Hi -
I have a thread posted also in newcomers but wanted some specific advice for DB-ing techniques when the separated spouse is still living at home, which makes it a more unique situation.
First of all, H is clearly in MLC and exhibits so many of the wacky behaviors. I have been trying to give him "space" as much as I can under the same roof - he stays in the basement. I try not to be in the same room as him (unless I am there first) and try not to talk much unless he initiates, I pretty much never call him when he is out, I try my very best not to ask about his whereabouts and who is with. I don't plan anything around him and his plans because frankly he doesn't usually tell me anything going on.
Any other suggestions? Also, any other ideas on how to detach? It KILLS me that he doesn't want to tell me much of anything, is so secretive, and obviously doesn't want me to ask.
The kids are always asking things like when daddy will be home and I am tired of that question - I have started just answering "I don't know, he didn't tell me."
Any advice/suggestions would be welcome! Thanks. Do you think he even notices?????
TF,
No suggestions, but many thanks for posting this. I'm interested in the feedback you get on this post as my sitch is similar. Good luck and I look forward to the feedback you get.
(((((tf)))))
Well, when I saw the title the word that came to mind is DETACH! How is a different trick altogether, of course. It sounds to me like you are on the right track, as far as he is concerned.
I think the real key is to get on the right track as far as you are concerned. Move the focus from what you do with respect to him to what you are doing for you. GAL. Don't let it kill you that he doesn't want to tell you anything, as long as that's happening you haven't detached.
Right now it isn't important (in my opinion) if he is noticing anything. You need to take care of yourself, the important person to notice is you!
When I have a chance I will read you other posts, and see if I have any other ideas.
Thanks for the advice. I know the times I am able to detach better I feel better. I tend to get in modes when I want to over-analzye everything, every little "clue" or thing he says (not that I believe a lot of it now). Now I know that is DEFINITELY not detaching.:)
I was overly anxious this morning (and even threw up a couple times) due to trying to analyze and figure out psycho behavior from last night - so not good. I have already lost over 20 pounds on the MLC diet - and I couldn't afford that much so can't afford more!
One thing I have noticed is the longer I go without calling him, the less I "need" to call him.
Another question for anyone with advice on the situation - how much do I acknowledge his presence in the house? I am trying to be calm, normal, appear happy, etc. and not follow him around and trying not to really initiate conversation (except to maybe ask how his day was - or should I not do that?).
I am in the same boat as you asking the same question awhile back. I have decided to model the relationship that I would like to have, but also mirroring my H's moods. If he is in a good mood & has partaken in or initiated conversation earlier in the evening, I might tell him a funny story about something the kids did that day, or ask him if he heard about XYZ on the news (something interesting). Lighthearted conversation.
When H comes in the door, I very cheerfully greet him. No physical touch, but Hey! How are you? then I have family dinner ready for him once he changes. I can, at that time, ask him about his day.
Don't try to analyze his words or his actions! From everything I've read and seen he's not putting thought into them, so trying to see any deeper meaning in them is a waste of your energy! If you could ask him about something he said yeasterday (AND DON'T DO IT!!!!!!), he probably wouldn't even remember saying it, let alone know any deeper meaning!
Good news, you can see that you feel better when you are more detached! That's some good motivation.
I think that you should be polite to him, but nothing more. I think I would go with, "Hi!", and continue on your way, rather than, "Hi, how was your day?", and wait for his response. If he wants to tell you something, he will. And if that happens, listen a lot, and keep your mouth shut!
I could be wrong, and what I did didn't "work" (though I don't think MLC was a big part of my sitch), but I think detaching and GAL are still very real keys.
Thank you both for your responses. I will try that. You're right, VH, it does seem a lot like he doesn't really remember what he says. Then again I don't believe a lot of it anyway.
It's hard to not ask how his day was, etc. because I still care about him but I guess that is not what he wants right now - wants space - so maybe this will help.
I'm not very good at posting but will try to help.
When my SO was going through MLC we lived in the same house and
it is very hard. There were times I thought it would be easier to live apart and even though he would scream at me to get out
I refused to leave. He was in MLC for over three years and is just now starting to come out of it. There was a time when we didn't even speak when we got home from work or eat together.
We also ended up in completely different rooms on opposite sides of the house, with one of us going in the front door and the other out the back anytime we left. At first I follwed him all around the house and kept trying to get him to talk but after a while I just left him alone.
I had the hardest time not asking what he was doing or where he was going and then when he was gone not calling. Everytime I did he either didn't answer the phone or was so defensive I regretted calling. Like you I lost a lot of weight because of the stress.
I detached by GAL and making a list of home projects I wanted to do so I could concentrate on them. We didn't have small children at home so I made myself renew some friends that I had lost contact with, bought some new clothes and even signed up for a dance class.
How long has your husband been in MLC?
Sure, you are good at posting!:) It helps to hear from someone who is going through the same stuff.
It is hard to say how long he has been in MLC. I think probably going close to a year now, with the self doubts, etc. He didn't share much with me about it until about Thanksgiving. Then around the first of the year is when he started in with the anger, first directed at himself, everything around him, and then of course me. The bomb was about three months ago and he has been sleeping in the basement since. The crazy behavior started now looking back quite slowly maybe around Thanksgiving-ish with the dying of hair and starting to buy the new clothes.
He is around home today and the kids aren't home currently and he is a bear. I am ignoring him. HOWEVER, he is out back working in the yard for the second afternoon and he has done pretty much absolutely NOTHING around the house for months so I don't know if this is a good sign or not.
How are things between you and your H now?
I would love any advice people have - this is such a tough thing. It is harder to GAL with the kids. I am trying to get out more with them this summer but I work at home and have to do that, too. And I pretty much always have to do things with the kids which is fine. I have definitely found a newfound appreciation for them through all of this. They ground me now.
Mine had the self doubts and all of a sudden started screaming at me. He was never one to yell and we didn't argue much, then all of a sudden everything was an arguement which in turn would end up in a screaming match. I finally learned to just not scream and argue because if I said it was blue he would scream no it's green. Mine just let himself completely go. He was a big man to begin with but gained even more weight and wore the oldest clothes he owned. There for a while I was afraid he would quit showering but lucky he didn't go that far.
Even though it's hard that is the best to ignore them. Mine didn't do anything around the house either and last year let his two adult children move in with their SO and no one did anything as far as cleaning up. I had to learn when in Rome do as they do
which bothered me to see the house such a wreck all the time.
I am not a neat freak but I do expect people to pick up after themselves. No one noticed that I was trying to clean up after everyone until I just stopped. I would stop and eat dinner on my way home because I knew there wouldn't be any clean dishes.
I was already in IC which helped me to deal with it and not feel guilty for not having dinner cooked.
He is much better and we are actually getting along better but have a long way to go. There are some days I still have my doubts but they are getting fewer and fewer.
You can always take your kids to the park for a picnic to spend time with them and also to get out of the house. Before I finally concentrated on GAL, I would drive around the interstate just to be gone from home.
Well, it certainly is easier for me to ignore him when he is in the mood he seems to be in today - petulant teenager. Yikes!
I had actually thought about the park thing with the kids but we have had lots of afternoon rain lately. One of these days! For months we were lucky if he came home for dinner even one time per week and the past couple of weeks he has been home I think three to four times. Amazing! I get no warning, of course, he will just show up or not. But once last week he actually called to say he wouldn't be home. I about fell out of my chair. But I thought if he was out and came home and we were GONE on a picnic, what would he do?:)
You are already further along that I was. I had a very hard time ignoring him because we had always talked about everything so
I was busy trying to talk it out and now that I look back on it,
it was one of the worst things I could have done. To this day I still don't ask about to much and sometimes he just blabs on and on while I sit there and listen.
We have had a lot of rain as well. After the kids moved out again and I would come home if he wasnt' there I just went about my evening and would only cook for myself. He didn't notice or care at the time that there wasn't anything made for him. To this day I don't know if or where he ate. Sometimes I want to know and other times I don't. What did you say when he called to say he wouldn't be home? When my SO started calling me I would say thanks for letting me know and sometimes he would say bye and sometimes just hang up on me. I hate to say this but he probably wouldn't do anything. If he asks where you were of course tell him the truth and if he wonders why you didn't ask him you can say. I wasn't sure if you wanted to go or you weren't here and I didn't know what time you were going to be here. When I would leave to go do something if he was there when I came home he never asked where I was.
That is one of the hardest things in all of this - that he doesn't seem to care much about what I do at all. He is kinda connected to the kids (they are still pretty young) and seems to be working to reconnect more after basically ignoring them for a few months. SOME progress is that he will sometimes ask about my day, or how I slept, or something along that lines but not all the time.
He has never been a huge talker but now is intentionally shutting me out. Painful! When he called to say he wasn't going to be home, I honestly don't remember what I said. I waited for him to tell me where he was going but he didn't, just said "that's it." I didnt' ask. Then I think he went on to ask something about the kids.
You have to learn to ignore them. They are like two year olds having a teething temper tantrum. The less you buy into their drama, the better. It's hard when you are look are the person you married to and they are acting out in a foreign behavior.
They are moody, they don't like anything or anyone and you can't please them no matter how hard you try. What do you do? Treat them as a roommate who is having a bad day and just go on about your business. When you do this, this allows them time to fume and get it out of their systems.
It's very difficult when they are at home acting like this, but you can do it, if you just remember, they are acting out and this is all part of the growing up stage that we all went through a while ago. Unfortuantely, they didn't complete that part of growing up and now they have to.
Good luck!
Thanks for your input, snodderly. That's exactly what it was like around here yesterday - grumpy, moody, sullen, barely speaking, slamming doors!, etc. It was a relief when he went out. I did a good job of ignoring and concentrating on the kids and what I needed to get done and being as pleasant as possible but not really saying much of anything to him. If it was one of the kids I would have sent them to their rooms until they could come out and "act nice.":)
trusting, something that helps me is remembering that I am not necessarily the cause of their bad moods. Maybe I am, but maybe I am not. There's a big world out there that can set them off!
I also notice that my H can turn on his charm and be sweet as pie (even to me) when other folks are around but when it's just me and him we can live in total silence. It used to be silence thick with tension. Now it's just silence. I try to look at it as 'at least he feels comfortable enough around me to be how he feels'.
Your hide will get thicker. Think of it as water rolling off a duck. You get to be the duck. Gliding smoothly across the water but paddling like mad under the surface.
WCW - good analogy about the duck.:) I am finding it easier and easier to detach, and to not be focused on where he is, what he is doing, trying to analyze his actions, etc.
Yesterday was another day (when he was around which wasn't a whole lot - HOWEVER was home for dinner for the third night in a row - record we haven't seen for months!!!) where he was moody and non-commmunicative, even with the kids. I ignored him for the most part, just pleasant when I did speak to him.
Other days recently he has seemed like "himself" again, more relaxed around me, actually doing stuff around the house, stepping in to deal with the kids (again, not something I have seen for awhile) and in some ways those days are harder because I have to keep reminding myself he thinks he doesn't love me anymore.
Then the alien takes over again . . .
I can say this week for the most part I have felt truly content and even happy - what a difference that makes! I am faking it til I am making it!
Trusting,
I used to post here under a different name but for personal suspected snooping reasons, I stopped posting and have just been lurking and learning and growing. Yes I have H at home in MLC. I believe this has been going on since early 2006, with a bomb drop in 2007, different crisis which sort of put the MLC on hold for a while, then bomb in 2008 with H moving into the other bedroom in September, which is where he still resides.
I read your thread over on Newcomers and yes I agree, this is a lonely place to be. Let me start by saying this, he is not there simply for financial reasons. Believe me, when they want out, they want out and nothing stops that. Although I do believe that they convince themselves that there are reasons/responsibilities that keep them from doing what they think they want, ie leaving.
I will tell you this is the hardest thing I have ever lived through and this is my second time around with it. H went through a partial QLC/MLC about ten years ago, and I lived through 2 years of hell then. He never finished and I don't believe that I learned the lessons I was supposed to learn so here we are again. This time, it has been much worse, as Snodderly so wisely reminds all of us. They need to finish this and if they don't, well.....Anyway, having H at home. Most days we pass in the night with little conversation. For a while he would blast me for not keeping him up to date on things with the house, son, etc because I was handling things myself because he didn't want me talking to him. So I started informing him of everything. Then I was talking to him too much. So I stopped. But I also stopped caring what his reaction is. Now, if I speak to him, which is almost always by his initiation, I may or may not mention to him what is going on. The electric bill was 400 this month, S got a job. When he comes home from work and asks where S is, I just chuckle to myself anymore because with the exception of going to church, s schedule has remained exactly the same for the last 7 years. So to ask where he is is really stupid.
Detatch. It is the only way. There are days you will feel like you don't like him let alone love him anymore and there are days you will wonder if you have lost your mind. Yes, it would be much easier in many ways to have them gone. Then the healing of the ending of the M could begin. In our situations, it starts and stops. There is no real healing in that regard for us. More like acceptance of a different way of life for now. However, you must remember that you choose to stay right now. And you always have the option to leave. That also makes it easier.
Yes they do notice what we are doing although they tend to keep it very quiet. At times I have wondered if H actually pays more attention to me now than when we were happy. When the replay behavior is bad, I don't think they notice as much, but then one day they look at you and realize you lost 30 pounds, but that didn't happen overnight. H has noticed when I sleep well and when I don't. He also has suddenly begun to recognize how much I do around here, for him, S, with my work. That is nothing new either, but I used to be lazy, so who knows...
The spending, well that is definately a "void filler". I have seen that with MIL. She is a depressed alcoholic who pays her bills, and then will spend every penny on junk, for herself and others, then cry poor and no money for gas to get to work until her next check to just turn around and repeat. My H has always been a bit of a spender. He learned that buying things is a way to show love, even if it is a pair of socks. But it got worse. Let's see, a new truck, plasma tv, two laptops, a gaming computer, 2 LCD tv's, really loud exhaust for the new truck. I can't complain too much as he works for the money for it and I too have benefited from his shopping sprees.
So I guess my best advice for you right now is to live your life. As if he was not there. Yes I too have house projects I was waiting to get finished. I've just started finishing them myself. He will like it or not. But I hate the way my laundry room looks. Take care of your kids. Know this will get harder before it gets easier. You will have good and bad days. And I will suggest to really enjoy the good ones, the ones that are good for you regardless of him because if he is still there as he starts to come out of it, unfortunately it gets harder.
I thought that would be the easiest part. I have begun to see the signs of a shift out of the replay/depression/withdrawl stages, although we have also done this twice before with him bouncing right back twice, to now mostly simply depression. I just sit here and watch for the most part and participate when I am approached. That is how I have survived so far.
Good luck.
Trusting
I have been reading for months now, but your thread is the first one I have wanted to reply to. So please bear with me. Who knows, maybe I will post my sitch someday.
My H and I are also living in the same house. I have been in our master bedroom, and he has been in the guest room for a year now. He is in MLC and has memorized the script well. It is so hard watching him come and go, wondering where he is, and who he's with. Sometimes I think it would be so much easier if he wasn't living here. What I have the most trouble with is when he comes home right after work, for two nights in a row ( we eat dinner and watch a movie together ) and then the third night he comes home, changes his clothes and is gone for several hours. When he comes home, he barely says anything to me, and goes straight to his room.
I don't want to hijack your thread, so I won't go into anything more here. I just wanted to let you know that there is someone else out here that is still living with their MLC'r.
Yes this is the script
the crazy, erratic behavior
the bomb
the disappearing acts
the withdrawal
watch your bank accounts
they spend
secretly they spend so they will try to cover this up if at all possible
take care of yoursself
therapy is helpful for LBS
usually MLCer will not go or they will quit claiming M is over
OW are usually already in place
try to have no R talks
go about your life, caring for your kids
try to validate and appreciate MLCEr ( difficult)
but that seems to get them to talk to us again
good luck
peace
Thanks for your responses. Mlj, I was a "lurker" for awhile, too, before I started to post I too hate it when he goes out for hours and doesn't say where he is going. If I dwell on it, I just get mad that he thinks he has the "right" to treat me with so little consideration. And he does the same thing - heads down to the basement saying little to nothing usually when he comes in.
I have seen some positive changes in his particularly the last couple of weeks. He is finally taking an interest in the house and yard and projects that need to be done for the first time in MONTHS. I am not sure what, if anything, that means. He has more time with work slowed down but he is also choosing to be home more it seems. He also is not only spending more time with the kids and actually connecting with them rather than just being near them, if that makes sense. He has even been more friendly with me and making more eye contact. He even seems to be telling me more where he is going/what he is doing (though I don't necessarily believe everything I hear).
I am not sure whether to be CAUTIOUSLY optimistic or not. He still is displaying replay behavior (though that seems to be settling a bit) and spending lots of money (seriously, it is like all reason is gone) though. And then there are the moody days.
Cat, my H also went through a QLC crisis probably about 10 years ago though it was very mild and he even acknowledged it recently (but not calling it a "crisis"). He obviously didn't deal with things then so here we are again. Do you think your husband is starting to emerge or not?
This is also the hardest thing I have gone through. It can be hard to not take the rejection personally,even knowing it is mostly their issue rather than much of antything to do with you.
Trusting,
I would like to think so but at the same time, I am afraid that he is not done yet and more than anything, I do want my H to be happy and healthy. I would hate to watch him be one of the ones that gets stuck.
To be honest, I had no idea what I was dealing with the first time, or until last fall this time. My wonderful teenage son is the one who suggested it. All I knew was that I felt like I was reliving the past and because of what that had done to my self esteem then, even with good years in between, I was more apt to believe his words that it was all me, nothing I could do was right and what not. Having spent many months reading and educating myself about MLC and depression, I know this is what it has been both times, and as much as I can understand it now, it also leaves me angry with him. Angry for the reactions in me that his words and actions had caused. Somewhere inside me, I knew I was a good mother and I bent over backwards trying to be the perfect wife but I never believed in myself after the first time. So when it all started again, well I just sort of sunk into my own pit. In a way, it was a good thing because I was forced to start my journey very quickly. It was the only way that I was going to survive and be able to breathe. I detached completely out of self preservation and anger, but it was necessary for me. I didn't care what he did or did not do unless it involved our child. I just wanted him to leave me alone. This actually made him angrier with me because I wouldn't fight with him anymore. Around the holidays we sort of called a truce and started speaking. Eventually, I have been able to do the DB stuff of being friendly, listening and validating. Since mid January, I have seen things changing in him. I have seen MY H underneath the garbage. I have heard the sorrow and the confusion in his words and seen it in his actions. I have realized he is not as happy as he thought he would be. But I have also seen the "alien" H as well. He did finally admit he doesn't want to move out, there is no one else, talking to women is how "it" starts, but he still does not want to be in R with me. I know he has seen my changes. I know he is uncertain if I still want him and why. He has been testing me. He has been wondering if my changes, which are more about taking care of myself and not feeling like I shouldn't are real. We are working on being friends. So something is happening with him. I just don't know what and I am not going to speculate.
Don't try to figure out what your H is doing. He will do what he is going to, he will test you, he will reach out to the children, then pull back. You will know when the changes are true changes. I can't really say how other than you will know. And remember, as horrible as it sounds, just because they come out of it is NO guarantee that they will want to be with you, or that you will want to be with them.
That is something I am working on in myself right now. I have healed so much. My self esteem is growing leaps and bounds. I know what I want and what I deserve out of a relationship. I have forgiven both him and myself. I am setting my boundaries of how I will be treated, who will be a part of MY life, how much I am willing to give. I will not live in dysfunction anymore and I know that. I don't know if H will be able live with those changes, the new me, and I don't know if he wants to. But in the meantime, I have lost almost 40 pounds and I have the body I had when we were teenagers. I have new clothes. I am learning how to be a woman again, not a mother, not a wife. My sexual responses have changed, and I am becoming the woman I was when we met, the woman I grew into as we grew up. I mother my son and my son only. I won't let H get away with trying to act like a child. What I do do for H, is only what I feel like doing, and he finally after 20 years is beginning to appreciate it and is recognizing how much I do do.
My best suggestion is to take care of yourself. Don't let this destroy you like it almost did to me. Work on learning about you and becoming what you want to be as if he will not be in the picture. That is what you will need to do if you are going to try to stand. It took me time to get to the place where I could say that I wanted to see what happens. And I have only admitted that to myself, my S, and God. The more you can do that, the less you will be concerned with what H is doing and the more clearly you will actually "see" what he is going through.
cat,
An excellent posting. I couldn't have said it better.
Snodderly,
Thank you. I have learned so much by reading your posts, I just love the Halloween story. Has anything more happened with Rip Van Winkle? I haven't been able to find anything more after your lunch with him.
Trusting,
I keep coming back to your thread in my head and I have felt there was more I wanted to say but couldn't figure it out until just now. I don't know if you have read Hearts Blessings Stages posts, someone resurrected it recently and Snodderly posted on there something that I wholeheartedly agree with. The stages were wonderful although the brain does not usually work quite in the way it was described as far as a step by step procedure. It is more like there is a lot of back and forth between the stages for a long long time. The time line is nice and wouldn't it be wonderful to look at the short end, but I think it is not that cut and dry, and I honestly think the MLC's in shorter duration are few and far between. Use them as a simple guide to keep you knowing that you are not going crazy. You will see things, things that look like forward progress, but then all of a sudden, they will go backwards. Actually, if you are healing and learning, you will do the same thing and boy it is frustrating. But you have kids so you know, you have to crawl before you can walk and walk before you run. And you fall down a whole lot in between. My S crawled then took his steps and never looked back, but most children I know, start to walk but then return to crawling because they are more secure in it, they get where they are going faster, and it isn't until their confidence is built up in their walking ability that they are able to do it all of the time and move on to the next step. It is the same thing with MLC.
Cat,
Thank you so much for your insights/advice - it has been so helpful! And I can't believe the timing of your last post - I don't believe in coincidences. I woke up this morning being so grateful for the positive changes I have seen but then so discouraged that it is one step forward two steps back. So seeing this post was a great encouragement to me. I have read those stages by Hearts Blessing. In fact, that was what really gave me a lot of insight into the situation a few weeks ago. I too think for most it is not that cut and dried and the time lines are all over the place.
I think my husband is/has bouncing between replay, withdrawal, and the depression for a few weeks now. The replay MAY be slowing up a bit which would be nice. That is the wackiest stuff. The fact that he hasn't been going through this as long as most seem to makes me wonder about the positive changes and, like you, I just want my husband to be whole and happy again. If he doesn't completely "finish" this it sounds like it may cause bigger problems down the line.
Again, I am going to try to be grateful for the positives and glimpses of my "old" H that are peeking through the fog and just keep focusing on me and the kids and trying to make our lives as balanced and happy as I can. This journey is h$ll but I am grateful for positive changes in me. We got married young and for the first time probably in our marriage I have finally learned in the past few months that I am NOT an extension of my husband, I am NOT responsible for his choices, and my self esteem is NOT dependent on him.
And I am glad I am finally moving from faking it to making it.:)
Trusting,
You are welcome. My first time on this board, which was less than a year ago, although it feels like eons, was very much for my healing. Use this place to vent, ask questions, listen, and learn.
You are right. I too do not believe in coincidences. I had not intended to post here anymore even though I have not stopped lurking. I met the people I was supposed to. I developed those relationships and taught and learned and became friends with the people that I needed for my journey, as well as their own. Some I still talk to, some I don't. But I never stopped lurking, checking in on some, reading archives. Something about your thread struck me, and I felt that I had to post to you. I know there will be more for me to say you as this plays out and I probably didn't get what I really wanted to share with you until this morning because it was being held until a time when YOU needed to hear it. I will keep checking in. Have faith in yourself and know that you have the strength to come through this.
I look forward to any further insight you have.:)
I will keep on going forward with the blinders on to the crazy behaviors/words and put my energy into making me better and making things as normal and good as possible for the kids.
I'm glad you have been lurking!
Hey Trusting,
Wanted to check in and see how you were doing, and noticed you haven't been on in the last day or so. I hope you are doing okay.
I had to laugh at what you said about the blinders. It is so true! I try very hard to keep the blinders on, but sometimes it gets the best of me.
There are times when living with my H and his confusing behavior really gets to me. At those times, I go and visit my mom who lives about 30 minutes away in the next town. It gives me a chance to regroup and gather more strength to come home and continue to live in this nightmare. I just got back this afternoon after being gone for five days. Tonight H came home from work,changed into shorts and casual shirt, grabbed a book, and left. I then start to wonder where in the world is he going to read. If he's going to OW, is she getting so boring that he needs to bring along a book?! LOL
Living with H makes it so easy to want to analyze everything. I really need those blinders tonight.
Just remember, The joy of the Lord is our STRENGTH.
Trusting ~
Just remembered something I wanted to tell you.
Whenever H goes out at night, I will not leave the front light on for him. I had a problem with that for a while. Should I turn it on like I would have before this all started, or keep it off. I felt that by turning it on, I was consenting to what he was doing. By leaving it off, I felt like I was sending him a message that I didn't accept what he was doing. Granted he may not have been with OW everytime, but I left it off anyway.
It may sound caddy, but I felt in this way I was showing respect for myself.
mlj - thanks for checking on me. I had actually taken my kids and gone on a little vacation last week while my H had been out of town. We had a GREAT time and it was nice to be away from home and able to go long stretches of time without thinking about everything. He did manage to call us at least once every day we were all out of town to check in and we actually had some really good conversations. I let the kids call him once but otherwise he initiated all phone calls.
I am struggling since we all got home from being out of town because of the whole confusion issue. A lot of the time now he "seems" so normal and reacting to me normally and then something strange comes up. Again, I am having to get back into the whole detaching thing and try to remember "baby steps."
I also am not sure if there is an OW in the picture. I don't have proof either way but my gut tells me that there may have been a "friendship" going on that has stopped or at least diminished greatly. Again, I am not so naive that I don't think that I could be way off here.
I just couldn't believe your second post the other day, though, about the porch lights. Seriously, that is a question that has been going through my head for awhile now - whether to leave the lights on - so it was eerie (in a good way though) that you wrote that! I can see the porch lights from my window and he turns them off when he comes in so I know when he gets in. I KNOW that is not detaching and that I should turn them off like you suggested but that has been hard for me to actually do. He has not been staying out much until crazy hours lately, though. I am almost always up when he comes in now. Maybe I should try it and see what happens. Interestingly, he almost always at least sticks his head in my (so hard for me not to say "our") bedroom to let me know he is in or get something or see if I am awake or whatever before heading downstairs, no matter what time
I am learning daily more and more how to make the joy of the Lord my strength.:)
Thanks for your posts~
I am having one of those why me, WTH happened to my wonderful husband, hard time detaching, don't feel like GAL kind of days.
Uggh.
We all have those days. They do eventually taper off and come less often. Just breathe and remember that this too shall pass.
Peace,
Dawn
It sure didn't help MY mood any when he came home for dinner (actually making it home for dinner is a positive, though)in one of his "moods," (again, where is my "normal", even keeled husband?). He ate with us but barely communicated and then went downstairs and shut the door. Nice. Still, at least I was able to be pleasant the little bit I addressed him at all.
Hi TrustinginFaith ~
I know how you feel.
On days like these, you need to remember the name you chose to post with.
((( hugs )))
MJ
Thanks for the reminder.:) I read a great devotional this morning from Rejoice Ministries but it hasn't yet soaked in - too many distractions! Some days are certainly easier than others. I should have known this would be one of those days when the past couple were good. I just tightened my seatbelt.:)
Hey TrustinginFaith,
I'm thinking that I'm going to refer to you as Faith. After all, that's what we all need.
I was happy to hear that you also subscribe to Rejoice Marriage Ministries. It has been one of my GODsends this past year.
I think what I've decided is to just keep the seatbelt fastened. Not too tight. Not to loose. Just fastened. It's too much of a bother to have to fiddle with it all the time! lol
MJ
Good point about the seatbelt.:) I have been playing this whole thing by ear (and prayer) as far as my actions/reactions. So far it has worked out okay. I have been doing DB, GAL, detatching, etc. but have to go with the flow somewhat as well. He left after dinner to go to the gym supposedly and isn't back yet but when he is in these teenage angst moods it is a relief if he isn't here. At least I feel way more detached this evening than I did earlier.
One thing that keeps amazing me is that at work, etc. I don't think anyone realizes anything is "wrong" with my H. How is it possible for someone who is acting so polar opposite of himself put up such a good act elsewhere for long periods of time? They may notice some subtle things but who knows. I also know from what I have gleaned that his new "friends" are quite a bit younger than him and I also can't help but wonder if they ever sit and think about why this "old" guy would want to hang out with them. It is craziness!
Faith ~
I understand what your saying about the craziness...
I've been hearing music that teenagers would be listening to coming out of the home office when he is in there. He currently is into Kelly Clarkson and he is 56 years old. What happened to the old classics he used to listen to?!
He also came home with contacts the other day when it never bothered him before to wear glasses. lol
I always picked out his clothes because he always said he had no knack for it. I wonder when the new clothes will start appearing?
MJ
Oh me too with the music! This is cracking me up. And the clothes were the first thing I noticed - H is definitely dressing 15 years younger than he is. He hasn't died his hair in awhile, though.
MLJ, have you heard of the hedge of thorns prayer? I just stumbled across it today and googled it. Interesting.
TF
Faith ~
Yes, I pray the Hedge of Thorns around my H daily.
I also pray for OW for someone to come into her life that is the right one for her. That is hard. But that is what I ve learned from Charlyne Steinkamp of Rejoice Marriage Ministries.
MJ
I need to do that, though I have been praying similar things. And not just about a potential OW but about other stupid things he might be doing. He is acting like an out of control teenager at times.
I am struggling this week, probably due to having been gone last week and not having all of this directly in my face and being able to forget about it for awhile. Just when I think his replay behavior seems to be better, he acts wackier again.
I sometimes wonder, too, if he had acted out more as a teenager if he would be doing this now, or at least not as badly. He was a "good boy" and maybe didn't get it out of his system then? Who knows.
I think in my H case, he set out prove to that he's still got it.
He's mid 50's, and somewhat over weight.
He has a high profile position in the town where we live.
I think that's what skank see's, since he used to be her boss.
Not to mention his money ( she recently got D ), his home, and his toys. Plus she cried on his shoulder through her D. He was ripe, he was weak, he fell. (sigh).
MJ
Sounds like you are right. My H is in his late 30s but has had self esteem issues which have always been there but he expressed a lot when he was still sharing with me (up until a few months ago and even then a bit) so I know any attention thrown his way would be lapped up (never mind the fact that I have given him so much positive myself, but I don't "count" anymore). However, now he sometimes struts around like his ego is inflated to 10x normal. Guess he is just trying to make himself feel better but I KNOW he is in turmoil though he may not appear to be so much outwardly. He tells me a lot that he doesn't sleep well and that he has a lot on his mind. No kidding!
Trusting,
You wonder about how they can be miserable but no one knows. The MLCer, whether we like it or not, is a master at hiding the truth. I don't mean outright lies, but I would bet if you thought about your H and what you know about him from the beginning, you will realize that there has always been that "alter ego" that gets presented to the world. That is part of why this throws us for such a loop at the beginning (middle, bomb, who knows when it is that we find out LOL). I have actually gone places with H since the bomb and he had a scowl on his face and refused to speak, until some acquaintance walks up and then the smile and light appear until that person walked away. They are just very good at it and I truly believe it is when they can't hide from those of us who really do know them so well, that the bomb is dropped. Because they don't know what else to do at that point.
The funny thing with OP in these situations, it is when they start to get to close to the MLCer that the R starts to fizzle. They don't know all that is underneath and that is why it is easier for the charade of happiness to be carried out. But none of that can be hidden forever.
I was reading today and I won't copy the whole post here but a very wise woman from this board explained that Satan leads them to think that D will make them happy. But they won't really be happy because they are still with themselves and their demons. Until they face those thing, happiness will always be an illusion. And WE CANNOT do it for them.
Keep working on yourself. You sound like you are doing ok. Yes, we all have down days, but they do come and go. Try not to focus on him so much or guage how every interaction with him is. Just focus on yourself and your kids. If your actions are consistent, he will notice and will become aware, even if you don't think he notices.
And no, they don't sleep well, and then they sleep out of sheer exhaustion. It all gets worse when they leave replay so use this time as training for you because when you truly love unconditionally, then depression and withdrawl stages are total killers because you still can't do anything and it is heartbreaking to watch. It will take more strength than you think you have on most days.
I hesitated to get religious because I try not to push my faith onto anyone, but since you brought up the Hedge of Thorns...Turn to God, He will guide you through this ordeal. As time passes, you will also come to realize that He is trying to teach you what you need to know and He is always there to support you. He will show you everything you need to know as the time is right and He will help you if you let him. The key is to give it to him and NOT take it back. Ask for his strength when you need it, His love for your H, His forgivness. He will also not give you any more than He knows you can handle. That I am more sure of than anything.
When this started, I began praying in a much more personal way than I had for a long long time. I knew I needed to heal things within myself, and as I hit one milestone, he showed me the next wound, until I finally had a strength in myself again which I have needed to get through these last many months. If it weren't for that, I would probably be D now simply because it was the "easy way out" and I had no energy to fight for anything. But that is not what was meant for me and H at the time. The healing time is what I needed. Since then, my faith has been so strengthened, and I have been led to learn lessons that I am so grateful for, lessons of patience, what true unconditional love is, compassion, joy and boundary setting. I have learned who I am by His grace. It was then that changes in H began to surface. But He will test your faith as well.
Stormie O'Martin has the a great book Power of a Praying Wife. I pray from that book every day. Now many of them are my own versions of her themes, but they still work. When I got it, I started at the beginning and went through a few at a time. Then I just opened the book to wherever it landed and it always seemed to pertain to what I wanted to pray for that day. Now, it is whatever pops into my head, as God shows me how to pray for H. And I always always ask God to wrap H is his love and my love while he sleeps.
I can't really talk about my current sitch as it just has to unfold in it's own way, but I can talk of the past some. There will be good days and there will be bad ones. For you both. There will be days you just want to call it quits. You are still focusing on what H is doing although it may not be as much as before. You have to let it go for your own sake. Don't let the teenager bother you. I know it is hard, but you can do it. Don't worry about how long he is gone, where he is, what he is doing. Hard but not impossible. Just observe.
HB once said--you have to be willing to lose it all in order to gain. That is the truth.
Cat,
I was practically in tears when I read your post because once again, I am reading something that speaks to EXACTLY what I have been thinking about/needing to think about this week. I think I said in an earlier post that I don't believe in coincidences.
You are right about the alter ego thing. It is kind of hard at this point to sort out what is "normal" and the way things were before all this started and what is craziness. H has always acted differently at work, a different persona, more gregarious, etc. than he truly is when left to himself. He is by nature NOT an outgoing person. I have a feeling, though, that that his gregariousness at this point may be exaggerated with others in order to win their approval, whatever.
I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that one of the "lessons" I am supposed to be learning through all of this and maybe a big reason why it is in my life is to learn about prayer and to finally have my faith moved from the back burner where it has been for awhile to the most important thing right now. Fortunately, I have been seeking God continuously as it has given me the peace and strength I need to do this thing. I don't know what I would do without it! I never before considered myself a "strong" person but I am happy to say I have proven myself (and others, I think, including H) wrong. It is hard, though, to see a man whose faith has been a part of his life up until recently discount it and turn from it, but maybe that is something God is also working on that I can't see. But it certainly would be hard for him to justify his decisions/actions in line with what he knows to be true, which I still believe deep down under all this garbage he does.
I felt like I was quite detached but then realized that you are right, I am still spending way too much energy worrying about him and his actions and trying to analyze everything he says/does and the times I do that are the times I get down. The times I don't I am more at peace/happier. I am happy to have had days lately where I have felt actual JOY - who knew.:) I think I have successfully "dropped the rope," at least almost 100%, so that I know no matter what happens I will be okay. I do still feel that God is asking me to stand. I think I can finally say that I am "willing to lose it all in order to gain." I know I will gain for myself no matter what.
I am right now trying to sort out with myself boundaries. I have kind of been going with the flow but at times do feel like a doormat. I am trying to decide what boundaries need to be set. Any advice on how to go about doing that?
I gather through one post you wrote that your H is at home? (I know you don't want to post much about your sitch). That does make certain aspects challenging, like detaching and not being as concerned with where he is because I KNOW when he is out. However, I do consider it a blessing because at least he is here and the kids are getting contact with him.
Thanks for all your insight!:)
Just journaling/venting now - the further I detach and the more I realize that this is not all personally directed at me, I am able to know that as horrible as all the lies and deceit are that are directed my way, it is liberating to know that he also has to be lying to others and not just me.
A couple of weeks ago I almost laughed out loud and actually had to bite my tongue hard when I heard him getting after D5 because he thought she wasn't telling him the truth about something. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black! (the one "positive" in that case is he was actually acting like a "real" father then, something slowly coming back out of him after he decided he didn't really want those responsibilities a few months ago).
I FINALLY feel like I am truly detaching. It has been a process but for the most part now I really don't care where he is/what he is doing and am able to leave the room to go be by myself when he is home without the urge to be in the same room as him, etc. Of course, there are times the worry/fear/panic start to surface but I am much more easily able to push the negatives aside and think about something else. He is slowly losing room in my head. At this point he still has room in my heart (or the "old" him, anyway) but I just am not particularly interested in this person who doesn't treat me the way I deserve.
I have also "dropped the rope." Of course I do still want my M to work out and that is what I am working toward but I know that whatever happens I WILL be okay.
It is nice having that sense of peace and yes even joy again.
Trusting,
It is so funny how you have said my posts seem to come at the right time. I am beginning to think they come at the right time for the both of us. Either as a reminder for me, or as in the last one, a sign of what is to come. In my head, I know what must happen, sometimes I choose to resist. I want to share with you that my last step in detachment has finally hit. I was finally strong enough to be shown "the light" so to speak and for the first time in my entire M, I feel like I have finally been willing to lose it all. Not out of anger or self preservation, just simply out of love. Love for myself, H, and S. Mostly myself.
This has been coming in baby steps, hence the "bad days", for a very long time. It started with the detachment from anger and self preservation, to a feeling of "you won't do this to me anymore" but still falling back into the trap when baited, to a desire to not want to detatch, to truly believing I didn't care and being able to say it. In May, it got a little different and it was--I have always done abc for you but I can't do that anymore, if you choose to deal with it, I hope you don't get hurt--to this final, finishing point. Throughout this process for me, I have gotten stronger with each step (my H was/is very emotionally abusive and I was VERY weak after all of these years). And that new strength has led to more steps. I have known and been urged internally for about 5 weeks to take this last one, and I fought it at every turn. Until I was with no question of a doubt shown that if I keep on without the final step, I would keep living where I was, the cycle would repeat and repeat and repeat. For 5 days, I was urged to do something, to look at something, and I said no, to the point when my S brought it up, I screamed at him. I did not understand this exactly, I just wanted to avoid it. Then I could take it no more. I opened my eyes. I saw what I needed to see. I confronted H matter of factly, told him what I needed to without allowing him to get to me again (at least on the outside). Of course, he has a temper tantrum, threatened for the first time, to bring me papers, to which I replied, go ahead if that is what you want to do.
I don't know where that came from because it wasn't me. I fully expect to hear it at least one more time. It took him threatening to move out twice with no reaction from me either time before he stopped that threat.
I know your H is still at home. Please be careful. Because we see them everyday, it is so easy to fall from our safe place. We want to see everything as forward movement, and much of it is, but the truth is that the forward movement is so slooow and there are so many steps backwards in the process. And it hurts everytime it happens. Also having them at home keeps us the target, even though it is not really even conscious. If you asked my H, he would say yes I did that but she should not have been hurt by it, or something to that effect, or he wouldn't even remember doing or saying it. They say they are done with us, it doesn't matter what we do, etc... and they really may feel that way, but because you are there day in and day out, they still put it all on you. It also keeps us from moving forward as quickly as we should. They do notice the little detachments, and they find other ways to try to get back in. My H has told me for months and months that he wants us to be friends and has tried to show me friend stuff on and off. He may truly want to be friends, we haven't been in a long time. But I have not felt that was his real intention or desire. I have felt that it was his way of wanting to keep me in his life on his terms and if he treats all of his friends the way he has treated me, I don't think I want to be his friend.
So my weekend has been a very emotional one, because I have finally truly dropped the rope and I have no intention of picking it back up. If my H wants friendship, he will have to offer true friendship, until then I will be civil. My fears have subsided, fears that if I didn't make him dinner he would think I don't love him, fears that if I didn't have the coffee pot ready he would think I hate him. Those sorts of things. I was still in the mode of trying to be as normal as possible because he is living here, but that has stopped. My desire to be that way because of fears has stopped. Do I feel bad that he has to go to work without fresh coffee? Sure but he knows how to set up the pot just as much as I do. Do I feel bad that he is hungry and I haven't cooked yet? Sure but he knows how to use the oven. In four days he has already tried to punish me with the silent treatment, tried to weasle back in with the cute little boy words, and tried to upset me with anger. None of it has effected me. So we will see what comes next. I have finally given it all to God. I know all that I said to him came from God because it was not my words or thoughts on the subject exactly. My behaviors have not been my own. I wish I could have done this sooner, but I was not ready to lose all and now I am. I knew it was the key for me, but I hadn't made the final break until last week.
I am sharing this all with you because I want you to be able to see, especially when the next hard day comes, that you are doing this as best you can and although you may not be where others are, or you may not be moving as quickly as you or others think you should, you can get there. First you have to know it in your head and the day will come when you know it in your heart. That is when the real changing comes. For me, it is still not time to end my marriage. I was afraid that when I got to this point that it would mean I would feel like I had to get a divorce. But I don't feel that way at all. I may feel that way someday but not now. Keep moving forward and see what unfolds. That is my plan.
Cat-
Sounds like you have had a lot to deal with in the past few days! I pray for strength for you as you drop the rope and make progress for yourself. It sounds like yours has been a long, long journey and I admire your patience and perseverance.
You had mentioned the book the Power of a Praying Wife which I have and have used in the past but quit in the past few months since I certaily didn't feel much like a wife anymore (bad reason, I know). Anyway, I picked it up again - couldn't ignore how many times this comes up as a recommended book - a few days ago and did as you suggested I have just been opening it up and praying wherever it landed. This morning it was his trials, and the first paragraph said "You alone know the depth of the burden my husband carries. . . . I have not come to minimize what You are doing in his life, for I know You work great things in the midst of trials. Nor am I trying to protect him from waht he must face. I only want to support him so that he will get through this battle as the winner."
So appropriate.:)
I'm new to this board and don't know all the lingo, so please be patient with me. I'm in a similar situation although I went through this before with H. when we were married for 7 years and had our first child. Situation is a little different now in that I have learned to react to it differently although I am still panicking inside. I believe H's MLC is caused now by our financial problems (filed Bankruptcy 3 years ago) and his dissappointments with his career.
He moved into the spare bedroom about a month ago. He is quiet and withdrawn at home and almost seems angry at times. He calls in sick at work more then ever before which was almost never. He says he is not happy, board with life, wants to run away. He claims there is no OW, and I have to admit I was snooping around to find evidence, but so far nothing. He is almost always home when he is not working. But he has lots of friends through work that he texts all the time so I never really know who he is talking to.
I'm pretty sure he is severely depressed and he will not seek treatment because he is going to school to be a police officer and is afraid it will affect his chances for employment in that field.
I've been trying to give him space, reading DBing books and not asking any questions. It is heart breaking though to be cut out of his life. He says none of this is my fault, yet he wants to be separated from me all the time. The last time he went through this it lasted at least 2 years, but I feel part of that was my fault because I was younger and a new mom and I begged, pleaded, cried all the time which I know drove him further away.
He still asks for sex, which confuses me since it was his choice to move into the other room. At first I said no because I did not want to be used, but then I gave in, yet it really hasn't helped at all. I thought it might bring us closer.
Our 21st anniversary is coming up in August and I'm not sure if I should acknowledge it or not. I can't find anything in the posts regarding this so if anyone has experience with this issue, please let me know.
It is such relief to know I am not the only person going through this because it sure feels like it.
M 43
H 45
Married 21 years
D 14
D 7
Last MLC 14 years ago...here I am again.
2nd time around-
It is so hard. I will agree with that. At least you learned how to react differently this time, I somehow missed that lesson for a while. I am sorry you are here, well I'm sorry we are all here, but it really is a good place to be. The sex issue, well I have struggled with that one. I have done it and been told afterward that we shouldn't have (although I was not the one who started it). Although some will disagree, if you can do it without allowing it to destroy you, then do it. If it is too difficult, then don't. They still want the connection but they don't know why. When they come to you for that, for that instant they have let their guard down, but then they are even more confused and it goes back up. He may not ask again for a while. And you may be ok with it for now but not down the road. That is ok.
I acknowledged our anniversary this year. Nothing big, just a small trinket and a note but I did not expect him to say anything and he didn't. Other than thank you. Which was actually quite fine because I was pretty sure it was going to bring a barrage of insults. But there were no ILY in it, just appreciation and recognition of the day.
Trusting,
I just love that prayer and it comes up for me and my H a lot. Also, remember to ask Him to change you, to show you what you need to do. I think that is the first chapter. I always start with that one. You are still a wife in God's eyes. Thank you for your prayers, yes it was a difficult weekend, but I feel like the weight is finally off of my shoulders. It is almost like one stone at a time was removed and this was the last one. Yes my journey has been long. Sadly it has been long even prior to the MLC monster rearing it's ugly head but there is not one second of it that I would trade. I am grateful, finally grateful, for every single thing that has happened in my life. The good, the bad, the ugly and there has been plenty of all of it. Without it, I would have no relationship with God, of that I am certain. Wow, to see myself write that I am grateful for all of it, no one would believe that came out of my mouth, but it came from my heart to the keyboard. Just amazing. Sorry for the sidetrack.
Hi 2nd time around. Sorry that you find yourself here. I haven't been on that long but it has been a good place to be to read advice and seek your own and especially to know other people are going through similar things.
You might want to try posting on a separate thread so that people can follow you - might get "lost" in this one.
It does sound like your H is depressed. Mine is not acting particularly depressed most of the time though I am sure there is an element of it thrown in the mix so I don't know what advice to offer there.
As far as your upcoming anniversary goes, we just had ours last month and it was pretty rough. We didn't acknowledge it really other than to wish each other a happy anniversary but my H spent most of the day out and was clearly very upset and apologized more than once for putting me through this (I just wanted to say then DON'T). Maybe just play it by ear - it is still a few weeks off.
The other advice I can give is what so many have said to me and others and is the best advice there is under the circumstances - take care of yourself and your kids. Make sure you are eating, sleeping, exercising, etc. as best you can. Plan fun things to do with the kids. For me, prayer has been my biggest source of comfort, peace, and strength.
Hang in there and know you have support here. Keep us posted.:)
2nd time -
I meant to add in my most and Cat said basically what I was going to about the sex thing. I know that people would differ in advice and it is still something I am struggling with myself. Do I or don't I? Up until now I have "allowed" it because it is a connection and I do want to maintain any connection I can. But now I am waffling a bit about that and whether I should set up a boundary there. I guess you kinda have to do what seems right for you.
Cat -
I can't say that I necessarily yet feel "grateful" all the time for this situation but I am with you - it has made my relationship with God stronger than it has ever been which I am SURE is at least part of the reason why this is happening. Hopefully my H will come through it with a strengthening of his faith, too.
It was good to hear a reminder about how I am still a wife in God's eyes and will carry on. I know I pray a LOT that my actions/reactions/words will be the right ones because this is something that is so changeable.
It's great that you feel a burden has been lifted. Must mean it was the right thing to do!:)
Thank you both Trusting and Cat. Your kind words give me comfort. I have to admit I have lost some of my faith having had to deal with another round of MLC from the same man. I do pray and ask for strength to get me through this. I used to pray for H to come back around but felt maybe that was not the right approach and now I just ask for strength and peace in my life however that should look. Thanks again, this is a wonderful community to come to for advice and support.
M 43
H 45
Married 21 years
D 14
D 7
Last MLC 14 years ago...here I am again.
Just keep posting to vent/get support/etc. I think a turning point for me was when I stopped praying for my H to "change his mind" and started praying to put the whole situation in God's hands, whatever the outcome, and that God would work on his heart because ultimately that is the most important thing.
2nd-I don't know if you read previous posts but I too, and trusting although I don't think hers was as bad, are on round two and that alone can and does bring resentment. Snodderly posts about that. She has very good information.
When I pray I too pray for strength, patience, insight, understanding, and love. I pray for H to heal. I do pray for the M if that is His will but mostly I just pray for H to heal because if he doesn't I have a pretty good idea where he will end up. Also because I see and hear his pain. Although I do not ever want to go through this again and I do want my marriage, I accept a few things. It is not something I can control although I do have control over me and whether I choose to stand and wait or leave and start over. I accept that he may never heal. But no matter the outcome for us, I pray that he does because I love him and more than I want him, I want him to be healthy and whole. I want him to be who he wants to be and not what he has become through this whole thing.
Hey Faith ~
Stopping by to see how you were doing.
I can really relate to what you said you gained through this. I too have gained a close relationship with GOD. I believe sometimes you are put into these situations so HE can show you who should be #1 in your life. In my case, I had my H and then the marriage. Through the circumstance, HE gives you a gentle nudge and guides you onto the right path. With HIM in the lead of course!
As you may remember, I'm in Georgia on vacation for three weeks. I am having such an awesome and PEACEFUL time. Just to be away, and not having to be in the middle of the nightmare for a while has been incredible for my PMA!
MJ
Hi Cat - Hope things are going well for you. You sound like you are such a strong, faithful woman. What an inspiration!:)
MLJ- I did remember you were on vacation. Glad to hear it has been going well! You need that peace and rest from the whole situation.
I have been doing well most of the time. Last night, though, I had a major meltdown. Fortunately, it was not in front of H but after he went to bed. I was upset a bit earlier and walked out of the room he was in and into my bedroom. He actually followed me in to see what was wrong and asked if "things were getting to" me. I am not sure the point of the way it was phrased. He did not ask it in the snide or sarcastic way he did a few weeks ago, actually what I would call kindly, but I am still not sure if he is still looking for chinks in my armor or what. Anyway, to him I just chalked it up to PMS.
Meanwhile, I just was so upset last night being beyond fed up with the selfish behavior. I am upset at his parents for screwing him up so much that he would act like this. I know deep down even during this psycho time he knows he has issues with his childhood but rather than trying to fix anything he seems hell bent on repeating the cycle in his own kids. I am doing my best to protect and negate that but unless he comes out of this with improvement he will have done permanent damage.
HopefullY I was able to get it out of my system last night - haven't cried like that for a long time. Right after Exodus 14:14 came across my path “The LORD will fight for you; you need only to be still.”
Here I felt like I was doing so good at detaching and had a pretty good week . . . wonder why I got slammed out of the blue like that last night?
Trusting,
Yes he does know he has issues with his childhood even during this psycho time. I think especially during this time is a better way to describe it. I can completly understand your anger at his parents, I too have anger at my H's parents. Much much much anger and I know that they are the underlying reason for all of this. That doesn't make it much easier really. In fact I've spent much of the last month or so just plain angry in general that I am being punished for their mistakes. Our S is being punished for their mistakes. And that makes me want to spit nails. Do your best to insulate your kids. Talk to them and let them talk to you. I don't remember how old they are, mine is a teenager and is the one who told me MLC, I was just to unable to see through the fog, so I know he understands. But his feelings are just as deeply hurt as if he didn't understand. But he does come up with some pretty interesting comments and insights. He was calling my H a turtle, now, since he has been learning to drive, he says H is moving at idle speed, especially since there has been basically a standstill occuring. He still has a lot of faith that things will change and just tries to help me keep my PMA. Funny thing is I"m actually fine when H is not around. When it gets close to the time he comes home from work, even though most days are peaceful anymore, I start to get tense, and that is when I begin to pray. The strength comes and I survive. Everyday.
Thank you for your post, I was beginning to feel like I was the only one who had those angry feelings toward the parents. I haven't seen anyone else post about that in anything I've read. And I read your other thread. They do have moments of clarity, unfortunately, when the realize it, or when they know that we see them, they run right back into the tunnel. My H was peeking his head out quite a bit for a while. But then he just couldn't deal with what he was seeing and stuck his head right back in the sand. Has been there, for the most part, for about two months now. The time is getting shorter between H and alien, but I don't know. The way he ran right back into the tunnel, with such force, makes me wonder if he will be able to process or if he is just going to stay stuck.
Read what you can about MLC and depression. It helps when you can understand it. I doesn't change the pain, but it helps you process and it helps to keep the armor in tact. Yes they do look for chinks in the armor. I don't think they do it intentionally, but they know us just as well as we know them so they start pushing the buttons they know about. When they think that doesn't work anymore, they do look for different buttons. It all seems so cruel and it is. But it really isn't intentional.
I try with the faith. So hard. But I have witnessed too many miracles, true miracles, in my life to not believe.
Cat, I am glad someone else understands what I feel about my in-laws! The anger towards them is something I have been trying to work through but frankly am too tired right now - just trying to keep my kids protected as much as possible and trying to daily forgive/keep the anger down towards my H so they may have to be put on the back burner for a bit anyway. I have always been the one to keep them posted and send pics of the kids but haven't for a long time. I just don't have it in me right now. The thing is, I really don't think they have a CLUE about what is going on with our family right now.
I have known my husband has carried hurts from his childhood for about as long as I have known him but never expected them to eventually play out in this way! It makes sense, though, with what I know he is hurt about. He is trying to find that validation he has always looked for.
It has been nice to see glimpses of the man I know (and still believe is in there somewhere) but then he disappears for awhile which is SO hard. His "unpredictability" has become predictable though. I know that after he spends extended time with the family or peeks out his head he WILL "run" for at least a couple days where he is around as little as possible and is shut down.
It is interesting that your son is the one who cried MLC. I'm sure it is helpful for him to know what is going on and be able to understand that. My kids are younger and just know things aren't the same right now.
I try to keep the faith. I haven't personally witnessed what I would call "miracles" in my life up until now and am still waiting for my "big" miracle but lately have seen way too many "little" miracles to consider them coincidences which helps keep me going.:) It confirms that no matter what happens, God is listening.
T-
You can't deal with everything at once so putting that on the back burner is a good idea. Don't feel bad about not sending pictures or anything. I too was the one who kept up all of the contact. When I stopped doing that, it was truly a blessing in disguise for me. I always knew that I had issues with MIL and FIL because of how they were while H was growing up and I never paid FIL much mind to begin with, I let H handle him. But I did try to welcome MIL into our lives. That was my mistake. I should have let H handle her completly as well and now I do. He handles her very little but he still won't face what his issues are. I have prepared a letter to her, in the event of D, that I have every intention of sending her. I have witnessed so much and I have every right to let her know just what she has done. I will not share it with her if H and I remain together, but I still will not take a proactive stance in that relationship anymore and H is very aware of that. It just is not good for me.
Yes it is nice to see them pop out. That the person you know is still there somewhere. Just be as patient as you can and protect your heart. Read about the touch and go's versus real reconnection. It is important to be able to see the differences. Yes I too have learned to be able to predict the "unpredictibility".
Your patience will be tested and your faith will grow. This becomes our journey as well.
Cat, I so badly want to tell his parents all of his issues and hangups but I am quiet for now. I want to tell them about how he is acting now but know that the only reason I would be doing that is for retribution of sorts so I am quiet on that as well.
Where can I find info about the touch and go versus the reconnection? I feel like a yo-yo sometimes. Most of the day I am able to maintain a positive attitude but I have to admit the further in the day it gets the harder it is. Uggh.
My patience is certainly being tested.:)
Yes staying quiet is good. Many years ago my H and I got into a physical fight that was very very bad. The only one ever. He told his father about it and his father actually called his mother. Get this-he was wondering what THEY did to make H so angry. And she didn't know either. Well, I was not there for his childhood, just his late adolesence and early adulthood and I could have shared a list about 3 miles long with him but I figured if he hadn't figured it out in 27 years he never would. LOL. That was during his last bout with this monster and I think it was a trigger to snap him out of it prematurly because he was so afraid of his temper. So see anger is present through the entire thing as well, just usually not as bad as during the anger phase.
Retribution, yes. I would love to tell her, especially as I have spent twenty years listening to her pity parties about what a horrible mother she was and her guilt, to watch her not change one single iota to be different. But being quiet is important. Especially to your M. That is why I wrote the letter. It helped me deal with my feelings, a release of sorts, but like I said, I will not send it unless there is no reason not to.
Go to the MLC archives and look for thread titled TMAK Explanation of Reconnection. It is a wonderful place to start. I do not know if the link is in the thread titled MLC Resource List or not. I unfortunately have no luck linking things or even in the search window so I have to do everything the long way.
Yes I understand about PMA also. As you get more tired it becomes harder to maintain.
I wanted to share that I have found it helpful to read the whole threads, not just the post that applies to the pretinent question. Often much more info is found as others are chiming in.
Sounds like you have had quite a lot of stuff to deal with over the years!! So the MLC is icing on the cake.
I read the threat on reconnection and unfortunately his normalcy at times has to be touch and go. He was so nice and normal a lot last week and the past couple of days the alien has reared it's ugly head. Big time. I am hoping the fact that we DO see the touch and go means that eventually he will reconnect.
I am just having a hard time today. Definitely not as detched as normal and having a hard time not hating H right now. I never did like roller coaster rides - they make me sick.
Guess I need to refocus and get myself out of this funk!
T-
If I shared my old posts, which I won't do, you would probably drop dead from two things--1. Shock at the changes in me and 2. Disbelief at my life and how anyone would still want to save a M. Sometimes I think about it and ask myself if I am totally nuts.
Been through a lot is an understatement, but what has always helped me is that with the exception of MLC/depressive times, H has always been there with me. I can't say I wouldn't have experienced similar difficulties and trials if I had married someone else. Good always comes from the bad. Plus, even if I am not always given details of a situation or the outcome, I have, for my whole life known what was coming and that the end result would be ok. I have never received a phone call, since I was a child, with the news of someone's death, without knowing as the phone rings who was on the other end and what they were going to share. I just have a sort of sixth sense about things. It gets clouded if I am too emotionally involved but...
The touch and go's are hard and they definately test our strength. I too am trying to look at the touch and go's that way. In some ways it is easier when they just ignore you. But they have to maintain that little connection. I personally have wondered if living at home makes this last longer for them. But I refuse to do anything right now to alter the situation in that respect so...
Let yourself feel your emotions. Take them here to vent, take them to God, just don't take them to H. You will know if and when you can share your feelings with him, but now is not the time.
Have a good day.
Cat,
Well, you sure sound like an incredibly strong person and it is a great testimony to see you sticking things out. I agree with you - good comes from bad - beauty from ashes.
Interesting about the sixth sense thing!:)
I am definitely seeing a lot of the depression in my H lately. I thought it was just him trying to avoid us but I think now maybe it is because he is withdrawing/depressed. Last night he actually shared a lot of his fears/insecurities, etc. with me again which he hasn't for awhile. I tried to just do the validating thing, not offering advice, etc. And he HAS noticed the changes in me - mentioned how he sees I can "exist" (I think that is the word he used - something like that) without him. I am not sure what he thought about that - but I know I think it is a great thing that I have gotten to this point!
I just DO NOT understand (and I know the wisdom on this board would say to not even try - it won't make sense) how he can come in and pour out his heart and become very emotional telling me these things and then go back to the way he has been with withdrawing, avoiding, not letting me in at all in pretty much every other way. I guess it is par for the course. I am glad he did come and talk to me and tell me things I am sure he is not telling anyone else, even though honestly I was tearing up because it is so hard for me to see him like that and know I can't do anything to help but let him work it out.
Such is the life of living with MLC, I guess. The good news is I felt great today, very detached, and had lots of fun out with the kids!
You know, I have wondered if that is part of the problem as well. My strength slowly disappeared as this thing started and was gone by the time of bomb 2. It has returned though, most days anyway.
I think last night was a trial for everyone. My H too did some very out of the blue stuff. Talking about his mother, I did not get upset, I did not say I told you so, I just said oh and a few other inocuous things. Then he came and layed down on his side of our bed. He hasn't done that since September. It was all very strange and very trying for me. But nice.
Do your best to follow the advice here. If you read enough where you actually understand the MLC monster, and then you do your best to stop the wondering, you will be surprised what realizations that you come to. I have, in the last few months, been able to see some of the conversations that I did have with H's family members and others who knew him before me, that I was being shown some of the underlying things then that I had never known before. At the time, I was just surprised that it took these people 18 years to share the info and why didn't they before. I recently have seen the actual beginning of this and what H's actual issue with me in this whole thing is. Never would have realized this stuff if I had been analyzing him and his actions the whole time. Plus, if you believe in the Law of Attraction and that we are all energy, the more you think about it, the more energy you give to the situation. As much as I want to understand, I also do NOT want to know more than I need to. That means not trying to figure out what is going on in H's head. That means not caring about what he does when he is not here.
One more thing to keep in mind, I have heard this many times but it is hard to believe unless you live it, they won't remember a lot of the conversations you have. I was sharing with H yesterday on the way to the store about my night sweats (I've been having then for a few years). He asked me AGAIN why am I having night sweats. Well, as this is the third thing this week alone that he totally has no clue about, I just asked him jokingly, "where have you been for the last year?" I am going through perimenopause. I have been for a few years but it was not confirmed until last summer by the doctor. I was 36 at that point. His comment "you seem awfully young for that". DUH....And we have talked about it over these last many months more than once. I believe that I have been shown again his forgetfulness as a reminder to cut him a little slack.
Please remember to keep your expectations at zero. He could be shifting from one stage to the next, but he can go backwards at any point as well. That hurts. And remember, even though you want your M, them coming through this does not mean your M will survive. I hate to say that to anyone, but it is something I need to remind myself of a lot.
Glad you enjoyed your kids yesterday. They can be a saving grace through the whole thing. You are doing good even though you may not feel like you are.
Well, I think I blew it. I had a bad day being frustrated with everything and just couldn't help myself and brought up things with my H that I probably should not have. Of course, any little thing I said I was "putting pressure" on him and "putting him on the spot." I had a hard time not rolling my eyes at times. So I think this was a major set back. We ended up having a longer conversation than we have had in a long time about a number of different things but now I wonder if he is even further "gone" in many ways than I had originally thought. I should have just shut up I guess. Ugggh. I guess we will have to see what tomorrow holds now. I am exhausted but hope I can sleep!
T-
It is ok. We all have our days. Sometimes, just once in a while, we have to let it out and even though it might seem bad right now, it doesn't have to be. Just like he has his feelings and they are what he is feeling, you also have your feelings and he has to be able to accept that. Several months ago, H and I had a similar conversation and I too got the "pressure" line. He is still here for what that is worth. Sometimes they actually have to show you what they feel is pressure and what isn't. I still haven't figured it out because it seems to change daily but it has made it a little easier. I also had to share with him that I was sharing with him and any pressure he was feeling was HIS and not from me. It was how he chose to interperate what I was saying or doing. I can say that because I have basically been treating him like a stranger but always letting him know he is welcome to participate in whatever S and I or even I am doing. And accepting whatever choice he makes.
Yes a few weeks ago we had a blow up, but it was a necessary one to hopefully stop cycling on both of our parts. I have detached further and after a week of total silence on both parts, we are both now speaking again. All I know right now is that we are still living in limbo.
It is ok though. You are so new at this to be doing so well. I noticed you seem to be posting in the middle of the night lately. Do your best to try to sleep and take care of yourself right now. Exhaustion and lack of nourishment will take it's toll harder than any of this because your body is fighting to survive at the same time your soul is. Keep going. Today is a new day and you may just be surprised what it will bring.
I don't know - I am still thinking maybe I should have kept my mouth shut. He did ask what was wrong - that I seemed "bothered" last night and kept pressing (surprised he even noticed!). I did tell him a couple of times it was NOT pressure I was putting on him.
The hard part was his insinuations again that I hadn't heard for weeks about how he is trying to distance himself from me. He didn't bring up the D word though. Has never officially used that, though I am sure it is running through his mind. I KNOW everyone says to not believe anything they say but it is still hard not to be hurt that he seems to so easily toss away an 18 yr relationship that has been good for all but the last few months when he went MLC on me.
Other things he said seemed kind of convoluted and there were a couple of instances where he something he said contradicted something else he said. I guess that would be an indication of the fog.
I tried to tell him in a VERY roundabout way (w/o actually saying it)that he may think leaving everything and starting over will solve his problems but that they WILL follow him unless he works out his issues. I know he needs to figure all this out on his own.
It is so hard to keep the faith. Some days I feel too tired to try. There are certain connections he doesn't seem willing to break, though, so I guess taht is a good sign? Maybe?
Hey TF
Tough day, but you have to let it go. As often as we tell each other to back off, there are going to be backslides....we expect it. They suck adn you just deal and keep moving forward.
Ok, let me try to break this down. I understand it now, but have a hard time explaining it....so bear with me.
Don't believe anything they say, right? Here's why....pretend I'm showing you the inside of his head as he's saying this.
"I am trying to distance myself from you....I don't want to be in this relationship." Inside his head, he can say this with no or little damage because he believes he may be lying....he's not sure. He MAY want out, but he may want to come back, if his "new life" isn't all that great. Now because HE understands he may be back, there some weirdness about them that makes him think you don't believe him either, you sort of know he might be lying.....so that makes it's ok to say this crappy crap.
Does that make any sense?
So why does he say it? Well, he says it because he THINKS he may want out...he's not sure, so he needs to tell you this just in case his "new great life" does work out....saying this to you now is insurance just in case he is happy without you, he can say "Look, I warned you, I told you from the beginning I was leaving.....blah blah blah."
Does this help....???? In his mind this is easy to say because in his mind he HAS NOT thrown away 18 years.....he's only thinking about it.
Do you get me? It's hard to explain....I hope I helped.
I tried to tell him in a VERY roundabout way (w/o actually saying it)that he may think leaving everything and starting over will solve his problems but that they WILL follow him unless he works out his issues. I know he needs to figure all this out on his own.
Stop doing this. I speak from experience. For example, my H's OW would contact me, lie to me, tell me blah blah blah. I knew she was lying. Then later it would be black and white proof she was a little lying actress scumb bag....I would point it out to him, and it was clear as day, how could he not believe me? How could he still think the world of her? This is solid black and white proof!!! Was H crazy?
Well, there are two reasons I couldn't tell him anything. One, I couldn't tell him anything. I was the last person who could convince him or talk to him. The LAST person on earth as a matter of fact. And then, she was perfect and wonderful and no one could tell him crap about her, even his good friends who also tried. But in the end, I was right and he told me. As a matter of fact in their last conversation he told her she was a liar and something else quite colorful. But the moral of the story....he had to get there on his own.
You have to let go and let him.
Almost,
Thanks so much for the advice! You're right - I just need to let go and let him figure it out for himself. It is really painful to see the turmoil in him, though. Glad I am not having to deal with that myself! I really don't know how he can cope at all.
And your explanation of what is going on in his mind made LOTS of sense. I think you are absolutely right. He THINKS that is what he wants (he guesses) but wants to be in control and be able to decide whatever he thinks he wants. He knows me well and knows I won't be the one to bail on him (so maybe that isn't such a good thing?:).
He told me four months ago he wanted out. He is still here, living in the house though not sleeping in our room. He told me initially he just hadn't had time to find some place to live. He has had plenty of time lately. Money is an issue but where there is a will there is a way. That tells me something. I think.:)
Thanks for your good advice!:)
I just want to say how glad I am I found this board and people who know what I am going through!
He told me four months ago he wanted out. He is still here, living in the house though not sleeping in our room. He told me initially he just hadn't had time to find some place to live. He has had plenty of time lately. Money is an issue but where there is a will there is a way. That tells me something. I think.:)
Script....to the tee
T-
I agree with Almost. Don't try to tell him anything about what he is going through. I too know from experience that it will backfire in your face quicker than anything.
But you really have to let yourself off of the hook for the backslide. Just start from now and go back to what you were doing. We have all been there.
He told me four months ago he wanted out. He is still here, living in the house though not sleeping in our room. He told me initially he just hadn't had time to find some place to live. He has had plenty of time lately. Money is an issue but where there is a will there is a way. That tells me something. I think.:)
Script....to the tee
Yep, yep, yep. Have you read the "MLC for Dummies" rant that is posted somewhere on this site, T? This exact sort of thing is in there.
Peace,
Dawn
So who wrote this crazy script anyway? And then started handing it out to people and telling them to memorize and follow it?:) It is easier to stomach the days when I am detached enough to just be amused by the craziness rather than hurt by it.
Thanks for the link, Dawn!:)
Backslide over - moving on.:) Fortunately, it didn't backfire the way I thought it was going to. He has been relatively normal since then. That was unexpected. But I can't complain!
So who wrote this crazy script anyway? And then started handing it out to people and telling them to memorize and follow it?:)
Well...some would say that credit goes to the devil. I do have to say that it sounds like Lucifer's work.
It is easier to stomach the days when I am detached enough to just be amused by the craziness rather than hurt by it.
Thanks for the link, Dawn!:)
You're welcome...I can always use a refresher course myself. And that's what detachment is all about, IMO. You can step back and look at it as being like a movie or something, and not get caught up in it too much. Like it's a soap opera that has nothing to do with you. Break out the popcorn and the Milk Duds, it's time to sit back and watch the MLC Show!
Peace,
Dawn
I would have to agree with you there on who wrote the script!
I find myself more and more detached but the minute I start trying to get into his head or try to guess what is going on I get sucked back in. I would rather just pop the popcorn and grab the milk duds!:)
This board has been my beacon some days for sure....just knowing the friends you have here....invaluable.
Yes, stay the course that you set for YOU. He'll get on board.
The fact he has not left is great. Say NOTHING else about him leaving. He brings it up again, have a list of logical reasons why he should stay, including finances, the impact on the rest of the family, etc. Have non-romantic reasons for him to stay and be very matter of fact about it. That way the pressure is off of him to leave incase he really doesn't want to and he probably doesn't since he hasn't alreay. But just in case.....have that conversation ready.
It is great he hasn't left. Do everything you can to keep it that way.
What are some things you are doing? What's your DB game plan?
I am doing my best to keep him here, mostly by not doing/saying anything about it. I never bring it up (and he really doesn't either anymore, at least not for awhile). I am trying to give him absolutely as much space as I can at home so he doesn't feel the need to leave. He is out quite a bit (gym, whatever) but I have noticed he is home more these days, at least some days, than he had been really for months.
In some ways I think it is hard to DB while he is here (like I cannot possibly look my best all the time:)), but here are some of the things I am doing:
1. Try to be in a different room if possible.
2. Don't talk too much to him.
3. Am almost always friendly and upbeat around him (and fake if I have to).
4. He sometimes does/sometimes doesn't volunteer where he is going when he goes out and I don't ask or ask when he will be home, etc. (He does almost always at least tell me he is leaving now so that is a plus).
5. I try to never call him when he is out for any reason. I would in the event of an emergency but otherwise he does live here so pretty much anything can wait.
6. I try not to make any comments that may sound like "mothering" (i.e, suggesting something if he is looking for something to eat, etc.).
7. When he is in his "cave" I don't disturb unless I absolutely have to.
I have seen some baby steps but then of course there are steps back. Still, trying to concentrate on the positives. He does seem to be reconnecting with the kids a lot more than he had been, baby baby baby steps in that direction with me, more interest in the house, etc.
He is still deep in MLC though for sure. But maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. Trying to stay positive!:) My game plan will remain the same for now though I do adjust a bit as I go. And of course there are the occasional back slides . . .
I also have a list of I guess you can call them "goals" of things that when I see will be good steps. Sloooowly I am seeing some things and am keeping track. None are being done consistently yet by any stretch but they are good signs IMO. Still, I know I can't focus on that and just keep doing what I am doing and knowing that anything could happen.
Hi there,
not sure if you read my thread...it's sort of everywhere.
Long story short....we had problems. I didn't realize how serious they were until he wanted to separate. Then I learn about the EA. EA is now over, H just told me last night he wants to come home but needs some time to figure out how to do the U-turn back home.
So, my advice, wait this out. Let him do whatever it is he needs to do with your boundaries in place. Live your life as if you KNOW he's going to snap out of this, because chances are, he will.
You can do this. You already are!
Quick question - any advice on discussing finances with an MLCer who has the typical spending habits? He needs to be reminded the kids need to eat! Any suggestions?
Always,
Just read through your thread. It sounds like you have had a lot of positives. Thanks for the advice/confirmation to just wait it out. That really is about all I can do I guess. I'm just trying to keep my mouth shut as much as possible when I should and just keep doing what I am doing. I do think he will come out of it eventually. The question is how long . . .
Yes.
Can you set up a once a week business meeting? It best done face to face, but otherwise, email works too. Lay it all out, what money goes where and when. Also use that time for who's picking up who for what event and from where to go home or the next place etc. And most importantly, if you can and trust the MLCer, ask them to organize the money and bills.
That's what worked for me. There was damage done to a credit card, but not our accounts and I consider myself very very lucky there.
In my case, I still organized the bills, but he got to see where all the money was going all the time. I even had him pay the bills, online. So we were in it together and he could see that.
Well, I don't really consider myself to be reconciling at this point. I'm still ready for whatever could come next because I have learned, you just don't know and there could be anything around the corner.
My H left home to move in with a friend in late November. He has his own place now and says he still needs a couple of months to figure things out. So it's was 8 months before my H said he wanted to come home. But honestly at this point, if he said I want to come home NOW, I would say no. We still have a lot to figure out, work out and do. As a couple and as individuals. So not out of the woods yet, but things have been good to great. He's making an effort and making decisions with me in mind.
What are some of the things you are seeing out of your H in terms of "whacky behavior"?
T-
The bills. I tried what Almost is suggesting and it worked for a while. My H's crazy spending has been more responsible than most, Thank God for small favors, but it is hard to talk to them about it. And often, they don't seem to remember later. My H knows what the bills are but doesn't care too much what happens to the other money. At least he didn't. Now he understands that it is important for me to have a cushion, and we finally have one in the account. He isn't spending much but he does choose not to say much to me about his small purchases anymore although they add up. I was advised to separate the finances and protect myself, but that was something I haven't done. I don't know if I'm being stupid but I felt like I had to give him trust SOMEWHERE and he hasn't run us into the poor house yet. LOL.
What did seem to help was telling him how much I needed each week, for gas, spending, and food. Then we agreed on how much he could take each week. The rest other than bills is left alone unless we discuss it. Seems to be working the best. We also have a ledger that all deposits and withdrawls get kept track of (his idea). We both know how much is there and what is being spent and where. We each have our "allowance" which isn't really much and basically what we do with that money is up to each of us.
You mentioned how long? Do your best not to focus on that. If you do, it can get really depressing. We were out last night and saw MIL for second time in almost 2 years. H was downright shocked that it had been that long. So that tells me he has no idea how long this has all been going on. You just find your strength everyday and move forward. And remember, even though you want him home, you really want him to finish this as hard as it is to watch and live through. Because you do NOT want him to recycle again down the road.
I agree. I was prepared to do this for as long as it took. Then there were days I wanted to quit. I have two very good friends who know both of us, me and H and they were the ones who lit the candles for me, when it was really really dark and told me not to quit.
But another DBer here has a friend who was the one who went through the crisis and it lasted for years. She said that thinking back to that time, it's very foggy and she's not really sure where the time went and what she was doing then.....sort of like living in a dream.
That's why the GALing part of this is so important. Let's say things didn't work out....in the end if you are out there, doing your thing, GALing, you won't look back and say "Man, I wasted all that time" because you didn't. And if it does work out, all the better.
But there is no time frame, everyone is different.
Thanks Cat and Almost for your advice on the financial stuff. I am going to come up with a game plan.
I have to say, this hasn't been a good week. The roller coaster is getting to me, the ups and then way downs, the dance we are constantly doing. This is when I start thinking that in a lot of ways it would be easier to stop spinning my wheels and move on and be able to find someone who will treat me the way I deserve and be a man for the kids. Uggh. Yet I know right now that is not the right thing for me to do.
So yesterday I was on my knees asking for a reason to keep going. A couple minutes later H walked in to where I was sitting trying to regroup and carried on a normal conversation with me, giving me a little ray of hope for the future. I don't know. I think I need to spend more time on my knees before I
lose focus on what I am doing here.
I do believe that he will come out of it eventually, whenever that is, but the waiting game stinks. And my poor kids . . .
You are welcome about the financial stuff.
It is ok to go up and down a little. And yes, we all entertain the thought about what would just be "easier". In some ways it would be easier to just start over. Sticking this out, especially with no guarantees of anything, requires you to look at yourself, change yourself in ways you probably never dreamed, and have more patience than most people. Time on your knees is good. The right answers will come for you when you spend time that way. No one can tell you what choice to make, even God, but if you ask, he will show you your choices and you will be able to make your decision from there. And your decision could change down the road. But He is asking you to make a choice.
After the bomb, first I was told to heal, then I was told to make my home, then I was shown that I had to make a choice. The choice actually took me a long time. Once I had, then I was told that I knew what my choice was and it was time to Let Go, and Let God. Well, I thought I had done that, I had but I kept taking it back. I have finally let go completly and am trusting Him to resolve this as He sees fit. So you are being challenged now, but once you choose, things will become easier.
It is just so HARD. I know what is "right" and what I need to do right now but I really don't like feeling so unimportant to someone who was so wonderful for so many years. We really did have a good marriage (of course some things could have been better - as in almost all cases but nothing major) and he treated me so well. Now . . . this is certainly a lesson and growing time for me but I wish I could just take a break for awhile.
I am trying so hard to let go and let God. For the most part I am doing well but for some reason feel a bit "thrown" this week.
Because you are going to...up and down, up and down.....blah, it sucks.
But here's another way to think about things....let's say you quit. No more of his crap. Do you really know for sure the next guy is going to be better? What if he's worse?
This is my new favorite quote:
New love is the brightest, and long love is the greatest, but revived love is the tenderest thing known on earth.
Thomas Hardy
You are going to go up and down and you are going to have to do your best to not react. I reacted today to some stupid crap and my H just recently said he'd like to come home in a couple of months.....we both have things to work on, but I want to come home.
Words we all want to hear right? Absolutely, but it all takes a long time and it seems very long to us.
But you can do it.
Question....what are his MLC symptoms? Any OW or crazy spending? Partying more?
That quote is making me tear up! What an awesome quote. If I can stick it out and he comes out of it, I can see how things could be much better even than they were before EVENTUALLY - having him change as well for the better through all of this crap. I know I have. I am WAAAY more patient with everyone especially the kids, I finally have my priorities right, I have learned to be very independent, my faith is stronger than ever, etc. I can also tell it will take a very long time to be able to trust him again, even if/when he does come out of it.
His MLC symptoms - the spending (boatloads of new clothes), friends who are much younger (tho I am not sure how much they have been hanging out lately - seems less), dressing half his age, dying his hair (but he has stopped that - maybe a good sign? - it was so strange to me because he had always said he liked his little bit of gray - it made him feel distinguished), doesn't want to tell me anything (I guess the MLC control issue), the SELFISH behavior, etc. I don't think there is an OW at this point but of course I am not so stupid that I don't realize I could be wrong, especially as far as a possible EA or inappropriate "friendship" goes. I really don't think a PA though.
Fortunately for me, though, he has not become mean to the point he is yelling, calling me names, being mean to the kids (other than neglect), etc. Just the huge mean of being willing to turn his back on his family because he needs a new life. Whatever.
Day by day, I guess. If you can get them to go, does a C help someone in MLC or not? Do they just have to get to the point where they realize they need to "fix" themselves? He is def not ready for a C yet.
Do NOT push C if he's not willing.
My H refused. Still refuses. HOWEVER, I did gt him to agree to the Mort Fertel program as a compromise.....he still complains about doing it, but he's doing it. He's putting into practice what we have learned. I basically told him as he was going to his lawyer, I will contest this divorce on the grounds we sought no professional counseling. He went to his lawyer with that. His lawyer, I'm sure, told him what mine told me: The judge will ask "Are there children in this marriage? Yes? Oh then absolutley, go seek therapy. See you in six months." So he agreed to it. He says his lawyer did not tell him that, but I have my doubts. He said he wanted to try it to say for sure he did everything....whatever.
But he's doing it. It's sincere and it's helping. A lot.
My H's symptoms:
EA that evolved to a few kisses here and there, maybe more, not going to there. Not going to ask.
Selfish beyond selfish. "I have to do what I have to do to make me happy now....S will understand." OK, good one.
Partying with much younger co-workers. One of them asked me "Who's June Cleaver? What's 'The Fonz' mean?" Yes, I laughed. Said it was a kind of knife and the Fonz was a sex thing.
Exercised like a mad man. He does look really good though.
Bought some snazzy suits. I even went with him for this particular party. So at least I got to pick them.
Did not go crazy with the accounts, but did get a little bit crazy with one credit card as he had to be Big Man on Campus a few nights out.
I think this all started about the time his Celica died and he had to have an Acura. "I have an image to keep up....." Seriously?
But, knock on wood, things have really turned. One of the triggers for his fog lifting....I stopped caring, as far as he could tell. I started to really plan my life without him. He hates to be alone, so that was a real kick in the face....how dare me do that? But it helped a lot.
You can rock this out. Keep going forward.
I won't push C at all. It just came up the other day and I asked him if he thought it might help. Apparently not.
I had to laugh (but in the "this is so sad" way) - my H said the exact same thing about the needing to do what he needs to make him happy and also that he didn't want the responsibility of the family (this coming from the guy who has always been very responsible). He even told me he was selfish now and had to be. Scary.
And I also forgot the working out thing. He started that about 8-9 months ago and lost some weight and also actually looks pretty good, really the best since I have known him. He stopped going much at all for a couple of months and tried to fill the void in his life with junk food and the weight started packing back on so he has started back again and is losing a bit again.
I do see very, very small signs of the fog MAYBE starting to lift a bit but it is hard to imagine a lot of days that he may actually come out of this. It is good to hear there is hope!
I also had to laugh at the June Cleaver and Fonz thing - good answers.:)
That quote is making me tear up! What an awesome quote. If I can stick it out and he comes out of it, I can see how things could be much better even than they were before EVENTUALLY - having him change as well for the better through all of this crap. I know I have. I am WAAAY more patient with everyone especially the kids, I finally have my priorities right, I have learned to be very independent, my faith is stronger than ever, etc. I can also tell it will take a very long time to be able to trust him again, even if/when he does come out of it.
His MLC symptoms - the spending (boatloads of new clothes), friends who are much younger (tho I am not sure how much they have been hanging out lately - seems less), dressing half his age, dying his hair (but he has stopped that - maybe a good sign? - it was so strange to me because he had always said he liked his little bit of gray - it made him feel distinguished), doesn't want to tell me anything (I guess the MLC control issue), the SELFISH behavior, etc. I don't think there is an OW at this point but of course I am not so stupid that I don't realize I could be wrong, especially as far as a possible EA or inappropriate "friendship" goes. I really don't think a PA though.
Fortunately for me, though, he has not become mean to the point he is yelling, calling me names, being mean to the kids (other than neglect), etc. Just the huge mean of being willing to turn his back on his family because he needs a new life. Whatever.
Day by day, I guess. If you can get them to go, does a C help someone in MLC or not? Do they just have to get to the point where they realize they need to "fix" themselves? He is def not ready for a C yet.
Trusting,
Not sure I've posted to you before, and not sure if you want to hear what I have to say....
IF, and I mean IF this is MLC, this is a long road girl. There will be times when you want to say screw it and move on.
There are NO guarantees in this, none that he will ever come out of the fog.
This will be the hardest thing you will ever face, and will test you to the limits.
If you want to save this, and are willing to put the work in. Then there are some incredible people here that can point you in the right direction.
You must first be willing to do the work on you, regardless of what he is doing.
There are things you will hear that will make you cringe when you hear them ....over and over.
First thing is to read the MLC resources, and truly understand what is happening right now, then let it go for now, and look inward for the answers that you may never get. After some time, the answers are less important, and the questions change.
This time needs to be about YOU....Bottom line.
Take the Focus off of what he is doing and look to you.
Take some time and read some of the Archives too.....
Whether or not this is MLC isn't really important right now, don't try to figure it out. You will only drive yourself insane doing that. No two are the same, so someone else's path need not apply to you directly....
Please, do what YOU need to do for now.....
Things will happen in time, and you will either know...or it won't matter as much to know.....
Take care.......M1
Hey Trusting,
Mach1 doesn't have a thread here, but he's surviving MLC right now. He is pretty well versed on this.
I am not sure how many ledges I've bumped up against that he has talked me down from.
I'm in that angry stage. My H finally says the words I want to hear and I feel relief but oddly enough or maybe not so odd, I did hit that angry place. I'm angry about the crap he put me through, I'm angry my marriage feels a little less special because he let someone else run around in it.....and sometimes I think it's worse that this OW turned out to be the piece of crap I always said she was....lots and lots of irony here for me. I finally hear the words I want to come home and I want to haul back and kick him in the jewels.
But at the same time I know I'm not done yet....not by a long shot. I expect we'll be at this stage for a long time yet, and it scares the crap out of me, but we could fall back away from martial progress.
But yes, brace yourself. The one thing I would do again.... I would work even harder to detach even sooner than I was able to. It took my mother's fortune teller and my mother's "life is only complicated if you think too much" approach to logic to get me to really detach and really do for me and my S.
AND of course, THAT's when I saw true true interest in my H related to us.
Go figure.
T-
I have read so me of what Mach1 has posted around here and he does make a lot of sense. Someone posted about the script earlier--we all share it. I too got the "maybe I need to be selfish right now" from my ultra super responsible H. I also have heard the word done more times than I can count. At first it hurt. Now I just keep wondering if he is trying to remind me or himself? I understand the definition but I guess he must not. LOL
Detatching and working on yourself is the best medicine. It is the ONLY thing that MIGHT make any difference because I would bet that you don't think about YOU and what you want or need too much, now or before. You are mom and wife and caregiver. But what feeds your soul? What frustrates you, how do you react to things? When was the last time you filled the tub with bubbles, lit candles, put on the radio, and put up the do not disturb sign? Not super easy with small kids but possible. Do not worry about what H might think about what you are doing. He will probably get angry or annoyed at first, why are you acting this way, did you meet someone, etc...But it is because you are doing something different. He will get used to it.
Right now you still need to read about MLC. I wish I could link, because I would give you Happy Again's threads to read. He was a man who was in MLC and posted here a couple years ago. Boy was he and angry man, but it really opened my eyes more than anything to see what was in his head. Also, Yellowrose is an excellent example of a recycling H and a surviving, thriving W. Just a real inspiration.
I would like to share with you and Almost, the anger will come and go, even if you detatch. What seems like a hundred years ago now but was only a few months, I too heard I was thinking it may be possible to work this out but then I felt angry again so I was wrong, and that made me very angry again. I have wondered what does he have to be angry about as I am the one who has really been hurt here, then I had to remind myself that I am the source of everything wrong in his life right now. But the anger sometimes comes still, sometimes for no real reason that I can find, and I know it is still me processing all of it. I also see that most MLCer's refuse counseling, compared to WAS. It too is part of the script. They are fine, they are right, they don't need counseling. Sometimes, later, they will get it, but sometimes not. But if you think C will help you deal with this get it. Be as open with H as you feel you can or want to be, but also DON'T explain yourself or your actions to him. Let him wonder. When you were dating, he did not know every phone call you made, everything you purchased at the store, what you did every second of the day. Look back at that time and see who you were then. Yes you are more mature now. You have kids now so your interests may be different. OR they may just be dormant because you are too busy to even notice things are missing. I was a music freak. Then because of S and Winnie the Pooh, I missed almost a whole decade or what was on the radio. Didn't even realize it. Pretty cool for me now too because I am finding I like the same stuff S does. Find YOU. I know this sucks, we all do, which is why this board is so good because you realize you are not alone. But you have been given an opportunity here if you choose to see it. It isn't just about marking time until H wakes up. It is about living your life and if he decides to rejoin the ride, he will have to catch up.
Hey Girls,
You know, although there is an unwritten script for them, there is one for us too...well, not THAT unwritten, cause some of it is.
This is the time for you, and whatever you are feeling, YOU have to own that, and deal with that for yourself. You cannot bottle that up and NOT deal with it.
Anger? You have to process that, and you will have that on many levels throughout this process. It is actually a healthy thing to have on your side. Us it as a shield. Use it to protect yourself and deflect all of the BS that gets spewed at you. Now is not the time to use it as a sword....it can do you NO good by doing that ( Almost, listen up there ).
That shield will become your best friend for some time. Later, when you feel you need the sword, you will realize that the it has turned into a nail file and is less harmful. That is because you processed that anger and turned it into something good for you instead of harmful to your relationship.
I see a common theme here the past couple weeks...and it is ANGER....
Anger can hurt you and your chances faster than anything else right now....it has to be processed.
Write a letter, release it in writing....DO NOT send it to your spouse, but write it out, and email it to a friend, mail it to your dog, spray paint it on your neighbor's van....something. But get it out....
Keep enough to shield your self and throw the rest away....
And please....( Almost ).....use the 48 hour rule.....
Interaction out of anger is harmful to you....
Don't let an anger filled tirade turn into a regret
LOL
No way!
I'm mad he's getting it right then and there!
Almost--one more thought, actually spurred on by Mach1, the 48 hour rule is perfect. When I feel the anger now, I have actually told my H, just give me some space, which he just can't seem to understand. Once, I gave in and ignored MY needs, which just led to a difficult weekend for me. Now, I don't tell him. I just get very quiet or do things on my own. He doesn't understand. I get funny looks, comments about my jaw being broken, then I just smile and say something very stupid which usually lightens my mood enough to be nice. Living in the same house, I do not have the ability to keep PMA or acting as if up all of the time. But I do my best. Often, my anger, frustration, or plain old bad mood, really has nothing to do with him or our sitch, and I used to just spew at whoever was in the area, regardless of what they may or may not have contributed to my mood. Being quiet until I can say nothing or say clearly and kindly what I need to say seems to work for ME. Don't know how H takes it. I don't think he believes it is a real change, especially since he has caused me to react once or twice still, but even those instances, I have realized quickly what I was doing and stopped myself. So as it continues, maybe he will realize that that has changed in me, I also do not tolerate it from him anymore, and that too has thrown him for a loop several times. But I LIKE the change in me. I am much calmer and happier and all of my anger goes away much quicker than it used to. So what H thinks about it really doesn't matter all that much in the long run.
So Mach, thank you for reminding us to process it. That is extremly important.
Cat....
I'm right at about two years with a live-in. I understand....
One of the things I have learned in that is....
We cannot be all show all the time, but one of the best things we can do is to process things differently than we used to.
It is the combination of the good energy and the bad energy..
I have found that it is Okay to be down, but how I handle that makes the difference....
Now ? I just smile and say that yes there is something bothering me, NO, I'm not ready to talk about it yet, but when I am, you will be the first to know....
Then go about my business until I am ready.....
I collect my thoughts, channel what is relavant to me, then open up instead of holding it in....
Funny how sometimes, things look different a good nights sleep later....
Don't be a doormat...just choose your battles wisely....
Nope not doormat here. That was the old me. A doormat who just often got shook out by the wrong, sometimes right, person and covered them in the crap. LOL. Processing now instead of stuffing. But I do find I actually have a lot less to say after processing.
Yes depending on which bomb you look at, bomb 1-i'll try but i don't know (with no real effort) or bomb 2-done, I am at either 1 or 2 years myself. Actually about 3.5 since the onset of actual MLC. In the home is much harder but I do my best not to walk on egg shells anymore. Most days are easy now but once in a while....
So-Trusting, see you are more at the beginning. But we all have done it and so can you. It does get easier.
The problem for me and the 48 hour rule.....I think it has to do with my true lack of patience! LOL!
I have been better about the blow ups because of all of my friends here. If I didn't find my way here, there would be odd patches of grass in my back yard!
LOL
Cat, Mach, and Almost,
Thanks for all the great posts today! You have really given me a lot to think about and what I keep hearing is detach, detach, DETACH! I am learning. Every day gets a bit easier. Some days I feel good. Other days not so much. I don't cry very much anymore but those days I am more focused on him are the days that are not as good.
I think for me right now the anger (which has dimished from a few days ago for sure) is way better than the despair I felt at the beginning of all of this. I am not letting my anger direct himself at him (at least outwardly) and the 48 hour rule seems like a good rule.:) As long as I don't let it consume me, I think it is an okay thing and something I need to process.
I know I have already made good changes for me that I plan on being permanent. Seems like I will have a lot of time to perfect them through this crap. And while yes it is NOT about him he has noticed and has even told me so a couple of times. I am also taking better care of myself than I have for years - pre kids probably. I lost 20 pounds on the MLC diet. ortunately the weight loss has stopped and I need to put a few pounds back on but I am hoping to do it right. I am also pampering myself more than I have in forever. Goodness knows I need it!
It is not fun to hear over and over about how long this takes if they ever do come through but I am also amazed at how much time has already passed that I have survived. It has been four months since "the bomb" but looking back, I now see little ways that he has subtley shown his struggles outwardly which I can date back to at least 8-9 months. I know the inner turmoil (besides the childhood stuff) has been bothering him for literally years, probably since his minor QLC about 9 years ago so it is hard to say when he "started" the MLC.
The thing is, he has been pretty friendly lately and even a bit considerate of me once in awhile. What a nice change that has been! Again, trying not to focus on it because then when the "bad" continues it makes it harder when I have seen the good.
I am prepared to wait it out, at least that is where I am now.
here's some motivation for the 48 hour rule.....
If you don't utilize it, I PROMISE you will regret. I would get heated and I would lay into H. He would fight back...later he'd be pissed, I would be upset and wonder why I couldn't just keep my mouth shut? Was I ever going to learn?
And that's what the 48 hour rule is about, saving you from regret. If 48 hours later you still want to talk to him about whatever it is, then go for it, because you've thought it out, you aren't hot any more and that's always better.
I think the 48 hour rule is great - the fire in the anger usually does dissipate making it easier to have a rational discussion.:)
Okay, so I was having a harder time at the beginning of the week and then doing better and now ??? The "problem" is that he is acting so much more normal the past few days in some ways, particularly in his interactions with me. He speaking like the H I know (and love). This makes it so much harder for me to detach! Last night he could tell something was up with me (because he came into my room, not because I was acting it in front of him, other than a little comment I made, should have kept my mouth shut). He was trying to pry out of me what was wrong and said, "you can tell me stuff, you know." No, I really didn't know. He sure hasn't acted much like he has cared about me or my "stuff" for months now, even before "the bomb." Anyway, I did give him a very vague answer but I am NOT going to tell him "stuff" that bothers me, unless maybe it is something to do with the kids that I feel like he should know. But nothing to do with him.
Good with the yuck, I guess. It is heartening when he acts like he cares.
Well keep track of these things in a journal. Also keep track of what you were doing that way you can go back and see what worked and what didn't.
It's good he's starting to show signs of caring. BUT I want to give you a heads up, my H would "care" and show signs the man I love was still in there, then he would pull back in a big way and go back to the weirdo jerk I couldn't stand. So if that happens here, do NOT be discouraged. I think the reaction the pull back is "What the he!!? Why did I act like cared? OMG??? Do I still care?? Holy crap!! No, I don't care and I'll show her!!!" That's what I always imagined went through his head once I finally caught on to what was happening, the pattern that many of our fellow veteran DBers warned me about.
So, like my coach said, enjoy the positive interaction, but you can't act sad or upset if/when he pulls back. Just maintain the cool calm sexy you and let him figure it out.
LOL - Almost, it sounds like you have a good handle on what goes on in their heads. I have felt like I can actually SEE that same thought process going through my H's head after he has done something/said something that I might construe as him caring. And yes, then comes the pull back.
I am trying to do just as your coach says - enjoy the positive but not let it affect me when the pull back happens. It is getting easier and easier.
I have been keeping a journal - both good and bad things so I can try to figure out what works or doesn't or see patterns. BUT I am also trying not to focus too much on all that stuff and just be.
Almost, that was an excellent analogy.
Your H is not the only one who has done that. My H will be very nice, considerate, and then I open up and suddenly, bam, he is feeling "pressure". No you asked, duh.......... So yes Trusting, please be careful. They make us feel guilty for not telling them, not seeming to trust them, but when we do open ourselves, it is usually a mistake. Eventually we will probably be able to share with them. I keep a journal myself that I think maybe someday H will see. If you can find your center, you will know exactly what and when to share with him. Then sad part is, I think they do care, they just aren't sure if they want to. Of course you also have to realize that being that close to someone scares them. Because if they know you that well, then you know them that well and they don't want people to see that far into them right now. Probably have always been a little like that.
It is always a learning process. Pay attention to what YOU are doing more than what he is doing. How are YOU reacting to him? Is it the same as in the past, if so can you change it? Is it different? If so, what are the consequences? Do they seem to make a difference? Do they make YOU feel ok about you still? You, we, may change because of THEM, but we can't change FOR them. We have to change for ourselves. Of course, we don't want to make ourselves a bigger monster in their eyes, but if you aren't comfortable with a change, say it leaves you feeling like a doormat even though H seems to like it, then it isn't the right change. Also, I know you are still at the beginning, but work on YOU. Why did you behave the way you did? Even though we may not like to see it, SOME of their complaints about us are legitimate. Someone else here said that they are working on childhood issues (or avoiding them), but we have to work on ours as well. Looking back over 20 years with my H, I have seen who I was and how I was and what it was between us that brought us together. I have also seen how I have changed when my S came along, how I grew but also how I ignored my own stuff and how it manifested in my behavior. Having dealt with that stuff now, I am more like I was when we met. Except more mature. LOL. I also see how I have almost always walked on eggshells with H. I think part of the reason we get the blame and become LBS is because they see what is really wrong long before we do, they just don't know how to change it. I think then fear takes over and bam. One of the most telling things my H said to me was "I don't want to keep doing this to you and you doing this to me and I don't know how to change it because I keep doing it". Yes he actually took the blame on himself, but he saw that if we kept going like we were, NOTHING would change because we would keep treating each other the way we were. No we didn't have a horrible marriage, but there were definately times when there was distance between us, where we were not as close as we could have been, where we just were not clicking and it hurt. It hurt us both. Unfortunately, the MLC monster stepped in during one of those times and here we are. But I'm good with me now and that is important.
Cat, thanks again for the advice and reminders. I really don't tell him much of anything that is at all deeply personal anymore, even if he pressures (though it is nice to have him ask and act like he cares because it has been months since he seemed to care much at all). I really don't trust him at this point - when I feel like it is "safe" I will start to open up. Something you said really struck me - about how they don't want anyone to see too far into them right now (and he has, like you then said, ALWAYS been that way to some extent, except he felt comfortable telling me). The stuff he tells me when he does open up is pretty deep and it doesn't happen too much. It isn't pretty stuff for sure.
I have used the past few months to make positive changes to me. At least that is one good thing that has come from all of this!:) I know I am coming through it a better, stronger, more centered person whose priorities are finally straight. I am hoping his journey leaves him the same way but that is his journey not mine.
I think I saw in another post of yours that you think your H is pretty well done with the replay, or at least that is what it seems? I know you are a spiritual person. Can I ask, was/is your H as well? I see that as a major factor in my H's situation.
Okay, so someone remind me why I am sticking around and putting up with the crap? Uggh. Having a hard time with my PMA this weekend.
Just venting - I'm sure I'll feel better tomorrow.
Vent away. Did something happen or just the normal tunnel ride?
Yes the replay seems to have dwindled to about zero but I know it could flare up at any point. So I am waiting on pins and needles. To be honest I don't know which is easier, angry, nutty, H or depressed, mopey H. I don't really like either but during real replay at least he had energy to do stuff. But he is ok. I am ok, well better than ok. Replay made me want to bail a lot more than this does.
Was/is my H a spiritual person? I really don't know. I know that doesn't sound exactly appropriate for a 20 year marriage LOL but.... I have always been very spiritual, had much faith in the Lord, my visions, dreams, and knowings, believing that they come from God and the angels. I have trusted them to guide me through my life, steering me from evil, showing me what was coming (even when I didn't like it), and basically always being there. I have witnessed true miracles, and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that death is not the end, just a way for us to travel into another existence. That is a story that I simply cannot share here because I can be easily identified by it as everyone who knows me knows that story. So when H and I met at 17, I was already very convicted in my beliefs. I have strayed and ignored the messages at some points and that has led me astray in ways that I hate to think about now, but I learned from those experiences so there was good in them. I have not been a "bible thumper" but that is because I, and H too, have questioned the teachings of organized religions. Not because of a lack of faith, but because of a lack of faith in the humans running the churches. H has not had the same experiences that I have that have so rooted my faith. He does believe to an extent, but another difference is that I was raised in a family that attended Church and believed. He was raised by a mother who wants to have faith, but does not. His father thought it was not real. H had one grandmother who had great faith, although she was not really very involved in his life to influence him after about age 10. The grandparents that were involved, they had Bibles, but that was it. It was not something that was really addressed in his house. I do not like to judge anyone's walk but I think it was more of a belief because you are suppossed to versus a belief because you know it is real. I hope that makes sense.
So to answer your question, H believes in something. I know he believes that I believe. He has, over the years, developed a confidence in my dreams and visions, simply because too many of them have come true for him to ignore. I don't know if he believes they come from God and the Angels, but he believes they come from somewhere. He believes in spirits to a degree, but he has not had any personal experience. He has told me that he has talked to God during this but nothing changed with what he was asking for. Funny because I had been asking for the same thing with the same results at the time. It was a process we each had to go through (related to MIL). It is all in God's perfect time that things happen and it wasn't time for that at that point. For me, it has finally occured and I find that to be wonderful and very freeing. I don't think it has happened with H. I think it may be beginning to happen but I don't know. If he comes to the same conclusions that I have regarding it, it is depressing to a degree. And I can see how it would be much more so for H. So his walk is not my walk. It may become stronger. I pray for that simply because of the peace and strength that can come from it. I have walked from God because of circumstances and I know where it leads. If I had not turned around and walked back, I know I would be D now. I was weak and I would not have had the strength to endure all of this on my own. Now I know I can endure anything with Him.
I think you said your H was sprirtual and that has left him. Don't discount God. He can get through to them. It is just difficult sometimes. I think to find true faith, we all go through a period of questioning sometimes. I also think when all of the stuff from the past rears it's ugly head, it is hard to change it all quickly. Over the last several years, my H has so reminded me of how he was when we met. He has talked about wanting to go back to when things were simpler (we were teenagers then). There were times when I actually said I didn't want two children because he was behaving EXACTLY like our pre-teen (at the time) son. Unfortunately, it took me a long time to really figure out what I was looking at. And a longer period of researching MLC to really believe it. Funny, the other day, H actually asked S how old he is now. He didn't know and S couldn't believe it. But that is par for the MLC course. The fog is shifting around, I am hearing "I don't know" in answer to almost everything and I really think he doesn't know what answer he wants to give. It's ok. H will get through this, I will get through this, I hope we get through it intact but we will be ok no matter what the outcome.
You and your H will get through it as well. It takes so much time. Time, growing, periods of testing of everything. Remember the old saying "out with the old and in with the new", that is what it is. Sometimes it is just hard to see the forest through the trees.
Wow, am I glad I stumbled upon this thread. SOOOO much of what trusting and Cat posted is so true of my situation too.
The alien at home. The spending. The moods. The anger. The emotional abuse. The rare windows of clarity when I took the chance to listen and validate. Then back to anger again"You have destroyed my life"!Awful to me, inconsistent with the kids. Or plain not there for any of us. Oh, and Mr Nice Guy once he steps outside the front door.
Yes, and he`s living at home too-me in the master bedroom him in the guestroom.
I think of this as a sickness-not just MLC anymore. Should I abandon him just because he`s sick? Or would he come to his senses if I threw him out? I don`t know.
I`ve made a LOT of progress since I started the DB journey. Loving detachment has been the very best thing for me. I`m also improving in so many ways and my life is filled with lots of happiness.
Still, the pain is there all the time.The fear that this will never work out.And the worry that I am making the right decisions for me and the children in all of this.
Can`t do that quote thing but Cat, you said:
"You wonder about how they can be miserable but no one knows. The MLCer, whether we like it or not, is a master at hiding the truth. I don't mean outright lies, but I would bet if you thought about your H and what you know about him from the beginning, you will realize that there has always been that "alter ego" that gets presented to the world. That is part of why this throws us for such a loop at the beginning (middle, bomb, who knows when it is that we find out LOL). I have actually gone places with H since the bomb and he had a scowl on his face and refused to speak, until some acquaintance walks up and then the smile and light appear until that person walked away. They are just very good at it and I truly believe it is when they can't hide from those of us who really do know them so well, that the bomb is dropped. Because they don't know what else to do at that point."
That rang so true for me in my M right now. As did so many other sentences from your posts.
TIF. this is not the worst journey is life. There are so many positives. One of them is finding who your true friends are, another is discovering your true self and another is finding people in similar situations on this board!
Okay, chin up, keep smiling, have fun, be well!
Fallgirl, looked at your thread. Yes, definite similarities! Cat has been great at giving advice and putting things in a clear light. I feel the same way as you - have made a good deal of improvements on myself and feel great about those and for the most part am at least reasonably happy but there is always that lurking "fear" that he won't come out of this. But really what can I do about that? Nothing. Just have to keep being me.
Cat, nothing in particular happened new. Just me having a hard time with a particular alien issue that I am having a hard time detaching from and accepting. Seriously, it is so juvenile. Anyway, it always seems when I am really questioning what the heck I am holding on for I get a "reason." Last night H did something for me that was selfless - vintage H and it has been a looooong time (probably months) since he really thought of me over anyone (esp himself). So I guess that is why. I do believe he is in there somewhere.
I hope you didn't mind me asking about your H's spirituality. It is just that it was such a big part of my H's identity and past that I feel like it is a big part of what he needs to deal with in order to come out of all of this and "recover" fully and become whole. It is interesting how my prayers have changed from asking God to make him change his mind to basically just praying for H to find what he is looking for and be healed and whole again. Ultimately that is the most important thing.
TIF
Glad you got a glimpse of Old H. As for what you can do about H not coming out of it, well, that`s the point I`m stuck on too.
I just hate that the memories my three will take with them are of living with a sulking father and a frustrated mother who have minimal engagement with each other. I`m actually glad that H bails out a often as he does-home late from work and out again-so we only have two hours of him and his moods most evenings.
But its hard to live with his hatred. If I got the chance of an affair right now I`d take it. I`m missing emotional and physical intimacy too long and not a hope of it in sight from H.
I`m wondering is it time for the `tough love` stage. Shape up or bail out buddy cos I`ve had it with him his moods, his blaming me for everything, and his absenteeism as a father too. H knows that in our country I`ll get custody of the kids, and get to live with them in the family home. He`ll be the big loser.
Then again it might give him the chance to live the bachelor life he so obviously craves.
I`m wondering is it time for the `tough love` stage. Shape up or bail out buddy cos I`ve had it with him his moods, his blaming me for everything, and his absenteeism as a father too. H knows that in our country I`ll get custody of the kids, and get to live with them in the family home. He`ll be the big loser.
Then again it might give him the chance to live the bachelor life he so obviously craves.
Fallgirl.....
THAT.....Sounds like a ploy to me.....
Be careful what you ask for.....you might just get it.
IF...it interferes with YOU living your life for you, then yes, it may be better for you...
If you have to do this, and it is what is best for YOU, then find a balance and do it from a place of love instead of anger...
I.E.
Get the hell out !
OR
I see you struggling with things, and I want you to have the oppurtunity to think things through without any pressure from me....You deserve that...Why don't WE find a way for that to happen for you...
Trusting,
Don't worry about asking about H. I will tell you if I feel I cannot share something. Just wasn't the easiest answer. Been hit with some very hard questions on these boards in the last few days, which is a good thing.
You have to let go of the fear. Until that happens, you are not truly detached. You CANNOT control him, you cannot make his choices for him, and you will not be able to make any reasonable, rational choices for you if you are still living with fear of any of it. That hard weekend I had a few weeks back, that was when I let go of the fear. I have none now. It is really wierd to even say that. Yes I was detatched. Yes I was moving on, GAL, whatever you want to call it. Yes I was good with me. Yes I knew that no matter what I would be ok. But I was not trusting H's process for H. Fear is a horrible thing and once you learn to let it all go, you will be in a different place.
Cat,
I figured you would let me know if you didn't want to share. I know that you are trying not to say "too much" for anonymity-sake so I wanted to be sensitive to that as well.
I know, the fear thing. I do hate that aspect of it and am working through it. It just takes so much time and is a process. I know I would be fine without him - am coping fine now. My head knows it but it is my heart that has a harder time.
I read your question about saying ILY on another thread and I had been thinking about that on and off recently. I haven't said it for so long (since I stopped trying to "pursue" at all) that I wonder what would happen if I threw it out there. I have finally decided that I am not ready for that yet. I WANT to when he is acting so much like himself but there is still too much other weird stuff there. He has to know how I feel - my actions/attitude show it.
I also wonder what would happen if I were to walk up to him and plant one on him.
Won't do that either though.
Mach,
Thanks for taking me to task. Sorry for the hijack TIF but cant find Mach`s thread.
Fear and anger both part of the same coin, eh? I feel as if H has the sword of Damocles over me these days and waiting for it to fall puts me in the fearful angry place. The place that got us where we are in the first place.
Yes, you`re right I have to come from my higher self and appeal to his higher self. Right now though we`re avoiding each other and maybe that`s ok too because we both need time to process our pain.
This detaching business is hard to get the hang of. Just when I think I am I realise from Cat`s statement that I`m not:
"You have to let go of the fear. Until that happens, you are not truly detached"
Hope you`ve some fun stuff planned for your day TIF! This is a one day at a time job!
Yea, fear and anger are part of the same coin and you get one or the other when you flip it. So I threw the coins away LOL.
I appreciate that you understand why I try to not say too much. The I love you thing. Just letting it be for now. I do touch H now if I feel like it. Haven't gotten to planting a kiss yet, but I also don't try to NOT touch him like I did before. I'm glad that you recognize you are not ready for that yet. That is one of the keys. Keeping your focus on you and not him.
Around here we use the words detatch, drop the rope. But really what those are code words for is LET GO. That sounds scary.
Is letting go the same as giving up? Only if you want it to be.
Is it relinquishing control? Yes it is.
Can you control the other drivers on the street? Can you be 100% certain that you will get to your destination safely? If you have an accident, will you never drive or ride in a car again, giving fear your power? Will you forever drive offensivly, assuming if you don't cause the wreck others will, giving your anger your power? Or will you get in the car, knowing that the only driver and car you can maneuver is the one you are driving, taking care to try not to hurt anyone else, get to your destination safely, and being grateful along the way, knowing that you made it? You travelled your journey, even if you had to take a detour or two.
Ha! Funny that you use the driving anaolgy Cat! It occured to me recently that I`m the same in marriage as I am on the road.In dreamland half the time, shiping at the other drivers the next, breaking lights, impatient, intolerant.
All these lessons in letting go of fear of letting people be transfers into everything in my life and everyone. Marriage and H is just a small part of it.
Thanks for dropping by!
Wow, had another deep conversation for a couple hours with H early this morning. Three things are certain: he is depressed, he is looking for something to feel fulfilled but doesn't seem to know what, and his self worth seems to be about 0. MLC. It is sad.
I tried to validate as much as possible and not to put pressure on but may have blown it at times, especially when the conversation turned to the kids. I basically told him he is "losing" them, especially S. I can see their trust in him slowly diminishing since he just isn't there for him. He thought he was "reconnecting" (his word) with them this summer by taking them out once in awhile (it has been maybe once every couple of weeks). But other than that he has spent very little time with them. He then said maybe he would do a better job if he didn't live here. I know, doesn't make any sense at all! I told him (again, probably screamed pressure and guilt though I tried not to make it sound that way) that what they really needed was a daddy who was here, being a daddy.
Hope I didn't push him out the door. He did leave to clear his head but said he would be back.
He also said that he might be able to "communicate better" if he wasn't here. I have no idea what that means.
It is hard to see him in so much turmoil . He can't have any type of remotely deep conversation without getting emotional which is so not like him normally. I wish he would admit he needs help.
My take on this TIF, is that the guy can`t decide what to do. Don`t push him in any direction. He has to be the one to decide.
My H went through this too. saying he`d be a better father if he was separated. Yeah, right! And being very incosistent in his attention towards them in the last few months. Just not being physically present, and then when he is, just being very snappy with them. Then suddenly, falling all over them with insincere praise and interest in what they are at. But I feel I have to let go of them too. Give him a chance to be with them whatever way he wants to be. Just get out of the house and leave them to it once in a while.
I`m now at the point that if H really decides for sure that he wants to leave then I won`t stop him. But I won`t push him in that direction either(if I can help it!)
Glad you had a talk. Storm Rider talks of it as a window. Just a glimmer of time where you can see their hurt selves. Then they can shut down and back pedal for another while.
Thanks for the advice FG. I am glad for the talk, too - that makes three "good", deep talks within a couple of weeks after months of basically nothing. It does help to see and understand better how much pain and turmoil he is in so I can better sympathize and understand the drama he puts us through. It really hurts to see him this way and to feel like he doesn't want my help at all, though to me the fact that he is still here and that he has opened up makes me think on some level he does, or at least he still wants that connection IN CASE he "decides" he wants my help.
I was good at shutting out the negative blah blah and seeing it for what it was. And when he mentioned how it might be better if he moved out I kept my mouth shut, except for the bit about the kids needing him around, though actually I don't think that was brought up right after him saying that.
I certainly won't push him out the door at all.
Hearing about the hurt does make it a bit easier to stomach the crazy.
Hi Faith ~
Yep, you have that absolutely right... 1 day at a time.
On the subject of having them move out...
Sometimes I think it would be better for me since I couldn't see what he was doing all the time, or when he left and when he came home. His stuff wouldn't be here, so I wouldn't have the opportunity to snoop.
On the other hand, since he is still here, I can DB in front of him.
So, I really don't know what I would want.
I'm thinking though that it would really hurt if he moved out.
Especially if he moved in with the skank.
We are in the same house, and a D is in process...
So yes, it's 1 day at a time.
MJ
MJ,
What does snooping get you? Probably just hurt and pain. Make it part of your DBing. Don't snoop. No matter if the opportunity presents itself or not. Yes I know it is hard, especially when we are not only wanting to save the M but protect ourselves in case of D as well. But better off if you don't know. If it is something you should know, it will be revealed to you in time.
Yup, no snoopin. Just drives you-and them-C R A Z Y!I know!
TIF, hope you`re bearing up well! Its a funny game and can only be taken one day at a time as you say!
TIF,
You seem to be doing pretty good. The communicating better thing--I heard, I can't talk to you now, but if I move out I will call you every day and talk for hours. They make no sense so don't make yourself crazy over it.
Also the kid thing, please just try to remember that is another one of those things you really can't control. His R with them is up to him, and as long as he is not abusing them, then you sort of have to let it unfold the way it will. For me, that has probably been the hardest thing, so I just spend as much time with S as he will allow. He is a teenager so...
I know - hearing him say he thought he could communicate better with the kids if he didn't live here was so nonsensical I just ignored it and don't worry about it at all. He does try to pay at least a bit of attention to the kids but just doesn't seem to "get" that they need him as a daddy doing "regular" daddy things and not just the fun dad who takes them out. Or maybe he just can't handle that kind of responsibility right now. One of these days maybe that daddy will come back.:)
It has been quite a past few days. I had a great week last week with being able to maintain a PMA and not let things get to me. Then I started seeing so much of my H peeking out and heard/saw things that really surprised me (in a good way). Of course there was still crazy MLC crap but good stuff too, "normal" stuff. Now we seem to be back into the pushing away part of the dance and I am letting it get to me too much. When I see the good things it is so hard for me to have patience because I almost expect things to snap back to normal and of course they won't. I need to just detach and enjoy the easier interaction between us and not worry about the timeline!
And I just can't get over the selfishness and how an adult can put their needs above their desires over their kids'. I wonder if he really just can't think about anyone else right now or won't?
I know everyone's journey through MLC is different but I can someone reconnect with the family BEFORE issues were worked through in his head? Some things he has said recently have made me think he really does know some of the things that are truly getting to him from his past and that he is realizing his void filling is not working but I can't see him being able to work through them anytime soon.
I guess I am thinking too much.
TIF,
I have actually been watching the same thing with my H and wondering the same things about reconnecting. I sort of think in many ways that it is a joint process. My H has begun talking to me again. Not big stuff, but stuff that probably only I, someone who has walked his life with him, who understands the Rs he has with his family, the dynamics, could listen to and know what he is saying and feeling without many words or explanations. This has not happened in probably two years or more. I have nothing to offer him in the way of thoughts because he has to deal with these things, but I am grateful that he is sharing with me a little.
The kids thing is sad to watch no matter what age the kids are. But if you really look at the situation, other situations, you will see that more parents put their own needs over their children. My mother did, which is probably why I refuse to but not all parents are like that. Many people prescribe to the idea that if they are happy then the kids will be. Others just honestly think that their actions do NOT affect their children. My mother insists that NOTHING she did had anything to do with where my sister and I are and how our lives have gone. I won't get into the details, but if she had been more involved with us, I would bet my life that many of the things that happened to the both of us would not have.
Funny that you brought that up because my mother and I actually had a conversation about that last week. Since this stuff with H has been going on, she has taken the opportunity to try to explain her actions to me. To explain that she learned that she has to make herself happy. And that now maybe I could understand why she did what she did. After many times telling her I still could not, I was finally able to tell her in no uncertain terms, "yes I have to make myself happy because no one else can do it for me. But when it comes at the expense of the people that I love, when making me happy makes them miserable or changes their lives, then how can I honestly say that I am happy, because then I am hurting people." So needless to say, I don't judge my mother anymore because she does not think on that same level, but I don't think we will be having that conversation again. She had no response other than that I was right. But everyone has their own sense of what is right and how much it will or won't effect others and that is the bottom line.
Cat,
Timely advice and insight from you as usual.:)
I think it must be a joint process. When I first came on here and read the 6 stages of MLC by HB I was looking for the stages to be happening in that linear way. While it is a valuable resource, it certainly does seem like for most it doesn't happen that way and with those times frames. My H definitely is cycling between the replay, withdrawal, and depression and now really seems a bit in reconnecting as well. Can't wait for the replay crap to end.
I am trying to just be grateful, grateful, grateful for the positives and the good things that have happened and try not to get sucked in now as things have settled back into not as good. I am definitely not as detached as I need to be.
The whole selfish parent thing - I know many people are like that even if they aren't in MLC. It is just extra hard to see a man who was so selfless before being so selfish now. Do you think he realizes and just doesn't care?
It is interesting to see my S sometimes barely give his dad the time of day, a total 180 for him and H seems to be noticing a bit now. Good.
Right after the bomb(s), my H commented that he may lose his R with S but maybe someday it could be rebuilt. Keep in mind that I was planning on moving across the country. However, then he changed to nothing will change with S. For a while, I think he truly believed that, or at least refused to believe that S was being negativly affected and that it was either my way of trying to manipulate H into trying or S's way of manipulating me to let him do what he wants (remember preteen/teenager). Fast forward to today, two years after bomb one. Several months ago, S and H got into a knock down drag out fist fight, that H started with his mouth and S finished with his fists. Initially, H wanted to believe it was all S just being brat. Then as it was told to him what was witnessed by outsiders, H realized that he had much bigger role in it than that. Since then, H has tried to be with S if he says he will. This is something we have talked about alot because of how much H is working now. One day a few weeks ago, he said he couldn't believe that I didn't think he struggled with it every day. All I could tell him was that the H that I married I know would struggle with it but him now, I have no clue and that I am saddened because I know this is not the type of father he wants to be and that there is really very little time left before S is an adult. He is thinking. I can see it. I hear it.
Funny how the kids adjust. S wants his father around more and wants him normal, but he has even just started letting H be a whole bunch. I guess they detatch as well. And no my H was not like this for most of S's life either. Yes he has always worked a ton but he was dad, not father.
Wow - your S took his fists to his dad? Must have been a bad fight! Sometimes I wish my S would act out in some big way against his dad to get his attention. I don't think my H realizes the extent he is damaging his kids. Makes me so mad. Things he has verbalized about his dad in the past that bothered him he is now doing which I would so love to point out to him but I think it would be futile whil he is still so much in the fog.
"Funny how the kids adjust. S wants his father around more and wants him normal, but he has even just started letting H be a whole bunch. I guess they detatch as well. And no my H was not like this for most of S's life either. Yes he has always worked a ton but he was dad, not father." - perfect! That is exactly what I see too here. My H has always worked really long hours but he ALWAYS made a point to spend time with the family when he could and was a dad (a great one, too) not a father. Now he still works long hours but absolutely everything else takes priority.
Blech - having a very negative attitude this week and feeling like my prayers are not being heard. I need to shake this!!
Yes H walked around with a bad black eye for over a week. It wasn't pretty but when I look at it, I can't help but giggle a little because it was deserved. I don't know how much attention it really drew (H likes to pretend things didn't happen, always has), but it was something. And it was something that showed me my own strength and faith because God was the ONLY thing that kept me from calling H's mother and telling her to come get her S and his stuff since she created this monster, she could have him back. But that would have been me punishing H and God wanted me to leave H to him to deal with.
Your prayers are being heard. Trust me on that. It is hard to have the patience required sometimes to see the answers to them and I always try to remember when I pray, I sit here and want to see certain answers and God doesn't work that way. Sometimes the answers are NOT what we think we want and we don't always want to do them. That day, that they fought, I WANTED to kill H. I WANTED to call a lawyer that second. I WANTED to leave. And I told H as much. Boy nothing like mother bear instincts. LOL. But I knew I had to calm down. I went home and left them with people that I knew would protect S if need be, and I sat with myself and I prayed and yelled and told God what I wanted to do. Then I told him that I needed him to tell me what to do because underneath what I wanted, it didn't feel quite right. I was told not to do anything. To let it be what it was, a fight, and not to punish H for it. To be nice and let it be. I didn't want to hear that. I didn't want to do that. I wanted to hurt him like he was hurting my S. But I was told to leave it. So I did. I argued with God for about a week about it. But then I finally said this is what you are asking me to do so I will. And I let it go, I have forgiven H, which I honestly thought would be impossible (again the mother in me) and I know that I will see God's hand in H's behavior with S as time goes by.
Sometimes we really just have to get out of His way.
I worried(prob still do worry) bout the kids in all of this.But my GF who`s been through ssimilar herslef, explained that kids have a different perspective of their parents than we have of each other as spouses and that they probably didn`t view H in as negative light as I expected.
No I`m not happy with H`s lack of involvement with and indeed, his stated indifference towards the kids. But Hey, I think I`ve gotta drop that rope too.
Anyway, after five days showing my kids a good time(or so I thought!) DS declared today that Dad was much nicer than me!
No matter what, kids are much more forginv and indeed, notice a lot less than us spouses. Maybe we should aim to be as accepting, and more tolerant, as they are.
Mind you I`m talking about the pre teens! LOL!
FG,
Don't remember how old your kids are and I know TIF's are younger. Yes they do notice stuff, more than we realize. If they feel comfortable enough, they will tell you what they think eventually. Again though, it depends on their age and how able they are to express their thoughts clearly.
My S, God Bless his heart, is my savior on some days. He allows me to see the humor in this, allows my frustration and shares his with me. He also has shown me my errors and has actually said things that make me see that he understands how blind his father is to things sometimes. So I love that he is the age he is. We have a lot of fun together and I think we are both helping each other through this. No he doesn't know all of the ugly details, but he has seen enough with his own eyes and ears to know this is all nuts.
For me, that is the hardest part in all of this. Because I do not want him to come out of this damaged and there are times when I have to wonder if D would just be the best thing for him. I don't think it is but there is definately a fine line.
FG - I am struggling too with the indifference on H's part with the kids. He says he cares about them but his lack of involvement says otherwise. I need to drop that rope better, too, but it is hard when we think about their little lives and hearts. I have been so angry and frustrated with that this week, and feeling like crying. A lot.
Cat,
I am having such a hard time this week with feeling like my prayers are being answered. The peace is not there and the anger seems to be getting bigger by the day. I am sure part of it is the fact that last week went well and complacency set in.
He called to "check in" a few times last week (that has almost never happened for the past few months), he seemed way more interested in me/the kids, and there was even a tiny bit of what could be contstrued as "pursuing" on his part. This week - nada. I know this is part of the dance but last week sure got my hopes up. Bad detaching, I know.
You said, "Sometimes we really just have to get out of His way." You are so right and when I am able to remember that and do that I do so much better.
I had to laugh at your comment about wanting to send your H back to his mom. I so want to ship mine to his parents' too and tell them they can all sit around and be miserable together.:)
TIF,
I understand. When the more normal times come, you can almost forget this is happening and then blam, you get slapped in the face. My H is a master at it. I'm sure they all are and I think for those that live with them, it is very difficult.
I was reading something last night, it was a channeled message from the Archangel Gabriel, if you believe in that sort of stuff, but it really doesn't matter where it came from in the end. It was a message about overwhelming tasks. It said that nothing will be put before us that we cannot handle and overcome. We are all here to learn things that our souls need to learn and that is what these trials are for. We are not being set up to fail by being given things that we cannot endure. However, because of free will, we can make choices that make the trials last longer, but untimately God and the angels are with us, helping us through this. Remember God says I know the plans I have for you. Trust is just so important.
I don't know how "spiritual" you are, but many people believe we are living in an extrodinary time because a shift in universal consciousness is happening. Which will be a wonderful thing but our souls are working harder and learning more in one incarnation than in the past. And the children are a whole different set of people than children of the past with strengths within them that prior generations didn't have. As I am a perpetual student of everything, I have read a ton of stuff about this. Many believe that the children born since the early 90's fall into a category being called Indigo children. At least many of them. They are more intelligent and much more aware of the different planes of existance than we are. Just interesting stuff and makes me wonder if this is where my S is drawing his strength from.
As I was growing up, I knew many many religious people, people who believed in God, but one thing I noticed was they never talked about hearing him. Or listening to their own intuition. That is what this shift is supposed to be about. A large shift in our overall consciousness and awareness about our existence. I have wondered many times if it is happening simply because of this board. So many people here now talk about being still, listening to their own knowing, hearing God's words. Whether it is God or universal power, or whatever you want to call it, it is something to think about. Maybe that is what these trials are for, to open us up to ourselves and the power that we all have and making us more compassionate towards others on a whole, just starting at home. Ok I've mused and ruminated enough.
Have a good day.
Cat
I`ve heard that too, Cat, about all the problems being thrown at us being for our own learning. When H asked me last week "How are you?" (well, I knew he didn`t really ask out of concern for me but was perhaps, curious about how I was handling our strained circumstances). I answered very truthfully. I told him that yes, it was a very painful place but that in LOTS of ways I`d learnt so much from all of it, that I have a greater inner tranquillity than I ever had before and that so much good had come already from all the pain.
Doesn`t stop me wanting him to take the high road forever though!
Part of what I`ve been working on is listening to my inner voice. Like you Cat, I really do a lot of thinking in all of this. Trying not to come from the head place al the time though but being aware of a Higer Power in all of this. I`ve just started reading The Heart of the Soul by Gary- (google!)Love that its promising to get me tune into my own feelings-those deep seated feelings of rage/sadness /whatever we put the mask on.
Yeah, I`d LOVE if our H`s all read this book. I`m convinced that my H has more baggage than a Boeing 747. And somehow, dork here was(get this!) ATTRACTED to the baggage! (yech!)Oh and of course, I threw my own baggage in on top of his which just about(even though its a mere briefcase compared to his lot!LOL!) amounted to putting a match on a heap of gunpowder.
So now we`ve got the firework display!
Anyway, forget about our H`s looking into their hearts(H told me last week "You may be going through a life crisis but I`m not. My problem is YOU!"!) This journey really is about US! We`ve to work on our own baggage. We`ve to feel our own anger, pain, sadness.We`ve to learn that we are truly lovable. We`ve to love ourselves again.
TIF, I hear your sadness, girl. Its damn HARD to live with the most inconsiderate roommates in the world. I really believe that they are swiping out at us in any way they can-dirty dishes in the sink, leaving all the cildcare stuff, the worry about bills, to us.
But from their perspective, if we`re actually looking fab, having fun,relishing our journey, that just adds fuel to their fire and they really want to try and make us suffer more. So if H`s are acting up, that`s a sign, IMHO, that their noticing our progress.So bawl your eyes out on your own, don`t let him see he`s getting to you.
Cat, I wonder about the setting boundaries thing in your case. H `going berserk` as you said in my thread re you getting another animal. Sounds very controlling on his part. Why don`t you get it anyway and challenge that? You`ve got to pull him on going beserk at any rate. Remember my fingers in my ears trick? Don`t let him talk down to you. Heck, why don`t you tell him you`re getting four animals and then just settle for one! Lol!
At the end of the day, in all of this, if I can continue to improve myself AND if I achieve a more amicable separation, that in itself will be progress. I suspect its going to take more than one lifetime for my H to shed his baggage and I don`t know how long I`m willing to wait.
Well, H and I had quite a conversation last night. Looking back at your post, Cat, you said "When the more normal times come, you can almost forget this is happening and then blam, you get slapped in the face. " Yup.
We had another late night conversation but his one he seemed much angrier than normal. He wasn't in a good mood when he came in but said there was no real reason. Anyway, he kept pushing me to find out my "feelings" on things and why I want him to stick around, etc. I basically said I made a promise and I intend to keep it. He of course kept pushing me that i have to be miserable, etc. I said I was fine, enjoying the kids, trying to find new things to pursue, etc. Anyway, he really kept pushing even though I kept trying to steer the conversation away from anything resembling R talk. So then he starts telling me what MY feelings are and explaining things and honestly some of it just didn't really make sense. I did at one point tell him to stop projecting his crap onto me.
I felt awful after the conversation and now am trying to put it all in perspective after very little sleep, and trying to remind myself it is not about me. It is hard.
I do see the childhood wounds at play. It is so interesting to hear him say sometimes in so many words and sometimes implying that the things he is trying to make himself different/make things better aren't working.
FG,
I gained a lot of insight this morning reading your thread and people's responses. Storm's reminder of the confusion was good for me. So are the reminders that this is their journey and it can't be rushed.
I just thought he seemed to be making progress, particulalry in our relationship, and then BAM.
So now I am back to regrouping, regaining my PMA, and moving on as if the conversation didn't bother me as much as it did, and hopefully soon it won't.
Hey Faith ~
Remember you and I are in the same situation. H still living at home. We see everything they do, and because of that we analyze constantly. At least I do. We need to remember to keep our eyes looking up, and not on the circumstance. It's hard I know. And because they live at home, the urge is there to snoop. I did it because I was looking for a sign that they had broke up. And more often than not, I would find something that I wished I had never seen. Mostly ow love notes to H, or receipts of things he bought her or places they went. I finally made up my mind to stay far away from all of it. And, if that wasn't enough, his cell would vibrate, he would look at it, and text back. Right in front of me. Like he forgot he was married! I am starting ( and hoping ) to think that she is becoming controling and desperate. And through it all, I have continued to be the bigger person, and give her nothing she can say about me. Oh sure, she probably wonders why I haven't moved out of my house yet, that I'm being stubborn. And, she probably tells H that. Every so often she probably asks what's going on with the D, why is it taking so long. I hope she gets real controling, and H starts seeing her for what she really is.
Ok,I'm done venting now!
Did you read Serenity's poem, " The Courage To Let Go" ?
If not, read it. You will be blessed by it.
MJ
MJ,
Thanks for the encouragement and the reminders. I know, I have a hard time getting caught up in the analyzing and not just trying to live my life and take care of the kids and just be happy.
Let's hope the OW in your case is becoming controling and desparate! Sounds like a surefire way to end that relationship.:)
That poem is great - thanks for the recommendation. I guess that is my problem - not truly letting go and trusting that God will work things out for the best, whatever that may be.
I have been having a hard time lately with the roller coaster - but mine rather than his. One day I am happily detached and my focus is where it should be. The next I am feeling like I am just done and tired of being treated like I am not at all important when I know I could find somebody who WOULD treat me that way so why am I sticking around? The man I married was full of integrity. This one, not so much.
Right now I am living with half man/half alien which is strange. So much of the time he "seems" normal with his interactions with the kids, the dog, and even me at least to some extent. Yet he still wants space, is not around much, doesn't want to include me in his life, and obviously doesn't want the day to day responsibility of being a family man. Yet he hasn't quit his job like he said he was going to and just yesterday he finally got around to doing a couple of things I have waited months for him to take care of.
Sigh. Now my venting is done.:)
TIF,
Commented about this a bit on my thread. Yes I think we all go on our own rollercoaster, but at least for me, it is more like a see saw or a swing now (you know, up and down, back and forth).
You will be ok.
Yes my H went through this too at the end of last year, finally doing things I had been waiting for for a long time. Just part of the process. I think they test the waters for themselves in so many ways, just trying to make sense out of stuff and feel productive.
Are you still praying and meditating? That helps to settle me when the swing starts to move.
Cat,
Definitely not praying as much as I should and I am noticing that my focus is off, I worry more, and I have a harder time seeing the big picture. Trying to get that back higher on the priorities!
I can see my H trying to make sense of stuff now a bit. I need to have a big discussion with him about finances and I don't know how he will react - alien or human?
TIF
Sorry you got the slap in the face. But you handled it really well!
Seems like your H was trying to push you off your tightrope that`s taking you through the MLC abyss. He was trying to push into fear and anger but you stood strong.
Yup, its hard to take. You probably feel very lonely at times living with the Alien. But look at that conversation as a victory for you, for love and for sanity.
There`s a learning in these tough times for all of us.
Keep loving you, having fun, learning about your emotional switches and loving your kids.
You`re doing so well!
(((hugs)))
What is going on with the finances if you want to share a little.
If it is not a super major thing, maybe just try leaving him a note or leaving the bill out and a note. If it is a bigger deal, well sweetie, good luck. Pray about it and you will be surprised that the right words will come. Don't forget to pray that he has God's ears to be able to hear what you are saying.
Someone recently used a phrase regarding H's thinking pattern that has sort of stuck with me. She said that "the lens he is looking through is foggy so he thinks it is other people who are not being clear, but really it is him who is seeing things unclearly but he doesn't realize it". We all talk about the fog but I never really thought about it that way, and that explains why sometimes he seems so certain and confident, but he really isn't.
FG -
Thanks for the encouragement.:) Yup, it is a lonely place to be. I hate that I don't have H as my "friend" anymore, although things are easing a bit and I can share a bit more of the day to day with him now, because he actually ASKS occasionally.
That water off a duck's back thing has been a lifesaver for me and my psyche. The good thing is that it is translating into all areas of my life, not just in regards to H and any spew. My worrier tendencies have dissipated (at least somewhat - still a daily struggle) and I can let so much more go now. It is certainly a better way to live! I think the kids are enjoying me taking things more lightly and not losing patience so fast with them, too.:) A win-win situation.
Cat,
With the finances it is more of a reeling him in a bit and trying to get him to work with me and be on the same page like we used to be. I used to be able to discuss things with him and let him know where we stood but then for the past few months he didn't seem to care at all and any discussion would be me being "controlling." I will turn it over to God but it is hard because I know whatever I say may very well go in one ear with H(if it actually makes it that far) and out the other.
Over the past few years due to H's busy work schedule I have gradually pretty much totally taken over the finances and I see that as a God thing, and one of the many ways I see things laid out to prepare me for what I am having to deal with now. Who knows where we would be if he was still in charge of it all!
You know it probably was/is a God thing.
See what you posted to FG, you are starting to see the positive side of all of this.
Yes, definitely see some positives especially in terms of me. My relationship with my kids is better because I am trying hard to show extra love/time/patience, I am finally getting out there and trying to GAL after feeling "stuck" at home while the kids were small (now it is a matter of survival!), I am willing to take way more risks and try new things more than ever before, etc. See what can happen when you get SHOVED way out of your comfort zone??:)
Wierd how it just sort of sneaks up on you isn't it?
Yup, crazy how that works.
Glad you had a better day, TIF. I`m fond of saying this is OUR MLC too! Our time for our journey.
There are bumps on the road though such as
-loneliness
-doing most of the Man Jobs!
-not knowing what`s gonna blow up in your face next
I can take care of the first two. Actually like doin` the Man Jobs now! And my other relationships have deepened because of my new insights.
As for the last one, hang loose stay calm, its really only a way of reeling you in especially when they notice you detaching.
FG,
I actually completed a "man job" I have been waiting forever for H to do last night. It feels great and looks great.
I made the mistake last night of making a comment instead of keeping my stupid mouth shut and boy did that blow up in my face! Holy Overreaction, Bat Man! I got the anger, the intense defensiveness, and even pouting. Of course I didn't just walk away but had to get a couple more jabs in. He was still mad this morning. But I do really think while my comment was unnecessary it wasn't the whole cause of the strong reaction.
And lonely I am. I miss the man I used to share with, confide in, and bounce ideas off of. I do more than I had for awhile since he seems more open but still not to the extent it is anywhere near normal.
I made the mistake last night of making a comment instead of keeping my stupid mouth shut and boy did that blow up in my face! Holy Overreaction, Bat Man!
What was the comment ?
Just a little comment about him not being where he said he had been when he got home. I should have kept my mouth shut. I said it lightly but it certainly wasn't taken that way.
I need to refocus big time this week as I am just fed up in general.
Just a little comment about him not being where he said he had been when he got home. I should have kept my mouth shut. I said it lightly but it certainly wasn't taken that way.
Yea, not so good....Gave him a button to push huh ?
Those comments, no matter how tiny, will send you both spiraling everytime...
Hey Faith ~
Holy Overreaction Bat Man! You made me laugh!!
You are braver than I am. I am not at the place yet where I can ask H where he's been. I know the Alien would jump on me big time!
It sounds like you and the kids are doing good. Having them around must be a big help in taking your mind off H once in a while. I have my dogs!
I'm at that fed up place myself.
It's like who do they think they are, don't they realize what they already have. I think a too bad their loss attitude is setting in with us. I don't want it to though. I've been standing too long to get a hottie attitude now!
Watching the Inspirational channel, and listening to the Christian radio station helps me to refocus.
MJ
Mach - yeah, it was dumb of me and probably not so good that I followed it up with a couple of other choice comments about his selfishness, etc. in response to some stuff he said. Oh, well. It will blow over I supppose though it may have set me back a couple of months.:) I do think his reaction was so strong not necessarily because of what I said but other stuff going on with him regarding work, etc., but who really knows. Even with his crazy I can read him better than he thinks I can.
MJ - the thing is I haven't really been asking where he goes at all and he has been volunteering more lately. Not that I believe it is the whole truth and nothing but the truth but at least it is something. He even has started calling to check in on occasion, something that hasn't happened for a long time. I may not get any volunteered info or calls for some time now, thanks to my big mouth.
The kids have been my salvation this summer, being able to focus on them. I will definitely miss them when school starts in a few days!
I am not sure, maybe the fed up place is not so bad if it will give us the strength we need for the situation. I am finally at the point of feeling the need/strength to set some boundaries but still praying on how to handle that.
I just remembered something that hopefully will help me refocus through my fed-upedness. A few weeks ago my little D was asking me some questions about family, etc., trying to sort out how it works. One thing she asked me was if you got to choose who you married. I said yes. And then she asked me if I chose Daddy. I said yes, I chose Daddy.
I need to still choose her Daddy.
Out of the mouths of babes . . .
... And he chose you too!
MJ
He did! Wonder if he remembers it that way?
Ha! Ha! TIF! Love that last comment! I bet if you asked my H right now if he remembers choosing me he`d say he made a big mistake!
TIF I wish I shut up a long time ago. Answering H back, confronting him with his crap behaviour just got us into deeper crap.
Keep "Shut Up" as your mantra!
Yeah, I`m struggling with that one too!
FG,
Yes, I am trying to remember to shut up, shut up, shut up!:)
Surprisingly, after leaving obviously in a very bad mood yesterday a.m. for work, by the time we all got in last night he seemed to be in a decent mood, played with the kids, was fine with me, etc. I steered clear, though, and kept to myself.
Actually, I think that whole "shut up" thing applies to all situations. Things go so much smoother with everyone when we enable that filter between our brains and mouths and think before we speak.:) Of course, in these cases it is better to not speak at all.
Charlyne (from Charlyne Cares) refers to it as "zip the lips." I do a lot of that...it's a wonder I actually have a tongue left instead of just a bloody stump. Ugh...not a nice image!
But I do think it helps to be very careful about what we say.
Peace,
Dawn
Funny how much I remind my kids to zip the lips, too! I have gotten way, way better but still sometimes my mouth gets the best of me.
Imagine how different the world would be if we each followed our own advice!
Peace,
Dawn
Wow, I am really struggling today. I am having such a hard time focusing on what is true and important. I have seen some positives yet can't concentrate on those - only seem to be able to see the negatives. Most of those right now have to do with finances. It is so hard for me to not feel the anger and blame for him putting this on me as well. I do what I can but am afraid at some point it won't be enough.
Wish he would snap out of it already.
Hey Faith ~
How are you doing today?
You also have been having some quiet time.
Mmmm... Snapping them out of it.
I wonder if there is a manual on that. We just haven't found it yet. Maybe Amazon has it. Maybe the others who successfully reconciled would let us know where they got theirs.
Currently I am going by the Bible.
I believe that's all we need.
MJ
Hey MJ -
just stopped by your thread. I am doing okay today. I haven't been on here as much lately - trying to sort things out for myself, I guess, as well as getting the kids geared up for school and the last minute fun we are trying to cram in.
Would love a manual on snapping them out of it!:) I am just trying to keep my focus OFF of him and the negative and concentrate on the positive and TRYING to let it all go. It is out of my control anyway.
Faith ~
This feeling has come over me about control.
When my world fell apart as I knew it, it felt like he was in control.
Now, I feel like it's changing and I'm in control. In control of me and the situation. I now feel it is up to me if we reconcile. I have forgiven him, because I needed to do that for myself. He would have to prove himself to me. It would be my choice wether or not to accept him back.
My priority would be to restore.
But I really do feel I'm more in control of the situation now.
MJ
MJ -
I am starting to feel that shift in "power" or control like you are talking about - how the ball is more and more in my court. Like you, I have forgiven but I definitely need him to prove himself to me, just like you are saying.
I have also realized as I have changed that I definitely don't want things to go back to the way they were before, not exactly. My H is a total workaholic and gradually has become more and more so (which actually helped prepare me to be pretty much totally on my own with the kids now) over the years. My biggest gripe was that he didn't spend enough time with the family and I definitely didn't feel like we were a priority. I don't want to do that again. I totally see now that at least some of what drives his perfectionism and workaholism are some of the same issues that are driving his MLC. My prayer is that he is able to work through that and the rest will fall into place. It is all in God's hands.
It feels good to feel more in control.
I have also learned that nagging is not the way to get things to change.
Hello Trustingfaith,
I have read your postings and I am in the same situation as you. My husband and I are separated but living under the same roof. I am trying to detach and I am finding hard when I have to see him almost everyday. I usually go to my room and close the door. We have been separated almost two months. I think he is going through a MLC. We have a great deal of debt and he lost his mom so the signs seem to point all in that direction. I recently read DB and started the plan and he has softened up a bit but he still says he's done. My days are getting harder instead of better. We don't have any kids so were staying under the same roof because financialy we can't make it. He had another W but he claims he no longer does. How do you do it? It seems like when I see him or talk to him, is when I have my worse days. Any advice I will appreciate.
Hey Faith ~
Thanks for wondering how the rest of my weekend went.
I posted about it on my thread.
After all this time, I have come to the conclusion also that nagging is not the way to go.
I am going to treat him like a friend. Like it was when we were first dating. I did not pursue him, but treated him nicely whenever he was around. It makes it so much better for those of us who still live together.
It is really hard, especially when he comes home and you think he has been with ow. But, maybe he wasn't.
How are you doing?
We need to remain strong.
We know how great we are, and what they will be losing.
Focus on the positives and not the negatives.
I know, I know, easier said than done.
(( Hugs ))
MJ
((MJ)) -
Thanks for checking on me.:) I am doing pretty well. I am trying to focus on the positives but yet sometimes still just can't believe who he has become and it is icky, someone I wouldn't choose now for sure. But I do have faith that the "real" him is in there somewhere.
We seem to be in a bit of a pullback after some positives. In my opinion things seem a lot more relaxed between us, though, in general. I no longer feel on eggshells all the time when he is in the same room. I just keep being me. He had been interacting more with me but the past few days isn't as much. HOWEVER, he has been home more in the past week or two than he had been in a loooong time and he is interacting a lot more with the kids and playing with them which is great. They are so happy. I love seeing it but then it makes me wonder if he pulls back from them again how it will affect them. He has even started again in little ways being a "parent" again and not just playing with them. I am trying to focus on each day and not think too far ahead.
godismyrock,
I am going over to post an answer on your thread.
Hey TF,
Just reread your thread, I think you dealing with H very well on the the day to day stuff. My suggestions would be:
-stop the R talks!!! On any level! There is no point cos he doesn't have any answers yet, he is still processing. Come up with a few lines to shut him down, don't say a word, change topics, don't get drawn in! I know you know this, you do it sometimes, but try a bit more too.
- try to take some more of your power back. You are not lucky to be with him. When you look at him, think he is damn lucky to be with me, if I choose to continue to let him! Again, its happening sometimes, keep working on it.
- Have you got some standby activities for the bad days? My garden is currently getting majorly attacked to get me through those days / thoughts, its physical activity, kids can be around and it does not look like I am storming out of the room.
I know you are probably coming here when you need to vent or feel down like most of us. Keep looking for the good in each day and just keep taking the next step.
Faith ~
So tell me...
How has it been around your house lately?
Is H still interacting with the family?
I never thought anyone would betray me like this. I feel like I'm in the lead role of a made for TV movie.
I need to go back to the beginning of your thread again and read it. Remember it was your thread that prompted me to make my first post. Another MLCer that lives at home, who forgot he was married. lol I was a lurker for a long time. I had been following Orchid's story before I noticed yours.
I was posting to Orchid today that I wished we could all show up and be there for each other when we hit those rough patches.
(((HUGS)))
MJ
Oh Faith ~
How did your Labor Day go?
Did the fam do something together?
I finally read thee letter...
It was Blah,Blah,Blah!
MLC / Alien talk all over the place.
My friend laughed about it!
He was projecting this whole thing on me.
He said HE was the lonely one. Ya, as I watched him go out all the time. Ya, how can you be lonely with ow.
Anyway go to my thread and read it.
If you want to that is
MJ
MJ -
Thanks for checking on me. I am having a bad day today, and I know it is all about expectations. My H HAS been interacting way more with the family in general. For the past 2-3 weeks when he was not at work he was almost always home and was even home for dinner most nights. That is a HUGE 180 for him, since for months (getting close to a year now) he has not been home much at all. He has been playing a lot with the kids and actually doing a bit around the house, though he still doesn't interact with me too much (but then I don't hang around him much). I guess that is what threw me for a loop. He was home pretty much all day Saturday and Sunday. It is actually getting less and less stressful having him around. Then this morning he went out and mentioned one place he was going. I assumed he would be back for dinner and he wasn't and of course I am upset.
When he does act more normal it is harder for me to remain detach and to not start acting a bit wifey. Sigh. I am trying so hard to be patient and wait on God because I do see hope in my situation but I am ready for him to get over this. My friend sent me Ecclesiastes 7:8 the other day, "The end of a matter is better than its beginning, and patience is better than pride."
I know it is my pride that gets in the way the days I want to throw the towel in. I can't help the thoughts running through my head that I deserve better than this!! But I do know he has lessons to learn through this as well and while I have made so many good changes his journey is not done yet.
MJ -
Must have crossed posted! That is exactly what I thought when I read your thread - that he was projecting. At least you can see it for what it is - alien speak!!
Now it is over and done - you've read the letter and know what it says. That must be a relief in a way.
SR-
Thanks for your note and your encouragement. I have't been on here too much the past week - just lurking a bit.
I am trying to stay away from R talk - nothing like that has come up for a long time now. He hasn't even hinted anything about moving out for probably at least three months or more, and I ignored it back then, too.
Today was a bad day but overall not so bad most of the time. You're right and I have turned that corner (for the most part) where I do feel that I am the one with the control now, that he is lucky to have me (and not the other way around - most definitely not now!!!), and that it will be my choice if he ever returns to earth to accept him back. The limbo is hard though.
I am tackling some major organization/decluttering projects that I have wanted to do for years now. That is how I keep busy and get my mind off things. I have spent the past few months working on me internally and purging the bad and now I am trying to carry that out on my external surroundings. I am tired of clutter and disorganization that comes from years of being too busy working, chasing small children around, etc. But now it is a priority and things are starting to look good!! It feels great.
Hope your day got better!
Faith ~
Gosh your situation is so much like mine it's unreal!
I know exactly what your talking about, and the way you are feeling when I'm reading what you have written.
The Alien that resides at my house, use to leave right before dinner was done. It was almost like he was listening for me to take the plates out of the cupboard and then jet out. The first couple of times I was so hurt ( How could he resist my cooking, he never could before
) After a while, and when I got stronger, it got to be amusing!
I so can relate to what you said in the last paragraph.
We do deserve better than this! But they are goofy guys right now. I feel I have come a long way in my journey also. They are not there yet. I thought mine might have been, but no.
It's funny... Since H got home, he hasn't even asked me about the letter. I wonder if he even remembers writing it. It was five days ago! lol
He doesn't even look uncomfortable to me either!
Hang in there girl! We will all get there! We can meet them at the finish line and cheer for them when they cross over!
MJ
MJ -
It really is encouraging finding people who know exactly what I am going through. I don't know ANYONE in "real life" that has gone through/is going through this. I would love to meet someone else's MLCer and see if I could spot it in them.
That is how H was all summer - seems like he ran out the door before dinner every night. So now him being home is strange (but good). He just walked in the door a few minutes ago (never said where he was of course) and I managed to be pleasant (oops - had to quick shut this down for a minute - he came in :)) and not throw anything. He is down with the kids now.
Do you think your H is waiting for you to say something about the letter or trying to test your reaction?
Am trying to hang in there with all the grace I can muster. We could be waiting at that finish line a long time!
Faith ~
He just had three helpings of Lasagne! Yep, he's really uncomfortable!
He told me that it looked like it rained here while he was gone. I said I don't know it might have! That was a great 'quick think'! Maybe I was out of town
They say that the MLCer acts normal around other people. Work etc. So I don't know if you could spot it in someone else. Maybe the eyes. But then they don't look at other people the way they look at us. My friend, who also does my hair, said when she saw H last that he had a weird personna about him. Like an emptyness!
H is doing the dishes now, and hasn't said anything about the letter yet. He may be testing my reaction. I've been on my laptop, singing while in the kitchen, dancing to some music that came on TV!
I hope he doesn't think I'm on something!
Have you ever seen a Triatholon where the last ones are coming in after midnight, and they're even sitting down for sev minutes before they're coaxed to get up again. That's what these guys are like. Fast at the beginning, but slowing down at the end. Mine use to be gone all weekend, then went to getting home late at night, now it's usually home by eleven.
Still trying really hard to make sure I know things are still going through as planned.
Little does he know, he's not the one in control!
GOD knows every star in the sky, every hair on our head, and he knows how our lives will be lived before we are born. He knew what was in that letter. He was there when H wrote it.
He was probably shaking his head and wondering what crazy thing are you doing now!
(((hugs)))
MJ
MJ-
Funny about the lasagna! That doesn't sound like someone who is uncomfortable, and neither is staying at home and doing the dishes (can't wait until my H picks that up again - I don't think he has done the dishes more than once in the past year, beyond occasionally putting his own in the dishwasher!).
It is good to know God is in control and at least he can see what is going on in their heads!! None of the rest of us can figure it out!
Interesting observation about the triathalon. I am starting to see that with my H. He used to stay out most of the time, stay up until all hours, etc. Now he is in way, way more and seems to be heading to bed earlier. I can slowly see tiny ways he seems to be settling back into himself, if that makes any sense. His interactions with me are usually pretty normal and relaxed now, other than the glaringly NOT normal things like him still sleeping in another room and not wanting to tell me much at all about anything. Baby steps, baby steps.
I have backed even more off asking him anything than before, though I have barely asked him anything in forever it seems like. I was at least usually asking how his day was when he came in. Interestingly, the other evening when he came home from work I didn't ask and he started asking me how my day was, etc., etc. , like he was fishing. So I asked how his day was. Turned out it wasn't very good. So maybe he WOULD miss me if I weren't around.
I never knew anything about MLC really before this started. What a strange thing. I image H does act pretty normal at work, though surely some things are at least a bit different about him! Who knows.
Hi guys,
I think they can hold it together at work reasonably well most of the time, thats partly why the run out of energy at home.
I noticed H did not eat during Depression stages, eats more now. So may help indicate a bit where he is. Its also perhaps not wanting to particape if during the Anger stage??
Please keep in mind that during a crisis, they are exceptionally good at compartmentalizing their lives. What appears to be normal at work, could actually be a mask put in place to keep others from knowing what is actually going on within them. At home, the mask can be removed and they can just be what they are at this time, emotionally charged teens. It's difficult to wear masks all of the time....
TF,
again you sound good. I know the major things haven't changed here either (the sleeping arrangments etc...) but I think they will be the last to change, one way or the other.
I just wanted to echo Snodderly, they compartmentalize. Men do this anyway, but with MLC, it is much more obvious.
Good reminders about the compartmentalizing! No wonder he sometimes seems so exhausted or such a mess when he gets home from work. And Cat, you are right about this being something men can normally do when they are not in crisis! I know my H is/has to be way more outgoing and extroverted at work than he is by nature and I can't see how he could keep his job if he wasn't able to wear a mask/be different at work now. It seems if they couldn't wear that mask at work and with others they really couldn't function in the real world during the crisis.
It is so hard for me right now to sort out what is "normal" behavior for H and what is not. It has been at least a year since I first noticed him slowly detaching from us/the real world (in hindsight) so it is hard to remember what normal life used to be like!
...I assumed he would be back for dinner and he wasn't and of course I am upset...
When he does act more normal it is harder for me to remain detach and to not start acting a bit wifey..
Oh I can relate. There are many days that I think about how much easier this would be with H not living at home. I have problems when my adult H emerges because it is so sad when he retreats once again.
I agree - my H was way more present in his normal self for 2-3 weeks and then this week is back to the alien mostly. It is hard, hard, hard!
I have been recently looking through pictures from the past year or so that I finally got off of my camera and onto the computer. I noticed first off that I didn't have many of H (since he has been on board the mother ship) and secondly that there are not many good ones of him, and the ones that I have he looks "dead" - there is no spark there in his eyes or face at all. It is so sad. I can't believe I didn't notice that before.
TIF,
Sort of funny how you used the word "spark". That is how someone referred to my H. That he had lost the "spark". And that even if it doesn't seem like it, he will look for it at home and to just make here and me the best that I can.
That is the only way I can describe it. Almost soul-less it seems. I am starting to see a bit of the spark back when he interacts with the kids (or had - it is gone this week). It makes me so sad.
You have described the eyes of a mlcer...the eyes are dead...no sparkle. That is how their soul is right now...deep, dark and no feelings for anything.
Now, take a good, long, hard look at the smile...the smile will be forced as well. When they "zone" out, this is what you will discover. Go back further in time and you will then be able to pin point when he began the process to become a "pod" person.
It makes me so incredibly sad to see it. His smile - so rare now - I don't every think really reaches his eyes. I recently came across a picture of him holding our newborn daughter and he had a surgical mask on but you could see the smile in his eyes. Now, nothing.
It is hard to pinpoint but I think as early as I can remember noticing something "different" was last summer - my BF remembers me telling her then he seemed a bit detached. So more than a year.
I really don't know when to say this "crisis" started. He had a QLC about 10 years ago and some of the same issues came up, but it was minor compared to this (oddly, looking back, I can see a bit of the same replay behaviors, just to a much lesser extent). So the thoughts have been there for years now.
If he did not complete the QLC, he will repeat those behaviors now. When they are going through this, we have to allow "nature" to take its course. We cannot "snatch" and/or "snap" them out of it, for if you do, they will revisit the issues again at a later date and the crisis will be far more intense. It's interesting that you are seeing the behavior to a lessor extent. They are usually more so. It could be that you are leaving him alone and not putting any type of pressure on him. You may actually be more aware of the DB process than you think you are and that is helping the situation as well. Time will tell...
They facial expression is forced, very depressed and/or sad looking. The eyes are the door to the soul and now you can actually see that he is "dead" inside. He must go through the entire crisis in order to come out the other side.
The most important thing is that you take care of yourself during this time. Eat right, get plenty of rest and exercise whenever you can.
I mean that I saw the same replay behaviors during the QLC to a lesser extent - much more intense now. Of course, back then I really had no idea what was going on and why we couldn't seem to get along! Interestingly, he once recently when he was opening up to me brought up that time period and said how the issues were "swept under the rug" at that point. Yes, he definitely needs to deal with it now!!
I am trying so hard to just leave him the heck alone. I have seen some normal for him lately (whatever that is anymore) but now he is back into alien mode big time and it is hard to watch.
Personally, I am overall doing well - GAL, trying new things, making new friends, developing a much deeper bond with my kids than I had before while trying to keep their lives as normal and happy as possible. So it has been good for me in many respects.
Exercise - need to step it up on that one!:)
TIF honey,
you are where I was not so long ago. It is heartbreaking. I, most of us do understand, and I think that hits after we manage to release most of our anger.
Remember, we experienced the QLC too. I wish I had done so much differently then. But I didn't know what it was. I just thought he hated me. Oh well what is done is done as far as all of that goes. I am bound and determined this time to let him finish, if he can. I love him too much not to.
Snodderly,
I have been rereading a bit in the archives. Is there any way to possibly organize some of the stuff you have out there re depression? I find you have such a wonderful understanding of it all.
Sorry for the hijack TIF
Cat,
It is so heartbreaking! I honestly had absolutely no idea what really was going on with the QLC other than he was acting like a butt. And he had some dissatisfaction with life. But then he "recovered" so it seemed and was my loving H again. And now . . . had I known then what I know now . . .
Okay, I am just spinning right now and very upset.
My H was home all day and cleaning up his office space which he has not used for months and months really (hasn't been home long enough to use it). I really don't know what motivated him. Anyway, he has had this picture of me from our wedding up for as long as I can remember. When I saw what he was doing I was so afraid that he would take it down and was praying and praying that he wouldn't. And he did. Can't stop crying.
Why is this upsetting me so much? It is such a stupid little thing in the whole scheme of things. I know we are told to not believe 100% of what they say and 50% of what they do but what if this is the 50% of what I SHOULD believe??!
Ironically, he could tell something was wrong and wants to know what is wrong. I asked why he wanted to know and he said so he could help. Hmmm... What am I supposed to say to that? I told him I didn't want to talk about it right now and he left upset I won't tell him. And NO I won't tell him what is bothering me now. Ever.
I'm sure I will be fine and it will pass but this is so, so hard. How do you people who have been doing this for so long manage to keep from getting bitter and being able to feel any kind of love for your H/W at all? What I am feeling right now is definitely not love.
Hey,
Can you get out and go for a walk or something? Get a bit of space to give you time to get your head in order? Some of the things that happen are just cruel and mean and hurtful. But it does depend on his motivation for it as well, and thats the part you are assuming.
Maybe he took the photo down because he is feeling so torn he cannot concentrate on anything and is trying to clear his head for a while too. Maybe it was because he thinks you guys are not in that place. Remember, those were just his thoughts at that time when he looked at it, in that hour, on that day. Hes still living in your house,isn't he? Maybe he really didn't think that moving it would hurt you. It is one little item. Its ok for it to be the item that brings you down. Feel it, let it out, then pick a fun item to do later in the day to move you all to a better head space.
Sometimes you need to loose the battle to win the war.
Trusting,
When I read this the first thing I thought was...hey, he's reconnecting, he's starting to do things at the home which he hasn't done in a LONG time. That's a baby step.
Who knows why he took the picture down. Don't try to figure it out. Focus on the baby step.
Second thing I noticed...he noticed you were upset and he asked you about you. How long has it been since he did that? Probably a LONG time. Another baby step.
Maybe tomorrow you can answer that question. Maybe...and that's what you will have to figure out...it's time to start answering his questions. In ten words or less let him know why you were upset. Just say "I'm upset you took the picture down." You don't need to tell him why unless he asks. Just answer the simple question. BUT remember that just for a few seconds he focused on you. He may be testing the waters...are you able to be honest with him and not hurt him?
How do I keep from getting bitter (or staying bitter). Prayer. That's the only way. I pray everyday that I am able to forgive my husband and when I pray that prayer I think about anything that I am feeling towards him that is wrong and ask God to help me not feel that way. And time. There was a time that I had to pray that God would help me want to talk to my husband. Also, I have found the little boy in him from so many years ago that is hurting. That's the person I focus on. I don't focus on the man who my husband was for so many months...I focus on the little boy who was hurt for so long and is just now being able to express himself.
Trusting, you have had two baby steps made by your husband today. Can you focus on them instead of the thing that has you upset? Just try. AND write those baby steps down...keep track of the good things. They will start coming more and more often.
Honey,
They do wierd things that we just don't understand. After the bomb, my H put family photos UP in the living room. No he doesn't want to be M, basically wants to destroy our family, but puts up pictures for the world to see. Make sense?
Focus on the small steps. They were good. My H asked me what was wrong a month or so ago. I too couldn't answer. I was too emotional at the time. But it is something.
It hurt because you weren't ready. I took some of our pictures down, many months afterward. It was too hard for me to have them up. But there are other things that I have had to leave. It would have killed me if H did it though. I had to be ready.
You want to know a baby step that I didn't really recognize for a long time and almost forgot about, I rode in H's truck a few weeks ago. More than once. Haven't done that in a year. We always take my truck. Anyway, writing them down is good. Even if you look back later and they have not meant much to saving the M, because we just don't know, they do show that the human being is in there somewhere and sometimes THAT is what we need to remember.
Prayer. That is also what gets me through. You have no idea how much time I spend (although it is less now), just telling God, ok I'm angry about this and I am begging you to take it from me and replace it with forgivness and your love for my H cuz I just don't have it at the moment.
One thing I try to remember through all of this, when my S was almost 5, he looked at me and screamed "I hate you". At that instant, I hurt, was angry, and wanted to bawl. Then I realized, he is barely 5, what does he know? And a few minutes later, he was hugging his old mommy again. It was the moment. It was how he felt then. Yes, he got over it really quickly but it is basically the same thing. He felt it, he said it, and he moved on to the real, true, underlying stuff. Our H's are doing the same thing, minus the moving on. Or if they are, they are moving at a speed that we can't even see.
They do irrational things, things that we cannot comprehend, i.e. analyzing the whys, ifs, ands or buts will not help you for we do not know what is going through their minds. I suspect the reason he took your photo down is that it reminded him of the special day and the vows that he took at that time. The photo, more than likely, brings out the guilt even more so. Guilt is something that they have a difficult time dealing with. So, what do they do? Avoid it at all costs. Please do not take the removal of your photo personally. It's all part of the process that he's going through. I know it hurts, but he's going to be doing a lot of "strange" things in the coming weeks.
You have to find a way to remember that this is not about you at all...but about him and the trip that he is on to find himself. The sad part is that we were not invited and yet, we are still a part of it. Step back as much as you can. Accept him for who he is right now and please, please keep your expectations at zero.
I agree with Snodderly that moving the picture was probably more about his guilt at his behavior and actions than an "I don't want to be married anymore." I am in a similar situation, my MLC H is still at home as well. Things that have helped me is to realize that this IS going to be a roller coaster. There are times that I think I just can't take another minute, and I go and have a good cry and exhaust myself, and then realize that it can only go up again. Knowing there will be variations perhaps will help the 'downs' not hit you so hard.
Things that have helped me to deal:
1. Someone suggested elsewhere that the MLC is kind of a multiple personality disorder type reaction. I can see this when there are times that my H is there, and other times the alien. I have to try to be positive when my H is in control and not punish him for the aliens behavior. By giving my H strength, I hope that he will reassert himself and not let the alien have full control.
2. Since this is a mental illness, do I give up on my H just because he is 'sick in the head'? What if he was schizophrenic? Or had a tumor or some other illness that was changing his behavior? Would I be more likely to stand by him then? So why would I give up on him now?
3. Actions always speak louder than words. My H is a good year into his MLC and he is still here. No matter how bad he is telling OW that his marriage is, he has not moved forward into breaking things off with me. That is something that the OW has to realize as well. That she is only good for 'free time' - and I hope it is damaging her self esteem.
4. Someone posted on another thread that they didn't want to end up as a practice marriage so that some other woman could enjoy their husband once he was all straightened out. As hurtful as this is, I think of this as the 'in sickness and in health, as well as the 'for better and for worse'. I try to imagine what our 25th wedding anniversary will be like. We will look back and ruefully think of all of the hurt and change, and how we are stronger together for having lived through it. (now if he would just get through it!) Try to have positive thoughts, and remember that people live up to expectations of them.
Faith ~
I didn't see your post till just now...
How are you doing today? Better I hope!
We need to remember how crazy they are right now.
About a year ago, I bought my H a new wallet. A really nice one. Do you know what he did? When he transfered over to the new wallet, he took out the pictures of us.
Believe me I know it hurts. We are dodging bullets all the time. Remember it was only a week ago I found that awesome love letter on my pillow.
If it gives you any comfort, remember this...
We both still live with our H (BUT)
Mine filed for D nine months ago.
Continue to be STRONG Faith.
It's all we can do for now.
AND
Pray... I talk to GOD all day long. HE has his hand on you, HE is in control of the situation. Put more TRUST in HIM than you ever have before.
It is really emotionally draining. Somtimes I think about being on a Tropical Island somewhere, relaxing and sipping something yummy on the beach. Then drifting off to sleep to the sound of the waves. Ah..... Paradise!
Wanna go?
Makes me wonder if they would have done this for us. Standing by them. Mine would have been too lazy and intolerant of the situation. My things would have been in a super big pile in the front yard.
MJ
Thank you all for your responses. I do feel better today. I have to admit, I would rather believe he took it down out of guilt rather than a direct reflection of me.
Interestingly, right after I posted last night he knocked on the door and brought me a drink (when was the last time THAT happened?) and asked me again what was wrong. I just said in the whole scheme of things it wasn't important. He thought it must be important if I was so upset about it. Anyway, he didn't get the full answer. He did give me a nice hug.
I have a hard time sometimes focusing on the baby steps. Him being aware of things being wrong with me is fairly recent, and he pretty much always asks if I seem "off" (must be doing a good job of being happy most of the time!) and seems to really want to know like "my" H would, rather than pre and post bomb when he would ask (meanly) so he could have more fuel for his fire, something else I was doing/thinking/saying wrong.
The fact that he was even cleaning up that space is a step, I think, since he hasn't touched it for months. And months. He is normally organized and a neat freak and the last few months has been the polar opposite at home anyway (think teenage slob), so to see him spending chunks of time organizing and cleaning, even if it is only in his space, is good I think.
He has been home most of the time when not at work for probably close to about a month now. Granted, he is usually hiding in his cave. He interacts much, much better with the kids as of late. Yet with me he now seems even a bit more withdrawn, but maybe that is my perception because of expectations. That is why it is so confusing.
And as you said, FHS, if he was sick with anything else I wouldn't leave him so why would I now? When I am able to remember that it is easier to keep it in perspective.
I try to focus on and be happy when I see H and not be too bent out of shape by the alien.
I have to admit, the prayer time has been less lately for me for whatever reason, so I need to step that up to maintain my center. Thanks for the reminders.
MJ- sitting on the beach with a drink - I would LOVE to be doing that right now. When do we go?
Oh, did I forget to mention the cute Cabana Boys?!
We will go soon...
But we need to round up some of the other girls first!
There are some over on the Newcomers forum.
COOL
MJ
Quick journaling -
Yesterday during the sermon at church the pastor made a quick joking, lighthearted comment about midlife crisis (don't really remember what it was in reference to) and the thought that went through my head at that moment is how it is so not a joke. Most people (that I know anyway) have absolutely no clue what it is really about, and I was included in that until a few months ago.
Of course, we are all allowed a little levity here - anything to lighten the pain a bit that we are all going through.
Hey Faith ~
I agree, I also thought Mid Life Crisis was just a joke, an excuse for men to go off and do anything they pleased.
Well, that's partly true. They do go off and do anything they please, but it's not a joke, it's so much more than that. It's a mental sickness.
But why did mine have to come down with it!
MJ
Hi, Cat-
Doing pretty well so far this week. I have my PMA on for the most part, as long as I am able to stop trying to figure out the crazy stuff. Because I can't.
How are you doing?
Okay, so I have been thinking a lot lately about setting goals, and how to go about doing this realistically with an MLCer. One goal I have thought of is to watch a TV show (or DVD) together which we have not done since pre-bomb sometime. I am tossing the idea around in my mind of asking him about it tonight since one of our common interest shows is starting back up today. However, I am not sure I have lowered my expectations to zero enough to do so. The old adage "it doesn't hurt to ask" doesn't apply here as it might very well hurt if he says no.
I guess we will see where I am a few hours from now. . . I really don't want to push him away at all but he has been so much friendlier and seems more relaxed lately. Maybe I should just leave well enough alone for now and postpone it for another time.
Faith ~
So how did it go? Did you watch a show/movie together?
Were you able to ask him?
I have found that now when H and I are watching a movie together that I am uncomfortable. Probably worried if he will start R talk. Spewing, or justifying. I think I am also uncomfortable because of what has gone on and things are not the same. There is a third party if you know what I mean.
I know the rejection is terrible. Just last night I was making hamburgers for dinner. I asked H if he wanted one and he said no I want hot dogs. He had his hot dogs, and I ate my delicious hamburger. I also made fried potatoes w/onions, and they smelled so good. I asked him if he wanted some and he said no. He then came into the kitchen and popped a potato into the microwave. WOW! Hotdogs with a baked potato.
YUM
Do something for Faith today!
I am going to have an MJ Day!
(((HUGS)))
MJ
MJ -
No, I didn't ask him. He didn't make it home for dinner (all about expectations - he had been coming home for dinner the past few weeks after not for so long - so him not coming irritated me). Anyway, maybe one of these days.
BUT he just brought me lunch. I was floored. Hasn't done that in about a 100 years it feels like.
Mmmmmm . . . hot dog with baked potato. Interesting combo!
Trying to figure out something to do for myself today.
Faith ~
I would classify H bringing home lunch as a toddler step!
Awesome!
MJ
I agree. He hasn't done that in a really, really long time. And to stop by home in the middle of the day, too . . .
When he knew I would most likely be home and no kids around to use as an excuse. . .
Faith ~
What is going on in your world?
You have been really quiet lately.
Thanks for the comforting words to me on my thread. ((hugs))
Although I am home today, there is a PEACE about me.
Let H run around crazily going after his D. It's like giving a message to skank " See! see what I'm doing! I'll D her, so don't go anywhere!"
Whatever!
Have you ever gone into the MLC archive? I have been doing a lot of reading there lately. There is really a lot of valuable insight to be found there.
MJ
Have you ever gone into the MLC archive? I have been doing a lot of reading there lately. There is really a lot of valuable insight to be found there.
MJ
There is, Those resources are a great weekend sometime...
Pay close attention to BND when you venture.
She is an amazing woman, with great insight.
She is the model of Dignity, Honor, and Grace for me...
Full of HopeandFaith.....;)
Thank you BND....
MJ -
I completely agree with Mach on this one. I have read through a lot in the archives and BND has great posts, both past and present.
And if the skank is really pressuring him, let her pressure. We all know how much they love that. Just maybe she will cause the relationship to implode.
((((hugs))))
I have been reading BND posts! She is one of the great ones!
*BND if you are still lurking, have you read my thread on the Newcomers forum? It is titled " Who is the stranger living in my house?" I would love your insight!
* Sorry Faith for hijacking your thread.
I was just so surprised to see BND pop up here, and I wanted to catch her while I could.
The poster I have been reading through lately is momof2girls. I can really associate with her.
MJ
((((hugs))))
I'll take 'em Chica !!!
How are ya ?
Hijack away, MJ!
Thanks Faith...
When you get a chance, zoom on over and find out what MLC H has done now. This time it's funny!
What have you seen your H do that has been funny through all this?
MJ
Too many things to count but I have a twisted sense of humor so...
I realized today is the six month anniversary of the bomb. So do I get him a card . . . flowers . . . or?
No,
But you COULD do that for yourself.....
Definately treat yourself to something fun...
A pedicure......
A new pair of shoes.....
Something just for you!!!
MLC is hell.
A little pick me up goes a long long way!!
Hang in there!!
Sad, but I didn't even think about getting anything for myself. BUT it is a good idea. I thought I might feel horrible today but don't. I can't believe it has been six months. Then again, it feels like forever.
And to think - I thought he would "snap out of it" five and a half months ago. Yeesh.
Actually, I did buy myself breakfast so that is one treat for the day anyway!
Hey TF,
One step forward everyday.....
BND....you have a shoe fetish....LOL
I think I might need some new hiking boots....Hmmmm
Faith ~
I know the days just drag on don't they?
I have decided to do special things for myself more and more lately. There was a time, when H didn't come home after work much so I would not eat. Now I make myself special dinners all the time and if H is home he can partake. Since I no longer buy H clothes or other things I know he would like, I spend the money on me! I have learned to spoil myself rotten through all this. Why not, he isn't doing it!
Treat yourself girl! You deserve it !!
I will be coming upon a year next month.
I too thought this would have been over with eleven months ago!
The question that keeps coming up for me is...
Would he have done this for me?
I don't think so. He would have thrown me out that day!
MJ
TF,
Did you get the email? Sorry for the delay.
Did you survive yesterday? I bet you did, although you haven't posted yet. Just a day. That is what they eventually become. Something I have prayed for is that the details of all of this be taken from me. This and other things. I want to remember the lessons, but I don't need to remember the details. It appears to be happening for me. There has been a lot of talk about anniversaries around here lately, and I had to really think hard to remember more than month/year. Just a thought.
Take care of yourself.
Cat,
I did get the email - thanks! Haven't had a chance to respond yet.
I was okay yesterday. It did end up being just a day. I just can't believe it had been that long. I am hoping that eventually I won't remember that red letter date but it could take awhile.
MJ -
I have often wondered if H would do the same for me - stick around if I was acting this way and I really don't know. This is truly the hardest thing I have ever done and I don't think I could go through a round two later on down the road.
Hey,
Enough of this "down" time here....
You know, 6 months may be a long time when you sit and think about what will happen 6 months from now, but if you look back?
It's not that long....
So question for ya.....
If I asked you to walk across the United States, you would probably think about the trip.....Right ?
Tell me to go and.......
But if you took one step at a time, and thought about each step instead of the journey as a whole, soon you would be well on your way....
At the end of the trip, you would look back and say....That wasn't so bad...
One step at a time TF, One day at a time, sometimes one hour at a time, and there are times when it is one minute at a time.....
Today is NOT the day I quit...Tomorrow isn't either, but I'll decide that tomorrow....
Then start over tomorrow...
Funny that my bomb date falls on the Birthday of a very dear friend of mine....Didn't know him two years ago, but he has become my mentor through this.....
That was the day my eyes were opened, so essentially, that is my Birthdate now too....
BTW ?
Happy Birthday Jack3Beans !
Life is how YOU decide you will handle it......
You're right . . . step by step. I don't know why I feel so much more down today. Just having a pity party I guess. I DO have the strength and stubborness to stick this out, at least for today and probably tomorrow as well as you say. I don't know . . . given the choice of walking across the country and this . . . walking that distance seems a heck of a lot easier.
I also just had to chase my escape artist dog around the neighborhood AGAIN and every time she does that I swear it will be the last time I go get her . . . yet I still go. Every time. I guess I am not willing to give up on her either.
Okay, gonna go put my PMA back on.
Wow, I sure had a bad last few days personally. Nothing has changed or is different in my situation, I guess just the loneliness of living with someone in MLC had just taken its toll and I am just tired. I really just miss my H. And the uncertainty of if he will ever come out of it/if he will be "back" has gotten to me. I have spent the weekend trying to shake it off.
YET, when my H has been home (he had a lot of work related stuff this weekend so not home too much) I am seeing more glimpses of my "old" H and what could be considered baby steps. So why doesn't that make me feel better?
Okay, gotta go figure out how to get myself out of the dumps. I miss the happier/calmer/more positive "new" me!
YET, when my H has been home (he had a lot of work related stuff this weekend so not home too much) I am seeing more glimpses of my "old" H and what could be considered baby steps. So why doesn't that make me feel better?
Because...
MLC is unpredictable...
MLC has no guarantees...
MLC is out of control...
So why doesn't that make me feel better?
Because through all of this, you have developed an understanding of what MLC really is, and you know that there is a lot more path to walk....For BOTH of you..
That is why it is important to focus on what YOU know and what you do.....
If you put clothes in the Washing Machine, Do you stand there and watch it to make sure it spins ?
I would say no....
So leave the Maytag repairman alone and let him spin...
Whatcha got planned for YOU this week ?
Faith ~
I'm sorry you are feeling so down (((hugs)))
It is emotionally draining. AND oh so lonely. I can relate.
You see them at home, and wonder why doesn't he just throw his arms around you and tell you it's all gonna be OK.
That he's finally realized what he has done, and he will do anything to make it up to you.
I keep hoping one day I'll find him kneeling by my bed when I awake with tears in his eyes....
Don't forget where your focus needs to be!
Your good... Your strong!
MJ
Thanks for your responses. I spent some time today ruminating. I feel much better now.
Cat, that unpredictability is awful. But it is what it is I guess.
Mach, I think you were absolutely right - I know that the road ahead is still so long, the more I have learned about MLC. I kinda laugh now thinking about some things that looked like "baby steps" 2-3 months ago and thought maybe things were looking up and yet here we are. Wherever that is. I do find it harder to keep my expectations at 0 when the good stuff happens.
MJ, the loneliness can be exhausting. I do miss the H that would be the one to say everything would be okay and would do his best to make sure it was. Maybe someday again . . .
I am spending too much time focusing on him lately. I am trying to think of something great to do for me this week. Hmmmmm.
MJ,
I think you touched on something that probably the women feel a bit more than then men. We do want them to tell us it will all be ok. Isn't that what men are supposed to do? Fix things and make it better?
As women of this generation, we want to believe that we don't NEED men like women in the past did. We have our legal rights, to vote, own property, etc... Almost equal pay, and we see women all over the place living single lives and thriving.
But, I do believe that we still have that underlying desire to be taken care of. To be able to expect our H's to do that. Be strong, be the head of the house. It hurts and is scary when that goes away. For me it was...
Sorry to my male friends for that little look into the thoughts of a woman...You guys are still all wonderful.
Anyway, TF, yes lots of us have lost our focus lately. I think we get to a good place and it is easy to let it slip just a bit.
Mach says habits are harder to break than addictions and I know he is right.
So go easy on yourself, mind yourself, and take the next forward step.
TF,
I will tell you this, and this is a pattern that i have noticed here.
Around the 5-7 month mark, there is a period of time where we find another source of anger from within ourselves as standers...
It usually centers around acceptance that there really isn't a magic pill to fix this.
The reality of what is happening slaps us in the face.
That is the time when we really start to detach. Don't let that build inside of you too much, it is normal.
What you will find is that, after some hard thinking, you will realize that what is going on IS a gift to you also, and you will soon find a peace from within yourself that allows you to take another step forward for you.
A LOT of people don't make it through this next step you are looking at. This is the time when your vows may become skewed and you say that you deserve better and walk away being done.
YOU have decisions that you can make, and you realize that for the first time in a while.
This will be a time when you take another look into the mirror, and only then, if you decide to continue this path, will your changes "officially" become for you , and not to fix the old marriage.
This is a defining period for you and your relationship.
Yes....You do deserve better, but guess what ?
So does he....You BOTH deserve your vows....
Sickness AND health...
Spending a nickel here.....But..
It's easy to be good with things when it is all puppy dogs and rainbows.....the other is the HARD stuff...
It's okay to take some time for you and reflect, it is normal and neccessary....DO IT
You'll never regret doing the REAL work....
We are all with you TF...
Prayers
Cat,
That realization that I am for now the head of the household was scary for me at first, but I have been doing fine with it. Who knew I was capable of it? That is something that I am actually very proud of. I am way stronger than I ever thought I was, and am learning to do things I never thought I would (i.e. little repairs around the house, getting ready to possibly tackle some bigger ones).
Deep down I still wish he was still the one taking care of all of us, but maybe he will be again. In the meantime, I am doing what I can.
I am getting my focus back. Things are not so bad. I can do this!
Mach,
Seriously, how did you get to be so wise in all this MLC stuff? Your analysis of the 5-7 month mark is exactly where I am (timewise also). That mantra that has been going through my head the past couple of weeks that I have been trying to SMACK out is that I deserve better than this. It is such a counterproductive thought at this point, yet it is so hard for me to make the thought go away.
I am definitely angry in ways I haven't been before. But when I step back and look at it from outside of my head, I realize that if I was in a crisis (of any kind) I would be devastated if he didn't want to stick around.
He does deserve for me to stick with my vows. So do the kids.
Interestingly, this "anger" phase for me has also made me reexamine myself the past day or two and the changes I have made and still need to. I do like who I am becoming. I am frustrated that some things I wanted to try/change/do I haven't yet. Mostly my fault.
I cannot tell you what a Godsend this board has been for me - all the advice and support has been absolutely invaluable. Thanks all!!!
Mach,
Seriously, how did you get to be so wise in all this MLC stuff?
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.....;p
Also, I CHOSE to dig in an understand HER path as well as mine...
I am definitely angry in ways I haven't been before. But when I step back and look at it from outside of my head, I realize that if I was in a crisis (of any kind) I would be devastated if he didn't want to stick around.
He does deserve for me to stick with my vows. So do the kids.
If you are gonna "dig in "......Do the work, you won't regret it.
Use your anger as a shield-not a sword.
Interestingly, this "anger" phase for me has also made me reexamine myself the past day or two and the changes I have made and still need to. I do like who I am becoming. I am frustrated that some things I wanted to try/change/do I haven't yet. Mostly my fault.
YOU are the only thing stopping you right now....
I cannot tell you what a Godsend this board has been for me - all the advice and support has been absolutely invaluable. Thanks all!!!
You thank ALL of us by Paying it Forward......
TIF
I`ve had my head up my butt these past few days and haven`t peeped out to help you! SOrry!
Ha! Love what Mach said:
"If you put clothes in the Washing Machine, Do you stand there and watch it to make sure it spins ?"
Really sums up how we can let ourselves fall into the trap of waiting and watching our MLCer for teeny signs of change!
Glad to see you`re coming on with the Man Jobs!
My VBF reminded me yesterday while I was whining that H is in pain too! Yes, they are. AND they think-some of the time at least-that their anger is justified too. They believe they are right.
Knowing that might make your heartache easier to bear.
Hang on in there, girl!
FG -
Thanks for stopping by!
I know you have big stuff on your heart and mind these days.
It is always a good reminder that they are in pain, too. It does make it a bit easier to bear, knowing that their turmoil is what causes the nutty behavior.
Thanks for checking in on me!
Mach,
I know, I gotta do the work. The good news is I want to. Most of the time.
Paying it forward - trying to do that but I feel like I am not so good at the advice, not yet anyway. Guess I just need to be better about posting my support (which is there).
TF,
That is how it starts, support. Then as you have really internalized what you have learned, you can share with others.
Take the step.
TF,
It is really about that. What you have learned about MLC, it can be just that....
This is a scary time, when you really start healing and you have to trust that the changes you have made are real...
That is where you are....Changes come in time...But don't underestimate the ones that you have already made...
You'll know when it is time for your first step with that...
Giving back heals as well....
I know for me personality-wise (self esteem, too, I am sure) I have always felt like others have more to offer. In this case, I am not as "wise" about MLC so feel like others would give better advice. I know I am relatively new at all this so that will come.
BUT interestingly at a time when my self esteem "should" be shot to he!! it is better than it has ever been, probably because I have finally realized that it is not and should not be tied to what others (i.e. my H) think or say.
The "new" me has realized I have more to offer others than I thought and that is where I am trying to find ways to put that into action (esp in Real Life), to get out of my little microcosm and get involved in something bigger than me. It is just a matter of maybe even "faking" confidence to make it happen. And finding my niche.
Heck, if I can survive this MLC crap surely I can find ways to make a difference.
I'm thinkin you have already gotten involved in something bigger than you....
Your experiences count TF.
Thanks.
There is the realization, too, that while MLCers are so similar with the same script, they are all different and everyone's situation is different. So my insight may match up better to some situations than others since my experience is "closer" if that makes any sense. (I.e. H still living at home, etc.)
TF,
Sometimes the best advice is being quiet and just listening. Many people don't really want or need the advice, they just want to know that some one is hearing them.
On the pain subject..yes the MLC'ers feel pain. Maybe even more so than the WAS's. Example-My wife is very emotional and during a conversation a month or so ago discussing her moving out she broke down in tears and said "This hurt so bad! I don't want to hurt you or the kids, but I hate being here so much...I am so confused".....so yes they do feel pain. Maybe not as visible as my wife, but they do.
I love what Mach said above...it is right on for the stage you are at. There are a lot of ways to handle it...the choices are yours to make and live with.
Morning sweetie...
We got a cold front in this morning. I opened the door and it was cold and dry instead of hot and humid. What a refreshing change.
Now you will laugh, it is 68 degrees out. I just love the fall.
Ha! 60 degrees here Cat and its HOT!
Not the only hot thing around here either!(FG smiles smugly...)Lol!
LFW, Thanks for your reply. You're right - support can be just that - support - not even advice.
Thanks to all. I have been feeling so much better the last couple of days and am working through things. Nothing is a quick fix and obviously with MLC it could take a loooooong time but at least I have a better idea of where I am going and what my goals are. Until the next time I need to reevaluate.
Hey Faith ~
You seem to have a lot of support over here.
I'm thinking maybe I will switch over to the MLC forum.
The only thing that's holding me back, is having to rewrite my story over here.
If your H hasn't asked for a D, then the ground you are standing on is still pretty solid. You have plenty of sand left in your hour glass timer.
I on the other hand feel like Dorothy in the Wizard of OZ.
There is much more sand on the bottom of the timer for me.
MJ
MJ,
Don't forget that God is bigger than sand in an hourglass. Could you post over here with a brief intro note and a link to your current thread?
I know I am still on pretty solid ground, at least for now. But this is a crazy ride! My H has never officially brought up the D word and only really hinted at it once or twice months ago. I am sure he still has that in his mind as an option but so far no movement and no hints of such. I think typical of an MLCer he doesn't know what he wants!
Mj,
Copy and paste your sitch and add a link. There are some great people here.
TF,
You sound wonderful.
Have a great night!
Faith ~
I would if I could but I can't!
I am the internet queen, but when it comes to anything like linking, cutting, and pasting, I'm lost!
MJ
MJ,
You sound like me technologically challenged. LOL
Copy--left click and hold at the beginning of what you want to copy. Drag to highlight all that you want to copy. Lift your finger when you have it all highlighted. Then right click and choose copy from the menu.
Then go to where you want to put it, set the cursor and right click and choose paste. It should appear there. Simple
don't worry about the link, we aren't afraid of asking questions.
MJ -
Even if you can't get all that figured out, just go ahead and post a note even if it is short and come and join us over here in MLC world!
Hey Faith & Cat ~
Thanks for helping me out!
I feel like one of the students in my classroom!
They all know more about the computer than I do!
Should I copy all the pages, or just the intro?
So much has happened since I first posted.
Thanks
MJ
Hey, MJ -
Maybe just copy page one and and then a brief summary of what has happened up until now. Actually, if you can figure out how to copy, when you go to your thread, go to the web address at the top and copy that and paste into your new post - that will give you a link people can access.
Are you on FB at all?
MJ,
Go on, start your own thread. I do read yours but its hard to find when I have time to post.
TF,
You do offer good support, just chating to others who are going through what we all are makes such a difference, especially when one is having a tough day.
I also find that in order to reply to others threads, I need to collect my thoughts and actually think of what helped me, I get just as much benefit from replying to others as rambling on my own thread. Takes the focus off me me me (not that you only talk about you)!
SR,
I know exactly what you mean about taking the focus of me, me, me! It is easy to get so sucked into our own situations that we can get lost in it - not healthy!
Yet today I feel down. Just venting here. I have actually been doing quite well the past few days, keeping positive, feeling good, etc. I try so hard to not focus on H of course but then he has done some little things the past few days he hasn't done in months and months (positive things) so then I get to thinking . .. then I get slapped in the face with reality again. I feel utterly exhausted today and it is only Monday. I think the emotional stress finally gets to me once in awhile.
Has anyone else noticed their MLCer being extra tired? My H has just seemed drained and exhausted the past week or two, uncharacteristically so. Maybe he is just coming down with something but just keeps saying how tired he is. I can't imagine how he couldn't be just with the work of having to have such tight control over his own little world but hasn't shown that exhaustion before. He seems to function okay at work (I guess) but then crashes. This is the same man who for months pre and post bomb was suriving and even seemed to be thriving on no more than 5 hours of sleep pretty much every night for weeks and weeks on end. He was so manic - scary. The lack of sleep alone would knock anyone loopy!
I know, I know. Just gotta let him be.
I think the stress from all this can be exhausting no matter who you are.
HUGS
I could use a nap!
Faith ~
OMG yours too!
Mine went to bed the other night around 7ish. I thought he was probably going to get in bed and read, but soon after I heard him snoring loudly.
The mental stress is hard on us also. It's like waking up everyday and staring in your own scary movie. I think it's the emotional abuse also. The analyzing alone wears me out. And I know it makes no sense to do that. My friend said I should pray for GOD to give me blinders.
Hang in there, that's all we can do!
MJ
MJ and Faith,
OMG with the sleeping and exhaustion. On his off days, my H has not spent more than 4-6 hours up and out of bed. Although I know he is awake more in his room, he has been just too tired to be up. They are avoiding the interaction and the thinking. It is part of the process as they move down their road.
Take it as a break for you. For your brain. We all analzye probably way too much. But in time, you can find a place where it doesn't wipe you out. Where you can see it, note it, and go on with your day.
The blinders need to be off IMO. Having a live in is really hard and really trying on everyone involved. But if the blinders are on, then when something is revealed, it is like going back to bomb day. With them off, you can see, know, and hopefully maintain yourself. For me, I feel it is a necessary part to my process. If I didn't see it every day, I don't know if I would believe it is what it is. I don't know if I would still be standing. I don't know if I wouldn't simply hate H for all of this.
MJ, still waiting for your thread...LOL
MJ,
Where is your thread now ?
TF,
It is one of the things that they go through, soon you may see quite the opposite of that...
To quote a good friend?
What's going on here ? Who the hell knows....
MJ's thread is in newcomers.
Last night I had the blessing (and yes I realize it is a blessing) to have a "normal" H around for the most part. We were able to joke around a bit, I brought up an issue with S and he not only listened and engaged but stepped in to help with it. That is HUGE. For months - nothing. Now I feel like I can tell him about stuff like that and he does seem to listen, though really hasn't done anything to help out much. I still bring things up sparingly and it is nothing I can't handle myself (having done so for about a year now totally on my own) but they are things a dad should be involved with and he seems a bit more willing now.
Last night was enough to fill up my tank enough to keep going with a smile on my face. For today anyway.
And yes I KNOW this is far from over but normalcy for a change was nice. And I do realize that I am fortunate.
I also came to the realization that I am not walking on eggshells so much around him anymore and relaxing more around him. I am not sure if that is the confidence I have in me or if it is because things are a bit better overall or both, but it is a good thing.
Hey Faith ~
Sounds like you've been having some good days lately!
I believe GOD shows us positive encounters sometimes to keep us standing when we feel like giving up.
Lately for me, when H is sitting in the same room with me I get so uncomfortable that I go find something to do.
Last night for example, H was on his computer, with the TV on, in the den. All of a sudden he turned them off, and came to sit with me in the livingroom. I was so afraid he wanted to talk about R, or spew something , that I got up and got ready for bed. I felt bad that I left him sitting out there alone, but then I thought about the nightmare he's put me through. Maybe he had something nice to say, maybe he didn't want to say anything at all, but I wasn't taking any chances.
How do you keep from feeling uncomfortable around H?
How do you avoid R talk if he starts to bring it up?
* For anyone who wants to read my thread *
It's called...
"Who Is This Stranger Living In My House?"
on the Newcomers forum.
I haven't had time to figure out how to move it here yet.
Even though I had some good friends giving me good instructions
Sorry for the hijack Faith.
MJ
MJ-
I never mind a "hijack."
I did have an abnormally good night with H last night and it was after a day when I felt completely down and discouraged for whatever reason. I think I let a little thing throw me again.
To be honest, I don't feel so uncomfortable around H anymore. It is like we are roommates that get along well. He does not seem angry (outwardly anyway) at me anymore and also seems a lot more relaxed. Maybe because I am. I am trying my best to make home a "safe" place for him to be so he will feel okay to be here. And he also has not brought up anything remotely like R talk for months now, and I am steering well away from anything like that so that hasn't been an issue, fortunately. I would love to say that he must be confused and not know what he wants but at least a part of me thinks he is just comfortable now - I don't ask much, he comes and goes without answering to anyone, he really has no responsibilities at home (well, he takes none), etc. I am sure some would disagree with me for "letting" things be the way they are but I am trying to keep pressure off so he doesn't feel the need to head for the door.
Things are actually okay for what it is.
If you can't figure out how to do a link, just post a brief summary note here and start a new thread if you want.
Hope you are having a good week so far!
faith,
That you are able to keep the pressure of is really good IMO. As far as "letting" things be, well the fact that he is still at home and you have reached a comfort level even sometimes is great. Sounds like it's working. Don't fix it if it ain't broke.
HUGS
mlj,
check your thread
I believe GOD shows us positive encounters sometimes to keep us standing when we feel like giving up.
Yes He does just that.
TF,
You are doing what is working for you right now. That is what is important even if some people don't agree with it. There is no way to speed this all up, so sometimes just maintaining peace and a friendly environment is the BEST thing you can do.
You sound good.
Thanks Grace.
Do you have a current thread? I can't seem to find one. Yes, things are pretty liveable right now so that makes this bearable.
Cat, I am feeling good for the most part and feel like I am finally living this detaching thing. I have been doing some reflecting this week and that statement I have seen once in awhile on here is such a good reminder - really, what is a couple years in the scope of a lifetime?
And I have looked back to the way things were around the bomb (6+ months ago) and even before, and things are better - he is not being mean and picking fights which is a big improvement. I no longer walk around with that constant ache in the pit of my stomach on the verge of tears. In fact, life otherwise is enjoyable! Of course I still have moments/days of being sad, mourning what is lost but that is natural and necessary. Now I can pick myself up pretty fast from it.
TF.....
I can't speak for my friend Gracie
here.....but most of us that have been doing this for a while tend to not have them....
For most of us in MLC territory, most of what we do is try to help others understand what they are dealing with.
Occasionally, someone will start a new one just to have a "home" here.
I've never had one.
But that doesn't mean you shouldn't post what you are dealing with. It really does help you to get those feelings out there...and VENT..
Speaking of threads.....MJ, just start one here and I'm sure someone here will link up for you....
MLC is a different animal than the other threads here....
Dealing with the craziness is mind boggling...
The goal is to become survivors, regardless the outcome....
Hey Mach!
Faith,
I don't have a current thread. I just come and hang out some.
I did the H at home thing for 15 months post bomb. It's a hard row to hoe.
You're doing good.
You can always find me on the alt if you want to
TF,
The reason I started mine again was simply to have a "home" as Mach put it. But it is a playplace and a home for all really IMO. As you see, I don't go there too much. LOL
You are doing great and have come a long way. Just remember, the most important thing to remember, is that this IS a long road, and just like our wonderful MLCer's, we go up and down too. It's ok, just the process. The key is not getting stuck for too long.
MJ,
Join us over here. We will take care of you as best we can getting you all linked up. Not me cuz I don't know how but someone will...
Hey Mach!
Hi Gracie ! How goes it ?
You can always find me on the alt if you want to
Hmmmmmmm
I wouldn't be as far along as I am without the help of all of you! And truly knowledge is power. If I hadn't done all the reading I had I would probably still be lost and would NOT be putting up with this stuff. You all give such great advice, too. So thanks.
Originally Posted By: Grace_O
You can always find me on the alt if you want to
Hmmmmmmm
Got it Mach - thanks.
Hi Gracie ! How goes it ?
Sideways. My preferred mode of transport
Sideways. My preferred mode of transport
Ahhhhh, A great problem to have matey....
Beats the devil out of backwards or my nemisis....facedown
Beats the devil out of backwards or my nemisis....facedown
Yea, but dam, that was good Rum.....
Is there really such a thing as good Rum? It can't be that I ever drank so much of it I no longer have a taste for it
I prefer a good Scotch or Tequilla these days....
There is Gracie....
I'd post a link but.....
Yea, that didn't work too well the last time.
Not that I would decline either of your choices either....
I'd post a link but.....
Yea, that didn't work too well the last time.
<laughing> well, don't do that again.
Okay, just venting. It is a good thing today is over because today I was tired and "done." Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.
I still have those moments. When it's no longer a moment, well, I guess something profound has changed.
I hope tomorrow is better for you too.
Do you have any plans for the weekend?
Hey, Grace. Today is a bit better. So far. I honestly think it is partly the weather - yesterday was gray and today isn't. Funny, but weather never used to affect my moods like this. Nothing specific yesterday happened/changed/whatever to throw me off.
It is just so wierd. In some ways I am seeing more and more of my old H in little things, yet the crazy is still there and so it makes the "normal" hard to see in a way. Make sense? It is just hard to reconcile the normal with the crazy, I guess. Yesterday I was just missing the great guy I married. Yet I can see glimpses of him in there lately.
Last night he actually apologized for something (nearly fell out of my chair) - haven't heard those words in forever! It was a little thing and something that has been a normal pattern of behavior which made it even stranger that he said anything.
No big plans for the weekend - hoping to just hang out with the kids and watch movies, etc. Do you have fun planned?
So what is your current status, if you don't mind saying? If you do, that's okay, I get it.
TIF
Just checking in on you. Glad you`re having better days. Its hard not to let our MLC spouse affect us.That`s probably the bit I struggle with most.
Mach said "The goal is to become survivors, regardless the outcome...."
Isn`t that just so true? Wow! So, no matter what happens we still get to be better people.
That whole be still,stay calm thing(when I`m calm enough to be able to do it!) really helps me listen to my heart,be more loving towards everyone and live the life I want.
Here`s to your weekend, TIF!
Thanks for checking in on me, FG! Overall, doing okay. Actually pretty good most days, though thinking a lot and trying to process through everything. It makes my head hurt!
And then of course today I was unable to STHU and just had to say something I couldn't just let go. It was just a piece of crazy I was tired of. Anyway, it turned in to a kinda yucky conversation BUT it did show me how truly, truly unhappy/empty/far from normal he really is. I did say a couple of things to him taht are probably very anti MLC-DB politically correct but I just did. Oh, well. It just makes me sad to see how he is now.
Tf,
Sometmes you do. Overall though how did he react?
I know. Sometimes things just need to be said - I couldn't keep my mouth shut. First he seemed mad and I was "accusing" him of something (which I was, just is a strong word for it). Then he was just sad - teary in fact. He is so unhappy. It is killing me. And yet I can't say to him what I want to about where happiness truly lies. He has to figure that out.
On some level he knows where happiness comes from. It's justy that right now, he is so miserable, he's lost.
I have had a couple of those "couldn't keep my mouth shut" moments. Do they do irrepairable damage? I don't know. As long as you're not vicious, I think it falls under the category of things that need to be said. Just work at keeping them few and far between.
I know how hard that can be with them at home. Ever vigilant is the name of that tune.
Take care sweetie.
HUGS
I did say the things I said fairly nicely, I think. For sure once we got past the initial "accusation." And boy did I get projected on then - all over me. Blech. I hope I didn't do an irreparable damage. We shall see.
Lost is a good word to describe what I saw today - that and utterly miserable. He has been fairly good at covering that up but it is coming through more and more. Regardless of how he may have rewritten history, I do know him really well.
The good news is it has been awhile since I have had my own spew. Hopefully I can keep my mouth shut for awhile again.
It gets easier with time. Even when they are at home. In some ways having my H at home was harder than it has been with him gone (at least for me, not for D's). Having said that though, I think there is alot of positive that can happen with them there.
It's hard to see them so miserable and not have the ability to do anything to change it. Which is where doing things for yourself is so invaluable.
Do you have any goals that you're working towards?
I did tell him I hate seeing him this way. Maybe that was bad. But it is true.
I do have goals I am working towards, though definitely in a rut with most of those now - life seems to be getting in the way.
Can I be nosey and ask you what your goals are TIF?
Only from the point of view that when we post em up it helps clarify them and also pushes us to get results.
One of the best tips I got was from SR
Shut the **** up!
Its my mantra!
TIF,
Sweetie, sometimes thing just have to be said. If you can say it with love, convey the message in as nonblaming a way as possible, and are true to what you feel and you need, then really no irreparable damage can be done.
It is when we start to realize that standing up for ourselves is empowering, that we can start to shift within. Accepting what we can and can not live with, doing what we need to for ourselves, knowing that that will ultimately be the best thing, that our forward motion begins to feel a whole lot less scary.
Is the goal to be cruel or unfair to our S? No, I don’t think so.
One of the steps that I believe we all go through is the realization that the only person we can truly make happy in this world is ourselves. Also that the actions of others to affect us only have the power that we give to it. It may feel selfish to do some of the GAL, detatching, etc… things that we talk about here. But when you are ready to give yourself the permission to do those things, as you realize that you are NOT hurting anyone by focusing on your own happiness and that it is not dependent on others, it becomes easier…
You are going through the process and growing in strength every day.
It is ok to do that.
Have a wonderful day.
TF,
One of the things I have learned about a live-in is....
We LBS'ers of a live-in, means that we have way more interaction with them through this...
And that we don't have the oppurtunity to be on a stage just once in a while, so they see ALL of our emotions as well as theirs.
Most MLC'ers don't have a firm grasp about what they are thinking, let alone process what they see in us.
For me...I realized that it had to be okay to show that emotion if you feel it, just also make sure you show how you are dealing with it differently than you had in the past too...
I was always the one who held everything in, and said very little about what was bothering me. Not anymore....
In the beginning of that, I kinda did that just to 180.
Then it started to feel really good for ME to do that, and now, it is a part of sho I have become and don't really worry about when or how, cause I know I am not the same person...
Once you start doing that, you will realize and YOU will see the changes that you have made for you, and then you will trust yourself enough to just be you.....cause the person that you have become, will SHINE anytime, through good and bad.
Is this about what you said ? OR HOW you said it ?
Is this a boundary that you need to set ?
I think that depends on where you started from too. I never shut up previously. Just listening was good for a few months to allow me to listen to what H was saying and let me think abut what was actually important to me. It also gave me the chance to learn to detach my emotions from my speech.
It is only now that I am ready to assemble my thoughts and speak up. My H is currently not in a place to talk at all, clammed up completly. Even little digs are said as he walks through the room so I would have to get up and follow to engage. So right now I am practising HOW I want to say it.
SR,
There is a difference, and every situation is different...
It is the classic debate about setting boundaries.
Who they are for, what they are for, and how you enforce them.
There is also a MAJOR difference between STFU and installing a filter between one's brain and mouth.
I don't know much about what you deal with , so it is hard to dicifer what you need for you .....
Emotion is not a bad thing to show....as long as we handle it correctly...
The way WE work through negative emotion positively...
AND....
NOT falling apart, showing Strength and Honor goes a long way....
THAT is for YOU....and nobody else.
What are the things that you handle differently now ?
I don't know that it was so much of a boundary I needed to set that I just needed him to know (not sure why, just for me I guess) that through all of this I have NOT been taking a stupid pill every morning and that I do notice things (though I tend to ignore now).
BUT I will say that it did lead to a conversation which gave me a very up close and personal look into how much pain he is in, which is a good thing. I don't mean the pain is a good thing but the fact that I was reminded of it and I was able to be compassionate again. I did express that because as detached as I am trying to be, I do still want him to know that I care.
He hadn't opened up at all to me for awhile about what is going on in his head and was hiding the pain okay, so it seemed.
I have gone through phases. I have always spouted when I was upset. Then he didn't seem to care at all or it gave him fodder for how evil I was so I stopped altogether. Now he has started noticing again most of the time when something seems "off" with me and has been asking. I wasn't telling him anything really, just trying to work through things on my own but now I am picking and choosing and letting him in a bit.
I don't know. It all seems like such a game sometimes.
Mach, you are right. I think it is all about the way we handle things differently to show how we have changed with a live-in. I can remember a couple of times from weeks ago where I reacted totally differently than I would have normally(laughing something off instead of getting irritated) and the look on his face was priceless!
FG-
My goals are mostly stuff having to do with house projects, kids, exercise, etc. (Anyone have good tips on motivating kids to get out the door in the morning with minimal fuss?? Yikes - what a morning we had. Three very non-morning people trying to get going with minimal crabbiness is seemingly impossible!:))
I am still trying to figure out how to set goals in regards to an MLC husband. He still barely lifts a finger around here though is engaging more with stuff with the kids. I just don't know how to do that . . . especially with relationship stuff.
I will say that he has done several little "goals" I had in the past couple of weeks and the only one I really "manipulated" was the reading with my D at night - I sent her to ask him to read and he did. First time in probably a year!! Now to see if we can get it being a regular thing again . . .
This whole being able to ask/live without expectations has been great. It even works well in relationship to other people besides my H! Who knew.
TIF,
Time to let H float a little. What are your goals for YOU?
I am still trying to figure out how to set goals in regards to an MLC husband. He still barely lifts a finger around here though is engaging more with stuff with the kids. I just don't know how to do that . . . especially with relationship stuff.
Easy answer here.......you don't..
Sorry, but that is the answer for that.
You cannot hold yourself responsible for HIS relationship with his children....
TIF,
To expand on Mach’s point a bit…
Living with an MLCer, makes you WANT to try to set goals for them. To try to wake them up faster, to minimize the damage to the kids, to make it easier on yourself, and a whole host of other reasons.
Unfortunately, that really doesn’t work very well.
He will not reach your goals right now. At least not in the way you hope for. Unfortunately, by doing that you are setting yourself up for disappointment because you have expectations of what you would like to see. So at this point, you are only hurting yourself, even if you don’t realize it.
Your goals, even with regards to the house, have to be for you now. Things that you can do, will learn to do, whatever. If he decides to do something, boy what a nice surprise. But you cannot count of him to do any of it. It sucks. But it doesn’t. It is all in your perception.
Your H is the person responsible for HIS relationship with the kids, not you. The only thing you can really do with that is to be the best mother you can be, love them, be there for them, and let him be. And revel in the relationship you are building with your children. Showing them what true strength and grace in the face of adversity looks like. The rewards that you gain from that are immeasurable. As difficult and sad as it is, it is what has to happen.
Okay, I get it. No goals for H.
One less thing to have to check off my list.
My problem with goals for me is that I have all these things floating around in my head but my follow through is sporadic. Part of that is intentional, but there are some things that I need to sort out exactly what I want to accomplish and get the steps in order so that I can do that.
Maybe that should be my goal for the week.
Will do.
How is this for a good MLC song?
Come Back To Me
David Cook
You say you gotta go and find yourself
You say that you're becoming someone else
Don't recognize the face in the mirror looking back at you
You say you're leaving as you look away
I know there's really nothing left to say
Just know I'm here whenever you need me I'll wait for you
So I'll let you go, I'll set you free
And when you've seen what you need to see
When you find you, come back to me
Take your time, I won't go anywhere
Picture you with the wind in your hair
I'll keep your things right where you left them
I'll be here for you
Oh and I'll let you go, I'll set your free
And when you've seen what you need to see
When you find you, come back to me
And I hope you find everything that you need
I'll be right here waiting to see
You find you, come back to me
I can't get close if you're not there
I can't get inside if there's no soul there
I can't face you, I can't save you
It's something you'll have to do
So I'll let you go, I'll set you free
And when you've seen what you need to see
When you find you, come back to me
Come back to me
So I'll let you go, I'll set you free
And when you've seen what you need to see
When you find you, come back to me
And I hope you find everything that you need
I'll be right here waiting to see
You find you, come back to me
You find you, come back to me
When you find you, come back to me
When you find you, come back to me
© STELLAR SONGS LTD;
"I can't get close if you're not there
I can't get inside if there's no soul there
I can't face you, I can't save you
It's something you'll have to do"
That verse in particular rings so true for me!
Dunno bout the bit of being here if/when he decides to come back though!
Hope you`re well TIF!
TIF,
That is a beautiful song. And I just love David Cook.
In some ways though it is very sad, and I echo FG in the dunno department.
But that is to be decided when it is. Right now, I'm great and that is what is important.
I guess I am still in the "wait for you" department.
For now anyway.
My H seems to be doing absolutely terribly this week, like I have never seen before. He has a big week at work and this is stuff he loves that he normally gets excited and energized by. I have never seen him act as down as he is now, at least for this long a period of time. Seems like he may be starting at least on some level to face his inner demons but who knows.
And yes I realize that this is a long haul and that it is his to fix and deal with but it is hard to watch. I struggle with knowing how much/if at all to reach out to him, not to fix or make suggestions but to just be. But then again, he knows where I am if he needs me.
Meanwhile, I am having an insanely busy week which is good. Keeps my mind off thinking too much! The kids and I are having fun and have some good stuff lined up for this weekend.
The kids and I are having fun and have some good stuff lined up for this weekend.
Good for you. Stay upbeat and even keeled.....
and keeping rockin out!! Even if it's to David Cook.
(I'm kidding about that last part.) Sort of.
But then again, he knows where I am if he needs me.
Yes he does.....
Trapt, you little Detroit punk....
Other than firin' the girls up here this morning....
How ya doin ?
Pretty darn good I suppose.
I'm still playing back and forth on the emails.
I'm still playing back and forth on the emails.
Mafia wars? (she asks innocently, batting her eyes..)
I got an invitation to join some rollercoaster ride application on FB. I declined - the rollercoaster ride I am on now is more than enough! And right now it seems to be moving up and down at the same speed as a "real" ride.
I know that ride, TIF. I`m ready to hop off!Much worse than Kraken!
TIF,
You are doing really well. Just keep your balance and keep your focus on you and those little ones.
Have a good day.
Oh, and keep posting to others. You know this stuff and have a bunch to offer.
Just remember to keep your hands and feet inside the car at all times.
I hope today is awesome for you.
HUGS
Thanks, guys.
LOL - yes, I'll keep my hands and feet in! Don't need to lose any limbs in all of this.
I'm doing pretty well Cat. Trying to keep my focus where it needs to be and wait to see if the winds are shifting. Or not. Or whatever. Who knows.
Faith,
How are you doing girl? Haven’t heard from you in a while.
Cat,
I'm still here, in LimboLand.
I have done some struggling the past few days. Since seeing my H hit new, intense lows (so incredibly low) a week or two ago, I guess a part of me thought that maybe he might start pulling out that mirror. Maybe he did pull out a little pocket mirror but put it right back where he got it. Some of the things he said/did that made me think he was thinking now seem like a figment of my imagination.
I just don't get it but I am not MLC crazy I guess. I am seeing him backtrack and cycle through some of the crap he has done in the past few months to try to make himself feel better - clothes buying jag, etc. It hasn't worked in the past, so why are we going there again? It is unbelievable to me that he doesn't GET it. And I know, I know, I know . . . this is a looooooooong process. When I saw him cycling through some of this before he did give the impression of being "happy" but now I don't get that from him.
So the jackassery continues.
And I am struggling to refocus and reset my expectations back to zero again. It is so hard. I am still seeing lots of flashes of the "real" H which as I have said before I think makes the crazy seem even crazier - the two just don't go together.
Focus, focus, focus! That is my goal for the week.
TF,
It is nice to be able to understand this but honestly, trying to will drive you absolutely crazy.
Recognize the behavior, understand that it is MLC and just go with that….You will spin a lot less.
I posted this on my other thread but it bears repeating. Something I received from someone who has been on both sides of the fence.
Thank you to the person who shared this with me.
"Coming out of the MLC tunnel is very painful for the MLCer and that explains all the stops and starts. Denial is such a massive player in a MLC - and I swear it fights tooth and nail to keep the MLCer deluded.
You might find it is very hard to be the strong, enlightened one at this point. It's just so NOT FAIR - lol. But with a little faith, perseverance and luck - you can do this."
Cat,
Thanks so much for the reminders. It helps to try to keep it in perspective. That these behaviors that are just to uncharacteristic of the man I have known for almost 20 years are due to intense pain and confusion. I talked to my one friend outside of the boards who knows a lot about the situation this morning and she reminded me that with all the pain he is going through right now, he really doesn't need me to "abandon" him as well - some days I feel like throwing in the towel. That day may come down the road, but for me it shouldn't be yet.
I think with most things we as sane human beings feel that understanding helps us to cope but in this case there is no understanding of what is going through their heads- coping has to be reached other ways.
Sigh. Yes it is unfair.
But then so many things about life are . . . we just need to learn to deal with it.
TF,
I am going to say this with as much grace as I can.
I understand what your friend told you. However, thinking like this will keep you stuck.
You are not abandoning him if you are making your life for you. You are not abandoning him if you are happy.
As long as you are breathing, I doubt that you will ever totally abandon him.
However, the most that you can do, really and truly the most that you can do, is move forward for yourself. Take a step everyday. Even if it is a teeny tiny one.
You can let him know you are there. You can make your home a safe environment in case maybe he decides to come around. You can work on yourself and make yourself and even greater TF than you are right now.
But you can’t worry about abandoning him. He has to walk his path. He has begun this journey and he needs to finish it.
If and when the time comes for you to be done, you will know. If you continue as you are going now, you will also know that you have done everything you could to stand. I’m glad you recognize that when you feel that way right now, it is just out of frustration.
You are doing good. Very good.
Cat,
Don't worry, I am not planning on not making my life for me by not abandoning him. I am still trying to move forward and do things for me and the kids, even if it is one baby step at a time.
I guess I am just doing my own cycling. I am feeling better this afternoon, less frustrated and angry. It comes and goes and I just pray for the grace to deal with this day to day.
TF,
All you can do is take it moment by moment, day by day.
The cycling does get better, but I still go through it. Just less often.
I'm glad to hear you were feeling better yesterday. I hope it continues for today.
HUGS
Hi TF,
I think there is also a big difference between "abandoning" someone, and stepping back enough to allow you and your kids enough room to be able to live your lives too.
Limbo is a broad zone ranging from putting your life completely on hold to being able to have a good life while your H does the work he needs to on him.
Each cycle is him working on a new part of his issues, so it is progress, we just have no idea of the length of his tunnel.
Happy movie time?
TF,
I echo exactly what SR and Grace said.
Be gentle with yourself sweetie.
Thanks guys. At least I know now that when I feel down/frustrated/done I know it will pass. I am feeling pretty good today, actually more of those "conquer the world" kind of feelings, at least now, so I am going to channel that energy to see how far I can actually get on my very long list of things to accomplish before the kids come home from school.
SR, I hope that each time he cycles he is processing some. I sometimes remind myself that while this may take a very long time, every day is a day closer to . . . well, who really knows but it is another day through. I do have hope he will not be stuck forever.
But life has no guarantees.
TF,
That really is the purpose to the cycles. To hopefully bring them a little bit closer to the end each time.
I keep trying to remind myself that this won't last forever. I am weary, though.
Hey Faith ~
Thanks for checking in on me. (((hugs)))
I know what you mean about being weary.
I call it emotionally drained.
I have been reading all of the posts by rollercoasterrider. It has taken a big chunk out of my weekend, but they are so insightful. She was on here several years ago, and now can be found in the MLC archives. She also has her own website now.
Through everything she has written, it has cemented the fact that I know H is a MLCer. From everything he has said, to everything he has done.
How are you doing?
Did you survive Halloween?
MJ
MJ - thanks for checking in on me!
I am doing okay. Lots of ups and downs but that goes with the territory I guess.
I survived Halloween but now am so tired even with that extra hour of sleep. All the kids' activities, etc. Wow! It was fun though.
I have read some of RCR's archived posts and her website. I hope to do more when I get a chance. Spare time is hard to come by around here!
MJ,
It is sort of amazing when you really start to see it all.
We are still waiting for you to join us over here. LOL
TF,
Other than exhausted from the beginning of the holiday run, how are you doing?
Remember to keep stepping each day honey. Now is a great time to do it too with the holidays coming up. Start a new tradition, find some joy. Some glorious magic in the season.
Google Snowflake Bentley. Then maybe check and see if your library has the book about him. A very interesting story about the snowflakes and how each and every one is different. It was something that intrigued my S when he was little like your kids. The wonders of nature and the magic of the season.
Hey cat!
Haven't seen you around much lately! I am doing okay. I have had a rough couple of weeks up and down and not sure why really. I have seen a lot of positives from H but for some reason it isn't making me feel better - maybe because I know I can't expect anything soon. Or maybe I am afraid the other shoe will drop. Or maybe I am just not detached enough at this point and my expectations need to be reset at zero. I am cautiously optimistic that he will come out of the fog sometime, though. We shall see.
BUT yesterday and today I am better.
I will look up the snowflake stuff. I am trying to think of new traditions to create with the kids. They are very much tied to tradition so that may be good. The thing is, last Christmas was still three months pre-bomb but my H had detached so much already. He was very disengaged with all we were doing. He honestly now seems more invested and interacts more with the kids than he did then. That is one area that has improved so much for which I am grateful for their sakes. It is still all on his terms and I am trying to leave it that way and not push anything at all. The kids don't expect anything from him it seems like.
So for this Christmas - new tradition or two, maybe suspend some of the old for now, and trying to keep my expectations for H as close to zero as I possibly can.
How are you Cat?
TF,
I am really good and really happy.
Getting ready for the holidays. Really busy with work. Busy with S. He made me watch Saw last night. I forgot how gory that movie was. I loved it though.
I have been here, reading, listening, but you all are doing really well so I haven’t had too much to say.
Just remember, up and down comes with the territory. Expectations will keep you stuck. Keep looking forward, make new traditions, they can always be incorporated into a reunited family.
I love this time of year and I have simply been waiting for the cold air to make it to Florida. We had a few days, and today is cooler but still not feeling that chill in the air yet. I am sure I will soon though.
Keep smiling. It is actually contagious.
Cat,
So glad you are doing well! Gory movies - glad my S isn't into those yet, though I am sure it won't be long.
Even in the summer I was dreading the thought of Christmas. It is my favorite time of year and I just didn't see how it could remain so this year but now I am in a much better place and I know the kids and I WILL enjoy it, and H can tag along if he wants. At this point I do not expect him to join in the activities with my extended family (he has managed to avoid them for months now) but that is his problem, though I can say it will probably make me sad and the kids wonder. Whatever. Hopefully by then I will be in an even better place and not bothered as much.
I am working hard not be "stuck" myself, as I have felt that at times the past couple of weeks. You are right, expectations can do that. Been making steps on some of my personal goals, so happy there.
Glad you are doing so well, friend.
Hi TF,
My plan is to have absolutely zero expectations for H and that he will find it more stressful than usual. So I am planning lots of time out during the days for me and the kids so we can clear the house easily for a few hours at any stage for fun stuff and let things calm down if need be.
Hope you are having a good day.
SR,
Isn’t expecting that H will find it more stressful an expectation?
Just sayin….
My plan is to have absolutely zero expectations for H and that he will find it more stressful than usual.
Oh SR......
Thats giving away waaaayyyy too much power....
The ONLY thing to expect is the unexpected.
Cause if that doesn't happen, and he appears to be handling things well....
YOU are the recipient of all of that stress....
Just keep in mind....the seeds you plant through the holidays this year....
Will be the fruit you bear next holidays, where ever the harvest is picked.....
I think being able to clear the house and go have fun stuff is great for you SR. I find myself in the same position.
I`m sure your intuition is finely tuned at this stage for those times when your H is going through a bad patch. Being able to bail out and not catch the fall out from that is a very good idea. Let him spin on his own.
i do make a point of reclaiming the house though whenever I want. Being unpredictable about my bail outs actually.
Anyway, it can be pretty exhausting running away all the time.
Make sure some of your outings are for you alone-not jsut with the kids.
Add to the mystery for your H.
Hope you`re keeping well
TIF
I hope you`re doing well. Hope you`re letting your H keep on spinning while you`re having fun with the kids and time for your fun too.
This time last year through the worst point in our crisis I sent a letter to H. Can`t remember too much in it now though I did say "God has taken me to this place for a reason and God will take me safely out of here"
There`s a lot of learning to be done for all of us in this situation TIF, so just make the most of that side of things.
And, of course,
Have fun!
Can`t remember too much in it now though I did say "God has taken me to this place for a reason and God will take me safely out of here"
FG, That's awesome - what a good reminder! Thanks for stopping by to check on me. I am actually doing pretty well. I had a good week, excited about some irons I have in the fire with regards to personal goals I have, and trying to keep my concentration on that and the kids.
My struggle now is once again keeping my expectations at zero, but now for different reasons. I am seeing more and more "positives" from H especially with regards to the kids, in the past couple of weeks things he hasn't done for a year give or take he has done again. Still not much with me, though I have heard a few apologies lately for random things, including some very specific MLC behaviors. Of course, they haven't stopped, but . . .
The more normal I see the harder it can be to expect nothing, though I am doing a pretty good job of it. I know that this could still be a really long haul and the yuck is still there. And so is the crazy. What a strange animal MLC is.
How are you doing?
TF,
Its a day by day thing, isn't it. Just doing the best you can and enjoying each day.
My zero expectations for xmas were based on the fact that H was really spooked by xmas last year, and while I have a great day planned (I love the whole xmas thing), I needed to prepare myself that H may not choose to participate in any of it. Its not about me dwelling on it or thinking about it, its saying it is possible H would not be there, this is how I would deal with it, but now all my xmas energies are focussed on me and my kids having a most excellent xmas. In my sitch xmas was one of the big triggers for H dropping the bomb last year, and I think it was also a big contributor to my second bomb this week. Thats what I talked about with my DB coach a couple of weeks back.
This is a strange and wild ride. Day by day TF!
Hi, SR - Thanks for stopping by. I am with you on the Christmas thing. I need to be ready that my H won't want to be involved either. He really wasn't last Christmas at all and that was still three months pre-bomb but obviously already getting pretty deep in the MLC, looking back. We also have Thanksgiving to worry about. I am sure he won't participate because it will be with my family - he has avoided them since last Christmas - and though the invitation is there I am sure he won't come and make up some lame excuse for the kids. Oh, well.
It is a strange and wild ride. Never a dull moment, unfortunately.
What is it about holidays and the timing of bombs? H dropped my bomb last Christmas and moved out 1/3/09...So..I'm dreading this one and have two weeks off of work(b/c I thought I'd be caring for the girls by myself)..H is home-sort of...physically but not always mentally.
I'm trying to think of some low-key activities for me and the girls since H doesn't want to take a vacation. My original plan, if I was separated/divorced, was for the girls and I to go on a cruise this Christmas...well that's not happening and H is home but doesn't want to do anything-and then complains that we(really he) just sits and watches TV...
Would anyone share some activities they're planning? I could use some ideas! or strategies to get thru the holidays mentally intact?
KJ,
Not sure what it is about the holidays. Maybe it is the additional pressure and stress (which is there for most of us at some level I think, whether it is purely "good" stress or not). Maybe it is the guilt because holidays and family go together. Who knows.
Sorry, I don't have any activities planned for ideas. I would love some, too.
Hi KJ ~
My H knows how much I love Christmas, so
last year...
ten days before Christmas, he told me he filed for D.
He had just got up from the table after filling out Christmas cards, with both our names on them.
Now this year...
Our D has been at a standstill for most of the year, so he filed a hearing request.
Date? Dec 11th.
In my case, I think ow is pushing it.
"Pretty Please, for me, for Christmas."
MJ
Wow that anti-Christmas behaviour thing is interesting. I know I struggled through Christmas last year, keeping the peace and H exploded on Stephen`s Day(Dec 26th).
This time round we passed trying to keep the marriage together though H is likely to be still living here over Christmas so survival strategies are a must here too.
I know its a double edged sword, but having a little family/other people around for a couple of hours fun might take the pressure off, though you`d have to be very careful of course that the visitors wouldn`t create more tension, so chose invites carefully.
I also intend baling out with the kids over the holiday season-short trips, games, visit neighbours anything not to be around for a brewing row.
And I`m going to minimize the preparations and fuss for the day itself.I will not be tired and stressed.
Last night H asked me if his cousin could come over for Thanksgiving-he said he wasn't sure how to ask me(WTF?..just ask!).. I said fine. I figure the boys can watch football and the girls and I will go to a movie or something... I asked H if we could be civil with a guest and he said he wasn't sure but hoped so...(H doesn't yell with people around-usually-..its just tense sometimes..no fun for guests)
MLJ-your H has impeccable timing! :-( Focus on what you like about Christmas-put your energy there. Make some new memories..I'm just trying to figure out how to do that with H at home in withdrawal/depression...
What I imagine: lots of movies at home, a few out in the theater, maybe sledding if there's snow, making christmas cookies, playing borad games, walks outside if its nice-maybe touring open homes or model homes for fun decorating ideas...bowling..hanging out with friends somewhere other than our home. still thinking of more since I don't think that'll sustain me two weeks...
Okay, so I am just venting here. Overall lately I have been doing well, happy, living my life and taking care of my kids.
Last night I was just overwhelmingly sad. The man I chose to marry would have never done this to me and his kids. That is in good part why I chose him. I trusted him implicitly. I realize he is not that man now but it is still hard to fathom. I know we all (the LBSs) go through this. I just don't understand how a previously responsible adult can decide they have a "right" to put themselves above everyone else, including their children, that they have the "right" to be selfish. Yes, I have heard those words, he has the "right."
I am sad that my kids have a very sucky role model for a man right now. I worry that my daughter will always have insecurities with men when she is older, that she may be always afraid they will walk away from her, that she will never be "good enough" (since it appears her mom wasn't "good enough" for her dad to stick it out with). I worry that my son will think it is okay to walk when things get tough, to ignore his own kids, etc. I pray all the time to be enough for them.
We both come from families with parents who have been married 40+ years and have been through some tough times together.
I know he is in crisis and is not himself and that hurting people hurt people but just having a pity party right now. Really, I am just venting. I have been well overall lately!
I also wonder about the fact that he is still at home. Is that a "bad" thing as far as him being able to work through his issues? I definitely don't want to push him out the door, but I wonder.
TF,
IMO it isn't a bad thing for him to be at home. That doesn't mean it isn't the harder thing. Harder for both of you.
Detaching was much harder for me when my H was here. Yoyu could make the arguement that it was still much earlier on in this too. So, who knows what might have happened had he stayed here. He didn't.
I know you think he is being selfish and I won't argue that point. What I have come to understand though is just home much my H hurts. In some cases I think the MLC or even WAS sees their actions as a natural reaction to their spouses having left them emotionally. Not saying you did, just saying it's something I see.
As far as having the right to be happy, sure we all deserve that. How we get there also deserves alot of careful thought and consideration when we have families. I think for alot they really feel they have tried everything. Does the LBS see it that way? Not usually. Maybe b/c we didn't really hear them as they tried in whatever manner is theirs to tell us what was wrong.
I know you are just venting. I'm feeling very introspective lately. That usually has me looking at things through different lenses.
I hope you feel better and I know that even with things going well overall it's easy to go where you have.
HUGS
Thanks for your input Grace. It is always welcome.
You know, when he shows me his hurt which has happened occasionally over the past few months when he really opens up and lets me into his head, I can see how very deep and soul shattering it is. And that is where the selfishness comes in, I guess. He truly can't focus on anything but himself and his pain. I get that. I just can't fathom how it is possible he can't stop it at will, but I understand he really can't at this point.
Quite honestly, I have done the scrutinizing in the mirror and have listened to his complaints. He had a QLC about 10 years ago and I know the issues that plagued him then have continued and he felt they were "swept under the rug" back then, which maybe they were, but they were issues he had with himself and his identity and really didn't have much at all to do with me.
That is why this sudden change in character and lashing out at me took me by surprise. He hadn't really expressed problems with me/our marriage and I think overall it was pretty good. yes, there were some issues but nothing major and nothing that warranted this kind of reaction!
Anyway, it is what it is. I have been able to sort through the lashings to what is real and what is not and honestly I believe I have taken the fight away. HIs anger which was often directed at me the couple months pre and post bomb really isn't there anymore. EVERYTHING else in his world makes him mad it seems like, everyone else is doing him wrong, everyone is out to get him, etc., is what I hear these days,rather than me being the problem which is something I am grateful for.
I will just keep doing what I am doing. I have been spending a lot of time on my knees lately.
The one thing I need to not let happen is that he has seen me sad a few times the past couple of weeks. Not sure if it is good or bad but I don't want him to see me as a mopey person, because I really am not that these days.
Hmmmmm . . . kind of a long post. Sorry!
TF,
Venting is wonderful.
Grace made a good point. Having them home is harder, but is it better or worse, only you know the answer to that. It is different….
I know it is hard to understand how they become selfish. I too heard that it was time for H to be selfish for a change.
I do agree that we haven’t seen all of the “work” on the relationship that they think they have done. But the bottom line with it is still the same… What they did try, or think they have tried, has not worked to make them feel any differently about themselves or their lives and they need to keep going on their search until they take the time to really look into the mirror.
You are doing well for yourself. That I know and believe. You have a strength that I don’t think you are fully aware of.
As far as the holidays, enjoy them. Do whatever brings YOU and your kids joy. If your H is involved, he is. If he isn’t, well that is his choice. Your role in this now, is to feed your own soul. Take care of the only person you can control, which is you, and set the example for your children. They will be impacted by what he does, but they will be equally impacted by how you handle the situation and yourself. If you show them your strength, if you show them that you are good enough to be happy and love yourself, they will learn that and the issues that you brought up, will not be as bad.
Have a good day my friend.
Cat,
Welcome back! Glad you had a good time.
I hope I am doing well. Definitely having some major ups and downs and still letting little things get to me too much on occasion.
We are up to a milestone here. It was a year ago within a few days of me sitting on the bathroom floor with my H sobbing and telling me how messed up he was. It is also a year looking back that the replay started, the spending, the new clothes, dying the hair, becoming a gym rat, and the major detaching from the family. When his MLC started is anyone's guess. Based on subtle changes I noticed in retrospect it could have been months earlier at least. I really can't think of any defining moment or big event that happened that could have jump started it.
I can't believe it has been that long, yet here we are. He is still spinning his wheels and getting nowhere as far as I can tell. It has been an emotionally exhausting ride for me. I'm sure for him, too.
Okay, so it looks like MLC has been around a long time.
"Midway on our life's journey, I found myself
In a dark woods, the right road lost. To tell
About those woods is hard - so tangled and rough..."
- Dante - The Inferno
On a lighter note, I was sitting behind a guy in church the other day whose t-shirt said, "It is better to have loved and lost than to live with a psycho the rest of your life."
"It is better to have loved and lost than to live with a psycho the rest of your life."
Hi, TIF, just have a couple of minutes to check out DB, but just HAD to comment on that tshirt logo! LMAO! Its brilliant!
Funny, that your bomb anniversary is Nov-so is mine-well, one of them anyhow. I think the pre-holiday feeling combined with the dark winter days bring out the crazies in all of us!
Just hope YOU`RE doing well. Minding you, loving you and the kids and having fun. You need to distract yourself from your H`s pain. Its his pain, not yours.
Line up all the fun you can get girl-yeah, spotting funny t shirts counts too!
FG,
Thanks for checking in! How are you doing?
I am doing okay for the most part. Trying to separate myself from the craziness.
Oddly, this big moment a year ago was about four months pre-actual bomb speech, but definitely a marker moment of "something major" going on.
Work, the kids, etc. have been keeping me busy for too much fun unfortunately, but maybe with things lighter the holiday week next week (Thanksgiving for us) I'll be able to GAL more.
TF,
Thanks for the welcome back. But really, I come and go anyway… LOL
Doing well for the most part. You sound good.
Pretty amazing when you look back isn’t it? You mention where the R was but what about you, a year ago compared to now?
Cat,
LOL - I must sound better than I feel! It has been a hard week and while I am looking to try to make the holidays as fun and special as I can, I am having a hard time getting my heart into it.
A year ago, I was okay. I was frustrated by my workaholic H becoming more so at that point. Then his revelations about how messed up he was shook me up as I realized how deep his issues ran. Of course, I figured "we" could weather them because I didn't have any inkling that he would throw me under the bus - that was just NOT who he was. And here we are.
Hi TIF-
Well the bus hasn't flattened you! So keep on moving. I have those dark days too,for me its where everything H says just grates on me-all so negative..and then he criticizes ME b/c my perception is different...
Try to keep expectations low or reasonable for the holidays so there's little disappointment. Got to be better than the year of the bomb-doesn't it? We're all so much stronger a year later, I think. christmas is my year anniversary for the bomb...can't wait! :-)
KJ,
LOL - no, I guess I wasn't flattened by the bus - yet.
I still have moments when I feel like I have been!
My H is pretty negative all the time now too, though fortunately he has pretty well stopped projecting it all over me, but it does get old hearing how everything is just awful. I guess that is another good thing with having to go through this - I have learned to pick out and concentrate on the GOOD parts of life rather than the bad.
TRYING to keep my expectations way down for the holidays. It is tough when there are kids involved.
BTW, what does one get an MLCer for Christmas? He could use a MIRROR but I suppose the significance would be lost on him.
I asked, he doesn't want anything, and he certainly has bought himself pretty much everything he can over the past few months so who knows.
LOL!
My H thinks that my buying clothes is me just accumulating stuff(a criticism of me)..said one day..then the next..For Christmas he'd like anything from the Territory ahead catalog we just got- maybe a gift certificate so he can try things on! Then the next day...I don't have any room in my drawers or closet for all my clothes!!@!
ARGH!
Happy Weekend!
I guess confusion is the name of the game! LOL!
Hey can I join the party? The one year anniversary for bomb #1 for me will be on Thanksgiving. It's funny how things are alike. I see how my wife keeps cycling.
You ladies are an inspiration. It's hard enough with my wife and I separated. I don't know how I would be able to handle if she was living at home.
DM,
Come join the party, and a fun one it is!
Sometimes it is okay having my H around, sometimes it is difficult because it is so hard to detach from the crazy. I think it has been okay for the kids here, though, because he has gotten to the point (after months of not) where he does interact with them a decent amount so it is at least somewhat "normal" for them.
But some days it is so difficult. I had a total meltdown earlier this afternoon but I guess I needed to because I feel better now.
I agree D. Although I'm lonely, I'm glad H is not here in his current state.
My one-year anniversary is December 6. What is it about the holidays!?
My take is the holidays are just a lot of pressure, family time, all that.
Okay, so I have decided I need to go dimmer. As I have mentioned, I see some "normal" these days, but it is still always mixed with obvious crazy that I know that it is not yet "real," if that makes any sense. Not that he is not being genuine in his actions or words (I believe he is), but he is not himself by any means. It is throwing me into a tailspin. I ache for the normal when I see the glimpses and it has been so emotionally rough on me.
I have not been "pursuing" I don't think, but have decided I need to tone things down even further. Not be rude or aloof, but maybe just not act so interested in his day, etc., esp asking him questions or whatever. It seems so awful, but I feel like I need to do it to detach as much as I can and make sure my expectations are at zero. I need to do this for me, not for how he might react.
TF,
I know what you mean about seeing the "normal". It keeps drawing me in. I have to do a better job of not being so available. You sound like you have a good handle on things.
I think we need to get to a place where they need to come to us and not the other way around.
DM,
You are absolutely right - being in a place that they need to come to us. I am finding I need to do that as I do get drawn in also as you say.
Last night, I chose not to be in the room with H and the kids which must have surprised him (my D asked me to join them and I said I would, then after a few minutes changed my mind - felt strange to be there). He actually came to me a couple of minutes later to make sure everything was okay. Strange. BUT need to remember my detaching is for me not to see what he does.
Yes that is the key doing for you and not as a trick to see how they will respond.
I have gone back and forth about Thanksgiving. My inlaws invited me to come. I want to go but don't want to go, if that makes any sense at all. Ultimately I decided I'm not going because it will be too hard for me. If it also happens to give her an idea what it's like to spend a holiday without me then fine but that's not why I'm not going.
I remember when I told her a couple weeks ago that I may not be there, she started giving me excuses as to why I should go. She couldn't just come out say "I want you there" because then she would have to admit feelings for me. Even this past week I texted her to let her know I wasn't going. No response. I texted her later to ask if she got my first text. No response.
To answer your question from KJ's thread. No, my wife does not live at home. She moved out in February.
I am having Thanksgiving issues, too. It will be at my parents' and my H is invited, they really want him to come, but I am sure he won't. It will make me sad, but at the same time maybe him sitting at home and being miserable by himself is a good thing. It will suck for the kids because they will know it is not right that he is not there. Of course, I am just assuming (and we know what that does) that he won't come but he has avoided my family like the plague since the bomb. Doesn't seem to see that other people can have grace.
DM-Do you have anywhere else to go for Thanksgiving so you don't have to spend it alone if you don't go to your in-laws?
Trying to stay dim. Trying to stay detached. H brought me a latte tonight. Arrggh!
Hi TF,
Its so easy to know what we need to do when they are at home, but so much harder to do it, hey. The continuous interactions make detachment with kindness such a challenge at times.
I agree that keeping our home a soft warm place to fall for as long as possible is the way to go. If they pull up, it helps, if they do end up going the other way then at least their last memories of living with us is of some sort of warmth and kindness.
Hang in there!
TF-
You are doing great. Be thankful as you would a friend for those little gestures from H, be detached and caring...
As for Thanksgiving...I think alot of us get wrapped up in memories past, missing what we don't have. We need to remember to be present on the moment and thankful for all that we do have!
Thanks for your input on my thread!
HOn,
There, that is better than HO. LOL! I am grateful for the small things. I had another "positive" this morning that was truly an answer to prayer.
I am a bit paralyzed about T-giving. He hasn't asked anything about plans or volunteered anything and I am afraid to talk to him about it. He is invited to my parents' with us but I am 99% certain he won't go. I guess I am afraid to talk about it because I don't want to hear those words though I am prepared. I need to just bite the bullet I guess.
tf,
I know how easy it is to hang on what they will say or do. The more you practice not doing that, the easier it is.
Why ask him if he's going? Let him know what time you're leaving and when you expect to be back. If he chooses to come, he knows how to get in the car. I don't say this flippantly or with any attitude behind it. The only time I ask if H will be coming to something he's invited to is if it will change something (like an extra hotel room etc).
This year all I said was "we want to invite you to the upcoming holidays." My D17 told me this morning that he is coming on Thanksgiving. I have to admit, I'm really surprised. Nothing to skip a beat over though. The plans I have don't change b/c of it.
Takes time to get there and I still have moments. Just not this time and not over this.
Grace,
Well, the invitation was extended tonight. D asked if he was going and he said he didn't know or something like that. That is how he answers pretty much any question these days anyway. You're right about not asking but it is so dang hard. I highly doubt he will say anything about it ahead of time, either. His MLC craziness. He is telling where he is going more now, but almost never ahead of time, more when he is on his way out the door. Of course, guess I have gotten used to doing that, too.:)
So has your H joined you for the holidays previously?
You sound like you handle this MLC stuff so well!!!
You sound like you handle this MLC stuff so well!!!
LMAO! No, I don't. I just had to back off and not make myself so crazy with it all.
So has your H joined you for the holidays previously?
Yes. He has even gone on vacavtions with us. Surprises me every time. Does it mean anything? Not really. Do I think he's changing his mind and re-thinking all of this? No. I'll think that when he says something to that effect.
What I do think is that he has an avoidant personality thing going on. So, that could mean it will be along time before he does anything (like filing). Will I? I don't know. No time soon though.
I know the non-response and "I don't knows" when asked questions. My H has gotten a little better in the last few months. I just take anything like that as a "no, thank you".
Let your D ask and they will find a way to communicate (or not). I hope they do. My D's are still working on it (well, as much as teenagers work on communicating with parents).
Regardless of what he does. Have a great time and take lots of pictures!
HUGS
TF-
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving. Focus on your family and the kids. Thanks for your support this year!
Grace,
Are you living with my H? LOL.
TF,
What Grace said. That is it in a nutshell.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi TIF! Hope you`re having fun today!
I`m very interested in that avoidant personality thing that Grace mentioned. It seems to be something we have in common with our H.
I noticed for me that the boundary setting thing -putting my foot down gently-really seems to have improved things around here. For me, at any rate.
I wonder if thats what we have to do to deal with this avoidance stuff. My H explodes when he`s bottled up an excessive amount of bad feeling. Of course I`m not privy to when those ab feelings start so have no idea when -or why- he`s about to spew.
What`s helped me is not to get upset when he gets upset. I just stay very calm, even if my heart is hammering with fear or anger.
And I challenge him gently on how he says stuff "Please don`t blame me. I really didn`t know you`d feel this way"
Not, mind you, that it`ll keep us together in the long run. But at least I`m not getting as upset about stuff any more.
TIF, having fun with or without H is the way to go.We really need to learn not to let their mood affect ours. Hope your Thanksgiving is relaxing and fun for you and the kids.
(((hugs))
FG,
You sound like you are doing well all things considering. There is definitely something freeing in being able to let go and concentrate on ourselves and our kids and making our lives as full as we can with or without them. You handle your H's spews very well, it sounds like!
Well, my H declined joining us for Thanksgiving today with the family. I wasn't surprised. The kids practically begged him with no prompting from me but he did come to me last night and explain why he didn't want to go, etc. I told him it was up to him, that he was wanted there but it was his decision. I was calm and light fortunately.
We ended up having a great day regardless. He called twice while we were gone. The best part is not only did I survive this first major holiday post bomb BUT I had a good day AND I feel so empowered having done so well. This was a big hurdle for me. There were a couple of times I felt the pangs of missing him being there but honestly over the past year or so I have done almost everything entirely on my own with the kids taht it didn't feel too different, other than it being a big family time.
So, it was a good day. Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving. I do feel truly blessed for the good things in my life - family, friends, great kids, a roof over my head, food on the table, and on and on.
TIF,
I`m entirely with you on the doing everything all on your own with the kids bit. Very much same story here.
The key thing is to have fun with or without H.
I1ve adapted to his absence so much now that I find it harder to have him around actually.
Glad you had a good time-and that the kids did too!More happy memories for them and pleasant associations with Thanksgiving.
Next hurdle: Christmas!
TIF,
I`m entirely with you on the doing everything all on your own with the kids bit. Very much same story here.
The key thing is to have fun with or without H.
I1ve adapted to his absence so much now that I find it harder to have him around actually.
Glad you had a good time-and that the kids did too!More happy memories for them and pleasant associations with Thanksgiving.
Next hurdle: Christmas!
TF,
Well done! Sounds like you conquered the holiday and had a good time! Remember the feeling, what you did that worked..it'll help for Christmas.
Have a great weekend!
KJ-
I can't tell you what a much better place emotionally I am today than Wednesday when I was dreading the holiday. I did so much better than I thought I might.
I am thinking in some ways Christmas might not be as bad as Thanksgiving. He seems very engaged in the hunt for some presents for the kids and I am sure he will be around for our immediate family activities, at least for the most part. Unless something changes a lot in the next month I highly doubt he will join the extended family again, but that will just be for a relatively short time (rather than a full day like yesterday). It is kind of hard to remember but he seems to be less detached from the kids now than he was a year ago which was still pre bomb. I guess we'll see. The good news is I know I can survive a holiday without him now.:)
Yes you can! And each one will get easier. Create the new, positive memories!
You may have already seen this, but I think this list works well....and especially for couple S and living under the same roof:
DO'S & DON'TS
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!
2. No frequent phone calls to him/her.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to him/her through conversation.....say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, etc.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention. (Remember, you are drawing him/her back with this technique.)
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.)
8. Do not buy gifts. (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together. (That is pursuing.)
10.Do not spy on spouse. (Not good for you and will make
matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make him/her say it too......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act as if you are moving on with your life!
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times!
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do
things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the
conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be scarce or short on words. If he/she asks what's wrong....just
say "nothing". Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an
argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home!
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!)
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around, somebody that is attractive and fun.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let him/her trap you into a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how he/she feels (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.)
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give him/her space and time.
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil)
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what
you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
Sandi,
Thanks for that list - those are always good reminders! I am working so hard on that right now. #33 and #34 are good reminders now. I have had some down days lately and get tired of it all. And I don't want to undo any good I have done.
I am trying to figure out how to handle this new and improved alien living in my house. That normal adult is there sometimes but still with a lot of the teenage rebel. It is so strange. In some ways it seems like he has forgotten how to be the "adult" him. Either that, or maybe he is just not there yet. Who knows. I am trying to be grateful for those times and detach from the rest and keep my expectations at zero for the moment and the future. These not-alien sightings help keep my hopes up but I am not sure that is a good thing.
TF,
That it keeps your hopes up is just what it is. I have found that as long as I keep it in check internally, I'm ok.
Do I get excited about small things? Sometimes. I have this internal check list where I go over possibilities. Then, if it doesn't play out the way I had hoped for, I'm ok and not terribly disappointed.
Good to hear Thanksgiving went well.
I did an outstanding job of cooking this year (even if I do say so myself)
HUGS
(((Grace)))
How did your Thanksgiving go? Did your H end up joining you to eat some of that delicious food (if you do say so yourself :))?
I guess it is a matter of keeping that hope in and in check. I do get a bit excited by some of the things I have seen/heard the past few weeks but have to check myself from slipping back into the "wifely" me. And I am getting to the point where I don't get disappointed anymore, or at least not more than minimally so. I have to say, seeing the real H helps me realize that love for him is still there. There have been so many days in the past 3-4 months or so that I have wondered.
You know what gets me about not backsliding from hard earn changes? Opening my big mouth! It's as if I just have to say what I'm feeling at the time--even knowing that I'm cutting my own throat where my H is concerned. I don't understand why I do that when I know that it is not going to earn me any Brownie points with him! Then after I say what I am busting to say, I am so mad at myself when I see the opposite results from what I was wanting.
Sandi,
My mouth has always gotten me in trouble too! H would ask what was wrong and boy would I tell him. That has been a total 180 for me the last few months, learning not to say what is on my mind all the time. Not that there isn't a time and place for that, but that whole 24 hour rule is such a good thing. I think my H gets frustrated a bit now that he has started to ask me what was wrong again (after months of seemingly not caring) and I don't tell him. But that is better than undoing progress and is a change I am trying to implement. Besides, I frankly don't really trust him with my feelings/issues anyway right now.
TIF, your last post there totally applies to me too!I used to be all for telling H where he slipped up! Guess he`s still adapting to the fact that I just plain don`t go there anymore.
Good to have Sandi post those reminders.
I've kept my mouth shut alot and I don't know if that's helped either. It seems like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't I use a different standard than I used to these days. Does it matter? To me, yes. I don't always respond the way I would like, but at the end of the day, I have had the opportunity to say some important things.
I understand the have to when it comes to saying things. What I find myself speaking outloud doesn't come from the same place though. I don't know quite how to explain it, but I've had some reactions come out of it. Keep in mind, almost any reaction out of my H can be considered a good one.
(((TF)))
Yes, he actually came. Little wonders.
Grace - glad he came to Thanksgiving! Hope it was a good one!
I am finding now as I find my way through this that sometimes the opportunity does present itself to say things in a different way than I did before. But there is still soooooo much I want to say, that I wish saying would snap him out of it.
Lately it has been just to tell him to stop his tantrum already and face life and do something about his issues instead of running and trying to mask them.
But there is still soooooo much I want to say, that I wish saying would snap him out of it.
I know. It won't though. Something that helpoed me was to write letters (I have not and had no intention of giving to him). It helped me get it some of it out of my system. It isn't quite the same, but interestingly there have been 2 occasions where the clarity the letters gave me was really helpful b/c I was actually able to say some things.
Lately it has been just to tell him to stop his tantrum already and face life and do something about his issues instead of running and trying to mask them.
It sounds like you've said this on more than one accasion. He heard you. Now, stop It sounds like you're "mothering" him. If he starts in try excusing yourself and leaving or one of my favorites is to say "wow, it sounds like it really sucks to be you. I'm sorry."
My H doesn't vent to me, but if yours does and you are willing to listen, you could invite that.
Thanksgiving was good. Lots of food and games.
How is everything going for you today? Is he in grump mode?
HUGS
Keep in mind, almost any reaction out of my H can be considered a good one.
Oh honey I hear ya! I have to check my H once a day just to make sure he's breathing! (lol)
The biggest thing I hear men on the board say is that we women won't tell them in plain English what we want them to know. They say it should not be a guessing game. It will always be such a difference in how the sexes communicate, I suppose. However, I think some women do think that men are born knowing what females want & need. After all these years of M, I have finally come to terms with the idea that they actually need a picture drawn (in color) and with very simple instructions how to look at it.
Maybe we have read too many romance novels where the hero knows the woman better than she knows herself? Well, it's sure not that way in reality!
Seriously, I have learned that if I will stop thinking about my pride and stop expecting my H to automatically know some things.....and just tell him in very simple short sentences what I want or how something made me feel....it works a lot better and saves a heck of a lot of time!
You all have me on a roll now! I'm talking about two different things and should clearify in case you didn't understand. But, I get myself in trouble by not keeping my mouth closed when I spout off about something.......aNd usually it is about somebody else. He can't stand to hear me say anything negative about another person, and that's why I said it wins me no Brownie points. I think it started when I wanted him to be in my corner about certain issues or people, and when he wouldn't say anything...then I'd open my mouth aNd say something negative hoping he'd agree. Never happened. You'd think I would have learned, but then it turned into a nasty habit...
The other things I was referring to was how we should talk to our H's about our needs (especially in bed) or how we want something done (humm.....again, especially in bed), or what makes us happy (......okay I'll stop).
Sandi,
I agree with you about women needing to be more forthcoming about what is on their mind instead of asking their men to be mind readers. I know I have been guilty of this for sure and if I get a second chance at marriage I will definitely be better about not assuming my H can read my mind!
Quote:
Lately it has been just to tell him to stop his tantrum already and face life and do something about his issues instead of running and trying to mask them.
It sounds like you've said this on more than one accasion. He heard you. Now, stop It sounds like you're "mothering" him. If he starts in try excusing yourself and leaving or one of my favorites is to say "wow, it sounds like it really sucks to be you. I'm sorry."
Grace, I actually haven't said that to my H. Maybe initially before I realized what all was going on with him, months ago, I might have said something along those lines but haven't since. But I would love to!
I have done the letter writing thing. I wrote quite a nasty letter a few weeks ago unloading everything I was angry/frustrated/hurt about. When I am ready I am printing it out and burning it for that release. Not quite ready yet. And no, I wouldn't give it to him.
I am also thinking I need to write one of those unpostable letters to my in-laws, too . . .
Glad you had a good Thanksgiving!
No grump here today, more like the strong, silent type (or maybe just silent). Actually, H took the kids to see a movie to get them out of my hair since it has been a long week, which was nice. Honestly, I would have rather been invited to go along but this is okay, too. Maybe some day.
Okay, so I have a question especially for those of you who have lived to see the other side of MLC, something I have been wondering about. Once the fog starts lifting and they are ready, are these MLCers able to "fix" without the help of some kind of therapy/counseling/ADs? Seems like an awful big mess to sort out on their own!
How are you doing today, TF?
DM,
Doing pretty well today! I am having some moments of nostalgia, though, with decorating for Christmas. There are so many things that H has gotten me over the years because he knows how much I have loved Christmas and decorating. Sigh.
BUT he was out with the kids yesterday and they surprised me with a tree which was nice. My mind of course was trying to read the MLC motivation - did he do it to be nice or so he wouldn't feel obligated to go out another day with me and the kids to get one? I am CHOOSING to believe he was just being nice. The kids said it was a spur of the moment thing. Thinking of things like that is vintage H but he is not vintage H right now.
Trying to stay even keeled here.
You're doing great! Its nice when the 'old' spouse we love pops their head out of the tunnel..makes you remember why you're still standing!
You're right K. It is nice to see but it also makes it hard to stay detached.
Both of you are so right. The reminders of why I am still standing (and why I married H in the first place) are good, but it does make it harder to detach and not slip back into feeling like a wife again.
"Normal" by and large seems to be home tonight. I'll take it.
TF,
Just been following along over this holiday weekend.
Honey, you are in the right place for you right now. Remember that everything we all feel is normal.
Are you gonna be able to snap him out of his “temper tantrum”? Nope.
Does that stop you from wanting to try? Nope.
I can’t tell you how many days I just wanted to take the frying pan and beat some sense into his head (or amnesia, didn’t really care which LOL). I have actually just watched my S go through that phase of it himself recently. Boy he just wanted to shake H and scream at him to wake up.
Glad you had a good Thanksgiving even if H was not there. I agree with FG, sometimes it is just easier if they are not around.
Look forward to Christmas, do what you can to make the holiday and the time leading up to it special for you and the kids. The attitude of if H wants to be a part he can, if he doesn’t, his loss…Best one you can have. He is the one who is missing out if he chooses not to join in. Up to you if you want to be miserable with him or happy with your kids.
I will check back in soon. Have a great day.
(((Cat)))
Thanks for stopping by - I've missed seeing you around the boards!
It really has been a release for me to finally get a good handle on the fact that he won't just snap out of it. This is such a slow gradual process. And I finally see the positives for what they are - good .. . for that moment. I believe they are genuine but he still is a mess. It is when I see the Big Positives (those changes in him over the past year plus that are truly crazy) change that I will have hope that he is on his way out. Until then, doing the best I can with what I have.
I was just realizing how much it takes to get me ruffled these days - so much more than used to. What a blessing - that is a change that I hope sticks with me.
I think it is a blessing that your S understands what is going on with your H - in some ways I think that makes it easier. On the other hand, I think my D is young enough to not remember what her "real" daddy is really like so that may be good also. Honestly, she is the only one who treats him almost fully normally these days at home.
Have a good day!
Hi all,
I just wanted to wish you all Happy Holidays and to let you know how much reading this thread has helped me. I am also about 1 year post-bomb, on Dec 7th to be exact. My H is still at home, and seems to be taking tiny baby steps towards me, yet is still seeing the OW about twice a month that I can tell. Its been a terrible year, and yet he does seem more 'here' than last year. Hope that your holidays all go well. I too am wondering how this Christmas will be spent. For me is was always a time to spend with family, (usually his since they live here in town, mine are across country) and so far he doesn't want to see them at all. Debating on whether I should go alone (with probably lots of awkward questions) or try to plan a quiet day at home with us two (is that pressuring or pursueing?)
Hugs to you all dealing with MLC, I hope it gets easier.
Forever,
Thanks for posting! Having the MLCer at home seems to be more uncommon than them being gone and it is so hard. I know what you mean - my H seems more "here" in some ways and has taken tiny baby steps but is still way out there aboard the mother ship a good deal of the time.
Is it possible for you to go alone to see YOUR family for Christmas? That sounds like it would be something completely different. He can stay at home and wallow in his misery and you can enjoy the company of your family.
Hi, Cat.
I am doing pretty well. Trying to stay as even keeled as possible and not let worries get to me. My H seems to be spinning badly right now the last couple of days. I am not sure if there is something specific going on, some crap that has hit the fan, or if he is just overwhelmed and depressed. He said the past couple of days he didn't feel good but has no specific physical complaints really. He said he just had a lot on his mind or something. I asked him a simple question last night and he couldn't come up with an answer. It was strange.
Unlike the past, though, I am detached enough to just let him spin. Unless he decides to tell me what is going on, I don't have to and won't worry about it at all. I have enough else on my plate. So I am CHOOSING not to worry about what might be going on with him (though my imagination can run wild if it I let it) and just doing what I need to do.
I have to say, there are days I wish I could just grind up some ADs and put them in his food!
How are you?
Tf,
Sorry, didn't mean to hijack and make this about me. I did go to visit my folks over Thanksgiving and spent a bleak time thinking that if our days were numbered I would rather be at home with him, even if he was miserable, to try to soak up what time was left.(pathetic, I know) It was hard to enjoy my family and put on a happy face, and I also realized how NOT detached I am from him, since I worried about him the whole time. He also did not go to see his family, and spent 4 days by himself at home, probably drunk. I found out he lied to his parents and told them he went with me! He did seem happy to see me again when I got back. I am having a hard time with trying to detach and yet feel like I am not abandoning him.
As with everyone, there are days I want to throw in the towel, but then try to remember the roller coaster will go up again and he does ever so slowly seem to be moving towards me. I can't believe that its been a year, and he is still here. I'm not sure if that is good or bad.
You're a better person than I am. Sometimes I look really hard at my #12 cast iron skillet <wicked grin>
It's good to hear that you are choosing not to worry. What your mind can come up with tends to be the extremes.
I hope you have some nice plans for the upcoming holidays.
forever,
Whether it's good or bad that he's still there is up to you. Regardless, it's really hard with them home, so make sure you're taking care of yourself.
HUGS
No hijack, don't worry.
I am having a hard time with trying to detach and yet feel like I am not abandoning him.
I know the feeling. It is hard just letting them blow in the wind and not want to help, but the longer I do this the more I realize I really can't help, not now anyway. He just needs to figure it out.
Isn't it amazing how time passes? I am almost 9 months post bomb now, more than a year since he started acting crazy, and months before that I noticed something a bit "different" that I couldn't put my finger on. It is just one day at a time!
Grace,
Sometimes I look really hard at my #12 cast iron skillet <wicked grin>
Believe me, I have too!
At this point I am just trying to make it to the holidays - keeping plenty busy!! When the time gets here I will have to think of things with the kids.
You're right, worries are usually way worse than things are in actuality. My imagination certainly comes up with some interesting stuff .. .
Hey TF.....
Dam.....you sound really good.
Just checking in and saying hey.
And
Hey Gracie !!!! :p
TF, Forever, Grace
Been down the cast iron skillet road, the grinding up ADs road, the wanting to help but knowing I can't road, how far to detatch. I think there was even some talk of an alligator if I remember correctly. LOL
Can't do any of it but the thoughts still come. And then not so much anymore.
Funny how this works for all of us isnt' it? They say the same crap, we think the same crap. It is what it is.
Forever, plan your holiday for you, maybe with room for him, but no expectations either way.
TF, good choice to stay on the sidelines.
Grace, you crack me up.
Dam.....you sound really good.
Aww, thanks Mach! I am getting there . . . still have my moments (some days many) but realizing the future just may be bright whichever way this rolls.
We have missed you around these here boards. Welcome back!
Cat,
[quote]Funny how this works for all of us isnt' it? They say the same crap, we think the same crap. It is what it is. /quote]
It is crazy how it works. We cycle too for sure. I just know at some point something will have to give, whether it is soon or a long way down the road.
I just recaulked a shower. Yay me!:)
Hi TF,
Well done on the shower!
looks like you are managing to keep everything together, its good to see.
Good for you TF.
My hubby had a major blowout this weekend. He suddenly wanted to invite his parents for dinner, which I saw as a positive step since he hasn't wanted much to do with them for the past 2 years. Dinner started out ok, but when we got to 'are you coming to our house for Christmas" it quickly turned ugly. Heaven forbid you try to pin a MLC down! I tried not to get in the middle. They certainly know he has withdrawn from them, but they don't yet know about OW. So any type of 'what have you been up to?" questions get kind of awkward. I have been DB-ing for past 8 months and have seen improvements in him. However when his folks left in a huff its like he regressed months back. He seemed to spend most of the rest of the weekend 'chatting' with the OW on the computer. Any attempts I made to draw him out were like talking to an empty shell, so I left him alone. So one giant leap forward (reaching out towards parents, trying to resolve past issues) although unfortunately it backfired (parents don't want to admit mother previous mental illness while he was growing up caused rift). I'm not sure how to manage the holidays and my dissapointment with him racing back into the tunnel.
TF,
Happy Holidays sweetie. Miss you and hope you are well. We can catch up soon but I’m gonna borrow your thread for a minute.
Forever,
You handled the whole situation very well.
He may be trying to resolve the issues, may not. You don’t really know. Part of resolving these things, does not always involve the big “we were wrong, this did happen, and we are sorry” talk. Sometimes, it is simply that the hurt person accept what happened, determine that it doesn’t have to continue affecting them the way it has, forgive, and move on. That is exactly how your H may have to heal from the situation with his parents.
As I am sure you know, this is a very long road. And a very difficult one. My H has always been home and I have watched the baby steps out of the tunnel and the running back in more times than I care to count. That is what they do. So how do you handle the holidays? You do your very best to just enjoy the day for you, think of him with love, and hope that he is happy wherever he is, doing what ever it is that he may be doing. Only he can make his holiday, or any day for that matter, better for himself.
Attempting to draw them out, actually can make them run further away. That is pursuit. Let him flounder. When he is ready, he will talk to you and hopefully, you will be able to listen.
Have a Merry Christmas.
Attempting to draw them out, actually can make them run further away. That is pursuit. Let him flounder. When he is ready, he will talk to you and hopefully, you will be able to listen.
Cat this is very good advice. I like it.
Hey TF,
How are you doing? I do hope all is well.
Forever,
I linked some old archived threads on kjensen's thread (pg 24). I found them helpful with regards to MLC since they were written by the MLCer. The last 3 links were as he helped folks here to understand the other side of things. You might find them intersting and helpful.
Dear Grace-0, Pilot, Tf, Cat,
Thank you all for your advice, it helps to much to know that I am not alone. At work now so can't look at those threads, but thanks so much for the link. I'll try to see them later this week.
Thank you thank you thank you!
Hi all,
I am definitely going to go check out those threads Grace mentioned. I saw them on KJ's thread but was unable to check them out then.
Hi,Cat! Good to see you!
Okay, so things here are interesting. I have definitely seen many things lately that are "positives" yet really have been at this long enough to know not to get excited. My H is so much better with the kids now that he has been for most of the past year and for that I am so grateful. There are some positives with me too but definitely not the way he is connecting with the kids. He is definitely "here" more, both physically and mentally but at the same time seems more withdrawn, if that makes any sense.
He still seems to be trying to maintain that illusion of "control" in his life (like still not wanting to tell me much) which has so obviously spun out of control. Some of his bad financial decisions over the past year are starting to hit the fan and I am worried because it will directly affect me and the kids but am trying to just trust God to provide me with a new job or whatever when the time comes. He actually seems to be trying to take some responsibility for it now, though, which is a change. We'll see.
Sometimes it seems like he is processing like crazy, but it is up to him to decide what to do about it.
He looks so much more like himself, having gained back a good portion of the weight he lost on his MLC diet about a year ago. (I on the other hand have managed to keep off the 20 pounds I lost on my MLC diet!). He sleeps way more now, but doesn't seem to ever sleep well. He is always tired and doesn't look good.
Things are different now. He is cycling through different things and maybe, just maybe starting to realize stuff. I am different now. I am not offering help/support/whatever for anything, even this financial stuff. I have finally set a boundary and told him it is his responsibility. That is a total 180 for the way I have been pretty much our whole marriage. IF he wants to come to me and ask for help, I will be happy to help him but as long as he chooses to not treat me like a wife I won't offer that support.
Okay, that ended up being a pretty long post!
TF,
You, my friend, have grown so much in the past year.
Keep smiling, maintain your faith, maintaining your boundaries, and thriving!
Thanks, Cat! I have needed all the encouragement I could get. I do feel so much stronger and so much more able to take on what is thrown at me.
It has taken me awhile to figure out the whole boundary thing and how to go about it especially in regards to my MLCer but he is actually responding it seems.
Grace,
Thanks again for posting those links to happy again's threads. I started reading the last three but have to actually work now (I know, what a concept!) so will get back to it later. To be able to get any insight into the mind of an MLCer and what was going through their heads is such a gift! I can totally see that in my H's head as well, through his actions and even stuff he says when he is having moments of clarity.
TF,
You sound good and the boundary thing really does help. It can be tough and I know I really have to think about certain ones before so I don't reneg later.
It's fascinating to me to re-read happy_agains older threads b/c you can just feel the anger coming off in waves. I keep going back to his threads b/c it helps to to look at things from different angles depending on where I am at the moment.
Enjoy work, I guess I'd better get busy too.
HUGS
Grace,
I noticed that about the anger as well. Someone had told me to check out his threads a long time ago but I was having trouble finding them (I have a hard time figuring out the best way to search through archives and may have had his name a little bit wrong or something).
I do know I don't feel the anger directed at me any more by my H, at least outwardly, and haven't for months. I am extremely grateful for that. Really, it seemed to dissipate a great deal within a few weeks post bomb and was worse the weeks/months leading up to the bomb (and we are now at 9 months post - can't believe it!).
Okay, just venting because I am frustrated and impatient. I am ready for my H to pull his head out of wherever it is and man up and be the role model my son needs and had for most of his life. My S is starting to act up a lot it seems. He is not "bad", but is starting to get into trouble more at school, etc. He got in trouble at home this morning over something with his sister.
I do feel that the past few months of having an "absent" father is taking a toll on him and it is so hard to not say anything. My H is hanging around home today and heard about the trouble between my S and D. I was just upset at that point because I feel like I am doing my very best but I cannot be my S's dad, no matter how hard I try. My H went and talked to him. Then he came to talk to me and wanted to know what was bothering me. I am so tired of biting my tongue. Does he really not know? I did finally say something about how S seems to be more deeply affected by everything than he lets on most of the time. My H acknowledges that may be true and he was going to talk to him about stuff more, etc.
All that is going through my head is that talk is cheap, he needs to see things modeled to him. S is not stupid. I didn't say that, don't worry. He apparently still feels that all that is required of him as a parent is "talking to" his son and taking him to see a movie every few weeks. Yup, that will do it.
I am just venting here. I have to keep myself in check and realize how much better things are now than they were at the beginning of the year, that progress has been made, and that at times he seems like he is "waking up." I just miss the real H and the husband and father he was. SO MUCh better than the "new, improved" version of him. The stress of it and burden of it just sometimes is overwhelming.
TF,
Our situations sound so similar. No anger from my wife for a long time and we are friends. I also understand your frustration in the parenting department. I think of it this way, what kind of role model would I expect a 16 year old babysitter to be to my kids? I wouldn't so I don't expect my wife to be one either right now. I do notice her parenting skills cycle as well. There have been times I see the wonderful loving mother she has been and there are times she swears like a sailor around them.
S12 notices how at times she acts like a teenager and has major mood swings. He's also notices positive changes in her in the past few months as to how she acts towards them.
I guess what I'm saying is that it does suck to have to play the role of both parents. Hang in there.
D,
Thanks for checking in and for the reminder about their teenaged selves. That really does help me keep it in perspective. I do so much now seem to see the teenage H at war with the adult one. So much. It is like he wants to engage back into the "real" world sometimes but doesn't want to let go of that teenage "freedom." I guess he just isn't ready to and hasn't finished growing up yet.
It is good to see him acting like an adult and father sometimes. And it does suck to be both parents, but I am eternally grateful I am not the one who "walked out" on my kids and marriage and I don't have to live with that for the rest of my life.
It is interesting how your S12 notices her acting like a teenager. Kids are so much more perceptive than we give them credit for, I think.
So do you have any special plans for Christmas? Will your W be involved at all?
My wife is taking the kids to MIL's on Christmas Eve and is going to drop them off to me that night so I get them for Christmas Day.
I had a hard time with Thanksgiving but I'm actually going to be OK for Christmas. I understand now that me being involved in her family's gatherings was equating to pressure on her, so I can step back and let her have that time.
Sounds like you have a decent agreement for Christmas. I think I am going to have an easier time with Christmas than I did with Thanksgiving, too.
One day at a time . . .
That is the hardest part. Keeping that mentality especially when I see the glimpses.
Yup, those glimpses can make it harder to keep the focus. At the same time, they are what keeps me going.
I feel as mixed up as an MLCer sometimes!
Hi TF and D,
I can relate to what both of you are sharing. D had a good reminder that our spouses are in many ways emotionally like a teenager. The kids can pick up this. I shared alot about what MLC is with D12, only b/c I knew she didn't get what was going on. She actually is a pretty good observer of her Dad's 'teenage mindset' now. D14 just thinks MLC is an excuse for my continued hope that things will work out..
It is exhausting being the "only" parent most of the time.. reminder that we need to find our breaks when we can and fill up our tanks when we can.
I really am beginning to dislike almost all holidays now! LOL..more stress, more reminders of the major changes in our lives... I'm trying to keep a positive perspective about Christmas, but I'm not sure it'll last.
I am looking forward to seeing lots of good movies this break without the guilt H usually dished...! I guess its the little things that get us through.
Yes I would like to echo the thanks for posting HappyAgain's threads. It certainly is helpful to look into the MLC mind. I found that while reading those I wanted to say to him what I have wanted to say so often to my husband...."Wake up and get your head out of your xxxxx!" Of course it wouldn't have helped either one of them, and probably wouldn't have helped the situation either.
In really wonder how the holidays will go? My H has been much more of a bear lately, irritable, snappish. I am going to do my best to leave him alone as much as possible.
FHS,
I found that while reading those I wanted to say to him what I have wanted to say so often to my husband...."Wake up and get your head out of your xxxxx!"
I can't tell you how many times that has gone through my head!! Especially more lately as I see parts of my H slowly starting to "come back." This is such a very long journey.
Your H is still at home, right?
Yes TF, he still is.
I was just reflecting that this is just about 1 year post bomb (dec 7th). I didn't find the DB forums until April and since that time have been trying to apply the techniques and there has been improvement. He used to dissappear every weekend and sometimes during the week as well. I know he wasn't always seeing OW, she lives too far away. I was out GAL, would come home from my bellydance lessons(!) and he would be gone, just a note about "I HAVE to leave." Anyway, he has improved to the point that he only goes now about 2 weekends a month. I am hoping that things are burning out between the two of them. Last holidays were hard everything being so fresh and new and PAINFUL. This year I really am celebrating for ME and he'll have to either enjoy himself of not, as he sees fit. Only he can decide if he's going to be happy.
I hope your holidays are wonderful!
Finding fellow DBers with the MLCer still at home is tough. It makes me always be waiting for the other shoe to drop . . .
I am glad to see your H is home more! Hopefully slow and steady wins the race. My H is home way more than he was even a year ago (still pre-bomb).
I am with you - celebrating for me and the kids. We are excited. If he wants to come along for the ride, so be it. If he wants to tune out (like he did last Christmas), it is his loss.
Enjoy your holiday as well!
Okay, I think I am out of here until after Christmas. Thank you all for your support the past few months. I truly couldn't have done it without you. May your holiday season be blessed!
TF,
Thanks for your support this year as well! Hope you and your family have a wonderful Christmas! Hope to hear how it went after the holiday!
KJ, How was your Christmas? Did H spend it with you and the girls?
Mine was overall better than expected. On Christmas Eve H actually volunteered to run a couple of last minute errands for me. He hasn't done that for months and months. And of course it was greatly appreciated (and I told him so) so I didn't have to battle the crowds with the kids. He was around the whole time and waaaaaay more involved than last year, which I found interesting. Last year (still 3 months pre bomb) he had already been detaching from me and the kids in a big way and really wasn't involved with the festivities, other than his body being there. This year he played with the kids with their gifts, participated in our traditions, etc. It was nice, though there was definitely something "missing". I also got better gifts than expected as well (and at first I felt bad I had gotten him next to nothing but then didn't - he has spent so much on himself and he threw me to the curb as well).
He chose not to come to the extended family stuff yesterday (he will not see my parents) but that was his loss. We had fun. Still, when we got home I was so sad.
In a way, I am really glad the holidays are over now, Thanksgiving and Christmas. I was dreading them but they were okay . . .
Forever,
I just wanted to let you know that some of the comments you made over on Lost's thread (didn't want to hijack over there) were just what I needed to be reminded of as well today. I went to bed last night just being so fed up with this whole crazy ride, just wanting more, just wanting to feel "married" again. I was so ready to get off the ride and put it all behind me but your comments reminded me again why I am still here. So thanks.:) I wonder why I feel that way when things are so much better than they were months ago but I guess maybe the reality of the duration of this whole thing once in awhile really sinks in.
TF,
Glad to hear the holidays have turned out better than you expected.
I seems to be common that the LBS's cycle even when things seem to be better. It's a difficult path and there are times when some kind of closure any kind of closure is what gets stuck in our minds. Just to be over one way or the other. It can be hard at times to rein those fellings in.
My thought process involves not doing anything (or at least keeping it to a minimum) if I'm angry or upset. I still haven't settled into indifference or true peace, but it does come and go. It will come for good at some point.
HUGS
TF,
It does help to know others are in a similar situation. But I hear you, sometimes I read what I previously wrote to other people and I think "who is that woman - she sounds so strong!" and of course I still struggle daily inside. Also I can't believe it has been a year, my husband is so much better and there are still times I want to brain him with a frying pan for putting me through this. I keep thinking I have to look to the future, that hopefully, for the next 20-30 years we will spend together, this will just be a blip in the road. And although we'll never look back at it and laugh, someday he will thank and appreciate the effort I put into our marriage when he wasn't strong enough to.
((((Grace))))
Good to "see" you on here! How was your Christmas? Hopefully peaceful and full of joy.
I think that lack of closure is a killer. Not being able to see into the future to figure out whether I should cut my losses now or stick it out. It is a tough road to travel but there are rewards in it all, too.
Hope you are doing well!
Forever,
Looks like we are on a similar time line, too. It really is a daily struggle. Overall, I am doing pretty well most of the time but have those days and this time of year I have been struggling more obviously with the holidays and have had more teary times than I have in a while. It really seems that if H and I can get through this huge, ugly hurdle in the long run things could be even better. Of course, there are no guarantees but I am with you in hoping someday he realizes the effort I have put forth and my commitment. Right now I am doing this more for my kids, though, to be honest.
I am so sick of being "married" to a rebellious teen, though, that I want to scream some days. Trying to let it (and him) just go and be for right now . . .
TF,
Doing as well as I can. Life got messy, but I've got a broom and a mop, so we'll see what I can do. ;-)
Hi TF,
Christmas was OK. H came over at 7am and left by 10am. He started getting angry with me over stupid things(couldn't remember the logon mmediately for itunes)..Started getting touchy(I put a present that came for H with his bag of xmas "loot" and he thought I was getting ready for him to leave.)
Said he'd had too much spiced rum apple cider the night before with his cousin...seems to be a new (unfortunate) pattern.
Told me that Xmas was hard for him. He hated the light therapy lap I still gave him even though he gessed what it was earlier this month. Didn't bother to take it out of the box. He emailed me today that it hurt him that I still gave him the lamp. I DB'd back and apologized that he felt hurt.
H seems convinced that we are divorcing-no wavering at all. So I'm pretty sad and discouraged about this.
I think I messed up yesterday while texting H( he initiated). He told me he was looking at computers(to buy) and when I asked him, with a smiley face, if he was expecting a windfall from divorcing me..he got terse. Today he emailed me that the fact that I would even think that means I don't know him...
So the anger is back, the sensitiveness, it really stinks.
Sorry for the Hijacking..long answer.
I was hoping there'd be some indication of him missing us, maybe thats what the anger is about.
KJ -
Sorry Christmas was okay. Just try your best to detach from the anger. It isn't you. Eventually he will hopefully realize that you are not the source of his issues.
I think I would like a light therapy lamp!:) Especially in Jan/Feb when I am just DONE with winter already!
That detaching thing is so hard. I know that you said over on your thread that maybe the going dark may not be the best right now based on issues your H was having but can you mentally detach so that his moods can roll of your back? Sounds like overall you are doing well.
Me, I am just trying to make my list of goals for 2010 to make it a year about me (and the kids) and what I want to accomplish. No goals regarding my H, our R, etc. What happens with that happens, nothing can be forced.
Things are interesting, though. He is becoming more and more friendly and like himself. Over the past couple of weeks we have had a few "normal" conversations that have lasted more than a couple of minutes that had nothing to do with the kids, "business," etc. My H is giving me more and more spontaneous hugs and has been starting to take responsibility for some things he has let slide for months. Of course, a lot of that is lip service at this point - we will see if/when he follows through. The other day the kids were not home all day and he was home alone with me, didn't go out at all. Of course, we pretty much kept to ourselves but he did eat lunch with me and I was kind of surprised - thought he might take his food to eat in front of the TV since the kids weren't home. I have heard the words "thank you" more times in the past couple of weeks than I think I have in the past year.
I am veeeeeeery cautiously hopeful for the future, but know this could go either way and will be a long road still. As far as I can tell, he has not faced his demons yet and still has a LOT of growing up to do.
So, for now I am just doing my thing and letting him do his. I feel so much more relaxed around him now, which is a great feeling.
You sound really well!!
Keep doing your thing and try your best to be patient.
Thanks! For the most part I am doing really well, at least most of the time. Patience is something I have never been good at but I am getting better all the time! (apparently that is one of the lessons I am supposed to be learning.:)).
Well I hope everyone had a very Merry Christmas. Mine was wonderful. Visited with friends, family, got some beautiful gifts, watched as others smiled and laughed and loved and overall had a great time.
Grace,
You are in a good place right now. Don’t wish for that indifferent feeling. IF it is something you need to have, the point in time for it will come. You are as detatched as you need to be right now. And that is what is good.
TF,
Yes, we cycle, just like they do. Go with your cycles, recognize them for exactly what they are. Keep your eyes open and your mouth closed and you will be surprised at what you still have to learn.
I wish you all a very Happy New Year and many blessings in 2010.
Patience is something I have never been good at but I am getting better all the time! (apparently that is one of the lessons I am supposed to be learning.:)).
Well.....how long is THAT gonna take ????
Happy New Year TF.....I hope you and the kiddies have a great time with whatever you do....
Heya Cat....Glad you had a great holidays !
Originally Posted By: trustingfaith
Patience is something I have never been good at but I am getting better all the time! (apparently that is one of the lessons I am supposed to be learning.:)).
Well.....how long is THAT gonna take ????
I don't know, but it is taking too dang long! LOL!
The kids and I just have plans to be at home, make some Indian food for dinner, play games, and hang out and enjoy each other's company. Not sure what H's plans are.
Wishing you a very blessed 2010, Mach. Thanks for all your support.
Hi, Cat. As always, good to see you.:) I'm glad you had a wonderful Christmas.
Keep my mouth shut and see what else I have to learn?:) Some days I am just so DONE learning!:) Okay, not really, but it is tiring at times.
Wishing you a very blessed 2010. Thanks for all of your support. Will try to catch up with you in the alt one of these days!
Hi TF,
I think patience is another thing that I have to learn as well. For the 4 days around Christmas, H actually stayed home. He didn't want to do much, I tried to give him space although he did play some board games with me. Now this weekend 'poof' full MLC run away behavior. I'm spending the New Year with friends and I guess he has to try to find his own way. Started to get a bit hopeful with him being here 4 days with no major blowups - but now gone again. I should follow my own advice and remind myself that its a long road.
I hope your 2010 brings you all you wish for! I'm so ready to put 2009 to bed and hopefully never to have to relive some of that anxiety, pain and anger again.
Forever,
Yup, I am also very familiar with the MLC running away! My H was so good at that, and fortunately it is getting a lot less noticeable. Anytime he spent any time with the family or did anything that might be perceived as "nice" he would "disappear" for a couple of days. He doesn't seem to do that so much now at all. He is still away from home more than is good for the kids but that is his problem and his loss.
Christmas Eve here we did our usual family traditions which focus on the religious aspect and then the kids were sitting on the couch cuddling with me and H was sitting in a different chair. My D looks over at him and said, "Daddy, you should be sitting over here, too." Truer words were never spoken! He didn't say anything and didn't come over, but the kids and I just playing and talking and laughing together. He kept getting up and leaving the room and then coming back in, sitting down, leaving again. It was almost like he wasn't sure how he belonged anymore.
I am glad you made plans for NYE and didn't wait on your H. I'm also glad he was home with you on Christmas. It is hard to remain patient when they seem so much more like themselves isn't it? I am seeing so much more of the man my H used to be these days that it is hard not to want to push. In my mind though I know there are no guarantees and I want him to work through his issues.
I am with you on putting 2009 to bed. It has truly been the worst year of my life and I am ready for a clean slate so to speak. I am planning on making my 2010 the best it can be and looking forward to it!
Happy New Year to you, too!
Thanks TF,
Well, normally when H runs away, I don't really hear from him except when he is on his way back from where ever. I'll get an email like "I'll be home at 5 - what's for dinner" as if him running away is just a routine thing. This time on New Years Eve, at 12:11 I get this email "Happy New Year, Miss Kitty. I love you". Miss Kitty was always his nickname for me. It was nice to get the ILY, but I also know you can't believe what they say or write. Is he with OW? No idea. Would he write to me from his phone with her standing there? I know we're not supposed to try to analyze things that they do but this seems like such a step in my direction I'm trying not to get my hopes up too much. If he loves me, why does he have to run away?
You are so right - he seems like he's more like he used to be, the real husband, not the space alien, and I can't understand why he just can't wake up. Kind of like what your D said "you should be here with us" - I wonder why they can't seem to see that. (sorry, just ranting)
Hope your weekend is going well.
Forever,
Wow, it sounds like we are in a very similar phase of all of this. I haven't heard an ILY for months and months now though. That running they do, it is from themselves and their issues, trying so desparately to find happiness. It is so hard not to take it personally though.
It is frustrating that they just can't see it, especially when they seem so "close" to the way they were. My H seems so much like himself yet we still live very separate lives right now (absolutely his choice). So he is still out there.
Hi Trusting!
I see we're new friends in the alt! Your kids are darling... Your daughter is your double, and your son appears to be your H's double!!
I only remember seeing your name around... nothing about you, so now I have someone to catch up on tonight!!!
Thanks for friending me!
Mindfull,
Thanks for your comments about my kids.:) Lucky for them, they both have their daddy's eyes. It was suggested to me that I should "friend" you in the alt.:)
I have followed your story along.
Trusting... I just logged back on, and here you are!
You have followed my story? Did you fall asleep? Not a lot of movement!!!
I read your thread tonight. We are in the same boat, kind of... Hey, I still have a warm body in my bed! What good that does is beyond me!!!???!!!
Anyways, I wanted you to know that I think you could benefit by what I'm working on in parallel. BOUNDARIES. I've only recently started calling H out on his "comments" or surly mood, when the time arises (not very often anymore, but I'm DONE w/that!). And, we had a parenting hiccup w/my D18 that I had to lay down a boundary about... he's playing along nicely... But, the next one will be harder.
You need some boundaries, too. Coming and going. Nice, communicative, pain in the rear, involved, distant, laughing, grumbling. It's not a way to live.
Come along, my friend, into 2010!!
Boundaries are a good thing and I am working on trying to form some. It has taken me awhile to get to this point but here I am . . . I am trying to sort out the best way to do this in the midst of the MLC. One thing I don't let him do anymore is project onto me. Fortunately that almost never happens these days. Actually, hasn't for awhile.
I started reading the book Boundaries. Didn't get very far, I just really don't have the time, but so far so good!
The thing is, so much has improved around here that life is easier than it has been for a very long time.
For sure, my 2010 is about taking care of me!
trusting,
Glad to hear that things have improved. May it continue that way.
I probably should read that book too. May have to wait awhile though.
HUGS
Hey Trusting!! How are you today???
Grace, hoping the improvements keep going!
Mindfull, thanks for checking in. I was actually doing pretty well today and then a wave of sadness hit me tonight again. Nothing particular happened, I just felt sad about the situation in general.
So someone remind me, these MLCers really don't see the hurt they are causing?
I don't think it's necessarily that they don't see or comprehend on some level, but that they are hurting so badly thenselves, they will do anything to try and stop their own pain.
HUGS
TF,
I have spent the last few days reading your thread, 53 pages is a lot. It took a while. Now I have caught up to where I started posting. It is amazing the journey we have taken. I learn a lot by following everyone else. Having a live-in also is interesting, although they are so depressed inside their tunnel.
You have made great progress, I enjoyed the part where you were afraid to post on anyone else's thread because you didn't know anything. I guess that has changed!
Keep up the good work.
OP,
Thanks for your kind words and for taking the time to read through the 53 pages. That is a lot! I just posted over on my new thread which is nowhere near that long.:)
Having a live in is a completely different ball of wax and in some ways harder, though for the kids (mine are still young) it is good that they get to see their daddy at least fairly regularly these days.
I think someone finally clued me in to the fact that I could post on other threads even if I didn't feel like "knew" enough and didn't have any real advice just to show support. Really, that is what so many are looking for - just simple support for this crap we are dealing with.
Hey TF....
How is that patience thing goin for ya ?
Sometimes all one needs is knowing there is someone else that understands.....
You AND OP should be proud of the work you have been doing, and yes.....
post to others, you never know when you are gonna be someones angel for the day......
Hey Mach,
The patience thing is . . . going. Frankly, there are other areas of my life I am a bit more impatient with than the MLC thing at the moment. I am looking for a new job but feel so "stuck" in that area. I am at the mercy of the job market though doing what I can. At least I have some say in that situation.:) Sort of. But, I am grateful to have a job.
It is true - you never know what you post that may just be what someone needed to hear. I was reading over in newcomers this morning and was smacked in the head by a thread over there - just what I needed to be reminded of today!
How are you today, Trusting???
We missed each other on the alt!!
I was just poppin' in to say hi!
Did you read about my boundary???? I ask because you and I are in similar situations, kinda sorta... you know...
Cat04, do you really think that if they want out they will just leave, even if they claim finances keep them in the house?
The reason I ask is my MLC'er is still at home. I know I shouldn't focus too much on what he does and doesn't do, but some days are really hard and I need to look for something positive. Anything. Even it's just him being in the house. I want so badly for this to mean something positive. Ugh. I feel like such a loser.
FightOn,
Oh, my! This is an oldie from back in 2009 and should have been locked years ago because it is over the 100 posting/reply limit. However, even though I'm not Cat04, I'm going to respond and then lock this thread because it's over the 100 posting/reply limit.
Many of them will leave no matter whether their finances will keep them in the house or not. They are desperate and in some cases they claim to not able to breathe in their homes or feel like they are dying. Some are filled w/panic/anxiety. This is the depression talking. Some will say that they want a divorce and are looking for a place to live, but will not leave. Some use the excuse that they can't find a place to their liking or that they will stay until the children are grown, etc. Some will stay and provoke the spouse hoping that he/she will open the door and shove them out, hence, making them look like the victim and the good person in all of this.
Also, if the spouse expects the MLCer to straighten up, or puts too much pressure on them or asks questions, etc., many of them will leave immediately, especially if the affair comes to light and confront them w/the evidence. It's difficult to predict which ones will up and leave and who will remain in the home for the duration.
As I have posted to you today, you need to keep the focus on yourself, your child and your job. If he's talking divorce and hasn't made a move to leave, then I'd leave well enough alone. I truly want you to think about my question and you can respond on your thread...what do you want? Do you want him to remain in the home, acting out as such and can you put up w/it, i.e., example...HaWho? Can you do this? Or, would you prefer him to leave?