I have not posted for a while but its time to get back on the horse and get refocussed.
For the record here is the short version of my journey
Dec06 W tells me that we should separate
Late Jan 07 I find this board and order DR
Late June 07 W moved out leaving me with kids.
Jan 08 W moves to cottage and we share custody of D12.
All through this period we have kept in regular contact and I have tried and succeded I think in applying the principals of Divorce Busting.
I already consider this a success as we have succeded in remaining friends through this and have delt with things between us quite well.
Now things have changed a little.
We went out together in the weekend to a concert at which assisted by alcohol we shared some very close moments with a passion that we have not had between us for a couple of years.
It was certainly a bit dream like holding each other like we did years ago.
Now we are back to reality and have both backed off feeling somewhat confused.
W has despite this shown a softer attitude towards me over the last few days and I have being seeing a bit more of the women I remember.
Thats about it for now, no pursuing and back to doing what we were doing. No expectations.
I do realise that I am not really done and realy need to refocus on the goal , experiment with what works and what doesn't.
What I do know is ;
I am more alive now than i have been in years , I am happier in most respects than i have been.
I have my W as a friend right now and she also considers me as a close friend.
We still both have baggage from our old R that gets in the way from time to time but we both seem to be able to get over any problems quickly.
I dont see us back together in the medium term as W still has a different path to follow right now , but thats OK with me.
Hi Dave!
Glad you posted an update, it is good to get to see how others in similar sitches are handling things. Sounds like you are on the right path for you. I hope your W can find the path that brings her happiness. Who knows, maybe you will be able to grow together!
Best wishes, SD
Thanks SD
had another interesting Weekend .
W comes over Sat afternoon and hangs out for takeaway dinner which is usual , its our family time when we are all together , we have done this right through our Separation. Then she stays until 10.30pm which is unusual, Also tells me she and D are going to a horse show sunday ( I took D last year ) and invited me along. I said I would think on it.
W arives Sun morning and again asks if I will come ( first time shes invited me anywhere for a long time ) So I said yes and we had a good time . W hung out at home for balance of the afternoon stayed for dinner and left in the early evening.
I am not sure what to make of this. There are some scenarios.
1. She is short on cash so she got me along as she knew i would pay and a couple of free meals never hurts ...amusing but not too likely.
2. She is missing her family time , is aware that I still have feelings ( last weekend demonstrated that ) , is aware that she still has feelings . so feeling a bit more comfortable around me.
But like me unsure so just testing the water a little.
" theres something happening here but I dont know what it is "
To say i am confused is an understatement so I am adopting the attitude of being mildly receptive but very cautious.
This could be early piecing or it could just be that comfort thing , only time and observation will tell.
I know its important now for me not to loose my cool and become impatient. We has a long way to go before we come close to getting back together, and I do not even know if that will be the right thing.
Dave,
I had a similar thing happen to me today. I went outside this morning to do some work on the house. W comes out and pulls a lawn chair over to where I am working and sits down. I keep working for a while, we chat a bit, etc. I finish working and she gets up and follows me back inside.
I think she is starting to figure out that the 17 years that we have spent together and the 2 kids we are raising together form something that she will never have with anyone else. She still doesn't feel any love towards me and is still in contact with OM, but also does not want to lose this. Is it possible that your W is in a similar place?
SD
SD
There is probably a lot in that. She does not communicate how she feels so I could only Guess. Thats why the best action is to stay on course and observe.
There is a lot of the old W showing though and its thrown me a little. Was actualy easier when she was headed in one direction ( i.e away ) . Now I find myself thinking that reconciliation could be possible. I need to see more of the same before I go too far though, as could all be a "flash in the pan".
I guess this is mild WAS behaviour on my part. Was not too long ago I was pretty sure I was done , now I have seen changed behaviour , I am starting to think possibly we could do this.
But I am going to need to see these changes over time.
What I am doing is rewarding by saying thanks , or a quick text , any behaviour thats constructive.
Its time to dust off DR books and refresh I think.
Dave
Hey CK,
Seems like a potentially confusing time for both you and your W. That's a lot of shared history together! At a quick glance, it does seem like there is some tentative testing behaviour going on. Good job for reinforcing it selectively! It does sound to me like something is going on chemistry wise between the two of you that is different lately. The question is (as always isn't it?): what does it all mean??
You're responding in a way that sounds balanced and you have both eyes open, so keep us posted!
Good luck,
Purr
Hey Dave --
I track you down after way too long a break, and look what i find!! Sounds like you've got our old nemesis, Mr high Expectations, firmly in check... boy, what i wouldn't give for some real old-fashioned passion!! The limited physical interaction between H and me couldn't really be categorized as passionate...
Slow and steady my friend...
Come visit over in Infidelity (that sounds VERY strange, doesn't it...)
L2
Hey Dave!
Glad to see your update, and although I don't want to get you too giddy, I'm grinning from ear to ear after reading your posts! We all knew it was going to be a marathon when we first signed on to this DBing venture, and it seems that you might be quite a few miles into it now. I'm extremely happy for you and how things are going with W. It's totally awesome that she is initiating some out-of-the-ordinary contact with you -- what a step forward!
Good for you in keeping the patience at the forefront of this new leg of the run. I'm sure that doing so will continue to pay off for you.
Take care brotha, and keep up the occasional post, eh? We've all gotta keep in touch somehow from time to time!
GD
Hi all , great to have some old friends visit
Purr, You are right on the testing , I need to keep thinking when she is around , not get sucked in to reacting in ways that I would have pre DB'ing.
Example W was home yesterday , and not in one her better moods , once apon a time I would have reflected her mood right back at her , with the usual result. This time she was trying to read E mail and the computer was going extra slow , I just asked is something frustrating you I can help with ? She expresssed her frustration about it being slow , I validatated and left her too it. Her mood picked up soon after.
The lesson here is that nothing needs to be fixed , she just wants someone to share her feeling.
L
Slow and steady is the way for sure. Its so good to hear from you.
GD
Being patient is not easy , but I seem to be right back in the game. But its quite a different game. I would bet neither of us wants our old M , we both are unsure about each other and if we want a future together. We are both reasonably unattached .
There has been no passionate contact since that night but perhaps the desire is hiding under the surface.
I wanted to go out and have some beers with friends last night and asked W to drop me off on her way home , which she did happily. Later my expected ride home did not eventuate so I though why not text W . 20 minutes later she arrives,
Quite happy to give me a lift and looking for a Kiss when she dropped me off.
So I dont know what we are doing realy .
Dave
Just a quick update for those interested.
W and me have backed off a bit. W finding it stressful to spend time with me (her words) .
In saying that she spent most of the day here yesterday (sunday), went for walk with D12 together , had dinner and watched some TV. She started off withdrawn but was quite happy by time she left.
Now my take on this is she is clearly not stressed spending time together , seems to enjoy it otherwise why would she come around . It would be just as easy for her to entertain D at her house.
What I suspect is stressing her is when she is apart and alone , shes has set out on a path that would have been easyier if I had stayed the same old me. But I have not acted as predicted and this just may be causing her wheels to wobble , starting to doubt what she is up to , and therefore causing stress.
Then it may just be my wishful thinking. It has been hard to stay patient and I have been a little pursuing at time , this is not always met with negative results as long as it is nothing too big. She likes text messages and being teased not too much more.
I also contact her over matter of fact stuff and let her start with the friendly stuff , then run with it.
We are actualy way ahead of 12 months ago but sometimes it still seems such a distant goal.
It would be easier to give up but I am sort of enjoying the game.
Dave --
Sounds like maybe some 'two steps forward, one step back' going on... and you are doing great with it. I admire you for your patience; how are your kids doing? Do they talk to you any about things, or just go with the flow?
L2
Hi L
Thanks for looking in . It is interesting , I had let expectations creep up and this was starting to drain me a little I think. I talked last night with the older boy and he thinks I am being too nice to W and helping out too much.
D12 just takes it all in her stride , she lives with me in effect but goes and visits W 3 /4 nights a week but they are realy just sleep overs and fun . S17 goes one night , S20 never visits .
They are dealing with things quite well , they have been disrupted as little as possible so life for them different but familiar ( if that makes sense ).
W still cant quite get a grip on not having control . Last night I am on the phone and I get a TXT message , " Who is on phone , need to talk with d has lost key " I TXT back " me on ph. will help her find it"
I found the key and TXT W , "key found all ok"
she txt back an appology with a good nite.
I have decided to back off initiating contact to see what happens , I have been too focused on W for last couple of weeks and not focused on myself.
When we do have contact I will still be friendly and happy but won't hang around unless invited.
its a bit of an experiment that may take a while to show results good or bad.
I figure I have made it too easy by being available to her when needed without being asked. I dont think she values what she doesnt have to work at.
If she works at it then she will be rewarded with some quality time , if not then it wont happen.
This will be a bit of a 180 from the last few weeks.
dave
Hey C-K, I hope that I can follow your steps. You're doing well and reading your posts made me realise that this is a Marathon and I for one need to re-focus on my goals, just as you did at the start of this thread. Just thought it might be good to know that you are providing some inspiration here......
Kiwi , Its a maraton alright.
There is danger in expectations , as you think things are going well you get some and thats just human.
W has been a bit more distant and almost a little angry , as if shes got a plan and I am not going along with it.
Why the sudden change in behaviour , who knows ?
The one thing I do know is that guessing gets you nowhere other than to perhaps the wrong conclusion.
What I do have to do ( experiment and watch results ) is reverse the lack of contact and see if it was a reaction to me dropping contact. Will wait a few days to do this though , just in case its something external.
Right now all I can do is stay the course , get the focus back on myself and looking after the Kids.
I will admit to being a little disappointed but thats the way it goes.
Just had a long Weekend , Got away by myself for a couple of days which was great.
I have struggled with the no contact , I went around and mowed W's lawns ( big job) she was not home but got a thankyou txt later . W is showing a great deal of frustration and anger which is not directed at me in particular. W had a tiff with D yesterday. I invited w for dinner with the family yesterday and she was still wound up , but I had her laughing by the time she left. She is under some amount of pressure from somewhere or someone and expressed some dismay at one her friends who is pushing her to do things she is not happy with . I validated and listened.
i sometimes think that I am just a spectator , getting on with life and watching what she is doing.
For me that is the best way as it saves me from getting too involved , there are glimses of the woman I loved but a lot of the time there is a selfish person who has no consideration for the feelings of those around her including her children.
Thats a person I am happy to avoid.
there are glimses of the woman I loved but a lot of the time there is a selfish person who has no consideration for the feelings of those around her including her children.
Boy can I relate to that statement, Dave! Just that WAS/WAW syndrome, I guess. I've been recently giving it the honest consideration that I'm really only after W just to see if I can actually win her back, and may be willing to tell her "no thanks" if she actually does. Said, but potentially true, I think. Of course, I'd like to be a family for the kids' sake too. Anyway, I digress...
Glad to see things are still on a relatively positive course with you and your W. Why does your son say you're being too nice/helpful to W? Is he just bitter about her leaving, or does he think it isn't helpful in regard to reconciling? Just curious.
I've got some updates coming up soon that I think are mildly notable. I'll talk with you later, mate!
GD
Hi Dave,
i sometimes think that I am just a spectator , getting on with life and watching what she is doing.
Good job! In fact, you are exactly right, you are just a spectator to her MLC. This is an incredibly important point and helps a lot to get past anger, frustration, and other negative, counter-productive emotions.
SD
GD
S just thinks I am helping her out when she needs to figure out how difficult it can be in the real world.
i am looking forward to your update , if I can find your new thread.
SD
Thanks , I am back to being quite balanced emotionaly again. That passionate encounter a couple of weeks back realy made the wheels fall off my trolley for a while.
Not much happening at present have not seen W since dinner the other night and will probably not see her again until late tommorrow. Went walking with D12 last night , that was nice , chatting all the way.
Dave
Hi C_K,
Popped in to read your thread. Our timelines are EXACTLY the same, our sitches are not. You are WAY ahead IMHO. ROCK ON!
PS: W saw early on how "hard" it was being a single parent, doing things without my help, even told me so. You can tell S it won't change W's response if you cut her loose completely.
Hi C_K,
That "observer" role seems to be a key part in the detached caring that is so often referred to on these boards. I'm sure your W. must be still mulling over the experience she had with you recently. Sure seems like there are a lot of mixed feelings going on for her.
It was validating to read the idea of the MLC'er going through a self-oriented (okay, selfish) period during the whole transition, because I think they are not able to see that aspect at all. I really identified with the experience of having brief "glimpses" of her and then the other parts / wall comes forward again. In a weird way, it's almost like when you have an elderly parent w/Alzheimer's or Parkinson's and they have moments of moving back into being recognizable and then it fades. They physically look like the same person, and you know that person is "somewhere in there" and yet not able to show themselves or remain present. It is heart-wrenching for me, but you have managed to get to a place of loving-detachment, and I guess that makes it easier to bear.
Keep posting, C_K!
Purr
Sleeper
As the single Parent I know how tough that i, but I see it as being very lucky to have my family with me. D stays with W 3/4 nights but they are realy sleepovers and her stuff , pets and home is very much here.
Purr,
I think detachment comes with time and the realisation that our M had been in deep trouble for some time . It is interesting that when OM was in the picture , W realy looked for faults in me and displayed anger and indifference , I guess in an effort to convince herself what she was doing was justified.
Now there is no OM her attitude is somewhat softer but over the last few weeks a bit more distant .
I would guess that contact with me is difficult and confusing at times.
She is quite determined to make seperation work and is single minded about this. I just needed to accept that . I do not know what the future holds , I doubt she does.
Back to the present.
Not much to say had virtuly no contact other that W phoneing me to talk about D until she dropped D home yesterday. Then she stayed for dinner and a movie. She was tired and subdued so there was not a lot of interaction . Sometimes I get this feeling that she is waiting for me to do something.
In any case if she ever wants to come back she will need work for it and I dont see that happening for a while if ever.
I dont like it , but I am happy , enjoy my days and what I do have , I think thats the biggest thing is to enjoy what you do have.
Dave
Hi C_K,
You said
I would guess that contact with me is difficult and confusing at times.
Can you say more on this? In what ways / why do you think this might be?
Sometimes I get this feeling that she is waiting for me to do something.
I can TOTALLY relate to this feeling...it's weird because it's subtle, but it does sometimes seem this way. Question is--waiting for us to do WHAT???
Hmm, let the mystery continue...
Purr
Purr
Your question
You said
Originally Posted By: C_K
I would guess that contact with me is difficult and confusing at times.
Can you say more on this? In what ways / why do you think this might be?
Some time ago perhaps even 2/3 yrs ago , W decided that she would quit our M based on her perception of how things were.
a little over 12 months ago enter a new C_K armed with some information ( Divorce Remedy ). Over the next 12 months I change behaviours and dont act in a way that is expected based on the past. Now W seems to like this new improved C_K and enjoys spending time , but she has also taken some drastic steps to leave the R.
See how it goes , I am not acting as expected , W gets thrown in to a place thats not so clear cut.
Question is--waiting for us to do WHAT???
I am not sure , perhaps slip back into old behaviours? perhaps beg her to come home ?
I dont think she ever expected me to cope after she left.
Now an update
Not realy that exciting . W came by both days over the weekend , stayed for dinner Friday , Sat and Sunday ( Today ) , seemed in quite a good mood Saturday did a bit of stuff for the kids ( I was out for most of the afternoon) . Watched a movie then left.
Today comes by , was a bit more distant at times , I kept myself busy so did not have a great deal of interaction.
Nothing has changed in our R , no forward steps , non back , no R talk , all a bit dull realy.
Post to self
I am so good at telling others what they should do and yet I dont follow half of it , so here is my 2x4 to me.
C_K
Your W is cake eating. She gets to play happy families when she wants , you help her out when ever she asks and yet she has her own space and life that you don't interfere with even though she walks in and out of yours at will. She knows that you are there and will support her no matter what [censored] she pulls.
Shes controlling comes into your house and rearranges the Pantry , complains because there is no pen in the draw , makes herself at home sits and watches TV.
Time to change things .
Changing things is good. But don't pull the rug right out from under her...just change something, watch what happens over the next week or two, then make your next move based on that.
If she is ever to come back, she needs to know that it is safe, with no games or guilt trips going on.
Remember the DR book regarding LRT - don't accept all invitations to be together, don't initiate all contact. That doesn't mean to fall of the edge of the earth...just change things up a bit.
Good luck.
Good point MM
I was frustrated and its better to let it out here , I am away with work for a few days so it will give me some "time out".
Yep, I feel your pain, Dave. I get frustrated too.
I actually mentioned this to my W a couple of weeks ago...she said she gets frustrated too - with herself - for not knowing why she feels she needs to do this!
I thanked her for sharing that.
Hey C_K,
If you can be gentle with yourself with that self-administered 2x4, I think you might be on to something. Like Mink says, maybe it can be a graduated change toward a better balance on this for you.
My W. once joked (maybe not a joke) back in the good old days that maybe she needed one husband for sex, adventure, passion / romance, etc etc, and one (ie. me) for being loving, responding of her emotional needs, being solid and dependable.
Great. Sounds like cake eating and fantasy. Unless polygamy is on the menu, I don't see that working.
Purr
Not a bad idea, Dave. I think the question now might be how best to do that? You know your W the best, so how do you think the best way to approach her with this would be? Also, something to factor into this decision would be what kind of behavior would she like to see from you with regard to bringing this issue up. Would it be a strong, confident Dave? A submissive Dave? A compassionate, empathetic Dave? A blend of these formentioned characteristics (plus some others, maybe)?
How will you address this?
Also, if you go through with this, make sure you closely monitor her initial reaction as well as her response as the waters settle (i.e. over the next week or two). Take stock and decide where to go from there.
Thanks for the update, buddy!
GD
Thanks Guys for the input
GD where is your thread ?? cant find you , would like to know how things going.
What have I done.
I have been away and just sent a quick message to advise that I arrived safe , W send a quick txt back saying enjoy you trip or something like that. We had brief contact when I arrived home yesterday , she had prepared dinner for me and the kids , some small talk then she left to do some shopping.
Thats the sum total of our contact.
So thats the plan over the next week or so . Contact when I need to , other than that friendly but not going out of my way to do stuff or make contact , just backing off a bit nothing drastic.
Dave
(((Dave))) Wish I could have done the friend thing. Just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you.
--D
(((Donna)))
Its so good to hear from you
I do hope things have settled a bit for you. I had it easy as a lot of what went on was hidden , if it was in my face like it was for you I dont know how things would have worked out.
There is still a lot of emotions I just "put away" for the want of a better expression so that I can focus on the big picture.
W would describe us as friends, I dont think we are there yet realy as friends is more than being tolerant of each other and civil.
Dave
Hey C_K,
How is the plan going so far of slightly pulling back? How are you feeling about it?
Purr
Purr
Its a bit early to tell right now other that she is being more cooperative at present and she did come to me to get a kiss goodbye when she picked up D on Saturday .
Journaling Now.
I have backed off with W a small amount , being friendly but not going out of my way to make contact unless its something re the Kids.
Too early to see if this is going to cause a reaction and I have noticed an effort on her part to be more cooperative. W was around home Sat night and stayed for Dinner and a movie as usual , was starting to feel Ill but took D home with her so that I could go out to a party. Sunday I Text her too see when she was dropping D back she replied and also stated she was ill. I know her lawn was out of control so I went round and mowed it for her , she was appreciative.
What I did note was interesting.
When W moved to her place just a couple of months ago she kept it spotless , planted the gardens with flowers and was taking some pride. When I called on Sunday I was surprised , weeds in the garden , house looking like it could do with a a clean , dishes in sink from at least day before.
I am not reading much into this but making an observation. When she decided to leave home (and this was a year before she actualy left) she lost interest in the garden ( plants died ) and projects were left etc.
Its possible she has just been feeling tired and not well , time will tell.
W then called on Sunday while I was busy in garden to spend time with D who had some friends round. W found this all a bit much , as she still ill ,and went and laid on my bed closed door and watched TV . I left her to it and she reappeared as the Girls went while I was in middle of preparing dinner. She stayed for Dinner and then left soon after.
She was quite relaxed and pleasant to have about , I have no real need to contact her until later in the week as D is with me until then so we will see how that goes.
The no contact lasted about 1 day LOL .
W contacted me to pick up D from her house today. I went around and she offered me Coffee as D was not ready. W was certainly a littel more interested in what I was up to , asked me about my day etc..and genuine interest as the look in her eyes towards me was different , it was warm. This has been absent for so long it was quite nice.
Just small talk but not one sided as it has been.
When I went to go I just said bye and W got up from where she was sitting to come over and give me a Kiss and small hug.
I am so tempted to abandon the no initiation but not going too , will let this play out for a while yet because she does know how to reel me in and I dont want to make it easy. She needs to be a little uncomfortable if shes keen and if not, then it is not going to make any difference.
Hi Dave,
"I am so tempted to abandon the no initiation but not going too , will let this play out for a while yet because she does know how to reel me in and I don't want to make it easy. She needs to be a little uncomfortable if shes keen and if not, then it is not going to make any difference."
It is so tempting to start moving in their direction when you begin to see signs of interest isn't it?
Very wise to sit back & let her come to you. I have a feeling you're going to be getting more hugs & kisses that way.
I think it does say something that she's lost some of the "shiny & new" in her home away from you. It may not live up to the fantasy she had in the beginning is probably a pretty good guess.
Take Care,
Sunny
Hi C_K,
Good job on this...sounds like your experiment is so far giving you more info to work with. Warm & sunny sure his it on the head re: the temptation to pursue right away once something has been put forward (even something small). But you sound like you're pretty grounded and got a good head on your shoulders! I'm looking forward to hearing more good news!
Purr
(((Sunny)))
so good to have you pop in and visit
Yes the temptation is there to pursue but I actualy am not bothered , I will leave things as is for a while and observe.
Purr I hope for good news but dont see a lot happening too soon.
I am also listing my old threads so I can find my way back.
My Story So Far My Story Continues The Song remains the same Fade to Black Flirting with Time Flirting with Time 2 End of the Line
A year ago today
W ias still at home and looks for now to have given up on moving out for some reason. Most of this will be due to DB'ing on my part and that has resulted in a lot less pressure on W .
I know she is doing this for the Kids and she treats me with indifference mostly. Through this process she has withdrawn further , stopped wearing any jewellery that I gave her , stopped wearing wedding ring.
The hardest part is that everyone , even casual aquaintances get treated better than me and that is tough to take with a smile.
I feel like a neccessary evil in her life.
The anger has gone mostly to be replaced with this indifference which is even worse.
Right now it feels like we are going nowhere with no progress.
Oh how things have changed in a year, I had almost forgotten how W was back then , We have come a long way since then even though we are apart.
There is a touch of Warmth between us now , not a lot but a big thaw over what it was like one year ago today.
Dave --
A good exercise to go back and review...and for you, it is a way to feel good about how far you've come. And if you are okay with that place, then all is well.
I feel things spinning away from me with increasing speed (I'm not spinning, but H is starting to take some very definite action toward OW and S/D...), so i can't say the same, I'm afraid...
Thinking of you...
L2
C_K,
That is pretty neat to see the snapshot of where things were--in your own journalled words--and compared to now. The thing that stands out most to me is the stuff that is so hard to concretely identify...like the sense of a touch of warmth, or a softness in her look toward you (even if only for a brief moment). Somehow I think these intangible things are very significant. And wow, you are doing a great job of not getting wound into it all with expectations, but you are not dismissing it either. That's a good balance to strike. I hope to be able to get to that kind of space someday.
Keep posting! I'm interested in what happens next.
Purr
I am rubbish at this no contact thing.
I knew W was not well so I sent her a text yesterday just asking " how are you today " . Ends up she had stayed home from work and was appreciative of my message.
Later I get a Txt asking if I could drop D off to her , which I did later on. I stayed for coffee and when I left W said see you tommorrow ok . Now this is tommorrow and there is no need to see W at all so we will see what happens.
She likes this contact with me but I feel I am giving her the message that I will hang on for her and that while things are this way she is in as little bit of a comfort zone.
So I will not initiate any contact today or tommorrow .
Dave
And a year ago today I wrote
she makes out that she wants little contact with me, is indifferent to me and then when I really back off starts seeking the contact.
mmmm.... Learnt a lot this year I have not ......
Update time
Feeling quite lost at present. W was at home for dinner Sat night and stayed and watched a movie gave me a hug and kiss as she left, seemed quite happy to be at home.
Sunday she came over to pick up D early in the afternoon and was very distant , she borrowed my car , I invited her for dinner again and she happily accepted but stayed distant. This is very much our usual weekend.
I dont know if this is doing us a lot of good, Seems very comfortable for W . She gets to spend time as family like nothing has happened and live her own life when it suits.
I however do all the work in maintaining the family , feeding , washing clothes etc, and she walks in and out at will. I guess I am feeling that I am being taken advantage of .
Our sitch is not improving and I am getting impatient.
Perhaps I am just tired .
Dave,
When I am feeling this way, I just focus on my blessings.
Another thing I do is to imagine that I am a single parent and that W is just one of my kids. Then it all makes sense! Sad, but true.
Hope this at least made you chuckle!
SD
SD
I have been feeling good over the last couple of days. I am blessed to have my Kids around me and feel sorry for W as she is missing out on the last couple of years the boys will be at home.
They spend no real time with her these days.
I am getting to have that time with them and I am making the most of it and the shared time with D as well.
I have not contacted W at all but did see her today , she was here picking up D . She got me some stuff I needed which was real good of her and was very " non alien " . I kept to small talk , it was nice and relaxed , unlike the last time she was here where it was tense.
So I will send her a quick text later which will be short but sweet.
I know she likes them and it will be rewarding the good.
Other than that I probably will not see her for 3 days or so until D comes home.
Oh and like mm I am getting called pet names again ??
Dave
C_K,
I can relate to many parts of what you are sharing in your story here. No pet names for me, but some references to inside "jokes" that are along similar lines. This is really difficult to figure out where the boundaries are. The part of noticing how it can be comfortable for the WAS is really true. The struggle--for me anyway--is in trying to ascertain what it means: is it just as far as it will go? Is it a foundation for something more? How to explain the pet names thing...I suppose it can only reflect some confused or ambivalent feelings.
How do you feel about the pet names thing? What do you make of it?
Purr
Purr
I am not sure. I do know she uses them when she appears the most comfortable , but I dont try to analyse it .
About the pet names thing.
I think, when unusual things happen in our sitches (like suddenly using pet names or signing an email with "love" or "xoxo"), we have to see if there is something that has just happened in the WAS' life to prompt it. If we can make such a connection, we can use it again to see if it's real or just wishful thinking.
For instance, on Sunday, my wife called me about something trivial, and happened to mention that she had been listening to our "summer" playlist on her iPod. She told me she heard 2 Neil Diamond songs that made her think of me, and she felt melancholy about it.
Later that day, she sent me an email where she started with "Hey Mink" and ended with the pet name I always called her. The email was the most well-structured, lighthearted and happy email I had gotten from her in ages.
I think there was a connection between the two.
This has happened on a few other occasions as well.
So, when I see her on Saturday, you can bet Neil will play at some point during the day
Hey Dave!
I think the reverting back to pet names thing is a sign of comfort with you. This is good as it shows that your DBing has reduced any stress she felt around you. However, it may or may not be an indication of how interested she may or may not be in you.
I know I have a few times called W "honey" or even a pet name. This is more related to the lack of stress between us and force of habit than any desire I have to be with her.
Just my $.02!
SD
Good thoughts on this, MM--and good strategy too. It does speak to a certain comfort level though, that seems pretty likely. There's always the question of whether we should reciprocate with pet names back...how have you handled this one, C_K?
Purr
MM , SD , Purr
SD I do agree it realy relates to a comfort level. This in itself as you say does not mean anything regarding the future.
Purr I have actualy given her a new pet name in the last few months ( "blondie" hardly original ) but she seems to like it and it started from me teasing her about some of her "blond" moments.
Here are some of the ups and downs
I was tired and feeling down the other night and in a moment of weakness , sent her a text telling her I was sad she was not here. I got no reply and it is extremely rare for her not to reply. I sort of took it as she realy doesnt know what to say.I know she doesnt want to hurt me so tends to avoid saying stuff that would.
The next day I was away at a track day about 2hrs away from home. Had a great day , the new brakes on the bike working well and I managed to stay upright , lots of very fast fun.
I get home and W's car is there , my car not. So once again W feels comfortable enough to borrow my car without asking. I realy didnt care I had had far to good a day.
W returned with D a few minutes later , I was very cold from the ride so attemted to rub my cold nose on her neck grabed her arms as she tryed to get away and pulled her close , she was laughing so I guess that was OK fun.
W stayed for a takeaway dinner. I teased her a bit and she left sticking her tounge out and smiling.
While I was away a male friend of mine called around to see me and ran into W . It happens that his W is moving out and he was looking for a bit of support . W got the full story from him so I think it at least gives her a bit of an insight as to what the LBS is going through. When she was telling me about it she said that his W is just where she was and confused. Unfortunatley she did not say much else.
Tonight she drops around to pick up D and is still around later in the afternoon , then asks what are you making me for dinner ?
BUT I am finding this quite hard , she is here and its all great but then she is gone and the reality is still here. I still go to bed alone , she comes on her own terms and has limited interest in my life outside of that that has some direct impact on her. As strange as it may seem the better we get on the more I hurt about the loss.
Its like letting some one see and smell their favourite dinner then taking it away before they get to eat and doing it every few days.
I am considering something that could backfire but its a sort of LRT . I am thinking of telling W that this is hard on me and that I would like a period of limited contact , I will think about this over the next day or two and post more before I do anything.
Update
Not too much to tell other than I am in a better place PMA wise. I have had limited contact with W and its worked out that way with schedules and school holidays. It seems the less I see her the better I feel ( now there is something to ponder ) .
When I did see her a couple of nights ago it was at her request as D wanted to go there while I went to a meeting. I always do what I can to make it a light and enjoyable time when I see W. A joke or two , listen to her , tease her a little.
I am reasonably sure there is still contact with OM but its still very secretive , I have never met him , know very little about him . I wonder if he is married ? in any case nothing I can do about it and I cant see it being a very fullfilling relationship at all.
So I have a busy few days planned a couple with the Kids and a couple doing my own thing.
I am taking a female friend to an event on Saturday ( no romantic overtones ) just along for company. I will tell W if I get the chance as I like to be up front with her. W wont like it much but too bad.
Dave
Sorry brotha -- I've been meaning to respond to some of your stuff but have gotten side tracked or put it off for a bit. Anyway, I thought I'd at least respond to your most recent post:
I am reasonably sure there is still contact with OM but its still very secretive
Why do you say this? What is your basis for this assumption? Just curious, as I haven't seen you mention him for quite some time.
I am taking a female friend to an event on Saturday ( no romantic overtones ) just along for company. I will tell W if I get the chance as I like to be up front with her. W wont like it much but too bad.
Interesting...
Can you elaborate a little?
GD
Sorry brotha -- I've been meaning to respond to some of your stuff but have gotten side tracked or put it off for a bit. Anyway, I thought I'd at least respond to your most recent post:
I am reasonably sure there is still contact with OM but its still very secretive
Why do you say this? What is your basis for this assumption? Just curious, as I haven't seen you mention him for quite some time.
I am taking a female friend to an event on Saturday ( no romantic overtones ) just along for company. I will tell W if I get the chance as I like to be up front with her. W wont like it much but too bad.
Interesting...
Can you elaborate a little?
GD
GD , still looking for your thread , do you have one going??
With regards to the A , I am not sure but had been around the house the other day and there was something she had printed out , a list of names , hers the three kids and ** OM . Plus a few other things , I am pretty good at picking up the signs now.
So I am not sure , and realy it doesnt worry me too much. Probably have not mentioned it because its not "in my face" as much , which is a good thing.
As for my friend , she has been part of a group I hang around with and have known her for a few years. she has had a couple of Boy friends through that time but currently unattached. Has an interest in Motorbikes , wants to go to this event ,has no one to go with , so I said come along with me. Simple as that.
Nothing exciting sorry GD
Now an update.
W arrived at home late yesterday afternoon , was quite unexpected. She stopped for a coffee and had that lost puppy look , so softy asked her if she wanted to stay for dinner , which she happily accepted.
After dinner I went to clear up and the Kids took off in different directions as they do leaving W by herself. I said something to her and got no reply. Look across and she was in tears.
I asked are you OK ? she said No . I asked if she wanted coffee she said "no I have to go , I can see I am not Welcome here" and off she went .
I can only guess at what went on in her head but she was here on a "normal" night , not family dinner night. So saw the house hold working as it normaly does and probably realised that its happening without her , a normal happy family doing normal things.
Unfortunatly I was left to settle an upset D who wonderered why W left suddenly.
D loves her mum and loves her home here , wants her Mum to be here spending time with her.
mmmmm
Hi Dave,
Sounds like you are still on a bit of a roller-coaster there!
I have had limited contact with W and its worked out that way with schedules and school holidays. It seems the less I see her the better I feel ( now there is something to ponder ) .
I know exactly what you mean. I figured this out last summer when I didn't see W for a month and it was the best month I had had in years! IMHO, it means that your W is in MLC and no fun to be around!!! Don't interpret it for much more than that.
Unfortunately I was left to settle an upset D who wonderered why W left suddenly.
Sorry about that.
Seems like your W was feeling lonely and stopped by to refill her tank. When everyone went their own way and did not re-arange their lives for her, her egocentric little MLC Self just couldn't deal with it. Again, focussing on you and the kids is the only productive thing to do.
Take care, SD!
Dave, I echo exactly what SD said. She is starting to see that you are able to get by just fine without her, and that is bothering her.
Hey Dave,
I do have a thread that I occassionally update, but it's still on the Newcomers forum. I really need to move it to a more appropriate forum! I haven't updated it in several days, so you'll have to go back a ways (probably a week or so).
In my last post, I was actually curious as to why W wouldn't be happy with you going to an event with another woman who is just a friend, esp given the current circumstances?
I went to clear up and the Kids took off in different directions as they do leaving W by herself. I said something to her and got no reply. Look across and she was in tears.
That must have been surprising for you. Has she behaved like this before?
I asked if she wanted coffee she said "no I have to go , I can see I am not Welcome here" and off she went .
Did you respond to that last statement? Anything else said before she left?
I agree with a lot of what SD said regarding the MLC stuff. Sounds pretty accurate.
GD
Hi C_K
Just checking in. How are things going? Any updates?
Purr
Purr
You realy want to know ??? I have had a very bad week . But Sh*t happens.
Long story cut real short.
W is supposed to be out earlyer in the week . tells S17 that he cant come over as she will be out.
I wanted to drop something over and as she was out I thought I would leave it at her door and head home.
I see her car there a strange car there and a light on in the house. This is where it goes pear shaped.
I text her " are you still out and about or home ? " she text back "out"
I should have driven home . But there was this overwhelming need to go knock on her door ..
THE REST IS HISTORY . Needless to say the lines of communication are non existant at present.
OH well , at least I know . She knows I know and there is no need for lies .
I dont know where I am at , the jury is still out . taking my time .
(((Dave)))
I'm so sorry...Even though you figured as much, boy does it suck to get it confirmed in such a concrete, in your face way...and it feels like watching a train wreck, and you know you should turn away, but you just can't... been there waaaay too many times over the last million years.
Hang in there...sounds like you've given yourself some time to process things...
And you are right...it's now way out in the open. No way to ignore or look the other way and act 'as if' it's still unknown...(like I still do since technically i really only know what I know because 1) I'm pretty observant and 2)i snooped!)
Maybe this becomes the time to set some more explicit boundaries. Maybe this becomes a real opportunity for you to show your strength in a very deliberate way...
But it still totally sucks...
I'm sending big hugs your way...
(((XOXOXO)))
L2
Hi Dave,
Yep, it's like L say's, you know you should turn away. Sometimes you know it & still don't turn.
Of course it'll be no surprise that I did the same thing!
Where to go from here.....taking your time is the first step & wise. Thing's will change on their own now w/out you doing a thing, (I'm kicking myself for not taking the very same advice from CVA, et al......I thought I was a stronger person).
Take Care,
Sunny
And Dave --
Sunny's right, as always...
But of course, what the h*ll did I do tonight, after that wise advice I gave you earlier??? Got caught in a snooping activity, and put another nail in my coffin...
PLEASE, do as I say and not as I do!!!
(((Dave)))
L2
((((L )))),(((( Sunny ))))
So good to hear from what I now consider old friends ( isnt that scary ).
Sunny we have this weird parellel universe thing going on
Well I picked myself up and can give you all a little more detail of how things went.
First :
When I spoke with W at her house on Monday , I quietly just said " why did you lie? and at least now I can move on ".
That was all and I went home . Later that night the text messages started. I got 2 , "just a friend " " here for coffee" " cant believe you checking up on me" etc etc.
Normaly I would have responded , but I just turned my phone off and phoned a friend to talk too on the land line to keep my mind off W and also so she could not phone.
This going silent is a big 180 , I have never done that to W before. I actualy had no desire to respond or talk to W at all so it was an easy 180.
In the morning there were 5 messages on my phone , all along similar lines and quite angry ( best defence being an offence )
During the day I responded as to why I was at her house and that she can see who she wants , I just wish she would be honest.
I got another message with more of the same " hes happily married , old friend etc etc" I ignored it.
Communication ceases
The next night she picks up D , rather than come in as usual she toots from driveway for D to come out.
Same for next couple of days , avoids me.
I decide I need to lift my spirits and went and got some new clothes and one or two things for the house. Went out to friends small party last night and feeling good.
Then today.
I wanted to know if D would be home later and also invited W for dinner as its our one night we all get together. This realy more for Kids. So I txt and ask and get no reply.
So I txt again and said " Can you at least let me know if D will be here tonight"
I got a reply " dont get angry , yes D will be home , I not sure if there for dinner"
" I txt her saying "thanks , I am off to Pub will be back home about 5.30"
Later I get a txt " will take up your offer for dinner if that OK ?"
I showered ,got dressed in my new clothes then went out . W was home with D & S when I arrived with takeaways. W had lit fire and fed animals as well.
She was quite subdued but pleasant and looking like a lost puppy to be honest. I had on my best PMA , joked with the kids and we all sat and watched a movie together.
W left after that coming over and giving me a firm Kiss , and thanked me for dinner.
My conclusion from all this.
W is not 100% gone , in fact some way from that. She has been having a bit of an adventure and enjoying it but is not wanting me to move on. Now the other night she got caught out. I 180 and respond quite differently to what she expected. She panics and rightly thinks that she may have just blown it.
Right now I am taking my time . I am re assessing what my Goals are , I am a little over W and her antics right now .
Dave
Right now I am taking my time . I am re assessing what my Goals are , I am a little over W and her antics right now.
Dave, this is exactly what you must do. It's funny though, no matter how much space and time you give them, it just is never enough. On the other hand, when you chart a clear course and begin to move, they PANIC! Surely a lesson here for us all!
I'm a little jealous at the fire BTW, we just started our hot, humid weather here in FL (~33C today).
SD
C_K,
Whoa, what a H_ll of a week for you. These dynamics of closeness / distance are mind-boggling in the MLC world. Good for you for handling things calmly, even though I'm sure you were experiencing much gut-wrenching stuff. Sounds like she has shifted from defensive/angry to more mellow and subdued. You have done a great job taking care of yourself during what must be a super difficult time. Do you think there is a possibility that this was not an affair, that it really was innocent?
In any case, you sure have been doing well to go slow, reflect on what you need, and make decisions only as you are clear for yourself.
My week has been brutal too. W. ended it all on Tues. I'm a wreck, but the board does help a little. Here's wishing you a somewhat easier weekend.
Hang in there,
Purr
Purr & SD
Thanks for dropping by.
SD . I have to live my life and do it without fear of how it will affect W . Let the chips fall where they may.
Purr
Do you think there is a possibility that this was not an affair, that it really was innocent?
In this instance yes quite probable, I do think this was not the Man she was having A with. My main issue was with her being secretive, not telling the truth. Any hope of a new R or M is going to depend on building trust and being deceptive is not a good step in this direction.
And W was back again on Sunday for afternoon , stayed for Dinner I did not invite her but she was still here so I fed her along with the Kids. We didnt talk realy other than small talk. I went out for a while and left her with D. I dont like guessing what is going on in her head but first thing she did when she arrived was to make me coffee.
What have I learned , doing nothing is a very good strategy . React and its easy for things to get out of shape.
Dave
C_K,
The "doing nothing" strategy is interesting. A lot like my bro told me when dealing with his separation. Just laying low, he called it "playing a bit dumb", meaning not to assume too much, not to go digging, sometimes "not to notice" certain things. I guess it lets W. have more sense of control and takes pressure off of both people?
I see what you are saying about the deceptiveness and trust part, regardless of who was over with her. Rebuilding that trust is really important, but a slow process, and I guess she's the one who needs to rebuild trust. She really did seem to want to be clear that it wasn't "what you thought" and often comes forward with more warmth/caring/contact after something like this.
Purr
Purr
Thanks for the reply , sometimes I think "the lady doth protest too much".
Anyway I have pretty much learned not to try and figure out what is going on.
Well an update.
After our little bump in the road the other week its never been meantioned again.
W is a little more distant if anything.
The week went pretty much as usual only I decided to have a party on Sat night. I asked W if she could have D12 over that night as she may be more comfortable.
W said "sure no problem"
Then later I get a txt " I guess that means I am not invited"
I txt back " I guess I should not assume , you are more than welcome"
Then she txt " doesnt matter , I wouldnt have come anyway"
Anyway I had a good birthday party , a little too good
Lots of people came , that was cool.
Interesting thing happened was that W came round on the Saturday and borrowed my Car while I was out , at least left the keys to her car.
She brought it back 4.00pm the next day ( day after the party ) . I did not say anything , I do find it amusing though.
She got me a small present for my Birthday and a card , She did write "with much love " in the card so that was nice.
Other than that not a lot of contact other than what we need to deal with kids etc.
One thing else that may have an interesting outcome is that an attractive female friend took me out for dinner on the Friday night and we ran into one of W's best friends. I went and said hello , so It will be interesting if I hear anything about this.
Nothing romantic going on( despite what I may fantasise.. LOL ).
So thats it , still get lonely at times , but mostly enjoying life as I can.
Hi Dave,
I see that your W gave you the standard "checking to make sure you're still there" response to your party.
Then later I get a txt " I guess that means I am not invited"
I txt back " I guess I should not assume , you are more than welcome"
Then she txt " doesnt matter , I wouldnt have come anyway"
I wonder what her response would have been if you had answered "It's going to be a small party", or "Gosh, I didn't even think of that." Something non-specific that didn't go either way.
That's a classic though, asking if she's invited only to say she wouldn't come anyway.
The borrowing of your car on party day is pretty funny & amazingly transparent.
It sounds like you are enjoying life right now, it gets so much easier once you let it go, as you have.
Sunny
Sunny
always good to hear from you. I do wonder what would have happened , however I try not to play games too much and I was serious that she was welcome to come along.
However W has not so much as invited me for a coffee in over a year so I did not get too concerned.
The Car thing is a bit of a liberty. First its not my car but a company vehicle , and my "spouse" is able to use the vehicle as part of our employment package.
Its seems that she still considers herself as my wife , when it suits , or it could just be a way that she can save on fuel costs. I suspect the later and she knows that I will not get upset.
Perhaps thats my LRT , to stop being so nice. mmmm thinking now
I just posted on SD's thread but it is a thought that I would like to post on here as well.
it quite simple
The times I miss my W with intensity have seemingly all but gone. I do struggle with that , i think I should still feel something , but those feelings are hard to find now. I do feel Guilty about that for some reason.
Is this the beginning of the end ? Is this caused by getting attention from other women ?
Just thinking out loud.
Is this the beginning of the end ? Is this caused by getting attention from other women ?
It is the beginning of the end, which of course preceeds the beginning of the beginning of whatever comes next!
I don't think it is caused by getting attention from other women, but rather the other way around. By that I mean that once you truely let go, you (either consiously or unconsiously)start sending out the message that you are available and generally are more self-confident. This then makes women notice you and vice versa. And so it goes.
Unfortunately, I still don't feel comfortable going anywhere with this just yet...I am however keeping an ever growing list of women who I would like to get to know better!
SD.
Hi Dave,
I do wonder what would have happened , however I try not to play games too much and I was serious that she was welcome to come along.
Actually, I meant that as more of a rhetorical question, as I think I know what the answer would likely be. She would find another way to reframe it & on it would go. (This may just be projection on my part.
Unfortunately, I still don't feel comfortable going anywhere with this just yet...I am however keeping an ever growing list of women who I would like to get to know better!
This just made me smile SD....thanks for that.
Sunny
SD & Sunny
Thanks for looking in.
Its been a difficult week. I realy got very depressed and started to miss W like crazy. This was triggered by a mutal friend letting slip about new OM thinking i knew. I got where they met ( party month ago ) that he is separated , name and occupation.
I surprised myself by how much this affected me and I nose dived into what I could best describe as a pit of dispair.
To top it off I was having vivid dreams of W being with me in bed I would wake and be alone.
During this I txt W.
" I have been a bit of a mess over last day or two"
W - Its all good we all have bad days
" I know , I have to let you go dont i ?"
W - Wots brought this on? who you been talking 2?
"its getting close to a year and I have lost my way a bit. I not angry or upset at you in any way"
W- Answer my question? Who hve u been talking Too? Im still in lymbo as i havnt broken away completely have I ?
" Not sure what you are getting at talking 2 someone , is there something i should know?"
No. Just you hardly said Boo about your Bday party. Dont know you have been secretive
Then she started to talk about a mutual friend who has never taken sides and said that this friend would be manipulating my feelings against her etc etc.
and this deteriorated in an instant too
U couldnt wait to tell everyone I was such a hoe! U know what I havent told anyone , cause I am too ashamed of what I have done ! So yeah Im the bad one like you say !
" i not sure I ever said that , I hope I treated you with understanding if not I appologise"
I turned the phone off , I had done enough damage .
Then we can fast forward.................................................to yesterday.
W turns up mid afternoon , worse for wear after a long night out , stays on the couch watching TV , says very little . was there at dinner time so i fed her , fell asleep for a while then left. never even mentioned the other night.
I sat there watching her while she slept and though to myself what am I thinking? This woman has issues that go way beyond me .
her visit lifted my depression like magic.
I think I am off to the MLC forum with all the others who have Crazey spouses.
Dave,
Glad you made it through your down spell. It seems that you are getting to the point that you recognize this when it is happening and eventually self-correct back to focusing on what you can control. Next step is to refocus your thoughts back to the right frame of mind before you descend into the negative behavior and thought patterns.
My favorite is to completely refocus on the present. On the amazing gift it is to be alive in this particular moment and place. On the fact that it will never occur again, just as it is now.
Anyway, glad you are back in a better place, keep on keepin' on!
SD
Dave........ (HAL, "2001 A Space Odyssey"),
I looked in on your thread. I so wish I was where you are. You seem to be doing so well. Yes, they have "issues", but we love them. I wouldn't trade mine for any woman on the planet given the choice, issues and all (if I could only get that through her thick head).
Keep up the good work.
Hi Dave,
never even mentioned the other night.
Seems that if we regress into R talk that goes awry, or "crazy talk" w/our S's, if we just leave it alone, it is soon forgotten.
Although, I'm sure it works out better to avoid those talks altogether, mostly because it sets
us back & puts us in a negative state.
SD & Sleeper are right, you are doing well. It's easier for us, who are as close to it, to see.
How's it been lately? Are you still moving over to MLC?
Take Care,
Sunny
SD, Sleeper and Sunny
and anyone else who looks in , thanks for the support and kind words.
I have been feeling quite good since I posted last time. Not too much has happened and contact with W has been reasonably limited. She was here as usual on saturday , had dinner with us , I can remember if she stayed and watched a movie or not , could have.
I think the depression I went through the other week was just another stage of letting go. I think we all go through these in our own way. The result has been that I think about her a lot less than I did. I am certainly quite happy most of the time.
A big lesson in this is the need to be happy with ones self and without the need for a partner.
That doesnt mean that I want to be single for ever , but if thats what ends up being the result of this I can still lead an enjoyable life.
In saying all that it seems that for W its not all over but I have seen no real action in either direction.
I dont feel too inclined to put a lot of effort in myself at present so we will just see how it goes for now. The doors not firmly closed though , I have a lot of warm memories of W as well.
The big thing for me is if I can swing it a trip to the USA for Bonneville speed week . I have the $ just need to see if I can organise it with a couple of friends who are going over. This will give me something to look forward too.
So thats all from my world for now.
Hi Dave,
Sounds like you are on a pretty even keel. Hope you make the trip to Bonneville!
SD
SD
Things are very much just ploding along right now. W has been remarkably like her old self at times . Was here most of Sunday afternoon and I invited her for dinner yesterday as it was her birthday. She enjoyed it , the Kids enjoyed it and I even enjoyed it.
I have been around long enough to know its not going to change anything soon and I have accepted that its likely that we may never get back together.
The US trip is looking like 100% certain , there will be 4 of us Guys we will fly into San Francisco , hire a Van and take 2 or 3 days to get to Wendover then we are heading to Missouri for a swap meet AT The Ozark Empire showgrounds and the H.a.m.b DRAGS in or near Joplin. From there its down to Dallas and then back to LA where we fly back out. Going to be one hell of a road trip , but realy looking forward to it.
I hope than van can move pretty fast! That must be about 5000 miles of driving.
Anyway, glad your family had a good time together on the weekend.
Take care, SD
Journaling
I just wanted to get this written down as it is a change and I am not sure what is behind it. W had been quite withdrawn from me , then last Weekend we went to a musical event that S17 was in . As we got there early we had time to talk. I told her about going out with a friend ( female ) to a function a couple of nights before and how a guy at the function had asked me if me and friend were partners. I told him no we just buddies , this guy then proceeded to be over friendly to both of us and got enough info to start stalking my friend by phone. I ended up phoning him and warning him off. That’s the short story.
Since then ( and the change was instant after the conversation) W has been nowhere near as distant and I would be only guessing as to why.
She was at home on Sunday afternoon , and has been home when I arrived home from work for last couple of days. Normally she picks up D and is gone before I arrive. Sunday when she was home she was working on an old hobbie of hers that she has not been interested in for last year or two. She is as thoughtful and friendly towards me right now as I remember at any time through this.
She had also a week or so back stopped kissing me when she left , now she is back to a solid kiss on the lips and hug.
I can think of a couple of possibilities such as.
1. Her best FF saw me and my FF out a couple of weeks ago and is very unlikely not to have told W , W has been upset by this and that caused her to pull away. Me bringing up that we have been out and are not romantically linked in a round about way has been some relief to W who is also aware that there may be other women interested so has decided to real me back in a little .
2. W is indeed seeing another Man ( which was the case a month or so back) and me seeing FF takes away some of the Guilt pressure she was feeling . So down the track if she does bring OM out of the closet she can point finger at me and say but you have been going out with blab la. Not knowing of course that I know that she has been out with xxxx.
Previously she has not been amused by me going out with FF.
I can only but wonder but of going out with OW improves things then its WIN WIN ..LOL
Somehow I don’t think its that simple , and as usual for me its business as usual , I am not changing anything , Just working on being as confident as possible both around W and Other women.
One of the things that really takes a bashing when your partner wants out is confidence , particular in regards to self image. Its even worse when they are involved with OM/OW and have an appearance of confidence that is in part being propped up with this
Hi C_K,
Well, this is an interesting situation you find yourself in. Depending on how your wife is feeling / thinking, there could be many possibilities I suppose. It is encouraging that there seems to be a greater contact of late, more felt connection with her. I find it is a very confusing world to be in, this separation zone...the boundaries are not always clear around the edges.
I can really relate to what you are saying re: how hard it is to portray strength and confidence when you feel anything but that inside. I think it's good that you are out there in the world and doing some GAL activities, including enjoying the company of a female friend. How this impacts on W. is something to consider, but then if you don't really know the impact on her, it is only a good guess! I think continued observation and experimentation is a good way to go here, C_K.
Keep us posted,
Purr
Dave --
SO just when is this American odyssey?? You might be flying along the highway very near me (between Joplin and Dallas)!!
You sound good and centered...i'm having to accept the next step in my new reality...
Hugs to you ((()))
L2
Purr
thanks for your thoughts. I am actualy just getting on with life now , I dont have a lot of energy for observation and experimentation. how long does one wait ? I still have this fading desire to rebuild our R but its very wilted now. There are still very good reasons to do this but reality is it seems like the impossible dream. I am not going to change anything drastic , but I am no longer going to resist life going forward either .
L
Yes we will be travelling in your neck of the woods by the sounds of it .
Dave
Hey CK,
I dont have a lot of energy for observation and experimentation. how long does one wait ? I still have this fading desire to rebuild our R but its very wilted now.
Easily understood in the land of LB.
it seems like the impossible dream. I am not going to change anything drastic , but I am no longer going to resist life going forward either .
This is the point where it gets dangerous for us, although when you think about it, that's the point where the WAS jumped ship.
Good that you're not making any drastic moves, just living your life for you with no expectations.
It would be really nice to see you meet us over at Facebook.
To DB or not DB, that's the (group) answer.
Take Care
Sunny
PS)If you can't locate what you're trying to find, get a little
Kalni Sunshine.
Sunny
Thanks Sunny for looking in.
I seem to have found my way
Not much news in my sitch , just more of the same. W comes and hangs out in the Weekend , we seem to have an enjoyable time and then she goes back to her world.
I did ask her out a couple of nights ago , she told me she already had plans but they were not firm , could she let me know later in the day I had planned to take her out.
I said not to worry , we would catch up another time. She insisted on contacting me if her plans changed .
So last night she tells me shes not going out with friends as it was too cold , and she was going to stay home. I said OK we will catch up another time. Then she said Why dont you bring takeaway around.
So thats what I ended up doing and it was pleasant enough. Talked about the Kids and her work.
She text me this morning and thanked me.
So that was interesting , I have to remember that it was not much over a year ago she would NOT agree to having dinner with me.
I have to be honest and say that my heart is not in this like it was but I will see if we can date a little and see where it heads.
Dave
Hey Dave --
Check your "face"...
L
More Journaling
The 1 year separated mark is nearly here . Wow where did that year go?
Sitch is still in Limbo and I guess to some extent its because its where both W and me are comfortable enough for now. I say both because either of us has can change it.
I had decided that the one year mark was going to be a line in the sand. I think emotionaly I have already crossed the line and in reality am waiting until after my trip before I decide to change anything. The Time away will be good for both of us and either of us may have a fresh perspective on things when I get back.
But at that stage I want to move one way or the other.
Dave
The Time away will be good for both of us and either of us may have a fresh perspective on things when I get back.
But at that stage I want to move one way or the other.
Dave,
you will know when you are there. You don't need these artificial deadlines, you will just know.
For me, it was when I felt the sitch impacting my patience with my kids and my judgement in general. I knew I had to move on. So...I retained a L today.
Hope it doesn't get this far for you.
SD
Thanks SD
Me too (Re L )
I am 98% there , I am just procrastinating. This is major stuff as you know and I am just need to be sure I am sure. The emotional rollercoaster has settled and the ups and downs are minor compared to some of the year gone by.
I guess I am just wanting to make sure the way I feel now remains reasonably steady , if you get what I mean.
Dave
Hi Dave,
It's great that I can now see who I'm talking to now..... & what a handsome C_K you are!
Maybe trying something different before going the legal route would be worth pursuing.
I think it's Puppydogtails thread that has some different suggestions on getting a sitch out of cake-eating-land.
There doesn't seem to be much of a reason for your W to change anything soon, she seems very comfortable with the way they are.
After your trip, might be time to shake things up? Much easier to do when you've reached the point you have.
Sunny
(((sunny)))
Not sure whos photo you have been looking at
but thanks , you are not so bad yourself LOL .
I have had friends over tonight for dinner and that was realy great. W was here picking up D , she said " you are entertaining a lot lately" I said its good to have my friends over .
I did learn that there is not one OM in the picture but 2 . One married who is an old school friend. He lives out of town.
None of this from W of course , but its a small country and the hills have eyes.
Not too cut up about this , more disappointed .
It changes little , the path remains the same.
Nope, it was you alright
, with that nice smile, on the boat with your friends. See, there is happiness available that doesn't require a S, & if that's a recent picture, it looks like you're doing a great job of finding it!
I did learn that there is not one OM in the picture but 2 .
It changes little , the path remains the same.
Each time I learn more information it seems that I initially get upset, only to realize the same thing....nothing's changed.
Although, to be honest about it, I usually call CVA (or Nomo), run through the whole thing a few times, & then listen to them remind me that the path really remains the same.
I'm happy to see that you're having friends over often, it does wonders.
Sunny
Thanks Sunny .
One of the people at my dinner part was a single female who I have been out with and have told W I have been out with before.
We shall call her L . I have known L for a few years , she was the partner of a good friend , they split not long before me and W . So when either of us needs a partner for an event we tend to drag the other along nothing more nothing less.
Anyway ,before I left work I get this text from W " you dont need to keep L a secret "
I just text back " not much of a secret , I have told you that we have been out" .
She went on to say that she chose to leave , is a big girl and she is more than OK with me seeing OW , really honestly.
I get home from work ( winter here ) no one home but W has been and got a fire going for me , so I came home to a warm house.
Last night was takeaway night at our house and W has usualy stayed unless she had something to go to. I asked her if she was going to come . She declined . Not going anywhere just going to stay in. So she stayed alone in her cottage on a cold sat night .
I dont think it will do her any harm.
So she stayed alone in her cottage on a cold sat night .
I dont think it will do her any harm.
Yup. She obviously doesn't know what she wants, so maybe some quiet time reflecting on the past, present and future is what she needs.
Take care, SD
SD , You are right and I am sure she does a bit of reflecting. The OM in her life are a distraction though , I dont see much happening in the short term. I dont even know if I still want to save this M any more. I strugle to miss her.
I will leave things as they are once I return at the end of next month I may give things another shot , but this time I will try something quite different.
Dave
Journalling
W came by on Sunday and stayed the afternoon and for dinner. She arives unannounced and just makes herself at home.
the day before I had purchased a small inexpensive battery charger for rechargable batteries. W spots it and asks " why did you buy that for , we already have a charger" I responded thats your charger , you have it , i needed one.
Sometimes I wonder where she thinks she is at.
I also saw something posted on warm&sunnys thread where Gypsy asked sunny to think about what she she realy wants deep down in her heart.
I know what I want , deep down , but i dont see that its possible .
Hi Dave:
I know what I want , deep down , but i dont see that its possible .
Possible or Probable? Just remember,
1. We fail at all things that we do not attempt.
2. Luck is where opportunity and preparedness meet.
There is more than one path that can lead you to your goals. Try thinking of different paths that you have not considered up to now, at this point, what do you have to lose?
Love is a crazy thing Dave, if you still love her after all she has done and continues to do...don't completely give up on it too easily...just my $.02 from a totally different place!
In some ways, I envy you...I decided that my WAW was right about one thing, MLC or no MLC, we are not right for each other and I don't want to be with her any more, not sure that I ever really did.
Makes it easier, but not a very nice feeling to have.
Take care,
SD
Hey Dave --
Just checking in on my buds...awake and can't go back to sleep (again...)
I know how you feel about knowing deep down what you want...and I like SD's thoughts about different paths...maybe your trip next month will provide some new insights
(((Hugs))) to another "longtermer"...
L
SD , L
All the way through this sitch I have found procastination iis my friend. Leave something a couple of days and I feel different.
Right now I am not doing anything , I am just dealing with each day as it comes , knowing that I am in control of my life but not sure of where to steer it towards.
A lot of good things have happened this last 2 years that would not have happened if things had remained the same.
I am tending to sway towards insisting on more of a separation with W once I get back on the basis that her being in my life so much is preventing me from moving on. Perhaps it will be the absolutely last resort technique and one that I need to be comfortable with the consequences of.
Dave,
Yes, It is good to remember that, had this not happened, we would not have made much needed changes or gained insight into what a good relationship looks like.
A big part of that is being comfortable with letting sit for a while before doing anything about it. Something that seems hard to do in the beginning, easier after you've learned the benefits, & then difficult again when you run low on patience with the slow process.
What sort of last resort technique were you thinking of, since it looks like W's pretty comfortable with coming & going when she feels the urge?
Sunny
Hi Sunny
What i have learned is that it was not all my fault. Sure I had made mistakes but I now understand what happened a lot better and that I would not want to re enter a M like the one we had.
So unless me and W together can work together on building a new and better R then there is no point.
The first step in this would be being honest with each other , something W seems incapable of in much the same way your H is. It is fear driving this , I think they are both scared of the outcome if they were honest.
I am not sure yet how I am going to handle the next phase , still working it out.
Dave
It is fear driving this , I think they are both scared of the outcome if they were honest.
I think you're right Dave.
Next phase should be interesting for both of us, & more than likely closely aligned.
Your friend Sunny
Thanks Sunny
I was home yesterday when W came by after work. She had no real reason to as D was staying with me . I was polite ,however I was still finishing off some work so carried on with that , W made us both a coffee and I think was wanting someone to pay attention but D was messaging her friends on MSN or something S was in his room playing Guitar and I was working. W obviously felt left out , made an excuse and left without finishing her coffee.
I think this was a good thing , she can see the family functions well without her , she has to understand that she was the one who ultimatley opted out .
Hey Dave --
Okay; this is the 3rd time I've tried to get this message to you... my keyboard keeps acting up on me!!
I think this was a good thing , she can see the family functions well without her , she has to understand that she was the one who ultimatley opted out .
I think you are right, and that she seems to be getting that message (at least momentarily!)
Am I right to remember that this scene has played out this way several times? Do you get any sense of what she takes away from this, if anything? How does she seem to act in the aftermath... the same, any different? Not sure where I'm going with this, but it might be food for thought, since we all seem to be thinking of the need to modify things...
Yea...see if I can press send before this screws up or my battery dies...
(((Dave)))
L
L
You are right , there have been different versions of that scene from time to time.
I have not seen her since , but generaly she will act as if nothing has happened. If she is struggling on her own she certainly does not want me to see it.
Something else I need to note. I was with D12 at the supermarket the other night and D turned her back to the isle quickly as I heard a woman say hello and D's name. D said a quick oh hello back and was obviously wanting to avoid this person ( I would have too ). As she walked away I asked who was that ? D said oh thats one of Mums friends . I left it at that but D is a good judge of character.
Dave
Dave,
It does seem that there is a pattern of sorts. This time, however, it looks like she didn't get much attention at all on her "drive by."
W obviously felt left out , made an excuse and left without finishing her coffee.
I think this was a good thing , she can see the family functions well without her , she has to understand that she was the one who ultimatley opted out
Could it be time to step up with some more mystery & additional differences when she does come by to shake thing's up a bit?
Sunny