My husband left me a letter in December which started "I don't want to get into a long emotional discussion with you...." We have been married almost 19 years and together for 23. We have two boys 12 and 15. I never saw this coming. In fact, in November we had spent more time on or own than we had pre-kids. I was feeling really happy that we were moving into this new season of life. I've been a SAHM since the kids were born and there has been financial strain because of it. In the last couple of years we became very serious about improving our financial outlook and we were doing great, at least I thought we both viewed our progress the same way. After he left, he listed lack of money as a stress. Also said he was concerned about retirement (he's 49) and college. Within a week he leased an apartment in another town for 6 months. He said he needed time and distance. I got a text saying I love you, but.... I've learned this is classic. There is no OW, according to him. He tried to have a relationship with the boys, but they're hurt and mad and he wouldn't acknowledge their feelings. He blamed me for them not being able to "move on." That was at the 6 week mark. Last week he told me via phone (after I refused to discuss our relationship via email) that he wants to proceed with divorce. I compassionately told him I thought he was in MLC and encouraged him to talk to someone that he can trust who will help him navigate this difficult time. I also told him that when I looked back I saw times when he was looking for validation and I had missed the cues. Never having gone through this before I just wasn't equipped to help. I was dealing with my own frustration of his distance from me and the boys. I've since read DR and see where I made some mistakes. I want to use some 180 techniques and would really like some advice from others who have tried them. Also, I'm pretty certain that I'm dealing with MLC (turning 50, lost both parents in last two years, aches and pains of aging, money concerns, now dressing differently, trolling dating sites, hanging out with a younger crowd from work), but I would really like feedback. Within the last year, my husband said to me "Our marriage is perfect, except for the finances." What happened and what should I do? He wants to talk on the phone this week (didn't say why), which is a first since he has preferred email and texting.
Hi, I am sorry you are going thru this. It is especially hard to watch your kids go through it. I hope you are talking to a DB coach, as that is the best way to get very concrete advice immediately as to how to go forward in a way that is most likely to open his heart and have him react differently to you and the kids. There is a $30 discount on coaching today. I would be happy to talk to you further. Take care.
I forgot to mention that he says he just wants happiness. Combined with story above - MLC?
Hugs!
It seems like you have already done a lot of reading and thinking. Keep it up. You are working on yourself, and that is good.
Finances are one of the things that trigger an MLC, thats true. In my case, that is what my H said. But in the end, I did find out that there was an OW, and EA, and I still believe, even if he denies it to this day, that although finances and all the problems led to the sitch, it was the OW that triggered the bomb.
There is really nothing much we can do but work on ourselves. Anything you say or do will be seen as pressure, and I think your H is avoiding that by not having conversations about your R. I actually think that is good, because the more you talk about R, the more it gets worse. Give him space.
Read about everyone's sitch here, you will probably find those that you identify with.
More people will come along, and all I could say is that you have come to the right place!
Angel61,
Thanks for the response and the reminder to give him space. I'm really hoping that by avoiding R talks I can stall divorce proceedings until the MCL journey is complete. There may come a time when I've decided that I'm ready to move on. I guess in some ways I have. I've read a ton regarding marriage, my own issues, etc. I'm also in the process of resurrecting my career and playing the sports that I enjoy. I also spend a lot of time with my kids and supportive friends. I'm definitely missing my partner, but am feeling so much better than I did several months ago. All of this has lead to less hurt, resentment and anger. I've also been able to be loving from a distance without needing or expecting anything in return. We'll see how the next phone call goes. It might send me backwards, especially if he pushes the divorce or decides to tell me about OW, if there is one. Any advice on how to respond if either of those issues come up? I really want to follow the DR advice and stay focused on him, not me and the R.
I think no matter how well you prepare for an OW, it will be hard when the time comes. I have been in this sitch for almost 2 years now and OW is receding into the background, we are actually piecing, but anything about OW still sends me into a tailspin.
One thing though: whatever he says, don't make any sudden decision, and being quiet and thinking aboutit, or coming here to ask for advice, is best.
I am curious, what did your H say about it when you said he is undergoing an MLC? Most men would violently deny it.
He said that he doesn't necessarily believe that he is in MLC, but he didn't deny it. He said that he would think about what I said and give me a response later. He's been saying that all along though, so I don't necessarily believe that he's considering what I said. Whenever we've talked I have voiced my concern, opinion, my commitment to work on me or our relationship, etc. and he always says I need to think about what you've said and I'll get back to you. After reading DR I will totally back off of that approach and just let him talk. I wish I knew why he wants to talk this week. If he wants to check on the boys, our house (it's listed), or whether I've contacted an attorney per our last conversation he could do that via email which has been his practice. I want to hope that the compassion that I showed him last week has made it safer for him to talk to me, but I know that would be foolish. It's too soon for that. Any thoughts or advice on how to proceed?
So very sorry that you find yourself here. Now is the time to stay focused on YOU and your boys - as hard as it is. Many of us heard the finances issue / etc. Bottom line - doesn't matter at this point what it was that "triggered" the actions - it is what it is. The only thing you can control is YOU. Go slow, extreme self-care, prayer, and use this site! It really helps!
Ditto what everyone is saying. The beginning is really heavy, and difficult, but it does get better when you get detachment perfected (another hard thing to do).
Take care of you, and your boys.
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This is my
ultra brand new and improved list of links.
I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956The link for the resources:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1539436Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Doormat tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Why they run:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=67406&page=1http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...6668#Post526668Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=714209The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
The stages of MLC are a template which can only be laid over an MLCer's experience retrospectively.
It's impossible to see the pattern until it has finished being laid or the crisis is complete.(nickel Cyrena).
So do not be too concerned where your MLC'er is in this process.
(Although my general guess is that they are in REPLAY)
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he says and 50% of what he does.
I would not ask him anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power.
Hi golfmom, so sorry to hear that you are going through this. i know how hard it is to wait and wonder about the scheduled talk... i wish you all the best. I was just saying on my thread that my new GALing activity was to buy a turntable and listen to fun old records. I hope you can find something that gives you some peace and helps you grow as you wait....and please read all the successes reported on this forum. They really help!
Me: 51 W: 41
T: 10 M: 7
ILYBINILWY: 7/11
Moved out: 10/11
Moved back in: 11/11 moved out again and asked for divorce 7 days later
Wants to work on things: 1/12
Decision to move across country: 2/12
After today I've lost all hope. My husband left preliminary mediation papers on the porch this morning. I told him I was not agreeable. I met with an attorney today and have a plan in place if I'm pushed. If he wants a divorce he can file. I've asked him to leave me alone. For me that's a180. I'm hoping to stall. For what it's worth, my attorney said that quite often the spouse that wants out at some point later in the proceedings or afterward has a change of heart but by then the other spouse has moved on.
After today I've lost all hope. My husband left preliminary mediation papers on the porch this morning. I told him I was not agreeable. I met with an attorney today and have a plan in place if I'm pushed. If he wants a divorce he can file. I've asked him to leave me alone. For me that's a180. I'm hoping to stall. For what it's worth, my attorney said that quite often the spouse that wants out at some point later in the proceedings or afterward has a change of heart but by then the other spouse has moved on.
I think that does happen a lot.
Try to handle the relationship and separation agreement separate. Most states are either equal (not much to fight over unless disputed over valuation of assets), or equitable (spouse gets to keep pre-marital assets or stuff that is bought with them). There are usually formals for alimony (if that applies in your case) and pretty much always a set state guidlines on child support. I would just not discuss it with spouse just let attorneys work it out.
Angel,
I have been looking all over the community for anyone who has been through the Retrouvaille program. I just saw it in your signature. What did you think? I want to try it some day with my H if he ever comes around.
My H walked in January and in an intense EA/PA. I have been DBing for a little less than a month now. I stumbled across Retrouvaille on the Internet and then the priest who married us mentioned it to me the same day.
PrincessP
I received a text from H today outlining what he's willing to agree to so we can save time and money. It's so much more complicated then he thinks. He also referred to my attorney as "our" attorney. Yesterday I asked him to leave me alone and I meant it and now this. I'm starting to feel bullied. I'm not the one who left and wants a divorce. He left me with two angry kids to raise, a house to sell and I've had to quickly get a job after 15 years as a SAHM. He just has no idea how he's hurt us and the incredible burden he's placed on me. I'm tired of being hurt and angry and have really done my best lately to move forward and focus on me and boys. Today I just feel defeated. I called H re his text and said that he needs to hire his own attorney. I'm not the one who wants the divorce so I'm not filing and, in general, I just have too much to take care of right now. I also let him know that we are coming at this differently. I need to protect my financial future and that of the boys and he's looking for a quick fix. I was calm and told him that I won't stand in his way, but I'm just done with all of this back and forth. I probably came across as negative, but I just couldn't muster up any illusions of being chipper and content with my life. So H was frustrated when we hung up, but what does he expect? While he's able to compartmentalized his feelings, I'm not. I'm living and breathing this horrific situation that he pushed me into.
Golf Mom,
The first thing I would strongly advise, if you can, get your very own attorney! There are attorneys out there that will do sliding scale fees' or take payments. If it weren't for my attorney I never would've been heard, never gotten spousal support, and NEVER would've gotten cooperation from my stbx.
My stbx did the same thing, wanted a quick divorce. At first I wasn't going to contest, thinking he had no extra money to pay me spousal support,I couldn't afford an attorney,and there was no reason for me to fight him on custody of the kids. Then things started coming out of the closet in regards to stbx.He had plenty of money to give me spousal support.I knew I needed an attorney but didn't have the money And by the Grace of God I got a very unexpected dividend check from my deceased mother as her only heir! Mother was helping me from above! I know she still looks out for me all the time! I was able to retain an attorney with this money. He took the case for a much smaller fee and did alot of pro bono stuff for me. I can make payments too.
This is the hardest part, knowing you must stay strong and think of the financial future of you and the kids, yet still have your heart break at the same time. But don't give up, just keep going foward. At times you will want to buckle under the pressure and throw your hands in the air. Once again, don't give up. Don't let him buffalo you or bully you. I felt very bullied by stbx, cause when I hired an attorney and he found out I was standing my own ground, Oh boy he was infuriated. Don't let that stop you.
I also found out that OW and his flipping cousin that used to be a legal secretary were pumping him up not to pay me child support before a court order was made, and filling his head with all this other crap. They thought I didn't have an attorney and were hoping I would get the shaft and he'd save all this money, of course OW wanting it to be spent on her so she can continue to be a kept woman. He tried getting out of child support in the middle of December. I called my attorney. I got nasty emails from STBX, but I did get my money and have promptly ever since. You husband may try to bully you, because he's acting like a selfish child right now. What do we do when our children have tantrums and act out? Keep our boundaries and stay firm.
Remember there are TWO in this marriage and you both do have rights, ESPECIALLY YOU! HE LEFT, AND HE MUST DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS ACTIONS. PERIOD.
Ok....Im on my soap box now...oh your sitch seems so similar! I was a SAHM till 3 years ago. I had to go back to work because stbx lost his job. Yes you are living and breathing this horrible situation that you were thrust into without any consent from you what so ever. I am so sorry because this is how I've felt so many times, especially after he first left. One thing I did learn though, during the worst part of this was..... I can do this on my own. I can. Im not saying it's easy, because it will be the hardest thing you do for a while, but you will be able to make it.
Thank you, kimmerz. I really appreciate all of your insight since you're farther along in the process. I am definitely hiring my own attorney. I met with a women yesterday who I really liked. She advised me to sit back and let him file and then we'll respond. I'm in the process of looking for a full time job and that will be huge in how this plays out in terms of the house. The longer this takes the better for me. In the meantime, I've told H that I expect him to pay my legal fees as I will not go into this unrepresented. He wanted this so he can pay.
At the beginning of this week I was still hoping to reconcile, but after all of this I don't know what I want. I just need the weekend to refocus on me and the boys. I will just never understand how someone can treat their long time spouse this way. I just keep telling myself that just because he left doesn't mean I was worth leaving. At first, I felt so bad and believed that everything he told me about myself was the reason for our ruin marriage. It took awhile, but I truly know that this all about him. I was a faithful, loyal and supportive wife for almost 19 years. He was lucky to have me.
Hey Golf Mom, can I make a suggestion? Copy what you wrote above and keep it handy. You'll want to go back to that at some point and I highly recommend you do.
This is his trip. You weren't invited and were likely pushed away from it.
Remember what you wrote above and focus on that. This is about him. It'll help you with your sanity along the way
AJ
Thanks for the suggestion, AJM. I will do just that. I am working really hard on detaching and the more I do the better perspective I have on this ridiculous situation. I don't seem to feel as hurt and angry as I did. Now I'm just really annoyed and still a little traumatized. I notice that things that used to get my heart thumping don't anymore, but if I see that H sent me a text I feel an anxiety attack coming on. I know detachment will help with this. Does anyone else react this way?
hello golfmom,
Reading your sitch. It seems to me that things are moving incredibly fast here. What is the rush? This is a life changing situation. Is your s open at all to any kind of counseling to ensure that this is what he really wants?
Just my 2 cents, I am sorry you are going through this>
I've asked H the same question. For him, it's been over three months and he doesn't feel any different than when he left, except for having less resentment toward me. He has also excepted some responsibility for the demise of our marriage, however, he has not pointed out his contributions or apologized for them. H doesn't seem to get that he needs to take action to fix problems and grow love. He has chosen to avoid me. For me, this all came out of left field. According to H he had been thinking about this and detaching for awhile. H seems to think we'll just move on, including the kids. While he avoids emotional pain at all costs, the rest of us will carry these wounds into the future.
Golf mom,
I am truly baffled, and find it amazing that a man would be ready to discard a long marriage and children on what seems like a whim. I have been on this board for a few months now and find myself continuously shaking my head, as much for others situations as for my own.
Is there any talk of a legal sep to test the waters?
It is amazing, isn't it? Once I stopped believing that it was all my fault and regained some perspective is when I realized this is craziness, his not mine. Sure I have things that I need to work on and I'm happy to do just that. But, for the most part I know what I brought to our marriage and family and all of my positive characteristics gave him the freedom to build his career as well as pursue outside interests. We also have two boys that are successful, hardworking, polite, etc. and that didn't happen by accident. I've been holding down the home front for years and have enjoyed every minute of it. I've also taken care of myself and participate in quite a few sports (things my H and I did together as well as with our own leagues) now that the boys are older. That's all in addition to completely loving and adoring my H. I seriously don't know what more I could have done. Maybe it's going to take my H getting into another relationship before he realizes what he walked away from. Maybe my H needs more drama than I could provide. Who knows....
Golf mom, just caught up on your thread and can offer no magic bullet. I can only tell you I am going through the same thing. I hope you find some comfort in knowing that you are not alone and you are not crazy. This is his breakdown.
Stall for as long as possible. You never know what made him snap into the breakdown and you never know what will lead him to snap back. Check out the Laura Munson book, this isnt the season you think it is
What's today going to bring? More madness? More craziness? Does anyone else feel that way? I approach each day with apprehension rather than anticipation. Even though I'm feeling pretty good I fear any contact with my H because it's always about something that he wants. Friday he stated again that he wants a divorce. I said that I would not stand in his way, but that he needed to hire an attorney and file. So is this going to be the week that I'm served? His actions don't hurt me much anymore, but I'm clearly dealing with trauma. I wish he would just go away and let me get my life somewhat settled. He just has no idea how much I'm taking care of logistically. While he sits in his studio apartment and goes to a cushy job that he's had for 15 years I'm raising two kids, maintaining a house, paying bills, working on-call, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. I love my kids and I'm so grateful for all that I have. I would just like some time to adjust to my new life before I have to deal with the finality of my marriage.
Some mlcers are in such a hurry to divorce because they think that we and the relationship are the problems that are making them soooo unhappy w/their lives. They are looking for the illusive happiness, but don't want to do the work that goes along w/it. They will talk about divorce quite often until the point that you want to strangle them. Those who are rushing towards divorce will only get so far and then drag their feet and not do the work. When they talk about it all of the time, they are hoping that the lbs will file and do all of the necessary work...just keep in mind, and learn a lesson that I learned, if you stall, it will cost you more $$$ in the long run because your lawyer will be going back and forth w/his over the most trival stuff.
They do not care about us or the family and what we are going through. They do not care if you scraping the bottom of the barrel for money to pay bills or digging deep enough for more energy to deal w/the family, etc. This journey is all about them and what they feel that they are entitled to. So, what do you do? You take care of you first, and then your children and the finances. Do not rely on them for anything and above all keep your expectations at zero. You are now going to have to look at your situation as a business arrangement because you are going to have to protect your assets and make sure you are not screwed over along the way.
I'm very sorry you are here, but you are now part of our family and here to listen and offer advice whenever we can.
pretty good assessment of the situation by snodderly. What he has described is pretty much what I am going through now, except that my w has been uniformly pleasant and we are not using lawyers. But the part about it being all about them and what they feel they are entitled to because of the perceived harshness of their life is right on. They may feel bad about what they are doing(at least in some moments of enlightened thinking), but they MUST have the d in order to satisfy their needs.
Our only hope,(assuming we dont want the d) is to take the high road, protect ourselves, and wait for the storm to blow over, if it ever does.
Snodderly, you couldn’t be more on the mark. My H was all over the D word when he dropped the first bomb two months prior of his walking out. He was in touch with a realtor to help him find an apartment; he sent an email to me just after Valentine’s Day saying we need to sell the house, talk to our D4, blah, blah; and it’s been quiet for several weeks now. H continues to make the astronomical mortgage payments on our house which he doesn’t live in. H walked out almost three months ago, and there is only silence.
I am keeping an eye on the finances to ensure some security is in place. I don’t need my credit to go down the toilet with my M, if that’s where H puts it. Right now, my plan is to keep quiet and see what happens. H is saving money by living with the OW. I am waiting for him to tell me where he lives at some point (I already know but we’ll keep that a “secret” in the DB family.) I will be dammed if H thinks our D4 will visit him where he is “shacking up.” Oh no, that is when I set limits and boundaries for my Child38, aka H. If H wants to be a child then he needs no part in parenting.
Golf Mom, hang in there. I have been at DBing for a very short time compared to our DB family. You really do have to take one day at a time. The fact that you are being responsible, taking care of yourself and the kids everyday is you being stronger. You will see sooner than you realize that you are in control and always have been. Unless you are dealing with a financial mastermind, the WAS is playing out an adventure that usually ends in tragedy, it is a psychological version of Russian Roulette.
There is more for all of us in this world.
I was just offered a really good full time job a few hours ago. Considering I have been a SAHM for 15 years this is a big deal. I will easily be able to pay the mortgage. H will give me the house if I can qualify to refinance into my name alone. The money won't be a problem, but lack of work history might be. In any event, I now feel like I'm in control of my life and I can provide for me and my kids should my H quit his job, etc. So far he's given me enough income to pay the bills, but I know the more he detaches the tide will change.
gm,
Strike while the iron is hot...if your h is willing to give you the home, get it in writing now. Why? The longer they are in crisis and the further they down the yellow brick road, they will change their minds. Do it while he is in the early stage, while he may still feel a little bit guilty for what he is doing to you and your family.
If you think the job is a good one, accept it. As for work history, you will have your current job to refer to for the history part, especially if it is a full time position.
Thanks, snodderly. Believe me, my H could care less where the kids and I live. He forced me to list our house back in January because he doesn't want the mortgage anymore and since he moved out on a whim we are not in a position to run two households indefinitely. And, get this, he wants to buy his own place soon. So, like this whole crazy mess, this is all about him. As long as he has a roof over his head he doesn't care that the kids and I will need to move. I did accept the job today so that will give me options. For now I've unlisted the house per my attorney. I need a settlement before I can look into buying the house or relisting it and that is a ways down the road. My H thinks this all needs to be done as quick as possible. I just don't know this person anymore. The man I knew wouldn't have wanted to be away from his kids for a day and would have done anything for them. The man he has become has no relationship with his kids (he's trying, but they're angry) and doesn't even care about something as basic as housing.
I am very sorry you are going through this.
The crazy talk is very amazing, isn't it?
I just got done washing our cars. I washed his because I was thinking about which one I want to keep. So I was carefully inspecting it, trying it on for size.
And for some odd reason a line from a song came in my head. It was a country song, where she says: "I'm a page you have turned, I'm no longer your concern."
And boy did that make me think, that is what they think. They are so done.
My H was telling me he would just sell the house for the payoff and not care if we got any money, because he can go earn more. WOW! I didn't tell him that since my name is on the mortgage and the title he can't sell it without my signature.
And I sure hope he earns more money, and even more so I hope he doesn't have a stroke when the judge tells him what part of "His" money I will get for however many years I get money for.
But yes, they sure don't think about us. It is all about them!
Wow golf mom our relationship dates are so similar.
I was married 19 and I thought too in November that we had been better than ever....boy was I wrong.
We should talk!
I'll be checking back on you.
Luv
My H sent me a long text today threatening to stop paying the mortgage if I didn't let the realtor start showing the house again. I was stalling since I felt pretty confident that I was going to get a job that would enable me to pay the mortgage. Well, yesterday I did get the job that I wanted after two longs months of jumping through hoops to get it. I called H today and asked him to stop sending me threatening texts and emails regarding the house. When he threw out that he wasn't going to pay the mortgage indefinitely I said that's fine, I can pay it since I just got a really good job. Silence! Then, I'm really happy for you, blah, blah. That should get his mind spinning. A few minutes prior he stated that he was tired of scraping by. Well, he should have thought about all of that before he abruptly left. I've asked him to give me time to get settled into my job and create a new life for me and the boys. I can't take time off work to deal with the divorce that he wants. I've told him that I'm done talking about our relationship, so I'm not standing in his way. I just need to take care of one thing at a time. I'll be very curious to see if he still files for divorce or if he'll give me the time I am asking for (and the time he needs also, he just doesn't know it). I couldn't really tell what he was thinking when we hung up.
gm,
Strike while the iron is hot...if your h is willing to give you the home, get it in writing now.
Why?
The longer they are in crisis and the further they down the yellow brick road, they will change their minds.
Do it while he is in the early stage, while he may still feel a little bit guilty for what he is doing to you and your family.
This is such good advice, the longer you wait the worse it will get.
I'm really stressed about my housing situation. My H has no problem giving me the house and will put it in writing, but he wants his name off the loan. Since I'm just starting a new job and there isn't a D settlement (he hasn't filed yet) it is unlikely that I will qualify for a loan right now. It's so frustrating since I can pay the current mortgage. I would like to refinance, however, since I would save a ton. I just can't believe that after 19 years of marriage he could be such a jerk, especially where the kids are concerned. We have been in our house for 15 years and it's the only home my kids have ever known. Also, I'm close with a lot of my neighbors and they are going to help get my kids to and from school when I start my job next week. My attorney suggested that we go to a mediator over this, but I can't take time off work to deal with it. I'm just praying that over the next few months he decides to work with me and not against me (a long shot, I know). I shouldn't be penalized for being a SAHM or because my H wants out. I swear, if he forces the issue and I have to sell the house and move I will never have anything to do with him again. How foolish he would be to burn his bridges with me. Considering I will have the majority of his income plus my own salary he may need my help some day.
I'm not a lawyer. I don't even play one on the internet. But it seems to me that your husband wants something and you want something. He wants off the house note. You want the house. The question is one of timing.
The thing about negotiation is that you can negotiate with any rational person on the planet. Really. It's easy.
It's not possible with an irrational person. Believe me
But what you can do is make the offer to remove him from the deed contingent on his payments, his settlement, etc. Somebody has to go first and in this case you are suggesting it is him. When you sign the agreement ask your lawyer about putting in wording to the effect that you'll take him of the note within 12 months of the divorce settlement. His laywer may balk at that and require that you show the ability to get a refinance. What you are after is to buy time while you can get some work history behind you.
Fight for your house. Whatever it takes, it will be worth it down the road. It's not the end of the world if you can't but it's important to you and the kids.
Your Husband won't be any help. You'll have to coordinate around him regardless of his mood swings.
The trick is to get the time and to do things regardless of your anger or how he reacts.
Be careful of emotion when it comes to negotiation. I've been where you are and kept the house. (I wasn't a stay at home parent though; she was before she left.) But staying away from the emotion helped in the long run. I ended up having the house on the market for a year with no reasonable offers. I was not willing to drop the price by much, but it bought me time. A year while we were both on the hook
AJ
The advice on this topic has been right on. I kept my house and worked through the lawyer to do so. My ex wanted to get rid of the thing as soon as possible. He now spews about how he should have never let it go and what a mistake it was for him to do so. I had to get his name off the loan 6 months after the divorce. So I refinanced at that time. My ex thought that he would eventually recover the house because I would not be able to keep the yard up or pay the mortgage. He was wrong and is livid about that to this day. I know you are in a lot of pain regarding how your H is treating you. Look at everything right now as a business arrangement. Protect yourself and know that he will not be returning to planet earth for a good long time.
Thank you for all the replies. It's been a sad day. My husband texted me and told me that he filed for divorce and that I would be served soon. Then he followed up by saying that it's a long process and we can always withdraw the papers if he changes his mind and I'm receptive. Is this typical of an MLCer? I knew it was coming, but it still hurts. I just want to know why the boys and I aren't worth fighting for. On a good note, he agreed to unlisted the house and promptly called the realtor. He said he will work with me so that I can refinance in my name alone or we will refi together with the agreement that only I will decide if and when I want to sell in the future. He then said "I hope you don't screw me because I only want the best for you and the boys." Really??? I'm so confused by this. Is this just guilt talking? I will have my attorney draw up an agreement ASAP before he changes his mind. I'm so relieved since I love my home and my support network is here. I know we're at the end of the road, but I still find myself hoping for a miracle.
Yes this is totally natural, but forget about mlc for a second.
"if he changes his mind"
See this is where you have to change that perception. You can't have him hold the power and control over you. You'll find out that once he discovers that he can't lord over you, he will start to break.
Get yourself strong and empowered. No man will have power over you and your life. You are the one whom he should be kneeling to. Get to that point of not giving a cr*p about him any more and you'll see his attitude change.
Hi Golf Mom,
I am so sorry to hear this has happened. Be grateful he had the courage to tell you what he did and the papers would be served to you. My stbx acted like my best friend I hadn't seen in years, even slept with me once and didn't even tell me the papers were coming, which he knew for 2 months they were coming. His excuse? Well he filed in the heat of the moment!
Yes this is a very long process. I think it's encouraging that he's said you can always withdraw the papers if he changes his mind and you're receptive. He's probably just trying to strike while the iron is hot, so to say, or WHILE HE STILL HAS HIS NERVE TO DO SO.
What he said is confusing but I would say typical projection... don't screw him because he wants what's best for you and the boys? What does he consider best for you and the boys? Is that a threat of some sort? If you don't cooperate he won't cooperate back? I don't like that statement he said.
Remember...he wants this divorce. And when there's divorce there are always consequences, and it's not a bed of roses for the WAS once they really get into the REALITY OF DIVORCE. I would stand firm in what you're entitled to by LAW..... spousal support for starters. This is where they can start to lose their minds and mega spew will come hurtling at you 100 mph. Especially when you stand your ground and your voice be heard with a good attorney that will back you up.
I look at Divorce differently now. The actual act of Divorce is a legal unbinding you from another person, to a certain extent, yet a legal business contract that mainly re binds you financially when child support and spousal support is considered. The actual RELATIONSHIP between two people during and post divorce is a whole new ball of wax.
Miracles happen every day and I firmly believe in them. The thing is, miracles happen in their own time, not ours. Sometimes the miracles we want or think we want aren't the ones we really need. Or we get what we pray for but we overlook some serious reality and reprecussions on the way too. I know every miracle I've seriously prayed for with my husband and family has actually come to fruition, but just NEVER in the way I thought it would be or wanted it to be.
I prayed for the oppurtunity for my husband and I to find ourselves and our happiness, and our way back to one another someday. I sure as hell didn't think it would end up through this though. Right now we're on our paths to find ourselves and happiness. It leading back to one another and stopping the divorce is not going to happen in my case.
Golf Mom,
This is very typical lanaguage of a mlcer. Don't trust one word that comes out of his mouth. Run, do not walk to your lawyer and have him/her draw up the paperwork as soon as possible concerning the house.
As for the comment about you screwing him over...I hate to say this, but he said that so that you will play nice during the proceedings. GM, you can't play nice now that he's tossed the gauntlet down. It is no longer a "martial relationship", but a "business relationship". You will need to ensure that you get everything that you and your children are entitled to. Do not accept smaller child support payments, do not agree to take on all of the joint debt. Any debt that he incurred, he will be responsible for. Also, set your boundaries early for visitation and stick to them. Any changes to the schedule should be discussed at least 2-3 days in advance, not last minute. One of the things that they like to do is just walk into your residence, don't allow this. Have him knock or ring the bell as this is now your home, not his.
GM, it's going to get worse before it gets better and that's why we are all here to support you. You are going to have to develop a very thick skin because he's going to say and do things that you never imagined. Why? Because once your lawyer begins advising/protecting you, your h is not going to be happy w/the consequences of his actions. Money is the key and when it hits them that they have to dish out a lot of money, they get ugly. Money is a status symbol to them and they want to keep it all and not share it w/you or the children. Do not expect him to own up to his responsibilities and above all else, keep your expectations a zero. This man is no longer your friend right now.
Hang in there. We are here to support you any way that we can.
Golf Mom and Snodderly!
Im just right behind you in posts agreeing with everything..LOl.
Golf Mom, Snodderly is right on target. I know this because I just went through all of it in regards to divorce.
Everything she said is true. One thing I strongly agree with is get that visitation schedule and boundaries down and stick to them. I didn't do that at first and it cause me more frustration and issues down the road.
Think of it this way. If divorce is what he wants, then fine! GAME ON! But you're sticking to the rules, and your attorney is there to back you up all the way.
Honestly I think the MLCer needs this to wake up a bit to reality. I think it woke mine up a bit.
Thank you for all of the advice and wisdom. I must sound like a broken record, but I'm really having a hard time accepting that this is my life. Ironically, my husband doesn't seem to care about the money. He actually has offered to pay more than required by law. Yet one of the reasons he said he has been so unhappy is due to our lack of money. So what do I make of that? I guess I was also hoping that once I was employed he would slow everything down and re-think his decision. I still don't know if there is someone else in the picture. He has denied that. When he left his first wife 25 years ago there was no OW. They were having financial trouble due to a job loss and he suddenly decided to leave her on Christmas Eve (he left me in December also). Their marriage was also good, except for the finances. In the last year he old me that our marriage was perfect except for the finances. He clearly has a money trigger, especially at Christmas time. I've seen it every year around the holidays. BTW, after his wife filed for divorce and he moved 3000 miles away he called her wanting to reconcile, but she said it was too late. I just don't get this. He's going to have very little money and between support payments and my new salary I'm going to be fine. So is money really a problem for him or an excuse for whatever else is going on between his ears?
Is there somebody else in the picture? Who knows? Really doesn't matter though - he is trying to get you to play by his rules.
Lawyers will tell you to try and be friendly. That's good advice, but it takes two. Be friendly, but firm.
Based on what he said, you are clear to do what you need to do. He actually gave you permission! Be nice, but be firm.
If he doesn't like the agreement, he can choose to not agree to it. But if you let him influence your decisions, you will find later that he is very selfish and has no regard to you or your well-being.
Rule of thumb - don't commit to something that you'll later regret. Look past the here and now and look down the road. Plan for the worst and hope for the best.
Remember always that this is what he wants. You must assume that he is not somebody you know nor can trust. You must assume he will manipulate you and later justify it in his mind (and to others) that you deserved it or were stupid or whatever.
Keep the emotion out of it. That's not easy, but it wasn't your choice in the first place. Don't play by his or anyone else's rules. You are in it to win it, so to speak.
He can pull the plug whenever he so chooses. Assuming you agree at the time if that happens. It likely won't and you have to operate with that in mind. At least, you would be well advised to take that approach.
He wants a divorce and you have no say in that. He feels guilt, but that will turn to anger (and may already have.)
Follow your lawyers advice and encourage your lawyer to go for as much as possible. Be alert to timing of issues. Tell your ex nothing about the conversations and let him find out from his lawyer what you are asking for. That's what he asked for and that's what he'll give to you regardless of how nice he is "acting" right now.
The act is sometimes just to make themselves feel better. In fact, if he continues to be angry (and he likely will) then you can use that. I suggest you do so.
Remember, you didn't ask for this. You won't win anything. You are trying to get what you are entitled do because of his decisions.
He will spew, blame, etc. He'll do that to everyone but himself. Stand firm, GM. Who knows? It might get him to wake up to what he's doing and you can always give something back later if you feel like it and agree to it
AJ
Hi GM
The others are right, divorce needs to be a contract, a business
The MLCer is no longer the person we knew and lived with..
They will get mad during the process, Mine did
This D seemed like it came fairly fast, so you have not had much time to deal with it
Just remember to take care of yourself.. eat, sleep, rest, talk to trusted people..it helps to have support or a therapist to guide us ect..
Most of us have come through it well and probably much better than be4
Do not trust him anymore..he is a different man..seems weird but they change in an instant into a total stranger
do not belive anything he says w
some times we get glimples of the old H,and it gets confusing, but they are glimpses only..it is a long journet and last a long time for most
Keep posting and good luck with the job
Peace
It is a long journey and we need to take care of oursleves
Hey Golf Mom,
I wanted to thank you for posting that link. I went to it and that's something I really needed to hear.
I have Jed Diamonds Irritable Male Syndrome book. He went through Irritable Male Syndrome and it caused some big problems in his marriage. And he's a psychologist!
This really helps me to understand where things did start to go wrong in my marriage, and it's just as I suspected. He started feeling very neglected and abandoned when my attention got diverted away from him.
I spent the day planting flowers, sprucing up the front porch and, in general, nesting in my house. Thinking that I was going to have to move was traumatic for me. It's nice feeling attached to my house and, once again, breathing life into it. I've always enjoyed creating a nice home for my family and was missing it. I'm really going to focus on my life with my boys and not on the pending divorce. It's definitely a sad time, but I don't want to waste any more of my days wondering what happened and what, if anything, I could have done differently. That's what my H should be doing while he sits in his little studio apartment without his family.
This afternoon I feel full of rage. I am so pissed that my H ever thought is was ok to just up and leave us without any plans in place. Dealing with the trauma of this is hard enough, but I'm feeling overwhelmed by everything that's on my plate. It's not that I can't do all of this on my own, but when you commit to having children you don't get to just decide to leave them one day.
Hi Golf Mom,
Just wanting to let you know I UNDERSTAND THE RAGE! My experience and advice....Just roll with it. Let it wash over you, feel the rage, and it will subside. The waves tend to get less intense as time goes by. I still go through them.
The rugs have been pulled out from under us and our heads are spinning. WE had no choice in this. They made this choice for us, a choice we didn't want at all! This is a life changing choice. Everything we've known for many years is now completely changed, and did we have a say so in it? No.
Believe me it's worth a pout...or two! LOL.
What's helping me is to really learn about what's going on in these heads of the MLCers or WAS. I suggest getting some of Jed Diamonds books. That article you posted really got me thinking and then I picked up my Irritable Male Syndrome book again, and have read some really good stuff. It's even better the second time around, because the first time I read it I was so panicked not much really stuck. This time Im grasping it alot better and having alot more insight.
Im am so sorry about the rage but it's just part of it all. Don't fight it, just let it come. It sound corny but try and make friends with the bad emotions. Dig deep. Aside from the obvious search for what really is pushing buttons.
Kimmerz,
Thanks so much for the replies. I'm glad that you found the article helpful. I have read so much over the last four months regarding abandonment, marriage, MLC and it's really helped me get where I am. I've learned a lot about myself and know I could have been happier if I could have asked for what I needed. Although, I really wonder if my H is capable of truly giving to another person. I read an excellent book, Receiving Love, which helped me undertand that when people aren't able to receive they can't give. My H grew up in a state of constant turmoil due to major family dysfunction. His needs weren't met, he was never heard, he was abused, etc. This all led to low self-esteem and low self worth. I also think he is clinically depressed as nothing we ever did, including vacations, ever brought any true excitement or joy in him. I use to just think he just had a very even temperament, but I see it differently now. The article I posted also helped me realize that due to his lack of bonding and mothering he is in desperate need of it now. He has so many deep wounds and a thick protectIve barrier which will keep him from feeling anymore than the initial euphoric high from a new relationship. After that dies down then the problems will start. Even though my H was very kind he wasn't emotionally available. I kept us going all these years. As our kids got older and I started creating more of life for myself he may have starting feeling like less of a priority. This might be why he said "You're a wonderful person to everyone but me." Isn't that typical MLC talk? I know I sound like a want-to-be therapist, but I'm just trying to make sense of this senseless situation.
golf mom,
The description of your h's home life is exactly why he's in crisis. He's trying to find himself and understand why he was never validated or treated the way that he should have been as a child. His comment about "you are a wonderful person to everyone but me" speaks of both abandonment and lack of validation...however, I do not think he's aiming the arrow at you, but he is projecting his feelings on to you from his past.
Had your h talked to you over the years about how he felt and what was going on w/him, you might have been better able to understand why he's running. However, you still would not have been able to stop his train from leaving the station because there are a lot of unanswered questions that he needs to seek the answers to and you were not a part of his life at that time.
You have a very good handle on what is going on...just leave him alone, if he should want to talk, listen, do not offer quick fixes and do not tell him he is in crisis. They don't want us to diagnose them or tell them what to do. His projections will sometimes make you think you didn't do something that you should have done...it's just projections. They will bring up things that happened years ago and you have to just listen and then let it go. You have to be the one to determine whether your relationship w/him was live or memorex. I would venture to say it was live...so with that being said, you know what your relatiionship was w/him and I would not doubt myself one minute. You did everything you could to be the best wife, lover, mother, friend and companion to him. This journey is all about him and what needs to be repaired within himself.
I would love feedback on this text that I received. I paraphrased it last week, but thought it would be better to state it exactly. I don't know why it's important to get interpretation. Please bear with me as I work on understanding this.
"I don't want you to be blindsided, but I did start the legal process and you will get papers soon. The process takes several months and nothing would ever be final until then should my feelings change and you were still receptive, but I did not want to just continue to wait to even begin a process that I wanted to pursue at this time and is a lengthy one. I do not expect you to understand, but I just wanted you to know in advance out of respect, as odd as that may sound."
golf mom,
Here is my interpretation and I could be off the wall on this.
He wants you to know up front that he's filed and out of courtesy to you, wants you to know that you'll be receiving the papers soon. I also think he knows that he better let you know because he doesn't know how you will react if you were to receive them and not know about them. He doesn't want "mom" to go off the rails and punish him, etc.
As for his feelings changing, I wouldn't bet on it. Sounds to me like he wants to play the Mr. Nice guy role and say to others and also convince himself and others that he's been a great guy by advising you. I also think in another way, he wants to keep his toes in both pools just in case his fantasy life doesn't work out, he can return to you.
Don't put too much faith into this email...it's still all about him and most certainly he's not looking out for you.
Like many MLC your H wants to leave his family but doesnt want to be called a jerk. Look at what a good guy he is notifying you that you are going to get served. He is such a good guy to tell you before you get the papers. Have you checked out No More Mr Nice Guy. Similar concepts to the irriatable man syndrome just more specific.
I have been DBing since August and not much has changed in my sitch. It has become very clear that my H is having a MLC and I think their is very little we can do to make it better. But as someone said their is plenty we can do to make it worse.
Hang in there and pray for him.
Thank you. That's kind of what I thought. I didn't even acknowledge his apparent act of kindness or his comment about feelings changing. I just replied that I wish he would have waited since I'm starting a new job and can't take time off for mediation, court dates. He said I wouldn't need to since there are no major issues. I immediately brought up the house and said that I wouldn't back down. That's when he said that he would work with me, etc. I haven't brought up our relationship and his apparent crisis in a few weeks since I've learned that it is pursuing and controlling behavior. When he initiates communication I respond simply and am starting to create boundaries. The next time he contacts me (usually via text) I'm going to ask him to save all of his questions and contact me once a week. Does that sound reasonable? I really need to distance myself from him and I don't like seeing his name pop up on my phone throughout the week. It makes it hard to remain focused on me and the boys. I also feel like he hasn't really experienced life without us since he contacts me whenever he wants and maybe assumes that I'm waiting for any word from him.
Hi Golf Mom,
I wanted to say that your sitch is seeming more and more similar to mine, in regards to a few details you're experiencing and how he's acting. You have a much better grip on this than I did 4 months after BD. What you've already come to understand and grasp, Im just now getting. I was so confused and in such a fog for so long.
At any rate I wanted to say that setting that boundary of him not contacting you but once a week is EXCELLENT! This is how I've felt with my stbx and should've done from the beginning. It was impossible for me to move on, start detatchment and sort my feelings out with him texting me and trying to be buddies all the time.
Good luck~!
Thank you, Kimmerz. Thanks to all of the wisdom I've received here and the books that I've read I learn and understand more everyday. I just wish I could mend my broken heart. I can't help but wish my family could be put back together. My kids are hurting. I'm hurting. I miss being truly happy. I feel pretty good some days, but others I'm on the verge of tears and have to sneak off and let them flow. I'm also dealing with the trauma of being abruptly left. I had no idea that anything was wrong and felt so secure in my marriage. I can't believe how well my H hid his unhappiness. I can't imagine a person being in such turmoil that they leave in an instant. I will never forget how it felt to find a letter from by H stating that he wanted an immediate separation and realizing that he was gone. I catch myself hoping for a future reconciliation knowing the odds are so low. Without some hope my life feels empty and scary.
Hi Golf Mom. I'm sorry you are feeling this way, but can I offer a few suggestions?
I catch myself hoping for a future reconciliation knowing the odds are so low. Without some hope my life feels empty and scary.
What are you scared of exactly?
As for hope, of course you do. We all have those moments. We all want Lassie to come home, right?
More specifically, we all want a happy ending. What we think of as a happy ending is for our spouse to have an epiphany and come running back. Reality is that a happy ending might not be that. If you look in the archives at people who's spouses have come home, and look years later, you find that some come back but it's not real nor lasting. It's temporary, which to me would be worse.
For those that have a happy ending, they have made a happy ending. That happiness doesn't always include the current spouse.
For me, if I'm honest, I think I wanted my family back more than my spouse. Did I love my spouse? Yes. Very much so and in some ways still do. I care at least, that she's healthy and ok. Do I want her back? No. Why? Because I don't want to be married to somebody that treats me that way. I don't even want to talk to her. It started that I didn't want to talk to her for my sake. She wanted to talk on her terms and I wasn't willing. I wasn't willing to be part of the facade. Honesty or nothing (within reason of course) was the approach I live my life by. I still do.
Mine is hateful. Degrading and many other characteristics I never want to be part of. If I'm honest about the timelines, that started long before she "surprised" me and left blaming me for everything. That hasn't stopped and I know I cannot be happy around somebody like that. I cannot save her
Figure out what you are really scared of, GM. Figure out why the feelings of emptiness. Face them realistically.
Your husband made his choices and still is. That's real. Wanting him back may be more about wanting back what you had or having your family back together. To stop the pain your kids feel. There may be other ways to help them, right?
You cannot control him. You cannot stop him. You cannot change history.
You can make peace with reality and peace with the past. You may be able to much better help your kids with this once you have made your peace.
You can do this without his interaction. He will actually make that harder, but it's not impossible.
I agree with Snodderly above about the text based on my own experience and experiences I've read on this board and others. Encourage him to be respectful at all times. Be respectful but firm. And I agree with Kimmerz about limiting the conversation to 1x week for your own sake.
Be you and let him figure himself out. You cannot help him with this.
AJ
Thank you, AJM. I keep wondering why this is so hard to except. It's been four months. I guess it's because this was sprung on me and because of what I've learned about MLC. It would be easier if we had fought all the time and we both knew we were better off apart. The kids are struggling with it for the same reason. All they've known is two parents who were affectionate and had a friendship and, poof, it was gone. I started a new job today and all I could think of is how much I wanted to share all of the details with my H because that's what I would have done for the last 23 years. He would have been so proud of me and we would both be excited about the extra money, something that we've missed since I stopped working years ago. I miss the companionship and affection so much. Where are all of the success stories? Do people truly not come out of this and return to the family that loves them? I must sound pathetic. I'm truly more together than I'm sounding right now. I've come a long way since December, but I have a deep sadness. I also feel such a strong connection to my H that I wonder how I will ever fully separate and be open to loving another man.
Hi GM. I'm sorry you are here. I haven't read your entire thread yet, but reading your post above sounds so much like the feelings that I've been through. All I can say is that it does get better. It really does. My XW dropped the bomb on me in October of 2010 and we are now divorced. Do I still have hope? Sometimes I do, but not like I did. It does getter better with time. Time is your friend. Come to this board and post often. The people here are wonderful.
Tad
Hi GM,
These are the longest of days, I feel for you as I go through them myself...like you, I want to share the details, and my W's details, and I miss my best friend...all the advice to GAL and detach is what is holding me together...it is their journey that we were not invited to go with (directly, as we actually are indirectly, leading us into our own journey).
As others have said here, this is a gift of time, to re-construct YOU into what YOU want for YOU the next 20-30 years...they can join us IF/WHEN they have resolved whatever it is that drives them to what they are doing.
Don't worry about being open to loving another person now, just be open to loving YOU and the kids...
I know it is hard to accept that they may not return, and every day is an exercise in uncertainty, wondering....I live there myself.
YOU will be okay, YOU will survive, think of something important to you as a child that is no longer there...remembering it may bring a smile to your face, tinged with sadness, but worth everything you went through during the loss, for the GOOD memories.
With luck, and perseverance, you might get that back, if not you have the memory of something valuable.
There are success stories, and that elderly couple you see walking hand-in-hand? That we so want to be us, and maybe a bit jealous of at this time? They went through tough times to get there...
Sorry about the rambling...you touched a nerve in me to unload some of the unsaid things to my W...
T^2
Hey Golf Mom!
You will feel better. YOU WILL! It is hard.
Remember to be kind to yourself. I don't know where the success stories are. Maybe the success stories are the ones where we make our own happy endings.
Many people have told me to DB and stay with the program. Others say I will know when I have had enough of the MLC crap.
I love my H. But I will tell you not as much as I did before. Each further bit of nonsense is a little bit of ice water on my heart.
Do what you can to continue the GAL stuff. I believe I would have been sucidal without the kind loving support from the folks on this board. First time I've admitted that.......
I am really sorry you are here, but you will make it through, to whatever outcome it is.
Aloha,
Wendy
PS I'm wearing a golf skirt! (I hoped that would make you smile!) I really am!
GM,
I'm with you on this:
"I keep wondering why this is so hard to accept. It's been four months... It would be easier if we had fought all the time and we both knew we were better off apart. The kids are struggling with it for the same reason. All they've known is two parents who were affectionate and had a friendship and, poof, it was gone.
Isn't this just about impossible to deal with? And how come we'd never heard before of this sort of thing happening to people?
And how do we explain what's happened to our friends and acquaintances?
Also the pain of not being able to share things with our Hs:
"all I could think of is how much I wanted to share all of the details with my H because that's what I would have done for the last 23 years. He would have been so proud of me and we would both be excited about the extra money, something that we've missed since I stopped working years ago. I miss the companionship and affection so much."
You don't sound pathetic - you sound just like me.
And yes, the aching question about how to move on from this mess:
" I also feel such a strong connection to my H that I wonder how I will ever fully separate and be open to loving another man".
Presumably the deep sadness that we feel is the cost of true growth...so something has been gained. But its a very painful lesson to learn.
Best,
NLW
You all are so great! Reading your responses is really comforting. It helps a great deal to know there are people out there that truly understand how horrible this is (although I am so sorry that you do). I joined a divorce support group, but have gotten very little out of it since the other members are dealing with very different circumstances. A marriage breakdown due to MLC is unique. The abandonment alone is enough to separate us from the masses that deal with separation and divorce.
My boys are so excited about my new job. My 12 year old said "You spent your day making a better life for us while dad continued to hurt us because he's selfish." He said it, not me.
On another note, my H continues to text the boys routinely even though they want nothing to do with him and don't respond. From his texts it seems that he is experiencing some degree of pain where they are concerned. I wonder when he is just going to give up and realize that they (at least for now) will not except him as a father outside of our home. They feel cheated and won't settle for less than what they want. My son actually told him to be a man of character. Does my H really believe that his search for "happiness" is worth losing everything, including his kids?
I was served with divorce papers about 30 minutes ago. I feel like I've had the wind knocked out of me. I feel that intense pain that I felt at the beginning. I made a big mistake by calling my husband right away. I told him again that I need to pay a retainer for the attorney (I've only paid consultation fees at this point.) He received a large bonus that he hasn't put in the bank. Apparently, he doesn't realize that I will get a large percentage of it. In the meantime, until I get paid from my new job I'm completely dependent on him and he's only depositing enough money for me to pay the bills and that's it. I so wish I would have taken a breath before I called him. I feel like I just gave away my power. I accused him of being selfish and only caring about his own happiness while he blew up the lives of me and the boys. He said it's my fault that they feel the way they do and hung up on me. I just want to hate him!
Sweetie, no matter how you prepare for it, when you are served, it hurts.
It is like you were holding your breath and then someone punched you in the stomach.
Cry for a bit, go in the car and scream, punch a pillow and say a prayer. Whatever you need to do to get to a place of calm.
And do not beat yourself up for calling your h.
Now you know it is not a good idea. He is not hearing you. All he hears is someone getting in the way of this big life he thinks he is going to have.
He is not the man you knew. He is in crisis. He is confused and hurting and in his eyes, the person closest to him must be the reason.
So, you need to think of you right now. And you need to do it without involving him.
Call some attorneys and explain the situation. See if you can put a retainer on a credit card or see if you can borrow from a family member. Think real hard about how to get that money.
Now that he has filed, you are not responsible for any debt he incurs from now on. (check with attorney to be sure).
You need to dig in now. Find your center. The focus has to be on you and your kids. You cannot look to him to help in any way.
It is best to be proactive at this point.
Get to gettin'.
You can do this. You will be ok.
Hey Golf Mom!
Just keep breathing! So sorry to hear this. Make some lists and take actions.
Thinking positive thoughts for you!
Wendy
To make matters worse, because I work for the court I have to disclose any lawsuits that I'm a party to including divorce. So now I have to go in tomorrow and talk to my department manager who just met me two days ago. When I found out about the disclosure requirement I texted my H and asked him to wait to file until I settle into my new job. He said it was too late since the papers were already filed. Well, he lied. The papers were filed today. His response when I brought this up tonight was he didn't see the point in waiting to file and also didn't understand why it mattered whether I had to disclose this now or two months from now. Really??? Maybe because I'd like to keep my personal and professional lives separate and I don't want a new boss to wonder whether I can keep my focus on the job or not. I just can't believe how insensitive he has become. I know, it's all about him and his rush to find happiness. I just want the satisfaction of being able to walk away from him some day. OK, that's really not who I am, but I just want some justice.
GM they are NOT the same people we married. The person you married WOULD be sensitive BUT this is NOT that person.
I too was shocked. I can home for lunch, to my h painting our house. He had taken a break and was on the phone with a friend and told him I was home for lunch and he had to go. I made some funny comment about us having two houses now (one rental)and this would be a good time if we wanted to seperate.....(I was totally kidding and had NO IDEAL that he was about to drop the bomb). He said...."I think i would leave you IF I wanted to". I said ok and laughed. We walked upstairs, his phone rang and I questioned why he didnt answer. He started crying and said he wanted a divorce. Talking about being punched in the stomach. I had the life knocked out of me. No seperation.....wanted a divorce. Three months later he made it happen.
You are NOT alone here. We have all been thru this and we are here for you. Breathe! Now get it together for you and your kids. He is off in outer space and is sadly only thinking of him.
Hang in there, you will be ok I promise!
Renee
I guess my H is going to punish me for our spat on the phone the other night. Basically, I gave him a reality check and he dealt with that by hanging up. He got paid today and even though he has systematically put money in the bank to cover the mortgage and bills he hasn't done it. He continues to traumatized me. After everything else that he's done now I have to worry about how to pay bills. I also need to pay my attorney a retainer so that she can respond to the divorce that he dragged me into. Can I also say, after working all week (forgive me, but I'm not use to this) I'd like a stay-at-home spouse like he had and didn't appreciate. I'm dead tired and emotionally exhausted and I'm faced with kids that need dinner and attention, a house that's in disarray, etc. What happened to my life??? What did I do that was so horrible that I deserved this? I know I will adjust and get through this, but I'm feeling resentful for being put in this situation while my H controls the money (at least for the moment), he only has to take care of himself and he likely has a gf or is at least dating. How would I even do that if I wanted to since I'm raising two kids on my own. I continue to read about MLC just so I can be reminded that my H isn't well otherwise I'd continue to drive myself crazy wondering what I could have done differently.
Hi GM...with MLC, you are dealing with a teenager...at best...as I have learned, so keep those expectations super-low (as in zero).
So, with all your change in circumstances and LIFE...maybe prioritize...
Kids and job...HIGH priority
H's crap...LOW
Attorney...MEDIUM (?? haven't been there myself, so IDK)
House Disarray...LOW
etc, etc...YOU know best for YOU, YOU make your OWN priorities now.
None of us here deserve what we have been given in totality, though we did have some responsibility for the M's demise, and that must be acknowledged and worked through, look at my sitch for what I am taking responsibility for as an example. Man, it was hard to accept that about myself, harder than it was to actually fix myself, in the end. I had to really look at and work that aspect to finally emerge out of victim-mode (but that's just me, who became the LBS out of the blue (as the one who was the provider for the family and SAHM).
You interrupted his perfect plan that HE made without taking into consideration all possible responses from YOU...NOT your fault, he should have taken all possibilities into consideration...but you will get the MLC spew, blow-off, blame, etc, etc.
YOU have taken the first necessary steps to move on without him (job, etc), and he will not be there for a while, if ever. I shy away from saying that, though it is in the realm of possibility, because I am an optimistic person and believe all problems have a solution...I have learned though, that not every problem is my problem to solve via my W's MLC...it is THEIR problem...please get that...at the end of the day, it is THEIR problem. Acknowledge your part, but focus on THE KIDS and YOU.
They are own their own journey, you weren't invited, but you do get your OWN journey...people have said on here to look at this as a gift...a gift of time...to remember, re-invent YOU, to re-learn, re-create YOU...that you may not have received if things remained status-quo.
The advice on this forum does work, YOU have to regain YOU, and accept this reality (as much as it blows chunks), for YOU, and your kids.
Some one here posted the following:
Ever wonder if maybe…..just maybe, you were chosen to deal with this because a greater power knows that inside….. you can handle this?
Let that sink in...
YOU can do this!
T^2
Hi Golf Mom,
Oh I feel for you... I remember when I got served with my papers! At least I got them mailed to me and found them in the mailbox on the way to work.
I wasn't suprised but shocked. I ended up emailing my H when I got the divorce papers because he had the kids with him at the time. It was then I got the explanation as to why he didn't tell me he filed when he did. His email indicated to me ( and I've read it at least 10 times or more) that he made this decision when in the throws of extreme emotion. And as far as he was concerned there was no point in turning back, and he hoped that this would make him happy.
After educating myself so well, I now know he was in the midst of MLC spew when doing this. I also have a strong gut instinct his OW and even his cousin were pumping him up to do it too, but have no solid proof.
Your sitch and H really seems similar to mine. I was a SAHM for 10 years, but did have to go back to work almost 3 years ago due to H losing is good job. It really is tough having to go back to work. For me it was watching my kids be upset I wasn't home all the time and the transition not being easy for them that was the hardest. Also me having to let go of the fantasy that I could still be a SAHM after the kids were in school full time so I could have time for ME..and get my house back into order.
Oh ya, the house in disarray...been there, still doing that, every day! Don't beat yourself up. Get into your new groove, for as long as it takes. For me I have to clean house on weekends. I am so busy, and then so tired from work, I do what needs to be done, or not, and just take it one day at a time.
In regards to how you feel about your relationship with your husband, well every emotion and question you're having is exactly what I've felt!! I for one was relieved to see someone else post it! Now I don't feel so ...odd.
Missing the "friend" in your husband, and wanting to come home and tell him about your day...but now you can't. Pretty lonesome isn't it?
The money being controlled by him.... yes Im still dealing with that too. I hate having to constantly remind him he needs to pay me...but when the divorce is final that will be a relief. He will pay through the state and if he is late with them, then they can haggle with him, not me.
The deep connection you feel with him and wondering how on earth will you ever even want to connect with another man? Or would you ever have that with another man?
You know I think what is the hardest for us LBS and even SAHM's, is think of how our identity has been built up around our marriages, family unit, and how we've managed it all? This was our life for many, many years. I don't know about you, but for me I wouldn't have traded my SAHM years for anything in the world. Infact I would've been content to stay that way till my kids were grown and on to college.
I ran into an old mutual friend a couple months back at the grocery store. She and her boyfriend were so sad to hear that H and I split...as many other people have been too. She said something to me that really rings a bell with me. She said:
"We all grow in different ways in our lives. But sometimes, unfortuneatly...we just don't grow together".
Now at first I resented that comment, but I now understand why I did. See, this MLC crap and choices my H has made does NOT represent growth to me. But see this is because Im taking it at extreme face value here and not digging as near as deep as this will run for him eventually, and of course myself. I was not seeing the bigger picture.
For me, I feel that the biggest growth comes from making the conscious choice to dig yourself out of life's relentless chaos. Some or alot of this chaos is created by ourselves. Perhaps the MLcer is creating a huge scenario of chaos for them to learn many lessons.
To us we can't even fathom what they've done, or their thought patterns. It makes no sense, and is completely irrational. WE never would go about issues in the marriage this way. We can't imagine ever being so hurtful and deceitful to another person. WE have empathy.
Being and LBS is a journey in itself, and as painful it is, the most complete head on course in life we could ever take. We make the choice to roll our sleeves up and do the work that needs to be done. We keep at it. Day after day.
The MLCer, well it looks like they're off in tra la la boom dee ay land. And they are temporarily because many of the things they do are just bandaids or distractions from what's really lying beneath and grinding on them from deep inside. They just dont' know it. But eventually, depending on how good they are at running, it will catch up to them.
Now imagine what it's going to feel like when they come to grips and realization of the pain they caused during this? And it all in vain?
Now, that person I don't EVER WANT TO BE.
I think a lot of times in MLC it's not so much a case of a couple growing apart, but the MLCer regressing rather than doing the work to grow and deal with life on life's terms. Sometimes going in different direction is just running away.
I agree Andabelle! I agree with you 100%
I think a lot of times in MLC it's not so much a case of a couple growing apart, but the MLCer regressing rather than doing the work to grow and deal with life on life's terms. Sometimes going in different direction is just running away.
Yes, Very True! I figured out that my changes from 3 years ago were a large part of his MLC.
Thank you so much for all of the replies. After a hectic week it was nice to be with my kids, work in the yard and just basically do everyday things. While I was out running errands I couldn't help but notice all of the couples holding hands (lots of older people who probably have had their struggles, but still feel connected) and dads out with their kids. The boys and I are really missing the connection that we had and can't understand what my H has gained by his choice to leave. I guess it's not for us to understand, but rather except. I had to text my H today re money. I hate having to do that! We got it sorted out without too much drama, including him paying my attorney's retainer. However, he did say that all of the expenses will have to be calculated by our attorneys and divided. I texted back that I'm not paying for a divorce that I don't want (what a waste of money!). Not surprising, I didn't get a response. I also told him that I wanted limited contact with him since most communication can and should go through my attorney. I think he will respect that since he only contacts me about finances and house matters. I've read that many MLCers contact the LBS quite a bit, but mine hasn't.
My H continues to contact the boys, but they don't respond. They get that him wanting to see them is more about his needs then theirs. What they need is their family back together and he doesn't. When he has talked to them it's all his justication for why he had to leave. His latest text started with "I hope you can find it in your heart...." Again, all about what he needs from them. He hasn't said anything that indicates that he really wants to hear how they feel.
So I keep going back to what has he gained by all of this? He lives in a tiny studio apartment in a bad neighborhood, has the same job (good, but not satisfying), doesn't see his kids and has less money since he is supporting us. Is that life really better? I would have thought that after awhile he would have missed his life with us, but I guess not. It's almost like he feels compelled to follow through with his plan which includes divorce. I've read tons of information on MLC and it's still so unbelievable to me.
I'm continuing to work on detaching. Since I'm so busy I get through my day pretty easily. However, I continue to struggle with wanting to share my day with him. I am also still wearing my wedding ring. I just need to feel like I belong to somebody even though I know I don't. My ring means something to me still. I know it's a sham, but I just can't take it off. I can't except that my marriage is over even though I've been forced to go through the steps of divorce. I truly know the divorce won't be called off. Six months just isn't enough time for the MLC journey. For me, the best thing is NC. Life seems pretty normal until I have to deal with my H. Then all of the hurt, anger and loneliness comes back. Maybe in between contacts with him I'm in denial. I wish I knew how he spent his days and what goes through his mind. Does he feel happy, relieved, lonely, depressed? I don't know why I care. Clearly I'm not quite detached. Why am I struggling with this? I know my feelings say more about me and the work I need to do on myself.
Hi Golf Mom,
You're doing so well, you really are. You are still walking forward, not missing a beat and carrying on.
I know it's got to feel miserable, but you're still marching on. That's what I've been doing for a year.
I wanted to let you know that I too do pretty well up until I have to deal with stbx as well. What you're feeling is normal and expected. And yes all the hurt, anger, and resentment coming back is normal and I go through it too. Im really having a hard time of it this week. If I have a week where I have alot of contact with him, Im all out of sorts. Depending on what the contact is about and how much it is, it can take me 2 - 7 days to get back on track. And then...here he comes again. I've been working on forgiveness, but when I have to deal with him alot it's nothing but 2 steps forward 3 steps back.
The only way I know how to get to a place where I can really start to get a leg up on forgiveness is to have NC again. So I understand where you are in regards to wanting limited contact with him. Given Im experiencing the same thing, I think it's a good idea.
Thank you, kimmerz! Also, I'm reading the Jed Diamond book that you recommended. It's really helping me better understand what's happening and helps me stay in a place of compassion. I'm so grateful to you and the others for sharing your experience and wisdom with me. Isn't it amazing the time and energy that we put into understanding, excepting and forgiving someone who hasn't a clue as to what's happening to them. I'm praying for healing and happiness for all of us.
Hey there Golf Mom!
You are so right, I never thought about it that way but it's true. All of us have put a tremendous amount of energy into acceptance and forgiveness of someone that's betrayed us and not a clue as to what's really going on with themselves.
I picked up a little book called The healing power of Forgiveness today. As I was reading it, all the sudden I had this burning impression that my stbx had/has been burdened with the inability to forgive all that had happened to him a few years ago. I think that could be the catalyst for his MLC, and partially why he held me ultimately responsible for his happiness/unhappiness. Of course I tried talking to him about this, and I know he listened, but Im not sure just where he arrived as to how he felt about it.
Im glad you're reading the Jed Diamond book. I find it very helpful to get this information from a man himself that's been through it. I also have two great posters on my thread that have really helped me understand a few things from a man's point of view.
For me, understanding = issue resolution = release of anger, and finally forgiveness.
I want to much to let all this anger and resentment go, but I can see Im really going to have to work on it.
So once again Im rolling up my sleeves and getting to work!
It's another sleepless night. I can't believe it's been over four months since I've had a good nights sleep. Finding a remedy is my number one priority this week. Since I've just started a new job I can't take time off for a doctor's appointment (I should have dealt with this before), so I'm going to have to try an over-the-counter sleep aid. I avoid caffeine and alcohol so that's not the problem. I also drink herbal tea in the evening and go to bed around the same time, but I'm still waking up several times a night. Any advice?
When I'm awake during the night I start ruminating. I need to work on stopping this. Another priority this week. Anyway, tonight I realized that one thing that's really bugging me is that when I have texting or verbal contact with my H and I say something that he disagrees with he attacks me by calling me crazy and dillusional. I absolutely hate that! Nothing I ever say is valid unless he agrees. He also accuses me of lying, especially when it comes to the boys and how they feel. This is why NC is important for me. If I don't hear from him then that's one less conversation to ruminate about. I've always been a little slow on the trigger when it comes to defending myself and setting boundaries. This is an area of growth that I've been focusing on and will serve me well once I've mastered it.
Yesterday was difficult. Another holiday spent as a broken family. After a terrible Christmas my boys had low expectations for the day and both were really surprised when they woke up and found Easter baskets. I've always enjoyed putting those together and I know they look forward to them, but they had written them off this year. I could tell how much it meant to them that I did that (even though I insist that they're from the Easter bunny - they enjoy the little boy fantasy even though of course they know the truth). Their gratitude and excitement reminded me how much they really need to be normal kids with as little emphasis as possible on our family situation. I certainly don't want to ignore it, but our day-to-day focus needs to be on living a normal, fulfilling life. After all, they only have one childhood and they've been cheated enough. I recently read The Five Love Languages and want to apply what I learned to my kids so that their "love tanks" stay full.
I'll be so glad when I meet with my attorney again this week. I need to give her the divorce papers and have a long discussion about kids, house and finances. It will feel so good to turn this over to her so that I'm not so worried about it all. I don't want to have anymore communication with my H about any of this unless absolutely necessary. In fact, I'm standing my ground when it comes to NC. There's really nothing for us to discuss. He's not currently seeing the boys (their choice) so we don't need to communicate regarding them. Unless there's an emergency I should be able to keep him out of our lives for awhile. Is that wishful thinking?
When we were driving home from my parents last night my older son and I were having a discussion about my H abandoning us. We both wish he could be legally punished for it, at least sanctioned. What we've experienced, including the continuing trauma is criminal. When someone is legally bound to another person, especially children, they should not be allowed to walk away without legal repercussions. In our minds, having to pay support is not enough. My H's acts were ethically, morally and legally wrong. I wish he had to pay damages just like anyone else who causes harm to another person.
Clearly, I have a lot on my mind tonight. Thanks for letting me vent!
Hi GM,
Have been reading your post for a while now. To your question about a sleep remedy, I started to take valerian(herb), along with melatonin right before bed. Took about 2 weeks but finally got my insomnia problem under control, after about 5 months of very little sleep. Try them out befoe you go for a presecription, they wont work overnight, but given time they should. Sorry you are in this predicament, I am a couple of months ahead of you on the time scale.
I am sorry you are going through all of this. The only thing that worked for me at night was Tylenol p.m.. It actually kept me sleeping the whole night. My heart goes out to your boys and the pain they are going through right now. Your Ml'er will eventually suffer the consequences of abandoning a family. It comes very slowly though. Through these consequences sometimes comes pain, and through pain remorse.
The mid lifer will try everything to push your buttons. Don't let him, or feed into this. He wants to put you on the defensive. No contact, walking away, hanging up the phone should be immediate when this happens. They will say the craziest things to get a reaction from you.
He's not currently seeing the boys (their choice) so we don't need to communicate regarding them. Unless there's an emergency I should be able to keep him out of our lives for awhile. Is that wishful thinking?
When we were driving home from my parents last night my older son and I were having a discussion about my H abandoning us. We both wish he could be legally punished for it, at least sanctioned. What we've experienced, including the continuing trauma is criminal.
GM - this is really not a conversation you should be having with your son.
No matter how mad or hurt you are, it's important not to encourage the kids in "choosing" you over him. The more you can help them cultivate some empathy for their dad, the better it will be for them in the long run.
I know, I know - you're thinking why the heck should he get any empathy? But if you can explain to the kids something about MLC and depression, and how sometimes it makes otherwise good people do very uncharacteristic things, it may help them.
Not that you should keep them from expressing themselves - if they want to rail against their dad, it's ok for them to feel they can express themselves. But it's also your job to let them know things are never quite black and white, and that some people crack under the strains of life.
My ex's parents split when he was a teen, his mom was the WAS and the boys didn't speak to her for years and years (one still doesn't, 30 years on). The truth is, she didn't handle things well but she's not a bad person (and her ex is a VERY difficult man) and the BURDEN of not speaking to her had a much bigger weight on the kids, than just having a polite long-distance relationship. So I would encourage the boys to have some kind of contact with their dad, however distant and polite.
Also, remember that the kids need YOU to be their rock. So you need to keep modeling for them what it looks like to be strong and move forward (even if you're not feeling strong) so they can feel safe in their world. The more you talk to them about your hurt, the less safe they feel (because they worry about you too then). Let them know that mom is strong and can handle anything, and that the three of you are still a family.
(Also - be forewarned, at some point they will probably lash out at you - because it's not safe to do so with their father. You just gotta understand that they only do that with the "safe" parent that they trust won't leave them.)
As for your ex - I think it's still most likely that he has an OW or left so he COULD have OW. But the parallels with his first marriage are uncanny. Have you checked a credit report on the two of you? Is it possible that he is hiding something else - like massive credit card debt, or an addiction of some sort?
Also - I recommend going to Dave Ramsey's website and listening to the archives of the radio show - it will motivate you as far as managing your money goes, and listening to it might help your kids see a path to financial security.
www.daveramsey.com (I don't happen to agree with his politics, but the financial approach is dead-on).
kml, I think you may have misinterpreted my post. My boys don't want to see their father because he had used their time together to continue to justify his actions. He went as far as to say that he left because he dislike of me eventually overrode his love for them. Who says that to their kids??? The boys know that I feel strongly that my H is in MLC and I have read information to them which explains it. I have encouraged them to be compassionate toward him even though they are hurt and angry and they know tht I pray for him daily. My boys also know that I am strong (after all, I did land a good job after being a SAHM for15 years so that I could pay the mortgage on our house), but it's OK for them to see me grieving. That does not mean that I am in any way unstable or a poor role model. I am also not going to put up a smoke screen so they think their father is wonderful. He's not. If he wants to be a better father then he alone needs to work on that. It's not up to me. I have my plate full being a single mom.
Golf Mom,
I wanted to let you know I completely can identify and understand what you and your boys are going through in regards to abandonment, resentment, and anger.
Not everyone is going to agree with my opinion on this, and that's ok. But my opinion is you have to handle your sitch with your children accordingly and how you know your children. You know your children and their personalities and how they express their emotions. Be honest with them.
See I felt it was very important my kids have a voice during all of this and their feelings be heard. I chose to tell the kids as much of the truth that I could without elaborating on the horrible details (spew) and drama.
What I do is I talk to them objectively. They've expressed anger and resentment about their dad. I let them talk freely, and even asked them some questions to help them open up a bit. I was honest with them and told them that I wasn't happy with their father's choices either and I was heartbroken as well. I let them know that there was nothing we could've done to stop this and it really was no one's fault. I told them that we do NOT have to like his choices, but we do have to ACCEPT THEM. And all that meant is we acknowledge what he's done and how he's living his life now. There was nothing we could do about it, as much as we don't like what he did and how so many things have changed.
See the kids are left behind too. They feel abandonment too. They need to feel safe to let out their emotions. Their well being through this has been my main focus. It was so hard to see them pain they felt. But enocuraging them to be honest with their Dad is what really helped them establish I better relationship that they continue to build with consistently now. My D12 let XH know without ANY DOUBT she was DEVASTATED by his relationship with OW, that he had just REPLACED ME, and her family unit was broken. Infact it was my D12 that I feel woke him up a bit. Of course he had to spew at me about it a few times, but spew is par for the course so I wasn't suprised.
I agree if your H wants to be a better father that he must work on that. He must start to rebuild that bridge that he's burnt with his sons. This is the hard part but it takes its own course quite well. His relationship with the boys is his relationship with the boys. Any conflict with them, he needs to handle. What's hard is that the boys will have to learn to address this with him on their own as well. Avoid getting involved in their issues unless it's necessary that you do. Be prepared for your H to start blaming you for any conflicts that may arise between him and the boys.
My xh made me the scape goat for the girls being so angry at him. He tried picking fights with me over Christmas vacation because D12 was at his house overnight the first time and crying her eyes out because she missed me. That infuriated him, and he accused me of making her feel guilty for having fun. I just played it cool, and he literally had no response.
And that's my advice. Keep it cool. Don't write/text or talk to him about the emotional issues the boys may have over this, because quite frankly the MLcer's don't care and won't even acknowledge it. That's what I did, emailed about the issues, and Xh ignored it and didn't even respond. I think he thought I was making up stories. Boy did he get a rude awakening and find out the truth.
It got very nasty with Xh and children, so bad I had to get my attorney involved. It wasn't until I got my attorney involved and my daughters standing their ground in making their feelings clear did xh start to become compliant. Then he started being a little nicer. Then he started being a lot nice...and still is.
Once again Im so sorry about all of this...for I've walked this path and still am! However you are doing so well, even if it doesn't feel like it.
Those sleepless nights...Valerian root did the trick for me.
I did the same as Kimmerz with my kids (age appropriate, of course), they went and did their own research on MLC, (peri)menopause, empty nesting, etc. I made sure they knew that it wasn't their fault, that Mom didn't like it either and that no matter what, I wasn't going ANYwhere and that things would be okay in the end. They really stepped up for their ages...proud of them.
Sleep? Melatonin (5-10mg), Valerian root and Fenugreek. My mind is hard to turn off analyzing, future projecting, trying to find what I was missing, fear...etc. I needed the help sleeping, and detaching and placing the sitch in God's hands eventually helped the most...
T^2
Thanks so much for the sleep aid advice. I will definitely try those things. I swear, every week brings a new challenge. My H said in a text last Saturday that he would deposit money to pay for my attorney's retainer. Well, it's Wednesday and he hasn't done it. Is this his way of getting me to contact him or is he just not that concerned about whether I have the money I need? He's been very good about money to this point with the exception of sharing his bonus even though he knows that a percentage of it will eventually go to me. He's the one who rushed to file for divorce and he knows that my attorney needs to respond within 30 days, so what's going on? I did tell him via text that once the retainer is paid that I want to have minimal contact with him. So is he stalling now and wondering what he wants?
golf mom,
It appears that he is dragging his feet a bit. They scream and stomp their feet for a divorce, and yet, many will drag their feet until we do the final bit of work to just get it over and done with.
Or....
He could very well have forgotten about it...their brains do tend to turn to mush during mlc.
Or...
He is pulling a passive aggressive act on you since you stated that once the retainer is paid, you'll have minimal contact w/him. PA folks can be pretty manipulative and controlling in a very subtle way.
Whatever is going on, please do not "expect" him to do anything. Your expectations will have to be zero at all times. Unfortunately, you can't rely on them for anything, i.e., they say they will do something and it may or may not get done, the same will apply to finances and that's why it is so important to watch the bank and credit card statements.
I would try contacting him one more time and see what type of response you receive. If you don't hear from him, I would see if my lawyer would be willing to accept a smaller payment up front, but explain what has happened and then work out a payment schedule until you can get your finances in order.
Golf Mom,
I've had this problem with xh too. He was good about money at first, even depositing it himself into the bank, and then slowly but surely started slacking off. It got to the point that I never got any support until I had to ask. Thankfully the divorce papers will be signed today or tomorrow and Im finally going to be getting my support checks by his wages being garnished. I can't tell you what a relief that is.
My advice, be the squeaky but consistent wheel.Contact him again, and let him know that money is needed. This is the hardest part, keeping it business during the most personal situation of your life!
In my experience it seems the WAS seem to get VERY forgetful after they leave. I swear it's in one ear and out the other quite often, and still is at times with Xh. Then next thing you know their minds are steal traps over things that are so trivial or so long ago, you don't understand what the big deal is.
He very well may not be paying any attention to the time frame in regards to take care of your attorney. He's thinking only of himself now, and what works for him. I hate to be a bummer here, but mentally prepare yourself for him to decide he's NOT going to pay your retainer at the last minute. The MLCer will turn on a dime, drop of a hat, fart in the wind, you name it, they can turn on you.
What's really weird is that he was at the bank earlier this week to deposit money for bills. I really don't want to think that he isn't going to deposit money for my attorney. He knows that I need to be represented. Also, once I start getting paid from my job I'll be curious to see what he does with future deposits. I really hope he doesn't start playing financial games. He's got to know that when he hurts me he hurts the boys and he is desperately trying to salvage his relationship with them.
You are thinking rationally...MLC'er is not...hate to say it...let NOTHING surprise you...
My H is back to blaming me for the breakdown of our marriage. He texted my son tonight asking if he was ever going to talk to him and then wrote that after months of him having my side of the story he wants him to know his side. First of all, I haven't spewed about my side of the story the boys. I've only dealt with the aftermath. Second, I'm the person he should be directing his anger at. Because my H didn't communicate his feelings to me he expected me to be a mind reader. How could I have known that he was struggling with us? He couldn't have harbored that much resentment since we were still doing things together, including having sex, right up to the time he left. So, are the reasons he citing now really what caused him to flee or is he remembering the bad parts of our marriage to continue to justify his actions? I need help understanding what's going on here.
It's so hard to hear from my son what my H is texting. I feel like I have been set back months in the healing process. I am crying my eyes out once again from the pain and turmoil. Why does my H have to continue to use any communication with my son as a way to let it be known that he doesn't love me and that my actions, in his opinion, eroded our marriage. Please remind me that this is typical MLC behavior, because at the moment I feel like I'm losing my mind.
Dear Golf Mom......
I know this is hard. You need to DETACH< DETACH< DETACH!!!!!!!
I fought it, struggle with it and now embrace it. When you find it you will be in an oasis of calm. Do what you can right now to get yourself centered and calm.
Nothing he is saying or doing makes any sense. Quit trying to make it make sense. Keep venting on here. Know that we are all out here pulling for you to get through this.
I know it sounds dumb, but splash some cool water in your face, go find a quiet spot, sit and breath. Think about just breathing and nothing else. Do this for a couple minutes and I bet you feel better.
Aloha,
Wendy
golf mom,
I am sorry that your h is acting like an utter butt. Your h, in his mind, doesn't feel that he has done anything wrong. Yes, mlcers do think that we should have been able to read their minds many months ago...but unfortunately, that isn't something we could have done. They should have told us what was on their minds, but they chose to remain silent and deal w/their misery a different way.
I am sorry that your son received messages from your h describing what he perceives as right. Your h doesn't understand or want to understand why your son is not in communication w/him. Your h can't even begin to understand that you haven't demonized him to your son, because in his mind that is what he thinks you have done...why? Because that is most likely what he's done to you when speaking to others about the situation.
This behavior is called "justification for what he's done". He is trying to justify to your son why he walked away and unfortunately, your son will eventually get disgusted and block his calls/texts or tell him to stop. Yes, this is typical mlc behavior and he will continue to use your son until your son puts an end to it or the time comes when you can state enough is enough. Believe me, the time will come and when that door opens, you will need to advise him that he shouldn't be doing such things via your son.
I know that this behavior is unacceptable and difficult to swallow, but you've got to find a way to let it go for now. You know that you have not demonized your h to your son and you can hold your head up high. Your son knows the truth and that is all that matters.
Hang in there!
Golf Mom,
What snodderly said is 100% spot on. It hurts like hell when they do this, and things will happen that are 2 steps foward 3 steps back. It will seem all the ground you've finally gained is ripped right out from under you, and now you've got to work on getting up again. It's all about justification for him right now.
I've been through xh doing this to me, but he never has given his side of the story to the kids. he just expects them to do as their told and accept all that he's done without any explanation. Be prepared for friends and family to hear his side of the story and for some to take his side. That's happened to me. turns out the one that took his side had an MLC about 3 years ago and her behavior was no better than his, maybe worse. I think she still is in MLC, so of course she'll side with him and his OW. But she's the only one, never liked her anyway.
Thank you for the replies. I know you all are right, but I can't help but feel that it's all my fault. If only I had worked.... H is blaming me for all of our financial shortcomings. I think he will go to his grave feeling that whatever he didn't accomplish in life was because of me. We made a decision that I would stay home. Yes, there came a point when money was tight and I should have gone back to work, however, he wasn't pushing me or telling me how he was feeling about it. He just let it fester. In the meantime, I did a great job of raising the boys, caring for H and our home and I was an excellent household manager. Why in his mind does that not count for anything. Oh, and let me add, that I was loyal and faithful, something that he use to brag about. But he's forgotten about that. Now I'm just this horrible person who he can no longer love. That hurts.
Golf Mom,
Please know what happened to your H is not about what you did or didn't do or even really about you at all.
MLCers cannot face or deal with the issues that truly fuel the crisis. They are the things that happened to your H long before you ever met. Things that he didn't have the tools or knowledge at the time to deal with them. So, he has suppressed them so deep he doesn't even realize that they are at the core of his crisis.
If your H is like most MLCers, they avoid dealing with issues that bother them. They believe if they stuff them down they'll just go away. It has worked for them before, right? In midlife transition when humans typically take stock of their lives, the MLCer sees what he/she thinks they've missed out on and rushes out to try and capture that before it's too late. They try and outrun all that they believe has prevented them from being happy. That includes spouse, kids, and responsibility. When the transition goes off the track and derails, that's when it becomes the crisis. They are willing to throw everything away because they have no idea how to deal with those issues that they've put a tight lid on all those years before and it will be a long time, if ever, that they recognize that this really was behind what drove them.
They are being driven by emotions and their belief that what's bubbling up has to be the fault of their trappings in life. Because they have become so adept at not dealing with issues they run to find band aids that temporarily soothe them and calm their fears.
Eventually, most MLCer's do realize that it was not their spouse or kids that caused their unhappiness. The depression follows them no matter which 'new' life they've chosen. Until and unless he deals with his demons, they will haunt him and he will continue to look for someone or something he can blame.
Detachment is your friend. Own your part but DO NOT let yourself take the blame for things you had no control over. Change those things that YOU don't like when you look into the mirror. Make those changes for you. What he's spewing about now and blaming you for has little to do with what his real issues are.
Let those things he spews roll like water off a duck's back. You will get through this and you're not alone, we're walking the same path right beside you.
SA, that has got to be one of the most succinct and on target descriptions of MLC, I will put that in my "quick reminder" notes...
Thanks!
Thanks so much to all of you for your replies this morning. I really needed your kind words and reminders of the type of person that I'm dealing with. I feel another storm coming on. My H texted me saying that he had sent me an email. I texted back that I don't want to read anything more from him as it's just too painful. I can only imagine that he rambled on and on about how his lack of relationship with the boys is all my fault. Or maybe he wants me to know that he's not paying my attorney's retainer so I will have to represent myself. Who knows. Whatever it is I'm just not strong enough today to deal with it. I'm just on a lunch break, so I have to get back to work and focus. Thanks again everyone. Knowing that you all understand helps more than you know.
"I don't want to read anything more from him as it's just too painful. "
Don't ever admit a weakness. He's going to see that as you being weak and that you're avoiding him. When he texts you something like that, just say you're busy or don't bother replying back.
He will jump on your weakness so you have to show that you're stronger than that.
I blew it big time today. I let my guard down and responded to my H. I asked him to forgive me and to come home. How could I have done that? I feel like it's December and he just left. I'm in so much pain.
Golf Mom,
Hunny this is what we call backslides.....don't worry about it. What's done is done and I don't think you did anything to make it worse. Starting the divorce process really drudges up emotions you thought you had under control. You're up, you're down, you want them back, you don't ever want to see them again. you're neutral, and you're in a fog. Let it go, it's ok. You didn't do anything wrong, because you did speak from your heart when you said that. That's how you feel right now and that's ok.
Right now you're really feeling guilty and you're overwhelmed with what you feel you did to contribute to him leaving. I completely understand.
Ok....I have done that and spent many months stuck in that place...guilt, trying to figure out what I did so wrong, trying to figure out WHY he did this, and WHAT I DID TO CAUSE IT. Well let me tell you something. With the wisdom and support of some great people here, and lots and lots of reading, I finally learned, IT WAS NOT MY FAULT. I didn't cause him to make the choices he did. That this truly was all about him, but he's making the choice to actually make it all about me and what I've done to him. It took time for me to get there, but I did. You will too. Its only normal and natural for these emotions to come over you.
I too was blamed for finances and him being the breadwinner, when the man and I had orginally agreed I stay at home when we had children. DO NOT PUNISH YOURSELF FOR STAYING AT HOME AND RAISING YOUR CHILDREN....You did your children a wonderful thing and your husband as well. You are a good mom and CEO of your home. I think being a SAHM is one of the most important jobs anyone could have, but never ever to critcize working moms, cause now Im a working mom too and now you are as well!
Him going back and criticizing you for something you both originally agreed on and were happy with is dirty pool, mean and nasty. Believe me I got it too..lots of criticizing for not getting a " real job" when xh first encouraged me to do daycare in our home so I we could afford our new rental and still be here with the kids. A while later, I was a loser, and wouldnt get off my butt and get a real job according to him.
Try to be objective and stand back. How does that make any sense? What sense does it make to totally agree with something that's as important as raising your children, and then turn around years later and criticize YOU for doing it? Especially when you did the all the work?
MLCers are completely irrational, and are mean when they're out to justify themselves.
Your sitch/H seem a bit similar in some things, so I may get on my soap box from time to time!
Kimmerz, it really helps a lot to hear your story. I especially appreciate your kind words. I have been completely caught off guard today. I just want him to come home and for this horrible nightmare to go away. I thought I was past this. I miss our family so much. I don't know how I will ever recover from this.
Golf Mom its ok to want your family back.
Its been three yrs. and I miss my family.
I dont know if I miss my xh but I know I miss my family.
I just wish we all could get along.
Kimmerz is right, you will love him, miss him and your family being together. You will be so angry at him and NOT want him back. Just take it one day at a time.
Thats all any of us are promised anyway.
Rely on GOD....he will comfort you.
As much as my divorce hurt me and still does, it was the worst best thing that has ever happened to me.
Hugs,
Renee
Golf Mom,
It seems that most MLCers become extremely selfish during the crisis. It's all about them and what they believe they're entitled to.
When I met my H, I had a very good job. It was a mutual decision after we were married that eventually when we started having children I would become a SAHM.
My H worked very hard and often long hours to support us. I worked equally as hard at home raising the kids and taking care of the home front trying to make sure things ran smoothly and that H and the children had a comfortable place to come home to.
Years later, I had a chance through volunteer work at the children's school to have a paying job there. After discussing it with H, I decided to take the job because if I didn't I was pretty sure I wouldn't be given another chance at it down the road. It was the perfect job to have for a working mom.
Our youngest child was almost 3 at that time and the other three were in school. H and I worked out our schedules so that one of us would be home with the children. By choice we knew we would have less time for our R, but we're both willing to sacrifice for a couple years so that we didn't have to put our youngest in daycare.
We did go on to have a fifth 'surprise' child. lol, and I was able to reduce my hours for a few years to be her main caregiver so H could get enough sleep.
It wasn't always easy, but we worked it out and had what I thought was a pretty great life for a lot of years. H seemed to take great pride in our marriage, children and the life he was able to provide for us. He would often let me know how much he appreciated me, and my contribution.
For a couple years before BD, H started withdrawing from the kids. His temper shortened and the kids hated to even ask questions because he would more often than not act like he was being interrupted by them. He started to act like he resented them.
As H's depression deepened, I tried everything to pull him out. There seemed to be times that I was briefly successful. After a while it didn't matter what I did, and he began to resent me even trying. He wanted to be left alone and when I implored him to seek help, he resented me even more. I finally gave in and the kids and I honored his wishes to be left to himself.
2 weeks before BD there was a marked change in H. Although it wasn't directed at any of us at home he suddenly became more energetic and active...Come to find out at BD he had re-met the woman he had dated 40 years before in High School. After a brief talk with me at BD, H left to move in with the ow.
That was in Oct. of 2009, after 27 + years of M. In Dec. 2010, H filed for D. I was served papers in Jan. 2011. H had decided we would just use his L to keep down the cost. Well, after I reviewed the D papers, I retained my own L. Red flags had popped up all over the D papers. Even after all that time, it was still about H and 'his' money, wanting me to agree not to take any alimony, because after all he had already 'supported' me for most of our M.
My point of this long winded post is to say that it doesn't really matter what you did during your marriage, worked or didn't work outside the home, or how happy you thought your M was. If your spouse is wired in such a way that his coping skills or lack thereof, derail a mid life transition into a crisis, there is nothing that you did or can do to stop it. There is nothing you said or can say that will make them better and fix it. Sweetie, remember, you didn't break your H, and you can't fix him.
Don't beat yourself up about a backslide. We've all done it and to be truthful it wasn't the be all end all of anything. If your H is like most MLCers, he'll forget it even happened. Be prepared for some spew if he even bothers to respond.
Try to not backslide to protect yourself. As Mr. Bond said, do not show weakness. Many S will use it against you.
Oh, and in my case, after I retained my own L and told H that I would negotiate with him on anything except what the state would allot me in C/S and spousal maintenance he has not pursued the D. At some point I may have to pursue the D myself if H doesn't continue. I will know when that time comes and as long as the finances are protected for the kids and I, I'm not in any rush. I've handed this over to God and continue to let Him be my guide.
So, dig deep for strength, confidence and patience. Do not let your H guilt you into taking less than your state allots. My H threatened that if I didn't back down, it wouldn't go well for any of us. I didn't back down, he did. At least for now. I have the time to give him to get his financials straightened around so when/if the D is pursued again he can continue to live well.
Don't ever let your H make you believe that it was all your fault that the M failed. Remember your worth in helping to make it work by being a great wife and mother for many years.
Also, if it is your hope that your M can be saved, you will have to outlast your H's MLC. It will continue until he comes through, although there have been cases of it being interrupted as I believe my H's was. In those cases it most likely will reappear with a vengeance as did my H's.
Use this time to concentrate on you and your children.
The texting continued last night. I know I should have refrained, but my feeling were flowing. After months of stuffing them down it felt good to be honest about how I feel and what I want. My H wrote that we wouldn't be in our current situation if I would have gotten a job a few years ago. That hurts considering I thought I was doing everything right and had no idea what was festering below the surface. It's hard to believe that there's more to this and that my H has latched onto financial strain as the sole reason for the deterioration of our marriage. I asked him to withdraw the divorce papers and come home. He responded that we have six months to think about it and he's not ready. If, in his mind, finances were the only cause then how does this make it better? I am now working full time like he wanted and my income is essentially extra money if we were together. Apart, it just keeps the financial strain alive. He says that he forgives me, but why won't he go forward. I know it's likely that there is an OW, but I can't find any signs of one. Why is he continuing to dig in his heals if the main issue is solved? His lease is up in June, so could he be waiting for that time to make a decision? I know it's foolish to look for answers when there aren't any. I'm just grasping for hope.
Hi golf mom, I am so sorry that you are in such pain. At the beginning of my situation, my W told me so many things that I needed to change.. and I thought that as I changed each of those things, she would feel differently and come back. But the list kept growing. Finally, I realized that it was not really about those things and that no matter what I did, she would keep running away.
I believe that the things she told me were her attempt to not feel guilty. I don't think she was doing it consciously, I think she believed them all. And there were enough grains of truth in each of them that I would run after them like crazy, thinking it would change things between us.
Please don't beat yourself up. After running after all the "changes" I needed to make, I ended up feeling really badly about myself. I am now in the midst of trying to separate the fact from fiction, appreciate the good things I know about myself and work on the things I need to do to be a better me. I can not control my W's (MLC) journey, only mine.
I also learned that the vets on here truly know what they are talking about. When I am able to follow their kind advice, I feel better, become stronger and the freight train to D seems to slow a bit. (My W moved out of state without filing papers.)
And there is still and will always be hope as long as you want to hope! big hugs to you.
Me (f): 51 W: 41
T: 10 M: 7
ILYBINILWY: 7/11
Moved out: 10/11
Moved back in: 11/11 moved out again and asked for divorce 7 days later
W wants to work on things and "feels confident" we can: 1/12
Decision to move across country: Three weeks later
W moves out of state: 4/12/12
golf mom,
Please stop listening to what he is saying. He is looking for any excuse/justification for his leaving. Let me just say this, you could have been the goose that laid golden eggs and he still would have found some excuse for what he is doing. You can say the sky is blue w/fluffy white clouds and he would say it's not. Please stop drinking the kool-aid that he is serving up....it is very tainted.
Snodderly is absolutely right! My X kept telling the kids that "they just didn't know!" Know what? Evidently, he didn't know either. They will say anything to justify their actions in their own mind. GM, I'm two years post BD; been divorced almost a full year now. While detachment doesn't come easy, it is well worth the battle to obtain. I hurt for you knowing the agony of what you are feeling right now. Just deal one day at a time. And the backslide thing? fagedabotit. It happens. Just let it go, along with anything you might have said and now regret. Like it never happened.
I'm so tired of struggling emotionally and financially. I'm burdened by living with my kids grief. Generally, I'm just tired. This is not the life I wanted or deserve. One person in a family should not have to do it all. How is it that I have the weight of the world on my shoulders and my H seemingly lives a carefree life? When does he get to feel the pain, stress and burden of the situation that he created? I can see why there are so few reconciliations. How many LBS's can really stand for their marriage and not become angry, bitter and resentful. Today is one of those days when I feel all of that. My H is not worthy of me. What he did was cruel. I badly want to get rid of any feelings and emotions that keep me connected to him in any way. I understand the temptation of finding a new relationship (although I have zero interest) to help deaden all of the pain. I look forward to the day when I'm not one of the walking wounded. Thank you all for going on this journey with me.
golf mom,
I understand completely how you feel. It's not fair to any of us, but we must deal w/the hand that we have been given. To answer one of your questions...your h does feel some pain, but it's not evident to you or anyone else just yet. The pain is hidden under all of the irrational things that he's doing and that's why he's running away from you, the family and the relationship. He's trying to find a way to make himself happy and the only thing he knows right now is that he needs to make a new life, i.e., he thinks it will make him happy.
Unfortunately, his baggage of childhood issues followed him. He is not living as care free life as you think...don't be fooled by his actions...you surely do not want to be in his head while he's traveling the universe.
Yes, right now you are suffering and having the endure everything, i.e., the weight of life. However, as you begin to find your balance once again, you will then select those tasks that must be done one at a time. You are most likely looking at the entire picture, but you need to break it down into smaller pieces in order for you not to feel like you are drowning.
To help w/your anger, beat the crap out of a pillow or go weed your flower bed. Do something physical that will help you get this anger out of your system. Give yourself permission to let the anger go. You will feel so much better.
In time, the tables do turn and your spouse will feel the pain, just as you are feeling it now. He may be a life long runner and then again, he may be one of the few lucky ones that the pain hits early on in his crisis and makes him think about what he's done full force, i.e., in time to make amends.
For now, please take care of yourself and do something "fun" today w/your children.
GM
snodderly is right on
the MLCer does look like he gets to "have all the fun" in the beginning and we are the ones taking on all adult responsibilities
But after a while you will see his pain
you are dealing with your pain now and therefore yours will ease up in time BUT..he is running and will use anything to numb it for quite some time
so he is not painfree,, not fun only numb..Anyone could numb but that is probably not your choice nor mine
In time, you will understand more, for now just try to take care of yourself- make sure you rest eat sleep and talk to trusted persons..pray if your inclined to
peace
The time goes very fast
Peace
I know it might seem like I'm not listening to all of you, but truly I am. I'm just having a hard time with acceptance. I loved the life that I had before and it was taken from me. I don't have control of the outcome and with that comes fear. In addition to that, I keep asking myself why am I grieving for someone that would treat his family this way. The only answer I have is that I find things to love in all people, including those that hurt me. Some might say I have low self-esteem and self-worth. There is some truth to that. But my decision to connect with people and love them is a choice, not a need. When I met my H I had it all together. I had a great job, my own apartment and car, I was going to school in the evening, I had good friends and I was volunteering. My life was full and I was so content that he pursued me for several weeks before I even returned his call. In fact, I was so afraid of disrupting the harmony that I had I almost cancelled our first date. Letting him into my life was a choice, not a need. He had nothing to offer but himself. He had recently divorced (red flag!), was new to the area, had a mediocre job, no car and was subletting a room. Seriously, what was the attraction??? Maybe I was needier than I saw at the time. I don't know. I just want to get back to that place of contentment. I want to feel like I'm letting people in instead of feeling desperate for my H to return. In some ways we're right back to where we started. I have a house, good job, great kids, family and friends, etc. and what does he have? No family, except a few dysfunctional relatives across the country, a deadend job, albeit it pays well, a studio apartment in a poor neighborhood and soon, another X. So what's the attraction? Is it true that we really can't help who we fall in love with or does this indicate a deficit within myself? Healing needs to take place, but what am I healing?
golf mom,
You've come a long way in your life, you are a successful woman who is going to survive this situation. Healing will take time because you have put all of you love, trust and faith in a man who had a lot of issues before meeting up and marrying you. I suspect his issues were carried over into your marriage and now, after a long time, have come to the surface again. He didn't make the life transitions correctly in his teens, 20's and 30's.
In your posting, you described what his life was like before he met you....well he and his history have now come full circle and he's going to have to face those issues head on or remain on the run going from one relationship to the next. In many ways, his life sounds like my xh's...
Please do not second guess yourself. You fell in love w/this man and had a good marriage until mid-life hit and another life's transition came upon him. I think you are too hard on yourself at times and you need to remember that this mlc is his journey to take so that he can face his issues and become a mature man.
Please be kind to yourself...you have done absolutely nothing wrong...
Golf Mom,
First, as hard as it is, you have to take one day at a time. With time, with detachement, and with distance, you may be able to identify cracks that you perhaps were not aware of, or wouldn't let yourself see. That is just life. It doesn't justify how your H handled things, the hurt he has put you and his family through.
Secondly, as much as you want this to be all over, in most cases, it is just beginning. You have to batten down the hatches for the long haul, whatever that may bring. Painful, but honest.
Lastly, there is no deficit in your character for having seen something in your H that you now feel is lacking. The person you are dealing with now is NOT that person. Being able to see all the good in a person, their potential, etc., can never be a bad thing. You have probably been the more emotionally strong partner in this relationship all along. You just don't/won't give yourself the credit you deserve.
GM,
Excellent replies above by peacetoday, snodderly and punkin...please do not be so hard on yourself...I DO understand, I beat myself up for months (and I did have reason to)...but at the end of the day...it is something that would have come, no matter what we did or did not do...I have struggled with this, fought it, could not accept it as I am rationally based in my life outlook...but, once I did figure it out (that this would have happened no matter where we lived, what job I had, etc, etc)...then a bit of wisdom, then acceptance, then some peace within me.
Once I accepted that this was my reality, and that God was trying to teach me something, and teach W something, and that we are given no more than we can handle, then I knew whatever happened would be right.
YOU will get there, YOU will know what to do, YOU will make the right decisions, YOU will know...it is a quiet voice, or feeling inside, that lets you know...
T^2
I am working on patience. Clearly I need a lot of it to get through this. My fearful inner-child wants to be reassured that everything will be all right. I desperately want to use this time to learn and grow and become the whole person that God intended me to be. I hate that I give so much energy to something that is out of my control. I'm definitely someone who likes all my ducks in a row. I don't like to leave anything to chance. It's too scary. This is one of my target areas. It's pretty exhausting being me. So I'm left wondering, in my marriage what came first? Did I pick up where my husband left off or did he feel a lack of control because I took care of everything? I just know that I resented having to taking care of the home front without any help from him. He was too busy building his career. In the meantime my world became pretty small. I'm paying for that big time now.
Golf Mom,
I wish I could just give you a hug right now..... so here's one from cyber land (((((hug))))). I want to also tell you that you're doing a wonderful job of owning your emotions and realizing what you're feeling and why you're feeling them. Just right then and there is proof that you're one level headed person and in touch with your feelings!
And here's a self satisfying thought I have quite often after getting some of my emotional ducks in a row ( i like my ducks in a row too). "Gee if all these MLcers were so in touch with their feelings like we are, we wouldn't be in the mess now would we?"
If it's any help, absolutely everything that you've posted in regards to your feelings of being overwhelmed with single parent hood, getting frustrated with yourself for still loving and wanting someone that can't reciprocate that love, feeling the burden of your children's grief, and then H acts as if everything is just wonderful for him and his new life as you're slammed into this new life that you did NOT ASK FOR.... gee welcome to my world.... or should I say welcome to the club? I really understand. We all do.
Do you have an Employee Assistance Program at your new job? I took advantage of that and went to personal counseling for the 3 free sessions they offer. I found a great counselor and wished I could've afforded to see her after the initial 3 visits. However she really helped me get on the right path. Im going to tell you the advice she gave me.
This is an emotional trauma. Emotional Trauma is very much like getting in a car accident and breaking every bone in your body. Yet you still keep walking, talking and carrying on because you have to. You are grieving and have been betrayed by the man you love and have children with. You built a life together, and now here this comes out of no where. All you can do is get in touch with these emotions that come over you, in order to sort your feelings out about your H. Allow them to come. Let it wash over you, because it will come in waves. You will be ok and then something will hit you. Hold on, ride it out, but allow yourself to feel what you feel. It's the only way you can sort these emotions out and start to heal. And it just takes time. Give yourself permission to feel these things.
See what I struggled with and still do from time to time is my ego and pride. My head will tell me clever things like " why should I want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with me, treated me this way, lied to me, has got so many issues...etc." Well yes objectively why? But our hearts and our heads are NOT in the same place for this to really click and be fully accepted and felt at the same time. This is where you have to be kind to yourself, and be realistic with yourself. How would you treat you best friend if they were going through the exact same thing? And this is ok, and all part of the healing process. And it takes time.....alot of time. I had to remind myself many times through this to treat myself as I would a friend going through all of this.
My H left a year ago next month. The papers should be signed this week, and it was this week 6 years ago my mother died. Gee, wonder why I've been weepy on and off all day?
For me, it wasn't until I had worked through the majority of my grief did I even have any desire to GAL and actually start to make plans for it and look foward to it. And guess what? It's only been this last month that I've really started to feel normal again, wanting to live life again, and getting excited about what kind of life I can live now. It's only been now have I noticed I am really happy not being in a relationship, and will be ok being single because Im ok with me. I like me. Faking it till you make it didn't work for me.
Also it was at the 4 months post BD that I got the blow of finding out about OW....and that's when I mentally and emotionally got the crap kicked out of me. As long as he didn't have OW I seemed to be semi ok with things, but when I found out about her, I don't think the word devastated could do me justice. I've been so down, I literally wished I were dead at least 4 -5 different times just to escape the pain. Especially when I found out WHO IT WAS.... long story.
I am so sorry....but we're all here for you.
I understand the wanting ducks in a row, nothing left to chance...that is so me...what I have learned is that YOU can answer and nurture your inner-child, only you. And its always been that way, we just didn't know as we had a spouse to help at times...really, it has always been up to us, and from your postings, you did just fine with that before H, now it is time to remember that you have always done this, always taken care of your inner-child, and can/will going forward, regardless of the outcome of your sitch.
Don't know about your H, but for me, when the kids were younger I did A LOT more with the day-to-day stuff...I love cooking (used to be a sous-chef in an earlier career), I love laundry (I mean, you get to mix chemicals with different temps of water to see what results you get...lol...chemistry set for real life!)
When W took over completely some of these a few years ago, (cooking and laundry, for example) and a lot of outside (yard decisions, etc) I DID feel cut out, lacking control, just a paycheck...etc, so probably some resentment as I wanted to be the perfect example for my sons of men who cook, clean, do laundry...so eventually I sorta "gave up", which led to less than helpful coping skills...which led to...which led to...you know how these chain reactions go...
Wow T^2,
That's pretty insightful. I never thought that by women taking on the role of keeping everything undercontrol with the house would make a man feel that way.
I seriously doubt your wife purposely took on these roles to take anything away from you purposely. She was just doing what needed to be done. Did you see it differently at the time? I ask because this was main complaint from my XH. He was just a paycheck and I was too controlling. He told me " I just gave up." and " You do everything for me anyway, you don't have to do this for me either".
At the time this was happening did you understand why you felt the way you did and then tell her about it? Or did you feel anger and resentment towards her?
Hey Kimmerz!
That is just how I felt, I am quite sure there are men who would not...
For me, I think it was a feeling of being cut out, and the control/fixer person in me just hated that, plus my sense of identity has been tied into it. Working on that.
I wasn't aware at the time, I was focussed on what wasn't getting done and allowing resentment to build. When I would try to help or insert myself, she pushed me away, eventually I quit trying because I know W has a very strong, but quiet stubborn streak (as do I).
W and I have talked about that, and you are right, not purposeful against me, but her trying to be in control of something/anything...this weekend she even said she wasn't ready to let go of that control when I offered to help.
Since I have worked on myself enough, I have been able to let the resentment/control/fix-it go and just flow with her currents better, detachment works (when I remember...lol
My husband definitely felt that I controlled everything. It wasn't intentional at all. Since I was home I thought he expected me to do everything and I developed resentment about that. I felt like the maid and he felt like he was just a paycheck. I'm sure a lot of couples fall into this. The mistake we made is that we didn't talk about it often enough, so at times we lashed out at each other. One of the first things that my H said after he left is that he felt that he had sacrificed his manhood. I was stunned. I took care of things to make it easier for him and because I thought that was what he wanted. Part of his resentment came from controversy over disciplining the boys. He rarely did it, but when he did it was usually because he didn't like how I was handling something and he would butt in, usually by yelling. To me that wasn't effective, but in hindsight I realize he saw it as not having a role in raising the boys. Clearly this is a pretty easy issue to to workout, but coupled with all of my H's other complaints about me he saw it as a pretty big deal. It really makes me feel bad that he felt squeezed out. That was never my intention. In fact, when he did choose to be involved with the boys it made my heart swell. I wanted a partner. It was never important to me to run the show. I wish my H would see that his passive-aggressive personality contributed to his resentment. I did acknowledge the mistake that I made by taking over and apologized for hurting him. This is something I will definitely be more aware of going forward whether we're together or apart.
In general, even though my H says he forgives me for the areas where I failed he still wants nothing to do with me and has said that he feels anxious driving up our street. So, has he really forgiven me? It seems like he has completely forgotten all of my positive qualities and, in his mind, has turned me into this horrible person who has made him feel like less of a man, controlled, unappreciated, unhappy, etc. What part of this, if any, do I need to own?
golf mom,
Please, please stop drinking the kool-aid the man is serving up. Stop accepting the blame for what happened in your marriage. We all had to take on things and listen up! If your man had issues w/what you were doing, he should have spoken up and had conversations w/you about the way he felt. Lord knows, none of us where mind readers.
Yes, he's dumping on you because he couldn't step up to the plate and say what was on his mind. This is the passive-aggressive behavior talking. Sure he didn't have an issue w/you doing all of that stuff at the time, but in crisis, he's going to speak up about every little thing that has crossed him from the get go. Has he said anything yet about the way you kept the house, cooking, etc.? Has he said anything about the way you dress or how you look? They may be the next thing he focuses on. He is looking for justification for why he feels the way he does and believe me, he will pull every little rabbit out of the hat first. He wants to make you feel miserable and he wants to play the victim. Don't allow him to bring you down into the dark hole w/him!
As for him wanting nothing to do w/you....that's mlc at its finest. Why? Because you are a reminder of his past life and it's a life he doesn't want to remember right now. He's searching for something in his past and you were not a part of that past when he was a child. Of course he feels anxious driving up the street...that's guilt talking. Many of them say that they feel smothered or feel like they are dying when they are in the home. Others will have the anxious feelings to the point of not wanting to come any where near their homes. Others will avoid all eye contact w/their spouses. Why? It's guilt and they are afraid that if they do come into their homes or see us, their hearts may soften and may opt to think about returning. They need reasons for staying away and that's when they pull the stunts they do. Honestly, they don't know why they feel the way they do about us, the relationship, etc. All they know is that they have to do this running bit right now and they also know it might be the biggest mistake they make, but they have to try it. It's not you or any of us, but it's all about THEM!
I am going to suggest that you take some time and go to the MLC archives and read up what many of the posters have written over the years and you will see that you are not alone in what he has said and done....golf mom, you are a wonderful and compassionate person and I do not want to see this man take you down into that dark hole. Toss that glass of kool-aid out and start drinking the glass that is half full of wisdom, support and knowledge that we offer here.
And there she goes again.....that Snodderly nails it every time!
Golf Mom, it takes some time for it to sink iin, and grasp at first. I know it did for me. I just couldn't wrap my head around this sort of stuff. I think part of it for me was that I didn't really want to accept just how twisted my MlCer's thinking had become. I mean it's disturbing to see how they rationalize everything by blaming us. But remember we are not to blame for all of this. Only a severely dysfunctional person would blame everything wrong in their lives on their spouse.
I agree with Snodderly, if they had issues with things back then, it was back then they should've been addressed, not now. We are not mind readers, but they like to blame us for not being mind readers. Been there, done that, oh boy howdy have I.
Golf Mom you and I both got the song and dance about how we were so controlling and took over everything as we did our roles as SAHM. Of course it was never your intention to conquer the house as if you were a dictator and he some pitiful subject to do as he was told. You were a family, working together as a family for the best interest of your children. MLCers re write history and have selective memories. I remember talking to XH about issues after he left and I was just dumbfounded of his perspective and memory. He then said to me "well you and I seem to remember things very differently and completely blame eachother for everything". And I wasn't even blaming him for anything during the conversation, yet he accused me of blaming him for everything....this is projection of course.
I did get the criticism about the house, and the way I was cooking. Didn't get any criticism about the way I dressed or looked though, but Im sure that was on the tip of his tonque next. Now I do agree with him, I am not a good housekeeper anymore now that Im working. However H never lifted a finger to do the dishes, mow the lawn, help with laundry (except his own), feed the animals, wash the vehicles, or even clean up his own garage or shop. The one time I saw his apartment he said to me " well it's not as nice as the other apartment I wanted, but at least it's CLEAN". Well his floor needed swept, toilet wiped down, bathroom counter wiped off, and bathroom and kitchen rug needed washed as far as I was concerned.
Do you still have contact with H? Are you still emailing and texting? Still having R talks? No contact is the best advice I could offer. I know it really helped me get where I needed to be. It was the hardest part of everything but my self esteem really started to grow when I began to live my life without him in it, except knowing he was still seeing the kids. Then he started contact with me again on a spewing basis and next thing you know I started emotionally doing backslides from where I was at. But it's par for the course.
And once you really get a firm grasp that this truly is ALL about them....then the things that hurt so much, don't really hurt that much anymore.
Have you read the MLC for Dummies yet? It's the best thing you could read now! It's spot on, but hilarious!I've read that many times and still do every now and then because it's so true.
Golf Mom, I'll still bet ten bucks he has an OW. That's usually why they have to find a "reason" why they "had" to leave.
GM, I just had to pop in here and agree with snod and kimmish...
My W claimed that I was controlling... and I wasn't even allowed to write on the calendar... lol... No, really... I was the SAHP and (ok, truth is I didn't step up, if that's the argument on my sitch) my W made all the plans for the household even while I was supposed to be "in charge"...
Another one my W would tell me was that I always needed to be right... of course, that was her response to pretty much anything I disagreed with her on... she pretty much nailed me before I was out of the gate, because if I tried to state my side, I was wrong because I was even trying to be right...
There may be some "truth" to what they say... or at best... understand that is how they FEEL... even if it has no basis...
Because you are simply a target... because they feel controlled... they feel "wrong"... they feel poor... they feel drunk...
It's the fault of the LBS...
Until... or if... they start their healing process... and then... they may stop blaming the LBS... but also understand... for all they blamed the LBS prior... they may never have clarity...
Understand how your H might feel the way he does, even if you had a different experience of things... and only own the things that you can say, "yes... I did that or behaved that way and I regret it and will fix that."
GM,
Snodderly is spot on.
You could have jumped through hoops for your H and addressed everyone one of his complaints, and you know what? When they're in crisis mode nothing you did would have been good enough or new complaints about you would have arisen.
Do you want to know how I know this? It's because I lived it. I had no idea what was the matter with my H. All I knew is that after a while I stopped trying to change to please him because it was never ending.
As KD said, only own those things that you can say yes to. If something your H said stung a little, have a closer look at it and fix it if you don't like that about yourself. Don't do it for your H though, do it for yourself.
I can't thank you all enough for all of your thoughtful responses. Your general insight and also sharing of your own situations really helps a lot. I know my self-esteem really took a hit during the time I was a SAHM. Little by little I'm rebuilding me. Working is helping a lot. Learning new things, being appreciated and paid feels great. The loneliness is still hard. I miss the phone calls throughout the day and a hug at the end. I miss sleeping peacefully knowing we're all home and safe.
You're right about no contact. After talking to him Friday I was a mess. It didn't help that he hung up on me when I disagreed with him. I felt abandoned all over again. I'm beyond the tears once again and just want to keep my distance from him so I don't backslide. He is in the typical MLC pattern of being nice then becoming hateful. One minute he tells me how happy he is for me that I got a good job, not for financial reasons, but for my own self worth (Really??? I thought this was all about finances.) Then he tells me we wouldn't be in this situation if only I had worked. Now it's all my faullt, but a month ago it was equal. In fact, he thought it was more his fault. And on, and on.
KML, you're likely right about an OW and it's probably a matter of time before i find out about her. (Months ago he used our bank account to order Viagra - that stung. When I confronted him he jokingly said "you never know when you need to be ready.") I believe that's what's behind his sudden rush for a divorce. I just feel devasted when I consider that so I try not to go there. Maybe that would be for the best. It seems relationships outside of the M are often the wakeup call that WS's need. Things might be blissful at first, but it won't take long before there are expectations and demands. I've been tempted to hire a PI (has anyone done this?)' but what would be the point?
Putting all of this aside, I've been busy in the yard and will start doing house projects as I can afford them. Those are true pasions. (If only I were a celebrity, I could focus on renovating my beach house.) I cook and bake a lot, too. I'm finding it difficult to fit in my sports, but I'm making that a priority over cleaning going forward. I would like to return to counseling since I really like the person that I was seeing, but I can't afford it right now. In the meantime, I'm so grateful to all of you who take the time to educate and comfort me even though you're dealing with your own pain. I also have lots of friends who, thankfully, aren't sick of me yet. It's so crazy, but I feel like celebrating when I go for any period of time without thinking about my H. I'm looking forward to entire days of not feeling the burden of this.
I just blocked H from calling, texting and emailing. I didn't do it to be mean and I don't know that I can keep him blocked long term for practical reasons, but I felt like I needed to do something to take control over how I am treated. I don't want to have phone conversations because he controls them by hanging up when he doesn't want to hear my opinions or feelings. I also hate wondering throughout the day if his name will popup on my phone. And I surely don't want to read anymore emails since the last one went on and on about his attorney this and that. I just can't have another day like Friday. It took hours to stabilize after his threatening email, etc. I have asked him to contact me through my attorney. Am I asking for more drama by doing his or is it a step in the right direction?
golf mom,
You have done the correct thing in blocking his calls/emails. You need to be in the no contact mode (nc) for a while. This is to help you stablize and find your footing once again. They are so insensitive to the spouses and whatever comes out of their mouths is hurtful and believe me, in some instances, they can't control their thoughts and what spews forth.
If he has issues about the divorce, then he should have his attorney contact yours. You do not need to be sitting there listening to his gibberish all of the time.
Also, I want to mention that whether you worked or stayed at home, it wouldn't have mattered. Your h would have found excuses for leaving. Please don't beat yourself up over being home.
I hope today is a better day for you.
Lol - well, I never blocked my ex - but whenever he would start to spew on me over the phone, my cell phone mysteriously lost signal.
Well, NC didn't last very long. When I was home for lunch I had a message from my H saying that he had tried to call/text me but apparently he has been block (yup!). Then he went on to say how he would like to refinance the house and already has the paper work done, but wanted to make sure it was OK with me. Also said regardless of what happens in the future he doesn't want us to pay more than we have to. This is what I had been asking him to do for months, but he insisted on selling the house and getting his name off the mortgage. It's amazing how these MLCers are mean one minute and accommodating the next. I called him back to let him know that refinancing was fine with me and I thanked him. I also let him know that I blocked him because I won't allow him to treat me badly anymore and that I need distance from him. I also let him know that I don't trust him and that his actions starting with the day he left have shown me that he only considers what's in his best interest so I will no longer engage in conversations, etc. with him. The attorneys will need to do all of the negotiating from now on. Last, I told him that I will no longer allow him to dump on me and that I realize I took on too much of the responsibility for the failures in our marriage. As far as I'm concerned I've taken a look at myself, apologized for my shortcomings, changed things (I will continue work in this area) that needed to be changed, but that's it. He has to deal with all the rest. Then I ended the phone call. I don't care whether he mulls all that over or not, but it sure felt good to set some boundaries with him. I had a bounce in my step all the way back to work. Now it's back to NC.
Great job! That's the way to get back your self-esteem. Don't be surprised when he starts increasing his calls. His blaming you will start to increase. Keep a log of the calls and have your attorney address them accordingly.
Way to go Golf Mom! You handled that perfectly.
As Mr. Bond said, you may see the spew increase for a while because your H will test your boundaries like a petulant brat.
Shut him down each time he shows disrespect.
Yay golf Mom!!! Woo HOO!!!
You go girl! I am so proud of you! It's such a relief to get that off your chest and set boundaries, isn't it? Great boundaries by the way.
What was his reaction when you said that?
Yes, this is typical wishy-washy behavior for the MLCer. Nice one minute the just seething with venom the next. Mine was this way the first month or two after he left. I remember my SIL telling me he was acting mad. I told her that I had to set boundaries because he wouldn't stop pushing this friendship thing. She was the first to agree that we probably couldn't ever be friends after what he pulled this time.
I finally told him I was no longer going to take all the blame for his unhappiness in this marriage. I also told him that he had NEVER spoken to me like he had in all our years together as he had then and that he is not to speak to me unless he can speak to me respectfully.
That nipped that at the bud right away, but that is when there would be stretches of no contact. LOL...if there was contact Im sure it would've been all spew.
The MLCers cycle...rinse and repeat sort of thing. So don't be suprised if he keeps this up for a little while.
Im now starting to sense XH is starting to go back to where he was a year ago and there very well may be some spewing again. Having no respect for the LBS is what MLCers do best. I honestly think XH was in denial for a long time about the REALITY of divorce. Snodderly said they expect to us stay put and do and say all the things we were doing married, while they go off and do their own thing. That was really hard to grasp, such selfish and irrational behavior...but it's the truth! I see it happening now in my sitch.
golf mom!
You did great! There is absolutely no reason why you have to be put in the position of being disrespected by him. Now, when he starts the spew up, shut him down! Walk away, cut the conversation short or if you want to try something that is very successful....change the subject very quickly and you will be amazed at how that confuses them and their train of thought is then affected. They flipped very quickly, but you will have to control this, not them when they are spewing.
Good luck w/the refinancing, but stay alert and do not let your guard down for one minute.
Now it's all my faullt, but a month ago it was equal. In fact, he thought it was more his fault. And on, and on.
Something to brace for in the future - he will likely blame you more and more as he tries to make himself feel better about his choices. Don't be surprised if you find at some point that he blames you for everything even his toast not having a smiley face on it when he woke up
This is his journey, but there may be more if you let it happen.
Good deal on the refinance. Hopefully that will help.
AJ
Thank you all for the "thumbs up." Kimmerz, to answer your question, my H said nothing. I have often wondered if he just puts the phone down when I'm talking. When we're arguing he has plenty to say, but when I'm controlled and unemotional he seems to listen (note to self). Something has been puzzling me since yesterday. I thought it was odd that my H referred to US saving money. He has to pay me what he's legally required to so it really doesn't benefit him to refinance. Last Friday our blow out was over the amount his attorney estimated that he would be paying me each month which was quite a bit lower than my attorney estimated. Anyway, at no point yesterday did he say anything about making it easier for me to afford the mortgage. He only referred to us paying less. I'm also wondering about a conversation that he had with our accountant between Friday and yesterday. I know the accountant has felt badly about our separation and had told me that he wanted to talk to my H. He's divorced and remarried and said he would definitely try to persuade others from that choice. A while back I posted about the lack of mentors in our communities. Well, I'm so glad that the accountant tried to be one to both my H and me. I don't know that he got through to my H, but it sure is interesting that Friday he was spewing, then he met with the account, followed by his initiative to refinance the house at absolutely no benefit to him unless we stay together. I guess I'm just looking for even the slightest bit of hope. Regardless, I'm standing firm with NC. After re-reading parts of Love Must Be Tough I realize that pulling back and expecting respectful treatment is my best chance for reconciliation, and even more important, rebuilding my self-esteem.
golf mom,
Whenever you speak a calm and controlled voice, he will listen. When we are all over the place, pointing fingers and trying to tell them that they are making mistakes, etc., they will spew and it's like backing them into a corner, i.e., they come out swinging. Now, you will need to keep your boundaries in place and continue as you have been. Do not back down or, just like a child, he'll walk all over you.
I'm glad you have a good accountant. However, the only thing that your h will listen to is if there is a benefit to his "cash" pocket about the refinancing of the home. However, keep your expectations at zero. Mlcers tend to say "we" often and it's not meant that they are thinking of reconciling. It's out of habit. Keep in mind, he could very well plan to refinance the home and keep it the loan/mortgage in both names and yet live separately. Some of them do this. A good friend of mine who use to post here is in this particular situation and there is no indication that her h has ever woken up and he's been on the Mother Ship for approximately 12 years. Yes, he's gotten friendlier and spends time w/her, but not indication of wanting to reconcile.
Golf mom, I want you to have hope and keep the door ajar, but also keep your expectations at zero. I don't want to see you set yourself up for more disappointment if he suddenly does something different.
You are a strong and independent lady and I know that, in time, you are going to be okay. Please do not doubt yourself...you are doing just fine and are exactly where you should be at this time. You are learning about yourself and what boundaries you need to put in place to gain respect. All I can say is "go, girl"!
Hi GM,
I speak from experience in regards to what Snodderly said about speaking in calm, controlled voice, or texts or emails. It's very true! A few times during the first month or two after BD and him moving out I had a few of my "spews" of my own. I figured that I had taken all his spew it was time he hear some of my own. It would just make him start in more, and more, and more. As much as I wanted to verbally tear right back into him, I realized it was fighting fire with fire, two wrongs were not making a right, and someone had to get a grip.
At this point in the game Im beginning to think that when we speak to them and the spewing stops, they're actually listening to us. They may not even respond back to us or completely drop the conversation, but I think we've been heard. That was a hard one for me to really understand. Im an assertive person and my expectations are for people to treat me assertively back. Quite frankly most civilized people in everyday life do act that way towards others! I just took it that if he wasn't responding to my emails, texts or comments, he wasn't reading them or listening. Later down the road he told me he always reads my emails, it's just he didn't know how to respond or even if he should. AVOIDANT PERSONALITY!
At any rate Xh's way to let me know he's irritated is to just make remarks with underlying tones of irritation, sarcasm, or just come right out and blast me now that MLC hit. If I can tell he's hinting about something I just nip it at the bud, and ask him what's really going on. What's different now, is he will actually communicate with me and tell me. Before he'd just sit in the corner and pout and say "never mind".
If he starts in on a personal attack, what I do is really, really listen to what his POINT IS, and address that. That nips it at the bud too. I got a lot of spew from him at Christmas. D12 was having a very hard time at his house, overnight for the first time with OW. She isolated herself in her bedroom crying the entire time talking about how much she missed me. My god this was her first Christmas in a broken family, she was absolutely heart broken. Yet who's fault was it? Mine! all mine! I got spew texts that she was fine up until she text me and then she fell into tears and was depressed all night and day. yes it was me that made her feel guilty for having fun.
My response " well if I made her feel guilty about it, she will let me know."
It takes alot of patience because when they start throwing those personal insults left and right, its our instict to defend ourselves and throw it right back.
But I've learned a person can adequately defend themselves without having to personally attack anyone.
I'm definitely going to have to stay very calm when I talk to him and, quite honestly, I don't trust myself to do that all of the time. Friday showed me that he can easily push my buttons. I wish I would have just printed the email and given it to my attorney rather than try to defend myself. Kimmerz, it is interesting how they seem to listen when the conversation is unemotional, even if the topic is negative. On Tuesday, because I was in a work mode, my professional, distant way of talking to him had created much better results. I was cordial, but very matter of fact. I also ended the conversation first before things turned hostile and he hung up on me again. I really do have to be in the right frame of mind though, since most of the time I want to let him have it. I feel like most days I either feel flat, angry or sad. I'm just waiting for the joy to return. I can put on a smile in public, but at home I'm still struggling.
I am such a fool! Why do I continue to look for signs of hope? I really thought that our conversation earlier this week was positive and maybe even indicated that there was a possibility that we'd reconcile. I was really wrong. Today I got an email from my H (thought I had blocked his work email as well) outlining his terms for me to give to my attorney. Now he's back to wanting his name off the mortgage as soon as possible. The refinancing is pending, but I figured out why he initiated it. He wants to save himself money until the divorce is final since he is continuing to support me beyond what he will eventually be required to do. And, get this, it's all about preserving his credit since I'm the one who pays the bills. Never mind that I had pleaded with him months ago to take the house off the market and refinance. At that time he could have cared less about where the boys and I live. Now he's fine with refinancing so he can save money until everything is finalized. I can't believe I let myself believe there was hope in his actions. You all warned me and you were right. This was just another self-serving act. Once I realized it I sobbed for an hour. I'm better now after talking to a friend. No way will I contact him or in anyway acknowledge his email. I'll print it for my attorney to address. In the meantime, I need to block his email and continue with no contact. I have a question. We basically agreed to everything that he outlined in our conversation on Tuesday and I told him that I didn't want further contact with him, so why is he continuing to contact me?
I just read this about passive-agressive spouses and it really hit home, especially how they are attracted to co-dependents. Are a lot of MLCers this personality type? I feel like our marriage was a farce and doomed from the start.
http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/abusiverelationships/a/Pass_Agg.htm
Hi Golf mom!
Been thinking of you today wondering how things were going. Your sitch really hits home, so many things are similar. Where you are now on this journey is where I was 9- 10 months ago.
First of all DO NOT beat yourself up for getting signs of hope, ok? I mean if they're dropping sigs of hope, we're going to see that. Believe me, we've all done it! Get some signs of hope to only find the complete opposite happened, and then feel foolish.
I know...believe me I do.
BTW, have you gone to The Hero's Spouse website? If you haven't heard of it already it's a website totally dedicated to MLC and it's every detail...and I mean every detail. I strongly suggest you go there and bookmark this in your favorites. This woman that created this site should have a doctorate in MLC by now. I go there often, because it's there I get answers to many questions, like the one you have now. Infact this same question was brewing in my head today...why on earth did he continue to have contact in such strong spurts....and leave cookie crumbs of HOPE? Especially after it's been made clear to BACK OFF?
Why does he continue to contact you? From what I understand it really is their way of staying in touch, even if it appears strictly business. What Im learning is just how emotional these MLCers are, and that all their actions are based on whatever emotion their having at that time. Which in a sense I find a good thing and a bad thing. A good thing...meaning if it's positive, they do mean it. But then again if it's negative, they do mean that too...even if what's negative is NOT THE TRUTH.
I've also realized out of my own defensiveness, I've falsely accused my Xh of doing things spitefully to hurt me, when he really wasn't. I feel that the strongest when he would do things to show he cared, or missed me, then turn right around and be nasty and spew about something. When these MLCers zip from one emotion to the next, and one random act of kindness and caring to the next nasty spew tactic, it's only normal to think and feel that they're purposely trying to mess with our minds!
But I guess their emotions are so out of control, well what you're getting it what you're getting at that moment.
So if your H was in the mood to have a good talk with you last week, thats where his emotions were at the time. Then, if it suddenly changes and he hangs up on you, well that's his emotions at that time too. If he's spewing, well that's what mood he's in. If he's friendly the next day, well that's what mood he's in. Their emotions literally have total control over them right now....not vice versa.
In regards to your conversation you mentioned.....I've had the same experience. Perhaps they sense we're in control of ourselves and are focused, and we're not in the mood to mess around. WE have control over our reactions and emotions at that particular time. Perhaps they're drawn to that in a way because quite frankly their emotions are just running so amuck they don't know what to do.
Kimmerz, I go to The Hero's Spouse website daily. You mentioned it on your thread a while back. I have found it really helpful, so thank you! Unlike our husbands, it seems that while MLCers often threaten divorce most don't file. So why do/did our H's feel the need to see it through? Is it your understanding that they believe that ending the marriage is the quickest way to the happiness they're seeking?
When I was reading about passive-agressive personalities I was reminded that these people need to feel a since of control. I wonder if that's why my H felt the need to send a follow up email outlining his requirements for the refinancing. When we spoke Tuesday I was very business like which is a 180 for me. Since I have continued NC the house stuff seems to be his excuse for contacting me even though I've made it clear that he needs to go through his attorney from now on.
My emotional episodes are getting shorter, thank goodness. It helps a lot to come to this board or cry it out with a friend instead of contacting my H when he does/says something that sends me into a tailspin. It's one less conversation to ruminate over.
golf mom,
I hope you don't mind my responding to you recent posting...
The need for divorce is because they view us as the enemy and, in their eyes, they feel they are entitled to happiness, which they do not believe they have had w/us for a very, very long time. They feel that if they are divorced, they will find that greener grass and the land of happiness. Of course, we all know that the issues will go right along w/them and that happiness comes from within.
Many will say that they are afraid to come into the house, they feel smothered or they feel that they are dying. It is all part of the anxiety and guilt that they are feeling at the beginning of the crisis. Confusion plays a role too. In order to alleviate those feelings, they run like little children from the bogey man. I did a thread many years ago on why they run. There were many excellent postings by membes of the board. You may find this thread helpful.
Also, keep in mind, they want to control their own destiny and they look at us as authority figures. People who know them and expect them to be responsible human beings. We know them like the back of our hand and the new friends/and ops will not know them like we did.
As for the follow up email your h sent to you, this is typical of them. They want to be in control and tell us what to do and think. They have completely forgotten that we do know how to think and do things on our own. Control is a major issue w/them, just as entitlement is.
Continue the NC because it appears to be helping you. You are definitely getting stronger by doing so.
Thank you so much, snodderly! Please, jump in any time. I'm sure lots of us are learning from your experience and wisdom. I think the most painful part of this for me comes from the knowledge that I've gained about MLC. I really wish my H would not have filed for D since it's likely that it will become final before he is even out of the replay stage. It seems that it may be several years before he realizes what he's done and that his decision to leave didn't result in the happiness he is seeking. I would have been fine, at least for awhile, to let this play out while I focused on me and the boys, but my H just couldn't let it be. He was adamant that because his feelings hadn't changed, and they probably won't change, the logical next step is to file for D. However, he always throws in that we have six months to think about things and change our minds.
You're right about NC. I feel more in control of my emotions when I don't communicate with him. When I have a weak moment and let him know what I want or how I feel I end up feeling powerless. Making a conscious decision to not respond to him gives me some control and subsequently helps to restore my self worth.
Regarding what you wrote about their feelings of coming home, my H has told me that he feels a lot of anxiety when he is here (although that has been several months now). He has blamed that on me and the resentment he feels (his loss of manhood while in our marriage, etc. - again that's all my fault) but from your understanding is it really that being here brings up all the terrible feelings he had which made him flee? In other words, while here he felt helpless and out of control, but away he has the illusion that he has escaped what troubled him. I would really like to read the thread that you referred to. Please post a link to that and any others you think would be helpful. I truly appreciate all of you help!
golf mom,
If you can locate your first original posting where Cadet posted the helpful links, you will find the old threads about why they run.
I've copied the links from his "welcome" posting. Hopefully they will work.
Why they run:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=67406&page=1http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...6668#Post526668
Hi GM,
I also have an MLC h and have been following your sitch and noting the close parallels with what I'm experiencing.
I just stumbled across a poster here who has described the most amazing mlc journey that I think you might get some benefit from.
It's in piecing, of all places because, despite the extremity of her partner's mlc, he came back - eventually. BUT, as she documents in painful detail, there often seemed to be absolutely no hope along the way.
Anyway, have a look at AliSuddenly's story - for me it's been a sanity-saver:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2033737&page=1
Thanks so much, NLW. I appreciate the link. I really want to hold onto hope, but it seems that so many of these stories end badly since the journey is a long one.
golf mom,
It's okay to have hope, but please do not put your life on hold. Live your life to the fullest and leave the door ajar. If and when your h wakes up, he may or may not want to reconcile w/you. Your h will have a lot to make up for and he will have to prove to you and your family that he really does want to reconcile. You don't know what the future holds for you, i.e., your h may take forever to wake up and you may have moved on or you may have met someone new who will treat you like a queen. Time will tell as to what your future holds for you. Ultimately, the final decision of whether or not you want to reconcile will be up to you if your h does broach the subject of reconciling w/you.
Thank you, snodderly. It is hard to accept that even if he comes out of his crisis he might not want me. Honestly, once our D is final I can't imagine ever wanting to reconcile. I'm not even sure how I would ever forgive him. There are days that I feel like that now. After all, when I look back at our relationship it's not that we had something extraordinary. We have a long history and children together, but that's it. Life with him, at times, has been very difficult due to his selfish behavior. A friend of mine suggested researching arrested development because of his childhood traumas and behavior. From the little I've read I think it might apply to him. I'm not sure how all of this knowledge plays into any future decisions I will need to make regarding him, but I do know that it feels important to me at this moment to be the one to accept him or turn him away if and when that time comes. After being abandoned, I want to have that choice over my life. I'm not sure why I feel that way and I realize that day may never come. In the meantime, I just need to keep living my life without him. Thankfully, I'm so busy that it's been pretty easy. However, I really want to feel joy again. I'm hoping as I adjust to being a single working parent the joy and purpose for my life will return. I'm not quite there yet. Right now, I feel overwhelmed with the realization that everything rests on me. My H doesn't seem to want to be a parent or help in any way other than financially. It sure makes NC easier, but that's it.
It's likely that my H will contact me wanting a response to the email that he sent from work on Friday. If so, what should I do? I feel so much better having NC with him, but I want the refinancing to go through. I can just see him saying I stopped the process since I didn't hear back from you. My thought is to say "I have asked you not to contact me. We had previously agreed to your requirements so there isn't anything more to discuss. From now on you need to bring your concerns up to your attorney." I feel totally comfortable saying that, but once I do I don't leave the door open for me to contact him (re kids, money) or do I?
Golf Mom,
You could tell him that the only contact you wish to have with him from now on would be due to kids or financial. Anything else is to be routed through the attorneys because that's what you're paying them for.
Hi Golf Mom,
I think your response in regards to the refinancing is perfect and you should say that.
Ok Golf Mom, this is where you have to stand firm, DO NOT WAIVER, and you make the rules on this one. Sorry but when it comes to the kids and money, DO NOT LET THEM RUN THE SHOW. You can be fair, and you can be firm, you can noegotiate, BUT DO NOT BACK DOWN. What you do now can either help you down the road or bite you in the A$$ later. I know it's so hard, but this is where you must put your business hat on and be very realistic of what your future will be down the road.
First of all, have you both come to an agreement on an amount of money (child support, house payment, etc.) he will pay to sustain you until the divorce negotiations are agreed upon? If not, my advice is to get that ironed out NOW.
Second, do you already have a routine or plan you're following in regards to his parenting time with the kids? If you don't, get it ironed out NOW.
If you can get that agreed upon, and he actually sticks to the plans you two agreed upon, then there is no reason for you to contact him ( and him to contact you) unless something out of the ordinary happens...and alot of the time it does. Life just happens and there are times we have to contact them even if we don't want to. Been there done that. But when it comes up, you just deal with it. yes it tears the heart strings, and sets you back sometimes, but that's just the way it is. Yes, it [censored]!Believe me I know and I live it all the time.
Im sorry, I can't remember, but has he filed the papers yet? I remember you saying your attorney didn't want to do anything until he files the papers?
Keep this in mind...if he drags his feet on filing the papers, you can always turn right around the file them yourself. Now I know that's not very DB of me, but I also know these MLCers will drag their feet, procrastinate, scream and yell they want a divorce because you're personally responsible for their misery in life and then turn right around and not even be proactive in their own divorce!!!!!! Been there, done that.
I tried to negotiate parenting time with the kids and timely payment with my Xh and he didn't take me seriously. He wouldn't let me know when he wanted the kids, I had a hard time making plans of my own. Our lives revolved around HIM, even after he left! He'd show up and take the kids whenever I wasn't home, make plans with them without checking in with me first, pay agreed child support whenever the heck he wanted... I mean the man was all over the place. I let it roll a while because I didn't want to cause ripples and was still wondering/hoping he was going to come home. When it was clear he wasn't going to, I took action, and he was pissed. But I didn't care. When I got my attorney involved, he listened.
Then when they come to you all frustrated because they don't want to pay money,or you're controlling all the parenting time, then the self satisfying part of this is saying " Sorry, but you made the choice to leave. You wanted a divorce. You've got it. This is reality". And let me tell you it's very satisfying to remind them that in all reality this is what they wanted but it comes with consequences that their MLC brain DID NOT think about!
They will be angry with you, go to the OW and cry about what a B**** you are,get family involved, and basically throw a tantrum like a child would when not getting what they want. But like a child, in the end they will respect you for it.
Kimmerz, there's so much that needs to be done. Once my attorney responds to the D papers then we need to do our income/debt disclosures. After that temporary support can be worked out. In the meantime, my H controls the money by only depositing enough to cover bills which he doesn't have a good grasp of. In addition to that I find it really annoying and odd that although he has his own bank account he continues to use our joint account (the one that barely has enough to cover my expenses) to purchase gas and pay his utilities. He pays for everything else out of his own bank account. What's up with that? It's like he's a teenager who wants his own car and apartment, but he doesn't want to pay for necessities like gas and electricity. When I brought this up to him several months ago he turned it into an argument, making me the bad guy again. So, finances is something that my attorney needs to get settled immediately. I don't want to have to contact him for anything, especially money.
I seriously just don't feel emotionally safe having any dealings with him whatsoever. My heart just isn't strong enough yet. There is always something in each conversation, email, etc. that throws me into a tailspin. Going NC protects me to some degree from the reality of the situation. I just need time to accept what has happened. For me this all came out of left field. The day of BD was the day he left and I've been trying to wrap my mind around this ever since.
My H doesn't see the boys at all. In fact, he said since they don't want a relationship with them he's giving me 100% custody. How convenient! What kind of father just walks away from their kids without trying to repair things? The boys don't want to have contact with him because he uses that time to justify his actions. When they've expressed anger and hurt feelings he goes into his whole speech about how he had to leave, blah, blah, blah and plenty of kids have divorced parents and they're fine. He's truly clueless.
I'm so angry that while he walks around in la la land, I'm picking up the pieces from what he's done. I think I'm really starting to hate him! I know this is vindictive, but I want him to hurt and feel scared by the reality of his actions. Sadly these men keep running and self medicating so they don't have to go there. What cowards!
golf mom,
Do you have your own checking account? If you don't, set one up as soon as possible.
As for what he's doing with the account about gas, etc., that is very odd. Try to find a bit of time to start jotting down what you spend on everything. This will you when you begin accounting for everything on the disclosure forms. Now, don't be surprised if he doesn't do one...he may drag his feet on it.
As for him wanting you to have 100% custody, go for it and do not dispute it! If I am thinking correctly, that means you will be afforded 100% child support and not half. Don't fight him on this one. I know that it is a bummer that he's turning his back on his children and he will live to regret doing it, but he will have to learn this on his own.
I am so sorry you are going through this. Hopefully your lawyer can get things set up for you soon.
OMG. Snodderly is so right. Go for the 100% child custody. Don't fight that one. He's lost and if you push the kids too hard to have time with their dad, they may resent you for that. That'll have to be worked out later. They will resent him for it, but that's for a later time.
When they've expressed anger and hurt feelings he goes into his whole speech about how he had to leave, blah, blah, blah and plenty of kids have divorced parents and they're fine. He's truly clueless.
I'm so angry that while he walks around in la la land, I'm picking up the pieces from what he's done.
Be glad you are not as nutty as he is and CAN pick up the pieces. As unfair as it is, it's better by far. Really.
I agree with Snodderly on this one. Get a checking account of your own. As the money comes in transfer it over before if you can.
I'm also sorry for what you're going through. Some tough choices. But time will be and is your friend. Protect the kids and it'll work out better in the end for you and the kids.
Perspective GM. Keep your perspective even as your head spins. There will be time enough later for the WTF moments, but for now you need to take care of those you are entrusted to take care of.
AJ
Oh Wow GM,
Holy Guacamole! But hey I agree that you must take that 100% custody because this will benefit you financially and the children.
Do you think he would agree to close the account with you and then just give you a check or just deposit that money into your new account? You can make deposits in other people's accounts without having to be on the account. That's how I pay my rent every month, I just deposit it into my landlords account.
I don't think it's fair that he puts the bare minimum in there for you and the boys yet turns right around and withdraws it for his utilities and gas. That is not cool. If he can use his bank account for other things then he can use it for gas and utilities.
Did you normally do all the bookwork and bill paying when you were together? That's what I did and I noticed that XH really didn't have a clue as to what a juggling act it was to pay all bills on time and keep food on the table...and stretch things a bit. This very well could be whats going on with your H.
Yes it's beyond comprehension as to why he would give his kids up, but remember he has MLC brain damage right now. This does NOT MAKE IT OK or his ACTIONS justified, but it's just par for the course.
MLCers get real sneaky with their money. They hide it and blow it. It was when we did our income/debt disclosure, I found out EXACTLY what he was up to. He had received over 30,000 from a family lawsuit I knew was in the works but had not been cashed in on. He received these funds directly under my nose the last year he was here. He stashed this money, blew half of it and Im pretty sure cashed out alot and stashed it in his safe. All the while claiming he's so poor and can barely afford food and it was all my fault he had financial trouble.
So be careful!
You're all right. I am better off having 100% custody of the kids. Not only is it better financially, but I will have total control over their lives without having to consult him. Once (IF) he gets his act together I am happy for him to have visitation, but it will be at my discretion and in accordance with what's best for the kids. He's in a poor me mode right now, so I don't think I'll have to deal with that for awhile. Also, kids don't work well with dating, so he's probably happy to not have do any juggling. However, his attorney may light a fire under him, especially when he finds out what this is going to cost him.
I do need to get my own checking account and I will request that automatic deposits be made by his employer so I don't have to deal with him re finances anymore. I know they can do this since I was the one who took care of all of our bills and bookkeeping. The man didn't even know what his annual income was until he stopped the automatic deposits and actually saw a pay stub. Never mind that I had all of the information neatly filed away at home for him to see any time, but it was easier for him to let me handle everything and then blame later.
Yesterday was a horrible day emotionally. I live in a small town where gossip thrives. I keep my life pretty private and don't socialize with the cliques, but yesterday word got out. A woman I haven't been friends with for five years spent the better part of her day contacting people that I now wanting to confirm "a shocking rumor." What's wrong with people? My kids and I are dealing with the worst trauma of our lives and others are being entertained by it. I feel weepy this morning not having slept very well and feeling violated. Right now I have total disgust for my H for bringing all of this into our lives. I am having to pray so hard to keep hate from invading my heart.
Golf Mom,
I want to let you know I understand. I live in a small town too and I've spent the last year wanting to hide from everyone because Im just humiliated over what my Xh has done and with who!
But remind yourself of this. This is his choice. He did this. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Hold your head up high.
Small towns gossip, that's just the way they are. You know the truth of what's going on. It's something new to talk about, and then next thing you know everyone will be on to something else in a few weeks. You're real friends will come over and say Hi and give you a hug.
Now all that anger that you feel is turning into hatred... don't push it down and try to put it aside. Let is surface! A good way to let it out is to write an email/letter to H and just keep it. One time I did send one out to XH and it felt so good. All I got in return was more excuses, emotional unavailability, and blame. Think the bad thoughts that you need to, go find a private place and say the things you need to say (driving alone is excellent for this venting session)and of course call a friend or post here and let it out! After you feel better, then pray for help in moving past this anger.
This anger stage I've been going through for a couple of months and I've had to pray ALOT. I think Im finally approaching the shallow end of anger and looking at total acceptance now. But the only way I got here was just to let my anger surface and let it out. At first my anger was so intense and big that it scared me.
Kim is right GM, let it out.
Don't be ashamed to hold your head up high, you did nothing wrong. Let them talk, like Kim said, they will move on to someone else soon.
People do get entertained in gossip especially in a small town.
I also live in a small town and my xh was the Fire Chief of our biggest department AND a Police Sgt. for our city.
EVERYWHERE I went people were consoling me, asking me what happened. I repeated myself a million times over. I didn't let it stop me from going out though.
After awhile I just smiled and said Yep he is having a crisis I guess and changed the subject.
He is the one that looks awful for leaving his family and not trying to save your marriage.
After being together for so many years I will never understand why or how someone can walk away so easily without even thinking.
I read something on the alt. Do you have a alt account?
Anyway, it said an elderly couple was asked how they stayed married for 65 years.
They replied...."We come from a time that you fix what is broken iinstead of just throwing it out" SO TRUE and THIS is how it should be always.
Hugs to you!
Renee
I'm having a really hard day. I called my H this morning to let him know that S15 said he is depressed and is having a hard time focusing in school. I knew it emotionally dangerous for me to call, but I felt it was the right thing to do. I turned the conversation to us (I know, big mistake) and learned that my H is dating (nothing serious, according to him). It hurts knowing that he's spending time and money on someone else and I'm here by myself barely coping. I asked him to work on our relationship and he listed the reasons why he left. He acknowledged that he has faults, but they didn't cause him to leave. I let him know that I've heard what he said and that I will continue to work on things that I feel need changing, but that I won't change things that I like about myself to appease him or anyone else. I also said that I felt that he focuses on my negative qualities, but has chosen not to remember what is good about me and our relationship. He said that he is "terrified" that he'll come home and eventually the same problems will come up. I asked him to start spending time with me, but he said no. He'll contact me if and when he wants to see me. How do I show him that I am working on changing (being less controlling) if we never see each other? I miss him and I'm really hurting. I don't know what to do. What if this isn't a MLC? Right now I'm feeling like it's all my fault again.
Sorry to hear that.
Of course you don't need to be told that was a big backslide.
I would delete his phone number from your phone so that it's not a constant reminder. Make yourself happy.
Hey GM,
We have all backslid...the last time I did was right before Christmas...I learned to never ask about R unless you are ready to hear the worst things you can imagine (and then some you couldn't)...I feel for you.
Did you write down all his "complaints"? I found for me it was useful to objectively go through them one at a time, and written down I could remember exactly what W said...many of my faults were valid without question, others I was clueless about, yet others were behaviors or ways of interacting that served me pretty well in my career/job, but at home and in my R with W and kids? Not so much.
Throw the list, and your thoughts on each bullet point, up here, I am sure we could help sift through things.
As far as his dating...yes, that hurts...the time and money...I have ended up financing her "explorations" and the equipment to do so since she is a SAHM. It s_cks, I know we would rather they spend that time and money on fixing the M...
Hang in there!
T^2
Sweetie, sorry to hear you had a bad day.
First things first. It doesnt really matter if it's MLC or not right now.
You still need to try to db.
And it is perfectly normal to feel the way you do. You are still so early into this.
I know it is hard to see past the enormous white elephant of your h, but, that it exactly what you need to do.
Here's the thing. You need to make changes for you. And only you. That is the only way he will believe them.
Trust me, he knows right where to find you.
So, you have to decide who you want to be. And then try to be that person everyday. Some days you make it, some you dont,but that should always be the goal.
And you need to let him walk his own journey.
I will tell you that calling him is not a good idea. He feels you are not hearing him and that you havent changed.
You become the best you. A
nd even though you dont see him much, every interaction, is a chance for him to see who you are becoming.
Who do you want him to see? A strong, intelligent, independent GM right?
Calling him wasnt a good idea. Now you know better so you'll do better.
This is hard stuff. You are going to backslide. It happens. But it really is best if you put the focus on you and your children and let him blow in the wind for now.
The only way to do this is through it.
Get to gettin'.
You can do this.
GM,
My heart breaks for you - the pain you are feeling is very real and very scary. All of the advice given to you above is truly the absolute BEST. Early on in my experience someone used the phrase "extreme self care" - this is a time in your life when you have to slow down, and nurture yourself like you have never been nurtured in your life. It got to the point where I realized that each and every interaction with my XH was truly like taking a hit of poison. People who do what our Xs do are just not right in the head. You don't treat people - especially family - in the manner in which they have. Something is not right. They act as if they have it together and know that what they are doing is right - and it leaves us feeling crazy. The absolute opposite is true. You are taking care of your family by yourself right now. Make sure to take care of yourself as well. Let yourself feel all the things you are feeling. There's not a feeling you have that is abnormal given the extreme situation that has been thrust upon you.
Personally, I read a lot, prayed a lot, cried a lot, hurt a lot, posted here a lot. Whatever it takes.
Prayers your way!
golf mom,
You've had some excellent postings about your situation. Please do not call your h unless it is an absolute emergency. This is where you are going to have to put on your big girl panties and take care of you and your children. He can't help you in any way because he can't help himself. He is emotionally all over the place and when they are like that, forget it...you are on your own.
As for relationship talks, unless you want to hear all bs reasons they walk or get spewed on, you are better off leaving that topic off the table. When they feel that they are being pressured to say or do something, they come out swinging. Please, no more relationship talks. When he's read to see or speak to you, he will. Right now, you are seen as an authority figure (mom figure, most likely) and what do teenagers do when mom wants them to do something that they don't want to do? Rebel!
GM, it's now the time to put on your big girl panties and show this man that you can be the best parent ever and that you can take care of your children and you! He knows exactly where you are and believe me, he can always sense when you are pulling away or falling back into old habits. It takes time, but you will develop a tougher skin for his bs and you will get stronger. For now, no more calls or texts unless it's an emergency. Anything to do with the divorce...allow your lawyer to do the work for you.
P.S. We all have done the "backslide" more than once on our walks along the Yellow Brick Road...don't beat yourself up over it.
I'm guessing that one of the reasons letting go is so hard is that I have a need to control out of fear. This is one of my H biggest complaints. I'm really trying to understand this need and where it comes from. In my M I thought of myself as just taking care of what needed to be done, but in my H's eyes he had no say in anything. I believe he's doing a lot of projecting, but there is truth in what he said. This is one of the reasons he says he is afraid to come home. He believes that I will be different for awhile but will gradually fall back into old habits. This is an area of growth for me that will serve me well the rest of my life. If anyone knows of good books/articles on this I would really appreciate some recommendations. This is something I had started working on in therapy and learned it came from my fear of abandonment.
I'm going to need to pray every moment I can to get through this day.
golf mom,
To some extent, it is a fear of losing control, but I also think it is the fear of the unknown and what the future may hold. We all have experienced it and you are not alone in this. It takes time to let go of the fear, but you will do it. Right now, every is in a blender and it is getting mixed and beaten to death. Step back, take each day as it comes, keep your goals/aims short for now. Tackle each task one by one and do not try to do all of them at one time...this is where you will become exhausted and overwhelmed.
What your h said about returning home and things reverting back...that is mlc jargon. Tomororw, he would come up w/another excuse and so on. Don't take the glass of kool-aid he is serving up!
Keeping it all together right now is so hard. I'm able to focus at work, although everything is in the back of my mind. When I get home I just burst into tears. I don't know what's going on with me. I haven't been this way for months. S12 is out to dinner with my H. He deliberately picked him up before I got off work so (I'm assuming) he wouldn't have to see me. Both of the boys are seeing him on Sunday. So there's been some progress with their relationship and I'm glad about that. It does hurt, though, that I know he's dating (don't ask questions that you don't want to know the answer to) and he's making time for the boys and I have no one to take care of me. I miss hugs, "I love you" and our time together. I'm feeling the pressure of all the mom stuff, working and dealing with the D. I miss my old life terribly.
Golf Mom,
If you lived close by I would invite you over to my house for coffee and a good crying session. Along with a long talk. I feel for you so much, because your sitch is darn near identical to mine in so many ways.
I've felt exactly what you're going through and still do to this day! Being slammed into single parenthood is not fun. You think you can handle it especially after being a SAHM for many years. My Xh slept all day and worked all night, so for the most part I was a single mom even though I was married. But it's still hard, because Xh is not here to talk to about the kids. I also have made the choice not to speak to him about the kids unless it's necessary. So I find myself facing some things completely without him, but I just get through it. It's a learning lesson.
I've come home day after day for an entire year ( up until the last 2 months) to go stay in my room and cry or just be still and let the pain wash over me. Working was a struggle with this being on my mind all the time. It has worn me out. Keeping up the professional face and pace, while inside you're dealing with the searing emotional pain. Coming home to our children is bittersweet. It's a comfort to have them and a joy to be with them, yet meeting their needs under such stress is hard and even adds to the stress more. Then the steps of divorce, meeting with the attorneys, paper work, etc. Watching our marriages come apart, piece, by piece, by piece. Memories, good and bad.
I know, I really really do. The only advice I can give is ONE DAY AT A TIME. Sometimes ONE MINUTE AT A TIME. There were times I just wished I were dead, I really did.
My divorce is final. I made it. It was the hardest thing I have ever gone through. But I did make it, and I am so much better for it. Im still walking, still learning, and still hurting a little bit at times too. I got myself through it, and my kids. And the only way I did it was one day at a time.
You all have been so great with your responses, so please don't be frustrated with me when I tell you that I called my H again. I'm really not as pathetic as I sound. I wanted clarification on something that my son told me. I guess if I'm honest, I used my concern as an excuse to call. I really need help interpreting what my H said and whether I really did kill my marriage or if this is a MLC. He said that my refusal (his word, but not true) and our debt caused him to feel suicidal and want to leave. True, I should have gone back to work sooner, but I thought we were on the same page with how we were decreasing our debt and our overall long term plan. How could he seemingly be happy all these years and then just walk out one day and forget all of the wonderful things about our marriage and family? Does this sound like a MLC or just another marriage gone bad? He said that when he left he had a lot of resentment toward me and now he just feels indifferent. Is that good or bad? How do I DB in this situation? I really want my H back. He also said that it's really hard for him to hear me upset and that he's been trying for months to just go on with his life, but when he talks to me it's painful and he's distracted again. Something else that I've noticed, when the conversation turned away from our R and we were telling each other work related news it was just like it always was, two friends sharing their day. What do I make of that?
Kimmerz, is there a way to privately share contact information on this site?
Sweetie, there really isnt anyone on here that would be able to tell you definitively if it is MLC or not.
Follow your gut on that one.
Let's for now say that it is. First things first. There is nothing wrong with you feeling as you do. This is tough stuff, real tough.
You are blindsided and feel like you got hit in the gut.
I will tell you this, though. The sooner you begin to detach, the better you will begin to feel.
I know it seems impossible, but, it isnt.
You did not imagine your years together. Your h is in crisis.
He cant understand what is wrong. So, he lashes out at the person closest to him. He thinks if he can get out of the marriage, then he'll be happy. When that doesnt work, he will try something else.
Until he realizes the problem is inside of him, he will continue to seek ways to stop the pain.
Now, you can do two things. You can continue to call him and ask him questions. But that will result in more of the same of what you are getting.
He is thinking - see she doesnt hear me, she doesnt get it, she hasnt changed. It's more of the same.
Now that might seem crazy to you. But to him, it is very real.
And you trying to figure out what everything he says means - well, that will just have you spinning in circles.
You need to show him that you hear him. And then you need to leave him be.
I know it's so very hard, having all this on you. I do.
But, that is the way it is right now.
So, put your marriage safely in a box and store it away for now.
I know it seems unbelievable what I am going to say to you. But, if you choose to walk this journey, I promise you that you will come out the other side forever changed. Stronger, wiser and the person you were meant to be.
So, honey, please stop calling him. He is telling you some very important things. He feels bad when you call. It is pressure to him.
It's best to let him to try to slay his demons on his own. And everytime you do things like that, you slow down the process.
Make yourself a promise that today you are not going to call him and you are going to start to look inward.
Hit a pillow, go in the car and scream. And then, do one thing for you. One small thing.
Make sure you eat right, rest when you can, pray if you are so inclined.
You can do this. One step at a time.
Can anyone tell us how we can exchange personal info here? I tried to send G mom a personal message but it says they're blocked. Is this something we can do to our profile?
Also I was hoping I could friend some people on FB....I take it we have to privately exchange that info and then find on FB?
Golf Mom,
Go ahead and send me a private message here on the boards.
If you don't know how to do that, just click on my name and then choose "send pm". My settings are to accept private messages.
BTW if anyone else wants to send me a PM here, i don't mind.
Golf Mom,
You are grieving and grieving takes time. There were times when I cried until I made myself sick...but I knew that I had to put one foot in front of the other in order to pull myself out of the dark hole. Do not fight the tears, feel the pain and then let it go. Get a pillow and beat the crap out of it. If you have a flower bed, make a point to go out and weed or hoe it to death. You need to do something physical to help you get rid of the pain. Take a drive and pull over somewhere out in the open and just scream. All of this will help you.
As for your h, he's in crisis. He's going to say anything for an excuse and guess what? You are always going to be the one he blames. If the sky is purple, you will be blamed. If the grass turns pink, you will be blamed. He isn't capable of looking within to see that the problems is w/him and his issues. That's why I continue to tell you to stop taking the glass of kool-aid he continues to try to give you. It's bs, plain and simple. You know what your marriage was like and you also know that your marriage wasn't perfect, but you both were doing just fine until the crisis hit. Refuse the glass of kool-aid...it's no good.
I mentioned on someone's thread just recently that if you are having discussions w/a spouse and you are discussing something they do not like to hear and they begin to spew, change the subject and they will change into civil human beings again. As you've noticed, as long as you stay away from relationship talks and talk about other items of interest, he remains civil and it's like old times. They can't deal w/relationship discussions right now and it throws them into a spewing tizzy.
Here's the deal, we all have done it and we all have had to learn to do the exact opposite. We think that running after them and trying to convince them to come home and work on the relationship, i.e., that we can change or do whatever they want...this would probably work in a normal situation, but the crisis is not a normal situation because it's not dealing with a rational individual who is using their brain. These individuals are in crisis, emotions are the key player, therefore we must do the exact opposite and allow them their time and space to work through their crisis. I have found that you can't get an emotional person to see the light until they have completely settled down. Just as a person in crisis becomes the opposite in personality, we, too, have to begin doing the exact opposite...which means let them go and do not pursue them and try to convince them to return home. It will not work! The more you pursue him, the harder he is going to run from you. That's why it is important to not contact him unless it is an absoltue emergency and one you can't handle yourself.
I know you are in pain and miss him terribly, but you do not want the man that he is right now back home and in your life. He is not the man you knew and you would have so many problems w/him. You would be on the emotional rollercoaster each and every day, i.e., walking on eggshells around him. It is better for you that he is not around you 24/7. At least you can begin to get your balance once again and feel "safe" in your own space. It is vital that you begin doing at last one thing each day for you. Pamper yourself for you are a wonderful woman and you will get through this in time. Time is your friend, not your enemy in this situation.
Kimmerz,
I don't believe the "PM" feature works. At least it didn't work a while back. Many of the posters continue communicate off the board via th "alt."
Today I'm going to track down some natural remedies to help with insomnia and depression. Until I get myself under control I'm not going to be able to see my situation clearly. I can't stop crying and I'm just overwhelmed with guilt and grief. I keep thinking if only I had worked, been less controlling, etc. my family would be in tact. I can't go back and change things. I have apologized, expressed deep remorse and asked for forgiveness. All I can do now is move forward and continue to work on myself. In the meantime, my H seems to be putting on this persona that he's wealthy. Apparently, he wears flashy jewelry (never did before) to go along with his Mercedes convertible (a purchase he made years go without discussing it with me). He's also cut his hair differently, lost weight and wears new clothes, etc. I keep getting a credit card bill every month on a card that use to have a zero balance. I don't open the statement since I'm not on the card, but I can tell there are several pages. So, if money was a trigger for leaving why is he buying jewelry and running up a new bill? Why is he creating this false front? Why is financial success (even if it's a farce) so important to him and why would he want to attract women that way? I would think mostly younger, inexperienced women would fall for all of that. So, once he hooks one of them, then what? It's all a lie. Also, how do you build a relationship when a false front was the attraction? This is all so unbelievable to me. Does he really feel so terrible about himself that he is creating this new imagine that he can feel proud of? In the meantime, somehow I have to start fighting back (not for him, but for me) and make myself into the best, most loveable person I can be.
Forgive me for all the subsequent and somewhat repetitive posts. I have all of these thoughts going through my head that I'm trying to understand. My H's spending habits don't match up with his concerns about money, then or now. As I look back, he bought a number of expensive (although used) cars that didn't meet our familiy's needs. When we were working on getting out of debt and I was trying to keep us on a strict budget by meal planning, cooking every night, cutting out extras, finding free activities, etc. he would buy expensive tickets to sporting events, kept his gym membership, bought the boys things they didn't need, brought home dinner for himself if he didn't like what I was serving and on and on. So, who wasn't working as a partner? He claims me, but when I think of what I did as our household manager which included ways to significantly reduce our debt (which I continue to do) I'm not so sure. Also, did he see all of this as controlling when all I was doing was finding a solution for the problem? I continue to live frugally while he's seemingly doing the opposite. How does he rectify this in his mind? Is this typical MLC behavior? If what he really values is a practical, conservative lifestyle then why is he running from me and putting himself out there in a way that would attract women who are impressed with financial success? Is this going to blow up in his face? By continuing my responsible financial practices, while continuing to work on myself, will I be the one he's attracted to in the end? Does anyone have a crystal ball out there, LOL?
golf mom,
You are experiencing shock right now and your mind is running on high speed. What you are seeing is a man in crisis and money is no object to him. This is one of the signs of depression as well as part of the mlc. He has now become the mirror image of the man you knew. In other words, the exact opposite.
All you can do is work on yourself and that means everything you do now is for YOU, not him. It doesn't matter if you stand on a street corner w/a tin cup or you are living in a mansion, because your h will continue to see you and the relationship that you shared as the problem. He sees you as the one that is holding him back. His crisis is his and his only and you did not break him, therefore you can't fix him. Please, please understand that you didn't cause this problem and no matter what you did or didn't do, it will not bring him back right now. You can jump over the moon or lay golden eggs and it not bring him back. Any changes that you make now, will have to be changes that you are satisfied w/and will need to become permanent in your life. The bottom line is to live your life as if he will never return or he's on another planet. No one can predict what the outcome will be and how long he will be on the Mother Ship. He will work through it at his own pace and unfortunately, by the time, if he ever does, wake up, you may have moved on and do not want him back into your life on a full time basis.
Please, please try to keep the focus on you and your children. There is absolutely no rhyme or reason to his behavior and trying to analyse every word or action is going to drive you absolutely crazy. You have to take care of yourself so that you don't become ill from the lack of sleep, food and stress.
Thank you snodderly. I'm printing your post and will carry it with me as a reminder of where my focus needs to be.
golf mom,
You are going to be okay, but you have to take care of yourself. Just remember...challenges bring opportunities.
I understand where you are emotionally and it's tough and scary. The question that was put to me long ago was "what would you do if he had died"? I would have had to find a way to go on and create a new life w/o him...that's the question that got me in gear to do the necessary "me" work to make me whole and healthy once again.
You will get there too...it just takes time.
GolfMom
Snodderly has given such sage advice and wisdom...please take it all to heart. It's 100% accurate. Many, if not all of us, have felt the same way as you, and concentrated only on what we think we may have done wrong. Would've, could've, should've...none of those are what you should be dwelling on. Dwell on the will, can and need to...dwell on the now and the future, not the past. None of us can go back. None of us can fix what we didn't break as Snodderly has said.
Mine became a mirror opposite also...as I would imagine the majority of our WAS did. And there is no timeline, or no definite outcome to any of these MLC.
You start, today, to plan for yourself and your family. This isn't the way you planned or wanted your life to be right now..but this is reality. And you need to accept that there's noway around it other than right through it. Trying to analyze his reasonings/actions will do no good(although it's almost impossible not to want to try to)
Please take Snodderlys advice and take care of yourself. Emotionally, financially and with all the support offered to you by family, friends and your 'family' here.
I purchased some natural supplements to help with sleep and depression today. I took a nap and went for a long run. I feel like I'm fighting for my life. Please pray for me.
Hi Golf Mom,
Snodderly is giving us the best advice. I find that we will hear these words of truth and wisdom such as Snodderly so lovingly gives to us, and it's such a comfort and relief to hear this, because it's true. Then next thing we know we're right back to our minds spinning into over drive with the " I should've, could've, could've, would've" thoughts. Then we feel burdened with horrible guilt, sadness and depression. Heck that happened to me today and I started the day out great!
I do know when we can get the sleep deprivation and and anxiety under control things seem to add up better and we can think more clearly, and have more insight to things. I've battled depression/anxiety for years and I had to go back on my antidepressants during all of this. For some reason they didn't seem to start working till I combined it with some 5-htp and Valerian.
Kimmerz, you described exactly what I go through on a daily basis. One minute I'm reading posts on this thread and I'm reminded that this is not all my fault and the outcome is out of my control. The next minute I feel terribly guilty for reasons I always state (should have gone back to work, been less controlling). I feel like I killed my marriage and my H's love for me. Now he's dating and showing other women the attention that I am so desperate for. This pain is unbearable. I want to take action, because that is my nature. I am praying for patience and asking God to work on me and my H. With growth I feel certain we can have the marriage of our dreams. I've made big changes with the biggest being my new job. My H doesn't believe the changes will last. This is where I just have to trust in God to give me opportunities to demonstrate to my H that I am different and I continue to work on being the best that I can be. I will no longer point this out to my H or look for ways to show him (contolling and manipulative). If the changes in me are now a permanent part of who I am then it will become clear to him, naturally, during any future interactions we have. Gradually, I hope that he will trust these changes and believe that I made them to better myself and not to get him back. Until he trusts me he will not believe that he can be happy if he comes back home. Even then it may be too late. My H knows and has said that I am a great person and a great mom. He could never accuse me of neglecting our family or home. He knows that I am loyal, faithful, honest, etc. I take care of myself and am athletic. My H also knows that I love him and that he can trust that love to be unwavering. Someone new might be younger and exciting, but what I have given to my H and my marriage all of these years is so much more than that. However, if my H is really looking to unburden himself from family life there is nothing I can do about that. Maybe he will be happier or maybe he won't. I just know that no matter what I am going to continue to be the person that I've always been, with improvements of course, and that I am someone he can trust with his heart.
Well, so much for the sleep remedy that I bought today. I slept for 30 minutes and have been wide awake ever since. Besides reading here I've been writing mantras on index cards and taping them to my bathroom mirror. All of the sudden I have a burst of energy like I could clean my whole house. What in the world is happening to me? Am I ever going to be able to get a good night's sleep again?
golf mom,
Everything you are experiencing is normal for what you are going through. From your posting, it sounds like you may need to find an outlet for some of the energy you have. I found that when I was on the "high" side of things, that I could clean my house top to bottom and then I would fall into bed to sleep just a couple of hours. It took quite a while before my mind would stop racing...this could be what is happening to you.
I do hope today is a better day for you. Pamper yourself a bit today if you can.
BTW, you may want to start a new thread before Jack comes along and reminds you to do so.
Morning Golf Mom,
Please remember you are going through the grieving period of being a LBS. This is a severe emotional trauma. Remember that it takes time, and alot of it to move through these emotions.It's also 2 steps forward 3 steps back during this transition for us LBS. Do you have an EAP at your work? I suggest if you do, get into counseling for yourself. I took advantage of my EAP at work and Im so glad I did. I wish I could've gone longer, but I could not afford 125.00 a session. But it sure put my on the right track to help myself.
You and I are just alike in how we feel about being left. I too felt like I killed my marriage. I mean how else would we feel? Our husbands stood before us and told us every reason under the sun as to why they were miserable, and guess what? It's all our fault as far as they're concerned!!! We are compassionate, empathetic, and responsible people. When anyone comes to us and points out a mistake we might have made, what are we going to do by our nature? When something of this magnitude is dropped on us, it's too much to bear. Add a few co dependent issues (I've had them) on top of this, and well here we are. Rock bottom.
I take it he told you he was dating other women? Or did you find out another way? It was when I found out XH was with the OW that I hit rock bottom. I went through a PTSD period. Not sure if you're familiar with my past posts, but this OW's ex husband tried to kill my Xh 4 years ago. All in the name of an affair my Xh denied ever having with her.
I then went through the insomnia and adrenaline blasts that you're going through right now. I would go like that for 2 -3 days and then literally just drop of exhaustion and sleep deprivation. I had to consistently take my sleep meds before it got into my system enough to help me sleep better.
One thing that I discovered through this and still must remind myself of is that the MLcer and LBs are literally on two different planes of existence when these things happen. The MLCer's perception of the marriage and life with the LBS is significantly different and skewed compared to how we perceived it. They've also been living in this "false" reality for a very long time, probably years. And a belief is a thought that we keep thinking. So given this is what they've been feeding themselves for so long, they truly believe what they tell us.
What is so disturbing to me about all of this is how indifferent these MLCers are to our heart break. I mean they acknowledge we aren't happy and have some guilt, but truthfully they have no clue as to what we're going through. They don't have a true clue because right now they're only focused on themselves and what they can do to get where they want.
One thing you keep hearing over and over here is to GAL. In my experience, GAL is whatever you want to make it. But first and foremost I feel a person has to go through a certain amount of grieving before they're even able to start GAL things. Don't push yourself to start doing all these things to GAL unless you're ready to and want to. For me, I just had to let a certain amount of grief go by before I could even entertain the thought of leaving the house. In my case when Im horribly stressed, I become agoraphobic and have panic attacks. I need to be in my safety zone unless it's necessary and I can't be. So for me getting out and just walking around the block was a challenge. Going to the store, or just taking the kids to the park was not do able or only for a few minutes then i had to be home.
If the MLCer ever starts to see things in our point of view, it will only be after the MLC has run a good part of the course, and reality has smacked them upside the head a few times. Life always finds a way, and I feel that standing back and letting nature take its course is always the best teacher. It's just extremely frustrating to stand back and wait for it to happen. But it always does.
I'm wondering if the dose of 5HTP that I took for depression is where the boost of energy came from. I need to read more about it and the reactions/side effects. As usual, I only slept for about four hours. This is so frustrating. Abandonment definitely causes PTSD.
Kimmerz, thanks for your thoughts on GAL. I tried yesterday to find a new activity through "Meetups" and after awhile I just started sobbing. I'm not ready. When I started looking in the "single parent" and "separated/divorced" categories it hit me that what I went through in my 20's I will be doing again at some point if I don't want to be alone for the rest of my life. I so don't want to do that. When my H and I started dating and became serious I was so glad to be out of the dating scene and never wanted to go back. Now here I am at a time (age/circumstances) when that is least appealing. I will start incorporating activities that I was already doing (league golf and tennis) before BD. I started running again several months ago, but not consistently. I'm short on time and energy.
My H has been a little different than many MLCers. When I had a total breakdown on the phone with him on Friday he explained some things that I wanted clarification on and then said he wanted to get off the phone before his weekend is ruined. He doesn't like to hear or see me upset. He said this process has been really hard on him too. When I made the big mistake of ending with "I love you" he said I can't tell you what you want to hear right now. I told him that I wasn't wanting or expecting anything in return. What's the "right now" about? I sense that he really wants to continue exploring single life for awhile and doesn't want to deal with any guilt or interference from me. He does seem to care about my feelings. On some level he remembers that I am a good person and didn't deserve this, so it makes me wonder if all of this is about getting older and running out of time to see what's out there under the guise of my faults drove him away. Any thoughts on all of this? I know he needs space and I must give this to him. I must let him explore even though that evolves other women. It hurts a ton, but when i start thinking about it i immediately say somthing to myself to remember who I am. No one can take my place. If my H wants somebody different there is nothing I can do about that and it doesn't mean that something is wrong with me. The mantras that I wrote last night are posted and I will read them every day. One is "Change = Hope; Do the opposite of what comes naturally [when dealing with H]. Any suggestions? Now I will work on affirmations.
I will start chapter 2 of this thread later today.