Wish I could read her mind (7)>>>>

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The last posts from Wish I could...(6)>>>>

Ok NDS, maybe I came across too strong.

You've been in what seemed to be a pretty good place the past week or so, and I really didn't want to see you go back to the place where you get frustrated, waiting for the knife to fall.

I can see being angry. Given the closeness between the two of you lately, and given the circumstances in which this came out, I'd probably have been angry too. Unlike you, I might have gone as far as expressing that anger to her this morning - not that I think that would have been a good idea.

Quote:

That just makes me truly wonder if things are ever really going to progress past this point. It has just been basically the same deal for 6 months now....her acting like things are, or could be OK and us being this happy fun loving couple...and all along her position has not changed. That's pretty disheartening. Especially after what was going on the last couple of weeks.

This is the paragraph I guess that put me on alert.

I honestly believe what I wrote earlier regarding her words versus her actions.

I think she would have to be an incredibly cruel person to be able to so fully embrace the love and closeness between the two of you, and then turn around in 6 months and say "Well, that's it NDS, one year is up. Nice knowing you."

Is there anything else that gives you reason to believe that she is a woman with that capacity for insensitivity inside of her? I just don't see it in what you have shared with us.

I DO believe that she has moments, flashes in time, where she is suddenly terrified. I believe that every once in awhile her mind reminds her of the past, reminds her of her resolution, and tries to convince her that what she has been reveling in is nothing more than a house of cards that will soon go up in smoke.

I believe she is incredibly afraid of that happening.

Because I believe that she LOVES this life the two of you have been living the past several months. I believe that her heart is completely given over to this man, the one that is fulfilling all those dreams that our wives have of who we will be to them, and who they will be to us.

The cold hard truth for her is that she is facing a much greater risk now than before. Remember, she declared herself done. In your quiet moments consider how difficult it was for her to give up. Think about the joy she feels in THIS life with you now, and then truly ponder what agony she must have felt as she labored over the decision to call your marriage done.

And now you do this.

Now you show her the REALITY that she dared not hope for. You showed her the NDS of her hopes. And each day you are showing her the life that she always KNEW the two of you could have together.

How can she help but embrace it?

And how can she help but fear that it's nothing but a ruse?

And this my friend is why I, and many others, have tried to steer you clear of focusing on hearing those magic words, "I've changed my mind."

You ask for too much, too soon.

What you are getting instead is a woman in love with the life that once lived only in her heart. You get to see the joy, the peace, the satisfaction, the silliness, the sleepy comfort that she finds in the things that you share. You get to see her embrace your time together. You get to see her slowly thaw from the hardness of 6 months ago, into the woman you love.

This will take time.

Every good day with her is money in the bank.

Every quiet, normal evening spent together is restoring a piece of your future.

This is not a woman who WANTS this to end.

This is a woman who is afraid it WILL end.

Those words you don't like hearing come from her fear. Acknowledge that and receive it as both a reminder and a challenge to YOU. Don't recieve it as a slap in the face. Don't see it as a sign that you've made no progress - if anything, it is quite the contrary.

SHE FEEDS OFF OF YOU.

She is so entwined with you emotionally that she picks up on your state. When you have withdrawn in the past, I believe she has too. And when you have withdrawn, don't you think it strengthened her fear that this is all pretend?

You know your course. Be NDS. Every day. Be NDS with all his goodness and his peculiarities. His strengths and his weaknesses. But be the NEW NDS who is man enough to admit his failings and be humble about his abilities. The man who loves his wife more than getting his way.

So, sorry for the 2x4.

I refuse to allow you to screw this up my friend.

Blessings,

Bill

Excellent post Bill.

nds, let me remind you of something I posted a while back about words that are said.

My W has said:

I'm done. I'm totally done. Get the f*ck out of the house. I have my kids and my career and having nothing left for us. She told me she doesn't love me. She told me not to address her with any honey's, etc.. Don't say ILY to me. I don't want you touching me. Your very presence gives me anxiety and stress. I want to have sex, just not with you. There were so many more that it would take me a long while to type them here. But I think you get the point of where she has been in the past.

A few weeks ago she was moving into a seperate room inside our house. Yesterday at MC she said she didn't feel a need to do that.

She's still with me. She said a few weeks ago in MC that she wants to try to work on our M. Last weekend she kissed me and we made out on the couch.

She tells me ILY. She laughs with me. She likes my company. She said in MC that she feels pretty good and pretty happy. She said she feels like her personal space is coming back to her.

She contradicted most of what she said in the past few months by her actions. The words came later. Some words haven't come at all. But she also wavers - her fear comes to the surface and it shows. My consistency wears away that fear she has.

Words are just words. Think about that. Today you are pissed, tomorrow you feel different. If you express your feelings today you come out pissed off. If you express your feeling tomorrow, you aren't pissed off. Feelings come and go. Sometimes they come out in words at a certain time - it doesn't mean that feeling is constantly there. It just means that feeling was there in that moment.

Words come and go. Steady action stays.

If you change your actions and behaviors you will only reinforce her fear that the changes are not real.

If you remain steady in your actions and behaviors you will weaken that fear in her.

Your changes are real and must be consistent whether she stays or goes. Your changes are made because you want to be the person you have become regardless of who you are with. Look how her apparent change of words and actions feed into your fear that it will not last - now imagine what impact you would have if you change your words and your action.

Has the frequency of her saying 'nothing has changed' increased or decreased?

How about her friend telling you, "Keep doing what you are doing - you're doing just fine?"

No 2x4 here - just a reminder that words are shooting stars - they last a few seconds then fizzle out. Actions are the sun that rises and sets every day, the same way, and can be counted on.

Originally Posted By: steady

No 2x4 here - just a reminder that words are shooting stars - they last a few seconds then fizzle out. Actions are the sun that rises and sets every day, the same way, and can be counted on.

steady,
This is very wise, thanks for posting this.

2 minutes to post, and feeling like a jerk....again.

She canceled plans with "best friend" last night and we stayed home and watched movies and had snacks.

Today we were supposed to go to her brother's for dinner. She called and made an excuse and we stayed home to watch football and have dinner together....WTF.

I am writing in between us watching the game, doing laundry together and making snacks....and drinking margaritas.

Actions...not words. I will check in tomorrow guys.

Thanks.
NDS

Dude...nds......wtf. actions, not words. open your eyes man...seriously. LOL. good job!

new abbreviation: ANW (action not words) or slang "Root beer"

I didn't get much of a chance for replies to any of the posts on the last thread before it locked, but I did read everyone's.

Quote:

I agree a 100% with Bill...and would like to add that maybe you should refrain from the alcohol indulgences when she is indulging...it can cloud things...it can complicate things...my H (when he started making the move home) used alcohol a lot to drown his feelings...but instead it caused them to surface...he would say things like he "loved" me..."wanted" me...but then not remember in the morning...I think it helped him to not feel responsible for his actions...

Lin
The drinking thing has been a bit of an issue for the 2 of us since the bomb. Before that, I had pretty much given it up, but my wife still drank, and sometimes that was an issue as she had a tendency to over indulge.

After the bomb, one of my 180's was to start taking her out, being more social and that led us back to the bar scene a little more than we had in the past. It has sort of snowballed into the 2 of us overdoing it at times, both while we are out and a home.

As for your comments about you and your H, I am not sure, and have not been since the bomb, how to take her when we have been drinking.

It is rare that R talk, or reminders about the sitch come up when she has been drinking...just the opposite, so as for which feelings tend to surface, it's hard to say. Most times our partying leads to some pretty fun, crazy and intimate times, but she has never slipped up and said ILY, I need you, or given me any indication that what she really wants is to work on the R because of she was drinking.

Lately I have noticed that she is more talkative and relaxed without the alcohol, whereas before...earlier, after the bomb, she had a tendency to just clam up and be very distant during the normal everyday time together.

Either way, the drinking has to be curtailed somewhat, and we both know it, and have talked about it. Lately we seem to have more nights leaning towards "normal every day" without alcohol, so I think we both are trying.

Quote:

I think she would have to be an incredibly cruel person to be able to so fully embrace the love and closeness between the two of you, and then turn around in 6 months and say "Well, that's it NDS, one year is up. Nice knowing you."

Is there anything else that gives you reason to believe that she is a woman with that capacity for insensitivity inside of her? I just don't see it in what you have shared with us.

Bill
Out of all the recent posts, that question jumps out at me.

Forgetting all the drama and talk about words vs actions that I have had lately.....and playing a little "what if".

She does not have a cruel, insensitive or deceitful bone in her body....but would it be cruel or insensitive of her to stick with her...our...original plan to get things in order and plan for a separation?

Granted, neither of us has stuck to those original goals, but it was my promise to her not to fight her when the time came. I told her when she had enough to tell me...if she wanted out, to tell me.

This sitch has not made an awful lot of sense since day one one, but that was the deal...it was like "hey..I know you want out, but we are here together. let's be civil to each other, let's have some fun. we can't just be here in the same house and walk by each other like we are strangers, right? We don't hate each other, you have just had enough of my BS.".....That has progressed over the last six months to what we have now.

Maybe progressed is the wrong word, as it really has not changed much since the week of the bomb. I know we are close, things are good, but for the most part she has never gone back on her word, and I have always given her the impression that I have accepted what she wanted.

Does she take me at my word, and is that what makes it OK in her mind to allow the closeness and embrace the time together? Maybe she thinks because, when the subject comes up, and I tell her that I do not need to be reminded that it will not hurt me when the time comes....that it would not be cruel to allow these times and then pull the plug, because I know exactly what I am doing?.

As a matter of fact I ASKED for this arrangement...I could have left the day of the bomb, or told her if she wanted out of the marriage to leave..get out of the house, but I didn't. I asked for time to accept the sitch, time to get our affairs in order..etc....and she gave it to me.

Then I drag my feet...I treat her the way she should be treated, but make no move to give her what she wants, and she reminds me once in while "don't get your hopes up", but never asks when or how we are going to get to the original goal...separation....strange.

Quote:

nds, let me remind you of something I posted a while back about words that are said.

My W has said:

I'm done. I'm totally done. Get the f*ck out of the house. I have my kids and my career and having nothing left for us. She told me she doesn't love me. She told me not to address her with any honey's, etc.. Don't say ILY to me. I don't want you touching me. Your very presence gives me anxiety and stress. I want to have sex, just not with you. There were so many more that it would take me a long while to type them here. But I think you get the point of where she has been in the past.

Steady
Trust me, I think of your sitch and those words often when I think of my sitch. You and your wife have come a long way in a few months. Your wife opened up to you about the bad feelings she has had towards you, and now the good...lots of communication from both of you.

Unfortunately that is lacking with my wife and I, so like I have been 2x4's into realizing more and more....

ANW...Rootbeer...good one, Coach.

NDS

Originally Posted By: Neilh23

Dude...nds......wtf. actions, not words. open your eyes man...seriously. LOL. good job!

Neil, Buddy!!! There opening...slowly and not every day...but they are opening.

Been following your thread. Sorry I have not piped in but just don't have any advice...have to admit, given the same sitch, with the kids and OM....don't know which way I would turn.

I completely understand your quandary, and would be going through the same thing, but listen to everyone....you and the kids first..that's all you can have any control over right now.

OK...just to put a period on all the words / actions crap....I know, and thanks everyone for piping in, speaking your mind and giving me something to think about.

Bill....don't you ever get tired of telling me the same thing over and over???

Quote:

So, sorry for the 2x4.

I refuse to allow you to screw this up my friend.

Blessings,

Bill

Would have blown it a long time ago if not for this site and the people on here, especially you and Forrest.

It's taken a while to get the hang of it, and I know I still am not there yet.

Just wanted to say thanks again for continuing to check in on me. Have to finish up at work now, and head home. The girls are in NYC at the Madonna concert...just got another text from W and they are in there seats.

Yesterday with her was a good day and a very nice evening. That's all I have to say...just nice....

NDS

Think about it like this....

Her saying "I am still leaving".. is exactly the same thing she was hearing when you were as*ing up.

She has not quit yet.

Until she sends you to my house.. you don't quit either.

Lucky Cricket.

Originally Posted By: ndsmhelp

Quote:

nds, let me remind you of something I posted a while back about words that are said.

My W has said:

I'm done. I'm totally done. Get the f*ck out of the house. I have my kids and my career and having nothing left for us. She told me she doesn't love me. She told me not to address her with any honey's, etc.. Don't say ILY to me. I don't want you touching me. Your very presence gives me anxiety and stress. I want to have sex, just not with you. There were so many more that it would take me a long while to type them here. But I think you get the point of where she has been in the past.

Steady
Trust me, I think of your sitch and those words often when I think of my sitch. You and your wife have come a long way in a few months. Your wife opened up to you about the bad feelings she has had towards you, and now the good...lots of communication from both of you.

Unfortunately that is lacking with my wife and I, so like I have been 2x4's into realizing more and more....

ANW...Rootbeer...good one, Coach.

NDS

Steady is so right. I said words to my H too. I said;

I hate you.
You will NEVER touch me again.
I am DONE.
Don't call me honey, sweetie, or anything other than my name.

The action I didn't do.........move out.

Hang in there, it sounds like things are progressing the right direction, no matter how slowly.

Hugs

It's nice to get the viewpoint of SC. She's been there and she always gives the viewpoint from the AWAW. SC you've helped me more than you know - as I'm sure many people can say the same thing.

nds you keep saying nothing has changed in your sitch. I'd say something has changed - you. In your own words you said you started treating her the way she deserves to be treated. And because you've changed, the sitch has to automatically change. No one can guarantee the outcome, but imagine where everything would be right now if you hadn't changed.

Your best bet is to continue being consistent with those changes, and when you see an oportunity for more positive change, take it and run with it. It's exactly what you've been doing all along.

Originally Posted By: Forrest Gump

Think about it like this....

Her saying "I am still leaving".. is exactly the same thing she was hearing when you were as*ing up.

She has not quit yet.

Until she sends you to my house.. you don't quit either.

Lucky Cricket.

You mean when I was being an a**hole all those years, I may as well have been telling her I didn't love her and wanted out of the marriage?

That is what she thought, and has told me that in so many words at one time or another during the last 6 months.

I was not going to mention this, because it happened while were both a little buzzed, and I have been trying not to put us into that position as much....doing much better.

Sunday after the game we kept drinking margaritas and just got into one of those crazy nights we had not had in a while....G rated version is she could not keep her hands off me, but it was not just touching...lots of conversation and connecting.

At one point there was a tequila induced slip as I was kissing her and I told her I loved her. She did not return it, but she looked me straight in the eye and said "You really do love me, don't you? You really do love me."

I told her...yes, it's taken me way too long to figure out just how much and how to show you, but yes...I really do love you.

...end of conversation...that was 3 days ago, and no distance, no drama. She still has been calm and relaxed and talkative...maybe she doesn't remember or maybe it didn't sink in, but at least I didn't get reprimanded for saying it.

Originally Posted By: steady

It's nice to get the viewpoint of SC. She's been there and she always gives the viewpoint from the AWAW. SC you've helped me more than you know - as I'm sure many people can say the same thing.

nds you keep saying nothing has changed in your sitch. I'd say something has changed - you. In your own words you said you started treating her the way she deserves to be treated. And because you've changed, the sitch has to automatically change. No one can guarantee the outcome, but imagine where everything would be right now if you hadn't changed.

Your best bet is to continue being consistent with those changes, and when you see an oportunity for more positive change, take it and run with it. It's exactly what you've been doing all along.

Yes, I know...thanks for stopping by SC...any time you want to pipe in...please do, I appreciate the female perspective.

Steady, I meant that it feels like the "sitch" itself has not changed much since the beginning. Even the first week after the bomb...after a few days of awkwardness...we went out to a show and had a great night together. Those things we have done since this all started...she has never really refused me quality time, we have fun, we ML....and that has always been the strange and confusing part to me through all of this.

What I have noticed more lately is the lack of awkwardness during the normal parts of our lives. There is more conversation, more questions about our days from each other. Before it seemed the majority of communication came when we were out partying or going away, or drinking at home...the crazy, over the top stuff, then she would wake up the next morning and say..."wait a minute, don't get the wrong idea her".

Now we sit and talk about politics, watch a football game together, or a movie, have dinner and there is normal everyday conversation.

What still bothers me a little is the bed thing....as much as we do, and as intimate as we are, she still spends more than half the nights on the couch....sometimes even ending up there after we ML. That's one I just can't figure out....maybe her way of obtaining, or keeping the space that she needs.

I think you're doing good ndsmhelp. I wish I had that with my W. Mine wants nothing of the sort except for me to act like her BFF.

Hopefully, with your strong DB'ing and the fact that you guys are interacting so well; you may succeed here and be an inspiration for many.

God Bless

Quote:

What still bothers me a little is the bed thing....as much as we do, and as intimate as we are, she still spends more than half the nights on the couch....sometimes even ending up there after we ML. That's one I just can't figure out....maybe her way of obtaining, or keeping the space that she needs.

I wouldn't be surprised if you're not right on the mark with that interpretation.

Did she used to spend lots of nights on the couch alone, or did this just start since the bomb?

If this is just since the bomb, this couch deal could well be a decent measuring stick of where she's at in things.

Bill

nds, my W has recently commented about how she feels her control over her 'personal space' is coming back. The couch thing may just be your W's way to feel in control of her personal space. Just a thought. I'm not sure I would interpret it as her somehow 'running away' from you - this is based on how the rest of your sitch is.

The question I have is did she used to spend every night on the couch? Or more nights than she is right now...or has the frequency remained the same?

Originally Posted By: marriedCrazy

I think you're doing good ndsmhelp. I wish I had that with my W. Mine wants nothing of the sort except for me to act like her BFF.

Hopefully, with your strong DB'ing and the fact that you guys are interacting so well; you may succeed here and be an inspiration for many.

God Bless

MC
Thanks for the pat...still think I have a lot to learn when it comes to DB'ing, though.

Although I am completely committed to treating my wife as she deserves to be, there is much more, personally, that needs to be addressed.

I still feel like, even though I am giving her the man she deserves, there are other things that I am neglecting.

If the sitch stays the same and we continue to progress positively, I think it will be easier for me to concentrate on "our" future....with the hope that she follows along.

As much as I have changed in my treatment of her, and my attitude in general, my goal is to show her more personal growth and hope that she will realize that we can have that life together we always wanted, but were never able to set goals together to reach....because of my behavior and our relationship.

NDS

Quote:

I wouldn't be surprised if you're not right on the mark with that interpretation.

Did she used to spend lots of nights on the couch alone, or did this just start since the bomb?

If this is just since the bomb, this couch deal could well be a decent measuring stick of where she's at in things.

Bill

Prior to the bomb, and during the year before that while I was in my "fog" of thinking all was well and I had changed, she spent most nights on the couch. I should mention that up until the last 6 or 8 months, I was using a CPAP machine because I have sleep apnea, so in some ways I thought there were valid reasons for her wanting a little peace and quiet at night. Over the past year, I had lost quite a bit of weight, and stopped using the machine little by little. As we spent more time together in the same bed, I let it go all together and put it away.

Still feeling OK, but due for a sleep study to see what's up.

Her reasons for not sleeping with me prior to the bomb were my snoring, the noise from the CPAP machine, the bed was uncomfortable((new bed that we screwed up on...too soft...my fault)), she was up late watching TV, etc.

I used to ask about it, make comments about it, but she would always tell me I was crazy..."it's not because I don't want to sleep with you". She would tell me about couples that she knew that had separate bedrooms, but still ML, or separate beds, etc.

I guess I would say early on after the bomb, she still spent most nights on the couch. If we were partying or out late, or having drinks at home and one thing led to another, she stayed in bed with me...many times falling asleep in my arms.

Lately, there are nights when she comes to bed with me, but if I go in first, she usually just falls asleep on the couch and stays there. Occasionally I will get up, tell her I am going to bed and ask her to come "sleep in our bed". Sometimes she will just get up and follow me in, other times she will say she will be in and never comes.

Last night she made homemade soup, we ate dinner, watched some TV and put some things together for camping this weekend. She had a couple of glasses of wine and was silly and talkative most of the night. I did not drink. Her legs were aching and tired from the trip to NYC, so offered to rub them for her, and we did end up in bed together last night...no ML...just a foot rub and a kiss goodnight.

I do believe it is a space thing, or just a hold out, in her mind...just her not ready to commit or something?

Or...we just need a bigger, firmer bed.

NDS

Quote:

The question I have is did she used to spend every night on the couch? Or more nights than she is right now...or has the frequency remained the same?

Steady
Missed your post this morning....see above.

I think since the bomb she sleeps in the bed more often, but since it goes back and forth so much, I honestly don't pay much attention to the frequency....guess I would still say the couch has the advantage.

Well...finishing up at work and off for camping in a couple of hours. All but one couple has chickened out because of the weather (nights; mid 30's), so it will be me, W and them. We are heading up tonight and will arrive well after dark, so it will be a bit of an adventure getting set up. The others are coming in the morning.

I have already been reminded a couple of times over the the last day or two to stop "worrying and over thinking" as we made the plans and got things together.

Have to tell myself to relax and go with the flow...have fun and let things go the way they go. The one thing that I know she does not like is my "OCD" when we do things like this, and the last thing I want is to remind her of any of the things that bother her about me.

We had a pretty normal week...for us anyway. Very little alcohol and lots of home time, yet there was still a pretty calm and relaxed atmosphere....mixed in with a little joking, some banter...dinners at home, tv, etc.

Hope everyone has a great weekend. The weather here in the Northeast is supposed to be great and the leaves are at peak, so I am looking forward to the woods and the weekend with my wife.

Family, food and fire.....and maybe a little tequila...what more do you need a cold fall night in the woods??

NDS

good luck and have a great weekend, relax and it will be great.

"Family, food and fire.....and maybe a little tequila...what more do you need a cold fall night in the woods??"

Your wife to tell you she is not leaving?

Just a guess.

And.. yes to the question you asked me a few days ago.

Have fun.. Lucky Cricket!

NDS, Did the bears get you?

Originally Posted By: Forrest Gump

"Family, food and fire.....and maybe a little tequila...what more do you need a cold fall night in the woods??"

Your wife to tell you she is not leaving?

Just a guess.

And.. yes to the question you asked me a few days ago.

Have fun.. Lucky Cricket!

You know, I was not even thinking that the whole time we were away, wise guy.....wouldn't that have been nice, though? Her saying that while out in the woods, under the stars with a roaring fire?

Got back late Monday...wife was back to work Tuesday and I was off, but just never made it back here to update.

Working now and catching up, so I will be back to journal a little...it was a nice weekend.

NDS

Originally Posted By: Coach

NDS, Did the bears get you?

Nope....we looked and looked for 3 days...wife was very disappointed, although I know she would have been scared sh**less if we heard one outside the tent while we were sleeping, it would have made a great story.....the only one she has to tell everyone now is me falling inside the tent and slamming my head on the ground....she got a kick out of that.

Having trouble putting into words my thoughts and feelings about this past weekend, and past few weeks, with my wife. We listened to this album driving up through the mountains, singing together at the top of our lungs.

Eddie Vedder - Into the Wild Soundtrack
Hard Sun

The movie and the soundtrack are awesome...IMHO.

This song brings a tear to my eye every time.

When I walk beside her
i am the better man
when I look to leave her
I always stagger back again
once I built an ivory tower
so I could worship from above
and when I climbed down to be set free
she took me in again

when she comes to greet me
she is mercy at my feet
when I see her pin her charm
she just throws it back again
once I sought an early grave
to find a better land
she just smiled and laughed at me
and took her blues back again

when I go to cross that river
she is comfort by my side
when I try to understand
she just opens up her eyes

once I stood to lose her
when I saw what I had done
bound down and flew away the hours
of her garden and her sun
so I tried to warn her
i'll turn to see her weep
40 days and 40 nights
and it's still coming down on me

there's a big
a big hard sun
beaten on the big people
in the big hard world

Just finally getting around to posting a bit about the camping trip...can't believe the week is almost over already.

If anyone can stand me saying "wife and I had a great time" again...that would about sum it up...sorry.

Sometimes, especially over the last few weeks, I feel like I shouldn't even be posting any more.

A few vents here and there, a reminder from her thrown in for good measure that creates a little drama in my mind, but besides that...calm, cool and relaxed...both of us.

Starting to finally realize (hey, it's only been 6 months..lol) that most, if not all, of the drama IS in my head and just my perspective on things.

Have spent a lot a time the last few days catching up on threads, and reading some of my old stuff....just wanted to say, you guys, and girls, are a strong and supportive bunch.

Although I don't pipe in on other threads much, there are many that I stay current with, and think about you people often.

Someday, maybe I will feel comfortable offering advice, but still at times feel like I am floundering in my own sitch.

There are some sad stories on this site, and many people going through hell. Reading these last few days has really made me count myself as lucky. Regardless of what happens with my wife and I, I could not have asked for more from her than what she has done the last six months.

The two of us have been nothing but kind, loving and graceful to each other through this whole sitch, and knowing that not many of you have that with your spouses almost makes me feel somewhat self conscious about posting about the "good stuff" between her and I.....does that make sense? Do you guys get tired of listening to me????

God willing, and with more work, what has been going on with us will continue to progress. If not, I know I will always be able to come back here for a shoulder to cry on, some advice or a smack with a 2x4....what a bunch.

Bill, Forrest...if someone had told me 6 months ago, I could "make friends" with someone on an internet message board, I would have told them they were crazy. I know have said it before, but "Thanks"...for staying with me, for advising me and looking out for me.....once again, somehow, some day...a cold one, a game of pool and some wings.

....and the rest..you know who your are.."Thanks".

The camping trip???? We drove to the site and arrived after dark...started a fire, set up the tent and unpacked. The weekend was filled with cooking, and drinking...walks through the woods, quiet hours by the lake..hugs and hand holding, laughing and joking...hours in front of the fire and we made time on Sunday to drive to a little town about 15 miles away to watch a football game. She had to get her football fix in.

There was not a harsh word, or tense moment in the 72 hours we spent in each others faces, even as we battled over which pole went where, in the dark, freezing our a**es off, trying to get the tent set up. We were a couple and a team, and with all we do, the time we spend together, this was a time that will not soon be forgotten. Hopefully she feels the same way.

This week has been "more of the same". She has her moments, but most times I barely notice. I know it could still be a long road, but things feel good, and I am learning....finally...and am in a good place now, no matter what happens.

I will be back to update, vent, whine and cry when needed...and post about the good stuff if no one minds.

Tim

"You can call me...Tim"

Name the movie, and you've got a sense of humor similar to my own.

You keep posting. You keep coming back here and letting us know how things are going.

Because you're right. There are a lot of sad stories here. And we all need reminded sometimes that not all husbands mistreat their wives, and not all wives cheat on their husbands. We sometimes NEED to remember that there was a time, probably in our own marriage, where we had much the same relationship that you have with your wife right now.

And hey, your story is not yet finished. There's always the chance that there will be bumps in the road yet to come. It's good for you to know that there will be people here ready to hear about, sympathize, and help push you on to the next step.

You sound very well. I dare say that it's beginning to sound like you get it. I'm not a big "power of positive thinking" kind of person, but I do think it's possible for us to create what it is that we fear subconsciously.

Embrace where you are. Take it all in, the good and bad. Reality is all that we have, so we have to take it all. Every down day tends to be filled with little positives that get overshadowed by the bad things. Changing our perspective is often the first step to getting off of top dead center, if you know what I mean.

Blessings,

Bill

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"You can call me...Tim"

Name the movie, and you've got a sense of humor similar to my own.

Monty Python and the Holy Grail...I love those guys.

I know it's far from over, Bill....no matter which way things go. I also know, from past experience that these feelings can be fleeting for me.

She seems to be in a different place lately, and I just can't put my finger on it. It's a good place most times.

There is still work for me to do on myself, and that has to happen regardless of whether I am with her or not.

I will keep you posted.

Tim

Quote:

The two of us have been nothing but kind, loving and graceful to each other through this whole sitch, and knowing that not many of you have that with your spouses almost makes me feel somewhat self conscious about posting about the "good stuff" between her and I.....does that make sense? Do you guys get tired of listening to me????

I think it's important to vent, journal and get feedback. There are more people reading than posting to you so sometimes what we write helps them even if they don't chime in. Plus all the different sitchs keep things balanced out.

I love the scene in front of the mouth of the cave with the Killer Rabbit.

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I love the scene in front of the mouth of the cave with the Killer Rabbit.

I think I was 12 or 13 when The Holy Grail hit the theaters? I can still remember the the group of us clowns going to see it at the local theater....ahhh the good old days.

How's that song go??..

I wish that I knew what I know now
When I was younger.
I wish that I knew what I know now
When I was stronger.

"I think it's important to vent, journal and get feedback."

It also has a side effect of drawing people in. You come here not knowing what to do.. it seems you put a post up and everyone should comment on it. I had some trouble with this.. not many people responded. I could hear "crickets" at times. Venting and journaling should be done here. If I have a regret it is that I did not do that. I chose to do my "journaling" to my wifes old best friend.. lets just say it was not a great choice. I can't say that I had a normal DB walk. Mine was a little "Crazy". Not unlike Tim's. Feedback is important.. thats the main reason I stay a Newcomer. Even though my life is good.. I find it more effective and rewarding to post here. Most of the people I know have moved to other groups.. and I find my time "slipping" away from being able to "Work" here. I said all that just to give some perspective to you Ndsmhelp. It does not matter what you "stitch" looks like.. posting here (DB.com) shows the intent you have... or as I call it.. your heart.

" There are more people reading than posting to you so sometimes what we write helps them even if they don't chime in. Plus all the different sitchs keep things balanced out."

And that just makes my "statement" more clear.

"I know it's far from over, Bill....no matter which way things go. I also know, from past experience that these feelings can be fleeting for me."

It is never over.. the "Work".. the "Work" just feels like a lesser load.. it becomes easier.. and more rewarding. You chose this path in life (marriage) because you wanted to be with "someone" come hel* or high water. Don't give up.. don't loose sight of what you committed to. Even if you fail.. you still win.. you walk away knowing you did everything you could to the best of your ability. When you see the fleeting.. do something to draw her closer. Show her that you will be there.. if you show her with your actions.. she will understand.. even if she says she doesn't.

"Sometimes, especially over the last few weeks, I feel like I shouldn't even be posting any more."

This I don't really understand... let me put it to you this way.. once you get your "mind" straight.. you could help a lot of people here (DB.com). You could be a Bworl.. or a Forrest Gump.. or a Coach.. It's in you.. you just have not grabbed a hold of it yet. If you resemble me at all.. and I think you do.. you just need that "extra" personal touch. I still think you need a close personal mentor to "help" you.

"There are some sad stories on this site, and many people going through hell."

This was the first time I could "see" your perspective changing some.

"Bill, Forrest...if someone had told me 6 months ago, I could "make friends" with someone on an internet message board, I would have told them they were crazy. I know have said it before, but "Thanks"...for staying with me, for advising me and looking out for me.....once again, somehow, some day...a cold one, a game of pool and some wings."

Crazy can happen anywhere. The one thing you never expect to happen.. always will. Maybe I am speaking for Bill here.. but we don't needs Thanks.. you show us Thanks by getting this right.. and being an Advanced DAM. Show us.. you can do this and make a lasting change.

The "drinks" and pool and wings.. sounds good.. you may have to look around to find me. I am all about a free night out!!

"I'm not a big "power of positive thinking" kind of person, but I do think it's possible for us to create what it is that we fear subconsciously."

Based on that.. if you can create you own fear.. why could you not change it into something different? The world has taught me.. people can see your fears.. even if they don't know you. I know for a fact if you seem like you have no fear.. people can see that too. I can't imagine that.. the people closest to us.. can't see the same thing.

"I wish that I knew what I know now
When I was younger.
I wish that I knew what I know now
When I was stronger."

You may not be younger..

You can be Stronger.

Cause now you are.

Keep your head up...

And Always...

ndsmhelp,
Don't ever stop posting, or commenting. It's because of people like you, Cookie, FG, BWorl, Coach, SMW, Mike, Gypsy, Bridge, that I finally figured out what I needed most...to be the best Goldey I could be, regardless of what happens in my sitch. Turns out, you have a fairly happy ending. The kind I dream about.
I won't ever get what I'm looking for until I have my own act together. Period.
Thanks to YOU, for sharing yourself so freely. Hugs and Peace.

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Most of the people I know have moved to other groups.. and I find my time "slipping" away from being able to "Work" here. I said all that just to give some perspective to you Ndsmhelp. It does not matter what you "stitch" looks like.. posting here (DB.com) shows the intent you have... or as I call it.. your heart.

Do you mean that you are no longer able to "work" on yourself by posting here? I think that is how I was feeling, but for me sort of a limbo..not divorced, not separated and according to my wife, not piecing. Then it got to a point where it seems like all I was doing was posting about these great times we are having, with a rant / vent thrown in because she won't tell me everything is going to be OK....something I guess I have no right to hear from her now anyway.

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Even if you fail.. you still win.. you walk away knowing you did everything you could to the best of your ability. When you see the fleeting.. do something to draw her closer. Show her that you will be there.. if you show her with your actions.. she will understand.. even if she says she doesn't.

That is what, I think, has changed recently....the distant and cool times are still there on occasion. I find it easier to look past them, or try something different to draw her closer, or draw her out. Maybe she no longer feels that fear or awkwardness because most times it's just not there.

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This I don't really understand... let me put it to you this way.. once you get your "mind" straight.. you could help a lot of people here (DB.com). You could be a Bworl.. or a Forrest Gump.. or a Coach.. It's in you.. you just have not grabbed a hold of it yet. If you resemble me at all.. and I think you do.. you just need that "extra" personal touch. I still think you need a close personal mentor to "help" you.

Hmmmm...that's some big shoes to fill my friend. I am not going anywhere, so we'll see what happens. At least I can't get sued for malpractice, right??

Have to come up with a catchy sig line...."Do Work" is already taken.

Tim(NDS)(Grasshopper)(Lucky Cricket)

Hi nds. I'm still here following along. Just wanted to give you a wave.

Also wanted to say keep posting. Your sitch has helped me alot, as well as your feedback on my thread.

Hey Steady...waving back and just stopped in on your thread. Just a hijack about my own issues with drinking and my wife. It's tough, as you know, biting your tongue and not saying anything, but right now I am trying to stay focused on the sitch in general and hope as time passes we are able to work past it. We'll see how it goes.

We had a pretty mellow weekend. My wife had plans to go out with the girls on Friday night, and I was glad to see that as she really has not been out away from me much. Seems as though the "shine" has worn off the best friend or something, and she really does not have much of friend circle.

I guess, in some ways, it is good thing that she seems to no longer seek out time away from me and home, but that was actually helping me a little with my own GAL and that "separation anxiety" I seem to get when she is out and about on her own.

Anyway, Friday I did not get to see her before she went out, but she sent me a text to ask me to get dog food, which I did...phone died by the time I got home so I put in on the charger. It was my late night, so by the time a got dog food, got home and got finished up doing a few things around the house it was about 11PM.

Turned on the phone to check messages and there are 4 from my wife over the last 2 hours....

"did you get dog food?"

"hello. why aren't you answering me?"

"did you feed my boy"

"where are you? did you get food and feed the dog?"

...just a side note on text and relying on cell phones. We have a land line and I was home...WTF?

So, I text her...dog is fed..having fun? where did you guys end up?

Wife says.."we are at XXXX, and having fun. is it too late for you to come out and have a beer with us?"

Should have said yes but went anyway, for one beer and some chicken wings. The girls were all happy to see me and I got a round of hugs and kisses from them.

Wife blew them off and spent the rest of the time there with me and chatted, telling me how she was a bit annoyed with a couple of the girls and all the female drama...best friend included. Wife had a little buzz so we left one car there and picked it up in the morning.

On the way home we made plans for dinner on Saturday, but when the time came, after work, she asked of we could cancel because she was tired, and wanted to stay home, make dinner and relax...asked me to stop and pick up some things at the store. We had a nice dinner, a few drinks, listened to music and played a game.

Sunday was the Giants game and she invited her brother and SIL over after the game. I went to visit my mother, ran some errands, washed my car, and got back to watch the last quarter with her.

I know she was tired, and during the day seemed a little distant, maybe just focused on the day, I don't know. I made the mistake of asking her if she was OK, or mad about something.

These are questions or comments that since the bomb I have avoided like the plague. In the year prior to the bomb, I "took her temperature" almost daily....constantly asking her what was wrong, or what was bothering her or if she was mad at me.

I asked her once on Sunday. The second time I asked her she said "Do you remember what makes me mad?...you asking me 100 times if I am mad"....point taken. Felt at that point that I may have reminded her of a little bad behavior of mine, but things were fine during the time her family was there. We got things together for a late afternoon dinner with her brother and had a nice evening.

After they left, both of us were tired and later fell asleep in the living room watching TV. I woke up about 11, said good night and left her on the couch, where she stayed for the night. That was the first time all week she had slept on the couch.

I am at work today, and she is off. My plan this week is to ease up a little on the partying with her and try to get some time in around the house catching up for winter. The last 6 months were her has gone so fast, and most of our time together has been devoted to fun....it really is time to try to progress things in another direction and see what that brings to the sitch.

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....it really is time to try to progress things in another direction and see what that brings to the sitch.

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
(Ancient words of wisdom)

Alright, I'll admit that I may be focusing on a single phrase and perhaps taking it a bit out of context, but humor me.

Given that your situation is rather unique on this board in that you and your wife have all the appearances of a fairly good, interactive relationship, I am certain that you have goals in mind for the relationship between your wife and you.

I am also completely certain that your main goal is for her to pronounce to you at some point that she has seen and believes in your changes and no longer desires for the two of you to part.

I believe it's coming. In time. Though I know you worry over this.

But what about goals along the way? Things that you wanted/hoped to see begin to happen that might indicate that perhaps the tide was beginning to turn in your favor?

I only ask because with the comment above, you seem to be suggesting the need for some changes, presumably to see some positive developments in your situation.

You know me Tim. I see positives galore.

Perhaps not the ONE you want the most, but lots of positives all the same. She has clearly softened towards you, even in a sitch where she has always been more loving towards you than most potential walk away spouses.

Now...if you are simply indicating your ever present need to get more normalcy in your life together, then I understand and retract my concerns. But if you are suggesting that you're NOT seeing results with your current approach, I humbly disagree.

You yourself have told us that the social activities are normal for you and your wife, though perhaps the frequency is a bit higher than normal. Keep in mind that your wife, I believe, is enjoying a renaissance of sorts in her life with you. Many of these things that you are now enjoying have been denied to her for some time prior to the most recent bomb. Or, if they were present, they came with recriminations that made them less than enjoyable.

Things are proceeding very nicely in my opinion.

Don't create trouble for yourself.

Though I would hate for you to become lazy and presumptious, my advice to you would be to REST. And to ENJOY. Embrace the moments you have together and be less critical about the specifics. Look to what is important. How does she respond to you? Is she relaxed, comfortable, at peace with herself in these moments? If the answer to these questions is yes, then I think you're right where you need to be.

As I see your sitch, you are wearing her resistance down with the honesty of your changes and the commitment of your devotion to her. As time goes on, each day is evidence to her that what she sees in front of her is real, that the man in front of her that seems to be too good to be true is, in fact, true and all hers.

Have confidence in you. And have confidence in her and the love the two of you have.

Blessings,

Bill

Another slow late night at work....reading through some old posts and found this...had almost forgotten about it.

I wrote a "Dear AWAW" letter when Smartcookie had that thread going...sorry SC, I know that was my idea.

Forrest took it and added his take, sort of "in between the lines".

The lines in quotes are mine and the others FG added. It still just tears my heart out when I read it, mostly because of what the wordsmith added....can't make it through the whole thing dry eyed.

As my wife and I are at the 6 month mark since the bomb, seemingly doing well, but with pretty much no talk of the R or marriage, I am tempted at times to give it to her.

I have a hand written copy I wrote out back in August, sealed in an envelope on my desk.....still not enough nerve, though.

"Dear AWAW,"

"Since the time has not yet come for you to open up to me and have a conversation about our marriage and relationship,"

As much as I want to now.

"I thought I would write you a note."

From the heart. This is the way I feel.

"When you finally came to me with your decision to end the marriage, I know it was not a decision you came to easily."

I questioned why. I wanted to understand why you chose to be without me. I never wanted to be without you.

"You put up with a lot from me and gave me all the time in the world to be the husband I should have been, and I let you down."

I did the same for you. I knew who you were from day one. I don't know what happened.. but we both drifted apart.

"I know saying "I am sorry" does not make up for that. I let you down, I broke my promise to cherish you for the rest of my life and allowed you to drift farther and farther away from me as the years went by."

I was hoping you would get over it. I had no idea the hurt you held close. Even if I did understand.. what could I say or do to make it better. I tried.. really I did.

"So many chances I had to reach out and pull you back to me, and I let you drift away....farther and farther, until you were just out of reach."

Now.. I just can't reach you. I fight myself some. You just seem to lose me at times. I don't know what to do. I want to show you I love you.. but you seem so distant. Oh.. that hurts.

"I suppose after a while the distance for you was just too great. Was it an arm's length, a foot or a mile? What does it matter?"

I lost you. The person I knew you could be. In that.. I lost me. I did not mean for that to happen.. it just did. What can I do.. that will make you see?

"As hard as all of those years you spent unhappy were, I know how hard the last 4 months have been on you."

See now you see me as unhappy. I shine in that. I saw you too. Just had no idea what to do.

"I am sure when you finally summoned up enough courage to tell me what you wanted, you were hoping for an end to the hurt, the pain and the drama you had endured all those years."

You don't know how many times.. I have felt just like that. I felt it to. What does a person do? If I could have taken it away.. I would have. Instead.. I made thing worse. In not knowing what to do.. I let you down! I let me down too. I wanted so much more.

"Your kind heart, and, my hope is, the love you still feel for me somewhere inside stopped you from abruptly ending the relationship."

No.. I can see this hurts you. I just want a change. Let me show you the love. It has always been there.. even if you could not see it.

"You didn't leave, nor did you tell me I had to, but it was over, you said, and I had no choice but to believe that and accept it."

I am happy you did not leave.. you gave me the chance to show you how I felt. At times.. I doubted you could see it.. and I acted the fool. What did you expect me to do?

"Did you stay because you had to?"

I know you did not have to do this.. I thank you for doing it.

"Because you wanted to give me that one last chance."

I never wanted a last chance.

"Could you possibly still care that much about me, after what I have done, to worry about hurting me? How confusing this is for both of us. Can either one of us have any less pain or confusion than the other?"

No.

"Has the last four months just prolonged these feelings for you, or made them memories that seem to be more distant as the days and weeks pass?"

God I hope so.

"Some days the distance between us is so great, I can barely see your silhouette on the horizon. Than there are days you are so close, I can feel your breath on my neck and smell the sweet scent of your skin."

That is all I ever wanted.

"I cherish the close days, and fear the distant ones, but want you to know that you are still here in my heart whatever the space between us."

Please know, in my heart, I love you with all my that I am. I will be forever sorry for what I have done to us, and no matter what path you choose to walk on, I will be on the one next to you, hoping that they cross somewhere down the road.

What can you say? What can you do?

Bill
I guess I was writing as you were posting and missed it.

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Alright, I'll admit that I may be focusing on a single phrase and perhaps taking it a bit out of context, but humor me.

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Now...if you are simply indicating your ever present need to get more normalcy in your life together, then I understand and retract my concerns. But if you are suggesting that you're NOT seeing results with your current approach, I humbly disagree.

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You yourself have told us that the social activities are normal for you and your wife, though perhaps the frequency is a bit higher than normal. Keep in mind that your wife, I believe, is enjoying a renaissance of sorts in her life with you. Many of these things that you are now enjoying have been denied to her for some time prior to the most recent bomb. Or, if they were present, they came with recriminations that made them less than enjoyable.

Yes...you focused just a bit too much on that one phrase.

What I meant was more of change in direction for myself, rather than the situation.

You know that I have not worked very hard at GAL or activities outside of the marriage....those are things that have been hard for me because of, as you say, the uniqueness of the sitch. These should be more of a priority for me no matter how well things appear to be going. They can only help if in fact we end up staying together and working on the marriage.

There are also numerous things, I guess still GAL things, that I promised myself I would accomplish....more work around the house, home improvement, getting financial affairs in order, getting healthy, exercising.

The social life is great, but we have settled into a rut and it is not just social activities that involve alcohol....too much at home, too much in our spare time....I have never tried very hard to get us involved in more constructive activities together, or done them on my own to see if she follows along. It always falls back to a night out, or a show or weekend away.

Trust me, we are having a ball, but we are not kids and not rich...it is the normalcy I am seeking and sometimes wonder how she will react to a change....does she want it, too...or will it affect the sitch negatively??

She is for the most part more relaxed and comfortable with me...more so the last month or so....as I have said, that is more noticeable recently.

I am not trying to create trouble for myself....only trying to that better husband, person and father that I promised many months back.

Things are good, I admit, but somehow I always thought is was more her allowing me back in...not me working very hard to get back in.

What I did was easy...treat her as though I love her, cherish her and do not want to lose her, because I do. It's the rest that has been hard for me....sometimes I feel like I am taking the easy way out rather than working on the more substantial things.

Don't worry, I am not going to screw this up...just trying to get a handle on things and make sure I keep it on course, even if it means a slight correction in the course.

Tim

"Do you mean that you are no longer able to "work" on yourself by posting here?"

I learn a lot from people posting. I guess you could say I work on myself all the time. Sometimes I will write something.. come back and read it later.. and it has a different meaning. I am of the opinion we never stop working on ourselves.

Most of the people I know have moved to other groups.. and I find my time "slipping" away from being able to "Work" here. I said all that just to give some perspective to you Ndsmhelp. It does not matter what you "stitch" looks like.. posting here (DB.com) shows the intent you have... or as I call it.. your heart.

I wrote that saying.. the people that I know from here and have "worked" with have kinda spread out.. and my schedule has become hard for me to find time to post. In the scheme of things all of that does not matter.. If I make 10 mins a day.. or 10 hours.. to post here (DB.com) then I am giving back.. or hopefully helping someone. I have come under fire for not having my "stitch" written out here.. you have come under fire for "having it all" and not seeing it. Again in the scheme of things that does not matter. If you have something valuable to add.. add it.

"Hmmmm...that's some big shoes to fill my friend. I am not going anywhere, so we'll see what happens. At least I can't get sued for malpractice, right??"

Trust me.. my shoes are no bigger than yours. Does not matter who you are.. we all show up here (DB.com) all wearing the same size. Its what you choose to do with what you learn that makes the difference on the size you walk out of here with.

Lucky Cricket

I hear you....guess maybe it is just a matter of me not really thinking that what I have to say may be of value to someone else.

That may come from my sitch and the fact that it is quite a bit different than most on here.

Also, I feel like I never did a stellar job at following most of the DB principals in general. The change in behavior towards my wife was easy for me...it was an awakening, or an epiphany...whatever you want to call it, it stayed with me, has become a part of me....I truly never find myself having to "work" at that. I had reached the bottom in that respect and there was no where else to go but up.

The rest, GAL..detaching, etc....those things as you well know, were and continue to be issues for me, and in the long run can only help the R if we continue the same path we are on now.

So I guess that's about it....maybe just more "paralysis from analysis"....not wanting to pipe in or say the wrong thing unless I know it is exactly right....LOL....but will keep reading and coming here, and chiming in when it feels right.

....and journaling, I suppose.

nds, I can relate to what you are saying about not being good at the 'GAL' aspect of DB'ing. I have two little kids, a 2 hour commute one way to my job, no friends here (moved here 2 years ago) so it's very hard for me to get out of the house.

I was told to GAL inside the house. Hobbies, home projects, etc... that opened my eyes to the fact that GAL'ing doesn't necessarily mean getting away from the house to do things.

I've come to the conclusion that GAL'ing stands for many things. Keeping the focus on ourselves rather than our W's or our sitch. Doing things that make us happy - that includes making the changes we want to make to make us better people. It includes taking care of the house and kids (if we have them). It encompases anything that shows you can be responsible and effective at what you are doing.

So in this sense, you have been GAL'ing all along. It doesn't matter if it comes easy or not. Treating my W with love and respect has become easy for me also. The light switch went off when the bomb hit and my eyes have been opened ever since. It has become very easy for me to look and see the things my W and family need me to do. My focus is in a totally different place - and I can't say it's because I created the new found focus. It happened to me. The part I played was to not allow myself to become distracted by anything that doesn't matter.

Interacting with your W is part of GAL'ing. It's getting a life - and that includes with your W. It's when we depend only on our W and become so needy that they are the only source we can turn to in order to be happy, or productive or alive that it becomes a problem. And believe me, they feel it if this happens. When you become an independent person who can stand on his own two feet without depending on someone else to create your happines, then they feel that. That's the man they fell in love with.

This is what the impact of GAL'ing has. You have it. You do it. Make no mistake about that.

You are in a phase where you want you and your W to me more responsible with other things that matter 'outside' of your R. I quote it because it isn't trully outside but a part of your R. Planning life and taking care of chores and house stuff is part of both of your lives, therefore part of your relationship.

You are doing great. I don't think there's anything wrong with where your head is at - except if moving into that area has a negative impact on your R.

This is all just my opinion, so anyone feel free to chime in to correct me.

A comment on whether you have anything to contribute or not. All you can do is present what you have done and what has worked and not worked for you. It's up to the person you are posting to find the diamonds. Ten different people can read the same post and get 10 different things from it. It relates to where they are at in their own growth and individual sitch. It's not up to us to spout wisdom but to merely share our experiences. When you do that you will be surprised at how many diamonds get plucked from your writing.

Good post steady. I think you do have it.

It has given some quick insight on GAL; because I am in the same sitch with 2 small kids, and not very much time or money to GAL outside the home.

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Interacting with your W is part of GAL'ing. It's getting a life - and that includes with your W. It's when we depend only on our W and become so needy that they are the only source we can turn to in order to be happy, or productive or alive that it becomes a problem. And believe me, they feel it if this happens. When you become an independent person who can stand on his own two feet without depending on someone else to create your happines, then they feel that. That's the man they fell in love with.

Well said. Should be required ready for "newbie" DAMs.

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I was told to GAL inside the house. Hobbies, home projects, etc... that opened my eyes to the fact that GAL'ing doesn't necessarily mean getting away from the house to do things.

I've come to the conclusion that GAL'ing stands for many things. Keeping the focus on ourselves rather than our W's or our sitch. Doing things that make us happy - that includes making the changes we want to make to make us better people. It includes taking care of the house and kids (if we have them). It encompases anything that shows you can be responsible and effective at what you are doing.

Steady...that was my point..I really have not done a good job at those things. In the beginning I was all over it, but as time went on and she softened, I found myself just remaining focused on her, wanting to spend as much time with her as I could, doing all the crazy stuff we do.

That is what put me into this limbo land...mostly good things between us, no commitment from her for the R or marriage, and me plugging along trying to remain close and treat her right...most times at the expense of my own goals. Not all bad, but still not what the process, at least in my mind, was supposed to be.

Sounds crazy....but I almost feel I would have done a better job on myself if she had not been so receptive to my changes early on....she did not make me work very hard...LOL...and I count myself as lucky that things have progressed as well as they have.

Guess in some ways, even though things seem good, I am disappointed in myself for not carrying through with the original promises I made to her and myself.....basically just to simplify and organize our lives.."home", house and finances....to be together or not, so that in the end we both would be OK.

The most important one was done...my change in behavior towards her, and that will stand forever. The rest, I just have to stop focusing on what I have not done in the last 6 months, and get my arse in gear.

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Interacting with your W is part of GAL'ing. It's getting a life - and that includes with your W.

Anyway...if interacting with my wife is GAL, than I will say I must be doing something right....interaction for us would be an understatement, I guess.

Things are still calm and she really does seem very relaxed around me, no matter what we may be doing.

We have been either at home, trying to be a little more normal, or going out here and there..nothing crazy..at least not quite as crazy as in the past.

The other night we were out for a beer, wings and a game of pool..home and to sleep early for a change. The place we were at is having a Halloween party next week and I asked if she wanted to go...no questions, no excuses....just a "Yes...we need to get costumes"....not a worry over whether anyone else will be there, or if she may have had plans, etc....just a "yes, let's go".

Last night we drove down to a Halloween store and got costumes and makeup...then went out for a bite to eat.....once again, home early and in bed at a reasonable time.

The time together recently has been filled with conversation about the election...something very different for us, and part of her GAL whether she realizes it or not...just like the football thing. I have told her several times how it is good to see her take an interest in something she knew nothing about, learn about it, ask questions and have fun with it.

Last night as we talked about a heated email election conversation going on between my brothers and me, she paid me a compliment about my word and writing skills. Compliments have been few these past 6 months, almost like she has been afraid to give me any idea that there are still things she may like about me.

Along with the compliments come a little chop busting and good natured ribbing...something else that may have been lacking the last few months.

We seem to have reached a point where we can joke about a shortcoming one of us has or "make fun" of each other, without the other taking it personal.

During the marriage, she had become so sensitive to any comment or perceived criticism that I could not look at her sideways without her thinking I was hurling an insult, or putting her down.

Also...the comments a while ago about her sleeping on the couch....one night, I think, in almost 2 weeks now. If Bill was right and this may be a gauge in where she is at in the R, than maybe what I am seeing and feeling from her is for real. It is the longest stretch off the couch in quite some time.

One more thing I wanted to mention...as my wife and I seem to get more comfortable, and the "normal" conversation increases, I noticed something.

She seems to be slightly bothered by the breaks sometimes. We will be chatting, into some heated discussion or just yacking about nothing and there will be a few moments of silence....and she will say "So that's it..nothing more to talk about....you're all done talking to me??"

That happened last night and I swear there was something she wanted to add, or had something on her mind, but I didn't want to push or read too much into it.

When she gave me the "what are you all done talking?"...I said jeez wife, we just got done with a 15 minute conversation..we were talking for the whole ride..what do want to talk about??

She said "I don't know...we should just talk"...we do talk all the time..."I know..maybe we should talk more"...about what, I said.

...and a pause..."Oh I don't know...let's just listen to some music...you big jerk", with a laugh and a slap on the arm.

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She seems to be slightly bothered by the breaks sometimes. We will be chatting, into some heated discussion or just yacking about nothing and there will be a few moments of silence....and she will say "So that's it..nothing more to talk about....you're all done talking to me??"

Sounds like she's fishing for more. I would get one of the women to comment for you.
Try a good open ended question - "is there something else you would to discuss?"
IDK the DAM in me stumbles here as well.

Last night I thought that...maybe not fishing for me to say something, but more like she had something she wanted to get out.

The last time she said "we NEED to talk" I got a reminder about the sitch.

This was more of playful..."Yep...we SHOULD talk"...."but, oh, forget it".

Other times, when she mentions the breaks in conversation, it just seems like she thinks we should be able to talk for hours and hours without running out of things to say....which at times we do, and that's why I find it odd that she worries about it.

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Along with the compliments come a little chop busting and good natured ribbing...something else that may have been lacking the last few months.

We seem to have reached a point where we can joke about a shortcoming one of us has or "make fun" of each other, without the other taking it personal.

My W and I are into this phase also. You have to think that the R has relaxed quite a bit in order to joke around, bust chops, and rib each other about shortcomings. I've noticed this in my R also. It's a good sign.

Sounds to me like she really enjoys talking to you. It's probably one of her love languages - along with quality time. It's filling her love bucket and she likes how it feels. Just my opinion though.

As far as the GAL'ing. I asked my W the other night about the two of us working on a Christmas list together. She agreed. You might want to pick something around the house - finances, organization, etc... and ask if she'd like to spend time with you working on it. My W and I have talked about getting a dining room table and a new couch. House stuff, things that need to get done, and working on it together. Just a thought.

Go with your guy on the feeling she wants to add something but holds herself back. She may be on the brink of telling you something good, but keeping herself from saying it for some reason or another - speculation of course. But your gut is a good compass. Whatever it is will spill out eventually. Time.

On the pauses in conversation - maybe it's her fear that you will run out of things to say to each other or revert back to when you guys may have not been talking much. Again, just a guess.

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My W and I are into this phase also. You have to think that the R has relaxed quite a bit in order to joke around, bust chops, and rib each other about shortcomings. I've noticed this in my R also. It's a good sign.

Sounds to me like she really enjoys talking to you. It's probably one of her love languages - along with quality time. It's filling her love bucket and she likes how it feels. Just my opinion though.

For the most part it is no different than what we used to do...our friends used to call us the "Honeymooners"..remember how Ralph and Alice used to go at it???...but since the bomb things were a little different. Now she will go right after me....sometimes even ribbing me about my past bad behavior...maybe her way of getting it off her chest without actually having an R talk or being too serious about it.

...and as far as the LL's....just can't really get much of a handle on that..maybe I need to read the book again. For example...touch. She loves to have her feet rubbed or a back massage but never returns it. As far as I can tell, except for the talking and time we spend together, or her making dinner and cooking something special...she does not show her love language by using her own on me.

I don't believe she is at a point where she is comfortable doing anything that may be taken as her softening towards me. I know that doesn't make sense considering our sitch, but I think she is still very aware and guarded in those actions....or still just isn't feeling it.

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You might want to pick something around the house - finances, organization, etc... and ask if she'd like to spend time with you working on it. My W and I have talked about getting a dining room table and a new couch. House stuff, things that need to get done, and working on it together. Just a thought.

That is actually my goal for the upcoming weeks. I know she wants new LF furniture and we have talked about painting...things like that. My plan is to just get started and see if she joins in.....sometimes I still go back and forth...wondering if I should "act as if" I am still leaving, or "as if I am staying"....it's been less than a month since the last reminder that I am leaving, you remember.

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Go with your guy on the feeling she wants to add something but holds herself back. She may be on the brink of telling you something good, but keeping herself from saying it for some reason or another - speculation of course. But your gut is a good compass. Whatever it is will spill out eventually. Time.

..or another reminder of the sitch..who knows? The last time she gave me the reminder we were having a good time, on our way into the bedroom to ML...so nothing would surprise me.

.............she is out with the girls tonight and I am feeling like I need some time home alone...tired and ready for a day off. She was cool and relaxed before she went out and told me if I was out and needed a ride home to call her because she was not drinking....now that would be a switch, her coming to get me. I didn't ask where she was going or tell her I was staying home.

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..and as far as the LL's....just can't really get much of a handle on that..

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As far as I can tell, except for the talking and time we spend together, or her making dinner and cooking something special...she does not show her love language by using her own on me.

Here's your sign.

Are you just trying to beat me out for DAM of the Year?

Captain Obvious to the rescue. Here I come to save the day!
Cheers

Yes..I know I need someone to pull the blinders off sometimes.

I think what I was trying to say was, other than those things I mentioned, there are not a lot of times I "feel the love".

We are still doing the same crazy stuff, and that leads to some very close, intimate times....but it is always during the party times.

During the normal every day she never seems to seek out that closeness, like she is afraid I will get the wrong idea. Why such a difference...just the alcohol?

Recently she seems more relaxed and comfortable during the everyday, so maybe it's coming....it would just be nice to have her initiate a hug, kiss or simple touch. With all we do....like I said...very guarded about showing any affection.

So her LLs are quality time, WOA and acts of service. Sounds like yours are words of affirmation and touch, yes? You are not feeling the love because you are not getting your love itch scratched. I am in the same boat with you on that. I just keep reminding myself that my W is healing and I need to be patient and consistent in my actions. Cookie told me to learn to fill up my own love buckets, I do that by self-talk about things - disputing any negative feelings that start to come up. I then realise it's not all my problem and keep working on myself and for myself. I know she loves me but my W has her own issues that are a struggle for her. Our R isn't where it needs to be but I can cope with things better.

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Cookie told me to learn to fill up my own love buckets, I do that by self-talk about things - disputing any negative feelings that start to come up.

I keep trying vodka, tequila or a nice micro brew....that's not going to work?...thought maybe I had a hole in my love bucket. I keep filling it up, and the next thing you know, it's empty again.

Maybe I need a bottle of stop leak?

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I keep trying vodka, tequila or a nice micro brew....that's not going to work?...thought maybe I had a hole in my love bucket. I keep filling it up, and the next thing you know, it's empty again.

No that's the luv bucket you're talking about.

...and just so you know, I WAS joking. We are actually getting that under control..slowly but surely.

I remember Cookie talking about excess in reference to getting her love bucket filled...cooking way too much food..overdoing on entertaining.

My wife just sent me a text, she spent the day home cooking..soup, mac and cheese, tomato sauce, chicken wings and guacamole....guess I will have some good leftovers for the next couple of days.

Either she is trying to fatten me up, or I need to step up my "acts of service", right??

Anyway....things seem good right now, and I feel like I am in a good place...both of us really. I am getting over wanting to hear the words from her and paying attention to her actions. She is calm and relaxed. I am hoping it stays like this, but feel better able to handle a down swing if it comes along.

"but feel better able to handle a down swing if it comes along."

What will you do.. to slow the down swing?

Originally Posted By: Forrest Gump

"but feel better able to handle a down swing if it comes along."

What will you do.. to slow the down swing?

Good question, and will there be a down swing?

I know one thing, even though I am better, I still have a hard time with the limbo...no not the dance.

To you and Bill, and I guess everyone else from what you have said...all these months, it has somehow been "obvious" that she is not going anywhere, at least not yet. You always told me "if she was going she would be gone".

For me, I think back about all the years she put up with me, waited patiently for things to change and finally made her decision to end the marriage....all the while we had what was on the outside a pretty normal marriage.

Don't get me wrong, I knew she was unhappy and I got the 2 previous bombs, but this last time she went one full year telling me everything was "OK"....pretty much lying to me. I know that doesn't sound right, but really, wasn't she?

Not.."I am trying", "We need to seek help"...not "You are screwing up again".

No, when I would ask her she would tell me everything was fine..it wasn't us it was something else...her job, her weight, the house...the weather....So in all my denseness, I believed her.

....and now, I have to tell myself, without being able to ask, to talk, to discuss..that what I am seeing now is her wanting to work on the marriage..her not wanting to leave or have me leave. That she sees the changes...she is waiting..I am regaining her trust.

Afraid to ask because of what I may hear....limbo.

I know I didn't answer your question...because I am really not sure what I will do to slow the down swings, other than keep doing what I have been.

Guess the question just made me think...if there is another down swing...if I get another reminder...what will that mean? Why is she still so afraid of committing to the marriage?

If she was able to hide her true feelings so well before, how do I trust that what I "see" now may be her true feelings.... Why should I trust her?

What makes you think that during that year she wasn't doing just what she said? I think sometimes we tend to vilify the spouse who finally says "enough is enough," not that I'm suggesting you are doing that here. Perhaps she was trying to tell herself that things were fine, that any unhappiness she was experiencing WAS in fact due to weight, clothes, the house, etc...

I don't know, just adding to the pondering.

My guess is that in many of these situations where the spouse up and walks away one day, saying that they've tried to make it work, they actually believe they have. They've done it silently of course, which is a little rough on us, but I think in some cases they honestly do believe they have tried to fix things.

I don't think your wife is working on your marriage right now.

I think she is enjoying the marriage that she always wanted. More specifically, I think she is enjoying the relationship with the man she loves as she always dreamed it would be.

Maybe it will turn out that there's not a lot more work that needs to be done. Who knows?

I do believe that if a spouse has decided for it to be over, they will make it be over. That doesn't necessarily mean that they will push for an official divorce, but I believe they will move on. Perhaps with another person, perhaps just with a life on their own. Your wife has never done that.

The time will come, presumably sometime AFTER you've been released from this threat hanging over you, that the two of you can begin communication about how better to love and care for each other. I think you've come so far in this area, and I will just encourage you to remain consistent in the husband that you've become.

Blessings,

Bill

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My guess is that in many of these situations where the spouse up and walks away one day, saying that they've tried to make it work, they actually believe they have. They've done it silently of course, which is a little rough on us, but I think in some cases they honestly do believe they have tried to fix things.

I agree, and there are things that I can think back about that may tell me, in her own way, she was trying. She has never been one to open up and say what was on her mind..to me or anyone else.

In hindsight, if my behavior had been different during that year..what I promised her it would be..things may have been different. If she knew I was really trying, maybe she would have opened up...tried in different ways...so that we could have been on the same page during that year.

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I don't think your wife is working on your marriage right now.

I think she is enjoying the marriage that she always wanted. More specifically, I think she is enjoying the relationship with the man she loves as she always dreamed it would be.

Yes...the "relationship" we have now seems to be good. I still question what exactly it is based on, but there is no way I can deny that the 2 of us still click on most things...and it is not because of any trying or phony actions on my part.

Nor, hers...one thing I will say about my wife is, she is who she is. I need to remind myself of that, regardless of what I said about her "lying" to me and herself all those years. There is not a phony or pretentious bone in her body.

I know you have reminded me at times to treat it as a new relationship and maybe that is where she is right now...that waiting, watching...if that's the case than I have to be consistent and build on it, as should be done in any new relationship.

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I do believe that if a spouse has decided for it to be over, they will make it be over. That doesn't necessarily mean that they will push for an official divorce, but I believe they will move on. Perhaps with another person, perhaps just with a life on their own. Your wife has never done that.

"If she was leaving, she would be gone".
Forrest Gump

You know when FG said that, I always thought gone..physically..not emotionally. In the beginning after the bomb, she was gone. Sometimes I still feel that, but it is rare, and even more rare that it is an overpowering feeling like it was.

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The time will come, presumably sometime AFTER you've been released from this threat hanging over you, that the two of you can begin communication about how better to love and care for each other. I think you've come so far in this area, and I will just encourage you to remain consistent in the husband that you've become.

That's my "limbo"...I want the communication.
I am consistent if I am anything....good or bad.

Now...have to think about FG's question...what will I do to slow the down swings??..."work"?...there is a lot more to it than being a good "husband" I suppose??

Tim

Journaling...think I need to get on here more often and keep track of the day to day?...always quick to get on and vent or whine, but lately not much to vent or whine about so......

Back up for a minute to Saturday night. Plan was to stay home while she went out with the girls...got bored and GAL'd my a$$ off...ended up at the bar wife and I frequent...band playing..ran into some friends and closed the place up...had a ball.

Here's the interesting part of the evening.

Through some miscommunication and poor cell service, wife and I did not connect until 3AM, at which time she found out that I was at the bar, and I found out she was staying at my brother's(she was with SIL). If I did not know better, I would have thought she was reading from an old script of mine, when she finally got me on the cell phone.....

"where are you? I just called the house and left a message?"
-I'm at XXXX having some drinks and listening to the band.
"really? with who?..thought you were staying home."
-got bored, ran into xx and xx...having fun.
"Are you OK to drive?...how long are staying..can you let me know when you get home?"
-not long...I will call you.
"OK...don't forget"

Stayed until they shut the place up..chatted with some friends out in the parking lot....got in the car....cell phone has messages from the last hour since I spoke to wife...LOL...WTF?

"let me know when you are home, OK?"
"are you home"
"hello!"
"what the f***?"
"you home?"
"answer me"

Send her a text to say on my way and I am fine...relax and go to sleep....no response.

From the answering machine at home...best as I can remember...
"Hello..just called to tell you I am staying at SIL's...hello are you home...sleeping?...I will try your cell.

Then the others must have been in between the texts I had already seen.

"Hello..are you there yet...why aren't you answering your phone?"
then..
"You jerk...you better not be home sleeping...would you please just call so I know you are home?"
and the last one.
"I am SO mad at you right now. Would you PLEASE just call me so I know you are home safe?"

Called and got her voice mail so I figured she was sleeping. Checked in with her in the morning and we both laughed about it, but she did make sure that I knew she was just concerned and wanted to make sure I was home safe.

This is the first time since the bomb, even with all we do and as well as we get along, that it felt like she was showing concern for my whereabouts and well being...really....and it kind of felt good to have a little bit of a role reversal.

Like I said, she could have been reading from one of my old scripts...where are you, when will you be home, who are with???

Oh, well...I thought it was cute anyway.

Have to get back and catch up on the rest of the week...which was calm, cool, relaxed and normal stuff.

Tim

More journal for the rest of the week....

Sunday....Birthday party and Giants game at her brother's....good time. She was close all afternoon...sat by me, rested her hand on my leg...poked and tapped me when she got worked up watching the game. We left at half time, went home and watched the rest, relaxed and chatted.

What was significant to me about that day was she included me automatically. Early on, right after the bomb, when I tried to be more social and include myself in things like this, she never seemed quite comfortable about it.

I had separated myself from her family so much over the years that even though she "let me come along".......I believe she took these actions as phony changes on my part. Several times over the last couple of months as things like this have come up she is more apt to say "we have a party at XXXX"....not "I have to go to XXXX, you can come along if you like", or maybe not mention it until the last minute and just go alone.

Monday wife stayed home and cooked all day while I was at work....we just finished up the leftovers last night, so she really went wild and stocked up the fridge. That night when I got home we watched Monday Night Football, relaxed watched some TV and talked....normal every day stuff.

Tuesday I was off and puttered around the house, brought her lunch at work and made us dinner that evening. That night we did have some drinks and one of our "silly nights"....no ML(that time of month), but we had a nice close, affectionate time and lots of fun talking and listening to music. Storms in the area had knocked out our cable, so we actually spent some time playing video games, which we have not done in many years.

At one point during the night as we were talking, there was another one of those moments when she wanted to say something, but didn't. This time she actually told me she wanted to say something, but didn't know how to say it......"You know, the last month or so...you...I don't know...I don't know how to say it".

I asked her if it was something "bad" and she said no, so I told her if she was not comfortable saying it or didn't know how, then wait until she was, and we changed the subject. In hindsight I wish we hadn't, but feel good that I didn't dwell on it and it is not eating me up wondering what it was.

Wednesday we went out after work to get pumpkins and some things for Halloween...early night, as we were both a little tired from the crazy night on Tuesday.

Last night after work we had dinner and together went through the house, picked up, cleaned up, vacuumed and organized for about an hour. We also carved pumpkins together which is something we have never done alone, without my daughter....we each did 2, put in the candles and set them out to admire our work.

We are getting dressed up for a Halloween party tonight, so last night she asked if she could do a practice session on me for the makeup she wants to use.

She was shining last night and we were having fun....while she was doing my makeup she commented that she couldn't believe that I was letting her. I asked why....

Her response was that she had always wanted to do things like this but it seems like we never did....always a reason, always an excuse.....I told her, I don't think we ever asked each other....too many assumptions over the years, and she said maybe.

We ended the evening in the living room on the couch together as I rubbed her legs and feet. When I was ready for bed, I got up and put my hand out for her to come with me....she said "always bossing me around", and got up and walked to the bedroom with me, where we cuddled up and went to sleep.

Halloween party tonight...she just sent me a text pic of her in her costume at work, which I had not seen yet.

Tim

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I asked her if it was something "bad" and she said no, so I told her if she was not comfortable saying it or didn't know how, then wait until she was, and we changed the subject.

Perfect. Absolutely perfect.

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In hindsight I wish we hadn't

No you don't. Your first instincts were right on the mark.

Your patience has gotten better. Keep working on it and you WILL be rewarded.

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She was shining last night

My guess is that she's been shining a LOT lately. I bet you are too. Forrest would be so proud....sniff, sniff....

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When I was ready for bed, I got up and put my hand out for her to come with me....she said "always bossing me around", and got up and walked to the bedroom with me, where we cuddled up and went to sleep.

I hope you can fully appreciate both the beauty and the magnitude of that simple exchange.

You have much to be thankful for. Even with that release that you are still hoping for, you have so much to be thankful for.

She has begun to believe that you are real.

She has begun to believe again in your future together.

The words will come in time.

You damned well better never let her down again. The heart is a fragile thing.

You understand that you can never go back, right? You understand that even after she has released you from your purgatory, the work is not done? The marriage that you are slowly building will take this same kind of loving attention EVERY day, EVERY minute.

Blessings,

Bill

Thanks Bill, I needed to hear that for myself as well.

Cheers

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You damned well better never let her down again. The heart is a fragile thing.

You understand that you can never go back, right? You understand that even after she has released you from your purgatory, the work is not done? The marriage that you are slowly building will take this same kind of loving attention EVERY day, EVERY minute.

Oh my God, how could I? No matter which way this goes, no matter what the future holds for the two of us...the last several manths have made me realize just how much I truly love her, why we ended up together in the first place and how I failed to hold up my end of our promises to each other.

In the beginning we were soul mates, even with our age difference, and over the last few months that connection comes to light more and more....what is missing now is being able to plan and look forward together...to talk about the dreams and goals that I know we both still have.

Will that day come? I don't know, but if does I know it will be just the beginning of another relationship. If it doesn't, than I know the more recent past will be there to erase some of the bad.

I said right from the start of this all I ever wanted was for her to know she didn't do anything wrong, that I loved her and didn't know how to show her and that she deserved better.

I think I accomplished that so far and it is up to me to continue no matter what happens. The rest is up to her and I have accepted that.

Tim

Hope everyone managed to have a nice Halloween....ours didn't turn out quite as we planned but we had fun nonetheless.

We had planned on dressing up and going to a bar / restaurant down the street from us that was having a party and band.

My wife was excited about the costumes and doing our makeup, and she wore her costume to work(she has her own business).

By the time I got home, our neighborhood was over run with kids out trick or treating....my SIL was there so she gave out candy while my wife got me made up for the costume.

We gave out candy in our costumes all night...about 500 pieces...ate dinner in between and by the time it was all over both of us were pretty tired.

I could tell my wife was having second thoughts about going out, as was I, and I gave her an out but she said she was still into it.....communication...turns out we both would have rather just stayed in and relaxed after the days we had.

So off we went...on the way, I asked again if she was sure she still wanted to go out and she said yes.....when we got there I could tell she was tired and told her we did not have to stay. At that point she finally gave in, told me she was tired and just not really into staying. She apologized, told me I could drop her off and come back.

Somehow, in the DB world, that may have made sense....GAL, go have some fun without her.....but I wanted her to know that I was perfectly fine with what ever she decided and that, even though I didn't say anything, I was tired and would have been perfectly happy calling it a night.

I was fine being out, but would have stayed home if she wanted...seems she went because we had plans and maybe thought it was important to me?....Either way, we ended up home early and I think both of us were glad.

When we got there we took off our costumes and I laid on the bed and asked her to sit by me, which she did. I put my arms around her and told her I was tired too, glad to be home, and that she should have just been honest. At first she didn't really believe that I was OK with calling it a night, but I reminded her it was me who asked her first if she just wanted to call it a night...I told her I didn't want her to be disappointed and she pretty much told me the same thing.

She washed her makeup off, I jumped in the shower and when I came out she was relaxing on the couch. I sat by her, we watched the news together as I gently rubbed her legs and she started to doze off.

I woke her and told her I was going to bed....once again, asking her to come with me and not to sleep on the couch....I said.."It's early, we are both tired. Come to bed and let me rub your back until you fall asleep...it helps me sleep".....she said..really?...I won't say no...and I said "I know and I wouldn't ask unless I really wanted to".

....and off we went.

Quote:

Somehow, in the DB world, that may have made sense....GAL, go have some fun without her.....but I wanted her to know that I was perfectly fine with what ever she decided and that, even though I didn't say anything, I was tired and would have been perfectly happy calling it a night.

NDS, That's what I'm struggling with now going from detaching to attaching to the R again. Not as much advice how to advance the R once there is some connection going on.
Cheers

Quote:

NDS, That's what I'm struggling with now going from detaching to attaching to the R again. Not as much advice how to advance the R once there is some connection going on.
Cheers

Coach
For me, I honestly never felt like I detached. I learned to deal with the sitch and accept it to some extent, but because we remained so close I never felt detached.

Last night was one of those times where I waffled...DB or....? We ended up home together, in bed and close, but she told me to drop her off and go have some fun without her.

Which did she really want? Would she have been hurt if I just dropped her home and left, or did she really want some space and time alone.

Not really going nuts over the thoughts, but just pondering....tonight is the same thing. She sent me a text to tell me she wants to stay home tonight and relax...took something out for dinner...asks if it's OK with me.

I get the same question in my head from last night....would it be good DB'ing and a 180 to say...."thanks but I am going out tonight", or just assume that I am past all that at this point?

My instinct, and what I said?? "Sounds good....let me know if you need anything at the store and I'll stop on the way home."

That's what I want...I want to stay home with her...I don't want to have to TRY to be away from her if she is acting like she wants to be with me.

I am not gonna "" anything.

I am just gonna ask.. Tim.. why are you posting more?

Originally Posted By: Forrest Gump

I am not gonna "" anything.

I am just gonna ask.. Tim.. why are you posting more?

I'm sorry...I'll stop.

"I'm sorry...I'll stop."

LOL.. you know better than that!.

It is never my intention.. to get people to stop posting.

LOL.. you know better than that!.

It is never my intention.. to get people to stop posting.

Yes, I know....still thinking about the question...and the one before that.

Wife is down stairs switching a load of laundry out of the washer...just had a sec...yard work....dinner...Giants game...who is this woman???

Tim

"Wife is down stairs switching a load of laundry out of the washer...just had a sec...yard work....dinner...Giants game...who is this woman???"

Lucky Crickets other half?

Wax on to your Wax off?

I know..

The wife you have been missing.

Quote:

...who is this woman???"

Lucky Crickets other half?

Wax on to your Wax off?

I know..

The wife you have been missing.

Maybe...who knows at this point...sure isn't me.

Suppose I have to reach a happy medium where I stop trying to figure it out and just roll with the punches....maybe I am there? Maybe she stopped trying figure it all out?

Funny thing, though....no punches in a while and still don't know how I would take that punch if it came...but I hope I am just a little stronger, and smarter than I was a few months ago....duck and cover.

Still those questions....

What will I do to slow the down swings?? Why am I still posting?

What's missing? You know what I'm thinking....

Tim

Hi nds. Just stopping in to say hello. I'm still following along.

Me too, Steady....just don't seem to have much to say or post about.

Funny how venting and whining comes so easy, but the normal every day gets put off. Still spend quite a lot of time reading on here. Always looking and still trying to learn.

"What will I do to slow the down swings?"

"Why am I still posting?"

Forrest's questions have put me into a little bit of funk....not a bad one, but have me thinking again...maybe over thinking...especially as things are so calm with my wife and I.

Then Bill says "I don't think your wife is working on your marriage right now. I think she is enjoying the marriage that she always wanted."

What's that saying? "If you don't know where you are going, how will you know when you get there?"...something like that.

All those years of controlling her...now what do I want? Ultimately, isn't it her that is going to decide where this all goes...what my final destination is going to be? She is in control now even if she doesn't realize, or want to be....still no balance.

I have learned a lot about her feelings and what she has gone through, and I wonder now if she has any inkling of what I may be feeling....and more importantly does she care?

Guess I am just feeling a little weird lately...health problems for my mother, wife's birthday coming up, then the holidays after that....wondering where we will be this time next year.

So...feeling a little less pensive than I was last time I posted...my roller coaster, not my wife's.

Things are still pretty good, and she really is mostly calm and relaxed around me.

We have slowed down quite a bit on the crazy stuff...drinking and partying, going out. The normal days and evenings at home seem to be outnumbering the time away from home, and that was a goal, so I will see how that goes and what it brings.

She brought up redecorating the living room and new furniture / flat screen TV...basically filling me in on how she wanted everything to turn out when it was done.

Conversations like this have been rare. After the bomb, when I had said there were things that needed to be done around the house she gave the impression that she really did not want me involved....like she was thinking that I would be gone and if it was going to get done, she should do it on her own.

This was minor stuff, but felt like a good positive sign to me, and makes we want to jump in a little more and do things that I know would please her, even if we have not discussed them....acts of service, I believe, right?? Home improvement has been on the back burner through all of this, but it really should have been on the top of my GAL activities.

Also some talk about Thanksgiving...this after her mentioning several weeks ago that she was planning on spending it in Florida with an old friend, and taking D with her. She left me hanging on that, but I never brought it up. The recent conversation was about the menu and plan for the day, so I guess she is staying in town??

Her birthday is also coming up and she told me not to spend any money on gifts because she would rather spend the money on the house and things we need(actually she said things she "wants" for the house).

With the calmness and normalcy creeps in a little more drama for some reason....nervous that it does not really mean anything and nothing has changed...scared of maintaining that closeness we have built over the months, because of my fear that it was based on some pretty superficial stuff....and with that calmness and normalcy....why so reluctant to say the words?

Still no commitment...still no trust in my actions...still not ready.

Still more work to do.

Some how...not much going on, but new things running through my head and trying not to let them make me crazy or let it change my behavior.

Tim,

Grandma always said, "Don't borrow trouble, it can find you easily enough." There was also something about a box of chocolates, but I'll leave that to Forrest...

You sound pretty good. You've made it past some kind of a milestone in that you are not dwelling on this day in and day out anymore. Take some satisfaction in making it to that place.

Let it unfold my friend. So many cliches come to mind, probably just due to a particularly trying day with the junior high kids at school, lol. But remember when your Momma used to say "A watched pot never boils?" Well...she was wrong of course because it does eventually boil...but that kind of blows the message, doesn't it?

Move forward with her at the pace she sets. I can tell you that my wife (and I emphasize for your benefit the word WIFE) has a similar desire to include me in as many parts of her life as possible. It's a good THING and a good SIGN that your wife is giving you through her actions.

Finally, if you get a chance and are so inclined, you might search me out on that "face" place. It would be good to see and talk to you outside of this board, and you'd get a chance to see the face that's been talking with you these many months.

Blessings,

Bill

It all sounds good nds. I'm glad you're hitting some goals and your W is including you in her 'plans'.

One piece of advice that I read somewhere - even if your W says she doesn't want a gift get one for her anyway. It doesn't have to be expensive or anything extravagant but pick something up - maybe something that has a special meaning for her, or even something she's remarked about wanting but hasn't gotten yet.

My W and I spent years not getting each other gifts for Christmas and birthdays but I think that was a mistake - and a mistake I won't repeat, even if she tells me not to get anything.

I know you are really wanting to hear the words of commitment, and I believe they will eventually come. But more importantly, her actions are showing that commitment. (In my opinion) I know it isn't exactly what you are looking for, but take comfort in the actions for now.

I'm glad you're doing well.

Quote:

Grandma always said, "Don't borrow trouble, it can find you easily enough." There was also something about a box of chocolates, but I'll leave that to Forrest...

Quote:

But remember when your Momma used to say "A watched pot never boils?" Well...she was wrong of course because it does eventually boil...but that kind of blows the message, doesn't it?

Those two were actually very popular with my mother...along with "You have a head like a sieve".

Thankfully all that I have learned has not leaked through the holes...the important things are still in here somewhere.

It has taken a while, but yes, I think I am in a good place right now. My lack of patience and her unwillingness to talk about the R and marriage still get the best of me sometimes, but I can't deny the fact that the last several weeks have brought some sort of calmness and normalcy to our lives.

The "what ifs", "how comes" and "whys" are in the back of my head rather than the tip of my tongue(fingers?).

I suppose somewhere inside I still hold those worries that nothing has really changed for her close. That is more because over the last several months, even with the drama, she has remained so close and consistent in her behavior.

At times that didn't allow me to see the subtle changes in the way she acts towards me...the little gestures and the words I was missing.

Also...I have a "face" from a while ago, but have not used it...little confused as to how to find all you guys...I will work on that.

Tim

Quote:

One piece of advice that I read somewhere - even if your W says she doesn't want a gift get one for her anyway. It doesn't have to be expensive or anything extravagant but pick something up - maybe something that has a special meaning for her, or even something she's remarked about wanting but hasn't gotten yet.

My W and I spent years not getting each other gifts for Christmas and birthdays but I think that was a mistake - and a mistake I won't repeat, even if she tells me not to get anything.

Steady
Those were my intentions from the start. We always were pretty extravagant with each other for Christmas and birthdays, and of course this year will be different...both because of the sitch and finances.

Over the last few months I have tested the waters with some little things I have picked up for her...nothing romantic and some just silly, and she has been pleased and receptive. I try to pay attention to her when she starts out a sentence with...I need, or I want..or I would like to have.

With her new interest in football and the Giants, I have picked out a couple silly things for her just to let her know I was thinking about her while I was out for the day, or shopping at the mall and they have gone over well.

Weekend update...journaling...little annoyed with myself..LOL.

Although the wife and I are getting a handle on the partying we had a crazy night out the other night, and when we got home we sat and chatted....here is the part where I am annoyed with myself, because...dammm...I cannot remember how the conversation started..LOL.

What I remember was her saying..."Yes, you mean when I used to be 'pissy' to you?"...and it struck me as funny, I laughed and went over to her and said...when you USED to be pissy?? What does that mean?

She said..."You know, when we USED to be pissy to each other. We're not "pissy' to each other anymore."...man, I wish I could remember what we were talking about...LOL.

So...the night out...that started with a Saturday evening birthday party for a nephew on her side. She never asked if I was, or wanted to go....just mentioned it and assumed I was going with her. In the past it would have just the opposite...she would have either not mentioned it at all, assuming I was not going, or mentioned it and assumed that I was not going.

Her SIL is not her favorite person and I think she wanted me along for a little moral support, as she gets pretty worked up when she has any sort of family function with that side of her people.

As a matter of fact, there was a continuing thorn in my wife's side with the other nephew. She bought him an Ipod almost a year ago, and turns out her brother and SIL have been too preoccupied to help him get it set up and usable on their computer.

While we were there I told her I would get it set up and show him how to download and use it, which I did. As I was doing it, there comments to the affect that it was somehow my wife's fault it was not working, as she had tried to show him how to use it on our computer.

My wife was good and waited until we got to the car to blow her top about the evening and Ipod incident.....I let her b**ch, complain and get it all out...agreed with her completely as a matter of fact...strange bunch and tough people to take and have a good time with.

In the car she gave me a hug and a kiss and told me I was her "hero" that night for getting the Ipod set up and showing her nephew how to use it.

Her mother was at the party and she and my wife had made plans to go out for a little while afterwards and have a drink. Her mom had plans to meets friends and my wife had talked to "best friend" and so the plan was for them all to meet up.

Once again...no invitation or mention...just an assumption that I was going along to be part of the evening...very unusual to be invited along to go out with "the girls"....good time had by all. I even danced a little with my wife(not a dancer, but I try) and she actually thanked me for getting up on the floor with her.

The evening before we went out shopping and looking at TV's as she is still planning on redecorating the LR and buying a new TV and furniture.

Sunday was a boring relaxing day at home, recouping from Saturday evening and watching football....she made us lunch and I made us dinner.

"The evening before we went out shopping and looking at TV's as she is still planning on redecorating the LR and buying a new TV and furniture."

Make sure and buy a nice flat screen.. a big one.. that way when you move to my house.. you can bring that with you.

OR

Why would she want to redecorate.. and include you.. if you are leaving? God.. I am so confused.

"She never asked if I was, or wanted to go....just mentioned it and assumed I was going with her. In the past it would have just the opposite...she would have either not mentioned it at all, assuming I was not going, or mentioned it and assumed that I was not going."

Hmmmm... Really?

"here is the part where I am annoyed with myself, because...dammm...I cannot remember how the conversation started..LOL."

Dosen't matter.. you remember the important parts.

Lucky Cricket.

"The evening before we went out shopping and looking at TV's as she is still planning on redecorating the LR and buying a new TV and furniture."

Make sure and buy a nice flat screen.. a big one.. that way when you move to my house.. you can bring that with you.

I had to bite my tongue to stop from asking her if I could take the old one when I left, or if she was going to put it in the bedroom....afraid she was going to say "sure, when you going?".

Why would she want to redecorate.. and include you.. if you are leaving? God.. I am so confused.

Yeah...wise guy...been thinking the same thing...second time in a week or so that the living room / TV discussion has come up....there are still a few "I's" in the mix when she talks about what she wants...not "we" should or "we" could...but I tell you, I thought it was pretty cool. Months ago these subjects were avoided completely because honestly I don't think she saw me there enjoying it with her.

There were a few other things over the last couple of weeks that are "different" about her, but I am just trying to take it all in and stay my course....no cockiness allowed.

One I know you would appreciate..."you know what" without the alcohol....forgot what that was like...LOL.

T

Hey Mr. Lost....

search for me.

then...... I'll leave you a trail of breadcrumbs.

Hugs

Also...I have a "face" from a while ago, but have not used it...little confused as to how to find all you guys...I will work on that.

get it ?

Originally Posted By: smartcookie

Also...I have a "face" from a while ago, but have not used it...little confused as to how to find all you guys...I will work on that.

get it ?

Got it....done.

Upcoming tests???

The other day it was looking at new TV's for the planned LR redecorating....wife will buy the first one she sees...I would like to do a little research and shopping around to get a nice one, and a good deal. I will try to be more cooperative than I have been in the past and not let my "paralysis from analysis" get the best of me.

Last night it was buying paint for the LR with the plan to get started this week.

Wife....paint-paint-paint..no reason we can't get in done quickly.

Me...patch-sand-mask-prep-prep-prep...I hate painting, but if I am going to do it, it's going to be perfect.

Work is slow, money is tight and the holidays are just around the corner...IMO, not the best time to start this kind of work, but if it will make her happy than I will put a lot of effort into making sure that the old me does not pop in for a visit.

She pretty much told me she doesn't believe I can get through it all without the drama...not her exact words, but I knew exactly what she meant.

Hey, I have been proving her wrong for 7 months now...how hard could this be??

Wife and I started on the living room redo last night when we got home from work.....just some initial prep work.

This brings up some things again that still don't make much sense to me in all this...so just here to vent a little.

Through the talk of new TV, new furniture, picking up paint and getting started on this, I am having a bit of an issue with all of this....not necessarily looking for input, but.....

A few times last night I really had to stop myself from making comments that could have opened up an R discussion...find my patience this week is not what it has been with her and the fact that she is planning all this work around the house, but refuses to give me a hint as to what the future holds for us.

I know...the hints come in actions not words and everyone, especially the AWA ladies have given me enough insight over the months on here to have some idea of what she may be thinking and going through...I get that...waiting, watching..testing and trying to keep me on my toes.

Maybe that's what this is all about right now...more subconscious tests for me to pass?

But really, after 7 months is it too much to ask, as we delve into a project like this, spending thousands of dollars and working together on it, for her to open the door just a crack?

So, I am left with assuming that this is a good sign. She wants to work on the "nest" and has for the most part included me....or is she cold, cruel and not the least bit concerned with what I am feeling or the fact she has allowed us to be so close all these months? She gets the house redecorated and I am here to help and contribute.

Which makes more sense? You know...sorry, but I could still go either way by the total lack of verbal communication about the situation.

To me, she is making some sweeping assumptions in her mind. The assumption that I am still completely on board with a separation and have accepted it, even though we are getting along and acting like a happily married couple and planning on redecorating the house...holidays together, guests at the house...we are the happy couple.

Or...the assumption that she does not have to say anything and I should know by her actions that she is "working on us".

I'm not sure if this makes sense to anyone...and really, I am not trying to create drama in my head....but here is how I am looking at this today...good or bad.

I was supposed to have spent the last several months detaching from her, GAL and "moving on"....now in my sitch, that didn't happen. We have basically gone through the last several months getting closer and having a great time....but she still, when she feels it is needed, gives me a reminder that nothing has changed...still wants to separate.

So, in my mind, how close should I have let myself become...do I really want to forget that this could all come to a screeching halt tomorrow....per her reminders?

...and what if...as I am detaching and keeping in my mind that this just is too good to be true(her reminders), she is not being completely honest with me and is allowing herself to be drawn back in and is truly at a point where she thinks it will all work out?

What if I give up before she gives in? Where does that leave her? That right there tells me she is just assuming that I am going to be there, ready, willing and waiting, no matter how long it takes, if at all....or to her, it just doesn't matter at this point...she is still set on a separation and my thoughts and feelings are still not part of the equation.

Maybe it's time to take a step forward.

Do you ever tell her that you love her? Or has that been stricken from your vocabulary due to DB'ing?

Maybe it's time to test the waters.

What's the worst that will happen? She could tell you once again that she still intends to separate.

It would hurt for sure, but really, been there done that.

You know that she was close to saying something significant a couple weeks ago. I'm sure you remember the conversation well. The one where she stopped herself and you reassured her that she didn't need to say anything she wasn't quite ready to say?

From the outside looking in, it is incredibly easy to tell you to continue to go with the flow and WAIT for the words to come naturally. But it's clear that you're finding it harder and harder to live in the uncertainty.

All I can think of is to tell you that you could try dipping your toes in the water and see what the response is.

I'm not sure that you can handle doing it without launching into a full blown relationship talk however. And in your current state, if you get a negative response, you may well let it all rip and come across to her as the old NDS. That is the danger I think.

I'll just leave you with these thoughts.

You have told us, many times, that your wife is one of the kindest and sweetest women that you know. You have told us that she is not capable of inflicting intentional harm on others, whether out of spite or just for general purpose.

So what makes you think your wife would be so cold as to involve you in these couple activities only to push you out the door at some point in the near future?

I know, I know. Your line is that she THINKS you are ok with the upcoming separation plan.

Do you really believe that?

Look for the inconsistencies in your thinking. Many of your worries are fear based. They exist because of the limbo-land that you see yourself to be living in.

So maybe it's time to tell her that you love her. With all your heart. Hell, go as far as seems appropriate given the mood and medium.

Not sure I've helped, but those are my thoughts.

Blessings,

Bill

Quote:

What if I give up JUSTbefore she gives in?

Wouldn't that suck? That would sure make ME pause.

Quote:

That right there tells me she is just assuming that I am going to be there, ready, willing and waiting, no matter how long it takes, if at all.

Your loving actions towards her over the past 7 months are what have told her that you will be waiting for her.

And that's not a bad thing.

Quote:

...or to her, it just doesn't matter at this point...she is still set on a separation and my thoughts and feelings are still not part of the equation.

This would not be the woman you have described to us.

And be careful Tim, you're working yourself up into a good case of being pissed off at your wife.

Bill

Quote:

Do you ever tell her that you love her? Or has that been stricken from your vocabulary due to DB'ing?

A couple of times over the months...slips of the tongue. Once I got a "I know you do", and the other was after we had been drinking and that was "You really do love me, don't you?"

It is on the tip of my tongue every time I am near her....more fear.

Quote:

Maybe it's time to test the waters.

What's the worst that will happen? She could tell you once again that she still intends to separate.

It would hurt for sure, but really, been there done that.

Probably not an option the way I have been feeling. The holidays, the work we are doing around the house now...to hear that she is not feeling any different right now would not make me want to try even harder. As easy as she has made this for me, it's not like I haven't tried...some days I just get so tired of walking that line.

If I am going to get hurt, it's going to be one more big hurt, not a bunch more little ones over the coming months...maybe I will know when the time is right to bring it up again, or maybe she will on her own, for good or bad.

Quote:

I'm not sure that you can handle doing it without launching into a full blown relationship talk however. And in your current state, if you get a negative response, you may well let it all rip and come across to her as the old NDS. That is the danger I think.

Yes...he has been close lately...guess that is where the venting is coming from. Going to try to find an outlet over the next few days, but even that will be harder now....committed to the work on the house now...can't just blow her off, and it will be trying my patience doing it and wondering in the back of my head about where we are going with it all.

Quote:

You have told us, many times, that your wife is one of the kindest and sweetest women that you know. You have told us that she is not capable of inflicting intentional harm on others, whether out of spite or just for general purpose.

So what makes you think your wife would be so cold as to involve you in these couple activities only to push you out the door at some point in the near future?

This is also the woman who told me when asked, for the year prior to the bomb if every thing was OK, told me yes.

Quote:

I know, I know. Your line is that she THINKS you are ok with the upcoming separation plan.

That bugs me...was it wrong to continually tell her when the subject came up.."I know..I am going to be fine..when we get things in order, I am out of your hair, don't worry." That always seemed to be exactly what she wanted to hear...not that I wanted to fight for the marriage, but that I was OK with it and I would be OK without her. Have I just convinced her of that?

Quote:

Not sure I've helped, but those are my thoughts.

You always help...this time though, I just don't think I can bring myself to following your advice and putting myself on the line.

Tim

Quote:

Your loving actions towards her over the past 7 months are what have told her that you will be waiting for her.

And that's not a bad thing.

I am still waiting...but does she want me to. That may be what I am asking in all of this.

Quote:

And be careful Tim, you're working yourself up into a good case of being pissed off at your wife.

I know...in some ways I guess I already am...good read on that one.

Well, I have to go home and work on the living room.

Tim

Originally Posted By: ndsmhelp

Quote:

And be careful Tim, you're working yourself up into a good case of being pissed off at your wife.

I know...in some ways I guess I already am...good read on that one.

Well, I have to go home and work on the living room.

Tim

Sooo...today I am trying to work on not being pissed off at my wife...Thanks, Bill.

You suggesting that maybe I test the waters a little and confront her with what I am feeling made me realize that maybe I am not really ready to hear the wrong answer right now.

Had a similar discussion with Smartcookie a few days ago, and I know at some point I need to take that chance, put myself out there and find out where we stand.

When the time and the mood is right, I will take the opportunity to make sure she is aware of my feelings and that I love her and want the marriage to work.

If that pushes her away again, then so be it. She can know that I will be OK with out her and that I will survive, but she also needs to know that I would much rather fight for us than give up. For the past 7 months I believe I have shown that through my actions, but when the chance arises, I am going to make sure she hears the words.

Right now, though, with the holidays and us working together on the house, I feel like I need to let her have her thoughts to herself and continue on this different path we started.

She continues to remain close to me and home. The evenings out with the girls and time away from home for her is rare, and we continue to ease back on our own excess....realizing together that we had been over spending, over indulging (maybe over compensating?) and I see her now wanting to get back on track. I want us to be able to have fun, enjoy ourselves, talk and communicate...knowing that it was not because we were partying or going out, or taking off for a crazy weekend.

Some of the roller coaster I am experiencing lately has something to do with that, and I think back to advice from you, FG and others early on in my sitch.

Although I know that the fun we have had over the months will not come to a complete screeching halt....I have to realize that with some normalcy(if that what it is), will come good and bad days. We can't party every day or go away every weekend and we won't end up in the bedroom ML and being crazy all the time. Those times are great, but it is time to see how this relationship functions in the real world.

But...I still have to show her that no matter what we do, or how mundane the times may be, I will be here for her and continue to treat her with respect and cherish the time we have together.

I see how hard it is to hide the frustration and impatience I have been feeling. Last weekend when we were out she told me I seemed annoyed with her. Yesterday, I found myself letting her text messages go unanswered, when in the past it did my heart good to know she was contacting me just to chat or say hello. Last night when we got home and got ready to work on the living room, I pulled her to me and gave her a hug....and she asked me what was wrong.

Have to remember that she feeds off me, just as much I do her and like FG has told me a hundred times...

"If you feel it, they can see it"...

If you feel it, we can sense it. I can sense it over the computer with H, when we chat. Over the phone when he's across the country, & when I'm in the same room.

Sometimes......... I wish I couldn't.

Originally Posted By: smartcookie

If you feel it, we can sense it. I can sense it over the computer with H, when we chat. Over the phone when he's across the country, & when I'm in the same room.

Sometimes......... I wish I couldn't.

...and it works both ways. When she is feeling distant, or we have these nice close, great times and then pulls back, it makes it difficult for me to maintain my positive feelings towards her.

This last couple of weeks as we have calmed down from what appeared to be some sort of seven month "honeymoon period"(was that possible even though she insisted nothing had changed?), I find myself wondering if it is just her way of trying to introduce normalcy herself, or her realizing that she had been giving me the wrong idea and wants to pull back so I don't get too comfortable.

I understand her lack of trust and the fact that it may or may not ever come back, and that no matter how well things feel she may not let herself fall in love with me again.

But, lately, because so much time has passed, and things have been so good without any hint of a verbal commitment, I find myself not trusting her actions.....does that make sense?

I find myself still thinking that she is convinced I am OK with an eventual separation and that allows her to act as if it is OK to make plans for the house, act like all is well and go about our lives as if we are a happy couple...but in her head think.."He KNOWS what I want, I TOLD him nothing has changed, so it's his problem if he has the wrong idea".

Guess it comes down to me either staying the course, or speaking up and putting her on the spot.....aarrggggg....LOL

Hey, it has been almost 2 months now since the last reminder....that's a record so far.

Apparently, what you're doing is working (no reminder in 2 months). Stay the course !

Originally Posted By: smartcookie

Apparently, what you're doing is working (no reminder in 2 months). Stay the course !

LOL...stay the course...I will..I am....somehow I feel like I should have the...courage??...to tell her exactly how I feel, as you and Bill have suggested, but the last few days with her have been good.

Even though I ponder and worry, and say I may not believe what her actions are telling me, I do realize how important it is to be consistent and not let that resentment show just because I am not hearing what I want to hear.

Hey Cookie, I was thinking about you the last couple of days and "the power" you were talking about having in your relationship, and how the goal is a power equal relationship.

Watching her closely the last few days...she went out with the girls the other night...Sunday we spent the day home together relaxing and yesterday we worked on the living room.

I can see her now, enjoying what I think you meant as "power"...without a concern of a reaction from me....and like you said, it may or may not be conscious on her part, but nonetheless I think she may be enjoying it.

In some respects, I am enjoying it myself...allowing her to take charge of certain things and go with her flow more and more, takes away some of that perceived pressure that I had to control each and every situation in our marriage.

Something as simple as getting together to paint and redecorate the living room, in the past, would have been nothing more than a battle of wills. One that I would have won.

To watch her the last few days, deciding on colors, talking about her choices of furniture and accessories, I really felt the joy she was getting out of it.

In the past, even though I would have "given in" eventually, there would have been no joy for her in the end. I would have found fault in the whole process....selection, money, time...it would have been done, but I would have made sure it was turmoil....consciously or not, that is how it would have turned out.

Then, to start the work and allow her to lead the way, work together all this time without a snip, remark, correction or harsh word between the 2 of us.....whole new experience for me, and if she is not surprised by, and seeing it, than I real am on the wrong track.

Other things come to mind....the sex, finances...I have been pretty good these past months, but I also see how when I was not in control it still bothered me some.....and can see how I should not look at it as giving up control, but striving towards that power equal balance that you talked about.

Maybe a long way to go?...maybe we are pretty close?

I don't know, but she continues to give me hope that she is actually paying attention to the changes.

Now....if she could just bring herself to TELL me what is going on in that pretty little head of hers...LOL

Started a new thread before I get locked out of this one.
Wish I could read her mind (8)>>>>