She said she wants a divorce and that it’ll cost $100 and that when she gets the money she’ll get it, and that i have one month to move out, she won’t say i love you back or kiss me or show any affection/connection, and it’s like she’s trying to say stuff just to hurt me (such as i can’t wait until i have the bed to myself, better get used to not having me to sleep with, etc.) She still uses my money, it took her a long time to be comfortable with my buying or paying for her stuff so i don’t think she would still use it if she was going through with it, she’s not the type of person to use people and i consider that to still be true today. She also still has us as married on fb, and instead of paying for the divorce she bought stuff. I really want to make things work and am ready/wanting to change now. She says it’s too late and nothing will change how she feels. I understand how i hurt her, and all her past grievances (that i need to man up, communicate, be more affectionate, focus and try and do more stuff for our relationship, and be someone she can trust). Is it too late? What can i do? Could she be testing me? Please help, any advice will be greatly appreciated
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Don't move out unless a judge tells you that you must
Stop telling her you love her bc right now it just reminds her that she feels differently.
Protect yourself financially ASAP. You giving her money won't win her back and actually deepens her disrespect for you.
$100 divorce? Highly doubt it. You need to take a couple free consultations with lawyers around you.
It's not too late but if she said it's over you need to accept her decision for now. She's clearly hurting and confused. Read all those links a few times. Read other stitches here. Be prepared for the affair to rear its ugly head. Your W is reading from the same script as the others. Tell us some more details like ages, how long together, kids, other details.
Sorry you're here.
Read everything. Read everyones situation here. Stop all pursuit. She has made her decision so respect it. stop pleading and begging. Just back off. It feels very counterintuitive. But its the best thing for you to do.
Time to start focusing on yourself. Better yourself. it hurts and its going to hurt for a long time. But the faster you start working on your happiness, the faster you will feel better no matter what happens.
and that i have one month to move out
Unless it's a house that she owned outright prior to the marriage or an apartment in her name only, then as Cadet said don't move. She can't make you move and if you do she will just lose even more respect for you. Stay put. If she wants separation so bad then she can leave. Several guys here have ignored this advice and came to regret it later.
she won’t say i love you back or kiss me or show any affection/connection, and it’s like she’s trying to say stuff just to hurt me (such as i can’t wait until i have the bed to myself, better get used to not having me to sleep with, etc.)
This unfortunately is not unusual for a WAS. Have you read Divorce Remedy yet? Please get it and read it. Do not let your wife see it or see you reading it, it's strictly for you.
Please clarify, does she have a job? Are you giving her money hoping it will gain you favor in her eyes, or is she using it to pay household bills?
it took her a long time to be comfortable with my buying or paying for her stuff so i don’t think she would still use it if she was going through with it, she’s not the type of person to use people and i consider that to still be true today.
She's not the same person, she will do things that seem completely out of character.
She says it’s too late and nothing will change how she feels.
That's just how she feels right now, it can and will change with time. You've got to be patient, it takes a while.
I understand how i hurt her, and all her past grievances (that i need to man up, communicate, be more affectionate, focus and try and do more stuff for our relationship, and be someone she can trust). Is it too late?
It's not too late, marriages have come back from far worse. But you can't work on those things right now. To her it's all "too little too late", she doesn't want you to fix those things, she's just telling you why it's over.
What can i do? Could she be testing me?
She's not testing you, right now she really is done. But like I said that can change with time. For now read the book, read all of Cadet's links above, start working on yourself. Good luck and keep posting.
So how do i not pursue her without sending the message that i’m done or coming across as too harsh? She has a job but gets broke after bills so she has to use my money for food or bills still due, we had moved houses a few months ago so she could afford to live on her own, but it appears she can’t afford it. She let me come back and stay with her, but things haven’t improved since then, she said she feels anxious and depressed around me so she’s been making a lot of plans without me to stay out of the house. She does suffer from anxiety and has to take zoloft 100mg, she’s been on it for about a year and a half. She is doing stuff i don’t like like snap chatting other guys, changing her phone password so i can’t see it even though i don’t try to, i want to talk about it without attacking her or over stepping, i know she wouldn’t cheat, that’s one thing that attracted me to her was her loyalty. I’ve cut back on saying i love you to twice a day, morning then at night, she always responds with just goodbye or goodnight, i really want to be able to kiss and hold her but she doesn't want to, i still want to do nice things for her and give her sweet surprises to let her know i was thinking about her, but i also want her to respect me, and trust me, and think of me as a man. I haven’t been initiating texts or anything the past few days, only responding to hers.
Unless it's a house that she owned outright prior to the marriage or an apartment in her name only, then as Cadet said don't move. She can't make you move and if you do she will just lose even more respect for you. Stay put. If she wants separation so bad then she can leave. Several guys here have ignored this advice and came to regret it later.
This is sound advise.
Same things goes for the master bedroom. Do not move out. If she needs space from you, she can sleep elsewhere.
W:"Go sleep on in the spare room"
H"I am sleeping here. I would prefer if you sleep here, but you can sleep where you choose"
Then shut up and validate her feelings.
W:"Bla bla bla hate you bla bla bla Controlling bla bla bla!!! "
H"I am sorry you feel that way"
or
W:"Fine!"
H:Crickets
i know she wouldn’t cheat, that’s one thing that attracted me to her was her loyalty.
Would she consider it cheating if she's already said she wants a divorce and the marriage can't be fixed, she's cut off affection, and she's spending her evenings away? You say she's Snapchatting other men. You know her better than us, but from the few bits you shared, that doesn't sound far away.
I'm sorry you're in a difficult situation. I hope you find the patience to persevere and be a better you.
So how do i not pursue her without sending the message that i’m done or coming across as too harsh? She has a job but gets broke after bills so she has to use my money for food or bills still due, we had moved houses a few months ago so she could afford to live on her own, but it appears she can’t afford it. She let me come back and stay with her, but things haven’t improved since then, she said she feels anxious and depressed around me so she’s been making a lot of plans without me to stay out of the house. She does suffer from anxiety and has to take zoloft 100mg, she’s been on it for about a year and a half. She is doing stuff i don’t like like snap chatting other guys, changing her phone password so i can’t see it even though i don’t try to, i want to talk about it without attacking her or over stepping, i know she wouldn’t cheat, that’s one thing that attracted me to her was her loyalty. I’ve cut back on saying i love you to twice a day, morning then at night, she always responds with just goodbye or goodnight, i really want to be able to kiss and hold her but she doesn't want to, i still want to do nice things for her and give her sweet surprises to let her know i was thinking about her, but i also want her to respect me, and trust me, and think of me as a man. I haven’t been initiating texts or anything the past few days, only responding to hers.
Unless you have a non traditional marriage, she is already cheating. Emotional affairs are affairs. And with her staying out all the time I can only imagine where this has gone. By that I mean that it may be more than emotional. Just prepare for the fact that she has been with someone else. 99% of the situations here involve a OM/OW and yours does too.
You want her to respect you, but you don't even respect yourself right now. She's out running around, spending your money b/c she's not responsible enough to cover her bills, talking to god knows how many guys, and yelling at you about BS. But here you come with "I love you's" and a sweet surprise. This is not attractive. She said she wants out you need to respect that decision. You need to be the one going out and enjoying life and not thinking about her all the time. So, stop telling her I love you, stop pursuing her, and go GAL (get a life) with your friends. Make new friends even.
You don't be mean about it, but put yourself first. You are getting taking advantage of big time. And you aren't going to talk your way out of this either. Give it time, give her space, focus on you.
Good advice from R2C, CW and ovr there. Read it a few times and absorb it.
So how do i not pursue her without sending the message that i’m done or coming across as too harsh?
She's treating you like crap and engaging in AT LEAST emotional affairs if not physical, and you're worried she'll think you are done?? Read DR. Read Cadet's links. Learn what the "distance/pursuit" dynamic is. You WANT to get to a point where she thinks you are done and detached. She'll never want you back otherwise.
She has a job but gets broke after bills so she has to use my money for food or bills still due, we had moved houses a few months ago so she could afford to live on her own, but it appears she can’t afford it. She let me come back and stay with her
So you already moved out once? And then came back, and now she wants you out again? Don't leave again. As far as expenses, don't just give her unlimited funds. Come up with an agreement regarding bills, you pay half and she pays half or you have a joint account used for paying bills or such. Nail down a budget amount and stick that in the joint account each month and not a penny more.
but things haven’t improved since then, she said she feels anxious and depressed around me so she’s been making a lot of plans without me to stay out of the house.
Good! Let her make the plans, let her go do whatever. Don't ask her where she's going or what she's doing. Are you familiar with Sandi's rules?
i know she wouldn’t cheat, that’s one thing that attracted me to her was her loyalty.
She's not the person she used to be. I can't tell you how many times people have said that and then a month or two or three later been shocked into the reality that their W has been having a good ol' time with one or more OM's. Like ovr said, if she's snapchatting guys then she's already in at least an emotional affair. And I guess you know cheaters love snapchat because they can share photos and messages that are not traceable. People don't snapchat to talk about the weather and their kids.
I’ve cut back on saying i love you to twice a day, morning then at night, she always responds with just goodbye or goodnight
That's a clear signal you need to quit saying it.
i really want to be able to kiss and hold her but she doesn't want to
I get it, but you've got to bury those urges.
i still want to do nice things for her and give her sweet surprises to let her know i was thinking about her
Doing those things will make her even more repulsed by you. That's how she feels, that's how most WAS's feel about their H- repulsed. They don't want to talk, they don't want to hug, they don't even want to be in the same room. It can and will eventually change, but right now that's what you are up against. So act accordingly. Be scarce. Leave her alone. Give her space.
, but i also want her to respect me, and trust me, and think of me as a man
You won't believe it, but you do that by detaching and going about living life without her. She will respect you for it. But if you keep pursuing it just looks needy and desperate. And that's unattractive.
I haven’t been initiating texts or anything the past few days, only responding to hers.
Good! Keep it up for months and months. You can do this.
So how do i know if she is cheating? Do i ask her later on when everything is better or do i try to catch her in the act
Also her dad died suddenly in december, could that have a part in this?
Also her dad died suddenly in december, could that have a part in this?
We don't know the timeline, but yeah major life changes such as a death in the family can nudge us to revisit the choices we've made in our lives and seize the day.
I haven’t said i love you today or yesterday and things seem to be better already, she seems more cheerful around me again. I cooked her breakfast this morning before she got up for work, she said thank you for the food and stuff. Today she asked if i was going to this 4th of july event with her and her family. Is all this a good sign?
Hey man. I haven’t posted on anybody’s thread yet but I feel the urge to now. My W went through an emotional trauma Right before BD.
Something small I’ve learned from the wise folks here. Don’t forget who you are. You are your own person. Your a man. Don’t forget that
If you read me sitch you will see me derailing a lot. But try to stay steady.
I have no idea if this helps or not
I just wanted you to know your not alone.
Happy 4th. 💥
I haven’t said i love you today or yesterday and things seem to be better already, she seems more cheerful around me again. I cooked her breakfast this morning before she got up for work, she said thank you for the food and stuff. Today she asked if i was going to this 4th of july event with her and her family. Is all this a good sign?
Hey JB. Its going to take a very long time for you to see changes. Its not something thats going to happen overnight. This is a marathon and not a race. Some peoples situations take years to play out. My situation for example, BD in August 2018, confirmation of EXWW PA October 31, 2018, IHS from September 24, 2018, to June 1, 2019, when I moved out.
Divorce filed March 27, 2019, and finalized May 17, 2019, five days after my 18th anniversary.
In that time, I saw no changes. That doesnt mean you wont, but even my timeframe is considered short.
Just keep DBing. Back off, leave her alone. Live your own life away from her. Make changes to better yourself. Do things that make you happy. Stop worrying about what she is doing, what she thinks. Stop making decisions based on how she will react.
Stop cooking her breakfast. Stop doing everything. She needs to feel that you are backing away from her and that you are not a backup plan or plan b. She needs to see that you are going to be ok alone and that you are ok with being alone and that you will be a man only a fool would leave. Did you buy the DR book? If not, do it. Read it. Then read it again.
I’m seeing a few steps forward and a few steps back, yesterday after the 4th of july event she was going out with her friends and i was thinking i had to drop them off then pick them up so they could drink, but to my surprise when i stayed in the car and was about to leave she asked what am i doing, and then i understood that she was expecting me to come along too, granted they didn’t stay out long and i didn’t have a chance to get a word in during their girl talk, it felt good that she was including me without me asking, could this be a step in the right direction?
She keeps saying i act like nothing happened, how do i change this and why does she think that’s how i’m acting? I’m trying to be positive around her and happy to see her, among other things
It’s hard , but in the early stages is when you have the best chance of turning things around .. There’s a detachment thread that shows the path . Your gut instinct will be to do the opposite. This will be the hardest test you can face bit without removing emotions from your decisions you are going to follow a path that will lead you the wrong way . I know it is hard and you are going to fall but you need to be stronger than you ever have been before .
It’s up to you , can you do what needs to be done ?
JB,
you should have plans on times like these instead of tagging along on hers with no plans. So in the future, make your own plans first. Not that you can't ever do anything together, just take care of you first.
As for her saying you are acting strange, well you just got told you can get a divorce for $100. Maybe you shouldn't be acting happy to see her. That's not detachment.
JB... Stop being her doormat and trying to “nice” her back. IT WON’T WORK. If you believe anything, believe that. You have to detach and GAL. Treat her like you would a neighbour or a co-worker... polite, respectful but not overly emotionally involved. Make plans, get out of the house...make her wonder what you are up to. Don’t do it to win her back. Do it to get you back. If she comes back and you still want her, that’s a bonus. Trust the people on here. Think about what is attractive... a guy hovering around hoping you will toss him a few crumbs or a guy who is confident and too busy to worry about what you are doing. Trust me... it is the latter. “You always want what you can’t have”... this is just human nature. Good luck.
What if she’s putting all her unhappiness on me because i’m the easiest part of her life to change? She can’t change her dad being dead, no matter how unhappy or depressed she is about it, she can change jobs but she would still have to have money coming in so finding another job would be too risky and could put her back in the same position, then there’s me, she doesn't need me, so it’s easy to peg all her unhappiness, depression, and anxiety on me then cut me out with the hope that she will be cutting out all that bad stuff in her life when she does..could that be it? She’s been late for work a lot since her dad died, and that’s very unlike her, if she’s late or calls out one more time she’s fired. She told me that and i offered to help make sure she gets up on time, normally she gets up on her own..could i be right? And if so, what can i do to make her realize why she’s really unhappy and depressed
What if she’s putting all her unhappiness on me because i’m the easiest part of her life to change? She can’t change her dad being dead, no matter how unhappy or depressed she is about it, she can change jobs but she would still have to have money coming in so finding another job would be too risky and could put her back in the same position, then there’s me, she doesn't need me, so it’s easy to peg all her unhappiness, depression, and anxiety on me then cut me out with the hope that she will be cutting out all that bad stuff in her life when she does..could that be it? She’s been late for work a lot since her dad died, and that’s very unlike her, if she’s late or calls out one more time she’s fired. She told me that and i offered to help make sure she gets up on time, normally she gets up on her own..could i be right?
Jb - I went through 100 different theories and in the end it doesn't matter. You are right - she is pegging you as the cause of her unhappiness. So what can you do about it? Definitely don't try to convince her she is wrong, that will only convince her she is right.
One of the points of DB-ing is to move on with your life. Maybe then she will realize,
on her own, that you didn't cause all the unhappiness.
And if so, what can i do to make her...
STOP right there mister =) ! You can't make her anything. You can't make her feel anything, do anything, nothing. Let her be. What is, is. "Make her" = Control, that attitude alone is a problem in this situations.
So will she realize that i’m not the source of her unhappiness? Is there anything i can do to help her realize that?
You didn't break her and you can't fix her.
But to address Unchiens post I'd recommend reading the chapter "It takes one to tango". You don't have carte blanche over her, but you can help her realize this IMO. The best way to do is to remove yourself from the equation. If you aren't part of the equation that should magically fix things right? When things still suck then she may realize it's not all you..and she may deny it forever which is why you should detach.
A few updates, she got me a draw on map for my upcoming birthday (i love maps), the other night she told me where she was going and who she was going with, without me asking or anything. She’s had me be a DD some of the nights she goes out, and also it’s like she’s starting to depend on me to make sure she gets up on time. She also gave me a task to do for monday, taking her car to get the brakes checked. Then today as i was laying down she asked if i was going to go in the kitchen to talk to her grandmother who was visiting for dinner.. she hasn’t had any flare up of talks about divorce of me leaving. Is this a good sign that things are improving? Or just wishful thinking on my part? I had a thought, she’s always been really good at saving and budgeting money, so if she wanted to get a divorce she would’ve been able to by now, but she keeps buying stuff, if i leave she definitely won’t be able to afford it since she’ll have to pay more on all the bills. She also still has us as married on facebook, and her mom and grandmother aren’t acting any different towards me even though my wife said she had told her family..So to ask again, is this a good sign or wishful thinking?
JB it’s typically frowned upon to be always available for her. How will she have a chance to miss you if you are always available to her. I know you feel like you need to help her, but she expressed that she no longer wants you as a husband, so why should you still do things for her that a husband does for a wife. She wants to fire you as a husband, then she shouldn’t have you available to do husbandly things for her. I think you need to be busier with GAL.
Often times things improve when you remove pressure. But at the end of the day it will be her decision to work on the M or to end the M. All you can do is become the best JB you can, 180, GAL, remove pressure and PMA.
I knows it’s tough man. I did well DBing for a month and a half. Things were immensely better and she was even intimate with me. But she still moved out. Things may seem good or bad at times but it won’t help your emotional well-being to read into her words or actions. Try not to worry about what she is thinking. It will get easier with time.
Why is she sending mixed signals? Good things happen but then today she said we need to talk discuss the living arrangements.. that knocked me back down, i don’t even know what to say or how to react. I’ve been trying to do the right things and improve myself, i even handled things very well when she brought this up last week, the living arrangements and divorce. I let her know i’m devoted to changing for myself as well as for her so i can still be happy no matter what she decides. She’s been very unlike herself, hasn’t been saving money or spending wisely, oversleeping, like she’s a different person.
Could her meds be a contributing factor?
JB,
What kind of mixed signals is she giving?
Could her meds be a contributing factor?
Go back and read my threads. I tried to blame my W's behavior on her meds too. It isn't the meds (at least not entirely).
Why is she sending mixed signals? Good things happen but then today she said we need to talk discuss the living arrangements.. that knocked me back down, i don’t even know what to say or how to react. I’ve been trying to do the right things and improve myself, i even handled things very well when she brought this up last week, the living arrangements and divorce. I let her know i’m devoted to changing for myself as well as for her so i can still be happy no matter what she decides. She’s been very unlike herself, hasn’t been saving money or spending wisely, oversleeping, like she’s a different person.
Welcome to the world of the WAW/WW! They are a roller-coaster of words, emotions, and actions. Read other people's sitches here and you will see the same behaviors pretty much across the board.
jb, did you read Cadet's links in his welcome message? If not, do yourself a huge favor, go to the top of forum and click on that thread. Read all of the links. Thoroughly. Take notes if you need to. The fact that you asked this questions makes me question if you have a good grasp of the dynamics at play here.
One other thing. DROP the "as well as for her so i can still be happy no matter what she decides". Working on you should be solely for you. If she takes notice and likes the changes, great. If not, just as well! So many LBSs do the checking over their shoulder while DBing to gauge if that is having an effect. WASs are notoriously good at rooting out this manipulative behavior. They will see it as you changing for show, instead of changing for real and permanently. Many of us were accused of changing "just to get me to change my mind" during our sitches. This is why words are meaningless.
Don't tell her that with your changes she can be happy no matter what she decides......show that to her. The best way to do that is to institute the changes whether she notices or not. Whether she reacts positively or negatively to them. In other words, change because YOU need to change. Regardless of her.
Remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint. You can't change in a few days or weeks what took years to get into. Dig in for the long haul. Remember all of the things you learn in reading the welcome links.
One last thing, it appears you are watching her like a hawk. "She’s been very unlike herself, hasn’t been saving money or spending wisely, oversleeping, like she’s a different person." At this point you shouldn't even be noticing that! You should be GAL, detaching and working on cementing your 180s. The fact that you are watching her so closely will make her feel like a caged animal. That is pressure and pursuit. You have to let her go to get her back.
JB. Sorry to hear you’re having troubles mate, but you’re in the best place. And trust me- the advice you’ve been getting is spot on. I’m a little further on than you but I did all the begging, pleading, crying, buying presents etc. It didn’t work. It made my W feel pressured, it reinforced that I was the problem she needed to get away from. I’m still going through all this and I’m certainly several levels below the experts on here but TAKE THEIR ADVICE! My wife was messaging guys. I saw some of her messages and the minute I did, I realised I knew what she was up to but I couldn’t confront her as I’d been ‘snooping’. Trust your gut instinct. BUT act like you don’t care. If she is cheating she won’t stop just because you know or ask her to. The only thing that will stop her is having a better option at home so detach and GAL. And if she isn’t cheating, you accusing her will make things worse and drive her to another guy. Jealousy and insecurity are not attractive.
Well if she’s already cheating how are you going to drive her to another guy. I would also argue that sharing your W with another man without consequences isn’t attractive either.
JB,
What kind of mixed signals is she giving?
She’s saying all these things about she’s done and divorce and me having to be out by the end of the month, but then her actions say otherwise.
How much stock should i put into “believe nothing she says and only half of what she does”? How does that apply?
Give me examples of actions that say otherwise?
You’re not moving out are you?
Give me examples of actions that say otherwise?
You’re not moving out are you?
She still uses my debit card some, she hasn’t been saving money even though she would have to so she could afford a divorce, over the past few days she’s been asking if i want to go with her to see a movie with one of her friends, or out to eat with one of her friends, told me where she was going and who with when i didn’t ask anything about it, bought me something i would like for my birthday, trying to get me to talk to her family more (not about anything going on between us, just general conversations), still has us as married on facebook, is giving me until the end of the month to move out when she could just tell me to leave now, was looking for her ring, has been depending on me to make sure she gets up on time (her job is depending on it, if she’s late one more time she’s fired), instead of going ahead with the divorce process she’s been putting it off and spending money on shopping and drinks and other things..there has been more stuff but that is all off the top of my head, i know it’s a lot to read. She really can’t afford to not have me there financially or cleaning/taking care of the house wise. Today she said we need to discuss living arrangements then said she needs to know what my plans are and that i need to let her know these things
Jb - What helped me accept "Believe none of what they say and half of what they do" is trying to come up with the opposite conclusion from what I hoped was the truth.
Some of the below responses sound tongue-in-cheek and obviously they could be completely false, but my point is valid - I can come up with an explanation that is different from yours.
She still uses my debit card some
Cake-eating (money)
she hasn’t been saving money even though she would have to so she could afford a divorce
Denial of financial reality
over the past few days she’s been asking if i want to go with her to see a movie with one of her friends, or out to eat with one of her friends
Friend zone, let him down easy
told me where she was going and who with when i didn’t ask anything about it
Diversion - throw him off the scent
bought me something i would like for my birthday
Friend zone, let him down easy
trying to get me to talk to her family more (not about anything going on between us, just general conversations)
Friend zone
still has us as married on facebook
Technically true, don't want to deal with changing status then having to explain to everyone in her life what is going on
is giving me until the end of the month to move out when she could just tell me to leave now
Friend zone, let him down easy
Pawn shop?
has been depending on me to make sure she gets up on time (her job is depending on it, if she’s late one more time she’s fired)
Cake-eating
instead of going ahead with the divorce process she’s been putting it off and spending money on shopping and drinks and other things
Denial of financial reality
She really can’t afford to not have me there financially or cleaning/taking care of the house wise.
Denial of financial reality
Let me give you a crazy example of this. I turned 40 in May. My W had her "college friends" coming to visit and was setting up spare beds. I swore she was going to have her brother come instead, to "protect" her in case I flipped out when she BD'ed me. People thought I was paranoid. Instead... 4 of my close friends surprised me, she had arranged for them to have a weekend bash at my house. It was very thoughtful and a great weekend. Then... a month later, she BD'ed me, and surprised me by having her brother come to the house to "protect" her in case I flipped out.
So... she was nice to me on my birthday. That doesn't mean squat. Your W can still care for you a great deal and still want a D.
JB,
So you seem happy that she needs to keep you around for your money and to be her butler???WTF????
Unchien is correct on probably 90 percent of his comments.
I’ll ask again. Why do you believe she has the right to throw you out? Is your name on the house?
Until you start to respect yourself and command respect from her you are toast my friend.
LH19 - it was the pawnshop one that you disagreed with right?
So yesterday she asked what my plans are as far as living arrangements and said that was always part of the problem was that i never communicated or talked or anything. I told her i understand her feelings on it but i don’t want to leave. She said she is getting a divorce when she gets paid next and that i can stay longer but with different sleeping arrangements, and that i could turn the garage into something for myself ( and no I’m not gonna let her put me in the garage). I told her a bunch of stuff, basically told her how i feel about everything, i had been holding it in and avoiding that convo with her. She said she considers herself single and that i make her anxiety and depression worse and that i did it again so she said she was going out with her friends to get away from the house and me. The weird thing is that after all that we were both in the kitchen and she cooked, i told her thank you for cooking dinner and that i missed her cooking and that it tasted good, i had been the only one cooking, she said i was just trying to suck up. Then after that she asked if i could do her a favor and get her a energy drink from the store and if i would be the DD for her and her friends, what’s even weirder to me is that even tho i supposedly made her anxiety act up she was talking to me more after that, not about relationships or anything bad, but about funny stuff and some of the times she went out with her friends here recently and just telling me all about those times and other things. She also cleaned today for the first time in a while and told me things i need to do (with my clothes and other stuff in one of the rooms).To me it feels like that convo where i opened up and let loose tore down the wall that was between us, i know i could be overreacting, but she seemed friendlier and more open to me after that, even despite everything she had said just minutes before.. what should i think about this? Is it a step in the right direction, even tho she brought up divorce again? Is it one of those believe none of what she says and half of what she does cases? I plan on staying in the house with her and sleeping together, i also want to attempt to engage sex or at least holding/cuddling again, i had never done that before in our relationship no matter how many times she complained about it so i feel it would be a 180...i know that’s a lot to read
Don't jump at every single little opportunity. Actions, not words, mean a difference. Nothing has changed. Continue to DB.
Actions! Meaning, she needs to consistantly show you she is interested in you. Period. Until she starts pursuing you and trying to get you back, nothing changes.
Do not move into the garage. If she wants to move into the garage thats fine.
What kind of actions do i need to look for in her? And i know what the book says on making her pursue me and be interested in me but i don’t fully understand it or how to do it. What kind of actions do i need to take? Do i need to do 180s compared to when things weren’t like this (like helping clean and stuff, i never helped before, or initiating sex and touching, another thing i never did)? I’m too much of an emotional person and care too much about her and want things to work that i’m afraid what will happen if i do some of the things the book says, i also wouldn’t know how to do it. I’m sorry if i keep repeating things but it’s hard for me to comprehend all this and gauge how things are going
So yesterday she asked what my plans are as far as living arrangements and said that was always part of the problem was that i never communicated or talked or anything. I told her i understand her feelings on it but i don’t want to leave. She said she is getting a divorce when she gets paid next and that i can stay longer but with different sleeping arrangements, and that i could turn the garage into something for myself ( and no I’m not gonna let her put me in the garage). I told her a bunch of stuff, basically told her how i feel about everything, i had been holding it in and avoiding that convo with her. She said she considers herself single and that i make her anxiety and depression worse and that i did it again so she said she was going out with her friends to get away from the house and me. The weird thing is that after all that we were both in the kitchen and she cooked, i told her thank you for cooking dinner and that i missed her cooking and that it tasted good, i had been the only one cooking, she said i was just trying to suck up. Then after that she asked if i could do her a favor and get her a energy drink from the store and if i would be the DD for her and her friends, what’s even weirder to me is that even tho i supposedly made her anxiety act up she was talking to me more after that, not about relationships or anything bad, but about funny stuff and some of the times she went out with her friends here recently and just telling me all about those times and other things. She also cleaned today for the first time in a while and told me things i need to do (with my clothes and other stuff in one of the rooms).To me it feels like that convo where i opened up and let loose tore down the wall that was between us, i know i could be overreacting, but she seemed friendlier and more open to me after that, even despite everything she had said just minutes before.. what should i think about this? Is it a step in the right direction, even tho she brought up divorce again? Is it one of those believe none of what she says and half of what she does cases? I plan on staying in the house with her and sleeping together, i also want to attempt to engage sex or at least holding/cuddling again, i had never done that before in our relationship no matter how many times she complained about it so i feel it would be a 180...i know that’s a lot to read
Jb, common trap LBHs fall into. You should go read ozman's thread. Sounds a lot like you. "She's being nice again! She likes me!" Then he asked his W to share the bathroom with him so they could change into their bathing suits together....and she closed the door behind her. Sent him spiraling.
Get me an energy drink. Be our DD. And then she is nice. Sounds like my 16 year-old daughter. When she wants nothing she tells me she hates me and to leave her alone. When she wants something she comes down and is all sweet and nice, and "Hey Dad, you know what happened?" It is called manipulating you into giving her whatever she wants. Energy drinks. Being DD. Moving out by month's end. Living in the garage.
Welcome to the friendzone.......what you do from this point forward will determine if you remain there or not. Remember, saving the MR is not up to you. Settling for being her BFF is up to you.
What kind of actions do i need to look for in her?
You don't! Watching her like this is pursuit and pressure. You have to let her go to get her back. That means NOT watching her for reactions. The worst way to DB is to think "I'll do X, and see if she reacts with & or Z!" STOP THAT.
And i know what the book says on making her pursue me and be interested in me but i don’t fully understand it or how to do it. What kind of actions do i need to take?
Go read the distance and pursuit thread. When you distance yourself, detach, remove all pressure and pursuit, she will wonder what is up and come sniffing around.
Do i need to do 180s compared to when things weren’t like this (like helping clean and stuff, i never helped before, or initiating sex and touching, another thing i never did)?
Have you heard the analogy of the car? Your MR is like a car. Do the routine maintenance like changing the oil, and rotating the tires, and you can avoid a breakdown. However if you don't do the routine maintenance, you will eventually suffer a breakdown. After a breakdown doing routine maintenance would be a waste of time. Changing oil and rotating the tires after the engine has thrown a rod won't fix the problem...and in fact would be a waste of time.
Cleaning. Initiating sex. Touching. That's all routine maintenance. Your MR's engine is blown now. And doing those thins will not help.
I’m too much of an emotional person and care too much about her and want things to work that i’m afraid what will happen if i do some of the things the book says, i also wouldn’t know how to do it. I’m sorry if i keep repeating things but it’s hard for me to comprehend all this and gauge how things are going
We create what we fear. Have you ever heard that? Someone that fears getting into an accident will usually drive in such a way that they are more likely to get into an accident. Do not fear DBing. You have two choices: DB, or pressure and pursue.
Pressure and pursuit will almost guarantee pushing her further away. DBing give you a better chance of getting what you want. It is NOT a guarantee, it just improves the chances. The other thing that DBing does is fix the very problem you stated: "I’m too much of an emotional person and care too much about her and want things to work that i’m afraid what will happen" Once you lovingly detach. Go out and GAL. And 180 on bad behaviors so that you improve as a person....then you will realize that you are going to be just fine no matter WHAT happens in with your W.
The first 180 I'd make is to drop the fear. And DB like a bad man! Doubledown on GAL. Work on learning what loving detachment is and work on it. And then get into IC to address your personality problems. Use this opportunity to fix yourself. In the process she may be attracted back to you.
One last thing. For women, attraction follows respect. You cannot reattract her back unless she respects you. "Get me an energy drink. Be my DD. Move into the garage." Does any of that engender respect? Start commanding respect. "No sorry, I am busy, I can't get you an energy drink or be your DD." "I will not move into the garage." She might get mad but she WILL respect you. You cannot nice her back into committing to the marriage.
Check out the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy." I am detecting some Nice Guy Syndrome issues in you Jb.
I’m too much of an emotional person and care too much about her and want things to work that i’m afraid what will happen if i do some of the things the book says, i also wouldn’t know how to do it. I’m sorry if i keep repeating things but it’s hard for me to comprehend all this and gauge how things are going
We create what we fear. Have you ever heard that? Someone that fears getting into an accident will usually drive in such a way that they are more likely to get into an accident. Do not fear DBing. You have two choices: DB, or pressure and pursue.
Jb - Steve is right. DB doesn't guarantee any outcome. It just changes the odds, and helps you break out of your unhealthy coping patterns.
As our MC told me privately: "F*** your fear. Fear doesn't exist." It is entirely a creation of your mind.
Fear also serves to mask controlling behavior. You are seeking a certain outcome (due to fear), so you design your words and actions to try to achieve that outcome. This is a means of control and it is not authentic. It is classic Nice Guy. Nice Guy wants to try out different things and then gauge how his W responds. No no no no no. Reformed Nice Guy does what is authentic and respectful and true to his values, and in doing so becomes happier and more attractive. RNG is authentic. If his W wants to leave, RNG lets her go.
Who is Jb2019? What do you fear? If what you fear comes true, will you survive? I guarantee that you will. You may even look at the experience as a gift.
The problem is not that you care too much about her. The problem is you don't care enough about yourself.
By the way, everything I say is just me speaking how I wish I acted - I make mistakes all the time =) But I've seen enough in my situation to realize this is going to define the path I take for the rest of my life. I read NMMNG a year ago and did not take the lessons to heart. Now I am back, tail between my legs, reading and re-reading it like a sacred text.
I am convinced with practice and hard work, these things become second-nature. You don't need to constantly think of "validation, boundaries, toxic shame, covert contracts, PMA, GAL, 180s, LRT, etc." - you are just you, confident, self-differentiated, fully in command of your words and actions and values. Then... you can face whatever life throws your way. It may be your W's undying love, it may be a brutal D. Nobody knows. Enjoy the adventure.
Thank you all for the advice, something else i probably should have mentioned is that my wife has never had regular periods, she will often go months or years at a time without one, so her hormones are all wacked out, she also got an iud put in about a month ago and thats when she really became dead set on divorce. She was bleeding off and on and was bloated because of the iud (sorry if this is tmi, just want to bring it up) Basically it’s like she’s having her period all the time, that’s what her words are like. One of my friends goes through the same thing with his gf, she says she’s single and is done and all this other stuff (like my wife), only he doesn’t freak out, she has the same hormone problems as my wife, but to him she doesn’t mean it and they are still together and she always comes back and stays with him whenever he even acts like he’s gonna leave or says you are not single
And just to clarify, i need to stop washing dishes, taking out trash, mowing yard and everything? Or certain things. And do i need to just go out without telling her?
Jb - we had 3 kids back-to-back-to-back. Pregnancy, then a year of breastfeeding, then pregnancy again, etc. Wife got an IUD afterwards, had it removed due to bleeding and pain issues, has cycled through various birth control meds ever since. I had a vasectomy but she continues with the BC because of issues regulating her cycle. A couple months ago she had her period every day for 6 weeks. I think the stress of the sitch was contributing.
Anyways... all I can say is, avoid the temptation to "root cause" your sitch. People are complicated creatures. Maybe hormones are a contributing factor. Not sure it really changes what you should be doing. If I could give my wife a magic (BC) pill and fix everything I would.
So do i need to stop doing anything for her or around the house? And do i need to try to avoid her? Also what might happen if i say ok to a divorce and even get the papers and stuff?
Jb - we had 3 kids back-to-back-to-back. Pregnancy, then a year of breastfeeding, then pregnancy again, etc. Wife got an IUD afterwards, had it removed due to bleeding and pain issues, has cycled through various birth control meds ever since. I had a vasectomy but she continues with the BC because of issues regulating her cycle. A couple months ago she had her period every day for 6 weeks. I think the stress of the sitch was contributing.
Anyways... all I can say is, avoid the temptation to "root cause" your sitch. People are complicated creatures. Maybe hormones are a contributing factor. Not sure it really changes what you should be doing. If I could give my wife a magic (BC) pill and fix everything I would.
What did you do during that time?
I might be misinterpreting your question. Anytime she brought up issues with her birth control or hormones I validated and expressed my concern about her health. I did not try to provide advice in any direction.
During limbo I lost 15 pounds from the stress. I am already a skinny dude. My W expressed concern and insisted I see a doctor. She asked all about the appointment. I told the doctor straight up there is no medical issue, I am stressed out because my W wants to leave me. He offered to prescribe some anti anxiety medication. I declined. I knew my W may hold it against me, plus I wanted to handle things on my own. She kept asking about the appointment. I told her I was told to lessen my workload at work and get better sleep.
Two different medical situations: my W got curious and I took her concern very negatively as if it was self serving. I still do.
Let your W drive her medical decisions and stick to validating.
Also her cycle stabilized and it changed nothing in my situation
Don't do anything around the house for her. If you want something done, or need it. Then do it.
In my sitch, my wife was terrible about dishes in the sink. I hate dirty dishes in the sink. Before BD I would empty the dishwasher, empty the sink, and complain and moan about it the whole time. Never called her names but would certainly express my displeasure. After BD I still did it because it was important to me! But I did it cheerily. Happily. Upbeat. Singing or whistling to myself.
And why does she still have engagement and wedding pictures hanging up? They aren’t any of just her it has mostly me and her or close ups of the ring
They are still up in my house too Jb. Means nothing.
And why does she still have engagement and wedding pictures hanging up? They aren’t any of just her it has mostly me and her or close ups of the ring
You are trying to understand the mind of a WAW/WW?? Jb, that is like chasing gold at the end of rainbows.
So she’s been drinking a lot more, smoking weed more, hanging out with friends more and staying out late (which i don’t care if she does any of that in moderation) but it’s gotten so bad that it’s become destructive, she’s hanging out and drinking until like 12-1 when she has to be at work at 5, she has to be up no later than 4 to get ready. But yet when she’s off the next day she hasn’t stayed out as late, It’s almost like she’s trying to set herself up to get fired at work. It’s also like she she’s trying to escape her own unhappiness, depression, and anxiety instead of facing it. That’s why i’m against her long term use of anxiety meds, it only helps to run away instead of facing the problem so it builds up until you can’t escape anymore, then you have to face what is essentially a monster that you created just because you put it off..i know i can’t confront her on any of this though, i just have to do my own thing, but i’m still worried. Also i’m not sure if i’m right about any of this
So she’s been drinking a lot more, smoking weed more, hanging out with friends more and staying out late (which i don’t care if she does any of that in moderation) but it’s gotten so bad that it’s become destructive, she’s hanging out and drinking until like 12-1 when she has to be at work at 5, she has to be up no later than 4 to get ready. But yet when she’s off the next day she hasn’t stayed out as late, It’s almost like she’s trying to set herself up to get fired at work. It’s also like she she’s trying to escape her own unhappiness, depression, and anxiety instead of facing it. That’s why i’m against her long term use of anxiety meds, it only helps to run away instead of facing the problem so it builds up until you can’t escape anymore, then you have to face what is essentially a monster that you created just because you put it off..i know i can’t confront her on any of this though, i just have to do my own thing, but i’m still worried. Also i’m not sure if i’m right about any of this
Jb2019 - I feel like you are me writing about 6 weeks ago.
Drinking, smoking weed, staying out late, depressing, anxiety meds - way too much focus on her.
I get it... you are trying to understand. Trust me, you'll cycle through these thoughts for awhile, and then eventually climb out of it. Let her do what she is going to do. All of this is a subtle form of control - you would prefer she make different choices. Let her face the consequences of her choices, you pointing them out will only worsen things for you.
What have you been doing lately? GAL plans?
So she’s been drinking a lot more, smoking weed more, hanging out with friends more and staying out late (which i don’t care if she does any of that in moderation) but it’s gotten so bad that it’s become destructive, she’s hanging out and drinking until like 12-1 when she has to be at work at 5, she has to be up no later than 4 to get ready. But yet when she’s off the next day she hasn’t stayed out as late, It’s almost like she’s trying to set herself up to get fired at work. It’s also like she she’s trying to escape her own unhappiness, depression, and anxiety instead of facing it. That’s why i’m against her long term use of anxiety meds, it only helps to run away instead of facing the problem so it builds up until you can’t escape anymore, then you have to face what is essentially a monster that you created just because you put it off..i know i can’t confront her on any of this though, i just have to do my own thing, but i’m still worried. Also i’m not sure if i’m right about any of this
You seem to think that this can be controlled. That will be your undoing. You need to step aside and get out of the way. She'll either come around or she won't. There is nothing you can do to bring about or prevent either one.
As unchien just asked. How are you focusing on you?
Last night was a tough one, she went to a lingerie party her and her friends got invited to at a gay guy’s birthday. She didn’t come home last night and i really didn’t like what she was wearing.. but apparently i’m not the only one concerned with my wifes behavior and that she’s acting differently, her mother and grandmother are both concerned and noticed all of this. Her mom was talking to me about it and was brought to tears and told me i need to tell her my feelings and that i’m worried because she doesn’t think my wife will listen to her anymore. She hopes we can work things out and was giving me advice on what to say. She said she always worried about her kids (of course she would) but she never had to worry about my wife until now. She lost her husband in december so she probably feels like she’s losing one of her daughters. She also said that my wife has always been a very loving person (always wanting to love on people, so for anyone familiar with the 5 love languages hers would have been physical touch) but she’s noticed that for a while now she hasn’t been loving at all, she doesn’t live with her or see her everyday and she notices all this. My wife has told her that i don’t communicate and talk to her the way i should. One of my mother in laws suggestions was to talk to her and if that doesn’t work stop doing stuff for her so she’ll see what it’s like without me there, she has given up trying to talk to her own daughter because it wasn’t working, but i feel if we both talk to her in a certain way maybe she’ll see there’s legitimate problems..my wife has also taken a leave at work for a week, she said the house needs to be cleaned inside and out and that we need to figure things out about our situation. I’m not leaving that house or the bedroom and i’m not giving up on us. I won’t let her put me in the garage. She hasn’t brought up divorce for about a week now, and she was wondering what me and the therapist were talking about, if we were talking bad about her, and if we had to pay for it. I’m so drained though, do i need to tell her how i feel or will it be a mute point and make things worse? She said last week that communication was our main problem and that its too late now but after i communicated how i felt she acted more open and wasn’t as cold towards me
Her mom also said she doesn’t even know what’s going on with her anymore and that she needs to be clear about us, saying if she’s done she needs to say so and follow through but that she can’t be expecting to stay friends with me or me doing stuff for her. She knows she’s been drinking, smoking, drinking, and hanging out late a lot. It’s basically like she’s trying to throw her life and future away
I would suggest to stop trying to talk to her about your R. Back off. You arent going to make her stop. Also, tell your MIL to back off as well. Detach detach detach. Validate and thats it. Stop giving suggestions or feedback on behavior. It does not help.
Focus on yourself.
So my wife just texted me “you’re paying half the bills this month” idk if she was asking or saying, then she said we have a coupon we need to use at this store, then said “im making the makeup room your room until you figure out your living arrangements”..im not paying anything or sleeping anywhere but in the bed with her if she expects me to leave. Idk how to confront her on this though, the only reason she’ll need me to pay half is because of the leave she took, she hasn’t even cleaned any, just been out hanging or partying. I really want things to work. Does the book and sandi’s rules apply here? Do i need to put my foot down or will it make things worse. She said i need to communicate how i feel so do i need to do that?
Actions buddy just actions. You’re not leaving the bedroom and you’re not leaving the house. No need to communicate anything.
Also, based on that text she has zero respect for you. No respect no reconciliation.
Jb, your W has no respect for you. And respect is closely linked to attraction. So you have to do things that command respect. Like NOT giving up the MBR. No matter what. No matter how mad it makes her. Yes the book AND sandi's rules apply here. You have a Wayward Wife, and sandi's rules are specifically for a WW.
You need to stand your ground. You need to command respect. Even if he is gets angry and mad and even hates you for it!
On your last question, the answer is NO. You listen to her. And validate her. PERIOD.
Thank you for the quick replies, i was really steamed and sad when she said that. She asked me to help her grandmother move yesterday, which i did, then asked about me paying half the bills, which i said yes, then this..i want her to respect me again so she can be attracted to me like she was, but idk how to do that
Do the opposite of what you think is right.
Can you move granny? Sorry I have plans.
Will you pay half of the bills? No I am not paying for your apartment.
You’re sleeping in the powder room. No I’m staying in the master bedroom.
She said i have no right telling her no
Dude she’s not your mommy. Tell her not in these words but I don’t give a flying fuch where you sleep, but I’m sleeping in my fuching bed.
She said she’d sleep on the couch if i don’t sleep elsewhere, and that she should’ve had her guy friends over. But she said she is done and when the papers come in i better sign and that i need to work on myself because it is over between us. Saying she felt like this since her dad died and it hasn’t gotten better and she considers herself single. Said she id changing her fb relationship status and will want me out of the house and that she was being nice letting me live here..i’m so torn up about this, she said i haven’t been communicating again..i want to communicate with her but idk how really..i think it might be too late but i really hope it isn’t
She also said if I work by myself at sea may let me come see her and the dogs
J,
She’s just giving you the typical WW bs. Let her sleep on the couch. Don’t leave the house. Give her time and space and listen and validate.
Print out Sandis rules and start to implement them.
Oh wow that is so gracious of you your royal highness. Give me a fuching break.
You should work on yourself but for you. Not her trying to dangle some scraps like you’re her little lap dog.
So with all this is it done for? Is there still hope if i follow the book and the rules?
J,
Sure there is hope. It’s not going to happen over night and you’re gonna have to become a man only a fool would leave.
Do i try to have sex or touch or anything if i want to? Or will it make things worse
Dude - let her come to you. You'll appear needy and that's not attractive at all.
I still can’t believe she said i had no right to tell her no to all that, what am i supposed to say to it, she also asked if i’d sign the papers when they come in and if i don’t i’ll have to pay the court costs since she’s paying 100 for it through the mail..i feel like she was saying things to hurt me more like having guy friends over and saying she’s single and stuff. She got really upset when i told her no and she started to tear up a little, she said we have no relationship anymore
She also said i was acting like a d*ck and a douchebag and a b*tch because i told her no and stuff
Who cares what she says? Actions man. She cant make you do anything. You told her no, thats the end of that conversation.
You meed to go dark man. Protect yourself. My EXWW was just like yours. All threats and words. I literally ignored her up until tue very end because all she spewed was hate and disgust. Blamed me for her cheating. I dropped her like a bad habit.
Nobody deserves to be emotionally abused.
She said it is my fault that the utility bill is so high, and that her depression and anxiety and spening time out is brcause of me too
Who cares what she says? Actions man. She cant make you do anything. You told her no, thats the end of that conversation.
You meed to go dark man. Protect yourself. My EXWW was just like yours. All threats and words. I literally ignored her up until tue very end because all she spewed was hate and disgust. Blamed me for her cheating. I dropped her like a bad habit.
Nobody deserves to be emotionally abused.
So what do i do if i want to keep her, i know i may sound crazy with what all she said but i admit i played my part in pushing things here. She apparently thinks i can’t control her but she can control me
You can't control her. If you want to keep her, pull back and focus on you. I know it's hard - I'm still learning to do that in my situation. But letting go and focusing on being a better you is the best thing you can do right now if you want to get her back. Even then, it may not change her mind. But you'll be better.
I read today that in these situations you just have to consider the relationship over and move on like you would otherwise. It doesn't mean you can't listen and validate her feelings when she chooses to talk. But you have to move forward without her and focus on you.
Jb. You need to understand that you dont get to decide to keep her or not. She already decided your R is over. So accept that. Your R is over. Focus on yourself. Stop trying to manipulate the situation to get a response from her. Stop trying to control the outcome. You cannot control the outcome.
All you can do is focus on bettering yourself. Thats it. You need to 100% focus solely on making yourself a better person physically and mentally. You control you and she controls herself. There is literally nothing you can do to change her mind.
You can better yourself and have hope that she sees this and decides to come back to you. But that cant be your drive. Your drive is to do everything you can to make yourself a better man and all of the decisions you make moving forward should only have that goal in mind. Make decisions that make you happy.
Stop worrying about what she thinks and what she does.
I went to in the bed and she took her pillows and a cover and is laying on the couch, didn’t even say anything about her wanting the bed and the room. She did change her facebook status to single, which hurts. I do understand i can’t control her, but i do want there to be a good chance things will work if i change what i control
Jb2019, I think you did the right thing. She may be annoyed, but I can't imagine the narrative, "I kicked him out of the bedroom. He sleeps in the makeup room now." would help you win her respect back.
I was expecting her to come to bed with me or say something about me sleeping elsewhere whenever she decided to lay down, but she went with just laying on the couch. Idk how things will go from here.. She said its my fault she was late for work because she’s depressed
If the papers come in do i sign them? And how long can i expect her to sleep elsewhere? And will she just continue sleeping with me when she sees that i’m not moving
If the papers come in do i sign them?
I've been divorced before. I did the filing (petitioner). If I were on the receiving end (respondent) I would not sign anything before reading it completely and having an attorney review it.
What if she insists, she said if i don’t sign that’ll make things even worse between us and that she would make me pay for court costs and possibly get a restraining order and force me out and that i couldn’t see the dogs or her anymore then even as a friend
What if she insists, she said if i don’t sign that’ll make things even worse between us..
If the papers are fair, she shouldn't bat an eyelash if you want to take a week and have them reviewed. Note, your case may be much simpler than mine if you don't have kids or sizeable assets.
and that she would make me pay for court costs
What court costs?! She's going to.. spend a couple thousand dollars and months working her way through the legal system because you want a week to review the papers?! Such high pressure tactics imply trickiness. In that case, I'd ABSOLUTELY insist on a week to have an attorney review the papers.
that i couldn’t see the dogs or her anymore then even as a friend
Is she acting as a friend when she asks you to sign papers without giving you adequate time to review them? Is she legally assured the dogs.. in other words.. did she own them pre-marriage?
and possibly get a restraining order and force me out and
A real threat. Assuming no prior incidents, I bet this would also take more than a week.
It’s like at this point she's just trying to say and do whatever she can to hurt me, and she knows what will work on that.. idk if i should believe what she’s saying
It’s like at this point she's just trying to say and do whatever she can to hurt me, and she knows what will work on that.. idk if i should believe what she’s saying
JB - "Believe none of what she says and only half of what she does."
This is DB scripture. Memorize it. When you W talks and threatens you, listen, validate, and your goal should be to have zero... ZERO... emotional turmoil. Set a boundary that you will not tolerate verbal abuse. It's an impossible goal to achieve when things are intense like this, but that should be your goal.
Her: "Blah blah blah"
You: "I'm sorry you feel that way, I imagine it is quite frustrating." [listen, validate]
Her: "Blah blah blah restraining order blah blah blah court costs blah blah blah."
You: "I cannot continue this conversation if you are going to threaten me." [boundaries]
What if she insists, she said if i don’t sign that’ll make things even worse between us and that she would make me pay for court costs and possibly get a restraining order and force me out and that i couldn’t see the dogs or her anymore then even as a friend
It may help calm you to go speak to a L. Many offer free consults for the first 45-60 minutes. Get informed. You aren't obligated to tell your W.
Yeah, she may file a frivolous RO or make this overly litigious. That [censored], it happens to some of us. Just make sure to think clearly about what you want -- caving to her demands is not going to earn back your respect, and you will regret it regardless of how your MR ends up.
So i need help understanding sandi’s rules and some of the stuff from the book. How far do i take these things? Do i do anything at all for her (like clean or go to the store for her)? How do i gain her respect without her blowing up on me and saying horrible things to me? Do i need to communicate with her currently, and how do i properly do it for the future? How do the techniques in the book break down? And how far do i take those? Do i do what she wants me to do? How do i get a life and go dark and stuff while still showing her that i love her and want to be with her? Things like this, i know it’s a lot of questions but i need help clearing some of this up
What if she insists, she said if i don’t sign that’ll make things even worse between us and that she would make me pay for court costs and possibly get a restraining order and force me out and that i couldn’t see the dogs or her anymore then even as a friend
Meh. Empty threats to try to get what she wants. Go get a L.
It’s like at this point she's just trying to say and do whatever she can to hurt me, and she knows what will work on that.. idk if i should believe what she’s saying
That is easy. Do not believe a single syllable that comes out of her pie hole.
What if she insists, she said if i don’t sign that’ll make things even worse between us and that she would make me pay for court costs and possibly get a restraining order and force me out and that i couldn’t see the dogs or her anymore then even as a friend
Meh. Empty threats to try to get what she wants. Go get a L.
So she’s still trying to hurt me but doesn’t really mean it?
She keeps saying i need to tell my parents too
She also said i was acting like a d*ck and a douchebag and a b*tch because i told her no and stuff
Wow JB I can't believe the disrepect you are allowing yourself to be subjected to over and over. My XW would NEVER, EVER say things like that to me, not when we were married, not after bomb drop, and not now years after our divorce. NEVER. I don't care how bad you think you "need" her, no human being should EVER allow someone else to treat them like this. You can stop this and stop it NOW. If she EVER says something like that to you then you look her square in the eye and you tell her you will not tolerate being spoken to in such a manner and until she takes on a more respectful tone you will NOT have this or any other conversation with her. Then LEAVE. Leave the room or leave the house.
If the others haven't already made this abundantly clear to you- you have ZERO chance of reconciling with her as long as you continue to let her disrespect you like this. She has no attraction to you right now. First you have to gain her respect, then she might start seeing you differently.
She said it is my fault that the utility bill is so high, and that her depression and anxiety and spening time out is brcause of me too
Don't respond to crap like this. Don't reply, don't engage.
So what do i do if i want to keep her
Let her go. Quit letting her abuse and belittle you. Be a man again. Find yourself. Rebuild your confidence. Make yourself smarter, better looking, more fit, better dressed, better groomed. Don't look back. THEN she might be interested in you again.
I went to in the bed and she took her pillows and a cover and is laying on the couch, didn’t even say anything about her wanting the bed and the room.
GOOD. You stay in the bed. You let her sleep wherever she wants. Couch, floor, in the bed next to you, in the back yard, wherever. It should all be the same to you.
She did change her facebook status to single, which hurts.
Quit looking at her FB. Block her if you can't stop yourself from looking.
I was expecting her to come to bed with me or say something about me sleeping elsewhere whenever she decided to lay down, but she went with just laying on the couch. Idk how things will go from here..
Quit expecting anything of her. She's checked out. Drop all expectations. Focus on YOU.
She said its my fault she was late for work because she’s depressed
More disrespect. Don't respond, just ignore this kind of stuff.
If the papers come in do i sign them? And how long can i expect her to sleep elsewhere? And will she just continue sleeping with me when she sees that i’m not moving
Do you agree with the terms? If you do then sign, if you don't then don't sign. Regarding where she sleeps, no she probably won't return to the bed. Your focus is in the wrong place. Focus on YOU and making yourself "the spouse only a fool would leave". You are not that right now, but you can be. It'll take many months of hard work. Time to get started.
EDIT- you're past 10 pages, time for a new thread. Title it the same or something different with "part 2" on it. Post a link to this thread in your first post in the new one, and post a link to the new thread in your last post in this one.
What if she insists, she said if i don’t sign that’ll make things even worse between us and that she would make me pay for court costs and possibly get a restraining order and force me out and that i couldn’t see the dogs or her anymore then even as a friend
Meh. Empty threats to try to get what she wants. Go get a L.
So she’s still trying to hurt me but doesn’t really mean it?
No she is trying to manipulate you into getting what she wants. She has no respect for you and frankly doesn't care if you are hurt or not.
So do i need to give up trying to get her back
So do i need to give up trying to get her back
Not sure what this question means in relation to what we've been telling you? Attraction for women is closely linked to respect. You cannot be attractive to her if she doesn't respect you.
But in general, the answer to your question is yes. You have to let her go to get her back. Counter-intuitive but it is the only choice you really have.
And to get her respect back i need to act like i don’t need her, GAL, stop doing anything for her?
Its not about acting like you don't need her. Its about moving your attention from trying to change her, fix the MR, to focusing on yourself.
All you need to do is take a step back, evaluate yourself, and work on yourself. Thats it. What behaviors have you recognized that contributed to your 50% of the relationship failure? Work on those. What can you do to improve yourself?
Read self-help books, dress differently, workout etc.
What can you do to make yourself happy and keep your focus off of your MR and your WW? You can GAL. Do things that make you happy. Do things that fulfill your day.
You are not trying to punish her. You are showing her that you respect yourself and that you understand that you will be a good man with her or without her.
It is very counter-intuitive. You want to approach her and fix it and talk and go into super husband mode. You need to fight those urges and ONLY focus on yourself.
Communication was a big part of my failures, as well as taking her for granted and never helping around the house..do i need to still try to fix these behaviors with her or will they come across as just trying to fix the marriage? I do want to communicate better with her and do better
Jb - You *can* work on communication.
Set a boundary that you won't tolerate verbal abuse. That will improve your communication. Done.
Listen, you are spinning. Every vet here is telling you the same thing... first, earn back your respect. You are way too focused on winning your W back when she is giving all signs that she wants to walk all over you. Helping more around the house right now is not going to help. Not taking your W granted right now is not going to help. It is good to think about these things, but they are also confusing your thoughts and you have a lot swirling around in your brain right now.
Also I'll stand by what I said before... Do not sign any papers if she throws then at you and insists. I don't care if she says the SWAT team is outside the door ready to take you away. Take your time. Read them... you will have time to respond. "OK, I need some time to review these" "When will you sign them?" "I don't know, I need some time" "blah blah blah" "I'm sorry you feel that way, I need some time" Stand up for yourself. Good for you, and good for your relationship because you are commanding some respect. See how it works?
I still don’t fully understand how to earn her respect back besides not letting her put me out of the bed or house
Communication was a big part of my failures, as well as taking her for granted and never helping around the house..do i need to still try to fix these behaviors with her or will they come across as just trying to fix the marriage? I do want to communicate better with her and do better
Communication is maintenance you do on a fairly healthy MR. Pre-BD improving communication would have been a perfect thing to do.
It is like a car. If you don't change the oil, eventually you will have engine failure. After engine failure changing the oil won't matter.
So put a pin in improving communication. Concentrate on GAL, detaching, and 180s. If and when she wants to come back to the MR, then you can work on improving communication.
I still don’t fully understand how to earn her respect back besides not letting her put me out of the bed or house
When she starts berating you or calling you names, simply and calmly state "I will not tolerate disrespect." And walk away.
Start doing things that COMMAND respect. Do not verbally demand it. That is what GAL and detachment do. As well as certain 180s. Think of it as becoming an alpha male. You need to be a little selfish, focus on you. Forget about her.
YOU CANNOT NICE YOUR W BACK TO MR.