My husband and I have been together for 20 years (college sweethearts) and married for 15. We have 2 boys, ages 9 and 7. My husband turned 40 this past year and he became increasingly withdrawn over the course of the year. He didn’t want to talk to me and was often negative and irritable. He also started working out at the gym 7 days a week, eating a restrictive training diet and participating in a number of running/obstacle/fitness races. While he has always been interested in fitness and racing this was at a much higher level. Over the summer he became incredibly secretive with his phone. He changed his password from our common family password and will not be without his phone at any time. I believe he is having an affair although I have no actual proof.
At the beginning of November my husband told me that he and I have “nothing in common.” That he has never been his “true self" at any time in our relationship and that he needs “freedom and independence.” He then moved out into the guest room. I read Divorce Busting right after this and have not initiated any relationship talks, given him lots of space and not called/emailed/ texted anything unless it was related to the kids. Still, my husband seems constantly infuriated with me. It’s like the fact that I exist is infuriating. He won’t make eye contact with me and will leave a room if I am present. He will not speak to me unless spoken to and then he will answer my question with a single word. Last week, my husband broke his silence and told me that he wants a legal separation and immediately started talking about kids visitation, finances, selling the house, etc. I told him that I believe in our marriage and family but I know that I cannot keep him if he wants to go. I did ask him if he would attend marriage counseling to be absolutely certain that every option has been exercised and because we need to understand the impact of him leaving on the kids. He agreed but said “it won’t change my mind.”
It seems to me that my husband is having a midlife crisis (though I guess I cannot be sure). Everything I read suggests that, if this is the case, it’s his journey and there is not much I can do. I absolutely want to save my marriage and keep our family together. Support, advice and experience are all welcome. Thank you.
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmMichele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmKeep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1WAS showing you positive signs? WAIT - READ THIS!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2772942#Post2772942Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I will offer advice but it is nothing compared to what the "regulars" of this board can tell you. They are saints and much more experienced with this type of thing. I am in a similar situation with my wife since July, to which yours sound similar. I will share what I have been told.
Understand This is not your fault. It is difficult to grasp but true. You did not break him so you cannot fix him.
He will say things that blame you for everything and point out your character flaws. You may even get blamed for the color of the sky on any particular day. The best action is to deflect and not let him see it visibly get to you. Go in another room and unleash if you need to. Do not argue or even acknowledge the daggers he throws. Try and give an empathetic response when a bold statement is made (like "I love you but not in love with you"). Examples are "That must be difficult for you" or "That must hurt inside." NEVER give a rational answer to an irrational statement. Use the above technique.
There will be good and bad days for each of you. Do NOT let his moods/actions control yours. I let that happen to me for far too long. It takes time but you will get there. If you do let it get to you, they will continue indefinitely. Think of him as a teenager, which is where his mindset may be. Any statements that are contrary to his wishes right now will be met with intense lashing out (which is what a teenager would do).
If it is true MLC, he realizes what he is doing but buried so deep in his brain, which is flooded with new ideas/adventures/thoughts that it will not bee seen until the awakening, which can take a very long time.
Write down your boundaries for what you want with regards to behaviors, conversations, actions and anything else that is important to you. Keep it handy and you don't necessarily need to share it with him. There is a good thread regarding boundaries somewhere on this site.
Do for you. For yourself, exercise, eat right, get in shape and dress nice-even if just going to the store. It will help you feel better and will prepare you for whatever happens in the future. Find a new hobby and channel that negative energy there.
Pleas keep us filled in, there is an outstanding community here.
Hi
sorry you find yourself here but welcome to the board- it is most helpful here
Hamburg gave some great tools for you to use
I could really relate to you and remember my XH doing some similar things
leaving the room when I walked in, getting fit, dying his hair, new clothes, being secretive, getting a motorcycle and staying out till all hours of the night while still living here in our home
You are right there is nothing much that can be done..
He has to figure things out-some will- many will not
please protect the credit cards, the bank accounts and watch finances carefully
they have little restraint and regard for money and spend like mad
some go into debt
Many will have affair partners usually a person who is addicted or has serious issues
they sometimes pick younger, a person with issues, psych problems ect.
women they can rescue-
some things that helped me cope were taking good care of me
getting and using a support group and therapist
we also tried M counseling and mine said the same that it would not help, and he was right--it did no good
sometimes a therapist may not understand MLC and encourage a Divorce
You may want to do a few consultations alone with therapist to see if they can be on the same page as you
don't let him pick the therapist-
they will choose one that will validate their cause
last thing for now
keep your kids safe-
the MLCEr becomes a careless parent and some get worse b4 better-
its a long road
keep posting and reading
Hamburg- I am sorry you find yourself in the same situation but I thank you for the advice.
Peacetoday- Thank you for your perspective. I will remember to keep a close eye on the finances.
Has anyone actually had productive marriage counseling with someone in MLC?
Has anyone actually had productive marriage counseling with someone in MLC?
Can you talk your 9 year old into being an adult?
MLC is a growing process and no amount of talk is going to make someone grow up faster.
Has anyone actually had productive marriage counseling with someone in MLC?
Can you talk your 9 year old into being an adult?
MLC is a growing process and no amount of talk is going to make someone grow up faster.
Skip the counseling then?
Hi Kate. Sorry you find yourself here but also glad you found us. I know I would be doing so much worse if I hadn’t found this board. Re: MC. Honestly... I would skip it for now. MC only really works if both people are going with the same goal in mind. Your H has clearly said it won’t work. I’d believe him. He is not in the frame of mind for it to work. He will only go to prove to you it is a pointless endeavour and you will have wasted your money and time. It could also make things worse and give him more resolve to continue down the path he has started on.
My best advice would be to do what everyone on here will advise you to do. GAL...DB... for you. Steer clear of R talks and do your 180s. Figure out your part in all of this and try to change those things. Act “as if”. Your H is still in the home so you have a great opportunity here to turn things around. My H was gone before I even knew what was happening so I didn’t get that chance. Take advantage. Let him go. Stop pursuing him (even in subtle ways) as it will force him to double down on his position. I know it is hard. I know everything in you wants to hang on and convince him he isn’t seeing things clearly. He thinks he is and you telling him the opposite will only make him more sure. I wish I had had this information in the beginning...things might be different. Heed the advice on here and try your very best to put it into action.
Very difficult to go through this at any time of year let alone the holidays. Sending you lots of (((Hugs))). Good luck!!!
Kate,
I am really sorry that you are here but you have come to the right place.
I think you should request to have your post moved to the new comers board as there is more traffic over there. Everyone in the beginning believes their spouse is going through MLC.
Based on your post it is most likely your husband is having an affair. Most likely with the someone he works out with hence the quote "we have nothing in common".
MC is a waste of time when one of the parties is in an affair. You can attend MC down the road if and when he comes around.
The only thing you can do is work on yourself right now and become the best Kate you can be.
Thanks for the advice. I will put the MC on hold unless my husband specifically asks about it.
Kate11,
Welcome to LBS world.
I know is not something you want or us here
Especially during the holidays.
I can tell you one thing that was told to me
A year from now you will be better emotionally
Last year I put a Christmas tree last minute for
My Trios. But this year I decorated outside
And we decorated tree.
I won't say it will be 100% great but you be better than
This year.
Just listen to all the ones that been here for years.
They will give you some great advice.
Just remember is not your fault
There's nothing you could have done
Just protect yourself financially and mentally
Because MLCers will make you feel like your
going crazy. And trust me your not.
We are here. And remember
One day at a time.
And is ok to cry, yell, be sad is
ok to have all these feelings.
Happy Holidays
How do you deal with the silent treatment when you are living in the same house?
Ever since BD my husband has been giving me the silent treatment. He avoids eye contact, leaves a room if I enter and hasn't talked to me at all. Even about mundane stuff. I have been giving him lots of space. Not trying to engage him in conversation (relationship or otherwise) but I do still acknowledge his existence with a "good morning" if we see each other in the morning and a "hi" in the evening when he comes home from work if I happen to be downstairs. I am greeted with silence. I have been trying to go for cordial roommate. However, with the holidays upon us we will have several days of family togetherness (myself, husband and the kids). Any tips for dealing with this?
You have to learn to treat him like a roommate. Ignore his behavior and continue as you have been. When he sees that his behavior is not bothering you, he may change it up. As for family, I would let them see him and his behavior for themselves. Do not apologize for his behavior, but you can explain a bit of it to them after they have experienced it. He may "put on an act" for those who are there for the holidays, but there's nothing you can do to change him at this point.
Be yourself, try to enjoy the holidays and do things for yourself and your family. You can ask him to join in, but if he doesn't, then so be it...it's his loss. Try to keep the focus on you and your kids. Leave him to sulk in his little world.
I am going to suggest that you do a search on the name HaWho and read her threads. Her h acted quite a bit like yours and he was living in the home until last year. I am posting the link to her last thread. Her previous links will be at the top of each new thread.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2807982&page=1
Hello.
Welcome to this super place. Sorry that you are here. You have gotten some good advice to start with. Read as much as you can here. Knowledge is powerful. You will make mistakes. We all do, but hopefully this site will help you avoid making more.
IMO, counseling is of no benefit now. Unless he is inboard or even open to it, it will not have any chance of working, or v little chance. In your shoes I would drop it. Don't mention it again and if H brings it up tell him you have changed your mind about it. But you could see someone on your own if you think it could help.
I would just add that before you start your journey be clear about your motivation. Many LBS have a knee jerk reaction to save the M just because they realise they are about to lose it. Understandable but you need to explore the question deeper to be clear why you want to stand. Knowing that truly will help resist when the going gets tough.
And I agree that you should know your boundaries and what actions that will occur if crossed. Standing does not mean accepting everything until they come around. In fact that is counter productive.
Lastly I remind you that you have time. Do not rush in on your white horse in metal armour to saveyour M. Sometimes doing nothing is the best action. In the beginning we put ourselves under pressure to do something now NOW, before itis too late. Nothing can turn this around immediately. There is no magic switch. You can only win this in the long term. I know that is hard to hear and almost impossible to heed but if you can listen it could save you from some mistakes.
Best wishes
I’m so sorry you are here, but you are in the best place.
Do you recall something, anything that happened around 24 months ago that could have triggered MLC in your H?
Hi, Kate11 -- So sorry you are here but let me say that you sound very clear-headed and kind, that is a great start.
I am crushed with work but wanted to say that it might help to imagine what you would do if a teenager refused to talk to you. You wouldn't take it totally personally, maybe just a little, and you wouldn't expect anything.But you also wouldn't lose yourself and your own politeness, etc. Try that.
If you can pray for your H, do that too. If you don't believe in God, pray to the universe.Give him up, surrender him, ask God or the universe everyday to heal him and take care of him. It will give you some peace.
And the other thing I would suggest is to invite people over as much as possible. I have found this to be the best way to combat the loneliness of MLC and it's much better for the kids. Your H will probably run away or even get mad about it, but to me it's the only way to have any normalcy at home. I am in year 6 of an in-home MLCer. He just filed for D but I am still holding some hope though longing for him to go far away until he comes back. And probably the biggest reason I want him gone is because I want to be able to invite people over all the time.
You sound like a wonderful person, glad to make a new friend and sorry it had to be here. I have such PTSD that I got scared when I saw your name, it was the name of the OW in my sitch. It took me a few minutes to write to you, I was that scared. That's what MLC will do to your mind if you aren't careful, and I am a veteran at this point!
IMO, counseling is of no benefit now. Unless he is inboard or even open to it, it will not have any chance of working, or v little chance. In your shoes I would drop it. Don't mention it again and if H brings it up tell him you have changed your mind about it. But you could see someone on your own if you think it could help.
I'd like to add to the others that M counseling is useless unless your H is on-board to really work on the M. We went 6 months and my H never got out of what he calls the "mine field" - do I have it in me to work on the M?....Is status quo best for now? .....Can I give her what she needs?......" He STILL says the same things, at least last month he did when I asked him if he plans on renewing his apartment (he did).
I would just add that before you start your journey be clear about your motivation. Many LBS have a knee jerk reaction to save the M just because they realize they are about to lose it. Understandable but you need to explore the question deeper to be clear why you want to stand.
Again, I wasted MONTHS (maybe years) on giving H every accommodation with no boundaries in my desperation to keep him. Until about 2 months before I asked him to move out. At that time I realized I want to be happy with or without H, and my GAL activities pulled me out of my pit. My goal is now clear. Become a happy, fulfilled ME, and let H be to figure out if he wants to be happy and how he plans to do that. If he ultimately decides he wants to try to R, I may already be done. Who knows?
Lastly I remind you that you have time. Do not rush in on your white horse in metal armour to save your M. Sometimes doing nothing is the best action.
I have family members and a few friends wondering "how long I'll let this go on? At some point I'll need to make a decision." I politely inform them that I'm in no rush because I'm not interested in dating or replacing H. I'm o.k. with the way things are (because I'm developing a happy life for MYSELF). H may come along for the ride down the road, but I've already started my wonderful journey, and navigating all the bumps in the road the best I can.
Thank you everyone who replied for both your support and your advice. It is all much appreciated. I am about 6 weeks post BD and while I think I understand (to some degree) intellectually what I need to do the practical implementation is much harder. And I recognize I am certainly not detached yet, though I know I need to get there.
I’m so sorry you are here, but you are in the best place.
Do you recall something, anything that happened around 24 months ago that could have triggered MLC in your H?
His father died unexpectedly, at age 57, a bit more than 24 months ago. I think it was his fathers death combined with turning 40 that may have launched his midlife crisis. Although he has never articulated it, I think he is terrified that he will also die at a young age and now he wants to make sure he does "all of the things" and does not want to be weighed down by a wife and family. I can't be positive though.
Yes, his father's death and turning 40 where the triggers. Unfortunately once those triggers take place, he will have to go through the entire crisis in order to come out the other side. Suddenly with the death of someone they love or knew and the age creeping up, it's mortality hitting them in the face. They are scared and realize that maybe they need to revisit the past because they think that there is something there that they didn't experience. Unfortunately, it's childhood issues that need to be resolved and the only way to do that is to return back to that time where they were emotionally stunted. Your h is going back in time and I would venture to guess he's going to act like a teenager very soon and not give a fig about money or the consequences of his actions.
So, what do you do? First, keep a very close eye on your finances and your bank and credit card accounts. Set up a new account and move some of the money over to it so that you have funds in case he goes nuts after the holidays on the spending. Second, keep your focus on you and finally the third suggestion...try to enjoy the holidays with your family and friends. It's not your job to explain why he's being such a scrooge. You can't fix him because you didn't break him.
Keep the focus on you and if he doesn't want to participate in any of the activities this holiday season...no sweat! Leave him home and go out there and participate on your own. Fake it until you make it!
Kate
Death of a parent and turning 40
My w had those triggers too
In terms of his silent treatment
Remember two can play that game
Do what works for you
Stop doing what does not
If being cheery works for you then do it
If that hurts too much then stop
If avoiding him works for you then do it
If that is too inconvenient for you then stop
There is a lot of trial and error here
You are a strong woman
And you will figure out what works for you
He may or may not notice your changes
But that does not matter
Because you are doing it for you
My DB coach warned me w might not like my changes
And she was right
They want you to stay where you are and be predictable
Okay for you to be more mysterious and unpredictable
Okay if he does not like that
Kate, don't go counseling, my husband and I went there at the early stage of my husband's midlife crisis. We spent money and had time wasted. Husband got what he wanted - my wife is crazy, I need to divorce her. The therapist can prove that.
Please take care and take good care of your financial. It's very difficult at the early stage of spouse's crisis after bomb dropped... Please come here often, there are many great advice you could get ! It will help you get through and learn the idea of what your husband is going through.
Does anyone have experience/advice for breaking the news of separation to children around 9 and 7 years old? My husband wants to move out on February 1st. My boys will be devastated. Their father is their hero. Thoughts on breaking the news? What should I expect/look out for with regards to how my kids are coping?
This is the hardest part for me. I love my husband and I am so hurt that he is doing this to me. But I know that I will survive. What he is doing to the kids absolutely devastates me.
There's no easy way through it. My youngest was 17 and I can still see his face when his dad told him.
I'd wait until it's a little closer and you're further from the holidays so they don't associate it with the holidays in their mind.
A month is too long for anticipation anyway. Maybe a couple weeks before.
Don't let your H do it alone - they inevitably try to paint it as a joint decision or as your fault. I know some sources say to present it as a mutual decision but I think that's a mistake - it's ok for the kids to know this is not your idea.
On the other hand - your kids need to know ITS GOING TO BE OK. You need to be strong for them, they need to know you'll be ok because you are their rock. Cry your tears elsewhere. Put on a valiant face and don't act like it's a huge deal because the bigger deal you make of it, the more scared they'll be.
Others with younger kids should have more specific advice.
mine were 5 and 11 at time of move out
I would tell them closer to the actual date as KML said
I cant remember exactly the way we did it
but I think they realized something was wrong while he was still there
I think honesty is best- they know the truth anyway
No blame
But the truth
Your dad has decided to move out but we both love you very much
we cant protect them
But they will know you are there
you are not leaving ect….
Me being there and taking on rolls of both parents was helpful
my kids are both doing well
they are 17 and 23 now
good students drug free and good people-
no contact with dad for 9-10 years
no contact was a blessing for us
none
they don't ask about him anymore
For my situation- especially after xh went dark with no visits
I told them he loves them but he is in MLC
I told them the truth
If he gets better he will visit again
they seemed to understand
In some ways it was a huge relief to not see him everyday with his crazy shut down -not talking to me behavior
I have always felt the same. it was what he was doing to the kids that made it feel unforgivable.
My kids know I do not believe in divorce. They see me forgiving daily and I will never tell them that I think divorce is okay. On the other hand, I never told them about the OW. And I never told them I had cancer in year two of the MLC!
Your situation is moving very fast. My kids saw their dad change overnight but then stay for five years now though he disappeared most of the time from their daily lives. He only just filed this fall, it was like a 3rd or 4th BD for me. My H also keeps trying to explain his behavior by putting me down, which backfires and makes my kids panic, literally. Lately he keeps leaving town without telling them, but they are so used to him not being around, they often don't notice. I don't think my H even knows that they know he filed for D!
So I have found that it's better to be honest that he is in MLC and that their feelings that this is not normal are right and true, that it has nothing to do with them and not that much to do with me either. I remember as a child feeling not only horrible but also that maybe I was the crazy one. So it's important to validate their feelings.
I told them that I will always protect them and love them and told them that he loves them too but as a child of divorce I think it is very confusing for kids to be told their parent still loves them so much when it is quite obvious he is choosing to leave his family and is acting crazy. So I think it's a fine line. Just be sure that before you speak, you go into a closet or a church or a forest alone and ask for a clean heart and total forgiveness. I think if you do that first, you will know what to say.
XO
Does anyone have experience/advice for breaking the news of separation to children around 9 and 7 years old?
Kate - I think there are 2 important things to reassure your kiddos about. First, that what is happening is in no way their fault. Kids take blame onto themselves easily, even if they don't say it or show it. So, this reassurance will need to be reinforced along the way. Second, kids want to know how it will affect them. How will their life change? I would reinforce that even though dad won't be living there, they will still have both of you to talk to any time (or you if you don't think your H will be available or willing for this), they will still have their home, school, friends, etc.
I'm so sorry you will be facing this. I had a lot of anxiety before I told my kids, and they are grown up! It is not easy. My son especially wanted to know the reasons. I just said It was private, but did share with them I thought their dad was depressed and he had a lot to work out on his own. I also shared that I did not want a divorce, and am hoping we can heal and live a happy life together. If you both can do it together so the kids are reassured you are both there for them, that is best.
Good luck on your journey. We are here for you.
Thank you everyone for your advice. I have so much dread and anxiety about what this will do to my kids.
My husband does seem to be moving quickly (at least to me). I think he is trying to run away from all of the bad feelings inside of him as fast as he can. I think he believes that as soon as he is gone everything will be better for him.
I am waiting to see if he follows through on his aggressive time table. Historically, planning ahead and coordinating a major life event (like moving) has never been his strong suit. Who knows about this new MLC person though.
Telling the kids can be difficult. My kids are a little older,(12 and 14 at the time). I let W tell them while I sat there to intervene if she blamed me or made it sound mutual. I didn't intervene...she was fair with her delivery. We waited until after the kids were done with finals, but it was still a couple of weeks before she moved out. I'm not sure the timing would have ever been good.
I think my advice on that would be wait till its almost time, but still with enough time for them to absorb the idea of it. I'm so sorry you are having to go through this. It is HARD!!
kate,
I agree w/the others...wait until you are much closer to the time. I would have your h tell them while you are sitting in the room. It's his story to tell and you shouldn't have to be the one to break the news to them. You will need to be the one who will reassure and love them after he breaks the news.
Now, if he starts telling tales or speaking in a negative way about your or the marriage, then step in.
It won't be easy, but you will be there to reassure your children. He's not capable of doing that.
kate
I know several people here where I live that have also gone through various versions of MLC with their XH
Their kids were also various ages
Mostly I see, the kids are ok
yes they have some issues, but probably would have had some struggles anyway
I do strongly believe as long as one parent is available supportive and present--they are ok
Your anxiety and dread are normal
it is a scary time--I clearly remember that
For me..I didn't know how I would earn money
We had a small business at the time of BD that XH was draining funds and blowing off customers
he was running it into the ground..
The only thing that saved our business was my brother who worked there with XH
My brother trained me and we managed-
and I have 2 children that I was solely responsible for
One foot in front of the other here
We do not see a lot of reconciliations here on ths board, but there are some
BUT
we definitely see a lot of awesome, brave and wise LBS who always wind up winners in the end-
so please trust in that and keep going
Thank you for all of the advice about how to handle things with the kids. No matter what happens with my husband, I want my kids to come out of this whole. They are such great kids (I know I am biased). I know I can't protect them from the hurt but I want to do the right thing by them- always.
Kate
They say around here
It only takes one sane parent to raise your kids well
You got this
Good Morning Kate
I did miss welcoming you a few weeks ago. I am sorry you find yourself in this situation with your H. You have met some compassionate and knowledgable people with much hard earned wisdom that really does help.
You have received some very good advice and I must say you sound and seem very grounded and level headed, well done!
I completely agree with your decision to not pursue marriage counselling, at this time.
Unfortunately, there is no test to tell absolutely if someone is suffering a MLC. A lot of an MLCer’s behaviours are that of a WAS, wayward, etc... because they are - they can be both. MLC has its roots or cause buried deep within some childhood trauma(s). A tigger, like that of his father’s death and his own morality, can awaken these terrors. MLCers are driven to, must have, and cannot prevent - their escape. They have to run, they cannot face their pain. This of course causes so much more pain and problems for them in their future if they ever do awaken from this.
I had no idea of what MLC was, just some Hollywood idea of guy buys sports car and finds younger women. In fact over the holidays I had a relative joking about having his own midlife crisis and was buying a sports car. I let it go. I was one of the uneducated, uninitiated, for so long - I hope this guy never has to learn.
That is where you find yourself, facing this. For what it’s worth, with everything you have said, and the timelines, I believe MLC is quite likely for your H.
Your best course of action is to focus on yourself and the children. Heal well and be the stable parent. Continue to give H time and space, he needs it, and will take it anyhow and anyway he can. Focusing on you, helps you - and will give the best chance at future reconciliation (long ways away) if you want. You really don’t need to decide right now, just breathe and be patient.
Unfortunately your MLCer is not being patient and does have an aggressive timeline, moving out at the brining of February. I do know something of aggressive timelines. My W dropped the bomb at Thanksgiving supper in front of everyone, announced her IDLY speech, her boyfriend, her affair, her adultery (6 days later), and moved out - all in less than three hours. Legal separation was 60 days from then.
As best you can, let him do what he is going to do. I would inform your children a week or two before his date. Let him tell them if you want, or do it together, or by yourself - the only thing that really matters is that you are there. Rememebr this part is about the children, and in my experience, you will be the only one that will truly be there for them - at that discussion and going forward. You will be the stable and sane parent.
Just be honest and truthful with your kids. They deserve it. And of course be age appropriate. This is a very difficult conversation to have, and is the first of many. Don’t fret, children are more accepting and aware than we are, it will work out.
Focus and stay strong.
DnJ
You have received some very good advice and I must say you sound and seem very grounded and level headed, well done!
DnJ
I wish I could say that I am grounded and level headed at all times but that would be a lie. I work full-time and immediately pick up my kids after work and I am with them until their bedtime. I think that forces me to remain calm. Being hysterical at work or around my children is just not an option. Nights are the hardest for me- when I am no longer distracted by all the things I have to do. This is how I know that I still have a long way to go toward being truly detached. My head is still spinning with emotions. But outwardly I try to carry on as normal until I get to the point of detachment. I also try and remain calm and pleasant at all times when my husband is around me (though these times are rare). I constantly remind myself that I need to remain a kind and dignified person to the best of my ability. Anything less is not personally acceptable.
Tomorrow is officially 2 months post BD. It feels more like 8 lifetimes.
Kate,
Sorry you are going through this especially when we
LBS young kids.
About MLCers moving fast, oh boy can I see that.
My W
BD April s10 birthday he was turning s9
By April W pretending I did not exist W
Came and went as pleased in 10yrs W
Would go out but will be home at night for the
First time W didn't come home for 2days
I knew it was really over,
By the first week of May I found a lease W rented on April
First week by 2nd week of May W gone, literally one day
While taking Trios to movie, W just took half her clothes and shoes
I came back W was gone couple days later W took a little more clothes
And that was it. Oh yeah W took all savings and some of checking
Left me with less then $300 in bank.
So listen to the vets here to protect all finances I was one of
Those LBS that never thought W would take all the money not my W
So yes they move fast. By June 2017 W took OW to family reunion
So by April BD
By May moved out
By June OW in picture but was there even before BD.
And what I heard from friends W and OW where already living
Together.
So these MLCers are literally nuts. They don't give a crap who is
in there way all they care is about themselves and Other person
Now at bd my kids where S9, D9 and S8
My recommendation as I went through this, don't sugarcoat
Anything, kids are smarter then what we think. Be honest make
Sure both of you are there let H tell them just listen and if H says
Something wrong correct him.
Please please take them to individual therapy also yourself
Also do church groups and check around your area they also
Offer Divorce groups 4 kids this group is only for kids and your
Kids won't feel alone they will see other kids talking about divorce.
You are going to be a superhero mom now is time for you to put that
Super Cape on and become that Mom. Do activities
There is so much free things keep them busy.
I don't have money but I go to library and church anything
They offer free services take it.
We as parents need to listen more DnJ and many here have help
Me with That.
Just validate and listen to your kids. I usually nod my head and say to
Trios am sorry that's happening can I hug you. It shows your kids your there
Remind them when you tuck them in "I am here"
I know this is going be hard trust me but never speak ill or agree
With your child.
My d10 usually says Mom acts like a little girl sometimes I usually
Respond am sorry d10, do you want to talk about it.
I never agree with Trios but I usually just listen.
That has been the hardest but now I am good at it.
I am here when ever you like to vent.
You are safe with us here.
Hello Kate
I constantly remind myself that I need to remain a kind and dignified person to the best of my ability. Anything less is not personally acceptable.
I admire you setting the bar high.
You are going through something most people could scarcely imagine. If you slip or fall, remember to be kind to yourself as well.
I see nights are the worst times for you. For me it was mornings. In the late evening, I was emotionally exhausted, and therefore more stable. By morning feelings were recharged and full blast again, even with the terrible sleep. I could only get 90 minutes at a time.
This lasted about two to three months, for me.
How are you sleeping? Do you get through the night? Nightmares?
Share or ask whatever you like. This is a safe place, and a trove of knowledge and experience.
DnJ
I constantly remind myself that I need to remain a kind and dignified person to the best of my ability. Anything less is not personally acceptable.
I agree with this and try to live my life like this in all ways, and especially when I see H. I try to treat H like God would want me to, with kindness and compassion. It helps me keep peace with myself, live mainly a content life while I wait, and hopefully helps H, although I so rarely see him I wonder if it makes any difference. BUT, it makes a difference to me. And that is what GAL is all about. Ourselves.
We are here to help you along with your journey. Hugs.
Kate, best recommendation I can give besides what has already been given that has worked for me is get a gym membership and workout. If you can afford it, get a personal trainer. Working out reduces your anxiety and makes you sleep better. And you H will take notice.
Marina7, DnJ, Grace21 and black8- thank you for your support.
kate,
I know how you feel. I had to move countries and (obviously) change jobs right after BD - so I had the hat-trick of life's "most stressful experiences". My XH actually behaved pretty well at the time, all things considered, but that still couldn't make up for the grief, gut-wrenching anxiety, disbelief, outrage at the unfairness of it all and the deep, horrifying fear of the future that I was dealing with. All the while I did what you did - I held it together at work, and I tried to treat my XH with enough civility to avoid nastiness and accusations of bitchiness, craziness and whatever else.
I cried my heart out every night. Sometimes all night. Deep, wrenching, soulful sobs. I lost lots of weight. I think I went a tiny bit mad. However, I made it all look OK on the outside.
I absolutely understand how you feel. It is the worst thing I've ever experienced in my entire life, and I'm sure you feel the same.
Know this. You *are* going to get better. I didn't believe it when people said I would. I thought they had no clue. That they were stronger than me. That they had some special recuperative powers that I somehow missed out on.
I was wrong. They were right. Things did get better - eventually. Don't judge yourself by how long it takes for things to get better. Just know that it will.
You will be so proud of yourself for behaving the way you've decided. You could've chosen a different response, but you didn't. That is all down to the strong, resilient, loving, good woman that you are. Your kids will be proud of you. Your friends. Your colleagues and your family.
Eventually, you will be too.
Devvo- You situation was certainly enormously stressful! So many changes forced on you all at once. Thank you for taking the time to write to me. I do appreciate it.
Nothing has really changed here. My husband doesn't spew like so many MLCers do (for which I am thankful). He continues to mostly avoid and ignore me. If we are together he mostly treats me with cold indifference. As far as I know he has not secured a place to live for his previously mentioned Feb 1st move out date but I am not entirely sure. He hasn't brought it up again (but that doesn't mean much).
The guest room, where my husband is currently staying, looks like a teenagers room. Dirty clothes and belongings all over the floor. Bedsheets that haven't been washed in ages. Just a general slovenly mess. He hasn't been spending as much time out of the house as he did pre-bomb drop. Now he is around but closed off, angry and somewhat mopey.
I guess it is all par for the course.
Typical adult/teenager behavior. He reminds me so much of another poster's husband. You may want to search for HaWho. She had a husband who lived in a "dorm room" in the house for a few years before he finally moved out. Her threads may help you.
Job- I looked up HaWho's posts and there are definitely some similarities. Thanks for the heads up.
The teenager behavior continues. Every morning I come into a kitchen with dirty dishes on the counter and any garbage or recyclables he has generated just strewn about the kitchen. It's almost like my husband is trying to get me to fight with him about it. I haven't said anything (after all I guess it is small potatoes compared to the much larger issue of him wanting to move out) but it is still irritating every morning. At home my husband is wearing the same jeans and hoodie at all times with the hood up like he is hiding. It really is like living with a 15 year old.
Interestingly, every weekday he still puts on his business clothes, shaves and goes to work looking normal. I think his behavior has only regressed to sullen teen at home. He does put the kids on the bus every morning before work still (I go to work early in the morning) for which I am grateful.
The weekends are hard. I plan outings with the kids but there is just a certain amount of time that is spent at home taking care of life. Last year (when my husband was acting strangely but pre-BD) he was gone a lot on the weekends. Now he is around and doing a lot of heavy sighing every time we cross paths. I try not to let it affect me but it does. I am not even engaging him I am just existing and going about my life and that seems to make him angry.
I am going to try and head into the weekend with a good attitude though. Be the change I want to see.
Kate,
I can’t imagine what it must be like to live with an MLCer, I’m glad my H left so I didn’t have to experience it.
You are doing great, you can be really proud (((Kate)))
It sounds like he's suffering from clinical depression (the clothes, the mess).
Does he have any history of depression or addiction in the past, or in his family?
Do you think if you presented it carefully (as in, "I know you're leaving, but I've also noticed all these signs of clinical depression, and I'm concerned for you. Can I make an appointment for you with your family doctor?").
You need to be careful not to sound like you're trying to keep him there.
Meanwhile - what are you doing to change things up for you? Do you feel safe enough to leave your kids with him for the evening while you go out with girlfriends? Dress up nice and go out. Let him sit at home wondering what you're doing for a change. Get a new hairdo, buy some pretty lingerie, do something surprising. Take up a new hobby. Stretch your wings.
Right now, in his depressed state, he's like a wolf with its leg in a trap - he'll gnaw off his leg to get out. He doesn't realize you're not the source of his pain. Start living your most interesting life, shake it up a bit and he may start wondering if he should stick around and join you in that new life.
Kate11, be glad that he is still maintaining the mask at work. My H is the same as far as teenager not helping. He is the worst roommate anyone could ever have. He hasn't done a dish or taken out the trash or cleaned or tidied, let alone fixed even the most dire repair issues around our house/business, since BD. And he often complains about the house being untidy when I can't do it. But my H can't function at work. He barely works and gives me no money for kids or house and until I said started to say NO after he filed, took money. He continues to help himself to groceries and car, etc.
If you were a person of faith, I would just advise you to pray for him everyday and to pray over what you observe -- e.g., Lord, lift the spirit of despair and depression from my H's heart. Help him to feel comforted.
Or how about going all the way -- Lord, let my husband sink deeper and deeper accordingly to your plan for his life! I know he has to reach rock bottom to begin to wake up again, and I am ready to bear that for him and for the sake of our family.
If you aren't a praying person, maybe there is a way to give him to the universe in a similar fashion each day.
Recently I found something I had written just after bomb drop, listing each expectation I had had for marriage and for my H and giving it up. I was supposed to mail it to myself a year later. The things on that list are so far from anything I would ever expect now, it was both sobering and inspiring to see how far I have come. I recommend it. On your list can be, "I expected my H to help around the house and to not sink into depression."
I agree with another post that you should live your life but I would cut out all parts of the advice that include what effect it might have on him or anything that implies that you want him to notice. That won't work, in my experience, and it also will keep you in a state of watching him. Instead, just focus on how to be a light to your family and what you want to do with your life whether or not he is there so that you can try to have some joy in between what you have to bear. You just started this path, your H is not going to change anytime soon.
But I have faith that if you can wait it out in love, there is hope no matter how dead the M looks.
Gerda- I am so sorry that your husband has been unable to help in any way. It is a good reminder to me that no matter how I am struggling their are other people struggling much harder. My best wishes to you.
kml- I have wondered about the clinical depression too. I have not yet been able to think of a way to bring it up that won't send him running in the other direction just because I was the one that brought it up. I I will keep thinking about it.
I like to think I live a pretty full and intentional life. I am a definite introvert so spending huge amounts of time out doing social things is not that fun for me. My week days look something life this:
5:00AM- Wake up/exercise (walk of workout DVD) Get ready for the day
6:00AM- Breakfast with kids
6:30AM- 4:30PM- Commute and work
4:30Pm- 7:30PM- Pick up kids/Kid activities/Family time/Dinner/Kids bedtime
7:30PM- 8:00PM- housework
8:00- 8:30- Shower
8:30- 9:30PM- read
On the weekend I don't get up until 6:00AM and it is a mixture of chores, errands, family time, weekly meal prep and kid activities. I have a photography hobby and will often pull out my camera on the weekends to take some pictures. During the week I meet a group of co-workers/friends for a 30 minute coffee break daily. I read most days as reading is my favorite hobby. Occasionally, I will meet up with some friends on the weekend but not that often. I attend a monthly bookclub.
It is safe to leave the kids with my husband. During the week he generally isn't home until they are already in bed. In December I attended several holiday events in the evenings. I had fun but my husband couldn't care less about what I was up to.
I do my best to fit some exercise, reading and family time into every day. Also, I do socialize at work each day during my daily coffee catch up. I haven't added anything that is new since BD but I feel like I have designed a pretty good life for my own personal preferences.
I have also been trying to limit my spending and not engage in retail therapy. If my husband does leave there will be a drastic cut in income (even with child support). I am trying to be proactive in cutting spending now with the understanding that there may be a major financial change coming.
sounds like you have a good schedule and you are doing things that make you happy
you also sound grounded in reality
are you checking up on the bills, accounts and credit cards ect..
some MlCers spend a lot and if no one is watches they can rack up some debt
are you checking up on the bills, accounts and credit cards ect..
some MlCers spend a lot and if no one is watches they can rack up some debt
I do handle all of our monthly bill paying. So far everything has been ok. I will keep up my vigilance though. Thank you for the reminder.
Good that is so important
Hope you have a good day!
The spending thing is hard and something I struggle with. Where I am the court considers our standard of living. If I sock a lot away, I aid the argument that I need less support. If I don't, then I don't have a fallback and can be painted as a spender. Think about ways of stockpiling that might be less obvious. We've discussed this somewhere before, but gift cards that don't expire and that you won't lose, some cash, extra food or clothing you might not have to buy later. That sort of thing. Spending money (get out an extra $60 every time you buy groceries or whatever, so it isn't obvious taking money out of an ATM) but also having things you can fall back on later.
I agree w/OneArt's suggestion. I would start purchasing gift card every time you grocery shop. Less obvious that way. If you squirrel away cash, put it in a safe place, a place that he won't find it, if he should happen to come around snooping, i.e., the same would apply to the gift cards. You have to protect yourself financially, but he will certainly not care if you have money, food, clothing or a roof over your head. It's all about him and what he wants.
So Friday is February 1st, which is when my husband said he was moving out. However, he has made no further mention of it and, so far, he hasn't packed anything or made any kind of monetary deposit on a place (as far as I can tell). I did ask him last week if we needed to talk to the kids about his moving out and he replied "no" and then promptly left the room.
I am not sure if I should press him? That seems like pressure which I have been trying not to apply at all. I also have never initiated a relationship talk of any kind since BD and am hesitant to do so. Should I just let it go?
Even though the situation is so difficult for me I do know that having their father present (even the way he is) gives my kids a sense of love and stability.
Unless you want him to move out, I would just leave it. Keep doing your 180s and GAL and give him space and time. Don’t initiate any R talks as that just equals pressure. Sounds like you are doing well with that so far. I know it is tough but try to keep it up. (((HUGS)))
I like to think I live a pretty full and intentional life. I am a definite introvert so spending huge amounts of time out doing social things is not that fun for me. My week days look something life this:
5:00AM- Wake up/exercise (walk of workout DVD) Get ready for the day
6:00AM- Breakfast with kids
6:30AM- 4:30PM- Commute and work
4:30Pm- 7:30PM- Pick up kids/Kid activities/Family time/Dinner/Kids bedtime
7:30PM- 8:00PM- housework
8:00- 8:30- Shower
8:30- 9:30PM- read
On the weekend I don't get up until 6:00AM and it is a mixture of chores, errands, family time, weekly meal prep and kid activities. I have a photography hobby and will often pull out my camera on the weekends to take some pictures. During the week I meet a group of co-workers/friends for a 30 minute coffee break daily. I read most days as reading is my favorite hobby. Occasionally, I will meet up with some friends on the weekend but not that often. I attend a monthly bookclub.
It is safe to leave the kids with my husband. During the week he generally isn't home until they are already in bed. In December I attended several holiday events in the evenings. I had fun but my husband couldn't care less about what I was up to.
I do my best to fit some exercise, reading and family time into every day. Also, I do socialize at work each day during my daily coffee catch up. I haven't added anything that is new since BD but I feel like I have designed a pretty good life for my own personal preferences.
I have also been trying to limit my spending and not engage in retail therapy. If my husband does leave there will be a drastic cut in income (even with child support). I am trying to be proactive in cutting spending now with the understanding that there may be a major financial change coming.
I am in a similar situation (minus kids, I don't have any) I feel better knowing that there are other women out there like me who just don't really care to go out that often and just like to sit at home and relax as a form of GAL. My husband is also ( I think) going through a MLC. Letting them be I is the best thing we can do I think.
My husband left me a note the yesterday saying that he is looking to move out in March now but not to worry he has thought of everything and he is sure this can be amicable.
This is crazy, of course. First, that he wants to leave such information in a note! Second, that he has thought of everything. And third that his walking out the door can be considered amicable.
My question is what do I do about this note? Try to engage him in a conversation (the relationship talk I have never initiated)? Ignore it?
Thoughts are appreciated.
R talks do NOT work. Take it from me... I've had too many of them and they just pushed him away even more and cemented his position that we need to D.
Ask yourself... what would he expect you to do after getting that note and then do the opposite. If I were you, knowing what I know now, I would do nothing or I would thank him for the note and for keeping you in the loop or something to that effect. He knows how you feel Kate. If you keep hammering him over the head with it, he is just going to get frustrated that you aren't listening to him. Take the high road if you can manage it. Breathe. Keep yourself busy. Don't react. I know how tough this is. I also know what didn't work for me. Please don't make the same mistakes that I did. (((HUGS)))
I have to admit, I haven't read your whole sitch, but if he is intent on leaving, I would make up a list of how you see things working living separately - kids, finances, etc. I would do the work on what you need, so you are being pro-active and not reactive. You will find yourself in a much better position, and I think it helps level out the emotions that YOU are in control of your needs and not what he thinks you need.
Hello Kate
Both DV and Grace have given you excellent advice.
Acknowledge his note and let him do the heavy lift regarding his unwanted plan. Keep focus on you and your needs. Ensure your security. And to be very clear that is financial security. You deserve and require it.
DnJ
I know that you need practical advice, but I just want to say that I felt the knife that sliced straight through your heart when you read that note, and I send you a ((((((Kate11)))))) hug eleven times over.
I myself would not answer at all. I would be pleasant when you see him but not answer. This is only possible if you pray constantly, in my experience! God will give you that peace.
If he is going to D, you will need to have a lawyer's help. And if he doesn't, it's limbo anyway. So what answer is there that might be undone anyway later, unless he asks for information. If he asks you to answer, you could answer then. But for now, what do you need to say?
The only thing I would add is that what he writes may not match his actions
He may or may not move out in March
No one knows the future
I agree with saying nothing
And focus on setting expectations at zero
You expect he will not leave you a note like that
So it perplexed you or frustrates you or angers you
Those are all justifiable feelings
But if a stranger left you that note
How would that make you feel
I can tell you my w said she was going to do a lot
And at first I got flustered
And checked in here
Collected myself
Came up with a response
But most of the time she would not follow through
You can only control you
He is going to do...whatever he wishes
Let him go. That may seem a little blunt but anything else will worsen the situation. Accept his decision fully and plan your life in accordance. This doesn't mean that he gets to dictate everything. His leaving is his choice, but the conditions that you are left with is for you to have your say. Don't accept what isn't reasonable/acceptable.
But as I said, your best action is to put on a brave face and act as if you are fine with him moving out. That it's not a big deal for you. You don't need him. You may need to fake this especially at the beginning but the less a deal you make of this the better for you in the long term. Fight him on this and he will just remember you fighting, which will further cement his thinking that he was right to move out.
However I would also shake up your routine in the build up to his moving out. I know it is out of character for you to be an extravert, but there are many reasons to go out more now. Firstly he will experience time without you. Secondly he will notice you are not just mopping around the house feeling sorry for yourself. Ideally go out and do something as that will help distract you.
Best wishes
Forgot to mention that if I were you I would not acknowledge nor mention the note. If he wants to move out he will have to bring it up again in person, though some are not able to do that and will slip away without discussion. Regardless I would not discus it. Prepare for if it happens, especially regarding financially protecting yourself
Hi Kate,
probably the note was sent to avoid confrontation
They want their actions to be approved of and want validation
I would say nothing and also agree with the others
When you see him, be kind cheerful and start creating a life
take dance lessons or do something different for fun
Let him see you creating a new life
He may or may not follow through
many Mlcers will eventually leave
My xh threatened moving out for months-then he did
There is not much we as LBS can do except embrace the new reality
Watch the finances though they will drain accounts to create their fantasy world-
they will put things on credit and overspend beyond their means
If you have not consulted a L
I would consider a free consult just to see your rights and gets financial advice
Trust that as much as it hurts now- YOU will be ok and many LBS do move on to create better lives for themselves and the kids-
Kate,
I wouldn't respond. I would go about my business and if he continues to talk about it, just listen, but do not beg him to stay or try to convince him that he needs to think about it. I want to share my experience because it was before I found this site.
My xh moved out on a moment's notice and returned 3 days later. He lived at home for 7 months acting out and reverted to a 12 yr old. Whenever I would ask him to do something, he would threaten me with "I'm thinking of moving out". Now, my requests were about taking the car in for an oil change on his day off while I was working, i.e., this such as this...nothing out of the norm. I would always thank him, but he just figured he would threaten to get me to stop asking him. So, one day, I asked him to do something at half time of a football game and here he comes with that moving out stuff again, but this time, he was thinking about doing it after Christmas. My response by this time was "whatever" and continued on about my business. Monday evening, when I got home from work, I told him that we needed to discuss his comments from the previous day. He had completely forgotten his threat. I told him that if he wanted to move out that he should do it now and not after Christmas as I did not want this uncertainty hanging over everyone's head throughout the holidays. He sat there and cried like a baby and when I asked why he was doing that, he replied that he was so confused and didn't know what to do. I told him that if my spouse opened the door and gave me my freedom, I would pack my bag and run like heck. He didn't respond. So, for two weeks he moped around and couldn't understand why I wasn't begging him to stay and I replied that I wasn't the one that wanted to move out...he was. It took two weeks for him to finally get up the nerve to leave before I got home. Once he left, he let me know when he got a place to live and I told him I was glad he was not homeless. He remained friendly until I have draft separation papers drawn up to his specifications....from that point on, he became a very angry man.
I have never, ever regretted opening the door and shoving him out. I rediscovered myself, knew where the money was going and I wasn't wondering each and every day he was off who he was with and what he was doing. His lead into crisis was questionable. He became very good at lying and hiding money and I discovered he was meeting women from chat rooms for over a year. So, when he left, I could finally leave the eggshells behind and put my life back together again and found peace knowing that I didn't have to deal w/his antics day in and day out.
Job- Thank you for sharing your story. It is very useful to see all of the different ways people walked through this difficult time in their lives.
Thank you everyone for your advice. I chose to not mention the note.
Also,I did get out of the house last night for my monthly bookclub.
Hi Kate11,
You've gotten some great advice above, I agree with other posters. I read somewhere once people do this, they've already decided to move out, even though actions and notes and daily interactions seem inconsistent. I want to say that yes, I got a note too. I ignored it. XH then texted it and said that I'd ignored the note and 'wasn't listening that he was moving out'. In my case, it wasn't an R talk he wanted (and we never did) he wanted me to become angry about it and start a fight, which he would then use to justify moving out. Be careful of this behavior. As I became more calm and neighborlike, the angrier he became that there was nothing he could point to to justify his leaving. Then he just found other things to try to get me to blow up about to justify his actions.
The other day he said he'd wished he'd never moved out. He totally forgets how he11 bent he was on leaving! He doesn't even remember the note. It's devastating to you now, but for me it was good, looking back. I couldn't have gal-ed with his very depressed person loafing around, texting all the time.
I'll add a bit more, because I feel our sitches are very similar in many ways. Like you i didn't know about any affair, but as everyone says here, assume it is true, whether EA or PA doesn't really matter. With my XH, she was the fantasy, the texting partner making him feel appreciated and strong and good, he loved the attention. The only way he was going to wake up was a) to actually be with her in some reality that involved realizing she didn't pick up a mop or make dinner or anything, really and b) realizing what he was about to lose (in my case, lost). You can't control either of these things! Maybe the faster he gets to it the better- let him go, let him meet his new reality. You take care of self and kids. GAL, etc. He might have a long road ahead of him to get there, you not being the problem, not being the one to blame can happen, over time. Be patient, listen to the vets. Patience is key. I remember reading on here how long it can take MLCers to come out of tunnel, if ever? Job scared me with her numbers. Take care.
Thank you for your thoughts as well Waves22.
One of the hardest things I am finding about my situation is that even if he moves out we can never just move on independently because we have children together. And young children to boot! That means we will have to see each other and often. It's something I think he doesn't realize at all. I can tell that he wants to run away from me/our life but unless he completely abandons our children (which, at this moment, I don't think he will) he is still stuck seeing me. At every life event (big and small) of our kids. I have this horrible picture in my head of every event in their lives being marred by the horrible awkwardness of their torn apart family. Mom here. Dad over there. Both of us there but never together. Forever. I think that my husband doesn't realize that this is the life he is trying to condemn all of us too.
That being said, I do realize that I can't make him understand this. I can't make him do or see anything. I am trying to keep the door open for reconciliation. I would like for him to come to his senses before he shatters our kids by moving out. I know that is unlikely though.
My husband took off the day after BD for a week and I read the Divorce Remedy immediately during that week. So, aside from the crying that definitely occurred during BD I have never cried, begged, pleaded, followed, yelled or tried to talk about any of this. I gather this is somewhat unusual. I hope that it is helpful in the long run. It's so different that other situations I read where everyone says they did all the wrong things and then DB'd and they could see a difference. I have no compare/contrast available to DBing and not DBing. Has anyone ever DB'd right from day 1?
I appreciate the wisdom of all of the veterans here and the time you are taking to share it with me.
kate,
Right now the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence. He thinks that by leaving you, the children and home, that life will be better. He is seeking freedom, fun and yes, even experimenting with the life of a teenager/young adult that he thinks that he missed out on. They don't think of the consequences of their actions at this time. All they want to do is run fast and far away.
I hope that I am wrong, but if he does move out, he will distance himself from you first, then the children, pets and home and his family and friends. He will see the children, but it won't be like it is today. He will whine about money and become very selfish w/money and his time w/his "past life". All he wants to do is have fun and have no responsibilities at all.
If you have not done so, start squirreling money away, purchase gift cards that you can use later. Watch your bank and credit card statements. You may even want to look over your phone bills. It's better to be prepared when they start orbiting earth in the crisis.
I hope he comes to his senses, but it sounds like he's been thinking about moving out for quite some time. Listen to what he says and if he wants you to respond, just say "I'm sorry you feel that way". He needs to figure things out for himself and right now, he looks at you as an authority figure (mom to his being a son).
kate, I am keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers. Continue as you have been, come here for support and advice. Just remember, he will try to push your buttons to justify him walking and feeling the way he does. Do not take that bait...leave it on the hook for him to ponder why you aren't.
Kate11, I feel like I could have written most of your posts -- at least the part about your fears. This about you imagining all the life events, that is me.
All I can say is that I have had some peace with it now. I wrote about this in a post on my thread last night. The point is that all we can do on this Earth is stay in God's will. God's will is the same for you no matter what your circumstances are, and even when terrible evil is done to you and your children, you can keep walking in the light, and you will have a lot of peace from that, even if you are carrying a heavy sorrow and burden for your kids and for your H. That is a kind of DB that will allow you to not think about strategizing too much.
But then when you get confused, you can use what you learn here to figure out the daily intricacies of survival through this, and to get reminded that there is nothing you can do to change him, when you think you can. These two systems combined have gotten me through almost six years and counting. And I still have hope. Not delusion. Real hope. And I am even looking forward to some time apart if my H ever actually moves his fanny out of here.
What it will do to my kids is extremely difficult to make peace with. But if he wants to go and he doesn't, you could end up in a situation like mine where it starts to seem that it would be better for the kids to have a more peaceful household -- because remember, most kids see a lot of misery and tension when a spouse moves out, but yours will see more peace and they will see you continue to be kind to your H. That is life changing. They will see you standing for your M even when he moves out, and to see how you handle his rejection with grace -- including at those events! And to see you continue to invite him to those events! These things are very powerful acts of mercy and grace for your kids to witness.
There are many many stories of spouses leaving and then returning one day. You can see a lot of testimonies at Rejoice's site. Sometimes reading them is too difficult for me, but mostly I do read them so I will remember that anything is possible esp with God.
As HB always said, where there is love, there is hope!
Kate, I also could have written what you wrote word for word. All you can do right now is try to focus on you and your kids and to act in way that fits with your values and beliefs and honours the love you had and still have for your H. Try to stay in the present and not spend too much time predicting the future. Life is full of twists and turns...you don’t know how things will turn out. (((HUGS)))
Kate, the folks here will provide you with much wisdom. I am in the middle of a situation very similar, as most here have been themselves..
You are both torn apart. The difference is that you possess logic and reason. He does not. He is filling his thoughts with emotion, fantasy and only for the very short term future. That is his portal, whether it is healthy or not. He will do things you never thought possible, clothes, working out, spending, etc.... some go on to do drugs or abandon their families in order to live out what was missed.
The best you can do is 'do for yourself.' He is now selfish, narcissistic and is doing everything for HIM and HIM only.
If you seek reconciliation, I suggest one of the coaches on this site. I had success with them. If nothing else, you will learn important life lessons, learn about yourself and some human management skills. Stuff you will carry forward in your personal and professional life. I had an early reconciliation (2 months after BD). It lasted about 6 weeks and ended in catastrophic failure.
This takes time. I don't know how long but plan for a long haul (years).
Do not engage in emotional talks. He will try to troll you into battles to justify why he is leaving. Deflect, ignore and use phrases like "that must be difficult for you" or "I'm sorry you feel that way."
Do not get caught up in what he says. Believe nothing. Watch his actions and buy into half of those.
Do for yourself. Be a person only a fool would leave. In the end, you will grow and be ready to move on, in one way or another.
Pour yourself in to your children. Get help from family and friends. They don't need details and are gold mines of support. He will likely surround himself with yes men who support (or are ignorant of) his fantasy. My W has abandoned her entire family, so that may happen as well.
It is a bumpy, emotional ride. Feelings come and go. With time, they will space out and you will be more level. Please continue to reach out to the folks here. They are invaluable and deeply care. You can PM me as well if you need anything.
Many of you seem to be doing really well. New outlooks and new goals. I think that is great. Wishing you all the best.
I wish I could say that I was feeling a great new outlook as well. But the mostly single-parenting life is really exhausting me lately. Just this week, each of my kids have needed emergency doctors appointments (nothing serious thankfully) but both times I had to rush out of work and get kids to appointments then try and get back to pick up the other child from their afterschool care and then try to work from home once the kids are asleep. I can no longer ask my husband to pick up something on the way home if we run out, so I have been squeezing any errands in as I rush after work to pick up the kids (I once asked him to pick up milk post BD and he just walked away muttering that I was so controlling. He didn't pick up the milk. I haven't asked again). My kids are too young to be left home alone so I can't go out in the evenings once they are asleep unless I hire a babysitter (babysitters are really expensive where I live so I try to limit their use). My husband also just texted to say he is in VT for a long weekend.
I know it's just pretty much regular life and that this is my new reality but I am feeling pretty worn down at the moment.
Also, is it controlling to ask a spouse to run a household errand? I guess it could be seen that way since it is something I am asking for instead of something he wants to do? So maybe I am trying to control his behavior?
No, you aren't trying to control his behavior, but in his mind, you are attempting to control his time and where he needs to go, etc.
It's very difficult for single parents because the spouse that is out to lunch isn't there to help nor can you rely on them. Do you have any friends that can assist w/the babysitting or a network of mothers in the church or neighborhood that would be willing to work with you on the babysitting issues?
You could phrase your questions by saying "H, we have run out milk and the children need it for their cereal and some of their favorite meals. Would you pick up a quart of milk for them on your way over? If it is too inconvenient, would you stay with the kids while I run out to get the milk?" You have to give them some options to think over decide on their own which way to respond. When you give them the freedom to decide w/o pressure, they generally will go w/the easy option. It is called putting the ball back in their court.
Try to remember....you can't rely on him to do the right thing because he's a kid himself at the moment.
Kate,
I began my career doing legal aid work for impoverished people. I met a woman who had lost her housing (the reason she came to me) because a tree had fallen in a storm and split her mobile home in two while she and her children were at home. She was a single mom, no resources, and no family to help her. When she described the incident to me, she said something to the effect of "I lead a blessed life. A tree destroyed my home. We were all saved. Someone was smiling on me that day." This woman, and her way of looking at the world, has brought me peace for about 20 years now.
Job- I will try rewording my request next time as you suggested. Thank you.
OneArt- Yes, there is always something to be thankful for.
Kate, I also had a long slow realization that my H was no longer going to be a dad. After I stopped thinking of asking him, my life did not get any easier but I had a lot more peace. I just adjusted to life as a single mom. I found moms to swap hours with so I didn't have to pay for babysitting as much. I started grocery shopping when the kids were asleep at home with the dog.
My life as a single mom is incredibly hard. I am the sole support for the kids financially, emotionally, time-wise, everything. My H won't even do their dishes when I had to leave them in the sink after rushing to work. In fact, the rare times he makes my D an egg in the morning, he leaves the dirty pan on the stove and the dishes on the table! But emotionally it got easier when I stopped being shocked and angry by that stuff, when I just expected. The rare times it doesn't happen, I get to be pleasantly surprised.
As long as you do not accept your reality, which includes your H being irrational and unreasonable about the kids, you will suffer a lot of pain in your heart. I still suffer this pain a lot, whenever I slip back into forgetting my reality or having any expectations of him.
But if you can try to make a new life as a single mom, any time he takes (and that will at least get easier when there is a schedule, though I have still not made it to a schedule!) will be a bonus.
Too bad we can't make a babysitting swap service for all the LBS moms on this board.
Acceptance is so hard. Even if we know it's good for us. Sometimes I have trouble reading your posts because your name is the OW's name. I even felt scared when you first started posting that you might be her. Isn't that crazy? I just mention it as it shows how much pain we carry around in our little LBS sacks, and how a lot of that pain can be avoided if we accept what we cannot change....
My husband wants to sit down tonight and have a discussion about finances. Any practical advice? I have already assembled an expense report showing all of our expenditures by category in 2018, as well as the baseline household budget and a budget that includes all of the extras we spend on the kids (activities, birthdays, travel, etc). Anything else I should do to prepare?
Hello Kate
Did H just drop this meeting request on you?
It will be good to have a “discussion” although discussion is not an accurate term for what he is probably looking for.
You could tell H you are happy to meet, but tonight is no good. Then suggest a couple of other times. You don’t need to jump just because he said so.
That being said, if you are strong enough meet with him. Listen to whatever it is he wants to say. You don’t respond to anything - you didn’t call this meeting. When pushed just reply “H, I am not prepared to answer that. I have not be working towards ending our relationship. I will need time to consider that. “
Gather all his concerns, questions, whatever. Then see a lawyer. Do not sign or agree to anything without seeing your L.
Kate, H is after something. Have no expectations as to what he is looking for. He may just be fishing or digging to see what he can get. With no expectations you also will have no answers, so you don’t need to guess or prepare for this. Stay firm on that. If some financial deal needs to happen have the L draft it up.
Stay strong, and just treat it like a business deal. One where you really, and won’t, make a decision on until follow up discussions.
DnJ
Kate,
My thoughts were similar to DnJ. Unless you want to meet to wrap up finances, then I wouldn't be so agreeable to meet and do all of the work for him. In my experience, I jump through hoops trying to give mine what he wants, and then he does absolutely nothing when it reaches a point that the ball is in his court.
I wouldn't agree to anything on the spot. I would go with a blank pad and listen to what he has to say and what he has to propose. Since you've done the work at the back end, you know what your needs are and you can ask questions to help move him along (did you factor in who would pay for the kids' summer camp, or what if my car breaks down, etc.).
Also, keep in mind that what the parties are dealing with in the interim often sets the stage for what a court later sees as what is needed (e.g., you've been getting by on $2k a month, why do you need $4k now?). So if you were to agree to less now, thinking you'll keep him happier, you could be hurting yourself later if there is a court determination on this stuff. Niceing them back doesn't work.
Like DnJ says, don't agree to anything without speaking with an attorney about what the financial picture would look like for you in divorce.
It ended up being a non-starter. He came home from work late and never brought it up at all.
I guess that is kind of par for the course though. He said he was leaving February 1st. He was absolute about it the day he told me and then never said a word about it again. February 1st came and went and he didn't go. The he left me a note that said he was leaving March 1st and then never brought it up again and he is still here. It kind of seems like he works up to something and then backs off. I am sure he will want to discuss the finances again at some point.
In the year preceding BD he was all energy and get up and go. Long workouts, trips with friends, possible/probable affair. Right before BD and for 3 months after he was constantly angry, irritable and sulking. Much more wallowing than high energy. For the last month he is less angry and irritable. Now he is wallowing less but also not as high energy. He is still completely withdrawn from me although he has regained the ability to make eye contact. Mostly, he is all over the map. And from everything of read this seems like it is likely to continue.
I often think that he is hoping that I will eventually throw him out or that he can provoke a really big fight to give him a "reason" to leave. Then he doesn't have to be the bad guy.
Good Morning kate
I often think that he is hoping that I will eventually throw him out or that he can provoke a really big fight to give him a "reason" to leave. Then he doesn't have to be the bad guy.
Yes, he probably is. Almost guaranteed.
Don’t take the bait. Let him figure it out.
DnJ
Mine absolutely did this. At a waste of time MC session at the end when the counselor asked why he hadn't left if he was so unhappy, he said "she hasn't made me." After I heard that, I made him. He'd still be here if I hadn't. After 5 years of that crap I'd had enough.
Haha OneArt, I hadn't heard that story. Good for you!
I never thought mine would leave after months of talking about it
But he finally did--without a fight
but it makes sense that the MLCer would want us to create some drama to make it justified
I know it difficult going through this day in and out but it will get resolved
just keep as you are for now
work on you
Are there differences between men in MLC and women in MLC? I know all MLCs depend on the person but are there known gender-specific differences? Similarly, are there differences in being an LBS man or woman?
The one difference that I have found is that women can be more devious and spiteful in their behavior. Generally, their behaviors are very similar in nature to the men's behaviors.
As for the LBS man or woman differences? In my opinion, I have seen a lot of men give up and walk away quicker than women...but that's my opinion over the last 20 years and IRL.
By the way, you might want to do some reading on depression. Women and men tend to handle depression a bit differently and of course, depression is the main ingredient of MLC.
As you stated, each person is unique in how they handle their crisis and so is the LBS. It all depends upon the damage that the MLCer has inflicted on the LBS as to whether they move forward and leave the door open or slam the door shut, lock it and stash the key and never look back.
I think it depends more on each individual person-
not so much gender because we see plenty of MLC moms leave their kids here
I also see the male LBS becoming great fathers here just as we woman take on roles of both parents to support our kids
the LBS male seems very similar to LBS woman as both genders seek individual support by coming here, personal growth and healing and seems to put the kids first and many stand for great lengths of time-
some even longer than the woman stand-
for the MLCer:
maybe it depends more on how bad their childhood was
if they are addicted to something and what the addiction is to
if they get help vs if they tumble further into addictive behavior/drugs alcohol
just my guess
The main reason I was wondering if there were gender-based differences is that my husbands mother had an MLC when she turned 40 and did pretty much exactly what he is doing now (at exactly the same age). She decided that her life was too boring and that she had wasted it. She wanted freedom and adventure. She had an affair. And she divorced her husband. 5 years after her divorce she regretted it all but by then her husband had remarried.
My husband has never forgiven his mother. He blames her for breaking up his family. But somehow he is blind to the fact he is doing the same thing.
To me the similarity is uncanny. I wondered if men and women often do the same thing or if this was something particular to my husband and his mother/family. Seems like it is just MLC script.
The main reason I was wondering if there were gender-based differences is that my husbands mother had an MLC when she turned 40 and did pretty much exactly what he is doing now (at exactly the same age). She decided that her life was too boring and that she had wasted it. She wanted freedom and adventure. She had an affair. And she divorced her husband. 5 years after her divorce she regretted it all but by then her husband had remarried.
My husband has never forgiven his mother. He blames her for breaking up his family. But somehow he is blind to the fact he is doing the same thing.
To me the similarity is uncanny. I wondered if men and women often do the same thing or if this was something particular to my husband and his mother/family. Seems like it is just MLC script.
first i want to say sorry that your going through all this. I heard the same stuff come out of my wifes mouth. I crave independence and freedom. That I was holding her back whatever that means. I'm not sure what shes going through still and probably never will. Thats sad that he can see what his mom did but can't see what he's doing.
Hello kate
I do believe there are some gender-based differences with the MLCer and LBS. However any generalized summations of the behavioural types lead to a non-determinable predictor of outcome. What the h3ll am I writing? I actually was attempting, and thought I was accomplishing, to simplify my thoughts. I think I need to try again! I guess I could just backspace this away, but I had a good laugh at myself, maybe someone else will as well.
What I am trying to say: MLCers behave irrationally. Some will leave their kids, some will not. Some push for divorce and others will slog their way along. Both genders exhibit the same traits, it is very much an individual thing. Once crisis hits, male or female, they are off the rails, and who knows where things are heading.
For the LBS we are not quite so irrational. We all start out hurt and scared. As we start to heal, the ingrained societal roles of man and women start to re-establish. Some stereotypical responses may occur, like more men quit standing than women for example. As stated for the MLCer, this is very much an individual thing. We are all a product of our upbringing. Depending on many factors, coping skills, unconditional love received as a child, etc... one may grow and push beyound what we know and become more. Again, no one gender is significantly different in this respect.
I believe that most of the MLCers eventually face this growth and possible becoming more. They have to get passed the running and start to heal, and that takes time. However, statistics for this life event, for MLCer or LBS, are hard to come by and far from representative of the complete picture.
What is pretty interesting is the similarities between MLCer and the script they seem to follow. Also that they seem to relive past trauma, inflicting their pain onto others, like their children. Again anecdotal evidence, but that’s all we got.
For what it’s worth. My W is inflicting past damage from her parents (Mom particularly), on to her children. And she is in denial and unable, and unwilling, to see it. Just like your H.
W threw away her children. Her Mom did the same to her when W was 18. W doesn’t speak to her children. Her Mom hasn’t spoken to W since her and I were married, 27 years now, that’s a long time to remain silent. Around 5 months after BD on my way home from work, W called me and asked (probably more demanded) me to get the kids to speak to her. I tried to explain her actions to her (it was futile btw), telling her how she was doing exactly what her Mom did to her, she was now doing to her kids.
That was met with angry astonishment. I still can hear the incredulousness in the words through the hand free phone.
Me - You are behaving like <Mom’s name>.
W - I am not like my Mom! She is the one not talking to me!
Me - And you are not talking to the kids.
W - No! It is the kids who are not talking to me!
Me - But what are you expecting? You are the Mom.
W - They will talk to me.
Me - Maybe. You’ve been 25 years. They could take 30.
W - Fine. They will reach out!
Me - Really!?! Three decades! When your almost 80?
W - They’re the ones not talking, I can wait.
It was like talking to her Mom. I expect you can see your H’s mother’s behaviour mirrored in him. It is spooky how similar they act, and how unaware they are of it.
DnJ
Most men and women MLCers are the same. The one difference I've seen is that when male MLCers walk, they virtually always have an OW. When female MLCers walk they usually have an OM but a small percentage do walk out without another man in line.
Kate,
Please start a new thread and link your two threads together. You've reached the 100 posting/reply limit for this one. Thanks!