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A Message from Michele
Active Threads | Active Posts | Unanswered Today | Since Yesterday | This Week
For Newcomers
25 minutes ago
Thank you AnotherStander! I appreciate your support and guidance.

I struggle each day. This is not the man I have known for the last 28 years. I'm sad, but really angry that he has destroyed our future. We were financially stable for the first time in our marriage, we had plans for our family and our future. I can't be his friend, I can't even look at him at the moment.

He is definitely worried about my whereabouts and actions. He keeps bringing up things I've posted on social media. He asked why I put my phone down so quickly as he entered the room. "Did I sit in the bar or restaurant while I was out with friends?" So I know it is bothering him, but I don't understand why, when he doesn't seem to care.

He literally just called me as I typed this...... "just checking in, making sure we didn't need anything. How was your day....." I was calm and polite, not exactly friendly, and told him my day was "great". I'm not even sure I asked him about his.

I'm not sure how to act towards him for the next few weeks as we figure out living arrangements. I am staying busy, GAL. I could use some advice on how to proceed. I guess I am wondering, do I try to continue with LRT, or am I really in the after LR stage?

* I think it is ironic as I just remembered that his parents separated for a year after 25 yrs of marriage. They reconciled and have been together for an additional 30+ years. Their marriage is not great, but they chose to fight to save it. This is not giving me hope- just wonder if it plays a role into my husband's thinking and actions.
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For Newcomers
32 minutes ago
So about 18 months ago my wife declared that she no longer wanted to married "like this". She was referring to years of control, manipulation and emotional abuse by me.

Do you agree you've control, manipulated, and have been emotionally abusive? If so, can you give some examples?

I begged her to get into couples counseling with me, but she said she needed to be on her own, to heal and to understand the pain she was going through and would not prioritize the marriage.

So, has she been "abused" throughout the relationship? Have either or both of you ever gone to counseling to work through any issues within the relationship?

In July of last year she finally said she wanted to meet with her counselor where she dropped the bomb of having an affair (her 2nd one in 4 years). She said she wanted to give our marriage a shot. But she didn't let on that she was still talking with this OM and had also started an EA with another guy. Both men were from her high school past.

The MR doesn't have a shot as long as she continues to reach out to other men. The minute she started flirting or talking privately with some other guy........she barricaded her heart from having loving feelings for you. Nothing changes until she decides and adheres to NC with anymore guys.

Months went by, I continued to ask...and was denied. I continued to work, doing the things I hadn't done for her, help with the house, the kids, the laundry, the dishes, the lunches...I wanted her to know I had changed. The biggest thing of course were my responses to her.

Well how's that working for you? You want to do this for a woman who has told you she will not prioritize her marriage? From what I can tell, it's her that needs to make changes!

We began seeing a couples counselor who was really experienced with narcissism and control. I knew she'd feel validated and I would have to own my junk.

So which of you are narcissistic? Let me guess, she had no problem going to couple's counseling when it's you that is the focus of the M problems.

I am triggered by her phone every time it goes off. She is triggered by everything I do, even though she will tell me over and over I have changed. But she says that "she can't heal in this environment" so she needs to get out. But I notice that she's not trying very hard to get a full time job. She doesn't mind that I still provide the roof over our families' head and most of what we enjoy. I feel taken for granted BIG TIME.

Yep! And if you are so bad that it's driving her to all these men. it seems she would be finding financial resources (like full time employment) to get out.

Until I hear more about your abusive ways, I tend to think she is wayward. I'm not saying you don't have some stuff to work out. But, I will say that it is unusual to see a wayward W with an abusive H. It's not too unusual to see a WW accuse the H of being abusive, controlling, or whatever else she thinks will justify her affair. Hopefully, you will expound on your behavior, and then I can respond.

There is a rebellion. resentment (usually long term), loss of respect for the H, coldness, selfishness, deceit, and stubborn pride in the heart of a wayward W. There is a cold spirit about her, that sets her apart from other categories. Some have been known to neglect/abandon their own children. The H looks at her and wonders who she is, b/c she seems for foreign compared to the girl he married.

Okay, so currently I am just trying to get more information. In the meantime, don't repeat any of this to her or the counselor. Don't share the book. These tools are just for you.
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Surviving the Big D
40 minutes ago
You have taken your overthinking to a new level! Just chill. If you donít want what she wants, then graciously bow out. If there is a possibility you do, continue on. 3 months, my friend.

And you marrying another woman will not give your kids the experience of being with mom and dad. Your kids have a mom. It doesnít mimic that. Itís a completely different experience . Will they get a chance to see how their dad is in a relationship? Yes. Will they another adult present that cares for them? Yes. But you arenít going to recreate the mom and dad experience. And you donít need to be married because that doesnít make her ďmomĒ

Marriage or remarriage is a personal choice. I donít need it. Do I want it? I donít even know sometimes I hate that wasted the covenant of marriage on my douchebag ex who never gave a crap about me and was barely 4 years long. I had my daughter, but Iím talking about between a husband and wife. Maybe if marriage was a guarantee of fidelity I would be into it, but it most certainly is not.

Working in healthcare, I often run into domestic partnership issues. There can be a significant other of anpatient where they have been living together 20 years, but cannot make medical decisions unless they are designated POA. I think of those things. Legally, a partnership without marriage still that needs to be legally sorted.

Thatís my view on marriage. If you saw my post, I am finally thinking about that stuff. Itís the first time this stuff has become real for me. But still seems so far off. And I still tell M that I donít want him to go in the morning 😊. But thatís not me trying to lock him down. Thatís me expressing how much I love spending time with him.
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For Newcomers
1 hour ago
Hi everybody,

Iíve read a lot about the stages of an Mlc, curious what the veterans think of my situation.

I believe everything started 3-5 years ago when my wife mother got cancer. Over those years my wife has been obsessed with working out, new tattoos, partying with single divorced friends, flirting at bars, drinking heavily on weekends, spending like an animal - massive debt. I really had no idea about the debt but I did recognize the other stuff but never clued in. I feel like this was massive replay.

My wife didnít started her emotional affair until December 2018, I busted it in February before it got physical but based on an email I read my wife was in complete limerence.

She told me she didnít romantically love me after I ended her affair. She has since told me about her fantasy of living in same town while we raise our 3 children. I really donít believe her.

The last 2 months she has acted very depressed. She barely talks, has distanced herself from family and friends except for her best friend that is 2 times divorced.

Even though the bomb drop was 2 months ago I feel like she has quickly moved into depression/ withdrawal. My wife would have a very guilty concierge of all the damage she has done. She is also seeing a therapist but not regularly enough.

Could there be a chance she is in withdrawal?

She has never been angry with me, we still talk about kids, meals etc. But she has been more distant from children and very irritable with them. The kids are feeling her anger and itís upsetting.

I really hope things are progressing through the stages since I believe she has been going through this silently for years. She even said she has fallen out of love with me for last year or 2 which I donít fully believe.

She has rewritten history on multiple occasions. She tries to claim that she has never truly loved me since the start.
Reasons, she never took my last name - 16 years ago, she has a physical affair before we were even engaged, she has never been comfortable with my family. These are such ridiculous excuses.

Anyways thoughts on stages? Itís tough seeing her so depressed with withdrawn from everybody, even the kids.
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Midlife Crisis
1 hour ago
Profound. Enlightening. Thank you for this post.

Fear. It's time for me to examine that a bit more.

When did you feel your fear recede, DnJ?
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For Newcomers
1 hour ago
Thanks ready,
I will remember that if it comes back up.

Just remembered that when my wife had commented that ďweíre still marriedĒ,
I responded ďitís pretty much been an in-house separation for the last monthĒ.
She replied, ďIím trying to detach from youĒ.

Kinda crazy her saying that. Makes me wonder if she is reading something similar to DB.
47 983 Read More
For Newcomers
1 hour ago
Can you give some examples of the validation you gave her?

Iím struggling with how to come off as bright, cheery, and upbeat around the woman that is actively cheating on me. Iím able to pull it off often, but I fail to do it consistently and she knows me well enough to sense my mood when Iím unable.

If you have the mindset that you need to be bright and cheery to impress her feelings about you, then I think it could come across as a little fake to her. If you feel good about yourself and accomplishing some goals that have nothing to do with her, then maybe it won't be such a struggle. Feeling good about yourself is one of the reasons we promote GAL, working out, eating healthily, setting goals, etc.

Your life, your behavior/actions cannot be all about her. You cannot get good enough that will impress the WW to save the MR. Not after she's crossed the affair line. When all is said & done, it doesn't matter how much you clean house or cater to her won't change her heart. That's the trouble with some marriage books/programs out there on the market. They are trying to sell the idea that if you start showing her how much you care and basically try to do the things you should have done long before her heart turned cold, then it will draw her back. The reason it doesn't work, is b/c she has to respect him before her heart changes. Lack of respect is the heart of waywardness. And, before he can get her respect, he has to have a healthy dose of self-respect.

The saying that gets passed around the board......"Be a man only a fool would leave" misunderstood by a lot of H's who have a wayward W. I googled the definition of fool, and here's the results: (as a noun) a person who acts unwisely or imprudently; a silly person. (as a verb) trick or deceive (someone); dupe. (as an adjective) foolish; silly.

So.....either way you look at it, the WW seems to fit the description of a fool.
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For Newcomers
2 hours ago
Alison: that sounds very much like my dh, whereas Iíve always been a Ďlive in the moment, donít bother planningí sort of person, last year Ds2 and I went away and we bought maps on the ferry and changed our minds every few days, it was wonderful... This crisis has turned me into a planner! I prefer my previous spontaneous self I think. Things mostly turn out ok if you donít plan and sometimes those are the most memorable times, maybe I need to make the most of dh not being around given heís the one usually obsessed with the future and with planning smile

The socialising is not dating but just doing stuff with other new people. I work at home and itís super isolating so I need to organise social stuff I think. Iím not good left to my own devices. And meeting new people energises me, though I hate too much routine. Iím pretty good at chatting to random strangers (I just went to the pub and bumped into a random Irish geezer who bought me lots of drinks last time I was there, funnily enough he wasnít so friendly when I was there with my teen). So I think I need new people and structure in my life at the same time. I donít think this was what my life was lacking before, the whole GAL thing perplexes my IC because as he points out Iíve always had a very busy and full life. Maybe I even used that to distance my dh? I can see how my mum does that though Iím not as extreme as her. So Iím remaining open to new people, sticking with my friends and yet still reserving space for my dh, itís a juggling act. So Iím not sure Iím that similar to you FS in terms of socialising. I admire you so much though for organising your birthday bash! Thatís fantastic smile And Iíve realised celebrating is something none of my family (either birth nor with dh) has done well and is something Iím planning to do a 180 on. I started by organising ds2ís birthday shindigs and ds1ís birthday dinner, both memorable occasions. More of these to come. Though our 25th wedding anniversary is the next one. Awkward! Maybe Iíll organise a party with all our old friends anyway and hope dh turns up lol. Iíve realised that dh and I have been awful at seeing joint friends over the years, itís been my friends or some joint old friends but never truly joint new friends, Iíve been better at making new friends than him but heís tended to shun my friends until recently. His friends are long-standing but also socioeconomically inferior which is weird. On the one hand loyalty is good, but on the other how sad not to trust colleagues. With great power comes great isolation.

Iíve not read either of those books but love a good self help book, I even listen to a podcast where they live By The Book and give their verdicts, sadly they hated your recommendation FS! Iíve read a book with a similar title though which I loved...
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For Newcomers
2 hours ago
I know every situation is different. It's nice sometimes reading of happy endings, but in my case, I don't see it anymore with my WW.

I have given up on my WW returning or wanting to fix things between us. I wanted that, she didn't. Knowing we didn't even go to one MC session hurts even more, as she gave up on our marriage so quickly and easily

She has treated me like I never existed while she moves on in her life with AP.

The happy ending will be me moving on, being stronger and living an honest and fulfilling life on my own.

I don't think I will ever get married again. Maybe I might have a partner or something down the line, but right now i just want to heal and be happy with myself. I'm a good man and i know my value, so do others. I don't even hate WW, which is funny. I do still love her, however i did let her go and told her i wasn't going to beg or force her to stay if this is what she wanted. Maybe she never expected to get caught, but once she did, it was one way for her.
28 358 Read More
For Newcomers
3 hours ago
Originally Posted by Wolfman
I am considering moving back in and to the MBR. I just have to understand what that could mean to me financially. Thatís really what is holding me back is all that child support she could make me pay!

Is your plan still weekend dad? Would 50/50 parenting plan change the child support calculations?
28 436 Read More
For Newcomers
3 hours ago

Originally Posted by LH19
I think your guys number one problem is expectations. If you want to go then go. Just don't have any expectations that it will change anything. If you don't want to go then let them know why you don't want to go. Say something like "W we are not a family anymore. I need time to heal and move on and spending time with your family will delay/prevent this process right now. Make it clear that this is how you feel right now.

You guys also have to remember that your Ws are likely 2-3 years ahead of you in this process. They have mourned the end of the marriage but may not want to completely cut you out of their lives. You may also feel the same 2-3 years down the road. That is why they are ok being friends.
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
Originally Posted by Hurt213

Thank you for the input and thoughts AS.

The weird part about this whole ordeal is not sitting here on my couch by my self. Thats actually quite fine. Kids are sleeping after a great day at their grandparents with easter egg hunting and a nice lunch.

The weird part is doing all of this by my self for the first time. I have these conflicting feelings of her missing out on something that her children really had a blast doing - and thats really what it is, because its just emotions. Logically, I am well aware of why she is not participating, and thats fine. Just getting it down on "paper" here smile.

I am beat to say the least. My parents love their grandchildren a lot, but aren't exactly poster material when it comes to helping out. Basically they dont exactly "volunteer" to help with the children, and then from time to time, they will make some comment about how much they "take care" of the kids. My sister and I have long given up on that conversation. It just means, that on a day like this, I am all alone feeding, watching, playing and taking care of a 2 and 5 year old, meanwhile I am expected to be interacting in the social setting on par with the rest of them (who by the way are all in relationships, so they can take turns to take care of the kids, and being social at the table) - thats a bit draining, but yea, it is what it is.

I could talk, but my parents or well my mom is, stubborn and only has one perspective on life, her own. My dad, well he is conflict shy, and just pleases my mom, so it wouldn't fly, ever.

Heading to bed soon thats for sure laugh.

Dear God! I feel like I could have written this exact same post. Word for word. Everything is so eerily similar in my circumstance. Down to our mothers. I felt the exact same way yesterday and was so exhausted last night I couldn't function after getting kids to bed. On a positive note, we both made it through and hopefully it will only get better after each holiday passes with this "new normal" we are experiencing. Take care, Hurt!
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For Newcomers
5 hours ago
Found this while searching for another post. And wanted to repost it as a cautionary tale. Unfortunately, this story is completely true:

Originally Posted by Steve85
The earlier discussion in this thread about "success" (I know Nicole you were wanting success in R) related to our sitchs really got me thinking.

The movie "War of the Roses" came to mind. Success if D or R is if everyone comes out of it unharmed and healthy. While "War of the Roses" is an extreme fictional tale, it is cautionary in that those that do not take care of themselves can let things devolve to a level where things can escalate and people can get hurt.

Let me tell you the true story of Larry and Liza (names changed to protect the innocent. And the guilty).

These were dear friends of my W's and mine. We loved them and were named the guardians of their kids in case of untimely death to both of them. Liza and my W shared a special bond and considered each other the sister they never had. Larry was one of the sweetest men you'd ever meet, with an unbelievable tenor voice. He is the best singer I've ever personally known. He sang in a couple of quartet gospel groups.

Liza was raised in the same church as me. My wife converted when we were dating, and Liza was kind of hesitant because of her upbringing. She now belonged to Larry's denomination, but they were rarely there because Larry was always traveling with the gospel quartet.

We got together with these friends as often as we could. We watched their family grow, they watched ours grow. They were amazing friends, and we reciprocated. Though we lived an hour a way we both made special efforts to get together at least once a month, sometimes more.

Eventually Liza started to grow weary of the teachings of the denomination and her and Larry began studying with our minister. We'd watch the kids for them while they studied. Eventually Larry was converted and Liza and he began attending a congregation in their area. Larry gave up the gospel quartet singing as it increasingly took him away from worshipping on Sundays with his family.

Eventually Larry got involved with several guys from church (a preacher, elder and deacon!) to form a covers rock band. Larry's voice was incredibly similar to Steve Perry's from Journey, and their Journey covers were so unbelievable.

About the summer of 2005 things started to change. They weren't in contact with us as often. They were making plans with us as often. At the time we didn't think much about it as people get busy and time can go by.

At new years 2005 we were invited to their house with friends from church for a new years party. Liza seemed to be a bit distant to my wife and I. It was subtle so I kind of blew it off at the time. Chalking it up to the mix of people that were at the party. A couple days later I sent her, with my wife CC'd, an email saying how much we enjoyed the party and getting together with Christian friends where we didn't have to worry about the kind of activities that would go on at the party.

We never received a response. Which was strange. Again we didn't think much about it.

Larry's cover band were asked to be an opening act for a local Kansas concert and Larry wanted my W and I there! He called me that summer to set it up and get us tickets. (My W had to work the day of the concert so I attended alone.) It was kind of odd that Liza didn't handle this as she was usually the one to do so. (This was the summer of 2006).

I went and Larry rocked it. One thing you have to know about Larry was that he was a lifelong Type 1 Diabetic. Having grown up in a religious family his lifestyle had fallen away from that in his younger years, and his partying caused his diabetes to eventually cause him to go legally blind. Though he could see he couldn't see well enough to work (disabled) or drive. He was in a boot from an ankle break (just stepping down off a ladder broke his ankle) during the concert, but it was one of his really good days and his voice was incredible.

He mentioned at the concert that the band was going to play at one of the member's house on Labor Day, and he wanted us to come. I told him to call me with the details.

In August Larry called me to give me the details of the Labor Day party the band was playing at. I asked him how things were going. He said: "Things are going great with the band. Not so much with Liza and I." This was shocking news. He told me she had said she didn't want to be married anymore and that she wanted him to get an apartment near her and the kids.

I was devastated as I hung up the phone and told my W about it. She was perplexed. The next day she called Larry and told him that there had to be someone else, that this just wasn't Liza. Not someone must have been influencing her. Liza was such a strong Christian that she didn't even want her kids watching Chitty Chitty Bang Bang at our house because she was afraid it glamorized witchcraft! (I didn't agree with her on that but it was her kids.)

Larry began to investigate. He found emails between her and a male coworker. There were hints at "business" trips she had told Larry she was going on but they were trips with this coworker, non-work related. Larry was devastated when he called to tell me his findings.

He and his brother hired a PI, and that is when the evidence began to mount. She was rendezvousing with this guy often, mostly during work hours. By time Labor Day rolled around Larry was ready to confront her. He was being advised not to, to let the noose tighten more around her neck. He talked to my W and I for a longtime at the Labor Day party, which Liza wasn't even present at. A woman that 2 years prior wouldn't have missed a chance to hang out with us, and she wasn't even at her husband's concert.

That night Larry confronted her. She admitted everything with this new guy, that they were in love and were going to leave their spouses to be together. Larry's marriage effectively ended that night.

The stress of everything took a big toll on Larry. By time Labor Day rolled around his kidneys were starting to fail. By the end of 2006 he was on weekly dialysis. His ankle never would heal properly. And he was starting to have other effects from his diabetes.

As Liza moved forward with the D, her and the new guy bought a house and moved in together. She did end up getting fired as the company the worked for put 2 and 2 together related to the two of them missing so much work, and then getting married. By summer of 2007 the D was final, Larry was in his own apartment and Liza and the kids were with the new guy in their house.

Larry started a friendship with a woman at church and Liza was not pleased. Suddenly she had a "I don't want him but I don't want him to be with anyone else attitude". She began making Larry's life miserable related to the kids. Larry loved his kids, but remember, he couldn't drive. She refused to bring them over so he would have to go visit at her house, but he had to find a ride to do it. Luckily his friends from church were very good to him and though he had to bow to other people's schedule he would get to see his kids regularly.

Liza however continued to make things difficult. One of the kids was having a concert at school. Larry got a ride to it, but the stress of dealing with Liza got to him that night and he ended up collapsing at the concert and getting rushed to the hospital where he went in to ICU in a coma.

His female church friend was there as much as she could in the few days he was in ICU. Including the night Liza showed up. Liza ended up beating this poor women to a bloody pulp. When the hospital staff found her, they put the hospital on lockdown and security began looking for Liza. They never found her, she must have already left.

Larry never came out of the coma. (Typing that causes tears to well up in my eyes.) I honestly believe the stress of Liza's affair, leaving him, the D and her behavior afterward are what killed Larry. We miss Larry very much to this very day. Just this morning I was singing a song his quartet used to sing and my W asked me to stop, it made her too sad.

Liza and my wife do not talk. After Larry's death my W wrote her a long letter confronting her on several things she did. The theme of the letter was "this isn't you Liza! This isn't the Liza I knew and loved." She never got a response. That year at Christmas the Christmas card we sent her came back "Return to Sender". We haven't spoken to Liza since New Years 2006.

The point of this long diatribe is that this stuff has a real capacity to end lives. War of the Roses highlighted that in a comical, satirical way. But you don't have to look to far to see where this stuff can have serious health effects, and can cause one with compromised health to die. Larry lived about a year after his discovery of Liza infidelity. And while the A didn't kill him, Liza's spitefulness (probably rooted in her own guilt), I believe, did.

So success to me in this stuff is seeing everyone come out the other side, no matter the outcome, healthy. Both mentally and physically.
52 1,574 Read More
Midlife Crisis
5 hours ago
I don't know what's bothering my husband, he got the rages easily and he cursed his mother and father - "why don't they just die !"

My husband was always shy, timid but nice before this crisis. I can not believe the words I just heard.

He went to our apartment with me Saturday night, he was not angry with me, however on Sunday morning, when we drove, he lost his temper again, he yelled at the motorcyclist and drives like madman. Why he is impatient so easily ?

When my ex was going through his crisis and was depressed, he became a very impatient aggressive driver.

But the comment about wishing his parents would die? That's really bad. I mean, if he had a terrible childhood because of his fighting, he could choose not to be in contact with them. But to wish them dead is really extreme. Does he stand to inherit money from them? Perhaps he sees that as a pathway to further independence or his elusive happiness.

Also - if he seems really irrational - do you have any suspicions of substance abuse, early dementia or other brain disorder than could cause a change in personality?
21 977 Read More
For Newcomers
6 hours ago
Originally Posted by Monkey19
More confused than ever now. Heís finished with the other woman and is claiming MLC/breakdown, telling me he doesnít want the divorce and that he wants me to hold off applying for the Decree Nisi while he gets counselling to sort himself out so that he can fight for our marriage.

Don't forget he came to you just, a week ago, wanting to reconcile and then 2 days later was full steam ahead on divorce. So now he says he wants to reconcile again? Nothing has changed. He's still engaging in crazy behavior and you still need to protect yourself financially. I would suggest you tell him to seek out help but that you are going to continue with D proceedings to make sure you and the kids are protected.

Right now I donít want him back, Iím not sure I can ever forgive him for what he has done or trust him again.

Exactly, it's going to take SERIOUS EFFORT on his part before you can even think about trusting him again. And hollow promises are NOT serious effort, they are worthless coming from him.

Do I pause proceedings while I figure out if we ever have a future?

No. Stay off the roller coaster. Continue your course of action. It will take a long time for the D to go through, you can reevaluate later if he really is working on himself. And I mean WORKING, not TALKING. Words are dirt cheap.

Iíve no experience of breakdown/MLC so have no idea if this is just an excuse or what/how he/we get through this.

Don't believe anything he says. Believe his ACTIONS, and so far he's shown you no actions to indicate he's all-in on the M.
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For Newcomers
6 hours ago
Turbine The Subtle Art of Not Giving. A Flock is a great read. I stumbled across it 2 months ago, and I highly recommend it to anyone here.
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For Newcomers
6 hours ago
Good on you to stay focused on GAL, and awesome that you get to spend a lot of time with your daughter!

You answered you own question before asking it... You don't look for signs. Just GAL. By actively looking for sign, you are holding on to a rope that you clearly need to drop in order to progress in your situation.

You come off as GAL'ing in order to save your relationship, however your outlook should instead be focused on GAL'ing in order to save yourself regardless of the outcome of your relationship - see what I am getting at?

Mind reading into her emotions, holy cow thats some next level voodoo - best stay clear of that, and just be calm, content and upbeat, regardless of her emotional display.
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Surviving the Big D
7 hours ago
Oh I see.... we would say ďthe other halfĒ

Here the term Ďold lady/old maní is used for your parents. So if Iíd have been referred to as that, Iíd have probably decked her! Lol
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For Newcomers
7 hours ago
Sounds great on the feeling better Alison. What plans do you have to keep the momentum going ?
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For Newcomers
8 hours ago
Not at all Marc. Always loved the song, but never really knew the whole meaning myself. Man did it take on a whole new meaning. Especially about how outside influences can throw off our contention.When I got BD back in Oct, I looked it up, started playing and singing it around the house when the W wasn't home as a form of release.. I found it so resonating with my sich, (as im sure everyone else's here) that every single time I got to the part "Even if..Even if.. You don't love me anymore..." I would lose my $hit balling. It still strike a chord with me emotionally now, but im able to get through the whole song.

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For Newcomers
11 hours ago
I am trying to be lovingly detached, but sometimes, when the 'lovingly' part is not reciprocated, it feels like doormat. That isn't because I think I can win him back with kindness, but every now and then, it feels like my kindness is taken advantage of. Expectations. Not of R, but that he is capable of kindness back.

This puts into to words very clearly how I was feeling when H was here during his illness being waited on hand and foot. I wanted to be kind. I wanted to support him. I wanted to show him compassion. He is going through a terrible time and much of it isn't of his own making. In my heart of hearts yes, there probably was some expectation and pursuit in there. I of course have missed him and wanted him in the house and it was good to show him my changes and I was hoping he noticed them. He'll have picked up on my caring not being entirely altruistic, of course.

But at the same time, he was receiving care from me, and it was obviously hard for him to even summon up civility in return at some points, that that does make me feel taken advantage of - even though the kindness was something I offered and that he didn't really ask for.

It is a tangle. I think you're doing it just right, FS. How is your FIL today?
93 1,205 Read More
Midlife Crisis
18 hours ago
jobs, thanks for sharing your situation.
Wow, seems like your spouse was really in it for the long run if not a permanent state of mind.
Hope mine recovers quicker as she is dragging our kid with her. For his sake.

As to the old memories and little things they complained about I also have them.
Seems once she has painted me as the bad guy, she will try to find anything that sticks to support her theory.
Another thing my IC told me is not to pay attention to those things they say. They are lies, not the real issue.
They are - most of the time- in the throws of another fantasy love life (affair) and will say anything.
The IC actually told me he laughs inside when he hears spouses complain about the way their partner combs their hair, cause he knows they have lost love and respect for that person and are most likely in another love.
25 339 Read More
For Newcomers
20 hours ago
Hope everyone had a great Easter! My day was pretty good, washed and cleaned the truck to get it ready for trading in tomorrow. Then just sat outside for a few hours and had a few drinks enjoying the wonderful Florida weather we had today.

Now I'm just relaxing a bit watching TV. The W was going to give me the car tomorrow during the day to take the dogs to the vet, she was supposed to drop it off in the morning after work, well then I get a text from her at 10pm saying she wanted to come by and do laundry. Guess she missed more work (she's been missing a lot, but not my problem) so Im assuming she's gonna stay here tonight. I dunno, she walked in and didn't say much to me, started her laundry then went into the guest room. But I guess tomorrow morning I'll get up and take the dogs to the vet, then later in the evening I'll be going to pick up my car and get rid of my truck. Pretty excited for that, things should start getting better now.
55 1,572 Read More
Surviving the Big D
20 hours ago
I had such a great weekend. M and I had a special date last night. I wonít give the details, it was a first for me, and a lot of fun. We were home by 1am ( late night for us) we slept until 10:30Am which I never get to do ( up a few times to tend to dog though. Then I arrived for Easter dinner at his house. His bro, his wife, her sister and mom were there ( and of course his mom) dinner was delish. I stayed until almost 9. I have to say, it feels so good to be included in the family stuff as his girlfriend. I never really made it to the point of holidays with the family with anyone but my ex. I always felt like some dirty little secret with other guys, like I wasnít good enough to bring home to mom. Itís such a nice feeling

I made a joke to him and asked him if it was like being with another woman when he Felt my top half. I was laying in his arms and he said ďitís just like being with you, because itís whats in here and here that makes you you ( pointing to my head and my heartĒ he is such an amazing man. How lucky am I?

I havenít really thought about the future with us. Iíve started to. I wouldnít let myself get ahead of myself like my old MO. But coming up onto 8 months I am beginning to think about it. I think Iíve known I had no future with any other guy Iíve dated. But with him, I feel one. Will we ever live together? I donít know. It gets complicated with kids and homeowner ship and the such. But I would love to wake up with every morning and go to bed with him every night. And come home to him after work. One day I would really want that. But he still makes an effort to kind of not let his son know our status. But I think his son does know, actually. I also havenít lived with anyone in 11 years. Thatís a long time. Marriage I doubt will be on the table. His scars might have been too deep. Mine were for a long time and I was totally closed off to it. I am not anymore, but it isnít a necessity to me. We arenít having kids and We arenít religious We donít talk about future plans like that. We just let our relationship flow. And itís flowing beautifully. I think we even think of my dog as our dog. He offered to help me fix my lawn up and said he would mow it, he just canít commit to every week because he has his own. I said I wouldnít let him do that. But to even offer that? Very kind.

Anyways, Iíve seen my daughter once this week. Iím excited for her to come home tomorrow. Although she wants one of her friends to come over after school. And she will be here until about 8 pm. Sheís all about the friends now. Which I am happy about. I like to see her thrive with her friends. But I miss my baby girl!

If you have actually made it through my rambling journal, Hays off to you! So many thoughts going off in my head!
66 1,770 Read More
For Newcomers
21 hours ago
Vik, there's a lot going on here. I'll start with the parents.

I'd say the best thing for you to do is NOT MEDDLE with their relationship. If her parents come to see her that is between her and them. If they ask you anything about your relationship you kindly and firmly say to them, "Thank you for your concern. I appreciate you wanting to help, but I think right now it is best for me that I keep some of the details between W and I private. I hope you understand".

Stick to that. Do not draw them in. Do not pretend they are your allies, and do not treat them as the enemy. You may need to be a broken record and repeat your stance.

If W asks you to relay messages to her parents take a similar stance. "W, I understand your parents being here is a stress to you. I think the best thing I can do is step back and allow you to manage your relationship with them. I don't wish to be in the middle".

Regarding childcare and exposing your child to OW - these will require conversations with W and I'm not caught up on your sitch enough to know how to best advise. When in doubt - do nothing and step back.
85 1,250 Read More
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