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MLC or WAS...either way, I'm here Not much to update for me after being served divorce papers. I have been GALing so much, I'm actually exhausted. I have, however, stalled on giving the filing to my L. I will be forcing myself to do that today. I have a question that I'm hoping to get some opinions on.
When I met with my L and we did the financial portion, we discussed the house and $ we used for down payment. H had asked FIL for $50K to add to our down. My L told me that I was not entitled to that money because it was a gift to H and I have a gift letter that even though I signed, my name wasn't specifically on it as the recipient. My L said in the response we will acknowledge I am not eligible for this $. This will show we just want to get to an agreed settlement and aren't playing games. At the time, I agreed. However, I am now second-guessing that strategy. After seeing the pathetic attempt at his filing, a few things jumped out at me. One is that once again, I'm going to have to do the heavy lifting for this D and I have no interest. Two, why make this concession of the $50k so soon? Why not wait for him to acknowledge it? I won't fight it, but shouldn't he be doing his due diligence and making his own L aware of what is/isn't his? I also believe from his filing, he is picking and choosing what he reveals in terms of assets and debts. Any bargaining chip I can use, should be kept as long as possible. I know if he gets his hands on that $, it will only go into OWs pockets. I would honestly rather give it back to FIL, if that's the case and because it was for a house we only had a 2 1/2 months pre-BD.
Am I being petty, unethical? Would appreciate any and all thoughts.
LAJar,
I haven't commented to you before, but I did read your post. My .02 is that you should let him present that piece of info regarding the gift. This is his D. Let him do the work for whats his if he wants it. You've been doing all the heavy lifting all this time for what you want and haven't gotten it (speaking in terms of the M), let him work for it. IMHO, it might be petty if you knew he was entitled to it but fought for it anyways. I think that if he is pushing for D and doesn't ask for whats his, that's on him. Just my .02.
Hope it goes well for you! hugs...
I agree w/sjohns6...if he wants a divorce, then let him do the heavy lifting on things. As for being petty, no, I don't think so at all.
Praying that all goes well for you.
Im not sure what the answer is
perhaps you can ask own it..she is a L and may have an idea
Is it possible to get another legal opinion?
b4 you do anything
I think if a gift was written in his name..legally he may be eligible for that but Im not a L
I know my L was very by the book with issues such as that-
hang in there
I know how stressful the D is...
when mine was over , I was so relieved and it was then I really started to move on
When I was going through w/the divorce that my xh wanted, my lawyer advised me that anything that was gifted to him, was his to keep and anything that was gifted to me was mine to keep. If I were you, I'd be seeking some advice from another lawyer as each state may have different laws concerning such things.
sjohns6,
Thanks for stopping by and giving your thoughts. I agree with both you and job that I need/want him to do the heavy lifting. I want him to present just as much information as I am and put as much effort into that part as he's put into the idea that he wants a D. I highly doubt he will though and will do most of the work only to protect myself.
peace and job,
I definitely know that in my state, the gift is his. My point isn't that I would even contest that, but why am I conceding it without him staking his claim? I would rather wait to see how he responds to my response and go from there. What if he never even tells his L that it was a gift? He's an adult, he should be able to bring forth all of his documentation to protect himself. Why am I doing that for him? Even before I knew I wasn't eligible, I thought about giving my share back to FIL. It wasn't really a gift of his own doing. He only gave it to us because H asked for it. He never would have given it to us otherwise.
I am only at this point again, because I really think I'm going to walk away with the short end of the stick. His cut from our house will be more. I will only recoup the money I've put into the home, if the value of the home has increased. He will fight me tooth and nail for his pension, so I am just trying to gather a strategy, in case I need it. In the meantime, our mortgage was due today. SIL told me he asked FIL for more money to pay it, which he did not. I ended up paying and I just see more of my savings dwindling, while he is probably using that $ on gifts for OW. It's disgusting.
It's upsetting me now, but I am trying my best to get through and I know tomorrow is another day. Thank you for your thoughts and prayers - helpful more than you know.
LAJar,
You should only be focusing on your documentation. Again, if he wants the divorce, then he needs to prepare his documentation and present it in the proper format. I think you are very wise in waiting to see how he responds to what you present and go from there. Don't be surprised if he comes up w/stuff that can be seen as petty and finds excuses to drag this out.
Like most of them, he will not: 1) do the hard work of presenting his information; or 2) it won't be a thorough job. They think a divorce can be done w/the snap of the fingers and do not realize the amount of time and work that goes into separating everything. I hope that I am wrong and he'll be ready to present his data so that you know where he stands and what you will need to do.
Hang in there!
LA,
It's hard to know why your lawyer would suggest putting that out there upfront without knowing how the other side is going to be about things that are clearly yours. I have been involved in many negotiations where one side is eminently reasonable and the other side digs in their heels and fights everything.
If money is an issue and the other attorney has a reputation for being reasonable, etc. I could see situations where it might be beneficial.
Why not cut to the chase and just ask your lawyer why the suggestion was made.
Gift letters are common and are used for the benefit of mortgage companies to ensure that the borrow doesn't also have to pay back a portion of the downpayment, which could affect the debt-to-income ratio. I would not be surprised if people challenge them on that basis. Of course I'm sure the other side could get affidavits, declarations, etc. to the extent of the gift.
You should be getting back anything the community (assuming a community property state) contributed to the value of the house. Downpayment monies, mortgage payments, increase in value, etc.
Also, depending on how much the house is worth, I'd be wary of agreeing to anything that gives the FIL the first $50k. What if the house is decreased in value. Why should that "gift" flow entirely to your H.
Please discuss this stuff with your lawyer so you understand the rationale.
This is such an important thing, you really need to make sure that you understand things as you go along and are as good with them as you can be.
job,
I do think he will try to rush it (at least now), just to spite me. He thinks I'm dragging my heels. Telling people I was hiding out from being served. Seemed like he was able to find me now, why not a few months ago? Plain and simple, effort. As you said, he will not do the hard work on his end. In our marriage, he never did and if I have stepped in, I'm controlling. Well, I will definitely be relinquishing my "control" this time. Thanks for the support!
Own,
I know why my L suggested putting that out there up front. She said it would show them we're not playing games. I get it because I'm not entitled to the gift and I agreed initially, but then I saw his lazy filing and how he's taken things from the house that belonged to both of us and now considers only his. He will be all about the games, but he will call it - what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours. He doesn't seem to understand the concept of community property. He thinks anything I receive is out of the kindness of his heart.
You make a good point about the gift being the first thing that's paid off. I thought that's what my L said, but I need to clarify that as well. I'm fairly certain our house has increased in value because we did some improvements, but I just don't know how much. It was a concern that all would be paid out and my investment into our renovations would be last on the list. Seems as though that's negotiable.
I will be speaking with my L tomorrow and hope to she's in agreement and it's not something I have to convince her. Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it.
Hi peace,
It actually went well. I just finished sending my L updated documents. I just didn't really think too much about it, but there's such a time crunch because of the holidays. It's been a couple of months since my last meeting with her, so she we reviewed his filing, then where I had left off. I'm sure she's forgotten where I stand on the D, but she started in giving me my options and it seemed fast. Almost like - ok, let's submit and/or I can call his L and let him know we're ready to negotiate. I had to stop her and ask her what was the bare minimum I needed to submit. I told her that I know we had discussed including the $50K as a gift up front. I said I am not interested in fighting it, but I would like to see what he puts on the table before I reveal what I want/am willing to give up. She said, that's what she'd recommend. I don't know if the prep. of these documents made me think this was what would be included in my response. Either way, she understands I just want to submit the minimum and he can do the heavy lifting.
Clearly, this is all new to me, but I realize how much I need to be an advocate for myself. In the past, my personality has been if someone is an authority on a subject, I try to trust their judgment. I realize if I'm not comfortable, I need to open my mouth and at least voice my opinion.
This is rough to be dealing with this 5 days before Christmas, but it's what has to be done. I won't have the finalized papers until tomorrow, but oddly enough, I'm somewhat relieved. Up until this point, feels like I've had to mostly be reactive to advoid H drowning me. Now I'm getting to choose how I respond and have it be strategic rather than reactive. None of this feels great, but a little power in my corner for this powerless situation, is a win.
On another note, FIL's bday is Friday and SIL was not feeling great about having H celebrate with her and her family. She says not only does she just want to have a peaceful time, but she doesn't want to meet OW and the same goes for Xmas. She says many of her aunts, cousins feel the same and wanted to invite H but ask him not to bring her. It goes without saying how I feel about that, but I've chosen not to reach out to even wish FIL happy bday. I don't want to know. I'm sure I'll be told, but leading up to it, I want to enjoy my weekend and not know they were celebrating like a family. I'm sure that's the nice picture of it and the reality is it will be awkward (to put it mildly), but the idea H is so comfortable taking OW to meet family, makes me want to puke. I'll be at a friend's housewarming/Xmas party with my sister enjoying myself, so at least I'll be GALing and not home.
Thanks for checking in peace. Thoughts/comments, always appreciated!
You sound like you are doing quite well ,considering
Im glad you feel empowered..that must mean you are taking care of you
The D is a business deal..no niceness..business
the LBS has to make sure they get what they want, need and deserve
or the MLC and OW will try to take more
Im glad you will be with your sister and friends for the holidays..enjoy
Best not to think about H and OW..we never know what it is really like at their camp
for now it may seem fun and wonderful for them but that quickly fades
you are doing the real work and well he is doing nothing and going in the opposite direction from the thing he wants the most..happiness and peace
watch and see
all the best
peace,
I think I am doing well, surprisingly. There are good times and bad times, but no longer are they days long.
You hit the nail on the head - I felt empowered. I wish I didn't need to feel empowered in this situation, but it is a much better place to be, if I have to.
I am fully trying not to dwell and what is no longer and only focusing on me and the moment... trying. I know you are right and this is just temporary smoke and mirrors. I wish his quest wouldn't involve hurting me and my son, because I do wish he'd have the happiness and peace he seeks. I truly do. That sometimes gets clouded when he's hurtful.
watch and see
I know you're right. You've written other things, that have come to fruition. I stand to the side, taking care of me, watching and seeing.
How will you be spending the holidays? I hope will be enjoying with family and friends. Sometimes in this all-consuming life event, I forget to ask about others.
"Clearly, this is all new to me, but I realize how much I need to be an advocate for myself. In the past, my personality has been if someone is an authority on a subject, I try to trust their judgment. I realize if I'm not comfortable, I need to open my mouth and at least voice my opinion. "
Truer words have never been spoken, LAJar. Good for you for recognizing this and empowering hourself. It's so hard, but it's the best thing you can do for yourself.
I can attest to the importance of this, 100%. My ex was a finance guy so I trusted him with our finances... Why wouldn't I? He controlled it all. That was one of his roles in the marriage. Big mistake on my end!!! I thought he was looking after us. Turns out, he was only looking after himself the entire time.
Now that we are no longer a team, I had to empower myself and ensure that this gets remedied (as much as possible). He can get mad all he wants... He doesn't get the final say in what's fair and he's having a fit about it.
I guess what I'm trying to say is... Maintaining the strength to power through this might be hard because it's a difficult road, but I know you can do it!
L
I am doing well and so many good things are happening for me
sometimes things take time--we are here to grow and when moving it that direction
doors will open in our best interests
I see that in my life in many areas
This weekend is packed with FUN Fun Fun family and friends--and I'm super excited-
I love that you are thinking forgiving kind thoughts for H
That is I think the best thing we can give ourselves and them--forgiveness
Overtime I think of xh I acknowledge the fact that he is suffering as I know he is
and I wish him the highest and best..all the things I want for myself I wish for him
It FREES me
resentment is a losing feeling..peace and love are what I want
All the best
Merry Christmas to you and your family!