What Do I Do? Help!

[leopoldstotch]

Hello DBer's. I've been married to my W for over 19yrs. I'm 43 the W is 42. We have two S 14 & 22. I can best describe our marriage as love/hate. We seperated three yrs into our M (1995) because things were bad and during that seperation I found out my W cheated on me. We ended up getting back together and things were good for a while.

Then in 2003-2004 we seperated once again and it was the same thing she cheated on me with a co-worker and that affair ended but I ended up moving out of the house and into my parents. When that happened I ended up seeing another woman and it destroyed my W. We ended up getting back together again and now here we are in 2011 and it's going down the tubes again.

Back in Sept I realized that my W and I were really growing apart. She would do her thing and I would do mine. We didn't go to parties together or friends houses or movies etc. I bought it to her attention that I didn't want to become an old married couple who were just room mates. Sex at this point is non-exsistent.

These are the things that I have been told by my W. She has said that if we didn't have our first S we never would have married. She says she only has stayed married to me becase of her father who told her that since we were married in the Catholic Church that we shouldn't get divorced and that we have to work things out. She told me that before her mother passed away that her mother told her that I would never change. She has within the last few days told me that she feels like I'm trying to buy her love (I bought her some expensive gifts for her birthday.) She has also said that because I have changed I expect everyone else to change and as recent as last night she lashed out at my 14 S telling him that she doesn't want to be told what to do and that she can do what she wants when she wants.

So at this point I don't know what to do to try to salvage this mess if it can even be done. I have the DR book so I don't know if it's LRT time or what time it is. I know I've been depressed, crying at times, sick to my stomach etc. Please help me! Thank you

[Hopeful321]

Sorry you find yourself here.

Someone posted these for me and they were a big help. Keep posting here. Lots of great advice you will find.


Learn them well-- as they are a life saving guide at times...

good luck, keep posting and here they are:


(I recommend you copy and paste & print it out. Carry it in your pocket if you have to. I did.)

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.

21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).

27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.

30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.

33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

[ANS]

Hi leopoldstotch,

I took a quick scan of your other thread.

On the other thread you indicated a couple of your W's complaints.

Well sandi her complaints about me are that I have a "you only live once" attitude towards our finances meaning I would spend our money on things we didn't need instead of paying the bills but that stopped a while ago and I have recently taken charge of paying the bills. Another big complaint of hers is that when we do argue I always have to be right. It has been some time since we've had an argument since I've made the decision not to go back at my W when she is upset with something.

Other complaints if you can call them that are that we have nothing in common, we never liked eachother and we don't like eachother, we aren't the affectionate type. That's about all I can recall right now. Presently I would say our sitch is in limbo. I'm not telling her I love her. I'm acting as if nothing is wrong and I'm not talking about our M at all. Even though we are still under the same roof I am following the advice in the DR. Thx for the replies and please keep them coming.

What about the flip side of the coin?

As I'm sure you noticed, your W is skeptical about your 180’s regarding her complaints. That’s natural. She’s fully aware that you want to save your M, so she’ll apply ulterior motives to your 180’s, and assume that as soon as you get what you want, you’ll slide back into your old ways.

But consider this. Your W fell in love with you for who you are. Right now, she’s concentrating on the negative. Doing a 180 on your shortcomings is only half of the equation.

we have nothing in common, we never liked eachother and we don't like eachother...

You know that this statement is a load of krap. Obviously, she “liked” you 25 years ago. Obviously, you had something in common 25 years ago.

I think that if you put some thought to it, you could find a lot of 180’s you could do on the positive side of the equation to prove these statements wrong.

Think about it. But tread carefully. You don’t want to appear to be pushing your positive traits on her. That comes off as pursuing!

Try to find some of the old things that made you special and do them on your own. Maybe find some things you enjoyed doing together, and do them on your own. It just might tweak some memories in her, and who knows? At some point, she may even decide that she wants to join you.

Work on your 180's with Hopeful321's list of do's and don'ts in mind.

[leopoldstotch]

Thank you hopeful and ANS. ANS I guess at this point I have to figure out what I need to do show her or prove to her that I'm done being the way that I was. I have to pick myself up because lately I have really been feeling down because I have blamed myself for the sitch we are in.

I have been following some of the LRT such as not telling her that I love her. I now know that gifts are out since she herself told me she feels I'm trying to buy her love. Funny how when I tell her that I'm going out she asks where I'm going. If I tell her out she asks me why the secret and then I end up telling her where I am going. I must say the she does tell me where she is going and what she is doing.

You are right I need to go back to who I was in the begining of our R. I was a loving boyfriend to her show her appreciation etc.
I guess I'm treading a fine line here and my sitch may be different than some here. It seems as though I'm dealing with my W being very hurt about how I treated her and neglected her and took her for granted in the past. I have to show her that these changes are real and permanent.

Any ideas about how to be a better H for without pushing myself on her is appreciated.

[labug]

I have to figure out what I need to do show her or prove to her that I'm done being the way that I was.

If you are doing this to prove to her you've changed, you may fail. The key is looking at your behaviors, accepting that they are not healthy and then changing them so you become a better person in all your relationships. If you really change, she will notice over time but it won't happen overnight.

[leopoldstotch]

I have to figure out what I need to do show her or prove to her that I'm done being the way that I was.

If you are doing this to prove to her you've changed, you may fail. The key is looking at your behaviors, accepting that they are not healthy and then changing them so you become a better person in all your relationships. If you really change, she will notice over time but it won't happen overnight.

You're absolutely right. I'm working on myself to be a better person overall. If my M is to end and u don't make permanent changes in myself I know I would ask repeat this all over again. I also know there is no quick fix. Only time will tell. At this point I know I wont give up.

[ANS]

I was composing this when you posted your reply, so just to reinforce what you already said:

If you are doing this to prove to her you've changed, you may fail.

labug is absolutely right. If your motive is to get your W back, she'll sniff it out in an heartbeat, and dismiss your changes immediately.

I don't believe one can entirely remove rescuing our M as a motivation, but you really need to focus on self improvement.

When my eldest D graduated from med. school, she and I took a trip to Southeast Asia. There wasn't a day that went by when I didn't wish W was with us, but I put it out of my mind and throughly enjoyed an exotic trip with my D.

This was a big 180 for me. It was my biggest shot at GAL, and I'll always have fond memories of that trip.

Maybe one day, W and I will take a trip together, but I'm not holding my breath.

You need to have a life without your W, and maybe some day, she'll want back in. But you have to become the best leopoldstotch you can be for your own sake. And you have to be your own person. Also for your own sake.

That's genuine change (as labug noted).

[leopoldstotch]

ANS you are right I need to take care of myself first and make improvements for me. It stinks being in this sitch because I find myself shouldering all the blame. I guess its natural. I understand the importance of having my
own life. If she wants to be in it or not its her choice and I know I have to force myself to be happy even though it seems she wants no part of me. The strange part is we are still doing things as a couple like going to my cousins for New Years Eve and going to a friend of ours house for a party tonight. Well wish me luck and any words of encouragement are welcome lol I sure can use all the advice I can get on this journey.

[ANS]

Yeah. I hear ya on the blame part. I hope you're not kicking yourself over it. There's plenty of blame to go around, and you should pat youself on the back because you've decided to break away from the blame game and try to save your M.

Whether you blame your W or blame yourself, Blame is a dead alley.

Your W may not agree. Give this a read. I found it very enlightening:

For Spouses of Walkaways

Good luck, Leopoldstoch!

[CO1978]

That is a very good thread you have linked there ANS. It really brings to light the other side of things. Thank you for sharing, it should be manditory reading material for all LBS.