While continuing to read through T2's threads, this resonated. My W hasn't gone for the crazy spew for she is too smart and introspective on her own. The dissonance and conflict within does generate warped thinking and feeling though. With detachment now I can more clearly see it. To me, the warping was too subtle to see at first when delivered by the person I trusted most in the world.
Originally Posted by Kimmerz
But this time around, I was able to read that without taking it personally and looking at it objectively, as if maybe it were a friend asking me to read this from her WAS/MLCer. This time what I saw was someone taking absolutely no responsibility for their issues or emotions. Someone playing the complete victum. It was almost as if he were in complete denial of his very own life that he chose to partake in. Also in complete denial of how he sabatoged many things, yet pointed the finger at me.
W, "G, you know I never went looking for this." Because I wasn't the initiator, I'm justified accepting OM's attentions.
W, "I can't go back! I have to burn it all down to the ground so I can move forward." My current feelings for OM override values and principles I have lived by. I can see no other path than follow my feelings.
W, "I know I never thew a fit or stomped my feet but...." I just let my resentment build.
W, "G, how long did you expect me to wait?" I'm a passive victim waiting for you to be who I wanted you to be.
W, "I had to do EVERYTHING" I believe all my chosen life / lifestyle choices were yours to do also.
Negative sentiment override. I have the messages where she praises me for taking care of "everything" while she pursues chosen career and outside the home activities for years.
I asked my sister #2 about that last one for a reality check and described what "everything" included. This sister is perfectly willing to 2X4 me over my head. Was I really that bad? Sister, "but G, every one of those things were life and careeer choices SHE CHOSE! Now she is unhappy with the result of her own choices. And she is repeating those same patterns now..."
W, "There wasn't US time. We didn't go out and do things together." You are responsible for US not making time for ourselves.
As W kept the family social and kids schedule. She booked activities for her and kids 6+ days a week. When asked about which thing(s) to give up to make time...I never got an answer. Me? Well, I should have just overridden instead of asked and waited. I had been trying to give respect in our agreed domains.
W, "No one will understand. I'll always be the villian."
I just registered so that I can join this community that I've benefited so much from over the last 2 months. My initial bomb drop was Feb 2023 and after 6 seemingly good (normal) months, a second bomb drop came in Sept 2023. This one was most serious and he couldn't be in the same room with me. Couldn't look at me. Wanted a divorce. My husband bought a house and moved out just before the holidays.
I did all the 'wrong' things (begging, pleading, angry outbursts, etc.) until I learned about existential crisis and midlife crisis ... or at least to the level/detail I've been reading about it since Feb 2024. It hurts - still! The heartache is pain that takes the breath away, that doesn't seem to clear easily, brings on legitimate panic attacks.
He asked for space and that was exactly what he needed. It's not what I wanted and it was a hard gift to grant him because I craved him, his attention, his voice, his embrace, joint dinners... But, with God's help, I have given his space and left him with God to guide. Neither one of us understood why he needed space but I can tell you in hindsight that we've both matured - it's emotional maturity that we observe in each other. Neither one of us is the same person we were a year ago.
In the midst of all this, I learned I had cancer in November. Somehow I no longer had germs that he avoided like the plague, but I was still not someone he could live with. Oddly, he was interested in taking me to cancer appts/surgery/treatments that continue still. The appts are frequent enough that we're able to keep a pulse on each other and sometimes we enjoy a meal together before he drops me off at 'our' home. And then he goes radio silent until the next appt. Before I read about crisis behavior, I would text or call in between doctor's visits but he would ghost me. Now I don't reach out because he's escaping and avoiding me - and I'm reminded that he asked for space.
Don't give up on your spouse is my advice to you. It's a long and hard road to travel, but only you know if your relationship is worth waiting for. Their confusion and fears tend to trickle into our lives, but only if we let them. We aren't confused as people but we are confused by their actions. Take the time to enjoy your daughter (yes, I know it's hard) and do the things that you haven't found the time to enjoy (yes, also hard to do when you want to return to the life you've enjoyed). Underneath that mask and monster is the same person you learned to love. If you believe in God, return to your faith and deepen your beliefs. I'll pray for you tonight.
thank you for the support. i hope things work out for you.
I just registered so that I can join this community that I've benefited so much from over the last 2 months. My initial bomb drop was Feb 2023 and after 6 seemingly good (normal) months, a second bomb drop came in Sept 2023. This one was most serious and he couldn't be in the same room with me. Couldn't look at me. Wanted a divorce. My husband bought a house and moved out just before the holidays.
I did all the 'wrong' things (begging, pleading, angry outbursts, etc.) until I learned about existential crisis and midlife crisis ... or at least to the level/detail I've been reading about it since Feb 2024. It hurts - still! The heartache is pain that takes the breath away, that doesn't seem to clear easily, brings on legitimate panic attacks.
He asked for space and that was exactly what he needed. It's not what I wanted and it was a hard gift to grant him because I craved him, his attention, his voice, his embrace, joint dinners... But, with God's help, I have given his space and left him with God to guide. Neither one of us understood why he needed space but I can tell you in hindsight that we've both matured - it's emotional maturity that we observe in each other. Neither one of us is the same person we were a year ago.
In the midst of all this, I learned I had cancer in November. Somehow I no longer had germs that he avoided like the plague, but I was still not someone he could live with. Oddly, he was interested in taking me to cancer appts/surgery/treatments that continue still. The appts are frequent enough that we're able to keep a pulse on each other and sometimes we enjoy a meal together before he drops me off at 'our' home. And then he goes radio silent until the next appt. Before I read about crisis behavior, I would text or call in between doctor's visits but he would ghost me. Now I don't reach out because he's escaping and avoiding me - and I'm reminded that he asked for space.
Don't give up on your spouse is my advice to you. It's a long and hard road to travel, but only you know if your relationship is worth waiting for. Their confusion and fears tend to trickle into our lives, but only if we let them. We aren't confused as people but we are confused by their actions. Take the time to enjoy your daughter (yes, I know it's hard) and do the things that you haven't found the time to enjoy (yes, also hard to do when you want to return to the life you've enjoyed). Underneath that mask and monster is the same person you learned to love. If you believe in God, return to your faith and deepen your beliefs. I'll pray for you tonight.
I'm glad that I was able to bring you to thought...
I've always been a "teach a Man to fish" kind of poster rather than a "give a Man a fish"...
KWIM ?
Over the years, and because of my friendship with Jack. I have also become friends with Mrs. J3B, and we have had several conversations about her time in MLC, what she was thinking (or lack thereof) , what she was seeing, feeling, etc....
And one reason I bring this up with you, is about the balance of what I speak of....
Nothing...
Everything...
It's a razors edge for sure.
One thing that I was told by her, was that she was always watching, often times not believing even though it was in front of her. And it was the integrity that Jack acted with, that first made her want to watch more closely. And it was his consistency that eventually prompted her to be more inquisitive.
Which is odd, because Jack always said that his pride was his "ride or die"....
Pride was the hill that he stood on, often times for far too long, and one of his greatest opponents. He walked that line daily, between it being motivation, yet not allowing it to become his downfall.
Mrs. Beans said that after her "bottom", she knew that she had 3 choices to make....
She could return the the marriage, hoping that what she saw had become real...
She could continue with status quo, knowing that it never really fulfilled her heart...
Or, she could remain alone forever, because Jack was her one true love...
Jack, on the other hand. The King of "stop snooping" , found her journal one day that she had left during a visit with the boys....
And there were multiple pages with merely....
"I MISS JACK"
In various scripts and colors....
While hopeful...he had DB on one shoulder, and Pride sat firmly entrenched on the other...
What she feared, and the thing that she worked the hardest to overcome...
Was the feeling of being judged..
And the fear of being judged, while it being strong from others....
Played a vital role in her having difficulties with forgiveness....
I linked T2's thread because I see a lot of his posting style in you....
The way he processed, and thought. I see that you could be Kindred posters, and that you could learn from one hell of a guy. He too went through a metamorphosis to become what he should have always been. And I think a lot of us have done that post bomb, and many have been surprised on how instinctively that has happened for us.
I have also witnessed several Men in that situation burn out quickly from doing that. The sustained instant accountability becomes overwhelming if the reason is merely obtaining a goal. When the goal fades, so does the façade of changing because we simply felt the need to change...
Mind you, that has NOT happened with T2, and only time will tell with your story..
This process....DB.....
Is about consistency (as you know by now).....
DBing is a way of life for me now, and why do it at all if I wasn't going to continue it.
You're a deep thinker Grok, and sometimes deep thinkers scare me a bit.
As I think about it , what comes to mind is....
"Beware The Ides of March....."
I see a strong, capable, confident man taking the wheel and steering the ship....
What I also see....
Is a strong, capable man taking the wheel and steering the ship....
Be careful Grok....on which shoulder wins...
Keep reading T2....
Things get interesting around thread 14, 15, 16.....
Some direct advice/suggestions: Do not contact her in an attempt to change her mind. She has to come to that herself.
Your need/idea of getting rejected again, to see her again, that angry emotional person again - little good will come from that.
aph, you are figuring this out. Rationalizing what has happened and W’s behaviours. That is a daunting and difficult task when one’s spouse has/is behaving non-rationally and driven by emotions. Your efforts towards rationalizing is healthy forward progress.
great advice. my wanting to contact her has subsided as i know it would lead to more pain.
Encouraging you to burn every ounce of fuel to outlast her MLC, to find a way through this while causing minimal damage. To find one more day within yourself. He would ask if she was worth it, the waiting for her to figure herself out before a bell was rung that could not be un-rung..
He would tell you that your spouse carried your marriage at times on her back, and that maybe it's just your time to carry the marriage for while.
Originally Posted by J3B
"Today is not the day I quit, maybe I will tomorrow, but let's see what tomorrow brings"
He would also tell you to use your anger as a shield, not as a sword with your interactions....
And that there is nothing that you can say or do to change this, yet everything that you say or do will change this....
LOL, yea....when that makes sense, you will be on your way....
I wanted to tell her its not my problem anymore but i told her what i would do but that didnt work for them. she complained that she broke a nail and it was bleeding trying to start it.
A new behavior that I added to my interactions with women after my divorce:
My lady asked me today: "Can you move my car so it is facing out?" My response was: "Yes, would you mind moving my laundry from the washer to the dryer?"
Typically a yes for a yes.
It started with:
If a woman asks if you will buy her a drink, an enthusiastic "YES, after you buy me one! with a wink."
11:30p Saturday night. Mach1, Thank you for stoping by and adding to my story. I’ve been thinking about what you post and now T2’s story (as I find time to read) multiples times a day. I feel a kinship and you are right on the similarities. I just haven’t written my examination of myself here. Or thought trails from each section of your posts.
Originally Posted by Mach1
And that there is nothing that you can say or do to change this, yet everything that you say or do will change this....
LOL, yea....when that makes sense, you will be on your way....
I have felt the shape of this since early on. Like many things, the devil is in the execution.
You see, when the bomb dropped I quickly looked over my life and found many things needing correcting. One of which was the lack of friends and mentors in my daily life…as I had not been cultivating them in my complacency, depression, etc…. Both the usual story and my own. I see you all as helping to fill in some of the gaps. Oh, to be sure, this does not negate the need for friends and mentors physically present right here, but I knew right from the initial critical analysis, that time was both a gift and my enemy. Many things needing fixing take more time than I had as the need was RIGHT NOW.
Time, time, time…. Prioritizing, sorting, balancing all the things. Work to pay the bills, Animals to take care of, Household chores and maintenance to do. Oh! I forgot. $%#@ I have to move laundry from washer to dryer RIGHT NOW before I forget again and fall asleep. Be right back. … OK. D19 (!! Today Saturday is her birthday, no longer D18 !!), D17, S12 to give each individual attention and time to, Meals to make, groceries to get, fitness to keep up with, books to read, family talk to, Kids activities to do, saw a L three weeks ago for draft settlement review and still haven’t written up the changes I want, DB forum to read, DB posts to write somehow…. And the list goes on without a partner.
I feel blessed and exhausted both. I made a determination to myself early on that kids staying with me, with all the extra effort and money it takes, is my win and my blessing. I will step up and not regret a single minute. A couple days in the life of G...the everything I do and say.
Just before bedtime tonight, “hey D17, we should eat these Kiwi fruits now before they go bad“ D17, “Daaaad, we just got them yesterday!” G, “What?! Did we really? It seems so long ago. What have I been doing? Let me think starting with yesterday, Friday.”
0630 get up, take vitamins, put on shorts, take big dog for a mile walk, feed dogs, shower, make breakfast, help D17 feed baby bird
0715 fire up the work laptop computer as I can work from home today. Check in.
0830 ask D17 to go shopping with me at 0900 for D18’s last birthday gifts and stop by grocery store on the way back. Grumpy at first but agrees and cheers up. See D18 out the door for work. S12 wakes up, make sure he has something to eat.
0930 get text W is taking S12 out for a bit. Wait for an hour and then send back “OK.”
1000 find Lego cars D18 wants, figure out it costs lots less to order online and pick up in the store in an hour, EVEN THOUGH I’M STANDING IN THE STORE! Pick up other small gifts and party supplies. Head out for groceries and will come back for online order pickup….sigh.
1030 get most of the groceries we will need for the next week (those kiwi fruits), head back to first store to pick up online Lego car order.
1130 arrive home again, S12 is back, help make lunch for all, start work again. Find W had gone for donuts with S12 and left a box.
1600 Grab D17 and S12 to take big dog to the dog park for socializing and run about time. Kids need to get out also. S12 grumpy about leaving his computer game. Promise him he can set a 45 minute timer at the park and then we can leave. He settles down as he does better with defined end states.
1800 back working for a bit and then out the door to take D17 to work at her gym then back to work for some more. Give up on work, it is a Friday, and play computer game with S12, D18 arrives home.
1900 make pizza for all with pre-made roll out dough
2030 head out to pick up D17 and return, have everyone help with dishes and some clean up. D17 makes cake for tomorrow’s birthday party.
2130 get kids started on any last hungry issues, gather up dogs for evening walk w/ S12 before bed. He is unhappy because it is D18’s turn but she promises to do the next few nights.
2230 all about ready for bed but each comes and visits me for this or that reason. S12 asks where is mom? “I don’t know son.”
2330 I think I can turn out the light now. Mind spins around thinking DB thoughts. I do not get enough sleep with this schedule.
0630 get up, take vitamins, put on shorts, take big dog for a mile walk, feed dogs, shower, make breakfast, help D17 feed baby bird. She goes back to sleep. Weekend sleeping in does not exist any more for me. Take care of little dogs
0700 D19! Now! Opens one eye and I wish her Happy Birthday. She shuts eye again. Ask her to get up as I’m taking S12 and D19! on a bike ride with a friend I’ve made this year. Our daughters knew each other before, though his are much younger. We need to leave at 8. I hook up bike rack and fasten bikes and gather supplies.
0730 D17 leaves with W for gym.
0800 Me, S12 and D19! depart for his house where there are paved trails. We stop by drive through donut shop for breakfast sandwiches. We, along with friend and two of his kids, ride bikes at a leisurely pace for the kids with a grocery store destination. I buy a 18 pack of popsicles, three each, and we eat them all. We get back to his house just in time for him to depart for a swim graduation
1100 arrive home and ensure kids help put away all biking stuffs.
1130 It turns out W texts D19 and asks her to pick up D17 from gym as she forgot a prior engagement. D19 is upset with W for throwing last minute tasks at her repeatedly. I said I’d go and get D17. Ask D19 to do lunch things for S12.
1200 pick up D17 from gym and take her to pet store to buy more baby bird food. She wants to bring home rescued kittens. I say NO. Buy her a chicken sandwich lunch as the other two got a take out breakfast. She is always extra hungry after gym.
1245 package delivered with some of D19’s gifts. Whew! Got lucky.
It also contains a PD-1638 mechanical watch mentioned in Sunflyer's thread. I picked silver and blue. A 180? Maybe as I haven't worn a watch in 20+ years. This was more for taking care of me as I love complicated mechanical things.
1300 Start Birthday Party prep with D17 and S12. D19 told to stay in her room. Balloons, streamers, frosting the cake made last night, dinosaur theme and we have little wind up dinosaurs. Final presents wrapped. Our fingers all stained from food coloring for the frosting.
1330 W arrives for our little party. She goes and lays on couch, facing the wall. Apparently napping. S12 covers her with blanket. D17 and I bounce around with final prep. D19 complains of being bored waiting.
1400 Gifts, cake, song. Happy smiles. Out of a gift set, D17 claims clip on earrings D19 doesn’t want. D19 seems happy with her gifts.
D17, “Daddy, D19 said she would get her ears pierced again if you did. You did promise you would and I want a second one in my right ear.” G, “OK, I did promise. Look up where and we will make plans.” W, … looks on at the conversation. Can’t tell what she thinks….
This is a 180 for me certainly. I’ve never had a desire or gotten any tattoos or piercings. I’m doing it to step out of my comfort zone and for daughters. Perhaps an example to S12. My only caveat is mine must be masculine.
1500 W departs looking tired.
1530 D17 wants to to it right now today. O! OK, I say, find a place and the requirements. We will do it right now. We find out she needs a notarized state permission form as she is a minor. I search and find a public notary service open on a Saturday. Print the form.
This is another 180 for me. I like to take my time and consider all the factors and implications. Do it right now... feels odd and exciting.
1600 We depart leaving S12 at home playing game update he had been waiting for. Find and accomplish the notarized form. Find the tattoo/piercing place. It is clean and professional looking. Interesting cast of employees and their semi-revealing dress and creative use of language. They were all kind and helpful. I ask for D19 about the swim lessons she teaches and healing. They say absolutely not within 30+ days.
She looks crushed and about to burst into tears. She had worked up her courage, worked her heart into acceptance, would have something meaningful on her birthday to remember with us…but…to be denied because she needed her work. I resisted the urge to fix it for her. I tried to validate how she felt. As D17 and I get ours done, D19 messages friends and they recommend water sealing bandaids and ear covers. I tell D19 that is an acceptable risk if she still wants to get her ears done. We just won’t tell the piercing place… she considers.
I go first and have left ear done with small black onyx pin. D17 goes next and squeezes my hand next to crushing, though I give no sign how hard she squeezes. She gets a small emerald color gem in upper ear. D19 has joy and fear in her face now when I ask her decision. She says yes, let’s do it. The technician takes a look at her ears and says hey wait, you have old holes in your ears I think I can just open back up. It will save you $$ and recovery time! Both ear piercings are opened back up with an audible “POP!” And some pain. D19 refuses to squeeze my hand. She gets small clear gems in each ear. I pay for us all. The titanium costs extra, but let us do this right. D19 opens up about how upset she was. Just about breaking down and sitting in the car. She is beaming now though and ordering ear coverings online.
1900 back home and making some food. Birthday mess cleanup will wait until tomorrow. D19 heads to store to meet friend and spend gift cards. The rest all relax for an hour. Whew what a day so far.
2000 set about collecting medical bills for insurance plan purposes
2100 help with baby bird feeding, get dogs ready for evening walk, minor pick up the house
2130 when taking out trash, notice W sitting outside the house in her car, apparently doom scrolling social media on her phone. I wonder how long she has been there. She doesn’t notice me I think. D19 messages she will be back home at 2200 to walk dogs with me.
2145 W enters house briefly and dogs go nuts. She calls out to S12 to meet her outside and exits again. S12 was on his way to brush his teeth and continues on to do so.
2200 I walk dogs with D19 and W is still outside on her phone, going and coming back.
2230 W group messages to send S12 out to her. D19 does so. Did she really wait outside in her car for over an hour?
2300 everyone is finally in their beds. I look over Mach1’s post and think of all the things I thought about writing
2330 It is now 11:30p on Saturday night and I’m finally writing something. It turns into something about time, everything we do and say, and inspired by Kiwi fruits, and being so busy I forget things.
Utilize the 24-48 hour rule for communication with STBXW.
Give yourself 24-48 hours before responding to her. This allows your emotions to settle and for you to respond more from rational logic and reason rather than stirred up feelings.
That is, if you respond.
24-48 hours, also gives you time to think and decide if you need to, or should, respond.
Remember, time and space. Give her what she asked for. What she demanded.
Time and space, allows her other feelings and life’s struggles to affect her. Other feelings which are more productive to a possible reconciliation.
Of course, the big reason for this strategy and path is you. You are the most important person in this equation. Give yourself 24-48 hours - because you deserve it! You deserve and are worthy of rational logical thoughtful forward movement. Do not deny yourself this.
Going down memory lane is very common. Minutes quickly turn into hours whilst looking at old photographs or reading old love letter/emails/texts. It is easy to get lost wandering down memory lane.
Most times, especially in the beginning, stop! Picture that big reg stop sign! Do something else! Go for a run, a walk, hit a punching bag, mow the grass, wash the windows, etc.
Focus on you. Get a life. Live your life. Love your life. (I know, crazy hard right now. You will get there.)
W’s problems with starting her lawn mower are not your’s to fix. She fired you as husband.
Also, she is keeping you attached. Sitting on a shelf. And she might not even realize or recognize she is doing so. 24-48 hours helps with that too. You aren’t Plan B. You are the prize. Live like it!
Some direct advice/suggestions: Do not contact her in an attempt to change her mind. She has to come to that herself.
Your need/idea of getting rejected again, to see her again, that angry emotional person again - little good will come from that.
aph, you are figuring this out. Rationalizing what has happened and W’s behaviours. That is a daunting and difficult task when one’s spouse has/is behaving non-rationally and driven by emotions. Your efforts towards rationalizing is healthy forward progress.
Intellectual understanding leads to compassion and emotional understanding. Which leads to acceptance and forgiveness.
A big component that goes along with all that is your inner work. Compassionate, kind, cordial, detached, GAL, focused on you and what you can control, and so on - all goes hand in hand with rationalizing one’s situation. Know thyself is first and foremost. And truth be told, is what rationalizing and understanding one’s situation is really about. Understanding thyself.
24-48 hours. Give yourself that gift. Allow yourself to respond if you choose to, rather than react.
Originally Posted by aphexx13
I believed in us 100% and i trusted her 100% when she told me over and over again that we would grow old together.
I understand and empathize.
Betrayal is a horrible thing. One of, if not the worst thing one can do to another person.
Betrayal cuts deep. Really deep.
Dig deeper aph. Dig deeper than your pain. Find you. Find your strength and convictions.
I made a new post and i wanted to include it here in case people only read or follow this original post.
(Merged posts into original thread. - DnJ)
I've read all the info on what im feeling and I know its a terrible idea but I feel like im on a icy hill and as hard as im fighting these feelings i feel like im sliding into contacting my wife to change her mind. stupid I know! I can almost guarantee she would reject me which would cause me more pain. I feel weak for even thinking this. my wife called me yesterday about how i would start our lawn mower thats old and hard to start for the first time of the season. she and her son couldnt get it going. I wanted to tell her its not my problem anymore but i told her what i would do but that didnt work for them. she complained that she broke a nail and it was bleeding trying to start it.
It was my wifes daughters birthday party that my daughter couldnt go to like she has for the past 5 yrs. My stepdaughter would invite a few friends over and it would be a lot of games and a sleepover. I felt sad for my daughter who missed it.
I did another stupid thing by looking at a years worth of texting between me and my wife. I think i was looking for clues to when things went south and also to feel her words again when we were happy and loving to each other. no one saw this divorce coming and she was texting me right up to the day before she said she was divorcing me. writing this now i feel that those were just words and not true actions of love, i guess.
maybe im wanting to get rejected by her so i can see her true self again. none of her actions make sense no one can understand why she is divorcing me and how she is doing it so quick and easy. i feel like me and my daughter were thrown away like trash. my councilor gave me some encouragement that im the one acting normal and my wife is the one acting strangely. my councilor cant make sense of my wifes actions either. How my wife could say that we were fine and even have sex with me 2 days before she dropped the bomb on me makes no sense. its like she snapped her fingers and changed into someone else. I miss our family and i miss her, the her i fell in love with not the cruel monster that she turned into. I believed in us 100% and i trusted her 100% when she told me over and over again that we would grow old together.
Really confused abt what stage H may b in. We were talking on the phone and when we would talk it would be for hours. The last time I saw H he said I had changed and asked if I had a BF, said he didn't care if I did. He is now ghosting me. Doesn't respond to anything. Idk what that means. Don't know if he is withdrawing, I believe his sister is keeping him from that stage and feel like she is trying to fix him up with one of her friends. I don't talk to my boys abt the situation, to know whether or not he is talking to them. Has anybody ever experienced the withdrawal phase being the only person to be withdrawn from? I know I haven't handled the situation the way that has been talked abt on here. It's so hard to go from talking and seeing someone everyday for 30yrs to not talking to them or seeing them at all. I have prob prolonged the whole crisis, I hope and pray I havent.
just looking for others that are going through divorce or recently divorced. mine will be final in 30 days. just wanting to hear how others are doing. feeling alone with this right now.
Not much I can add, other than that my situation is practically a mirror of yours.
And many others. See how many “fill in the blanks” similarities there are in Jack Three Beans story reposted by AmyC. They both had a lot of experience and insights to share and well worth your time to read.
Originally Posted by AmyC
Jack's Story
Once upon a time, Jack was complacent in his marriage and home life. He did the bare minimum, as did his wife. As parents they were “there" but not really there for their two wonderful boys. Jack lost himself from the troubles, cares and boredom of the world in video games. Jack's wife lost herself in the attention of Jack's friend.
That was a year and a half ago, more or less. My story is much like anyone else's. We could make a form and leave blank spaces here for all of the new people.
A year plus into this I can identify here now. It is uncomfortable. Where did she go?
Originally Posted by AmyC
Now Jack, doesn't know if he wants her in his life. The things that he used to be able to swallow stick in his throat. He sometimes see the friend he used to have, but mostly it is just this person sitting across from him, this stranger who looks like someone he used to know.
Even when you may feel like you have nothing to say, simply thank you for stopping by. For me, when we do this it says someone understands, someone cares, you are not alone. I started in Lamentations, feeling alone, feeling like my faults were the sum of things, and feeling like OM's power loomed large.
Hey G....
Been keeping up a bit with your sitch...
I'm not here much anymore, although I do stop by occasionally to read.
Anytime my old friend's names are dropped, I do perk up a bit and pay attention to what's being said and interpreted.
I think if you were to read any situation from the past, you will find so many similarities in them.
So much of MLC is textbook, and so many of the stories resonate when you are in the heat of the battle.
I do see some things though, within you, that resemble Jack. The understanding, the softness, some of the interactions.
He came into DB softly, yet wielding a big stick. He owned his faults and acted on them to change and become a better version of himself. He was very vocal about his role in the breakdown of his marriage.
Most of his threads have been purged by now, which is a shame. He did have a way of telling his story.
He was also a walkaway, from his first marriage. And I think a lot of that allowed him to find empathy in his situation.
To him, the confusion that the WAS displays is the difference in those two paths.
Jack was also the first person that would tell you that there were people here, posters, that were more deserved of reconciliation of their marriage, yet he was lucky. Lucky that his wife's MLC was shorter than others, and he was able to outlast it.
And he DBed with the best of them, right up to the point where he was done....
AmyC was a fireball of MLC, a hailstorm within herself. She was the one in MLC that destroyed her marriage, and her husband DBed her without knowing what that meant, and when she hit her rock bottom, she tried to regain what had been lost, up until she realized that she was not going to sell her soul, just to be married to her husband....
Her reflection on that, and her openness of what MLC looked like was what made her special.
Jack would have been a fan of you though....
Encouraging you to burn every ounce of fuel to outlast her MLC, to find a way through this while causing minimal damage. To find one more day within yourself. He would ask if she was worth it, the waiting for her to figure herself out before a bell was rung that could not be un-rung..
He would tell you that your spouse carried your marriage at times on her back, and that maybe it's just your time to carry the marriage for while.
Originally Posted by J3B
"Today is not the day I quit, maybe I will tomorrow, but let's see what tomorrow brings"
He would also tell you to use your anger as a shield, not as a sword with your interactions....
And that there is nothing that you can say or do to change this, yet everything that you say or do will change this....
LOL, yea....when that makes sense, you will be on your way....
For me ?
I liken your story to another friend here.... TSqaured2
So things are moving along. WW continues to be unreliable, made a committment to be here this saturday to help box up things and separate what we have to get rid of and pick what she needs to keep. I am only looking to keep my own possessions, as in collectibles, books, my computer and my clothing and such, I have offered her everything else, I want to do a full cleanse of anything that we owned together. She then tells me she has plans this satuday, not surprising to me at all, when she falls head over heels with one of the OMs its her typical pattern, which is why things have taken longer than necessary to resolve. The more i see this the more i feel the nudge to push forward with a completely new life. I handed in my long term leave (5 years) form at work and it was approved, i moved 5 weeks i had of vacation that i will tack into the 5 weeks preceding the closing of the home. Next week I am going to renew my passport and once i have it ready I will book my one way ticket back to my home country, i have already began making provisions for when i get there. I now have the time to take care of clearing the home, shipping some clothing and things i will need, giving things that are mine away to people that I know, people that have supported me through this time and were there for me when I was in a dark place. While this gives me some clarity and gives me set dates, it is a hard pill to swallow. My heart is torn but my mind is pushing me forward into starting a new life and leaving all of my old baggage behind.
I dont think she fulls understands that i will no longer be in her life in any form whatsoever, 5000km away, new phone number, no address to find me. She has taken for granted my presence in her life while she lives her narcissistic ego driven existence. But that is all coming to an end soon and a new chapter of my life shall start.
More recently, W shifted to telling me she wants me to be happy and doesn't want me to later regret sticking with her to which I said "I appreciate your thoughtfulness. I'd let you know if I had similar concerns".
I like this response. I heard something very similar from W and wish I had thought of it!
I showed this quote to an officer who served with her. He found it not matching reality...that she had more success than most of her peers.
I also note she says no one helps her but me and the kids. The complaint this year was she gave and gave and I didn't give back.
I can believe this. The things she wrote make it sound like she is in frequent, maybe constant, competition with herself.
I have also learned of the importance of validation to women. Certainly they require it more than many of us expected. If you had validated your W more, would she have stayed? The reality is, who knows. Statements like she hasn't "won" anything in a while, that life is boring and mediocre are concerning. I am no therapist, but if someone said these things to me I would feel that there is deeper unrest beyond the marital issues.
I identify with the "gave and gave" comment. I heard the same thing. She used to tell the kids, "Daddy and I are a team. We always look out for each other and help each other." Now, her view is it was all one-sided.
Had our counseling appointment yesterday. Overall, it felt like a productive discussion.
W brought up a good deal of her historical concerns (not feeling like I put her first, issues w/ my mother, not feeling like our money situation is fair, and a smattering of other issues) and now with MLC and menopause not being interested in sex.
The counselor asked why come to counseling at this point with D looming. W said it was because I didn't to divorce. When the counselor turned to me, I clarified that 1) W asked me a month ago about trying counseling again and 2) I've come to accept that we may reconcile or D and am OK with either outcome. If we can reconcile, I'm on board with trying. Further, if the only reason W wants counseling is because she feels I don't want to D, we probably shouldn't be doing counseling.
W struggled to tell the counselor what she meant by not feeling like I put W first. The only example shared involved my mother and a struggle between them around how we celebrate Mother's day. For years, we tried having my mom, MIL, SIL and, W celebrate together. W felt like she never got to be "The Mom". I'd asked what that would look like and W really couldn't say. I offered suggestions like "Do you want to go away for the weekend? Should we just tell everyone we're doing our own thing?" and even said "I'm going to do X" to which she historically responded "Well, I want to see why my mom (MIL to MrP) wants to do first...." So I told the counselor I feel stuck in a bit of a loop.
Regarding money, I make double what W does. Before we got married, we agreed to split our budget in proportion to our income. I cover 70-80% of our expenses; W the rest. As time passed, W felt like this was unfair (because I still have a surplus from not being a spender). I've offered to revisit our budget or pool money (as of 6-7 years ago). I've tried to set up time for us to work through it. W doesn't like talking about money, has social anxiety, and just avoids the discussion. Hard to solve something when one party just wants to complain and not do the work. W somewhat acknowledged the mixed messaging here.
We covered some additional ground about what we want to get out of counseling. I said W is really driving the show because we've got mediation in a month and the court was pushing for the D to be done in about 2 months. W wants to go back for more counseling and is talking with her L today about options to delay/postpone the D.
Another point of recap...the first time W filed for D in 2018/19, I put in a ton of DB work to the point that W told our counselor at the time that I'd "become the perfect husband". Before that, I'd describe our issues as common solvable ones described by John Gottman in his well-researched books. W has high social anxiety issues, like is an avoidant attachment style, and a confessed perfectionist. I'm not perfect, but admittedly I've increasingly felt like these issues and some past trauma/abuse that W suffered are at the core of our relationship at this point. A prior MC went so far as to tell me that our marraige won't move forward until W deals with this past trauma.
I am left wondering now if D may be a better route for me and D13. Continuously revisiting these issues, often through the lens of negative sentiment override (where one part overwrites most memories into a negative light) and three MCs later, maybe I'm seeing that W can't break free from the loop...and I'm trying to "white knight" the situation. Thoughts appreciated. Right now, I'm still a believer in MWDs philosophies about D not being a real solution. Just a bit tired of the amount of mental effort (and impact of physical wellness) with this counseling, mediation, and possible D all coming to a head right now. Phew. Time to stop. Thanks for listening. Be well, all.
One of my favorite pieces of advice for success, and it comes from Yoda!
I remember being twelve years old when the first Star Wars movie came out. I was the perfect, impressionable age for that story. And I remember seeing it for the first time and being immediately hooked. As in the first five minutes. It turned my adolescent world upside down.
A few years later, my fifteen year-old self heard Yoda say those words, and they struck me like a lightning bolt. Little did I know how important they would be at some of the most challenging times of my life. I keep recalling them over and over. I have come through other major challenges when I stopped trying and started doing.
The loss of my parents. The time and sacrifice spent earning a doctorate. Needing to leave a job I had great hopes for and start building my future all over again. I came through all of these and not only survived, but thrived.
And I will do it again.
And so will you, aphexx. I know the wounds are fresh. They sting. Mine stung too, horribly. Now, after almost a year of self-reflection and work, I am seeing the path forward. It is there. You will find yours as well. Keep posting and striving.
Grok. My W has exhibited similar behavior (constant comments about gray hair....needing to get it dyed, wondering about going all gray, etc.) and I recognize my MIL has historically said/done similar things about her hair. Years ago, during my first attempt at DBing, W was certain she wanted to get a tattoo, loose weight, questioned many previous life choices, and other MLC-like behavior).
Thanks to this forum, I've worked to pivot to what I can control, focused on myself and daughter, and researched strategies for navigating life with an MLC partner for now. More recently, W shifted to telling me she wants me to be happy and doesn't want me to later regret sticking with her to which I said "I appreciate your thoughtfulness. I'd let you know if I had similar concerns".
I fully agree with Sunflyer that needing someone who "can't live w/o her" seems unhealthy all around. Death, serious illness/injuries, and many other things can take loved ones from us in an instant. I can appreciate wanting a partner who is truly in it for the other person. Can't live w/o them is over the top IMHO.
Hey Rock. Sorry to hear about the loss and hope you and your friend are doing as well as you can. Glad to hear you've otherwise got a lot on your plate in terms of dancing, running, family, and friends. Negotiations are slow via email. I guess the upside is that everything is documented so that there is less chance for confusion later. Keep at it! All the best. P
