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A Message from Michele
Active Threads | Active Posts | Unanswered Today | Since Yesterday | This Week
For Newcomers
3 minutes ago
JB,

So you seem happy that she needs to keep you around for your money and to be her butler???WTF????

Unchien is correct on probably 90 percent of his comments.

Iíll ask again. Why do you believe she has the right to throw you out? Is your name on the house?

Until you start to respect yourself and command respect from her you are toast my friend.
39 680 Read More
Midlife Crisis
12 minutes ago
Journaling.....

I'm thankful for this forum. Not only for the advice, support, and friendship, but it also gives me a reason to organize my thoughts and work out the issues of the day.

Anxiety is running rampant, yet again.

I canít stop the freight train carrying H to a train wreck. I donít have the power. I know it. I donít think he has the power either. Heís weak. Depressed. Frozen in a miserable, lonely existence. Yes lonely even with OW Iíd venture to guess. Heís on that train and doesnít know how to get off.

There was a time this morning at work that I realized I didnít think about H for a few hours. I prayed right then and there a prayer of thanks for that reprieve. Any moment he (they) are not on my mind is a blessing.

Yet I'm anxious.

How can I be so good just a few short weeks ago. And I feel so incredibly anxious now? Even after the burden that was lifted by finally letting H know his choices are not o.k. Getting it out in the open. I felt great after that, for a short while.

My lack of control over the situation takes my destiny out of my hands.

I fear the unknown. I fear dealing with the fallout, hurt and disappointment of my kids when they learn their dad has chosen a life with a girlfriend while married to their mom. D19 is already fragile.

I fear the daunting task of potentially (likely?) separating our lives completely and forever.

But, my destiny is in MY hands, isnít it? I donít need to ride that train to a wreck and fear the unknown. I need to get off, and take matters in my own hands.

Stop snooping. Ė I fell off the wagon and this caused my anxiety to rear its ugly head today. Phone records show a call from a mortgage broker. Doesnít H know that he canít buy a place without my knowledge? Doesnít he know that it will be 50% mine if he uses our money, including all the furnishings? Heís a smart man. How can he be so stupid? Maybe heís not buying a place at all. Unlikely. The evidence is piling up. Iíll know by Labor Day for sure.

Iím really beginning to hate the waiting. Donít wait, move forward! Ugh!

Make GAL plans Ė Have plans Friday night with a girlfriend to catch up. Next Friday and Saturday are also booked. Iíll spend tons of time with D19. Itís her birthday next week. Iíve got less than a month before she goes back to school.

Meet with my attorney Ė I reached out to her to discuss contingencies if H buys a place, and to discuss my finances and a potential separation agreement (not legally, as itís not allowed in my state). I'm looking forward to meeting with her.

Call a friend Ė messaged her. And she is a blessing.

Love on my kids Ė always and every day

Maybe itís time for a wee glass of wine, put my feet up, and watch T.V.

Tomorrow will bring yet another perspective.

I hope itís fresh and not stale.

Grace
38 872 Read More
For Newcomers
16 minutes ago
She last texted me at 2:30, "Strange day.." She's supposed to begin heading to my place in 15 minutes, arriving in 75 minutes. Within 45 minutes I want to hear "On my way!" or a clear cancellation. If she cancels, I go to Yoga. If no word, I go to Yoga and will not be setting aside my time for another date this week.

I'm out of the threat and ultimatum business, but I have boundaries.

I finished work early and spent an hour playing Minecraft then watching TV with my kids.
32 478 Read More
For Newcomers
50 minutes ago
Hmm?.. Unichen counciling has to be able to work for you too I would take it. What are you're needs and do you think MC and W can and ate willing to meet them in MC session? How is this benefiting you.
Something I became self aware of over the last few days. Every time I have a moment of weakness to want to return to the M. I tell myself now to push through it. Realize the past and the person from it is not the present. I tell myself to push through it. Focus on what I want for myself in my life outside of R and carry forward. In that moment if weakness is strength if you are willing to push through it, and take it. Regardless if who divorces who in my sich. I know I will be ok.
62 954 Read More
Midlife Crisis
51 minutes ago
You AND the kids might enjoy the holiday more without him.

You can practice saying things like "I would like you to come but I understand if you don't feel comfortable going, we will be fine on our own".

"I wish you weren't moving out but I know it's your choice, I hope you find what you are looking for."

"I would prefer to save the marriage but I know that's not how you feel, so I wish you the best in life."

Just state your preference, but then let him know you've dropped the rope and are not trying to pull him back.

AS long as you pull on the rope they pull away; sometimes when you drop the rope they fall over or start walking back.
16 312 Read More
Surviving the Big D
1 hour ago
I am doing very well all things considered B...thanks. I think my next thread will be in the Surviving the Big D section as my divorce should be final by the end of the summer so will be joining you soon. Please donít get too discouraged with OLD... lots of dire predictions in your response to Don that I doubt will come true. You have lots to offer and there are many great women out there who would love to have you for a partner. Just be patient and try not to rush into things too quickly when you think you may have found her. You have lots of time. I, too, have been married twice and am highly sceptical that I will go down that road a third time. But... I will never say never. The universe is full of surprises. Sending you lots of (((HUGS))) and positive healing energy. xo
42 534 Read More
For Newcomers
1 hour ago
No big deal.
79 858 Read More
For Newcomers
1 hour ago
Ohhh I just screwed up. She went into bathroom to change for swimming. She said @ you can go firstĒ

I said ďbathrooms big enough for both of usĒ

She just ignored me and shut door
79 858 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 11:51 PM
Oh and also thanks for that last bit of advice LH RTC STEVE and cadet. Didnít mean to leave that out. You guys are really helping me understand the ins and outs. (Something important to me)
79 858 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 11:47 PM
Originally Posted by "Ozman"
W. Ya I went to sisters house to pick up S. We got invited to swim. You wanna go?
H. Hmm sounds nice itís really hot out, you wanna go?


Hi Ozman, a tad wishy-washy. She asked you, indicating some willingness. I'd probably say either, "Sure, what time?" or "I have plans. Raincheck?" ::shrug:: Lately I'm on an "I do what I want" buzz. I'll defer to others here, who are maybe more steps removed than I emotionally. wink

I'm sorry she didn't invite you to the wedding, especially given that co-worker issue.

Pottery sounds like a fun GAL activity. Most shops you just paint--which is fun and meditative. Some let you create your own pottery, then bring it in and fire it for a fee. Some have wine nights for singles. Shooting well takes practice, and most ranges have weekly contests and other activities to introduce you to others.
79 858 Read More
Surviving the Big D
Yesterday at 11:39 PM
DV6! Thank you!! I really appreciate your encouragement! And it's wonderful to see friends from the For Newcomers section in the Surviving the Big D section as well!

Hope you are doing well! :-)
42 534 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by "Steve85"
When I look back at it, I think there is a big difference between confronting your spouse and then them dropping the bomb. And in them just dropping the bomb out of the blue. In the first, it as if you made them drop the bomb before they were ready to. They may not have mentally gone all the way to wanting to deep down, without a doubt, dissolve their marriage. In the second, I feel that the WAS has already gone much further down the road mentally to where they are in a much darker place in relation to the MR.


Steve, I finally read your situation. It's great you discovered the EA before she could BD and found the strength (after 3 days--human!) to DB hard. When my "partner" left, it was the THIRD time she'd announced she was leaving. I suppose I had the same chance as you if I was paying more attention. Next time. smile

From the first time we were together--I'd only spent about 40-60 hours with her--I believed she was the one. I no longer have any expectations and I am placing minimal trust in her. I have a backup plan for our date tonight, even! I think her power to hurt me now is diminished. I held my own on our road trip.

Yesterday she told me a guy had given her a cookie and *maybe* he was flirting. First thought--I trust her. Second thought--I don't, jealousy. Third thought--::shrug:: She controls her. I'll be ready to date again in a few months and I'm not so bad at it. And I wonder if she told me that to try to reel me in!

Can we re-build trust? I don't know. I'm guarded but will give it a little effort: (a) responding to good mornings, (b) nightly chats, (c) a couple dates each week as long as they sound fun.

I'll throw in an occasional loving act with no expectations of reciprocation!
32 478 Read More
Surviving the Big D
Yesterday at 11:20 PM
So Don...my apologies up front...I am NOT 34. When I first joined and was paranoid that my exW was watching me I fudged my age. Somewhere in a post long ago I let folks know I was mid-40's...just never update the signature.

My D4 is doing very well all things considered. Week on/week off custody has been in place for better than a year now and she loves my new place. When she's with me she and I are together enjoying ourselves non-stop and for the record she has met ZERO mother type figures as yet. I waited from the time my exW left until my agreement was signed before I even considered starting to date and that was 14 months. Also I've been in counseling since my exW BD and it was not until my IC and I spoke that I encountered the lady who serves as the one who just concluded seeing me AND I will be meeting with my IC again this week to discuss what has happened and plan to continue seeing her and working on myself.

Thing is when I did decide to OLD I had very low expectations for it. I just figured put myself out there, see what happens. Well the lady I'm speaking of currently in my thread was the one who contacted me and I had been very attracted to her. Beyond swiping on her pic that was the extent of me being aggressive or proactive in seeking to fill a void. She did contact me, I was very interested in her specifically and so I pursued it.

Just want to set that straight as I'm far from out of control as perhaps I might seem. And don't worry, this one has kicked me so bad I may not ever try again. Seeing 50 on the horizon, the cruelty that exists in here today, gone the next dating...the unlikeness that I will ever be married til death do us part like my parents...single and leaving ladies alone is looking better and better with each passing day.

Again my apologies and thank you for your thoughts.

-B
42 534 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 11:04 PM
Maybe Iím overlooking the bad too

She got invited to a wedding of her coworkers. Told me she is going. Didnít invite me. I figure thatís something you usually bring your spouse to

Just got home. Sheís not here. Enjoying a cold one before I hit the shower. I found a pottery making place about two block away. Gonna see what itís all about. I found a couple ranges too. May go brush up with my .40 cal.

Iím hurtin right now. Like really bad. Lump in my throat while Iím writing this. But this is what you asked for so here goes

I told her Iím GAL for first time. Here was convo

H. Hey I missed a call from you
W. Ya I went to sisters house to pick up S. We got invited to swim. You wanna go?
H. Hmm sounds nice itís really hot out, you wanna go?
W. Hmm maybe. It is really hot
H. Well if not I think Iím gonna hit the shower and check out the pottery shop around the corner
W. (Voice changes forum upbeat, happy and content to a little irritated and like WTF). Uuuhhhh ok? I guess what are you gonna do)
H. Well swimming does sound nice too
W. Ok Iíll talk to (family) and see if they still want to
H. Ok well if I donít answer Iím in shower


Call pretty much ended there. It was my first stab at attempting to actually GAL

also when she called. I let her call go to voicemail then called back about 5 min later
79 858 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 11:02 PM
Jb - What helped me accept "Believe none of what they say and half of what they do" is trying to come up with the opposite conclusion from what I hoped was the truth.

Some of the below responses sound tongue-in-cheek and obviously they could be completely false, but my point is valid - I can come up with an explanation that is different from yours.

Originally Posted by Jb2019
She still uses my debit card some
Cake-eating (money)

Originally Posted by Jb2019
she hasnít been saving money even though she would have to so she could afford a divorce
Denial of financial reality

Originally Posted by Jb2019
over the past few days sheís been asking if i want to go with her to see a movie with one of her friends, or out to eat with one of her friends
Friend zone, let him down easy

Originally Posted by Jb2019
told me where she was going and who with when i didnít ask anything about it
Diversion - throw him off the scent

Originally Posted by Jb2019
bought me something i would like for my birthday
Friend zone, let him down easy

Originally Posted by Jb2019
trying to get me to talk to her family more (not about anything going on between us, just general conversations)
Friend zone

Originally Posted by Jb2019
still has us as married on facebook
Technically true, don't want to deal with changing status then having to explain to everyone in her life what is going on

Originally Posted by Jb2019
is giving me until the end of the month to move out when she could just tell me to leave now
Friend zone, let him down easy

Originally Posted by Jb2019
was looking for her ring
Pawn shop?

Originally Posted by Jb2019
has been depending on me to make sure she gets up on time (her job is depending on it, if sheís late one more time sheís fired)
Cake-eating

Originally Posted by Jb2019
instead of going ahead with the divorce process sheís been putting it off and spending money on shopping and drinks and other things
Denial of financial reality

Originally Posted by Jb2019
She really canít afford to not have me there financially or cleaning/taking care of the house wise.
Denial of financial reality

Let me give you a crazy example of this. I turned 40 in May. My W had her "college friends" coming to visit and was setting up spare beds. I swore she was going to have her brother come instead, to "protect" her in case I flipped out when she BD'ed me. People thought I was paranoid. Instead... 4 of my close friends surprised me, she had arranged for them to have a weekend bash at my house. It was very thoughtful and a great weekend. Then... a month later, she BD'ed me, and surprised me by having her brother come to the house to "protect" her in case I flipped out.

So... she was nice to me on my birthday. That doesn't mean squat. Your W can still care for you a great deal and still want a D.
39 680 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:48 PM
crd - Good on you for analyzing how you could have approached it differently. We all make mistakes, mistakes are learning opportunities.

Can you please add a signature to your posts? I can't remember if D is filed, or if you are just separating for now.

It is entirely reasonable to want to document the financial, property and custody approach prior to actually separating. Bring it up next time in mediation. Also think about what level of documentation you require, and how much you trust your W to hold to the agreement. Your W may have a different idea of what "documenting our approach" actually means.
16 191 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:47 PM
The past few weeks I have replied very briefly or not at all. But yes youíre right LH, I gotta keep it that way. Will be focusing on that next. Thanks man.

On another note, feeling good lately! Everythingís going really well for me besides my sitch. I have a day here or there where I think about W and have feelings of anger. But the majority of the days I just focus on myself, son, new friends and new hobbies. Life goes on haha.
74 1,907 Read More
Surviving the Big D
Yesterday at 10:21 PM
Ballast, I know that what you are feeling is real, even if what you had was not. But, wow, you're only 34 years old. I don't say this to make you feel bad but in hopes of slow you down. You're only 34 but already divorced twice. You have a very young child that needs your attention and doesn't need distractions or to start forming bonds with other mother type figures that then disappear from her life. There is a reason they say to take care of yourself first and not date or for sure seriously date someone for at least a year post D. That should be your focus here. It seems like you are reaching so fast for anyone who will fill a void for you. You don't need someone to make you whole, rather you should become a great person that then someone else can only enhance - rather than require. You're so quick to jump to replace someone in the R role. I can only hope you'll now just take a break from all of this to work on you. You can have a great life without a GF. Do that for a year or two and you'll still only be 36. Heck, I know many people 36 who are never married. There is no rush for you to find someone. Use this as a learning experience.
42 534 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by LH19
Give me examples of actions that say otherwise?

Youíre not moving out are you?


She still uses my debit card some, she hasnít been saving money even though she would have to so she could afford a divorce, over the past few days sheís been asking if i want to go with her to see a movie with one of her friends, or out to eat with one of her friends, told me where she was going and who with when i didnít ask anything about it, bought me something i would like for my birthday, trying to get me to talk to her family more (not about anything going on between us, just general conversations), still has us as married on facebook, is giving me until the end of the month to move out when she could just tell me to leave now, was looking for her ring, has been depending on me to make sure she gets up on time (her job is depending on it, if sheís late one more time sheís fired), instead of going ahead with the divorce process sheís been putting it off and spending money on shopping and drinks and other things..there has been more stuff but that is all off the top of my head, i know itís a lot to read. She really canít afford to not have me there financially or cleaning/taking care of the house wise. Today she said we need to discuss living arrangements then said she needs to know what my plans are and that i need to let her know these things
39 680 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 09:47 PM
So had a bad night last night. We'd agreed that last night I would go out, she would stay home, and tonight she goes out and I stay home. I went out with a mutual friend (male, reliable) for a happy hour and then a college alumni event that happened to be at a restaurant a half block from my house. Got home at 9:30 PM or so, no issues. W shared some stories from the evening (nice! she chose to converse on her own).

Problem was when she said that she found an apartment and said that she could move in August 1st. She made it sound like she'd essentially signed an agreement and this was contrary to the discussion we'd had the night before (that we would make no large financial commitments without running by each other and that we wouldn't move out prior to documenting our property and financial separation approach along with custody with our mediator). I have intense anxiety about this whole thing because I'm worried that she will do something that she feels is justified and then I'm left either just taking it or going the litigation route. Anyway, I don't think that I used the wrong words with her (no cursing, no accusations, no "kitchen sink" items) but my tone was terrible, accusatory, and she got upset and stormed out. My reaction definitely fit with her narrative that I'm negative and probably came across as controlling.

So, what I should have done is to say "It sounds great that you found a place that works. This is a lot for me to digest, it's late (we have an agreement to not have serious conversations after 9 PM), and I've had a few drinks - can we talk about this tomorrow? I feel like there are some open items we need to work through before signing anything". Obviously I can't go back and do it the "right" way but I did apologize this morning, explained that my reaction was not what it should have been. W thanked me.
16 191 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by unchien
crd - Re: trust building. The October documented plan was a great start, but in real life things are not that concrete and easy to implement. Simply saying what you will do, then doing what you said, is a great way to start. "I will pick up D3 at 4pm" - be there on time.


Yep, will do. I follow through on my commitments but not always 100% - maybe I didn't text as soon as I got to a friend's house. Interpretation is that I don't care rather than an honest slip. Anything less than 100% is unacceptable with W. But no excuses, and no reason to give up, even if we don't have a relationship.
Originally Posted by unchien
You've also mentioned your W complained you always put your needs first. Do you agree with her, or find some grain of truth in what she says?

Whether or not it's fair or unfair for her to distrust you, or accuse you of selfishness, I think there is value regardless of the outcome of your MR to find the truth in what she says, and think about what you can change for your future relationships (including R if that opportunity arises).

I absolutely agree with her that the examples she cites could be seen as me just doing what I want. Where we disagree is a) in the why and b) whether I always do it or is she ignoring the bigger picture. As to "a" she says that I'm a narcissist who doesn't care about her. The (well, my) reality is that I did all kinds of things for her, asked and unasked, and never got feedback as to what was valuable vs what wasn't, which areas where I resisted and she didn't care vs. areas where she was really upset. So, she could say that she wants to eat Thai tonight and I could say "eh, I had it at lunch, why don't we do Mexican" and she could think (but not say) that it's an example of me not caring about her, that she wants to eat healthier and I just think about what I want. But if I say "hey, sure, I mean, I had Thai for lunch but I love it so fine, let's do it" it's not noticed.

Between October and shortly after the D announcement I yielded to her on just about everything unless I let myself get triggered (e.g. if she wanted me to take D3 to the doctor and I had done that last two appointments, she would say that her work is "higher stakes" than mine and I let that set me off rather than listening to her view and expressing how hurtful that comment is to me). Since detaching I know that she sees me as not caring as much about her because I'm not automatically deferring.
16 191 Read More
Midlife Crisis
Yesterday at 09:08 PM
Gerda,

You are truly going through more than you deserve for sure, but you are strong, and will get through. One day, heck one minute, at a time. The man you met. No coincidence. Listen to what he said. "You are a warrior, you aren't victim." Put on the armor of God, and you will get through this.

I agree with Job. I would recommend you do not provide any answers to inquiries from brokers other than to say it's not on the market at this time. That's really all you need to say. Otherwise you are just adding fuel to the fire.

(((Gerda)))

Your son is hurting, confused, probably angry. I think it's wonderful he trusts you so much to open up to you like he does. Keep the lines of communication open. Society in general is making our kids so confused about their sexuality. Anything goes. This whole generation is confused. Keep up the lines of communication, and the two of you will navigate this together. Perhaps exploring positive outlets to help him deal with his anxiety would help (exercise, etc.). Have you explored counseling with him? If you are near a university, often you can find counseling services that don't cost very much.

We are all here for you, and God is walking by your side. Reach out and hold His hand. Feel His strength. His love.

Grace
25 516 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 09:04 PM
The recent issue with timeshare with the kids really broke things for me. I'm still sorting out my feelings, anger is clouding everything. I would say I'm ready to throw in the towel but I know that is anger speaking and I need a little time for things to settle so I don't react to raw emotion.

The conclusion I reached last week is the same one I have today: I need to be much more vocal in MC, immediately, about my needs and what I would like to see change. Otherwise I am an idle bystander letting my W drive everything, which will not be productive towards meeting my needs.

I'm assuming I'll just know when I'm ready to throw in the towel.
62 954 Read More
Surviving the Big D
Yesterday at 09:00 PM
The girl I was dating went cold over night. It was literally like a light switch.

Her excuse for ending things was...Ö."I just know it won't work between us, I am truly sorry". No other explanation.
42 534 Read More
For Newcomers
Yesterday at 08:52 PM
Josh_T - 100% agree with the gift, I read that book a year and a half ago and didn't understand. I re-read it last month and I thought "this guy just explained exactly how I feel."
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