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A Message from Michele
Active Threads | Active Posts | Unanswered Today | Since Yesterday | This Week
For Newcomers
6 minutes ago
Hello DV

Better not bitter. I would love to take credit for that, however peacetoday started those words ringing in my head for me. I am happy to pass them forward to you.

I love reading your raw passion and emotion. It is very good to get it out, and you have much to be angry about, with that - what was he - King Douche of Douchebag World. Lol.

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
Arghhh... more odds and ends financial issues emails from my H. Honestly, every time I see his name, I feel physically ill and now I am close to tears. I am so done with this feeling. What is wrong with me? I was doing pretty well but now I feel like I am falling backwards fast. I just don't understand how he can do this to me and our kids. I don't think I will ever understand it. And I know... it's like a broken record... I just keep going over it in my head. And I am feeling so lonely right now. He was my BEST friend for the longest time.. at least I thought he was. I just really, really miss the guy I used to know. Am I just going through the final feelings of grief or am I starting this process all over again? Feeling very disappointed in myself.

You are addicted to H.

This is withdrawl.

It is strong, powerful, and painful. This addiction has been compared to herion, just has pervasive and as hard to break.

Every trip down memory lane, Facebook post, picture, snooping, text, etc... all add to the time of this withdrawl, and prolongs your suffering. It takes a concentrated effort to break this, to create new habits, to let go.

Iíve been here, and it is not fun. My mind screamed for the chemical release that my Wís love once provided. It is difficult, really difficult, to resist those urges to get a fix, another hit. It took some months of not looking at pictures, minimal contact, and so on, to get over this hurdle. There is relief, and freedom from this addiction.

This is just another part of the path. It is ok to trip and stumble, there are lots of people who will help you back up.

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For Newcomers
40 minutes ago
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw

don't tell her, just act. It's your home too.

Screaming loudly is quite the juvenile move.

Originally Posted by bubbs16
She then said i dont know when else to do this but ITS OVER WE ARE DONE

Did you say something before this that she was responding to?
No i was just telling her about the job i lined up back in colorado in the mountains .

Also, I'm in suburban STL. I hope you find the state to your liking.
15 121 Read More
Midlife Crisis
46 minutes ago
Hello Gerda

It looks like we posted this morning at the same time. I never even seen your post until tonight, along with the one with Hís letter.

Goodness gracious that man can string together the obscure parts of the English lexicon. (Thatís the best I could do right now smile ). Seriously, I am pretty skilled at active listening and/or reading; half way through his letter Iím looking for a fast forward button and have shut off my mind to protect it from the numbing barrage of verbosity. (Oh, that was better).

I read what he wrote, three times actually, all I have is a unilateral-preemptive (Type-A) headache! Man oh man what a jabber box.

Gerda the sooner you get out from under this yoke, the better. This man has some big time issues and you are the women in his cross hairs. The most compassionate thing to do for him would be to allow him the chance to heal. It is also the best thing for you and your kids. Give him all the space and time he is demanding. He feels he needs to get away from you. Let him.

I know that hurts, I truly do. That is the single most compassionate loving thing you can do for him. Nothing you can do is going to fix him or wake him up - only himself. Let him be. You, look after Gerda and her children.

Originally Posted by Gerda
I haven't spoken to my dad yet, but my only option would be if he is willing to dig into the money i would inherit one day, a very uncomfortable conversation. He is 91 so it's not totally absurd but it's awkward and he does not like to part with money.

This is not an uncommon arrangement. It is only an uncomfortable conversation, until you have it. In my case I did get an advance on my inheritance to help out. Parents, no matter their age still would like to help their children. I have an agreement that I can repay them back over time, if I wished to, or am able to. Otherwise it just comes off when the estate is shared between my and my sister.

You should explore this avenue before seeking alternative sources (other loans) of income.

Originally Posted by Gerda
And this is all assuming he will take money in order to end this quickly and will give up on the kids.

Big assumption, however not beyound the scope of a real possibility. Just look at what my W did. Keep negotiating and see how eager he is to end things. He may want his money rather quickly and will settle in your favour for a speedy end or a little more cash.

Originally Posted by Gerda
But maybe that's what you mean,DnJ. How far am I willing to go?

This is a difficult question. To quantify oneís willingness. There are so many factors.

Custody is, from what Iíve read, you biggest concern and fear. You and H had kids. Each of you has rights to your children, hence the 50/50 scenario I spoke about. From what you have said H is already weaponizing the children, so it looks pretty obvious this is a big point to him, whether it is also a bargaining point remains to be seen.

From this point on only use your L for negotiating, unless she says otherwise. I am figuring you would like more than 50/50 and there is a lot that can be offered, however H still has to want it. And with that in mind if an idea comes from you, his first instinct will be to reject it. Let the ďideasĒ come from the lawyers (in his view). The best is if he thinks he came up with the idea. I hope you understand what I am getting at.

The other part of how far are you willing to go - is reasonableness. I really hope H gives in and you get custody, but if he digs in, is it reasonable for you to go to trial. How far will you go, and is it reasonable? These are things you need to discuss with L, and keep an open mind too. You can see how things get cloudy very quickly, that is why it is best if things can get settled in an agreement between the two of you.

Originally Posted by Gerda
It's funny how you said, "now you know how far H is willing to go." Because I still don't. I still keep thinking that something will wake him up. And for me the hardest part is that he thinks what he is doing is righteous and in God's will, and that every move I make shows what a controlling horrible person I am. He has convinced others of this to the point that they are paying for his D lawyer. There is something about that that destroys my confidence. I can't figure it out but somehow in the face of his perversion of reality, I can't feel confident in what I know to be true about this. I can't even figure out how to phrase it to him -- e.g., "H, what you are choosing is... I have to choose...." I don't even know how to fill that sentence in.

And underneath it all, to keep feeling that I am standing for this marriage. I don't understand how I am supposed to play this horrible game and still feel in my heart that I am standing, they are two opposites. I need to reread all the old posts you and Gordie and Job have written on this topic to me. But maybe now it's a little different.

Originally Posted by Gerda said, "now you know how far H is willing to go." Because I still don't.

Gerda, you are in denial. (((Hugs)))

You know what he is willing to do. He is ripping apart your marriage and family. I know you would work to fix whatever the problems are between you. Thatís the thing. The problems are not between you, and not yourís to fix. Read exactly what you wrote, in his mind he is fully justified in his position - righteous and in Godís will.

You know. Make your way out of denial.

As for standing and understanding how to play this horrible game. It does seem opposite, at first. I am hoping by now some of what I wrote is allowing you to see a bit clearer. I really mean it, this is the most compassionate and loving thing you can do for him and yourself.

His journey is all about him. You canít help him.

Your journey is all about you. You can help you.

Standing is not based on any of this horrible game, on this ugly and necessary step in his path. Standing is for you. Stepping down is for you. Neither is for H. I know that doesnít make a lot of sense at this moment, be patient it will. Right now you have to focus on you and kids, and get through this part. You can think about how this affects standing after, for now your standing and doing what you need to do.

Gerda, I am glad to offer what help I can. Let us know what offers he makes (if you would like too). There are a lot of caring people here with good viewpoints that can give some really good advice.

Take an Advil, ignore evil H, and get a good night sleep.

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For Newcomers
49 minutes ago
Read the validation links. Memorize a few validating phrases. Your W is saying a lot of things that you should be validating. It will make a huge difference in your sitch.

She is doing MC, and still involved in EA or more at this point. It's always a "friend" or "guy from work".

I'd not be her little buddy if she is fooling around with this guy.
12 117 Read More
For Newcomers
53 minutes ago
No problem. I'll go back and read your last thread.
32 333 Read More
For Newcomers
57 minutes ago
So sorry MamaB. This is an awful time, I know. I donít think he is trying to ruin your life. In fact, I donít think he is thinking about you at all...just himself which it appears is typical. Do you get to see the agreement before you present it at court. I would not do the agreement without letting a different lawyer look it over first. It could be that he is being honest about why the lawyer is involved but just in case, you should definitely have someone review it. (((HUGS)))
86 1,780 Read More
Midlife Crisis
1 hour ago
Hi there,
So just journaling...

I know not to read into anything, but this one has me scratching my head a bit. I just have to laugh. Itís so weird.

I get a text today from ex asking if I can bring him an old beanie hat. He asked for this beanie a couple years ago.. it was one we got on vacation a long time ago. Anyway, at the time, I told him I had no idea where it was. I was booted out of my house after all and had no idea where my belongings where.

And today, he texted asking me to bring it to him next time I pick up the dog. And reminded me that he asked for it years ago.

So... 1) this beanie is like 6 years old now 2) he (self proclaims) that he has no sentimentality 3) he hates me so much, why reach out? The beanie is worth breaking no contact with me?

Itís just bizarre. Truth is, I donít know where this beanie is and Iím like... uhhhh... huh??? I kind of want to send him a link to amazon showing him alternatives for replacement.

So weird!
70 2,460 Read More
For Newcomers
2 hours ago
I saw it was 10 years ago...still applicable and your story is still an inspiration to many on this board, me included. I find that reading them backwards helps me see the cause of things that happened in the future much more clearly.

I saved the book list and will pick a few and get started. Thanks!

I will need to work on boundary setting with W, validation, and doing what is best for the kids. Can't let her keep driving this wedge between us. I have always had issue with telling people no, but not nearly to the degree I do with W. I ALWAYS yield to her. I am starting to recognize this which is the first step I suppose. Telling her I won't be moving into the rental home and that she wont be seeing my paycheck anymore is a start. Even if I have to do it via L because she will cry to the police that I am in violation of my restraining order by contacting her directly. It is still doing what I want to vice what she wants me to. Small steps.
96 1,423 Read More
For Newcomers
2 hours ago
Originally Posted by Bo562

I had the realization: I wonder if W is calling me Ďfakeí and all that because Iím not reacting the way she expects.

That Iím establishing new behavior patterns and uprooting a lot of the old habits that I used to have (that she keeps referring to and beating me up about).

Maybe she is calling me a fake because she is looking for the old Bo, and canít see something new through the WAS fog.

Very possible!! I've told this story before but right before my W returned to the being committed to the marriage, we took a trip to a church marriage retreat. It was on that retreat that she rebelled against the marriage for the last time. But on the way home we were really enjoying each other's company. We had pulled into a drive thru to get food. She was saying something silly. I laughed, repeated it the way she said it (in a, wow that's funny way), and laughed again. She turned, looked at me, and said "who are you?" Previous to BD her silliness would have annoyed me, and I would have impatiently reacted in a negative way.

So it's possible her fake claim is her way of not believing your changes. It takes a long time to trust that someone has changed. Anyone can change for a short time to attain an outcome we desire. It takes time and consistency to prove true change.
28 183 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:31 PM
Jim - I like the first response IMO. Wow, that is terribly upsetting. I am very sorry to hear or something along those lines.
68 2,049 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:03 PM
Please start a new thread and link the two threads together. Thanks!
101 2,043 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 09:53 PM
Thanks Steve. I'll get out of the house instead of holding up in my room.
24 367 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 09:26 PM
Originally Posted by Gekko
My gut is telling me to go a bit further with my efforts and to be prepared to take the pain of finding something.

If you decide to follow your gut, do some reading before making your final decision. Start with this poster PuppyDogTails Click on "show posts" and WAIT. It takes a very along time for the page to load for some reason.

Here is one of his posts:

59 883 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 09:23 PM
Here we are 4 months since BD. I am very surprised at how well things are going for me personally and I owe every single person on here a huge thank you for that. Reading through everyone's stories and the advice I received on my own sitch has really pulled me through the darkest time of my life remarkably fast. I continue to improve myself, especially in the area of NGS, working out etc. GAL I think was the single most important part of the process. I have made a ton of new friends and now enjoy a schedule full of fun activities throughout the week. GAL has also brought about a new appreciation for the city I live in and all that it has to offer. From restaurants and bars, to events and activities I can't believe I was missing out on this stuff for so long.

As far as my sitch goes:
W continues to plug away like life will go on as usual (with the exception of a relationship) with no plan in place and no desire to actually put in the effort to sort things out. Every day that passes and the more people I meet the closer I get to wanting D myself. I still have a ways to go with that and whatever way it goes I will be fine. Separation and pressing forward with dividing assets, especially the house, I am trying to push forward with though. At this point I really just want my own space to call home that I can decorate to my liking and do whatever I please in without having to worry about someone else. My alone time with a glass of wine, dim lights and music on has become one of my favorite times. The in house separation is also causing a lot of confusion for the kids and I feel is only prolonging the inevitable for them. My thoughts are at least if we were physically separated the kids could beging to adjust to the new normal of two houses. Meeting tomorrow with the bank to discuss a mortgage and then with the lawyers Friday to see what my options are for getting things moving forwards. A year and a half of being ignored and slowly watching the person I loved so much pull away from me plus 4 months since BD I am ready to move on with my life with or without her.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 09:20 PM
Thanks Blu.

I have been very much down on our relationship since last night. I got upset that she answered a question from the OM via text. THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH HER RESPONSE. He asked a question about a document he needed for his child. She was factual in her response, and immediately sent me a screen shot of the conversation.

I over reacted because my mind spiralled, and it caught her at a bad time when she did not feel like being patient. I spent the evening doing damage control. It is so frustrating not being able to trust her, but I also appreciate her honesty about the situation. She is trying to gain my trust and I can see that.

Blu, was there any one thing or event that let you know your XH was trustworthy? We are too early into this for me to trust completely but I also don't want to continue pushing my XW away with my lack of trust. I know I have to act As-If in this situation until I can trust instinctively rather than reactively.

We have been good, for the most part. We had an awesome weekend. I hate that it was overshadowed by my lack of trust yesterday.

My IC told me I have to trust her until she gives me a reason NOT to trust her again. I'm finding it hard to put that advice into practice.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 09:18 PM
blackmac, not a surprise. And you are right to be wary. And you should continue to DB (as ST said) and you should continue moving forward with the D. She manipulated you once before, don't let it happen again.

If she is serious then she will be open to R even after the D. If it is just another attempt to get you to hold off until she can get her stuff together to try to get a better "deal" out of the D, then you will know when after the D she stops talking R.

You are in a good place sir! It has been a long journey, I remember when you were here freaking out, now you are a man in charge! YOU ARE A BOSS!
86 1,676 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 08:10 PM
You're absolutely right.. I kinda started that at the climbing gym last year, but with me being injured and unable to go back yet, those friendships kinda died out. They were just beginning and so I need to put myself out there more when I get back. Hopefully next month smile

I know there are probably tons of guys who are going through these issues but don't talk about it. Once you open up, I am sure the stories start filtering. Thanks for the reminder to open up and I know that will create opportunities for friendships. Men do need other men to talk stuff with.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 07:47 PM
Overall, I am not feeling too well these days. I am falling into mild depression again. I have a hard time getting out of bed, I have zero motivation about work.

Please take these signs of depression seriously. See your doctor and explain the symptoms. You may need to take anti-depressants for awhile. There is no shame in taking AD's. If you've never suffered from depression, it may not be like you imagined. Losing interest and/or motivation, feeling weak......and not wanting to get out of bed is a big flag. Changes with sleep, appetite, etc. are other signs. Some people may feel sad and cry easily, but some don't.

I also recommend seeing a therapist about all these unresolved issues and the emotions you have.

I realize that I still have a lot of work to do on myself. This NGS stuff combined with a lot of the other readings are making me question everything I know about relationships, core values, behavior, etc. It's very tough!

And it's confusing... I don't know anymore what love, kindness and generosity mean. How about selfishness?! It's all blurry for me right now.

What is the basis of your beliefs, core values, etc.? Were you raised to have strict moral standards? Do you follow some religious teachings? Something was the foundation that directed your code of conduct and formed you into being this man you are today.

I suggest you pull back on reading a lot of books right now. When you find yourself questioning everything, the "overload" signal is flashing in your just need to give it a rest.

I'm also finding out that I never dealt with my anger toward what my WW/WAW did. Since BD, I tried too hard to be kind and forgiving and I took all the blame on myself. I validated her feelings and ignored my own feelings.

And now you are experiencing the results, so ignoring your own pain and needs was not the path to take. Most of what you said in your post describes a man in need of professional help. ((hugs))
62 1,049 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 07:24 PM
And yes, I am fully aware of my contribution to this sitch. I told her as much as to why she is doing what she is doing. I told her that this started when my WW told me that she was pregnant and it just got progressively worse. I abandoned her when she needed me most. I did not give her the attention and affection she deserved. I subliminally blamed her for a lot of the issues in my life. I told her that I took her love for granted because I thought it was going to last forever.

I was extremely wrong.

She did not deserve any of it and I told her as much. I will continue to tell her, whether we piece or not.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 07:15 PM
0 23 Read More
Surviving the Big D
Yesterday at 06:56 PM
True. She is a Doctor and a full time mom to a 7 yr old boy so I assume her time is limited. I could tell by how her dating profile read that she doesn't have time nor wants to play games. It was very straight to the point about who I am, what I want, and to not be offended if I don't respond to your email. She conducted herself in the same manner when we were emailing on Sunday. After about 4 or 5 exchanges she got right to the point and essentially asked me out. So I gave her my number, told her to text me which she did that night.

She is all 100% business.
13 231 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 06:37 PM
She's moving closer because she asked you a timeline for a reason, you gave her an answer, she is approaching it, and she knows just how to reel you in to continue to keep getting things exactly as she wants it.

Yep! This!

Stay strong, Did!
38 615 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 06:04 PM
Thank you. Your post also meant alot. Hits directly on how I have been feeling.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 05:19 PM
Not exactly confident in any IC. My sister sees one and was encouraged to get a dog she can't take care of. We had a session as a family when kids were in school and that soured W on that route. Don't want to deal with the side effects from the meds. I will talk to my Dr. though.

Mentioned how I feel to my Dr. Most of this is because of this whole D thing. So maybe I am too much US and not enough me in my head/heart. Could argue my actions said otherwise to her. Fair enough. My fault again.
Stopped going to church with her and as a family. My fault.
Job changes due to fired/lay off. My fault.
Didn't retire from Navy. My fault. That wasn't a place I wanted to stay. Not professionally. W had pictures of a guy in our house. Yeah... bf type. Our oldest D remembers. So why am I trying.

So messed up. You know. Kick her out. Stack her stuff outside and change the locks.

I've been so bloody stupid. She has some standard I won't ever meet.
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For Newcomers
Yesterday at 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by DejaVu6
H and I are going to try a 2-3-2 schedule. M,T with one parent, W,Th,F with other parent and Sat,Sun with the parent who had the M,T that week. Switches every week. i.e. H, H, W, W, W, H, H and the next week... W, W, H, H, H, W, W and then back to H, H... Weíll see how it goes...
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