Morphing into a Red Hot Momma 7 - DivorceBusting.com

interesting, this unspoken "dance" between H and I....the closeness and withdrawal on his part...I am trying to stay constant, to be the "northern star", but sometimes I feel like I need a compass myself. I have no clue what's up between "them", and am staying far away from the topic....
Last night I caught up w/H in the parking lot here at work as I pulled in as he was pulling out to go home....he usually stops by my office but I was out....he saw me come in and came back to say "hi"...we talked a few minutes, and he seemed happy to see me....I asked if I could come around to his car window and give him a quick kiss and he said "sure", in a voice that sounded kind of pleased about it. I hadnt mentioned that while we were gone on vacation I gave him a quick kiss a couple of times in a parking lot and he got irritated, just plain told me "stop that I don't like it" once.....so yesterday evening in the parking lot at work was ok....go figure.
I worked until 9, got home and H was still doing weights....S mentioned he didn't think H had called OW....H came upstairs waving a paper when he finished weights and said "look what I got"...it was an email from the HR dept at the place he sent his resume before we left, wanting him to contact them to set up an interview. H is not sure he's interested in the position they have open, but I encouraged him to interview just to build the contacts.....I hope it isn't too late, the email was sent June 30. I have resisted checking email for him, because I'm his wife, not his Mom, and that's one of the things he needs to do for himself....so I have my fingers crossed, its a pretty specialized position so it would probably take a while to fill...it would be split between 2 offices, on 30 miles from us, 1 50, but the one further away is in the town where we lived when we were 1st married eons ago. I hope they can offer him an attractive salary package, because that would be tempting to him and we wouldnt have to move out of state. I don't want to move, but as I said before I certainly will if that's what needs to be done....

Anyway, H seemed so much more at peace after he got that email....it's as if it gave him some hope that there is a way to get away from.....her???? I hope that's it. But he mentioned how encouraged he was that at least they expressed some interest.
I had hoped to ml, but we were both tired, I snuggled up to him and evidently fell fast asleep...woke up in the middle of the night and thought "well darn, blew that"

This morning H is off and I had to come to work. H let me sleep and did chores himself, brought in coffee to me an hour later than I usually get up and woke me up...mentioned I'd seemed tired, so he'd decided to let me sleep as long as possible....I thanked him profusely for that and the coffee and mentioned what a thoughtful and loving thing it was...hope that is the kind of behavior reward that will pay off.

I told H I would be up for loving when I got home....he said how he's have to get his weights done.....I hugged him and told him "that's ok, I'm giving you a bad time, but I will be ready when you are"....frankly, it's been almost a week and that's starting to seem like a long time!
But the weird thing is H seems "warmer" emotionally....can't put my finger on it, an outsider wouldnt be aware of it....it's hard to describe. I gave him a peck on the check and said "love ya, gotta run" and turned to go out the door. He said "I love you" with emphasis....not "love you too" in a mumbled way, but very clearly and specifically...again, hard to describe but it's "different"..

We are going out of town tomorrow to visit my brother....will stay overnight....so, that another weekend out of OW's grasp that he's consented to. YES!!
He did say yesterday he may have to go do paperwork in the morning, but I choose to believe that's most likely the truth, since he's been gone and frankly we are starting to lose clinical staff right and left because of the paper work load increase....

so I keep on keeping on, keep on hoping these small signs that I pick up are accurate....I am encouraged by the little almost imperceptible changes, the tone of his voice, the way he hugs me, etc....Of course they may change again tomorrow, who knows...
he is still purposefully putting his ring on after exercise, etc., and he wears it to work around coworkers. I know everybody's sick of hearing about it, but it still is a big source of encouragement to me. he's been wearing it over a month now.

I just can't think of a thing to do differently right now, so I guess I will just "stay the course" and see what happens with some more time.....I swear though a new job in this location would be the answer to prayers. I don't think H wants to move either, really.

Hi Deb - You are so right - this morphing is a complicated process. Just when we think we have a breakthrough in our personal growth, we have to dig deeper for more. But all worthwhile, hey?

Wishing you a terrific week ahead.

Slowly

Hi TC, thanks for the post and encouragement....what is your thread called? I'd love to follow up on your sitch....
This is hard hard stuff in my opinion....but I guess nothing worth having is easy, or something like that is the old adage....

Hi again TC, I was going to mention the 180 of not mentioning the OW that you suggested and forgot....you are absolutely right, I think that might be a great 180 for me, and I have actually had that as a short term goal about 2 months ago....I think it was the end of March, I set a goal of not mentioning her until June...(I had to set a time frame, because "forever" seemed to unacheivable, LOL!)....and I almost made it, got until the middle/end of May and somehow got into a heated discussion and wound up throwing H's frozen lunch at him as he left for work.....being able to act "as if" she doesnt exist, is out of the picture is a big part of dropping the rope for me, and of moving on w/my life....I do better at it at times and worse at other times, and it's scary. I think I'm afraid I will miss something if I give up focusing any attention on her. Work for me to do there, huh? I am going to renew that focus/effort though....someone else...maybe it was you! posted recently that it really made their H wonder what was going on when they started ignoring OW....

I've been working on going out a little and coming home a while after H does....Saturday he'd been home from "work" about an hour before I got home, and seemed a little "distressed" that I was gone, even though S was with me and we'd gone to the grocery store....I'm still somewhat cautious about being gone a lot because one of his complaints was that I was never around/interested in him...but I think just a touch does him good. I told him I'd thought we'd be home before him or I'd have left a note....that's kind of a touchy issue because I've told him it helps me feel better when he leaves me a note or lets me know when he's gone, and he has been pretty good about it, so I try to reciprocate for the most part.....
I just had a weird thought that I can even tell on his notes when he's lying to me, thinking specifically of valentines, the day before he left a note that he was going shopping and went to OW's, I was so suspicious just somehow from the way his handwriting was, and I was right.

Hi Dawn! that is a funny one about the teen years! I sure know what you mean, though. I've sometimes felt like I have 3 kids (4 actually, since D got married) and I never know which one is going to need "mom" next or for what! At least your H has some cognizance of where he's at....I'm not sure mine does.....at least he doesnt admit it!

thought I'd post about the weekend. It was kind of a bust, and I don't think good for dbing efforts, although who know. We went to visit my parents and brother...they live 2 hours away. I love them dearly, but it is very difficult for me to be around them very much, they live lives of complete and utter chaos and have a completely different perspective on life than I do. I am certain my mother's been addicted to the "womens drugs" of the 60's since then, (valium, librum, etc.), since then and the results are pretty much what you would expect, and so painful to have to see. I had thought they were all doing better the last couple of years, but they seemed to have really regressed this past weekend, with the result that H and S and I are totally exhausted from just spending 24 hours visiting them. It was so weird and painful. My parents physical health is not good, and that makes it even harder to see.

H was so patient in putting up with them, although I could sense that it caused him to pull back emotionally some....can't blame him, it's just a natural self-protective response the the chaos and mess...

When we walked through the door of our home yesterday afternoon, I was struck hard by the relief of being home....I think H was also...in fact he commented as such....and last night by how good it felt to sleep in our own bed in our own room.....I had to run to the store to pick up some items, and found myself fretting that H would be calling OW while I was gone....don't know if he did, he'd suggested I go to the store so that always makes me suspicious, but maybe he was just afraid we'd run out of necessities.....
I thanked H for his patience with my family and told him how much I appreciated it and how good it felt to be home again w/him....put my arms around him and told him I was missing not having a chance for "naughtiness"....H said he was exhausted and too tired and that if I wanted "naughtiness" I would have to not ask him to go visit there very much....I was joking around and said "what, you mean the plans I've made for every other weekend arent going to work"and he said "no" emphatically, but gave me a hug.

h went to bed about 10, I stayed up about 1/2 hour later to finish cleaning the kitchen. When I went to bed, I undressed in the bathroom so as not to bother him, but my nightgown wasnt hanging where I thought, so walked into get one nude. When I opened the drawer H wanted to know what I was doing, I told him, and he said "I thought you were going to sleep w/out one"....I chuckled and said "it works for me if it does for you" and hopped in bed. This is kind of a 180 after a 180....several months ago I'd been sleeping nude some just to be different (this from a woman who used to wear flannel nightgowns) and h seemed to become somewhat immune to it, so I changed again and went back to wearing "sexy" night things....just trying to be a little bit unpredictable....
I really wasnt expecting anything, but surprise surprise, H seemed to have found his 2nd wind and initiated ml....a "quickie but goodie" in H's terms......I went to sleep with his arms around me, the best place in the world to be, and slept soundly all night.
this morning H was pleasant although he seemed kind of distant when I rubbed his back and kissed him when his alarm went off....I always think it's because he's rushing off to call OW, and I'm certain sometimes that's it, but I need to try to keep my focus shifted away from that.

S came to my office this morning and was riding to D's house w/H as he went to the out-of-town office.....H came to get S in my office. As they were leaving, I told S to give me a quick hug, which he did, and I kissed my fingers and pressed them to H's cheek, but he leaned over and kissed my cheek and whispered ILY....I tucked that in my heart as a nice thing for the day.

Heavens I wish I wasnt so tired today. I am astounded at how draining both physically and emotionally a day at my folks can be. I find that so sad.

Deb - Maybe next time you go to your parents, you can spend less time? Like rent a hotel room (if you haven't before) and let your H know that you'd love him with you, but you don't necessarily expect him to join you at their house. You shouldn't have to feel that stressed.

That is nice about the ML and the "ILY".

Hi dfb....yes, we are going to have to rent a motel room for our own sanity, and I will give h the option of not going. We've stayed in motels most of the time when we go to visit, but for some reason that insults my parents....but we are going to have to just as a matter of survival. I really can't handle the stress and strain. I have no clue how they can live with it day in and day out. Even w/all the crap going on at home right now, it doesnt seem as bad...no wonder their health is so poor. They honestly need to be in a retirement home, but they will never do that. My mom still works 3/4 time, my dad works full time and helps my brother farm and they just bought a floundering business.....maybe that's why they seem so bad right now....sigh....I would love to be more supportive to them but I just can't do it all right now, and my first priority has to be my own family. Which means my brother, who's never married, is stuck with most of the "front line" stuff, and that's hard for him. Life is complicated, that''s for sure

Oh Wow, I was just over in the main office building and in the break room, someone has posted an article entitled "parental affairs" on the bulletin board. It's from a professional journal, and dated 2001, so someone purposely put it up there. It looks really good, it's talking about the traumatic effects of affairs on children & spouses. I'll have to read it, but it wasnt there last week, and I can't help but think it is not a coincidence that someone chose to post it there......OK, H and OW....check out the BB and take it to heart!!!!

Ok, need to post some positives....hmmmm, kind of hard after the weekend, but here goes:

from yesterday:
-H was patient and uncomplaining about my family, bless his heart (now he could have called OW to complain to her, but I cant do anything about that)
-H initiated ml, and was EAGER!!!!
-H continues to make reference to the future as it pertains to "us"....

Today:
-H initiated a peck on the cheek and whispered ILY at work where he could have been seen/heard (gasp!)
-H has emailed me a couple of times conversationally today

I looked up the article posted in the break room here at work....it's very short, not from a professional journal but good, interesting information......the site is www.domianpsych.com, the title is "The Parental Affair: Destructive Effects on Spouse and Children" and it's from March 2001.

The incredible irony of all this is H knows this stuff!!!!!!WTF is his brain doing? One of the sources quoted in the article is "clincial Handbook of Marriage & Couples Interventions" which is on the same bookshelf as the devotions book the pictures of OW fell out of just before vacation. sheeesh! maybe I should read part of that....

OK guys, somebody stop me here, the devil is after me again.....
In the above mentioned article, there is a part that says "There is a reason people keep affairs secrest. It is not because they want to spare the betrayed spouse pain; it is because the affair can be anything the two people fantasize it to be as long as the realtioship is not made public and subjected to reality".....
I am so tempted to run off another copy and highlight that section and another one and drop it into OW's mailbox.....or make another copy and highlight selected portions and leave it on the table in the breakroom where H will eat lunch tomorrow.........

Of course, the angel on my shoulder is reminding me that the most effective course of action is to do nothing.....

hmmmm....this really is a good article, it talks about how the roles of monogamy are split between 2 people when an affair happens and the LBS becomes all the negatives and the other becomes the embodiment of all the positives.....someone posted here recently, either in this thread or the previous one, that now the OW and I have reversed roles, which is what would be meant here. If that is indeed accurate, that would seem to be a huge shift to me. hmmmmmmmmmmm

Of course even thinking about this is hindering my approach to acting "as if" the affair is over/OW doesnt exist.......

Stop Deb!! Don't make copies of that article, unless its for YOU! I'll bet you it will be a topic of conversation anyways ... don't you? I know if it was in my work place breakroom and that article was pinned up ... it would definitely be talked about!

The article that I have copied and pasted below was posted under the midlife crisis BB yesterday. I thought it was excellent. Read it and see what you think. This is NOT related (I don't think!) to your "article". I just thought it was good and wondered what you thought. It makes a lot of sense to me ... AND from what we both are going/have gone through "rings" very true!

Quote:

Though primarily addressed to the women, most men who happen to feel drawn to read this article will find themselves doing so with a touch of curiosity. Of course, they think they already know what a man wants and are curious as to whether I am going to say something different or not. They think a man wants a good looking woman. Foremost, last and always. And though, as a man, I know where they're coming from, what a man is really looking for is something much deeper than that. He is wanting something to reassure him that he is an alright guy, that he is an okay person, that he is worth something.

IN SHORT, WHAT A MAN REALLY WANTS IS VALIDATION. He seeks this in many ways, a primary vehicle of which is his relationship with women. Something instinctive tells him that she can make him alright. Whether it be by how pretty a woman he can keep at his side, or by the scorecard of how many women he has vanquished in some romantic fashion, he sometimes goes through an entire lifetime attempting to feel good about himself through having relationships with women.HarveyIn the classic movie taken from the play Harvey, with Jimmy Stewart, there is a scene in which a very rigid psychiatrist, Dr. Willie Chumley, begins to let down his emotional defenses and reveal his true desires in life. He said if his fondest wish were to come true, it would be to just lie in his comfortable chair for hours and have some compassionate female simply rubbing his head, saying over and over, "Poor boy!" The humor in the character is the fact that there is a little bit of Dr. Chumley in every man. Down deep he wants to be unconditionally loved just like a little boy by a perfect, loving mother. Pride, of course, causes that vulnerability to be hidden as a man grows from childhood into manhood. First it is hidden from others and then at last it is hidden from himself, but it is still there waiting to be discovered.Meanwhile, man begins to seek some sort of gratification as a substitute for this missing unconditional love from a source he can look up to, and he usually turns to those substitutes that never quite fill him up, emotionally speaking. There is always something lacking, or as the Rolling Stones have said and capitalized on, he "can't get no satisfaction". The key to winning a man's heart but the fact remains, he is vulnerable…very vulnerable. And for that wise woman who understands this it provides an opening to secure the man of her choice like spearing fish in a barrel!You see, most men going around trying to sport a good looking woman on their arm, or keeping lists of their female conquests, for one reason and one reason alone: It gives them a sense of validation and being worth something, and that is a feeling they desperately feel the need for. The only problem is, this kind of validation is temporary and fleeting and, like a drug or alcohol, only leaves him feeling empty and in need of another fix as soon as a little time has gone by. Man's greatest vulnerability is not a physical need, but a psychological one. It is the need to be loved, but not just loved by anyone - to be loved by someone he senses is emotionally independent and strong. This kind of love is validating and worthwhile.So, if you as a woman wish to stand out and make a difference to the man of your dreams you have to make up your mind not to be weak. You must demonstrate in your every action that, though you may derive great enjoyment and fulfillment in the company of the man you want, you still have the capacity to survive very well and go on with your life and be happy without him if he ever takes you for granted or misuses you.

A man may think he needs a bimbo by his side to show off to the other guys, but in his heart he knows he's perpetrating a fraud. She may help him make the other guys jealous, evoking a kind of prideful satisfaction in one way on his part, but in his heart he knows she's not what he really wants or needs. He's compromised for this because he's lacking the real thing he wants.No, what a man really wants is a woman who loves him in spite of himself, but won't put up with his bull. VALIDATE YOUR MAN

Here are several key points to remember, in trying to bring true love into your life and into the life or the man you choose:
1. COME TO TERMS WITH THE FACT THAT YOU DON'T NEED ANYONE TO BE HAPPY IN YOUR LIFE. You may want someone very badly, but in the end you must come to accept the reality that you will always somehow survive if it doesn't happen and you will make the best of what life gives you.

2. MAKE UP YOUR MIND THAT YOU WILL NOT EVER TOLERATE BEING DISRESPECTED, DISREGARDED, MISUSED, ABUSED, OR USED IN ANY FASHION WHATSOEVER. You need not revile against someone who so treats you, but you definitely make your absence felt in their life when they do so.

3. BE RESERVED IN THE LOVE YOU SHOWER UPON YOUR MAN. You may bestow limited tokens of cherishing, but if they are not reciprocated in quantity and kind, back off or your love will become less and less appreciated and ultimately despised.

4. LEARN TO LISTEN OBJECTIVELY, AND TO REFLECT FEELINGS EXPRESSED BY HIM WITHOUT ADVISING, CRITICIZING, OR TRYING TO CHANGE HIM. Don't even offer too much sympathy, lest it be quickly taken for granted.

5. DON'T BE AFRAID TO BE WITHOUT HIM FOR EXTENDED PERIODS OF TIME. When he is out of your life, make sure that your life is as happy and productive and fruitful as it ever is when he's around. At the same time, don't throw out a welcome mat that says "Walk On Me!!" the minute he starts coming back around. Show pleasure to see him again, but be restrained.

Conclusion: In essence, then, you have it in your power to calm your troubled man like a little boy in his mother's arms. Therein lies what a man really wants: a woman who nurtures him but who he can look up to and knows won't take any of his guff. Be caring, but be strong. Therein lies the key to fulfilling a man's heart. You may wonder why I'm so concerned about meeting the man's needs and not yours, but that's another article. If he isn't fulfilling your needs you're definitely choosing the wrong man. But if you've got the right man and you become what he really wants, such a love must be clung to with all the strength you can muster. For such a love is attainable, but rare in this world of ours.

Hi TC....thanks for your posts! guess what....I didn't give the article to OW....but I did make a copy for me, it really is excellent. OW doesnt give a damn, frankly, and H knows this stuff....so I probably wouldnt have gained a thing other than personal retribution, which doesnt make any sense.

I like the article you posted, I'm going to copy it so I can have it to reread.....it makes a lot of sense, in many ways. when I combine it with the article I found at work yesterday, it helps me to begin to see my H's sitch (and mine) more clearly....interesting how these seem to come together at the appropriate time. I also had what I think is called a "rhema sign" from a bible reading yesterday....I don't know, I am kind of from the school that believes there's "no such thing as coincidence" but it fascinates me as to the timing of things. I think it was Sage who had a thread here months ago titled "when the student is ready the teacher appears" and that has stuck with me because I thought-and continue to think-it was so apt.

I'm kind of in a weird place this morning, and probably should have posted about that before I read your posts....as it really feeds in to my belief that things become clearer when the time is right.

I do want to read some of your thread. I learn so much from the wise folks who have traveled this road before me.

TC I read through most of your last thread this morning and all I can say is WOW.....you are one smart cookie. I think I have the last page to go, so I'm in suspense, HB was encouraging you to "go dim" and let your H know that was it....either or...I'm curious to see how that turns out.

I'm in a weird place today....I have again gottent to the point I was at the first Friday in June on the way home from the funeral of family friend, just weirdly detached....knowing that I am done with his drama, and what ever he does about it, I'm gonna be fine. Don't know how I will be fine, finances are a concern, but somehow.....this was the day before H put his ring back on, so I can't help but wonder if he has some weird intuition about me as I seem to have about him.....could be....lord knows we've been together long enough to learn how to "read" each other, whether he likes to admit it or not.
I've decided, much as you posted TC, that I am going to in my mind put a time limit of a year from now, or rather the day H put his ring back on....I will be able to do something by then if he hasnt gotten it together....I'm not sure what yet....i have decided that if H decides to move out of state, I need to have some proof from him that this is over and not going to happen again before I give up my job, uproot S who will be going into middle school, and move 1000 miles from family. Don't know what the proof will be, I have to think on that.

I'm kind of debating after reading your thread, TC, if it's time yet to tell him this is it and go "dim".....or if I need to keep on making sure the steaks are on the grill for a while longer. Obviously there's no harm in sleeping on it and praying about it until I'm sure.

Part of not wanting to do it is plain selfishness--frankly in many ways we are closer than we have been in years and the sex is great, and I just plain don't want to give that up!!!!!!

It's kind of hard, because I'm not sure what I would do if he didn't call it quits if I "go dim"....I am determined and adamant to leave that decision on his shoulders, as to going or staying, but I'm not sure what leverage I have if I am determined not to file for D....I could research annulments and legal separation, maybe I should do that some....
the damn idiot. I really don't think he has any intention of leaving me/home, he just cant get his head out of his behind enough to tell her its done and make it stick. Of course she is the queen of the guilt trip, from what he's said.....when brings another thought to my mind that I'm mulling over. I can't believe the things he told me a month ago were not heart felt and long-thought out and have completely gone out the window....he talked about how she blows up and gets so mad and he doesnt know why, how could you ever trust a person like that, etc......so weird....

Many years ago, when I was in college and just after, I dated a guy for 7 years. We were engaged, I loved him terribly, probably still do in a weird way. We broke up because.....yep, you guessed it, he cheated.....over and over again, and I finally got to the point where I knew deep down that I had had enough and was done....that no matter what happened, it was better than living with that stuff. it's weird, but I'm really close to that point w/H....I don't know how to describe it, its just something that is so deep you know it.....Funny thing is, talk about ESP or intuition or something, xbf started calling and making overtures again the same week I met H....I could have had him back.........

TC, if you're there, tell me more if you would about the "coming around".....

I'm interested in opinions out there, experiences, time to "go dim" or just keep on with what I've been doing, maybe toning down the gestures of affection a little? I'm going to make a point of being gone some when H gets home...thinking of other ways to "get a life"....

H is one grumpy guy yesterday and today, this morning any way. I don't know why, could be he's tired from my folks still, work is a pain, it's hotter than blazes here (he says that's it) or, past experience has shown that he gets weird when something's up w/the b---h. H was making those whimpering sounds in the night again I think on Sunday. I just let him whimper. I don't know if that's good or not, but he knows how to solve it and he knows exactly where I stand on the matter.

I'm rambling here, but trying to sort out where I'm at....I see there's a new phone card here in it's hiding spot by the computer. I don't know, I just feel emotionally numb, sort of "oh well". Is that good or bad? I wonder if this detachment is going to stick?

Maybe I need to give a lot more thought to how to go a little dim.....H got really upset last winter when I didnt respond to his emails, and gets pretty close to being jealous when he even thinks there might be anything relating to another guy.....I don't know......don't know....don't know....
Opinions? keep on doing what I'm doing (seems to work some except he keeps going back) we've made progress over the long haul....or pull back?

OW was being a real demanding fit thrower before vacation, I can't imagine she's improved much....maybe I should just try to sit tight, be a little less demonstrative and more mysterious, and see what happens.

I did go get my hair cut after work, got it kind of flipped up and spiked out a little....just into trying something different these days.

I'd sure love to hear any opinions or thoughts out there!

I'm not sure how this plays into my sitch, but....I'm absolutely convinced H is big time in a MLC, and HB said on TC's thread that "they just don't respond the same" in a MLC affair....if any one could elaborate a little more on that, it would be helpful

I also believe this is H's 1st affair.....could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Thoughts on how this stuff impacts my sitch?

Hey girl,
I am out here but not sure what to say because it's all too eerily familiar and I don't want to project what happened to me onto you.

Both our H's are in MLC but the waffling is killing us.

what is your going dim idea? if H goes to Brazil one more time and doesn't break it off I may need to dim too.

I read somewhere once about are there enough crumbs left to live on from their cake eating? I am sick of his crumbs.

Hi Deb,
I'm sorry I wasn't around last night. I'm glad you got to read my thread. I discovered that I wasn't able to get to it via how I entered it into my post to you a couple of days ago. (Sorry...I guess I don't know how to do that right.) Obviously you figured out how to get there though.

I'm not sure that there is a whole lot more info on that last page ... but my going "dim" did not turn out like most would think. I DID NOT ignore H. I DID ignore all of his "antics". Most would think going dim would be more or less not giving him much more than the time of day. That is NOT the case in my situation. That is why in one of my posts to you I mentioned how difficult it is to find the "balance" between separating yourself from H's problems, continuing to "make" yourself grow and then also still act loving/respectful to H. I will post more about this later .. IF you want.

Unfortunately I did not get back on-line until early this morning, right before work and don't have time to go into too much detail. Don't be "down" Deb! You are doing absolutely GREAT! Keep your PMA up, EVEN if you don't feel it, okay? Let everyone else (H?) SEE it ... it will be catchy. You will find that you will actually begin "feeling" the happy person that you are showing everyone on the outside. You are one awesome individual .. don't forget that!

I will pull up your thread again tonight when I get home from work ... to see how you are doing.

Have a great day!

TC,

I would be interested to read of your story on how you went dim by ignoring H's antics. Where can I find it?

Good Morning Deb-

I don't have much time to post as H is only gone for a bit and I am having wacky computer problems. UGH! Anyway, I hope you are still feeling that detachment. I know it feels strange but I also hope it feels empowering! It feels weird to us because of our long-term relationships and the co-dependence that we got too comfortable with. The hardest part for me was to detach WITH love and not anger. Detaching with anger was easy but it left me feeling....well, just more anger. When I detached with love it made me feel as if I was actually making strides towards healing our marriage...and myself.

I told H something a few nights ago that maybe could be seen as bad BDing but it actually turned in my favor. He was in his "teen" years and not helping me with major things around the house. (I am talking hard physical labor...trees down, etc.) But he didn't have any problem helping his nephew at his home. I was at my boiling point. I decided to have a talk with him about it. Well, my talking went over like a ton of bricks. He became sullen and uncommunicative. I could almost hear those teen wheels turning, thinking, "I could pack my bags and be away from this nag". So I told him in a very quiet and controlled voice that I wanted him to know that the threat of him leaving me did not bother me like it used to. The air kind of crackled at that moment. HA

So I feel a little change, maybe a little shift in power? Who knows. Maybe I am just feeling my own power? Either way I am glad that I said it. I am glad that he knows.

I don't know if this helps you with your situation. I guess the message I wanted to give you boils down to this....don't be afraid. You are a wonderful woman and your husband should count his lucky stars that you are in his life. Don't be afraid to show him this through your actions.

Take care

Dawn

Hi TC, I need to finish reading your thread.....you were so right in your earlier post about how hard it is to find the balance....incredibly difficult for me, but so important, I really feel like it's the "make it or break it" thing in my sitch.....PLEASE post more info about your sitch when you have time....what you've been sharing is very helpful/insightful to me....

Hi Pamila....I'm with you about the waffling being crazymaking! I'm not sure about how I would go dim, but on TC's old thread, Heart's Blessing was encouraging her to consider "going dim"....to make it clear that it was time for her H to end the A, that leaving or staying was his choice, but if he chose to stay, it had to end and she had to know it was done, and then to pretty much minimize all interaction with him...move into another bedroom, etc.....
I don't know.....I'm anxious to read more how this went in her sitch....I'm thinking her post this morning may have an approach that is more appropriate in my sitch, in that she ignored his antics but not her H.....so I'm really trying to think through all this.......
I gotta get over and catch up with you soon!

Thought I'd post a little about "current events".....

H is grumpy and withdrawn still, was that way when he got home from work last night, although it's after a 12 hour day....we did sit and talk at the table for an hour, which I feel is good. Something we didn't do at all a year ago.

This morning H is still grumpy and withdrawn. he was here in office building w/OW yesterday, and got up to call her today, I know, so I'm guessing it has something to do w/OW....H told me several weeks ago that he was angry at the choices he has to make now, so maybe that's it.

I gave him a hug when his alarm went off at 5:30, and went back to sleep for 1/2 hour, ignoring his shuffling off for his early morning call....
I didn't sleep last night, so am really out of it today, I know it was after 2:30 when I went to sleep....I was really aggravated thinking about all this stuff, and had a notion to wake H up and ask WTF is going on, but didnt!!!!!

Tommorrow H says he's going to the out-of town workshop on marital/couples therapy w/male coworker that he mentioned at end of May....These used to be tryst times for H and OW, so theyve been a source of real anxiety for me, H had told me he was going to it last week (What?) and I ignored it and then it's this week........so, I'm still trying to ignore it........frankly, the way I feel right now I'm not sure I give a damn what he does.

cool and distant....this morning I asked him if he wanted a hug and the jerk actually said "I don't care"....so I gave him a hug and a cheek peck and left him alone....I ususally make a point to tell him good bye, have a nice day, etc., after his "I don't care" I just left the house. I used to hear from him by email around 9 AM that he got to the out of town office, havent heard a word this morning.

I don't have a clue what this total change of direction in his demeanor could mean. If anyone has any ideas I'm sure interested in hearing them.

I'm trying to follow his lead though, and backing off when he pulls back rather than pursuing him....I'm convinced that's the way to go. I'm also trying to keep myself centered regardless of where he's at, and not let myself get shook by his string-pulling.

I need to look back through some of my threads though, I'm not sure, but I think that most times before his pulling back has preceeded a falling out/break up w/OW.....In fact I'm pretty sure it has.....

Lucky lucky me! my period started yesterday, for the first time in 2 1/2 months....I was hoping maybe I was done with the darn things, but I guess not. So, I'm sure PMS has some bearing on where I've been lately, although interestingly enough I havent been nearly as emotional as I often have been.

Lst night h had an email regarding the job he sent a resume to....they offered him two dates for an interview, evidently the person who supervises the position is a good friend of his from graduate school, which could be good or tough.....but I'm pretty sure he'd have a shot at it....I think a new job would be a help, we wouldnt have to move for this one, and H told me about a month ago that getting away from OW was a big part of why he was looking for a new position......

Oh Wow, TC, I'm reading through the rest of your thread, and am at your post about "letting go and letting god". I am amazed, so many of your posts sound as though you took the words right out of my mind!
Last night when I couldnt sleep and laid in bed agonizing and being tempted to wake up H and ask him what was going on and where "we" stand, a voice in my mind kept saying over and over and over, "let go and let God and get the heck out of the way"...........well, I guess that voice won out, because I didn't wake H up and eventually went to sleep myself!

I need to have that seared into my brain: Let Go, Let God, Get the heck out of the way (and stay out of the way, I might add!)

Holy Moly, TC! you are me! your comptemplations and questions and agonizations are the exact things that run through my head. and our H's work sitch's may be different, but I swear they sound like one and the same person as well.

Still no email from H today.....I'm working hard to "go quiet" and see what happens, as HB mentioned on your thread....to paraphrase "I've said my piece", now comes the waiting and watching.

Hi Deb - NG has been grumpy too, I've just been teasing him about it, and then leave it. Heaven knows what goes through their minds - you need to distract yourself from his dramas, sweetie.

Hugs, Slowly

Hi deb, just checking in on you. I dont have any comforting words myself. You know im in deep s*** myself. I can relate to you when you said you are not afraid anymore if H leaves. I think I am close to that point myself. Just suddenly there is an inflow of energy where I really dont care anymore, tired of thinking what his motives are. We need to take care of ourselves. This morning I am at peace with the whole sitch, I looked up the sky and thought whatever happens, we will be fine...

Hi Deb,
Yes this really IS hard!! ... ALL of it! But you ARE "growing" from all of this. You may not feel like it at the moment, but I guarantee that when you look back at this time a year from now, you WILL realize just how much you have grown and what a strong person you have become.

I think it took a year for the "light bulb" to click on in my head. It really isn't just about listening to all of the great advice that you get from this BB or from the counselor's, friends or associates. Its about YOU getting to the point of "realizing" exactly what you think you want to do about it and then going for it. It took me a long time to get "there". I think one of the hardest things for me to do was not be so hard on myself. I believe that I put terrible pressure on myself in that I felt like I HAD to "do something" about this situation NOW! Who said so???!!

When I finally told myself that I was going to "give" my current situation a year, it did a lot for me AND the situation!

I know HB advised me to go dim, but I'm thinking that I did not accomplish the "dim" definition that she was referring to. I DID accomplish going dim (if that's what you want to call it) in the area of dropping ALL talk of H's problems/OW's. I lost more weight , did a lot of shopping with a close girlfriend and totally changed my style of dress, changed my hairstyle and most importantly began appearing like I was happy/having a good gime MOST of the time. Remember during this time my H and I began riding his new Harley and had a great time AND H begin seeing the "new" very fun side of me. I began learning about new places/things. I would totally surprise H with my new found "knowledge" about these different things/and or places. He would come out and say "Hey! How did YOU know that?" and appeared to be somewhat impressed. What was happening here is that I was really "expanding" my circle of friends and in the process of this, I was learning new things, seeing MANY things in a new perspective. I find that with every new person I meet, I expand my horizons (perceptions) in life. I also began socializing without H. I ALWAYS gave him the option of coming along with me and there were times when he didn't want to or was too tired. I know I shocked him several times when I decided that I would go anyway...even if he didn't go with me. (I would NEVER EVER do this before!) This was good for ME AND good for the situation!

In reference to "dropping all talk of OW/H's problems" .. this was very important! We had discussed and argued about these "hot topics" thousands of times without getting anywhere. After all of MY input into these "discussions" he MUST know .. he DID know how I felt about it all. There is no way he couldn't! So I decided that there was no more to be said about it. If it was brought up, all it did was "rehash" and it accomplished absolutely nothing.

I'm sure my H was enjoying "having his cake and eating it too." As absolutely horrible as that sounds, I STILL decided to give myself and the situation a year. That kept that pressure off of me. So while H was enjoying his "made in heaven" current situation, I was changing before his eyes. (Most changes mentioned earlier in this post.) I know I already brought up (a couple of times) about me not being there when he got home from "who knows where". This was again totally NOT TC ... and although he did not mention anything about my "absences" right away, he DID begin asking where I was, etc.... There was ONE time that he actually wondered out loud .. kind of laughingly, who I was "seeing"!

The "year" deadline that I had set has come and gone. That deadling was for after my D's graduation just this last June. My situation has improved so much, I just can't believe it! My H has become very attentive, very loving and actually a little bit "worried"! H sees all my great changes and can't figure out why I am still with him. (He HAS come right out and said that!) He is constantly saying things like he doesn't deserve me, etc.. It's definitely not all words either. I really ... REALLY see his changes within him. He is actually "living" it every day.

Everything that I have posted here on my "changes" etc... I moved very s-l-o-w-l-y on. For my sake as much as for "testing the waters" sake. You know YOUR H better than anyone. Find what works for YOU and your situation. When you try something ( remember...slowly/gradually!) and if it gets an absolutely awful response or result, scratch it. But!... when you get a "no" response... like I did on MOST things I tried in the beginning, continue to proceed cautiously .

All of what I have posted here is really trying to put everything into a "nutshell", which is pretty impossible to do in situations such as this. I'm hoping that it helps you in some way! I "look" you up every day, so I can/will post more if you would like.

You ARE doing great Deb! Stay strong and keep on keeping on!

Hi Pamila,
I did try to post my thread "site" here on Deb's thread, but it didn't work. If you click on my BB "name" totallyconfused, it will take you to my "home" (?) site. Not exactly sure WHAT that is called. At the bottom of the page that the "clicking on of my name" takes you to, you will see an area that you can click on ..that says something like see all of THIS users posts. When you click on that you should see all of my threads AND where I have posted. My most recent thread was called "Friendship Saga Continues..." I haven't posted to that thread since May 2003. I think I had another thread before that too.

I hope I didn't confuse you too much...on how to get to my thread!

Pamila,
Just an FYI. After going back and reading ..just the end of my thread from last year, I want you to know that there were more "ranting and raving" and "journaling" type posts going on in that thread than anything else. I DID get a lot of good advice from Hearts Blessing and others. HB was/IS awesome! Once you get to MY thread, you can click on her name to read through her threads. Just needed to let you know that you probably won't get too many "answers" from my thread .. at least not from MY posts anyway...

TC, thanks for your "in a nutshell" recap, it is very helpful to me.....I would love anything you wish to post....it's so helpful to have others share their experiences and glean ideas from them......

just recapping my own sitch over the last 24 hours here....One of my goals is to, as you did, TC, drop all mention of H's OW/sitch/problems and just get one with my life while trying to make things at home better all the time. I've done pretty well with this, for the most part....the last "episode" was the Tuesday while we were on vacation and it just all crashed in on me as we were in the same cabing where he'd been w/"her".....since then I think I've probably said 1 time that "I'm feeling insecure" and H has given me a hug and said don't.......Actually, one other time, while we were on vacation at home and H went to get gas and a haircut and was gone for 3 hours, I got tearful and told him I felt insecure because i started to think he was with someone.....he was reassuring then....
Well, I almost/kind of backslid at little this morning....H is gone today for the marital therapy workshop he talked about 6 weeks ago, supposedly w/male co-worker...this co-worker lives in the same town as OW...10 miles from us, and H was going there to meet co-worker....last night H mentioned he had gotten a map to this co-workers house from him....now this kind of hit me hard, as H supposedly helped this co-worker move around x-mas time last year, came back early from our visit to my parents to do it....at the time I was anxious about it, but didn't say a word. So last night, my first thought was, "If you helped him move in December, why do you need a map to his house in that tiny town now?".....I still have trouble with the answer to that one! but I didnt say a word, didnt even raise an eyebrow, just acted "as if" nothing was out of the ordinary. This morning as H was getting ready to leave at 6 am (he got up at 4:30 to have time to call OW), I hugged him, and frankly tears started to roll down my cheeks and I said "I feel real insecure"....H got very angry, said I should check at work because he was going w/Eric (co-worker)....I told him I wouldnt be checking, and he said "I want you to"...He seemed quite angry, I don't know why that would make him angry.....I said I was sorry to have upset him, and "please don't be angry"....he did reply "I'm not" in a gentler, calmer voice. I don't know why he gets so angry....I do know anger is a secondary emotion that "covers" true emotions like fear, hurt, frustration, etc., (can't remember if there are 4 or 5)....so probably the answer lies there in....hmmm, is guilt one of them? not sure........
but obviously, that seems to be a cheeseless tunnel

I am having a hard time today, I'm kind of weepy any way because it's "that time of month" ( I know that sounds sexist, but I still have trouble sometimes)....and yesterday I went home sick after lunch with a terrible upset stomach, I thought it was something I ate, but by evening I ached all over and had a temp, so I don't know....H complained of the same thing earlier in the week, so maybe we've shared a bug....spent the whole afternoon, evening and night in bed....not for fun, either.

so, all I can see to do right now is to keep on trying to make things good/fun between us and at home, to avoid mention of his escapades/OW, and to focus more on getting a life of my own.

Maybe I need to give myself a break today while I'm still not feeling 100%......

It's interesting to note though, I'm still not afraid about H leaving....I hope that's gone for good.

For what it's worth, OW is here at work today, so H was being truthful this time, maybe that's why he got so angry, out of the frustration.....
thank god she's here. It's just that he's told such huge lies so many times, when I trusted him so completely.....that is a very big hurdle to get over, especially when I know he hasnt ended it........

I remember when we had the "blow up" on vacation and H said "you HAD this won, now I don't know".....I keep hoping it still isnt back to square one.....
Even though I'm not afraid, and I do feel like I will be ok, I still want H and our M..........

H has a job interview monday.....I think he would have a good shot at it if it's something he wants.....he would have to drive through the little town where OW lives to get to work....don't know how good or bad that would be....MIL thinks it would be really bad....
I want to think that the chance for him to get away from working in the same place as her would outweigh the negatives.....of course for all I know, the b---h will follow him there, it's about the same distance drive and as a nurse I'm sure she could find a position......

Hi Deb,
I have to make this short as I am at work. Perhaps you need to NOT tell H anything about how you are feeling about insecurities, etc..? This goes right along with not talking about his problems/OW. 'Cause if you "say" you are feeling insecure, it brings it ALL up again. Call a girlfriend and/or use this BB to vent your insecurities and anger about all of this. That is what I did ... and it does work! (At least it worked for me.) And then "turn around" and keep that smile plastered on your face for your H ! ...Well for the most part at least!

I am also wondering if this might be a time that you need to "pull back" and not be so "forward" with your H? If he doesn't initiate intimacy, etc.. stay away from it. Depending on what he really is feeling right now, he probably just feels "pressure" from any kind of "advances" he perceives you are making on him. Just my perception. Again you know your H best ....

By the way... during that time when your H ended up being gone for three hours..I think that maybe after one hour of setting at home by myself... I would have been out the door, doing my own thing. I would have made sure that I returned AFTER he got home!

Hi TC....thanks, I believe you are absolutely right.....I do need to just back way off for a while, with saying I feel insecure...yup, that just brings it all up....and with sex, everything but being pleasant/friendly....I need to get in the habit of being gone more when H is gone....kind of hard w S around...........

I'm never sure how much to tell h....what do you think ( or any one else) do I say "I'm going such and such at such and such a time" or do I just leave if he's not home? do I say where I went or just not bring it up unless h does? this will be somewhat of a 180....I believe it gets to H some, as one time months ago S was in the backyard and I was in the shower when H came home, and he came looking for me and made the comment that "it seemed like no one was home" and seemed kind of "lost" when he said it.....

Deb - just write a note to H, saying you went out and will be back in a few hours. That seems like plenty.

I agree with TC. Go for it!

Nitaf

Questions, questions, questions! So should I apologize for being so clingy this morning, or just let it go??????

I'm kind of leaning towards just letting it go so as not to draw anymore attention to it....

Do you all think, besides not initiating anything right now, that I shouldnt be doing expressions of affection (cards, etc)? I havent done much since before vacation, although I did stick a scratch paper note in his lunch monday that said "ILY, thinking of you, hope you have a good day"....that's the 1st I've done since before vacation.....I hadnt done anything for quite sometime then, and then kind of started back up when he came home and gave me the line about it being all over and I was an incredible person, and thanks for never giving up, and I was the one he loved, he'd come to realize, and he couldnt imagine his life without me, we could have another 25 good years together, and blah blah blah blah.....kissed my hand, cried, held me for hours, told me he loved the love notes and emails, and please keep them on. Put on his wedding ring, told me no more phone calls, no more nothing with her....most of that lasted all of a week, except he still wears his ring, and the week of vacation alone was great other than his 3-hour going out.

Dang, now that I think about it, no wonder this mess makes me so nuts. I could kick his behind and strangle him. How can he change like this?????? I still don't think he was making all that up......
Has any one else see these huge back and forth swings?
What do they mean and how long do they last?

At this point I can't imagine how I will ever be able to trust him again. That's really frightening

Don't bring this morning up - don't put yourself in the position of apologizing often for things that you SHOULDN'T have to apologize for.

I'd lighten up on the cards, notes, etc. I am not sure about stopping them completely - he might like them. But too many would be pursuing.

I f you keep acceting blame, he's gonna keep allowing you to accpet it.

Nitaf

TC, I would love to hear more about your H's "turn around" when you have time.....and if it's not too painful....

another question.....I'm starting to wonder if part of the key to resolving this whole mess the way I want to is going to hinge on just ducking my head, gritting my teeth, and waiting it out...calmly and patiently. I am thinking I'm seeing here on the board that many of the folks who "make it" just put on blinders, grow a very thick skin, and keep on trudging forward, slowly, but never throwing in the towel. Is that accurate, or just my wishful thinking?

I swear it seems like forever that this has been going on, but I can't look forward and see that it will be this way in a year, given the changes that have taken place so far in our M and OW's increasing (based on what H said a month ago) demands and impatience.......

thnaks, dfb and nitaf....I think you're both so right....it helps me get my head on straight (-er, anyway!)

Deb,

I am so right there I am literally breathing your air.

I won't take up space on your thread venting my toxic fumes, I'll post on my own thread.

I woke up today just feeling a heaviness on my heart which in the past has meant that H and OW are in thick.

I sent H an e-mail becuz I didn't even feel like talking to him.

Today dbing feels like a big game I have to play and I aint sure if H is such a prize. I am supposed to be the prize, but I sure don't feel like no prize. This game s**** and I am just plain weary of playing it.

sorry I am not much comfort, just another weary dbing soldier

Pam

Hey Deb,
You know, something that you wrote struck me and I wonder if it is having an impact. H seemed to really be coming around when you were giving him notes and emails and stuff. You say you have dropped off a little bit..does that have anything to do with the conversation you had with him in which he said it was over with OW?

Meaning, you had that conversation and you started to relax a little bit and H assumed that meant that you only did those things to "lure" him back home?

I was thinking that a lot of times when it seems that one person has completely changed, it is usually a combination of one person pulls back a little, the other reciprocates, the first person then pulls WAY back and the other reciprocates. Etc. A very bad cycle to get in.

I think the thing that was drawing him so irresistably to you was the fact that the feelings he had with you were SO MUCH better than the feelings he had with OW. You were happy, bubbly, planning dates, seducing him, loving him unconditionally, and being a safe place to fall.

Personally, I think that you saying that you are feeling insecure is totally legitimate and that is the very least he should expect but, hey, I'm not your husband. (although not for lack of trying.)

When you ask that, he feels guilty and shamed (one thing you have told us about your H is how important his sense of pride in himself is) and BAM, all of a sudden the feelings he gets with OW 'feel' better to him. Even though she is a shrieking nutcase--by his description. She is shrieking on BEHALF of him; is on his side.

So what I am asking you is whether you think that there are things that you are doing differently that you could start doing again. They were clearly working like magic! Focusing on him (and especially him with her) will get ya nowhere. I think that one of the things that felt so good about being the Red Hot Mamma was that it empowered you and gave you a sense of control over the situation. If you lose touch with the Mamma, you may start to feel defeated.

Plus, it would be easy to think that (after his revelation) that the hard part was over and you could relax and get back to life with H. Maybe this is when the Mamma really needs to kick it in gear??

I don't know, I am just throwing out some suggestions here that focus on YOU and what you can do, cause I can hear your helplessness all the thru the bb and I hate it!

So ask yourself tonight, when H gets home, What Would the RH Mamma do?

Hugs,
Honey

Hey Pam, I hear you soldier!!!!this crap gets so wearing, doesnt it? I understant the heaviness in your heart, also....that's hard to explain, but I pretty much get the same thing when "it's" on again....intuition? I don't know....right now it's kind of at a "mid" weight.....

Hang in, Pamila.....

Hi Honeypot....you have given me some really good food for thought here, and maybe hit on something.....I was just reading on Lyreals new thread about LL's, and thinking that I'm sure that one of my H's top ones, if not the top, is Words of afirmation/affection.....I believe he has a deep seated need for this, and never got much acceptance/unconditional love from his parents as a child, thus this deep seated need that leaves him so vulnerable....I havent done as much when I sensed he was back in contact w/OW, because I didn't want to be pursuing.....but I think he needs some pursuing....I think he will always need some pursueing, even though he usually rejects my words of affirmation/admiration...so what would red hot momma do? she'd probably be giving him lots of little cards and things....coming on to him, even if he rejects it.....lots of hugs, jokes, smiles, not taking things too seriously....just kind of "going with the flow" and taking advantage of every opportunity to let him know how great he is....even if he rejects it.....
hmmmmmm......I don't know, backing off maybe isnt working.

what red hot momma would do was "take a shot" at whatever, and then back off at the moment if he said "no".....but then come back quickly.....and he actually said one time in the last couple of months that "I know you love me no matter what"....this was during one of their "out" spells....so maybe that's what I need to try again....

It is kind of a vicious cycle, he pulls back some from me, towards her I think, I pull back from him, he seems to pull back further, and so on and so on.....

One of the few things I do know for certain in this whole mess is that he felt distant and shut off/out in the past....hmmmmm.....so maybe mamma does need to start turning the heat up again.

Deb,
I have a lot to learn from you.

As I was reading that, I thought to myself "I should be doing these things too..after all, I am the one complaining about lack of sex. Why am I not bouncing back so quickly?!"

Just wanted you to know that you are an inspiration to me (and others I betcha) and I am hereby giving MYSELF the Mamma Challenge.

This will be SO HARD to do but how can I give you advice that I wouldn't take myself?

Good luck and aint it a scorcher today...whew.

Love,
Honey

Hi Honeypot! you always cheer me up, frankly. I've been thinking since you posted, that it was kind of weird, but when I was "hotter" a while back, I was in a better mood because I was having fun.....although it became obvious that I had to find a balance, because H actually told me things like "I like sex but not 24/7" and "you're making something that should be wonderful and fun into another chore

" which was certainly not good to hear, BUT on the other hand, I know when I first started dbing H thought it was all a come on to get him back, etc....that the interest in sex was just an act....and that I didn't really want him, I just didn't want a D. I honestly don't think he believes those things anymore...

Frankly, there have been times when I was frustrated and disappointed from H's lack of response, but that helped me understand how frustrated he must have been sometimes over the years.....

ummmmmmm.....maybe my frame of mind is improving, because just thinking about it is making red hot momma peek her head out again, making me want to go home and get naked and just snuggle up in his strong warm arms and be happy. he really is a sexy guy. maybe on some level he senses that and that's what he was responding to? I don't know.....sigh.....hope he's in the mood for just snuggling at least.

Yep, it's a scorcher today, and I don't mean sex, Honeypot! LOL

TC, you mentioned earlier you'd lost a lot of weight. How did you do it? I'm still kind of at a stand still and finding that frustrating!

Hi Deb,
Yes, the weight loss was a side affect of my "worrying". Some people eat more when they are worried or depressed. I ate (usually) once a day. I didn't have an appetite at all. I also always tried to make exercise a priority in my daily schedule. Our driveway is almost a half mile long. So early in the morning I would walk the driveway up and back and in the evening I would walk around the neighborhood...anywhere from 2-4 miles. Making sure that I got that exercise really helped my stress levels. I did an awful lot of praying and ALSO chanting to myself what you were talking of just yesterday..."Let Go And Let God!" during my walking times. The good thing is that I have been able to keep that weight off. I just continue to watch how often I eat and try to exercise at least three times a week.

Walking is GREAT exercise! Maybe you could alternate between doing that and "taking off on your mini-ramblings" while your H is gone at "work" or running his "errands"?

I'm kind of going in circles here, trying to figure out what to do next. It has also occured to me that maybe I over reacted to H's "coming back" a month ago...I was so ecstatic I could have danced across rooftops. Maybe that scared him back into his MLC tunnel? I don't know.....I do know it seems like every break up they have is "bigger"....

What do you all think about if he takes a different job but has to drive through her little town? i don't know ....

Hi TC...I used to walk a lot...and I need to get back to it....I have been doing the "walk off pounds" videos since about the 1st of the year, and they have helped...I worked up to the 3mile tape...and just got a new set for abs, but so far I can only do the one mile of that one....I like to walk outside, but it's so hot miserable and mosquito infested here right now, the tapes are almost preferable....I think the worrying helped me to lose wt also, along with trying a lower-carb diet....I just want to get more off and get firmed up. Of course, I want everything ....not NOW, but 2 months ago!!!!!LOL

You are right again, TC....I do know exactly what's going on, so I don't have blinders on....and I'm choosing to handle it as I am right now....I've even told H those exact words in my more frustrated momements.....
the relaxing part is right, I'm sure....I find it so hard, though, I think I probably come from a long line of folks who are worriers (undiagnosed anxiety disorder!) and it is real work for me to "let go and let god", and being the "fixer" that I am, "getting out of the way" is just as hard. But I think you're right, I've been mulling this over along with the post from Honeypot earlier, and I think in part that is what H responds to, that when I'm more focused on what's good/fun, whether it's sex or just relaxing together or writing little cards and notes, I'm more relaxed because I'm focused on something more positive, and I'm having more fun.....so that has to be obvious....I think in turn H relaxes some and responds better....I think he has a huge amount of guilt to work through, and his being "uptight" feeds that, and vice versa. I hate to say it, but I'd bet he feels as much guilt to OW as to me. Maybe not, I don't know, I just know he's struggling with a lot.

So, yeah, I need to really work on incorporating a new mantra into my mind: "let go, let god, relax, I don't have to do it NOW"

MMMMMM MMMMMM GOOD!

I'd been thinking about Red Hot Momma needing to come back to the surface since I read Honeypot's post this afternoon...just got back from picking up S and running him home....H was already home, about an hour earlier than I expected....he looked kind of like he didn't know what to expect (maybe that's good?) I went to him, put my arms around him, and pulled him up close, put my head on his shoulder and then against his cheek and just "snuggled"...told him I'd been thinking of this all day, and wanting to feel his arms around me, and missing him.....and he.....put his arms around me, slid them down my back, pulled me close and held me for a few minutes....and he didnt seem at all resistant to doing it

....although he kept saying things like "unh-uh" and "no sir" when I told him I'd been thinking of it all day, etc....I told him I wanted to snuggle him more and wished I didn't have to come back to work, and he mentioned that he was very tired since he's gotten up at 4 am (yeah, so quit the damn phone calls already!)....don't know what he was thinking?????? I told him it was ok I was beat too, but just holding him would be so nice...then he asked me what time I would get home....I always think that has to do with his damn phone calls...maybe it does, but then again maybe it doesnt....

All I know is that Red Hot Momma does LOVE being in his arms........THE best place in the world........ and as a rule, he seems happy to have her there.

Now see?!! The "Morphing Momma" is really getting it! You ARE "morphing" (continuing, as expected)... and that light bulb IS getting brighter.

Dang, he really is one sexy guy. How could I have been such a damn dummy before? sigh........

Let's hope so!!!!! It's way past time to get that bulb turned up on high! I was thinking as I posted though, how "right" and "great" it feels to be in his arms like that.....that is the way things are supposed to be. I hope he feels it too, but I think he must.....as I said, he didn't seem to object at all!!!! Frankly, those are the kinds of hugs and snuggles and kisses we had many many years ago when we were dating. Obviously it worked then, and it seems to work now.....

I guess I have to admit though, he does complain occasionally about these kinds of hugs (hmmmm, when we were dating we used to call them "holdeds"...don't know why)--says they get him distracted and he can't remember what he's doing and doesnt get anything done. I'm thinking that's a good thing as long as it's not tooooooo much!

Hi deb,

Your H and mine are definitely alike, in personlities. So, I can relate when you say you need to pursue him. I agree with you with Hs who have issues with pride, they like to be pursued. My H has never been pursued before, he pursued me and he pursued OW so no one really ever pursued him.

Come to think of it, I imagine H as someone whom I have a major crush on. How do I flirt with him? How do I get him to notice me? To fall in love with me? I tried to imagine way back when H pursued me 9 years ago. I just broke off with my exBF then, I was a basket case, I didnt want to do anything with men. Then H came into the picture and pursued. I didnt respond for at least one half years until one day I melted and amazed at his patience pursuing me.

So maybe the trick is to travel back to your early days and put yourself in the position of someone you want to pursue. There is a website on love tactics which teaches how to wint the one you want but you have to buy the system. Try this www.lovetactics.com. I found it a bit informative.

Just remember, if you "pursue" and you get a negative response (regularly) you will definitely want to pull back. It does not matter what your H was like "before" all of his "craziness". As much as you might be "sure" that he needs/wants your attentions, it is just the opposite.

The "Pride" that BnB spoke of really is a common denominator among MOST men. Sure, most ALL men like to be pursued. (THAT is a very big "ego stroker"!) You just need to really know how to read the signals they are giving out at THIS totally crazy time in their lives.

Most times , if they are in another R, "pursuing" just makes them feel guilty (and ALL kinds of other feelings) that they don't/can't deal with.

I have found that when I "pulled back" that I was able to "stroke" that ego by making sure I said something positive about his work or anything he did for the kids or around the house every day. That NEVER got a negative response. He just kind of looked at me and didn't say anything ... at first! Later I learned that he WAS listening, 'cause I heard him say something to a good friend of his, how I liked it when he did "such and such" ... you could tell that he was proud of what he did. This was a "safe" way to make sure my H knew I was thinking very positively of him and giving him his "strokes". Again, the "key" is knowing how to read the signals your H is giving off ...

Have a great day, Deb!

Deb,

You have gotten lots of good advice.

The thing I love about you is that you are always willing to try something that you think might work. You don't waste a lot of time feeling sorry for yourself, you just move on to trying the next thing that you think might work. I admire that in you.

I forget who it is that wants to marry you, but I might be next in line

Let's have a good day today, ok?

Pam

Dear Totally (and fogive me Deb for my hostage taking)

I have gone back and spent some time reading your old thread, but I am not all the way done yet.

You have given very wise advice to Deb and I see how you have grown since the time your thread first started. If you ever get the chance I would apprecite any input you could give to my sitch.
Here is the link, I think
http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB40&Number=735276&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=4

thanks,
Pam

Tc, come and see me when you get a chance.

Thanks, Nitaf

Me too, TC!

Hi all, I've just got back to post, it's been so busy this weekend that I didnt even get online. This has been a weird weekend, and I can use some help sorting out/thinking through and deciding if I should do anything different.....

H and I were so Busy this weekend doing catch-up chores that we are both worn out, and had no time for "togetherness"....didnt even get in a movie.....I hate that, it just leaves me feeling empty...I miss our time together

. Plus S had a friend stay overnight and that further complicates life!!!

I've been a little more reserved in my "pursuing", and not initiating, but "suggesting"....still being pleasant and noticing H, expressing appreciation for things he does and his "attibutes"....hugs and smooches, etc....
Friday night, H initiated ML, but wasnt as "up for it" as he is sometimes. A good time was had by both, however....afterwords I commented about it being nice, and H said "well, you said you wanted me so I thought I would try to accomodate"

....is said something about not wanting to pressure him for sex, and he said "it was my idea"...and I kind of chuckled and said "oh, yeah, I guess I don't have to worry when it's your idea"....and he agreed.

Saturday, H went to "work"? and I stayed home, because S had friend over and I was cleaning out the pantry....a hideous job, that I swear gave me post traumatic stress because a mouse got in there and made a nest. I threw out a large garbage can of food, cleaned and disinfected everything, recaulked where the crtter might have come in, and while everything was out redesigned the interior to have vertical pull out bins, which I've always wanted, figured out how to make them, bought the stuff and have gotten 2 made (one to go) and some of the stuff put away and organized....but what an awful job....It's still not done, but I'm proud of myself for tackling it....and getting as far as I have....

anyway, H gets home from "work" and I'm working in the kitchen....looks and acts sad....gets a beer from the fridge, sits down at the table, and starts to talk....H talks about that if we put extra clothes, etc, in D's room that we cant very well use it for a guest room (he's been thinking about this, obviously" but that if we get the basement finished he guessed we could make a guest room there....how we need to finish sorting and "dejunking" the basement and garage, and how he would like to build a detached gargage/workshop.....this all sounds like some movement towards reconnection to me.....he cant be planning to leave when he's thinking about all this stuff on his own......then it really got weird, as H somehow directs the conversation to my old boyfriends, (weird, why would he do this? we've been married for 25 years?) says the old bf who was at D's wedding would leave his wife in a minute for me, he's sure of it????????????I told him I didnt see that, H said it was one of those things you can't see unless you're on the outside of the sitch....then he commented about my other old BF being thatn one's supervisor....and why hadnt I married that guy? why hadnt I married the one who was at D's wedding? H said he was just Mr. Rebound, because I took up with him after my fiance and I had broken up....told him that he wasnt, that I didn't need a rebound, I could have had the other guy back if I'd wanted him (true) and that I knew I loved H the first time we went out....I told H about having looked xfiance in the eye and being able to tell him "no" when he asked if I still loved him several months after we broke up....H got kind of a surprised look on his face....I don't think he said much....but H talked about this guy having brought a vacum cleaner to our house after we were married ( I have no memory what so ever of this) and about him coming to our house one time when H was gone, I was pregnant w/our D....a girlfriend who was also pregnant had driven 50 miles in the dead of winter with her two young boys across deserted country roads against the insistance of her H to come see me....My ex was her H's supervisor at the time and was working in the area, I'm sure my friends H told him and asked him to keep an eye out....well, she went to leave and her car wouldnt start, and here comes X to start her car....he had to have been watching....nothing went on, just said "hi, how are you" and he left.....
But is this weird or what? WHY so much focus now, all at once, on H's part about guys I havent had contact with for 25 years or longer????????????I just told H that I'd always loved HIM and that I had not needed a Mr. Rebound......weird weird weird weird weird......It's almost as if he's trying to reassure him self in some way, but what about????at one point H even had a tear running down his cheek....he sat and drank about 3 beers then went and watched a little tv, never did mow the lawn. I went and watched a little with him, then we went to bed and passed out from tiredness....

yesterday, I kept working on the pantry, H tried finish mowing, and I swear the devil is out to get him/us even in this kind of stuff.....the wheel fell off of H's push mower....and his trimmer absolutely refused to start...both had been fine a week ago. Plus, Friday the wheel fell off of H's riding garden tractor.....how strange is that? Especially considering that one of H's big complaints is that our lives are too complicated and our place is too high maintenance.....anyway, we were going to grill out, I told H I would just cook inside and he should just come in and relax since everything had been so frustrating and topsy turvey....H seemed grateful and did just that......

This afternoon H has a job interview for that 1st resume he sent out....he would have to drive through "her" little town on his way to work, and I have no guarantee she wouldnt follow him there...although what H would like is for them to open an office here and hire him to administer it....which is not outside of the realm of possiblity, because they used to have an office here but " couldnt find the right people" to sustain it....H will have to go through her town to go to the interview, for all I know they will have a tryst opportunity before or after...she may be off work today waiting for him....
H did tell me just before vacation that getting away from OW was a major reason he was wanting to look for another job...I havent heard much for the last 10 days about out-of state-jobs, and now he talks about things we "need to do" or he "wants to do" to our home...I don't know what to think....

I know too much pursuing would be really bad, but I'm thinking I'm going to keep doing some little things, maybe a few cards, candy, etc....When they broke up and H told me it was all over 6 weeks ago, he told me the love notes and cards helped, and that he liked e-mails....so my thought is that I should "act as-if" they were through and keep doing some of what h said he liked/helped. I will watch closely and back right off....
I've ignored his "antics", which I expect are related to OW, and not said a word about any of it for at least a week...I plan to keep doing that.

I am focused on trying to notice things he does and express appreciation for them every day, and to mention little things about him that I like/admire....I plan to keep doing this, as he does seem to respond positively....now he will pull me close and give me nice tender kisses in the kitchen, etc....didn't use to do that...so I think that's a baby step....

Does some of this sound like "reconnection" to you all?

What on earth is with the old (and I do mean old!) boyfriend stuff?

I am still not afraid of him leaving, so maybe that is permanent....although I still cant imagine how I would manage financially.....

I lurked on Bnb and Pamila's threads this morning, will try to post to you gals a little later. I swear you sound like you are living in my skin...you poor things, LOL!

This weekend h made the comment that he "hated feeling stuck" in reference to his current job, but I've come to see that many of his references have more than one point. On vacation I told him that I loved him enough to let him go, so maybe that is a good thing.....

Thanks Ellie, it helps to know someone else has seen this. It just caught me so off guard. I have NEVER given him ANY reason to think I would cheat on him....Never looked at anyone else....although I did tell him recently, cant remember where we were, that he was the best looking guy there and that I knew because I'd checked them all out....but he had to know that was nothing serious.

If I wanted to be with one of those other guys I could be, and H has to know that, so it has to be obvious that he is the one I want to be with, at least I would think so....I am still just amazed that it would even come up.

It is so good to know someone else has some experience with this...and boy I hope it is when they are starting to come back. I just can't believe that he would talk about all the things he wants to do "at home" and be planning to leave, and he KNOWS that I have no intention of living the rest of my life with him seeing OW, so.....

whoa, I just finished reading the first page of HB's "Sermons and Lessons" thread, and my brain is tired!!!! so much there to absorb

I wonder how H's job interview is going? I got an email from him about 10:30, and responded telling him I hoped it went well and that his day went well, and that I was looking forward to spending time w/him....signed it ILY and w/XO's....
got a reply that said "thanks for the send off! See you to night with the news"....I choose to take that as a good response....although I've had similar ones when he's been in tight w/Ow...

this morning he came by my office to get S to take him to SIL's house...and was rushed and short and "grumpy", said I really gotta hurry....I got the impression that he was trying to avoid something/someone, maybe seeing OW when he was in suit and tie, or maybe when he had S with him?????
who knows, and it's proably not worth considering....I am always curious about what sparks his weird behaviors, though.

Ellie, if you read this, I'm curious to know, did you experience your H doing a retreat back to A/Ow after he told you it had ended? or have you seen anyone else have this happen?

I've analyzed and over-analyzed the sitch, and I can't see that I did anything to cause him to run back....I listened a lot, didnt pressure, have to admit I was more than excited!...but I am puzzled by this. My instincts tell me it was fear on his part, and that she is manipulating, issueing ultimatums, etc.....I try to just stay "steady" (keep trying to visualize the northern star) and calm....

on the 5th of June, H came home from work (AKA OW) and came downstairs from changing clothes wearing his wedding ring for the 1st time in a year. I noticed right away, but "said not a word"....in about 1/2 an hour he came to me and "waved" it in my face, said everything was over, he had realized I was the one he loved and someone else realized it too, that he couldnt imagine his life with out me, that he would never leave, that he figure if he put as much effort into our R as he did the other one, we could really go somewhere, told me I was an incredible person, thanks for never giving up, kissed my hand, held me and cried all night, asked me to hold him several time over that weekend, talked about not being able to trust her, how angyr she gets at him and he cant' live with that, how she says she loves him but there are always conditions attached, ....that he want to dance with me.....and then, three days later is back to calling her all the time, I'm sure going to see her, and on and on.......This back and forth stuff is just so hard for me to comprehend....but I'm thinking some other folks have had this happen? they've broken up several times before, and when they get back together I always sense him pulling away from me emotionally, this time I don't sense him pulling as far away, and I even sense him coming back again (emotionally, physically the goofy guy never left).....just weird, and I see you as someone who managed to wade through all this muck and come out on the other side, so really value your experience/views.......

I could give him an ultimatum, have considered it, many times, I don't think I'm afraid to, I just don't think it would work well because he is still so rebellious, he might do just the opposite just to prove that he can....HB mentions in her post that God will speak to a person and tell you what to do and how to do it....I feel like he's saying "keep loving him".........

Hi Ellie, Yes, now that you mention it I recall your "Itchy Butt Theorom" and the story, and I love it, LOL....you are so right, also.....

H is such an enigma right now. I am absolutely convinced he's in MLC....in fact, months ago when I couldnt figure out which end was up, I called the EAP here at work, and as I relayed the sitch, the counselor said "let me guess, he's around/about to turn 50 isn't he"....LOL, if H only knew what a textbook case he is, he'd be insulted. Actually, I think he read a copy of the 6 stages of MLC thread that I had by the bed (in "my stuff", the SNOOP!) and later was saying to me that he thought maybe it was MLC.........

Deb -
no, my H didn't do the "back and forth" but it did take a long time for him to cut the final ties, even after we were doing really well. Just keep being really fun - do something different every day - intrigue him - let him feel he's falling in love with the "new you", not returning to the old R - which is where he got so unhappy in the first place. My H even started calling me by a new name and calling me his "new girlfriend" - so do everything you can to make it seem like the two of you are dating, and like you are a new woman (you are by now, right?

)

Act As If

Ellie

Hi Deb - I love your thread, there is always something here for me too

Ellie - Thanks for the very handy tip - just keep being fun. Slowly

Thanks all....I'm still working on becoming the new "red Hot Momma" woman...I'm working on a more easy going, less serious, more unpredictable person emerging....I have to say it's hard work, but progess is being made....I think I probably have buried the prude I used to be, LMAO!

yesterday H didnt get home from the 3pm job interview until 6:30...it's a 1 hour drive from home, and he had to go through OW's town, so I was becoming quite anxious by the time he showed up....Old Deb would have been angry or tearful or both....New Deb managed to squelch it, and acted "as if" everything was great and just talked about how it went and what he learned, etc....H is not interested in the current opening, but they do have some administrative slots they expect to open up in the next few months that would be just his ticket, and have promised to keep him informed of those and encouraged him to apply that he would be a good canidate.....one of the things this organization is thinking of doing is something H and I always dreamed of doing, that is a wilderness family therapy program....we never could see our way clear financialy to gamble on such a thing, but for H to have the opportunity to develop such a program with a big organization underwriting it would be more than the answer to the wildest dream ever prayed about.....even an admin. slot, and evidently there is a possibility of them reopening the office here in town.....H seems more "up" after just going to the interview than I've seen him a quite a while, which is part of what I was hoping for....
now if OW just doesnt follow him if he goes there.....
actually a couple months from now would be better than now because it gives a little time to make plans financially for the interim period. If this came through, I would see how all this has been a part of God's plan....all the pieces would seem to fall together........not that I'm particularly supposed to see God's plan....

yesterday evening both H and I were really tired (I hadnt slept for some reason the last 2 nights)....S was with SIL, and they went to a late movie, so S didn't get home until 11:30....so we had a few hours to ourselves. H walked on the tread mill, was going to lift weights, then came and sat down at the table and started talking for a while, said he was tired and not going to go back and do weights after all, so we just sat and talked a little while....
about 9:30, H went up to bed, I went up shortly after....As I was getting into bed, H shocked me and said "do you want to be naughty"....New Deb just laughed, took off the nighty she had just put on, asked "is that an invitation" and went and hugged him....and things went from there, well I might add....Old Deb would have not been interested, or "too tired"......
So, H sat and talked with me and initiated sex after I sent him the email wishing him luck on his interview, and telling him how I'd missed having time just to be with him as well as for

this past weekend. He had replied "Thanks for the send off!" to that email....so I'm thinking this is something that worked....a smallish gesture on Hot Momma's part....but he seemed to respond....actually he responded very well, was quite eager....so I need to take note of this.
Take that OW! even if he did stop to see her, he brought the "good stuff" home to me! I sure hope he feels like he got the "good stuff" at home from me, as well.

This morning was rushed, but H was not unfriendly....I was a little more distant, trying to be somewhat mysterious. H brought me coffee, but I'm sure he made his eternal early morning phone call....
today he's here in this office w/OW....this sounds really naughty, but I always like to try to seduce HIM on Mondays when I know he's likely to see her the next day....I don't know if he's noticed that pattern, but last night he was the initiater, so.....
I also like to try to stick some little note or "surprise" in his lunch on most Tuesdays, didn't have time to do that today, so I guess that's a little different.

It is a very delicate balance to find and maintain between "enough" and "too much", both with sex and with distance.....H has complained about too much sex lately, after complaining for years about not enough

, and my distance was a big complaint at "bomb time", although
I've been thinking about what got him the first time years ago, and I know in part it was my independence and his thinking that I wasnt all that invested in him....go figure....

Ok all, I need some opinions here, this talk of "new woman" and dating put a new idea in my head, and it's shocking even to me, I don't know if I should try it or not....I've been thinking of emailing H, asking him how his day is going and telling him I'm thinking of him, thinking of him so much that I had to take something off....

hmmmm....I don't know, is this too forward, in light of his previous complaints about it being "not all about sex"....it's been probably 2 months since I heard that complaint, however.....

what do you think...too much? try it and see what happens?

My H has started this new text message flirting. It is a turn on for him and it makes ml good when it happens. We flirt by text for about 1-2 hrs first, sometimes days b4 we see each other and

.

You know your H better then anyone else. What is good for us (i hope) may not be good 4 u.

Nitaf

Deb

I have tried soooo many times to reply but my computer is still giving me fits! Sorry!

I think you really hit on something when you mentioned that your H loved the "independent" you.

That's exactly what I meant when I said that you should show him with your actions what a wonderful woman you are. He needs to see a confidenent, independent, sexy YOU.

My H once told my sister that he absolutely loved my independence....said in such a way, meaning that he found it desirable. (She, of course, called me immediately and told me!)

Now, what could you do to show him that you are confident and more independent? (Big Hint here: don't talk about, think about, dwell on OW. She's a non-factor in your new life. Let her be your H's burden....and she is you know...a burden.)

Sending this off to you now just in case my computer crashes ....again!

Take care

Dawn

Just poppin in to say "hey." I don't think I've posted to you in a while, but I've still been reading your thread.

I hope you know how lucky you are to have your H still at home, under your roof, in your bed, I am so jealous that you have him still at home and close by so you can get instant feedback on your dbing not to mention ML, once my period is over I get hot to trot

.

I hope you know that I mean that jealousy bit all in a friendly way, I am glad that things are progressing for you.

I guess I am just frustrated with my own sitch, dbing is hard work when you don't live with your H... and I told him he can't move back until OW is gone..so this could take a while.

big hug,
Pam

Hi Nitaf, Dawn and Pam....thanks all for your input....I'm so busy at work today, don't have much time to think about anything else, which is good....I havent sent ANY email to H today, have had no contact w/him....he usually emails me 1st and hasnt, so I'm thinking maybe I'll just "go dark" for today here at work....I would be in trouble if I sent him the email I was thinking of and it somehow got intercepted....I could put it in his lunch on a card or even mail it to him one of these days....so, I guess maybe that's the "independent" streak coming out a little....This is another way in which H is so weird, and it's hard to find a balance....He feels resentful if he has too much responsibility, and yet I believe he feels like he's "just another piece of furniture and a paycheck" (his exact words)if he's NOT needed???????WTF?????
I believe OW's "need/want" for him is/was part of her attraction, but I know he also see's her independence (? I read it as manipulation, but that's another story) as appealing.....who knows.....but anyway, today I think maybe I'll just sit this one out and see what he's like when he gets home at 8:30 tonight.....keep myself busy and occupied.....

Pam, I know I am very lucky (95% of the time, anyway!) that he's still home....I thank God everyday for that blessing....this sounds really screwy considering our current sitch, but the guy still is my best friend and my lover....and we still have what in my book are good times and talks and loving....and fun...I have trouble comprehending what it would be like not to have him there, which may be bad because it could be that it lets this mess go on longer, I don't know.....but then maybe the "good stuff" helps give us a foundation to rebuild on.....

So, hmmmm, now I'm almost talked into emailing him....

Oh, I don't think I ever posted, S heard him call OW last Thursday while i was working late (bleh), said the call was about 10 minutes and his Dad sounded aggravated and irritated, just heard mumbling and the tone of voice, no conversation.....S has told me that just before I found out about A, H used to spend all evening on the phone w/OW while I was at work and was "real cheerful and happy".....maybe ever so very s-l-o-w-l-y this is dying off?

I still havent finished the letter I started to H....I will try to do that when I have time, just to get all my thoughts and emotions in order. don't know if I'll give it to him....

I'm also thinking I might put together a time line for all this and post it in MLC to get some ideas on where he's at....it seems like this has been building for a very long time. Of course if there are a lot of childhood issues involved, it has....

Darn, not a single email from H today....that is unusual....sigh.........don't know what it means.......

Hey all, just thought i'd hop on for a minute...gotta catch up on stuff for work tonight, so not much time....
Pam, you mentioned how I never spent much time feeling sorry for myself, well this evening I think I'm blowing that..maybe not sorry for myself, but incredibly frustrated with H's still being w/OW, and with trying to figure out what to do next (other than strangle one or both of them, that is) The flirting seems to work, being kind of coy, clingyness and angst sure does not work, I think "acts of service" and words of afirmation have more of an effect than he wants to let me know....last night the guy was HORNY....LOL...after I sent him the email that I was missing him and spending time w/him....he's told me he likes cards and emails, but I'm afraid of overdoing it or being too predicable and so pull back...I didn't hear from him at all today, didnt email him...

Do any of you see that I've made progress in my sitch? sometimes it's so hard to see from the inside....

I guess one good thing, the fear is not there....Frustration in MEGA doses, but not fear.......I hope it's gone for good.

Tc, please visit my thread. Which way is up is the name of my thread.

Nitaf

Thanks, BnB & TC, this helps a lot....I get so confused because just as you say, it seems that he "peeks out" and then steps back and then "peeks out" and steps back...again and again and again...at least it has seemed this way to me, although I've had trouble describing it as aptly as you just did....it helps to know this is pretty common...I read the same thing posted by psluke on Pamila's thread....I have a sense that he come out a little further and steps back a little less far each time...I hope that is accurate...

I don't know, sometimes he is so tender and sweet and I hear the laughter in his voice, and see a loving twinkle in his eye when he looks at me, and then in what seems like the blink of an eye he is abrupt and emotionally distant and I have done absolutely nothing different (I've become convinced that these episodes are not from anything i did or didnt do; there are some things that happen because of what I did/didn't do, but they are usually "big" "falling out" types of things, and I'm learning to avoid bringing those on...
I guess I am also learning the best way to handle these, which seems to be to ignore them and keep being warm and friendly but not "overly" friendly...

I can see that I've changed, a lot in a short time, actually. I think I'm more easy going, more fun, less of a worry wart, much more interested in the sensual side of life, and tuned into it and enjoying it more

much more forgiving, more interested in figuring out how to relate to him in a way that meets his needs....
But I am not afraid....still sad at the possibility of having to live my life with out him, but not afraid. Tired, but not blown away, if that makes sense....frustrated and short on patience, but not ready to throw in the towel (strangle him maybe, but not throw in the towel).
I'm very tuned into look for ways to crawl out of and stay out of the predictable "rut" that we let our life become....bleh....I gotta get that overturned, that is slow going....
So, yeah, I guess personally I've come a long long way....

I need to really get to work on weight loss again...I havent gained any back, but it has sure slowed down, and I have a long way to go.....

It may be too pursuing, but I just sent this email to H:

"Hi...I found myself thinking of you and my neck turning red, so I thought I'd just tell you you've been on my mind. hope your day is going well....
I look forward to seeing you!"

I didnt hear from him or email him yesterday....thought of sending him a spicy one and didn't.....last night when we went to bed I told him I'd been looking forward to snuggling him all day, and he said " thanks"....
so, I guess well see how he responds to this one.

maybe my light bulb is being really slow to come on....I'll have to see what the evening is like, but I think I got a really positive response to my email, and H said before he liked emails and that the "love notes" helped....I've backed off when his OW contact picked back up....but maybe I shouldn't back off...more food for thought to consider here...
Gotta sign off and go get S....

I agree with TC.

Nitaf

Deb,
His response is completely positive! a little sexy even- you should totally read this as positive, this is maybe your opportunity to be the one H turns to for fun, comfort and happiness. Enjoy! Make it fun and stop worrying about or reading into his comments or lack of....
sometimes I think we have such difficult complex ideas when theirs are so simple. would nt it be great if we were that simple too

Congrats! defilnitely a positive and I dont think you were pursuing, you were being available and open without pressure.

Shay

Deb,

I've been meaning to ask you this ?, but I don't want to put the crazymaker light on. If you would rather put all this in the past and not answer my ?'s that is fine.

In regards to your H and his OW, how did they meet? Did they always work together?
I remember something about her moving, was it to be close to H, to work with H? Did she divorce her H to be with yours?
Does she have an apt or a house with a mortgage?

I only bring this up becuz I wonder if the reason that your H isn't OW free is becuz he somehow feels responsible or beholden for getting her to where she is now and then "abandoning" her.

Your H may not be financially responsible for OW, but that emotional responsibility may be why he still calls her.

I know that is part of my H's problem, that he feels responsible for leading OW astray.

He still has that stupid apt in Brazil with her name on the lease. He pays for it and she still lives there I think. She couldn't afford to live there on what she makes.

I don't know if it is possible to get out of the lease, it would take her cooperation and I am darn sure that won't be forthcoming.

Ticks me off becuz in Dec he paid OW all the rent $ through June..and now he is back in for another year.

All these are reasons why the BIble says not to commit adultery, becoming one flesh with a woman who is not your wife leads to all sorts of problems, duh.

I have often wondered why my H has never lost his desire for me and why it is so great if he does not want to be home.I can touch his hand and he is ready to go. The man is sooooo totally turned on by me. He always has been. When I go the xtra mile he really goes crazy!!!!

Nitaf

Hi Pamila, I'm just getting a chance to check in here.....

You asked:

Quote:

In regards to your H and his OW, how did they meet? Did they always work together?
I remember something about her moving, was it to be close to H, to work with H? Did she divorce her H to be with yours?
Does she have an apt or a house with a mortgage?

I only bring this up becuz I wonder if the reason that your H isn't OW free is becuz he somehow feels responsible or beholden for getting her to where she is now and then "abandoning" her.

Your H may not be financially responsible for OW, but that emotional responsibility may be why he still calls her.

I don't mind discussing this....

OW moved here from Arkansas a year ago this past November, she graduated from high school in this town, has a mother and at least one, i think 2 sisters here, although she grew up in Guam, according to H, in a military family....her father is deceased....she divorced while she was in Arkansas....her H had an affair and married his OW, according to my H. She came to work here where we've both worked for the last 16 years when she moved up here....her office was right next door to H's, and evidently he was more unhappy than I ever dreamed; Honest to God I was totally clueless....looking back I guess I should have known, but I guess I thought it was just part of what you go through in a life long marriage. OW was living with a BF when she started working here, then she left BF and bought a house in a small town, I believe so she & H would be less likely to be seen....although 20% of our staff lives in that town. So she is the proud owner of a house with a mortgage and a lawn to mow and property taxes to pay, and all that good stuff. Sometimes I wonder what this woman has for brains if she would do all this based on messing around with some guy who's been married 24 years and in the throes of MLC and is still married and living with his family and probably whines alot to her about his hard life, but........?????? Good Heavens! H helped her move last August....I became supicious about the time the EA turned into a PA from what H has said, and I REALLY smelled a rat about the time he helped her move, although it was mid-october before I had proof. I know everybody is sick of hearing about H's wedding ring, but he took it off a year ago about now, just a while before he helped OW move, so I believe that's why his wearing it or not has such huge significance to me.....for a while I would ask him about it and he would make snide and snotty comments, then when I found out about the A, I said something and he said "I don't think I SHOULD be wearing it now, do you?" very angrily....so this kind of sets the background for me to view it as a very important symbol/thermometer of progress in our M

I believe you are abosolutely right about OW manipulating to make H feel guilty about her sacrifices of moving and buying the house. In fact H has said exactly that...and that she is really good at heaping on the guilt. He has said he NEVER said a word or encouraged her to do it in anyway....but still he feels hugely guilty because of it.He has even mentioned her talking about her expectation that he would be living there and paying part of the bills this summer.

H's guilt concerns me greatly....I don't know how to handle it....or help him hadle it more accurately....I believe he does love me and his guilt over "leading her astray" is a big part of what keeps him connected to her, although I know he "loves" her.....
If anybody has any thoughts on how to effectively deal with this, I would sure be interested in them! I'll have to post about last night in a little while....and some ideas I'm having (some times I scare myself with my ideas)

I don't know which feeds the crazymaker more, when H is cheerful and in a good mood, or when he's withdrawn or sad or grumpy....

last night and this morning, H has been really cheerful and happy. It's nice, but I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop and wondering "why" the change in his demeanor...

to recap....yesterday when H got home from work he was cheerful...we went out to do chores and I gave him a quick hug....we were hurrying, and so he wasn't real "amorous"...not distant, but not "into it"....I said "oh, H, do you mean you get tired of having a hot girl grabbing at you all the time...or older woman, I guess depending on how you look at it? (I'm 4 mos older)....he had started to turn away, but I saw the corners of his mouth twitch up in a grin....he just said "well, I don't know"....H walked for 2 hours, I did my tape and watered flowers and picked up the house. When he got home we sat and talked a while, went to bed about 9:30....H was "waiting" when I got to the bedroom....H was "horny"....frankly it was "sex" more than ML, which is ok....H "talked naughty", mentioned that maybe we should think about having sex 2X/day (???????!!!!!) and made a wierd comment afterwards that I've pondered all day. He said "all I ever wanted was to make you come...I didn't think you could" This is strange, because I've been able to have orgasms before....I don't know what to think about his comment, but it makes me wonder if sex -or rather lack there of- is a bigger issue than Mr. "It's not all about sex" wants to admit -or wants me to know. I dont know, it's just all so confusing.....

This morning H was cheerful, but I didn't "mush" all over him....told him last night was great, gave him a couple quick kisses, was cheerful/upbeat, but not real "romantic" or demonstrative....I sent H an email about 10 that just said I wanted him to know I was thinking of him and hoping he had a good day....I got one back about 11 that said "thanks, it's been really busy", and I havent heard another word from him......

I don't know what to think about his attitude, comments, behaviors....i know it can be an exercise in futility to try to figure it out, but I also feel like he's starting to be more open about what's deep in his "heart", and I don't want to miss his messages....any thoughts or input here, anyone?

weird, I made a reply and it wouldnt let me post....guess I'll try again. could be the thread is about to lock, I don't know.....anyway, heres the earlier reply:

Hi Shay, thanks. I thought, and still do, that it was a positive, and I'm going to try to have some fun and even see what happens if I "go after him"....I don't know, this feels kind of risky because it would be definitely pursuing, but I think H likes to be pursued....I'm absolutely convinced it worked for OW, that's what she did when he perceived me as being distant and stand-offish....
I've been having the thought a lot lately that I need to get across the idea that the good, fun, happy things in his life come through our R, not the "other one"...no small task, but I believe if I focus on it, I can make steps in that direction.

I am seriously considering pursuing H almost shamelessly for a couple of weeks to see what happens.....that would be a 180....I have NEVER done that....and then I can do a 180 and stop chasing him and "create a little mystery", right?

I'm thinking of -- unless some wise soul here talks me out of it -- starting off by writing out a list of reasons why he is special to me (I'm trying to get to 101, only have 65 so far) and then printing that off on heavy paper or having it laminated, cutting it into 4 or 6 pieces like a puzzle, and then mailing him one piece a week to his out-of-town office. the last piece he gets will be signed by me.....I know, sounds really corny and teenager-ish, but it's not illegal, immoral or explicity harmful, so, what the heck?

I'm also thinking of buying some bottles with corks and putting romantic messages in them and leaving them for him.....or putting them in his lunch. I actually had 2 ideas for naughty polaroids to put in his lunch, but they're pretty racy so I wont describe them....

I bought some cards to put in his lunch, even wrote 2 of them out, and then darned if I can find where I put the things

. D wrote notes little cards and hid them around the house for her new H to find "eventually"....I might try something like that....

What do you all think?

this may be kind of tough....I'm only at 65 on my list of 101 things and I'm drawing a blank...and I checked for love quotes and poem ideas on the net, and a couple of thoughts hit me....they are so "sappy" or "sacharine" they make me want to barf, (Ogden Nash would be one of my favorite poets, so I run along those lines) and I think, from the notes and emails I've read, OW has copied some or at least "borrowed" heavily (extremely heavily" from them....oh well...I'll figure something out....

This thread will probably lock soon, I guess I should start a new one, but I always feel like I loose my train of thought for a while when I do...
H stopped by my office to pick up S on the way home...seemed rushed....always makes me ASSume he's in a hurry to get home and call OW...probably is...

The fear is still gone, I hope it never comes back, but it is still hard for me to have to gear myself up to go home on Thursdays and hear from S about the phone calls. And they get S down. He needs someone he can mention them to. It's also really hard to go to the basement library/computer room where I know H has his phone cards/ow stuff. I think I will ask him to move the computer to the family room. It doesnt make me as frantic as it used to, but it is still hard. H asked me what time I would be home to night, and I played it cool, I'm so used to telling him everything w/o thinking about it.....tonight I just said I wasnt sure, I had a lot to get done....I think I'm going to leave early and surprise him! I've seen him get shook when he's been on the phone and I came in.
Dang I just wish he'd end this....He said at vacation time it was "in it's death throes".....it's way past time to put "IT" out of it's misery!
One good thing, H talked to a former co-worker and his wife who both work now where H interviewed, although in different towns, and they both said his interview sounded really positive, that when this organization wants a person they will make sure they have a position for them, and to be patient....they feel sure it will come through.....I'm hoping it will help him "break away" from OW, although who knows, she might follow him....

something I wanted to post before I forget: last Saturday when H got home from work and acted "weird/sad" and was talking about my old boyfriends, I went to him, kind of knelt in front of him and hugged him with my cheek (face!) against his and said "I always believed we were meant to be together" I wasnt looking at H, but I believe he was almost crying and nodded his head.

I've also been going to post this from vacation:
The night we had our "tearful discussion" while we were out of state, H talked about D, how much he was missing her and how he had for a long time, that "she was always my little girl and then when she was a teenager she didnt want anything to do with me except when we were out here. Then she was my hiking buddy and we could spend all kinds of time together and talk like we had when she was little. Now even that's gone". H cried and sobbed his heart out so much I even felt sorry for him. MIL has said all along she believes H missing D since she went away to college is part of this. Sound like MLC stuff to anyone? Do you think it would be of any help to do a time line on the MLC forum? has anyone done this?

OK, breathe in, breathe out....relax, get centered, get brave and happy, act as if, go home and see what's going on.........

I did get my list up to 75 though, maybe I'll think of more tonight....

Hi Deb - Your anxiety is so palpable, I can feel it across the ocean

Let it go. Imagine a life without H, and how you will cope. And you will, right? So, now, should the worst happen, you'll be ok, right?

Isn't everything else better? He is at home, and loving. Let the rest go. Be kind to yourself, sweetie.

Slowly

Good Morning all, I guess it's time to move this conversation (or my anxious questions might be more accurate) so it doesnt get locked and lost....so, here's the link to my new thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=748615&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

Please come share your input and insights with me there....I need your guidance now more than ever.

Title of new thread is "Red Hot Momma--STILL seeking and Questioning"

I know, not the greatest, but hey it's Friday and my brain is not all here!