Shay's update: Trust and Faith - DivorceBusting.com

Divorcebusting.com

Shay's condensed saga:
M 18 yrs, D14, D12, D7...
2001 H drops bomb that he has a EA at work and we are not getting along for a long time- news to me
2002 H has PA for about 3 weeks, we go to counseling, I am devastated. H lives with his sister from Oct on. Lies and says he is not seeing OW while he makes up his mind
I work on me, run a marathon, drop 25 pounds and get into shape. I act as if and get a life although I am depressed. I dont tell the kids and try to pretend its all OK for them- not a very good actress on my part.
2003- I turn 40. H and I date. F finally tells OW he wants to be with me but I dont know it yet. H moves back in in the fall and we tiptoe our way through reconcilement.
2004 I catch him calling her again in April. He needs to talk to her and becomes obsessive about it.
He gives me his cell phone and promises to be honest and not call her. We go to Retrovaille with some positive changes.

Whew, when will it ever end??? I guess for right now we get along pretty well, we connect a little more everyday. We just got back from a 10 day trips to Florida and going next week to our lake house in TN with the whole gang.

I am thankful every day that we have another chance and am happier than I have been in years! However, I struggle every hour of every day with whether H is calling that tramp again. I dont quite know how to get off that kick or even what to do. I sense something is up but I could be wrong. I asked H on a scale of 1 to 10 how he was doing with this and he said about an 8. I have been really hurt, I have made R mistakes, I have heard H realize how much he hurt us and this made me feel better. Should I keep pursuing him about where he stands with this rediculous calling? He says he probably talked to OW 5 times all of last year. I think maybe the moving back thing stressed him out and gave him doubts. Retrouvaille was good at this juncture. We got some things in writing about our past and understood eachother prety well. Some healing did occur. I felt better after that than I have in a long time. I continue to take anti-D meds to even myself out. Some of you know I was pretty low. But ever the optimist even to the point of putting my head in the sand. H calls alot, tells me where he has been, sex is very good. He even said so

. Trust is a huge issue for me. How do I make it better???? This has been a long journey but one I think is worth it. Kids are great, they have lived through my despondant behavior, shutting down, not talking and sensing why. H once said he had no credability with anyone but the kids. I dont know if he realizes how hard it was to preserve this by not telling them about the details. I would love to hear anyone's views or comments - Have a great day
LOL
Shay

# 1

Hi Shay,

Glad to know you guys are doing pretty good.

Thanks Pam! Hope you are too.

I regret to say I am trying to catch up...

Hey Shay,

Good news, I have slowed down at least threads last me longer than a week now.

I am doing pretty well, house shopping and not sure what I want in a house.

Hi, girlfriend!

Good to "see" you again!
Sorry H still has unresolved issues about the OW

BUT - we all know it can take a really long time for things to die down.
Is there something you could ask him to do that would make you feel better? For me, it was my H sending OW a letter saying he didn't want her to contact him ever again. Mind you, he still dawdled over it even after he agreed to it - but once he finally did it, I felt much better.
I see it as a manifestation of the "one toe out the door" syndrome - just keeping the door to the marriage open a crack in case something better comes along. For my H, this was really important for him to understand - that this was tied up with a bigger issue of "longing" in his life - and with his fear of abandonment (therefore hedging his bets in case I dumped him).

Ellie

You crack me up Ellie

... doesnt this ring a bell !!

sometimes this keeps me sane!

I almost made him call her in front of me to make that announcement but he has told her that so many times b4...seemed kind of a waste of effort. Good to "see" you too. Well, I am leaving early today- going home to relax and run off the chili and spaghetti lunch...

Pam: good luck house hunting! Make it all yours!!

LOL
Shay

oops damn i dont know how to quote

your comment

and with his fear of abandonment (therefore hedging his bets in case I dumped him).

I am referring to.....

We are getting ready to go to the lake for a 5 day weekend. I have some really bad feelings about everything that has happened and they have recently surfaced. I cant figure out if they were caused by something- the only think I can think is that I "expect" H to call the OW since he has spoken to her every few months all of last year and recently in March. I am waiting for the ball to drop and keep thinking he is lying when I ask him. I have no reason other than that. No suspicious behavior. I am not happy that H now has a blackberry through work that everyone got that is at a certain level. It has a phone on it, which H just learned to use on Tuesday and he called me today on it. That means he now has a phone in his car again and I am afraid that will lead to the phone calls again. He also hasnt moved his cell phone over to the family bill and I still have that. Why wont he move it? Since April he was going to get his wedding ring resized and that hasnt happened. Too busy, took it one place and hated the lady there and afraid to leave it. Then says he will do it this week when I asked saying he was just thinking about it. He says it is a good outward sign to wear it and it makes me happy too. So, I dont know if I am being negative or what to do to fix it - or do nothing. Should I move the bill myself? I know he doesnt use it. I have it. Also, he had a phone card from before that I had to take. He admitted to using it before supposedly a while ago. I guess if we were better at communication he wouldnt need this outlet. I think we are getting better at that. Also, in one of our writing sessions he said he found it hard to talk to me about other women. It made him feel diminished like he was a bad person. He struggles with what is acceptable like noticing a woman and what is unacceptable- like ogling a woman. He is trying to figure out what is ok, says he "wants to tell me about women he sees but feels uncomfortable and why does he feel the need to tell me anyway?"

So, I am finishing up here at work:
goals:

dont bring out bad feelings by talking or nagging on vacation

OK this is a big enough goal to just about cover it!!

Shay

Quote:

So, I am finishing up here at work:
goals:

dont bring out bad feelings by talking or nagging on vacation

OK this is a big enough goal to just about cover it!!

Shay

Hi Shay,

Have a FUN vacation!!! Pretend he isn't your H that had A but a new person you are getting to know and just enjoy yourselves.

Shay,
You just hit the quote thing, then past between them...

Focus on the positives, ok? It doesn't matter what you do regarding any of those things. Either H calls OW or he doesn't. Act as if he won't. HAVE FUN.

Sage refers to those negative thoughts coming up when we are ready to face them. So, maybe it is all about you and not about H. Maybe you are just ready to face those fears.

You are a goddess.... stop thinking that he wants to call her. He is with you, this man that you want is with YOU. Okay?? Go there, instead.

Hi everyone,
Thanks HoldingOn for the wise words. I read your post right before I left for vacation and kept repeating the words "you are a goddess" and this really helps me get into my normal happy state of being to think this way. So....I had fun - I think H did too, he called from work yesterday saying he wanted to go back immediately. We are continuing the week starting tomorrow night. We did alot of boating and had friends down and went to the fireworks on the lake for a romantic boat cruise. So, I think for now I am not beating myself up and dont think he is calling anyone. He even asks me to go on errands to make me feel better - this used to stress me out and he would make calls on errands making silly runs to the store. That doesnt happen now anyway. He dropped off D7 last night at grandmas and took a while. I called my parents and they said he was in talking with them- so he then picked up something for me and came right home. So my mistrust was for nothing. We have been writing down our feeling to some difficult questions according to retrovaille- H is generally agreeable to this exercise. Last night I touched on this subject and he reassured me.

I find this interesting:

Quote:

Sage refers to those negative thoughts coming up when we are ready to face them. So, maybe it is all about you and not about H. Maybe you are just ready to face those fears.

I find this interesting and want to think on this further!! thanks for the ideas! (and I think I actually did the quote thing)

Pam- Thanks for the support

I hope everyone here has a loving peaceful day,

LOL
Shay

HOW TO REBUILD TRUST

1. Make a decision to love by trying to let go of the past. Stop obsessing about it.

2. Decide to forgive or be forgiven.

3. Show that the errant behavior is gone by changing behaviors. That means no more secrets.

4. Together, set specific goals.

5. Both of you must renew your commitment to your marriage and one another.

6. The wounded spouse must share their pain. The other must acknowledge the hurt caused by the devastating experience.

7. Listen completely to one another and with your heart, not just your head.

8. Be honest.

9. Avoid using words that can trigger conflict. Use non-blaming "I" statements and don't say always, must, never or should.

10. Take responsibility for your own actions and decisions.

11. Be open to seeking counseling to have a better insight into what caused the trust to be broken.

12. Remind one another that you each deserve open and honest answers to your questions about the affair or betrayal.

________________________________________________________

I am finding some great stuff and want to post it here to reread it...this one really resonates:

Hi Wonder,

Greetings from the Other Side. *smile* What your particular brand of WA is thinking I can�t tell you, but for the sake of argument, let�s try to imagine a typical WA (also known as Walkawayus vulgaris) Not an almost-WA, but someone who actually left their family for an OP and is currently living with him or her. To simplify pronounification, let�s assume the WA is a man. Our WA has a wife and 2.2 children. He left his family, say, three months ago, and the reality of real life with real OP is already starting to creep in (as opposed to fanasy life with fantasy OP). He is starting to miss his wife and his 2.2 children.

So far, so obvious. His LBW, being a smart cookie, has meanwhile found this site and is DBing. Our WA notices all the positive changes she has made, and that adds to this misery. Now, he is faced with two choices. He could go back to his family (obviously) or stay with OP. Now, the rusty wheels of the WA mind begin to turn. He�s already badly hurt his wife, and he knows it. She may choose to forgive him, but she may never really do it. Or even worse, she might become a WA herself at some point (and after all, who could blame her). So in his eyes, he�s already thoroughly discredited himself in front of her.

As for OP, he�s been telling her for months what a terrible, stale, sterile marriage he was in. How his wife didn�t understand him, how they were together only for the children. He was quite eloquent, because he believed it himself at the time. Now, how to convey to OP that the terrible marriage might not have been so terrible after all, that he is torn up inside, and that he�s even considering going back? A big blow to his self-esteem and pride, and like it or not, those two things play a big factor in most men�s decisions. Not to mention that OP is probably in love with him, and he'd have to hurt her feelings, too. As far as he�s concerned, in order to go back, he�d have to make a fool out of himself in front of not only one, but two women, accept that he's made a lot of mistakes and caused a lot of pain. So he stumbles on, refuses to make a decision, alternates between burst of anger, tenderness and despair, and subconsciously hopes that someone, please, make the decision for him.

Could it be like this?

Pen

Thanks Pen!!!!

Shay

hi Shay, I havent "met" you before but somehow stumbled onto your thread, and boy do the phone call issues ring a bell with me....something I deal with over and over again that continues to drive me right up the wall. I'll be checking in to see how you handle this.......I need all the ideas I can get. I'm going to paste your last entry re the "why" to my thread so I can refer to it....I hadnt seen this before, but it sure helps answer a big question in my mind.........
deb

Hi Deb,
thanks for posting - i guess we will figure this out! what is the big deal about cell phones? and what is so damn interesting?

anyway, i do best when i dont think about it. I read somewhere that your own ego causes you to beat yourself up and not allow yourself to forgive. I read a book called " I will never leave you" H liked it too. The author has been through it all and really lays out affairs in plain english. He said that an affair will never be a healthy relationship because they are based on dishonesty. I will have to refresh on this tonight. Very good stuff and H liked it too. One thing I dont get is that H is really all that sorry. He said he has to live with it the rest of his life, and a couple of times been really remorseful but i think he cant function with all the guilt and pain if he really let himself realize what he did. I guess he is in denial just to survive his own guilty feelings. Good luck Deb and one thing I keep thinking is that it is not my fault he chooses to hurt OR. I am not responsible for that and worrying about it makes it worse in that it makes it too hard for him to be with me if all it does is remind him of the pain of OR and the PA.
LOL
Shay

Shay,

My H and I also went to Retrouvaille!! Looking back it was during his EA/PA, so it ended up not being as beneficial. I do think we could always start to dialogue again and pick up where we left off. Do you go to the CORE meetings? We don't, but I would like to.

The phone thing is huge for me. I wish we could just throw our cell phones away!! I love what Pen wrote.

My H is definately waiting for me to make the decision. Everytime I tell him I am "done" H wakes up for a moment and then falls back into the "I don't know" phase.

Thanks for stopping by on my thread!

Nik

Nik,
I noticed that anytime I acted like, OK that is it, H would come running back, afraid he made a big mistake if he loses me. It is so hard to get there without really being "done". I remember walking out of a really bad counseling session where H said he wasnt feeling better and hadnt talked to OW in 3 weeks and wasnt feeling better and acted like a jerk, he called me immediately saying I was beautiful and all this stuff. I am still angry at how he acted and this was 2 yrs ago. H claims he doesnt want to see that counselor again because of how he acted. I still remember the MC saying "wives need to be cherished" and H with that stone face

. So I can relate to that.

Retrovaille was pretty good- very gruelling emotionally. We were pretty far down the path and coming back to reconcile when we went a few months ago. So in that respect we were a little better off. If we had gone earlier it would likely have been a waste of time. We have gone to 2 follow up sessions- they are decent. We missed 2 because of vacation. I feel bad about that. But we have great vacations this year

for a change

. I think the dialogue stuff helps me a little but I cry almost everytime

. Just alot of pent up stuff I guess.

Will I ever stop thinking about the PA? the deceit>? the hurt!!!! I have to get there and there must be a way. I think maybe the dialogue- ing will lessen the weight of all that.

We went to lake, H hurt his back, acting weird but really in lots of pain. He was almost in a panic. ME: I wondered if he was calling the XOW, kind of crazy since cell doesnt work there and the phones dont call long distance- so impossible really. It justs shows any time H is acting different I go into suspicious mode. I pulled it together and took care of him and iced his back down. Over all a great time- it is so nice to go on a family trip and actually have fun. It is funny how you dont appreciate it until you have been through the opposite!!!

Shay

Shay,

Glad you had a good vacation overall. The suspicion is such a knee jerk reaction. I do it all the time!

When there is another Retrouvaille in your area you can go to make up the sessions you missed. It is well worth it. If my H wakes up soon it would be nice to go to the CORE meetings 1x/month.

Say a prayer, I told H he needs to make a decision by the end of the month or I will. Not very DBing but after 2 yrs. I am ready for this roller coaster ride to be over.

Nik

Thanks Nik!
I had a minor setback on Friday with the dialogue thing - a contraversial topic and then I revisited it with H to see how he "felt" about it. He shutdown and I so Hate that

and he said he was telling himself he wasnt being attacked. And he definitely wasnt. Not a good drive to the lake- I was really upset the whole time. I dont know why I take this so hard but I keep thinking we will be able to address the PA and take it in stride as in be able to refer to it without a ton of pain around it. H keeps saying he feels bad about himself. I then start thinking its because he is calling the OW again. But I have no other reason to think that - no suspicious behavoir. We got a ton of work done at the lake- H kind of grouchy when he works and steered clear of getting blamed for anything related to his frustration- H is working very much on this anyway. As we drove home he said he "liked me and I was a good woman" kind of a funny thing but made me feel good

. Nothing else to report- as we drove back to Cincinnati, I just felt this weight fall on my shoulders- kind of reality of what has happened and I realize how much I hold on to. I have to focus on today- and communicating, living, smiling and connecting with my Ds and friends. This is a short list of goals I guess. have a great day everyone!

Good luck Nik! Hope you have what you want this time.

Shay

Shay,

It's so hard being in a R/M normally, and now with the negative baggage attatched it is soooo much harder.

One day at a time. I wish I was on the other side of what life is like 5 yrs. after the EA/PA, then I may have some wise words, but I'm not there yet.

From what I have read I think time is one of the best healers after an A.

Nik

Quote:

It's so hard being in a R/M normally, and now with the negative baggage attatched it is soooo much harder.

amen!! this is so true but we will live through it and be a stonger person with self growth, right?

Things are good on this front- feeling pretty normal which most of you can relate too, it is a good feeling just to be right with the world - not exciting but really good. I reached over last night and felt H in the bed which a year ago was NOT the case. This I am thankful for. H had a work function last night and didnt go out after so I would freak out he said- strange as it is this is really nice gesture

. I read some more of my newest book, I will Never Leave you- highly recommend it!! Took some notes- 3 steps to forgiveness and by the way you dont forgive someone to be nice to them but to be at peace with yourself.

Step one: Think through the assault - whatever it is. Everytime you objectively think it through- you heal

Step 2: Whenever you have thoughts of revenge and reinact everything to make it just so your ego can handle it, you hurt yourself!so,,,, take a deep breath, lean over , meditate for a few secs until its a habit that brings you peace

Step 3: recognize your egos part in all this- what is it that bothers you about the infraction, what is your ego trying to say? for instance - the affair hurts my ego because it is making me less important in OR, or whatever
this I am working on...

Anyway, this reading really helps me and we even dialogued last night

so,,, tonight is my work happy hour and everyone wants me to stay out late- say a prayer I do what my better self wants to do and go home sober and early!!

D12 has a swim championship tomorrow and a hangover would be awful!! Plus I want to go for a run through beautiful Miami University in Oxford where the event is...anyone want to meet me there???? Pam??

Shay

Hey, Shay, good to see you back

Ellie

Glad to see things are going well for you Shay.

Nitaf

Thanks girls!

Good Morning Shay,

I wondered if you still run.

I still don't, but I have to get more exercise I think I would feel better if I do.

I bet it was great to reach over and H be in bed with you!

So happy for you guys that things are going well.

I just posted to you too! Hang in there girl!!

Shay... thanks for your post to my thread. I had forgotten that I posted the goddess thing to you... how funny.

Ok, really important question... I have been reading your old threads... Where exactly do I put the feng shui cactus to get rid of the OP??

Thanks.

ahahahahahahha- it worked for a while! and you know it died about 2 weeks ago- too much water but I am out to replace it- cant take any chances...as you walk into your main entrance it should be in the room straight ahead and possibly on the mantle- also lots of trophies and the color red in that room. Picture a grid with 3 room along the back and 3 infront- this is the middle back room on the grid-

,
you cracked me up

Shay

How long were u and H actually separated?

Nitaf

Shay,

Hmm...I have a cactus that blooms in November in my family room does that count? What's the name of that cactus? My dining room is burgandy.

So, what's new? Just stopping by to say HI!

Nik