I've been reading the forums for awhile, and this is my first post. Sorry this got really long, but I didn't know what to cut out. The more you know, maybe the more you can help.
So here I am where I never thought I would be. I thought we had a wonderful relationship. Everyone did. Most people still do. I can’t remember the amount of times people would come up to us and tell us how they wish that they had the relationship with their spouse that we did. We could read each other’s minds, we liked the same things, and we enjoyed spending time together. We were a regular standup act, with the other one being able to follow right where the first one left off. But now my husband is now in full blown midlife crisis and I’m really not sure what stage he is even in.
Last February my husband turned 35. He didn’t want it to be recognized. I started noticing changes in him. He was more distant, less involved. I didn’t like how he seemed to ignore me when we were out in groups, like he wanted nothing to do with me. He would show other people more attention than me. He loves the attention. Even now he focuses on and lets me know how much other people just love being around him and his personality. Around the house he would be absorbed in TV or his phone or listening to his ipod. The once attentive father to our three children was becoming more and more absorbed in himself and more and more selfish.
I confronted him last June about what was wrong, and he admitted he was depressed. He had been thinking about a lot of things, mainly how he wasn’t good enough for me. At this point I was tired with the amount of responsibility that was put on me. I am a full time executive, I have three children under eight and we had decided to have a fourth. I took care of everything around the house and hired cleaning ladies and yard workers to take care of the rest, so we could have more time together. I planned date nights and got babysitters for us to go out together once a week and with friends another night during the week. I took care of all the finances. I was feeling overwhelmed trying to deal with childcare and work responsibilities. I was feeling that I wanted him to just feel what that was like. I was not as sympathetic as I should have been, but I was still concerned. I felt like suck it up and get it done. That’s what we have to do in life.
He has a history of depression in his family, and so I told him he should see a therapist, but to just go in with eyes wide open, as therapy and anti-depressants had caused his father to turn into a very self-absorbed person who could justify doing anything he wanted at the expensive of everyone else. Every one of my husband’s siblings has issues with their father. He later would say that I told him I didn’t want him going to therapy at all.
July we had a great family vacation and we were trying to get pregnant. We always wanted four kids and this was the timeline he had set. We wanted to make sure we were done by the time I was 35. At this time he told me that he was concerned about my health. I thought it was really sweet of him. He made it all seem like it was about me. I told him that I know I would be okay and that I just felt that we weren’t done. We had some really good conversations and he understood why I wanted another. He agreed and I felt he was on board. He had always wanted four and never had said stopping at three before this. I got pregnant during that trip.
Around the first part of August I let him know I was pregnant. He had barely any reaction to it, something along the lines of well that was quick. He has never asked me how I am doing or feeling. Two weeks later he dropped the bomb that he was leaving. He left that day. He was living in his car and sometimes a hotel room. He would just drive around for hours. I can’t remember how long he was gone for at that time, I think a few days before the guilt of the kids, and that I was being completely hysterical brought him back. I was so angry at him. I can’t believe how he could just run away from his responsibilities and from me when I’ve always been there for him.
We were going to work on things, go to a counselor. I still thought at this time it was just depression. He’s 35, why would it be a midlife crisis? I never knew anything about MLC at that point anyway.
The first counselor we went to told us that it’s okay to separate. And it would be hard at first if we divorced, but we would be fine. And kids are resilient and the kids would be fine. He said that men who leave will usually always have regrets. I think that counselor is the cause for a lot of where we are now. We began that session with my husband in tears for putting us in this situation, to leaving with him feeling validated. After two sessions I refused to go to him again and sought someone who was more qualified.
We separated again in September for a little over a week, over an argument where he said I was never supportive of him in his job. This is something he would later take back and acknowledge how supportive I was, that I persuaded him to go for a new position, that I did his resume, that I did mock interviews with him and encouraged him. He was looking for any way out at that point. Any argument so he could leave again. Or maybe he was just so delusional at that point he believed it.
We agreed to try another counselor. The next counselor was better. Focusing on communication and marriage skills, things where we could improve. Giving data on marriages and divorce and how men and women think differently and that the problems we have now would be problems in future relationships, and why not work on those now with 14 years of history and children? I was willing to do anything and had already been making a lot of changes. I felt like this was all my fault, he was blaming me for everything. Even though I had my issues with him, it was never anything to divorce over. Just normal things everyone has. I thought his issues with me were minor and fixable too, but he didn’t feel that way. Not only had he been unhappy since last year, but longer than that. He was bringing up things from the beginning of our marriage as if nothing was ever good. My husband said though that he doesn’t want to work on anything. That he is done. He was just going through the motions of going to make me feel better.
There wasn’t much that could be done at that point. I tried to give him space, but it was so hard for me to understand how he could throw everything away. He wanted me to find someone else. I couldn’t understand how he could stand the thought of another man being viewed like a father by his children.
The first part of October he was back in the house and preparing for a trip. He was also having family come visit. He took me to dinner the night before he left and told me he knows he needs to work on things, that he wants to work on things. I felt very encouraged. When he came back from the trip he acted like he was really trying. I would tell him things I needed from him, like to wear his wedding ring, to hear that he loves me. He would, but said it was hard for him to do those things.
A close family friend of ours died, and he took it really hard. It had been several years since we had seen them, and it was really hard for my husband to see how much someone there had aged. When we got back, he said he needed to leave and was gone for three hours.
Things seemed to be getting better, slowly. His family was in town and we did a lot of things together and seemed like things were getting back on track. But I had some really weird feelings. I felt like something was not right. I needed to confirm things in my own mind so that I could put it to rest. I decided to put a recorder in his car so that I could hear if he was talking to someone else about us, so I could know what he really felt. Something just wasn’t right.
I tried to get ahold of him that day to go to lunch, but he would answer. I decided to go grab something at a drive through and the weirdest thing, I pulled in right behind him and there was a woman with him in the car. I didn’t think anything of it. He has always had a lot of female friends at work and usually goes to lunch in groups. I was just annoyed he hadn't gone to lunch with me. But that night I listened to the most sickening thing I had ever heard in my life. I had to stop the tape to vomit. There it was. She was the OW.
I confronted him about her, asking questions. He denied anything was going on and told me he was leaving because I couldn’t trust him and this would always be between us. It was something he had said on the tape. He was always planning on blaming me for him leaving. I never told him how I knew until later. He denied it for a day and then finally admitted that they had been going to lunch together for a few months, but the most he had done with her is kiss. He had confided in her about us, and they kissed, and it was a mistake. He wasn’t expecting it to feel electric. I know there are fantasy feelings there, the feelings of new love. He said he would break it off completely and not talk to her. And he did.
He moved out that next day after I confronted him and has been gone ever since, which was the end of October. He was planning to leave anyway, but kept it together since family was visiting. I have not asked him to come home. He has been gone a month and a half.
He has very little contact with the kids. I let him see them and take them when he asks or I’ve asked him to when I have plans, and this is usually a few hours, twice a week. He doesn’t do much with his life. He is absorbed in work and goes back to the place he is renting and watches TV and listens to music.
Once he left, I started researching midlife crisis. I read 14 signs that a midlife crisis is destroying your marriage, and every single one applies. The signs all fit. He doesn’t care about me or the kids. He won’t talk to anyone. He has talked to me some, but I’m not pressuring him.
He has said since he left that he needs to go to a therapist, but he has yet to make an appointment. He blames me for everything. He gets angry at me and others for the most minor things. Not very many people know we are separated and I know the thought of people finding out about his infidelity, that I’m pregnant, and that we are separated terrifies him.
So I’ve been focusing on myself. He says I’m more beautiful now than I was when I married him. He feels that I’m happier now without him, and he has made the right decision, that I would be better with someone else. I’m heartbroken, I’m stressed out, but focusing on myself, praying, and reading more about MLC has really helped, but I still have a hard time. I wake up at night and I can’t stop thinking about it. I know this isn’t my fault. I know there are things I could have done better and if I had given him space in the beginning and not taken it so personal and been defensive, maybe it wouldn’t be so bad now.
I was feeling better because I thought he was in the withdrawal stage. I never made contact with him, but he always had some reason to contact me every day. Then there were days with no contact. When he started to interpret my happiness as validation, I got scared that I was pushing him away. He told me recently that he contact the OW after 30 days, that it was just too hard to avoid her at work, but that he wasn’t doing anything with her and he wasn’t being alone with her and he wasn’t talking to her about anything. That still really hurt. I’m not threatened by her. I know he is using her, but I’m still so hurt by the betrayal. I know though at his company Christmas party he spent some of the time hanging out with her in a group setting. That was a huge setback to me. It was too painful and I know I need to further detach.
I don’t want to lose him, but I feel like it doesn’t matter what I do, everything is wrong and he is still so far gone in his head. I worry about him. I care about him. I want to just love him and it’s hard knowing I can’t do anything to make it better or make him get through this faster.
I don’t want to see my kids hurting so badly. My oldest son has a hard time even talking to my husband now. I am on a daily rollercoaster. I’ve been in therapy, but I feel like at this point I know more than the therapist does on the subject.
It’s hard to know what stage he is really in at this point. It’s hard to be patient, but I’m trying. I’m giving him space. I don’t call him, and when I do talk to him, it’s like we are just friends. I’ve had one breakdown with him, but that lead to a positive discussions where he got some things off of his chest and told me later it was really good to be able to talk about that. I just acknowledge what he says and apologize for things if I should, but I don’t give him my side of the story and just leave it at that. He wants to talk to me about stuff at work and going on in his life, but he doesn’t ask about me. He acts like he is invading my privacy by asking.
He is very much a teenager right now, wanting his space, only thinking of himself, at least what he is showing. He says he cares about the kids and misses them terribly, but he doesn’t ask about them or how they are doing. He doesn’t ask about me or the pregnancy either. He doesn’t call them to say goodnight. He doesn’t talk to them about anything serious or acts like a dad. More like a fun uncle that takes them to movies.
He has become very isolated. If any of his friends, including friends who know what is going on, ask him how he is doing, he says he is great. He always puts on a good face like he is happy, but I know a lot of times his is on the brink of tears. I know there are issues in his past. I know he has issues from childhood and being a teenager he is still carrying.
I don't know if encouraging him to go to therapy would be a good thing or bring further validation when a therapist is only hearing one side of things.
Welcome to the boards. Sorry that you find yourself here. You won't find a better or committed group of individuals to try and get your M back on track.
Your H is definitely in MLC. In fact, I would say almost verbatim, he acted the same way my W had. So you're not alone.
"He feels that I’m happier now without him, and he has made the right decision, that I would be better with someone else."
Next time he says something like that to you, this is what you need to do. Look at him dead in the eye and tell him that you were always beautiful and that he has no right to decide how much happier you are now any more than you can tell him how "happy" he is. Tell him that while you don't agree with the A, you understand his need to do what he feels he needs to do.
Validate his thoughts and feelings but don't justify the actions. Start pulling away and don't respond back to him when he does contact you or wait awhile. Let him start wondering about you.
Right now you continue to concentrate on yourself and get yourself strong.
You'll find himself being happy and sure of himself one minute and then insecure the next. It will be a literal roller coaster of emotions. YOU have a choice to not get on that roller coaster.
It will be hard as heck but you can do it.
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This is my
ultra brand new and improved list of link
I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956The link for the resources:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1539436Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Doormat tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Why they run:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=67406&page=1http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...6668#Post526668Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=714209Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
The stages of MLC as rewritten by HB from Jim Conway are a template
which can only be laid over an MLCer's experience retrospectively.
It's impossible to see the pattern until it has finished being laid or the crisis is complete.(nickel Cyrena).
So do not be too concerned where your MLC'er is in this process.
(Although my general guess is that they are in REPLAY)
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he says and 50% of what he does.
I would not ask him anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.Your H has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power. - Sir Francis Bacon
Hopper,
so very sorry to hear of your situation. I, as so many others on this board, really understand and feel your pain too. You are not alone - come here often to share and vent.
I would suggest maybe less concern with what "stage" your H is in. As I understand MLC, the stages are not linear and just because there are signs of "Withdrawal" today, that doesn't mean "Acceptance" will follow on schedule. Understand too this often takes YEARS to get through. All of this bad news is one reason why the LBS is advised to
DETACH DETACH DETACH.
The MLC road is loooong, full of hairpin turns, AND not yours to travel.
Regarding the OW, it is my personal experience that they will lie to the bitter end on that matter. My H says "I lie because I don't want to hurt you." ("If you didn't want to hurt me you wouldn't HAVE OW!" This is logic the MLC cannot compute.) Just be careful if things get intimate with your H - take care of yourself.
Speaking of lies, learn and absorb
Believe none of what they say and half of what they do.
Regarding H's therapy.... maybe. But HE needs to be the one to bring it up. And it may take a few "false" starts before he can actually follow through.
Hang in there Hopper. Take care of yourself and your kids. Really work on detaching because its the best thing for you, your H and your M. Seems counterintuitive, I know.
Hi mizjjd-
Regarding the OW, it is my personal experience that they will lie to the bitter end on that matter. My H says "I lie because I don't want to hurt you." ("If you didn't want to hurt me you wouldn't HAVE OW!" This is logic the MLC cannot compute.)
omg - my h exactly. what fools - my h actually said once he was "helping her thru her divorce " (the dope- and causing his own. Then - he "cares a great deal about me" - nice - how would he treat me if he hated me??? one wonders. he does not know what "cares" means i think. oh well huh? anyway- feel your pain & am there with you.
so, have you been able to detach? my h has ea with someone we both knew & worked with 25 yrs ago or so. i'm more calm about my entire sitch than 1.5 yr ago when found out. - i'm by no means "detached" as i'd like. i resent like mad the "waste" of perfectly good ole me sitting here- and she gets his , what? affection- attention, etc. that it's HER he looks forward to chatting with on the stupid computer or cell phone - woo hoo - like a teenager w/ the technology- i'm the "old shoe".
it galls me to not really know how the heck long this has been SOMETHING with them. the thought of forever in the background of our whole life (35 yrs) is the killer. working on it all the time- no idea if it's really the kiss of death tho, ultimately. have said out loud to him- if she's the LOve of your life- why the heck aren't you with her? who in their right mind would not grab it and hold on tight????
either he is crazy- or lying about that (to himself ) also0. this lying business is such a downward spiral. it gets to a point where even saying his shoe is too tight makes me think "liar" in my head. nothing is immune after awhile. any magic words you tell yourself or matra that gets you by???
just moving thru the days dbing - for want of a better plan. I can feel your torment - just felt compelled to write and say hello- it is hell isn't it???
good luck- i guess we hang in there til the time is rite for us to - what??? therein the snaggle...i could never have imagined at my age i'd be here doing this- life....
hi- again-
just read your first big post. my age-life is different than yours- my situation is the SAME. IT'S AWful how accurately you describe things that your h is doing- has become - that are mine exactly too.
i can never figure out if i'm glad of this- or overwhelmed by the tragedy that they are going thru something almost cartoonish because it's sooooo "mapped out"and usual.
we had such a nice life together & r - same as you.
somewhere along the line (i used to blame quitting smoking- he became edgy and fight-ie) he just changed. more edgy- more critical- same deal- nothing i could do or change suited him. i am soooo blind- i thought he was going thru some stuff of his own (retirement - sick father- aches & pains (we're about 60 then) - and so on. i was being totally understanding & spportive and TRYING like mad to change to please.
the quit smoking was about ten years ago- he now is rewriting history . he is not a talker- we seldom can discuss this. have had some flare-ups. not productive really- me spilling over- . i'm not weepy & begging him to stay- i get amazed at the selfishness.
so he quit smoking- i tried like mad & asked alot of time how i could help him, etc. , did he have someone else, etc- he just lied and lied (i know now) - i trusted him completely.
about 4 yrs ago- something drastic changed - now i know he had online "fling" going with old flame across country! went to see her a couple times - then found out had/has simultaneous one going online-cellphone w old secretary- closer t home- 4 hrs away- sees her as well. it's all so sickening that now- honestly- most days im disgusted with him and disgusted with me for being here still.
it's hard to let go of 35 yrs. like you- i swear - it was Karma that i found out.
came home to other house early for a funeral- listened to a phone message from one woman ending with "love ya" - so i looked in his computer at other e-mail accounts - and ka bam. love love love (this is a man who doesn't really use the word much or "believe in it!!??) - slatering it arund and talking about their "visit" - i wanted to die!!! left a message of the note i'd read on his desk and left the house.
THEN - amonth later i happened to be holding his cell phone for him- in w/ dr.- i looked in there and there was more love notes to ANOTEHR woman. honestly- i felt like the entire earth would open up and swallow me. in a fog for easily a year - trudging around- nothing giving me pleasure.
1.5 yr later- i am by no means "over it" or cured - but i function and find i can enjoy some stuff i used to- i don't have kids (and am sorry about that totally) - think perhaps i "wasted" my life with him- it was great tho when it was great- sometimes i doubt it- sayng this to you- i know that was real.
where do we go with this insanity? this is not a stupid man- this is surely a deluded man. some days i think he is just crazy and there's a tumor pressing on his brain.
some days i think the same of me- and wonder why i even am here still- financial concerns are something - mostly is't my inability (still- sickening tho it is) to fathom him not being in my life.
ther's alot - it's all junk- i have no idea where i'll end up or if i'll get to hate him or love him or what the heck he will end up doing. i can't do this forever-
looking back- it's been a long long time. i was blindly trusting & in love- he used it against me. no idea-
just throwin in my two cents- there are so many of us out here. i probably would have gone under (whatever that means) without this forum & knowing i was not alone- it was not "me" that CAUSED THIS - tho, that's his position.
he is less critical and awful since i know - i have not minced words about what i think of i=him and his ea, etc. i don't know what is happening to or in his brain0-
to hope or not? to bother or not? i just get thru one day and then another- i am more fortified and less "wounded" so time is helping-
good luck- i'm thinking what you say is soooo what i am and have been experiencing.
IT'S NOT YOU- IT'S NOT ME - will they ever know that? who knows.
hope your day is okay- just feeling a kindred spirit here. your children are a blessing and something to anchor you.
Hopper,
I feel your pain. The beginning of your story could have been my own, with people saying how great my marriage was and how I took care of pretty much everything in the household. My H told me, nearly verbatim, the same things yours did, except mine said, "there's NO WAY you could have been happy all this time!" I don’t know if there’s OW but I have my suspicions about an EA and have had several suspicions about additional OW in the past.
My S5 is hurting over my separation and it kills me. When he says his prayers every night, he asks God to bring his family together again. It brings tears to my eyes nearly every evening. My D2 asks frequently, “Daddy here?” When I tell her no, she says, “I miss Daddy.” Again, it kills me.
It looks like there’s an amazing group of people here to give us the support we need. We are strong women. We CAN do this. We have strength in numbers and each other to lean on when times get really tough. It’s not going to be easy but it will be possible. We will make it by sheer force of will if nothing else. I tell my son every night when I put him to bed, “I will never leave you.” I don’t want him to be afraid that Mommy is going to pack up and leave because Daddy lost his marbles and did just that. Love your babies and know that you were (and still ARE) an amazing wife.
GG
Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. I took your advice of detachment last night. My oldest wanted to call his dad and say goodnight, and I of course let him. It went to voice-mail, but it was the sweetest message. I then got a call from H an hour later. I didn't answer. He left a VM saying sorry he missed it and was in the other room. He then called again, then called the house, then my cell again. Then sent two text messages, wanting to talk about something, then called the cell again. Then later on he sent game requests through the phone. I sent him a quick text this morning to tell him I just got his message and glad he liked the VM. I felt like I had to respond at some point, but as MrBond said, wait awhile.
It's so hard to stay out of contact when there are little kids involved. There always seems to be some reason he needs to contact me. I'm always friendly to him, but nothing more than friends. I have tried to not be the one to set up scheduling. He always asks me permission to do anything with the kids, never demands. He asks if it's okay to do specific things, like take them to a certain movie even. He's not seeing them as much as he could or as much as the kids would want. That's what is so heartbreaking. The kids absolutely adore him and are having such a hard time with this.
I think I've taken care of him for so long, that's part of the problem. He needs to be responsible. Things are being dropped, and I'm at the point if he doesn't do it, oh well. I've asked him once and if we end up paying because of it, oh well. There have never been any consequences because I've always been the responsible one.
It would be really sad if he takes the relationship with the OW to the full level. I'm afraid from all I've read that it's a must happen, and I don't know if I could ever get over it. I know that me finding out about it really took a lot of the excitement away from him. I think he is worried it's something that could wreck havoc on his work life. If the OW got mad at him, she could do a lot of damage. He's only going after someone so below me, because he feels so worthless. I wish he could see the results at the end of the tunnel before it got to that point. It would be the final nail in the coffin that his values are completely null and void. We're both very religious. We were each others first. I have not had any kind of physical contact with him other than a rare hug since he left and I won't either during this. He has had problems with intimacy with me for since he started going through this, wanting to give me everything I needed, but not wanting anything for himself.
Cadet's suggested reading has been really helpful. I actually read The Divorce Remedy back when I thought this was only about depression. I never read the part on MLC, because that just didn't seem to apply. In my mind that was exercising like crazy and buying a new car and turning 50, and no idea that it made them turn into a complete monster that was unrecognizable. Someone mentioned MLC to me after we separated and I read that section and was totally enlighten. It was like reading my own diary.
I keep thinking that there is something that has gone on in his childhood/teen years that he never fully dealt with. He came from a rough background, and I fell in love with him because he rose above that. He was the first in his family to get a degree, and he has an advanced degree too. But both of his parents had very rough, abusive upbringings. My H has repressed so much, so much in our marriage and before, I think there could be demons there that I don't know about, that he may not even realize yet.
Tell him that while you don't agree with the A, you understand his need to do what he feels he needs to do.
Does "A" mean affair?
Thank you again to each of your kindhearted responses. It has really helped me.
Nero,
I agree. The thing keeping me sane and happy during all of this is my children. They are so happy and fun to be around. I think how miserable my H must be without them. I don't know where I would be if I still felt this was all my fault. Being able to have a label for it and reading what others have gone through helps immensely.
Hopper,
yes, A means affair. I found all the abbreviations confusing at first. Here is a post about the abbreviations you may find helpful.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2183063#Post2183063I really feel for you having little ones while this is going on. The first A I found out about (its the 2nd one H admits to, but at this point I figure "who knows how many really?") was 14 years ago when I had 4 kids age 5 and under.
Those were some very dark days - in some ways worse than now.
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. Detach as much as you can - it will allow you to operate from a position of strength.
GG,
I keep thinking, maybe it wouldn't hurt so bad if I hadn't fallen from so high of a place. I thought I had everything--almost like I was mocking God, I thought life was so great.
It's so hard with little ones, that don't understand at all. My nearly 2 yr old asks for Dada every morning and runs to him and won't let go when he sees him. My 8 yr old went into a panic tonight when I left for an hour, even though his dad was there. He screamed, "Mom where are you going?" I had to take him aside after and tell him I will never, ever leave him, that sometimes I have to leave for a few hours but I'll be back. My 5 yr old prayed the other night that Daddy would get off the naughty list, which was actually pretty adorable. They have their moments, but most of the time they are the happiest, most loving children ever. I would be lost without them. It's hard to be depressed when you're surrounded by pure joy. I don't know how my husband can stand being away from them so much.
mizjjd,
I hate the feeling of constant panic--is he with her? What is he doing. I hate her so much. What kind of scum would go with a married man, with kids? On one level I want him to have the relationship with her and realize what a loser she is and have it all blow up in his face. I did a background check on her when I found out, and it's ugly. Two bankruptcies. Multiple judgements and liens. An estranged teenage son that wants nothing to do with her. Winner, winner, chicken dinner. But on the other hand, would I want him after he has had a full blown relationship with someone else? There is no good solution.
Hi Hopper! You sure have come to the right place where you sitch is concerned.
You seem to be doing very well, considering how short this has been going on.
You mentioned that you think he has some childhood/teen issue that he hasn't gotten over yet ... that could be the case. I think my H hasn't dealt with his sexual abuse. He is the type of person who stuffs it all down into a corner somewhere.
No matter ... you can try and empathize, but he still has to deal with whatever's happening with him.
As mizjjd says - hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. Make sure your finances are in order. Take care of yourself.
It's so hard to stay out of contact when there are little kids involved. There always seems to be some reason he needs to contact me. I'm always friendly to him, but nothing more than friends.
Basically let him control the contact, what you did sounds fine for now.
You are doing things now for YOU and your children, not for him.
You need to get on living your life without him in it.
Because right now he is GONE.
I am not saying that you cant have HOPE but definitley NO EXPECTATIONS.
Jim Conway writes that their are four enemies of the MLC'er - Body, Spouse, Job, and God.
As they work their way through this mess they seem to hit them all. They are running away and NOTHING will stop them.
I am glad the links helped out.
Keep working on them a little at a time.
I might also suggest the pursuit and distance one as it looks like your husband is a clinger, or at least for now.
Keep posting.
I read the entire persuer distancer thread. Very helpful. My question is how do you know when the game is over? I don't contact him. If there is something I need to tell him, I just wait for him to contact me.
Last Saturday he told me he talked to the OW at work after 30 days. He said that I had said he needed to stay away from her for 30 days, and I mentioned this during our last therapy session. I said to him, no you never talk to her or have anything to do with again, ever. I would have never said 30 days and then it's fine. I also knew he denied anything was going on with her during therapy. Delusional. He can't remember half of what he does or says anyway.
He promised me he wouldn't talk to her about anything besides chit-chat and no physical contact or spend anytime alone with her. But I get that if he can break marriage covenants with me and God, what does a promise like that matter. He kept saying he didn't want to talk about her anymore. I said, "Neither do I. I thought I would never have to. I thought it was done." He knows that I will never allow the children to be around her. I will move far away if he ever tries.
He's got to be scared of the grief I could cause him in his life. I'm friends with several people he works with, including the OW's boss. I've never threatened anything like that. The only thing I've ever said is she will never be allowed to be around my children. But still I wouldn't be surprised if he is worried about what I could do. As he has said, his job is the greatest thing in his life right now.
About 18 months ago, maybe longer, H was feeling like he was going nowhere in his job. We both thought it was best he looked for something else. 9 months ago, an opportunity came up in a completely different field, which he didn't want to go for, but I really encouraged him. I thought it was just the change he needed. I could tell he just wasn't happy in his current job. It was a tough sale for him. He had no experience in this new position, but excellent management skills. I was all over it for him. I did his resume, and his boss told H he was super impressed by it and it was the best he had ever seen. I did mock interviews with him to get him around the no experience question. And he got it. He did appreciate all the help. He told people he never would have gone for the job, it was me telling him this job was meant for him that did it. And now he absolutely loves it. It makes me wonder how long ago this all started for him (he says he has been unhappy for years) and if MLC was already setting in, and the new job solved one issue, but caused the bigger enemies to then become me, God, and Body.
He now feels like he is a rock-star. That anything he wants just lands in his lap. It's like he doesn't even take credit for the work he put in to rise above his impoverished upbringing. He was just lucky.
On moderation, so sorry about the string of posts from me.
H left for a business trip today. He wanted to stop in and see the kids before he left. That surprised me. He said goodbye to them two nights ago when he had them, and said he would see them when he was back. He even called them tonight to say goodnight, which is a first since he has left. He is missing them.
He told me when he left that one of his roommate had wondered if his wife was okay with him going out of town. He said yes, since it's business, but otherwise I likely wouldn't be. It puzzled me a bit, like he still feels he needs to answer to me in someways.
He also told me that his roommate had said it would be fun, and a change of scenery. He said back to him, "not really. Just a different room, but I'll still be there playing games by myself and crying myself to sleep." I just laughed, but that's saying a lot from him when he is trying to act like he is doing great. No hug goodbye or anything. He hasn't initiated a hug with me since the first week he left.
Another thing people have questioned me about is him renting a room with roommates, instead of getting his own place. I guess I'm weighing the pros and cons of cost and less temptation to bring a woman over vs living with a bunch of divorced guys who could be a negative influence. I think it's a better situation. I don't know any divorced person who doesn't have regrets.
So this morning he sent a message to the kids and a picture. Very specifically to them only, but this is a change where he is now reaching out to them.
We have yet to talk about Christmas. This is something I'm waiting for him to bring up. I don't know how to handle it. I want him here. I want our family traditions, but I don't know what he wants. I know he isn't happy and wants to be home, but can't. I wonder how much that is him telling himself he can't/doesn't want to vs him telling himself that I don't want him here while he is in such a fog. He has said multiple times to me, you don't want me to come home like this, and I've said I know, I can't have you come home like this. I don't know at what point, at what amount of change I should be willing to let him come home and on what kind of conditions? I don't know what milestone I'm looking for.
I am very impressed by how you are holding it together this early on.
My H is younger then your when this crisis began. I see may similarities. I am successful, though not the main bread winner and he went for someone more dependent and in awe of him.
Their denial of their part in this sitch is so deep it can take months or years for them to realize their contribution. Its very sad. Maybe your pregnancy can help snap him out of it.
Check out this is not the season you think it is by Laura Munson
Hopper,
I had to comment on your post because I could have written most of your post!! Aside from a few differences, they are much the same. My H JUST turned 36, but started this at 35. He has been gone since Aug, has OW, and IM PREGNANT TOO! I am due in March, so he has been gone the majority of the pregnancy. Same stuff...he doesnt ask about pregnancy, ignored the kids (I have 2 D's 14 and 11) at first, (but now has come around) said a lot of the same stuff your H has told you, etc...Read my posts and you will see the similarities...its scary:( My first post was titled "crack in my perfect life" because, as you mentioned, everyone thought we were so perfect and had such a wonderful family and love for each other. I also thought these things (of course, its never perfect..but was great!) and here I am...9 months since he has met OW and 4 months since he moved out to his parents house.
My H also had lots and lots of childhood issues, teenage issues and pretty major depression that he was medicated for. It still baffles me at where I am right now.
I can tell you that in just a few months on this board and 4 months since he left, I AM doing better. I AM NOT detached, and still think of him and want him back, but I have done some changes in myself and have put me and my girls as priority. I also have to be strong for this pregnancy, as you will have to do. I find that I cry A LOT still, but honestly, its not always over H and sometimes I think its the hormones getting the best of me. I have talked to lots of people, read on this board and talked to my IC and they all agree that being pregnant makes this situation harder!! I dont want to scare you, but prepare you to take time for yourself and try your hardest to relax when you can.
We wont have the answers as to why....believe me..Im still asking and wondering. I have read a lot of books too and it has helped me realize that Its something I cannot control and my H's affair is not my fault. I have beat myself up and my self esteem has taken a HUGE hit...but I have gotten better in these 4 months!
Continue post and I will keep up with your sitch...and like I said...if you have time....read mine. If you have any questions, please ask! I am NOT an expert...and I have a long way to go...I am just starting this journey too...but I can try to help by comparing my feelings with yours since you are also preg! I can tell you that my H had not come to any appts or sonograms either....and he just this week, asked for the first time if he could come to one. I am leary, as he is still seeing OW and I just wonder if he may be realizing that he has a son coming in 11 weeks...
Hang in there!
Sweetbriar
Sweetbriar, thank you for pointing me to your threads. I can't believe how similar our stories are. My H too went for an older woman, 8 years older. When he told me her age, I laughed. Probably not a good thing, but that was really funny to me. He has since said that he is repulsed by the idea of guys going for these much younger women. I have made sure not to laugh at that, but yeah, justify it away, buddy.
It just happens that it was an older woman who was insecure enough, selfish enough, and available enough that he used her. Not like who she is even matters. It could have been anyone who had such low respect for herself that she would get involved with a married man.
He always went to every prenatal appointment with my other three, and then just like your H, he hasn't asked me how I'm doing, and he hasn't asked about any appts. I had him go to the ones when he was here at home, but I haven't even talked about the ones since, and he doesn't ask. He mentioned before they make him uncomfortable.
The one thing he hasn't done is drink. He somehow thinks that makes him a better person that he has that boundary. He has been sure to point out that he isn't going out and partying it up. Weird what becomes okay and what doesn't.
I'm on moderation and can't remember what I've posted, so sorry if this is a repeat. I find it really interesting about my H that he tends to make friends with entry-level women at work. He always has. I think it has to do with insecurities he has (not like they're going to do anything but adore him, vs how people at his level and above might be less predictable and he has to watch himself more closely.) I think he likes being the hero. In someways I think it's a tie back to his childhood/teens, especially his mother, and the need he must have felt to protect her, and the guilt of being too young to do so. He likes that these women want to go to him for advice, that somehow he understands them better than their husbands or boyfriends do. They come to him to complain about work, their boss, who knows what. They are opposite from me. I don't talk to other people besides him when it comes to problems, especially work related. I tend to be pretty confident, probably a know-it-all to a fault. I've never talked bad about him to anyone before this, and even still, it now comes from a place of compassion and wanting him to get through this.
I have my hard moments, where I just lose it all. Luckily I've kept that between me and God, and not become a hysterical mess in front of my H. There have been those collapsing moments where I just can't go on and the only thing that has taking the pain away is prayer. Even though I've lost my best friend (just for now I hope) I'm thankful for my blessings. Ultimately, I am most grateful that I am being held by God, even when I feel blessings are slipping through my fingers. That and the unconditional love and pure joy of my boys are what is keeping me intact right now.
So another update. He texted me this morning from his conference to see if I could get him some cash somehow. He never went to the bank before this trip, and so he had $20 besides CC, and he spent that on a taxi. Doesn't sound like a teenager, does it? I knew he hadn't withdrawn anything from the bank, and I didn't ask him before he left if he needed cash, like I normally would or remind him to do that.
I ended up solving his problem by telling him how to do a cash advance from his Visa. I'm not sure if I should have done that. He had asked me to send a moneygram. I know I need to stop solving his problems, but I guess he was trying to solve it by coming to me. He then ended up sending me a lot of texts about the conference and the cool stuff he was learning.
Tonight he called the boys again to say goodnight. Second night in a row, starting a new trend. (Again last night was the first time he had initiated that.) He then wanted to talk to me about more things with the conference, what his plans were, and vent about something, which I was understanding about, validating his position on it. He sounds really upbeat, and that makes me happy. I hate seeing him miserable. It makes it too hard to not just want to crumble and try and fix things, which makes it difficult knowing I can't initiate things with him, and I can't fix anything.
Maybe your pregnancy can help snap him out of it.
Does pregnancy/birth of a child have that kind or effect on MLC men, sometimes? It seems like me getting pregnant was the straw that broke him. He acts now like he had nothing to do with it and has never talked about it.
My nearly 2 yr old asks for Dada every morning and runs to him and won't let go when he sees him. My 8 yr old went into a panic tonight when I left for an hour, even though his dad was there. He screamed, "Mom where are you going?" I had to take him aside after and tell him I will never, ever leave him, that sometimes I have to leave for a few hours but I'll be back. My 5 yr old prayed the other night that Daddy would get off the naughty list, which was actually pretty adorable. They have their moments, but most of the time they are the happiest, most loving children ever. I would be lost without them. It's hard to be depressed when you're surrounded by pure joy. I don't know how my husband can stand being away from them so much.
I read my 5 YO the book Incredible You the other night. At the end of the book, there are questions you can ask your kids that relate to the ten points in the book on how to make an incredible you. One of the questions was something like, "what is your biggest fear?" My S replied that his biggest fear is that I would die or leave him alone like Dad did. I was stunned to tears! I explained to him that I will NEVER leave him. Not ever. I promised I will always be there for him while I'm alive. It was good to know he had that as a fear. We've talked about it several times since and I think he knows that I'm not going anywhere.
My 2 YO daughter asks constantly about who is here. She asks, "is Mommy here?" "Yes, Mommy is here." "Is Daddy here?" "No, Daddy is at Daddy's house." And then she asks about the dog that died almost a month ago and doesn't understand that Dad is gone and comes back but that the dog is gone forever. Sigh.
My sister went through something similar with her husband and his job. He always thought his job made him miserable. When he finally got a job that made him happy, he was still miserable. He then got rid of my sister and guess what? Still miserable. She told him to take a hike. He was not a nice guy anyway.
Hang in there Hopper. I agree-I have no idea how they can see the kids so little although it sounds like your H is at least willing to do counseling with you, which mine is not. He is very interested in the kids but not at all interested in me. I'm not sure what's worse. Take care of yourself, your three wonderful kids and that sweet baby inside. You know that you both wanted that baby before he flipped out, no matter what he says Hopefully it will be the thing that snaps him out of this. I'm praying for you...and me. <3
Thanks GG! He did counseling before with me when he was trying to keep his secrets secret, but now that he is separated he doesn't and I haven't asked. Working on us was a mistake, but he had issues with me and our relationship so that's what made sense to do at the time. I want him to do individual counseling, which he has been talking about since June, but he has yet to make an appointment.
I want him to do individual counseling, which he has been talking about since June, but he has yet to make an appointment.
Warning about pushing them to do this: my H went to counseling at my request and the C dismissed him after about six visits. I saw her and mentioned to her that he was 'finishing up' with her and she said, "therapy is for people that know they have problems and want to fix them." I got her message-he doesn't think he has any issues (we knew that already) and so there's nothing to work on or fix in their minds. Go to therapy if you feel you need it for yourself but allow him to go on his own. Anything else is a waste of time and money IMHO.
And you mentioned in another post how you miss your best friend. Oh how I can relate to that! My kids are in bed just now and it stinks being here alone. We used to sit and look at the Christmas tree and now it's just me. I can and will get through this. I know he will wake up one day and regret it. I just hope it's sooner rather than later. I don't know how I will feel about things if and when we sign divorce papers.
Sending thoughts of strength for you, sweet Hopper. GG <3
Same thing happened in our counseling. He is the one that suggested counseling in the beginning, but then when we actually got to the place where we needed to do the work, he said he didn't want to work on the marriage. So our therapist said we need to move to individual counseling, because she can't work with someone who is unteachable. Then H decided he did want to try, but likely that was just to keep the peace for his family coming to visit.
Last time we went to therapy together was the day after I found out about the OW, where he denied everything and said he was done and wasn't going to try anymore. He was completely broken during that session. A lot of blame thrown at me and he ended up in tears talking about that he would never say no to me and he would never reject me. He didn't like the therapist. He thought she just keep pushing building communication skills. I don't know what he was expecting. Probably validation that we should divorce and everyone would be much happier.
I know I have the power to make him melt and make him comfort me. I know deep down that guy I love is still there, and I just can't abuse the power I have over what's below the monster. That's where I gotta be strong, because I know if I do that it will reset everything.
I hope he goes to individual counseling, but I agree, he has to do it himself. About a month ago he said that he needed to do it to make me feel better and I got upset with him for even suggesting it that way. He brings it up, not much anymore, but doesn't take action, like pretty much everything else in his life right now.
I read the entire persuer distancer thread. Very helpful. My question is how do you know when the game is over? I don't contact him. If there is something I need to tell him, I just wait for him to contact me.
Sorry to take so long to respond but I am not here every day.
The game will be OVER when you see LONG continuous ACTIONS that show he has changed.
Not words and not temporary ACTIONS.
My suggestion right now is to not let it concern you because it could be YEARS down the road.
This is a very long marathon and you are just at the start.
Sorry to have to tell you that.
Take the focus off of him and put it on YOU.
Keep dong what you are doing.
Let him control the contact.
So do you suggest you don't let the MLC spouse come home until there are long continuous actions that prove change, or do you let them come home when boundaries are set and obeyed, but knowing that there will still be this pursuer/distancer game?
If it helps...
I was in that situation once. I chose to let her come back before the long continuous actions. I see that now, but did not at the time.
She left again within 6 months. She then openly started seeing the other man (2 weeks later) and married him just shy of a year after the divorce. She wasn't done with the internal issues. Still isn't if I am any judge. I stopped contact and now she won't leave me alone
I suggest he make the long continuous changes and show you he wants back for quite a while before you let him back. Otherwise, he may not be done with his growth and won't be ready to commit to the relationship in a healthy way. That may not end well on either side if that's the case.
Peace,
AJ
Hopper,
No, you don't allow the mlcer to return home once they are gone. Why? In many instances, they come home and say that they are going to work on the marriage. Guess what? You are the sole partner working on the marriage, they talk about it, but don't. They are in their own little world.
The distancer/pusuer game will continue until you stop it. You have to be the one to stop taking their bait. How to do that? Well, you need to go on w/your life. If your spouse calls, don't pick up the phone every time they call. The same would apply to texts and emails as well. You move forward, leave the door ajar and live your life as if they are not going to return home.
Allowing the mlcer to return too soon, doesn't help them to learn life's lessons and it will also disrupt your life and your children's lives. If they flee again, the pain is going to hurt far worse than the first time around. It is far better to leave them out on the street to work through their issues on their timeclock. If they return home, we "expect" them to be the people they once were and it's not going to happen. They have to get through the crisis in their own way, own time. We can't fix them, we didn't break them.
If and when the crisis is over, you will know. How? Your spouse will be sane and not emotionally flipping all over the place from one minute to the next. Your spouse will begin to reconnect with everyone and you will be the very last person that he/she reconnects with. The mlcer must learn how to grow up and face their demons. If the mlcer truly wants to return home and reconcile, he/she will do everything humanly possible to earn your trust and show you that they are very sincere. It may take years before this happens, so do not sit around and watch the pot boil, i.e., watched pots never boil when you are watching them. Also, don't expect an apology...mlcers very seldom apologize in a manner that we sane people would go about it. They like to sweep things under the rug and keep going. If your mlcer is sincere, you will know it, i.e., actions speak louder than words.
I allowed my xh to return home and my live was a living hell for 7 months until he flew the coop once again, or rather, I openned the cage door and shoved him out to learn about life and to fly solo.
This helps a ton. I was getting confused from conflicting advice, such as it's better to have him in the home, that the best situation you can be in is to have him here with no OW. I've always felt he just can't come back until he is the man that I and the kids deserve and I fully accept that may never happen.
My life is not on hold. I'm doing everything with the kids to keep traditions and fun things alive. I don't care if he shows up or not. I'm focusing on me and making plans and goals for now, after the baby comes, and in the future.
I feel like I've gone through this total enlightening, like it's my first year of college all over again. I see things differently, feel things differently. I spend free time really focusing on the kids, and seeing them individually. I am reading a lot, writing a lot, learning more and more about what I really believe. I see people and understand them in ways I never did before. It's crazy how much more confident I am and happier with myself. If you told me a year ago this would happen to me, I would picture myself as a complete mess for a long, long time, never being able to escape the pain. I feel like a lot of that mess is behind me, and hopefully this is my reality and not some denial I'm in.
I'm trying to walk that line of being his friend, but not his best friend, not his mother, not his wife. I don't ask him how he is doing, I don't ask questions, I don't talk about the relationship, and I don't talk about what is going on with me either. I don't give him any reactions to things, but I listen, being strong and confident.
I don't always answer his calls and typically everything is short and to the point. Sometimes he has called to vent about the place he is in or work, and I just let him. I'm assuming that him starting to reconnect with the kids and calling them each night is a good sign. I just hand the phone directly to the kids and I don't talk to H for this.
I've limited my FB, although I still post things, maybe a few times a week, like funny videos of the kids. He always likes everything. I don't know if seeing those kinds of things makes him feel more guilt and miss the kids more or what. Sometimes I think I should go dark on FB. He however posts a ton and is active on there a lot liking different things.
It was funny one night he posted how melancholy he was because of songs that came on his ipod. He listed them, which included a love song and then songs from what he knows is my current favorite band. Then he posts like an hour later how he is going out and going to party it up and doing a 180 from previous state. I didn't give him any reaction to either of those. I think he does a lot of things right now without even considering how I would interpret them. I am not sure he is even in a state of mind to connect those dots.
So Christmas...do I give him any gifts? Do I give him gifts from the kids?
I've yet to announce I'm pregnant. Probably time to do that. Announce it on FB, tagging him, to let all the women he is flirting with know? Hmm, dunno, dunno.
I've yet to tell my siblings we're separated. Probably time to do that too, considering he's not going to be a part of any extended Christmas stuff.
I think the conflicting info you were receiving is if he were still in the home, don't encourage him to leave. Having them remain in the home after the BD, can be stressful because you are up front and close to all of their crazy behavior and you begin to walk on eggshells. This isn't good for anyone, but it takes it to another stress level if you are pregnant. However, once they have left, leave them on the street to learn about life.
Now, about Chrismas. I think the children should give him gifts on a nonpersonal level, i.e., a nice book or CD, etc. After all, he is their father no matter what he's done. As for you giving him a gift, if you purchase something, make sure it's nothing too personal. Just remember, if you give him a gift, keep your expectations at zero. He may very well not give you anything and I don't want to see you disappointed.
The news about your pregnany, I would let people know on Christmas. A new life is very special and what better time than at Chrismas to announce your news. Congratulations!
Take care of yourself.
Not only is it that he may not give you something, he may not open yours.
I agree, Christmas is a great time to announce the pregnancy.
Congrats!!!
AJ
AJM is correct that he may not open yours, but I can assure you, he'll take it w/him and at some point he will open it. He may not tell you he did or what he thinks of it...but he will keep it as well as any cards, wrapping paper, etc.
Good to know. So much easier going into situations with a knowledge of what might happen so I don't have a reaction to it. He had said in the past that he thinks my love language is receiving gifts (I scored a 0 on that one. Mine was a tie of Quality Time/Words of Affirmation.) He based this on that I like to get things for him. I have always liked getting things for others, him, my kids, far more than getting stuff for myself. I rarely do that. I think he has been resentful of it, because he doesn't reciprocate, but somehow feels like he should be. So giving him gifts right now seems even more touchy. I have a small thing I'll give him, but other things I have, I just plan to keep aside for now.
I think you are wise in not giving him everything since he's had some issues w/this and mentioned it to you.
Just be yourself during the holidays.
What kind of effect does pregnancy/birth of a child typically have on MLC men?
There is no way to tell how your h will react. I would suggest that when you see him after your announcement, that will be when you might be able to tell if he's excited or tends to ignore the announcement. Each and every mlcer is different and that's why we can't tell you have he will react.
You might want to venture over to newcomers and read SweetBriar's postings. She's pregnant and is due in early spring. She already has two beautiful daughters and her h is out on the street.
I am pretty sure he'll be no reaction, but likely annoyed. He doesn't want people thinking badly of him. Me being pregnant is one of the buttons he pushes with me, denying his part in it, that he was forced into it. Others have posted in the thread that maybe having the baby will wake him up, but at this point I wonder if he'd even show up.
No, the baby probably won't wake him up. Once he enters the crisis zone, they have to complete the entire crisis or remain stuck. If they are snatched out of the crisis for any reason, the next time around, the crisis will be far worse than it is now.
Force into it? I would like to know what planet he was on when he made that comment. LOL!
How come I never meet women that force me into making babies?? Seems I have to work at it diligently..although I do recall coming home to a six-pack of man-flowers once before my son was born
I agree with Snodderly. There's nothing going to "wake him up" at this point but him. Like an illness (strong similarities) it'll have to run its course.
Having a baby is a happy time though. Enjoy the time!!! Kids are a lot of fun if you ask me and that's a great Christmas present!
AJ
Hopper,
I know you have read some or all of my posts already...but I can tell you that in my situation, the pregnancy had not made any difference to H. I have NO reason to believe that he will be any different when the baby is born...in fact, he knows that he will not be in the delivery room and he is okay with that. He has made no attempt until last week to even be at an appointment and that attempt was just asking if maybe he could come to one. Im not sure what prompted that request, as I am 29 weeks along and he hasn't asked once to come until now.
I think at first, my H was also worried about what others would think of him..leaving his Pregnant wife and kids...but he got over that pretty quick and also made his affair known pretty quick. Broke my heart and still does that he doesnt want anything to do with me now..except for occasional convos about kids. He has offered to buy the crib and dresser for the nursery..wow...great dad!
For the first few months I really thought he would come to his senses, but now, I agree with the others that responded to you that he has to go through this crisis and a baby MAY even make it WORSE...IMO.
H recently went out to dinner with D and was crying in the middle of the restaurant (read my lastest post in Newcomers) and it really opened my eyes to how he is struggling and in a deep deep depression. I just dont think that our newborn son will do anything but bring on more depression and sadness for him....but I will not know until he is born..got about 10 weeks to go, since my doc thinks I will deliver a bit early!
Im so sorry that you are going through the same emotions and pain that I am. I know this stuff is hard stuff but being pregnant, I think, puts an extra twist on it that makes it a bit harder. I have struggled badly in these past months...even to the point that I wasnt enjoying my pregnancy. I know now that he is not near coming back, if he ever does, and I have started to slowly get ready for baby and had to enjoy all my visits alone. My girls and I are decorating the nursery the week after Christmas while they are home from school too!
I know that this is not the ideal situation and I still cry and wish he was here to feel the baby kick and move and to hear all talks and questions from my girls...but its his loss. He will NEVER get back these days that he missed..but neither will I..and that is why I finally decided to enjoy the rest of this pregnancy, enjoy the preparations and to know that my kids are my number one priority. I know that he will one day regret not being a part of this....
Hang in there..I am right with you. I have friends who have advised me that I need to be careful when the baby is born because they think the same thing you said...that maybe it will wake him up when the baby is reality..but honestly, I believe that his reality right now is his OW, his trip to Mexico, and that life on his own will be wonderful. (all fantasies if you ask me)
I must say though...for someone who is supposed to be so happy and doing exactly what he wanted...he sure is an emotional wreck. I honestly can say that he seems even worse now than he did in the beginning...is that possible? Vets may be able to answer that one...
SB
No kidding, right?! He agreed to it and set the dates to start trying and then said he was surprised I got pregnant and he tried everything he could not to get me pregnant. Statement of proof #135 that he is officially 16 again.
If you it makes you feel any better...my H said that maybe I planned our pregnancy...even though I have a minor condition now, that prevents getting pregnant most of the time. I have not been on ANY BIRTH CONTROL for almost 12 years since my youngest D was born, but all of the sudden I can somehow make myself get pregnant right when we were on the rocks?????? I didnt know I was GOD!
H knows that this is FAR from the truth and I was as shocked as he was...but I believe that this was meant to be...and that GOD does it all for a reason.
MIL ( the one and only time I talked to her through all of this) even mentioned that "I" needed to be more careful if I knew things weren't great with H and I. Yeah, all my fault....H had nothing to do with it....
Can we say CRAZY?
It's hard to say what he will be like in 15 weeks, for due date. A lot can change in 4 months. Right now he is still contacting me somehow every day. He called up today in a very good mood and just wanted to chat to me about his plans for tonight. He has started to do this thing where he asks me about what I have going on, and then apologizes for prying and says I don't need to tell him.
He seemed happy that me and the kids were going out. Kind of funny that when he asks, usually we are. He has talked to the kids every day since Saturday, a whole week now. He also said he wanted to come to the Santa breakfast in the morning, but he doesn't want to be around my family on Christmas. That just makes him uncomfortable. So if I was having the baby tomorrow, I think he would be there, just him and I. But dunno what 4 months will do to him.
Right now I know I could get him to come home. I know I could have a lot of power over him, temporarily, but I'm so glad that have been able to spend the last six weeks try to understand this so I stay off that train.
SB - I feel like my pregnancy was kismet. It had to happen then or it would have never happened. I'm super excited about it. My two oldest boys are so close, in age and friendship, I wanted the same for my youngest. It sure makes it easier to not focus on H and his issues.
I've limited my FB, although I still post things, maybe a few times a week, like funny videos of the kids. He always likes everything. I don't know if seeing those kinds of things makes him feel more guilt and miss the kids more or what. Sometimes I think I should go dark on FB. He however posts a ton and is active on there a lot liking different things.
Hopper,
I finally decided to go dark on FB. H left, I was going to lose my job and I was just too wrapped up in everyone else to really focus on me and my needs. I pop back in from time to time for a few days with news. Sometimes bad (my dog died unexpectedly) and sometimes good (new job-my dream job, really-finally came through just in the nick of time). You can deactivate your account and everything stays just as it is-people just can't see you anymore. You log back in and voila! It's like you never left.
It's hard to move on around the holidays but I have done it all for me and my kids. We put up Christmas lights last weekend on the house (Mommy on the 16 foot extension ladder was a trip for my 5YO) and have decorated the tree a little bit. The only thing I haven't had time to do is bake, which I love to do, but just have been too busy.
Hang in there and share your good news about the baby with everyone. Even if you go dark on FB, you have us here for support and a shoulder. I have discovered that people here 'get' me so much better than my FB friends only because they've walked a mile in my shoes. This is not easy and the twists and turns of the WAS are insane. We will make it though.
Have a very Merry Christmas! -GG
Sweat Briar and Gator Girl,
Im amazed at how you're handling all this! It must be those Mamma hormones kicking in!
FYI in regards to an MLCers mlc interrupted and making it worse....I can attest to that.
My MLcer XH started this journey 7 years ago. It got interrupted by a few things, and he ran away and came back 2 times. Now we've got the doozy going on.
So just hang in there, for whatever comes with their behavior. It's so hard to say WTH could happen.
You guys are amazing!
Kimmerz
Hopper,
I agree that my pregnancy also that it had to happen now or I would have never had more kids. I actually had been to the doc for a yearly check up just 2 weeks prior to finding out I was preg and asked about getting tubes tied. Doc gave me brochures about a new procedure that was less invasive and told me to read up and schedule an appt to get it done. Little did I know, I was pregnant and didnt know it. How is that for meant to be??
I must say that I wish my H was making more contact with me and wanted to talk and such. He has no contact with me unless its involving kids..money..or if he needs a favor from me like finding something he left here that he needs. He has totally shut me out, and I have done the same lately...as hard as its been for me. I feel like my pregnancy has made me focus more on him because he isnt here and he is missing so much. I hope when baby arrives that I will be preoccupied and not focusing so much on H then. My emotions are in waves..I can have really good weeks and then BAM...I start thinking of what could be and that its not going to ever be and I get sad all over.
Right now, Im having a hard time that H has not asked to be involved with ANY holiday stuff...he has just gone about his business like its not even Christmas, although he is taking my kids today to his parents to celebrate. Hard day for me. I wonder sometimes if he stops to remember what we had and what he has lost. I dont think so, because if he did, I think he would see that he made a big mistake in his life.
It is nice that your kids will be so close! I give you credit for dealing with this with small kids. I feel like having my teen and pre teen is nice to be able to talk, go out with them and put all my attention into them (which I did a lot anyway....maybe another reason H felt neglected??) My kids will be almost 15 and 12 years apart when baby boy is born! Crazy timing! Never in a million years did I think I would have another child...God works in mysterious ways...so I pray that he will work his ways on H and make him better..whether he comes back or not!
Hoping you are doing well today and getting ready for the holidays!
SB
So this morning we went to a breakfast with Santa. H loved it, loved being with the kids and seeing them. We went with my brother and his wife and family. H started talking to me about Christmas Eve and I told him about my plans and invited him to come along and he said yes.
So as we were leaving I told him that I needed to tell my B and his W know that we were separated, because H doesn't want to be at the family lunch on Christmas, so time to let people know. H went to his car, and I stayed and told them that we were separated, and it's really hard, but that we're both just working on ourselves right now. I asked them to keep it private. No details.
H was visibly upset, and didn't drive away for awhile. I was upset. It's like reliving it all over again each time I need to tell someone.
Another thing, that I may have not done the right thing with is it came up in conversation about a man who had been lying to his wife about having a job and doing a bunch of stuff financially that ruined them, and his wife left him. My H leaned over to me and said "when I think about how horrible of a person I am, I think at least I'm not as bad as that guy." I just kind of shrugged my shoulders and said, "well...." and H said, "Really?" I didn't say anymore, but I was thinking, what gives you the right to judge him or think that you're somehow justified? You're a liar, a cheat, and an abandoner. I think I'm just supposed to stay positive with him, right? I'm not sure how I can react positively to a conversation like that.
Hi Hopper!
What I have found with my H is that he has this hang up on being judged, yet he is extremely judgemental of other people. I think they like to think that there's always someone who is worse than they are. They truly can't face the damage they have done to the people closest to them.
You did okay with your response, it's hard when they catch us off guard like that. Maybe next time adding on something like "I wonder if he will try to make amends for his mistakes? His wife might think differently then." You know, planting a little seed to maybe make him think? I know, it's a tall order!
I'm sure telling your family was hard, but it is a reality that H has to face. He can't control people's reactions or what they will think of him.
Hang in there, you're doing great
So should I invite him to things? i don't care whether he does or not. In the beginning I would invite him to watch a movie or eat dinner with the family, which he did almost every time, but I stopped doing that a few weeks after he left, once I had a better understanding. I don't want to play that pursuer/distancer game. Family events seem right to invite but not the other.
Despite knowing he is basically in aspergers mode, it's still so hard for me to be around him and him acting like I'm some kind of friend. Emotion takes over logic and i hate feeling the "How is he not going crazy wanting to be with me" emotions. I am really strong around him, it's after he leaves I feel like crap and miss the real him.
I would continue to invite him to family things as you did, just have no expectations (of course). But if YOU aren't up for it, and the feelings afterwards (ugh, don't remind me of them), then don't. The more offhand and "no big deal" your invite is delivered reduces the "pursuer effect", if any. I did/do this with W, keeps the road paved smooth while leaving them thinking they are in control, and I think when they hear about whatever was done, how much fun, whatever, and they missed it, gets them somewhere inside thinking, if only a wee bit.
Just my 2.5 cents.
T^2
Invite him to things? Yikes. My family has known my H moved out practically as soon as it happened, so I will not be inviting him for Christmas, etc. In fact, most of my family has not really seen him since he moved out. I personally feel it is a privilege of membership. If he wants out so badly, he can spend Christmas alone or whatever. Not my business and not my problem. Cold? Yes. What I have to do to keep my sanity? Definitely. But we are all different and your situation is much more complicated than mine with a baby on the way. Follow your gut and do what you feel is right for you and your kids. You don't want to look back and have regrets.
Good for you for being strong around him! The pregnancy hormones really don't help, I'm sure. I agree that I miss "the real him" or at least "the old him"; not sure if that guy will ever come back, honestly. It breaks my heart but some stranger took over my husband's body and I don't really know who he is at this point. I have zero expectations of him now and that's a good thing because he's just as oblivious to things as he always was. Read on...
I have stopped being my H's social secretary. It took its toll on Thursday when he texted me to see if the kids were ready for bed (he usually says goodnight to them on FaceTime when I have them for the evening). I told him we were at S5's musical for school and that they would call him when we got home. When we called, I swore he sounded like he'd been crying. He missed his son's first school performance. Multiple fliers have come in from school and it's been on the school sign since Thanksgiving. Nice, huh? However, he's almost 40 years old and it's not my job anymore to remind him of this stuff. I had a gut feeling he wouldn't be there and I was right. Go figure.
I'm really being careful not to take responsibility for him anymore. I tell him once and don't remind him. He is moody right now with Christmas, that he is left out of his fav time of year. He reminds me so much of his father, so self absorbed, and ironic H feels a lot of anger towards his father right now.
In someways I think H realizes how horrible and selfish he is being, but he is able to justify it or stand behind the "I'm a terrible person," which now is the excuse to be terrible.
A few weeks ago before I started posting here I had a convo with H where he seemed really receptive. He was talking about what he was going through, feelings, etc. talking about how he knows he needs help. It prompted me to share an article on the 14 signs that a midlife crisis is destroying your marriage. He agreed with every sign except two: he didn't agree that he would be upset if I filed for divorce or that he was spending money frivolously. I agree he has been good financially. If he started a relationship with the OW or did anything financially, I think he knows I would file or at least legal separation. And how does he know how he'd feel if i filed anyway? So interesting to me he has kept those things in check, likely knowing if he pushed me too far he would lose options.
But it's not like knowing and agreeing he is in MLC has changed him. He is still repressing everything and not dealing with anything and blaming everyone else for his problems.
My W wouldn't HEAR of her being in MLC for a LONG time, but eventually she got to a place where she could entertain the possibility and she then went off to do her own research and come to her own conclusions...she accepts it now. I hope your H can get there soon! He seems to have some residual small grasp of reality from what you have written...yay!
Let him figure it out in his own time and manner (like we have a choice...lol).
T^2
That's what I keep thinking. He could be a lot worse than he is. At this point I think I've done everything I possibly could, not much, but taken advantage of opportunities and let go of the anger towards him. It surprises me the amount of compassion I feel for him. I can't believe how I can still care so much about him and I don't want him to be suffering.
I hope he can kick himself in to gear faster than most, but it's been good to have this time for my own soul searching. And the thing is, i want more. I don't want to settle. I want a better husband and father than he was before. I want an equal partner.
It's been so long since I've taken anytime for myself. It's so much easier to breath when I can let go of the need to fix him/marriage and not take it personal and let go of the blame. So much easier to do from a distance. Still a ways to go. Thanks T^2!
Is asking H to take the kids more a good thing or let him decide when he wants them? Is being around the kids helpful for him to get motivation to work through things inside himself, or better that he has more time to himself to miss them and regret how much he is missing out on?
Hopper,
Your h can't work on his issues if he is distracted. However, as a father and a parent, he should be spending more time w/his children. You can ask him about seeing the children more, but keep your expectations at zero because most mlcers don't want to spend a lot of time w/their children. Children = responsibility and are reminders of what he should be doing which = guilt buildup. The children will not motivate him to work through things inside himself....only he can do that. He has to be the one to do this on his own, by himself. They are issues that do not involve you, your children or your relationship. They are issues from his own childhood.
You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him.
Sounds good, Snodderly. I've just let him take them when he asks, which has been almost two weeks since he has. He has stopped in a few times but only stays for a few mins. Last time he said, "thanks for letting me see them on such short notice." I told him he could see them whenever he wanted to. He has been calling them every night to hear what secret Santa brought them, so will be interesting to see if that continues. I've had the feeling I should just put it all in him to maintain relationships and not initiate contact with the kids. The exception is if the kids ask to call him.
H came over Christmas morning. He cleaned the walks and kitchen and had gifts for the boys. I had a gift for him from each boy and one from me. He brought in some gifts for me after he had opened his. I'm sure to make sure he had something if I did. Once my parents got here he left. He said "I love you and Merry Christmas." Then he gave me a long hug. Now I'm a complete wreck.
IMHO, ask him to take the kids but for THEIR sake, not yours. They need time with their dad. You need time alone to rest with your pregnancy, but don't expect his time with the children to bring him back to you. In fact, don't have ANY expectations of him.
Don't expect regret or anything from him. In his mind, his actions are justified and anything that happens is twisted around to further justify them. He will work out his own issues (hopefully) in due time. From what I read, some NEVER work through their demons. It's hard as hell especially with it being Christmas. Take deep breaths and enjoy every moment with your babies. This point in all of your lives will only come once. Look around and enjoy every single moment as it comes. As they said in Shawshank, "get busy living or get busy dying." We're too young to die-enjoy it all and LIVE!
Big Christmas hugs to you and yours, Hopper...
-GG
H called tonight at bedtime. First contact since he left yesterday morning. He sounded really happy when I answered the phone and wanted to know if I had a fun time last night. I said yes and asked him how his night was and he said he hasn't been doing too well and the last time he ate was the Christmas breakfast I made, but he was just heading out now to get something, as he was at the point he could eat again. He said sorry for complaining and I told him I'd listen to him whenever he needed to complain.
I'm still reeling a bit from the "I love you" yesterday. That is the first time he has said it, not as a reply to me saying it, since July. I haven't said it to him since he left. I'm still in super strong, friend mode, letting him do all the driving and just following his lead.
Stay strong, Hopper. I think you're doing an amazing job. I know there are moments when you think you will fall apart at the seams, but from the sounds of things, you are handling everything very well.
I would be reeling to from an "I love you" too. I did say it to my H after he left when I broke down a month ago on the phone after the dog died and I brought up the relationship topic. Epic fail. Horribly bad idea. I don't recommend it.
We're here if you need us. Heaven knows venting here is easier than anywhere else.
Got a call as I was driving home tonight from H, wanting to know if we had eaten and wanted to meet for dinner. Went out with the kids and had a nice time. Just talked about random chit-chat. S8 asked him if he would come over and see his present from Christmas, and H said he couldn't tonight, but maybe Saturday. When we left I just thanked him for inviting us and got in the car. No hug or anything.
Has he called about seeing/taking the kids tomorrow? Hope he takes them for a bit so you can have some quiet time and get some rest. I only have two little ones...I can't imagine three and one in the oven. You must be exhausted. Take care of yourself.
GG
Nope. I noticed he went into work today, even though he is off. I think I'm pretty lucky because the kids play so well together. I can usually get some kind of rest whenh S1 has his nap. I also have a lot of family nearby, so I had my niece over yesterday for about 5 hours watching the boys and doing laundry, while I went for a massage and ran errands. So I'm in a pretty good position where I can get help from others. I think that's probably a good thing for me to do and not count on him or ask him for things. I think it's good for him to be the one taking initiative in everything. I've told him he can see the boys whenever he wants, so the ball is in his court.
Good for you on all counts! I have a lot of family in town also and it's a huge help. My parents offered to take the kids on 'my' weekend when I want to grocery shop for a few hours. My mom was our babysitter when the kids were little and she went from seeing them every day to being pretty much completely cut off this summer when my grandmother fell ill and moved in with them for a few months. It was tough on all of them to not see each other. It's nice for me to shop alone plus they love my parents, so I have agreed to that.
Bought Conway's book "Your Husband's Midlife Crisis" tonight on Kindle and am devouring it like a crazy person. Very interesting read so far, particularly if you are at all religious (which I am) and find peace and strength in a few bible verses thrown in here at there.
Praying for a wonderful 2013 for both of us, whatever that means. Take care, Hopper.
GG
GG,
I'm glad to see that you are reading Jim Conway's book. You might want to read his wife's book as well. Sally did an excellent job writing about his mlc and has a lot of good informaiton in her book.
H texted and called last night about seeing the boys today. He is over here now playing games and I've gone to my room to rest. When he called we ended up talking about random stuff for 20mins.
I never posted about Christmas Eve. H came with me and the boys to a party with friends that night. It was hard to be around him acting so normal, like we were a couple, talking to people about how we met, and referring to me constantly as his wife. It was all like old times, and that's hard.
He kept singing songs about being lonely for Christmas that night. He played some of those Christmas without you songs when we were in the car too. Then at one point during the meal he told me he keeps listening to and singing Beautiful South's "I need a little time." If you haven't heard it before, look it up and see the video, since it's a two voice song, the lyrics alone don't do it justic. Pretty funny and pretty relatable to all of us. I told him I've been listening to "Cell Block Tango" from Chicago. He laughed at that.
He has been going out every friday night with a game group, but he didn't last night. He said he was too tired. Just weird that here is his one thing that he does, and then yesterday he doesn't even do that.
So same ol' same ol'. Two steps foward, one step back, two steps forward, three steps back. I know he doesn't sleep. I know he is miserable, but he puts on a good face. I don't know how much he is trying to hint things at me, perhaps testing me, wanting me to pursue. Ain't gonna do it. Ain't gonna eat that broccoli.
On a side note, would it be okay to start another thread asking for motivational quotes for dealing with MLC? I'd love to hear what has inspired others to get them through the days. I've been putting post-it notes on my mirror of some of the quotes that have been helpful to me to keep going and to focus on what matters. Some from books I'm reading and some from things people have said here. I'm not sure on the board etiquette for that.
I think you are close enough to the posting limit to go ahead and start a new thread.
GG,
I'm glad to see that you are reading Jim Conway's book. You might want to read his wife's book as well. Sally did an excellent job writing about his mlc and has a lot of good informaiton in her book.
The book is insane in that it describes H almost exactly. It's incredible. The only part I really don't know about is if he's having an A-I asked him point blank several times before he moved out and he said 'no' each time, but he's lied to me in the past about everything from smoking to drinking so I'm not putting a whole lot of faith in his answer. I am interested in reading the book he originally wrote but it's not available on Kindle and I am in love with my iPad, so that makes it tough. I hope Michele is listening about that-I don't think I've seen any of her books available in digital versions!
H has completely withdrawn from me and we only discuss arrangements with the kids. He's asked a few questions about my new job but that's it. I answer them but remain a bit mysterious.
So when I know H is lying about something, do I just let it go and pretend like I don't know better? I hate the lies. And lying about little dumb stuff is super annoying. He brought over two CDs today to put on his iPod and they were ones I already had bought months ago. I had offered then for him to put them on his iPod and he said he didn't care for either band. So him buying them like he said seems rather odd. He also said he got them super cheap, not likely. So either he is getting nostalgia for my music (not likely) or someone else gave them to him as a gift and he doesn't want to say who.
I'm halfway through Men in midlife crisis. I also bought Sally's "you and your husband's MLC" and the one they did together "your marriage can survive MLC." I'm very spiritual too, so I like the Christian message in it. Another that has been good is "hope for the separated" by chapman. I really like his "5 love languages" and this one also has Christian insights. It's really helped me accept my faults and focus on forgiveness. It's been a long long time since I've read this much.
Hopper,
After reading the Conway books, you may even want to consider visiting his web site. I visit there periodically and there are a number of old timers who still post there as well. A lot of the advice that has been provided here is over there as well, i.e., Just like on the Hero's Spouse site.
I enjoyed reading Sally's book and it provided the three types of mlcers w/a description for each one of them. Sally passed away a few years ago, but she and Jim did have a great relationship, despite his mlc.
I understand how you feel about reading...I read everything I could get my hands on back in the day.
Please take care of yourself.
I'll look into the other Conway books as well as the one Snodderly suggested as well. I have days where I can tear through the books and then others where nothing gets read. Par for the course, I guess. I took a bath last night and was going to read but realized I was starting to fall asleep and didn't really want to lose my iPad in the bathtub by accident. That would be horrible!
Yes, it's been a long time since I've read so much as well. I am also reading God Wants You Happy by Father Jonathan Morris. It's very interesting and I think applicable because it talks a great deal about releasing negative thoughts and actions (and working on positive ones), forgiving other people, asking for their forgiveness and forgiving yourself. Fr. Jonathan wrote one of my favorite quotes in an article some time ago, one I carry with me at all times. It goes, "In my perfect timing, I will bring out a new and greater good out of every instance of your suffering if you let me". He goes on to explain, "In other words, it is a promise that God will find another route for perfect happiness for us that’s even better than the first…in his time, and if we let him." Those words ring so true for me and I think that if I can't believe enough to let God do His thing, I may as well give up on God altogether. I've experienced His plan firsthand, the most noteworthy being the two miscarriages I had before I had my S5. If either of those babies had been born, I wouldn't have gotten what turned out to be my favorite job. That job led me to the job I started two weeks ago, so it's all connected and all has a purpose. Having seen Him work all those years ago, I know I will be fine and that I just have to be patient to see what He has in store for me.
Yup he did lie about it. I had the receipt reprinted. So, I just ignore it?
I would hold off saying anything to him about the items right now. There will come a time when you can present the evidence to him...sit quietly...more answers will be revealed.
Alright. I guess the good thing is it doesn't look like he bought anything for her. Also she bought him music he doesn't like. That's so great!
Tonight I sent H a text to let him know we were invited to my brother's house for New Years and he was welcome to join us. He came over, which surprised me somewhat, and also stayed the entire time. My parents were there, and they are the ones he has had the hardest time being around, I'm sure just feeling a ton of guilt. I think it's really difficult to be around my Mom, because he looks at her as his own. He still calls my parents Mom and Dad, even tonight. He spent a lot of time talking with my Dad, normal chit-chat. When my parents left, he gave both of them a hug, and kissed my mom on the cheek. He stayed the whole time until we were all ready to leave. He helped put the boys in the car, gave them hugs and kisses, and told me Happy New Years. No hug or anything for me. He seemed really happy the whole night. It felt like old times, him asking me to tell stories, etc. I miss him.
His dad posted on Facebook that hopefully the new year will bring some sense to people. H pointed it out to me and he was smiling about it. I told him I was so responding, but then didn't.
Here's a New Years hug for you, Hopper. (((( ))))
Best wishes in the new year.
H and I talked last night via phone at new year. He told me that no one understands what is going on inside of his head. He said at some point when he can get through this, he and I will have a very frank conversation about what has happened, and he doesn't think that I will be able to get over it, that I will judge him, and that I will make the choice to walk away from him forever. I told him I know he is in hell. That I can't begin to image what he is going through and it's hard knowing there isn't anything I can do to help him fix it. He said that he wishes I had someone who could make me happy. I told him that he makes me happy, and that he doesn't want that. It won't make him feel any less guilt and that I'm the best thing that ever happened to him and he would never be happy knowing he lost me. I told him he is worth forgiveness.
It's hard to help them see that they need to accept it if we are willing to forgive and that we are able to make judgments about what we deserve. They need to decide what they want and to allow us to decide what we want without making the decision for us.
H is in withdrawal from OW. He has stopped talking to her but misses her. He doesn't think I can forgive him and that we need to move towards D. Is there anything I can do? I don't know how to reassure him.
Here's what I told my W when she was saying similar:
-W, I think I am the one to decide who/what I forgive.
-I have been forgiving you all along on this journey, and I am not going to "un-forgive" you because I forgive you for MY sake.
Gotta watch them, they will/can use this as an excuse to "justify" a S or D, at least in their mind, to get back with OP, back to replay....YMMV
Hope that helps some.
T^2
I also think it is great that you know where he is at, the withdrawal is hard for them, think of someone recovering from drug use or something to help with your empathy and compassion, and understanding...
Sorry so short posts, gotta run, back to work life tomorrow...
T^2
I like what you said and told him so. He was saying he is waiting til after new year for us to move toward D. I think he feels so much guilt about the A that he can't see me forgiving him and that there is no other option. I do feel right now that he has such strong feelings for OW that he may want the D to go back to her, thinking then he won't feel the guilt.
Hopper, I like what T^2 said also. It's such a tricky place to be for you.
My H has oft repeated the "why do you want me when I don't want you" theme and it's so very painful.
I also had to hear, many times, his wish that I had someone better than him, his feelings that I made a poor choice in marrying him, he wish that I had a person that could make me happy, etc. It's the depression talking.
I did use a DB coach a couple of times and have a third time left which I'm waiting to use. They can be so very helpful too.
I'm glad your H can verbalize a little bit to you how he is feeling. I think you listening, validating his value to you, etc. is very powerful, although it can be tiring when it doesn't seem to be going anywhere! I know!
Keep listening, being your awesome self, taking good care of you and your boys. Keep being strong, your H needs that!
I also had to hear, many times, his wish that I had someone better than him, his feelings that I made a poor choice in marrying him, he wish that I had a person that could make me happy, etc. It's the depression talking.
I'm glad your H can verbalize a little bit to you how he is feeling. I think you listening, validating his value to you, etc. is very powerful, although it can be tiring when it doesn't seem to be going anywhere! I know!
Hey guys,
This theme of "You need someone better than me; I can never make you happy"
seems a common one.
It's so hard to respond to however. How do you validate this marriage breaker and yet still communicate that you disagree with their view?
Funny my h said the same thing,even picked out a few for me! They were def not my type!
I don't validate what he projects onto me. He can't determine my feelings for me. I only validate his feelings of himself or how he feels about things. I guess you could say, "I understand that's how you feel, but that is not how I feel."
It's funny that H thinks that I would not be able to forgive him for this, yet a year ago I'm the one who was talking daily with a friend of mine, telling her that she could get over an A of her husband's, and they got back together. She told he H if it wasn't for my support, she would have never taken him back. (He didn't like that much, but eh :)) Yet H says he would be able to forgive me for an A. Although, he abandoned me and his children over nothing. Lots of forgiveness there.
How annoying is it that every single thing they say is so self-serving? They project every feeling they have and every notion they have about the relationship and make it "real" even if we don't actually feel it. It reminds me of my H telling me that there was "no way you could have been happy all this time" when in fact, I really was. Ugh. Makes me so frustrated.
However, there are some pretty sweet things in the bible about love...it forgives ALL things. Love never fails.
Lots of prayers for you Hopper,
GG
I feel like I'm on such a tightrope right now. I've tried this whole time to have him be the one to innate contact, but I feel like maybe he is holding back for fear of rejection. I really do think he has cut off contact with OW, but he could get pushed back that way. He cares about me, but unable to care about me as a wife right now.
I know he wants to talk to me, but can't bring himself to do something he knows will hurt me. I don't want to talk about the OW or us. I want him to figure out what got him to this point in the first place. He always says yes to doing things with me, but I'm so torn between should I invite him or keep waiting for him to initiate? For the most part he seems in the same place. Working a ton, then isolating himself and watching TV.
Last night he called to say g'nite to the boys. I didn't talk to him. S8 told him he missed him a lot. He hasn't spent very much time with them in the last month. I sent him a text this morning telling him to "Be strong." he responded, " Thanks. What brought that on? :)" I said, "You're always on my mind. I feel the pain you're in. I know you can get through this." He said, "Thanks (me)"
I don't know if this helps you out at all, but my therapist suggested to me that I send a letter to my H detailing how I felt, what I wanted and that I wanted this marriage to work. That way, he could never say that he didn't know or that I never told him. It puts the ball in his court regarding reconciliation, counseling, and initiating discussion. At the end of the letter, she suggested I write, "I will not bring this up to you again", basically saying that I am backing off until he is ready to talk.
Since you feel like he's sitting there like a loaded gun, maybe it will help?
Hugs,
GG
After reading more on the persuer/distancer I think I better back off. I have told him things like that before so he should know. I just need to let him be the persuer, which is new for him.
H said he would take S8 to his game this morning at 8am. He then brought breakfast back and a box of doughnuts and ate here. He said he ran into friends of ours at the game and these friends are D. H and other guy were complaining about having to get up so early for the game and then have to drive over from their appartments too. H then said to them, he can't complain. He brought all this on himself and this is all his fault. Interesting he said that to them and then told me too.
I feel like OW is over, but H is lonely and depressed. But, he doesn't have the feelings for me. He cares about me, he's not in love with me. I guess that's to be expected. He fell for the OW and probably way too painful to feel anything for me knowing he has betrayed me. So hard to be around this man who I felt loved me beyond all measure, looking at me as a friend.
It is hard to be "friends" when you were best friends and lovers and co-parents. Marriage is that, and more. H was complaining about not having much money when we're divorced. I said to him that I won't either. Man, it's all about them, which is why we need to make it about us, and get ourselves healthy and moving on. In your case, I can see that it would be good to leave the back door open, and a light shining in the window, but not always be there for him. You're still young, so don't let life pass you by.
Thinking of you and sending positive vibes. Not surprised H says he doesn't have feelings for you. Sounds like part of their script and they honestly think it's over. The depression seems to suck all that feeling out of them. Horrible stuff, depression. My H has fought it pretty much constantly throughout his entire life. I feel bad for him. I'd hate to feel like that all the time. How awful.
Just wanted you to know you're on my mind. Saying prayers for you and yours tonight.
Peace,
GG
im new to this site but it amazes me they all say the same stuff. my husband tells me he miserable for yrs n says he believes I was also even though I wasnt.
Thanks GG! You're in my thoughts too. I hope all is doing well for you and your sweet family. I'm starting to feel peace in knowing that everything is going to work out well for me, perhaps not H, but I am going to be fine. This next year may be the hardest, but I see a bright future.
New thread started -
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2312654