

Does he disagree with you about whether it's right to be intimate with a lover in front of her? Would he be OK with you doing the same? Tell him you want to be open to the truth so he can share what he's doing and not keep it a secret - you may not like it but you would appreciate knowing it anyway. Try to open up the communication between you two because you're going to have to have a relationship coparenting and need to be able to talk about hard things.

For D, I would recommend telling her she did the right thing and to keep telling you anything she wants. You're the parent and you can make sure it's OK for her to tell you anything. It's really too much for a little kid to cope with having to "take care of" her parents - help daddy not get in trouble, help mommy not be sad. Take that off her shoulders. We taught our kids from age tiny that if anyone ever told them not to tell their parents something, that they should say OK and then immediately tell their parents. It was the only time we told them it was ever ok to lie. We said it would always be OK to tell us a secret.

Good luck to you, will be thinking of you.


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
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Happiness is a warm puppy.
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princessP - you're in good company here.

just a question.. why were they in a hotel room? where did they all sleep?

as a mom.. i see red flags! i would be worried about the "secrets" too. what happens if something more serious happens w/ a neighbour or relative and your D has been taught to keep "secrets"?

i don't know what else to offer right now. i feel when it comes to your kids.. sometimes you just have to go by instincts.

hang in there. keep posting!


Me:38.. H:33.
Two beautiful kids S:6 D:3
M:8.. together for 11.
Bomb dropped:10/17/11
Separated:11/07/11
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My H does not talk to me at all. He comes into our house, plays with our child or picks her up to take her out. I get a "hi" and maybe a quick pat on the back (less than what you see on Sunday night football.) Oddly enough, even the pat on the back is a downgrade from the nice hug he was giving me for over month after he left. Not sure what to make of that, perhaps he is adjusting to his new found freedom.

Frankly, I have no idea where he even lives, in an apartment on his own or with someone. Neither of us have filed for D; although I have consulted a L on several occasions to protect myself financially. He has only said to me once that the house we bought together in Sept. 2011 has to be sold; it's too expensive (agree with that.) Aside from the night he left and a week later when he came to get some of his clothes and toiletries (he went ballistic on me, screaming, no hitting) he has only communicated his decision to end our marriage through my therapist who he knows too. Maybe the papers will arrive any day now. Maybe then I won’t feel in limbo. What I mean by limbo for me is whether or not I move out (after the house is sold) and do the DBing from a distance. I have to consider where I enroll our child next September for school and extra-curricular activities; let our child have lasting friendships somewhere; figure out whether or not I commute to work for a little while until I find a new job or move closer to where I work currently…lots of aspects of life are in limbo.

Right now, my H has to borrow my car to take our D out for the day; he drives a fancy sports car (given to him by my father no less.) He waits until the last minute to tell me where they are going, and I have to ask most times. Once he gets her out then I get last minute emails/texts saying they will be even later than originally requested.

To Barely Floating, my H took our D out towards my sister-in-law’s for what was originally presented to me as a day of swimming (an old family – his family not mine – tradition of taking a hotel room for the day to use the indoor pool.) Then it turned into an overnight in the hotel. I knew he would be drinking so I let it go and agreed to letting her stay overnight. I only know what my 4-year old told me so I don’t know where the OW finally laid her head for the night. In regular society when a man lays down with a minor-aged child it is considered deviant behavior. Women should be held to the same standard; my H or the other OW should have said “that would not be appropriate.” Seriously, how would my H or anyone out there perceive my inviting a strange man to lay down with a little girl? It creeps me out thinking about it.

The secret keeping is very dangerous, especially in the day and age we all live in now. How many children out there keep secrets, and when something really awful happens they don’t share because they were taught not to say anything or some form of punishment or disapproval would go their way.

Never in all of my 19 years with my H would have thought he had the capacity to manipulate our child or anyone. He is under the influence of his new found control, wealth, and promiscuity and is drunk with power. Sadly, our child is a pawn to him and he continues to believe that he is the victim.

Despite these serious lapses in judgment I still very much love my H and know that he is the one for me, and that is why I will DB until the end. I just want our child out of this entanglement.

I put the question out to the Newcomers, veteran DBers, the moderators, and coaches, how do you manage to DB successfully and keep your kids out of the manipulations from the spouse who did the leaving?


M: 39, H: 38
D: 4
Together: 19 Y
Married: 9 Y
Bomb #1: 11/04/11 (5 days b/f anniversary)
Bomb #2 and H left: 01/03/12 (day b/f my bday)
OW: confirmed, they live together already
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
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Originally Posted By: PrincessP
As I have said in my recent posts I am very new to the DB Online Community. I have read The Divorce Remedy so no need to list the 37 guidelines. There are a lot of threads to read through, and I have read many of them in my short week plus here. One thing I wonder about the Community is there anyone or more people who feel time is not going to work in your favor?

In my case, my H walked out two months ago. He wants to sell the house we bought in Sept 2011. I agree it is a financial albatross, and there is no way I can afford it on my own even as a career woman making a decent living. My choices after it is sold are to move almost 100 miles away to be closer to my parents and friends who can support me emotionally and help me with raising our preschool-aged D; or move 20 miles into the big city where I work fulltime and could maintain a caregiver situation. In either scenario I feel the palpable message to my H is “yes, I agree we are done and see ya” versus my quietly working on the M. Consider it from the spouse’s perspective who does not know what we DBers are up to. Are they seeing the concession to sell the family home, move away whatever the distance, etc. as prelude to D?

I also have to consider our child who is only 4. It will soon be time to re-enroll her in preschool. I’m not a Rockefeller so I can’t enroll her in one school to only enroll somewhere else (and lose the enrollment fees) because the house sold, and we moved away (far or close.) We have new neighbors with three kids around our D’s age. I use the winter weather as an excuse to not engage in play dates. What would be the point in having everything change for our D, even new friends, when there is so much practical limbo for her (and me but I am an adult and understand what is happening, to an extent.)

Anyone else been in a fight against time?


From other thread, stick to this one please until you get to 100 posts


Me-70, D37,S36
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Originally Posted By: cat04
PP,
Please take your time to make decisions that are right for you and your child.


CAT is giving you great advice.

You have the ability to forge what is right for you and your D4, that is what should be your prime focus right now.

Do it from a place of calm, you will make the best descions that way.


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Hi PP, I'm not in the same situation you are but early on I came up with many different versions of what I "had" to do. I did none of them and I'n happy I took the time to think and not allow my decisions to be coerced by my H's actions or what friends thought I should do.

I did consult an attorney and then decided to make no life-altering decisions from the emotional state I was in.

It does take time to work through the emotional storm of this.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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My counselor used to talk me down when I added hyperbole and imagined threats to the real resentments I had against my H. She would ask me questions and ask H questions and I would realize that I was assuming things and getting all panicky to drive up my outrage about what he was doing.

In reality, H's "girlfriend" relaxing with the child on a hotel room bed in the daytime to watch tv is probably a very low threat to your child. Outrageous and hurtful to you, yes, but you won't get him on your side or talking to you about it if you exaggerate and don't appear rational to him.

You need to get him talking to you reasonably about your daughter because if he expects to be divorced he'll be coparenting with you. It's time to start now, by keeping clear channels of communication so you both can agree on what is best for your daughter. Ask him if he's willing to do that.

At the same time, you probably need a lawyer's input now. You can get a free consultation that can be very informative if you don't spend time crying or exaggerating. Go in with specific questions about what your rights are and how you can make sure D is safe. You might need to draw up a visitation agreement with H.


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
__
Happiness is a warm puppy.
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