It is time for a new thread. Plus, I think last night's events warrant it anyways. My previouse thread is located here:
One year after bomb...One week before divorceI apologize in advance for the length of this.
Out of the blue last night, XW called at about 10:40. I was getting ready to go to bed when the phone rang. She called to tell me about her weekend plans with S16. Then she started to complain about my FB page. Even though she deleted me as a friend, she apparently still checks out my page. Whatever. She started yelling at me and I told her to stop or I will hang up. She wouldn't, so I hung up. A few minutes later, I got a 5 page text telling me everything that I did wrong in our marriage. I didn't want to get into an argument so I did not respond. A few minutes later, she texted me and asked if I was still awake. I told her I was and then the phone rang. It was her. I let her ramble for a few minutes and then she settled down. We talked about EVERYTHING....her job, mine, her friend that has a brain tumor and more. Some of the highlights of our conversation:
* TOLD ME THAT SHE HAS BEEN TRYING TO FEEL SOMETHING FOR ME FOR THE LAST YEAR BUT CAN'T
* SAYS SHE DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHAT SHE WANTED WHEN SHE MOVED OUT. SHE JUST NEEDED TO GET AWAY FROM ME
* ASKED IF I WAS SEEING ANYONE. I WAS HONEST AND SAID SORT OF BUT NOTHING SERIOUS. SHE DIDN'T PRESS THE ISSUE.
* THEN SHE WANTED TO KNOW HER:
NAME
AGE
NATIONALITY
* INSISTED THAT OM IS JUST A FRIEND AND SAYS THAT SHE HAS NOT SLEPT WITH HIM
* ADMITTED TO GOING ON A DATE WITH A MATH PROFESSOR AT HER WORK, BUT IT WAS A ONE TIME DEAL.
* TOLD ME THAT WE CAN'T HAVE A RELATIONSHIP RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I WANT ALL OR NOTHING AND SHE CAN'T GIVE ME "THAT" PART OF HER RIGHT NOW.
* SAID THAT I NEVER LISTENED TO HER
* SAID THAT SHE FELT WORTHLESS, WHEN I TOLD HER THAT SHE ISN'T WORTHLESS, SHE SAID SHE KNOWS SHE ISN'T
* TOLD ME THAT IF WE CAN STOP THE FIGHTING, ARGUING AND REHASHING OF EVENTS OF THE LAST YEAR, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GO TO LUNCH SOMETIME
* SAID THAT RIGHT NOW, I HAVE NO RIGHT TO ASK HER FOR ANYHTING INCLUDING LUNCH
* SAID THAT SHE HASN'T SLEPT FOR MONTHS
* IT MAKES HER SAD TO BE DIVORCED
* SHE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO BE SINGLE
* SHE HATES BEING ALONE
* WANTS S16 FOR ENTIRE THANKSGIVING WEEKEND. I'M NOT GOING TO FIGHT HER ON IT.
* CONFUSED ME BY SAYING "YOU HAVEN'T CHANGED" AND LESS THAN A MINUTE LATER SAYS "YOUR NEXT WIFE WILL BE LUCKY AND GET THE BEST OF YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE LEARNED SO MUCH."
* SAID THAT SHE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO FEELINGS FOR ME.
* ASKED ME WHAT MY FAMILY THOUGHT OF HER
* WANTED TO KNOW IF I TOLD MY FRIENDS ALL OF THE THINGS THAT SHE HAS DONE
* SAID THAT SHE HAS TO GET A SECOND JOB BECAUSE I AM "MAKING" HER PAY CHILD SUPPORT
* SAID DIVORCE IS MY FAULT BECAUSE I WOULDN'T GIVE HER SPACE THAT SHE NEEDED
* WHEN ASKED WHY SHE COULDN'T QUIT TALKING TO OM, SHE SAID SHE DID FOR AWHILE, BUT COULDN'T ANSWER WHY SHE STARTED TALKING TO HIM AGAIN
* ADMITTED THAT GOING ON THE DATING SITE WAS WRONG
* SAID THAT SHE HOPED I DON'T LOSE THE HOUSE
* SAYS THAT SHE HAS BEEN MISERABLE FOR YEARS
* SAID OM HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HER DEPARTURE AND WOULD HAVE LEFT ANYWAYS
* WHEN I ASKED ABOUT THE TWO "WINDOWS OF OPPORTUNITY" I HAD TO MAKE HER STAY AND WHY SHE TOLD ME AFTER THE FACT, SHE SAID THAT I WAS JUST SUPPOSED TO KNOW
* BLAMED ME FOR CANCELLING OUR COUNSELING SESSIONS
* SAID THAT SHE DOESN'T WANT OUR SONS TO HAVE A REPLACEMENT MOTHER
* SAID SHE NEVER FELT NUMBER ONE WITH ME
* TOLD ME THAT SHE USED TO LOVE ME "SO F*CKING MUCH"
* SAID WE WILL NEVER BE A COUPLE AGAIN
* TOLD ME TO NOT TELL HER HOW I FEEL ABOUT HER ANYMORE BECAUSE SHE KNOWS
* ACCUSED ME OF LYING TO HER FOR YEARS
* SAID SHE WAS TIRED OF FEELING UNIMPORTANT TO ME
We had a very long conversation. Even though it started rough, it ended up being nice. I tried to validate as much as I could. It was getting late so she said she was laying down. I told her that if I was there, I could massage her forehead like I used to. She said "Yeah." We talked for a very long time while she laid in bed. When she told me that she had to get up at 5AM, I told her that I would let her go. She acted like she didn't want me to hang up, so I talked some more. I could tell she was getting sleepy.
Finally, my phone started beeping because the battery was going dead. I told her and she said that we should probably go. I said "I love you" and she said "goodbye." I hung up and noticed that the time was 3:55AM! We talked all night.
Needless to say, I got no sleep because I layed there wide awake thinking about our talk.
This morning, I got a text from her stating that she thought about things all night and told me again that she did not want our sons to have a replacement mother. She also said that she would like to ask me some questions about some of the things I said to her. I told her that maybe we can talk when we both have a free moment. She did not respond.
Wow. The funny thing is that the hurtful things she said did not hurt as much as they used to. Also, everytime she would say something to give me hope, she would say somthing to shoot it down. Or....she would say something to shoot me down and then say something to give me hope. Yes, I'm still going in circles.
I would love your comments please.
Tad
I suggest you ask her to go to Retrouvaille with you to try to improve the way you get along. Look at the website,
www.helpourmarriage.org for info on dates and locations of weekends. It is only two days, and it can help you get along and deal with your problems without a counselor.
Also, look at the description of the 4 Stage of Marriage (the link is on the top of the homepage. See if Stage 3 - Misery doesn't describe the last few years of your marriage. Retrouvaille really works,...if you go.
Tad,
Everything your W said I heard from my H at one time or another. It is typical MLC. Nothing surprising there.
As they say, the fate of the marriage is in the hands of the LBS.
The MLC'er is confused, that we all know. We cannot expect them to tell us things, to let us know what to do. We also, however, do not know what to do (as you XW said you were supposed to know) but that is why the boards are so helpful...people here have passed this way already. And using that wisdom has saved many M's. In my own sitch, I credit so much of the progress that I am seeing now as because of all my friends here.
Tad, it might not be too late, if you really want her back. Listen with your heart, not with your head. Your W is almost begging you to be there for her, to wait, to be patient, not to replace her. She is not ready thus she pushes you away, but she wants you to be there for her when she is, that is why she is reeling you in.
It all depends on you. She is starting to open up, to face her inner turmoil. Take it easy, let her lead the talk, validate, don't impose or control.
Don't think of the specific words she says - especially those little, petty things. Those are just spew. But think of the over-feeling that you got from it, the over-all message.
But keep up the DBing, the detachment. You said ILY, you suggested that you talk again. How quickly you forget that you are not to pursue. Let her lead. And continue working on yourself, making your changes, making yourself a better person. She will see it, I guarantee.
Take care Tad!
Tad,
Wow, your XW screams of MLC and confusion.
Classic how even though she initiated separation and divorce it is still all your fault.
I didn't read anything in your post where she owned any of her part in the breakdown of your M. Until she takes responsibility for her part and deals with her issues I don't believe there could be a lasting R.
Can I ask if anything she said about you and your behavior in her spew that stung?
What have you learned about yourself in this journey?
Tad, she's still deep within the tunnel, she has a ways to go.
Keep working on detachment and no expectations. It's the only way to maintain hope if a future R with her is what you decide you'd like to see happen. You know there are no guarantees.
Her statements that she doesn't want your sons to have a replacement mother? Her confusion is so very evident in this. First of all, your sons are older. It's not like they need mothering in the way that younger kids do. They are old enough to make up their own minds what type of relationship they want with her. I believe what she's saying is that she doesn't want you to have a replacement wife. The old "I don't want you, but I don't want anyone else to have you either" saying.
Hang in there Tad. Remember that she still has to face and settle her own issues. You can't fix them for her. Keep working on yourself and moving forward and live your life to the fullest. It's the only way to have a healthy future R with either your XW or someone new.
Tad,
With all respect to Lotus, I disagree about Retrouville. My "opinion" is that any type of marriage counseling is pointless while the MLCer is still lost and in a fog. They have to be more or less on the path to being whole and healthy themselves before they can even consider worrying about a relationship. So that would be my advice for you. Do not look at this as a way to fix your relationship. Think with love and look at it as a way to be there for her as she works through things for HERSELF. You cannot fix, her, but you can be a lighthouse in her storm. Make THAT your focus and THEN see what happens down the road. As you said, she is still lost and confused and she is clearly at least reaching a point where she may be realizing that a helping hand every so often may help. Be a role model for her on how someone can live a happy independent life. Go back and read my thread and see some of the things that my H said to me that made him rethink things. Good luck Tad.
Tad,
My XW is still deep in the tunnel but she has said everything your
XW said to you to me with the exception of the math professor.
It is amazing how similar these MLC'rs are. I have also agree with
what Seeking has said to you that she has a ways to go. I am not
convinced my XW will ever look within.
You are not alone at all in this and MHL just wrote something
similar to what you did a month or so ago.
WS
I don't think this relationship is ready for counseling because she is a total unequivocal mess, and I think this convo is no different than any other one before.
I think she sucked you back in SO badly. You resisted in the very beginning and then she calmed down enough to suck you in to not hang up, and she proceeded to eventually get around to the spewing and insults, and then kept you on the phone by occasionally throwing out things that probably gave you hope, such as the admission that she doesn't like being divorced.
Once you said you wished you could massage her forehead, that was a palm in the face moment for me ;-) Like really?? After all this, you're pursuing again? Cause that's a type of pursuit.
She is leading you by the nose...the whole "well there are more things that I want to talk about..." now that just has you not GALing, but waiting and wondering what they are, and allowing her the opportunity to keep you distracting from caring for yourself and then be her punching bag when she chooses.
If someone were treating me this way, I'd go fully dark on them. FULLY. It's the behavior of a child in a temper tantrum. She needs a counselor. You can't be that guy. Or she needs time enough alone to get her head right. You will never gain any strength if you keep allowing her to derail you.
She is in the initial shock of the divorce, finding out that it didn't change things. So...let her FACE that fact. What's happening is that she is confiding in YOU, almost like she is blaming you that divorce didn't get her what she wanted. You're the last person she should confide in if she made a mistake.
She is a child who needs to grow up, and the sad thing is that she is stopping YOU from growing up in ways you need to by involving you in her drama, and the even sadder thing is that you keep letting her.
She is making progress, her behavior is just part of the journey. I agree with some of the other posters, she is in no way ready for any type of marital counseling/program. She is still very irrational and lost. She has a long long way to go. I would be so careful on being sucked back into her drama. Draw good boundaries and maintain them. Take care
Tad,
Your xw is an absolute mess. She doesn't know what she wants and even though eveyrone has given you good advice, I am 100% w/Trusting. She's right about getting sucked into her drama. Step back and you need to learn how to cut the conversations short. You do not need to be bashed over and over again. Yes, you had apart in the break down of your marriage, but the marriage is over and you are divorced...she needs to realize that she does not have any more claim on you, your life and if you opt to have someone new come into your life. Set your boundaries and keep them.
One more thing, when she's like this...cut your conversations short. Your xw needs to come to the realization that you are moving on. It's okay to keep the door ajar, but you need to move forward and live each day for yourself.
seeking answers and Albequerque are, imo, spot on.
No way does your w want any MC let alone Retroavaille--which is a weekend workshop/retreat about repairing the marriage. And which requires commitment and NO OPs at all...at all....
She owns NONE of the problems, still blames you AND you still grovelled and begged to massage her forehead "if only you were there"....
you both still re-enter the same old dynamic so fast it's hard for me to see the growth she mentioned but I can see why she'd think you have not changed.
And she has not changed.
So why would you two talk about reconciling?
OH WAIT, YOU TWO ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT IT, YOU ARE...just you...
b/c you had ONE conversation that didn't end in a fight but began with one AND contained lots of negatives yet you claim that it was "also nice"....
I feel like I am watching someone who was 2/3 of t he way to the top of the mountain, just fall backwards all the way to the bottom again.
Am I missing something? Where is the positive in her calling him?
IT's all her confusion and spewing and then backtracking b/c HER life isn't so hot.
ANd the "no mother replacement" means HE CANNOT DATE b/c SHE won't allow it
and Tad agreed....(I'm slapping my forehead.)
SHE LEFT her sons and her home, so there is no mother to replace. THe mother left long ago.
And she's nutty and negative.
Tad,
Your xw is an absolute mess. She doesn't know what she wants and even though eveyrone has given you good advice, I am 100% w/Trusting. She's right about getting sucked into her drama. Step back and you need to learn how to cut the conversations short. You do not need to be bashed over and over again. Yes, you had apart in the break down of your marriage, but the marriage is over and you are divorced...she needs to realize that she does not have any more claim on you, your life and if you opt to have someone new come into your life. Set your boundaries and keep them.
YOU ARE DIVORCED...WHAT'S TO SAY??
One more thing, when she's like this...cut your conversations short. Your xw needs to come to the realization that you are moving on. It's okay to keep the door ajar, but you need to move forward and live each day for yourself.
WHAT SHE SAID....PLEASE....this is getting too crazy
I don't think this relationship is ready for counseling because she is a total unequivocal mess, and I think this convo is no different than any other one before.
EXACTLY!! oh, with a little less yelling...gee that sure is hopeful tad???
I think she sucked you back in SO badly. You resisted in the very beginning and then she calmed down enough to suck you in to not hang up, and she proceeded to eventually get around to the spewing and insults, and then kept you on the phone by occasionally throwing out things that probably gave you hope, such as the admission that she doesn't like being divorced.
who does?? She misses the boys too....not enough to Do anything about it but enough to tell YOU not to date...
Once you said you wished you could massage her forehead, that was a palm in the face moment for me ;-) Like really?? After all this, you're pursuing again? Cause that's a type of pursuit.
sorry but that was
among the most pathetic things I've heard you say...
and you know Tad, nothing else I say now will help. It'll be too harsh.
I have to let go of this...but listen to Antonia and ALL the other posters who are trying to get you to MOVE FORWARD...a day before she called you admitted YOU are who holds you back. Not finding a place or a job or saving for a deposit. NONE of that is relevant.
So she calls you and though you are divorced and have heard spew that is literally insane sounding
you lapped it up as soon as she allowed you to...Geez Tad, get some real help--no shame in it, but do it, and move on.
I am still shaking my head.
She is leading you by the nose...the whole "well there are more things that I want to talk about..." now that just has you not GALing, but waiting and wondering what they are, and allowing her the opportunity to keep you distracting from caring for yourself and then be her punching bag when she chooses.
If someone were treating me this way, I'd go fully dark on them. FULLY. It's the behavior of a child in a temper tantrum. She needs a counselor. You can't be that guy. Or she needs time enough alone to get her head right. You will never gain any strength if you keep allowing her to derail you.
Boy this is so true!
She is in the initial shock of the divorce, finding out that it didn't change things. So...let her FACE that fact. What's happening is that she is confiding in YOU, almost like she is blaming you that divorce didn't get her what she wanted. You're the last person she should confide in if she made a mistake.
She is a child who needs to grow up, and the sad thing is that she is stopping YOU from growing up in ways you need to by involving you in her drama, and the even sadder thing is that you keep letting her.
Wow - I don't know your whole story, Tad, but I am a little surprised by how negatively every body is seeing this. I actually have a more positive take on it.
She, like most WASs, was unhappy and thought leaving was going to make her happy - it didn't.
TOLD ME THAT SHE HAS BEEN TRYING TO FEEL SOMETHING FOR ME FOR THE LAST YEAR BUT CAN'T
Because she's depressed, and depressed people have trouble getting that dopamine high except from the novelty of a new R or from dangerous behaviors. But her telling you she has been "trying" - I'm guessing that she just can't admit to herself how much it is bothering her to think of you with another woman. The jealousy can sometimes be the first sign of those "feelings" surfacing. Many a WAS has gone from "no feelings" to suddenly back to feeling them. It's like they are almost deliberately fighting against the return of feelings, because they are scared.
SAYS SHE DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHAT SHE WANTED WHEN SHE MOVED OUT. SHE JUST NEEDED TO GET AWAY FROM ME
Typical for a WAS - they feel bad or depressed, don't really know why, figure it must be their spouse's fault and if only they could chew their arm off and get out of the trap, things will be better.
ASKED IF I WAS SEEING ANYONE. I WAS HONEST AND SAID SORT OF BUT NOTHING SERIOUS. SHE DIDN'T PRESS THE ISSUE.
* THEN SHE WANTED TO KNOW HER:
NAME
AGE
NATIONALITY
Oh, she is DYING of jealousy that you are dating someone. Funny how it never occurs to them, when they cheat, that someday you might date someone new too.
INSISTED THAT OM IS JUST A FRIEND AND SAYS THAT SHE HAS NOT SLEPT WITH HIM
Does this meet reality testing? The WAS will often tell bold-faced lies, so if it doesn't jive with the info you have, just ignore it. But true or not, her telling you this sounds like her trying to paint a picture of herself as someone you might take back.
ADMITTED TO GOING ON A DATE WITH A MATH PROFESSOR AT HER WORK, BUT IT WAS A ONE TIME DEAL.
Ditto
TOLD ME THAT WE CAN'T HAVE A RELATIONSHIP RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I WANT ALL OR NOTHING AND SHE CAN'T GIVE ME "THAT" PART OF HER RIGHT NOW.
"Okay". Ummm....you're dating someone else, you weren't exactly asking this now, were you? This is HER wrestling with her OWN desire to be with you but being uncertain about whether she can be trusted.
SAID THAT I NEVER LISTENED TO HER
True or not, sounds like HER PERCEPTION in the marriage was that she wasn't being heard. A good clue for what you need to work on.
SAID THAT SHE FELT WORTHLESS, WHEN I TOLD HER THAT SHE ISN'T WORTHLESS, SHE SAID SHE KNOWS SHE ISN'T
She's feeling pretty guilty and stupid
TOLD ME THAT IF WE CAN STOP THE FIGHTING, ARGUING AND REHASHING OF EVENTS OF THE LAST YEAR, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GO TO LUNCH SOMETIME
* SAID THAT RIGHT NOW, I HAVE NO RIGHT TO ASK HER FOR ANYHTING INCLUDING LUNCH
Turn that around - what she really means is that SHE has no right to ask YOU for anything (Lots of WAS statements have the pronouns reversed like that
)
SAID THAT SHE HASN'T SLEPT FOR MONTHS
* IT MAKES HER SAD TO BE DIVORCED
* SHE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO BE SINGLE
* SHE HATES BEING ALONE
She's figuring out that you weren't really the problem, and she misses you
WANTS S16 FOR ENTIRE THANKSGIVING WEEKEND. I'M NOT GOING TO FIGHT HER ON IT.
Is this her trying to repair her R with him?
CONFUSED ME BY SAYING "YOU HAVEN'T CHANGED" AND LESS THAN A MINUTE LATER SAYS "YOUR NEXT WIFE WILL BE LUCKY AND GET THE BEST OF YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE LEARNED SO MUCH."
* SAID THAT SHE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO FEELINGS FOR ME.
* ASKED ME WHAT MY FAMILY THOUGHT OF HER
* WANTED TO KNOW IF I TOLD MY FRIENDS ALL OF THE THINGS THAT SHE HAS DONE
Yeah, if she had no feelings for you, she wouldn't care what your family thought of her, and she wouldn't be so jealous.
SAID THAT SHE HAS TO GET A SECOND JOB BECAUSE I AM "MAKING" HER PAY CHILD SUPPORT
Yeah, divorce [censored], and two households are more expensive than one. Nobody wins.
SAID DIVORCE IS MY FAULT BECAUSE I WOULDN'T GIVE HER SPACE THAT SHE NEEDED
Haha, yeah - if you had just let her have all the time in the world to have her affairs, she wouldn't be in this divorced pickle now. So sad.
WHEN ASKED WHY SHE COULDN'T QUIT TALKING TO OM, SHE SAID SHE DID FOR AWHILE, BUT COULDN'T ANSWER WHY SHE STARTED TALKING TO HIM AGAIN
* ADMITTED THAT GOING ON THE DATING SITE WAS WRONG
Dopamine, dopamine, dopamine. It's addictive.
SAID THAT SHE HOPED I DON'T LOSE THE HOUSE
Cuz she still wants her old life to be there just in case she comes back.
SAYS THAT SHE HAS BEEN MISERABLE FOR YEARS
* SAID OM HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HER DEPARTURE AND WOULD HAVE LEFT ANYWAYS
REvisionist BS
SAID THAT SHE DOESN'T WANT OUR SONS TO HAVE A REPLACEMENT MOTHER
* SAID SHE NEVER FELT NUMBER ONE WITH ME
* TOLD ME THAT SHE USED TO LOVE ME "SO F*CKING MUCH"
* SAID WE WILL NEVER BE A COUPLE AGAIN
* TOLD ME TO NOT TELL HER HOW I FEEL ABOUT HER ANYMORE BECAUSE SHE KNOWS
* ACCUSED ME OF LYING TO HER FOR YEARS
* SAID SHE WAS TIRED OF FEELING UNIMPORTANT TO ME
She wants to come back but is scared she cannot regain the feeling (although unbeknownst to her it is bubbling inside already) and scared you would not forgive her.
She is "spinning" in a big way. This is the stage of maximum confusion. Sometimes they break out of it and return to the relationship - sometimes they get too scared of the mess they have made and just move on to another guy.
IF you want her back - BIG IF - DON'T make the mistake of acting eager or reading too much into this. Think about trying to get a squirrel to eat out of your hand - if you are too enthusiastic you scare them off. Sounds like you've already made it plenty clear enough that you could forgive her. You might want to validate how unloved she felt in the relationship and mention how that was never your intention and you regret that. Then keep dating and moving forward with your life - if you suddenly stop dating and start waiting around for her, she will sense it and be scared off. But if she sees that she better pull her act together if she doesn't want to lose you to another woman - she might move forward through the process.
Stay calm, tread lightly, don't get your hopes up, but allow her to spin and process.
Thanks everyone. I agree that I did get sucked in and that she is nowhere near going to counseling. I also agree with kml in certain areas.
Now I may have a bigger problem:
I have reason to believe that she may have seen my posts on this site.
What do I do now?
Tad
Tad,
What makes you think she saw your posts?
Do you believe she can access anytime she wants or did you leave something open that you think she saw?
Wow Tad. KML's ability to translate the language barrier between MLCer and LBS is exemplary. Listen to him, and maybe it will help you not to feel so lost in the storm.
first of all don't beat yourself up for getting sucked back in, ok? Guess what? It happens! After the things she said, I would've gotten sucked in too!
You still love this woman, and you have compassion for the maximum confusion she's going throuugh. You wish to express that to her, at the same time you must protect yourself. At the same time you're legally divorced, and have been working towards moving forward with your own life. As your trying to do this, then BOOM she pulls that!
I agree with KML. Move forward, but keep the door ajar.... if you wish to. Ok, the worst is over, you are legally divorced. However a piece of paper and legalities don't sever the emotional and mental ties that still bind you. 26 years of marriage and 4 children is serious history.
I agree that she needs to be in a much better place, in acceptance of what her actions have done to everyone around her, before she'd be ready to go to counseling. I would hope counseling could help her make it to the finish line of MLC.
Take Care. Be as strong as you can. And when you can't we're still here.
I have reason to believe that she may have seen my posts on this site.
What do I do now?
Tad
As someone that has had my wife chase me all over the internet.
My wife is a member of this website and at least 3 others that I am on, my question to you is:
so what?
Have you wrote anything here that is untrue or that you do not want to stand by?
You are divorced from her.
Start living your life and let her live hers.
She is realizing that you are moving forward with your life and she is losing control of you.
If you are truly concerned that posting is a bad idea, there are ways around that too.
Contact me and I will let you know how.
But not here since that would violate the TOS.
But what is she going to learn here that is so terrible.
Re-read your posts and decide that.
It will be a good thing to see how much you have changed since you got here.
She also may be starting to change.
I agree somewhat with KML that this may not be a bad thing, but you must continue to let her control the contact and remain detached.
NO PURSUIT.
Anyways that is my .02 for this morning.
Thank you Seeking, Kimmerz and Cadet.
Cadet, I haven't written anything on here that is untrue. So like you said, so what. The only thing is....she will see everyone on here telling me how absolutely batchit crazy she is. I may contact you on the alt. I will see what happens.
Seeking, to answer your question: many months ago when this all started she said that she had seen the website I was talking about that explained the 6 stages of MLC. I really didn't think anything of it then. On Thursday night I posted on here:
Also, everytime she would say something to give me hope, she would say somthing to shoot it down. Or....she would say something to shoot me down and then say something to give me hope.
On Friday, we had the following text exchange:
M: I will be a little late picking up S16 on Sunday.
W: Like when exactly?
M: 7:00-7:30
W: Why?
M: Work.
W: On Sunday?
M: Yeah. Overtime as we get ready for the holidays.
She then proceeded to tell me what a piece of work that I was and accused me of playing mind games and lying to her all of the time.
Then she sends the following:
I want to be CLEAR, there is no future hope for us, nor have I said anything to make you think that.
It could just be a coincidence, but who knows?
My God she is so mean.
Tad
Thank you Seeking, Kimmerz and Cadet.
Cadet, I haven't written anything on here that is untrue. So like you said, so what. The only thing is....she will see everyone on here telling me how absolutely batchit crazy she is. I may contact you on the alt. I will see what happens.
Seeking, to answer your question: many months ago when this all started she said that she had seen the website I was talking about that explained the 6 stages of MLC. I really didn't think anything of it then. On Thursday night I posted on here:
Also, everytime she would say something to give me hope, she would say somthing to shoot it down. Or....she would say something to shoot me down and then say something to give me hope.
On Friday, we had the following text exchange:
M: I will be a little late picking up S16 on Sunday.
W: Like when exactly?
M: 7:00-7:30
W: Why?
M: Work.
W: On Sunday?
M: Yeah. Overtime as we get ready for the holidays.
She then proceeded to tell me what a piece of work that I was and accused me of playing mind games and lying to her all of the time.
Then she sends the following:
[b]I want to be CLEAR, there is no future hope for us, nor have I said anything to make you think that.
It could just be a coincidence, but who knows?
My God she is so mean.[/b]
Tad
she's clear in her way, Tad. She's batchit crazy and possessive and has the gall to demand she not be replaced
as if her voluntary absence from the home and her sons should cost her nothing.
SHE "quit that job," so she has some nerve telling you to keep the vacancy open, indefinitely, in case she wants back in...(Oh BUT WAIT, NO she does NOT want back in and never will and never gave you any reason to think she would...)
I hope she DOES read this site. I'd like to meet her...in person...if I were armed...
Seriously though, Tad, what would it take for YOU to "get" into your head that this woman
is nowhere near ready for ANY healthy r's with ANY man?
Do you get that now?? What would it take to convince you?
I hope you are getting to the point where your answer is,
"I get it. I see it. I can face it now and she is a lost soul. And not my problem, not my fault, not my responsibility."
Tad you only have one life. Maybe your w will get healthy and kind some day. Maybe reality won't force her to collapse and she'll face the path of destruction she has wreaked upon others
and maybe she'll be able to forgive herself
and maybe she'll move forward...but until IF and WHEN that happens -know
There ARE women out there who are smart, rational, loving and kind.
Why slog through eternity waiting for this EX wife to NOT get it,
when you can move forward with a woman who's healthy enough to give and receive love?It's possible your w will wake up when SHE realizes that's true...but why wait and hope for that?
Go with what IS...
Tad,
Maybe it is a coincidence, but it sounds like more of the same to me. She tosses out a few crumbs to get your hopes up and then yanks the rug out from under you once again.
I pray that you know that when we sound harsh it is for no other reason than to try to get you to see the pattern that has developed with her and wanting you to don your armor to protect yourself and your heart.
It sounds to me like when she's been vulnerable with you and starts to open up it scares her and then she rushes back to slam the door shut to make sure you don't get in.
Don't get sucked in again. Detach and live your life. Move forward. You don't ever have to give up hope if you don't want to, but don't let it keep you from learning and growing. You will absolutely know for sure if your XW emerges from the tunnel and has faced her issues and owned her part in the breakdown of the M. She has to do it on her own, you can not help her. Know that every time you allow yourself to get sucked in it actually slows down her journey through the tunnel.
BTW, if she had seen some of the things that we have written here, I doubt she could hold back enough not to spew some of what has been said back at you.
Just remember, we're walking beside you and we care.
She has said that line before or one awfully close to it...it doesn't strike me as evidence she has been reading here.
If she was, I think I'd feel pretty confident in predicting that she would then start to use THIS BOARD as the reason there is no chance. I can hear it now: "if you hadn't talked to other people about our sitch, there'd be a chance." Or "I was going to think about trying to work it out till I read that someone on that board called me crazy."
ALL MLCer lack one thing: COURAGE. They cannot just do what they do and accept that they did it. They have to claim that something else or someone else made them do it. They don't have the courage to stand up for themselves and their actions without acting like something forced their hand.
Even though the divorce is over, she's still laying the script out to you every time she gets access. She won't stop until you stop her from doing it.
You have to make major changes in cutting her out of your life as much as humanly possible or nothing will ever change for you.
Hi Tad. Glad things are changing. Or not. But you are and that's good to hear. Your balance is way better than it used to be, that's for sure.
Can I point something out? Long ago I pointed to her coming back at some point. She likely will try Tad. I don't recommend you let her but rather wait and see how things go for a very long time if that really does happen. I say that it will based on some of what I see, and I think (personally) she wants to control. She is derailing you for her own benefit. That is not healthy Tad.
What is not healthy is that you are still trying to fix you and you are getting dragged down. Why? I think she wants to control you. I think she is not happy and doesn't want you to be until she gets her sh** together.
It comes to this. If she wants in, she will have to overtly try. But she will try to keep the connection while she decides if she wants to or not. She will try to push your buttons to get a reaction and that will tear you apart and prevent you from becoming healthy. Don't allow that. It's a boundary you need to learn to set witih anyone.
She told you she knows how you feel. You have made that clear. Don't say it again Tad. No matter what, Ok?
She told you many confusing things. She is pushing buttons. Keep your conversations short and to the point and let it go as the ramblings of a mad woman. I see much of that in that conversation and it's not that I'm suspicious, but rather have been there and done that. I didn't listen at the time (wasn't ready) and it set me back a long way.
Don't make that mistake. Keep your distance and stay away. She asked for you to let her go. She is a mad woman. Let her go and be mad and figure things out on her own. You do the same for you and deal with things as they happen.
Be you Tad. Let others be themselves and put a lot of time and distance between you and the ex. What you do or whom you do it with is now your business alone. Keep it that way.
AJ
Thank you 25, Seeking, Antonia and AJ.
I'd like to meet her...in person...if I were armed...
Haha! Classic 25.
Seeking, thank you for the very nice words.
Even though the divorce is over, she's still laying the script out to you every time she gets access. She won't stop until you stop her from doing it.
You're right Antonia. I get sucked in every single time. Maybe I'm just an idiot. Just can't help that I'm nuts about her ya know?
Today was uneventful, but I have noticed something. Whenever we have a spat or when she has been very mean, she will barely open up her door wide enough for S16 to get out of her house when I pick him up. She did it again today. I've noticed it a few times and it is just weird. I'm sure, as the patterns goes, she will be distant for a little while before coming around again. Really weird how this stuff works...
Long ago I pointed to her coming back at some point. She likely will try Tad.
Thanks AJ, but I'm not so sure. Apparently right out of the blue on Friday after picking up S16, She said to him:
HER: Do you still have hope that your dad and I will get back together?
S16: Yeah.
HER: Well, I don't want to give you false hope but that is probably not going to happen.I've heard this before, but why would she ask this of
him? Also, it seems like the "false hope" phrase gets used here a lot by people. Is this something that MLCers commonly say?
Just curious.....
Tad
I have heard it said to me, so it is world wide. Like the "Too little, too late" script. It's almost like they go to a reference book to get these phrases, or do they come from the depressing junk on TV nowadays?
She knows your son will tell you, thats why she told him. Its still clssic spinning. If she lies to you, she can lie to her kids too. She probably lies to herelf as well and believes it.
By the way, I love the way kml dissected your W's words.
About the words they all use, its amazing. My H is not a reader, but he did use the same words: too little, too late when I said I could change; he used "false hopes" was used a lot, "feeling stuck", wanting to "run away", "its not you, its me", me being "controlling" in everything I do, "I need space", etc.etc.et.
That is why when I found this site, it gave me hope. I realized that its not only me with the problem, but many of us. I felt that there would be an end to it if I were patient enough. I read what the people who succeeded in saving their M's did and tried my darnednest best to follow them. Hearts Blessing, 25, Sandi, Sad but Happy - to name a few.
And really, it boiled down to three main things: The basics....
Detachment
Patience
Loving yourself.
Deatchment is hardest, but it is the most important. It is THE life saving skill all of us have to learn and keep on applying. It makes you not answer back when they are spewing. It makes you able to walk away from the phone convos, the provocations, the fights. It makes you able to love from a distance. It enables one to deal with the small realities, the necessary logistics like child care, like discussions finances, without it turning into mudlisnging sessions. It also keeps you from getting sucked back in.
Tad, you are slowly learning, keep working on it. YOu still have a long ways to go.
Take care Tad!
Tad,
MLC aside, try to remember this when this happens, and you feel sucked in and all confused, and your emotions start to rise.
Look at the situation for what it is. Look at how she's handled it from start to present.
Look at how you've handled it.
How many oppurtunities has she had to straighten up and act maturely about all of this?
I think there comes a time that for anyone that has one ounce of maturity or rationality left inside them, they will realize that and can see the big picture for what it is.
I don't see her understanding the big picture here, which she can't because she's really out there now. And really it is very sad to see someone going through what she is.
Detatchment is the hardest, and when you have consistent contact like that, it will really hinder your ability to move forward. It is the hardest thing you will ever do. But subjecting yourself to her emotional and mental abuse over and over again will just keep you stuck.
Thanks Ajay, Angel and Kimmerz.
It's been a few days since I checked in mostly because there hasn't been much to tell.
I find I've been cycling I guess between sadness, hurt, anger, sadness, hurt and back to anger.
I've got some stuff sitting in my front yard because I am getting ready to have a yard sale. XW saw it today when she picked up S16 and kind of got into a tiff with S19. I was at work.
Apparently, according to S19 she got fairly upset about some of the stuff that I was getting rid of. She accused us of "throwing away memories." WTF? She's done nothing but throw the family away and created bad memories in the last year. She also started to remove the hummingbird feeder from the yard that I am NOT selling, but S19 wouldn't let her have it. She claimed that she bought it and therefore it belonged to her. I thought that anything that was purchased during a marriage was ours. She just thinks that she is entitled to everything. Is that typical MLC behavior?
S19 told me that she made it sound like she bought everything and I didn't do a damn thing.
She is also claiming that she wants some more stuff out of the house. I told her in a quick phone conversation tonight that she isn't entitled to anything else because she told the judge that we had already divided things equally when she took off like a bat out of hell.
She told S19 that she only took stuff for a "seperation" and not a divorce. (I'm still getting the blame for the divorce.) I think she is crazy. If she took stuff just for a "seperation", she would have only taken stuff that she absolutely needed. She wouldn't have went through the trouble of dividing pictures etc....
S19 says that she seemed bothered/sad about it. Maybe things are starting to dawn on her?
I just don't know.....
Tad
Tad.... WOW. How can you know?
I really have no idea what to make of her behavior..... I would think the Vet's here would say Classic MLc... yet quite frankly it seems like plain insanity to me!
It sounds like she contradicts everything she says or does.
When you get firm with her and call her on her behaviors, how does she respond?
Tad - I wish I could see from your description your X having regrets - but honestly i don't see it. She is just living her life. And I would encourage you to live yours with NO connection to hers. JMO...
Tad.... WOW. How can you know?
"know" what?? That she's emotionally unbalanced? That this is more than MLC?
I "KNOW" that From her words and her behavior over the last year or so. She has not been consistently anything - but various negative versions of nasty, sad, outraged, paranoid, self centered, regretful, furious, and plain old batchit nuts.
Among the clearest examples of her being BEYOND THE MLC, imo, was when she accused him of having an affair OR the desire for one, with a girl he knew in 6th grade and with whom he'd had NO contact....
AND
the yo yo effect is the worst I've seen. Hot and cold (well, more like slightly lukewarm and then FREEZING)
The second she shows the slightest movement NOT towards reconciling BUT just towards a more adult R with Tad,
then he openly jumps thru hoops that shows his hope (although YOU are better now than before Tad. I don't want to say you have not grown at all...far from it.)
But dang you still get so sucked in at her littlest "EFFORT" (using that word with wild abandon)
and THEN she slaps him down. It sure appears cruel. And It sure hurts him. And it sure keeps happening.
Does it really matter WHY she does it, if it keeps happening? At this point, I'd say NO it does not matter why
b/c it won't change the FACT THAT SHE DIVORCED HIM....
So what HE can DO about it now? Detach. The most repeated word on this thread- and sadly, the most ignored.
Even if he were to hold out hope for a reconciliation in the future, it could not happen now or soon b/c neither of them are healthy enough to interact well together. So again the "course of action" is DETACHMENT.
They push each other's buttons and his ex wife has A LOT of buttons...and
I hate to beat a dead horse, but once again, SHE DIVORCED HIM.. isn't it time to stop thinking about what's in HER head or heart and start
controlling what's in Tad's?
.
I really have no idea what to make of her behavior..... I would think the Vet's here would say Classic MLc...
Not THIS vet...
yet quite frankly it seems like plain insanity to me!
While It's true that her age (peri-menopausal) and the early behavior/confusion fit that MLC stereotype.
But she's gone beyond that in both the types of behaviors (the paranoid behavior was always odd. & The level of her controlling behavior especially NOW after over a year AND POST DIVORCE is just too nutty. And SHE left her home and kids...that's NOT a typical WAW OR MLC...)
Also her emotions- especially her ANGER at this stage, is very extreme... She doesn't just get irritated or irked or annoyed. She gets FURIOUS!
You'd think she'd exhaust herself by now, but nope...she ramps it up again AND SHE GETS ENRAGED and weirdly, it's STILL ALL HIS FAULT...
So I See in her,
zero to little insight to her part in this, even a year out of this AND
even post divorce when she no longer has to feel defensive b/c the "war is over", right? Didn't she "win"??
and no healthy reflections on her end and
STILL with the crazy anger and
STILL with the wacky control issues and NO irony or hypocrisy noted...
telling him NOT to date or bring OWs to HER HOME...or to replace her?
SHe had OM! So, Excuse me? Who is she to say a THING to him about any of that?
her behavior is simply beyond galling--it's out of the bell curve of normal to neurotic behavior and into the neurotic to psycho end of the spectrum, at least as it relates to her family r's.
IF this stuff she says and does is really all out of character then she has snapped...and Tad cannot fix her.
She's a bomb with a big blast zone and people need to stay out her range...
but Tad, you dance to her tune. She keeps this up, even now, after divorcing you and putting the boys thru hell too...
and still swoops in and creates havoc and AND
you still let her. Tad, you are part of the problem.
Thankfully, YOU control YOU,
so when you decide to DO somethiing different so your life can change
you can create a happy life for yourself.
Evidently, you are more comfortable with the hell you know than the unknown world of love and rational behavior and honesty, in the life you could create for yourself.
IF you'd just let go, and detach...
It sounds like she contradicts everything she says or does.
When you get firm with her and call her on her behaviors, how does she respond?
never happened so who knows?
But I say it doesn't matter now. Tad, move on and detach.
IF she ever wants to reconcile, She certainly knows how to get you and she knows where you live.
For the forseeable future She has a ton of personal work to do, which she has not yet begun, and her presence in your life
only hinders your work on YOU...and hurts the boys more.
So let her go. For ALL concerned.
25 i am a little confused as to what you said to Tad about not being MLC because she left her home and kids?
I thought this was part of MLC. Can you explain please?
Also, I understood Tad to say that his xw didnt want to be replaced as a MOM. I took this to mean she didnt want her boys to call anyone else MOM....not that she didnt want Tad to be with anyone else.
I said the same thing....I was so worried my son, while living with dad and stepmom, would call HER MOM.
I could be misunderstanding though, but I if this is the case I can kinda understand her worries of that.
I mean she walked out on Tad and her kids, BUT didnt they have a choice of going with her. I mean they are older, its not like they are young boys, except for the 16 yr. old.
DOnt get me wrong. I totally disagree with how she did it and I am so sorry this happened to Tad. She is a CASE that is for sure.
25 my xh STILL, after three years hates the sound of my voice. So the anger can last, dont know why, but it does.
I am truly believe he is in MLC.
Married a 26 yr. old and had a newborn!
The man is in his 40's.
Tad the best thing you can do is COMPLETELY DETACH!
It will help you move on, if you NEVER talk or see her for as long as you can go. It will be like she died, but this is the only way you are going to heal faster and in return she MAY stop being so vindictive and see you for what you are now.
By seeing her even once a couple weeks, she is NOT going to except that youve changed.
The BIG plus to this Tad is its best for your boys.
I know you have a son underage, but is there anyway one of your other sons can pick him up when needed, so you can avoid her for awhile?
Tad I know each time she is NICE to you, it gives you hope.
Its not working! This is just a mood change.
Please understand it will be a while before she actually gets her mind back.
This is your only hope Tad for getting back together in the future. You have got to go on and get her completely out of your life for now.
Pretend it is over for good....just pretend.
Believe me the longer you are away and dont here from her the easier it will get.
Tad I hate to tell you this, and I know everybody is different, but it has been 3 years and no talking to my xh at all, well except the couple times i tried to call about my son and he hung up on me, and I STILL have times that I miss him.
It will take A LONG WHILE, be Patient with yourself and dont stop Praying, even though things ease up.
Get her out of the picture Tad. Do it for you and your Boys!
It will be hard....believe me I know. BUt you dont have a choice, unless you enjoy punishment and seeing your kids suffer from this....and THAT I KNOW you dont....so DETACH COMPLETELY!
Hugs,
Renee
I think it is a grey area where what we call MLC shades into something which is a really unbalanced pattern of behaviour. Most MLCers here do and say some pretty awful things, and some of it goes on for a long time.
My xh was generally unremittingly hostile to me for the best part of 5 years, with occasional forays into normal. They can stay angry for a long time.
What I think we have to do is back off from the weirdness, and not feed it. This is one of the many reasons why we need to detach.
There are 'mild' MLC and more severe ones, it would appear from the variety of experience reported here. Some spouses are able to go on talking to each other throughout, which I used to find astonishing!!
Tad, if your xw is really unbalanced she will need to get help at some point. If it is extreme MLC, and thus mainly directed at you and her immediate family, or part of it, it may eventually blow itself out. I have no claims to be a professional therapist, merely an observer, but it seems to me that you are inadvertently feeding her anger.
if you could stop all contact, and take no notice it may blow itself out more quickly, or turn on someone else who may be in a position to advise her to get help.
You could, by your availability, be making the situation even worse. We want to be there for someone we love who is sick, but MLCers often tend to see us as the problem.
You come across as a co-dependent couple pre MLC, whether or not you realised this. Your xw may be trying to break free from this, in an immature and destructive way. It can be helpful to see the MLCer as fighting for their life, when they feel they are drowning by staying in their old life. We can only respect that decision and give them the space they need.
Also we have the right to our boundaries, and to be treated with respect.
While divorce is arguably 'only a piece of paper', at the same time it dissolves any legal rights your wife has to say and do what she pleases to you. In many places there are actually laws in place to protect former spouses from on-going harassment . . . . I do not say this to encourage you to be litigious, but to remind you that you do not have to tolerate her behaviour. Legally she is nothing to you, and has no rights, apart from what the divorce settlement gave her, and I doubt it was the right to be abusive.
It's not that she isn't MLC, she is, but she's something beyond MLC or just the most insane level of MLC most have ever seen.
This stuff about her coming and trying to take things...my XH didn't actually DO this but he said he wanted to. AFTER the divorce he said that he suddenly had room for things and wanted to take what was "his", that he didn't have room before. It wasn't a lot of stuff he wanted--mainly some record albums, cds, tools from the shed. But I also didn't know if it would turn into "more" the more I let him come around the house, and both of us had signed settlement papers that were final, giving me everything in exchange for a cash buyout. He even signed a paper saying that with the check I wrote him, which was 75k, that he was "fully compensated" for everything due to him. It was like he forgot he signed the papers and such. What he wanted, he wanted.
I told him in an email no. I said the settlement was over, that he made his choices, and that he was not welcome to come to the house to pick anything up. Then I changed the locks.
If he had come and tried to get in, I was ready to get a restraining order. This was an issue of boundaries. His behavior was volatile and mean enough at the time that it was a huge setback for me to see him in person and he had no legal right to anything he was asking.
At someo point I had a washing machine break and he offered to buy me the machine if I let him get that same stuff back. I said no. I felt that these were power games brought on by his suddenly finally getting his new place and seeing he had virtually nothing.
Well he never tried to break in or anything.
Flash forward to this week, and now that we are cordial again, we are talking about which cds the other wants and negotiating what to mail to each other.
He isn't due these things but I no longer want them, and now I can interact with him without losing it. He doesn't any longer want a lot of what he said he wanted before--but he does want his father's record albums, which I said he can have, but he has to come here to get them and he's afraid to see me as it opens his attachment. So I keep them for now...maybe forever.
I'm telling you all this for one reason: you need to stop her behavior. You cannot let her start fooling with what's on your property or there will be no end. This is simply another way she is effing with you. You may have to tell her that you will call the police if she tries to take anything on your property or that you will file a restraining order. Yes she will lose it when you say that, but so what? She's already lost it a hundred times over when you're nice. She has no legal right to take things if you "won" them in the settlement. If the house is not in her name, she has no right to enter or come on the property.
Being nice or cordial or playing her tune will NOT bring her back, and why you would want her back like this is beyond me. She is not who she was. You have to block her access to you. We've all been saying it for months and there is little change.
You have grown yourself, yes, but you are not trying to shut her down or block the interactions, and until you do, this stuff is going to keep happening.
Tad, that is why there is the term NC in this world we all are in. and NC really is not to punish the MLC'er, its for us, the LBS, to stop, breathe, gather our wits, and heal.
In your case, your W seems to be an extreme case. But your reacting to her makes it worse. You have so many buttons to push tad that she goes crazy trying to push them all - like a gleeful child with so many quarters at a candy vending machine.
If you can detach, go NC, work on those buttons.
Maybe you cn only keep the "delete" one
Hi Tad. I read that post and can see a lot of the same behaviors my ex had. Except the one without the OM (if indeed that's the case).
I can say that it's hard Tad. I can say that it's worth detaching. Very much so.
I was in California this past week. I was cleaning out my grandparents house and visiting with them. Lots of old memories. Funny though. The part for me that was cathartic was hanging out in an old folks home. Reminds me how short life is and how people can be. I met many and each is behaving as they would without filters. Some are nice and some are not. They are all big children.
I came home and cleaned out my storage bins. I meant to a while back, but somehow never got to it. I threw much of it away, but as I was going through it, it dawned on me, that my xw didn't leave me - she ran away from me and everything she ever knew. Kids, her childhood, etc. I feel for her in that regard, since I don't have that problem. I have happy memories of my childhood and even times with her.
Your ex is not that much different than the behaviors of mine, Tad. Similar tracks it seems.
She sometims sends postcards from the other side, so to speak. But that's not for you. That's for her. That's indicative of her conflict and you cannot know what or why. It's just not how things are going to be.
For you?
I highly suggest you continue to set and enforce boundaries that are going to make you healthy. She'll test them along the way, so you'll know when you have it set properly.
She is not somebody you know Tad. Really. This is a carbon copy of your ex.
The cycling is not unexpected. Normal and it's part of the process. The process works better if you keep her at bay and don't let her push buttons along the way. She'll extend your healing and keep you from what's next if you let her. Misery loves company or something like that.
Lead the way Tad. Kindly and compassionately lead the way. Set and enforce the boundaries and distance and let her know that she divorced you and you are going to do what is right for you and the boys. Regardless of her, since that is how she wanted it.
Don't ever wish any bad things on her Tad. She has enough and cannot get away from them. She can bury things, but 25 is right - she hasn't started (and may never) addressing her own issues.
She will continue to be mean to you as long as you let her and a little past that. You have that control and nobody else will give it to you nor take it away.
Think about that last a little. It's true and you know it. Embrace it rather than disbelieve it.
She may be crazy and mean, but you don't deserve what she is doing. Put a stop to it over time. Your boys need to see how to deal with it because they need to do the same for as long as she remains crazy and mean spirited. It's a healthy thing for them to learn.
AJ
sunshine/renee,
Tad's EX w is definitely having a crisis. But it's no "mid life" crisis as if exteranl circumstances and some internal clock brought ALL THIS crap out...
I think she's unstable and wacky. That's my "medical" opinion, so it's good I'm not a doctor.
She's more extreme than ANY other wife I can recall, and I've been here awhile.
That's all I'm saying. I won't let "MLC" be attached to someone who is that mean for that long AND that crazy...and fwiw
most MLC women don't leave their kids.
They want the h's to leave and "be erased" from the rest of their worlds, as if the h's were never there or a new OM can replace them.
Tad's ex w is also unusual in that respect. She left it all and in a huff,
and did not present the sons with a choice a rational son could choose. IT was an offer NOT built to accept...and then changed and morphed, if I recall it right. (Maybe I am off there but that's how I saw it I think)
And her particular complaints are weirder and more off the wall than most. And she got her divorce!! Enough already. What is there to debate NOW??
Her telling her ex h what she wants her sons (some of whom are adults if I'm not mistaken) what to call any woman he dates or brings into their lives, isn't for her to tell TAD
they will call his OW what they feel like calling her, (if he ever brings one home)
It's not HER place to say anyting about their R's with the women in Tad's life from now on.
She lost that right and, given that SHE has had an OM for some time now, in his face,
it's way out of line.
The hypocrisy is just insane. And she continues to see none of it and they seem to fear her so much, it goes on.
So I stand by my comment that she's far beyond the pale of a mere MLC, as wacky as all that can be.
The important point here Tad, is that no matter what "diagnosis" she gets--YOUR TREATMENT is the same
your CURE is the same...
you have to detach or you will remain stuck in stuckville, population: you.
Come on, you deserve better and you know better. So do your sons!
God I hope they learn what NOT to do from the past with you two, and so now teach them what
TO DO!
Tad, like I said, you seem more comfortable with the hell you know (and are in) than the
fear of what might be if you simply let go.
That's a really tragic choice to keep making. I wish you could see that.
Tad,
Mine is just one of the other countless voices telling you to practice detachment. You have been given two wonderful gifts - you don't have young children to co-parent and you don't share the same home. Detachment and limited contact will still be difficult at first but the fact that you have these two gifts should help to make it easier. (I say limited contact because of S16.)
AJ's post is right on the money. Teach her how to treat you and do it with compassion and appropriate boundaries. She is finding out that reality bites when you do not address deep-seated issues. She will discover that you can get divorced, move to another planet, makeover yourself, buy a thousand new toys but if the internal issues are not addressed your reality will always bite. There will be discontentment and anger. You can only work on your issues and leave her to work or not work on hers.
Hey Tad,
How's it going? Excuse me for not having a full grasp of your entire sitch for I may be missing a few things.
Have you read up on Emotional/Mental abuse, and Borderline personality diorders?
I say this because I do agree this is beyond MLC, and what it's done to you mentally and emotionally, and continues to is the most horrific cycle imaginable.
If you read up on this, yes it gives you more of a grasp of what's going on with her... BUT even more so, you're reactions, emotions, and the hold that her behavior has on you.
I realize with kids in the mix it's pretty impossible to keep NC.However by getting a true grip on NC ( as much as possible that is) will you truly get the chance for the fog and confusion you're under to finally clear, and get a new perspective of the situation. And it takes time, kind like an iceburg melting.
Take Care!
Thanks so much everyone. You all make it sound so easier than it is. I KNOW that if I could just stop the contact and detach, I could get so much better. So hard to do, but I am getting there ever so slowly.
I had a really bad day today. I cleaned out my garage and put more things in the yard for a yard sale. XW found out some more stuff that I was getting rid of because her sister lives three houses away. She is furious with me.
I agree with 25. My XW is beyond MLC. She is just gone. Have any of you noticed how your MLC spouse seems to contradict themselves all of the time or talk in circles? My XW does it constantly. She doesn't even realize it either.
Some of the highlights from her texts today:
She says it is ok that she has a pic of OM on her FB page because we are divorced now. (This started with OM before I knew there was even a problem.)
She says that I like to lie and play head games.
I like dark women. She accused me of thinking that she isn't ethnic enough for her. (Hello? She's got dark skin, black hair and big beautiful dark eyes.)
Told me to go "pop some more uppers." (I'm on anti-depressants.)
Accused me again of just throwing her life away and memories away.
Says that she wants more things from the house. I told her that she isn't entitled to anything else except for 6 more boxes in the garage that was agreed to in the divorce. She is coming to get them on Wednesday.
Accused me of involving the kids in this mess, but then I found out that she was reading her texts to S16. WTF?
Says that I let her know every single day how much I didn't want her.
The things that hurt the most though:
Says I never liked her.
Says I never wanted her.
Say I never LOVED her.
Do I need a 2X4? Nope. More like a 4X4.
Will she ever realize that I am not this terrible person? I just don't get it. I'm terrible, but yet she still wants to be friends.
She was mean and nasty again I let myself get sucked in AGAIN and have nobody to blame but myself.
Tad
It's much more simple than you realize. You are making excuses constantly about how you "can't" detach. No...You "won't" detach. That's the problem. It shocks me that this is going on for so long post-divorce, but then again, you're still not attempting NC.
It's very simple to do a few things:
1. Put her on your BLOCK list on FB. I realize you aren't FB friends. But if you're not blocking her, she can see some of your page and you can see some of hers, including OM. If you can't handle that it's there, then block her. Tell your sons that you don't want to know ANYTHING about what she is or isn't doing on FB. Tell your friends. I get this impression that whatever you don't know, people are lining up to tell you or worse yet, you're asking them what she's doing. Not healthy for you at all.
2. BLOCK HER TEXTS. You can contact your phone provider and do this. I did it on the internet, just typed in my XH's phone number. Done. He couldn't say a word to me.
3. BLOCK HER ON A LANDLINE if you have one. Same process. You either do this online or you call the phone company. "I do not want to receive calls from this number." No explanation is necessary. This is your right.
4. BLOCK HER EMAIL ADDRESS. Likely you can enter her address online on a block list. Mission accomplished.
You have to cut off her means of attack. You haven't even TRIED to stop her.
If you do all this, it leaves her the postal service, and frankly you can write "return to sender" on anything from her and not open it, or her showing up in person, and if she does that, you can not answer the door, call the police, whatever.
There is nothing more any of us can do to help you. We've told you a hundred times to try NC and you refuse. You're making your own nightmare at this point. If you don't do the above, it can only mean you like being treated this way and don't want it to stop because you're getting something out of it.
Tad,
Do you realize that many people on this site implemented NC or low-contact (is that a reconized term?) for months while sharing a home with a WAS? You do not live with your ex and you do not have young children so you have an advantage already. You are addicted to interacting with her even if it is negative interaction. You feed off the analysis of her behaviour and motives because you think it will provide answers. You fear limited contact because it means for the first time in a long time she will not be there. Even if she spews rage at you at least you are getting something from her, right?
Your wife needs counseling. You need to take your medicine....right now you're saying "I know that if I took this medicine it would work, but it sure tastes awful". It tastes awful (at first) but it WORKS.
Tad
I have just read your last 2 threads, and you have been given the best advise on Detatching for YOU that I have seen.
YOU have to do this for YOU, otherwise stuckville we be your residence for some time.
We all know its not easy, but do it. One of my favorite sayings is from Yoda LOL.....
No, try not, do or do not, there us not try.............
It will make xw mad, so what, you first.
Detachment is for you to heal, get away from the blame projecting and anger. Give YOU a chance to take a breath, GAL and figure out just who you are.
This also has a bye product at the same time (but is not the main driver). NC will show your strong and non clingy. It also shows strength, courage and non neediness. Be strong, get away from xw and give her time without the guilt she feels around you.
Take responsibilities for your contributions to the failure of the marriage, learn from them, but don't dwell on them. This is for you, to help you learn and to make you a better tad, for your future.
Yes its hard, bloody hard, we all know that, as I do......I'm doing it FOR ME, no one else.
It's been 5 weeks NC AT ALL from me, with 2 kids (12&14) so can be done. The hardest challenge for me was just last week when W left me a crying hysterical vm message, and I WAS tempted to call. BUT she was still projecting blame at me and throwing in she left me stuff, so why subject myself to mire of the same. Yes, I'm human and did FEEL it, but I didn't react, respond or reply, for ME.
You can do it too
Can you clarify the NC for me please? My W is generally friendly and pleasant during contact. So I am not enormously fearful of the roller coaster. Does that suggest that I should keep regular contact or is it still as well to back right off?
Ajay,
If contact is going well for you then by all means stay the course as long as you avoid R talks and can maintain a PMA. Do what works, don't do what doesn't.
NC is for those LBSs who have WA spouses who either treat them poorly during contact or as a way that the LBS can show the WAS what life will be like without them.
Sorry for the hi-jack Tad.
Apologies from me too. I did make contact and guess who is back on the roller coaster ride?
Best of luck Tad, one of the things we all share is the knowledge of how we all hurt so deeply. Take care.
Thanks.
Things are getting a little better.
I think I have found a place to live. Now, I have to figure out how to get in there with all of the deposits.
I still love her dearly, but I still can't believe how cold and heartless she is towards me.
She was at the house today to pick up a few leftover things and S16 for the long weekend.
I didn't talk much and neither did she. I could feel my anger boiling inside and it started to come out towards her but I squashed it.
This was interesting though:
Over the years, we had saved every love letter that we had written to each other. We had an entire box full of them. We also had a mirror that I made her in high school that said: "Tad Loves XW."
When she moved out, she told me to keep the mirror because I made it. She also wanted to throw the letters away and I wouldn't let her. Then she wanted to burn them. In the end, I ended up keeping them because I couldn't part with them. Today, I asked if she wanted the mirror. She said yes and I asked her why. She said "because it is still part of my life." I gave it to her and sat the box of love letters next to it in the garage and said "here is the box of letters we have written to each other." She looked at it and then finished what she was doing. When she left, to my surprise she put the mirror in her car and also came back for the letters. I didn't ask why. Just thought I would share because I found it interesting.
Tad
Hi Tad. Happy Thanksgiving!
Mine did similar Tad. But much like the mirror and letters,you need to let her go. What she does or doesn't do is her business. She may read every letter. Or she may burn them and throw the mirror away. Either way, let them go. Let her be her and let her take this part of her journey the way she knows how. Do it with gratitude and peace, Tad. Do it sooner than later as best you can.
The anger? It's there to help you. Face it. Figure out why and deal with that emotion rather than let it fester.
Peace,
AJ
Tad, same thing as Ajay said went through my mind when I read your ost. When you keep an eye on her and wonder why, you are still not detaching.
Let her go. You need to work on:
1. Not trying to mind read - wondering what her motivation is for doing whatever she is doing.
2. Putting her out of your mind, tell yourself yu are not intereted in her antics
3. Anticipating her next move, trying to interpret her moves - like is it positive? negative? etc.
4. Acting in ways that you think will matter to her, especially when she is around.
5. Finding out what she is saying or doing with the kids. Unless it is very important, tell your kids not to talk to you abut their mom.
These are a few concrete examples for you. If you can work on one thing at a time I think it will help. Also, next time you post can you write just about yourself, what you are doing, your self analysis, instead of about your W? its about time you concentrate on yourself!
Thanks everyone.
I just realized that it has been nearly two weeks since I have posted anything.
There really isn't anything new to report. Thanksgiving was terrible though. S25 was with a friend, S21 and S16 were with XW and S19 and me were at S19's girlfriend's house. Talk about a divided family!
I am in the process of getting out of this house. I should know more soon about a place that I found.
I am also deleting my "radio personality" FB page and making one that is just me. No more Mr. Radio.
I have been working a lot of hours because of the holiday shopping season. It's a lot of work, but atleast I am busy and it keeps my mind occupied.
I really am thankful for this site and all of the people here. I think some of the advice may be starting (finally) to sink in.
While in the car the other day, I realized that I would love to have my wife back, but I'm not going to live a miserable life if she never does come back. I'm convinced that she really is crazy. I'm also convinced that she will be the one with the broken heart someday.
I decided to officially date too. Nothing serious, but just for some fun. If something serious DOES happen, then it does.
I don't talk to XW much at all anymore. However, two days ago I got a lovely text from her telling me that leaving me was the best choice she has ever made. She also told me that I was so controlling. I think I read somewhere once that MLC is a lot about control. It still hurts, but I don't let it hurt or bother me as much as it used to.
That's about it for now.
Thanks for everything.....
Tad
Her need to text you this stuff is just evidence of the craziness...It stinks that you have to deal with that. It's SOOOOO over the top and makes no sense considering that your d. is final. She should have no reason to text anything...and yet she does... she took a one-way ticket to crazytown.
But it's nice to see the changes you are making, the alt change is interesting, and it's not that I'm trying to make something out of nothing, but the idea of you taking charge of who "you" are now is really important and empowering...keep it up!!
She also told me that I was so controlling. I think I read somewhere once that MLC is a lot about control.
Depressed people are normally controlling.
So a CONTROLLING person does not want anyone to control them.
SO she is either projecting on you or just not wanting to admit that she is controlling by blaming YOU for anything that you might have done.
Like you smiled or trying to breathe.
So you were controlling because you used up the oxygen that was surrounding her space.
Let it go and you are on the right track that someday she might wake up and realize that she lost you along the way.
Tad,
I'm sorry that Thanksgiving wasn't all it was cracked up to be this year, but next year it will be better. The first year of holidays, anniversaries, etc., after a divorce are uncomfortable milestones that we each have to go through to get to the other side. You will get to the other side...I have no doubts of that.
I'm glad to see that you are taking charge of your life and changing your alt and also wanting to move...good first steps to your new life.
As for your xw's texting...she's still trying to needle you and wants to see if she can still push your buttons. I'm glad you didnt' react. She needs to come to the realization that you are divorced and that she no longer has any say in your life or what you do. Projection? You betcha. Her life isn't a happy one and it's going to be a long time before she realizes that she lost the best man that she will ever find.
Keep moving forward...it's a slow process. Take every experience and allow it to wash over you and take what you can apply to your situation and toss the rest away. You are doing just fine as you move along the path of life.
Tad,
Good job in not responding to the X's spew.
Snodderly is so right. At some point you will become the WAxS and your XW the LBxS. The positions will be reversed. Her loss.
Thanks everyone. Snodderly, I really do believe this that you said:
she lost the best man that she will ever find.
Why? Not because I am so amazing, but because there just isn't a whole lot out there to choose from. She will find this out eventually I suppose.
Today was a little downer. I think it is because today is the one-year mark since she moved out.
S16 will turn 17 tomorrow. I'm going to take him and my other sons out to dinner on Friday.
Interesting:
I picked up S16 from XW's house tonight. She came out to the car and peeked her head into the passenger side and just kept looking at me. I didn't make eye contact. (It hurts to.) Finally, she said "Hey." I looked at her and she said "I guess I'll see you later." I said "Yeah."
S16 told me that over the weekend, she admitted to being "depressed" because she is divorced, "depressed" because she is broke and "depressed" because she will not be spending Christmas with our sons.
She did this.
Not me.
Tad
I know what you mean about it hurting to make eye contact. Avoiding it is a form of self-protection.
As much as it seems to hurt them, yes, this was their choice.
I've seen my XH appear to be "hurt" by his choices...and yet, earlier tonight, my XH changed his profile pic on FB to a pic of him and his GF. A pic where even though the lady doesn't really "need" a bra, she kind of is showing FAR too much of that area for a classy woman...
It stung like a SOFB to see that pic. He had had a pic of our cat who died as his profile pic for a month. So did I. I decided to change my pic to a pic of me alone in the last few days. XH chose to change it to a pic of him and OW.
Yeah it hurts...bad. I know I'm better looking by far. That makes me think geez, how can she be NICER than me??? But it's not that. It's that she represents a life I do not. A drastically different life.
These MLCers want a new life. They want to go version 2.0. They find a way to get version 2.0 fast. Then they get there and it's not all it's cracked up to be.
What we have to do is to really work hard at separating ourselves from what they have done/do. Honestly I think the best hope we have is to process what has happened as them dying.
Yes, it's THAT severe.
They died, and as a result, we have to move on with our lives as if we are widowed.
Tad,
Your xw is going to discover very quickly, as it appears already, that the grass isn't any greener on the other side of the fence. Well, she's the one that destroyed all that she had. You and your xw shared many years together and created beautiful children and memories together. That will eventually sink in in the months ahead. Please do not feel sorry for her, as she is just now getting a taste of what you have been going through for months.
Enjoy the time you spend w/your children. They grow up fast and she's missing out on the milestones. Take plenty of photos and know that your children feel safe w/you at this time.
Live your life to the fullest. Always try to find at least one good/happy thing each day to smile about. It will make the rest of your journey easier for you.
Something else that stands out, Tad. Your wife really does want to control you. To push your buttons. To know that you might be her plan-b.
She's wrong about that. I can see that now in your posts. You have been moving closer and closer to completely gone. My guess is you really are already or very quickly approaching that point of caring and wanting but being past the point of no return. Too much damage.
She is trying to control and to feed off your pain and responses. Allowing that would delay your healing.
Are you tired of being in pain yet Tad? If so, hang on. She'll try really hard for a while. Slowly and methodically you need to shut down those avenues she uses to "attack" and to get to you. As Jack once put it, you need to rip out the connections so there can be no path to you. Only then will the LOS be complete. She needs to feel the loss of signal so she can hear the voices in her own head.
It really is the only way....
Cheers,
AJ
Thanks everyone. It has been awhile since I have posted. Not much new in sitch with XW. We don't talk. She sent a text the other day and I did not respond. I don't respond much at all anymore unless absolutely necessary.
I do have a question though:
If "going dark" is for me to be able to handle this better, isn't it also going to make it easier on her?
I've dated a few women, but none of them compare to my X.
All I've thought about for some reason the last few days is how things were when we were so much younger. Not sure why...
I also think it is sad how much she is missing out on. She has no idea that S17 wants to go to the police academy when he is done with high school and has no idea that S19 proposed to his girlfriend last February. It really makes me feel bad for her.
As for me, I've been working a lot of hours, I've deleted my "radio" FB page and found out today that I got the townhouse that I wanted. I will move in the middle of January.
I'm doing much better "most" days, but man do I miss her.
Thanks for all you do.....
Tad
Thanks everyone. It has been awhile since I have posted. Not much new in sitch with XW. We don't talk. She sent a text the other day and I did not respond. I don't respond much at all anymore unless absolutely necessary.
I do have a question though:
If "going dark" is for me to be able to handle this better, isn't it also going to make it easier on her?
1) So what if it does? You think that what you've done so far is working to get her back? Last I checked, you were divorced AND she still infuriates you.
The only thing I'm sure you never did for any amount of time is DETACH and go dark, So how can you even ask this?
2) and NO, I don't think it would make it easier for her. The "easiest" thing for HER is what she has now and has had for a year now, which is the constant ability to yank your chain. LEARN FROM THIS...
I've dated a few women, but none of them compare to my X.
WTH??
b/c they are not crazy? Are these other woman acting normal or kind to you? Do they interrupt and project their anger and inner turmoil onto you?
OR do you mean the woman don't compare to who your w once was? (or who you have morphed her into being in your memory???)
B/c that normal loving perfect woman you say you miss terribly, even after batchit crazy meanness from her, HAS BEEN MISSING for a solid year now...
so exactly who are you comparing these OW to?
If it's your present day wife, I would think any woman not in a psych hospital- would far exceed your w's behavior. You are not in touch with reality, Tad... and you are overlooking a whole ton of crap from her. Why? How does that help you at all?
All I've thought about for some reason the last few days is how things were when we were so much younger. Not sure why...
b/c you are in Stuckville; population YOU....there is a part of you that is so used to wallowing in your pain and despair, you make it worse than it needs to be so you can stay in the place you know; it's comfy.
Another part of you is sick and tired of feeling sick and tired - and that part of you is the part you need to heed.
I also think it is sad how much she is missing out on.
Not your problem...stop this train of thought. It's part of Stuckvile...
She has no idea that S17 wants to go to the police academy when he is done with high school and has no idea that S19 proposed to his girlfriend last February. It really makes me feel bad for her.
why focus on the ONE negative aspect of a positive thing in your life and your son's? Why not be happy for them and leave out the negative? Geez...
As for me, I've been working a lot of hours, I've deleted my "radio" FB page and found out today that I got the townhouse that I wanted. I will move in the middle of January.
^^^good
I'm doing much better "most" days, but man do I miss her.
sorry...but imo, you miss someone who has been gone for a very long time. That woman no longer exists.
Tad
nothing else for us to say Tad...good luck, make your Christmas a good one
and stop letting your pain seep into your son's lives, please...
you know, you really are in charge of your own life.
When you GET THAT,
and own it, your life will vastly improve.
Sigh Tad, good thing 25 got to it before I did.... her 2x4's always sound so effective.
Granted, you have improved a lot, but not quite.
You are one of those people who just can't let go, that you have to hold on to even just the pain. No wonder your W has gone crazy trying to shake you off.... she has truned into a cactus, full of bristles everywhere, and you still persist in hurling yourself at her spines. Oh man.
I agree with angel and 25 on the above stuff.
I don't get at all why you're dating a few women. Look, if you're still that attached to her, as you seem to indicate, why are you trying to find someone who "compares"??
You seem to be skipping the part where you learn how to live without being wrapped up in someone else romantically. Look at the people who are long-term in a good place on this board, (and I'm not even referring to me as I'm just 18 months post-bomb), and you find people who spent quite some time not dating, not trying to fill holes left by the LBS with other people.
Even if you break your attachment to your XW, if you're that quickly trying to find someone who might compare (and you were dating before your divorce was final), then it just comes off like you're filling one codependency with another.
I met a guy recently in a restaurant I go to a lot, and this was him, to a T. He dated soon after his XW and he separated. As a result, he could not handle being "alone." He was going woman to woman....and when I asked him what led to his divorce, he just kept saying "I don't even know, she just didn't want to be married anymore." It was like he learned zilch.
What happened to you and all of us is terrible. But the best you can do is try to learn something from it. I don't know that I see that going on. I see replacement of needs going on...
when I hear someone saying that they have "no idea" why their m ended, or describe it as having been "all wonderful when out of the blue, BAM a WAS leaves!"...
well, it's one thing to hear that when it's new.
But if that is still the story they give out a year later, when they've had time to reflect and look within
AND they've learned zilch, then they probably have no capacity for insight, or are too afraid to look within (not brave enough to look in the mirror bodes poorly for them as partners,) OR they are deep in denial.
Those are factors fatal to good r's. I'd skip past that person...
Tad, I'm left with a prayer I heard at a group meeting when the speaker said that
"there are times when I have so much to pray/ask for, that I recall that God knows all this so rather than summing up all my needs and requests, I'll just say , 'please God, please'".
That's how I feel here on this thread Tad.
So much has been said to you for over a year. And a lot of it has been said literally a hundred times or more. You learn 3 things, then forget 2, or all 3, and start over.
You seem to re-learn if faster the next time but we are still here on this board with essentially the same problem...you won't detach from a toxic relationship
even in the face of brutal behavior, a divorce that has been finalized, batchit crazy mean behavior in front of and to your son's...
you let yourself get sucked in and you won't stop no matter what we say.
SO I'm just going to say "please Tad, Please....learn."
When you finally do, my prayer will be a one word, "THANKS!"
25 years you're very right on the idea that if someone says they have no clue what happened a year later, that's a problem. For this guy it was 2 years later. He also didn't have any custody of his kid, which he kept breaking into tears over, and that's sad, but when I asked what happened there, he said "I don't know." My radar went off like crazy with him...one minute he was telling me that he was a very respectable guy in relationships who didn't sleep around and really respected women and was ready for rel., the next, I was told by a friend that he went up to the busboy to ask him where the "hot honeys" were because he wanted to "hook up" that night. This guy has spent a long time going into this restaurant and from what my friends there have told me, he laments about his terrible hand he's been dealt to anyone who will listen, but he does not do anything to "work on himself". He just finds women to distract him. At this point, when I or my friends are at the bar/restaurant and he comes in, we leave. The workers are calling him a leech ;-)
I went on a total of 4 hours of "dating" about 7 months after my divorce was over, and really it only amounted to 4 hours of talking to someone in a first meeting since we met in an online service. I felt instinctively it was far to early for this, and I guess everyone is different, but it's now another 5 months past those dates and I just don't look anymore because I feel like I'm still working on being ok with "me." I also don't think it's right to pull someone else into your vortex when you're still going through healing or transition. It's just not fair to that person. It's really no different from the WAS's behavior when they plunge into a new relationship. If you can be on here and talk about detachment and your words and actions express that you are "there", then date with no reservations. But Tad, your level of ATTACHMENT is so extraordinary in the face of such rotten and mean behavior, that in my opinion you have serious work to do on asking yourself why you have that level of attachment to pain before allowing any other women to think they have a chance in a relationship with you.
I mean, maybe these other women you've dated are attracted to "men in pain", but that isn't very healthy either...
I think 25 is already blue in the face..... and frothing at the mouth.....
Just like her, I also do get that feeling that I am banging my head on a wall when I post to you, although to a lesser degree because I am far from being a vet/expert, still being in the middle of the sitch myself, confused and backlsiding every now and then....but somehow, I come back....because
I think that I did get morbidly fascinated.... and I do learn from you and from what people post to you on what not to do, or avoid ( like I witnessed how pursuing and being to persistent can make the MLC'er ran so fast and so hard hat they virtually trip on their own feet and words).
I do pray though that you can turn this around.... that you will SEE what you have done wrong, and that you will use this knowledge to become a BETTER TAD FIRST OF ALL, NOT MAKE YOUR W A BETTER WOMAN OR MAKE YOUR SITUATION A BETTER ONE OR FIND A BETTER GF!
Tad, go back and read your thread from beginning to end..... detach from it, pretend you are reading someone else's story, and see if you can identify the areas you have to work on.
Thank you for the responses.
I appreciate the 2x4s. Especially yours 25.
I'm a little confused though...
I NEVER said my marriage was perfect. I said that I THOUGHT it was good and I THOUGHT she was happy.
Ive dated a few women and when I said they don't compare, I meant that they don't compare to the wife I used to know.
I also never said that I didn't do anything wrong. I know the mistakes I made. I just wish I had a chance to do if over again.
I am also still working on detachment. That is why I remain dark.
Tad
Tad I get totally that the women you are dating are not comparing to the woman you used to know.
What I think I'm trying to get you to ask yourself is, why are you trying to find a replacement for her? This has got to be on your mind if you are actively comparing the women you are dating to the woman your XW used to be.
Why are you trying to replace her when your divorce only just happened?
Maybe you are being approached and you are not doing the asking. If you're doing the asking, why are you doing so when you are "still working on detachment?" And if you're not doing the asking, then why are you agreeing to date and not saying you're just not ready at this point?
These answers aren't really for ME. They're for YOU.
I have to be honest. I've talked to a ton of people on this board, and I've never seen someone get into dating in such record speed. It makes me skeptical :-)
Again. Not attacking you at all...just asking YOU to ask yourself, what are you gaining from this right now? If the alternative to dating is "being without a woman in your life in any way", does that scare you/bother you? Why?
These questions are important in terms of you learning to detach, not just from HER, but from the idea of being codependent.
I know what you are saying Antonia. I've have been the one that has been approached and I say yes just to have a little fun I guess. There is nothing "romantic" about it at all. I guess if I was honest, I just miss having a female in my life. As for comparing them, it is not like I really was it was just I noticed that there is just nothing "there." That is the best I can explain it and I know I'm not doing a very good job at it. It doesn't feel "right", but it doesn't feel wrong either. I'm not seeing these women to "replace" her at all. Hell, I still want my W back very much.
It is almost 1AM here and I should be in bed but.....
UPDATE
As I was dozing off earlier, my phone rang. It was XW. I wasn't going to answer it, but I did because it was late and S17 is with her for the weekend. I wanted to make sure nothing was wrong.
She said she called "just to see how I was doing."
Ug.
We had a very good conversation for about 30-45 minutes or so. There was no ranting like usual. I did not hear what a terrible person I was or all of the things I've done wrong for the past 26 years.
She asked about my job....
my medication....
my plans....
my blood pressure....
my mom....
Then she told me about her life and her plans for S17 this weekend.
Weird.
Why does she do this to me?
Why?
I have so many more questions that I know I shouldn't ask.
...and yes, I am doing a little better, but damn it, I still love her (or the woman she was tonight.)
Tad
Tad, I don't having a problem with women asking men out. I do however have an issue with women who hit on a recently divorced man. This isn't very smart or emotionally mature. So it is hardly surprising that they aren't soul mates. You are clearly not stupid, but sometimes you aren't very bright.
And as for trying to understand why your xw calls, DON'T it is pointless.
Tad,
I have to agree w/Bea...I don't like to see recently divorced people hit on when the ink isn't dry, much less the document filed away in the court house. I know that you want to move forward and have fun, but you need to take some time to really get to know yourself and get your feet back on solid ground. You are still dealing with the divorce outcome, a mad hatter and your children, plus the holidays. I would back off a bit on the dating and get your life shored up first. Dating can come along later. There will be plenty of wonderful women out there that would feel priviledged/honored to date you when your are emotionally ready.
Your xw is pulling your coat tail once again. Why would she be calling you at that hour unless she can't sleep? Guilt is eating away at her and she wants to make sure you are at home and not out dating. She wants to make sure that you are right where she left you and that you will always be there when she has the need to talk. She got her fix. Next, time, allow the call to go to voice mail. She's an adult and even though she's the mad hatter right now, she can still take care of your son when he's visting with her.
Also, they do have moments of clarity and that could be why she called, but you will never understand the workings of her mind while she is so messed up...it's just not worth trying to figure it out.
Tad, it's time to stop being so readily available to her. She needs to learn that divorce means a split legally. It's time to focus on you and your family. The holidays are upon us...what are you planning to do for the holidays?
Please try not to over analyze anything she says or does...it will drive you insane. They are drive by emotions and everyone knows that emotions can create all kinds of crazy making. It's time to take care of YOU!
Thank you.
Beatrice, yeah I know I'm not very bright sometimes.
Honestly Snodderly, I have no plans for Christmas. I may visit my mom and that is about it.
I am going to cool it a bit on the dating.
You said:
She wants to make sure that you are right where she left you and that you will always be there when she has the need to talk.
Maybe but...she told our sons the other day that she doesn't care if I get married.....
The last few days have been okay, but today is a downer. It's the first one I've had in a while. Maybe because it is cold and raining outside.
Her call the other night still confuses the hell out of me. I don't even know why she would care especially if I was so terrible.
I'm leaving to pick up S17 from her house in a few minutes. I have to pick him up a little early because XW is going to a Christmas party....probably with the douchebag.
I'm pretty anxious for January 15th to get here. That is the day that I get the keys to my new place.
Tad
Thank you.
Beatrice, yeah I know I'm not very bright sometimes.
Honestly Snodderly, I have no plans for Christmas. I may visit my mom and that is about it.
I am going to cool it a bit on the dating.
You said:
She wants to make sure that you are right where she left you and that you will always be there when she has the need to talk.
Maybe but...she told our sons the other day that she doesn't care if I get married.....
So what if she said that? You seem to expect consistent behavior from her. Think about how unrealistic that expectation is.
In fact, it's irrational of you to think that her behavior should make sense or be consistent. The only things she has been consistent about is changing on a whim and being manipulative.
Thing is, you could change your response, but you have not in over a year.
I would get off the phone as soon as you verify that son is fine. There is nothing else to discuss.
She is not your pal, or an old friend.
She is your ex wife. She's an actively negative force in your life, who filed for divorce, blamed you for it, hurt your sons, and spewed venom off and on for a solid year.
I don't care anymore about who she WAS. Go ahead, Be grateful for those memories.
But when will you deal with what IS????...
The last few days have been okay, but today is a downer. It's the first one I've had in a while. Maybe because it is cold and raining outside.
Her call the other night still confuses the hell out of me.
I can't explain why you are still confused by this. I really can't.
I don't even know why she would care especially if I was so terrible.
I'm certain she likes the power she has over you. You keep giving that power to her. So, it's not really surprising when you think about that.
Her life isn't going so well but at least she can still yank your chain, blame you, AND count on a friendly ear when she feels like checking on you...
and the only person who can change any of that, is YOU.
I'm leaving to pick up S17 from her house in a few minutes. I have to pick him up a little early
because XW is going to a Christmas party....probably with the douchebag.
Well Geez Tad, you should spend a lot of energy wondering about that...and obsessing and worrying all night about what she is thinking or feeling or saying or doing or if she is dancing and laughing or not....
so don't bother GAL yourself, do NOT detach!!.... b/c hey isn't it way more fun to place your whole daily existence,
happiness and whether any joy will be "allowed" for you or your sons,
in HER "steady" hands?
I'm pretty anxious for January 15th to get here. That is the day that I get the keys to my new place.
Tad
I don't know why getting your new place is the "condition precedent" to you detaching. I think it's just another excuse to postpone GAL/Detaching..but I am glad for you to be out of the house.
but can you explain why will it make any difference?
Won't you still answer the phone when you know it's her, and won't you still listen to her go on and on as long as she holds onto the phone?
Won't SHE always be the one to decide how the conversation goes? And everything else?
what do YOU think it'll take for you to detach?
Tad- this is not the first time I've asked you this
and you ignored a lot of my questions from the post on 14 December.
Can you answer THAT ^^^question above?
Hey Tad,
Merry Christmas sir. There is a point where you don't give a rat's
A$$ anymore what she is doing or not doing. I so totally get what
you are going through. I still fall sometimes and get caught off
guard and get sucked into the vortex. I have not dated at all
and it really does not bother me one bit. I just happened to
look at your signature with your divorce date of 10/21/2011 and
it made me think of when my divorce was final on 10/20/2011 which
of course is one day earlier than yours and marked the 20th
wedding anniversary of our wedding date 10/20/1990. Somebody
has a sense of humor on that one but getting back to you, I have
walked some of those steps that you are too. It is becoming more
and more clear that my XW is totally gone and not someone that
I could live with in the alien form she is in. This is not going
anywhere fast. It will take years and I will move on since it
is unhealthy for me to try to salvage what is not salvageable.
This board has helped me beyond any of my expectations and
the people here are the best. I guess what I am trying to say
is if you are anything like me, letting go was very difficult
but not impossible. I have kept busy with my sons and work so
dating is not something that I am in a great hurry for. The
craziness will continue as long as my sons are in co-parenting
ages and will last for at least the next 10 years.
My brother just moved into a new home he had built
in the mountains north of you. I may visit him this spring. If I
do, I probably would be around for a week or so and would not
mind buying you a beer. I know you are on the alt.
Hang in there sir and you have a right to be down now and then
but realize that it is up to you to get yourself out of the
down times. Holidays can be tough for the LBS, especially the
first few. But, like I tell my son, we are going to make the
future great. It is our choice to make it great.
WS
I'm going to isolate two things from above: you mentioned that XW said she didn't care if you got married...then you said several times you just don't understand why she calls and keeps you on the phone so much if you were "as terrible" as she kept saying you were.
The obvious answer is what everyone has said already, that's she's yanking your chain. This is what she thrives on, she's done it for a year, and she's still doing it. She'll keep doing it until you put a stop to it.
But you still came back with saying you were confused by the behavior.
What I'm wondering is how big a part of you is telling yourself that her talking to you for that time in a nice way is some sort of evidence that she's thinking of giving you another chance. The reason I say this is that you have had a really consistent pattern of putting a ton of emphasis on any time she hasn't spewed, and you've kind of wondered if this meant that things were turning "in your favor." Sometimes I wonder if the reason you don't accept the obvious answer when it is pointed out by several people here is because you don't LIKE that answer, and you're wanting one of us to say, "gee, Tad, I think this means she's really confused about her feelings for you, maybe this means she's reconsidering..."
Just because she can play nice when it behooves her doesn't mean she's coming back. If you read the posts of people who are potentially reconciling, their exes are generally in depression and more or less in shock at their own past behavior, saying things about how they can't believe what they did, etc. Your XW is only in the beginnings of the whole "MLC journey", so to speak.
IF there is any chance in her future to "wake up", it can't happen if you keep so tied to her. She has to face the music. You're not letting her do it with these long conversations.
It's been a year, right? And not one boundary established from you yet. Until you start making and enforcing boundaries, you're at the whim of a crazy person who does not resemble the woman you were once with.
Tad,
Seriously man, stop taking her calls.
"Is S17 OK? He is? Good. Gotta go. (Click)"
Tad,
Did you ever burn your hand on the stove as a kid?
Did you ever do something crazy as a kids that cause you pain?
What did you do when that happened?
There is a point where you don't give a rat's
A$$ anymore what she is doing or not doing.
Hello WS.... That up there is priceless ^^^^^. That said, everyone reaches that point when they FINALLY are tired of feeling like doggie doodoo.
Tad,
Control, Buttons, Pain, Acceptance, Happiness and distance. What do these words mean to you. Oh...and please answer 25's question.
She has to face the music. You're not letting her do it with these long conversations.
Priceless Antonia....priceless!
Eric
Tad
Sigh...........
Two steps forward.....
Back to square one....
square 1. Exactly. You failed the test.
If you had learned anything, when she called you, you would have been polite, asked if there is any problem with S17, if none, and she tried to engage you, you would have answered a question then made your excuse to get off the phone.
YOu would have come to the conclusion that:
She is reeling you in (based on her efforts to be nice).
You would have shown her that you did not need her nice convo to feel good about yourself. That you do not give a dmn about her life. That she has her own separate from yours life now and you have your own. If you were detached, you would not even let her lead the conversation.
You cannot see the forest for the trees, Tad. How will you ever get to your destination if you are forever lost in the nitty gritty of your sitch?
What does it matter what she thinks right now? A batchit crazy persons logic doesn't mean a thing. If she hates you today, likes you tomorrow, what is the assurance she won't hate you again the day after?
Tad,
i see myself in you! You might not contact your XW but will always be there for her. After all, isn't it how a good husband should be? NOT IN MLC's land!!!!!
In my sitch, I'm set-up and rejected and s*ckered in, and trashed , i'm perfect and damaged good.....
What do you think i suffer from, after all this?
I see myself as passive-agressive. Makes sense if you've read the above...
I try to validate what he is telling me but he spins so fast that i lose my chain of tought. I end-up spinnig, myself.
I'm going crazy. Today, i cried like a baby because i became overwhelm with the fact that someone (still don't know who) cleaned my driveway while i was at work. The smallest act of kindness from anybody is like a miracle to me. That is how emotionally unstable i am, 30 months pass BD.
Don't make the same mistake i did Tad. DETACH AND RUN.
If she EVER wakes-up, she'll know where to find you. If it is to late for her, it will mean that you have gotten a better life then what she could offer you!
You have made amazing progress since your journey began.
Do the battle of 1 day. ( poem that you can read in my thread )
I wish you inner peace....
Tad,
When I think about your posts, and things that happen....
I am reminded of being a kid on a Saturday morning. You and your parents had this fun day planned, and then the Washing Machine broke. So your Dad called the repair place to have someone come and take a look at it. The repairman says that he has a few house-calls that day, but might be able to squeeze you in. And he will call if he can come around.
So the "fun" day gets put on hold. I mean, it is the time before cell phones, and portable electronic communication. And the family waits.......
You don't want to venture too far out of range, in fear that you will miss the call from the repairman. You remember doing nothing except waiting. Sometimes the repairman called, sometimes he didn't until MUCH later......
Yet you waited.....
I see you there Tad.....waiting.
So afraid that you will "miss" her call , if you step outside for too long. If you take a step forward.....
And every time you hear her voice on the other end....all the progress YOU have made, gets washed down the drain...You still expect that one thing , or event, to cause her to "wake up"
Sitting and waiting for her to "get over this" or "get through this"....allows you to sit comfortably waiting, for her to realize her mistake, and come back to you, begging and pleading to take her back.....
It allows you to sit back, and tell people that you "did all you could" because you "stood" for her, for however long it happens to be at the time the question arises.
What you won't mention is how you avoided the hard questions...
How you ignored the good stuff that you could have been working through, so that you don't have to be the victim in this.
How you just survived, and have just been waiting for her to realize her mistakes......
You have the world in front of you Tad....yet you have let your marital status "define" who you are.
You have four boys...right ?
You have spent your whole life around the music industry.....right ?
I challenge you to look back through ANY of your threads, where you actually talked about any of that, in a way that DOESN'T reflect a memory of your marriage.....
Dam.....I challenged you to post for a week without talking about your X......and you met the challenge, by not posting AT ALL.....
So once again.....I challenge these questions to you......
Who is Tad ?
What defines Tad ?
What do you see in your future Tad ?
I find that 2x4's can be harsh and depressing sometimes. We need to hear them but we also need guidance, help in figuring this out.
I gathered a list of core values. I want you to look at TAD the man, not Tad the father, not Tad the XH but TAD THE MAN.
Who is he and how does he wants to be perceived by the people he meets.
Abundance Acceptance Accessibility
Accomplishment Accuracy Achievement
Acknowledgment Activeness Adaptability
Adoration Adroitness Adventure
Affection Affluence Aggressiveness
Agility Alertness Altruism
Ambition Amusement Anticipation
Appreciation Approachability Articulateness
Assertiveness Assurance Attentiveness
Attractiveness Audacity Availability
Awareness Awe Balance
Beauty Being the best Belonging
Benevolence Bliss Boldness
Bravery Brilliance Buoyancy
Calmness Camaraderie Candor
Capability Care Carefulness
Celebrity Certainty Challenge
Charity Charm Chastity
Cheerfulness Clarity Cleanliness
Clear-mindedness Cleverness Closeness
Comfort Commitment Compassion
Completion Composure Concentration
Confidence Conformity Congruency
Connection Consciousness Consistency
Contentment Continuity Contribution
Control Conviction Conviviality
Coolness Cooperation Cordiality
Correctness Courage Courtesy
Craftiness Creativity Credibility
Cunning Curiosity Daring
Decisiveness Decorum Deference
Delight Dependability Depth
Desire Determination Devotion
Devoutness Dexterity Dignity
Diligence Direction Directness
Discipline Discovery Discretion
Diversity Dominance Dreaming
Drive Duty Dynamism
Eagerness Economy Ecstasy
Education Effectiveness Efficiency
Elation Elegance Empathy
Encouragement Endurance Energy
Enjoyment Entertainment Enthusiasm
Excellence Excitement Exhilaration
Expectancy Expediency Experience
Expertise Exploration Expressiveness
Extravagance Extroversion Exuberance
Fairness Faith Fame
Family Fascination Fashion
Fearlessness Ferocity Fidelity
Fierceness Financial independence Firmness
Fitness Flexibility Flow
Fluency Focus Fortitude
Frankness Freedom Friendliness
Frugality Fun Gallantry
Generosity Gentility Giving
Grace Gratitude Gregariousness
Growth Guidance Happiness
Harmony Health Heart
Helpfulness Heroism Holiness
Honesty Honor Hopefulness
Hospitality Humility Humor
Hygiene Imagination Impact
Impartiality Independence Industry
Ingenuity Inquisitiveness Insightfulness
Inspiration Integrity Intelligence
Intensity Intimacy Intrepidness
Introversion Intuition Intuitiveness
Inventiveness Investing Joy
Judiciousness Justice Keenness
Kindness Knowledge Leadership
Learning Liberation Liberty
Liveliness Logic Longevity
Love Loyalty Majesty
Making a difference Mastery Maturity
Meekness Mellowness Meticulousness
Mindfulness Modesty Motivation
Mysteriousness Neatness Nerve
Obedience Open-mindedness Openness
Optimism Order Organization
Originality Outlandishness Outrageousness
Passion Peace Perceptiveness
Perfection Perkiness Perseverance
Persistence Persuasiveness Philanthropy
Piety Playfulness Pleasantness
Pleasure Poise Polish
Popularity Potency Power
Practicality Pragmatism Precision
Preparedness Presence Privacy
Proactivity Professionalism Prosperity
Prudence Punctuality Purity
Realism Reason Reasonableness
Recognition Recreation Refinement
Reflection Relaxation Reliability
Religiousness Resilience Resolution
Resolve Resourcefulness Respect
Rest Restraint Reverence
Richness Rigor Sacredness
Sacrifice Sagacity Saintliness
Sanguinity Satisfaction Security
Self-control Selflessness Self-reliance
Sensitivity Sensuality Serenity
Service Sexuality Sharing
Shrewdness Significance Silence
Silliness Simplicity Sincerity
Skilfulness Solidarity Solitude
Soundness Speed Spirit
Spirituality Spontaneity Spunk
Stability Stealth Stillness
Strength Structure Success
Support Supremacy Surprise
Sympathy Synergy Teamwork
Temperance Thankfulness Thoroughness
Thoughtfulness Thrift Tidiness
Timeliness Traditionalism Tranquility
Transcendence Trust Trustworthiness
Truth Understanding Unflappability
Uniqueness Unity Usefulness
Utility Valor Variety
Victory Vigor Virtue
Vision Vitality Vivacity
Warmth Watchfulness Wealth
Wilfulness Willingness Winning
Wisdom Wittiness Wonder
Youthfulness Zeal
There you have it!
If your personal core values list is still too long and bulky, chip away at it some more until you only have about 10 values on your list. Make that part of who you are and know that this is your code (or map) to your best life.
Once you know who you are and what you stand for, you'll be in a good place to make good, healthy decision for you/yourself.
You will be able to set goals that fits into your life. If you are happy with the man you are, others will be drawn to your "joie de vivre".
I need to send this one to myself! ha!ha!
Hope this help....
Tad,
I was going to go through all of your posts to show you how many times people have asked you questions about YOU, about what YOU want to do for YOU, about learning to really detach and move on. Sorry but about 6 hours in, I had about 600 quotes.
I’m not saying this to be hard dude. Look maybe some folks will not come out and just say it. F it I will. Your stuck man! Totally freaking stuck. I have been stuck before man. It [censored].
You still have not figured out that nothing YOU do will change her mind. Nothing you say, do not say, do, do not do, manipulate, do not manipulate, control, do not control. Will change HER mind.
Only she can.
So what is a dude to do?
Option 1 – Stay stuck forever….always looking over your shoulder, always worried about what she will say do or thing. Dude….ya may not want to hear this but she has been F’ing someone else. She has divorced YOU.
Option 2 – Learn to accept that RIGHT now…and maybe for a very long time, she is lost, gone, jumped off the deep end. She has checked out. If you can accept this and THEN TAKE BACK YOUR LIFE. You will feel better.
I am years into this…years….my XW is so f’d up it aint funny. Yesterday she calls and when I tell her not to….her response…”what you don’t want to hear my sexy voice”? My response….”no I do not, that is for you and whom ever you are with”. Dude, they want to keep you close, want you to stay “waiting for them”. It really is the ultimate power trip. So ya feel like you are going to continue to give you power over to someone that does not appreciate you..
F it….let me be more direct. Cause honestly….I think you need to hear it.
Where my friend is your self respect? Your mojo? Where is the man that she fell in love with? He is freaking lost in his own pool of pity, loss of confidence, doubt….a ton of negative stuff in this pool. Do you want to keep swimming in this pool? Have you considered that maybe just maybe you are used to being in this pool? Have you considered that maybe you have some deeper chit to deal with…..most notably getting back your self respect?
Tad – time to man the f up. Stop side stepping the real issue. Stop expecting everyone to tell you it is gonna be okay. Stop expecting that all of sudden she is gonna wake the F up. Stop it. Make YOURSELF a promise – to be happy dude. I actually forgot how old you are….but dude, life is short man. Go freaking live it. Let her go. Give her what it is she wanted.
This is a hard post dude and maybe I will get banned for it. I say F it…if….it finally wakes your as* up.
Step off the damn rollercoaster already.
One big lesson I have learned…….in order to love someone else….YOU MUST FIRST LOVE YOURSELF!
You know how to reach me….even if that call is to tell me off. I dare ya – call me… double dog dare ya!
FTR, this post is the edited version.
Oh...and
I find that 2x4's can be harsh and depressing sometimes
I find 2x4's CRITICAL in trying to help someone see where they may be stuck. The old saying....if it stings, well look at it.
Eric
I find that 2x4's can be harsh and depressing sometimes. We need to hear them but we also need guidance, help in figuring this out.
While I agree in principal, I disagree that one getting their hand held throughout this, or multiple choice questions, can be useful in finding one's own answers....
My post was about Tad not doing his own work.
There can be a distinct difference between a 2x4 , and some brutal honesty, with that difference being how the advice is taken.
These are merely my observations here, based on what I have seen and lived through. They can be taken in whatever context you care to take them in....
I apologize if I offended you in any manner....
Although, I stand by what I said to Tad.
Guys,guys,guys,
i wasn't attacking anyone. I was thinking of my own circles of anger and depression. When you get really low, you need the 2x4's but you also want guidance and support.
Tad knows, you guys are his support. He comes on this site for the same reason we do. Why not give him other things to try?
Why not try another approach since he is not listening to your advice?
We want him to focus on himself, right?
Sorry if I offended anyone! It wasn't my intention!
I think Eric and Mach made some terrific points in their posts. There are many times that I've wanted to say a lot of what's been said above and I erred on the side of caution because I'm not big on direct 2 x 4's...I try to reason with people and avoid saying anything I think might be too harsh.
However, I've posted more help to Tad than any single person on this entire board in the past year, and spent more time coming up with ways to say "this is why you go dark" and "this is how" and "this is a way you begin to GAL" or whatever, and no matter how I present advice or alternatives, the fact remains, that nothing changes in Tad's approach to his XW, and I know an awful lot about Tad's XW whom I will never meet, but I know nothing about Tad himself, his goals for himself, his dreams, his plans for how he's going to GAL and how he's going to protect himself from his XW's onlsaught of manipulative behavior.
It's almost kind of insulting, really, to have all these people's true life experience discounted, time and again. The thing that I respect about so many people here is that when they have been challenged with questions, they have done "the work" to look inside and answer those questions.
To me, if someone is going to take the time to give me a 2 x 4, some constructive criticism, as has been done to me from time to time, then I owe it to them to TRY to answer and TRY to work on myself and stop being comfortable in the victim role.
I feel like I have tried "nearly everything" in order to help Tad. I feel like nothing gets through.
I have wondered if the only thing I personally haven't tried is going dark MYSELF with Tad.
Obviously I haven't yet or I wouldn't be posting this. But it has crossed my mind.
I feel badly for what Tad has gone through, because I know what it's like, just as all of you do. But there comes a time you have to pull yourself out of the muck or life will never, ever change.
Point taken
I apologize!
TAD, YOU HAVE ALOT OF PEOPLE HERE, WHO WANT TO HELP BUT, YOU NEED TO APLY SOME OF WHAT YOU LEARN.
what antoniaB said....
it is frustrating and feels fruitless. I have posted long, numerous posts on this thread.
To see such big backslides this long out makes me feel, intuitively, that Tad is not a strong man.
Tad, you must know that if you are a weak man, that is not attractive.
Whether it's true or not is beside the point.
What you are giving off, reeks of weakness and neediness. That has gotten you here.
What are you going to do to change that? More of the same?
OR - You could try one of the 4382 ideas suggested here.
your life, your choice.
All I can say that is that nothing ever gets done without the proper motivation. We can all tell you exactly what to do and how to do it but, it is up to you to follow through.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
My point is, what is YOUR motivation Tad?
What do you want to see happen?
You are at the very important cross in the road where a very hard decision has to be made for the sake of yourself. If the R survives, then great. But you have to save yourself first.
It is like helping a drowning victim. You have to learn how to swim first , before you can help them.
Good luck! I am cheering for you!
Hey Tad
I am still waiting for that call and YOUR response.
How about this? I was thinking of writting an application that would auto send you a text every 30 mins asking you to respond. He he he....
On a serious note....
Ready to roll up the sleeve and do some of the serious work?
Eric
Still waiting Tad......
I'll be available at 10PM tonight...my time.
Oh...the application that I am writing is almost done.
Eric
Hi everyone. Just wanted to check in.
I AM NOT IGNORING YOUR questions.
My internet at my house has been down and my move out date has been moved to Jan 9th.
I will be back soon once I get settled in.
I've done a lot of thinking and will share my thoughts soon.
Thanks for everything.
Tad
TAD!
GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK!
I won't lie, i was worried about you!
I can't wait to see your update.
Here's to a wonderful NEW YEAR
And a warm ADIEU to the old!
Here's to happiness, good times, good cheer
And the many joys yet to unfold!
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU, MY FRIEND!
Hi there. I'm back.........
I've started a new thread that can be found here:
Tad's Overdue UpdateTad