Well, it's been a while since I posted, and longer since I had a thread. While so many of you are still struggling with the hurtful and destructive aspects of MLC behaviour I wanted to share some of the lighter moments with you, which shows how crazy they can remain.
My xh left me in 2005 and was a mean one, and for a long time I was a quivering wreck. I got better!
Then in 2013 he started suing me (three years post divorce). Just before Christmas this year (having comprehensively p.o'd his lovely children (all grown up and flourishing)) I got a long meandering and slightly threatening email threatening to re-start the legal action, and trashing my legal advisers. And another on January 2nd. It was sooooooo ludicrous that I laughed out loud, and such an obvious bid for attention.
I amiably replied 'Happy New year' and hoped he was well and happy, but had nothing to say on the legal issues (on my lawyer's advice) And went away for the weekend.
I cam back to this. I kid you not.
Nothing I have written to him could reasonably be interpreted to mean this
In our most recent non-financial/legal exchange(23-27 August 2013 - worth another look!), you made it clear that (roughly) you want me in your bed or out of your life. I think that's deplorable, and I continue to want something in between (for our children's sake as well as for ours). But I respect your feelings and your decision to demand all or nothing at all. I guess if you ever change your mind, you'll get back to me.
I laughed for about ten minutes- the poor old thing wants attention after all this time (he got married last year btw!)
This is the gist of my reply
"you want me in your bed or out of your life. " ???? It certainly wasn't my intention to convey that particular alternative, although it made me laugh out loud when I read it today. As well as rendering me temporarily wordess, which is rare.
I had no idea that your head was in that particular blind alley!
It is true that I only want relationships (by which I mean family and friends as well as lovers) with people who are kind, loving and fun. Otherwise not interested, because I don't have to be.
If you consider my behaviour deplorable you might need to think about getting out more, but I am rather enjoying being thought badly behaved.
It does make a change from him spewing!!
bea! Glad to see you back!!
Thank you for stopping by my thread, and for your kind words
.
The crazy never seems to end, does it?
It's great that you're doing so well!! Adding the lighter moments can be a huge part of survival through this stuff.
((((((Hugs))))))
Hi Bea!
Well, he has completely lost the plot! I guess we need to go back to calling him Bunny Fo Fo! LOL!
I never doubted that the poor soul wanted attention and he's not getting it from you and he's still struggling to get it. Oh, yes, he's a crazy one for sure. The less you interact w/him, the better.
I do hope that you and your family have a much better new year than the last one.
Hi Job, he is certainly crazier - his emails don't bother me these days, but quite how he came to the conclusion that I wanted him back I am not sure . . . . . where did that one come from? I certainly don't waste my time re-reading old emails from him, even if I could find them.
And thank you, we had a great Christmas, and a lovely New Year. Son no 2 is now seriously dating my third son's wife's best friend!! (If you follow me) Keeping it in the family more or less.
The good thing is that although I will always be sad my marriage didn't last, I know that I am truly better off without him in my life
Hi bea!
Wow, "in your bed or out of your life". Seems he has a high opinion of himself that he really thinks after all he's put you and your kids through, not to mention the fact that he's M to someone else, you would have anything at all to do with him let alone sleep with him! And this all started in 2005? He is the one that wanted to end the M and yet 10 years later he is still this angry at YOU?
I wonder what his new W thinks about his obsession with getting attention from you? I can't imagine being M to someone who is that obsessed with their Ex!
Thanks for that post bea! Just shows how crazy these MLCers are and that, in the end, I'd rather be the LBS than to be as crazy as they are!
Hi Matt, yes that is partly why I shared this. I really like my life, even if it isn't the one I wanted and imagined.
Also because we were married to them for so long, we listen to what they say long after we would do if it were anyone else saying and doing this stuff.
I haven't altered a word of that email. The previous one was just as strange, and very rambling.
I don't think he realises his obsession. I didn't realise his obsession - my lawyer told me, my friends told me, and I still didn't get it.
Weird thing is, I am sorry for him - he has made a terrible mess, and still doesn't get it. I have been hurt, angry (and absolutely enraged!), jealous, and very very sad. Now I feel calm, grown up and compassionate. I still think he is an idiot, but he has in the end hurt himself more than anyone else.
Oh my friend, you and I have two of the crazier ones. I love your response...
So glad you had a good holiday. Sorry he has the need to continue to pester you. He is like a freakin mosquito. LOL!
Happy New Year, sweetie. Leave him to his crazy.
Bea,
Thanks for posting. I laughed outloud too:-). Glad you and the boys are doing well! Happy New Year!
Bea,
The more I think about the comment he made to you: "in your bed or out of your life", makes me think he's still thinking of you out there waiting for him. Poor man, time has actually stood still for him and he thinks that you are right where he left you many years ago, i.e., wanting to work things out and have him come home. This just goes to show how we can continue moving forward and they are in a time warp.
Well, all I can say is that when he does wake up, he's in for a very rude awakening because you and your family have moved on and nothing has stayed the same while he's been on the Mother Ship.
Ummmm....it's called "projecting" I believe
Job, my jaw dropped when I read his email. Before I started to laugh . . . . Curiously enough I think he is beginning to realise he has royally screwed up. But I no longer feel any need to defend myself.
As you have said, and it bears repeating - we didn't break them and we can't fix them. When I truly let go of that all sorts of other things fell into place.
A wise person also said there are three things you cannot change - the past, the truth and the other person.
kml I know!!
hilarious isn't it?
Bea,
I hope that the crazy missives you've been receiving soon stop. I hope it doesn't spread like the flu! LOL! My little loon has been very quiet for the last 6 months and I'm thankful for that...but like you, they can crop up at any time.
Who knows...the holidays may have brought out the crazies in them. LOL!
The things we learn dealing with this! Job, thanks for posting the material on the pursuer distancer relationships. My xh came straight back with an invitation for me to pursue him (in their language) He asked me to go back and re-read my emails - directing me to specific paras written in my emails from August 2013 among others.
He is now saying that any relationship we have in now down to me!!
I replied:(and I am hoping that this will send him away). This 'always wanted a relationship with me' is straight out a magicians's hat. This is a man that has gone months and sometimes years without contacting me or his children, and didn't go to his youngest son's wedding.
Do you think it would be helpful for me to revisit what you have said and written at different times during the past few years, even if I were so inclined. It risks becoming a giant game of 'Gotcha' from my perspective, and I don't live like that.
Am I right in thinking, from what you said, that you want and always wanted, some sort of relationship rather than no contact at all. Could you articulate what that might look like, and whether it would be negotiable? . To be clear, by relationship in this context I mean anyone I have in my life, as a friend or acquaintance.
What benefits do you see for the children?
Bea,
I mean this with sincerity:
You're still engaging with XH with this type of email and questions. Best response is...not interested at all.
Sometimes those lost souls can only understand straightforward language and then drop out completely from their radar.
Wonka - I hear you. You may well be right, but I don't feel defensive!
Bea,
He's still in the rabbit hole and still isn't making much sense at all. If you don't want him to contact you w/this kind of crazy making stuff, then I would not respond back to him. He craves your attention and by responding, you are feeding that craving. He will never find his way out of the rabbit hole if you continue to respond to him and feed him the kibbles he craves. The only way that I see him ever getting himself together is when he finally realizes that you are gone, no longer reacting to his behavior, comments, etc. That's why he just may come out of the hole and see the light of day for what it is.
I think I understand why you responded back, but he's not of his right mind and he's not going to "get it" as to what you were trying to tell him. Until he actually is rationale, I wouldn't respond to any texts, emails or phone calls unless they are emergencies. Besides, the man has a wife now who can take care of him, his rabbit hole and yes his emergencies. Time to cut him loose!
Just my two cents.
Bea
Following along - thanks for the update.
So glad I have a vanisher!
Out of sight and out of my mind!
Bea,
He's still in the rabbit hole and still isn't making much sense at all. If you don't want him to contact you w/this kind of crazy making stuff, then I would not respond back to him. He craves your attention and by responding, you are feeding that craving. He will never find his way out of the rabbit hole if you continue to respond to him and feed him the kibbles he craves. The only way that I see him ever getting himself together is when he finally realizes that you are gone, no longer reacting to his behavior, comments, etc. That's why he just may come out of the hole and see the light of day for what it is.
I think I understand why you responded back, but he's not of his right mind and he's not going to "get it" as to what you were trying to tell him. Until he actually is rationale, I wouldn't respond to any texts, emails or phone calls unless they are emergencies. Besides, the man has a wife now who can take care of him, his rabbit hole and yes his emergencies. Time to cut him loose!
Just my two cents.
Make that four cents (x 2).
Starsky
Job, thanks for your input. I have no illusions that he is still in the rabbit hole. I was in two minds to ignore him (which has been my more usual strategy unless I reasonably felt that not doing so would prejudice my legal case).
But ignoring him wasn't really working, in that he would continue to email phone etc. I had his email blocked for a long time. And the attention seeking behaviour was becoming more extreme, and costly for me to deal with.
I unblocked my email partly it because in November my BIL died, and I sent my xh condolences (this was his sister's husband, and not his own brother) A dear dear man, and I am also very fond of my nephew, who is close to my kids.
So I sent a brief condolence note, and received no response, but unblocked my email in case he did respond to something that it was normal to make contact for, and also because I now feel in such a good place that I can now deal with craziness.
So I get these strange emails over Christmas - they are crazier but less vitriolic than in the past.
What I have realised in these last exchanges that something has changed - in me. I can deal with this stuff. It doesn't bother me, and in fact following my last email, he has stopped contact.
To his claim of wanting a relationship with me, I asked him what this would like. I didn't react, I responded, appearing to take it seriously. From what I have read on the some of the latest thoughts on dealing with narcissistic behaviour (not sure I am allowed to cite the book) this is now considered a highly effective way to deal with narcissists.
Anyway, thanks for your response, I always appreciate your wisdom, and you may well be right, but I though I would try something new, rather than just walking away, I returned the ball using different strokes and put it in his court.
I can always return to my previous strategy, but it hasn't worked and it hasn't protected me. He has his fix, at no cost to me.
Sound like the sort of book I need, mine appears to be writing r talks via laywer.
He wants me to argue the validity of the whole r! He talks of mostly being separated with small patches of r! What the hell, he knows I can prove most of that un true.
If he makes me go down this path and he is doing just that he will ended up the very very very sore looser. Fb is a great prover of stuff, given you can post stuff and it remains on record forever.
Under some circumstances FB entries can be removed or obscured from access by the originator, make sure you screen dump anything you may want later
Bea,
I am very sorry about your BIL. It's always difficult to know which way to go when something like this happens and I think you did the right thing in sending condolences along to your xh.
It will be interesting to see if your xh responds to your latest missive and what his answers will be. Yes, he may have ceased contact for now...but he'll be back around again. He really is a very lost soul and needs those "kibbles". It's too bad he can't let you go.
I'm glad you are stronger and in a better place. There for a while, he was driving you nuts w/allegations and threatening to take you to court. I still don't rule that scenario out, especially if he's angry about something in the future.
Bea, please take care of yourself. I do worry about you because your xh is right up there w/some of the other irrational ones.
I hope you have some fun plans for the weekend.
Job, your capacity for compassion and concern really moves me almost to tears. You are such a wise, good and kind soul.
I am planning to spend some time buying new walking boots, and also planning a summer vacation camping. This really is a new direction for me, as I am not normally someone who enjoys roughing it, (although I like house renovation!) but I thought, how many more years do I have on this planet, and how cool it would be camping with friends near the ocean.
I think the legal battle was a bid for attention (which ranks up there with falling downstairs to get attention in sheer stupidity) But really who know?
He was driving me nuts, but in part this was because at that time I had a lot of stuff happening with my family which is now resolved happily. And also I can now see clearly how crazy my xh is, and how desperately lonely he is. He can't let me go yet, and maybe this is actually part of the letting go process for him. What we can't have, we tend to try and hang on to.
Either way I think 2015 will resolve a lot. But I could be wrong
GG The book is about disarming the narcissist if that helps
Bea,
Yeah, it was appropriate and out of common courtesy to send condolences to XH on the passing of BIL.
Either way I think 2015 will resolve a lot. But I could be wrong
We can always hope! Is there any way to disarm and make the narcc disappear from your life? Does the book detail them?
Bea,
What I don't get is that he is M to someone now. Why is he so lonely when he is in a R? What does she think of all this? Especially the law suits and such. What kind of dysfunctional R must they have?
I sure hope you are right about 2015. Sooner or later he needs to just get on with his life and let you do the same. Keep your head down and enjoy the camping by the beach!
Wonka - there are really three strands to this. The first is that I am in a much better place emotionally - quite a lot of stressful family related matters have been resolved, and also the passage of time is helpful.
I can now deal with my xh without freaking out: it also helps that although crazier he is being less nasty.
Finally this excellent book on narcissism does give some pointers to dealing with narcissistic behaviour.
I can always walk away from this situation the moment it starts to stress me out. We had a very long and happy marriage until the MLC monster roared in: I am now happy alone, do not expect him to change, but I am truly sorry for the mess he has made of his life.
Do I expect him to come out of it? No I don't, but i would like my life not to be torpedoed by his threats to do this, that or the other. He has really done most of the mean things that a person can do to another, short of physical abuse, and apart from a short period I never really worried about that (and it was probably unfounded)
The thing that has changed is that I am no longer afraid, and that is such a very good feeling. I didn't know how scared I was. I think it was the trauma, but now I am not afraid, I have a lightness of heart that is good to get back.
Matt - I wonder occasionally about this new marriage. Being positive it could be that he is attempting to tidy up his life. I hope so.
On a lighter note my xh sent me a link to an article on successful co-parenting. Quite a good article if your children were under about 8 years of age!! And interestingly there was a lot of what he would have normally called psychobabble in the article.
There is some much more appropriate material aimed at those with grown up children, but I thought it was interesting that he thought there could be a way of relating better to his children using outside help.
Nice to hear that you are looking to try something new and get into hiking and camping. As much as I have have increased my hobbies since the bomb there are always more fun things to do and experience in this amazing world.
Just saw the movie Wild and although I read the book a few years ago I was really moved by the movie too.
It is very demoralizing being endless vilified by someone and I totally get your new mind frame. Not being afraid and replying when you feel like replying. I personally can only ignore ignore and ignore for so long before the outrageous and often humorous comments need reply.
After 4 weeks now of xh emailing me about our children (and generally blaming me for the reason he doesn't have a relationship, but more of a generalised moan than real spew), out of the blue I get this.
I've lost my copy [of friend's fruitcake recipe]. Do you have one handy that you could send my way?
This 'normality' is so off the wall I am almost speechless. Also he never bakes . . . . .
This is longest period of contact I have had with him since he finally left for good in early 2007.
This 'normality' is so off the wall I am almost speechless. Also he never bakes . . . . .
This is longest period of contact I have had with him since he finally left for good in early 2007.
Well after 8 years maybe you are seeing a touch and go.
Isn't anyone going to mention the fact it's a fruitcake recipe...or that "he never bakes"...????
Ohhhhhhhhh, theeeee IRONY!
Thanks heather!!
Oh and I got another email asking me to own up to all my faults
including the following gems
until our sons have a less one-sided, more truthful view of past events, so they can let go of the narrative that makes me the villain.
You have not yet mentioned any of yours.[faults]
I replied very sweetly. And briefly. I asked for a list of my faults, and a form of words that would cover what he calls 'the past events' And left it at that.
He is playing the victim big time!!
bea, that is so weird, random, and out of left-field.
I now feel in such a good place that I can now deal with craziness.
Holy crumbs Beatrice, you sound GOOD! Your ex not so much LOL. I shall be waiting impatiently to read Fo Fo's list of your faults. And yikes, does he REALLY want you to tell your boys the truth about all of the crap that he put you through?
My ex recently sent me a similar email. He has, alas, returned from Moscow (apparently Russia has "changed" and he was not happy there, which I suspect is code for the Russian Tramp threw him out when she learned he was not about to share his money with her). When I would not let him come home, he said that he could not believe I have changed so much in the past five months. I wrote back, reasonably I thought, that I changed a lot, but it started five years at bomb drop in Dec 2009, but I REALLY changed in Dec 2013 when I gave him an ultimatum to choose the Russian or me, and he chose her. He wrote back that my email was erroneous and confusing. I listed two dates that are etched in stone in my memory. No errors OR confusion there LOL
Wow, Linda, you really need to update your thread!!!!
Bea,
I about died laughing that he wants the fruit cake recipe. Is he getting a jump on having the new wifey whip one up and store it for 11 months? I can't see that happening. I suspect it's something he was missing from his past holidays w/you and he thought he'd ask for it. I seriously doubt he or the wifey will be doing any baking of that sort.
As for him (again) bringing up old issues, he needs to go cry himself a river and leave you alone. He doesn't get it...you are divorced and you do not need to be tarred and feathered each and every time he posts to you. Sounds to me like Bunny Foo Foo is not a happy camper.
He's forgotten that your sons are grown and if he wants a relationship w/them, that on him to try to rebuild the bridge he destroyed years ago.
He's using any and every excuse to keep the communication going. Next, he'll come back and want something from your house.
RL, Your xh is completely off the wall too. He's doesn't get it either...you are divorced and under no obligation to provide him a room in your home. The Holiday Inn Express is right down the road. LOL!
I'm thankful mine has been quiet, but I suspect he's in the process of relocating. It's been peaceful and I hope it stays that way.
Bea, quit trying to take away my "Craziest MLCer" award. LOL!
Your xh is not flying backwards...he has flown straight into the freakin wall.
He's jumping up and down trying to get your attention and is getting exasperated that you arent reacting the way he expects you to.
Too bad. So sad. You are a good sport asking for your faults. I sure wouldnt. To heck with that...it will just be more cray cray.
I asked for a list of my faults, and a form of words that would cover what he calls 'the past events'
I love this! Can’t wait for the list and the words.
And “he never bakes” comment… I was thinking the same thoughts as Heather, about the irony.
I think Linda is entering the competition for the "Craziest MLCer" award. Linda, I can’t wait for the updates on your thread about how Russia has “changed”… And he only was there for five months? 
Omg, I'm laughing so hard the dogs are questioning my sanity.
Some of this is so true, the fruit cake, could he not think of a more appriate cake or what?
Is that with or without added nuts!
Mine had out signage and witches hats blocking his drive way, my hysterical laughing mind ready guess is ow is arriving with all her furniture..... And moving in.
Mmmm he wonders why I need a L! He's a space cadet.
Bea, don't talk to that crazy fool anymore, he's an attention seeking idiot.
BH - it is proving incredibly therapeutic. I spent so much time being worried, upset, feeling abandoned, that having this nonsense from is just re-calibrating my 'normal' meter, if that makes sense.
I took him far too seriously for far too long. My mistake.
RL
He wrote back that my email was erroneous and confusing. I listed two dates that are etched in stone in my memory. No errors OR confusion there LOL
They continue to stick to the script guidelines: what does he mean 'erroneous and confusing'? The only person confused person is him.
They must think we are really really stupid, if they think at all, which I doubt!
URworthy - I am interested to see what he comes up with, and how long the list is! He writes as if he has a hotline to the truth and reconciliation council, and has praised himself for his patience and magnanimity towards his children.
I suspect it is the need for attention, as Job has said, and also the need to think well of himself.
I think he is also getting more outrageous in his claims because I am staying totally calm. He has lost his 'power' over me - the power to upset, annony, destabilize and harass.
PS RL - my xh does not consider he has put me through anything. The current story is that our marriage wasn't working and that he left and then I made a big fuss, and encouraged the boys to take sides, and made our friends take sides.
He is the victim in all of this: this is his truth, sadly.
Bea, I was wondering if my ex is coming up with a similar story to yours - that our marriage was not working, he went to Moscow to visit a friend, but I changed while he was gone, and refused to let him come home for some nefarious reason LOL. Is being the victim the next chapter in the MLC manual?
They will play the victim card until they either wake up or drop dead. Eventually everyone gets tired of the flea playing the violin and realize he's playing the "poor me" card over and over.
The best thing is to not get into discussions when they are like this because it will go on and on and they will not look in the mirror and see the mess they have made of their lives, and yes, they want your attention be it positive on negative. They will make any and every excuse to keep the banter going. If allowed to continue such banter, they are getting their ego kibbles because they know we are finally paying them some attention by responding even if we don't care what we have to say to them or the tone we use.
Seriously. Does being the victim play into any of the stages? It almost seems like a stage unto itself.
Oh yes forever the victim of circumstance!
Really they have no choices at all, none zero zip! Laughs giggles and ponders where these nig nongs think they will end up.
I agree that they feel they have no choices. My W and I would talk about how we were going to do things and when she did the exact opposite, she would actually say "I can't help that I changed my mind", loudly and in a whiny tone. She can't help that she changed her mind about our M, about going to a lawyer, about waiting to file, you name it. My W really truly believes that she has no choice but to do whatever she "feels" at any given moment. They are the most helpless victims. If not of us then of their "feelings". MLC is about weakness, it's about fear and it's about a lack of control. They really think we "made" them do the awful things that they do. If it wasn't us then they would have to admit it was their own weakness' and they can't face up to those!
I would say that the victim card is an integral part of MLC: it is fine for them to do as they wish (or were 'driven to do' in their terms) but if others respond by not liking it, they have no right to their feelings.
The MLC is in a bubble, and they rearrange history to suit themselves.
It is frustrating, but as Job says, until they take a look in the mirror they will not change. None of what happens is down to them, and their choices. It is all the fault of how others responded to those choices.
So RL your xh will rewrite the past to make himself the good guy - note the 'you have changed'. They did nothing. Oh, and no-one else is 'allowed' to point out any contradictions in their changing stories. If we do we are twisting their words.
I have fully owned my share in anything that went wrong in the marriage, and offered on numerous occasions to sit down with a third party and discuss it, but nothing but him being totally right and everyone else who disagrees with anything being totally wrong will satisfy him. It is infantile beyond belief.
Gg, I am not sure that they do think at all. Everything is driven by emotion dressed up as reason. They are toddlers with an enhanced argumentative streak. but about as much rationality.
Toddlers are not noted for their forward planning, but they do tend to grow up unlike the MLCers.
Seriously. Does being the victim play into any of the stages? It almost seems like a stage unto itself.
Has anyone here heard of the victims triangle. LBS are also on the triangle as well. We chase our Tails around and around the triangle. Never really getting off. It is quite interesting.
My nig Nong, thinks he does think. He's the only one who gets it right 100% of the time.
Worlds biggest victim. Is my h!
They do make me smile now, in a weird way.
I looked up the victim triangle. Very interesting.
Interesting on the victim triangle - my xh is trying to play it with no takers. And he is getting angrier and angrier.
When I suggested solution focus there was an attempt to pull it to Victim/Persecutor which he regards as much more fun. I think the point is that the Victim triangle participant is more interested in the drama and the avoidance of relationship than they are in moving forward with anything, and essentially acting like a grown up.
Once you see the game you realise it is everywhere!
OK this is the latest from Planet Zog: I went away for a few days and came back to a rather convoluted email ending with this. I kid you not
Hope you're having a nice break this weekend. Here (xxxx) there is a bit of snow, but also a lot of sun. You should come down and enjoy it.
He is emotionally all over the place. Does he seriously want me to go and stay with him and his new wife????? I am still laughing.
OMG! He is just too funny. On the other hand, he's sly like a fox. He has nothing to really communicate w/you about, so he's posting about the snow. Now, he knows you won't go down there, but he's hoping you'll respond back to his note and will keep the banter going back and forth. He knows exactly what he's doing.
I do not get it - one minute spew, the next social invitations!!
But yes, he is sly and manipulative.
Potential response:
"Great! Tell your wife to make up the guest bed, I'll be there Friday night at 9, American Airlines flight 1017" LOL
Kml love it - thing is, unless they have embarked on a big building plan this is my xh's chalet in the mountains with no real spare room . . . . now this is not a circumstance in which I fancy a threesome!!
OMG! I love kml's comments. Maybe that is what he's looking for...a threesome!
I think I'd have to sit on that message for quite some time and see if he comes back w/another one. He is really something else.
Bea,
Let's review XH's loopy actions, shall we?
-claims you cheated him out of .02 cents in the divorce
-claims that you alienated the ADULT children from him
-claims that you are the "bad" guy for not wanting to communicate with him
-and thinks he can draw you down to his place with his new wife
A real catch! True dat.
Yes Wonka - these are just some of the edited highlights from the last few months.
His behaviour is a little unusual!
Oh yes and he still wants to sue me, but apart from that, I can't think of
any reason offhand not to fly/drive 800+ miles to see him in his mountain fastness. (It is MILES from a convenient airport/train station and pretty far from what I call civilisation. I think they have the wheel . . . . ) And his wife doesn't really speak English, which is both of our native tongue. What is it with these guys that they hook up with these people they can't really even speak to? I can speak her language, but wouldn't let on for the world - how childish is that