I am very interested to hear more about this Mort course. I get very mixed messages from my wife on needing space. She wants me to continue to be her partner, i.e. cook dinner and do the dished WITH her, other chores TOGETHER, and put the kids to bed. When she says that she wants space, she seems to suggest no romantic pursuit or manufacturing family events like outings and vacations.
She says that she is not mad at me and isn't resentful. She just doesn't have romantic feelings. Man I don't want to lose her!
That's the friendzone. Just go do your thing and give her space. Nothing wrong with maintaining the home but don't plan out doing chores together.
Destroyd, you have to get up and jump around, make yourself happy!!!!!! Do not sulk!
Thanks Andrew! I am gonna regret this.. Ex-h changed the plan again. Third time in 3 days and i have NO SAY. Eventho he will be driving through here tonight on his way to see D23, he wants me to drive D16 to his place. Last night, he was gonna have her pack her stuff for the week-end and pick her up on his way. Remember he took the week off next week right? Well Monday, she has a dentist appointm. to remove her braces in ex-h' s town.. HE CAN' T TAKE HER!! He knows i have booked my doctor' s appoint. since he was off and suppose to take her. Arrrggggg...
General Update, Had kids golf practice last night (which is usually where we have dinner and she spends the night). My goal was to be available and friendly like normal but also try to avoid dinner, drinks and staying the night. I did. She showed up to pick up the kids (I had purposely already ate) she had one glass of wine we chatted a bit about her day etc.
Then she brought up the kids event that is today. It's Jr golf Kick-off so they have a big carnival event for the kids. She said: W: "What about the carnival tomorrow you haven't said anything?" M: "It's your weekend with the kids I figured if you wanted to go or wanted me to go you would say something" W: "oh" M: "Are you asking me to go?" W" Well do you already have plans?" M: "no, I can be available if you want to take them together" W: "Okay sounds good, so then can we just plan on me spending the night tomorrow?" M: "Sure that sounds good, but FYI I do have stuff to do on Saturday" - In other words please get up and get going in the morning I'm not able to do all of Saturday as well.
So she didn't spend the night last night but she is definitely pushing for more of that. Or at least wanting to keep to at least once a week.
I believe she is feeling the rope drop. I'm not 100% there yet but I am getting much closer. I've been able to internalize that reconciliation will take a VERY long time and we are headed in the right direction, but I'm also very aware that just because we start reconciliation it doesn't actually mean we will survive it and end up back together. I'm dead set on a new, better, deeper relationship and although I do believe I will have a chance to find out if she can get there - I'm not as convinced she actually will. As she begins to come back I'm worried that she's only looking for what she knows is 'comfortable' and not realizing we need a new equilibrium. Because of this I have been able to continue to detach while also starting to win her back. She is feeling this and I hope that this feeling and the IC actually gets us to the next milestone but I'm doing my best to not rush and/or pressure.
It will take some time to get over that "strange/numb" feeling. After all, your emotions were on "very high" alert for quite some time and now that it is over a done with...your body needs to readjust and calm itself down.
I think it's great that her parents have reached out to you. They probably do not understand everything that went down, but they are very much aware that their daughter went a bit over the top emotionally and has done quite a few things that were not normal for her. I would enjoy my time w/the parents, but try not to share too much of what went down between the two of you.
As for her apologizing, well, she may or may not do so. They tend to apologize in a half @ss way and sometimes it does not sound sincere. You will not get the closure that you are looking for from her, but you will find closure in your own time as you forgive her along the way. When the money runs out, she'll be back trying to play the victim and poor me card to get more from you and do not be surprised if she uses the kids as the main reason for needing additional fund.
I hope that you and the kids enjoy your short trip. All of you need this time to unwind and just relax.
I might just do that next time . Well, he says he has no problem with me opening his personal mail because "he does not have any secrets for me". Whoa. First of all, he does have a BUNCH of secrets for the OW, so that's saying something, but at this time it does not concern me. Second, that USED to be true. He has no secrets for me, and yet he refuses to tell me why he wants to meet during daytime. Hm. I might just bring that one up.
Anyway ... I replied (kind, but firm) that I appreciate the trust he has in me, but that at this time his personal mail is not my business, that he can come and pick it up whenever I am home (no trespassing!) and if he wants to meet, surely we can find a suitable evening (or perhaps, weekend).
That was 3 days ago. Up till now, complete silence again.
harvey, I would highly suggest folliowing AS' sound advice. Also, this will be a clear message to her that D has consequences.....and those consequences is that you have to share your kids in this manner. Most WASs don't think about these things because they are uber selfish......and then when these consequences arise, like in this case, they want their cake and eat it too.
Be flexible. But also be firm and resolute so that you don't miss out on things you find important with your kids.
Last night was amazing and heartbreaking. My wife and I have been the biggest Toronto Raptor fans, we have watched every game for the past 5 years. It is one of the biggest things we share and enjoy. Even going through the past 4 months of MLC hell, we still watch and enjoy the games together. I really felt like things were improving with her, but I got my expectations too high. Our team won the entire championship, we watched it with our kids. We always get super excited over big wins. I wish I didn't, but I went in for a celebratory hug. She accepted it with half a hug, no embrace. It was crushing because 5 months ago we would have celebrated, hugged, intimacy etc. I was so crushed. Anybody in the right frame of mind would have seen how crushed I was, think the kids did. My wife didn't, but I tried really hard to hide it. It certainly showed me that very little has changed in her closeness, relationship with me. This is all so unfair.
This rollercoaster [censored], this morning she was clueless about me being crushed which is probably a good thing. She is acting like everything is fine. She is wanting to buy championship Tshirts and keeps texting me for what I want for her to buy.
I am crushed because I should be so ecstatic over our team winning, we should have celebrated together as a couple. I want this to be over so badly but last night showed me it's far from over. It's amazing how she only see's us as roommates raising kids.
I am also getting nervous for the near future. We will both be off for the summer, home together - all day every day. Our 17 anniversary is coming up in 2 weeks and we are going to my parents 50th wedding anniversary in August. These are going to be the most emotionally difficult things to endure.
I sometimes wonder if the spouses who behave so utterly outrageously are easier to move on from? Maybe not, because that humiliation sounds hard to take, but I can imagine that it really helps detachment! Whereas a spouse who is just common or garden confused and confusing and occasionally horrible might give you more false hope and hanging out for possible change. In any case, I wish you luck with your GAL and your H's MLC is no longer your problem (the OW sounds pretty messed up too, what a pair!)
I haven't read your whole sitch, just the last 3 pages. You should be implementing the LRT, so that's my advice whether or not you get papers.
She's trying to beat it into your head that it's over. You need to accept that and act accordingly.
Don't ask her for help. Leave her alone, focus on your own healing IMO. You have to drop your guard and quit fighting with her. Hopefully with time, work, and getting a life you will drop the stuff between you two that is causing so much pain.
She may change her mind but you should prepare for the worst.
Gekko, if you can look back in 10-15-20 years without regret, and honestly tell yourself that 8 months was long enough, then I say go for it. However, if you don't think you'll be able to do that, regrets last a lifetime.
Thanks Steve. Right after BD I told W she was free to move to the guest suite or right on out the door to get "space". I wasn't going anywhere and I didn't. But the legal process is moving ahead and decisions on the house have to be made. At some point I look weak if I'm not decisive. For many months I gave W the "I'm evaluating my options" line, but that ship has sailed. I eventually told W I will not buy her out, so W and her dad are going to buy me out and we've been talking numbers, or a possible sale of the house if we can't agree. W has been pressing for awhile. She wants out and if I go silent on the house issue I am standing in her way, appearing to be intentionally roadblocking D, and looking weak IMHO.
Based on my sitch I have little doubt the right move now is to get out of the house and either cut a deal on a buyout or list the house. IHS with someone who is pressing the D process......is not fun. I'm not helping her, but I can't endlessly block her either. Trust me I wish I had the cash to buy the house, then she could hit the bricks, but that's not my sitch.
I have a great IC and have a lot of tools on how to deal with W better than in the past. I have no plans to stop DBing. But W is going to have to get into therapy and make some significant changes if I am ever going to consider a R with her. I can't control that and therefore spend little time wondering or hoping about it. I am focused on myself and learning how to be a better man. A lifelong process.
As for regrets, who can predict? Do I have regrets as to how I responded to W's harshness, attacks and insults? In general terms, standing up for myself and calling her out on her BS? No regrets there. But some regret on the defensiveness, counterattacks and stonewalling. Plenty of room for improvement there. Regrets regarding the D? No. W is pulling the plug. I told her I wanted to work it out, get into therapy, and she said no chance. While I played a role in the underlying issues, and accept such, progressing to D is her deal. So it's doubtful I will ever regret moving into another place at this stage instead of hanging on IHS for however long the legal process would allow me.
I do have hopes, but they seem to be moot at this point. She’s taking every step imaginable to not have contact with me when she moves out.
She’s preparing boxes to move out as we speak.
So sorry to hear that. I get you weren't perfect (::looks around the room for perfect people::), but it's too bad there's no app to tell us, "RED ALERT: Your partner will leave in 1 month unless you take action." I hope the changes you've made make you happier, and help you in relationships to come with your ex or others.
PS - That app would make a TON of money!
Thank you! It’s been tough but I’m doing better.
Organized the garage and done odds and ends things around the house yesterday. It’s a good feeling being more organized.
On my way to work this morning, I passed a church whose sign out front read "When it is worth it, it won't be easy." Wow.................
So, when I got to work, I was busy cleaning up some stuff from yesterday's lab and planning my day out for today and tomorrow because I have some "housekeeping" type things I want to get finished in the coming weeks. Those types of "chores" are mindless tasks so they give me a lot of thinking time and as I was washing beakers and test tubes this morning, I was thinking about that church sign. I have heard, read, seen other very similar versions of that saying many times. Sometimes it is related specifically to men or women (more often I have seen it aimed at women) and sometimes it is geared more generically toward life. But, what I was really thinking about is how very true that statement really is. The good Lord has granted me 49 amazingly blessed years on this giant spinning rock so far and with any luck, I'll have at least 49 more to see how this world changes and life moves forward. I've been given family and friends who absolutely couldn't be more supportive if they tried. I have had fantastic opportunities and steep learning curves, but through it all, I continue to strive and move forward in my life and be the best person I can be. As the sign so obviously pointed out, though, all of the good in my life has not been completely unchecked by some bad. It happens. LIFE happens. Sh!t happens. I have made mistakes, squandered opportunities, made bad choices in love and in life and at 44 years old, got divorced and had to basically start all over. Life is not always sunshine and roses. I have loved and lost and I have lost loved ones. There are so many clichés that fit here, but the one that is resounding loudly in my head right now is "the more things change, the more they stay the same".
I marvel at those who say that if they could go back in time, knowing what they know now, they would and they'd make better choices. I wouldn't go back. Every choice I made, good or bad, has made me who I am right now. For the most part, I am proud of this person. Sure, there are days when I beat myself up and have super negative thoughts, but fortunately, those days are few and far between and I can usually stop myself and get it all headed back in a good direction.
The flip side of all of that I just said is that I have mentioned here many times that my relationship with Sparky has been, from the very beginning, very easy. When we first met, it was like we'd known each other forever and we fell into a very easy pattern of having fun while still being able to be open and honest and raw and vulnerable with each other. When I think about how easy it seems to have been, I realize that there have been some things that HAVEN'T been quite so easy. We don't fight and we honestly rarely disagree, but we have had to talk a few things through and weather a couple of things that I haven't really talked about here, because they are issues that are very personal to Sparky and I just don't care to air all his dirty laundry. That is his to do, not mine. My point is that, in a loving relationship, things can be tough, even when they appear easy from the outside. There are always going to be 2 personalities in a relationship, 2 sets of mood swings to deal with, money issues, health issues, job stress, and if you have kids, well, then there is a whole other level of issues (not that kids in and of themselves are issues because they are true blessings, but let's face it, we all know that raising kids is not always a walk on the beach on a warm, sunny day). Relationships take work. They require communication and compromise. Sometimes, they even require a little conflict, but there again, communication circles back and factors in, as does compromise.
My relationship is totally worth it but it is NOT always easy, even if it appears so from the outside looking in. Sparky and I are very similar people in many ways. Politically and religiously, we are totally on the same page. We have some shared interests and hobbies, but we also have some very different ones. He's an artist. He paints and draws. I'm definitely a scientist and very analytical. We totally personify the whole left brain vs. right brain thing. We have very different life experiences that have brought us to where we are. We sometimes see things differently, based on those experiences. One thing we seem to have a great ability to do, though, is to communicate openly and effectively. I appreciate that, but it can be difficult sometimes. I think I have finally found someone, though, who truly is a great communicator instead of just saying they are. You all know what I mean. It is my experience that when someone tells you they enjoy a specific action, they are usually rather good at it. When they tell you they are good at it, they usually aren't. What's that old saying? "Pride goeth before the fall..........."
Women leaving betas looking for alphas.... get your balls back.
Originally Posted by LH19
Women are hard wired to look for strength and protection
Seducing a woman is not hard. Changing our own belief systems and behaviors is the hard part. Do this one behavior at a time. Pick your most beta trait, and stop doing it. Pick a alpha trait and start doing it.
GAL alone. Go to dinner alone. Be in the moment. Go to night clubs alone. Be in the moment. Watch the alpha guys. watch the alpha ladies.
I’ve got news for you, this has been going on for thousands and thousands of years. Women leaving betas looking for alphas. Google “hypergamy”.
That’s why leaving the house at the first sign of trouble was a bad move. Women are hard wired to look for strength and protection. First sign of trouble you fled from the home. Now she thinks you can’t protect her.
Not just attacking you I did it too. Learned and moved back in. Refused to give up the house in D. Best move I ever made. My posts are always my opinion on what I know now so other people don’t make the same mistakes.
AS - I have never thought of myself as an extrovert although next to Jack, I am one step away from being a stand-up comic...lol. I think I am extroverted when I am comfortable and when I’m not, I’m pretty good at faking it. I used to be a newspaper reporter so I’m good at “interviewing” people and I am curious about them. Jack has been a bit of a challenge for me in that regard. I am 99.9% sure he isn’t hiding anything major from me (like a double life) but it is hard to get information out of him. Honestly, I think I just make him think about things he doesn’t really think too much about. He once texted me that he was outside “chilling” and enjoying the weather. I texted him, “contemplating life?” and he replied, “well...not contemplating too hard.” I think that was actually quite accurate...lol. He seems to just live his life in the present and doesn’t spend too much time reliving the past or predicting the future. Lots of people say that but I think he really means it...lol. I think if I am going to get access to his inner world, it is going to be very gradually. At least that has been my experience so far. Maybe I should just try to get him drunk...lmao. That might be funny.
My spring league play offs start tonight. Ugh...it is 30 degrees outside and pretty sure the pool hall does not have air conditioning. I wish I could just skip it but if me and my buddy don’t show up, our team has no hope of winning. He’s already texted me to make sure I am going so I’m committed...lol. Speaking of...gotta get ready. Sending lots of (((HUGS))) to all you DBers out there!!!
As for now, I agree with the positions of both Steve and Neffer.
I think it is funny that she was moving out 5/18, here we are 6/19. That speaks volumes right there!
This also came up in the conversation. I shared how I had been waiting and wondering for a year and a half since she announced that discarded plan. She seemed perplexed.
Maika, All interpretations are selective. Given the bigger picture of Ws action and the ability and willingness to have this conversation, I view the transaction as a positive step. I'm not willing to accept it as overly optimistic, delusional dissonance. Knowing this person, in the past, it would have turned into a small battle when her feelings felt challenged. This was not the case. LH19, I don't disagree that distance and time would most likely expedite the process. At some point it may come to this.
Either way, it doesn't matter. I have committed to a plan and it was never contingent upon this conversation.
Thanks for reading the posts Flysolo and offering your female perspective.
I agree on all your points of what contributes to the unhappiness of our spouse. Trust me I spent a lot of time pointing light on all aspects of me and what I could have fixed. IC sessions, books, this forum, talks with friends etc. At some point though it didnt add up to her decision.
How unhappy was she? We'll never know. But aren't we all at some point.
As to the moment with my boy, I do not mean to diminish his mother (which she is doing a good job, when not being weird) but the details do count. They do to me.
He will have his mother forever, but after this summer I am leaving the country. The fact that she was there and he came to me said, that mom is not enough, I need some of you too.