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A Message from Michele
Active Threads | Active Posts | Unanswered Today | Since Yesterday | This Week
For Newcomers
2 minutes ago
HopeCA, that sounds really hard.

Is it any comfort to think that it was almost certainly harder on you than it was on your daughter? Both of my kids clung and cried like that when I left them with family or the childminder, and they were always fine 5 minutes afterwards. She loves spending time with you, she loves spending time with her daddy, and yes, in that moment she didn't want to let go of you - but she's only three. She'll have been okay. She probably doesn't remember you all living together. I know that's hard, but it's probably better to separate your own feelings from hers in that situation. Anger and grief and sadness is okay. And loving detachment will come and go.
8 206 Read More
Surviving the Big D
20 minutes ago
I think you just need to be true to yourself Juju and make sure you keep your eyes wide open. It is completely possible to find someone you like on the first date. I liked all eight guys that I went out with but was only REALLY attracted to one which happened to be the seventh guy I met face to face. Am I banking on him to be a forever love? Not exactly. I honestly am not thinking that far ahead because I think that is what gets me into trouble. I’m just taking one day at a time and enjoying his company. The last time I did the OLD thing, I dated three different guys for six weeks at a time but only one at a time... like you, I can’t read five books at once and I don’t want to. It’s too much work. And...just as you don’t necessarily want to grab onto the first guy you meet, you also don’t want to eliminate him because he is the first guy you meet. My XH was the fourth guy I met and we lasted 14 years. There are no guarantees in life. We could all die tomorrow. Do what makes you happy today and worry about tomorrow....tomorrow. Pay attention to that inner voice...and have fun!!! We deserve it after all the SH*T we’ve been through. (((HUGS)))
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For Newcomers
31 minutes ago
IHS is out of the question.

It’s either make a stand in my home or propose a separation plan. Or file myself.

I know I need the sep plan to be a good transition to divorce because I may bail out soon. I agree W is showing no initiative to change. We had 1 MC session that threw her off a bit. I’ll see next session or two where she’s at. If I’m still the abuser and completely at fault... whether it’s true or not this M is dead and we should D.

It’s hitting hard today while we play family with the kids. Everything is great except for us. I thought I was over the grief part but it’s hitting hard.
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For Newcomers
41 minutes ago
Need Suggestion please:

Wife messages today saying "Daughter's birthday is in early August. Need to start planning in case you want to throw a party and invite people".

Now if I throw a party, all people who are going to come know about our situation (not that she is having affair) but we have issues and she had decided to leave the house and leave the marriage. She is not in contact with any of those people now. Does not talk to anyone. I usually go to all the get togethers and parties and sometimes take my daughter along as well. I am in contact with all our friends here in the area.

If the party happens, it will be really awkward as everyone know about our situation and me and my wife do not talk much or I should say not at all other that stuff related to our D.

Not sure how to respond to her message and what will be the right approach.

In my heart, I really don't want to throw any party. I was thinking that we (me and wife) will go out for dinner and that is it.
And next day, I was planning to take two days off and travel with my daughter (Just me and my daughter) to a waterpark resort and enjoy with her.I don't want to be doing anything with my wife where my heart is not.
But again, I want to do what should and needs to be done and not what my emotions ask me to.

So, would appreciate if all the vets can help me with this situation and guide me on what should be the right way to handle this.
38 1,071 Read More
Midlife Crisis
1 hour ago
Oh, Nyla, I am grieving for you. (And thank you for the tears on my last response, you should see my tears in writing it!)

My son is the same as your daughter, and same age.

He completely transformed when his dad went crazy. He was eight years old. Then he became a school refuser in 7th grade, missed 75 days of school. Shoplifting and many other things. The key was to keep the lines of communication open. Make sure she keeps trusting you and sees your strength and your ability to forgive. My son is my cross, but I am carrying him while he carries his own cross (that's a heavy load!), and he doesn't even know that he is carrying one or why or how, let alone see any meaning in it.

Tell her you love her constantly. And tell her that you respect her fire and her anger and her very clear sense of right and wrong, and that her morals will make her a great woman. Keep validating who she is -- because she is totally right, she is seeing things very clearly, like Huckleberry Finn choosing to go to hell if that's what he had to do to free Jim.

But tell her also that when she is ready to start thinking about forgiveness, that it will free her, that she doesn't want this terrible lady to change who she is or make it impossible for her to ever see her dad again. But that she can take as long as she wants to think about that, just to know that that freedom is out there one day for her.

DnJ and Peacetoday gave great advice. I would like to add to that -- show her some movies and get her to write. Show her "Good Will Hunting" and "The Four Hundred Blows" and "Ferris Bueller's Day Off." Let her see that adults do some crazy stuff and kids can't change that, even if it hurts them deeply. If she likes to write, have her write her feelings in poetry or work on a film script. Or have her write a short story about a girl just like her, tell her to use any details she wants and fictionalize or don't fictionalize what she wants. Teens love to write when given the chance to write from the heart. If you want, I can even send you some ideas if you tell me if she wants to write poetry or fiction or a screenplay. I am going to paste some below that I found on the internet, for you and her to do together. Give her a really beautiful journal and a really gorgeous set of pens.

Let her know that one day she will be able to know her dad again and that it will be better for her to have her dad in her life, even if she can't respect or understand his choices, even if they hurt her and he doesn't understand that. But that for now it's okay if she feels differently. If you are Catholic, I can recommend a great book I just got my daughter that helps kids process divorce issues without condoning divorce in any way.

If you are a religious family, I can also recommend some prayers she can say for herself and for her family and yes, for her dad.

Here are some prompts I found that look good, for you to do together if she wants. You can add some that relate to your family situation once you get the hang of it. I couldn't do this with my son but we go on walks at midnight or 1 in the morning, whenever he asks me, and that's when he likes to go, and we talk about things like this. But with a girl I bet she would write about it with you -- in a journal or in letters.

I can send some for creative writing if she would write about her life in poems or stories/scripts. Once DnJ wrote a letter to my son, which I gave to my son, and it was really powerful. I can do that for her too. My parents split up when I was her age, and I learned rage then, and it haunted me until about five years ago. I understand her very well!

((((NYLA)))))) -- and even more, (((((Nyla's daughter)))))))

1) Both: What is your favorite season of the year? What is it that makes this stand out from the others?
2) Both: If you could be any animal for a day, what would you choose? Why does this animal appeal to you? Can
you think of any down-sides to being this animal?
3) Parent: Describe your favorite memory from school (around age your child is now).
Child: Describe the best day of school you have ever had and why.
4) Parent: Were you ever bullied as a child? If yes, share your experience and how it made you feel. If not, share
about bullying you witnessed in school.
Child: Have you ever been bullied at school? If yes, share about your experience and how you feel about it. If not, share about bullying you see happen at school.
5) Both: Describe your favorite memory from the last year.
6) Both: “The best thing about being ME is: ______.”
7) Both: “The hardest part about being ME is ______.”
8) Both: What would you do to help the poor if money was not an issue?
9) Parent: Describe the day you brought your child home from the hospital. How did you feel?
Child: Describe your earliest memory.
10) Both: What is one belonging that you will NEVER throw away?
11) Both: Describe the part of your current home that you love the most.
12) Both: Describe the part of your current home that you dislike the most.
13) Both: Close your eyes and imagine the most relaxing place possible. Where is this place? Describe how it looks,
feels and smells. Is this a real place?
14) Both: What is your favorite food? Can you explain why you like it so much?
15) Both: “If I received $1000 to spend on anything I wanted, I would buy ___. Here is why: ___.”
16) Both: What is the thing that scares you the most? Can you explain why?
17) Both: “My favorite memory with you is _____.”
18) Parent: “My biggest wish for you is _____.”
Child: “My biggest hope for my future is _____.”
19) Both: “The number one thing I would like to change about myself is: ____. Here is why: ____.”
20) Both: What do you imagine your life will be like in 5 years?
21) Both: What do you imagine your life will be like in 10 years?
22) Parent: “For me, school was _____.”
Child: “For me, school is _____.”And more!
23) Parent: “The hardest part of being an adult is _____.” Child: “The hardest part of being a teenager is ____.”
24) Both: The best advice you have ever received.
25) Both: The thing I think I am best at is ______. How do you know?
26) Both: Do you believe in ghosts? UFOs? Why or why not?
27) Both: The nicest thing anyone has ever said to you. How did you feel when you heard it?
28) Parent: Is there something you wish you had done or tried as a teen? What is it and why?
Child: Is there something new you would like try, but haven’t? What is it and why?
29) Both: Write about a time you made a mistake and tried to hide it. How did that work?
30) Both: Write about a time you made a mistake and were honest about it. How did that work?
31) Both: What three items would you want with you if you were stranded on a deserted island?
32) Parent: What was dating like for you in middle school and high school?
Child: What is your experience with dating? Are you happy with your experiences?
33) Both: What is your favorite song of all time? What do you think about when you hear it?
34) Both: If you were to get a tattoo today, what would you get? If you would not get one, explain why.
35) Both: My questions for you about sex and sexuality.
36) Both: My answers to your questions about sex and sexuality. (It is fair for both of you to include “I am not
comfortable answering that question” in your responses.)
37) Both: Describe yourself in five sentences. Explain if desired.
38) Both: Describe the other person in five sentences. Explain if desired.
39) Both: What worries you most about getting older?
40) Parent: What do you most hope your child will learn to do before they are on their own?
Child: What do you need help with learning before you move away from home?
41) Both: If we could go on a road-trip together, where would you want to go first? Second? Third?
42) Both: What would you like to be an expert on? Describe what and why.
43) Both: “Sometimes it is hard for me to tell you _______.”
44) Parent: “When I was your age, my hero was _______. This is why I admired this person: ____.”
Child: “My hero is ________. This is why I admire this person: _____.”
45) Both: My very favorite meal is _____. Tell why you love this so much.
46) Both: What is the one thing you need to do or see every day? Why?
47) Both: “My favorite thing to day dream about is ______. Here is why: _____.”
48) Both: One activity you would like to do together in the next month and why. (Start making some plans!)
49) Both: The house hold chore you hate the most and why.
50) Both: Draw me a picture of something that makes you feel happy.
51) Both: Draw me a picture of something that makes you feel sad.
52) Both: Describe your favorite thing about the other person.
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Surviving the Big D
1 hour ago
Thanks Ginger / JujuB

I have the facts on the outburst. S24 had been chatting with 20S when she perhaps teased him about us wanting him to move out. He over-reacted and confronted me.

We talked about it again this afternoon - both apologized - he knows that while I want him to be independent as he does too that he is also welcome here.

It's all good. Hurray for honest communication.

Originally Posted by JujuB
I was kind of concerned about the comment “which she gets away with because she’s not family” comment too. Was that meant affectionately or do you think she was out of line?
What I meant is that I'm so used to walking on eggshells both around S24's mother and to a lesser degree him that it's odd when someone like B - who is used to a loud family and who is an "everybody's mom" speaks up. It's generally taken in good humour all around.
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Surviving the Big D
2 hours ago
Hey don

I don’t feel bad at all. I notice what you said as well and my mom has been telling me not to get exclusive with any one. And that was my plan going in.

The only difference is that last time, I initiated and this time he initiated. I initiated because I created something in my mind based on his profile. Last time my first reaction when I met ex bf was “nope” but then I gave him a few dates and I liked him for having been through a crazy situation like me. I was still healing and ex bf had so many red flags that showed early and I kept saying - he’s a great dad. Not realizing how many great dads there are out there. My friends did not like him when they met him. My friends are very loud and brazen and tell it like it is themselves and they did he was way too negative and rude.

This time around, I liked the guy when I saw him and whenever we talk I am literally smiling during the whole conversation. We do seem to have a lot more similarities and i suspect we follow the same love language. I like the sound of his voice and I love the way he communicates with me. I love the way he talks about his kids and what their dynamic seems to be (he’s more laid back like me). He seems to be so positive. I do know that there is so much more to know and discover. I know that you have to date a while before you discover flaws. I know that we put masks on in the beginning. That we are revealing our true selves. That it takes a while. That you only get a limited time of infatuation. But if I date others, I can’t mentally connect with him. It’s too much. It’s like reading 5 books at once and I can’t get into it or read it with depth and appreciation.

I think I am pretty selective about who I message though. I read through every profile good, bad, and crazy.

First impressions do mean a lot in life. . There might be great guys out there but if they message me a generic “hi” or “hey there” or just a mass produced profile of themselves they are not going to get noticed in OLD. I don’t know why they pay for something and then put no effort in. Would you choose to interview someone that sent a personalized cover letter about your band And had an outstanding resume or just a guy that had a regular old resume? You would pick the guy that had the cover.

I might be making a bad mistake again. I know that too though.
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For Newcomers
2 hours ago
Please start a new thread. I am locking your thread because you have over 100 replies.
106 2,397 Read More
For Newcomers
2 hours ago
Please start a new thread. I am locking this one as your replies are over 100.
106 1,668 Read More
For Newcomers
2 hours ago
Thank you everyone for kind messages and encouragement.

So - Friday was weird. Not awful, but odd. He started by wanting to talk about how uncomfortable he felt at the prospect of taking Youngest to a school event later that day - there was a loose plan that H would take him as Friday was his usual day, but I was willing to come along if it was what Youngest wanted. H spoke at length, and I validated, about how uncomfortable he was thinking that other school parents knew our business. I haven't spoken to anyone and don't really have school mum friends - but I validated anyway. We went on our walk and it was okay - in that he was polite, if a bit withdrawn. We talked about finances - he wants to pay half of Youngest's childcare costs and a third of the mortgage, which seems very fair to me given I earn more than he does. So we agreed that for the time being. We also talked about Youngest's birthday, he said he'd take Youngest to see his family at their home, and we'd split costs for the party and presents 50/50 and that was more than fine with me, so that was good too. We talked a bit about therapy - he'd found a therapist, and he talked a bit about what he wanted to get out of it. He wanted to repair things, but said he didn't know what his contribution was towards what had gone wrong, and was hoping the therapist would tell him that. I said I knew I had work to do on taking care of my own feelings and valuing his wants and needs, and I was open to hearing other things that I hadn't thought of. I said I was worried that I'd done the work of thinking and looking inwards, and that he hadn't, and that when I've tried to ask him for changes - like an end to the sarcasm and verbal abuse - that it either made him angry, or he got defensive, or he blamed it on me, and none of that made me feel that he was in a place where hearing any of that from me in a therapy room would make any difference. I could see some changes - he talked about being hurt, and struggling with his anger - and that was new, and I've not heard him be open about his feelings like that or take responsibility for them. So in the end I decided I would go to therapy with him, and he emailed the therapist and asked for an appointment.

The weird thing was - well - I felt little. Not happy or hopeful or relieved. It was difficult to make conversation with him. I tried asking him a little about his work, which just unleashed another torrent of moaning and complaints. I tried chatting to him about my work, and what the kids had been up to, but he didn't seem interested. It was... well, boring. I couldn't think of a single thing to talk to him about other than practicalities, and we'd covered those pretty amicably. We were a little affectionate with each other - held hands a little - but he felt remote, like a stranger, and I was struggling to remember what we used to talk about. I enjoyed the walk, but hand on heart I think I'd have enjoyed it more with a friend, with the kids or alone.

I went to take Youngest to the school event, and he stayed in the house and made tea. He wanted me to tell Youngest that he had a work meeting and couldn't go, and I said I didn't feel comfortable lying. In the end Youngest didn't ask, and we had a nice meal together.

It all went a bit south in the evening - he'd bought some beer and got a bit tipsy, and Eldest was awkward and difficult and combative, I stuck to the agreement we'd made about boundaries and consequences, but he didn't - and approached Eldest with usual contempt and sarcasm. It's like he'd rather sneer and make a catty remark than say 'don't speak to me that way,' and I don't understand it. I went into the kitchen and said, 'I know this is stressful. Let's tackle this together the way we agreed. I'm on your side,' and he huffed and shrugged me away. His mood tanked further the more he drank and he started being very snappy and irritable. The dog jumped up and attacked some knitting that was near him, and I called out to him with urgency (I was trying to get his attention - not angry, just a bit louder than usual) but before I could ask him to retrieve the knitting, he was on his feet ranting and shouting. I stayed calm (both kids where there) and asked him to stop. He was ranting - saying I was attacking him and shouting at him. I said 'I just called your name, once,' and he said he wouldn't be blamed for the dog, etc etc - it was really crazy stuff. I asked him again to calm down. I said I just wanted to get his attention. I spoke really quietly and respectfully and he said I was shouting at him and telling him off. I know 100% that I wasn't. The kids witnessed all of this, which i regret. I didn't see any way of rescuing the evening.There was no convincing him. I said I thought I should call him a taxi so he could go home (he was past driving at that point) and that inflamed him so much he packed up his stuff and left there and then.

No contact since. I'm not upset and I wasn't really at the time - other than the fact the kids had to see him in that state and what could have been a pleasant family meal went south. I actually feel a lot of pity for him. I think he'd really really like to repair things with me, just as I thought I wanted to - but who he is right now I don't want, and I don't think he's capable of being someone that could have a relationship with someone healthy. He doesn't seem to enjoy normal family life (the normal noise and mess of kids on a Friday after school evening was clearly more than he could cope with) and if I'm honest, I didn't enjoy his company at all. He helped in the house - cooking and cleaning and hung a wash load out for me - and he was mainly civil until he started drinking - but it was like having a vaguely unpleasant stranger in the house. Not exactly a guest, but a distant and slightly annoying relative who had made themselves a bit too much at home.

My emotions now are fairly steady. I feel sorry for him. Really really sorry for him. He's in a bad way and he clearly isn't well. And I'm okay. I've been in a bad way, but I am recovering and better every day, and as soon as he started with his reactivity, I thought, 'ah no, I"m not sitting here and having this again.'

Charitably, I can see that he's still so afraid of being stuck in an awful marriage - as we were - that he's hugely, hugely reactive to the tiniest thing. Perhaps he doesn't want to go to therapy, he's just offering that because he doesn't want to get divorced, and he resents me for that choice. I have no idea. What I can see is that he has no capacity for humour or generosity or curiosity. The drinking on top of whatever mental health stuff he's suffering - stress, depression, anxiety - obviously makes him unfit for any real meaningful interaction. But even beyond all that - when we were out on the walk and the practical things I wanted to address with him had been addressed - the conversation was stilted, painfully awkward. Boring. There was just nothing much there. He's not really doing anything other than working, and brooding, and playing computer games. He's exercising a bit more, which I'm glad about, but he didn't really want to talk about that either. And in the evening, he kept getting on my nerves and I kept having to train myself to think kind thoughts about him (make excuses for him, deny the reality of who he is and how I feel about him now) rather than just enjoy his company or get on with my own evening.

It was a bit of an eye-opener, and that's no bad thing.

I doubt very much that he will pursue this therapist when she comes back and offers an appointment. That's probably no bad thing either. Today I can't really think of any reason, other than attachment to a memory of a long time ago, why I'd want him.

I think my priority now is myself, GAL, detachment and the kids. I haven't thought longer term than that. If he sticks to the financial agreement he made with me, then this can stand as it is. And if he doesn't, I have recourse.
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For Newcomers
2 hours ago
Hmmm if I were to engage in the mind reading I’m trying really hard to quit, I’d say your H was def trying to find out what you were up to. Unless this is the kind of thing you all do sometimes, that feels like might sense that you have other places to be at night and wanted to find out for sure...
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For Newcomers
2 hours ago
Thanks DV. Every time I start to feel like I will be ok something knocks me down. Today is my husbands day with our daughter, and I just ran into them at the grocery store. She is only 3. She was so excited to see me and of course thought it meant we would all hang out together. She was clinging to me and asking to come home and crying. It was one of the lowest moments yet. My heart was breaking for her, and I just wanted to say yes of course, whatever you want. But I knew the best thing was to comfort her and let her know she will have fun with daddy and I’ll see her so soon. My h was quiet and impossible to read during the whole thing. He was trying to urge her on and I softly but firmly told him that this was hard for her, for us, even if not for him, and to give it a minute. I suspect he was uncomfortable and just wanted the moment to be over. I probably could have handled it better in regards to him, but I knew my daughter needed a moment. I could have left the dig out of it, but it was painful and I resent him trying to pretend it isn’t. I can’t imagine this part of all this ever not being awful.
I’m feeling angry at my H and just baffled that anyone would choose this path, inflict this unnecessary pain on our child and ruin our family. Im now trying to guide myself back to loving detachment, I wish I knew how.
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
Getting the key cut is outrageous, if he has actually had one cut. I don't know TBH, and it is unlikely he will tell me. I am going to turn the camera on the driveway back on just to make sure. I've worked out how to turn it back on without him being on the account. If he has gotten a key cut, I will be getting a new lock put in.

Yep, definitely falling for the non-viable scientist. We had our second date last night. Dinner, live comedy followed by drinks and dancing. We ended up spending the night together - we made it through one drink after the show. It was awkward at first, seeing him again. We have only met once + shared a ton of messages so neither of us were sure what the etiquette would be when we met again. But once we'd got over the initial awkwardness, it was like catching up with an old friend who you haven't seen in a while. The words flowed. It is very strange and I had to keep reminding myself that this was only our second date.

Anyway, H was supposed to have the girls overnight at his but I got a text last night saying if I was going to be late or away then could he have the girls at the house instead. He also needed me to take D12 to her theatre group at 10 as he was taking D9 to an all day netball tournament. For many reasons it made sense for him to stay at the house, and if I had not rushed back to take D12 then she would not have been able to go, but a part of me still feels like this is him trying to control my life.
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For Newcomers
3 hours ago
Ultimatums are never good. They push people into a corner, and people pushed in corners come out fighting. But it is also no good worrying about things that have already passed. Get up and brush yourself off (which it sounds like you're doing).

Alison, read back through your posts. There is so much less H, and so much more Alison in them now. You are looking forward and doing things for you. BTW - looking forward is not the same as looking away.

There are so many good films out now. I just took the kids to watch MIB. D12 is a huge Chris Hemsworth fan (so am I tbh :)).

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For Newcomers
4 hours ago
Originally Posted by Rooney
Hey Steve,

Just been reading your sitch and the wedding ring thing is right where I am.

She kept hers on post BD for a while but after a couple of months she went much colder on me (likely OM) and took it off. I still wear mine a) out of habit and b) to show my intentions to anyone else who is paying attention.

I’m starting to feel like it may be time to take it off but, whether W does or not, I believe in the sanctity of marriage and that it isn’t over until it’s over. Maybe that’s hopelessly naive and shows that I am still to attached, I don’t know.

Anyway, good luck, brother. Keep up the good work.


Thanks both for the advice. The wound is still pretty fresh so I think I'm just going to do what feels right until I have more clarity and a more level head. I'm not even one month in, WAW hasn't separated yet. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
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For Newcomers
4 hours ago
Quick update:

Just packed up all of our wedding and relationship memorabilia into a box. Really, really painful. So hard to look at the happy photos, putting myself mentally back into that tux. It was only two years ago.

I can't live in the past though and seeing it around the house every day would only drag that out. Empty shelves and walls are just as sad, just in a different way. Plenty of time ahead to fill them with my own adventures.

One day at a time.
19 345 Read More
Surviving the Big D
5 hours ago
I had a post all typed out earlier this past week but I just clicked X and deleted it figuring, what do I know? LOL. I'm still thinking that (what do I know) but also now wishing I would have posted as in it I pretty much called it - I said that I believed history would repeat itself and like in the past you'd grab onto the first guy you dated. Again, I'm just way different. What you are doing is not necessarily wrong. I just find it extremely interesting as I've got a few friends who have done the same. I just don't get it. I need someone who is beyond a match, outstanding, really catches my eye, is special, is "the one" not just the latest one or the one for this month or this year. I just don't see how you can find that the first time out - every time. Many of us try OLD for years and never find anyone but you do on the first time out - not once but twice. And you are not alone, as I said I have friends who have done the same. Yet I see OLD how some women are there for years. Then there are women like you who are on and off within a week. Others here have done the same. I don't get it - but just because i don't get it doesn't mean it's wrong or unhealthy or the like. I just don't want you to repeat what happened last time - yet it sure seems like you have a mode and a method and it's just what you do - you can't even stop yourself.

I guess the red flag I do see is it seems to be a lot about how he makes you feel. That for sure is different from me as I feel great about myself going in - I don't need someone else to make me feel that way. You seem to really, really like this guy - yet how can you even know him much if at all? And then all the other guys - poof / gone. I guess I'm even a touch frustrated as how can good guys even stand a chance if any guy who puts up a good first impression seals the deal just by being lucky enough to be the first guy the woman dates. That just happened to me with a friend of a mutual friend. She didn't want to date anyone, she claimed - then the first guy she dates she falls in love with. WTF? Some people can find a connection or a fit with just about anyone and then there are people like me who can only find a fit with a select few.

This post may be as much about me as it is about you JUJU and I really don't mean any disrespect or to make you feel bad. You are who you are. If you're good with that, I'm happy for you. You just seemed to clearly want to take a different path this time, to the West after always traveling to the East with guys in the past - yet within a mile down the road, you've turned the car around and are heading back East to your comfort zone and familiar territory. It's that which I'm trying to comment on as I would have bet serious cash that's what would happen - I should have just put my money where my mouth was and called it before it happened. We are who we are I guess and change is hard - I'm clearly at the head of that list. Regardless, I hope for the best for you.
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For Newcomers
6 hours ago


Remember the quote "believe none of what she says and half of what she does". As IH says above if she wanted to work on the MR she would show it through action. Uni, sorry to be blunt but your actions are still being driven by hope of R. I understand the hope for R but in most cases getting to R is taking DB actions that are counter intuitive. Looking from the outside your head is still stuck in the fog. The sooner you can get out of the fog the better for you. Sorry to be blunt, I know this is hard but I see a lot of signs of your actions being driven by hope of R. The hope itself is not bad but remember what the vets advice about the counterintuitive approach that works.

Stay strong U!

I agree. This takes time, a lot of time, and you'll have to go through a grieving process, because it is the end of your MR. The sooner you accept it, the sooner you can move to a place where you might be ready to see if you can start a new R with your W. What that R looks like is undetermined.

For example, even though my W is still here IHS, I have accepted that the old MR is gone. I dont think she believes me yet, when I have told her that during the last few times when she wanted to talk about the R. Because up until 3 months ago i was still trying to work on the R and she had left it 6 months even earlier than that.

Right now my goal is to be friends. (And yes I know I'll take all kinds of flak for that but I dont really care.) Everyone's sit is different. If it becomes more than that, I'll take that road when I get to it. But I cant think like that right now and i won't.

I know it [censored]. It's really unfair. But it's a problem that they have. We can be compassionate and empathetic, but this is a journey they have to take and we can only work on ourselves/kids right now.
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For Newcomers
6 hours ago
Working on myself - history vent Pt 3

When I meet W I severe depression. W slowly starts to help me pull out of it - make me see I am good person.

We are both very close to events of 9/11, we are lucky to be alive. First time W meets my M it is 9/11 and she is in full on meltdown. W experiences effects of my Ms meltdowns on me another time when we visit and M explodes. W has firsthand account- watchers as I get completely overwhelmed and pass out. When I come to I dont even know what happens except I find myself running away out the door as fast as I can. Eventually I come back to get W and we leave. Up until this point I had been trying to smooth over my family history. W jelps me to see I need to get as far away as possible.

Me and W move around a lot - try to find our place in life. Try living with F and his now W. This is a disaster - ends in my F screaming and yelling and threatening me in front of whole family, then trying to cover it up and make nice. We leave, find our own place, settle and start normal life.

I distance from both M and F and their toxic behavior which both refuse to accept.

My StF who we all loved gets cancer. Chemo and bills and hundreds of thousands of dollars later, he beats it. It nearly bankrupts my M and him - they remortgage the house. Cancer returns 4 years later. This time there is nothing they can do. M doesnt even seem to notice he is sick, us boys go down to stay with him for a few weeks. He dies 2 weeks later.

I try to support M emotionally during this but distance is too great and I am not equipped to cope or help.

W's father gets cancer not long after. I am very close to him - I help him during his struggle, but eventually he dies. I help W and her M cope as best I can.

My grandfather gets cancer and dies. My F goes into a spiral - i do what i can to help him.

M remarries once - lasts 2 months. M remarries again.

W's grandmother gets cancer. She is in a prolonged hospital stay. My W and i go and spend a lot of time with her even during the beginning of W's distancing. Even though we dont talk to each other, we talk to grandmother. She dies, W goes into depressed state

...part of the reason I write all this is because during one of our fights before BD, W yelled at me in a loud voice "I can't fix you!"

And she was right. She is right. All of the other BS she said aside about ILY and all the MBR moving or who gets what or moves where or whatever, while they are important issues, it's really necessary to do the deep work and see WHY things are the way they are.

I actually have more I could have written but in the interests of anonymity I've left out some very big events that I dont feel comfortable sharing - at least not now.

Thanks for the opportunity to vent. I feel a bit worse now but I think it was needed.
15 279 Read More
Surviving the Big D
6 hours ago
Ahhhh yes the huntress. Well i think the huntress might be thinking about marriage as well after conversations that came up last night.

She finally met some of my friends last night. I don't have a wide circle but these friends are an older couple (my parents age) and have known me, my XW and daughters since our oldest was born. My parents don't live close so over the years they have become like parents and grand parents to my daughters. We went out to their house, had a couple of drinks and sat on their back porch and just chatted. I thought things went really well. The Dr. is very opinionated and independent not judging with her opinions but doesn't filter for the sake of blending in or concerned about what someone thinks. So there were a couple of things that came up in conversation that I know isn't of popular opinion with my friends (religion for example) but since she doesn't know them wouldn't have put a filter on even if she wanted to. I hope that makes sense. When she first arrived they shook hands but when we left they gave hugs so I think it all went well. TBH I don't think my stand in mom would like anyone unless they agreed with everything she said and could be controlled but I digress smile

So after that we went out and had a good night but in the middle of the night the Dr. got food poisoning or caught a bug. I wasn't aware as she went and slept on the couch but when I woke up I found out. She said she went to the couch so I could sleep. I asked her if there was anything I could do or run to the store for her but she said "no". Since I knew she had been up most of the night I left earlier than normal so she could get some rest. I checked in on her later and she said she got sick 4 more times after I left. She promised her son she would take him to the water park today so she sucked it up and took him.

Kid meeting tonight at 5. I am not nervous at all and am really looking forward to it.
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For Newcomers
6 hours ago
Working on myself - history vent Pt. 2

(Apologies again for the length)

Age 12 +

M joins church along w StepF, gets immediately hyper involved. Forces us kids to be altar servants, sometimes in church every day for weeks. M starts idolizing priest as father figure. M starts intense pressure for me to be priest. Church "reassigns" 3 consecutive church officials after sexually abusing boys. One of my friends is one of the abused. I am on youth group trip when this happens - priest vanishes next day. No one talks about it.

StepF becomes the one normal parent. Teaches us kids how to function in practical real society. Married M partly because he loves us kids so much. We adore him. M overwhelms him often but he does his best to shield us from her full on breakdowns, which happen every other week or so. On average these breakdowns consume her, she swears, slams doors, breaks into our rooms, accuses us of things we never did. We learn to isolate and tune out these episodes, which come on in an instant and when they are over are immediately apologized for and we are told we are loved and she didnt mean it.

I develop hair loss problems from stress. Also develop extreme migraines. Am told by M these are phantom problems. F starts fighting more in court, does not give $ for CS for 2 plus years. F's now wife starts fighting with us kids telling F that her kids need the $ more - she gets cancer hospitalized, beats it and loses her house. F and his W move to another crime.infested area not far from M.

Living in this poor neighborhood we are subject to risk of drivebys and drugs, gang violence. I lose my young dog to animal abuser while I am at school one day.

M tells us kids F never wanted you during one of her episodes.

I get bullied at school starting right at D. I withdraw into small world, one friend or two both from work. I start liking a girl from work - immediatley afterwards M forbids getting involved w girls - i am going to be priest she says. I start working 35 hrs per week at 15 then 40 hrs per week at 16. Graduate. I join Navy, no money for college. F refuses to sign enlistment papers because his father did the same thing to him. I convince him - subconsciously I know I need to get as far away as possible. He relents.

When I join Navy I am 18 but emotionally stunted to about age 12. I am on ship for 4 yrs during Gulf War, including one deployment to Persian Gulf.

Great experience. Lots of travel. Would never take it away. But I also experienced PTSD from 2 incidents where we were called to search and rescue events. In one of them we pick up aircraft parts and remains of over 20 dead crewmembers of downed aircraft. Effects dont hit me until I leave Navy. I have insomnia - cant sleep for more than an hour or two at a time for 2 years, periods of severe depression, not eating, etc.

More to follow. Thanks for putting up with it - this is hard but necessary.
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For Newcomers
7 hours ago
I'd take the ring off and forget about her. Lots of advice here on wearing the ring to show your commitment. I think that's anti DB bc we always take about how old R is dead and how you don't want to be plan B and you don't want to look weak. Everyone's sitch is different, and I'm a bit more intense of a person, so when I finally started letting go I took the ring off. I haven't put it back on yet and we've been back together for a couple months now.

Last year I was right where you are with the ring and hoping every text would be from her. That's normal, I'd try something to retrain your mind there.

I also stopped bringing up MC. I don't think it works for everyone. Therapy in my sitch is connecting, listening, understanding, leading by not fighting, little dates, wine nights. MC is a lot of pressure IMO.

Reminding yourself of success is great, but if you're like me you want to make sure you don't become arrogant. You probably are more successful than I am, but totally different lifestyles from where you are to here. I wouldn't want to work in that environment either, too much politics for me and I like wearing golf clothes to work. Kudos to you on that.
19 345 Read More
Surviving the Big D
7 hours ago
I was kind of concerned about the comment “which she gets away with because she’s not family” comment too. Was that meant affectionately or do you think she was out of line?
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For Newcomers
7 hours ago
Originally Posted by IHCLACS

You see all the contradictory there? She doesn't know what she wants. Your W like mine, probably wants a lot of the dynamics beteeen the two of you to change since she can no longer continue on like this. The both of you are looking for that change through actions, not words, and Im willing to bet that it is you that has to do all the changing in her perception? Right? After all... If she wanted to work on the communication and trust issues, she would actively be working torwards the M? No? I would save these talks for MC since perception, coping skills, and communications can become greatly skewed.


Remember the quote "believe none of what she says and half of what she does". As IH says above if she wanted to work on the MR she would show it through action. Uni, sorry to be blunt but your actions are still being driven by hope of R. I understand the hope for R but in most cases getting to R is taking DB actions that are counter intuitive. Looking from the outside your head is still stuck in the fog. The sooner you can get out of the fog the better for you. Sorry to be blunt, I know this is hard but I see a lot of signs of your actions being driven by hope of R. The hope itself is not bad but remember what the vets advice about the counterintuitive approach that works.

Stay strong U!

58 656 Read More
For Newcomers
7 hours ago
Hey Steve,

Just been reading your sitch and the wedding ring thing is right where I am.

She kept hers on post BD for a while but after a couple of months she went much colder on me (likely OM) and took it off. I still wear mine a) out of habit and b) to show my intentions to anyone else who is paying attention.

I’m starting to feel like it may be time to take it off but, whether W does or not, I believe in the sanctity of marriage and that it isn’t over until it’s over. Maybe that’s hopelessly naive and shows that I am still to attached, I don’t know.

Anyway, good luck, brother. Keep up the good work.

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