No news on the H-front. Haven't seen him since jj class on Wed., tho he came to the house Fri. to mow the lawn when we were gone, & when he called yest. & today, I either let it go to vm or had kids answer.
Some pretty hard stuff just went on w/kids
. After I put them in bed, D comes out of her room to me & says "I want to talk about you & daddy." Heart-wrenching, gut-clenching, horribleness. . .
"I just want it to be over." "I never knew my heart could hurt like this." and, when I said I was sorry her heart hurt so badly, she said
"It doesn't hurt; it's broken!" And tears, which made me tear up & when (Emotional Caretaker) S came out of his room to group-hug us, bring tissues & dab at our eyes, even more tears came to me, which in turn made D cry more.
I just tried validating and listening mostly, offering that it was nothing she needs to fix (She said she would do anything to make it right btwn H & me) & saying
"I'm sorry, baby. I'm so sorry." She said,
"I feel like I'm in the way." but I didn't get her to clarify that real well, so unsure where that was coming from.
"I want to go back to the beginning when it was good." "I want to be a baby again." S continually tried to comfort w/AOS - getting her drink of water & box of tissues, holding the straw to her mouth, dabbing her tears & getting her to blow her nose, petting her hair, hugging her & getting on her level, looking into her eyes & saying
"It'll be all right. It's going to be fine." When he said
"I'll take care of you." I gently told him it wasn't his job to do that; it was and will always be my job & H's job to take care of both S & D. I'm so glad he cares FOR D, but that it wasn't his job to TAKE CARE OF her or anyone else since he was just a child himself... He tried to offer her comfort by saying they'll have TWO Easters and TWO Christmases - one at Miss Andrea's house & one w/mommy -(H told them they wouild be spending Christmas w/her in WI)- and D asked if hearing her name made me angry or sad cuz
"I don't want to hurt your heart" so I had to go into how they could say anything to me, and even I used her name (side: and I've always called her MISS Andrea - the polite Southern child way of speaking about any adult) and not to worry about me like that. . . Finally got D back into bed & we prayed out loud (She prayed her usual
'thank-you God for [names] and [things]' prayer; then I prayed for God to watch over S & D, me & H and help us do the right thing, the way He would want us to act; then D wanted to pray again along those lines, w/a
'tell daddy I love him, and make this all end soon please'. Hugely horrible & I feel drained.
Not a wonderful way to start off the new thread, but there you have it. My Life.
Quick rehash:
Initial Bomb(s): Oct & Nov. 06
DBing Began: 1/5/07 [Friendship/Roommate phase)
H Moved Out: 3/17/07 [Punishment Phase begun & escalates to date]
H having PA
No papers filed yet; tho H says he's "working on it" & I "just need to have a little more patience"
I Will Go Down With This Ship. . .
Oh, and a link to the previous thread: Stillme & the Plan:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1116078&page=2#Post1116078Did have a pretty good day, tho, earlier after GALing (me & kids) last night til midnight. Took S to jiu jitsu class at 9am, picked up D's friend for scheduled playdate on the way home, then ran thru grocery for lunch stuff b/c S's friend from j.j. plus his little bro & his mom (who I'd just made friends w/this past wk) were coming over for the day. Whirlwind spot-cleaning of the house & they arrived at 11:30 & left around 2:30. I tried reading (currently working on Hendrix/Getting The Love You Want + re-reard of DR) but gave it up afer 20 min. & had an almost-nap on the couch for an hour while D & friend watched Hannah Montana episodes. Friend-A called & I 'woke' up; then H called (I let D get it), answered a few emails, computer stuff, checked the bb (o/c!), then made whatever-supper for kids & me. Friend-A had told me to call her if I wanted to get out this eve. (Was wanting to get a sitter & go to the movies/bookstore for a while just to be out) but I was really too wiped & couldn't gather the energy. So, just a gen'l boring day doing things for myself & kids pretty much. DID enjoy talk/support from new friend-B, tho. She said twice,
"H still loves you." & "It's obvious H loves you." (She 'knows' him from jj; tho I don't think they've ever spoken & she did't know of our S until I told her Wed. at class.) I didn't pursue her Reasons for saying that, and mostly shrugged the thoughts away.
Got church in the a.m., then told kids I'd take them to Ratatouille & the mall (been trying to get some shorts for me for a week or more!) in the afternoon. Maybe I'll do the bbysitter tomorrow night for a bit. . .
(((Stillme))) (((Stillme's S and D)))
I am so sorry about how this is affecting your kids, and I am sorry about how it affects all of our kids. I think it is really good how D can talk so openly about it and you do a great job of keeping those lines of communication opened. It must have been incredibly hard mention Miss A in your conversation, but you seemed to handle it w/ grace. It is very sweet how your S takes care of you and especially your D, but it is good for you to make clear to him that it is not necessarily his job. The "kid" part of all of this is the most heart-wrenching part of all.
Still Me
I feel so sad for you and your kids. I think I need Kleenex now. I hope the same thing doesn't happen to mine. That is my biggest worry. This is so hard with children. Did you and your H sit down with the kids and explain to them when this first happened? Did you tell them this was an adult problem that they had nothing to do with this? I know you can tell kids that but they still may not believe it. Have you taken them to counseling? It may help. I know your son seems really strong now but I'm sure this will affect him in the future.
WHY does it have to be this way?!!
I hope you and your kids have a better day tomorrow.
Hang in there and you all will be in my prayers.
Thanks, Matt
Matt, H told the kids by himself that he would be moving out, and I don't know what he said exactly but, from the little the kids have said about it, gather he explained what D was & that he would be moving out & everything would be fine after the D. Yuk. I have read sev. good books on helping children cope w/D (H has recently said he has as well, tho he was quick to point out the 'resilient' and 'they'll be fine' references) I DO tell them this is H & my problem, and they are in no way to blame or need to fix or worry about us & it. We're trying to do the best we can for everyone. I repeat it often. I ask them often if they'd like to talk, or tell me how they're feeling, or if they want to call C. I had them meet w/my C a few times (monthly?) since April/May - & they admitted to C (tho had never said anything to me other than that they were 'fine' & didn't want/need to talk) that one had stomachaches and the other had headaches. D had problems going to sleep/nightmares; and S would sometimes not eat his lunch at school. D has become more clingy/whiney/cries/easily frustrated. H has frustration/anger issues (tho this may just be 9yr old boy stuff too). I'm trying to keep on top of this all; H thinks they are "just fine". C said S is classic "Emotional Caretaker", trying to take care of me & D (the 'victims' he sees), so I've been gently cautioning him about that. He seems strong, but his way (repression/taking care of others instead of dealing w/his own feelings/emotions) is BAD! They are seeing C soon to discuss the recently-disclosed A (oh, excuse me, GF! - b/c it's not an A if H doesn't consider himself M'd), H's involvement of kids w/her last week & H's advising the kids to not tell me & out-&-out lie to me about her/etc. (at which point I told H he was a f'ing moron & he disgusted me).
Prayers are needed, and appreciated. Thanks.
stillme, since you live in central FL, I'm convinced that me and you should just hook up. This will make our partners jealous.
Still,
I have talked to my W about this also and she said that she thought my D would take this the hardest and that the middle son would be okay and the youngest S would be okay because he was so young (he'll be 5 in Nov). I can't believe she said that stuff. She would have never said that stuff a year ago. Do they really believe that crap?? Their resilant! What a bunch of Sh*t!! Sorry about that! It just sort of pisses me off when all they can think of is themselves and say that it won't really bother the kids.
I don't know how your H can bring OW around the kids this soon! That is just f'ed up!
I'm sorry Still this is not what you need. I'm not helping you at all. Do you know who the "GF" is? How long they have known each other? Or been with each other?
Matt
I can't believe H is really making plans to be with OM for Christmas in WI in 5+ months. That seems foolish. I would be tempted to wager they aren't still an item at Christmas. It's not for sure, but I like the odds.
(((((still)))))
Sorry your D is struggling so much emotionally and that S is stowing his away because he feels he needs to for you and D. I can understand how drained you must feel. The good thing is that D does want to talk to you about it -- and hopefully S will open up soon enough (what a trooper though -- I just want to squeeze the little booger for his altruism!). My kids are so young and were so used to me being gone at nights anyway (because I was always planning lessons and grading papers) that it wasn't too hard for them to get used to things. My son said things at first like, "Daddy, Mommy's heart is broken," but that was very early on after W got her own place, and he hasn't talked about much since. I have always encouraged him to talk to me about it if/when he ever wanted to, but it has been few and far between when he's taken me up on it. Last week my D actually said, "Daddy, I'm gonna marry [my brother] and you're gonna marry Momma." It was so cute, but so sad. I just said, "Oh really. You're so cute!". W's good friend told me last week that S5 had told W, "I don't want to be a dad." Apparently, when W asked him why he said, "because there aren't enough girls,". I guess W just laughed and told him that there are plenty of girls. I'm assuming that he said this because he sees Mommy with OM, but Daddy living alone. I was so broken over this, but didn't show it to W's friend (apparently everyone thought it was funny except me). Sorry, kinda hijacked your thread for a second there.
I can't believe H is really making plans to be with OM for Christmas in WI in 5+ months. That seems foolish. I would be tempted to wager they aren't still an item at Christmas. It's not for sure, but I like the odds.
I couldn't agree more, Nomes -- my exact thoughts when I read that. It's like H
wants that info to get back to j. Certainly not a wise decision on H's behalf, simply because of the uncertainty that 5 months could bring (maybe she'll have her nails done by then -- but will likely still have an orange hue!
).
Take care of those kids, still! (((j)))
GD
(((j)))
I dont have much to add. That stuff from your kids brought tears to my eyes. You have such wonderful caring kids treasure them.
Dave
GD, thanks for your thoughts. Yeah, my kids are the sweetest things. They were my project, and I've done a good job w/them. Hope to continue it, tho surely uncertain and confused most days. . .
And I agree w/you & N about the Christmas plans H has to be w/GF in WI. But remember, this is a man who (tho he SWORE up & down would not be getting into another R, would never M again [OH! let me remember to post something about that!], has 'found' & latched onto a woman, apparently making just such a life for himself BECAUSE HE HATES TO BE ALONE, LOVED THE 'BEING M'd' PART OF HIS LIFE, AND NEEDS CONSTANT ATTENTION/AFFECTION/AFFIRMATION THAT HE IS NOT UNWORTHY/UNATTRACTIVE/UNDESIRED [his insecurities]
But thanks for that visual about her 'tan' & nails. I like the way you think!
I never mentioned before -- Orginally b/c I didn't think it was relevant & wanted to keep the first-post-sitch-explanation as brief as I could; and then still b/c I didn't think it was relevant; and then b/c I was embarrassed. . .
Anyway, H was M before, and he is (I see now) replaying that exact sitch w/me! Only that M ended "the way he planned" & he went on w/his life as if it never really happened. He had excuses; I made excuses. . .But it formed him, and he was formed FORM IT. Let me see how brief I can be, plus a little b/g on H's parents/family dynamics.
H is younger of 2 brothers. Dad was alcoholic/wife beater. Mom was passive (epitome of naive Southern lady, plus min. education in tiny-town Louisiana, who got preg. by Dad & M'd him, tho he was bad news & she knew it). When boys were 17 & 20, they convinced mom to D dad; they were old enough to 'take on' dad & were doing so; and mom (peacemaker now on behalf of her sons) was saving them from themselves (tho she would never have saved herself from him). Boys (buth esp. H) was & still are very protective of their mom. But mom basically walked away from the M, saying she "didn't want" anything from Dad (and that's what she got); she just wanted out.
So H 'lost' his family; and, long story short, soon after chased the hot Mexical woman who's daddy owned everything, gve her an ultimatum when she wanted to/did date everyone else in site and, back & forth, eventually they M'd; he joined the Navy & they moved to off base/San Diego. Things did not go well; she was volitile, wanted to keep living as daddy had allowed her to become accustomed, partied & was out drinking late often. As H put it, "I was sure she was cheating on me, so I did, and that was the end of that." (Yeah, and I closed my eyes to all this, and made excuses for him.) He filed for D then went on a 6-mo 'cruise' w/his ship; she didn't contest & ta-da! the papers came about a month after we met.
Oops, gotta run or I'll be late. more later.
stillme, since you live in central FL, I'm convinced that me and you should just hook up. This will make our partners jealous.
still,
That's tough, still -- I think when we're in love we do tend to put on the blinders and wave things off as being a completely different situation time, H/W, etc. A lot of what you said makes sense, and it is sad that H doesn't do some deep self-reflection and see his insecurities for what they are, and therefore his patterns and why they are such.
To bring this up and talk about it is big for you ((((j)))). The blinders are off and you are now willing to look at it all as a whole. I think this says a lot about where you're at.
thanks for that visual about her 'tan' & nails. I like the way you think!
Yeah, me too!
GD
Was catching up on the thread and got a possible preview of things my girls might say. My heart breaks for you Still. My W says that same things, that the girls will adjust.
It's true, they will. My parents divorced when I was young (I only have one, very vague memory of that 'family' time and it involved a small dog running away with a slipper) so I don't have memories of them together. She divorced my step-dad when i was about 11 or so (I was pretty happy about that. Verbally abusive and intimidating.) Hurt my half-brother. At any rate, I can say that kids will adjust and can be happy. You sound like a wonderful mother and that will help them keep together emotionally.
Best wishes.
BD
Wow, still. Reading about your H's background explains a lot about your H to me now. And let me just tell you-- you have NOTHING to be embarrassed about. When we love someone, we do put those blinders on and tell ourselves that w/us our Ss will be different. I am realizing a lot of things about my H now, that I chose to ignore because I loved him and I knew he (like anyone else) wasn't perfect. A big thing that I should have paid attention to was my H's lack of follow-through on committments he would make. I just never thought he would fail to follow-through on his marriage committment, even though I watched him fail on many other committments.
Thanks for sharing this with us. (((still)))
Another thing I realized (and this was an out-of-the-blue thought while I was at the movies w/the kids today) is that H ROUTINELY creates crises in his life but RARELY follows thru. When he first started doing it, I (o/c!) responded w/support (which diminished as times/events reoccurred) but proferred the "con's" on the idea but after a while (years) I learned to just listen, validate & leave it as a "Well, let me know if/when you're definately decided" and he NOT ONCE followed thru w/what he was thinking! Ex. I want to buy a dino [some 5-digit(?) racing/performance car-thingie] & have a professional dino-shop. . . What do you think about moving to NC [or Montana]. . .I'm talking to X about buying his [unfinished] racecar. . . Want to quit my job etc. I used to joke (w/him & others) that it was like he was on a 9-mo, um, "cycle" where he needed to stir things up & see where things settled.
(((j)))
There is nothing there to be embarissed about ( wish I learned spelling at school ! ).
Sounds like your H has some growing to do yet , and its a Dyno ( Dynometer) he wants , dont we all ! . Us guys love toys and dreaming about them.
You know all you can do is be the best person you can. He has to find a way of working out his own issues if and when he wants too.
Hopefully his wonderful kids will be a good enough reason for him to start down that path. Right now its probably about how everything affects him.
Dave
Still- after reading your last post, are you sure you are not married to my H? I can't tell you how many, "I'm going to start a business" ideas my H has cooked up. I used to get really nervous when he would start talking about things like that, (although I made an outward effort to be supportive of his plans)but then I realized he was never going to follow through on any of it, so I didn't get nervous anymore.
Still,
just caught up after a few days at the beach. I can see that you need some introspection time, but please refocus on your goals. I am also having trouble getting through a re-read of DR.
Maybe this is avoidance on our part of having to set goals which are completely unfocused on our S's? That is the point of complete detachment I think.
Take care of yourself and your great kids!
SD
Still: As noted, no reason to be embarrassed. And all of your reflections and insights on H and your M just confirms that what is happening in your sitch is more about H than you or your M.
SuperDad's comments about detachment made me think about something that has been bugging me. I think we like to throw around this idea of detachment, and how critical it is to what we are all going through, but I don't think there is a clear understanding of what it means or why it is important.
I agree 100% that every person needs to be emotionally detached, if that means that each of us needs to recognize that we alone are responsible for our happiness. Our personal happiness is not dependant on anyone else. But I hear people say things that essentiallly suggest you can't worry about your spouse at all, think about your spouse at all, or focus on how you interact with your spouse or how they react to you. This idea manifests itself in comments like "you shouldn't care if they are stil wearing their wedding band," "you aren't detached enough if you wonder about the OP," or "your goals should be completely unrelated to your WAS," and things like that. Although there are valid reasons for some of these things (eg, not snooping re: an OP, not getting bent out of shape about rings, and having individual goals or GALing), in my mind, the explanation of detachment as an end in and of itself misses the mark. If I am forgetting the part in DR that says we should be oblivious to our WAS, someone please point it out to me.
Consider, for example, the idea that we need individual goals. I agree individual gaosl are important, but many if not most of the example goals in DR are about the WAS. It is, after all, a book about saving our Ms. And the whole idea of "first signs" is about what another person (who we can't control, but may be able to influence) is doing or not doing.
I think the idea of detaching (when it is used as if it means being completely oblivious too or isolated from our WAS) is as misused around here as the strategy of "going dark." And what I think is really happening is that people are trying prevent themselves from being hurt - it is a major defense mechanism. "I can't be hurt if I don't care." Personally, I am willing to risk some (more) heartache to
try save my M.
Sorry for the diversion. Just had to get that off my chest. Thoughts? And if I am wrong, please set me straight.
Nomo
SD, you're right about getting back to the Goals. . . One of my original (Mar.) goals was to have friendly/casual interactions/convos w/H - w/o (at that time) The Looks or Attitude (that he totally blamed me...& could hardly stand to be in the same room as me). . . To get back to Jan/Feb. when he would actually KISS MY CHEEK g'bye (when he still lived at home) (it wasn't hte mouth-peck we'd fallen into pre-bomb, but it was SOME SORT of touch!). When I avoided the pecks & said, "You don't love me. Why would you want to kiss me?" (yeah, initial stages still & feeling very wounded & raw) he said "Well, you ARE still the mother of my children." At the time, I thougth, WTH IS THAT?! & let my hurt lead me.
So, my current goal is to get back to THAT: friendly/casual (a) and then going for (b): some form of affection [touch of my hand, hand me a glass of something & let our fingers touch - anything other than jumping out of my way if I pass too closely now].
So, w/that in mind + our current sitch (you know what that is), I'm having to backpedal & re-set. The last Day we had was a week ago today when we both said awful, ugly, damaging things. He was bullying, openly disrespecting & saying things & calling me names he never used anywhere/anytime in his life before. I 'threatened' him/his time w/the kids & called him names myself. I said he disgusted me. Now, am currently Dark [no contact - and I told him/set my boudaries aobut this so it's no surprise to him - and avoid him when we're in the same place [jiu jitsu studio, my home]; I'm letting his calls go to vm or havintg the kids answer; answering the phone "Yes" to him instead of "Hi" or even (his) "Hey" & hanging up first. Generally being all-business/curt but not ugly. This will even out - esp after I'm gone from Sat-Wed while his mom visits the kids (Wed-Wed). I'm setting an "I'm not in any way holding onto you, and in fact often have MUCH BETTER things [people? person?] to think about" stage. I'll be backing off on the 'curt' & throwing in some "I'm so happy I can even be nice to you" atitude soon. I think this is important [a transitional period] since he will no doubt be highly suspicious if I jumped into "nice" mode before a reasonable Dark period has elapsed. After all, I'm not a saint. lol And I WILL NOT go back to letting him think I am/treat me as a Doormat.
So, am I rambling, or just clarifying my own thoughts 'out loud'?
Gotta take a break for a min. Will be back soon to respond to you No. But I agree LOTS!
I am running out for a lunch workout, so only scanned this but,
So, my current goal is to get back to THAT: friendly/casual (a) and then going for (b): some form of affection [touch of my hand, hand me a glass of something & let our fingers touch - anything other than jumping out of my way if I pass too closely now].
Excellent goals in my mind. What is your timing for these? I see (a) as shorter-term (could be 1 or 2-week goals, but probably after your current distancing, going dark is concluded) and (b) as intermediate or longer-term (like for me, maybe by year end).
Good morning SweetStill,
Trying to create just the right mood b/f I see you on Sat.
Your post sounds like you're regaining the balance needed to continue on the DB journey, where ever it might lead you.
I, as I'm sure most of us here, can identify with the letting the raw/wounded feeling lead us. It almost always leads us away from positive movement in not only our R with S's, but also our other R's.
Personally, your thoughts came out very clear.
Thanks for sharing them,
Sunny
hey still,
I'm going to cut in real quick to address Nomo's post on detaching:
I think the idea of detaching (when it is used as if it means being completely oblivious too or isolated from our WAS) is as misused around here as the strategy of "going dark." And what I think is really happening is that people are trying prevent themselves from being hurt - it is a major defense mechanism.
I think you're really on to something here, and I really agreed with everything you said. It was very clear, and made absolute sense. I've often wondered about the contradiction there too, but you've really identified a middle ground where the two polars can meet. I agree that many people want to detach in everyway possible to avoid that hurt that they've been feeling (and that feels so overwhelming), but doing so doesn't allow them to completely deal with their loss (face it and work through it) IMO.
In closing, I will now sum up my "thoughts" on your analysis by quoting my favorite statement from the Guiness beer commercials:
"Brilliant!"
GD
Yeah, definately short-term for the "nice" to start &, hopefully, ease the tenseness/interactions. I'm thinking to ease into it by the end of this wk. &, allowing the space my mini-vaca away next wk will provide [decided to tell H his mom/kids can play at my house during the wk since he doesn't have much for them to do there], stepping it up perhaps (along w/the mysterious-ness of where I went & what "friends" I have to visit) by the end of next wk.
So, journaling yest./today so far -
H called 2x yest. & 1x this morning w/'non-issue' reasons:
H "I had to go in to wk today (Sun) & it's a prob that will prolly run over to tomorrow [he was supposed to have kids Mon/overnight] & wanted to give you notice."
Me: "Okay. When you know more definate, let me know."
H: "Okay. I appreciate that. Thanks."
Me: "Is that all?"
H: "Yes."
Me: "Okay, bye." [click]
Then this morn.
H: "What time did you want me to p/u kids today?"
Me: "That's up to you."
H: "Do you have plans today?"
Me: "Yes."
H: Well, I've got some things going --[starts to talk about work prob & having to p/u truck from shop]
Me: Look, when you know what's going on, let me know."
H: "Okay. I'm a few phone calls & get back to you."
Me: "Fine. Bye"
H: [jumping in w/his 'Bye' quicker this time!] & we click off at about same time.
Then about an hr later:
H: "Josh (new friend?) & are were thinking of going to the gym to work out, and I wanted to know if you were okay w/keeping the kids until we're done. . .
Me: Is there a time frame for that?
H: Uh, I guess about an hour.
Me: I mean, what time do you expect to be picking them up?
H: Oh, uhhhh, how's 11:30?
Me: Okay. They'll be here. [click]
So he gets here at 11:30. I open the door to him & walk away. He picks up his mail at entry table, carries it into the kitchen & Is opening it by the trashcan & throwing away the 'junk'. I don't calmly go into kids' bath where D has been a few. Sit on the edge of the tub while she concentrates. H sings out "Hey, [D pet name]! Whatcha doin?" D: "Goin potty!" After SEVERAL min. we go out. H says to D, "Are you ready to go?" and I kiss the kids g'bye, then walk by him thru to my bedroom & close the door. They all leave.
While I was typing the above (interrupted by other phone calls), H left a vm (about 12:30) asking if he could take the kids to a Disney waterpark w/[H of an acquaintance/mom of D's ballet friend who is also S & living in these apts.] H says he knows it's not his day, but its' the day R has off & can get them all in (free, since he's a Disney employee) & H is not asking to have the kids o'night; just during that day. "Call me back & let me know, okay?" I was waiting to return his call and then he calls AGAIN (just b/f 1:30) & I'm letting it go to vm & hear the dang garage door opening!! Guess, technically, he's "calling before he comes over" but geez! And he couldh't have said an hour earlier in his vm that he was going to be coming by for the boat?! Anyway, I open utility room door at his knock & he says he needs my car keys to move it & get his boat out. Says, not meeting my eyes and obviously angry/frustrated,
H: "You don't need to be so passive-aggressive, you know and avoid my calls."
Me: (innocently)"I was in the bathroom doing my hair, J."
H: "Well, I can never get you on the phone."
Me: "I told you that's the way it was going to be."
H: (angry) "Hmmph".
I handed him the keys & went into the bathroom to DO my hair [Coincidentally, I had blown my hair dry but hadn't yet finished it, so my 'excuse' was reasonable!] When I came out, H had put the keys on the kitchen counter & left w/the boat.
So, I just called him back about the waterpark day Wed. Said I just saw he had called earlier & that D had a dentist appt (a rescheduled, rescheduled one) & S had jj at 5, but if he wanted I could reschedule the dentist appt again. He (Yay!) had a normal voice & (horray, but o/c, obviously happy that I was accommodating/agreeing w/him/his schedule) said some "If you could" "I would appreciate" and "Thanks again" at the end, and actually [HA!] chuckled at one point when saying about jj class, "I don't care if S misses Wed. classes too much. I mean, I know they want the kids to exercise & learn discipline & all, but it's mostly game-day so -- And you didn't hear this from me [chuckle] but that's what I think. But, in any case, we'll be back way before then." Then goes into (unnecessary) discussion about how the dentist shoujld be able to reshedule D for the same wk b/c they did for his appt 2 wks ago, and that if I scheduled it for when his mom was visiting, she could take D... -- So....tiny, tiny, itsy, bitsy, setting up for a baby step? Check.
Dang this got long. Sorry.
GD!!! You beat me (w/most of my own words!) to a response to Nomo's Detaching/Dark thoughts. Excellent! Nomo, I SOOOO believe the same way you do on this. My "Going down w/the ship" is my way of saying "I said I'd do ANYTHING, and that doesn't mean 'unless he's ugly' 'unless my feelings get hurt' 'unless it takes too long' unless, except, whatever." So, detach inasmuch as you don't focus on S's actions/inactions/thoughts/words/etc. but on your own; but monitor them & 'manipulate' as you can when you can towards your particular goals; detach to an "It's not about you; it's about me & what I want/need to do to be a Happier, Healthier, Better Person" [gonna have to learna cross-stitch I guess & make a pillow I say that so often] position. Go Dark to, again, (as in my current sitch) manipulate the interactions back to an even keel & to not allow spewing, ugly, disrespectful - ness, w/the added BUT NOT PRIMARY purpose of protecting your PMA/goals. You articulated it well, as did GD. Thanks.
Put as simply as I can, detach as much as you need to so you relize you don't
have to have your WAS or your R/M in order to be happy. After that, while some may call it detaching or think that not caring is how you get there, it's really just managing your emotions so you think clearly and make good choices.
You're sounding good J!
Onward and upward,
Nomopo
Still,Nomo,GD --
Great group of posts! I'm printing them out and refering to them frequently. Really well articulated versions of where I feel like I am/or at least want to be in regards to H.
Thanks you 3 amigos...
L
Excellent responses to your question Mopo!
I do see the confusion, & feel it myself, when I see a post saying, "you're not detaching properly from your S, you shouldn't care what they do." or "quit trying to manipulate".
Sometimes almost as if we weren't here b/c we wanted to be DB'ers.
So, detach inasmuch as you don't focus on S's actions/inactions/thoughts/words/etc. but on your own; but monitor them & 'manipulate' as you can when you can towards Pe your particular goals; detach to an "It's not about you; it's about me & what I want/need to do to be a Happier, Healthier, Better person"
In closing, I will now sum up my "thoughts" on your analysis by quoting my favorite statement from the Guiness beer commercials:
"Brilliant!"
GD - you are quickly becoming my favorite poster. Too bad you're not as cute as Still, Sunny, Kat, delia, L21959, NAP or any of the other female posters I can't think of right at this moment.
Nomo
(((still)))
Some tough times for you , but you are doing very well and its set some boundarys for what you expect going forward.
I have some thoughts on detachment. I have said before it comes in stages but I think you are ultimatley detached when you realise that you will not accept your old M back and you realise that you need much more from your S before you will let them back.
Its about not being involved in thier current life apart from when it involves you or your kids.
Its about not wondering where S is or who they are with.
Its not about going dark , being difficult or unfriendly.
Its about getting on with your own life while they sort through thier own mess.
Dave
Dave:
Not trying to pick a fight, but I truly don't understand some of this, so help me out. Perhaps in a friendly exchange of ideas we can both expand our learnings.
BTW, I do understand and like the concept of detachment coming in waves. I do believe it is a process that takes and happens over time.
I think you are ultimatley detached when you realise that you will not accept your old M back and you realise that you need much more from your S before you will let them back.
I understood pretty early on that my R/M wasn't satisfactory for me either. So, I guess I realized I would not accept my old M. Not quite sure I see how this is detaching, unless it is detaching from the old R. To me, this is just admitting that your old M/R wasn't perfect for you either, and that you deserve more as well. Maybe it has to do with not being so desperate for your WAS to be back that you think you'd go back to what you had pre-bomb just to get him/her).
As far as needing much more before you "let them back," we have to be careful about how we approach any attempt by the WAS at reconciliation. It we try to seize the power, that won't likely be conducive to re-building a great R either. We will feel empowered, but ultimately we may end up without a M/R with our spouses. It's almost like this is more about being "right." I do agree, however, that their ought to be a meeting of the minds on the commitment to re-build the M and what that entails - but the approach to that ought to be loving IMO.
Its about not being involved in thier current life apart from when it involves you or your kids.
Ok, this I think I like, but I might modify it to include other times when they WANT you to be involved. If my W comes to me today for support or validation on something that doesn't involve me or the kids (eg, her work, her family), I will be there for her (and will be happy to be there for her).
Its about not wondering where S is or who they are with.
This one I just don't get, and it is this kind of comment that prompted my earlier post. Of course, we can agree to disagree (and maybe I'm just lost), but to me this is only achieved when you don't care, and I don't see that as detachment. I see that as moving on (and possibly giving up). If you have truly moved on, then you have given up even though you might be open to starting from scratch if the opportunity arises. I don't see that as being where I am or want to be. I do care who she is with, and I will until I don't care about her in a romantic way anymore.
Its about getting on with your own life while they sort through thier own mess.
I see this as GALing, and I think it is key to the emotional detahcment I have described. Not sure this is detaching so much, but that is quite possibly the most confused term on these boards.
What do you think?
Nomo
Nomopo
No problems , I dont want to hijack this thread however will try to explain my thinking.
Also its very important for all of us on here to know that we are just reading other peoples opinions and I guess most of us are just feeling our way and as such these opinions should not be taken as absolutes.
As far as needing much more before you "let them back," we have to be careful about how we approach any attempt by the WAS at reconciliation. It we try to seize the power, that won't likely be conducive to re-building a great R either. We will feel empowered, but ultimately we may end up without a M/R with our spouses.
What I am trying to get across here is that both parties need to agree to give a reconciliation 100% effort.
There are a lot of examples here of people trying to piece when the WAS is still not committed and may still have limited contact with OM/OW and still in limbo. I have been there and it just dosnt work.
Originally Posted By: C_K
Its about not wondering where S is or who they are with.
This one I just don't get, and it is this kind of comment that prompted my earlier post. Of course, we can agree to disagree (and maybe I'm just lost), but to me this is only achieved when you don't care, and I don't see that as detachment. I see that as moving on (and possibly giving up). If you have truly moved on, then you have given up even though you might be open to starting from scratch if the opportunity arises. I don't see that as being where I am or want to be. I do care who she is with, and I will until I don't care about her in a romantic way anymore.
It is not about not caring , its about being able to get to a level where you dont have a desire to snoop or drive past her house, where you can go to bed at night and not stay awake wondering about her.
This one is more for the LBS . If I lie at night thinking about W and who she may be with etc , I would go slowly crazy.
I work on the basis there is nothing she can do that she has not already done and its what she has chosen , therefore I dont need to worry about it.
I am probably further down this road than you , Its been well over a year since My wife did anything loving towards me and I do not have a lot of "romantic feeling" towards her right now.
Perhaps I am building an emotional wall to stop being hurt more.
I dont know if you saw what i wrote to warm & sunny about the Dodo birds?
We all need to chose the path that we see as right, otherwise we risk following each other into extinction.
Dave
It is not about not caring , its about being able to get to a level where you dont have a desire to snoop or drive past her house, where you can go to bed at night and not stay awake wondering about her.
This one is more for the LBS . If I lie at night thinking about W and who she may be with etc , I would go slowly crazy.
I agree with this Dave, it's not about not caring, it's not about ignoring them, never thinking about them or what they're doing, it's about doing it in a healthier way.
Someone once told me I was "worrying the bone" on something. That is what I picture when I am too focused on the actions & possible results of my WAS. All I know is, it seems to come together in a more positive way when I don't worry it so much.
You do see some LBS's appear to try to piece solo. It needs both parties together on that stage for sure. Maybe that's why the vet's caution us when they get a hint of that possibility.
Best,
Sunny
I just love your posts Dave...
Well, the discussion is over (again, I missed the party and it was on my own thread, too!
) but here's my 2pennies worth:
C_K: I think you are ultimatley detached when you realise that you will not accept your old M back and you realise that you need much more from your S before you will let them back.
What I heard is the important:
You are detached when you realize you no longer NEED your M or your S, but you actually just PREFER it/them. (Think that's Homer's words.) - It's not so much about the 'letting them back' conditions, but the fact that you are not blindly, desperately NEEDING the M any more & willing to do anything to KEEP IT (as opposed to re-create it). Yes or no?
Also, about this:
C_K: Its about not wondering where S is or who they are with.
I know exactly what you mean, Dave, and I agree. But I also think this only comes in (alot of) time. Nomo is still a baby (or, sorry, babe). I think we forget that in view of his DBing-knowledge & insight. But, truly, there comes a time when we (Dave & I at any rate) don't fill our days w/thoughts of our S (not the negative NOR the positves!) and there are whole chunks of the day when we actually almost(?) forget the sitch exists. Weird, but true. And it's something that almoset creeps up on you unaware and, one day, you think,
"My gosh! I haven't thought about S [or sitch or pain/blame/whatever] all morning! How did that happen?!" And you dont' really care HOW it happened, you're just so mightily glad that it did. And you say,
"Oh, this is what Detached feels like. Yesssss!" I think that's what (?maybe) was meant by
"not wondering where S is or who they are with".
I'm following you, Still and I agree. I think the reason that Nomo might see it differently is because his W, even if she won't admit it, is not as detached from him as some of our S's are from us-and that's a good thing! Because of that, he is not as detached from her as the rest of us are from our S's- that's good for him too! I agree that it is just being different places in the process, and I certainly hope that his R never progresses to the point that some of ours have. Don't mean to talk about you like you aren't here, Nomo!
Ahh
You put what I was thinking into words much better than I was able.
But, truly, there comes a time when we (Dave & I at any rate) don't fill our days w/thoughts of our S (not the negative NOR the positves!) and there are whole chunks of the day when we actually almost(?) forget the sitch exists.
Exactly , this doesnt mean we don't care but its not a bad place to be.
I would love to have my family back together as I think we all do here but I wont accept reuniteing for convenience because all that will happen is that we will beck here in a few years time.
Later I may post my first story , it has a lot of lessons as to what happens when you get this all wrong.
Dave
So, did boring computer/paper/phone call work all day, then taught private P.session, changed into sexy-Still & took myself to Borders for a few hrs.
Oh, H came by about 4:30 (BEFORE my transformation, darn it! but I still looked pretty good) to bring the boat back. Knocked on utility room door & asked for my keys to return my car from the street to the driveway, but I said "Oh, don't bother. I'm going out soon anyway." He grunted & didn't much look at me. (of course)
Got a call from Friend-R (the W of the jj instructor/H's friend who has made it known he doesn't agree w/H's decisions). I had called her twice recently but missed her, then she was on vaca, then she was sick. . . So we talked about those things and then she said she had seen H at jj class this eve. & they said 'hi' to each other & when H said, "Did N tell you my friend visited last week?", she said "Oh, that's nice" or some such (having no idea cuz her H doesn't tell her anything, lol) & H said "Yeah, the kids really liked her" and she realized what they were talking about & was, like, "WTF?!" b/c she's MY friend & H knows this. She didn't say it outloud only b/c my kids were standing there, but that's what she was thinking. I said H was trying to make his life "normal" and "okay" by talking about it like that, and he'd even introduced his GF to my long-time BFF w/nary a blink. Weird Alien.
So we talked about how H wanted our kids to have a playdate w/her kids while his mom visits, and I said that would be a good idea if she was up for it. She said she just wanted to keep the lines of friendship & communication open w/H and not push him away w/her or her H's thoughts on his R or decision or whatever. I said that was good.
Read nearly all of His Needs/Her Needs at the bookstore. Highly recommend it as it has some really good info & instructions on the diff. btwn men & women - and I'll definately implement it -- whether in a re-created M w/H or another R.
Friend-A had called earlier to say she'd be at a restaurant w/someone she hasn't seen in a year & invited me to join them. I went but only after they had just about finished dinner, talked for a bit, then came home. Now it's about time for bed. . .
PS, I'm an idiot! This is actually MONTH SEVEN!! (since DBing began) My how time flies!
Still (not an idiot): good journaling!
Thanks for all the responses Dave, Still, Sunny and Kat! That all helps a ton!
we are just reading other peoples opinions and I guess most of us are just feeling our way and as such these opinions should not be taken as absolutes.
Great point!
What I am trying to get across here is that both parties need to agree to give a reconciliation 100% effort.
There are a lot of examples here of people trying to piece when the WAS is still not committed and may still have limited contact with OM/OW and still in limbo. I have been there and it just dosnt work.
Agree with this 100%!
It is not about not caring, its about being able to get to a level where you dont have a desire to snoop or drive past her house, where you can go to bed at night and not stay awake wondering about her.
This one is more for the LBS . If I lie at night thinking about W and who she may be with etc , I would go slowly crazy.
I work on the basis there is nothing she can do that she has not already done and its what she has chosen , therefore I dont need to worry about it.
This was very useful, and Sunny cleared it up for me even more (see below). Thanks again.
I am probably further down this road than you , Its been well over a year since My wife did anything loving towards me and I do not have a lot of "romantic feeling" towards her right now.
Agreed, and it makes sense.
I dont know if you saw what i wrote to warm & sunny about the Dodo birds?
We all need to chose the path that we see as right, otherwise we risk following each other into extinction.
I don't remember it. Can you re-post it?
Thanks Dave! That helped me a lot! Much appreciated friend.
I agree with this Dave, it's not about not caring, it's not about ignoring them, never thinking about them or what they're doing, it's about doing it in a healthier way.
Healthier way! I love that Sunny!
All I know is, it seems to come together in a more positive way when I don't worry it so much.
Yep, I think. Not many days like that (although Sunday was probably the day I thought least about my WAS since looking into the abyss in Jan.). And when I realized it, it felt good!
What I heard is the important: You are detached when you realize you no longer NEED your M or your S, but you actually just PREFER it/them. (Think that's Homer's words.) - It's not so much about the 'letting them back' conditions, but the fact that you are not blindly, desperately NEEDING the M any more & willing to do anything to KEEP IT (as opposed to re-create it). Yes or no?
Yes!!! I think this part I have down, BTW.
Also, about this:
C_K: Its about not wondering where S is or who they are with.
I know exactly what you mean, Dave, and I agree. But I also think this only comes in (alot of) time. Nomo is still a baby (or, sorry, babe). I think we forget that in view of his DBing-knowledge & insight. But, truly, there comes a time when we (Dave & I at any rate) don't fill our days w/thoughts of our S (not the negative NOR the positves!) and there are whole chunks of the day when we actually almost(?) forget the sitch exists. Weird, but true. And it's something that almoset creeps up on you unaware and, one day, you think,
"My gosh! I haven't thought about S [or sitch or pain/blame/whatever] all morning! How did that happen?!" And you dont' really care HOW it happened, you're just so mightily glad that it did. And you say,
"Oh, this is what Detached feels like. Yesssss!" I think that's what (?maybe) was meant by
"not wondering where S is or who they are with". Good stuff Still! Very useful. I haven't had many days like that (and maybe only this past Sunday). Here's to hoping for more.
I think the reason that Nomo might see it differently is because his W, even if she won't admit it, is not as detached from him as some of our S's are from us-and that's a good thing! Because of that, he is not as detached from her as the rest of us are from our S's- that's good for him too! I agree that it is just being different places in the process, and I certainly hope that his R never progresses to the point that some of ours have.
Well, I LOVED his Kat. I'm not sure it's true (at least as far as W being detached from me, but I HOPE so. Thanks!
Thanks again to all for the educational exchange. I feel kind of like we're in Platos' Republic (if I am remembering my philosophical processes, correctly).
Nomo
Still,
I changed the thread title, hope that's OK
.
Since I (sortof) started this whole debate with my comment about being completely detached, I will just clarify one thing.
I did not necessarily mean that this was a goal, or even a good thing, to be completely detached and no longer have goals related to our S's. Rather, my point was that you eventually get to this point if you see no progress toward your initial goals which involve your S. I think that Still, and I, are getting closer to this point than we really want to admit
.
That said, Still, you have done a nice recovery job with your PMA and refocussing on your original goal related to "normalizing" relations with your H.
Best wishes,
SD
Thanks for the (depressing
) clarification SD. I hear you!
The following is a (bootlegged) copy of Theoden's post to mcojh in the Infidelity forum from 2/12/07 that I needed to read today, and read and re-read tomorrow & the next day. . . Thanks, T, wherever you are. (Minor changes made to address my sitchj.
He's having an affair. You can't stop it directly.
Talk to people who have successfully won their spouses back and they'll all tell you their spouses felt the OM or OW was their "soul-mate" or the one they really wanted. It's what they all say. Statistically their affair will last only 6 mos. If they choose to marry, their marriage has a 65-75% chance of ending in a divorce. So if you are patient enough, you can last this out.
You can't bring him back to his senses. My wife also feels that God is leading her to question the marriage and consider running off with my best friend. God, who said, "Do not commit adultery." and "I hate divorce." has given your H a special pass to have an affair? I think not. I think he's downplaying the affair and trying to frame it like he's leaving you (divorce) and moving on to her (re-marriage) without the nasty connotations of adultery or an affair. Yes, someone is trying to put your H and OW together, but it's not God. It's the unholy trinity: the World (our culture encourages disposable marriages), the Flesh (his sinful nature) and the Devil (yes, he does exist.
And I know you want to *DO* something drastic that will end the realtionship between them and make him come back. It won't work. You are trying to force him to loosen his grip on the woman he's in love with. It doesn't work. What is he hearing when you try to push him away, "STOP being happy with that horrible woman and come back and be miserable with me. It's your Christian duty."
He needs to be wooed back.
Yes..GAL and do the 180 stuff. It's your only shot. You can attract him back. Give him what he's getting from OW. Oulast her. God is on your side. Be joyful, happy and fulfilled. IT will confuse him. He's expecting you to be this nasty, pathetic, moralistic, whining loser. Surprise him with your new self.
Remember all the desires he has for intimacy, joy and love are good desires. It's just that he's looking for it in the wrong place.
--Theoden
Thanks Still,
Theo is most definitley in the wrong line of job!!! I love to read his advice to others!!! He should be a counselor here!!
Still --
Thanks so much for putting this out there... while in my own sitch i would substitute some appropriate secular humanistic feelings, (and, in direct contrast to your 'chattykathy' H, my H is totally secretive about his EA/PA?) i was talking to myself in the car just now about these same ideas...
So MissStill, what are you doing for you today? I just bought myself 3 pretty new bras...(a big deal for me, 'cause I'm not much of a shopper...)woo,woo!!
L
Thanks for sharing Still!
Originally Posted By: C_K
Its about not wondering where S is or who they are with.
This one I just don't get, and it is this kind of comment that prompted my earlier post. Of course, we can agree to disagree (and maybe I'm just lost), but to me this is only achieved when you don't care, and I don't see that as detachment.
Before I move on to commenting on still's updates, I just wanted to add (and I'm not sure if this has been added yet or not -- just couldn't wait!
-- that this is achieved when you understand that you can't control your S and the choices they make, which includes who they spend their time with. I think it is important to understand why they enjoy spending time with OP, because it helps you to understand what your S needs in their life from you that you likely haven't been providing, but worrying about if/when they're spending time with OP or anyone else is counterproductive, because that specific knowledge does little, if any, good.
There, my late-but-better-than-never thoughts on that. Be back soon!
GD
hey still,
I think it is really interesting that H brought up the OW talk with your friend at jj class. I'm not exactly sure what it says, but it tells me one thing for sure -- this whole thing with you and with OW is really on his mind. I do agree that he could have said it because he was "trying to make his life 'normal' and 'okay' by talking about it like that." However, I also feel like he is trying to get the sitch more attention than necessary, and for what reason, I'm not sure. It could be that he's flaunting it, but it could also be because he wants to get a read from you in some indirect, roundabout way. One thing is for sure, his bringing it up sure seems suspect to me.
Great stuff that you found from Theoden, too. I read it a few times myself, and though I'm agnostic, I found a lot of truth in what was written...
Hasta la pasta!
GD
GD, I never considered it like that. Yes, H's introducing his "GF" to not only my BFF but another Friend IS weird. While I know he's said & done stuff to purposely hurt me cuz, well, "I deserve it", this just seems so totally out of character. (Ha! What am I saying?!) Yeah, he said to me it's not an affair b/c he doesn't consider himself M'd - but what other man so FLAUNTS his OW before even filing the D papers?! I was actually wandering the Infidelity board this morning to see if there was a certain way I SHOULD/SHOULDNOT be reacting to this GF-in-your-face-news. . . and I'm still not sure. Act his FRIEND?! Act AS IF I don't know, don't care, don't remember. . .? (How Doormat-y is that?!) or Stay Dark?
Yes, did some GALing today. D is waiting in her "nale salon" to paint our toes. I'll be back in a bit.
Hi Still,
While I'm waiting for my toes to dry, I thought I'd drop in for a quick minute.
It's pretty obvious that H wants it "out there" that he's seeing someone. Could be for any number of reason, including the ones you mentioned.
I'm still thinking about him relaying his "Christmas Plans" in July. Somehow I don't picture him being the type that prepares this early for "The Season to be Jolly".
All the more reason to pretty much ignore him & continue on W/Stillme's plan & life. I'm trying to follow the same advice BTW.
I am on my way to pick up roses to place in my beautiful abode, not b/c it'll make H feel any certain way (although that's maybe a nice by product), but b/c I want to do something for myself w/ no strings attached, which has taken on a new importance to me.
Why wait for someone to treat us right...maybe they'll get the right idea, maybe not...Hummmm, Red or pink to match toes.
These times with your adorable daughter are so touching....& so worth having been w/ your H for that alone, no?
Try not to let his "behavior", or lack of, get to you. Remember, water off a duck's back (GD's fav.). Less reacting the better & it appears he looking for reaction.
Like I said, I'm trying to follow the same.....
Onward & upward,
Sunny
Journaling GALing mostly, w/tiny interactions w/H thrown in the mix. . .
Taught 9am P.class at one gym, then went to the other in town to give (free) demo/intro session. On the way to first class, I called H & asked "When are you planning on bringing kids by today?" H: "Well, I'm making breakfast now. . ." Me: I'll be at G.Gym about 10:15 to 11:30. You want to drop them off at KiddieGym during that time?" H: Are you going to be home after that? Me: Probably not for a while. I have errands to do. H: Okay. I'll bring them to the gym. Me: Great. bye. [click]
While I was giving free P.session, H comes by the P.room w/the kids & hangs out on the outside of the doorway while kids come inside to me. Kiss D, introduce student to kids, tell H kids are not allowed in the gym areas (He says "They wanted to see you.") & remind him to sign them in under my name so they can be released to me (rules).
So, after session kids & I went home (totally forgot my errands & was heading in the wrong direction so blew 'em off today), had lunch, cleaned a bit, emailed/bb a bit then was so suddenly tired I couldn't stand myself & lay down in a near-coma for an hr while kids watched t.v. Took D to dentist (And got P.clients in the dental hygenist + her mom!), then to Friend-A's office to drop off burned CD of Bahamas pics & visit & ended up running errands w/her (& running into an old bf of hers whose 28-yr old friend was - Friend-A says - obiously "sweet" on me. HA!) and then going for dinner. Begged off further errands w/her & took the kids home where I am, again, cleaning & typing, but this time w/freshly-painted pink sparkle toenails courtesy of D.
Oh, one other thing: At some point, a box was delivered here for H from his work marked "Priority Overnight". He often would get parts over-nighted to him, but this is the first time since the S (and I'm assuming he's told the parts dept of his changed address) I've received one. (I think it was either a company thank-you or something non-urgent in any event.) Just in case, tho, I called H, got his vm (ha!) and said (w/no preliminaries; all business), "A box marked Priority was delivered from X this morning. If you need it, it's on the front porch." [click] (This goes in the 'keep em guessing' + 'dont be a doormat' column) Never heard back from him, but the pkg was gone when we returned this eve. I imagine he'll have to call at some point to say when he'll be picking up the kids for the waterpark tomorrow. I'll be nice(r) then.
I guess I am not managing my emotions very well. As I read your journal, I was so hoping you did not call H to tell him his package was there.
I guess I am not managing my emotions very well. As I read your journal, I was so hoping you did not call H to tell him his package was there.
Evil, Nomo!
However, I kind of like the idea of just leaving it by the door and letting him discover it on his own and on his own time. Weird that it was sent to you though, still, esp if he's likely been getting them at his place for a while now (if he's been getting packages at all -- do you know if he has?).
Okay still, I'm coming to Orlando now (cue the cheers!
). Is it now a 3 day, 2 night event -- you know, now that I'm coming
-- ? I guess I'll get a ticket like Nomo that puts me there Fri afternoon/evening and gets me out Sunday afternoon/evening . I liked the tentative list of activities posted too (poolside BBQ sounds pretty nice, esp with it being Aug -- what's the temperature like down there right now?).
GD
GD,
Orlando has two seasons, 1. hot and wet (that's now) and 2. warm and dry (that's winter). Count on a nice tropical weekend!
BTW, I plan to join you on Saturday/Sunday, but am still finalizing my travel plans back from TX.
Still,
You are doin' great, girl! I too loved that post from Theo and am using it to try to help refocus on my goals. Not so easy when your first try did not really have the effect that you hoped.
In any case, I think that your detached mode will be a great experiment.
Don't give up on it too soon either as H clearly needs some time to work out what he really wants out of life. Until he figures this out, he will never be happy. You unfortunately are today's excuse for his unhappiness, NOT the root cause of it. (I have to keep reminding myself this same thing in my sitch!)
SD
SD
Hey Sunny, funny how we were getting our toes done at pretty much the same 'time', huh? Pretty toes always make me feel better.
Trying to carry on w/StillMe's Plan & Life (thought that deserved to be capitalized, lol) and trying to ignore H's agenda for the most part & BE the Duck. Am back, apparently, to receiving demons in the middle of the night (Well, about 4am actually) that attack my Plan & PMA & confidence. Working, and praying, on that tho.
Twice lately people have misunderstood when I said I would certainly do this all over again. They said, "Well, of course, you have your children and that's worth it." or some such. Yes, of course, that's true; and I WOULD do my M all over again (even w/o the option of doign it over again RIGHT) but I would surely do this past "He!l" over, too. Whenever it started. . .to now. . . and beyond, because there have been SO MANY positives & good to come out of it! I keep saying, "I have to make a list of them" and I WILL. There are many, some tiny, some huge, most (probably all) life-changing for the better. I AM thankful.
Nomo, don't think I didn't consider not calling him about the pkg!
Trying to get back 'even keel' w/o animosity (openly, at least) is the goal, tho, so. . .
GD, yay! It'll be a party now! I'm glad you're coming!!
And w/SuperDad in, too, wow! I think Nomo was a little concerned he'd been (sigh) all by his lonesome w/a bunch of cuties (hmmm, wasn't it "little people?" you said, N?) for the wkend.
SD, thanks for the encouragement. Working on getting back to Detached. Certainly adding the OW into the sitch has thrown me more than I'd thought. Those are my late-night thoughts now - along w/financial stressors that will come to a head very soon. Sigh. One day at a time, tho, huh? And I loved the last part of your post. I will not give up on Detaching too soon. I KNOW time & space & working on me & Detaching & letting H work out (if he will) his own demons is what needs to be done. But thanks.
More stealing from ot hers' threads. . . This is from Sunny's thread regarding her convo & thoughts today that I've tweaked to speak to me personally. THANKS, SUNNY!
This brought home to me how j's [non pro-DBing] behavior triggers just the opposite of what she wants. If she approaches J in a different way, not applying pressure & guilt & instead acts as if she was a happy, confident person, J might be tempted at some point to at least lean in her direction eventually.
As it stands, J has no draw towards j at all.
So, just after I stole that, H calls. For some reason, my phone is not letting calls ring thru to me, but I DO get the "You've got a message" ring instead. He left vm that he & kids were still at pool & would be on their way soon, and did I have plans he needed to work around to get them back to me.
"Call me back, okay?" So, I called him back w/a
"Sorry. My dumb phone is doing it again...[& explained the prob.]" He said "That's okay." & he said how S was going to blow off jj class tonight (which I'd already assumed, since it was then the time we needed to leave to make class on time) & how the kids were really having a good time. I answered something, I don't know, encouraging I guess. And he said they'd be leaving pretty soon, he'd have them to me in a short while. Asked if I had someplace to be and what time, and we figured that out. Then he starts talking about how he's picking up his mom at the airport tonight around 10 & will prolly go in to work (before? after?) and then said something about getting the kids out of the pool, and I asked
"There's a pool there?" (cuz the waterparks I knew didn't) & he said
"Well, it's not exaclty a waterpark, it's the [Disney something]
Resort where R works. I don't know if [my friend]
B [R's estranged W]
can get you in here, but the kids love it and I'm gonna try to get them back some more." So, chalk another one up for Friendly Convo.
Yea Still --
Hooray for friendly convo! I printed off that post from Sunny... wonder if we can tattoo it in an inconspicuous spot for easy reference...
L
hey still,
Yep, that quote by sunny was like gold! Great reminder for all of us to stick to DB's core principle on LBS behavior.
Nice to see that you had a friendly convo with H -- easier to do on your end after reading sunny's statement, I'm sure! Getting back to basics..."You ROCK!" (lol!)
And thanks SD -- awesome that you're coming! Our being there will sure help Nomo out in that he won't be completely surrounded by Oompa Loompas!
GD
HEY! [insert smiley-face w/the slashes for eyebrows!]
LOL, more stealing. . .
From NDDT's thread:
[NDDT]The thing I do not really get is how all these Walk Aways go out and have there affairs, and somehow manage to convince themselves that it is the Left Behinds fault..... That we drove them to do this.
[Sandi2]Well, I don't know that I can give a satisfied answer or not, but I'll give you my humble viewpoint, for what it's worth. WAW feel so guilty and they are so unhappy and confused and they are on this frantic search for something to make them happy in life. They are in "limbo" and don't really know what they want to do, but they just want out of what they see as a really bad situation and probably the source of their unhappines (as they see it). Since they feel like crap about themselves, they have to drag the H down lower than themselves so they (the W) will look better. Also, they feel like they have to have their family, friends, etc., approval or permission for their decision to walk away from the M. If they are in an affair, the guilt and everything else is compounded, so they blast the H that much harder. You will probably notice that WAW hang out with those family members and friends that support their decision because they can't handle being around anyone that throws the hard cold truth at them. That is why so many are reluctant to go to MC with the H. They don't want to hear how they (the W) have failed in the M.
In my case, I felt like my H had always been the "good guy" with our kids, family, friends, etc. and I was seen as the "bad guy", so I had to make him [j] look very bad so that I would not be hated so much by everyone. If I could just make them see him [j] through my stained colored glasses, then they would encourage me to dump him [her] and go for the OM [OW].
The LBS is in so much shock over everything that has hit him, I guess it is hard for him to realize just how low the WAW will stoop to soothe her own soul.
Thank you, Sandi2!
Now THAT is insight worth printing and reading everyday! I wish Sandi would come visit my thread and beat me with some 2x4s...
GD
Oh, and sorry still -- I just couldn't resist the metaphor!
j
fantastic advice from warm&sunny here
All the more reason to pretty much ignore him & continue on W/Stillme's plan & life.
Sounds like things have settled a little for you. its still a rough road ahead so you might as well buckle in and enjoy the scenery along the way.
Dave
Been awake for a while & thought I'd journal (ie., talk to myself) for a bit . . .
Had a productive day yest. After b'fast, H came to get the kids for the waterpark. I was Dressed, made-up & perfumed (not that I'm not always, lol, but it looked like I had Somewhere to go that involved looking nice for whoever was going to be w/me) & breezed by H when S let him in. H had brought D a bathing suit he(or someone?) had obviously bought her & she changed out of the one she had on into it. I cheerfully commented on how cute she looked (Tho, as an aside, I sure do hope he finds some good taste soon & quits buying her things designed to change a 6yr old into a teenager!
) There was light 'convo' (one-liners mostly) about when they would be returning, hugs & kisses all around, and they were off.
Soon after I left for an appt I had at 11 w/the YMCA that had called looking for a P.instructor. Met w/the woman there (she wants me to teach 2 eve classes ea wk; have to fill out the paperwork & meet again prolly end of next wk when I return - yay!). Tried to find 2nd (closer) YMCA I see off the tpke but coudn't find the road to it but remember the in-town personal trainer studio Friend-A & I passed in our errands the other day so ran by there, left my card (closed for lunch still) & called, & have an appt w/owner today as he said several of his clients and people calling him have asked for P.instruction. Yay some more!
Did a few errands including the bank:
& came home & took a long hard look at the money sitch & June's income/expenses. Yuk.
When H knocked, bringing the kids back, I quickly went to the door, threw it open w/a big smile & said
"Hey! You're back!". Hugged S &, since H was carrying D & her head was down, whispered,
"Is she zonked out?" as I walked around the back of him to see her face. She lifted her head &, while she WAS tired, I saw that her poor little cheeks & nose were bright red.
"I forgot the suntan lotion", H says (prolly expecting I'm gonna say something derogatory), but I only say
"Awww, poor baby.". H said something about getting D out of her wet clothes & I let him take care of that, then D comes to me (I was sitting on the couch w/S asking about his day) & says daddy told her to have me put aloe on her face. H is right behind her & says,
"Do you have any?" [I'm sorry - this is all boring, but it's so nicely friggin' NORMAL that I have to talk about it!) While I'm putting the aloe on her, I hear H kiss S g'bye, call out to D & leave.
Taught private P.chick in the eve, had dinner, watched a little kid-t.v. snuggling w/them on the couch, got them ready for bed (and let D sleep in my bed) & that was about the end of the day.
Stillme, what are you doing up so early?
What am I saying, it is an hour earlier for me!
P instruction sounds like it is going great. That must be such a boost for you! Yay, still!
Sorry the money thing is a downer.
It will all work out, though.
I am glad you had a boring, normal interaction w/ H.
Thanks Kat! I use to tell everyone I "wasn't a morning person" (meaning "Morning" didn't officially start until 8am; anything before that, I was just going thru the motions). Now, w/all this wide-awake at 4am stuff. . . sheesh! You'd think I'd be a little more productive than sitting at a computer. Nahhhhh.
Hope your day goes well!
Well, you know, if you started vacuuming or something, you might wake up the kids! (that's what I tell myself)
[I'm sorry - this is all boring, but it's so nicely friggin' NORMAL that I have to talk about it!)
Normals good
Dave
Well, normal deteriorated yesterday. But today's another day (and the day b/f I fly off to visit my good friend Sunny!!! Yay, me!)
Kids slept in yest. morn. (as a result of their active waterpark day + going to the gym w/me at 6:45 & getting to bed an hour later than normal), and, after putzing around for about 20 min., I put cinnamon rolls in the oven for them. Just as I was handing a plate to D, H calls, kids talk to him for a few in the other room &, back to me, asks if kids can be ready in 1/2 hr for him to p/u. I said (nicely) they were just starting b'fast, were still in pj's & had slept in.
H: "So, they can't be ready in 1/2 hr?" (stern boss is back - which, I admit, hit my button right off)
Me:"No, J. They can't. There's no need to start the morning rushing around, is there? Do you HAVE TO hve them in 1/2 hr?"
H: "Well, my mom's here, and they'll want to see her."
Me: "Fine. I'll get them to wolf their b'fast down, rush thru showers & dressing, pack what they need to, & I'll have them waiting in the driveway for you in 1/2 hr. How's that?"
H:[pregnant pause & big sigh] "I'll be there in an hr. How's that? Can they be ready then?"
Me: "Yes. 10 is fine."
H: "Okay. I'll be there then."
[and then, not to end it there!]
H: "And what's this that D wants to stay w/you & have lunch w/you & [Friend-T}?"
W: I don't know. She mentioned it yest. when I said [Friend-T] was coming over for lunch, but I reminded her your mom would be here then. You know she likes [Friend-T] & likes doing girlie things w/me.
H: Well, I think it's pretty suspicious that she said that.
Me: Why? You think I put her up to it? Oh, yeah, that's right. I forget. I WOULD do that. Whatever, J."
H: Yeah, whatever.
So, ewwwww, I know. I know. BUT he just.... Sigh. I'll do better. Promise.
So, Friend-T & I have a lovely lunch (very girlie) & we're sitting on the couch talking & I hear the garage door open. Yup! A min. later H knocks at the door, I open it, and he sayd he needs to get S's PS2, proceeds to open the t.v. cabinet & gather up all the parts & cords & controllers & stuff. All silently except for a brief "Hi [Friend-T}." After a min. I made a comment about kids & his mom playing or something. He gave a short answer. (Friend-T is lookingat me w/raised eyebrows). Then H madea comment about the outside sprinklers still needing fixed (I guess sayuing he'll get to it soon) & he was gone. Friend-T said "I thought you said things were better and more friendly btwn you two?" She said H was obviuosly angry, was yanking on cords & all to show his anger. I said "Welcome to my life."
Haven't talked to him since then.
Still,
My H also accuses me of putting bad things in the girls mind about him. I remind him all of this was his doings all by his lonesome. Acusses me of the reason the girls dont call him anymore. I again remind him that he never answers the phone when he sees its my number ( even though I stopped calling him at all a long time ago).
Hey can you check out my latest new activites & give me some insight? My H also will not file even though I signed the agreement papers months ago.
This morning he IM me about what r we going to do regarding the house about to go into foreclosure.And that he will have to sellthe house if he does not move back in????before he looses it all together!! Says i dont care about his rpombelms. I said its my promblem too. WHy on earth did I try to apply for a loan (got denied) I dont make he $ he does,but he also got denied. I told him to take OW up on her lending offer, but (assuming) if he does want back in the house he thinks he better not get any $ from her.
I keep saying, "I have to make a list of them" and I WILL. There are many, some tiny, some huge, most (probably all) life-changing for the better. I AM thankful.
This is a FANTASTIC idea. Have you started?
So, ewwwww, I know. I know. BUT he just.... Sigh. I'll do better. Promise.
Don't blame you one bit. Look, if he's gonna act like a jack@ss, I don't think you can just sit there and take it. He will just keep running over you, IMO. Having said that, the more calm, cool, collected (read: less emotional), mature and adult like you can be, the better. At some point he wil realize he is acting like a child and you are acting like an adult. May take a while, but my 2 cents. And you know that. Just didn't want to see you roll over and take the abuse. (Not that you would.)
Hang in there!
Nomo
So I'm on my way to the gym, thinking about what I posted earlier about interaction w/H from yest. & how he was Angry H again in the afternoon, and I HAD FORGOTTEN A KEY THING! Duh! Does this make a diff., ya think?
So, H & his mom come over to p/u the kids at 10. When his mom is done hugging on the kids, we hug, too & she says, "It's nice to see you. It's been a while" and I said "me, too" or some such. All nice & friendly (strained on my part, tho didn't think it showed horribly). Haven't seen or talked to her since she left 1/4/07 when she visited over Christmas/also first 30-days post-Bomb & H was supposed to move out the day after her visit ended.
All is pretty normal (H was quiet, but not unfriendly). Kids & g'mom are in D's room, & H & I are in the kitchen. Think he was making convo about his work but when I heard D say something about needing to feed her fish, I said, "Oh, wait!" to H and "Sorry, but that reminds me. D needs to take her fishtank w/her. I'm going to be gone from Sat. thru Wed. next week, and won't be able to feed her." H only says "Oh, Okay" and he goes into D's room & gets the tank unplugged (We're talking about how the filter turns off by itself sometimes, & he says prolly b/c it's lost "prime" or some such [ie., the water gets lower than it should be - I know now] - Again, casual & not un-friendly.-- 'Course his mom was in the room.) He takes the tank to the living room & kids are gathering up what they need to go. I'm kissing kids & saying "Unless I see you tomorrow, I'll call you from where I'm at, and you can call me, too." G'mom says (picture soft-spoken Southern drawl woman here), "Well, I'll see you soon, J." "No, actually, I'm gonna be away. I leave Sat. and I think I get back the night before you leave." and a little talk about her leaving on Wed. instead of Thurs. & me getting back on Wed. (obviously from the same airport, but we didn't talk about our times at all. Wouldn't it be a hoot if we were there at the same time. Wouldn't it be a bigger hoot if H had offered to pick me up from the airport?! lol) I also say (to H), "The kids can call me, and I'll call them, too." He either nods or responds minimally, I think. Anyway, in another min. or so, all left. And THAT was the last I saw him b/f he returned ANGRY for the PS2.
I also told him (this was the day before's convo, when we were in 'nice' mode) that his mom & kids could come over to play at the house since I knew they said there wasn't alot to do at the apt. (This is opp. to what I said at the I've-got-a-GF convo the wk before where I set boundaries & one of them was that he/kids didn't need to come in my house unless I was there.) I think he just said "Okay" (noncommittal, really). But I put it out there as an offering.
Is he upset that I'm going away and he doesn't know where, why, with whom? (cuz for sure the kids only know that I'm flying somewhere to get away for a bit & stay w/a friend. I MIGHT have said 'girlfriend' at some point, but am not sure now.)
Is he upset b/c I'm (obviously) spending money I "shouldn't" -while he is so "stressed" about finances (notwithstanding the new truck he just bought, the $100/mo DR/cable he now has [S tld me], the boutique purses, electronics, clothes & toys he's been buying the kids not to mention all the fun outings, plus maybe the plane tix he (ok, I'm assuming, but - really!) purchased for his GF to come visit and the $250 LESS/mo he's paying me/my cc?!
Okay that was a Vent.
Still --
I'd lay a wager that it's #A...going away and he doesn't know all the details....he's control man, right?
And if he knew the details........
have a wonderful time!!
L
I HAD FORGOTTEN A KEY THING! Duh! Does this make a diff., ya think?
A big difference!
And THAT was the last I saw him b/f he returned ANGRY for the PS2
That definitely had to do w/ why you got this, IMO, & it could be many reasons. My bet is that it's a combination of you going away, the money spent, his lack of control over you, etc.
As far as the money you should be spending & what he sees as proper, & what he spends, I don't think you're going to get a fair shake in his minds eye. It would be much more comforable to have you staying at home where he knows what you're up to & eating Mac & Cheese. His discomfort is pretty evident, me thinks.
Nomo's right, you had to stand up a bit there b/c he forced you to. All the DB skills work the best o/c, difficult to put in action when WAS is hostile however.
L&L,
Sunny
Hey still,
Don't blame you one bit. Look, if he's gonna act like a jack@ss, I don't think you can just sit there and take it. He will just keep running over you, IMO. Having said that, the more calm, cool, collected (read: less emotional), mature and adult like you can be, the better. At some point he wil realize he is acting like a child and you are acting like an adult. May take a while, but my 2 cents. And you know that. Just didn't want to see you roll over and take the abuse. (Not that you would.)
I think Nomo's right on here. The last few times my W got some 'tude with me (which btw she never would've done during our M) -- which was about 2 months ago -- I was very calm and didn't join the battle. I think I was more passive than you need to be with H, but it's been 2 months and no more blow ups or 'tude from W (except for the recent "what Wendy thing?" that she misunderstood -- but this was a very minor thing). Be strong, collected, and keep emotion at bay as you respond maturely and I'm sure H will see the light. It may take some time, but it should pay off and you will feel so much better about it and not be thinking "ewwwwwwwww!" afterwards .
Is he upset that I'm going away and he doesn't know where, why, with whom?
Could be that, or it could be the finances. Hard to say IMO. I strongly believe that even WASs don't like the idea of being replaced anymore than the LBSs do. Even if the WAS is in a new R, the pain of seeing themselves replaced is painful. So, could be that (though he has no idea if you are seeing anyone), or it could be the money sitch. Keep monitoring how H reacts to different sitchs and see if you can find a pattern.
BTW, awesome stuff with the newly acquired YMCA classes! Did you get any at the other YMCA yet? Sounds like your pilates is picking up momentum -- good for you!!! Oh, and have fun at sunny's (and tell her she now has an obligation to come to Orlando for the event)!
GD
Still,
hard to say what he is reacting to. Very much could be because he don't know any of the details of your trip. Me and H have been separated for 6 weeks now and it really bugs the H$ll out of me when he just says that "I got something to do" on this date so won't be able to watch the kids. It tears me up when I don't know who he will be w/ because I am assuming an OW of course. I of course don't let him see this and just say oh ok then leave and chain smoke about 5 cigs. This whole ordeal has caused both of us to go from hardly ever smoking at all to smoking around a pack of cigs a day.
I almost feel like an idiot journaling every little convo w/H, but, in the interests of not-forgetting (and since I prolly won't have much bb-time going in the next few days, lol), here's how an Interesting phone call from H went just now:
[I missed his call cuz I forgot the phone was in the bathroom}
H VM: Hey, D missed her dentist appointment today. Call me back, okay?
So I call him right back:
Me: You called me?
H: Yeah. D missed her dentist apptmt, but I'm on the phone w/the answering service so can I call you right back?
Me: [thinking, Why are you calling me?] Yeah, sure.
So he calls right back:
H: D's apptmt was today, right?
Me: Yes.
H: 12:30, right? [sigh] I just got [tied up, or crazy busy or something to that effect] and missed it.
Me: Oh.
H: Did they call to confirm it?
Me: Yes. They called yesterday. I told you yesterday. (I did NOT reiterate that I gave him the printed appointment sheet yesterday w/a sticky note from me saying if he or his mom [he had said she could do it earlier in the wk] couldn't take D, then call me & I could do it AND that we had talked about it as well!]
H: I know. . . I know! [frustrated w/himself] Did you say there's a fee for when you don't cancel b/f an apptmt?
Me: I think so. It's on the blue sheet we initial at every apptmnt & I don't even read it any more really, but I think there's a statement about that, yeah.
H: [big sigh] Well. . . I left them a message. We'll see. Guess it can be rescheduled for next week.
Me: [dead air for a bit] Okay.
H: So, you'r flying out tomorrow when? and you're coming back when? Wednesday?
Me: Yes. Wednesday.
H: And you're flying out when?
Me: Tomorrow.
H: Oh. And coming back Wednesday.
Me: Yes.
H: Okay.
[dead air]
H: Okay. Do you have anything for me? [This was his standard ques. when he would call every day pre Bomb & even for a bit aferwards - meaning, was there mail or phone calls or anything he needed to know about]
Me: Noooo. You DID get that call from your mom's friend this morn, right?
H: Yeah. [mom didn't have her cell on & her friend called me & asked for H's # to contact mom. I asked her for HER # to pass along & have H or his mom call her but she (little old lady) I guess didn't understand that & asked if I coudln't give out H's #, so I gave it to her] She asked for my number?
Me: Yeah. I tried to tell her you or your mom would call her back, but she really wanted to reach you, so. . .
H: Well. . . That's okay. [another sigh] I've just been swamped.
Me: Oh. Sorry.
H: No. It's okay. [pause] Well, is there anything else?
Me: No.
H: Okay, then. Later.
Weird.
Just journaling. . .
I don't mind you journaling every little convo w/ H, especially if we might have to go through Stillme withdrawal for a few days.
I found it quite amusing that in your last phone conversation w/ H he kept asking if you had anything else for him, which I am pretty sure could be translated as, "So, will you please tell me exactly where you are going and who you are going with so that I don't have to ask or wonder?"
And oh yes, the angry PS2 visit makes a lot more sense knowing that the "I'm going away for a few days" conversation happened right before that.
Have a great time on your trip! I just found out yesterday that my brother is driving out there this weekend to see my sister that lives there, so maybe y'all will run in to them!
You can't miss them, they look just like me, except my sister is blond now, which I believe is a state law in California.
You crack me up, Kat!
Thanks!
I almost feel like an idiot journaling every little convo w/H
If this makes you an idiot, then I'm afraid to ask what I am! (Mega-moron, maybe?
)
No. Not a moron, but you definately win the BB Wordy Contest!
j
He so badly wants to know where you are going and who with. Its tearing him up not to have that control, all those prods during that conversation.
Its another of those strange LBS/ WAS dynamics where the WAS expects to go off and do what they want with who ever they want but also wants to retains some control over the LBS.
My W does this and also the schedule rearrangement like "I cant have D saturday because I have been invited out" I am thinking thats cool but what if I had plans ? I fell back on the old saying "pick your battles wisely" and left it alone for now.I will get in early for Next Sat night whether I have something to do or not.
Have a great trip !
bump - since she's partying with Sunny!!!
Sunnyyyyyy! Where's that new bottle of wine? We finished the last one, girl!
Pace yourselves girls. I'd hate to see you blow all your fun in the first half of Still's trip.
We're waiting on you, No!
FROM STILLME on Sunny's puter:
Update & journalingSo, I arrive SD time around 1:30 (delayed flight) yest. At around 5pm, H calls & it goes to vm (o/c) & he says (- obviously to put a dent in my good time/pma since he still doesn't know where I am, who I'm w/ or why I'm gone really - & to let me know he's working on the 'financial's of the D)
"Hey. I can't find the 2006 tax returns and I need a copy. Can you call me back & let me know where they are?"Obviously, as soon as my plane left FL, he was at my house, snooping thru the file cabinets, looking for God knows what. . . and did he NOT expect that I woudl gather up ALL incriminating documents, including L & other notes, DB/DR etc. books, copies of my threads, charts on his work schedule, child-sharing time, income & expeses receipts, AND my desk blotter/calendar, and leave it at a Safe House outside our house [and not in my car either, which he most likely also searched].
I didn't call him back o/c.
Today I wanted to talk to my kids, and I call H around 8pm his time. He's all nice & friendly.
Me: Hey. I wanted to talk to the kids. Are they there?
H: No. I'm at X & Y's [Y is my British friend] dropping off some money for X. THe kids are at the house w/my mom. I can have them call you in about 10 min. Is that okay?
Me: That's fine. Thanks. Bye.
H: Oh, did you get my message yesterday? I can't find the 2006 tax return and need to make a copy of it.
Me: Yeah. . . That's going to have to wait until I get home.
H: Oh. . . . Okay.
Me: Well, have the kids call me when you can. Bye.
So I talked to kids and, tho D asked (again) where I was, I was teasingly mysterious (and I could hear H in the background so knew he was w/i earshot) but when she said she knew it was someplace that started w/an "S" b/c she'd heard me say it to someone else, I said
"No, I don't think I said it was an S-word." and she said
"I think you said, like, St. Petersburg. . .?" and I said it wasn't there. When we talked about saying our prayers when we each went to bed tonight, she wanted to know again WHERE I was. I said
"I just told you I'm not saying where." and she said
"No. I mean, are you in a hotel bed or a house bed?" and I said
"A house bed" (knowing, and ok w/this getting overheard/back to H).
THEN, about 30 min. later, H calls:
H: I don't want to intrude on your time away, but . . . Do you have a min?
Me: What do you need?
H: I want to try to figure out August's [child-sharing] schedule.
Me: J, I don't have my cal w/me, and this is not the time.
H: Well, I want to get this straightened out early and --
Me: No, J. I said I don't have my cal. We'll talk about it when I get back.
H: Well, just write down these dates then and get back to me --
Me: NO, J! I will not.
H: Why won't you at least write them down?
Me: Because I've already told you this is not the time. YOu don't listen to me or respect anything I have to say. YOu only want what you want, when you want it, and the way you want it done. Stop already!
H: What? Is this call being recorded? Why are you acting like this? Just write the dates down, so you know --
Me: No. Stop. I said no.
H: [and when he went into more insistant yukiness, I hung up on him]
It never stops. Man, it just burns him up to think I'm keeping secrets from him. Sheesh!
j
Hope you having fun at sunnys , Your poor H ! hes loosing control.
I say well done for standing up for yourself in the face of what is rather childish behaviour on his part.
Dave
from SILLME on Sunny's computer:Dave, don't you dare go feeling sorry for my "poor H"!!
If he's going to BE childish, let him be it by his self. He obviously needs a Time Out.
Talked to Friend-A late last night, and she mentioned that she'd received a phone call w/ "unknown" on the ID. She didn't pick it up, and they didn't leave a vm. Hmmmmm.
Hey still,
I agree with Dave -- H is losing control and grasping at whatever he can to regain at least some of it. I mean, wanting to talk about logistics and whatnot while you're obviously spending some time away and likely trying to enjoy yourself and have a break -- come on! He's trying to rain on your sunny day (no pun intended). I'm proud that you didn't like his childish antics get to you. However, I was wondering you told him that you can't talk to him when he's acting like this and
then hang up, or did you just hang up?
Ah, poor H!
GD
sunny,
When ya gonna post on your Friday night outing with H? The suspense is killing me...
GD
I've already had the 'boundaries' talk w/H about how he needs to stop doing or saying something the first time I tell him it's not okay, instead of pressing & insisting, etc. So, no, I guess I don't 'warn' him every time, but generally DO say, "If you dont' stop, I'm going to have to hang up". (Not that particular call, tho.)
Had WONDERFUL time in SD w/our girl Sunny! Y'all can imagine what a GREAT person she is! It was oddly weird how, just 10 min. after MY H called (about the tax return), HER H called about a guitar book he forgot at the house & NEEDED to return for. . . They appear to be very similar kinda guys. Oh well.
After the last (hang-up) convo w/H, I didn't call again until I was in the airport term. waiting on my plane today & just asked "May I talk to the kids?". He said he was on a tele-conf & could have them call me back, which they did.
Got home a little while ago, and emailed H. (I DO NOT want to get into the hour-long ugliness that was our July-scheduling discussion, so am trying to go by way of email for a change.)
Please email the list of the dates you need in August and I will look at them.
The kids have a counselor’s appointment tomorrow at 3pm. I will take them if you can’t/won’t.
j
His response:
You can take them, even though tomorrow is my day. I'll swap you tomorrow night for sunday if you want. I have to work anyway.
Dates for Aug: 1,2,10-12, 15,16, 17, 25,26,27,28,29,30,31.
I don't have much flexability with these dates, I have two weeks of training in Madison and the weekends are already scheduled out for work.
JH
My response:
25,26,27,28,29,30,31
NO.
this may take a while. . .
Still,
Hope your trip was relaxing and enjoyable despite the H convo. Great job sticking to your boundaries.
I think you are definitely throwing H for a loop. Hope this works for him to understand it is not all about him.
Oops, forgot to journal the VM H left after the (hang-up) Aug. scheduling convo. (which Nomo & Sunny have heard now a few times)
and done in a calm, reasonable, almost concilliatory voice (but insisting that I do what he wants, of course):
Hey listen. I'm not trying to be difficult & I'm not the one -- I'm not the one trying to do all this. I'm not saying this to -- I'm not trying to cause a fight. I've got some stuff in Aug. I've got some training coming up, and I at least need to get the wkeends scheduled. I've got some stuff that I can't move. I need to know about the wkends, so I can confirm and get it done. So if you could, just get back to me -- Think about the wkends at least & if you would, just get back to me, okay? I'm not trying to be difficult - or anyhthing, okay? I just -- Just let me know. I've got a work schedule that's not very flexible for August -- and I want to make it as easy as possible. I want to work this out. And it needs to happen before you get back. I'm not trying to be controlling! It's just the way -- the way it is right now. and I -- I mean, you're away, you khow, and I can't figure out, you know, -- I know what I need. I know what I need to do and I'm trying to be as considerate as possible ... So, if you can, get back to me. Bye.
And so, here's the latest 2 emails tonight. Prolly won't respond to him cuz I need to get to bed:
Me (10:35)
Child-sharing AS AGREED was to be every other weekend plus 2 nights each week. We had AGREED that neither of us would have them for week-long stretches. Your mom being here was an EXCEPTION. It WILL NOT BE the rule
-- no matter what your work schedule requires OF YOU.
If YOUR work schedule CAUSES ME to have them for that 17-24 stretch, that is not a "gift" and certainly not something to be reciprocated.
If you cannot establish YOUR PRECIDENCE because of your work schedule, that is not my problem.
If "working with you" means doing it however is best FOR YOU, NO. I will not. I will do what is best for my children, and that is NOT - as you are thinking - having them alternating weeks at a time.
And if you are ASKING ME to keep them tomorrow night for you because you have to work, ASK ME!
H (10:48)
I don't know what to say. Nothing pleases you, you do nothing but shout at me even in an Email.
I never agreed to "your" scheduling of every other weekend and two days during the week, it doesn't work, I told you that when you brought it up. I'm sorry I don't have a very schedule friendly job, but, it is what it is and I want to spend the time that I can with Alec and Jillian. I ask you, will you please work with me on August since part of it got thrown on me last minute. I just want to work out equal time with you.
Will you swap Thursday for Sunday?
J
For the record, WE agreed to the every other wkend + 2 nights/wk when he sat at my table (late-March/early-April?) & cried & said he missed the kids & would I work on child-sharing, and I said "Of course, you do. What do you want?" and HE SAID it. WE also agreed he would not accumulate "his" days & roll them together into long stretches. HE has mentioned sev. times that an alternating-weekly schedule would probably work out best, and I've said NO (Haven't told him, but my L as well as C says this is particularly not good for the kids either).
Yeah, cliffy, H is "looped". Thing is, he's making me crazy as well.
Hey still,
Glad you made it back home safe! Sounded like you and sunny (and Nomo) had some good times. Hope you got the break you needed!
Sounds like H remembers what he wants to remember, eh -- selective memory I guess they call it!
HE has mentioned sev. times that an alternating-weekly schedule would probably work out best, and I've said NO (Haven't told him, but my L as well as C says this is particularly not good for the kids either).
Word for word as it relates to my sitch! W asked for that same schedule several months ago and I told her a) I didn't want to be away from them for that long at a time, and b) my C said that such a schedule wasn't in the best interest of the kids (her stepmom told her the same thing too). We've decided on a pretty good schedule now. I will have the kids Wednesday and Thursday one week, then Wednesday thru Monday morning the next week. Wife will have them Monday and Tuesday one week, then Friday thru Wednesday morning the next week. I personally like that scheduling idea the best of all we've kicked around, and I think she does too. It's hard to visualize when written down like this, but hopefully you can see what it looks like.
Hope H gets a reality check soon about scheduling dilemmas. Sorry, bro -- that's what happens when you choose to break up your family!
GD
Oops, damm, forgot to include these 2 emails from H that fit in between the others above:
H (9:32): I'm already giving you the 16 days, - can't move the training. And don't raise your voice at me "NO". Can you please work with me on this?
H (9:33): You'll have them the same stretch, 17-24.
Interesting how, no matter how firm, ugly or controlling I get, H gets, well, NOT!
GD/Still,
Can either of you recommend any resources regarding splitting time with kids? I have been thinking alternating weeks, but both your comments give me pause. What's the reasoning behind it not being good for the kids to be a week with each parent? I would say, that knowing my W like I do, we would almost certainly have dinner or some sort of interaction with our girls during the "others'" week.
I hope it doesn't get to this point, but I find that doing a little thinking gives me a feeling of control over the situation.
Thanks,
BD
Morning Still,
I'm glad you had some time here before having to tackle the child scheduling difficulties that are all too real in the world of a split home.
Out of all of it;the OP, the financials, the clumsy & stressful interactions between the spouses, the coming to agreement on the kids is the hardest I believe, for the very reason that you're forced to do something that by it's nature is not the best choice for them.
There really is not much room for creating a sitch where everyone is pleased.
Add to that being told to get them for as much time as possible by a L & jot down everything, & it can become a challange to say the least.
That is why it's best o/c to aim for an intact family if at all possible. We know all this & that's why we're here, yes?
As much as you can, it's best to remain firm, yet soft in the delivery. Very difficult to do. In fact, my weakest spot & where my H goes 1st if I'm becoming too independant.
It does settle down after a while, just doesn't get to perfect in any sense of the word.
So hang in there J. Calmly remind H of your agreement & see if you can work out something that works for you both w/out giving it all away.
L&L,
Sunny
J--
I have been too deep in my own mess, and just crawled out recently. Sounds like your rollercoaster keeps rushing back down after even the littlest of climbs.
So glad to hear that you were able to get away with some of our friends :0) I am really looking forward to our weekend. And your P classes sound great.
I just re-read a section in DB about how we get stuck with the first impression that we have about a sitch, and rarely consider all of the possibilities. I think that is especially true for our WAS's. They don't get how we could possibly disagree with them! And your H is prone to temper tantrums. Mine sulks and avoids / hides (remember the little kid who hides in the kitchen cabinet in A Christmas Story?) I guess at least you knew there was a problem, right?
Were you the one who said that you were getting bored with the whole sitch? Cause that's where I think I am today.
Pitch Dark.
Two words: Restraining Order.
I feel like such trailer trash.
more. . . later.
j
(((j)))
Whats happened ? whos issued the order you or H?
Dave
What the . . . . ?
(((((j)))))
Call if you need to.
Nomo
((((still))))
Hope you're okay, still. Post what's going on when you can.
GD
Just checked in........{{{{{J}}}}}
Sunny
Still I haven't checked in for awhile and I'm sorry - but saw your latest post. Are you OK?? Thinking of you.
Egads. Hope all is well. Small attempt at humor. My Dad actually lives in a trailer (as does half the population of Louisiana, I think). I always tell him I'm happy to visit, but if it starts clouding up, I'm outa there. I don't want to be on the 10 o'clock news, "Well, it sounded laik a frait traiiin. I luked outside, and muh dawg wuz flyin' thru thu air. And then i seen muh wife. That wuz sad, but I rilly luved that dawg."
Anyway, hope all is well.
BD
Thanks all. 3hr 15min until Day From Hell is over. Had a few long talks w/friends, plus my C session (What is the frggin' coincidence that ALL these awful ugly sitch events happen on the DAY OF my C sessions?!), and the most ugly crying imaginable (C said she'd never seen me like that, even at first session.) Am better, and will be even better tomorrow, and hte next day, and the next. Dark. Like a cave.
This morn. I sent email to H:
I will be at [gym] from 10-11; home at 11:15.
I have an appointment at noon.
Please either take the kids to the KiddieGym, or have them at the house by 11:30.
If these are not possible, I will come back from my appointment to pick them up before taking them to the C at 3.
Taught P session. H called as I was leaving the gym; said kids & he were at the house & he wanted to talk about August issue. I said I was already running late for the noon apptmt [w/C] & could not start -or even DO - that convo w/him. He got mad & hung up on me. When I got home, he was standing in my driveway mad as he!l; started the August-issue convo. anyway, demanding I agree. I walked into the house, he followed. I went into my bedroom; he followed. I slammed the bathroom door shut (screeching!!! Go away. Go away. Go AWAY!!!) & he stood on the other side yelling at me while I changed into jeans in my closet. I soooo lost it. I have NEVER screamed at anyone in my life! My throat is raw from screeching like the worst Jerry Springer guest. I knew his buttons, and I pushed the "deny his kids" one (When he demanded to know if it was my intention to keep the kids from him when I knew his job required him to travel so much [regarding the 7days straight he wanted - again] & I said he didn't DESERVE his kids]. So he called me a F'ing C-word. We were at the foyer, standing toe to toe. Of course I wasn't backing down when he bowed up to me pointing his index fingers inches away from my face. I said something (else) nasty & he then balled his 2 fists up (still inches from my face) & kind of bobbed them like he was considering hitting me w/them. I taunted him about wanting to hit me & brought my arms/hands up on the inside of his fists to push them away (to the side) & of course he pushed back & somehow his fist hit my cheekbone. No, he did not TRY to hit me, but it happened. I screamed that he'd hit me. He said he hadn't. Blah, blah, blah. He left w/more threats from me. Honestly, I never understood the "I couldn't stop myself from doing/saying" mentality before, but now I know.
I got the kids into the car & we drove to the C with not a single word spoken for 15 min. At one point, D said, "Oh, look! Horsies!" and S had his face in his DS game. I couldt' unclench my jaw.
At C I started by saying I was angrier than I've EVER been in my whole life. I HATED H. I hated myself. And I cried like she's never seen before.
And I STILL don't feel any differently.
And - But I STILL have that "YOu can't give up" - UN-FRIGGIN-WELCOME - feeling in my - What? - heart? Soul? !!! Sh!TTT!!!!!
I should have known it would come to this. H has escalated his Punishments for the past months. He "HATES" me, he has contempt for me, I have no "worth" to him and certainly deserve no respect, he believes I deserve all he dishes out and then some. He will not accept or honor any boundaries I set; is all about himself. . . Of COURSE it was gonna get violent. Didn't I say his dad was a wife-beater? Didn't I KNOW he was associating me w/his dad? Haven't I seen him getting angrier & angrier, more out of control and not caring? Esp. as I continued to act As If or the whole Duck's Back sh!t, he had to increase the Ugliness to get a reaction from me. Well, he got one.
So, C talked about (again) setting boundaries and, if he can't/won't honor them, the consequences or actions of them (including restraining order [No, I didn't get one - yet], calling the cops, & filing for Legal Sep. myself. Nothing I didn't already know. No personal contact; everything thru vm, email or txt [don't have]. When (not IF) H gets angry he can't reach me, that's his problem. Leave the house if he comes over (easier said than done), etc. She suggested I schedule Mediation (tho I'm still not going to do this "for" H) or email H that I will only talk to his L or Mediator from now on. Totally Dark. Said there is no chance for any (HA!) friendly interactions, at least for a (long) while. Sh!T!!
H called once when I was w/C (no vm left), again 2 hrs later (no vm & I was afraid he might come to the house, so kids & I went to the grocery store for a while), and again as I made dinner. This time his vm said only "I have your [bi-monthly] check & am coming by to drop it off. I'll leave it on the transom of the boat [in the garage] if you're not home. And I also want to see the kids or talk to them." [See a bit MORE of control here? I'm not even sure the check was DUE this week! I think he just gave me one days before I left for SD last week! Also, he JUST had the kids for 7nights & had JUST brought them to me that morning. Was he friggin' MISSING THEM already, ya think?) Within 5 min. he's KNOCKING AT THE FRONT DOOR! S yells out "It's daddy" and I told kids to go to S's room & close the door (loud enough for H to hear no doubt). Opened the door. H glares at me (Is he checking for bruises ya think?), thrusts the check at me then angrily stomps away. I slam the door.
I am so friggin' tired.
Friend-S called from TX & we spoke for over an hr. Interestingly, when I tried to call her from the porch of C's office while kids were w/her I got her (friend-S's) H (my H's good friend Friend-C) & he (a VERY close-mouthed kind of guy - def. the strong silent macho type) wanted to talk & listen & help. I was so embarrassed to tell him about what had gone on! He didn't take sides, but kept repeating how it's just so unreal for H & I to be in this sitch - that, out of anyone else he knew - we would have been the last ones to go thru this or to ACT this way thru it. That H is purely not "himself" and has demons driving him that won't go away unless/until H addresses them. Exactly how I feel.
Trying to get back to normal. D & I made cookies a little while ago & she's waiting in bed for me to reach her some books. S is staying up watching t.v. C said they will be fine (Think she talked to them about the H/OW stuff as well as today. God, that seems a hundred years ago.) I apologized to kids for the yelling & ugliness; said I was sorry they had to hear it; that it wasn't right to be that mad at someone and, if I couldn't control myself, then I was to NOT be around that person and I was gonna try so extra very hard to be better.
I remember asking C if H's "emotional breakthru" [or breakdown or whatever] - when he for the first time slammed his fist on the dining table & cried & cussed & vented a few months ago meant anything. She said only "Maybe". Guess it was the dam breaking. And I'm in its path.
So I've never had my heart broken; never had anyone close to me die; never experienced trauma or drama or chaos in my life. Said the reason I don't look my age is b/c I had no great strssors to deal w/. Well, guess what? I look like [censored] now and my life is in the toilet.
I'm so proud of you hon for holding it together for your kids. Despite your frustration, you are doing well given H's idiotic behavior pushing you and taunting you...I admire you.
I am praying for you and your kids...I don't pray for your H ~ I think he's already in Hell.
Oh, {{{{{{{J}}}}}}}} {{{{{{{{J}}}}}}}}}} {{{{{{{{J}}}}}}}}}}}
Call me tonight if you want 203-994-9923
I am so glad that you were able to get a friend on the phone before, but really, call any time, day or night. I'm not working until the end of August, so I'll be around. And that you were able to get right to the C (my bad days are also C days--Tuesday).
I have actually started to think more and more about God through this whole mess...I haven't practiced my faith well, or felt it. But there is no one else left to ask for help. I am going to ask for help for you, your kids, and guidance for your H tonight. Please know that you are cared for by so many, who have never even met you face-to-face. But you shine through to all of us...
Deep breaths...
Donna
(((Stillme)))
I am so sorry.
I'm not sure what to say but that your life is not in the toilet, not does it have to be there. Your H is the one choosing to put HIS life in the toilet, and he is trying to pull you down w/ him, but you know you don't have to go there too. You have an amazing ability to make your life great. I know you are probably not "feeling" that today, but it is true. It is unfortunate that your H is not choosing currently to join you on your wonderful journey, but that is his choice, not yours.
Take care, Still.
(((((Stillme)))))
I am SO SO sorry.
Physical abuse is one line I swore I would never ever allow to be crossed with me and I cannot even imagine having it happen.
I know that anger - I've only had it happen once ever, too, but it is intense. I'm glad you got it out, though.
We're here for you.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. No words of wisdom, I'll just say that no one deserves to be treated like your H treated you -- and that it's not your fault. He chose to lose control. You aren't to blame.
I don't pray, and I prayed for you.
Best,
BD
OMG, you guys are --
Thanks.
But don't admire me.
This is not the time to be self-depreciative. Take it all in and get your strength back. You are a good person. This was NOT YOUR FAULT.
OK? THIS WAS NOT YOUR FAULT. I hear it in how you talked to the children afterwards.
His temper tantrums are NOT YOUR FAULT.
Breathe...
Hey Pal Stilly,
I thought, & actually maybe you also did, that something was coming. It has been building steadily for a while now & the tension was bound to come out. It's unfortunate it came out in the way it did & seemed to spiral out of control.
I had a similar incident with S15's father in the middle of the street reminisant of the worst kind of behavior you see on those shows w/ awful language on both parts. I think it was shortly thereafter that we turned a corner & it started towards a positive relationship. Like we were both so bottled up with stress & frustration that it had to go somewhere & once it was released it calmed us. Maybe it will work that way for you also.
Yes, it will be another day soon. You have been doing the best you can in this very difficult situation. We all do things we might have done differently later. You're a beautiful intelligent women Still.
"The world is round and the place which may seem like the end may also be only the beginning."
My bet is that his approach will be a different one tomorrow (let's hope the H@ll so)as will be yours.
Onward & Upward ((((J))))
Sunny
Still
Dont beat yourself up over any of this. Right now, just get some rest so you can be strong for you kids and deal w/ Mr. Wonderful when you have to.
Good night
Sheriff was just here to serve ME w/Twemp. Injunction because "I am afraid to be alone with her" and that I must have slapped myself in my "wild swinging". Got to go to Court next Friday. Yippee.
Oh, Lord.
(((still)))
Still,
I know you know this, but as soon as you can try to get control of all the emotions you are undoubtedly (and understandably) feeling - anger, hurt, embarrassment, betrayal, etc. - so you can think clearly. You know that you cannot control H, you can only control you. In other words, you cannot control what he does, only how you react to it. It was important to admit that you did some things and made some choices to exacerbate the situation (eg, pushed buttons). I have no doubt I would have as well. And what has happened, has happened, so beyond analyzing it so you can learn and grow from it, let it go. But as soon as you are thinking clearly and calmly (now? later tonight? tomorrow?), decide how you want to handle things from this point forward. Decide how you want to handle things for yourself and your kids, so that when you reflect back on it later you will have no regrets. And then resolve to do it that way. Only you can decide what the right answer is for you. But you are a strong person, and once you have a clear picture of what you want to do with the things you control, I have no doubt you will achieve it.
Hugs,
Nomo
I'm sorry Still....
"I am afraid to be alone with her"
Puhleeaase....Mr. 6'2" Blackbelt afraid of 5'2" Pilates instructor. That's so pathetic it's beyond words.
Actually, D^ck comes to mind.
Try & get some rest.
We're here for you,
Sunny
Still
Although I am still relatively new to this group, big hugs from me. I am going to pray for you as well.
The sun will come up tomorrow, and it will look brighter.
As Nomo says, get centered so you can make the best decisions about your next steps.
CVA
(((j)))
He is using "the best defence is an offence" tactic on you.
Do not buy into it, I am so sorry it has got to this , you need to present yourself as the calm sane person through this . Stick to the facts keep emotions at bay and you will prevail.
And Sunny is right , thats pathetic. This man had better be prepared to walk three miles over broken glass just to have a shot at being part of your life again . One day he will wake up and have to face this stuff.
Take care my friend
Dave
Thanks (again) all my friends. You don't even want to k now what all is in the 3 pg Reason for Seeking Injunction (ie., "Petitioner is the victim of an act of domestic violence or has reasonable cause to believe that he is in imminent danger of becoming the ...") GAG! Lot of BS, lots of C[his]A - but he's forgotten who is documentarian is here. I am drafting a time-line scenerio (supported by cell records, both my & kids discussions w/C today, my phone call to HIS friend-C during kids' session, and w/ my friend-S (C's wife) this eve. Don't think I will not present the case exactly how it needs to be - and that H's Cover His Azz tactics will be seen for wht they are. He says, "I was shocked that she was doign this, as I have never sen her become violent, ever. In the 13 years I have know her, I have never seen her become violent." Yeah, and why is that, do you think? Maybe this list of phone calls l& stops by the house, ugliness & pure evil is the reason?
"I am currently in the process of filing for divorce and I have lived in apartments very close to the home since March, 2007. J does not agree with this and is very angry with me because I have left her." BS. And that is supported by what? Gee, journalling IS a plus, huh? Let me go back & pull my records.
Gonna be a long night I guess. But I am okay. Thanks!
You know what, kick his tuckus, just don't become someone you're not to do it. Some Jui Jitsu black belt if he's afraid of you. More control, it seems.
This is easy from the outside looking in, but again, not your fault. You pushed one button, but he confronted you and stalked you through the house. As a good foot taller than you, I would imagine that was intimidating.
I'm sorry for your kids. Try to protect them as much as you can. Again, not your fault, but you may have to take the burden of doing what's best for them because your H is an immature ass (at least for now).
Best wishes,
BD
You know what, kick his tuckus, just don't become someone you're not to do it. Some Jui Jitsu black belt if he's afraid of you. More control, it seems.
This is easy from the outside looking in, but again, not your fault. You pushed one button, but he confronted you and stalked you through the house. As a good foot taller than you, I would imagine that was intimidating.
I'm sorry for your kids. Try to protect them as much as you can. Again, not your fault, but you may have to take the burden of doing what's best for them because your H is an immature ass (at least for now).
Best wishes,
BD
Still,
Did Imiss something? I'm confused.
"Petitioner is the victim of an act of domestic violence or has reasonable cause to believe that he is in imminent danger of becoming the ..."
He says, "I was shocked that she was doign this, as I have never sen her become violent, ever. In the 13 years I have know her, I have never seen her become violent." Yeah, and why is that, do you think? Maybe this list of phone calls l& stops by the house, ugliness & pure evil is the reason?
Did you do something "violent?" I thought his fist hit your face (even if inadvertantly).
Are you going to engage a lawyer for the hearing? Or do you even plan to contest it? What does it purport to restrain you from or to force you to do? If it is to stay away from him, do you care? Maybe it is enough to state on the record that you dispute his version of the facts, but you don't intend to be anywhere near him. (Curious though about what effect, if any, that would have on any future proceedings, so I'd consult your D atty at least.) If it is an effort to force you to give him access to the kids or something, that would be different for sure. Finally, you and your C discussed getting a Restraining Order against him. Maybe you can seek that as part of this proceeding.
Sorry again,
Nomo
Nope. You didn't miss anything. Yes, it was surely HIS fist that hit MY face - tho his BS statment says he only "raised my hands in a defensive position to prevent her from striking me. She slapped wildly at me but did not make contact with anything other than my hands and forearms." and "I had not touched her, she must have slapped herself or hit herself while she was slapping at me." Increduous is one word I could use for this. There was simply NO contct made at all except for his fist/my face. I NEVER slapped at him; never touched any part of him at all. BS. He cannot even remember the sequence, or the truth.
HE IS SEEKING TEMPORARY CUSTODY & wants to allow me "50% visitation on a month by month basis until a full visitation agreement can be worked out in the divorce. Based on my work schedule." !!!
Sonofabitch!
He is trying to get a pre-emptive strike in since he surely assumed I would be filing against him (as the last thing I said to him was that he had really f'ed himself up now). He has filled his statement w/ "I'm the only one thinking of the kids" stuff plus some out-&-out bs about how he came back into the house to hug the kids & tell them he never hit me which is just not true!
Yes, of course, I will see a L.
The injunction is to restrain me from going w/i 500' of H's residence [I told Sheriff I don't even know where he lives in the apts across the street; I don't care & have never asked. And H listed his address as "confidential" in the papers. D*ck.]; going to Petitioner's place of employment [Told Sheriff he works in a security-clearanced section of [hospital cancer ward!]; telephoning, emailing or otherwise contacting him [I gave Sheriff' the thumbs-up sign & said "Yeah, been working on that! Will this stop HIS constant calls & stopping by MY house?"]; defacing or destroying H's personal property [tho I wonder if rolling his friggin' pretty red boat into the road with a "Free" sign on it & going away for a few hours counts...] Oh, I also cannot commit any violence against him, nor apparently hire anyone to do it for me. (bummer)
Sheriff said that if H came to MY house, I was in violation of the order if I didn't leave. Also, if H came to the gym where I worked, that I would be in violation. I said, respectfully, BS. (Tho, poor guy - he seemed real young & pretty confused about my calmness & the way I was taking it all. I was on the phone w/BFF when I opened the door to him & said to her "Oh! It looks like J is having ME served first! Now, I wonder how he tweaked the fact that it was MY face that got hit?"
BFF is coming to stay tomorrow/weekend. Sat is S's jj class. . . .
What a lot of BS , I was not a half a world away I would come around and kick his butt for you. But then I would probably get my butt kicked
Anyway you have the right idea , you have the records and you need to stay calm and factual through this.
He realy has thrown his toys of the cot though !
Again stay strong and dont buy into this at all. We dont want to see on next seasons Jerry Springer !
This fight has got dirty , your job is to stay squeaky clean , truth and Justice will prevail ( its the american ( & Kiwi) way)
Dave
Thanks Dave!
It's 4am here & I'm still typing. Just finished compiling all the kid-sharing dates agreed on (plus extended or cut short) b/c of H's job & which I always accommodated.
Am starting on a list of all "Petitioner's" phone calls/stopping by & ugliness in the past, oh, where shall I start? Week? Month? Longer?
I'm trying not to consider too much the fact that, with one phone call to H's jj instructor (ex-friend now o/c when he hears about this!), H will have his butt handed to him on a platter, and his pride to boot. I'm thinking I'm gonna have to tell him so he (and studio owner) can advise me if H's in the studio Sat a.m. when I need to bring S to class. Sheesh! What I wouldn't give to kick his azz myself! (As I told Nomo, H's now had surgery on BOTH his knees. One good kick, and the mighty will fall.)
Stillme, I am so sorry you are going through this.
((((j))))
I cant even have imagined your sitch getting so ugly , but it happens and its not your doing , he has pushed so hard towards this in everything he has done over the last while.
I wish someone could drag him aside and wake him up to the the fact that he has the most wonderful caring person at home for him if only he could see that.
I have followed your sitch for a while and you have put your heart and soul into this and its just tragic for your H that he cant see this. Its his loss .
Now try and get some sleep !
Dave
No sleep, but many thanks.
j
I am realy thinking of you tonight you are not alone !
J, I hope you finally crashed. When is your friend coming over? Is the court date today or next Friday?
His desperation and self-loathing have made him crazy. When you get to court with your documentation, maybe they can consider anger management classes, parenting classes (since he did all of this with the kids in the house), or some other mandatory therapy. Mention your participation on this site, too, and how you have been trying to SAVE the marriage.
I know that in CT, there are motions that can be filed while a legal sep or D is pending (not sure if you are planning that route), or you can get a restraining order yourself, so you won't have to leave the house or worry about him showing up at work.
What a mess--I am SO sorry! Hang in there, {{{J}}}
Thanks, Donna. No, no sleep. Still typing.
I'll have to call bff & see when she's coming. I think she said after Noon, but I can't remember now.
The court date is Fri. Aug.3. I have to find legal - something - today. I've got a private P.session to do at a friend's house at 10, and she has a son that does jj w/S & the kids are supposed to swim afterwards & stuff. I guess that will be good for them. Get them out of the house.
I've been going thru his Statement line by line & Admitting/Denying each statement (or part thereof) and it's just so OFF. H just doesn't remember how it really went, and is so obviously trying to paint a more innocent picture of himself...
There's even a part at the end where he said he "left immediately" when I told him to (after I had, according to him, on 2 sep. occasions "wildly slapped" at him) but that after leaving he came right back in the door, went to S's room where he hugged the kids & told them it wasn't true, that he hadn't hit me, that he would never do that; and then he said he went to my bedroom and asked me (yeah, asked!) to calm down & please talk to him rationally. He said "She kept shouting at me and demanding that I leave. [His writing is much larger & forceful here! and he said] I DID." I swear to God that when he passed thru the door, I reached over & locked it! And I went from there directly to S's room, opened the door, saw that they were sitting on the floor watching t.v., & told them to put their shoes on, we needed to leave, and they got right up & did just that. I already had the sandals I put on when I was in my closet changing into jeans, so I was ready. I picked up my purse from where I dropped it w/my gym bag in the living room; and we were out the door. This 'incident' all happened in about 10 min, and I was only about 10-15 min late for my C session! How is it possible he thinks he came back into the house & did all this?! That part where I was demanding he leave happened at the very first, when I went into the bathroom to get away from him! What is he thinking?
A Fruedian slip? He wrote, "I have never seen J act like this I am afraid for [crossed out & replaced with] to be alone with her."
C suggested I file for Legal Separation, too. That would/should keep me protected from him. She also suggested I call the police if he showed up here or at the gym. OMG I hate this!
Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts & prayers & for Dave ofr getting me thru the night.
j
Still-
There is a Women's Center in the city next to my town, and they were able to refer me to a L who consulted for free.
You can also go down to the court house and ask the clerk for info on filing your own paperwork for legal sep, attaching a motion about keeping him from the house, etc. I am going to go online for you and see if the forms are available from home...
Do you have InfoLine down there? 211 (instead of 911)?
That is a community referal service. The police station should have a number, as well. I would think that most commubnitites have these resources...
Keep me posted or call, hon. I just did this kind of paperwork (legal sep), and if I can be any help....
The L you consulted about D previously should be able to handle this (or someone in her office) or she should be able to recommend someone. Start there.
Nomo
This is the only on-line reference I could find for FL. You may be able to ask for court-ordered support and a visitation schedule at your hearing next week...
Let me know if you find a community resource...and stay strong (like we all know you can)...
{{{J}}}
I wish someone could drag him aside and wake him up to the the fact that he has the most wonderful caring person at home for him if only he could see that.
I wish someone would do that to all of our spouses.
Stillme what a jerk your H is being right now. I am so sorry. You're handling this remarkably well, I hope you can see that in between the bouts of emotion. (((stillme)))
Oh Still,
I wish I was closer & could give more support!
HE IS SEEKING TEMPORARY CUSTODY & wants to allow me "50% visitation on a month by month basis until a full visitation agreement can be worked out in the divorce. Based on my work schedule." !!!
This guy is blowing it beyond belief. The courts see it all & will place him immediately in the "throwing his toys from his crib" category, as Dave puts it. They recognize a pre-emptive strike when they see one, especially when it involves someone trying to gain the advantage with their children. It will be noted that he was attempting to change the way you had been sharing custody w/the kids & how he wanted to try & force you into a new arrangement.
You have plenty of documentation to support you & no worries regarding the fact that you have your children's best interest at heart always.
It's hard for me to read the injunction & can only imagine how it must be for you.
You are handling it well though & I have no doubt that you will prevail.
It's too bad that when a parent is a bully, the children take a hit also.
He might have a foot over you in height, but he evidently has taken temporarily(hopefully) leave of his senses & will be no match in the department where it counts, this isn't the jj studio.
Hang in there J & try & get some rest.
Sunny
Yes, took an hour nap & feel better. Got back in bed w/the phone and now it's outa juice & has to be re-charged. So many friends, both near & far, are coming to me, it's humbling. Here's a wave to my (lurker) TX Friend-B who keeps up with my "sitch" and knew when I needed a hug.
Legal Advocate (free) is on vaca til Monday; L I consulted w/2 mo ago is way too much $$, but did refer me to a local L who will consult for under $100 & give me a quote on attending the hearing w/me a/o filing papers for me. Most friends are encouraging me to file a cross-whatever, documenting MY take on the event and obtaining protection from H coming to MY house or the gym, or calling or emailing ME. (Seems weird that he still has all these rights, huh?) Some are confident I should just file for D & get out from under all this asap. I wish I could. I really do. I can't make a decision right now. I HATE H. It was CAKE to accept he didn't want me, didn't love me & was gonna D me. It was even pretty smooth when he said he had a OW. But this defiant, calculated, dangerous attack on me & what I hold most dear, my children, coupled with his overwhelming RAGE is a horrible thing to live with. My heart doesn't hurt any more, but my spirit (or something else in side me) is mortally wounded. I can accept he doesn't love me & wants a D; but I just don't understand this RAGE and his NOT leaving, wanting to make it hurt for as long & as deep as possible.
Was honestly doing better. It comes & goes. I'll be back later. Thanks, all, for your caring.
j
OK, Monday is not too far away. You may want to call the police station to report the version of your events, though, and see if you can get that counter-restraining order.
Have you spoken with the JJ instructor/friend? You may want to get there early, and let him deal with H if he shows up this weekend...
Try to get more rest...can you take the kids and visit someone for the weekend so you can do that without worry?
Hi J. Wanted to add some thoughts to Donna's post.
You may want to call the police station to report the version of your events, though
No need to rush into this. See or talk to a L first. This may not help, and may just make things worse. You can always do it later if needed, but I don't think it will get you anything you can't accomplish at the TRO hearing.
and see if you can get that counter-restraining order.
He doesn't have one a Restraining Order in place yet, does he?Just a petition or subpoena to make you show up for the hearing on Fri. 8/3, right? Assuming I am right, you can wait until the hearing to seek your TRO. And in any event, I'd consult with the L on Monday first.
Ok, just wanted to add my thoughts on those two points.
Later,
Nomo
Stillme,
I am so sorry. {{{{{J}}}}
I know you have it in you to regain the poise that brought you so far. Please try to refocus, think beyond this temporary ugliness, and take care of yourself.
SD
Nomo--
The police said that she can't be within X feet of her H, and that includes if he comes to the house (she has to leave) or the gym she teaches at...doesn't it sound like a restraining order?
I have no idea--you're the law guy, I teach art... :0(
I just don't want her to find herself in a bad, surprise sitch. Please help--I could be totally wrong!
Hi Donna. I don't really know either. Still will have to tell us if an order was issued or if its just a request for an order. I'd be surprised if H could get an order issued unilaterally like that without Still having had notice of a hearing and a chance to tell her side of the story. Still, fax or email the papers to me if you'd like.
Nomo
stillme,
i'm sorry to hear about the latest events. please keep your head up and think positive, nomo has a good thought, you can always consult with the l, but it is your call on if you want to move things forward.
i'll keep you in my prayers tonight.
Still
Nothing for me to say but prayers and hugs from CVA
(((j)))
I hope you are resting up from the drama of the last day or so. How are the kids ?
Remember calm and factual.
Dave