Thank you ladies... lately I have a hard time to see what I am doing, how I am behaving. I feel like I want so hard to detach that now it became automatic for me to just ignore XH, keep distance and basically run away from him.
Coly23 - I did not write all the details about what happen the day we were at the house of the lady from the church. It was way more intense. Everyone there were sitting in front of us two and reinforcing the value of a marriage. For us Christians it is something sacred that God put together in the first place. We were crying but there was almost everyone in a room crying too.
Our journey has been sweet and a way very painful. Hate is an easy way out and I could easily done that because that is who I was. But life has been teaching me a lot. This forum and I what I learned here, my faith and all what I learned and trust in my God, the fact that at some point my life was gone and I needed to pick up the pieces and keep walking with my head tall.
It all made me see some things with a different perspective and made me want to learn more and really become someone with real values. Those ones that don't come from emotions alone, but the core ones that become your DNA, the choices you make to not just walk the nice walk, but from a person that is intimate with pain and joy.
Sotto and Ginger1 - I agree with you too. There is much work to do for XH. He says he has to work on himself and that he still have wounds from our R and the R with the French lady. What he doesn't say is the most important, is that he has deeper wounds from his childhood. He was abandoned more then once, robbed, neglected, left to his own luck.
Many times when we were together, I felt that he was taking all my energy. It was a strange feeling and a bad combination since I believe that one must give but also need to receive.
XH is still confused, scared, insecure, afraid. He may want to give me more room but I know he is afraid of what it can be if I am not the person he is seeing. He feels that I can be a nice person but is afraid his life can become a nightmare if he does not change and with time we go back to the same issues we had before. He shuts down and I create a wall.
It seems to me that he is starting to believe in my changes because I have been more consistent with him. Part of it all is because I have been more sincere and outgoing. Just who I was when he first met.
I had no fear... I exposed my heart to him in a big way and gave him just LOVE. With the help of my faith, I have been able to go back to what I was one day. A fresh, happy and pure love person.
The problem with XH is that now my fear of rejection is a big deal inside my heart. I hear his words of love but I do not see the actions of his love. He uses excuses to be around me and I can see that. But I would like to see him coming forward to give us an opportunity to try.
Maybe it is a goal for me. To keep steady and wait to see if he will ever make time just to make me important in his life.
For example, when he told me that he had coffee with a lady that was very sweet and a very nice person, I was jealous, I was hurt. Here is a guy that tells me he loves me and also tells me he is looking for someone else.
Inside my head, I felt very crushed, XH can make time to invite someone for a coffee and spend some time talking to that person and yet he just use his time to talk to me when he gets to the house because he needs to pick up or drop off the kids.
The way I see it is that he is there anyway and then check on me. I feel like he talks to me because I am there. Then for me it has been hard to decide. Do I make myself available and keep the talking going even if it is this way, or do I make myself unavailable and even absent so he will need to run after?
At this point in time, I do not know what is the right thing to do that I won't hurt the chance of getting together some day. The truth inside me, is that I feel like his convenient plan B. I do not like it that he is not going out of his way to spend time with me.
When we talked about this the last time I saw him. He said that we are talking and it has been a huge progress. That he could easily just pick up or drop off the kids and leave, but he choose to stay and talk. He said that nothing would stop him to be away from me if he wouldn't choose to be close.
So, I try to see from his perspective. But, I still don't like it. I still feel like plan B and I got hurt that he can plan to be with someone else in a date and not with me. For me, he is not really giving us a chance. In my understanding he is trying his luck out there, but still keeping the idiot in a short leash so if nothing works out for him, he can always get back to someone that would take him with all his gaps and failures.
He even play mister nice guy, telling me that he doesn't want to hurt me anymore in my life. That this is the one thing he is having a hard time to forgive himself. That the only person in this world that he never want to hurt, the only person that he loves the most, is also the only person that he hurt the most.
So he says that he has no right to hold me, hold my life, that I can meet another man, a nice man and decide to be happy without him. That he has no right to ask me to wait for him until he is done healing himself.
So I take those words with love, caring and compassion and I am happy he cares about me. Or, I can take those words with salt, criticism and caution and understand that he is making a clear decision to date other women, look for love somewhere else and keep me in "between" as he even said to me. That he understands it is very hard for me right now because I am in "between".
It may sound like hate when I right this but it is not. I have no hate for him, I do really love him for all the good things and also for the bad ones. No one is perfect and I can live with all what is not so perfect in him. I do not have a problem with that.
I guess now I have to make a decision if it is better for me to be unavailable and see if he will do something to run after, or keep myself available so to give a chance for us to develop more closeness and spend time together.
In my opinion, I feel like it is a right time to pull back and show him I am giving up. I will see him often, I can be his friend when he needs my friendship. But I can pull back all my emotions towards him and let him see that I am giving him what he asked in the first place, and that is his freedom to walk his own path.
I feel the strength to get myself there. Even with this pain in my heart, I feel I can stop being selfish and wanting him back. I feel I can let him go and be happy on his own life if that is what he wants. I actually feel that now my love for him is real and genuine. I am able to love him so much that I can let him go if this is what makes him happy.
But, and in my life there is always the BUT word. Is that I am not a people's person, I mean I am not very good when it comes to read people. Can I be totally wrong? Can maybe it be that everyone is right and I am super hard on him? Can it be that I still hold some grudge and wounds that he actually gave up on me two years ago or even longer?
Yes, it can be all the above and some more. I need to be careful with my decisions because I am a runner. I run away from pain and this mechanism is very old in me and sometimes it is just automatic. For self protection, I very often get blinded side and miss the real meaning on what is happening.
Job, I am actually taking it slow. I know and you know I would like to sit down, laugh and say, lets start working hard towards making our family stronger then it ever been. But, I understand it is all a huge process. I am not closing my door to whatever shows up in my life. I am not looking for something else, but at least I am open to what can happen, even if it means someone else.
I still have a lot to do in my own life. I have been working on getting the house in my name, refinancing. Looking for a better job with time so to find something that suits me now, I look much better these days, my kids are my friends and life goes on.
So, what you guys think I could do? Maybe I need to put a list with new goals?
By the way, I have been reading "Bluewave"'s thread. Amazing as it is, I got to a better sense of detachment once I started reading her journey. It has amazing stuff in it and I got so much strength from all the words she wrote and also from poster on her thread. It has been a pleasure to use her words to give me strength to detach, let go.
Love you ladies.
And thank you for helping me. Soon, very soon, I think I will be in that position to give back to this forum. I getting to the point where I understand enough about this process that I can help other to achieve it as well.
With much love to you all,
Pink
Pink I think you have a lot to offer newbies and not so newbies here. I too think bluewave is a great asset to this board.However whist she is undoubtedly helping others I fear she is being affected negatively by being here. Please be sure you are fully ready before paying it back. Take the time you need. There will still be people to help afterwards.......unfortunately
Best wishes.
Hi Roist,
Thank you. This is a website that gives so much without judging. I know one day I will be in a position to give back, and even unfortunately, I know there will always be more people in need of help and direction. The support I always got here during my good, not so good, bad and darkest moments.
Now, updating on my situation...
The week of 11/7 to 11/11 there was no contact from XH. Total silence. I sent him a nice text on 11/8 but nothing back and left it alone for the rest of the week.
11/11 he came to the house to pick up the kids. He was very pleasant and one of the boys mention that saturday morning I would be helping the church on giving breakfast for the homeless. He asked me and I confirmed. He saw I had stuff to prepare sandwiches and cookie bags on the kitchen table.
Well, this time I did not ask for his help and tough he would not help. They came back and XH comes in. He then asked if he could help with the sandwiches and I said of course, that would be lovely and that I need the help.
We did it, he helped a lot and we talked a lot too. It was very nice. We did everything together, helping each other. There were no conflict. I was super calm, not anxious at all. He was smiling at times.
We talked about different stuff but there was also things about us here and there. We also talked about us and were we are. I said to him that it is still very difficult for me and that I was thinking to stop going to the church and avoid being around him.
He said I was making a mistake, that all what was done till now and I think it will be better to give up on it all. I said that he never invited me to go to that church, that he never really come to the house to see me or to talk to me, that I am the one putting myself in his way. That I am tired of all this and that I feel it is easier to just accept and move one.
He insisted I am making a mistake and then said that he does not have any right to ask me anything and that he understands if I don't want to be close to him.
When he left he said he was not sure he would go to the church saturday morning since he was tired and just coming back from a week long business trip.
It didn't feel good the way he was leaving and I didn't like what I did. So, I walked to his car and we talked more:
Me - XH, I am sorry I said all what I said. I wish you can understand how hard it is to feel this way.
XH - I understand what you said. But I also think that you feel a little different then you say.
Me - I do, but I am afraid I am lying to myself and there will be more pain because I am a romantic idiot.
XH - You are not an idiot, you know I have no life anywhere else. Pink, I am a man that is divorced for 1 year and 3 months and I am still alone, I could not have anyone else in my life. I do not have any life. The fact that I told you I went for a coffee with a woman other day, is because I never want to lie to you again. I want you to trust me. And that woman meant nothing to me.
Me - If I believe in what my heart knows about you, then I will have hope. But, this hope can hurt me again.
XH - I know, you are afraid and I am afraid. That's why we need to be friends.
Me - You and this friend stuff again, like I am not your friend.
XH - I want you to see a part of "The Last Samurai" movie, where the samurai talks to Tom Cruise for the first time, and then you will understand what I mean.
Me - Ok, I will.
XH - And then let me know what you understood.
Me - Alright. XH, one thing that bugs me the most is that you can fight for your job, career, school, golf and whatever, but you can't fight for your family, not even give it a shot.
XH - I really want you to see that movie and then you will realize what I am doing.
We then talked about his father. It was his father's death anniversary. He said that now he feels sad but he accept his father was sick and died when he was so young. That his father never abandoned him, that it was never his father intention to get sick and die. That he came to terms with this in every cell of his body.
It is very sad. I always felt very sad for him and all what happen in his life. But this time I actually showed him I have sympathy for his pain and respect it.
Well, he left and we were in good terms. When we hugged goodbye, I said to him that I would love to love him this way we are now, that I feel so much freedom when we talk. He smiled and said that we are in the right path.
I was a little late on saturday morning and in the way to church got a call from XH.
XH - Morning Pink, where are you?
Me - I am in my way to church, wake up late but I am almost there.
XH - I am here already, will see you soon then.
Me - OK.
When I got there he came to my car to let me know about some parking because the church parking lot was full. Weird, but he took his car from parking and went to park close to me. Then we walked together to meet the other people. He was very nice and smiling again.
We did the food distribution walking all over the city - XH was close to me most of the time. We even separated in small groups to cover more areas and he said: - Pink, we should go to X place. I did it all, but I confess that it feels awkward.
At the end we were walking back to church to meet with the big group and it was just so pleasant. We got there and he said he would go to the restroom. Wow, even that he tells me now.
I saw there was only two breakfast burrito left and got one for him and one for myself. When he came, he said he was hoping there was some left and I said that they were all gone. He made a sad face like playing and then I said: Don't be sad, I got one for you. I know you are hungry, we have been walking a lot.
He was happy, thanked me and gave me a kiss on my chic.
We were together with other members from the church and I checked the sweet pastry they had at the table. XH asked what I was doing and I said that I was dreaming about some sugar. He smiled and said that he was thinking the same and asked if we could share one. We did, and then we shared another one.
Towards the end he asked if we could leave, and then we walked together to the car. We hugged for a moment before getting into our cars, and he said he would be at the house in about an hour.
And he came, and we talked more.
Then he left with the kids to see a movie and to have dinner. When they came back he came in the house and asked if he would see me at church next morning and I said he would. He smiled and said that he was looking forward to it.
I need to go now but I want to finish and there is a lot more to come... Later
Pink
Continue... updating
So we see each other at the church and we are very nice to each other. XH continue to come forward, smile.
There was a get together after the church and he asked me if I was going. I said I was, but needed to do something before it and he said he was also going there for just a little bit.
When I got there, he was sitting with some of our friends but there was an empty chair beside him. I got some food an then asked if I could sit there and he said it with a smile, that of course I should.
One thing that I notice is that he is showing a lot more how much he cares and that he really enjoy my presence. He even says that.
Later I decided to go inside the house because it was getting cold outside. I excused myself and left. Later he came inside and asked if he could sit beside me. I looked at him and said that: Of course, it would be a pleasure.
Then he sat and said that he liked that I was being funny, then I looked at him and asked if it would be better if I squeezed him too against the cough, then a girl that was sitting beside me said that I was being very coquette.
He looked at her and said that it was my sweet side, the one that made him fall for me. He then told this girls how it all started between us. He even remember some details that I have forgotten.
As he was telling he was also embellishing all events and saying how beautiful I was then and how beautiful I am now. That I am still that same girl, full of life.
Then I took the chance and told her my side of the story and how gorgeous he was when I first put my eyes on him.
She basically looked at us and said that she never met a divorced couple that are so much in love with each other. I didn't contest what she said and neither him.
Then, a little later he left to go to my house and I stayed there a little more. When I got home he was there and watched a movie with us, then he left.
On Monday, S18 and I were very sick. I took S18 to the doctor and he has Influenza A. XH came to the house and cooked dinner. It was really nice to talk and cook some food too.
Since I am in a pretty bad shape, XH came to the house again yesterday and cooked dinner for us.
We have been talking and talking and it has been pleasant. I confess that it is not very good to be hanging in there because there is no guarantee on anything, but I feel we are moving somewhere now.
I want to have some guideline of what to do, so I will work on that and then post it here soon. Sorry, need to go again. Time is limited.
Love and Kisses,
Pink
I would watch that movie. Apparently the answer is with Tom Cruise and the samurai master!!!
Best wishes and keep us updated
Sorry you haven't been well Pink and wishing you a speedy recovery.
As for your XH, I don't think my advice there has changed for a good while. It is early days, and he is making some forward moves. Equally he is saying his life is a mess and he just wants to be friends.
I would continue with no expectations and let some more time pass - and if you have a gently building friendship during that time, then great. But I would try and draw back from R talks like you described above....maybe tell yourself, I will continue as I am until the New Year, then I'll reassess and just take it from there.
And continue to move solidly forward with your own life and make plans for yourself.
Get well soon! Xx
Thanks for stopping by Roist and Sotto...
Roist - I watched the movie and the part he wants me to watch and there was some kind of answer for what he is intending for now. These two characters are in each others path because life did it, the first step was to introduce themselves. Tom Cruise's character says he has questions and is very impatient. The samurai is content with the introduction of their names and is looking forward for the next conversation.
Throughout the movie the conversations continue, they start sharing their views on life, values. They start feeling comfortable with each other and their differences.
But the most important of all is that they cross each other paths as enemies. It is through those conversations that they become best friends that trust each other with their own lives.
This is the main point that XH is talking about, the message is that we need to keep talking to develop the trust and respect that was broken between us.
He is not wrong and the approach is the correct one if you want to build up a health R again. For me in specific, it is very hard because I would like to put the past beside us and work hard towards something we think can be good for us both.
But, lately I have been thinking that I changed a lot and that the best way is to take the time to develop a friendship we have lost. Is to get to know each other in our new skin. And even if my heart desire to work on some R, I know we are just trying to start something from new.
It is very tricky, because we can still see and smell the ashes of what have died.
Sotto - you are very right and I know that is what I should be doing. Moving forward and let the pieces fall whatever they fall. Unfortunately, as I wrote above, it is not much in my nature to let things go and live the moment.
Being very sincere, I can't say I have zero expectations. I don't get anxious as before, I am not consumed by what he does or doesn't, I keep dealing with my own life and moving forward with it. But inside my heart, I think about his words, his kindness.
It is almost impossible to ignore that he is trying his best to show me he cares, that he has changed and is working hard to change further and be better for his family.
On Monday, when S18 and I were very sick, he drove me to the pharmacy to pick up S18's meds, then he made tea for me. He went to the supermarket to get some food to prepare dinner. He actually called his work to let them know that he would be in a hour and half later because he was helping his family.
In the past it would never happen, his work was always in the first place. Above us all. I then made a point to send him a short message saying that I was proud of him, that even knowing that his work is very important, he manage to do both and put his family first. He was happy I said that. He said he used to think about these things but would not do it.
My only complain about this whole new events is that I would like to be important. I don't really know if this is still some post divorce drama that I have. Maybe I still feel very hurt and have too much of the rejection feelings hanging on me. Maybe is the simple fact that I was born a woman and like it.
I really don't know. But I would love if XH ask me for a coffee at least. Maybe dinner, or a movie. Something simple, but a time that would enable us to feel happy and relaxed. At home is nice, but he is cooking or there are the kids. It is almost like he needs to be in a safe zone when with me. And maybe that is exactly what he wants now, a safe zone.
By other hand, doing the safe zone, is also pushing me away somehow. I wish it didn't and I would just take what has been offered and let go, enjoy the moment. But I am not doing it. I am not over thinking, but I don't see any beauty on what is going on. There is no magic, no butterfly in my stomach. There is no feeling of mystery, desire.
I don't understand well what is going on inside of me, but I wish we could just try to hang with each other as I would do with a different guy that is just trying to know me right now. But there is this new with the old environment, what for me gets complicated.
Oh well, when you can't let it be, let it GOD. And that is all what I can do for now, let it all in God's hands and see what will happen.
And there is the Thanksgiving again. XH asked me what we will be doing since this year I have the Thanksgiving week. I said we would just hang out with each other at the house. I asked what he would be doing and he said that I know he doesn't really have a life, but he would stop by the old lady he used to live at her house, and that he didn't know what he would do later.
I don't know. Maybe it would be good to spend some more time together. Or, maybe I will just be giving him this family time and it is convenient for him to keep things were they are.
I was thinking that maybe I can invite him to spend the Thanksgiving with me. And say it very clear that it is to spend with me, not the kids, but me. That he would inevitably to spend time with his kids too, but the purpose was to spend time with me. But I don't know.
Sometimes I feel like doing the easy stuff, the easy way out, and just give up on it all. Just let go and don't really be there for him anymore. Anyway, this is what he wants since long, is to be single, have his own life and be away from me. Then it is like doing him a favor.
I am writing all this even if it is like reading a book. But, sometimes I look around to read something that tells me how it was to get together again or to give up in it all and I can't really find the details that took people to their last straw.
I just hope this hopeless feeling is coming from my Flu, otherwise I will be telling here very soon, that I fell out of love for my XH. We will see.
Thanks to all of you,
Pink
I think letting things unfold and not pushing them is the way to go here. In your post above, you want to press forward into reconciliation, romance even. Much better to gently build a friendship and keep any expectations very low. Why? Because MLCers tend to grow warm towards you and then cool, then warm etc. They are still cycling and until they settle down, you risk being pulled along by that and then getting so fed up you walk away completely.
You so want to be wanted by him and I think that need within yourself is for you to address, not for him to meet. If you want to invite him for Thanksgiving, I would do so as you would a friend and welcome him into your home for a meal and to spend time with his family - not insisting he be there for you.
JMHO of course Pink and I hope this helps my lovely xx
Hey Pink, I like the fact gag he asked you to watch the film to put across how he feels. I might check if out, I don't think I see ever seen it before.
I completely understand about wanting to feel important and to know that H is there for you and not just the kids. When my H first left he used to come over once a week for family evening. At first he would just come in sit down eat and then leave. He actually told me not to think coming over was another 'rung on the ladder' in our relationship. I was devastated but I soon realised that I was using this time as an opportunity to be close to him but it did not make me feel good as I knew he was there to see my D and not me. After a small discussion about the fact that he made no effort when he came over he started bringing take out food and a bottle of wine for me. Again I so wanted that to be because he wanted to see me but alas it was just him being nice.
After a few 2x4s on here I stopped family time altogether and left him and my and my D to sort out whatever relationship they wanted but without me. After going dark for seven weeks I invited him out for coffee and we are now going out for coffee for the third time. I know everyone says he should be doing all the chasing but I know he just isn't like that but he does seem happy to meet me so I am taking that as a positive sign and hoping we can take some baby steps and see where they takes us.
What I'm trying to say that you are right about needing to separate your relationship with H as a parent and as a partner. It is easy to confuse spending time as a family as a way to get closer. I think this can only happen once you are further down the line. Have you thought of asking H to go for coffee or go out for something to eat?
Thanks Sotto and Coly,
Sotto - as usual you are right, and the zero expectation is the most important factor here. The MLCer effect is still present there. I see signs that it is not so foggy as before and that he started regretting some of his choices for when he was totally insane.
But again, it is like you said, he is still trying to figure it out on his big mess and is not really ready to step up and take on a big responsibility and challenge as well.
And another true thing is that if I push too hard I may walk away. Actually that happens inside of me so many times now. I feel like just not thinking about this anymore. I feel like I deserve better then just this mess and someone that did so much to just take his sweet time to sort things and not just be serious about M and family and take things slow but with the attitude of helping it to be better.
I just guess that I will keep doing it until I don't do it anymore. If one day I decide to walk away, then it won't hurt anymore either.
Coly - I think I passed the "being there for me" in a house. We openly spoke about trying to make it work again. He expressed that he needs to move slow and would like us to be friends first and get to know each other now.
My point in this is that if he wants to try to make it work and get to know each other, then why not once in a while to go out and spend some time together that doesn't involve the house, our routine, kids, dogs, and blah, blah, blah.
Before, he would be at the house with some excuse, then talk to me for a short time and other times for a long time. Now, he is OK to say he would like to come to the house and hang out with me.
He is not on his phone like before, he smiles and touch me very often. He says openly that he loves me and wants me to understand he cares for me more then I think and more then he tough.
He tells me all the time that there is no one in his life and that he can see the mistakes he made.
So, you see we are past that accident, coincidence visit for the kids and getting me in the mix. Now, he comes to be with me.
And yes, why don't Pink invite him out for a coffee? a Movie? First, because I am afraid of being too fast for him. Second, I do not want to be rejected with some tip excuse (XH has this way of DBing and I do not like). Third, I am moving forward, dealing with my life and let him sort things out if he wants to move forward with our R or not, then I understand that he is the one that one day will knock my door and say that he would like to go out with me - (Because he really wants it and can't wait for tomorrow).
Why he is not stepping up to the task? Because he is not sure that is what he wants. Why he is not sure? Maybe because he knows me at my own house, with responsibilities, house chores, teenagers in the mix, dog, etc...etc... .
Writing all this I think I have my own answer and that is to go a little bit into his building friendship, but keep some distance for now. I do feel I deserve better then the bread crumbs and I won't feel good about myself if I invite him for a coffee.
Ladies, sometimes we get so strong, that we can't bend the situation no more.
I love you guys, you all storm my brain and the answer is right there.
Love you all,
Pink
So yesterday I arrived at the church and as soon as XH saw me, he came smiling to say Hi, give me a nice hug and ask me how I was feeling.
I smiled back, hugged him and said that I was not feeling a 100%, still fighting the stomach pain and this horrible flu, but not as bad as before.
He asked me if I ate. What was always his deal because when I don't feel well I don't eat. I said I had a Papaya and an Yogurt and he gave me a little lecture saying that I never should have an yogurt when I have a stomach flu. And went further saying that I should be eating some chicken soup.
Well, I promise him I would eat the chicken soup and stop the dairy. Then he smiled and said: Oh Pink, you never take care after yourself!
As he was saying it there is a translation as for our history together - it says: Oh Pink, I need to be there to take care after you as I always did. And he did as a fact, I was never very receptive because of my nature to fill grumpy when I hurt, but he did. Now I can see it better, because I changed and I accept to be weak and hurting, and accept his advice with tender and love.
It is indeed a big change for me. I have learned to let people love me in their own way. I have learned to accept the love and feel good about it.
This reaction is amazing, because it gives XH and other people in my life, some room to show me how much they love me and appreciate me for what I am.
How easy is that, and how hard was for me to understand it and come to terms with myself. So again, this whole nightmare comes as a benefit to learn skill I would never learn without this tragedy in my life.
During the service I had my prayer time and then I saw that XH was on duty. I walked to him and told him I would be at his place and that he could take the time to do his prayer.
He thanked me and hugged me strong. There was warmth in that hug, there was caring and love. There was no many words, just the touch, the eye contact. Those that gives you certainty that we care for each other.
Later, when he was done, he came back and hugged me again, with the same warmth as before. I did not say anything, I just accept the love and caressed his face with my hand and smiled.
More and more we are talking again with gestures and our eyes.
It's still something weird because we are like a couple, everyone treats us as a couple and we are not together. But, in our world there is a mix of our faith and we leave it to God's care and guidance, so things happen because God's desire for us to be in this direction.
Maybe for the non believers, it is a bit crazy. But, the believers that read this, will understand perfectly what that means.
The service was done, we gather together in a small group to chat a bit about the activities for the weekend and then I left. Said goodbye in general and did not make it special for XH, I just said goodnight.
A few minutes later XH calls me and wants to find out some details from S18, if he was going to school or not and how he was doing. I explained the plan and said that he didn't need to worry about and that everything was fine.
I noticed that he didn't want to end the conversation. In other times I would be glad and trying to chat my lungs off, but this time I was like... OK, so we talk tomorrow.
And again, we prove just one factor... when you LET GO of all that anxiety, fear, desperation, need... that's is when you start seeing them to turn their heads towards us.
Am I a master in this DBing thing? No, not at all. It took me 2years to let go on the outside and a little bit on the inside. I did the 180s to the point that I started believing in them. I faked it to the point I made it. I came to the board like a wet dog complaining and wanting to finish my life and got 2 x 4s and kind words over and over... and over again.
But I followed many advices I got here. I read and re read many times the words that were given to me. I cried with pain trying to mold the person I wanted to be.
I made mistakes and more mistakes and sometimes I lost so much for walking backwards because of my reactions to my perception of what was happening.
Is this story done? No. Is this a happy ending? No. Is this still a process? Yes. There is hope? Yes.
Yes, I decided to accept that he is putting the work, and that he is a lot more open to me comparing to the last two years. He is more affectionate and have been more lovely towards me.
Deciding that also makes me more receptive to what he is able to offer me now. I will pray for my patience tough. It is very hard indeed. But there is no other way around if I want a good R this time. Even I noticed that time will also build something good inside of me as well.
I know about yesterday and have learned, am learning and will learn further what was good and what needs to be trashed forever because the good will be reinforced and the bad needs to be replaced with new skills, new knowledge.
I don't know about tomorrow and through my faith I will leave it in my Lord's hands. So I rest knowing that I will be OK no matter what, if not better then I am.
But I want to live the moment. I never really had this kind of R with XH. We met, we talked a lot by phone and we were getting married the third time we saw each other.
Now, I want to live this friendship, this process of building up feelings and emotions. I want to be his girlfriend one day and feel those butterflies in my stomach. I want to date him. Dress for him, look good for him.
Maybe you are reading and thinking that I am in a romantic side today, and you are right because yesterday I decided to open my eyes and see that the work I have been doing these whole two last years is maybe, just maybe working out. Maybe, just maybe, we are one of those lucky couples that decide to look into ourselves and give another shot at our family.
I will keep posting my journey here. I wish that no matter how it will end, my story will enable someone to fight for their family, M and love. That they will bend like iron in the fire, feel the pain and become better people for themselves and for others in their lives.
Believe me... It is an incredible journey!!!
Love you all,
Pink
Do it, Pink. Invite him to spend Thanksgiving with you. I know everyone is telling you to be cautious, and they are probably much smarter than I am about all this. But heck, I don't know what else he has to do to prove to you that he has changed, loves you, and wants a life with you. I know he said he needs to be cautious, but remember what you told me one night last January when we realized we're both on here... believe nothing they say and half of what they do. So I don't really believe he's not ready for a R with you!!! I think he's DBing YOU!! Because, really, isn't that what we'd be saying to our waywards..."I'm not ready!" So my non-DB advice is GO FOR IT. Try and let go of your fears and your caution. Laugh with him, kiss him, look into his eyes. Love him with all your heart and soul. Like he loves you.
I LOVE it about the friends intervening and telling you two to take the leap. That's a great service those friends did. They are true friends of your marriage. We all need that.
Pink, it's time to let go of the fear. Yes, it will be hard, very hard. But if you can forgive him - and maybe your faith will help with that? - it will be worth it.
My W and I still struggle, mainly because I find it hard to forgive her (and remember we all work at the same place so they occasionally see each other - but those interactions are sporadic and W says she's avoiding them.) As time passes and there are fewer ow sightings and fewer interactions between them it gets better. Sometimes I slip and get angry and scared. It's all on me. She's trying hard. I too have to forgive.
Do it, Pink. Make this Thanksgiving something you will remember forever. Give thanks. Love. Laugh.
Hi Pink, respectfully I don't agree with the advice from NYG - though it is well meant I am sure. I think if you are dealing with a MLC spouse - jumping in with both feet would be ill-advised. I don't believe this would be a time to throw caution to the wind - particularly as your XH has told you he just wants to be friends right now and his life is still a mess.
I think inviting him to Thanksgiving dinner is fine - though I would do it on a light and friendly basis and have no expectations....perhaps others will chime in too though...
Xx
Pink,
I don't see a problem inviting your xh to Thanksgiving dinner, but I would phrase the invite in such a way that he makes up his mind to come or not. Treat him as you would a friend w/little to no expectations.
Your xh is still baking up and he has reminded you that he wants to be friends and that's where you need to start your relationship w/him again....as friends. You both have changed over the last few years and it's going to take some time to get use to each other and trust me, that's going to have some ups and downs for a while. Go back to being friends, then dating and then go from there. You've got time on your side...use it wisely. Don't rush the process. In fact, I am recommending that you read LouR's recent thread. It might help you better understand the caution we keep telling you about.
Hi all, having a bad day today and remember that much have happen and I did not write it down. I feel lost, disturbed and sad. It seems that the nightmare never ends and as much as I know that I control my side of the situation, there are days I feel like it is all a huge mess inside of me.
But, just want to say hi and will get back later to let you all know the last events since last Thanksgiving. Lots and lots that may help someone along their life stories, so I will write it here later.
Still love you,
Pink
Hello my lovely...I'm sorry you're having a bad day Sweetheart. I'm sending big hugs to you from across the ocean and wishing you a better evening and a better day tomorrow.
Do remember that feelings will come and go - even a good while after our situation has settled down - so these feelings you currently have will pass and you will soon feel brighter again.
I'll check in again to see your next post and respond...and you know where I am in the real world too if you need me.
Xxx
Hi Sotto, you are awesome and amazing. God bless you beautiful. I got your Merry Christmas wishes and I am sorry I never answered it. Had surgery by Thanksgiving and wasn't doing well by XMas.
Thanksgiving - as I told you all, I was thinking in not inviting XH. But it just happen that I got sick and he came to the house everyday, and sometimes he stayed over to take care after me.
He was excellent before, during and after my surgery. It was the husband I always dreamed about.
Funny that he doesn't even blink, and at night he goes to, what is now my bedroom and my bed, and make himself comfortable. Of course, everything happen with the excuse that he needs to be there if I need anything during the night.
Then XMas comes and he is there all the time. And we had a good time. Life was for awhile normal.
There was times of hard talk, but most is about my realization that sometimes I could be less right and more happy. And from his side, realizations that he could be more present and give more time to his family.
It is not bad to talk about these things, but they are painful because they are what they are and we talk about, but there is no way to resolve what was done and what it is.
He says with all the words that he loves me. That it is not just because I am his kids mom as I say, but he loves me as a woman.
But, in all of these talking, he also says that we had many chances and we couldn't make it work. That he failed me as a husband and he also tried to make it work but couldn't.
So, he says all this and then find all the excuses in the world to be around. It is a huge NIGHTMARE sometimes.
On 12/30 we agreed to go out together to celebrate S19's BDay. The kids had a friend and you know how that goes, they are talking and the old folks talk to each other.
We had lunch together, we went for a coffee, and then we went to a movie and shared popcorn. It was amazing, we talked about several things and were not talking about us at all.
Leaving the movie theater, he asked if he could drive me home (I was with the kids first and then was riding with him from place to place) and I said that was OK. When we arrived at the house, he asked if he could come in and have a cup of tea and I agreed.
We talked more and were having a good time. Then from nowhere, he says that he would give me some space in the next week. I looked at him like did not really understood the point. And then he says that he did not want me to think the wrong things.
At that time I lost it. I was angry and really wanted to punch him right in the middle of his face. I told him to leave, leave the house, my life and to go forever and never look back. That I had enough and was not his toy to play with.
He just stood there, when I stopped my rampage, he asked if I was feeling better. I said no, I will only feel better when there is no sign of you in this world.
Then I said: And by the way, do you have space in your car, because you can get your stuff from the garage. He then said that he was super offended. That I did need to be so angry with him. Then I just said that I do what I want, when I want and the way I want and you don't have a say in my life. And I really do not care a bit what you think about my anger or not. He left.
Saturday morning we had a church board meeting and I did even more. I got there and he had a big smile to say good morning! I did not smile back, instead I said that before we started the meeting that I wanted to communicate to everyone that I would take some time for myself.
They, of course, asked what was going on, why my decision? I said it flat, that I did not have a problem with anyone or anything and the only reason I was taking the time is because I couldn't be any longer in the same place as my XH. That I needed my time to cure myself and clean my heart and spirit and once I was better I would come back.
Many people asked questions and said that I need to forgive him, to give him a chance. Well, I am seating there listening to all these comments and then I said: Are you all going crazy? It is not a matter of "me" giving chances or forgiving XH. We are divorced and he keep making it clear that he doesn't want to work in any aspect of our relationship and I am no longer being a toy and dreaming about something that doesn't need my decision to be fixed because I know what I want and I know what I am willing to do... and now I know my reality too and will stop being a dreamer. Then I left.
That day in the afternoon he came to the house and we talked. He gave me a million reasons why I shouldn't quit the church, the board, the people. He again said how much he loves me and told me that he is working on himself and that he is nobody, and his life is a mess, and that he has no idea of what will happen tomorrow, and that only God knows and we need to believe God and blah, blah, blah.
I told him I was not his enemy, I just need to have a life in a tranquil place. That my wounds are deeper then I tough and I wanted to take my time to think what next in my life.
He left and did not schedule any day to pick up his stuff. Really????
Then I did not go to church on sunday. Sunday night, pretty late, he shows up at my door to give me a check of only part of what he needed to pay for dec/16. I couldn't believe, why in this world he needed to give that check? Anyway, I took the check and said thank you, that I appreciated it. Then said good night and have a nice trip.
To be continue......
Sorry, need to go now, Pink
Continuing...
Well, after a few weeks not going to church anymore, on Thursday 1/19 I got a msg from XH saying that he was arriving late at the airport but would maybe not be going there and asking me if I was going. I answered him that I was going and that he didn't need to mind me because I made peace with it. That I knew better it is about my faith and not about me neither about him. He didn't make it.
I also went to church on sunday 1/22 and there we go. Comes the time that everyone great each other and I was avoiding him. He came and made a point to say hi and grab my hand. I kind stayed firm but he pulled me and gave me a kiss on my chic. Oh well, I said hi, God bless you and walked away.
On Monday I got two emails, one with a schedule for our S16 visitation like all feb/16 there is probably traveling, to be confirmed. So, what is the point of such schedule? Well, then a question asking if it would be OK for him to see the super bowl with us at the house.
The second email was some explanations about his deposits dates that have been changed.
He comes to the house to see the kids and needs to use the restroom, or change clothes.
My point with this is that he doesn't want to come back, and I say this because he knows my position about this. That I am willing to try, willing to give it another shot, start somewhere slowly. So, it is all up to him and he doesn't move. My take is that he made up his mind and will move on as he said from the beginning.
But then I question myself why he is always around. And some of my friends say that he just gave you a check, he just explained something, he drives too long and needs to use the restroom, he this and he that. There is always a reason why he is around.
I don't call him ever, I don't go to his house, I don't start any conversation. WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?
He asked to be my friend. I got many advices here to go with the flow and just be friends. But when I am just a friend, he goes back into "us" and of course, I most of the time (like 98%) I bite the bate and we end up talking about us in a way, sometimes not even so straight forward.
I JUST DON'T GET IT. WHAT AM I SUPPOSE TO DO? I can't really cut all contact with him. But, then he is in my life in a way.
And it is not that I do not want, but I really don't know even how to behave around him anymore. Ahh, I forgot... the latest he says now is: "I am alone, I have no one in my life for a long time and I don't want to have anyone right now, but I am not lonely."
Like lately, if we are in the same place, I catch him always looking at me. Even some people tell me that.
I don't know, sometimes I just would like to disappear and never see him again and be cure of this horrible sickness.
Well, I wrote some of the soup opera that was going on since last Thanksgiving. My life in general is not bad. I have my days but most days I feel OK even in the middle of this storm.
I should confess that sometimes I even feel better the way I am now, so it is not bad at all.
Right now, I am keeping my distance and just being polite. But, we see each other all the time. And this will be the way of our lives for awhile yet.
I welcome any advice, or question or criticism. Sometimes the one inside the situation can't see it well, but people can see better from the outside. So, feel free to say anything. Believe me, when you are in this kind of life, anything help.
And if you are the one that are going through some crazy like me, maybe reading my post and the reply I get may help you to at least know you are not alone.
Not even saying that I did not forget about the whole insanity of this "MLC".
Even late I wish you all a Happy 2017. May this year be better then last.
With Love,
Pink
Hi Pink, I think the main issue is that you do 'bite the bait' as you say - based on something he says on a particular day. The thing is, he still sounds confused and bounces about - seems keen, then distant - then wants to come around, then enjoys his 'aloneness' - etc...
So, can you accept that this is where he is right now and live your life with few expectations of him and protecting your own heart? Anytime he advances your own expectations rise and then are dashed and you are disappointed - wash, rinse repeat..
Things have been this way for a while in this situation and possibly nothing will change with your XH for a little while....so are there changes you could make within yourself....whilst choosing to leave the door open a tiny crack if you want to?
I'm glad you are enjoying life generally though my lovely xx
I have a little bit of a different take.
I feel like something is missing from your narrative. I read it as one day your ex said he would give you some space for a week and he didn't want you to get "the wrong idea" and you went ape sh!t on him. Did you calmly asked what he meant by space and "get the wrong idea"? Or did you just go off on him like you detailed right when he said those words?
I really don't know if we are missing a piece to this/
I am not there, I am not in your shoes. But from what you write, I don't see a cake-eater. I see a man who loves you who is trying to work through stuff with you who has his own demons to deal with himself, but you want it to happen at your pace and in your way. You can't quite grasp why he just won't recommit to the marriage fully right now.
I have never been in your position, and I certainly can't pass judgement, but you have a serious chance with patience. I would keep my eye on the goal and maybe consider the journey there may a little bumpy and slower than you would like, but out of any of the stories I've seen for the many years on this board, you've got one of the best fighting chances here.
But you need to decide if you can have the patience. Do you in your heart really think he is cake eating and being selfish, or do you think he just needs to take it slow because he has stuff to work out himself?
I've noticed you blow your top when he pulls back a little and you retreat away from him. It's not going to be a linear path, but YOU have to be ok with that.
Pink,
I can see where Sotto and Ginger are coming from. You have expectations and when he pulls back, you get angry. From where I'm sitting, I see a man who is trying to get to where he needs to be in order to be "whole" again. I see a man who cares very deeply for you and yes, any relationship starts out as friends and when you are friends, it can and will evolve into something more if you allow him the time he needs to heal, face his demons and get his confused mind back into a normal state.
The question I have for you is this...if your xh were still your h and he was in a coma, would you wait patiently for him to wake up on walk away and say that's it, I'm done? Pink, if you want to explore the possibility of getting back together or being really parents who can co-parent, then you are going to have to lower your expectations, do not take what he says to heart and yes, take the bait. You are going to have to dig deeper for patient and know that it takes a very long time for them to work thru their issues. You can't rush the process and you've allowed yourself to be on his rollercoaster far too long...step off the ride and I think that if you detach for now and just listen w/o allowing your anger to get to you, you just might find that things will progress slowly but surely.
Pink, you've got a really good chance of reconciling w/your xh, but you've got to get yourself on stable ground and allow him to heal and to just listen to what he has to say and yes, stop the knee jerk reactions. I know that this is very difficult for you, but you can't control him, his feelings or his thoughts, but you can control how you react to what he says and his behavior...calm down, breathe and just listen. Come here if you want to vent, but you can't rush the process...it just doesn't work that way.
Hello Pink,
Not sure I have much advice but from what I can read XH know that no matter what you will still be there for him. I think your kids are old enough to meet him without him having to come to the house. If he comes to see kids, leave the house and go for a walk or grocery shopping.
Maybe going dark would be good. Just a thought.
Wow, just reading what Sotto, Ginger and Job wrote gave me a shiver down my spine! They might just have been writing about me!
I can imagine you are both very confused right now. I think sometimes having an R talk is the only way to know where you both are and if you are on the same page...
Hugs Pink.
Hey I am Pink... Had some technical problems and couldn't log in. Now I log in with a different info.
Thank you so much Sotto, Ginger, Job, Rouky and Coly, I really appreciate your help, your unconditional love in this board. It is very inspiring to read your opinion on my issues and all the advices to make me a better person.
I think Sotto, Ginger and Job are all right on what is happening. I did some soul searching and I have very high expectations when XH comes forward. Then he sees I am more acceptable and pulls back and I do get angry.
Ginger you are right on the money here. When he told me he needs to give me some space, I blew on him big time. I did not calmly asked why he was saying that. I just got so offended that we had spent such nice time together and he dismissed it all saying those words.
I see now that he is looking for a person that has the emotional balance, that is strong and had changed the blame game. He may be looking for acceptance since he still feels very guilty. Instead, I showed him that I will be always the same way it was before. I get angry and blew on him.
Updating what happen after that...
The whole blew on him and telling him to get out of my life, my face, my house... happen on Friday 12/30/16. On Saturday, we had a board meeting at the church. I went to the meeting and before it started, I told them that I decided to take some time out. That there was no problems with anyone or anything. That the only reason I was taking my time was to be away from XH.
He was there and heard all what I said, what was not much. He put his hands on the table and rested him face on it the whole time.
Some ladies start saying things like I need to forgive him, that I need to give him a chance, and blah, blah, blah. I looked at them and said:
- I am sorry and I really don't know what planet you are, but XH divorced me, he does not want to be with me and made it clear for a long time. It doesn't have anything to do with me, I just need to take my time and live my life the way it should be. One thing I am sure, I am not his toy and I do not want to be his toy any longer.
Then I left. And guess what!!!!
That same afternoon he comes to the house to talk. I sat with him and he start saying that he can't make decisions for me and that he is nobody to tell me what to do, but he thinks it is wrong to quit the church, that those people love me, they care for me and they pray for my happiness.
He said that now that I was so close, then I decide to quit.
I didn't ask what he meant to "so close". But I told him that this is my desert to walk and that I need the time to put myself in a better place. That I understand his concerns, respect his opinion but I will walk on my on feet to find my own path.
He was very polite, very nice and very caring. He moved close to me, but at that point I kept it to myself and my body showed him: Please, do not touch me or get close to me.
When he left we were in good terms. We were talking calmly and he was trying to make sure I was OK, that I would be OK. I reassured him that I was fine, just need my time.
On sunday, it was kind of late, I was on the phone with my mom and I heard a knock on my door. My mom said it was XH and I said it couldn't be because it was late and he had a early trip next day. I opened the door and there he was, looking at me like a wet dog. He then gave me a check with a partial payment from the kids monthly expenses.
He said that he brought it because maybe I needed the money for the week. Odd, because he just paid me on Friday for two months expenses. I said that to him, and also said that I appreciate him thoughtfulness. I did not ask him to come in and he noticed I was on the phone. So I said thank you and have a good trip.
He was said, he was looking beaten up, but left.
My mom was laughing, and said that she is a good witch and can always guess who is knocking on my door, even from 5000 miles away. Haha!!!
Some time went by and I was not at the church. But the point was not going there because I want some time by myself. Then, the point was totally ignored. A Saturday after that XH is in the house picking up the kids, then he came to drop them off and came in the house. We talked for about 4 to 5 hours. Most was him telling every single detail about his work life, and some things from his life in general.
He made a point to say a few times that he is alone but not lonely. That he is understanding more and more that he could be a different person. Once I mention that he would remake his life and that I wish he can be happy and have a nice life. He then said again that I should understand that he has no one in his life and does not want to have anyone in his life right now. Oh well, OK then.
When he left we were feeling good with each other. He gave me a hug and a kiss on my chic, then left.
There comes the week and there is a message from him.
He wrote this:
- Pink - I would ask if you are going to the church tonight. As I am arriving late to the airport, I do not know if there would be any chance to make it to the church before the service is over.
I reply this:
- Don't worry anymore. I took my time and I am in peace with myself. I finally got it that it is not about me, my pain or my pride. It is about God. I have my call and work to do. I went to other church, but I know I need to help that specific church. Nothing is a mistake, God does everything right, good and perfect.
- I also came to understand forgiveness, with prayer and God's help I am being able to forgive the people that hurt me and forgive myself for the hurt I caused in other people and mainly you that was the one I did not meant or wanted to hurt.
- I gave it all to God and will follow my path whatever it is, with no hate, no crying.
- Christ is love, and I decided to be like him.
- I will resume going to church even if you are there.
- You put a period in our lives together and I understand and accept that now.
- Understand, that I forgive, understand and accept, but I do not agree, or give excuses or forget. I still think that our lives together had more value to fight for, but that is my opinion, not yours and I get it.
- So, do not mind my presence as I won't mind yours. I am actually very proud of all you are doing.
- Thanks for asking, you are always so polite, it is nice.
- And by the way, I still don't understand why God put us in the same church, but for this lifetime I will let that go, maybe I will ask him once I meet him on day. He knows better the lessons and purposes of our lives.
- I humbly ask for your pardon for my big deal about the church and for exposing so much for so many. I do not regret my decision as I feel better no, but it was raw to get you involved.
- God bless you.
He never wrote a work about it. On sunday we saw each other and of course he came to say hi. I was more on my own space then, tried to believe he was not there.
In all of this, nothing happen regarding his behavior. He comes to the house, he wants to know if I am OK. Keep trying conversation.
This is new: On 1/30 I got a message from him saying:
- Hi Pink - if you want to call me this week, or for any emergency, please use my work phone.
I tried not to read to much into this because he probably forgot his private phone. But, for a very long time he didn't care about this. Now he remember to let me know, what means he thinks about it.
I saw him during the week and it called my attention too that he said he suddenly have been able to see things a little more clear. He mention that he felt like being in a thick fog for a long time and that the fog is lifting up.
Curious to hear this, when we talk about it here. The whole MLC effect. So, I guess he is like Job says: In the process.
But, I have been keeping my cool. Not too open anymore. We talked but I listen more now, and talk a lot less. Last Friday, we talked and he was telling me that he may have a job opportunity very close to the house, like 5min drive. Then I said that it would be an hour from his home and that is a huge commute every day. He then repeat that it would be 5min from the house and that he could be closer to see the kids, and be closer to help me a little more.
After talking for about an hour and a half. He said something an I smiled, then he mention that it was the first time that night that I smiled. That he saw me very sad and he likes when I smile. I told him that I was paying attention in what he was saying.
On Saturday he came to the house and I wasn't there. He was hanging with the boys and I got home and start putting some donations in my car. He came, said hi and said that he would like to talk to me. Once I finished, I went to the kitchen to fix a salad for myself and asked what was up. He then gave me a card. I did not open it, I said thank you and rested it at the counter top. Then left.
That night he came to the house I was fixing another salad. He said goodbye to the boys and stayed in the kitchen. I did not turn to him and did not say anything. He stayed there quiet, and after a while he said:
- Well, I will be leaving now.
I said:
- Alright XH. Have a good night.
I could count his steps to the door because he moved so very slow. Then he opened the door and took a while to leave. I did not go to the door as usual.
He asked if he could see the super bowl "with you". What in America it is a little confusing, because "with you" means with me or me and the boys. Oh well, I made everything as I would be there and arranged to go somewhere else without telling him.
He left church before me and when I got home he was at the house already. As I got there he asked if I wanted some hamburger, or hot dog or a brat. I said thank you for offering, but I would just eat something light and leave.
I was outside for a while and he came and said that I didn't need to leave just because he was there. I said that I knew it and that I just had some things to do. He then repeat that he was thinking I would be there to watch the super bowl and that I didn't need to go anywhere else, and I said to him: - Just let go XH, make believe I am not here already, that I am invisible.
He said: - You are not invisible and will never be invisible to me.
I then walked to the kitchen and got a bottle of wine out of the pantry. He was just starting setting up the table and starting making a lot of noise with plates and silverware. I didn't say a thing. Just put my shoes on and said good bye. He was upset.
When I come back after the game, for my surprise he was still there. It just happen that he decided to go to the airport from my house. He stayed at the house until 10pm. He even changed and came to the family room (where I was sitting watching post game interviews) and fixed his shirt into his pants right there. I almost told him that I do not need to see his underwear anymore. But I did let go on that too. He was a show off.
He kept making conversations about the game. Asked me if I saw what happen. I said that I did not see the game. Then he asked again, this time if I saw Lady Gaga's show. I again said that I did not see it. But I did not say what I was doing either.
I was in the backyard and he came and said that he was leaving. I almost said: yeah, and what? But, I was polite and wished him a good trip. It was his mom's birthday on Monday and I knew he was going to see her, so I told him to wish happy birthday to her. I did not hug him, I sat there and said goodbye.
About the card: It is a beautiful card. The envelope is blue the way I love it. The card has pink roses the way I like it. It is a very feminine card and the words say that "God makes very little miracles in our lives that it is hard to see it"
He wrote inside the card:
- I am sorry I am giving you a Christmas gift only now. Thank you for your thoughtfulness and understanding.
- You are a very amazing and special person.
- This gift is from me and our three sons.
- Love,
- XH
It is a little trick for me because I gave him a store gift card for a men's suites store. The he gave me the same amount in cash.
I am not sure if he really cares to give a gift or if he found a polite way to give me the money back.
*****************
After all this, I realized that it has been a theme for me to run away from him. My Pastor said in his faithful way that I have been praying for God to help us to heal and get back together. And maybe I need to believe that God is doing just that. But it is me that is keeping the distance.
Then I tough that it has some truth to that. That I am still trying to DB him but it has no sense sometimes. I figured that my biggest challenge now is to overcome my fear. I want something to happen but I do not want to get hurt.
Of course no one wants to get hurt. But one of my biggest problem when I was married was accepting his love for me. I always had a very hard time to accept that someone loves me. Weird no? But very true.
My question: What you think I should do? Start accepting his love the way it is right now and live the moment without expectations of what will happen from there?
My Pastor's opinion is that I need to be his friend and flirt with him. React like he is a totally different man, like there is no history between us and see him as a new possible love in my life. I am kind of thinking it would be possible.
Maybe I am healing a lot more now after so long time. Maybe it is easier to let go on all what happen and just go with the flow for now and yes, flirt with him and see what happen.
Today there is a service at the church and I will probably see him, it will be briefly. Saturday we have a Valentine's dinner at the church and I already bought a very elegant lace long dress for myself, I set up my appointment with my hair dresser to give some touch ups on my highlights, have my appointment for my eye browns and nails too. I want to be beautiful. Well, I think that if I am not young, at least I need to be looking good.
And this is my soup opera till now. I still hope that this will help someone else that will be in my shoes someday!!!
Love you all!
Pink
Hi Pink, actually I would take any pressure off yourself. Is he offering love and are you refusing it? I wouldn't even think that way just now. From what you post, you guys are still pretty reactive with each other. I would only seek to rebuild some kind of friendship at this point and if you would both like to move that on to something more in the future, you could do. But these are big decisions to make and neither of you sound to be in a good place to do that just now.
It sounds as though the pursuit and distance dynamic is still at work in your situation and it may just be good for you both just to get to a point of more neutrality. At the moment, he pursues a bit, you respond, then he distances, then you get angry and you blow up. Then he gets a little scared and comes forward, and so do you, but then he draws back etc, etc..
There are many ups and downs, and still something of a rollercoaster picture. You don't sound detached from him, but you do still sound angry at him when he withdraws. Can you offer only friendship, not hope for more, and not react when he withdraws?
That would be the way forward I think. And if you choose to offer friendship, do keep making your own plans and having your own things going on.
All JMHO of course, but hope this helps a little xx :-)
Hi Sotto,
Thanks for your words. You are wise beyond your years girl. I actually envy your strength. Sometimes I feel like I can tackle the world and then I feel like I can do nothing and have no direction.
Maybe I also have my own rollercoaster?? There is a very big truth in all this and that is I allow so much of all this to affect me.
I did some soul searching and found:
1. Detachment - I have "0" detachment at the moment. What I do is to get away in order to protect myself and then fall back into the game because I am still attached and everything pulls me back.
2. Owning my life - kind of do and kind of don't. I feel like I have a weight connect to my foot and I am dragging that around. I am not alone and can't just take any dramatic decision just now. I am in a waiting mode and it is killing me. I say waiting because my kids (young men) need help, they are not doing well right now. And my youngest one wants to finish high school at the one he is attending.
3. Life is busy - the days goes fast and I just have so much to do all the time. It is not different then when I was married, but now I would like to have some free time and I do not have it. Have my priorities disorganized.
4. Biting the bait - this one is big for me. Lately, I feel actually ashamed for falling into the pit all the time. I can see what I do, and yet I keep doing it like an idiot.
5. Hate, disappointment, hurts, wounds, fear, uncertainty, jealousy, love, anger... - I notice that my feelings are bigger then my reason for the most part of my day. Maybe it is another phase and I am still working on all what happen. But this give me a feeling of failure too, like I need to be all good by now and feel I am walking like a turtle.
So, being honest I have a lot of work to do on myself and I think I am my worse enemy when it comes to healing. I have constant contact with my XH and it is not being very healthy for my own good.
I am glad that I can read some things here in the board and get myself back into some reality. It's hard to believe that some people will be playing with someone's else feelings, but in this board we read so much wrong behaviors from partners that don't really care about anybody else, but themselves, that I better believe that sometimes it is the way and there is no other excuse.
I am tired of feeling this way. I am tired of this whole situation and I am ashamed I have been in the same spot since 2014. I realized that I am losing some of my life because I keep attached to some ghost R from the past.
I started organizing my head and I am deciding to take the decision to love me a little more. One thing that bothers me the most is that I am feeling disrespected and I do not like it. Even worse is that I am the one disrespecting myself as a person. It is time to step back and look inside myself and organize my plans to move forward.
It sounds cliché, but that is the way I see my life right now. That no one will change it for me. I need to do this for myself and feel some pride again. I don't even mean to feel an arrogant pride, but feel my independency, my wholeness.
I have a women's seminar schedule for 4/21 to 4/23 - it is called Women in the Battle. It's Christian based seminar and it is supposed to deal with all what is in my life for so many years. I am hoping to get my pieces together and this way to focus on what is needed to be in my next step in this life. Then, when going to the seminar, I may have more specifics for what I need help and get a better direction.
It's even funny that after all this it comes to my realization what I knew all along. That our happiness is not about someone, something or somewhere. It is about us and what we do to ourselves. It is about what we decide and how we decide to go about it.
If we don't step into our own shoes, we can't walk the road.
I will report soon the latest that made come to this conclusion.
Love you with all my heart, and thank you to this board that is really my only support when all the other doors are closed.
Pink
Pink,
I really was impressed w/your posting. You are so right...if we don't step into our shoes, we certainly can't walk the road that is our road in life.
Hi Job, thank you for stopping by. Without knowing you are my guard angel. There were so many nights in my life that I wish I could just hold your hand and feel I was OK.
You are probably smiling now, but the truth is that many, many moments were pure pain in the soul and your words kept me going. Giving me hope for tomorrow and love for myself.
Thanks for being who you are. And you are just "AWESOME".
Pink
Pink,
You are going to be just fine. You are actually right where you need to be at this time, i.e., focusing on yourself, looking deep within and understanding the person that you are. You have to look within and figure things out a bit before you can move forward. But, I do know this...when you have figured things out, the world is going to see an amazing woman who has a lot to offer and I will be there cheering you on.
Thank you for the compliment. I don't consider myself awesome...just someone who has walked the path and is here paying it forward to help others.
I'm so new to this Pink in comparison to you but I feel your tiredness with the whole sitch!
You sound like you have done a lot of soul searching to get you to this place. Have you had any talks with your XH about how you are feeling?
((Pink))
I understand your views on not being healthy because of the constant contact. Like you I see you ex 3 times a week which is a lot when people are no longer together. Like you I couldn't heal (well I'm still healing), so to protect myself I have decided to go dark with ex only contacting him when it's about kids.
To be honest it is doing me good as I find it helps me to heal faster ( well as fast as I want really). The good thing of going dark is that when I had to meet him for a kid's issue I wasn't attracted physically to him and if I had to meet him in town I'd not pay any attention to him.
This is only my experience but maybe going dark will help you to better heal. I admire your strength.
Hi girls, thank you so much for the vote of confidence. It is amazing what this board does to me. I feel so much stronger when I post here.
It's because people like you that this world is not a complete hell. Vivaaaa!!!!
Coly, I see you are knew to the board. I came to realize that it doesn't really matter if we are new or old, what matter is how we use this time to grow ourselves, to improve in areas that we think we can do better, explore our choices to see if we have what is better for us and not just accepting the old because we fear the unknown.
I am very slow in moving forward (in my opinion at least) but every time I move I feel more solid in my believes and my strengths.
Rouky - It is not easy to go dark with my XH. He shows up unannounced, he text with a question. He travels a lot what makes it easier during the week. But as soon as he is in town, it is always a possibility that he will be around.
I tried the whole dark thing, but it does not work well. In order for me to do that, I would need to get paranoid trying to figured it out all his moves, and I won't do that. It is more headache then just let it be.
Besides, XH and I are very good friends. We can sit drinking a cup of tee (or 2,3,4, many cups of tee, Haha) and talk until 2 or 3am. Sometimes is hard to understand even why we are divorced.
Well, here is the next chapter of my soap opera:
My church did a Valentine's Dinner and they made sure to make it a friendship party. Couples and singles were invited.
On Friday 2/10 we got together to decorate the place. When I got there, the first person I saw was XH. I tough he wouldn't be there, but no big deal.
I said hi with a hug and kiss on the chic, he was very nice and had a smile. I got myself busy and he was around talking about his work and all what is going on. I just talk and was as I had been my whole life with him, very supportive and reinforcing that he is very good at what he does.
The night went smooth and we smiled to each other, we talked and had fun decorating the place.
On Saturday I spent literally all day getting ready for the party. Did my hair, nails, make up and put on a very nice long dress (with lace like I love). For the guys that are reading this and thinking I am crazy, just know that I am not, I am a girl and I love it.
When I showed up at the dinner, he was helping the church. He looked at me and I am sure he tough I was gorgeous (his reaction made me feel good). I said hi and of course we hugged and kissed on the chic as usual and he said that I was looking really, really beautiful. I said he was very handsome too and walked away to meet some friends that were waiting for me.
During some time XH was working and I was enjoying my friends. Then he came and put a chair right by my side. He was talking to our friends and then mention that my dress was kind of deep purple and that I used do not like that color. I told him that the wounds that were involved with that color are in the past now and that I was feeling good. He did not say anything, just looked deep inside my eyes.
Oh, by the way. We still talk with our eyes. There are many situations that we just look at each other and we know what we are saying. Amazing as it is, it still happen.
Then he left and came back about three times. At some point, the Pastor said that they had some gifts that we could purchase to give to our Valentine, and again he repeated that it was a friendship gift and it was not meant to be just for couples.
I bought a tiny bear and an artificial rose to my friend and bought a tiny bear, a little box of chocolate and a balloon for XH (he didn't know for who I bought that).
The Pastor said that there would be line for the guys and a line for the girls to give the gifts. Many couples walked to each other and I was at the end of the line. When it was my turn, there was no one in the other side.
I got the microphone and then XH started walking towards me to meet me in the line. The church was one sound - Oooohhhhhhh!!! and then they clap with happiness.
Well, it took me by surprise, but I kept myself in one piece and then said that life has it's mysteries. That last year I had many situations that XH was there to help out, that when I had surgery he took good care after me and that he was very kind and even gave me a XMas gift that was adorable.
And all that just show me that he is my dear and good friend and that I want to value that friendship giving him the gifts. Then I gave it to him. Chan...chan...chan...channnnn
Then XH gets the microphone and says that like everyone know he is not married to Pink here but he is still married in another country. That since last year during a party together, that he said he loves Pink and that he still does. And then turned to me and said: Pink, I love you. I love you with all my heart. You are the best person I know, you are the best woman I know and I love you.
*** You can only image the Hurray movement. Everyone were clapping and even crying. XH gave me a little pink dog and a real flower (just one, the way I like it).
Then we hugged and a kiss on the chic and even a little kiss on the lips. Oh well, you think that now we are walking to reconciliation ah???
The rest of the night we sat together, we talked about things from the night, people, food, what was going on.
Then I messed up... big time I guess... I said to him that we need to talk, talk about us. I said to him that I would like if we can talk sometimes away from the times that he goes to the house to pick up or drop off the kids. That I always feel like he is just using the opportunity but that I would like to feel that it is something important for him and for me as well.
He just said: Yes, I agree.
Then we walked to have a Valentine's picture. Which came out super nice. We left together and I gave him a quick ride to his car that was parked a little far from the church.
We talked about someone from his work that had a bad car accident and then we left. He drove behind me, beside me, like teenagers after first kiss driving in a highway.
Sunday came and he was at the morning service, he was nice, very polite. To the point that is kind of unusual. He runs to open the door for me. He paid my ice cream at the end of the service and I said he didn't need to do that. He paid anyway and I said I would pay him back later. Then he asked if I would go to one of the kid's BDay party. I said I would go home to get a warmer coat and go to the party, he said see you then.
When I got to the party he was there. I said hi and gave him the money from the ice cream. He said I didn't need to pay him back and that he could at least pay for my ice cream. I gave him the money anyway.
He was talking to some guys and I was chatting with some ladies. The whole time we were apart, we just looked at each other sometimes. Towards the end we end up leaving at the same time.
We walked together to my car and I said good buy, have a good trip. Then he was walking away and I "of course" messed up again, this time even bigger mess.
I called him and then asked why he did that. Why he says these things that he loves me, that I am this or that and then give me a cold shoulder like nothing happen.
He said that it is the way he feels, that he has been consistent in what he is saying to me. That he wants to be my real friend, and have a deep friendship with me.
I said that I am his friend, that we talk, he is welcome at my house, that we normally help each other, and that I am already his friend, so why he insist that he wants to be my friend? For sure he is not even close to be my enemy.
He looked at me and said that I still don't understand, that he will continue pray to God that one day I will understand it.
I said that if I don't understand, why he doesn't explain to me. That I feel he is toying with me. He said that he is not and I know him very well to say something like that. That he doesn't want to hurt me more then he already did. That he never changed his position and is still saying the same thing.
I got upset, said to him that I just don't get it. Why we can't sit down and talk about us like two adults. Instead, I need to get all the crumbles that fall on the ground and have some kind of understand that he doesn't love me, that he is just too polite to make suffer.
And then I left without a word to end the conversation. I got in my car, punched the door and left singing my tires. Somehow he caught up to me in a highway and was driving right on my back. He got close and drove by my side right before he needed to get his exit.
As you see. Sometimes I am my worse enemy because I tend to react in a negative way to everything that happen. I need to find the silver line that I will talk to him feeling that he loves me and feel secure that there is nothing wrong with me.
But instead, I always feel that he doesn't love me, that he does not care about me. I think it is time to work on my own issues about rejection and betrayal. I can be a barrier with him and with any other person in my life.
So, what do you think? All advices are welcome.
And by the way, I still don't get the whole "real" friendship or "deep" friendship. Does anybody knows what that means in our context? How do I need to behave if I am his friend (well, I tough I am his friend), but now I am confused.
Thanks all,
Tita
Hey Pink, I don't think you messed it up or were being negative at all. I think you are right in just wanting to know what he means by deep/real friendship. Is he saying that is all he wants or that it can be the start of something more. I think he does love you but maybe not in the way you want him to. IDK it's very confusing!
As you say you already know that you are friends so why does he keep making a big song and dance of it in front of everyone. It must be very annoying. It's like he wants everyone to see what a nice person he is to you.
Maybe I am wrong about it and I can't see what others might see but I do think you need to have a straight talk with him about what he means especially when he says his position hasn't changed.
Coly, your questions are exactly mine too. And I too got annoyed. I am just don't get why he keeps the big show in front of others saying how much he loves me. I don't even see the advantage he gets besides covering up his guilt.
Maybe he is going insane. And by the way, maybe it is one of those MLC side effects.
Like I even tough that maybe he does this and then people think that he is this nice guy and then he gives me a cold shoulder and I react, logically I am the bad guy in front of others.
Who knows? Maybe I need a guy to say what this kind of attitude really means? I know there is more to it, I just don't know what it is.
Tita
Hi Pink, I do feel that your XH loves you - but I also think that he needs space and time. With the Valentine's event, you dressed up and looked lovely I am sure and he was swept away by this and publicly proclaimed love for you. You were swept away and you talked all evening etc....then he cooled....and you became frustrated and got angry....and etc...
It's a wash, rinse, repeat cycle that has happened before with your XH. So, what would break this? Firstly, to not be quite as receptive in the first place. You dressed to look like a million dollars to attract him at that event......however...He was your long term partner, and your marital breakup with the involvement of an OP was a shattering situation. I don't think he gets to 'sweep you off your feet' with a romantic proclamation - I think he needs to do some hard, genuine work to reflect on that and on whether he, you, you both can heal and be together again.
Second, your expectations went through the roof (understandable) when he said what he did - and then were dashed again by him being cool with you. This has happened before and I think the moral is to take everything with a pinch of salt. Actually, you are looking for sustained maturity and a genuine desire to reconcile demonstrated over a significant period.
Third, you pushed, he didn't respond and you lost your temper. So you went on another cycle of the rollercoaster with him and just got out of the cart bruised and nauseous.
Here's the rub Pink - I just don't think he is ready at this point to be the kind of mature and loving partner you want. And the partner who is ready to consistently do what it takes to rebuild something with you. He may feel ready 'in the moment' and the next day not - so things haven't yet settled with him.
The answer I think it not to read so much into these 'moments' and when they happen, try to sit back a little more and manage your own need to 'push.' It is partly your impatience of - I want this to happen now - that adds to your pain.
Finally, I would say - thank you for admiring my strength. But truly, it can be easier not to see your ex and I haven't seen mine for 2.5 years. Haven't spoken to him in almost 2 years or been in any contact with him for 6+ months. It is easier and more settled in lots of ways and I'm not sure how well I would cope if we were in contact you know?
Anyway - hope my ramblings help my lovely xxx
(Ps: a lot of these incidents centre around and are encouraged by church friends who seem to want you to have a romantic reconciliation...is that working for you?? Xx)
Okay, just reflecting some more in the bath this morning!!
Anytime we feel in a spin in this kind of situation, it helps to look inward rather than outward. You are asking us to comment on our take on this situation. But actually my main concern is how you are feeling within yourself at this point.
The thing is I suspect his behaviour may continue along similar lines for the time being. I think the question to ask yourself is 'from what place is me reaction coming?' Is it coming from your highest self aware place or from a place of 'little girl' hurt - we all have both within us.
I say this because for a while (with NG) I felt I depended on our contact to 'get me through this' and there was also a feeling of 'please love me!' I'm now seeing that I was responding from hurt and fearful places. Actually, when I look at things now I see that he may now be in a place to come forward positively, maturely and confidently. And if he isn't in that place, I wouldn't really choose to begin a relationship with him.
With your XH - I don't think he is in that place either. Because he isn't behaving consistently. He is dashing forward and then drawing back. And the thing is, if he isn't in the right place and you entered back in to a R with him, there would likely be an unraveling and further pain down the line. Because, you are going to have to deal with forgiveness, resentment, your own negative feelings and perhaps him spiralling and panicking somewhat too.
So, I'm thinking back to the advice from the wise Wonka. Perhaps it is time to sit on the couch with yourself - and that little girl too - and ask yourself from where is this reaction coming. Because you may not be able to change what he chooses to do, but you can certainly choose how you respond.
What I have come to realise is it doesn't really matter whether I am in a relationship or not. It doesn't matter whether XH turns or not - or whether NG chooses to come forward or not. What really matters is how I am feeling within myself. How happily and peacefully I can live in whatever situation I find myself. Whether I can count my blessings and be grateful and whether I can deal gracefully and lovingly with life as it unfolds.
I do encourage you to take a really long term perspective here and I hope these two posts are helpful to you. Also, I would say, please don't feel frustrated with yourself. Be kind and loving to you and accept that you are travelling some difficult terrain. Big hugs to you my friend...(((((( Pink ))))
Xxx
Who knows? Maybe I need a guy to say what this kind of attitude really means? I know there is more to it, I just don't know what it is.
Tita
Hi Pink, I follow along and saw this. I just thought I'd stop by to say that as a guy I can say I don't get it. I think it is more of a MLC issue dealing with guilt, fear, and/or confusion.
It looks like you've got some really good advice. Take care!
Thanks Sotto and Kyh for your kind words.
Sotto you are right. I think I am the one enabling my XH behavior. It's kind of complicating when I decide to see it from what I use to know who he was.
I feel that he loves me, he does things to show that to me and yet he keeps himself on the "friendship zone". And now I understand that if I play along these sidelines, I will always get hurt.
I don't know what is happening to me right now, but I feel more strength to cut off his BS for now. Somehow that whole Valentines declarations with innocent words, intentions that were not so innocent, double message with gifts that he knew I would love, and yet a distance on the friendship message, it all made me upset. Not mad, but hurt and upset what for me is not the same. When I am mad, it goes away very fast. But when I am hurt and upset it tend to stick to me.
This is a man that knows I love him and would like to work in a R that is different then before. But he keeps doing this games again and again.
Well, as for DB rules, we can control ourselves and we can't control what they do or say. So I think I need to guard my heart for all those occasions when he comes like an angel and do things that shows his love to me but have a bit of a second choice of being good friends.
Right now, I need to look into my own life and project where I want to be in a year, two, five and ten years from now. I am not young and there are some things I need to think about for myself, really independent if I am with him, alone or with anybody else.
It's not easy. I need to count till ten many times,bit my tongue and don't say what I am thinking. I need to be a friend, what is really challenging for me since itfeels awkward. But that is what I need to do and it is not only to bring him back but do have a decent life myself.
I hope I don't fall for his provocations anymore. I really do. This man knows me well and he knows how to trigger my behaviors, but I have been changing too and maybe I can be a little better next time.
One thing that is sinking in these last few months is that I am single, that he isn't my husband anymore. It's weird to say, but only lately that I am feeling like this.
I just wrote to skm other day and I too felt much the same way. That many things were unfair. And as a matter of fact, they are for many of us that are in here. We sure did lots of wrongs, but we were there to endure the difficult time and stick to our commitment. So, it is unfair.
The point is that if I stay sitting on one place feeling sorry for myself because it was unfair, I won't live my time today e tomorrow. Life is not only a R, it has a lot more to it and personally I need to use this time to focus on me as many other Pinks then just a wife, a partner.
If your read my words now, it seems that I got it now. Well, it is still painful to look at the situation as a whole. I still cry because the "what if" happen often. I have frequent contact with my XH and he is nicer then ever to me. These "what ifs" are very constant.
But I am in this journey since jul/14 and some feelings start being just feelings, not a way of life. I am not sure what direction my heart will take from here. I still love him, but I am not sure what feelings I have for him. For example, I use to want to be physically attached to him, and now I do not have that drive as much.
I used to look at other man and really feel disgusted just thinking to be close to him, now I look at other man and I see some qualities, pay attention in what they are saying, and thinking that there are good people out there (I am very aware there are bad people too).
The whole thing is that I started seeing people when before I was blind, I started seeing myself when before I was annoyed and scared, feeling guilty.
I still keep in mind many things I learned about MLC. XH has a lot of those characteristics and I do believe that he is still dealing with that. What in some ways shows through his coming forward, getting away stuff.
Well, I will try my best to be just his friend, and I want to avoid him a little more then I did before. Anyway, when he is close I get hurt, and I am tired of being hurt. So, far seems a little better for now. If he wants, he knows where to find me.
Kyh - I think he really wants to develop a good friendship. He loves me yet, but he is afraid of me and my reactions. I am a straight forward person, I question things and I want resolutions. It is something he can't give me now. I tried to understand better where he is coming from with all the latest stuff between us and I think he don't want to let me go just yet, but he is not sure if I am his best choice since we failed once already.
Fear keeps me from being his friend and fear keeps him from getting closer to me. He doesn't want to hurt me anymore and he is not sure if he wants to be with me or not.
Part is what I do against my cause. My bad reactions to anything he does, is a prove that we would be miserable together. I understand now, that is painful it can be I need to detach, let go and just see him as a guy I have some feelings, but I am walking slow to see how it unfolds.
Again, we go back to the principles of DB. Detach, make a life for yourself, be independent, happy, attractive, let go on the old R, marriage as it was is dead, treat him lovingly and with respect, but keep your arms distance as a good neighbor.
It is all there for us. But it takes a long time for us to see all that in our own lives. Some people get this earlier, some R are different and the scenarios vary accordingly, but the essence is there and we are just too emotional to see it.
I hope we can have our family together again, it would be a bonus because it was not so bad and we have three kids. But if doesn't work this way, then we will try to be happy with whatever comes next.
Let's see what happen,
Love from me to all of you,
Tita
Dearest
I thought I would visit your home in MLC.
My own thinking is that you need peace and quiet.
A good long period of NC to get distance, detatch and let go.
My view hasn't changed in a long long time.
V
I agree 100% w/Vanilla. You need some peace and quiet for a bit so that you can "think" and get grounded once again.