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A Message from Michele
Active Threads | Active Posts | Unanswered Today | Since Yesterday | This Week
For Newcomers
09/17/18 07:13 PM
13 442 Read More
Surviving the Big D
09/17/18 05:42 PM
Thank you ginger. I have done all of that. I was actually a co den leader last year but turn out was so small.

Part of it is that my son is a bit much. He is adhd and very socially immature. He is outgoing so he makes friends but has trouble keeping them. The kids that are similar to him end up in a love hate relationship with battles for control. Academically, my son doeas great. But he is the kid that the teachers have to make sure to separate from other kids each year. He cant participate in team sports which would have helped a lot. I have tried to have play dates over my parents house, and my parents end up wanting to kill me. It makes it hard. Last year i tried to meet up at parks. And that worked. But not on the basis my son craves.

Its hard being the only child when you are social and cant play by yourself. I wish i had a tribe like you do. I dont know why thats hard for me.
68 1,497 Read More
For Newcomers
09/17/18 04:31 PM
Stay the course. Keep DBing, stick to your guns on not going to the family event. MIL and SIL sound toxic.

Also, 180 on the lying. Next time you get intel, just tell your W you know, not how. No need to lie. If she keep pushing just tell her the subject is closed.
29 633 Read More
For Newcomers
09/17/18 02:46 PM
Hold your head high my man.

MLK said "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

I think I can relate to the tit for tat part, as we have the same thing going on in our house. REMEMBER, its temporary. This wont be like this forever. Continue to be you. Role model for your kids.
85 1,561 Read More
Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy
09/17/18 02:41 PM
Michele just posted this:

"I often get emails from people who have read my book, Healing from Infidelity that touch my heart. This one does for sure.

Hi Michele,

I just read your book, Healing from Infidelity.
My husband and I had been married 31 years when I found out that he had been involved in a 7 year affair. An anonymous person sent me photos from a private website my husband was on. Needless to say, I was devastated and confronted him immediately.

I thought our marriage was good, and often heard my husband tell friends that we were an anomaly for having such a remarkable marriage.

We have both read MANY books about Infidelity, but I wanted you to know that we both feel that your book was the most helpful and truthful book we read. I loved the way you talked to people, addressing what each person in the relationship needs to do to heal and help.

You really spoke to both of us and we both believe that we will continue to grow and be the best we can be in our remaining years together. My husband really appreciated that you didnít keep ďscoldingĒ the unfaithful spouse, as many other authors have done.

We have reconnected sexually, and I must say that is better than it had been for years!

Keep writing and encouraging people who have to deal with this immensely painful situation. You are inspiring, encouraging and honest, which definitely helped us through this painful journey.

Thank you so much, KP"
0 33 Read More
Midlife Crisis
09/17/18 11:56 AM
100 2,344 Read More
For Newcomers
09/17/18 03:22 AM
Thanks for your feedback ovrrnbw. I really want to work on our marriage and give us a second chance. But he tells me he doesnít want that right now. And, depending on the day, he says maybe in the future or never. He has oddly encouraged me to have fun and date other people, saying he doesnít care. But I realized that he doesnít care if itís just one date with someone. Itís only when he learned I had gone out with someone more than once that he got jealous. I actually tried to hide the fact I went out with someone more than once because I worried he would get upset and tell me it was really over.

You are right about the family dinners and ďcake.Ē In fact, we only have the dinners when he has the kids. Never when itís his kid-free time. I realize Iím just letting him walk all over me because Iím so desperate to fix our marriage. Yet, I donít know why. I was unhappy too, and he was not a good husband - beyond the lying and cheating. I feel like I only want him because Iím afraid to be alone, afraid for my future financially, sad that I only see my kids part time, and missing the comfort of a partner I knew (though what I knew wasnít so great).

I havenít contacted him since Friday, which is a record for me. I have to be honest, though, Iím sad he hasnít reached out. I know heís out of town so I wonder where and if heís with someone. I have been tempted to contact him because I worry heís relieved he hasnít heard from me and will really move on. However, Iím aware of the pursuer/distanced dynamic and know I need to stand my ground.
3 123 Read More
For Newcomers
09/17/18 03:06 AM
Update: I had a pretty good weekend. On Saturday i was out all day with S12. Had planned to go by myself and meet some colleagues, but was as good this way. GAL does not mean neglect the kids after all. You never know for how long they want to spent time with you. I also went running today and was very happy with my time. I plan on running a 10 k soon. All this running this year, at first out of frustration and now for fun made me quite fit. During the run I ran into H, who was out Ąrunningď too, but was walking and talking on the phone, when I passed him from behind. I have to say, since I kind of knew this, it did not hurt anymore. More the opposite, now he definitely knows, that I know, without me having to say anything. It also helped with my house task problems. On Friday I did all of mine and the kids laundry and for the first time intentionally left his part out, although it was more work to sort through everything. I meant on telling him Friday night he could use the washing machine all weekend long, since I was done, but I chickened out until this morning. After the run, dinner question came up, and since everyone but him had leftovers from yesterdayís takeout, I told him that( he should have known, since we ate together yesterday, but who knows where his thoughts are). So he was a little annerved, but I said, well if you order something, you will have something for tomorrow as well. H: so I should fix my own meals all the time now. That is stupid. So he suggested to get/ make dinner on some days for all and me on other days, but when pressed on schedule he just came up with One day. So we see how that works. I then also told him, that we now would take turns house cleaning or he could use the basement bathroom and clean that himself. Well he does not want the basement bathroom and will clean next weekend. I am glad this is finally out, although I am not proud about the way it came out. I wish I had talked to him on Friday night properly instead of the way it was now kind of between two doors with maybe the boys listening, but I think they were busy with their video games, and we were not fighting or anything. I feel quite detached today, just not so sure about the lovingly part in it. Is that possible at all, to lovingly detach. For me I feel detached on some days, more and more recently, but at the same time the loving part seems to deminish. Just writing this, makes me sad.
16 426 Read More
Surviving the Big D
09/17/18 12:53 AM
Originally Posted by job
I'm glad you and your property are okay. The forecasters are still saving more rain is coming and the people are not out of the woods yet. Stay safe down there!

This is my 13th or so hurricane, I am, to say the least, I am used to to preparation and "sounds" they make (especially the winds at night).. But I have to say that the flooding is completely different here.. Back home, flooding is localized based on where the rain falls, I used to deal with hurricanes at 5 feet above sea level, but everyone else was also, so I didn't have to worry about their rain becoming my problem.

But now that I'm inland and elevated, river basins are a whole new issue with hurricanes. I'm fine, I'm over 100' above the closest River, but that River is expected to rise 60 feet, there are many people who aren't so lucky. Back home in FL, the winds were the issue you had to deal with, but here it's a two pronged attack. I will be going back to real life tomorrow, back to work it is, but there are many people who will be struggling for awhile to get back to normal, pray for them, they didn't want or ask for this.
5 144 Read More
For Newcomers
09/16/18 06:27 PM
I have asked him to leave. He wonít. I spoke to his mother and he could stay there temporarily. I canít make him move out as we co- own the house. I have told him I will not do his washing. I have told him I am only willing to talk about practicalities of house, kids, finances. The only thing I can do is act like heís not here! I am not in a position to leave myself with 5 children. I have sought some free legal advice and it seems we could do a legal separation agreement although we are in the same house, but will cost money (that I havenít got).
34 1,597 Read More
Midlife Crisis
09/16/18 03:45 PM
Hello Fin831.

Welcome. There are many kind and compassionate people here with much hard earned wisdom. This is a safe place to ask questions, vent, or just journal your thoughts - posting real does help.

Originally Posted by Fin831
The time? or the actions?

Is it mostly the time that passes that takes an MLCer out of MLC?

or is their faulty actions that pushes them further along?

I sense that you already know that nothing you do will help her along her path, and that you need to focus on yourself and adult children. However until we get a certain level of understanding it is hard to look away, there are questions that seem to need answers. I understand.

Time or actions.

In my opinion the MLCer does not see their actions as faulty, they are doing what they believe to be right, their only choice left to them, what they are driven to do.

As time progresses, and with the space you give her, your W may calm down, may see moments of her life in a different light. Eventually may even question the path she is on, just as much as she questioned her life before which lead to BD.

So with time the MLCer actions can be revealed to themselves - maybe.

This takes time, no way around it. The faultiness of their actions, or the degree of wrongness does not matter, most have affairs, some do not, both are just as stuck in the mess that is MLC. Those faulty actions are just them running from their pain, they really mean very little.

So mostly time. When and if they awaken then their actions, and the degree of, will play a larger part.

A very interesting question. I hope to hear from you soon.

11 195 Read More
Midlife Crisis
09/16/18 01:03 PM

I think you are wise to tell the lady friends who are showing interest in you that you are still married and, if and when, you are divorced, you will then think about dating...but until then, you need to focus on you and your family.

As for inviting your wife on trips, you may want to tell your eldest children that this is a "bonding" trip for just you and the kids. Your children do not understand what is going on and most likely are wondering why "mom" isn't invited, but you are wise not to go into detail w/them about the situation.

If you aren't sure what to do about something, then do nothing for the time being. Sit quietly and the answers will come when you least expect them to.
27 672 Read More
For Newcomers
09/16/18 12:56 PM
101 711 Read More
For Newcomers
09/16/18 11:11 AM
Update. 1 week after starting to detach.

I have been feeling mostly pretty good. Sleeping well again. Appetite is back. I've been carrying myself in a pretty positive and confident manner just about 100% of the time. I have a new emotion since this the BD. I'm angry and I want to express it. My instinct tells me W needs to see me as a man that'll actively stand up for what he believes in. However, ldoing so, negates detachment.

S is really responding well to my connecting with him in an even deeper manner. He even came to me at 3AM when he couldn't sleep rather than to my W.

W has been off and on cheerful. She's been flirty a few times and has been reaching out to offer hugs. She has asked me 3 nights in a row to hang out after S goes to bed. When I say no, she is bisually disturbed.

My feelings have really changed this week as I've reflected on the past 6-7 weeks as well as the last 3 years. During this week, I've also really watched her and paid attention to her actions. Some things I've thought about and observed have me thinking and questioning if I even want to stay married to her. I wonder if my drive to hold this family together has more to do with S than it has to do with myself and W. I'm not making any sort of decision, but I have been questioning myself and daydreaming of how great life could be as a single dad.

Zero evidence of W speaking with OM. It's still hard to not think about. If I hit a low point, it always is because I'm thinking too much and wondering if We is still talking to him.

When W and I first started these conversations, we drew up some rules in order to keep S as safe as possible. One rule is Sundays can be status update talks after S goes to bed. W mentioned last night that she may have a few things to talk about. I'm not going to say a word other than things to ensure she knows I'm listening.

GAL outside the house is nearly impossible as my S has become my number 1 priority. The internal changes I'm making have allowed me to become more connected to him. I can GAL inside the house as best as possible and after he goes to bed. I have some weekend plans for after 9 next weekend. The internal changes have been very noticeable at work. I have folks writing little appreciation memos to me as well as notes to my boss. I'm focusing my efforts to continue that internal growth as well as moving on with my life and 180's. It seems though, that the more I image moving on, the less I feel like Id work on R. I'd say right now, I'm 50/50.

Prior to BD, we had discussed moving closer to her family and I was kind of excited about this possibilities as we've had zero family support and little contact since S was born. Early on in this sitch, W stated that we will probably end up not moving and I'd end up with an amazing life without her while she'd be a mess and OM would be a broken mess. The other day, she brought up the possibility of moving a couple or as single parents. That made me angry but I didn't let it show. I have an incredible job with a new leadership position and giving that up to move 3 hours away and farther from my parents so she can live closer to OM is not going to happen. If we move, it'll be after some time of successful R.

W has stated several times that if we D, she wants to remain close friends and co-parent 50/50 as much as possible. She keeps saying I will always be part of her life. I'm all for the best co-parent relationship possible as S is number 1. I don't understand how she can expect us to be such good friends. Does she think I'm just going to hang and talk about my life like her girl friend?

I don't know. How many times have people detached and then been the one that ending up leading the way to the D? I'm not there yet and I am prepared to wait it out for her to make whatever move comes next. I turn 40 next month and I keep thinking that I need to move on and start my new life. I'm not a person I like when I've lost trust for someone. There's no way I can be in a marriage when I lack any bit of trust.
12 225 Read More
For Newcomers
09/15/18 07:18 PM
Things are going quite good actually. I had a date couple of days ago. Both of us agreed not to have anything serious right now. So detaching and GALing.

XW has laid low for a couple of days now. She had D8 inform me about D8's doctor visit. We usually inform each other about these. Not anymore apparrently. And for some reason ex-MIL is asking me about childcare on XW's turn in a couple of weeks.

But I'm good and the kids seem to be doing just fine!
33 664 Read More
For Newcomers
09/14/18 11:06 PM
Start a new thread you are over 100 posts
107 2,269 Read More
Midlife Crisis
09/14/18 08:55 PM
Hi Sotto, great to hear from you. Great to hear your mum and dad calibrated 60 years together, thats a fantastic achievement for them. You sound strong and glad to hear you didnt settle with your man friend. Its all too easy to accept things that realistically you shouldn't. Thats not to say comprises shouldn't be made but we all have our boundaries and they are ours to decide.

Sorry to hear SS didnt get the results he wanted or expected but exams aren't the be all and end all of life.

Your spirtual journey sounds good, its always good to step back and take stock of what actually is as opposed to how we might perceive things. They are often very different and in a world filled with famine , war and disease, we who live in the first world sometimes moan and whine about first world problems when we should be grateful to the universe that our ' problems' pail into insignificance compared to third world inhabitants.

You mention looking for new things to fill your time , seriously , you are the queen of GAL, sword juggling , flame eating, nothing is beyond you.

Again , great to see you post. Your a shining light on here of how to deal with all that this site is about and Cadets list should include your journey. I know i say this alot but your strength and fortitude to deal with the ups and downs of life are a beacon to all who are lucky enough to read them.

Take care , Rd
57 6,203 Read More
For Newcomers
09/14/18 06:52 PM
She mentioned the marriage and maybe wanting you back to give you a little glimmer of hope, to keep you warm and ready in case she wants to come back.

Her telling you how she is hurting is to divert attention away from her misdeeds and get you feeling bad for her. It's manipulating. She's hurting you. Does she know this or not? and is she talking about that?

Her reaching out to you isn't a bad thing, but don't try to guess what it means. It could be her softening you up for the D papers. It could be she kinda wants you back. Nobody knows. So keep DB'ing.
16 471 Read More
For Newcomers
09/14/18 05:13 PM

Wow, reading your story is almost like reading mine! So many similarities, except you seem MUCH stronger, and right off the bat at that! Its amazing you filed and showed him you're not playing games. I have never been able to put my foot down like that.

A little background, we are the same age as you guys (im 31, H is 30), just had our first baby. He told me he loved me but wasnt in love with me when I was 5 months pregnant, Found out 3 months later that he was having an affair while away for work during the weeks, a bartender at a bar him and his coworkers went to all the time. When I found out he immediately quit his job and promised to focus on us and only us.
Since then We have been back and forth, working on us, not working on us, separating, trying to live together again, its been a rollercoaster to say the least. He would feel remorse, want to be around us more, and then pull away and say he was afraid nothing would change.

Everytime I would allow him to live with us again, my anxiety was through the roof. He was not in a place where he was willing to be completely transparent with me and rebuild my trust. He wanted me to be patient and trust him, and thats not really how it works after being cheated on. I tried though I really did, but nerves would take over and we would argue.

I was truly losing myself on this rollercoaster ride. I felt like I had no control on anything and my heart was being stomped on OVER and over. I started fully DBing about 3 weeks ago. With the advice from some amazing people on here I was able to tell my H either show me your phone and prove you are not speaking to OW or you cannot live here. He was not willing to show me and immediately had to leave the house. That was 2 weeks ago. Since then he has cycled through anger, sadness, remorse, telling me hes sorry how he handled everything etc. I have recently found out there is now a new OW, another bartender in our town, I called him out on it, he denies of course, but is now just absolutely livid with me, wants a divorce, etc.

What I am getting at here is he is all over the map. He sounds SO much like your H. He wants his cake and to eat it to, and the minute I take away his cake (ie: living in the home with the baby and I) he lashes out. He doesnt want to feel like it is his fault his marriage is falling apart. He rewrote history from the get go. Immediately he said "You dont appreciate me. You dont show me you need me." etc etc. At first I begged, promised to change. And I really worked hard to change everything about myself that he said he didnt like. And now we are in a place where Its been a year and I have REALLY changed all those things, and he notices and hes so upset. he says he cant believe it took him being half way out the door to make changes and now it hurts his feelings and he wishes he had handled everything different. (but clearly not enough or he would be trying to make us work)

I dont mean to hijack your thread! I just cant believe the similarities. Im sure you never expected that your H could do this. Im sure your world is turned upside down, youre spinning, you dont even know which way is up. I felt/feel COMPLETELY lost and I will say that this site has been my ONLY saving grace. I have a great support system, but its easy for your support system to be clouded with anger and emotion and to suggest wrong moves for you to make. I figured that out pretty quick so I started to keep more to myself. These people on here know what theyre doing. The things they tell you to do will sometimes feel impossible. Trust me, I am working everyday to try to be strong enough to fully DB. Its a work in progress. I suggest getting Divorce Remedy, its very action based and I am reading it now and find it SO helpful.

I am thinking of you so much! This is not easy, your husband is in a fog right now. He is confused. He wants to be with you, but then when he gets to be he starts to pull away. IDENTICAL to my H. They dont know what they want. They KNOW they should want their family and are afraid to lose it because part of them knows theyre going through something. I never thought it would be possible for this process to take this long. I thought for sure a few months would maybe pass and we would back on track. I was VERY wrong. I am trying to learn patience, as its one of the most important things in this. Unfortunately, my h is choosing to be extremely mad at me right now for not allowing him to live at home and for the changes ive made, and he is threatening Divorce again, and wants to discuss it next week. I am terrified of course because I do not want that and i want more time to DB, but I am trying to keep hope. You should have much hope, but stay strong! Remember who you are. Remember who he fell in love with. Know your power, know you will be ok without him and act as if you know that even if right now you feel you are crumbling.

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For Newcomers
09/14/18 05:08 PM

I find your update to be interesting and to hold a lot of truth. I'll try to write more later but I'm just curious since I can't recalls of your earlier posts. Have you ever tried to do 180's like offering your husband compliments, doing favors for him to make him feel special, or just doing things to engage with him differently than before? Not that that'd be wise if he's abusive and trying to stay in the marriage would be unhealthy but I just wonder how 180's have affected the situation or if you've tried them?
26 512 Read More
For Newcomers
09/14/18 11:31 AM
journaling .. actually more like venting today

My H dropped by yesterday morning when I was at work to pick up some clothes for D8 that she needed for school. I only know this because he called me up whilst he was at the house to tell me I had left a window open (urghh). I then came home last night to discover he had installed a camera outside our house. I had bought the camera months ago (before he moved out and he moved out 6 months ago) when our au pair crashed my car into the front wall. I had no proof at the time that she had done this, but as the rear bumper had a massive dent (apparently done outside D8s school) and the front wall was concaved inwards, we kind of figured she was lying. We couldn't prove it at the time, but I decided it was worth getting a camera for the front anyway. Well, as it happens we had to let the au pair go anyway and as things were a bit of a roller coaster between my H and I, the camera was put in a cupboard and forgotten about. Until it appeared on my front wall last night.

I am not sure if I should tell him that he a) shouldn't be dropping by whenever he feels like it and b) it is not his place to install cameras. Even worse, the camera link is to his phone and not mine. I do not know if this is him being extra vigilant (which it could be), him not liking an expensive gadget go to waste in a cupboard (again, very possible, he is extremely tight with money, or c) him wanting to keep an eye on me (again possible, as he has said he does not want me bringing "friends" around to the house).

I don't want to bring it up as we are getting on ok at the moment. Not two people in a relationship friendly, not even two people who are friends, friendly, but at least two people who don't look at each other with a mixture of contempt, sadness and fear. I think we have something that we can at least, for the time being, build a healthy co-parent relationship on and I don't want to rock that boat. So I am venting. I may just switch the camera off and not tell him ??

Also, his step dad is having a birthday party on Sunday. I am not invited as the venue only allows a max of 8 people, which covers H, D8, D12, MIL, FIL, SIL, BIL and my niece. Convenient for everyone, but leaves me a little left out. I do get on with his family, but it does seem that they are leaving me out of things now. I will have to wait for sunday when they all head over there and I am left on my own (again) to see how I really feel. Right now, it is disappointment that his family could let go so quickly. At least it's not anger.

Digressing a little ... one of the reasons he left was we had had au pairs for about 2 years prior to BD. No, it isn't the middle age / au pair affair that jumps into everyones mind. He said that when he was home he felt like he wasn't needed. The au pairs did everything for the girls and he had nothing left to do. He would be home during the day (he works shifts) and he felt like he couldn't be at home in his own home. This came out in marriage counselling, as in "and then YOU brought au pairs because YOU had wanted to work ". Why don't they tell us these things when its happening and not hold on to it until its too late. If he had said it I would have tried to change my work arrangements to be home more. After he left, I stopped having au pairs and I work from home more. This wasn't for him. For a period I couldn't make it into the office (I couldn't face people) and work offered my more flexibility.
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For Newcomers
09/14/18 09:19 AM

Everything is going well, just dropping a few lines to check in. W and I are getting along fantastic, been remodeling our new house, been busy with the kids back in school. W and I went out the other night and had a great time, been talking a lot, no fights or miscommunications. I am still reading DB and DR, still been working on 180s and GAL. Staying positive and hopeful of the future. Both Saying ILY, and a lot more physical contact. Things are definately getting better.....wondering if any vets have any other ideas of how to keep at it in terms of suggestions I have not mentioned that I am doing? Thanks in advance. Peace y'all, much love.
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For Newcomers
09/14/18 08:36 AM
She has gone totally cold now, and said this morning she wants a Divorce. I am still at my mums, and I am waiting for legal advice frown
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For Newcomers
09/13/18 09:45 PM

I responded saying i won't reply to her going forward unless its a geniune post divorce need.

She responded saying she was sorry to have invaded my private space. And going forward she won't bug me in future. Take care.
21 519 Read More
Midlife Crisis
09/13/18 09:36 PM
I agree w/Cadet. DB is not just about saving the marriage, it is about saving ourselves. Are there things about yourself that you would like to change? If so, make the changes for YOU and YOU only. The changes have to become permanent and not just to get her back. Going dark is for YOU. This allows you the time to distance yourself from her drama. Going dark isn't going to make her change.

When your w sees that you are going about your business, focusing on things that you need to do, having fun w/o her, it just might make her curious about YOU and just maybe, she'll begin to show a bit of interest in what you are doing. If she shows interest, continue as you have been and do not change up. Stay that course.

Edit - Oh and start a new thread you are at 100 posts. - Cadet
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