Hi everyone, I just want to say what a great board this is. I found it last night and went and bought Michelle's "The Divorce Remedy" today. I can't wait to read it.
To give you some history, my wife and I seperated in November 07. We had a big fight about a month prior to that and things changed afterwards. I left feeling that a few weeks of being apart then all things would get better. Well that was 4 months ago and we are still seperated. We have two great boys, 6 and 10.
I stayed with my family up until two weeks ago when I finally rented a place that is only 3 miles from my wife and kids.
Leading up to the seperation day, we discussed how we would do our own seperation agreement and we would put the house on the market as neither of us would be able to afford it by ourselves. Well that has all changed, I finally went to a lawyer to start the process of a seperation agreement as I can't get my wife to agree to sit down and do it, nor will she agree to put the house on the market. She doesn't know if she will keep it or sell it. Of course this is leaving me on the fence of what she wants to do. I want nothing more than to save our marriage, I see that I have been doing some things that I shouldn't which is constantly bringing it up to her and begging her which I can see that she has probably been driven away by these actions.
The reason for going to the lawyers is that she tells me that she does not want to work things out but she is not willing to let me see my kids equal time nor will she decide what she is going to do about the house. I had a hard enough time renting the place I'm in now because the house is on my debt to income which will prevent me from buying in the future if the house is not out of my name.
I want nothing more to save our marriage, I have started counseling for myself, reading lots of material and really have tried to change alot of the wrong that I have. She feels she is happier and that the kids are fine with everything. The bad thing is she won't even talk to the kids about this, I do and I know the kids are not fine, in fact they are building resentment toward her over this whole ordeal. Can someone help me out, do I keep trying? Our boys are involved in baseball so we go to practice, my wife and I walk around for exercise and have conversations, so it's not like we don't talk or anything like that, in fact the weekend that I moved closer to them, we as a family went out to eat 3 different times, I thought things were getting better but she had to tell me last week that "it was an ackward situation for her and she didn't want to mislead me.
I am beating my head against the wall on all of this. Do I start acting like I don't care? Do I persue with the seperation papers? Neither of us are involved in other relationships, she was my high school sweetheart, we have been married 14 years and together 22 years. Please give some advice from those who are going through this, I don't want to keep doing what I am doing because it obviously is not working.
Hi ping1,
Welcome to our community. The more you tell us about your situation, the more we might be able to help you. At least you can come here to vent your frustrations.
How old are you and your W? Do you see any other changes in her such as the way she is dressing or her hair & make-up? Is her personality different than usual?
Why are you so sure there is not another man in her life?
These are just a few things to start with and then we can go farther.
Keep posting on a regular basis b/c people here care and want to help.
Sandi
Hi!
Two things that stick out at me. I am a GAL (Guardian Ad Litem) and I am concerned over the fact she won't allow equal access to the kids (what is the reason) and the fact that you two are discussing anything with the kids.
On the situation- I wish I could offer you advice, but I SUCK right now in my own mess.. so bad I really don't "need" to be giving advice! : - )
Hi Sandi, I am 37 and W is 35. I have not seen any difference in her clothes, makeup or hair. As far as another man goes, I just don't see it although you would think that the way she has gone forward with this whole ordeal anything could be possible but I just don't think that is the case. If there is another man, I'm not sure when she would be seeing him, her only free time is every other weekend and that time she is at the house and her mother comes over most of the time.
My W said she lost herself in our relationship, she doesn't know who she is anymore. I will admit that all I ever focused on was the negative, not the positive and that is a big part of where we are at with the seperation today. She stated that if what we had in our marriage is what marriage is about then she wanted no part of it. She felt that when she came home and if I was in a bad mood then she and the kids would have to be walking on egg shells and she was tired of living that way. We never spent much time together just she and I. Once our kids came along, I spent so much time focusing on them that I forgot to focus on our marriage. We did go alot with the kids, but never just she and I. She has said that she thought she would miss me but she doesn't. Just two weeks ago when I told her I got a place to stay she stated "I won't happy married and I'm not happy now." I know from reading on this site that I have made many mistakes in my pursuit to save our marriage, I would send emails asking her back, call her trying to beg and plead and do the same when we are together. I am learning that was not helping my situation any, it may have been hurting me more than helping.
About 6 weeks ago I found lawyer papers in her car for seperation, she has yet to send them in or at least I have not received anything on my end. I was staying with my parents for over 3 months and felt like I had no life at all so I got my own place. My wife didn't understand why I needed my own place, she felt I should be able to have a life staying with parents. The weekend I moved in, my W came over and helped my put furniture together and we went to dinner with the kids. I told her I was lonely and she said she was also. We had a great time, even went to dinner 2 out of the next 3 nights due to kids baseball practices.
In one of my last pleas to save our marriage, she stated that she knew if she took me back and let me move in then things would go right back to where they once were in a years time.
She thinks that this is a game for me and if she allows me to come home then I win the game, I would stop going to counseling and I am only doing all of the things to get better just to come home. She is on a power trip of being in control, I was a controlling husband, I will admit, she is now in control. W states that I am a manipulator and will do whatever I have to in order to get my way. I really want to save our marriage and our family, I know that I made alot of mistakes in our marriage and I would do whatever it takes to save it but she doesn't want to see it and I am lost on what I do next.
If you have been that controlling in the past, you may just have to let her control things for now. She will only believe that the changes you are making are not manipulative if you keep them up. That is just going to take time. Of course she is feeling like it will go back to the way it was. I think that is natural for anyone. You just have to continue to show her that the changes you are making are for YOU, not just for her. If you are truly changing for YOU, then you are more apt to continue those changes.
She may have just reached the "breaking point". By that I mean that she wants to be free to be her own boss to live her life as she wants to without somebody else in control of her.
Just keep posting and telling us all that you can from day to day. Read the DR book and follow it all the way. Work on yourself while you give her space and more freedome. Back away from her and focus on you and what you need to do to change for the better. Become the man she fell in love with. Go to the gym and work out. It helps get rid of a lot of frustration, plus it is good for your health and builds a sexy looking body. Take long walks to think clearly about your future and what goals you need to set. Get a life! Get out of the house and become a little more mysterious about yourself. Don't lie or mess around with other women.....just go out, drive around, go to the mall, buy new and different style clothes. Maybe you need a new male make-over. New hair syle, grow a beard...or shave it off...whatever. Something new. Get a professional to help you decide the best look for you. Get on a healthy diet. Get plenty of sleep. You don't want to look bad....you want to look good enough for her to want to gobble you up (lol). Wear good smelling men's cologne (no cheap stuff)......you would be shocked to know how that works on us women! Wear it everytime you start to go out and be sure you are wearing it when you know she will see you and how good you look and how wonderful you smell. If she asks what you are up to or where you are going.....don't lie, just tell her you want to get out a while. Do you like to bowl or some sports or hobby? In other words, stay busy! Have a life that does not include her. But, if she acts as though she would like to go along with you.....then you have the option of taking her or not. That is up to you.
I strongly suggest that you do not flirt with other women. I believe when men go to bars, they are asking for trouble. It looks as though you are going there to find sex with another woman. That will not help your marriage at all. Don't try to make her jealous b/c it will backfire. But you can do very innocent things as I have suggested and she can't get mad about that or accuse you of wrong doing. If you get dolled up to go out and get an ice cream cone......so what? Makes her wonder, doesn't it...lol. You can always invite her along,too. These things may sound silly to you (being a man and all that), but it works! You want to get her attention by changing not only your ways, but in how you look. Maybe you don't see anything wrong with how you look.....maybe you look like Brad Pitt.....If so, that's great, but most people could use a little sprucing up in reality, so it would get her visual attention and then she would start noticing the other changes.
When people have been married a long time, you go through a lot of changes and stages. You have to work hard at getting through these changes as they come. We all probably develop some bad habits over the years and get set in our ways and it is really hard to overcome that. Why not set some goals to work on for yourself. For instance, your number one goal should be to not be manipulative or controlling. You have to break it down into small goals that you can work on every day.
I hope you will have a chance to be a part of the kids' life. That is important and it will be a "lifeline" to your W. It will give you more opportunities for her to see you and the changes you have made. Plus, you need to pour your affection and attention on those kids. They are going to need it now more than ever before.
Even when a couple have S, it is not too late! She will see you and your changes. She will hear about it too. I hope that the S will be short termed. I know how it is to be in a MR that sucks. Just to run away to have freedome seems like a wonderful fantasy. Maybe it will do her good and you will have that time to make things better between the two of you. I think from what you said that you will have to prove to her that your changes are for life.....not just a game to win her back.
It's late and I need to go to bed. I want to talk to you more. If I can do anything to help, I want to be here for you. Please don't give up, okay?
Sandi
Thanks Edge and Sandi. I do not plan on giving up anytime soon. I am just going to change the approach that I have been doing that hasn't worked thus far. Yes I believe that my W has freedom that she has never felt before and is enjoying it to a certain extent.
I have recently started working out again, I need to drop a few pounds and feel better about myself. I did lose about 20 pounds when we first seperated but I have put about 10 back on. This will also help to relieve some unwanted stress.
I have no plans on hitting the bar scene, that is not my style and I know it will only be asking for trouble for myself if I have any hope of saving R.
Do you ever feel like you are being put on a test to see if you pass or fail it? I can't help but to feel this way at times.
Some days are better than others, some days my W is much nicer and easier going than others, some days you feel like there really is a chance that the M can be saved and other days you just believe its all a put on.
I can't help but to feel used at times, we agreed to sell our house when we first seperated, that has been 4 months ago and W won't commit to selling it or keeping it. I am paying the mortgage which is a substantial amount every month. This is where the used part comes in, I feel like I am only a paycheck. At times I feel that she is trying to hold on to the house because she has plans on saving our R and other times I feel that she is just using me to pay the mortgage. It drives me crazy not knowing.
I don't know what the future holds. I can not get her to MC as she doesn't feel that will teach her anything that she doesn't already know, we did go to one about 2 months after the seperation and she says she didn't get anything from it. She has had some tough walls built up around her, I felt that some of those walls were starting to drop but then I feel they may be rebuilding.
I really feel one of my biggest battles to win her back right now is that she made a comment to me about a month ago during one of my pleads to her that she didn't think her mother could ever forgive me. Her mother and I were really close but once my wife told her about our fight we had I guess she feels her daughter is better off without me. My wife is one that aims to please others, especially her mother and "me at one time," which leads me to believe I am fighting a no win battle as if she feels that her mother will not approve of our R then I am doomed.
Any input would be great.
ping,
Much of your situation is a direct reflection of mine: high school sweethearts , 2 kids, controlling/manipulative, likely no OM, W wants freedom, W doesn't want MC, you're doing IC, W says she lost herself in the R and doesn't know who she is anymore, W felt like she was walking on eggshells when you were angry, you focused on the kids and not your M, etc. Quite honestly, the similarities are uncanny.
As you can see in my signature below, I'm now D'd from my XW. We were separated for a litle over a year before the D was final, and we've been D'd for 4 months now. That being said, things are a hell of a lot better now than they were 17 months (heck, even 4 months ago). I can say with certainty that the reason for this is the hard work I've done to make much needed changes in myself. You see, I became the biggest ahole in the world in my M. I was rude, a jerk, manipulative, guilt-tripping, verbally abusive and belittling, controlling, etc. I also had a very bad anger problem. I never made our M a partnership, and always believed that I was always right about everything. Also, I was very insecure as a man, which I believe added to the forementioned actions on my behalf.
What helped me to fix these things about me was first analyzing myself (esp through my W's lenses). I whole-heartedly stripped myself bear to see who I really was and how I was behaving and why. Things that helped me to do this was IC, several self-help and/or M saving books (DB/DR, The 5 Love Languages, Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends, His Needs/Her Needs), and a huge dose of humility and acceptance. Ultimately, you and I can only control ourselves, ping, and that at the very best means that we can control our actions, choices, behaviors, etc. Yes, it is hard work because we pretty much have to re-wire ourselves, but I have found that the more you focus on doing this and the more effort you put into it, the easier it becomes (to the point of it really becoming who you are -- not just who you want to be or should be).
You said you have purchased DR (which is GREAT!) -- I hope you're reading it as I type this, and continue to do so with every minute of spare time until it is finished. I also recommend reading it at least 2 more times afterwards, as it helps to make it really sink in and become an internal reference that is always accessible.
There is still hope for your M, ping, I promise you. For me, my changes are for life, and I will continue being the rock for my XW in times of need, and will continue being the man that she deserved to have in the first place. Many people draw a line in the sand in terms of when they will give up and/or move on. My line is when someone else comes along that makes me feel alive, loved, appreciated, respected, etc. Until then, I will leave the door to reconciliation with my XW open. I always believed that we would have to get D'd before any chance or reconciliation was possible, and things seem to be much better between us since the D was final. We went from hardly talking at all (only about the kids when necessary), to laughing and joking -- even talking on the phone and sitting in the same room together BSing. I believe she is final beginning to see my changes are genuine and here to stay. I don't know if it will ever change anything between us, but I'll be happy even if it doesn't. It is important to make these changes for YOU, and if your W ever decides she wants to come back to you, then that will be the icing on the cake for you. Otherwise, you'll be happy as a new and improved man, and will be an excellent catch for someone else down the road. I believe DR says it takes an average of about 3 months of consistent change for a WAS to actually consider that the change is for real and possibly permanent. Of course, there is no real way to know if this is the same timeline for your W, but I always believed it was worth consideration.
I tell you these things about my own failed M in hopes that you will find some knowledge that is applicable to your own sitch. Our sitches are very similar, and I believe there is still hope for both of us.
If there is anything I can do to help you out regarding your sitch and/or DBing, please don't hestitate to ask. As for these questions you asked:
Do I start acting like I don't care?
Not necessarily. You start acting like you will be okay no matter what happens. Your W knows you care and that you don't want this, but what you have to do is show her that you are strong even in the face of this devastating change you're up against. Show her a man that is strong, happy, confident, calm, cool, understanding, etc. Show her a man that understands what he has done wrong, and who is working hard to change those old ways (and notice I said SHOW, not TELL. The worst thing you can do to ruin your credability here is to TELL her you're making changes. Your ACTIONS will tell her a much better/realistic story than your WORDS will. Trust me). Answer me this: is an attractive man someone who begs, cries, pleads, sulks, etc, or someone who is happy, humorous, confident, strong, has his own life and is staying active, etc? Which would you rather spend time with if you were a woman?
So, don't act like you don't care, but act like you are strong enough to deal with the reality of where things are as of now. Does this make sense?
Do I persue with the seperation papers?
I would strongly suggest you don't, but really it is up to you. Do you think it is necessary, and that it will bring you closer to your goals? Have you established what your goals are yet? There is a section in DR that is excellent for helping you with these.
I got impatient with my XW during our S and ended up being the one who filed for D (this was several months before I found DR and this site, unfortunately). I wish I never would've done that. Filing for D is much different than filing for legal separation, but I thought it was worth mentioning to you as food for thought.
Honestly, the first thing you need to do is forgive yourself for your failing M -- the past is the past, and you did the best you could with the tools you had at the time. End of story. You're learning now what tools work best in a M, and that is what counts and what you should be focusing on. That and studying DR like your M depended on it! Time and patience are your best friend right now, so as difficult as they are to embrace, please do so. Saving your M isn't a sprint -- it's a stinkin' marathon!
As for your MIL, that is something that is out of your control, so please don't focus on it (it takes energy away for the things you CAN control). If your W truly decides she likes your hard-earned changes and wants to try again, than her MIL won't be able to change her mind. Just focus on making your changes and practicing DR strategies and suggestions. Do you ever see your MIL? If so, I suggest DBing her too. Couldn't hurt.
One more piece of advice for now -- don't say anything about DR to your W or anyone else that could potentially relay this info to your W. It is your Ace in the Hole -- don't give it up. Also, don't say anything negative about your M, W, sitch, etc (basically, anything you don't want your W to hear) to anyone that might relay it to your W. This could prove to be very damaging and counter-productive to your efforts.
Best of luck -- I'll try to check in later. I'm not really on the boards near as much as I used to be.
GD
Thanks GD for your comments. I am doing all I can to better myself, it just feels like its falling on death ears and eyes. I'm glad to see someone who is in my shoes with the sitch I am going through. How soon did you start DR after your seperation? Do you think that your W has noticed any difference in you?
My wife states that she feels that she has become independent, she believes since in her words that I was not there in the marriage that she became independant and she is fine on her own. I didn't realize what a jerk I was. I do know that I can change and will change but she will not be able to see those changes being apart which I believe is the hardest thing for me to accept. I felt everything was going fine in our marriage, I know we had our ups and downs but that is life. I just feel that she can't forgive me for the wrong I have done and is holding a grudge inside and will not let it go. We stand so much to lose if we go forward with this. If I only knew 5 months ago what I know now I would probably not be in this situation but I know I can't look at the past and dwell on it.
I have already started the seperation paper process in which to get the house on the market and trying to get my kids more often, she refuses to let them stay with me except every other weekend. These are the only two reasons I needed to start the process. I guess in some way I am hoping that putting the house on the market and having less time with the kids then maybe she will come around on her actions. This is probably wishful thinking.
She can't remember any of the good times we had together, in her eyes everything was bad. This is just not the case.
I went over to her house today to see the boys for Easter, we started walking the house to value some of the things we have, I made the mistake of trying to talk to her again about our M. I just don't understand how anyone can throw this many years away. We have two great boys that need there parents together. I just don't see that she will be coming around and accepting that our M can be saved. It's like the longer the S goes the more and more she builds up wrong doings that were in our M.
I am going to try my best to stop talking about our M with her. I know it will be hard.
By chance, during your seperation, do you think you could have done anything different that may have made more of an impact?
runswithscissors, the reason she says I can't have the kids is because she thinks I am to easy on them and that I can't take care of them myself. I feel the reason she won't let me have them is because then her life may change some and she wouldn't want that. She will tell you that I am the best father she could ever ask for but will not let them spend but every other weekend with me.
As far as talking to the kids about the sitch, we don't talk about it much to them at all, two weekends ago the kids brought it up to me that there mother doesn't want them at the house as she is always getting mad and crying. Now I know she loves them very much and this is not the case as I tried to tell the boys but they have this in there heads. They also stated the only reason you are not home with us is because momma doesn't want you there. The kids want to spend more time with me and they were upset when W told them they could only stay every other weekend.
Okay, I understand the reasoning behind the separation papers so you can legally get more time with the kids. Honestly, the fact that she feels justified in keeping the kids from you this much is quite disconcerning. She is a typical WAS -- completely in selfish mode. You will find out all about the WAS habits and behaviors in DR (btw, how far into it are you?). If she will not budge on the sharing of the kids, then I agree that you should move along the separation papers. However, don't do it in hopes that she will "wake up" or anything of that nature. That's pretty much why I filed for D, and honestly it had quite the opposite affect.
I am doing all I can to better myself, it just feels like its falling on death ears and eyes.
The focus is not to be on your W in regard to your changes. Don't do it for her -- do it for YOU. If you truly believe you need to make these changes, then you won't primarily concern yourself on whether or not she acknowledges them. And, btw, if she's noticing them, you won't know it for quite some time. She will keep these observations to herself. In addition, she probably won't believe they're genuine until you keep them up consistently for a very long period of time (at least several months, to be quite honest). Remember, prepare yourself for a marathon (4 months is a good start, but it is very, very likely you have much further to go).
Now, regarding your changes. What are the things about yourself that you believe you need to change? What did you do to contribute to the breakdown of the M? Most definitely, your W played a roll in this breakdown too, but since she won't acknowledge that right now (nor can you control that) we have to focus on your part. This is an extremely important step. The more honest you can be about this, the better you can do to work on the changes and the better other DBers can help you.
How soon did you start DR after your seperation?
Unfortunately, 6 1/2 months (and 4 months after I filed for D).
Do you think that your W has noticed any difference in you?
Without a doubt!
I know this because a) she has briefly commented on it on a couple of occasions (1 recently), b) she is much more friendly with me and comfortable around me, and c) I haven't been any of the things I mentioned in my first post since I started DBing last May. I've been nearly 100% consistent with my changes since then. And, in all honesty, I think it took seeing me continue on with my changes AFTER the D for her to actually believe they are genuine and permanent. She now has a boyfriend and is living with him, but it is my understanding that she doesn't care for him much anymore (heard it through the grapevine). However, financially she is kind of stuck with needing him since she can't support herself and the kids (we have 50/50 custody) on her own. He is 12 yrs older than her, but really he isn't a very responsible guy (has 2 previously failed M's and doesn't do jack at home). She met him through work. I myself started dating right at the time of our D, and she knows I'm casually dating a few different girls. I have no plans of getting into a serious R anytime in the near future, and I believe she regrets getting into hers (they've been together for about a year now). Sorry, think I got off track there...
I didn't realize what a jerk I was.
Can you explain?
If I only knew 5 months ago what I know now I would probably not be in this situation.
It is almost certain that you wouldn't have realized this until your W dropped the bomb. It almost always takes a major crisis to fully occur before we are able to understand the magnitude of our previous choices, actions, and behaviors.
She can't remember any of the good times we had together, in her eyes everything was bad.
This is exactly what DR will explain to you -- typical WAS behavior. It justifies their decision to walk away. What you need to do is show via your actions and behaviors why she should want to stay with you.
I am hoping that putting the house on the market and having less time with the kids then maybe she will come around on her actions. This is probably wishful thinking.
Yes. Don't do it for that reason. Do it to protect yourself -- and make sure she understands that
IF she becomes upset about it.
I am going to try my best to stop talking about our M with her. I know it will be hard.
Yes it will be hard, but most likely it is the best choice to make at this time. You are at the Last Resort Technique (read up on it in DR). Stopping the chase and becoming attractive to her via your changes is what you need to do.
By chance, during your seperation, do you think you could have done anything different that may have made more of an impact?
Yeah, before I found DR I could've not been an ahole, not filed for D, and not attempted to force an ultimatum on her. I actually tried to make her choose to either work things out or get a D a mere 7 weeks into our separation. Guess which one she chose? Once again, my attempt to control her and/or the situation reinforced her belief that continuing a M with me was the wrong thing to do.
Hope that helps, ping. Please let us know about the things you did to help facilitate the breakdown of the M, and the behaviors you know you need to change.
Happy Easter!!!
GD
Do you ever feel like you are being put on a test to see if you pass or fail it? I can't help but to feel this way at times.
In your case, it probably is a test b/c you said she fears that you would just revert back to your old ways in a year or so. Therefore, you will have to go for a lenght of time in order for her to be convenced that you will remain the improved man.
In rare cases, I think S is good for some M. By that I mean that some couples reach a point that they just get tired of each other. They start to get on each other's nerves and the other one's bad habits are harder to endure. It's like you need a vacation from each other. When the R begins to break down, I wish couples would S before they just jump into D. When I was a kid, that is what people did. D was the very last straw. Of course, you didn't hear of as much back then as you do now. But couples now, sleep together one night and file for D the next day....I just don't get it.
As long as she doesn't file for D then you still have time on your side to show her your changes. Even if she did file for D....if she doesn't remarry, you still have that chance, so don't give up.
Thanks Sandi, we are starting the seperation paper work. In NC you have to wait one year and one day before divorce is final so I still have 8 months to maybe show some changes.
Here is a question that I have for others, in DR it states that I need to start the dark side, my W and I still have a talking relationship. Our boys are both into sports and we go to those functions, in fact at many of them we walk around together to get exercise. The other problem is my W works with the same company that I do so we do have some contact through work also. I guess my question is this, what do I do about our time together? I can not stop going to my kids events. We still have to communicate some due to work. I guess I am somewhat thankful that our marriage hasn't ended to the extent that we don't talk at all or see eachother.
I do have a problem of bring up our R with her. I know this is wrong and I have to stop as I know it is probably only pushing her further away.
I asked my W last night if she would consider watching Michelle's DVD set she has for sale in her store about why divorce is not the answer. Is this a good idea to purchase these and have my wife watch them? She said she would maybe watch them, at least it's a start. Any opinions on this?
I can tell you that when I got my own place 2 weeks ago and was happy about finally getting out of my parents house, I saw a softer woman in her that I felt walls may be starting to come down. I was talking to her about what I plan on doing to the yard and other things. She actually helped me put beds together and move things in. We went to dinner that night and a few nights afterwards. I thought I was making progress but stupid me I had to bring our R up and I got shot back down. Now she is back to where she was for the most part.
My W is a giving person by nature, she has stated on many occasions that we can keep this professional while going through with D. So part of me feels that she is only doing all of this because she can be professional and being the type of person she is and other parts of me just hope that maybe she is coming around. Who knows? It's like everytime I bring up trying to save our marriage she has another reason for why we shouldn't. Yesterdays reason was we didn't see eye to eye with the kids, she is the one that disciplines and I am the easy one with them which bothers her. Of course I told her we could work that out but the more we talked the more she would shut down and ask how much longer I planned on staying there.
So what do I do now? We have to communicate due to the kids. Any advice for what I should do from here on out?
Hi GD, the changes I am working on are to control my actions more, I am in counseling now and have been for about the last 3 months. I was put on an anxiety medication which has really helped. I was always one that had a short temper, I seemed to never be happy no matter what I was doing. I am a very competitive person and I feel that hurts me alot in my everyday life as I always strive to win at whatever I do. It's funny I mention that because just yesterday again while talking to my wife she made that comment again, "this is a game to you for you to win by trying to get back home." Although I am very competitive and I want to go back home, this is not the case, this is my life I'm dealing with but I can't make W see that, she only wants to believe this is just a game. I guess she does have her reasons as I have told her in the past that I would change only to go back to being an A_ _. I really am working hard on trying to be more positive, all I ever saw in our M before was the negative and I wasn't shy about telling her about them. I brought her down to my level you could say which is why I am in the situation I am in today. She feels with all of this negative that we had in our M that she was the one that changed and she lost herself in doing so. She didn't like the fact I was always on the computer at home and never spent time talking to her. I can see her point on that now. We did not have much communication other than about the kids. We stopped communicating a while back. W has made the comment that we have better talks now then we did when we were together. Of course I tried to tell her that it would be that way if we were to R but again she didn't want to hear that.
So to make a long story short, I am working on becoming more at ease with myself and others, not to worry about every little thing. Start seeing more positives and less negatives. More communications skills. Better control of my temper and anger.
Like you stated in one of your above posts, I was insecure about myself and I was always afraid someone would come along and sweep my W off her feet and for that reason instead of being a better person to her, I became more in control and negative. Who knew it would be pushing my wife away instead of someone taking her from me.
Ping,
Can I tell you something that is strange and even funny about women? I will use the story about my son when he was a teenager. There was this beautiful girl that went to our church and he really had a crush on her (as they say now, he had the "hots" for her, big time....lol). But, when he tried to win her over enough to even get a date ......she walked all over him. I am sure she could just look in his face and see the "hound dog" look in his eyes. But, she was enjoying making him miserable! That little twit was using all her female whelms to make him do tricks! Finally, he woke up and realized the game she was playing with him. So, this is what he did.....and I was so proud of him...I didn't even have to tell him how to handle this...lol.
Everytime there was a group standing around talking, he made sure that he got in the group and talked to somebody. Or manybe it wouldn't be a group....maybe just another guy. My son was never rude to her, but he just didn't pay her much attention at all. It was like he did not have the time of day for her. So guess what happened? She started coming around to him and trying to get his attention! She would walk up to him while he was talking (or listening) to another person, and he would look at her.....smile that charming smile of his and say, "Hi", and then immediately turn his attention back to the other person and really ignored the girl.
It is kind of hard to explain, but it is like he was always charming and polite....nice and friendly....but the secret was that he did not treat her or show that she was any thing special to him. First thing you know......she is all over him (lol). it was so funny to watch b/c I knew exactly what was going on.
The thing is that women are still like this girl even after they grow up. It is that particular man they think they can't have that they want. The man that doesn't give them the time of day that they want to force him to notice her! It is the challenge! That is why some women can really end up making a fool out of themselves. We have all seen that happen.
Okay, how do you do this in your stitch when you are married with children? You said something that made me think that the two of you see each other at work? If so, you can really show her that she is just another employee......nobody special to you. You treat her like you treat everyone else there.....professional.....polite.....throw in a tad of charm and a warm smile......but do not linger around her.....do not talk to her except when necessary and strickly business or something to do about the kids games, etc. Then, keep the same type of personality.....a little distant, but warm and charming.....you know, like she wants...professional!
Make yourself unavailable!! Stay busy all the time....at least appear to be busy. Learn how to be friendly to others at the work place so you don't appear to be a loner. Make a point to stop and chat a little bit with others around her.....but not chat with her. If she comes up to you as if to join in the coversation, do like my son did.
At the ball games for the kids.....do the same thing. I bet you know some parents there that you can talk with and sit with. Of course you will speak to your wife and appear to be friendly....but don't linger....move on quicly. Keep all the talks about the kids, house, everything professional.
This is detaching! You have to have a certain amount of contact with her, but in your manner and actions......you are showing you are detaching from her. This is when she will start to notice you. Let you charming self show to others. She may pretend not to notice.....but she will. Regain the qualities that drew her to you when you got that first date with her.
She may resist at first b/c of not trusting or trying to convince herself she wants her freedom, but if you are really making the physical, mental and overt changes that you claim......she can't help but notice.
The biggest thing now is do not pursue her. Everything is pressure to her. Don't ask her to watch the DVD or read the books or anything like that. I know how badly you want her to, but it is pressure. Everytime you bring up the subject of the R, it is like poison to her. You might as well shoot her down b/c you will have to start this thing all over again from the beginning. Keep that in mind whenever you are tempted. It shows weakness, and women hate that in their H's.
I think one thing she needs to learn about being on her own and having her "freedom", is the responsibility that goes along with it. If she is going to live on her own, you should not be expected to support her. The kids, yes, but not her. Women don't realize they can't live on child support only.....it is just for the kids. And, I've learned by reading a lot of post here on the board that some H's think they are suppose to continue to make the house payments, etc. That is bull. If she can't make the payments.....she should downsize to what she can afford. Some men say they don't want their kids to have to live with less (talking about nice homes, etc.), but I think the woman has to see how it is going to be without her H in the picture. Man, if I could have stayed here in my home and my H leave and yet pay all the bills.....I would have thought I was in hog heaven! That is not what you want for her.
Okay, enough of that for one night. Take care.
Sandi
Thanks Sandi, I have to say that I was just like how you described your son when she and I first started dating and I thought the more I acted as I didn't want her the more she wanted to be with me. It's funny how things turn on you, now I am the one wanting her and she is the one not wanting me. So you do make a great point.
Do you really not think that purchasing the DVD set of why Divorce is not the Answer is not a good tool for her to watch? I was just hoping that maybe something would be in it that she has not clearly thought out and would make her think about her actions more.
I am not one of those type that believe in letting W stay in the house and I keep paying the payments like nothing has changed. We recenlty purchased this house back in July 07, this was my dream house on a golf course. I find that my worst days going through this are the days I have to go to the house. I love that house and if she does not want to save our M then the house must go. I'm sure I will be paying child support and probably alimony. Don't know how much yet but that is what the lawyers will figure out I guess. One of the clauses I will have in the seperation papers are to either put the house on the market by a certain date or to buy me out by a certain date. W hasn't stated what she will be doing yet, my guess is she is waiting to find out how much she will being paid each month and then make that determination.
Either way thank you for posting. What is your circumstance? Do you have a link to your sitch?
I asked my W last night if she would consider watching Michelle's DVD set she has for sale in her store about why divorce is not the answer
Since you have already brought the subject up to her and she sort of considered it, but didn't give a definite answer.....I would just leave it out where she can see it and then leave it up to her. She may not feel comfortable and even resent watching it with you thinking it is going to point to her as being the bad guy for wanting the D. However, she may watch it while she is home alone. So, since the subject has been approached, that is what I would do. But, please, do not ask her if she has watched it yet or what she thought about it or anything about it. Where ever you put DVD's to watch.....leave it there for her to see, or maybe she will be the one to get it. Anyway, let the choice be hers b/c this is certainly pressure on her. To you, it is hard to try to understand why she is not trying to put more effort into saving the M. To her.....everything you do that brings up the subject is pressure. So, stop talking R.
As you said, you see that when you back away.....it causes her to come closer. Play the mating game. Humans are as strange a creature as any other animal.
Keep posting, reading......oh BTW, I do have a thread over in the Piecing forum......"Sandi's in Piecing from Almost a WAW". Won't be hard to find me....lol. I started out in the MLC forum, went to Newcomers (I think) then to Piecing, then to SSM and now back to Piecing. Been all over the place. But, plan to stay in Piecing now. Mine is a long story b/c I've been married a long time. As I told one person, I couldn't tell everything at once.....tooo long (lol), but I answer a lot of other people's posts and I give bits and pieces of more of my stitch along the way.
Best wishes to you and keep talking to us.
Sandi
Thanks for replying Sandi. I have another question that I need answered from others here. Do I just start the dark side or do I let her know via email, talking or a letter that I am moving on with my life? Not quite sure what to do with this, part of me wants to let her know that I am no longer going to try and just move on. Is this smart?
One other question, has anyone watched Michelle's DVD set, if so, what did you think about it? I have yet to purchase them, if they can help at all then I definitely want to get them and see what may come from it.
Ping, you probably are getting tired of hearing from me so much, but I don't think you should do the dark thing at this time. For one, your kids, and second....don't think the timing is right and you said you two are still talking, and third....I just don't think you are emotionally ready to go dark.
That is just my take on it. Someone else can chime in.
So then what do I do, what I am doing right now is not helping.
Oh yeah, and Sandi, I do not get tired of hearing from you. Any input you have I am all ears to listen.
Hi Ping,
Thank you for stopping by my thread. And in answer to your question yes, you will get much farther in your DBing efforts once you stop having R talks with your W. In my sitch the conversations we've had as of late regarding are R have been initiated by him. My goal during these conversations is to avoid crying at ALL COSTS (I'm a super sensitive female unfortunately) and to affirm what he tells me.. In my sitch he has been trying so I make a point of thanking him when he states that he's trying.
I've briefly skimmed over your thread and think it's great that you are in counseling and realize that you had been negative in your dealings with your wife.. so trying to be upbeat, friendly, complimentary (although not overboard) are good 180's for you. Also, I totally see why you are working on the separation agreement. I would do the same if my H was trying to limit my time with my child as much as your W seems to be doing to you... problem is, for some reason when the lawyers get involved fear and paranoia get mixed in there and you are really going to have to work your butt of with DBing.
Speaking of DBing.. so pleased that you got the book. I don't know about you but finding this website and getting that book truly was a life saver for me.
So, as I mentioned I just skimmed over your thread.. I didn't catch what you are doing to get a life. It seems you have a lot more time on your hands since your wife is limiting the time you get with your kids... it would seem you are in regular contact due to parenting.. are there any subtle changes you can make in your appearance.. I read that you'd lost 20 pounds (and gained a bit back) that's a start.. are you doing something that you've always wanted to do but never had the time.. if not, is there something that you might be interested in taking up hobby/activity wise? And is there some way you can create a bit of mystery?
I've often thought it would be so great if you could buy that "new romance glow" from a department store.. it would be so handy for us LBS.. we could have the glow of a new romance without actually having to have a real new relationship (since adding others to our problem filled marriages make things messy..) but we would be so happy and giddy and glowing that our WAS's would definitely notice!
Gosh, I feel like I'm just rambling now.. and likely sounding a bit goofy..
But thanks again for stopping by my thread.. I will continue to stop by yours!
W2G
Thanks W2G, I am going to try my best to stop having these R talks with W, I feel that I can do it but then sometimes when I get around her it becomes very difficult to hold back what I am feeling.
As far as what I am doing to GAL, I have started back working out at the gym. I plan to get back to the golf course and start playing again, I use to play a couple of times a week and now since the S I have played once in 4 months. I also plan to start riding my mountain bike again, it has been collecting dust for some time and I really enjoy getting out and riding. Time is on my hands right now so I should be able to make these things happen.
Thanks for checking out my sitch and any other feedback you can give me would be great.
Dear Ping,
03/24/08 11:45 PM -- is when I sent what I thought had been my best advice for you at this time. At 12:01 AM --you responded and you agreed completely and said that it even worked when you had dated your W. But, you had a very hard time believing her sitting down with you to watch Michelle's DVD was not a good idea....b/c you believed it would help so much.
The next morning at 8:15 Am -- I responded to that post about the DVD and tried to get you to see that purchasing tapes and books for her to read doesn't work, and I explained why. You respond to my post at 5:53 PM about the idea of you "going dark" on her. At 5:55 you go back to the DVD again. At 6:07 PM--I say I think it is not the right time to go dark and with the kids, etc. it would not work well and that you aren't ready emotionally to go dark and maybe when you are strong enough. At 7:02 PM (same day) you say this:
So then what do I do, what I am doing right now is not helping.
This was less than 24 hours. Does this show what kind of state that you are in??? Sweetie, give it time! When a person emotionally detaches from their S (which you haven't yet) and applies the techniques that I gave you (which you haven't yet) that you even agreed had worked in the past.....you can't expect to see a complete change of heart in less than 24 hours!
I'm not picking on you, I'm just trying to get you to see how impatient you are--to the point of being
frantic. You've got to calm down and be cool if you are to ever expect her to look your way again. You are wanting a magic pill to work over night and it is not going to happen. Nothing magic happens in these cases....only a lot of hard work for a long time. In fact, I recommend that you completely re-read the book again, b/c I think in your frame of mind, you have taken some things out of context or lost the idea along the way or something.....I'm not sure.
You are probably thinking that this is easy for me to say b/c I am not in your shoes. You are correct, I'm not.....but I was almost a WAW and I can tell you that she can see the fear in your eyes, hear it in your voice and see it in your actions....and it spells "weakness" to her. You want to be strong and cool and sexy. You are in panic palace! You have to take a step at a time....not jump straight to the last page of the book.
You agreed with what I told you, but you haven't even tried it out yet. And, I wasn't talking about one time! This has got to be repeated time after time after time....until it gets her attention. Plus we have tried to tell you to get a life. Have you? What are you doing that doesn't include the kids and is just for Ping? Your mind is on her 24/7.....which is normal, I can understand that, but you've got to fight the urges to do all the wrong things and listen to the people here on the board who have been through some of this stuff.
I knew a couple that he coached a little league team. The couple had two boys on the team. After she left him, she would show up at the games to watch the boys play. The H, however, couldn't even watch what was going on in the field b/c of watching her in the stands. Now, who do you think was winning that little game? She came out there all dolled up and acting like a social butterfly going from one person to the other while he was melting in his shoes out there for everyone to see. But, when he finally came to his senses and started acting like the man she fell in love with.....she couldn't get to him fast enough. However, it did not happen over night and that is what I'm trying to tell you here. Go back and read the posts.
Keep working and take care.
Sandi
Hi Sandi, thanks for replying. When I asked what do I do since what I am doing is not working meant if I don't go dark, what do I do because I have not gone dark yet. I felt I needed to go dark to change things up some, I have not been in that mind frame any until now.
My S10 had a ball game tonight, my W and FIL were already there in the bleachers when I got to the game. I spoke to the FIL and sat down a couple of seats in front of them. I made small talk with others around me, not to W. As the game went on, I left the bleachers and went and stood by the dugouts with a few other dads and spoke to them. With 1/2 inning left, I told my kids I had to leave and went and told FIL that I would see him later as I had somewhere to go. I didn't speak to wife and it wasn't that hard doing so.
To answer what I am doing for myself, I have started back working out again. I am going to a gym and doing some cardio and weight lifting. That's about it for right now, I plan on getting my bike from my W's house so I can begin to start riding again and will begin playing golf again in the near future.
I know things will not change over night. I have been at this for 4 months now. Some days are better than others. I am trying to convice myself that I am not going to keep hurting over my R. I know it will be hard but I have to make changes somehow to keep it off my mine 24/7. I feel like letting go, not sure if that's the right thing to do or not, although when I say that, I mean emotionally to help me deal with it better.
Sandi, give me some advice on this, should I let her know that I am not going to continue to chase her? Is this something that I should do? My W thinks this is all a game for me, I am a very competitve person and will do anything to win in whatever I do. She made this comment again to me over the weekend that all I am doing to help myself, "C" and trying to change are only to come back home and then once I won this battle things would go right back to where they were in a years time. I'm not sure how to show that this is not a game and not about winning as I have always been this way. Do I concede to her and let her know she wins, I'm done?
Anyway, thanks again Sandi.
Hey ping,
Sandi is right about you being impatient, but it is quite understandable because many of us who have been at this for a while were exactly where you are in the beginning.
Please go back and reread the suggestions I gave you, GAL, and reread DR (and take notes, highlight, annotate, etc). Consider it your M saving bible. And don't "try" not to have R talks. Just DON'T do it. Resolve not to do it, because it simply won't have the effect you are hoping for (and you should see this by now). It is our instinct to do it, but it will likely only prolong the S or cause her to dig her heels in more.
Regarding the DVD's -- I have no insight into them, but I think Sandi gave you some excellent advice on how to handle them if you've already bought them (or intend to). Are you able to do what she suggested? If not, I would probably bag it altogether UNLESS SHE BRINGS IT UP AGAIN. It is totally true that she will feel like the bad guy if you coax her or push her into watching them and all they do is tell her what she's doing is wrong. Really think about that possibility. She may become quite defensive, and it might push her away even further instead of bringing her to her senses. Also, your pushing her to watch them will be more of your controlling behavior -- remember to do the major 180s on behaviors that you know contributed to your W wanting out of this M.
I also recommend you buy The 5 Love Languages by Chapman and His Needs, Her Needs by Hartley. Both are excellent reads and provide great insight into making Rs work, as well as how your W may feel best loved by you.
Keep working hard and asking questions. Also, you may get more feedback and support by offering help and support on other DBers threads. Build some friendships on here -- they're of great value for you during this difficult time.
GD
Dear Ping,
I am not sure how you can completely go dark with the connection with the kids being in the middle of you and the W. If I understand the meaning of going dark. It would be hard. However, you can use the LRT to let her know where you stand and that this is it and no more pressure, no more chasing, no more R talks, etc., and then detach from her in every way. If you really detach.....then you won't have to convince her that you are not playing a game.....then going dark (as much as possible) will be the natural end result. If you feel that you are ready to turn lose, it will be easier for you to detach, but I wonder if you aren't just feeling emotional fatigue and wanting a change so badly that you are trying to convince yourself you are ready to turn lose. I base that on what your posts have said and how you are on an emotional rollercoaster right now. I know it sounds as though you are being told the same thing over and over, but time and patient is really the key here. Go back and read what we have told you since you started this tread. Put it into action and keep at it. One ball game doing what you did is fine, but it will take a lot of ball games before she starts to get the message is real. But, I believe you can do it. You are trying to gain the tools and put them to use. That is a lot more that some people do and it says a lot about what kind of person you are. Keep on keeping on doing what we have suggested. Do go back and study your DB.
Take care.
Sandi
Ping,
I read your story. Your's sounds very similar to mine. My wife said some of the same things to me. She said she had lost herself, does not like what she has become. She told me she was done on Jan. 26, 08, then again on Feb.13, 08 and filed for divorce on Feb. 26, 08..She has filed the papers and they are at the courthouse but I have never picked them up. We are in MC now. We are still living in the same house but have been in separate rooms since December. I am on the same rollercoaster you are and patience is not one of my virtues. I really miss my wife. Today has been really sad day for me because I have let the memories flood back and it's hard to maintain my composure. It's hard for me to take my time and let my W have some space. I know she feels pressured. I just wanted to wish you good luck. I read your thread and it sounds like you are getting very good advice. I wish I had some to offer you but I am very new to this and am trying to learn as fast as I can. One thing I can offer is this, exercise if you're into it and play golf. I play at least once a week. I also thought I saw where you were in North Carolina?? If so, then I am your neighbor in Tennessee, 9 miles from your state line.
Hi Ping,
Just read your thread and think I can offer some advice. I've seen some positive results... my W hasn't come back or anything but at least we're on good terms now.
We separated and she moved out because she couldn't handle my constant pressure. I didn't go dark, but I did cut the communication down a lot and stopped initiating the R talk altogether. I lined up a few activities to keep me occupied during this time, I GAL you could say. Some of these were things I wouldn't normally do. For example, W loves to snowmobile but I never cared for it... sooo one of the things I did was go snowmobiling with some friends and I had a blast. Next time I saw W we went out for dinner. When W asked what I been up to she was impressed and intrigued by the things I was doing and how I snapped out of my post-separation funk.
What was even better is that GAL'ing was making me happier. This was good because I needed to feel happy but W also noticed. We started spending more time together to the point where we talked everyday and went out together on date nights several times a week.
Every time I see W I am smiling, I listen to what she has to say, am considerate, and do my best to make sure she feels comfortable around me. I really have to battle with my internal feelings to pull this off, but for the most part it works. W and I have been getting along great... better than we have in a long time. What you should try to do is be in a good mood around her. Don't say anything to bring her down. Don't initiate R talks. When you see her try to look your best and smell good, use cologne.
You want her to fall back in love with you, and to do that you need to try to be the person she fell in love with to begin with. This requires some soul searching on your part and the strength to put the negatives of the past behind you. Be forgiving. This can be hard but it needs to be done. You need to figure out what W wants and be that if you can.
Hope that helps. The methods outlined in DR to have helped me reconnect with my W in a positive way. She still need more time to figure things out so patience is the next thing I need to work on
Thanks Dazed and Tennessee for stopping by my thread and posting. Yeah I have never been one to have patience. I am going to really try to lower my expectations and stop talking about our R as I do know that is the right thing to do. Again, I will have to continue to work on my patience because I know that I will be tempted to talk about it again if I feel there is a connection being made.
Rollercoaster ride is tough day in and day out. My W has given me so many mixed signals over these 4 months that I can't even concentrate on what is going on. She has yet to file, I started the filing process last week but put a hold on it just yesterday as something didn't feel right. The thing is that in NC you don't have to file, as long as your apart 1 year and 1 day then you can become D without ever filing seperation papers.
I'm not sure where we are going to go from here. I am going to keep trying to stay low and get things off my mind. Yes, I will start back playing golf, a tough part for me is our house is on a golf course and that is one of my true passions, now I don't live there of course but I'm only 3 miles away.
Do you ever feel like part of your wife wants you to lay low and leave her alone and other parts of her want you fighting for her. This is all confusing. My W thought once we S that I would be in another R in no time, she thought I didn't care for her and she was just convenience. She thought many things that she is finding not to be true.
Again, thanks for posting and I wish the best of luck to you.
Good to hear you're going to pick up golf again. I've been doing a lot more of that myself lately. I've found that this separation has been a great opportunity to get back to doing the things I enjoyed. Don't get me wrong, it's a crappy situation but believe it or not there are some positives that go along with it. Try to focus on the positives instead of the negatives.
About W wanting space and also wanting you to fight, I think both are true in my situation. W likes it when we have our date nights but doesn't want me to know every detail of her life anymore. I really don't care to know either. My rule of thumb is to not bring up any touchy subject when we hang out. I don't ask to see her everyday, but we manage to see eachother most days. Before I set boundaries about not wanting to see her when she's seeing OM she was the one initiating most of the contact.
Your W is in a fragile place right now. She'll look for any excuse to see you in a negative light. The solution is to not give her any excuses. Try to be pleasant with her no matter what. Don't get angry. If a disagreement comes up that must be addressed be rational and try to understand where she's coming from. Work with her needs to try to get what you want.
Those are the things that seem to get results for me.
Hi Ping,
Thanks for stopping by my thread.
I read through your thread. You have gotten some excellent advice. I will reiterate some of the advice others have given you.
First of all, you need to GAL. You've been working out at the gym - that's great. You mentioned golf and mountain biking. Do both of them. It really helps with the PMA. You need to take your focus off W and focus on yourself and your kids right now. GAL will make you feel a lot better about yourself and soon enough this will show through to W. But don't do it simply for this reason, do it for yourself.
Secondly, do not pursue W and do not talk about R. You have been S for 4 months and what you were doing has not worked. You need to stop pleading with her to reconsider or you will keep pushing her further away. Try it for a period of time and see what happens. Be pleasant around W when you see/speak to her even if you have to prepare yourself mentally ahead of time. Once you start to see some babysteps, it becomes easier to do.
Give some of these things a try and see what happens. But remember to be patient. It may take time for your W to notice the changes in you.
Thanks D&C and Addie for stopping by and giving me your input, I really appreciate it and I am determined that I will stop pursuing her.
Just left her "our" house as I had to drop S10 off from the weekend, we had some good conversations and I did notice that we had a lot of eye contact. Now I really don't know if we have been having eye contact or not as I have not paid any attention to it but since being on these boards for the last week I am trying to see these types of things. We did not talk anything about our relationship at all, we just really talked about other things and all went well. I had to drop my laundry off there earlier today as I don't have a washer/dryer yet and she has been doing my clothes for the past 3 weeks since I finally left my parents house and got my own place.
I would like to add that I told her one day this week that I have dropped my going forward with the lawyers. She is the one that wants this and I don't, something told me it was not the right thing to do. Anyway, on Friday night when I picked the kids up she was acting ill, she told me she received the letter from my lawyer the day before about my intentions of going forward with our process. I told her she could tear that up as I have put a hold on that. She asked what changed my mind, I just told her that I didn't think it was the right thing to do. She stated did you not like them or something? I said no, it had nothing to do with that, in fact I did like them. I ended up asking her for my wedding ring back that I gave back to her about 2 weeks ago when I saw no signs going my way and thought the Divorce was the right thing to do. Her statement to that was "why do you want it back, you were so easy to give it up." Now I don't try to read alot into this as I am trying my best to get all of this off my mind and have a peaceful life without all of the drama. What I did read into it though is she thought I was giving up too easily but who really knows what she meant by it.
I also went on and told her that I was not going to keep hurting like I have been over the last 4 months, it was not healthy and that I have to let her go. W didn't have anything to say to this.
I also told her I would not be fighting her for anything in the D, she could have whats in the house, all that I ask is that she makes her mind up by May if she plans on keeping the house or selling it. I know my rights on all of this, NC is a 50/50 ED state so I know what she is entitled to and will not try to do her wrong as I don't think she would do that either.
Neither of us are seeing OP, I told her that I know our feelings will change when that happens, of course she told me that I would be the one that did that first as she has no plans on doing so. I can tell you that I read a lot of the threads on here and keep seeing where the LBS keeps finding out about someone else after they have seperated, yes it makes me wonder but my heart tells me this is not the case.
So to make a long story short, I am seperating myself from the rollercoaster. I know it will not be easy but I do have fight in me which has kept me hear for the last 4 months dealing with this. I wish I would have listened to my counselor and what another divorce book told me to do but instead I listened to a close friend who went through a divorce and took his advice on what I should be doing which turned out to be the wrong thing. EX. texting, emailing, calling, begging, saying ILY and all of the others that so many have done. He had good intentions but it just wasn't the right things to save my M.
I will stay low key, be a little mysterious and GAL. I should have done this a long time ago but it is starting and I am feeling better about it. I did get a phone call while I was there this morning dropping clothes off and she did ask "who was that?" I will keep up on these boards and keep my spirit up. It is what it is, I can't control what she does or doesn't do, whatever happens, happens, I will have to live with it but I will continue to keep busting my tail to be better and hopefully she will see it and will want to give our M another try.
Thanks for listening, sorry so long of a post.
Ping,
I am praying for you brother. Play golf..76 for me on Sunday. best round I've had in a while. I was finally able to disconnect myself from my sitch for a few hours on the course. First time I have been able to do that since December. Keep up the good fight and maybe things will turn for you and your W. Stay positive.
good post Ping and your last paragraph is the way forward IMO. It's a well put paragraph of what seems to be the general opinion of what to do in this situation though I've yet to get DR or DB books (ordering tonight).
GL. Hope I can get swinging the clubs again when weather gets nicer. Haven't played in 2 summers !!!
Hi Ping,
Sounds like you're getting strong buddy!! Good for you. With time for some reason it truly does get easier. With time I have become so much more independent.. and being less needy has really helped my PMA.. kind of gave me my self respect back!!
You are well on your way my friend!
W2G
Thanks for replying M, Arthur and W2G, I am going to try this out for 2 weeks and see if anything changes, I am surely hoping I will see some positives but you never know.
M, great round of golf Sunday, 76 way to go. I use to be a scratch player and had ambitions of trying to go pro. My kids came along and I put all of my effort into there success. My 10 year old son can shoot in the 70's from the senior tees and my 6 year old can shoot in the 70's from junior tees. The sad part is since the S, none of us have played, we have a house on the golf course and the driving range is only about 500 yards away and we get free balls at the range, we use to hit the range almost every day after school/work. Of course alot of this is where I didn't invest in my M and therefore I am where I'm at. I sure miss those days.
Hi Ping...just catching up with you! Glad to see you are attempting to detatch and GAL!! Awesome my friend!!
Have you set any goals for yourself? One of my very first goals was to be back home with my H by Jan 2008.....that's one to laugh at....a) it didn't happen b) it didn't happen because it was WAY to big of a goal!! So now my goals are a little simpler!! I think you get the picture!!!
As hard as it is for all of us, patience, GAL, and not talking to our S about the very thing that is driving us all to these boards, we do it...and now you are too! It's a crazy roller coaster ride, and we're all ready to get off of it and stay off!!! Keep doing what you're doing. Stay focused and motivated! The more you push, she will push back. My DB coach told me to put down the rope, like in tug of war, when our S, has no one to tug with or at, things will start to change. It takes time and patience. You can do this, and you are!
take care my friend
Christa
I am going to try this out for 2 weeks and see if anything changes, I am surely hoping I will see some positives but you never know.
What exactly are you referring to that you are going to try out? If it is DBing tactics and strategies, 2 weeks is a mere grain of sand on the beach. Rarely will 2 weeks of change do anything to sway a spouse when so much damage has been done in a M over so much time. It's sad, but that's the reality. I think I read somewhere in DR that it usually takes about 10 weeks before a WAS will even begin to entertain the idea that their LBS'S changes are for real. Don't expect to change her mind in 2 weeks. Plus, even if you did, you can't just quit then and think everthing will be okay. DBing is a lifestyle, and the changes you make in you must be for the long haul, and you should always be striving to adapt them as needed to continue helping your M to grow and remain healthy and strong.
GD
GD, what I mean by that is I am going to stop talking about relationship at all, be upbeat whenever I am around W and act as if. I have not been doing well with this until this week. My issue with some of this is W didn't think I loved her and needed her, I hope this doesn't backfire on me only to show her "see, I knew you didn't want to be with me and you are now proving that."
Well tonight went well at the ballfield. I was very upbeat around W, in fact she, myself and 3 other parents got on the subject about having children and the labor time that each of the women went through. We talked about how our two boys were born and how we came up with there names. My wife jokingly was telling these other parents about how she told me she thought she was going into labor with our 2nd son and I didn't believe her and left the house to go to work and she had to call me 20 minutes later to tell me to come home that it was time. "The reason I didn't believe her is because we had many false alarms with first son and I just believed this to be one of them." One of the funny things to this conversation is she told me about two weeks ago that I was never there for her when she needed me, and she brought this episode up as being one of the times, at least she was laughing about it tonight while telling the other parents. We talked about how it was in the delivery room and how beautiful of boys that we have. It was great tonight.
I left about 15 minutes early, trying to be a little suspicious.
I don't know if I did the right thing or not here but my youngest son wanted me to carry him to the store and get him some candy, so I carried him, I picked my W up a KitKat bar, this is her favorite. Is this considered persuing, I don't think she took it that way, but she has also said over the last 4 months that I didn't know what her likes were. She told me thank you and told our youngest son that KitKat's were her favorite. I guess shortly after we S, I went to Burger King to bring some dinner to the house, I brought her a Whopper, not thinking as I couldn't think clearly at the time, her favorite is a bacon double cheeseburger, she made it clear to me that night, "see, you don't even know what I like." I know she always ordered this but my mind wouldn't let me think on this particular night and I got to hear about how I don't even know her.
Thanks Christa and GD for checking in on me.
Hey Ping,
Just checking in.. how are you doing? You haven't posted in a good few days now!
W2G
I just took a break from the boards for a few days. For some reason I started feeling down when I came on these boards, reading all of the posts and they made me begin to think that there is no hope in my situation. I have been really down these past few days.
Unfortunately I talked to my W about our R again, I know it is not the right thing to do but I felt I had to do it. Her comments are why would I want to live my life in misery as I have the past 14 years. We have been S over 4 months now and she is not letting go of any of the anger she has built up. I really want to save our R but it is becoming harder and harder. How can you be with someone for 22 years, married 14 years and have no feelings left? I can't understand this. I was a jerk as a H and didn't treat her as I should have, I never thought we would end up like this. I don't know which way to go from here, as you can see, I am really down on myself right now. Hopefully I will begin to feel better soon as this is no fun.
I think moving out on my own a month ago, "when I left my parents" has really set in this week and got me down. Do you ever feel useless? Let's hope better days are in the near future.
I just took a break from the boards for a few days. For some reason I started feeling down when I came on these boards, reading all of the posts and they made me begin to think that there is no hope in my situation. I have been really down these past few days.
Unfortunately I talked to my W about our R again, I know it is not the right thing to do but I felt I had to do it. Her comments are why would I want to live my life in misery as I have the past 14 years. We have been S over 4 months now and she is not letting go of any of the anger she has built up. I really want to save our R but it is becoming harder and harder. How can you be with someone for 22 years, married 14 years and have no feelings left? I can't understand this. I was a jerk as a H and didn't treat her as I should have, I never thought we would end up like this. I don't know which way to go from here, as you can see, I am really down on myself right now. Hopefully I will begin to feel better soon as this is no fun.
I think moving out on my own a month ago, "when I left my parents" has really set in this week and got me down. Do you ever feel useless? Let's hope better days are in the near future.
Ping, I know what you are feeling. My W says the same thing yours does. I feel we are married to the same woman. My W left me a message on the cell this morning that the papers were to be served on me today. I thought we were making progress but now I just don't know. This is very hard on me and I do not know how I will feel when the papers hit my hands. I question myself as to if I can keep my little changes going or will I let anger come sit on my shoulder and be my best friend?? I know if anger overtakes me I will be finished for good with no hope of reconciliation..It is hard to keep going on when your world is upside down.
Thanks M, I just don't understand this thinking. I'm sorry to hear about your sitch, I will get over to your thread and post. I guess this is common for the WAW, they must teach them this in school and us guys just never paid any attention to it as at the time it didn't pertain to us. Things are not going well for me lately. It's like everything I see or do I am thinking about my stich. The only time I don't think about it is when I am busy at work or on the phone. I do a lot of driving at work as I am a regional manager so between driving and living by myself, I have a lot of free time to let my mind wonder.
As I'm sure we all do, we try to think of that one thing that can bring our W back to us, after 4 months, it hasn't happened yet. Part of me knows that the only way I am going to get this off of my mind is to get involved in another R, but I also know that is death to my sitch. and I obviousy do not want my W to get involved with someone either. So I just keep hanging on and fight one day at a time. Who knows what the future holds for us.
Hey man, my thoughts on all this-Play till the last whistle blows. My intention is to live in this house even if we are in separate rooms until the judge says it's over. Why should I let my wife off easy??? I hate to take that attitude but what the hell. I know I screwed up our R. I've admitted it, took responsibility for it, hell took responsibility for things I should not have. Why should I pack up and make it easy on her. I have changed every thing I am doing. My wife will be 44 in may, was 42 when my D was born..has not had period in 6 months...but it's all on me according to her. It's not all on me brother, it's not all you.
Play till the last whistle blows my friend. Stay busy, go to the driving range. I know about the driving man, 50 minutes to work for me one way twice a day. Luckily I have XM radio and the comedy channels keep me laughing. I work with a guy in a warehouse who keeps me laughing also. he knows my sitch and listens when I bitch.
Do not sit idle, find something to do.I am still playing golf and working out..if not for that and my daughter, I'm ssure I would be in trouble.
Why should I let my wife off easy??? I hate to take that attitude but what the hell.
M from TN,
If you hate take that attitude, then the choice/solution is simple -- don't have it. Seriously. I'm not saying it's easy, but I'm saying it's simple. It is true that you must get the anger and frustration out before you can get to a healthy place to do this, so get it out (just not towards your W). Once that dust has settled, work on letting go of the rope and forgiving her. Empathize and do your best to understand how she's feeling and how much pain this has been for her too. Truth of the matter is, she was in this pain you're feeling much earlier than you were ever aware of. She didn't just up and decide the day that she dropped the bomb that she was unhappy -- it had been eating at her for quite some time prior to that day.
So, ask yourself this -- is spite, revenge, getting even, making her suffer, making it hard on her, etc, going to help you grow from this experience or make you a better man? Be fair and be a man -- a GOOD man -- and do what is right. No regrets, my friend. Whatever you do, have no regrets.
Ping,
Unfortunately I talked to my W about our R again, I know it is not the right thing to do but I felt I had to do it. Her comments are why would I want to live my life in misery as I have the past 14 years.
Of course you FELT you had to do it, but did you really have to? Your natural inclination is to do this, but the more you do it, the more you begin to realize that it isn't working, and only rekindles the embers of pain that this situation is creating for both of you. Also, now that you did it, you realize that it only reinforced her feelings about it, and has brought you down emotionally. Use that as a reminder the next time you desire to discuss the M anytime soon. If a good time ever does come, it will be quite a while from now.
We have been S over 4 months now and she is not letting go of any of the anger she has built up.
Give her more time, my man. In reality, 4 months just isn't that long (although it seems like an eternity for us). It is going to take a lot of time and patience on your part. No short cuts, brotha -- exercise patience and make it your best friend (along with empathy and understanding).
Part of me knows that the only way I am going to get this off of my mind is to get involved in another R,
It will get easier -- trust me on this, brotha. Also, your statement above is not true. Until you deal with your failed M (if it doesn't work out), accept it, forgive your W
AND YOURSELF, and build a strong, happy, and healthy R with yourself, you will neither get your mind off of your W or have a healthy/fulfilling R with anyone else. In addition, a new R with someone else will be unfair to that person until all of your baggage from this M has been thoroughly dealt with. You won't be emotionally available to that person. Plain and simple.
Don't NOT get into another R just because it will seal the deal with W and an imminent D -- don't do it simply because you're not emotionally and mentally ready.
GD
Hey GD,
I know what you're saying and my post above was not a "hate" type post. I don't hate my W. She wants me to leave my house. I'm not leaving till it's over. That's what I meant when I said "Why should I make it easy on her". I'm not being vindictive. I want to save my M. She wants no part of it.I know she's been in pain for a long time and I'm sorry I have done the things I have done. I can't go back and fix the past. I'm tryiong to be a better person now. I'm playing till the last whistle blows. She's spitting venom and hurling insults right now. I am taking the blows but not returning any punches. I'm doing what's right.
GD, you seem to be very knowledgable about this. I try to take your advice, man it is just hard sometimes. Some days I feel great and other days it is just HARD. BTW, how is your sitch going, last I looked, things were looking better for you.
[quote=M from Tennessee
Play till the last whistle blows my friend. Stay busy, go to the driving range. I know about the driving man, 50 minutes to work for me one way twice a day. Luckily I have XM radio and the comedy channels keep me laughing. I work with a guy in a warehouse who keeps me laughing also. he knows my sitch and listens when I bitch.
Do not sit idle, find something to do.I am still playing golf and working out..if not for that and my daughter, I'm ssure I would be in trouble.[/quote]
Sounds like some good ideas. I let my XM run out, I use to listen to the PGA network everyday on my rides, maybe it's time to renew, it sure beats listening to music that only reminds you of your sitch.
Just a little journaling, S10 had ball game tonight, had a good night sitting with W in bleachers and talking. After game we went back to her (OUR) house and had some dinner. Haven't done that in a while. S7 has practice tomorrow night, I told W I will pick boys up from school and just swing by and pick her up at about 6:30 tomorrow night to go to practice. She seemed fine with it. There were no R talks at all. When I first moved out of my parents about a month ago, during the first week we were having good interactions and carrying each other to the practices and going to dinner after some of them if it were not too late, but dumby me just had to bring up how great everything felt as it felt like we were a family again, of course this was a major backslide and my W closed off saying she didn't want to give me the wrong impressions. I will NOT speak anything about our R as I want to be able to do things with them as a family and not put any pressure on her. I learned from my last time as I thought headway was being made and it all got closed off. Hopefully she will not think about tonight too much and decide to just not go tomorrow night, that would be something she would do if she feels she is letting the door open too much.
Sounds like you had a very pleasant evening. If you do go with W tomorrow night, remember not to bring up any talk about R no matter how well things may be going. Let W initiate any R talk. As you may have noticed since your S, any R talk you have initiated has caused W to become distant. Keep doing what is working and avoid what has not worked.
Just a little journaling, S10 had ball game tonight, had a good night sitting with W in bleachers and talking. After game we went back to her (OUR) house and had some dinner. Haven't done that in a while. S7 has practice tomorrow night, I told W I will pick boys up from school and just swing by and pick her up at about 6:30 tomorrow night to go to practice. She seemed fine with it. There were no R talks at all. When I first moved out of my parents about a month ago, during the first week we were having good interactions and carrying each other to the practices and going to dinner after some of them if it were not too late, but dumby me just had to bring up how great everything felt as it felt like we were a family again, of course this was a major backslide and my W closed off saying she didn't want to give me the wrong impressions. I will NOT speak anything about our R as I want to be able to do things with them as a family and not put any pressure on her. I learned from my last time as I thought headway was being made and it all got closed off. Hopefully she will not think about tonight too much and decide to just not go tomorrow night, that would be something she would do if she feels she is letting the door open too much.
Good for you man, Keep it up and hang in there.
Well another day in the books, I have kids this weekend and both boys have baseball games, one Saturday and one Sunday.
I have a question, I am more the laid back parent with our boys, me S10 went to a baseball game tonight with one of his friends in the neighborhood, it was 85 degrees here today and he wanted to wear shorts, I didn't see nothing wrong with this, as if I were going that is what I would have worn also, well my W calls about 5:30 to talk to him and I told her he has already left, she asked if he put his jeans on, I told her no, it was 85 degrees outside and he didn't want to wear them, well of course this pissed her off and she said I will go by his friends house and be the good parent and make him wear jeans.
In one of our last R talks she pointed out that this is one of our drawbacks because we don't see eye to eye on our kids. Am I suppose to let go of what I believe and make decisions on what I think she would want? I have a hard time with this. I was brought up where we played everyday in our neighborhood and had fun, she was brought up where she did not and stayed in most of the time. We really do see differently on this issue. My oldest S wanted to walk home from school today to my house which is only 1/4 mile from school, there are probably 100 kids that walk home as we live in a community development where the school is, she would not let him, I see nothing at all wrong with this but I didn't go against her and let him but I think she is being too protective. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks.
I can't understand the deal with the shorts. I would think that you should be able to make everyday decisions for the boys when you have them on the weekends. Unless it's some kind of emergency, illness, hospital thing..
I can see her point about the walking home from school I guess. Mothers are like that with their boys. How old is the oldest? If he's 15 or so and she's saying no then that's a little strange I think. If he's 10-13, she's probably thinking he's not ready yet. I'm like you I would not have a problem with it..but mothers with their sons...that's a whole different ballgame.
Oldest S is 10, he see's all of these other kids walking home from school and he really wants to, this does not bother me at all as there are at least 100 kids that walk home from this school every day and this is an elementary school which he is in the 5th grade which is the oldest grade there. I understand her point on it but I also see that there is no harm in him walking home. Oh well, we will see.
BTW, I did see W later after the phone call as S7 and I had to go by there and get there clothes for this weekend, all seemed fine then, we didn't talk about the earlier phone call, I had to remind myself not to bring it up as I did not like the comment she stated of being the good parent and carrying him some jeans. I don't even know if she carried some over there or not as son has not came home yet, I expect him anytime now.
don't know what the future holds. I can not get her to MC as she doesn't feel that will teach her anything that she doesn't already know, we did go to one about 2 months after the seperation and she says she didn't get anything from it.
This is kind of funny to me b/c that was what the counselor I went to the first time told me. After talking to me she said she could not tell me anything that I did not already know. Now, what she meant by that is that I have read a lot of books on the subject of M and R over many years. I have a feeling your W has done the same thing, so that is what she means. She feels that she has read and studied everything about the subject and the the C could not tell her anything new that she hasn't already read or heard. She has probably been doing this for many years that you didn't even have a clue about.
Ping, you know I speak bluntly at times, so I'm going to say this and I think you are man enough to take a 2x4 up against your head. You have said in more than one post that you were a big jerk in the M and that you controlled her and just did not treat her well at all. You gave most of your time to the boys instead of investing in the MR and filling her "love bank". I have told others that females are likes roses and if you don't feed and water them....they will wilt and die. Men don't seem to get that! Wives put up with the bad attitudes, abuse, control, neglect, or whatever the H may be doing for years......and then she has had enough. When she is drained of all her feelings of desire, love, etc., she just wants to end it. Then the man doesn't understand what has happen to his wife! He gets frantic and does all the wrong things to try to get her to stay with him and it pushes her away.
Some of the men find their way to this board and seek help.....like you did. That is good. They buy Michelle's DR book....that is great! But, they can't get it into their thick heads that what the wife put up with for years and years cannot be undone in a few weeks or even months. You were a jerk! You admitted it. So, what did you expect? Did you think that a few talks would work magic and she would melt at your feet and be all so happy to live with you again? You see, you wanted to
fix her! You are the one that you need to focus on to get "fixed" and allow her time to do her own self improvement.
I'm not trying to sound like a bitch......I'm trying to get your eyes open, Ping. I am a woman and I know how your W is feeling and thinking. She went so many years of just
enduring the R and was very unhappy, but she probably did a good job of "covering up" her true feelings. You manipulated her. She had no freedom or to use her own mind and free will. Of course she lost herself and didn't know who she was. You did not
allow her to know that b/c you controlled everything! You did not feed the rose and she wilted and died. You drained all the love from her "love bank" and never made any "deposits".....so now she is empty.
So, what do you do? You have asked that several times. You start
all over, Ping. Start fresh. You become the man she once fell in love with and that means a lot of hard work and not magic and not in a few months. I personally think you will have to just start a brand new R with her b/c she will not re-enter what was there before. You messed up big time! She does not trust you. I don't blame her for leaving you. I would not have put up with you for a month b/c I am the type of woman that will use her own free volition and no H is going to manipulate my life. I believe in a W showing respect for her H and I believe in him being the head of the home. But I also believe that he should love his W and put her first in his life and
cherish her with all of his being. You did
not do that and you certainly did not
show her that she was cherished.
Now that I have give you a beating, let me say that if I did not care what happen to you and your family, I would not be sitting here typing my fingers off when I should be getting ready for bed. We have tried to encourage you and give you hope. Your W has not done things the way she should either. She got her freedom, but she still is not happy. So, she has to have time to "find herself" and know who she is.....find her identity apart from you.
You took that away from her, so now you owe her that time to get herself together. We have told you to work on yourself and improve yourself, well, she has to do the same thing. But, you are still falling apart and have not calm down to the point of being "cool" (as the kids say). Time, Ping, time...time....and more time. Look how many years you were together. And don't dare even to think about getting into another R with a woman! That would be the worst thing you could do at this point.
That (a R with OW) is what would endorse her feelings that you never really loved her........it wouldn't be applying the DB like you thought in the beginning.
Okay, about the boys walking home from school, the clothes, etc. She was out of line about the clothes. If they are with you for the weekend, you should be able to call the shots as to what the kids wear. When they are with her, she makes that decision, but not when they are with you. The walking home is a fear she has b/c of all the crap she hears on the news about kids disappearing and never being found again. It is b/c she is a mother and she wasn't raised like a boy......so it is hard for her not to be over protective. Try to understand that. You said there were about a 100 kids walking home in that community....but are they all in a large group from the time they leave school until your kids reach home, or do your boys have a distance to walk alone? Anyway, you two will just have to reach some type of compromise about that.
I did not say what I have to make you mad........just to try to wake you up and see the light. You are trying, but you are still very impatient and can't accept that it is going to take a long time. If you feel that she is the most valuable person on earth.....you will work your ass off to become the man she fell in love with and you will draw her back...the right way. It will take some convincing for her to see and trust you again. Is she worth it? Can you do the work and wait the time?
Thanks Sandi for your input, I really do appreciate it. Yes I am impatient, that is something I am working on. My W is worth holding out for and saving our M. I know that I did not put enough love into the deposit in our marriage that I should have done, as many others here, we thought everything was fine.
I have decided that I would wait the whole time if needed, in NC it takes a year for a D to be final, that is over 7 months from now. I will work hard to do what is needed to make me a better person and hopefully she will see the changes that take place. I want nothing more than to save our family as that is the most important thing in my life.
Really Sandi, thank you for being honest with me, I don't get offended by your comments and I really appreciate you taking the time to come here and give your feedback.
Dear Ping, I am glad to hear that and I have no doubt that you can step-up to do what needs to be done. Like you said, most people think everything is fine b/c their S stops saying anything and seems all is behind them, so it is a shock when they are hit with the "bomb". But Ping, there are a lot of success stories. Those on the board that think that there aren't any is partly due to the fact that most move on with their lives after the M is healed and eventually stop posting. One of the main persons that helped me stuck around for a long time after her H came back and they pieced their M together again. She wanted to help folks like us that are here, but she hasn't had a thread in a long time and I don't see her posting to others, so she is involved with her family. There are others, too, that have healed R and have left the board. Someday, your M will be healed and for a while I hope you will hang around to help those that are new to the board reaching out for advice. You will be able to look back at what you have learned and help others.
Don't give up Ping. You will slip from time to time....we all do, just don't quit. Stay strong and determined.
You take care of Ping! Okay? We care about you and your family making a success story.
Sandi
Ping,
Hi. I have been following your situation. I know you don't want to hear this, but I think you need to revisit one issue.
I think there is a big possibility of another man being in the picture. It is extremely rare in these situations that there isn't. Please don't put your head in the sand on this issue.
Do some more digging. Your situation is pointing to that in every direction. You need to find this out by doing some investigation work.
I know how hard this is to hear, but I have not seen any other poster encourage you to look into this possibility deeper. It is one of the most common patterns with a wayward spouse there is.
Thanks again Sandi, I really appreciate your input and I too hope that all will work out in my sitch. I have often wondered why there are not too many success stories on these boards but like you I have thought they probably are working on their R and have quit posting.
Hi gucci loafer, thanks for stopping by my thread. On your comment about other man, I can tell you that for the first time since I have been on these boards I visited the forum on this board about OP in R just yesterday to try and see if I am not seeing this for myself.
My W and I were actually junior high sweethearts, I was 15 and she 13 when we first started dating. Actually next Friday, 4-18 will make 22 years of our first date together which was a junior high school dance. My wife has never been with any other M than myself. We dated all through school and were married back in 93. During our M I have never suspected another person. Even to this day I don't suspect another person although just this week I have been trying to open my eyes more to see.
I pay our cell phone bill so I see all of the calls she places as she does mine since the bill goes to her house and it is always open when I get it. I only have my kids every other weekend which does not leave her anytime in my opinion to be with someone else. I have the boys this weekend and after youngest S and I went out to eat we went by W's house to get their clothes, we didn't leave until around 8:00, she may have left to go out after that but I don't think so.
The bad thing is that almost every post I have read on this board points to OP, I am not going to just dismiss this, I will try and look further although I really feel she is not with OM. She states she is just so worn out and tired from trying to make our M work and I never did any trying, it was always her. I'm not sure if she will ever get untired of working at it but I am hoping she does.
I hope that I don't find out you are correct because that would change this whole sitch. I will post that info. if it does come out.
Ok. Good job. What about someone she works with? What about an internet contact she is corresponding with? What has she been up to on her weekend without the kids? Do you think she is just sitting home by herself all weekend?
Keep digging. If she doesn't have a crush on another man, then you are in much better shape than if she does. You need to be like a private investigator until you know for sure. Explore all possibilities.
I am not trying to make you feel bad, but a woman almost NEVER leaves a man unless they have interest in another man. It is like seeing the same movie over and over.
I also agree with what Sandi has been telling you. You are hurting your situation badly every single time you bring up a relationship talk. You are underestimating the damage you are doing. It puts you back at square one. Stop it. Don't make any more excuses. This should be your first and primary objective when around her right now. Lighten up around her and show her that you are a happy person. People like to be around happy people. You don't have to over do it, but show consistency in your actions. She is feeling pressured. It is hard for someone to commit to another person when they feel pressured to commit.
It is much easier for them when they do it on their own without pressure. Make this a top priority. Set a small goal to start with of say... 2 weeks with no relationship talks. Small goals that are reachable make it easier to reach big goals.
It sounds like your wife views you somewhat as another child to deal with. That is a huge turnoff to a woman. A woman wants a man she can depend on and one who is emotionally strong, but sensitive to HER feelings. Don't point out your changes to her verbally. She WILL notice changes in you if you stay consistent and nice to her. Don't make this more complicated than it really is.
Hi GL, most of the time on weekends she doesn't have the kids she doesn't really do much of anything, this weekend we were at the ballfields all day yesterday until about 6:30 last night, her mother and mother's BF were at the house and they went out to dinner. She was back home after that. Friday night she was at home by herself. She will sometimes go out with friends to dinner and a movie but as far as I know that is it. As far as work goes, we both work for the same company so if there was anyone she was seeing at work I believe I would know about it. She is not into computers, as that was one of her gripes with me because I was constantly on them so I don't see her emailing others, she just doesn't do it. Her weekdays are work until 5:00 and then off to get the boys and to ball practice, then home which is normally around 9:00 and off to bed. I just don't see there being another man.
Her issues with me are I was a controlling individual and nothing seemed to make me happy. I did not put any effort into our M as I thought we were OK as many others here. We seemed to argue alot and I was a verbal abuser with a lot of put downs to her for no reason at all. She had just had enough of it.
What is currently making this easier for W is she has the kids all but every other weekend, she is still in our house, I am paying the house payment, not a whole lot has changed in her mind except the fact that she no longer has to walk on egg shells without me being there which is what she likes. At first I was getting alot of mixed feelings with her, she didn't know which way she wanted to go with our M, now it appears she is set on ending it as she no longer brings up things she was in the past, she would bring up things about what we needed to do to the house and vacations with the kids but that has been a few months back and I haven't heard anymore on those types of things from her. Of course when she would bring these things up I would provoke R talks and would ask her how she could talk about the future if she doesn't want me in them.
Sorry for the long post, it just appears things have gone from where I did have more hope in the beginning to not having a lot of hope where we are today.
I have a question for the readers of my thread, my W and are only 3 miles apart and we have ball practice with our kids quite a few days a week. Is it wise for me to initiate either letting them ride with me or that I ride with them to these practices. I can tell that some days W doesn't seem to mind and other days I can see she is irritated with it. Does this come across of persuing? I have not initiated R talks during these rides and practices but I'm sure she is wondering when the next one will be. Please advise.
Ping,
The "wise" thing is for you to understand what she has been trying to tell you about YOU. She doesn't see you as responsible and firm with the kids. She thinks SHE is the disciplinarian and you as the easy going "other child". She doesn't view your relationship with her as a "team". She feels she makes all of the adult decisions regarding the kids and that you just go with the flow. That is extremely hard on a woman to have kids to juggle and worry about, along with worrying about her husband because he can't take care of himself. (you mentioned she said you can't take care of yourself early on in this thread)
I also have to agree with her for a couple of reasons on this issue...
1) You still ALLOW her to do your laundry.
2) You handled the wearing jeans to the game instead of shorts issue wrongly with her.
Your question may be what is wrong with allowing her to do my laundry when I don't have a washer and dryer in my apartment?
The answer is NOTHING if you want her to continue to take care of you like another child. However, I think it would be wise to find another way to get your laundry done. How about taking it to the laundry mat and doing it yourself? This is what a mature person would be doing. You are only adding extra WORK on the woman you say you love so much. Do you think she LIKES doing your laundry at this point?
Regarding the jeans issue......
What would have been "wise" is to take HER side of that issue and show your son that you and your wife are the "leaders" of the team. Kids feel more secure when mom and dad are a unit.
After you realized that she was upset that he wore shorts instead of jeans, as is your nature, you wanted CONTROL of who was right or who was wrong or_________ (fill in the blank)
Now.. IF you would have wanted to make some HEADWAY with your wife and score a couple of points for yourself in the meantime you could have done something like this....
" Wife, you are right. I wasn't thinking again and I didn't realize you wanted him to wear jeans. I'm sorry. I AM going to go over to his friends house right away and take him a pair of shorts. I will do it right now."
And then done exactly that... This would have shown her that you are not another child in her eyes, but that you are going to start thinking like an adult. (who CARES if you are right or she is right about whether he wears shorts or not?) She needs to start FEELING like you take her thoughts into consideration and that you are flexible enough to admit you are wrong and that it is no big deal to admit you are wrong. AND then handling it YOURSELF instead of allowing her to handle it..
Now in answer to your question...
Make YOUR OWN arrangements to take the kids to the ballgames.
It is fine to ask her to go with you, but if she tells you she is taking them, then it is NOT WISE to ask to go with them. Just act like a mature man and make your own arrangements to get to the game.
I hope you can understand what I am telling you. I really believe she would be much more attracted to you if you started to be more pro-active in your own decison making and more "team" oriented regarding the kids. It is ok to let her know that she is right about you being too easy going with the kids and she feels she is the disciplinarian all the time. NO parent likes to feel like the disciplinarian all the time. It is better once in a while for DAD to be tough on them. You will probably be surprised that when you get tougher on them, that she will take more of a role you have been playing...
good post, gl. very good post
GD
GL, thank you for your response, I understand what you are saying. I guess I have really never looked at it like you have stated above. I have always been the one in our M that let our kids be kids as I feel that is important for them in their growing up. She has always been the one to shelter them. I guess I need to take a close look at this as this is one thing she stated a few weeks ago about one of our main issues is in the way we deal with our kids. Again, thank you.
By chance, I see you are new here, have you been through this before or are you going through any of this stuff now?
Well I had a pretty good day, went to see C this morning and S10 had ball practice tonight. Instead of sitting on the sidelines with W, I decided it was time to get back to my life as I have been helping coach for the past 3 years but this year I opted out due to the circumstances I am currently in. So instead of sitting with W and letting her see I am not myself as this has been the routine, I got back out on the field and helped with practice. It felt great and took my mind off things for those 2 hours. I realized I needed to start doing these things again today and made my mind up that when I am at the ballfields I will be out on them instead of on the sidelines, I have never been one to watch anyway, I would rather be participating, it makes time go by faster and is much funner.
Of course when W got there she saw I had my glove out and said oh, are you helping them out tonight? She basically sat in her car to watch with S7 as there were not many mothers there tonight due to a split practice with the team for tonight and tomorrow.
Anyway, all in all, I had a pretty good day and got to relieve my mind from all of what is going on with my sitch.
Excellent job Ping. That's the spirit.
Lose yourself in things you enjoy. Get back into golf. The season is just beginning and a few hours on the golf course can
do wonders for you. I too am a golfer and find it a good outlet
for stress and something to look forward to that is a positive
hobby to have.
I do forgive you though for using Ping.
Continue doing things like you did today. Lighten up. Have fun.
Enjoy life. Happiness is contagious and attractive to women.
It seems like it has been a long time since you have been a happy person. You need to understand that your wife tired of you being negative and in a bad mood much of the time. Always keep that in mind as you make changes in your life. Just go about your business and let her SEE the changes in your attitude and spirit.. It will come through loud and clear if you stay consistent. It's kind of like the U.S. Open... Par is good and pars will usually have you in the running come Sunday.
Keep making par in your relationship.
Thanks GL, so now you know where my screen name came from, I play Pings some of the time but currently playing Mizuno MP60 irons. I have always liked Pings and have a few sets just sitting around.
Yes it did feel good today, I was talking with one of the other fathers at practice that I use to play golf with before all of this happened and we are setting up a date to go and play. Some other friends called today and we are planning a trip to Myrtle Beach in June to go and play for a couple of days. I am going to move on and try my best to stay positive. The bad part of this is I can do this some weeks and then some weeks it's like a ton of bricks hit me and I don't want to do anything, hopefully helping out at practice will keep me more consistent on my goal as that is a few days a week I can be getting involved and not worrying about what is going on.
Again, thanks for your posts on my thread, you seem very knowledgable, are you also going through rough time? I feel for you if you are, I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy in life.
One other note I wanted to add to you GL, I have been an avid collector of Scotty Cameron putters and headcovers for over 2 years now, of course my W hated this becuase I spent so much time on Ebay trying to catch that perfect deal. Anyway since our S I have not bought anything to do with my collection, I have around 30 putters and maybe 150 headcovers, well just this past week I got my notification from Scotty's weblist and bought me some of the Masters headcovers along with the Masters Tshirt, I feel since I am not living with W any longer I mine as well do what I liked doing before I left. Now I also realize that if W and I work things out then I will not be spending time on the computer like I use to because she felt I shut her out by always being on the computer and not spending time with her. I can't wait to get my new headcovers in, hopefully I will get lucky and get on the specail 100 made, I have not been lucky yet but I'm due sooner or later. The special 100 made are worth close to $500 and they are sent out at random. My office in our house was nothing but golf clubs, I have probably 12 sets of irons, 5 staff bags and about 50 total putters, I strive to get the hard to find items that you can't find anymore. Ex: Copper Eye 2's new in the box, copper Anser 2's, Zing 2's and B60's. I always try to find something that will be worth good money in the long run. That is what I do with Scotty's putters also, I find the prototypes and his limited production models that will only increase in value in time. Now of course when I left our house, these are the only items I was able to carry, she kept all of the furniture in the house and all household goods.
Good job on today!!
I also play lady Mizuno's. Husband ONLY plays with Pings. He was so distraught when I went out (ON MY OWN) and bought my Mizuno clubs...... Mx-25's. Great Forged set. I wanted Maruman Lady clubs, but I thought if I dropped 4K, he'd KILL ME! I was playing Callaway X-20's and hated them. I sold em on Ebay. I love my Mizuno Driver. I did win a big Bertha driver and to save my life I can't hit the damn thing. Men love to have me on their team during captain choice wing-dings because I get to hit from the ladies tee's and I am a long, straight driver.... I pulled this thing out... and my partner said.... "give me that damn thing, I don't ever want to see you hit that thing again". I am too short for it. Every once and awhile I try and put it back in the bag....
I have a scotty cameron putter Futura Phantom and an Odyssey two ball putter. Have you seen the new white hot putter that's out? Sabertooth? I am going to look at it this weekend. I think it came out in March.
I am going to move on and try my best to stay positive. The bad part of this is I can do this some weeks and then some weeks it's like a ton of bricks hit me and I don't want to do anything,
Don't go by your "feelings". Make decisions based on logic and common sense. You CAN do it all the time. DISCIPLINE yourself.
You have to stop this negative talk and self talk. It is things like this that helped to drive your wife away. Stay focused. One shot at a time. Act happy. Be happy. Fake it if you have to. No woman wants an unhappy, negative man. Woman like upbeat, happy, confident men. Be one. Take the bull by the horns here. Show her you have had an awakening. (notice I did NOT say to TELL her or keep asking her if she has noticed your changes.. DO NOT DO THAT)
Do your own laundry. Let her ask you why you don't drop it off anymore. If she never does ask, then LET IT GO.
What does NIKE say...... "Just do it"
Enjoy your golf. Most women do not want to deprive us of our hobbies. They only have issues with it if they FEEL it has become more important than she is. At this point it will not do you any harm to focus a lot of attention to golf. It may even be to your benefit as it will take pressure off of her, which is what you have to do right now.
Don't worry. As you pull back (politely and not to be mean) you will slowly start to see her coming toward you. (a typical phenomenon in most all relationships) PATIENCE wins. Be nice to her. Say hi. Be the first to walk away. (politely) Stop doing any initiating of much of anything for awhile. Make your own decisions and come across as decisive. She has actually needed you to be the stronger one "emotionally". She has not viewed you as the "stronger" one yet. Become the stronger one. The attitude should always be... "Don't worry honey, I CAN HANDLE IT"
Then handle it with no thoughts of getting a pat on the back.
NIKE... "JUST DO IT"....
One other note I wanted to add to you GL, I have been an avid collector of Scotty Cameron putters and headcovers for over 2 years now, of course my W hated this becuase I spent so much time on Ebay trying to catch that perfect deal. Anyway since our S I have not bought anything to do with my collection, I have around 30 putters and maybe 150 headcovers, well just this past week I got my notification from Scotty's weblist and bought me some of the Masters headcovers along with the Masters Tshirt, I feel since I am not living with W any longer I mine as well do what I liked doing before I left. Now I also realize that if W and I work things out then I will not be spending time on the computer like I use to because she felt I shut her out by always being on the computer and not spending time with her. I can't wait to get my new headcovers in, hopefully I will get lucky and get on the specail 100 made, I have not been lucky yet but I'm due sooner or later. The special 100 made are worth close to $500 and they are sent out at random. My office in our house was nothing but golf clubs, I have probably 12 sets of irons, 5 staff bags and about 50 total putters, I strive to get the hard to find items that you can't find anymore. Ex: Copper Eye 2's new in the box, copper Anser 2's, Zing 2's and B60's. I always try to find something that will be worth good money in the long run. That is what I do with Scotty's putters also, I find the prototypes and his limited production models that will only increase in value in time. Now of course when I left our house, these are the only items I was able to carry, she kept all of the furniture in the house and all household goods.
Good for you and great job. My office is also quite the masterpiece of sports. (golf is one of my main passions).
When and if we can get your wife turned around, I can help you to learn how to balance your passion of golf with keeping your wife happy. Once you get how to do it, it is a piece of cake. She will actually be on the lookout FOR you in your quest for your collection. Let's not talk about that unless or until the time comes.
It is ok for you to enjoy your hobbies while she is acting like she wants out. It is actually a plus for you to pursue them. Remember to let her wonder what you are up to regarding your life. Keep your cards close to your vest. Stay happy, act happy.
Enjoy life. Look for and find the good in your life. You need to be ready for her when and if she comes back. You might as well learn right now how to get and stay happy so that it is already a disciplined habit that you have control over. At this point you aren't even ready for her to come back and you and she both know it. It's like you are thinking you are going to turn pro and you haven't even won an amateur event yet in your local club or town. First things first.
RWS, you sound like you are a good golfer. Yes I have seen the new Callaway Sabertooth, it looks to be a good putter. I can never get use to anything other than an offset putter such as an Anser 2 lookalike or a B60 and its close replica's. Something about a mallet style putter does not fit my style on the greens, I also change putters quite often, makes me feel like I will sink more putts although that is all just in my head. LOL.
Thanks GL, you have a way of putting things that make much more sense than I can think of them. I like your analogy you put forth.
W must really hold me hostage for our kids, this weekend I had them and my S7 said he wanted to go to Disney World this year, I sent an email to W of when they would start back school at the end of the summer as I want to plan a trip with the kids. She replied with when they would be starting back, then I told her what I was planning. Her comments were, "do you think you can keep up with both of them there, it is a busy place, also it bothers me that after I told you not to let them walk to there friends house in the neighborhood you still let them." I am having a tough time with this, there friend lives less than a 5 minute walk. Do I just say the heck with it or honor what she is wanting. I know your going to tell me to honor what she is saying but I have to tell you I just don't believe in this. Go ahead, let me have it.
Also, we have an anniversary coming up on Friday, it's actually the anniversary of when we first started dating 22 years ago, I have always treated this like a second anniversary date for us. Do I send flowers or anything like that? I am not sure of what the right approach would be on this issue, part of me wants to send flowers and another part of me just says let it go. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
Hi Ping,
For the anniversary I always suggest that you have a card or something "unromantic" on hand in case your W acknowledges the occasion but do not give it to her unless she gives you something.
As for the kids and the walking 5 minutes.. I know that I am also an overprotective parent so I wouldn't like that either. Actually, and not to be over the top or anything, but a couple of years ago in the metropolis I live in there was a young girl by the name of Holly Jones that walked her friend home from her house and was abducted on her short 3-5 minute walk back home.. so you can never be too cautious when it comes to that kind of thing. Just my $0.02.
I think it was your sitch (although I have a few that I try to keep up on) where right from the beginning of your posting your W had been making comments about all of you going to Disney World as a family even though you and she wouldn't be together.. Am I right that this was your case? It sounds to me like she is paving the way to have herself invited and hopefully paid for by commenting that you can't handle both children on your own. I would not respond to her at all with regards to her comments on Disney World.
W2G
Well, considering I still use my father's bull's eye putter- I totally understand. I have about 5 that I switch between. I even have the ole "belly" putter.... but being on 5.4.. it's more like a chin for me! We've cut it down about as much as we can.
Do I just say the heck with it or honor what she is wanting. I know your going to tell me to honor what she is saying but I have to tell you I just don't believe in this. Go ahead, let me have it.
I think you have to choose your battles and slay your own beasts, and in this case you'll just have to ask yourself if this is a deal breaker for you. Are you so committed to this belief that you will not budge, and will be okay with divorcing based on this alone (obviously there is more than just this going on, but if you're so adamant about having it your way regarding this sitch, then it warrants the question I'm asking)?
You've said you're a controlling person and were one in the M -- just wanted to remind you of that so you can reflect on this situation with that in mind. On the flip side of that coin, it's okay not to compromise on things that you have very strong beliefs in and that will cause you to sacrifice who you are and what you are about at your very core. Is this one of those beliefs?
GD
ping, my S is 11 and only this year have I felt comfortable enough to have him walk to school on his own. I can sympathize with your W on this one. Is it really worth creating an issue with your W when she's thinking about the kids' safety? She's being cautious not necessarily overprotective. Maybe in a few months, next school year she may feel more comfortable with the kids walking on their own to school/friend's place.
As far as the anniversary, since you are separated, definitely not flowers. Like W2G suggested, a card that's not necessarily romantic. Only give it to her if she acknowledges the anniversary first. Our wedding anniversary occurred during our S and neither one of us brought it up.
Ping,
I'm suggesting you let the walking battle go. That's one your not going to win. Mother's have it in their mind from the get go that their sons, when they reach certain ages are allowed to do certain things. In her mind she has set an age when they will be allowed to walk to school on their own and do other things.
I know it's hard and you may not think it's the right thing to do but I would unite with her on this. I would show her that I understood and am willing to be a team with her and support the decision to not let them walk from school..etc..
I told you in an earlier post..mother's and their sons. Is this such a big problem that you may be willing to risk a backslide? I personally think you have been doing pretty good in your sitch.
In my sitch that's been a positive for me. My D2, when she acts up, even though my W and I are having problems we are united in what we are trying to teach our daughter and we support each other when dealing with our D.
This is a great opportunity for you to take advantage of the things I explained to you a few days ago about showing your wife that you understand her feelings and to show her "team" and spirit and unity as a couple. Obviously she worries about something happening to the kids walking alone. Allow her to
worry. It is ok if she is worried. It is highly important that you show her that you not only understand her feelings, but assure her that her feelings are safe with you. I know you want to argue it is only a 5 minute walk, but arguing your point is what got you here. I would try another approach. HERS.
I think you would be very wise to tell her something like this...
"Mrs. Ping, you are right (shows agreement with her feelings)
you did tell me not to let them walk to their friends house and I apologize. I won't let it happen again".. THAT is all you say. Then drop it. Don't bring it up again. Then YOU tell the kids what you and their mom has decided. It isn't up for negotiation with the kids.
Stand firm on this WITH her. The interesting thing is that once you stand on her side of this issue, you may start to see her change her tune on that issue. Instead of the kids driving a wedge between you, you have now shown a united front to them. (which kids respect years later)
Your other option is to argue your thoughts on the issue and keep your wife in the state of mind that got her to this point.
Remember.. She FEELS like the only parent on discipline with the kids. Get on your wife and childhood sweethearts side of these small issues. It is called being a supportive husband. She will give you an opening down the road on this very issue after the kids start nagging HER to let them walk. She will then want to take on the role of the "nice" parent for awhile. When she does that, then you can "give the kids YOUR permission to walk" as a UNITED COUPLE...
As far as Disney World goes......
"Mrs. Ping... Yes I agree Disney World is a busy place and the kids may be a handful. I would love to take them, but I admit that I have been lax on the discipline side with them and ALLOWED you to be the one who ALWAYS (just say always even if it isn't actually "always") does while I haven't. I would love to take them and promise to watch them like a hawk. However if you don't feel comfortable with me taking them, then I do understand and will find something else for me to do with them. (decisive and flexible person that you are LOL) Then end the email pleasantly and don't bring it up again. If she says no, then if it was ME, I wouldn't go. Again, you can take this into an argument if you wish, but I don't believe that has gotten you much progress. She will be expecting you to argue and whine and complain to get your way. Surprise her. You may again find that she will soften her stance with this approach. Maybe she won't. Time will tell, but I have seen it happen quite often.
Anniversary card? YES. Mushy... NO... (Run the card you get her on here if you have the guts and I can give you an idea if you are heading down the "pressure or pleading" path with it.)
I would put a little note in it that says something like this..
Just to let you know, I have heard you and what you have been trying to tell me for a long time. I am very sorry for my failures as a husband and father to such a giving, thoughtful woman.
Signed... Ping
Then don't mention it again and go golfing or find another club to buy and hold tight..... Let her chew on that for awhile Ping... LOL...
Ping,
I wanted to add that if you tell the kids they can't walk to their friends house, that you DO NOT tell them anything such as.... "Your mom doesn't.. or your mom won't... or your mom..
DO NOT GO THAT ROUTE. Use I have decided or We have decided or Your mom and I have decided... You gave a very telling clue to your situation when you told us that the kids "whisper in your ear" things they would like to say to their mother when she gets mad. BIG NO NO... You should be telling the kids don't talk about your mother like that, she loves you.. or something like that. That is a very weak position to take for you and believe me.. SHE SEES it and notices that you and the kids do that behind her back. Not good..
Also.. I know you would like to rush ahead here, but remember that right now you need to focus on the basics..
Grip, stance, alignment..
Which means in relationship terms... Learn to act and be happy and enjoy life, keep your grip light (no pressure or relationship talks) pursue your own interests and enjoy them and be emotionally strong around your wife.
When you start to go wrong.. As in golf.. Go back to the basics..
Grip, stance and alignment... Too much information to digest sometimes will confuse you, just as it does when trying to work on your golf swing. One thing at a time works much better until it becomes a habit you don't have to think about....
Thanks GD, I do have a strong belief in this but I am going to back off of what I think and take advice from you and others here.
Hi W2G, that was not me about Disney World, I remember reading that thread also but not me. Thanks for your input on the kids, I am going to let this rest and honor her wishes.
Thanks Addie, I believe I am just going to give her a non romantic card and do as GL has suggested. Thanks for your input on the kids also, I see that I am overreacting on this and will let it go.
Thanks Mike, I am going to let it go and support W's decision on this. I hope things are getting better in your Sitch. I will check yours out later.
Thanks GL, I am taking your advice on these matters. In fact I started this tonight. W emailed me today to tell me S10 made all A's on his report card and S7 had all S's on his. I emailed her back and told her of course they did, they have W's brains. She emailed back saying they have your brains, don't fool yourself.
I always carry sunflower seeds to baseball practice/games, the boys know they come from dad as I am the one that gives them to them. I went and bought them 2 packs each and told them in front of her, myself and your mother thought we would give you two packs each tonight since you both did so good on your report cards. She didn't say anything, just looked at me.
On another note, S10 was not suppose to have tournament next weekend but coach told us tonight they would probably play. W told me she had made plans with MIL to go to the beach next weekend and she would just have to cancel that. I told her not to worry about them, it's my weekend to have them and I will make sure they get to their tournaments and practices and if I needed another parent to help with one of them, "being if they have tournament and practice at the same time in different places then I would make those arrangements." Told her she needed to go to the beach and have fun with her mother. She stated I doubt we would have fun, I said of course you would, you enjoy being with your mother and you need some time alone. Now this is a complete 180 for me because I was the type of H that didn't like her going away for the weekend without us as a family. When we first started talking about this she was talking like she would cancel but by the end of the conversations, she seems willing to go and told me who I could ask to help out if needed. All in all we had a good night at the ball fields other than sons team didn't show up for their game. I was very upbeat and talkative to all parents, something I normally do not do either, I usually stick to talking to 1 or 2 people and thats it. I feel good about tonight.
On another note, W was suppose to cut my hair tonight, actually I do most of it as I cut my hair with shears and she only touches up the back where I can't get to. Her mother is a beautician "sp" and we have always cut my hair. Well I went last night and someone else do it because I didn't want to bother my W with it and show her that I am needy. I know she noticed but she didn't say a word about it. I need to show her that I am dependant upon myself and not rely on her so much.
I like what you had to say about what to put in a card. Question for you though, do I give her an anniversary card or just a friendly card. I need to pick this up tomorrow and I will leave it on her car tomorrow night in the garage after S7's ballgame, I will make a point to go to her house afte the game, going to get golf balls or something that way I will have a reason to go there and leave this for her. I don't expect anything from her as I didn't get anything from Valentines. Thanks again for your input. I really appreciate it.
Hi Ping, been reading up on your stitch. This last one sounded good 180's. Keep up the good work and no depending on her for things like cutting your hair, etc. That was a good move.
As far as an anniversary card.....that is a very sticky situation. I would find something very, very casual....which is kind of hard to do without the mushy stuff, or being "too humorous", but like another one suggested, keep in on hand, just in case she has something.
I can see you growing, so don't give up.
Sandi
I agree with Sandi on this. Please don't set yourself up for expecting anything. Doing so, only brings you down. Keep doing what you are doing. Keep up the 180's and keep supporting your children the way you are. They are what's important! If she does something- consider it a nice jesture and don't make a big to do over it. Keep everything light.
Will catch up with you after my return. I will be thinking about you and keeping positive thoughts!
Thanks GL, I am taking your advice on these matters. In fact I started this tonight. W emailed me today to tell me S10 made all A's on his report card and S7 had all S's on his. I emailed her back and told her of course they did, they have W's brains. She emailed back saying they have your brains, don't fool yourself.
This is good. I like the way you have "lightened" up. Relax. Have fun with her. Banter. Make fun of yourself. Good job.
Remember. This is only a par. One shot at a time. Let her keep coming to you. Slow is good.
I always carry sunflower seeds to baseball practice/games, the boys know they come from dad as I am the one that gives them to them. I went and bought them 2 packs each and told them in front of her, myself and your mother thought we would give you two packs each tonight since you both did so good on your report cards. She didn't say anything, just looked at me.
Ok. Pick it up. I'll give you that putt. Remember this very same thing goes for discipline with the children. For the time being, back her ideas and decisions on the children. Trust me. She noticed and banked it. Don't bring it up again. Don't go overboard to let her hear you say those things. Say them when she is NOT around the kids also. Make it a habit. Drive for show, putt for dough....
On another note, S10 was not suppose to have tournament next weekend but coach told us tonight they would probably play. W told me she had made plans with MIL to go to the beach next weekend and she would just have to cancel that. I told her not to worry about them, it's my weekend to have them and I will make sure they get to their tournaments and practices and if I needed another parent to help with one of them, "being if they have tournament and practice at the same time in different places then I would make those arrangements." Told her she needed to go to the beach and have fun with her mother. She stated I doubt we would have fun, I said of course you would, you enjoy being with your mother and you need some time alone. Now this is a complete 180 for me because I was the type of H that didn't like her going away for the weekend without us as a family. When we first started talking about this she was talking like she would cancel but by the end of the conversations, she seems willing to go and told me who I could ask to help out if needed. All in all we had a good night at the ball fields other than sons team didn't show up for their game. I was very upbeat and talkative to all parents, something I normally do not do either, I usually stick to talking to 1 or 2 people and thats it. I feel good about tonight.
BINGO.. THAT is how a MATURE man acts and behaves. "I will handle it honey. Don't worry".. PERFECT.... Great job, great attitude. Just keep doing these types of things. She has needed a helpmate for a long time. Someone to pick up the slack and give her a break from making all the decisions and from feeling all the responsibility. Take advantage of this opportunity. If she is ok with this, then YOU make all the arrangements. THINK about your decisions before you make them. Try to think like she would. If she gives you some unsolicited advice on something, then, stop, and tell her.. "good idea. I should have thought of that"....
Do your own laundry... (thought I forgot, didn't you?)
You will start to become much more attractive to her as she slowly sees you taking some charge of your own life and observing how you are now handling the kids. REMEMBER.. Don't bring this stuff up to her. Don't ask her if she notices. Don't talk about the relationship... One shot at a time. She WILL bring up a talk at some point. We have to get you ready for that time. You are not there yet.
On another note, W was suppose to cut my hair tonight, actually I do most of it as I cut my hair with shears and she only touches up the back where I can't get to. Her mother is a beautician "sp" and we have always cut my hair. Well I went last night and someone else do it because I didn't want to bother my W with it and show her that I am needy. I know she noticed but she didn't say a word about it. I need to show her that I am dependant upon myself and not rely on her so much.
You have learned quickly. This type of thing was exactly what I was talking about. If she asks you why you cut your own hair, or why you are doing your own laundry, the nicely tell her something like... " I was doing some thinking Mrs Ping, and it hit me that I wasn't pulling my own weight for a long time in quite a few areas. You have enough on your plate and certainly don't need me giving you more things to do." Then drop it. Don't bring it up again. (Have you noticed that I keep telling you not to bring things up again?) It is very important you don't. Let HER bring it up. If she does.. Then you take the blame on what an idiot you have been, tell her she was right, and drop it and move on and keep acting happy and mature.
I like what you had to say about what to put in a card. Question for you though, do I give her an anniversary card or just a friendly card. I need to pick this up tomorrow and I will leave it on her car tomorrow night in the garage after S7's ballgame, I will make a point to go to her house afte the game, going to get golf balls or something that way I will have a reason to go there and leave this for her. I don't expect anything from her as I didn't get anything from Valentines. Thanks again for your input. I really appreciate it.
Risk versus reward shot here...... Pressure of any kind almost always backfires. So we know that you can't pressure her in any way with a card if it is mushy or if she thinks you are getting false hope. However...... It can still be done without pressure if you do it correctly. Your idea of just leaving the card so that she can read it without you around is perfect. Great idea.
That should take care of any pressure. This is where you can show your maturity again by the card you pick out. She is NOT ready for a you trying to drive a par 4 yet. (romance) She will slowly let you know if and when she is ready. You have to let her come to that totally on her own. No pressure.
Get her a card that is nice and has just a few words on it that basically says Happy Anniversary. Short and sweet. The IMPORTANT thing is the wording that I advised you to write in the card. That is what will keep the pressure off. As long as you leave the card and not give it to her personally, and as long as you don't bring it up again to her or ask her if she read it or whatever... Then it shouldn't hurt you. It will come across as the "silent strong type" in her emotions if done correctly....
You ARE on the correct path now. Remember. I still have not ruled out another man. Don't bury your head in the sand here. Keep observant. Stay steady with your emotions around her.
Grip, stance, alignment...
EXCELLENT job... You have made the cut. We still have a lot of golf to play...
Thanks GL, I am taking your advice on these matters. In fact I started this tonight. W emailed me today to tell me S10 made all A's on his report card and S7 had all S's on his. I emailed her back and told her of course they did, they have W's brains. She emailed back saying they have your brains, don't fool yourself.
This is good. I like the way you have "lightened" up. Relax. Have fun with her. Banter. Make fun of yourself. Good job.
Remember. This is only a par. One shot at a time. Let her keep coming to you. Slow is good.
I always carry sunflower seeds to baseball practice/games, the boys know they come from dad as I am the one that gives them to them. I went and bought them 2 packs each and told them in front of her, myself and your mother thought we would give you two packs each tonight since you both did so good on your report cards. She didn't say anything, just looked at me.
Ok. Pick it up. I'll give you that putt. Remember this very same thing goes for discipline with the children. For the time being, back her ideas and decisions on the children. Trust me. She noticed and banked it. Don't bring it up again. Don't go overboard to let her hear you say those things. Say them when she is NOT around the kids also. Make it a habit. Drive for show, putt for dough....
On another note, S10 was not suppose to have tournament next weekend but coach told us tonight they would probably play. W told me she had made plans with MIL to go to the beach next weekend and she would just have to cancel that. I told her not to worry about them, it's my weekend to have them and I will make sure they get to their tournaments and practices and if I needed another parent to help with one of them, "being if they have tournament and practice at the same time in different places then I would make those arrangements." Told her she needed to go to the beach and have fun with her mother. She stated I doubt we would have fun, I said of course you would, you enjoy being with your mother and you need some time alone. Now this is a complete 180 for me because I was the type of H that didn't like her going away for the weekend without us as a family. When we first started talking about this she was talking like she would cancel but by the end of the conversations, she seems willing to go and told me who I could ask to help out if needed. All in all we had a good night at the ball fields other than sons team didn't show up for their game. I was very upbeat and talkative to all parents, something I normally do not do either, I usually stick to talking to 1 or 2 people and thats it. I feel good about tonight.
BINGO.. THAT is how a MATURE man acts and behaves. "I will handle it honey. Don't worry".. PERFECT.... Great job, great attitude. Just keep doing these types of things. She has needed a helpmate for a long time. Someone to pick up the slack and give her a break from making all the decisions and from feeling all the responsibility. Take advantage of this opportunity. If she is ok with this, then YOU make all the arrangements. THINK about your decisions before you make them. Try to think like she would. If she gives you some unsolicited advice on something, then, stop, and tell her.. "good idea. I should have thought of that"....
Do your own laundry... (thought I forgot, didn't you?)
You will start to become much more attractive to her as she slowly sees you taking some charge of your own life and observing how you are now handling the kids. REMEMBER.. Don't bring this stuff up to her. Don't ask her if she notices. Don't talk about the relationship... One shot at a time. She WILL bring up a talk at some point. We have to get you ready for that time. You are not there yet.
On another note, W was suppose to cut my hair tonight, actually I do most of it as I cut my hair with shears and she only touches up the back where I can't get to. Her mother is a beautician "sp" and we have always cut my hair. Well I went last night and someone else do it because I didn't want to bother my W with it and show her that I am needy. I know she noticed but she didn't say a word about it. I need to show her that I am dependant upon myself and not rely on her so much.
You have learned quickly. This type of thing was exactly what I was talking about. If she asks you why you cut your own hair, or why you are doing your own laundry, the nicely tell her something like... " I was doing some thinking Mrs Ping, and it hit me that I wasn't pulling my own weight for a long time in quite a few areas. You have enough on your plate and certainly don't need me giving you more things to do." Then drop it. Don't bring it up again. (Have you noticed that I keep telling you not to bring things up again?) It is very important you don't. Let HER bring it up. If she does.. Then you take the blame on what an idiot you have been, tell her she was right, and drop it and move on and keep acting happy and mature.
I like what you had to say about what to put in a card. Question for you though, do I give her an anniversary card or just a friendly card. I need to pick this up tomorrow and I will leave it on her car tomorrow night in the garage after S7's ballgame, I will make a point to go to her house afte the game, going to get golf balls or something that way I will have a reason to go there and leave this for her. I don't expect anything from her as I didn't get anything from Valentines. Thanks again for your input. I really appreciate it.
Risk versus reward shot here...... Pressure of any kind almost always backfires. So we know that you can't pressure her in any way with a card if it is mushy or if she thinks you are getting false hope. However...... It can still be done without pressure if you do it correctly. Your idea of just leaving the card so that she can read it without you around is perfect. Great idea.
That should take care of any pressure. This is where you can show your maturity again by the card you pick out. She is NOT ready for a you trying to drive a par 4 yet. (romance) She will slowly let you know if and when she is ready. You have to let her come to that totally on her own. No pressure.
Get her a card that is nice and has just a few words on it that basically says Happy Anniversary. Short and sweet. The IMPORTANT thing is the wording that I advised you to write in the card. That is what will keep the pressure off. As long as you leave the card and not give it to her personally, and as long as you don't bring it up again to her or ask her if she read it or whatever... Then it shouldn't hurt you. It will come across as the "silent strong type" in her emotions if done correctly....
You ARE on the correct path now. Remember. I still have not ruled out another man. Don't bury your head in the sand here. Keep observant. Stay steady with your emotions around her.
Grip, stance, alignment...
EXCELLENT job... You have made the cut. We still have a lot of golf to play...
Ping,
You're a lucky man. GL is giving you great advice.
Stay with the program and don't take a step back. I'm praying for you brother.
GL-like the golf analogies.
Thanks M...
It's a golfer thing... Golfers are a different breed......
What is so fun about hitting a little white ball around? LOL...
Keep following your own personal interests and hobbies Ping.
That is extremely important to getting her back... Women like men
who seem to be wanting to do something with their life. The key is balancing your hobbies and interests with having a wife and family. We will worry about that when we get to that hole. Right now we are concerned about the shot at hand...
Thanks M...
It's a golfer thing... Golfers are a different breed......
What is so fun about hitting a little white ball around? LOL...
Keep following your own personal interests and hobbies Ping.
That is extremely important to getting her back... Women like men
who seem to be wanting to do something with their life. The key is balancing your hobbies and interests with having a wife and family. We will worry about that when we get to that hole. Right now we are concerned about the shot at hand...
Yes we are..I play too.
I have been keeping up with Ping for a while. We both arrived here about the same time.
I guess I offer more support for him than anything else. I don't have much good advice to offer.
I am glad you found him. I can see that you are really helping him and since I'm following his thread it is helping me too.
Glad to hear you are observing and getting help.
The more a man does the basics the better he gets and the more results he sees.
Ping will begin to see that he really has been acting unhappy for awhile and that his wife just happened to be the vehicle that has shown him this. He needs to work on being happy. This HAS to come first. That is why it is important for him to keep some balance in his life as he goes through this difficult time.
I would like to see him continue on the path he started yesterday with his wife. It is also good for him, and good for her to see him continue to pursue his own loves and interests. This can be golf, collecting putters, fishing, building models, or whatever else that he really loves to do. The issue that his wife has is not GOLF. It is not collecting PUTTERS. It was that she felt that it was an obsession and MORE IMPORTANT than her. He did make it look that way. She will allow him to enjoy his hobbies after she "FEELS" that her feelings and thoughts and wants and needs are MORE IMPORTANT than golf or whatever. Most women really don't care if their man has other interests and hobbies, and as a matter of fact respect a man more when he does. Howver, a woman does have a problem with a man who ignores her and doesn't show interest in what SHE loves and likes.(fake it if you have to) What is important to her should be important to Ping.
Don't worry. She will notice. Ping needs to keep golfing and enjoying it, but handle golf EXACTLY like he did when the going to the beach conversation came up with his wife.... He should be as flexble as she was. Did you notice that she said SHE would not go to the beach?
She quickly was willing to change HER plans and fun.
This is how he should react if he has a golf outing planned and something comes up with the family....
"Mrs. Ping, I going to call off my golf outing so that we can____________ (fill in the blank here).....
AND he should do it HAPPILY and WILLINGLY for HER... He can golf another time...
I would bet that she would do the same thing he did when she wanted to go to the beach... "that's all right Mr. Ping, you go ahead and golf and I will take care of the kids"..
TEAM... She wants to be a TEAM.. She wants to be ONE....
That is how a team operates. She secretly craves Ping to take some more control of the discipline and decision making, while still taking her feelings into account ALWAYS. The woman usually responds if he just does it like it is no big deal and isn't looking for approval or a pat on the back. These are things he should have been doing all along. She has. He said she is a giving person by nature. It is time he took the bull by the horns here and gotten involved in this stuff with her and show their kids that mom and dad are a team.
Grip, stance and alignment...
love this thread and some great responses GL.
Come help me and my thread ????
Arthur,
Thanks. I would like to help you if I could. I have read up on your situation. Your advice would be somewhat different than Ping's advice, but in some respects they would be the same...
I'm not sure you would be able to hear, handle or take my advice on your situation because I think you would be scared it may backfire. Your wife IS having an affair. That is clear. You NEED to snoop until you get the facts. A person can't make wise decisons without all the facts. Once you get the facts, then the snooping should stop. Until then, get all the facts you can so that YOU can make an intelligent decision based on those facts..
From what I see with your situation, I would encourage a different approach from Ping. My belief is that I don't think a man is wise to let his wife have her cake while he thinks he is fighing to get her back. That is the position I will take if you want me to help you.
Let me know what happens. First thing is you need to do the "snooping" to find out what really is going on. I am sure she is interested in another guy. YOU need to be sure. DO NOT ask her. She will lie and blame you.
In the meantime...
Stance, grip and alignment.
Work on being happy. Pursue your own interests and hobbies.
Start there and let me know what you find out. I think you already know. You have to be able to be honest with yourself. I know it is a shock to think the woman you love has another man, but the sooner you admit it is true, the faster and better you can deal with what you have to do to save the relationship...
Today was a pretty good day. Picked kids up from school and got there homework done before S7 had baseball game. My W met us at the park, I could tell she acted a little distant today, not sure why but I may have some type of idea. W came by my house to bring S7's baseball uniform as she was going to grocery store and meeting us at the park. Up until now, I have been using her vaccum clean as I have not bought one yet, well I bought one yesterday and had the box sitting in the living room where she came into to see the boys as they were watching tv. She didn't mention this to me but I have to wonder if this is why she acted the way she did. I am trying my best to seperate and not depend on her, things I have been doing up until this week I have worked hard to change, ex: vaccuum cleaner, hair cut, not asking for rides to ballpark, telling her I will take care of next weekend with her being gone and being more active at the park with others and in a happier mood.
We did have some good interaction tonight at the field, S7 is just funny to watch because he can't stand still and he is just a rocking back and forth to keep himself busy. We had a few laughs over this.
I also asked another mother who's sons play on both of my sons teams if she would be willing to give me a hand next weekend if I needed her since W will be out of town. I'm sure W thought I would retract from this but the other mother said she would help and my W got involved and told her it would be a huge help for us.
While I was typing this W called and left a message "my phone didn't ring for some reason" to call her, we have a problem. Well it turns out my S7 left his book here today and was afraid he would get in trouble tomorrow, I told her I would run it right over, she just hung up, again, I believe she is in one of those moods today. I ran book over and she acted much better, even told me to have a good night in a way that was not just saying that because it was the right thing to do. She may have already read the card I left her by this time, I don't know. I didn't mention it nor will I. She didn't either so we will let it be.
Well that is my day for interaction with W. To sum it up, she was not in a jolly mood but we still had laughs and she told me to have a good night. I will not see her tomorrow, but will on Saturday and Sunday as S10 has games this weekend.
I really appreciate everyone's advice on my thread, you are really helping me out.
GL, I took your advice on the anniversary card and only put in it what you told me I should. Didn't sign it with ILY, only my name. Thank you for all of your insight on this, you really know your stuff, please stick around my thread and keep pointing me what I need to be doing. Sometimes I am a slow learner but once I catch on I run with the flow. Just like getting on a birdie run on the course.
Today was a pretty good day. Picked kids up from school and got there homework done before S7 had baseball game. My W met us at the park, I could tell she acted a little distant today, not sure why but I may have some type of idea. W came by my house to bring S7's baseball uniform as she was going to grocery store and meeting us at the park. Up until now, I have been using her vaccum clean as I have not bought one yet, well I bought one yesterday and had the box sitting in the living room where she came into to see the boys as they were watching tv. She didn't mention this to me but I have to wonder if this is why she acted the way she did. I am trying my best to seperate and not depend on her, things I have been doing up until this week I have worked hard to change, ex: vaccuum cleaner, hair cut, not asking for rides to ballpark, telling her I will take care of next weekend with her being gone and being more active at the park with others and in a happier mood.
We did have some good interaction tonight at the field, S7 is just funny to watch because he can't stand still and he is just a rocking back and forth to keep himself busy. We had a few laughs over this.
I also asked another mother who's sons play on both of my sons teams if she would be willing to give me a hand next weekend if I needed her since W will be out of town. I'm sure W thought I would retract from this but the other mother said she would help and my W got involved and told her it would be a huge help for us.
While I was typing this W called and left a message "my phone didn't ring for some reason" to call her, we have a problem. Well it turns out my S7 left his book here today and was afraid he would get in trouble tomorrow, I told her I would run it right over, she just hung up, again, I believe she is in one of those moods today. I ran book over and she acted much better, even told me to have a good night in a way that was not just saying that because it was the right thing to do. She may have already read the card I left her by this time, I don't know. I didn't mention it nor will I. She didn't either so we will let it be.
Well that is my day for interaction with W. To sum it up, she was not in a jolly mood but we still had laughs and she told me to have a good night. I will not see her tomorrow, but will on Saturday and Sunday as S10 has games this weekend.
I really appreciate everyone's advice on my thread, you are really helping me out.
GL, I took your advice on the anniversary card and only put in it what you told me I should. Didn't sign it with ILY, only my name. Thank you for all of your insight on this, you really know your stuff, please stick around my thread and keep pointing me what I need to be doing. Sometimes I am a slow learner but once I catch on I run with the flow. Just like getting on a birdie run on the course.
Good deal Ping. The mood she is in may mean that she read the card and she now has some doubt in her mind?? She may be slightly miffed because you are putting doubt in her mind because of the changes you are making.
Your doing good man.
GL coming out of nowhere-to your thread--that's a gift. Use this gift wisely. He is giving you great advice. Stick to your plan.
Ping,
Good thinking on the vacuum cleaner, good thinking on asking one of the other moms to help you. Mrs. Ping seems to worry about the kids quite a bit. What you did looked liked it was comforting to her. She will probably worry about the kids anyway, while she is at the beach, but this is fairly typical of mothers. Don't take it personally, but make sure you error on the side of over protection next weekend and not on the other side. The other mom may report back to your wife if they get a chance to talk, so beware that you are being watched.
Also keep in mind that you allow your wife to have "moods."
It may have something to do with you, or maybe it doesn't. Rest assured if you are going to be with ANY woman, you better be prepared for her having "moods." Just ask about any man on the planet and they will tell you that the woman in their life has moods, and can change from one minute to the next, let alone one day to the next. This is again an opportunity to show that YOU are the "stronger" one emotionally. YOU STAY EMOTIONALLY consist ent and strong. She needs this from you. It is OK to say to her,"is something bothering you Mrs. Ping?". HOWEVER, you need to say it and approach this in a manner that she senses that you are asking because you NOTICE and are in tune with her as a team, and not in a way that displays any type of weakness on your part.
She may want to vent about her day. She may have a lot on her mind about work. Don't read her mind and don't try to read her mind when she is in one of those moods. Just ask her if everything is ok or is there something wrong Mrs. Ping and let her answer you. (You are the wise and emotionally strong husband)
If she says to you ...."no, why do you ask?"... You say something
like... "I thought you seemed like something was bothering you."
Then LET HER RESPOND.... She may say..."no, nothing is wrong"..
Ping: "Oh, ok"...; Then POLITELY change the subject. Don't pester her about it, don't nag her, don't act hurt,........
Just go on to the next shot. One shot at a time. The last shot is over and a good golfer can't be great if he is worrying about the last shot, when he already has another shot in front of him.
You ARE the strong one emotionally. Women LIKE emotionally strong men. A man who has the attitude of..." don't worry honey, I WILL handle it. I am a big boy."... It's your responsibility if you love her to take off some of the everyday worry from her by taking on this worry for her by knowing what things to do that help her out....
Good job..
One thing you could have done better to put in your memory bank...
YOU make sure the kids have all their books, clothes, toys, or whatever else they need when they leave your place. Take charge here and show your boys how to be responsible for themselves. You need a game plan here. You may have to start out with them by doing the old... " Boy 1, do you have all your books you brought, do you have your mit, do you have your coat with you? ETC... Get organized and be observant of what they have when they come and what they have when they leave. This could have been the reason that she was upset. She is AGAIN having to be the one who makes sure they have all their things and of course they came home and "forgot" something AGAIN. and DAD didn't notice..... (this irritates an organized person when they are with someone who can't keep track or loses things constantly)
What if your caddy told you he forgot your driver and you were just on the 1st tee and it was a par 5?
Get my drift?
Overall.. You are moving up the leader board...
Keep it up.
Grip, stance, alignment... (happy, upbeat, mature)
Life is good.... "I can handle it honey".....
I hear you loud and clear GL, she very well could have been mad about me not having the book in his bookbag. I will learn from this mistake.
No contact with W today, I will see her tomorrow at sons game, I have to pick S10 up from her house at 9:00 in the morning as she will carry S7 to his practice and then meet us at the other ballfield later as S10 has two games tomorrow.
I have to say that I feel more at ease with myself than I have during this whole process. I really don't mind that I didn't have any contact with W today. I don't know if this means that I am detaching or that I am seeing that I really can do things without relying on someone else, don't get me wrong, I am doing all I can do to save our R but things seem to be going better now. I believe it is because of what direction you have me led in.
One thing I would like some input on, my W thought I was not happy with her, the kids and everything around our family. With me being happy now, will this put in her mind that she will think that what she was telling me was right and that I am better off without them in my everyday life. I was thinking about this today. I know I have to be a better person and show her the person I use to be at one point in time but I also don't want to run her further away. What do you think? I am putting too much thinking into this?
Ping,
I think that your wife is seeing what she really wants. I think she wants a happy man. I think she will find that attractive. I think, if she thinks that you have been unhappy and she has been doing all the work and you are now showing her that your happy and that doing things with/for your kids and her then I think that's going to make her see you in a very good light.
Your like me, we think to damn much, we are too analytical..As GL would say...."we are not swinging freely, we are clouding our minds with too many thoughts instead of just swinging the club"
I have analyzed, worried and about drove the guy in my office halfway crazy trying to figure out what my W is thinking and doing..she has sent me so many mixed signals that I'm half crazy.
Your doing good brother. I am so proud of you..You keep up what your doing and don't backslide.
Ping, Thanks for stopping by and checking on me! That was nice of you
and always appreciated! My coaching session went well. I am going to continue to lay low, and see where that takes me. She said if i didn't hear from him in a few more weeks, perhaps I should call him at that point, like on a friday night after work, and say hey would you want to grab a beer after work, if he says no, I can say that is ok, I'm still going to go. And leave it at that. No more, no less....just friends with no strings attatched.
As for your sitch, I think women in general, or at least in my case, I really started to second guess my decisions when I started hearing my H was moving on. When he stopped calling/texting all the time and I time to really think and start to wonder what he was up to, and then the first time I saw him, and I seen that he was happy without me...WOW what an eye opening day. It's hard to have reality smack you in the face, and man does it sting for a while. So IMHO, I think her seeing you as a happier man, can do nothing but help your sitch!
Hope you have a good weekend. Enjoy your S's ballgame
christa
One thing I would like some input on, my W thought I was not happy with her, the kids and everything around our family. With me being happy now, will this put in her mind that she will think that what she was telling me was right and that I am better off without them in my everyday life. I was thinking about this today. I know I have to be a better person and show her the person I use to be at one point in time but I also don't want to run her further away. What do you think? I am putting too much thinking into this?
She WAS right. You were "acting" unhappy. I am sure you were not always unhappy, but we have to understand that she "viewed" you as unhappy from her eyes.
Secondly, you are never going to be happy every moment of every day for the rest of your life. You are going to have some setbacks. If your wife doesn't come back to you, then don't you want to be a happy person in the future for YOURSELF? I hope that answer is yes. What I am leading you to do is as much for you as it is for her. Let's not focus on your opponent so much. Play your game. Why do you think Tiger intimidates so many that he plays against. They focus too much on him and not on playing their own game. That is why Jack Niclaus was so good. He let others beat themselves and he just stuck to his game plan and used excellent course management.
Just stick to the game plan here for now. We can change the game plan to fit the situation as things progress. Right now you are on the right track. Keep focus on the things you have done this week. You are in the process of earning her respect back. Keep it up. She is secretly going back and forth in her mind about this. "Should I?, Shouldn't I, We have been together a long time, he is my high school sweethear, he is trying, but I don't FEEL (notice the word FEEL here) like I am "in" love with him."
We need to help her change her feelings. The way we can help her to change her feelings is to get her to start making different self talk.
Ping, she WILL bring up a talk of some kind about the relationship down the road here. I am preparing you for that talk because it will be crucial what you say when she brings up a talk. It IS going to happen. It is much more effective when THEY bring it up because it was their idea. You have to wait this out until that time. When she does we want you to be prepared with your "little speech" to her. We want it to be short, and to the point. It will have to show some confidence and some humbleness without appearing needy.
You told her in your card that you are humbled and sorry in a wonderful way. Let her digest that for a while. Don't bring it up. I assure you it is having an impact. Doing your laundry will have an impact, taking more charge of the kids will have an impact. "I will handle it honey attitude" will have an impact.
The key is for you to do it without fanfare or bringing it up.
Strong and silent.
Also, at some point as you take more charge with the kids, it wouldn't hurt if you showed HER that YOU can get mad at them for not following the rules or your directions. She will then either agree with your stance or tell you that you are being "too tough" on them. Wouldn't that be interesting? How can you lose if that happens. She will either see you as part of the "team" or
want you to ease up on them. (ROLE REVERSAL in process) This would be GOOD for the relationship at this point. Rember, she has had to be the "tough one" most all the time. Nobody likes or always wants to be the dicipinarian with kids. Don't put that all on her shoulders. It isn't fair to her. It isn't fair to the kids. It isn't fair to you.....