When I dropped off D at the W's place today, I was greeted with a scowl. Apparently a bartender who I work with (like once a month) has been spreading a rumor that we were reconciling. The W accused me of telling him that we were which I have never talked to him about our relationship. Anywho, apparently the OM was told the rumor and that coupled with a text I sent W regarding a time of dropping off D must have ruffled his feathers about their relationship.
She is now telling me I can't text her anymore. Which I only had texted her for emergencies or change of plans only.
She also demanded that I "fix this", meaning the rumor, although I had nothing to do with it, and call the mediator to find out a cost. I told her to call the mediator herself if she wants to know the cost, but I won't be able to afford it for a couple of months.
I kept calm the whole time, but I really am getting sick of her calling the shots and pushing me around. I would laywer up but I don't have the money and she really could steamroll me if she decided to file as I can't afford representation.
We agreed on being cordial, but she apparently has changed her mind.
Last thursday her grandpa died and she requested that I bring D to visit her parents when it was my holiday with her. I was nice and gave them 2 hours, which they were grateful. She also has changed her hair color back to it's original color. I wonder if the death of grandpa and the demotion is making her think.
Anywho, just venting. I am currently looking at gyms to get back in shape and enjoying every minute of my time with my D. She is 16 months old and started to say "I missed you" and I love you" to me. She really is starting to communicate!
We agreed on being cordial, but she apparently has changed her mind.
Tested,
If this didn't happen to you too, I would feel cheated.
The bottom line is the MLC'r has no mind, at least not a stable one.
MLC'rs as a whole will probably not be cordial most of the time.
How can they be cordial when there is so much turmoil in their minds?
Selfishness and narcissism is the total OPPOSITE of cordial, so this is totally expected of someone going through MLC.
WS
lol WS...
Yup, my W started with the "at least we can be friends"... changed her mind... "I'll never pay the cost for a SA"... changed her mind... "co-parent"... changed her mind... and again... and again...
As far as cordial... hadn't heard from my W in almost 2 months... I tell my mediators that I'm concerned about trying to negotiate with her... they (innocently enough) they relay that concern to my W... and I get a two page email attacking me on every front from bad parent to she doesn't have a bf (I haven't accused her of that for 6mo) to my job hunting skills and effort...
Yes tested... I agree with WS... I'd be concerned for me if this wasn't "normal" for other MLCers...
I think that what bothers me is that I truely wonder if she is in MLC, is a complete B, or have I done something to deserve this???
I am doing my best to keep a PMA and I have detatched quite a bit, but even when I folow "the rules" I still get burned. I know, I know... welcome to MLC land.
I almost just want to give up and start fresh with someone else. But the W will still be in my life for at least 18 more years.
My hats off to you all who have dealt with this for more than 2 months... you have to have the patience of a saint!
She will be in your life forever.
You have a child together.
Maybe patience is something you need to work on?
Two months?!?
Hun, there are folks here who have been dealing with "this" for years! And yep ... my hat goes off to them too!
Pride's a beotch huh?
You can't get burned if you detach ... that's a lesson I took a while to figure out!
PEI
Tested My Heat goes out to you, I can fully understand your frustration with your W..
Understand this when they are in a crisis they do NOT think like a normal person they can not look past their own nose.. she has many issues going on in her own mind, she feels anger, she is confused, she will be forgetful, she will be up one day and down another, she will be nice at one point and be nasty the next time..
Now for you this is going to be hard to deal with, BUT if you no longer feed into anything she dishes your way, If you no longer react to anything she says, If you no longer feel it's about you, is when you will start to detach from her and all her emotions...
If you just look after yourself and your D, I promise you not only will you feel better but your eyes will start to open and see that she is in her own hell and all you can do at this point is let go of her, let her go on her own journey and while she is off in LALA Land, take care of you and your D.. Now I am NOT saying to give up on your M I am just saying Give yourself a pat on the back, give yourself credit, and take sometime for You...
You said you are looking to find a gym to Join "Great" do something For You, Make yourself feel good at this time, If you do start to detach from it all you will down the road see changes in her....
I wish you well
and that should say my Heart goes out to you..
Hi Tested-
I think it is normal to blame yourself- I know I have (I am only 3 months in since his bomb). But I am slowly realizing that it has NOTHING to do with me. Unfortunately we get the brunt of their nastiness because we are there- but it is not about us.
Detaching is the easiest way to make it not hurt so much- but that is hard as well. I have been praying for just enough detachment to get through each encounter. And I think it is working. Keep taking care of yourself and your D.
So W's birthday is coming around the corner and X-mas is too. I am wondering if I should get W a present from D (since she is too young to get one herself) or just let it be. I know for myself, if I feel like it, I would only get her a card for her birthday. She is really touchy right now so I really want to just lay low.
I hate these no win situations.
Thank you for all your advice. I know I need more patience. The funny thing is I am usually a patient guy. I am way more patient than W ever was, I know that for sure. I am trying not to take W's venom personally.
I am trying to use the Love and Logic approach with my W in setting boundaries with her. It incorporates a lot of what has been taught on these forums. I realize my W is not a child, but acts like one. I will empathize with her when she vents and validate her feelings, but will stick to my guns on my boundaries if she pushes it. Sticking to my guns is a 180 compared to what I used to do when she would try to push me into doing something I would not like to do.
So W's birthday is coming around the corner and X-mas is too. I am wondering if I should get W a present from D (since she is too young to get one herself) or just let it be. I know for myself, if I feel like it, I would only get her a card for her birthday. She is really touchy right now so I really want to just lay low.
From her ?
Or from you, through her ?
For me ?
A piece of paper, a box of crayons....
or my personal favorite...
FINGERPAINT !!!!!!
Keep it what it is , nothing more, nothing less....
A child is usually unable to buy a present for their parents all on their own. A child usually isn't the one to remember the day of a birthday.
That falls on the other parent, come what may, no matter what, despite everything, your wife is the mother of your daughter. In this, you have a responsibility. It is not you giving the present, it is your daughter, it is a lesson she will be learning. To give.
Take the higher ground, no matter what. No matter if she doesn't do it for you on your daughters behalf. Feel good in doing the right thing...not for your wife, and not for you, but for your daughter.
Mach's idea is awesome.
As is $5 and letting your daughter pick out a trinket.
My father still has a craptastic plastic horse that I bought for him when I was 5, he hates horses but I didn't know that when I was 5. I have a flashing plastic skull on my keychain from my youngest son.
I am way more patient than W ever was,
Duh...
The impatient types don't last long...if they ever even post.
You don't know the depths of your patience..yet.
But you will...you will.
TM I am was in the same boat this week. I have been S going on 7 months tomorrow. All my friends and my therapist also comment on my patience. Which I feel I have to have a ton of to see what happens with my W our separation her OM and our kids, its not a fun time. Surround yourself with people that will listen and take your mind off the situation.
This past weekend I had my 2 kids which was a great distraction except when they went to sleep and I would think about W. Since it was first time apart in 12 years. Her bday was this past monday. I had my kids do leaf rubbings and trace toys for her. Then got pics printed and put there faces on the drawings. She liked them.
My kids also gave her a pair of earrings that they picked out. Nothing expensive. All I gave her was a card and a few of the extra pics I had printed out. She appreciated it.
Everyone here told me to do what I felt was right. What she got for her bday from the kids was just enough and she enjoyed it. I got a smile and a thank you via email later on.
Now I have to figure out the holidays and what to do.
Go with what you feel is right. ACmoore has a foam pic frame and you can buy stickers to let your D put around it for her mom. My W liked that one year.
Good luck
Thank you all for your suggestions! They are very helpful.
I misspoke. It has been 3 months since separation and over 1.5 yrs. since the 1st bomb. The burners really got going about 3 months ago and don't seem to let up.
Anyway, I plan to get W a card from me with just a plain Happy B day in it. As for the D's gift, I was going to get it on her behalf, not for my own. I realize this is a teaching moment, but I was afraid that it might be seen as using D to give W a gift and possibly having it blow back at me with the D witnessing it. (W is that unstable right now).
I have decided to do the homade gift idea anyway. I respect that W is the mother of my child and although I do not really like her right now and abhor her behavior, I still need to teach my child to show respect for her and others in her life.
JB- I love your Yoda like teachings!
Mach and Witz- thanks for the great ideas!
Tested you have to do what feels right to you when it comes to giving her a gift from your D, When my H first left I gave him a Christmas gift from our son along with cards, I also gave him gifts from our grandchildren, a few months after I gave them to him he came to our house to pick up our son he opened the trunk of his car to put something in it, And there sat the gifts that were given to him not even opened..when I saw it I said nothing to him But that was the last time he received anything from my son for a few years, I did not bother buying anything for him for his birthday or any other holiday, Until I saw him move along in his crisis.. of course 7 years later things are different and Him and I now give each other gifts on Birthday's and Holidays... At that time my H was to just starting out with his crisis and he had no interest in anything to do with me or his children or his old life.. he was on a new adventure and wanted no reminders of us, that is why I believe he did not open them,,,,
So do what feels right to you.
I will give her the gift from D and it is her choice to accept it or not. If she does, great. If not I will not be offended, but will hold on to it for her until decides she wants it. My guess is that is that she may feel guilty, but she needs to deal with that.
I will continue to honor Mother's Day, her birthday, and Christmas with gifts from our D and expect nothing in return. I never was big on receiving gifts anyway and never expect gifts.
I feel better now that I have come to a solution of what to do. Thank you!
Well i was just informed yeasterday that we are having an emergency meeting at work and they are switching our health insurance. I informed W that since this is a window for me, I would be dropping her for insurance and just insuring D and myself.
She responded that I "was required to keep the insurance until the divorce is final" and that her work will not offer her insurance until February. Keep in mind when I required her to pay her half of the cell phone bill earlier, she got another phone with OM and left me to cancel the phone and pay for the cancellation charges. So I am thinking I don't want to make that mistake again and be forced to pay for her insurance for longer than I have to, only to have the opportunity to mess with me again.
There has been nothing legal written and no lawyers involved.
I want to drop her so I can afford to save up for a lawyer in case I need one.
I think she trying to cake eat with this issue but wanted opinions.
Will the health insurance fees between now and Feb 1st truly impact your ability to pay for legal counsel?
She responded that I "was required to keep the insurance until the divorce is final"
The truth is, she is more than probably correct.
Most companies will make changes for "life changing" events. I.E. Marriage, having a child, and in some cases....Divorce. I'm not sure they will change anything for stupidity though.
I would get your information together for the cost difference of having her on the policy, and not having her on the policy.
Talk with her about paying the difference between the two until she can branch off on her own. Then tell her you plan on dropping her in February.
Although you have already peeved her off , and this will become more than just about insurance now.
Look at it this way...
IF....something were to happen to her, and you were still married to her. Yet you dropped her on your insurance.
You would still be financially responsible for her bills..
Now....which taste better ?
That ?
Or the foot you just stuck in your mouth ?
Sorry but you don't understand.
Basically if I keep her on, then I am stuck with her on my insurance until we get divorced. (which I don't know when that will happen, because i can't afford a laywer even for stipulated divorce and she is needling me for a divorce). Even if she insures herself in February, I can't drop her.
When we first separated she was gung ho to get her own insurance, now she wants it. I want stability in this area. If I drop her I would save about $191 a month, which is much needed right now.
She is just waiting to have enough money to pay for a retainer and will then demand a stipulated divorce or she will proceed with me unrepresented.
The way I see it this might be the only way to start protecting myself and save for a lawyer. At least I could save faster.
No, I do understand....
The question is....
Are you legally able to remove her from your insurance right now ?
Until you answer that, then there are no decisions to make.
Also ... I know insurance differs greatly between our counties BUT I would be very surprised if you are not allowed to remove her in the event that she secures insurance elsewhere. I'd want that in writing. It doesn't make legal sense.
yes, I can drop her due to being "within the window", where you can add or drop family members.
Also we are switching to a whole new insurance company so i have the right to accept or reject the insurance and choose who is covered.
Part of me want to drop her because it would make me more financially secure and I would be able to protect myself.
I also realize that her demanding things of me is a hot button as she has pretty much bossed me around throughout our marriage (more than the average :)) and i would bow down to her every whim. This would be a 180 for me, but probably would not bring her closer to me.
Part of me wants to keep her on in the hopes that she'll come back...but that is not detatching.
Sorry Mach, but i wrote the 1st previous e-mail as you posted yours.
Thanks for the advice.
The problem is I can't drop her in February then. My only chance is tomorrow.. or wait for a divorce... unless I file, which i can't afford to anyway.
No....
Once again...
LEGALLY.....can you drop her ?
I have heard of cases where one spouse has dropped the other through this and they end up in court, paying arrears for the insurance they were legally required to carry....
LEGALLY....
Are you able to drop her ?
I think she trying to cake eat with this issue but wanted opinions.
If you ask me, I think it is more about this (and I don't think you want opinions, you want someone to tell you that it is okay)
I understand that your insurance company will allow you to drop her...
But I seriously doubt that if you end up in court, your insurance rep will be sitting on the bench....
Thanks Mach for the heads up! I decided that I will keep her on just in case. I do really value your people's insights as i am a guy looking from the inside out and I need someone looking from the outside in.
Although I am not happy with the results, it is better than the possible alternative!
And you are right I was looking for validation, but so far I have been tagged as a guy who has been too caring enough not to look out for his own needs. Just needed some grounding.
Thanks!
And you are right I was looking for validation, but so far I have been tagged as a guy who has been too caring enough not to look out for his own needs. Just needed some grounding.
So why is that ?
Why do you say that ?
Is that your image of yourself ?
Or is that just the way you think the world sees you ?
I say that because that is what other people have told me in the past and keep telling me today.
This may be a stupid example, but for 4 years I sacrificed a lot for our marriage. I would wear the same beat up shoes, used any money I got for gifts to pay for CC bills that the W had racked up, instead of getting the shoes that I really needed.
Granted, $40 for new shoes may not be a lot to save compared to a $2000 bill, and I probably should have gotten the shoes, but the $40 compounded with all the other money and things I had sacrificed starts to add up. I never expressed resentment about this during our marriage, but it seemed that I was more giving in the marriage. This was visible enough for mutual friends to notice.
Granted, not taking care of myself was my choice and now I am living with the consequences of my choices.
That is why I want to change that and do a 180. Actually stand up for myself. The problem is it seems like everytime I try to, there is something in the way that would come back to haunt me. (Such as W having no insurance, getting sick, and me getting the bill).
Is that something that you like in yourself ?
How does that make you feel when you "sacrifice" yourself for others ?
I like that to an extent. I feel like W used me as an ATM and a credit line more than a husband. I know.... this is probably MLC and it is mostly about her issues, not me personally, but it still hurts. Like I have stated before, there are days that I am sure it is MLC and days where I wonder if I am just hoping it is MLC... most likely so I won't have to be accountable for my sortcomings. (I just 2x4ed myself.. but it was needed.)
Not really an answer to the question, Captain Avoidance
You have mentioned this more than once, and anytime there is repetition , it rings bells.
Is that something that you like in yourself ?
How does that make you feel when you "sacrifice" yourself for others ?
I do like to sacrifice for others. I feel good doing it. I like making a change for others, and I like that part of me.
The part I don't like is that in "sacrificing" I come across people who take advantage of that.. (I know, I know that is part of sacrificing, just do it and be happy or don't do it at all). It would be nice if once in a while some gratitude was shown. I am not expecting gratitude everytime I sacrifice, but I also don't want to feel like I am treated like the gum on the bottom of a shoe. I feel hurt if I think someone is taking advantage of my generosity repeatedly. This can only be changed in 2 ways.
1. I either change my thinking about it and stop complaining. or
2. I stop sacrificing and let the person deal with the problem themselves.
The problem is that in the marriage her problem became "our" problem.
I am not trying to avoid the question, I am just having a hard time explaining it.
So....
Just to summarize a little....
"Gifts/Acts of Service" would be your primary Love Language ???
And that you feel loved in that manner ?
But you SHOW love that way, other people around you don't always show you love that way in return ?
Is that almost correct ?
Actually physical touch is my primary love language, which is probably why I am taking this affair so personally.
I show love mainly through acts of service, which I now realize may not be her primary love language (just read the book last week).
I am not expecting people to do things for me in return. Receiving gifts is like the least priority on the list for me.
I just want some recognition once in a while. Well not quite recognition, but if I am sacrificing something for someone, I would hope that they would not waste the fruits of the effort.
For example, the shoe thing. She knew that I was sacrificing to get us out of debt, but she would continue to blow money on boozing, buying expensive clothing (that she didn't need or hardly wore), etc. That kind of thing now feels like a slap in the face.
I would hope that if someone saw me putting in some effort to solve a problem that they created (such as the debt), they would make some attempt at putting forth an effort to also help solve the problem.
But maybe I am crazy and asking too much.
Actually.....anyone that hasn't been laid in a while can manipulate PT as their LL.... : )
So what is it then ?
What is it about you, that feel compelled to give something in order to feel good about yourself ?
I'm not saying that it is wrong by any means....it's just not making sense to me.
It's almost as if you are "buying" people, to like you.
WTF....I like you, and I haven't seen my check yet.
TM, This is a good start to your answers.
Maybe you are right and acts of service is my love language.
Or maybe I have such a low self esteem that I feel I need to do nice things for others so they like me. I know that I am always afraid of looking like an A-hole even though people frequently tell me I am the nicest guy they have ever met.
Maybe I need to be more assertive. I certainly don't want to "buy" people to like me. I just want them to like me for me.
But maybe I don't like myself right now. I am constantly criticizing myself lately for this mess and I feel horrible because if this isn't MLC then I MUST have been such an A-Hole to have someone basically flee from me and into the arms of someone who is much older and is highly unstable, and emotionally abusive. I know this line of thinking is not correct. Not everything is so black and white.
But knowledge and believing it are too different things. That is the difference between what you know and what you "feel" in your heart.
Maybe I have let this affair and W's actions get into my head too much. I am detatching the best I can and trying to take care of myself, but I am still "handcuffed to the madman."
Is that a maybe ?
Or is that how YOU feel ?
It is how I feel. I am feeling so many conflicting feelings right now that I feel confused. I am starting to think that I am going nuts!
I guess it makes sense that as a child I was made fun of and beat up on a regular basis. The friends I had were nice, but I got bullied a lot during my childhood. Even my father was an anxious person who yelled a lot. (I do get a little anxious myself, but I don't yell.) I think that probably has affected me more than I would like to admit.
I now speak softly, worry what others may think of me (to a certain extent), I am a negotiator and a very sensitive person. (sensitive to other's needs as well as my own). That is probably why I am not as assertive as I need to be.
As a child I decided to go with my strength which was intelligence. I would learn everything I could about nearly everything and I became known as the "smart kid" or nerd to others. To this day I still am known as the guy with all the answers. I feel accepted when people ask for my opinion or help with something.
I think that this is really bugging me because I can't find an answer to this. I am also hurt by being rejected, just like childhood all over again.
I feel helpless. I realize that there is nothing I can do for W or the marriage. I just have to work on me.
Like I have stated before, there are days that I am sure it is MLC and days where I wonder if I am just hoping it is MLC... most likely so I won't have to be accountable for my sortcomings.
First and foremost...
MLC or not...
You must be accountable for your shortcomings.
We all must be accountable for our shortcomings.
So don't think that MLC let's you off the hook for anything...
Funny thing...
I could have written alot of what you have written this afternoon.
I am the smart one. The one that people come to for answers.
I am kind and a giver. It is in my nature to nurture.
It is who I am. It feeds my soul.
However, it is also an easy scapegoat excuse for when I don't want to give to someone.
"I am always sacraficing...it's someone else's turn"
And it is an easy way to justify not doing for someone, when you want to punish without it looking like a punishment. Instead, it can come across as doing something for yourself...
It also allows us to step into the "victim" role very easily...
Are you a victim?
From your last post, it seems that you were victimized often during your life...
It also appears that is how you continue to see yourself...
For the moment, let's take a leap of faith and say that there will be no more wondering if it is MLC or not...
Let's say it is...banish that question from your mind...
What about you still needs to be worked on?
What about you do you want to change?
How can you begin to do that in your life, not within the context of your M?
I need to be more assertive and stand up for myself.
I need to be able to accept that not everyone has to like me and it is not necessarily my fault all the time.
I accept the fact that part of me does want to punish W for hurting me and I don't really like that part of me right now. I am working on changing that.
From now on I will set boundaries with others and do things because I want to, not because I feel I have to. If I do a generous act then it will be because I want to for the sake that it is a generous act and nothing more.
I need to make sure that this mess will not affect my relationships with others or future relationships regarding trusting them.
Hey Tm and Cat,
I just wanted to thank you for what you posted today. I say this because I see alot of my stbx in your words. I have tried so hard to understand that man, before he left, after he left, and still 3 months after we quit talking. I've read the 5 love languages and knew his was Acts of Service. AFter reading what you posted, I can see so much in him and appreciate what validation it's given me. Now I've got the compassion for the MLCer all over the place....because I undestand so much more now!
TM his past was much like yours.I feel for you, and felt for him. I too realized his Love Language was acts of service.
And Cat I did see in him that he also used the act of sacrificing all the time as a way to not do anything to punish others but to punish me... oh how to punish me.
Yes setting boundaries and working on becoming assertive will be so empowering for you TM! I encourage you to do that.
I get the idea that you're passive when it comes to communication, is this correct?
Thank you for sharing. I appreciate it. It's helping me!
I am passive in communication, but do speak up if something truely bothers me enough.
For instance I would not speak up how it bothered me if W came home at 5 am. after being at the bar for fear of being seen as controlling. She would ask me permission to go out and stay out (not that i demanded permission or controlled her at all), and I would constantly tell her that she doesn't need my permission. She was my spouse, not my possession.
It seems like maybe she was cueing me to keep her in check by saying no, but I wanted her to be home with me, to be with me, not because she felt she had to. The aggressive part came in when she would return home so drunk, she would run to the bathroom all night and puke, or ask me to put a garbage pail by the bed. I finally told her if she was going to get that drunk then she was on her own with taking care of herself. I also didn't think she was setting a good example for our infant daughter and asked her to please reduce the drinking and come home earlier.
Finally, she just kept doing it more frequently to the point that when I started requesting she stay home because I was afraid that she would just repeat the same routine; She would promise that she would limit what she drank and would be home by a certain time. She would still come back home drunk at 5 am. She had already started her affair and didn't care.
If i would have not been so passive aggressive about the ordeal it probably would have been better. (at least it couldn't have hurt)
This story is not so much about what the W did, but how my role with sending mixed messages had played into our problems.
I am glad this is helping someone. I would like to thank folks for listening and challeging me, because I need it. Thank you!
Hey Tm,
I don't see you being passive aggressive at all in that situation. The action you took was setting a BOUNDARY, and that was healthy!I can tell by your words you're still taking alot of blame. I've been through this so I know. I think that when we first look at ourselves and find where we need to be accountable, we tend to become overwhelmed with guilt.
One way I looked at it was that I was welcoming my mistakes, and paying attention to them. I looked at what role they played in the dynamic of the issue we were having at the time or the overall relationship. Hind sight is 20/20. Remember we all do the best we know to do at any given time.
My take on passive aggressiveness is someone purposely being passive, yet using it to retaliate back at you, or control you.
A classic example is when a person may get frustrated or upset with someone, but choose not to express it at all. Instead they decide it's best to stay silent,cold and distant.... for very long periods of time. The other person has no idea what's really going on, but knows the other is upset. When asked there is either no answer, rude comment, or it's brushed off.
Withholding affection or not reciprocating affection when you're angry with your partner is another. Once again the partner can tell something is wrong, but doesn't understand. Once again upon asked, it's an excuse of " nothing", when there really is.
Another is not taking action or stepping up to the plate purposely in situations when you know it could be helpful to someone else.
We've all been upset and said " nothing" alot when we were upset. I know I did it because i was so mad I knew i was going to blow and needed to get my emotions in check and control before attacking any issues.
I don't think you're behavior contributed to anything she was doing in regards to going out and getting drunk. Remember she's an adult and controls her choices. She made that choice and it wasn't under you're control.
Thanks for sharing I really appreciate it. Do you still feel like her Love Language is Acts of Service?
FYI Mine are Words of Affirmation and Physical Touch. I now know that we tend to give out what we want to receive. STBX seemed to think A big screen tv, brand new computer, and new cell phone last christmas would somehow get me to reciprocate and act of service I think.
As much as I loved those new toys, what I really wanted was him to hug me, and say something kind to me. This is where it gets "tricky" and dysfunctional. As I want Physical Touch and Affirmation, I give that to him. Yet he rejected that, time and time again... for months this would go on. He then told me right after moving out that he rejected me because he was scared to get too close for fear of me rejecting him. Passive Aggressive? Complete break down in communication? Emotional Abuse? All of the above? I don't know.
But what I wouldn't give for him to have been able to just have found the courage to just talk to me about it, and be assertive.
I need to be more assertive and stand up for myself.
I need to be able to accept that not everyone has to like me and it is not necessarily my fault all the time.
No TM, not everyone has to like you.
However you don’t have to be a jerk to people either in order to be assertive.
What does being assertive look like to you? How do you define it?
I need to make sure that this mess will not affect my relationships with others or future relationships regarding trusting them.
This is going to affect your relationships with others. Hopefully in a positive way but that is up to you…
It seems like maybe she was cueing me to keep her in check by saying no, but I wanted her to be home with me, to be with me, not because she felt she had to.
If i would have not been so passive aggressive about the ordeal it probably would have been better. (at least it couldn't have hurt)
This story is not so much about what the W did, but how my role with sending mixed messages had played into our problems.
While this story may be an example of your mixed messages, it also puts the focus for your passive aggressive behavior squarely on your wife’s shoulders.
I can’t say that I agree with her actions, but I definitely don’t agree with yours either.
You attempted to mind read what she was thinking and feeling and expected her to know what you were thinking and feeling without honestly communicating that to her and then you became upset with her when she didn’t meet your expectations, when she had no clear idea of what they were.
Which is similar to what our MLCer’s do prior to the bomb, when they don’t tell us there is anything wrong in the M, however, suddenly they “tried” for months to years, and now there no chance at working it out…when the LBS had no idea the M was in trouble …
I would have bet that my LL was Acts of Service because I am a natural giver. It is not.
Truth is, it doesn’t matter why I give…
What matters is HOW I give and what I expect in return…
How I react if my expectations are not met, and how I react if they are…
How do you react?
Is it in a way that you can be proud of or is it with manipulation?
i think mine is Physical touch but somehow I show love through acts of service. That sounds confusing but I truly feel loved when i get hugs, kisses, and I am a cuddler. I used to have to always ask for hugs from my mom as a child and I felt so loved getting them, so i am pretty sure that is my main language.
I think that I express love through Acts of service though. Probably because I learned that from my father. He would always work so hard to provide for us and we appreciated it.
As for my W, I can't really say what her language is. I think it is somewhere between quality time/ receiving gifts. She would complain a lot about not having enough time together, mainly due to us having to work two different shifts with no chance of changing it unless we switched professions.
As for the gifts, she always has to know what she is getting for birthday, Christmas, etc. and would pretty much complain if I did not bring home flowers every week. I did not bring home flowers because we could not afford it.
I used to make things for her when we first were dating, but I ran out of ideas and we both got busy with work and life. It's hard to keep coming up with that stuff.
Anyway that is about all I can come up with regarding the Love languages for now. It'd be nice if she took the assessment on the web site and gave me the results, but we all know that ain't gonna happen.
A classic example is when a person may get frustrated or upset with someone, but choose not to express it at all. Instead they decide it's best to stay silent,cold and distant.... for very long periods of time. The other person has no idea what's really going on, but knows the other is upset. When asked there is either no answer, rude comment, or it's brushed off.
Withholding affection or not reciprocating affection when you're angry with your partner is another. Once again the partner can tell something is wrong, but doesn't understand. Once again upon asked, it's an excuse of " nothing", when there really is.
Kim,
Maybe I misunderstood, but this classic example is exactly what TM did with his W that he is identifying as passive aggressive behavior...
While he could have established a healthy boundary within the situation, he didn't because he didn't honestly communicate his needs prior to establishing the "boundary", it wasn't really a boundary, but a tactless act of passive agressivness, similar to a kid throwing a temper tantrum in a store...
He wanted his W to just simply gleen what to do from the smoke signals that he was sending her way...
While he did not force her to make the choices that she made, he contributed to her NOT making the choices that would have made him happy by choosing NOT to communicate his desires to her...
Communication is a two way street...
None of us are mind readers, no matter how long we have known someone...
Communication needs to be ongoing throughout the duration of any R and sometimes, we have to ask for what we want and need in order to receive it, regardless of what our love language may be...
I agree Cat. That's why I told the story. It was to show that I am aware of my own shortcomings and how MY role affected the relationship. I am not proud of how i handled that and I am working on correcting that in the present. I was not trying to blame my W for what went on, but how my passive aggressiveness was not a good thing and is not excusable. I was trying to show the consequences of my actions.
The story may have been a bad example, but this is the most glaring example I can remember doing this.
I guess it makes sense that as a child I was made fun of and beat up on a regular basis. The friends I had were nice, but I got bullied a lot during my childhood. Even my father was an anxious person who yelled a lot. (I do get a little anxious myself, but I don't yell.) I think that probably has affected me more than I would like to admit.
I think this certainly set the table for a behavior pattern that you haven't recognized yet.
How did you finally avoid being beaten up regularly ?
It reminds me of the old school bully thing, where one gets threatened for their lunch money. After the first few times of getting a knot on the noggin, they just start giving the money over to avoid getting thumped. It became easier to do that, than to have the knot on the head or the black eye.
After a year or so, it becomes a joke, and eventually goes away. Right up to the point that the pattern has been set for behaviors the rest of someone's life.
That person is actually taking control of the situation by directly handing over the lunch money instead of opting for a beatdown ( and losing the money anyway). Albeit in a passive manner. They have "thought" through their problem in a way that eliminates any physical contact, or communication on a level that they are uncomfortable with.
As a child I decided to go with my strength which was intelligence. I would learn everything I could about nearly everything and I became known as the "smart kid" or nerd to others. To this day I still am known as the guy with all the answers. I feel accepted when people ask for my opinion or help with something.
Accepted ?
Loved ?
Or just not messed with ?
I feel helpless. I realize that there is nothing I can do for W or the marriage. I just have to work on me.
You do understand that the best chance you have IS working on you.....Right ?
I avoided getting beat up by joining a seminary and moving to a school in another city and starting anew. Sounds like avoidance. I guess I have been doing the same pattern of avoiding conflict.
I felt accepted. Usually when I am with a group of people, unless they are my very close friends, I feel like I am an outsider looking in. Especially around those known to be a little insensitive and make jokes at another's expence.
I also like not being messed with (of course) and I am sure that if pushed to far I come out as aggressive because I don't want to deal with it anymore. (Explanation not an excuse).
I came to the realization last night that my "being smart" actually is authoriarian too. I took a Narsisctic Personality Inventory just to see where I would land. I had a 12, which isn't bad. 20 and above is bad. Celebrities average 18. Anyway, it also scored the kinds of narcisissm and I had 8 of the 12 points in authority, meaning I like to look like an authority figure. Pretty sure that didn't help the marriage. Pretty sure it may no be helping my relationships or possible relationships with others either.
I realize that working on me is the best chance I have for a future relationship, but I have started to accept the notion that I may not have a chance at rejoining with W. I am doing this searching for me and me only.
I plan to appologize to W today for my passive aggressive behavior because I feel I need to, because it is not only the right thing to do, but because she deserves it. I need to hold myself accountable for that. I expect nothing in return.
Hey TM,
Wow this is really big. I really appreciate you sharing this.
Where did you find this test?
Kimmerz,
I got a 9 just now on that test. That does not surprise me.
Google is your friend.
WS
Kimmerz,
You have to google it as I can't give you the site here. I can assure you that the test is legit as it is close to the inventories I give my clients at work.
Thank you all for helping me get this far by challenging me and making me think.
Um, I just took the test. I was very aware of how different my answers were since I've put so much work into my self-esteem and stepping out of my wallflower role that I lived my life doing for so long. As a result, I'd have scored in the single digits had I taken that test when I was pre-bomb. Taking it 18 months post-bomb, with all the doctor appts, work on myself, and help from this board? Now I'm an 18. So...did I create a monster? I was really high on leadership and self-sufficiency...0 on vanity and exhibitionism. So is that a bad thing? It suggested I look into getting help. Really?? ;-) Now I'm not sure what to do because for me, I wasn't as far "along" in terms of building my confidence that I thought I should be....
Incidentally Tested metal, I just noticed you said you took "being smart" to be authoritarian. I think this is why I scored that high there too. The one thing that my parents drilled into me from childhood was that I was smart, and then the harder I worked at what I liked in school, the more I accomplished. As someone in education it's part of my "job" to be smart, to be seen that way, and I'm not comfortable not knowing what I'm talking about standing in front of people.
I'm trying to think, how do you balance this. I guess in a relationship, it's not good to come off as "the smart one", or "smarter than" your partner, as you can be condescending, even unintentionally, or have that aura of entitlement. I can recall times I came off that way, but for me, my XH was just lazy. As in, if he put his mind to something, he would do better than me. He was gifted, high IQ and all, just very lazy. This would drive me nuts. It seemed to me like wasted talent.
I guess that's where I was supposed to be non-judgmental and say whatever, if he wants to waste his brain, let him.
But I don't know...can a relationship really work if two people are not compatible intellectually? See, I have a sister who is incredibly bright, and her H is very average, doesn't read anything and has no interest in books or films or anything, and they just really have very little in common. She will tell me "hey, you don't have to have a rel. with a guy who is intellectual" but I don't think I'd ever be able to make that sort of rel. work.
Antonia-
I think it is normal for someone who had low esteem and worked hard on it to exhibit some traits that might be on the high end for a while. I think that people on either end of the spectrum who are working for the middle will dip on the other end for a while. It is part of finding the balance. Don't discount your work but realize that balance takes a long time.
I stated before that the test is pretty similar to the ones that I give my clients, but remember they are very similar, not the same. The ones I give cost $50 a piece and have a ton of validity studies behind it.
Just think of it as a conversation piece/ something to think about, but not something to hang a diagnosis on.
Thanks for clarifying that! But yeah, J3B once said something about how if you read something and it gives you an uncomfortable feeling, there is probably a reason, and I think it's that I know I could come off as authoritarian with XH...just something to think about for the future I guess. I don't see me do that with other people for the most part, but if I tend to do it in a rel. with a man, it's something I would like to work on :-)
Antonia,
I think that making the rel. work is entirely dependent on the people in the relationship. If one person values intelligence higher than another and won't accept the person for who they are, then it will be a problem. I have seen tons of couples though who are "opposites", but they make it work and have a healthy marriage.
Incidentally, I was very disappointed in my W's life choices as she chose rather to be in a job with no future than to use her degree and get a job with benefits, etc. That was my value though, not hers and although I didn't like her decision, I supported her with it, even helping her get her 1st job in the town that we live in.
I never had the feeling of entitlement, and believe in working hard for what I get, but i can see how my actions are condescending. I was just so disappointed that she would not see her potential and fulfill it. My expectations could have been to high too.
Interesting that you said that about supporting your wife with her job...I was actually very supportive of my XH NOT going back to school and just being the best he could be as a middle school teacher. He was basically happy at the job till the school districts everywhere started to de-specialize teachers and just make them teach very basic stuff, and his specialty was then not part of state testing anymore and he couldn't do what he wanted/liked. Well, that stinks, but it was out of his control...had he gone back to school, he might have been able to specialize again. But he was such a slacker in college that he'd have had to retake classes at the undergrad level to get into the MS program in his field, and even though he could have done so for free at my college (a job benefit of mine), he said it was too much work and he was too burnt out. I got that, so I never pushed him to go back. The issue for us was that he always saw my job as so much easier than his and then if I complained, he'd get angry and say I didn't know how good I had it. Well, I know, but I also worked really hard for it and had a grad degree. My expectation for him was if you're not happy, then change it. I used to even encourage him to leave his job for a year and go start a whole new career, living off my salary. He wouldn't do it. So OW actually teaches the same subject as me but she's got 5 years experience to my 19, and she's in his school (i.e. "his level.")
It's like, I know I could come off a high horse when I got frustrated with him, and I think I should have curbed my complaining. I did have it "better" in many ways. But I doubt it would have mattered. I guess it comes down to ambition. I'm someone who tries to fix a situation and find a better path if things aren't working, and I'm ambitious, but he just isn't. He loves to complain. You can give him 100 solutions to fix something and he'll just keep saying it's all pointless and do nothing but tread water.
It's funny, being aware of "how I can be" with someone who wastes intelligence now, I really have tried to just be open to dating men who are "not as smart as I am", but I can't get past it. I don't mean they need the degrees I do either, because I know some incredibly smart people who speak and write beautifully who never went to college at all and some with college degrees who are practically illiterate. But I've found that when I meet people I do make a lot of snap judgments fast if someone uses really poor grammar or does not bother to write simple, complete sentences. I guess I've just never come across someone with compatibility to me in most areas if those things are off.
Then again I also rule out men who hate cats ;-)
Well I appologized to W about the passive aggressiveness. She then told me that she had to switch her work schedule around for the holidays so she can take D for 5 days to her parents for x-mas, so I had to switch my schedule around to accomodate hers.
I told her that my schedule was already set and that I would have been happy to accomodate if I would have had notice sooner. She then used the "I guess you don't want to spend time with your daughter before she goes then." I told her I'd be happy to take her overnight for the days she had to switch, but she needs to make arrangements during the day as I have to be at work. I also slipped and called her out on her passive aggressive statement of using the D to make me feel guilty. She just smiled.
I guess we'll see how this goes.
I noticed that I had been answering the phone and texts right away when she called and she has been coming up with these last minute requests for me to take care of D everytime, like I have to drop everything I am doing to accomodate her. I am going to start to set a boundary with this. I need a little bit of a life too.
I want time with my D and would be happy to have her, but I need more notice and I have informed W of this.
Change is hard, but I am willing to do the work.
I think i am starting to detatch more. I have finally have set in my mind that my W is "dead".
It may sound crazy but I pretty much imagine that she is the 6 feet under type of "dead" as I know she will not ever return like I knew her.
I now picture her present self as the evil, B@&*^@q*&TY, crazy twin sister who has joint custody of D. When I think of it in that light I somehow feel relieved because it seems less personal. It is also easier to set boundaries with her when i think of her this way.
I am even begining to look her straight in the eye as before it was too painful.
I am hope this is the beginning to turning a corner in my life and I am ready to start working on me.
In the next week, W will have D for a week sans x-mas eve, so I am going to use that time to be on vacation, work out, do the things I want to do, and go out with friends at least once.
Another funny thing is that all of a sudden, all of my friends that I had pre-marriage and lost contact with during the marriage are contacting me out of the blue. This is really weird. It is like my life is coming back full circle to before I was married and it is just landing in my lap.
W texted me twice in an hour this morning asking to "talk." Then she called. I did not answer. She left a message crying saying that it was not an emergency and that she missed me and to call back if I want to.
I will not call back. I have learned from others mistakes. I still have more detatching to do as I felt the twinge in my gut when I heard the message and part of me wanted to call.
I am sticking to my guns.
She called again today! I let voicemail take it. She opened with reporting what time I can pick up D form her apt. tomorrow. She then said that she wants to be friends and be friendly to each other. (I have been the whole time).
Anywho, I am keeping my head down and having no unnecessary contact with her. I am cordial and friendly but am keeping dark.
If I am out of line please let me know. I am doing this for me as I don't want to get hurt again. I am trying to keep off the rollercoaster and have sat down on the curb.
Wow! The rest of the story.... So I responded to W via e-mail saying I got her message and would pick up D at said agreed time tomorrow and nothing more. I got a text from mutual friend/landlord reporting that W was having dinner at my residence with her and then later when she left. I was at work during the time.
Apparently W overstayed her welcome; made an excuse to go downstairs where I live to get D's clothing (long story) and spent an extraordinary long time down there. (maybe spying) ?
Then she tells landlord that she Kicked out OM because he made an ultimatum that she either spend more time with him and less with D and her friends or he would leave. She apparently kicked him out.
This almost convinces my theory that W is co-dependant. As she is already seeking my comfort of 2 other guys.
As for me, I am keeping low as I know this is only a hiccup and I will not be the one to hinder her journey by taking her back too soon as I did last year.
I have been GALing pretty good so far, sans the information thrown at me today, but have not let it affect my decision of going back now.
It is funny that she has decided to do this now. I just got done confiding with landlord last night (who is totally on my side and is pro marriage) about my getting closer to getting closer on her choices and that her being like I knew her is dead to me. It is almost like W sensed it and decided to throw a wrench in the system to test me.
(For humorist reasons) I now see the MLC as a zombie. THey were once the loved one you knew and look like them, but aren't them anymore. You have to let them go. They still want to eat your brains/suck your soul, but don't let them.
Remember if an MLC says they want to "pick your brain" that might be a signal to get the heck out! :P
I now have the voice in my head that says "Don't let them pick your brain , Ted." ( My name's not Ted; it just sounded good with the phrase.
Tested
THey were once the loved one you knew and look like them, but aren't them anymore.
May come a time buddy when you can look back on the good times while at the same time not caring if they are a zombie or not.
Eric
I had a great x-mas with my father, daughter, and my new step-family. I made sure to make a connection with new step-sisters and step-mom.
It's funny, because I am used to being in a family with all boys, it is refreshing to have sisters now! They also give me the female perspective which is nice.
I had my daughter for x-mas eve and we had a great time. W was digging her heels in that she wanted to have Daughter from Dec. 22- Dec 28, but now she is asking if i want to take her on the night of the 28th. I already have to work that night so i declined. It seems like just another power trip for her.
I am enjoying my vacation and I have been busy working on things I have neglected in the past such as cleaning and restringing my guitar, getting back to the gym for exercise, and general cleaning of my place.
Happy holidays to all!
Ugh. Some "friends" decided to impart knowledge on me that W has been using her saturdays to go to hockey games with OM. Meanwhile she is telling me she has to work the nights that she is going out. The problem is that she has figured out a way to get me to have D for the night, even though I have to work those nights until 2 am and D wakes up at 5 am half the time leaving me with very little sleep.
Here's her MO: W asks friend that I am staying with to watch D, while she is "working" until 2 am. W knows full well that I would feel guilty and it makes no sense for her to pick up D at 2 am., transport her to her place, only for me to pick D up at 10:30 am. I want D to be safe and get her sleep, but I would like to get sleep too. Maybe I got to suck it up. If it wouldn't impact D, I would set a boundary. I guess I should just enjoy the extra time I have with her.
Apparently the OM is still living with her (big surprise).
As for me, I noticed last night that I have some huge suppressed anger towards W because I am feeling very used by her actions. When I have my own place more detatching hopefully will be easier.
I have decided to join a gym today to let off steam and for my own good health. On another good note, people now have been coming up and complimenting me on how I am dealing with this and how snazzy I now look. Apparently I got some fashion sense knocked in to me and didn't even know it!
1 more day and I get to see D. I am stoked! I got all her new toys set up and can't wait to roughhouse with her!
The exercise felt great!
So W texted me an hour ago asking if I wanted to go out to dinner with her and D to talk about her work changes. I can't because I am taking care of D and friend's 2 kids for the night. No problem there.
My question is how would the rest of you handle the situation if she asks again?
Personally, I am so burnt by her right now that I don't want to see her for a while. I need to work on me. I also don't want to burn that bridge of having possible communication in the future either. I just don't feel ready yet and the holidays are making it worse.
If I went to dinner I would have to have no expecations, but I think that honestly I would be expecting her to be done with OM, which I will never have proof of that happening. I also don't want her cake eating with me.
Any thoughts?
Separate checks ?
What CAN you handle ????
What can you handle without expectations ????
It would be definately separate checks.
I would prefer she either call or send e-mail. I am just so sick of the lying and I am working right now on letting my anger off in a healthy manner that I don't think that now is the time to be talking to her in person besides the 5 min. drop off/pickup with D.
I would prefer she either call or send e-mail. I am just so sick of the lying and I am working right now on letting my anger off in a healthy manner that I don't think that now is the time to be talking to her in person besides the 5 min. drop off/pickup with D.
So, you are worried about how YOU would come across ????
I think that is a very valid point you have realized.....
And maybe you have your answer....
And maybe use that time, working on how you get past that....
Thanks Mach!
I just think it is still so fresh and I am still angry about how she has treated me. I need to detach more and if she is still around to talk after I have taken care of myself then so be it. Otherwise further damage may be done, to both of us.
I am also worried about getting hurt again by some cockamaimied thing she'll come up with next. But I guess that is my choice whether to feel hurt or not by it.
Today W was very pleasant. She wanted to talk about her new job and discussed taking over medical insurance for her and D. I asked her a couple questions about the coverage, which she kept saying "I Don't know."
I told her that I wanted complete info. on insurance coverage before handing over health insurance responsibilities for D as I need to make sure that it was the bast decision for her.
Lately she has been acting like the W I met and married. Today she showed up to drop off D without the nose ring. She also is getting a job which has benefits.
I am pretty sure the OM is still in the picture though and I am very cautious as I am waiting for the other shoe to drop.
As for myself, I exercised again today and felt great. I also have let the voicemail take W's calls as she has been calling and texting me like crazy regarding D, but it is about things that have either already been discussed or could be sent via e-mail per HER request. It seems like she can't even follow her own rules! Go figure!
I am feeling better about standing my ground about what i want to do. I also have been looking at past posts and see the roller coaster ride I am still on and am trying to work on myself to get off the rails! I am proud that that am noticing my own pattern of keeping on the coaster. That might be the first step. I still have a LONG way to go.
Hello all! I figured today instead of me B*&)(&thing about W's behavior I would do something different and in the spirit of New Years post my goals/"resolutions" for this year. As vague as some may be....
1. Exercise 4 x a week.
2. Drop weight to 170 lbs.
3. Drink more water and less pop.
4. Go to confession.
5. Go to church weekly.
6. Start a budget.
7. Clean and restring guitar.
8. Save for an apartment deposit.
9. Set firm boundaries with W and stick to them.
10. Pray everyday.
11. Practice guitar 4 x a week.
12. FORGIVE!!!!
13. Educate self for higher licensure.
14. Apply for and obtain a better job. (if possible)
15. Bleach teeth.
16. Make a will.
17. Get life insurance for D and me.
18. Explore the source issues of my anxiety when asked to do something in short notice that changes my plans.
So a question for you all...
Today I heard a rumor from reliable sources that OM proposed to W this week with a big engagement ring. I also heard that he was b%*^&*ing that her dad bought her a new car, which he can't compete with. I also heard that he said he would never marry again) after 3 times already).
My thought is that if W wants a divorce, she should pay for it. She wants a stipulated divorce, which i can't pay for already so why not make her do the work?
i don't want to seem as controlling, but seriously, this is something i do not want, and I can't afford it.
She has been pretty friendly lately to me which makes me wonder if she is buying into this....
As for me i am keeping to my goals and am feeling good.
Goal #19. No matter how much I hurt regarding WAW's actions,and if others start to talk about WAW's actions with me,
NO MORE WAW BASHING!!!
It does me no good; only makes the situation worse; and puts me in a mindset to divorce.
Not sure where you're question was from the other day Metal.
But if it was: "Should I help her get a divorce?"
If you don't want one?
No.
No help at all.
As for the OM and rumors?
Similar to your #19 goal, it does you little good and ruins your frame of mind.
You dwell on him and he starts living in your head.
Is he a POS? Yup, is he the lowest of the low? Yup...yup yup yup yup. Look I'll agree with almost everything you say about him, but if you're letting him in your head? You're losing here.
Attacking him also does you little good. You don't need to point out that poop smells. Everyone knows that.
Last night I had an epiphany. I was called to the ER by WAW because D had a fever of 103 degrees. Long story short D has ear infection.
As I was there with WAW, I had no feelings for her. This was the first time I have been with her more than 2 minutes when we exchange D. My main concern was on daughter the whole time.
WAW told me aout what she got D for x-mas and I listened. All I did was listen.
When I got home I realized that I was so afraid of losing WAW, that I have been letting my life work around HER schedule and wants. I also realized that why am I afraid of losing something I don't have already? It was that moment that I decided to truely GAL, for ME.
I think that I took walking through that fire of fear of spending a little time with WAW to know if I could handle it or not.
Today I completed goal #7 Restringing the Guitar. When the strings stretch I will start to play it.
I decided to look at gyms by next week and get a membership.
The main thing is that I decided to FINALLY put my M in God's hands, since it is out of mine anyway.
I will not push for a D, unless I want it and feel ready for it. I will stand for my marriage.
I also realized that I will not accept stagnation in my career. I have now been aggressively pursuing my higher licensure by doing what is in my control, which is meeting the education requirements. If my employer is not able to help me with the necessary supervision, (which they would if they had appropriate supervisors in the area) I will either find the supervisor my self or get a job where they will assist me towards this goal.
These are big changes for me, but are much needed. I am very excited about this year already!
Interesting.. I have not been answering calls lately and when I have it has been sporadic at best. The interesting thing is that WAW, after giving me the riot act about texting her (yes it was an emergency at the time) has increased her texting and calling everyday, and requests that I call her "If I want too." She is acting like the old W, but she is still wearing the brand new ring from OM and is still seeing him.
Is she just curious? Peeping out a little?
Part of me wants to have contact with her to keep communication open, and half of me wants to crawl under a rock and just be left alone.
Right now I am taking it day by day and doing what I want, not worrying what she thinks about me or what I am doing. I don't want to seem cold either though.
Suggestions? How do other handle this in their sitch?
Well today at work I took a little quiz and it turns out I am passive. Not passive-aggressive. I know that this is how I was raised and now see myself acting like my father... (sigh).
I am proud of myself today because a friend told me that WAW is telling everyone she knows that I was abusive to her. (Yes physically and verbally). I am proud because my reaction was not to be defensive, but having one of empathy for her.
If people think that I am abusive, then they really don't know me and aren't really my friends.
It sounds like a lot of the people now have turned on her because of the slander. Oh well, that's the consequences for her actions.
As for me, I have been enjoying playing my new PS3 with the Move controller with my friends. Letting out some frustration by hitting them out of the park. I also have been having a lot of quality time with D. She is growing up so fast!
Saturday, when I dropped her of at daycare, it was the first time she did not cry or have to be distracted. She just smiled at me, waved, and said Bye, Bye Dadda!
That moment was bittersweet because I have been preparing her to get to that point of independence, but when she got there, I felt a little less needed for a moment (and I liked that feeling).
Oh well, life goes on.
Tested,
Your W's words are so similar to my W's words. Its like they say here in the forums, all our situations are similar yet so unique but they are share the same darn script. My W threw me out of my home and moved in OM shortly afterwards not even asking my kids how they would feel about it. Shes currently not working, dropped out of school and living off the goverment. Anything that my kids might need, I buy it myself. I was throwing allot of $ at her every week and it she was spending it on OM and partying. She thinks that the kids are more than happy with OM living in the house with them. Of course, they tell me a different story.
Ive decided not to stand for this marriage anymore. Happiness is out there to be found. And once you find it, either by yourself or with someone else, the chances of you wanting to return to your spouse are slim and none. At least, thats how I feel about it. My hat goes off to all the members here that have been holding on for some time now. I wish I had half of their courage.
I have now let go and persuing divorce. W seems to be dragging her feet on it. I believe if she really wanted this divorce, it would of happened already. One moment, shes calling me every dirty name in the book. The other moment shes dedicating songs and asking me to buy her teddy bears. Ummm, what does she have her man for???
Keep your head up freind! The pain does go away. And at the end, you will see that Gods plan ALWAYS prevails. We might not see it during our rough journey, but at the end, you will say to yourself "WOW! This is 10 x better than what I had before"
All the best!
BTW, Check out Van Halens new song lol!
Cya
Well the honeymoon's over LOL!!
My W started a new job and wanted to change our schedule regarding care for our D. I sent an e-mail stating a proposal for days that would work for both of us, which even meant me totally switching my work schedule around.
She called me spewing, saying it wouldn't work, and that she was tailoring her schedule to me! She then said she wanted the same schedule and that she would find daycare for the time that she has conflicts. (No problem here!) I told her that it was just a proposal and I was open to keeping the same schedule.
She then started spewing more.
That is when I finally did something that I never do to anyone because I consider it rude. I hung up! I was sick of hearing it and she wouldn't let me get a word in edgewise and it was not productive. I tried to listen but it was negative crap. She knows I hate when people hang up on me, so i am guessing it may have sent a strong message. If it didn't oh well, I only did it so I wouldn't have to endure the spew anymore.
I am proud of myself because hanging up on her was a total 180. I was partially dark due to her seeming to be nice, but now I will go totally dark except for the weekly e-mail regarding schedule with D, and emergencies.
Otherwise, things are going good this week and my D is actually starting to talk more and learning words quick!
Today when picking up the D, the W asks me what I am doing tomorrow because she wanted me to pick up D from daycare and take her to another daycare. She can't because she has to work.
I stated in the last post that I proposed a schedule that would have helped her out of this particular jam, but got reamed out. I am now in the mind set that I will be responsible for D's care on my days (including finding daycare) and W is responsible for her days. I really didn't want it to be this way but her procrastination and "emergencies" are affecting my ability to go to work.
The problem is I feel guilty because I want to help out, but don't want to be reamed out for a proposal and then later on be asked/guilted into adhering to her schedule.
I think I need help with this. Am I being selfish? I just want to have a stabile schedule in my life. Any thoughts?
I think procrastination in many cases is par for the course. Many being already overwhelmed and looking to escape responsibilities in the first place, as they desperately try to save themselves and find their happiness...
I don't think you are being selfish. I believe that it isn't uncommon in sitches like yours (where parents are finding co-parenting a challenge) to be responsible for separate child care on their days of custody.
I can only suggest that you may approach your W for alternatives to something like what she's asked you to do as you may not always be available to do so, and then offer that you are willing to look into alternatives if your W is unable to come up with anything...
*shrug*
It gives her an opportunity to feel in control, yet gives her an out if she just can't do it...
Do you have any kind of agreement in writing yet ?
Anything that is binding ?
Mach- No nothing legaling binding, but we have a agreement in writing via e-mail. I am saving for a L currently, but don't have enough to make it legal.
Also if I push for the legal stuff, I best be prepared to go the distance, because she will go for full custody (although she claims that she wants 50/50 split, the state says, no it's 90/10). I want to be able to afford a lawyer to take me to the ninth inning if need be, rather than affording only 3 innings.
I have been pretty accomodating to her "schedules" and now she painted herself into a corner and wants me to help her out. The only problem is that is is refusing what I have to offer. So I guess she will have to be stuck. I am holding up my end of agreements made. I am also prepared in case she decides to not pick up D from daycare tonight because of her bind (she does not know that though).
I guess what I am trying to say is that regarding lawyering up I am playing this about as safe as I can for my own best interests financially at this time. I am also looking out for D as I am making backup plans in case W doesn't follow through.
So then....
What is this really about ???
Is it that you want to force your hand on the agreement ??
Do you feel like she is cake eating???
Are you trying to "punish" her if you say no ???
Who loses here...???
IF you choose to pick her up, YOU get an extra evening with her.
Document all of this, in case you need it down the road.
Sometimes, your best defense is to let the MLCer hang themselves...
The problem is that she IS cake eating. I pick her up for an hour, then W comes and takes her to her place because it is her night. Also my job requires that I work afternoons and evenings because that is the only time I can get families together for sessions. I have already cut my weekly schedule down to 3 nights a week and it can't possibly go down anymore.
I am documenting and I am letting W hang herself, but I am not going to lose my job because of her choices.
I am not trying to punish her by saying no, but I want some consistency on the agreement, otherwise I might as well have D all the time. (which I would love to have, but W would never allow).
I guess I am getting frustrated because she has changed the agreement 3 times in the last month and I have been accomadating, but I need to start looking out for myself and my career too. If I lose my job then the whole family is without insurance, and other benes., not to mention my income.
So....
You made those adjustments so that both of your work schedules can be taken into consideration. And that her unwillingness to work toward a more permanent schedule would put your employment a risk. And with that , you would be risking your financial stability, health care coverage for you and your Daughter...
And you would like to reach a plausible agreement , so that conflicts of time providing adequate care for your Daughter are avoidable in the future ????
And until that time, you are bound to the current schedule, due to work related obligations.
That about right ???
Yes! Spot on! Thank you Mach, I could not have stated that better myself.
I know that the only solution probably is getting a S agreement, but that takes a good amount of $ here where I live because the state demands mediation on top of paying the L for filing.
When I have the money I will get it legally in writing, if this is still a problem at that time. I will still be saving nevertheless, to protect myself.
I just wanted to vent and also wanted feedback in case I am not thinking this through or if I am being totally selfish and unreasonable.
Ever since this whole thing started, it seems like I am constantly scrutinizing myself and my feelings to make sure that I am not doing things out of spite or selfishness. Since W has pretty much made it seem like I am selfish or had been in the past, I am exploring that possibility in the present and if i need to make those changes for the future (be it with or without W) I will. Or she could be projecting.. either way it is worth exploring.
No prob....
I'm glad you are a therapist, that way you can help....
I'll try to be online when you get laid again, that way I can help you through that too...
: )
Just giving your grief TM....
I wouldn't wait too long Mach! It's gonna be a while!
I wouldn't wait too long Mach! It's gonna be a while!
Just like High School all over again.....????
I wouldn't wait too long Mach! It's gonna be a while!
Just like High School all over again.....????
Holy Cow! Do you know me?
I think I got the basics of put Tab A into Slot B.... I get a bit lost when wood glue and dowel C get involved...
I will be asking you for help though when it gets to that point.
I will be asking you for help though when it gets to that point.
Don't bother ... pretty sure he does great in Home Econ ... Shop might be another story
LMAO !!!
Pretty sure I got an "A" in both....
I can multitask with the best of them..
Watch...
I can post to TM, AND ignore PEI at the same time !!!!
TM
Don't worry man I haven't seen a landing strip in so long...
There is going to have be those blue landing lights on there and the tower is going to have to talk me in.
...but that is because I got my advice from Mach.
Jus Sayin'
Don't worry man I haven't seen a landing strip in so long...
There is going to have be those blue landing lights on there and the tower is going to have to talk me in.
...but that is because I got my advice from Mach.
Yea, but the Wright Brothers didn't need to land at O'hare either...
This is your pilot speaking. We are set for a very long transatlantic flight, but don't worry! We have 12 Adam Sandler movies for you and plenty of booze.
We may hit a little turbulence during the flight as there are storm clouds in our flight path. But we will try to fly above the storm zone to lessen the impact.
If you look to your left we are now passing over hot women at the bar playing pool. If you look to your right you will see a new thread coming up.
Thank you for flying Notgonnagetanyanytimesoon Airlines.
Feel free to leave your tables down and your seats in the relaxing position. It's gonna be a while. Grab a snickers!
LMAO !!!
Pretty sure I got an "A" in both....
I can multitask with the best of them..
Watch...
I can post to TM, AND ignore PEI at the same time !!!!
Just for the record, posting in reponse to me is not ignoring me ... just sayin'.
OMG ... I can't believe we're into landing strips, blue lights and towers ... TM, we actually spent an entire Friday afternoon trashing my thread one day about a year ago just having some fun ...
Mmmmmmm snickers ... I gave up carbs about a week ago, now you're just teasing me!
Ha Ha!
This thread reminded me to call for a waxing appointment......