I Was Jerk (Part 2) - DivorceBusting.com

Link to Part 1:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2842291&#Post2842291

Quick update on my sitch over the past 2 weeks:

GAL continuing in full force - gym, working OT, dinner and drinks with friends. Multiple interesting comments from friends on my sitch and on my STBXW that I will elaborate on when I have more time. However the short of it is that more friends and family have told me that they witnessed W's harshness, nitpicking, and controlling behavior from time to time. There is a two-pronged effect of hearing this stuff - first, incredible relief that I am not crazy and that her personality issues are observable to others, but second - I am having a harder and harder time acting friendly toward W because I just don't think I even like her as a person.

Funny to hear you say that Gekko, several members of my WW's family had told me the same things about her.

Alot of what I post on here to others has to do with "turning points" so to speak on an LBS's journey. Where you are I think is one of those points. When you are validated by others not in your sitch that you aren't crazy in regards to your WW's ways/actions, that's very empowering...the validation sets off the whole "hey wait a minute" mindset and from that point an LBS can really start to move forward so to speak.

The second part...yeah once you are aware they are feeding you a bunch of crap as others see it too...I can understand the desire to want to be less friendly towards her, but I would caution you to be mindful of the larger picture when you feel like changing your disposition with her. Ideally friendly would be great, but at worst do your best to keep it courteous and business like or as we also say around here treat her like the cashier at the store or your next door neighbor. I haven't read back to your prior thread but I assume she is the mother of your children so beyond the reasons I've just given, if nothing else try to be that way for the benefit of your children. They will need and want both of you to be as cordial as possible given how much this will impact their lives going forward.

Lastly, just because your W may have her issues, don't let that preclude you from continuing to look within yourself at how you contributed to getting your R where it is. None of us are perfect so surely there are things that you can work on within yourself to be a better man, father and spouse.

-B

Hi Gekko,

You have a different set of skills to learn than most here. You have had some time to reflect on what you need to change. Do you get to practice these with STBXW? Does she notice a change? Do others?

Thanks ballast and R2C as always.

One of my biggest traits has always been that I am reactive - if I am treated well I will give it back even more so, and if I am treated poorly I will counterpunch. Respect has always been a big deal to me and I have always had strong boundaries in this department - there is going to be a confrontation if you disrespect me. I also react to any attempt to micro-manage me or to anyone who tries to order me around.

I have made tremendous progress in not reacting strongly in most instances, staying calm and cool, but still enforcing my boundaries. I think I am in a pretty good spot with my immediate responses to W's constant shyt tests and snide comments. I have always been good in this department with amused mastery, agree and amplify, and pressure flips if you know the terms. I didn't know the terms for what I have always done until recently. But my weakness was to sometimes get drawn into W's emotions and get into an argument, and I have cut this out totally. I have added "ignore" to my toolbox and use that now as well. So I am feeling pretty good about where I am at with this part of it.

Regarding my general demeanor, I have been going for the "clerk at the store" interaction with W. I am pretty cordial, but also pretty short and of few words. I wouldn't say "friendly" - more businesslike. No probing questions about her day or what she is up to. She is initiating most conversations. I am definitely on the cool side but not an ahole. Not a lot of smiles, just very matter of fact. No pursuit whatsoever.

W has definitely noticed my refusal to engage in an argument and my ignoring and walking away, and that I am cool 100% of the time instead of 75%. But she has also noticed that my demeanor remains distant and cool as well and that our interactions are not deep or have any real warmth to them. So my goal remains to inject some friendliness and warmth into the interactions. My hand has been on that dial but I am cautious about turning it up and quite honestly I am not a big fan of her these days. It's hard to want to be friendly with someone who hits you with criticism, snide comments and who you know just wants OUT.

I guess i'm having to face the feeling that I want space away from her and the toxicity. While she can be totally nice and fine much of the time, it's always just a matter of time until the next underhanded comment is made or her negativity bubbles up. Almost daily. The sound of her voice yelling at the kids to eat their breakfast or to do this or that has become almost unbearable. Constant complaints about things we all deal with in daily existence have worn me out too. I can't lie, I am looking forward to the silver linings of a S/D and getting some peace and tranquility. So maybe I am close to not DBing any more?

Originally Posted by Gekko

The sound of her voice yelling at the kids to eat their breakfast or to do this or that has become almost unbearable.

I believe there is a balance in expressing emotions. Your W does not know this. She does not have the tools. This is where you may be able to help guide her. Google parenting with love and logic.

H:"W, you sound frustrated."
W:"Bla bla bla "
H:"W, Yes I understand that"
W:"Bla bla bla"

H:"W, well maybe there is something we can do different. I will do some research"

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Constant complaints about things we all deal with in daily existence have worn me out too.

She needs to vent. Woman are wired different. My woman wants me to understand what she FELT through out the day. No mr fix it.

Example: She was angry with her boss. Of course she can not express that anger at work. I get to experience her anger at her boss in the evening. I am strong enough to take it. I make it safe for your to express herself.

Quote

Constant complaints about things we all deal with in daily existence have worn me out too.

She needs to vent. Woman are wired different. My woman wants me to understand what she FELT through out the day. No mr fix it.

Example: She was angry with her boss. Of course she can not express that anger at work. I get to experience her anger at her boss in the evening. I am strong enough to take it. I make it safe for your to express herself.
[/quote]

I was always pretty good about just listening and validating (for years), but then when W's criticism of me ramped up I started to lose interest in suffering through her venting. Her venting took the form of repeating the same story 3+ times. She just couldn't let it go. After 45 minutes of negativity every night about this or that I would finally say "look was there anything positive that happened today?" to which she would get upset at me. I get it, I get that was not the right play on my part, and I no longer play that card. I just validate and then either change the subject subtly or leave the room for something to avoid sitting through the 2nd and 3rd times she will tell the story. I have found validation and then having an exit strategy is the way for me to balance her need to vent and my need to avoid endless rants and maintain some sanity.

Originally Posted by Gekko

I was always pretty good about just listening and validating (for years), but then when W's criticism of me ramped up I started to lose interest in suffering through her venting. Her venting took the form of repeating the same story 3+ times. She just couldn't let it go. After 45 minutes of negativity every night about this or that I would finally say "look was there anything positive that happened today?" to which she would get upset at me. I get it, I get that was not the right play on my part, and I no longer play that card. I just validate and then either change the subject subtly or leave the room for something to avoid sitting through the 2nd and 3rd times she will tell the story. I have found validation and then having an exit strategy is the way for me to balance her need to vent and my need to avoid endless rants and maintain some sanity.

I think I do something similar.

H"W, I plan on going out to the garage in about 30 minutes. Want to talk about your day before I go out?"

Yeah, I want to give just enough ear and validation for her to get through the story once and then i'm done. The listen, validate and re-direct route is almost like dealing with a child, LOL.

Gekko D Timeline Update:

W has met with a mediator and is ready to sign the fee agreement, have the mediator file for D and move forward. I am checking out the mediator to see if he is legit. If so I will agree and off we go.

We are talking about a custody schedule and W wants one where we each get 2 days a week then alternate weekends, so I guess that is 2-2-3.

W: "I think 2-2-3 for custody, so we alternate weekends."

Me: "I don't like that. It means I will not have the kids for 5 straight days, and that will happen twice a month. Too long of a separation."

W (getting agitated): "Well that's what everyone does, they alternate weekends."

Me: "Who's everyone?"

W: "Everyone who I have talked to."

Me: "Who?"

W: "Okay, well what do YOU suggest?"

Me: "I like 3-4-4-3. We each get the kids the same 3 days every week, and alternate 1 day. And we arrange it so we split the weekends in half - one of gets Friday night and Saturday day, and the other Saturday night and Sunday day."

W: (very agitated): "I have never heard of this splitting weekends in half. I want the kids for an entire weekend and then to have an entire weekend free. Everyone alternates weekends."

Me: "Who's everyone?"

W: "You're going to make this difficult, aren't you?"

Me: "Because I want to see my kids a part of every weekend? It's the only large chunk of quality time available, the weekdays are too hectic. I don't want to go 2 weeks between quality time with them. If you want them for a full weekend every now and then that's fine, and I'm sure vice-versa. We can work that out."

W: "I've never heard of this weekend splitting"

Me: "You're hearing about it now."

W: "Okay well put something in writing."

Me: "Sure."

And we're off!

Originally Posted by Gekko

Me: "I like 3-4-4-3. We each get the kids the same 3 days every week, and alternate 1 day. And we arrange it so we split the weekends in half - one of gets Friday night and Saturday day, and the other Saturday night and Sunday day."

In my state parenting days are overnight.

So if I understand correctly you are proposing something like this:

Mother- Sat Sun Mon
Alternate Tuesdays
Father - Wed Thurs Friday

Exchange time: 5P

My arrangement:

Exchanges every Friday after school. 5p on non school days.
Midweek dinner visits(was Tuesdays). Kids go to off week parents house at normal exchange time. Off week parent drops kids off at other parents house at 8p.

This worked very good for work. I stayed late two nights on my parenting week (Tuesday and Friday) and late three nights on my off week. Didn't go too long between seeing kids. My kids were in soccer and baseball etc so I saw them more frequently anyway.

The best thing I did was implement the "Drop off parent". If you have a "pickup parent" then you end up waiting around your X's house or vice versa.

I guess my feeling is get things as simple and as concrete as possible. I have stupid exceptions written in. Like 9AM exchange on Easter. Better is keeping every formal excpetion at the normal excahge time.

These are the big exceptions, most people alternate years:

Thanksgiving exception (Mother enjoys Thursday on odd years, father gets Friday)
Christmas break exception (We split the time in half. Mother enjoys the first halve on odd years father on even)

spring break

Birthdays??

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Originally Posted by Gekko

Me: "I like 3-4-4-3. We each get the kids the same 3 days every week, and alternate 1 day. And we arrange it so we split the weekends in half - one of gets Friday night and Saturday day, and the other Saturday night and Sunday day."

In my state parenting days are overnight.

So if I understand correctly you are proposing something like this:

Mother- Sat Sun Mon
Alternate Tuesdays
Father - Wed Thurs Friday

Exchange time: 5P

You got it R2C. Or possibly reversing the Mother-Father days.

You may also want to conciser getting "Right of first refusal" written in. That way, the other parent should be offered the oppertunity to watch the kids instead of a baby sitter. (or over involved grandparents).

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

You may also want to conciser getting "Right of first refusal" written in. That way, the other parent should be offered the oppertunity to watch the kids instead of a baby sitter. (or over involved grandparents).

Yes like the idea of a Right of First Refusal. I am also thinking about splitting holiday days in half as we will be living within 10 minutes of each other. No need to miss out on a holiday when we are that close, and in our history we have never done anywhere near a full day and evening (15 hrs!) anywhere for a holiday, so shouldn't be a problem. Lots of details to still figure out. My L says get an agreement that is as detailed as possible so there will not be too many constant decisions to make on the fly. We can always agree to one-off deviations or outright changes down the road if something is not working.

The goal in your documentation is to reduce confusion and less negotiations.

Fathers day is spent with the father.

Mothers day is spent with the mother.

That appears straight forward. This is where I am stressing the exchange times. When does a day start? When does it end? Is it different for different exceptions. Is a day always 6pm to 6pm.

If you split a day in halve, what time is that? 8 hours sleeping leaves 16 hours awake. 8 hours with mom, 8 with dad.

If birthday lands on school day, 8 hours sleep 8 hours school leaves 8 hours. Maybe 4 hours with each parent.

I think a weekend or holiday "day" is probably 8 am - 8 pm, so splitting the day would be an exchange at 2 pm.

School day birthdays - school lets out at 2 pm, so the "shifts" would be 2-5 and 5-8.

Holiday shifts will probably be ranked in order of importance so each parent gets an equal "quality" of shifts every year - ie: for many the most important portions of the holiday would be Christmas morning, NYE, Easter morning, etc etc.. Nobody gets all the best shifts, should be balanced.

During periods of no travel during school breaks, the regular schedule should apply for stability and continuity's sake. Any travel should be planned for days when that parent already has custody under the regular schedule to avoid too much modification to the schedule before/after the travel.

Either parent can attend sports games, practices, lessons, extracurriculars, etc. Based on my son's schedule, attending events plus my days of custody would provide an opportunity to see him at least 5 days a week, sometimes 6. Not bad.

I'm staying positive, silver linings, Daddy runs the show at the house without interruption or critique, that will be nice. But how much is the back and forth going to suck for the kids? Worried about this, but it's happening no matter. Love input on what has/hasn't worked for others.

Originally Posted by Gekko

Daddy runs the show at the house without interruption or critique, that will be nice.

It is a beautiful thing.

Quote

But how much is the back and forth going to suck for the kids

The biggest thing that scuks for the kids is forgetting things. They learn to get what is important. They learn to have two things, one at moms and one at dads.

We had too many exchanges at the beginning and my daughter (5 at the time of divorce) was always confused on where she had to go.

I think your friend gave you great advice. Put as much detail into holidays, times of drop offs and pick ups etc. and then later on you can be more lax.

My situation is very different then yours we have an 85/15 split (my lawyer had said we needed to try to get ex to take son more so that I had a chance to make more money. I did not want to push for that.) but in hindsite I wish I had included things in our decree like if son gets sick we alternate who stays home or picks him up from school. Who is responsible for half days and school holidays etc. It falls entirely on me and I honestly would have been fired if it wasn�t for my parents.

I get son every Christmas morning and ex gets him from 10 to 2 during the day. The other holidays it�s in our decree that we attempt to split and if not it�s to alternate each year (but ex gives me most holidays and I let him have 4th of July which he likes to spend with son).

Our decree specified that son spends each parents birthday with that parent regardless of whose day it falls on as well (again in my situation not an issue as ex actually switched with me so he did not have to spend his birthday weekend with his son) but in high conflict cases I have heard dads upset that they have to celebrate their birthday without their kids.

We also put something in there regarding baby sitting. Other parent has a right to know who kids are left with. Travel away - other parent has to be notified as well.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Quote

But how much is the back and forth going to suck for the kids

The biggest thing that scuks for the kids is forgetting things. They learn to get what is important. They learn to have two things, one at moms and one at dads.

Two of everything is my goal, cost be damned. Probably can't avoid an occasional snafu but won't lack for trying.

Thanks for the insight juju. My career involves dealing with lots of contracts, and I am a detail guy to the max. Every possible contingency has to be addressed. Between me and my L we are going to end up with a document that spells out everything we can think of. W's eyes will bug out (or at least roll) but I want it down in writing.

I never in my wildest dreams thought I would be drafting a custody agreement for my kids. It's just crazy. This is real life now. My kids are young so the majority of their childhood will be spent dealing with this shyt.

Originally Posted by Gekko

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Quote

But how much is the back and forth going to suck for the kids

The biggest thing that scuks for the kids is forgetting things. They learn to get what is important. They learn to have two things, one at moms and one at dads.

Two of everything is my goal, cost be damned. Probably can't avoid an occasional snafu but won't lack for trying.

Gekko,

You're doing well there. Hang in there. This is my goal too. I built my S11 his pc from scratch a few years back and its time for a newer one. 1 alone could cost upwards of 3k easy. To get 2 of them ugh... then new bikes, new ipads, and consoles... I know it can sound all materialistic and I don't like the sound of it, but we've slowly accumulated those things over time, the different consoles, the bikes, and now it's like we have to double up on some of those.

My kids favor their blankies. Right now they leave them all over, and mostly in W car. I can see this being #1 issue if yours favor something that's easy to leave behind.

My SIL bought a laptop for her son to travel between her xH and her place. The son eventually stopped taking the laptop between places because he would forget something or he'd have to leave it out. They had the weirdest of drop off schedules. Sometimes it would be during dinners we had at restaurants so he would bring bags of his clothes etc...

Its so hard on the kids, even when they are young. My ex left when son was 4. It actually took my son a week to figure out his father had left, as my ex�s hours were arranged in a way he barely interacted with son (slept late and came home late). My son is now 8 and divorce and being different from his class mates is a prevalent concern for him. His autobiography for his book �x is 8 years old. He likes karate and Pok�mon. His parents are divorced�. Or he will say things like, brothers and sisters fight a lot. When people fight they get divorced� or �a really bad thing happened to me. My parents divorced�. I think it�s harder on the older kids though.

I think when you have kids , it�s just so important to put the effort in and make your marriage work. To me the only reasons to end a marriage are if the other person is unfaithful, physically abusive or leading a double life (addiction, financial indifelty). The problem is you can�t work on the marriage unless both people want to. Both people have to be committed to the marriage if not to each other. We all know that love is a choice not a given.

The verbal abuse stuff gets really tricky. It�s corrosive. Have you ever googled why people criticize and why they are negative? They usually are just as negative towards themselves. It�s what they were exposed to growing up. It would take a lot of self reflection and effort for your wife to change. Maybe she will do that for her children.

I was pretty negative myself and made a huge effort to make sure that I did not expose my son to that. I don�t know if my negativity was warranted (my ex was a high functioning secret addict that was leading a double life- I did not know till I got access to financial stuff) or if it was something I had genuine issues with and perhaps the cause of my ex�s issues.

I do recognize how important that validation is to you after my experience with my ex boy friend though. It�s comes on slowly and you feel horrible and depressed and resentful but not sure if it�s you being hypersensitive. My friends all told me, �nope. Not you. He�s way off�

Originally Posted by Adam04

Originally Posted by Gekko

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Quote

But how much is the back and forth going to suck for the kids

The biggest thing that scuks for the kids is forgetting things. They learn to get what is important. They learn to have two things, one at moms and one at dads.

Two of everything is my goal, cost be damned. Probably can't avoid an occasional snafu but won't lack for trying.

Gekko,

You're doing well there. Hang in there. This is my goal too. I built my S11 his pc from scratch a few years back and its time for a newer one. 1 alone could cost upwards of 3k easy. To get 2 of them ugh... then new bikes, new ipads, and consoles... I know it can sound all materialistic and I don't like the sound of it, but we've slowly accumulated those things over time, the different consoles, the bikes, and now it's like we have to double up on some of those.

Thanks Adam. I am about to feel your pain in the wallet.

Originally Posted by JujuB

The verbal abuse stuff gets really tricky. Its corrosive. Have you ever googled why people criticize and why they are negative? They usually are just as negative towards themselves. Its what they were exposed to growing up. It would take a lot of self reflection and effort for your wife to change. Maybe she will do that for her children.

Well I doubt it juju but I have learned long ago to never say never. W is a glass half empty person generally, high-strung high-anxiety Type A competitive, never wrong, never apologizes, controlling micro-manager to the hilt. She has a lot to work on.

I'll never forget the day I had just D(4) with me in my car and we were stopped at a red light and she yelled "c'mon, lets' go, what's the hold-up!" My heart sank because she was mimicking my W, who constantly spews that kind of stuff whenever she is driving. I had to calmly explain the light was red and no one could move, and that we never yell about traffic or other drivers. Bad habit for a 4 year old.

So I will have my kids for 50% of the rest of their childhood, away from the W, and be able to impress my values on them and what is/is not healthy behavior. Never going to talk smack about the W, EVER, to them. Just going to lead by example and try to mold the behavior as best I can. It's one of my top purposes in life.

Originally Posted by JujuB

I think when you have kids , it�s just so important to put the effort in and make your marriage work. To me the only reasons to end a marriage are if the other person is unfaithful, physically abusive or leading a double life (addiction, financial indifelty).

Juju, I couldn�t agree with you more. Kids are the reason that LBS sacrifices happiness in a R and does everything they can to stay in the M. They are the motivating force to put up with all of the crap spewing from the MLC/WW. The LBS sees how devastating D is on young children and it astounds me that W is so selfish that she can�t see the impact.

Originally Posted by Gekko

So I will have my kids for 50% of the rest of their childhood

Gekko, my heart breaks for you. Not haveing the opportunity to be with your kids everyday is the absolute worst part of D in my opinion. It�s reassuring that you plan to make the best of your time with them and hopefully mold them so they never have to experience D in their lives.

So a recent incident to report....

First, W said that S(7) was peppering her with questions about who decided they wanted the D, and W eventually told him that we both decided on D. I was boiling on the inside when W told me this. I told her that is a lie and that it was the one thing I said not to say to the kids. W got angry and said "what was I supposed to say!". I told her months ago that this was going to be a question she had to answer and she should have one ready that did not name me as part of the decision. That she should have kept deflecting or figured something out and not to mislead .S(7).

I said I was going to have to think about what to do about this betrayal of what we discussed, implying I might talk to S about it. W then became livid, finger in my face, saying not to put the kids in the middle and not to try an pit them against her because she would "win", they would take her side because she is their mother. I was stone faced as she went on her tirade. When she stopped to take a breath I asked "are you done?". She finished up by "warning" me not to say anything.

Honestly this particular issue is one of the most perplexing as far as how to handle and what to say/not say to the kids. I want no ownership of the D decision but I recognize the need to do what's best for the kids. Anyone with thoughts on this, I would love some input, THANK YOU!

Hi G,

I am going to give you some input, that is based on my own experience and growth from my journey. I can not nor will I tell you, what I believe is right for you, but I can tell you, what ended up being right for me - hopefully that will be of use to you - I will try to make my self as clear as possible, however english is not my maternal language, and sometimes, I do mess up what I am intending to portray, hopefully you get what I am trying to say.

So basically, I was through a horrible end my relationship - my ex had just returned to her job from maternal leave, and not 3 months later, she is having a PA with her co-worker, whom she then left her, at the time, S1 and D4 for.

I was filled with resentment (I still have a lot of anger boiled up with the fact that 1: my kids will be broken of sorts from this experience, that is devastating to me, and I hold her accountable, and always will. 2. I am missing out on half of my children childhoods, and that is also devastating).

I came from a place of frustration, resentment, anger and simply being completely unable to see, that my life continues, with or without my ex, and because of that, I told her, and held her to the following for a long time: When we were to tell the kids, then they should know, that this was not a mutual decision. That daddy did not want the family to split up.

As time went by, day by day I just let go of a bit of my old self, and I have surrounded myself with people who love me, activities that make me happy, and I appreciate every minute that I get to spend with my kids, on a level that I haven't really thought about earlier, and I most likely do spend more time with them with 100% focus on them, than I did when I had them 100% of the time.

I am at a place in my life today, where we are telling our kids that mommy and daddy are friends, but we are not going to live together anymore, and that they are going to have not one, but two cool bedrooms now. <-- what changed? I grew, I detached, and I realized, that my kids has absolutely no need to know, that mommy wanted out at the age of 2 and 5. There will come a time, when they are grown up individuals with an evolved kognitive understanding of how relations work here in life. When that time comes, they will be able to grasp the truth, and then, only then will they get to know, what happened when they were little. My ex knows, that this day is coming, and she knows that she will have to own up to it, but not now - for now, my 2 and 5 year old angels just need to focus on what interior they want in their fancy new rooms, what dress D5 wants to wear tomorrow, and S2 just need to drive around on his pushbike - basically, they just need to have the best, stressfree childhood, that I and my ex can provide them with - they didn't ask for this (neither did you - but we are the grown ups, we are the ones who take the beatings, so our kids can live in unknowing bliss and in return, we get to see the stars in their eyes whenever they experience something for the first time, because they are innocent, and for as long as humanly possible, that is my quest to keep them innocent, happy and safe).

I hope that makes sense to you.
(hugs)

I like "Clarifying the truth". I am not sure if that is the best choice.

I really like what hurt213 said.

I am sure I have quoted many more opinions in my quote thread. Different ages get different responses.

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The point of reading books like "Helping Your Kids Cope With Divorce" is to figure out what actions and behaviors will help your children cope with a trauma that you have no control over.

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You do NOT need to tell your kids that you agree with this, and in fact,you shouldn't. "Your mother and I disagree, I do not want a divorce right now, but I accept her decision and we both still love you very much" -- something like that.

You know it�s funny how the LBS will say they don�t want a divorce because it�s not good for the kids. But at the same time they won�t say it�s mutual to young kids which is best for the kids and they won�t agree to family birthdays and Christmas� which is best for the kids.

These are all just ways of trying to keep the WW in a situation they don�t want be in which is not good for anyone involved including the children.

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You are there to help your kids make sense out of the sitch your xw chose to put them and you in. They know. They just do. Don't give them more info than they need but don't lie, either.

You can google Michelle wiener Davis on you tube on what to tell the kids... she disagrees with the United front and called it a �flat out lie�. She has a nice way of wording things though. I really agree with her on this.

I chose to not lie to my son who is now 8 but he was 4 at the time. He asks me questions about who wanted the divorce and I told him that his father did. And that mommy believes in only divorcing someone if the other person did something really bad. Like hitting someone.

I do not want my son to think it�s OK to leave a marriage with a young child without working on it. I do not want him following in his foot steps. My ex mil lied to my ex about how his dad left them (his dad eventually came back when he was young) but he thought his dad ignoring them and taking separate vacations was normal. She Told him stories about how he was out provided. To my knowledge, my ex still doesn�t know the truth. I think it really messed him up. I feel like normalizing dysfunction (which is what ex mil did) really messes a person up. My ex ended up living this weird secret double life.

I do make sure to tell son that his daddy and I both love him. That his daddy left me and not him. And I tell him that his daddy left because he has problems. (His dad is a high functioning addict that depleted marital funds for years)

I believe this would be a good tool for you:

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Sense- Observation (When you, I see�.I hear�I read�.
Thought (I believe�.It seams to me�
Feelings
ANGER (I am frustrated�
SADNESS (I am disappointed�
FEAR (I am worried�
REGRET (I am sorry�
LOVE (I appreciate/understand�
Need (I want�What I propose ...I require� The response I would like to hear is.....
Consequence - My Future Response (If you choose not to�.If you continue�

I started:

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H" W, I have thought about our recent conversation. I need you to listen until I am done. Will you do this?"
W "ok?"

I appreciate that you told me the truth about what you said to S7.
I am frustrated that you are telling our kids things that are not true.
I am disappointed because I thought we had an agreement not to lie to our children.
I am worried about what and how we say things will effect them.

Can you fill in the rest?

Part of this process is interacting better with W.
I am sure you would have no problem doing this verbally, others might find it better to write a letter.

Originally Posted by JujuB

You can google Michelle wiener Davis on you tube on what to tell the kids... she disagrees with the United front and called it a �flat out lie�. She has a nice way of wording things though. I really agree with her on this.

I chose to not lie to my son who is now 8 but he was 4 at the time. He asks me questions about who wanted the divorce and I told him that his father did. And that mommy believes in only divorcing someone if the other person did something really bad. Like hitting someone.

I do not want my son to think it�s OK to leave a marriage with a young child without working on it. I do not want him following in his foot steps. My ex mil lied to my ex about how his dad left them (his dad eventually came back when he was young) but he thought his dad ignoring them and taking separate vacations was normal. She Told him stories about how he was out provided. To my knowledge, my ex still doesn�t know the truth. I think it really messed him up. I feel like normalizing dysfunction (which is what ex mil did) really messes a person up. My ex ended up living this weird secret double life.

I do make sure to tell son that his daddy and I both love him. That his daddy left me and not him. And I tell him that his daddy left because he has problems. (His dad is a high functioning addict that depleted marital funds for years)

For what it's worth, I did not lie about the situation. I told them the truth (that I didn't want the D), but I also said that both of us were responsible for the breakdown of the marriage. I owned up to my mistakes. I told them that we both love them very much and that we'll have a great life and got them excited about the new situation. Telling them the truth did not do them harm. They are adjusting well. If you do tell them the truth, then I think it's VERY important not to then tear down there mother (or father). My motto is "tell the truth but stay classy."

Thanks all for the input, very helpful to "talk" this issue out.

For the time being I am going to lay back on this. I already called W out on it and the way things were left she does not know if/when/what i'm going to do about it, which is good for now. I am going to work up something to say to S(7) in the event he raises the question to me.

OK so here's another issue:

W's parents are divorced. Her dad is local and I have seen him a number of times since W told him about the D and neither one of us has said a word about it to the other. On each occasion, W and kids have been around so her dad and I have not had any one on one time. We have just been carrying on business as usual.

W also disrespects her dad routinely, with critical commentary and condescending remarks. It's painful to watch. From time to time I interject because the guy does not stand up for himself enough and it's so hard to hold my tongue. W does it in front of the kids sometimes and it is a horrible example of how to speak to grandpa. I'm 99% certain that at least a part of him feels bad for me as he knows how W can be.

Anyway, when the opportunity arises with a moment of 1 on 1 time I am planning on saying something like " sorry I couldn't figure out a way to make things work with your daughter, I know this suks for you too, this sitch doesn't change the way I feel about you at all, i'll never interfere with you getting time with the kids whenever you want". Any thoughts on this approach?

I would not discuss it at all with him unless he brings it up. Listen and validate. Just let your actions speak for you.

I interact with my X-inlaws during kids sporting events etc. I DB them as well. Always happy, polite, engaging.

What to tell the kids and how to handle contact with the in-laws is a very very difficult thing for me too. My kids are older and they knew full well the M was not working and that we were both unhappy. The Eldest is old enough to have his own opinions, and my challenge there is validating his feelings while not colluding with him or allowing him to be disrespectful to H. At the moment, we're in a a kind of limbo and Eldest would love me to say 'H is never coming back, we're splitting up' and Youngest would love me to say 'Daddy will come home soon - we're working on it' - I don't think I can honestly say either of those things. What I do say is 'the way things were was making us all unhappy and it is over now. It will never be like that again. What things will be like in the future, I do not know - but I know Daddy loves you and misses you and I know we're both working hard on being the best we can be right now,' and that seems to be okay for the time being.

I don't have any contact at all with my in-laws. I'm sad about that, and quite hurt too - and I don't know how that will work if and when there is an R - but I am choosing not to worry about that at the moment, and supporting my children in having relationships with their paternal family by making sure they're available to see them when H arranges that contact. I did make one phone call pretty early on in the situation to my MIL just letting her know she was welcome to arrange contact with the kids via me at any point if she wanted to, and despite the fact we'd had a good relationship previously, MIL was very cool with me, changed the subject entirely, and hasn't been in touch since. I've decided just to let that lie for the time being.

Thanks for the input R2C and Alison.

I am leaning toward the idea of not bringing up D at all with the in-laws, but responding if they raise it. FIL may never bring it up. MIL probably will. I'll let you know if/what is said, could be of some interest to the board.

If the rope is still in my hands, it is very very loosely so. I feel like my emotional scales have tipped in favor of moving on. I am beginning to look on the internet at houses to buy or rent in my town, and find myself daydreaming about being free from W and all the silver linings that come along with freedom. I find that I really am not imagining a future with W at this point. The concern that she may be in a EA/PA has pretty much faded away. I am thinking almost entirely of myself, the kids, and what our new life is going to be, and what is going on with W is not of much concern at all.

I am cordial but not initiating conversations, and my responses are usually short and to the point. I end conversations first. I am always busy busy busy (Steve85) - not a stretch for me, always have been, no sitting around. GAL remains in full swing. I go out with friends several nights a week, work OT several nights and hit the gym several nights (after the kids are down). It's great.

More updates to come, thanks for checking in.

Just met with my L, and we are on the same page about how I will be proceeding. W is going to have file for D, and then I will take the lead on custody agreement and financial terms. I am going to drive that bus.

I also scheduled a meeting with my accountant next week to discuss the impact of D and how settlement terms might impact my taxes. I need to know what moves to make and what to avoid.

I have already taken an inventory of all household property so we can discuss division and buy-outs.

This is primarily a business deal for me at this point. Can't lie that yes there is some level of emotion still there, but I am 6 months BD and zero spinning going on. Once I got through telling the kids many weeks ago, it was like turning a page. The next big emotional hurdle is getting the kids accustomed to 2 homes, but until then, it's just business.

Am I detached and has the rope been dropped? Pretty doggone close. A recent long conversation with my dad helped. He described W as "toxic". He said his own W would not be that kind when describing my W. Is it strange that I feel a punch in the gut whenever I hear others confirm my take on my W's issues? It's also a feeling of relief. It's a strange combo of feelings. Bittersweet to an extent.

Last week was the first time since BD that W said she was going out to dinner with "some friends". I said that's fine I love a daddy night with the kids. Didn't ask with who or where she was going, or when she'd be back. She left at 6 and was home at 10:30 - I was already in bed. Next morning, I didn't mention a word about her dinner - just made the kids breakfast and shuttled them off to school. Was she on a "date"? Who knows. Do I care? On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being "I am freaking out she is definitely cheating!!", I am an honest 2. Feels great to be at 2, on my way to 0 or as close as I can get.

So far I have been a very good boy and am avoiding OW. Can't lie, OW are on my mind quite a bit, and my town and the next 2 towns over are stocked with beautiful women. All in due time.

I thought a few weeks ago, "am I done DBing? I am moving on, dropping the rope, I don't care anymore, IDGAF, I'm beyond GAL I HAVE a life, I don't want a R with this person as she is now." Then I realized that with this attitude, maybe I am DBing at an even higher level now.

That all sounds good Gekko. Keep it up.

So the W's L just mailed me the D papers, they have been filed, so it's officially underway. My L is going to file the response. We are still planning to go to mediation.

I am still working on drafting up my terms for custody. Hopefully we can come to terms. Regarding the house, W's parents are going to give her the $$ to buy me out, it's just a matter of the price. I have always watched the market in our area and have a very good idea about value. The house is at least "average" and I therefore have average the last year's worth of houses of similar size and want that to be the basis for the buyout. It's a tract housing development so comps are good. I can tell already W is going to try and lowball me, she does nothing but point out every nick and blemish the house has, "it just needs SOOOO much work..."

Much as I love the house and neighborhood, I have come to terms with the fact that I am not going to keep it. After getting to that point, I thought I would rent a similar house in the neighborhood, but rents are crazy high and I don't want to do that to myself either. I have decided to find a condo close by, there are a few communities within 10 minutes that are pretty nice and would be $750-$1,000/mo. less than a bigger house in my neighborhood. I'll need to downsize by about 1200 sq. ft. and lose the yard and privacy factor, but the kids will still have their own rooms, a community pool, same area and schools, and after a few years of renting I will have saved $20K over renting a bigger place.

The four big downsides I am feeling these days are 1) sadness for the kids/prepping for the kid custody shuffle; 2) downsizing the size and quality of my home; 3) renting instead of owning and therefore not immediately setting up a new long term house for the kids and me; and 4) finances - money will be much tighter due to maintaining two households.

Emotionally I am pretty rock solid and honestly looking forward to getting out of the house and on my own again. As my thread title suggests I am not without fault, but through IC I continue to learn that much of my actions were pretty standard responsive/reactive things to W's harsh, abrasive commentary/criticism, micromanagement and control issues, and high strung nature. IC says the toxicity dance of our R is behavioral science 101, it's a script she has seen play out in many M's. My W works in a competitive, male dominated profession, and she exudes some masculine energy that she doesn't leave at the office, and that is another big part of the problem.

I'm still IHS, probably for another few months. I am pretty much all business with the W but very present and emotive with the kids. No overt drama or arguments happening. I am cordial with W but cool, not warm, like a I said pretty much businesslike and to the point. Yes I could be warmer, maybe should be, but at this point I want space, I want out of the IHS, I want my $$ out of the house and I want to get into the reality of an actual physical separation. I want to turn the page and move on, and W appears to be sensing this very well. She recently commented "I know you don't like me and just want out, but blah blah..." I said "you came to me and told me ILYBINILWY and you wanted a D, so that's what's happening, that's all."

I got a supportive text from a female friend in my circle of friends who just heard about the D, she is also D'd, she is very cute, sexy and fun, and therefore very dangerous to me at this stage....She suggested we get together for a drink and that she is there for me whenever I want to talk. I have purposefully not disclosed the D at my office due to the number of very good looking women in my industry who will provide even more temptation if they knew the sitch. Trying to keep my wits about me until I can get out of the house and into my own space. Even then I plan to tread carefully at first, but I am very much looking forward to being unencumbered. I'm guessing there will be lonely and depressive moments that will hit me, but hopefully not too hard. Hopefully I am not overestimating the positives of the dating world I am about to re-enter. I guess we'll see about that this summer.

Keep you guys posted, love this place, the ability to post is so beneficial.

You are on the right path. Good job on waiting for one door close before opening a new one.

Thanks R2C. W hasn�t provided much intimacy for a long time, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. The sense of upcoming liberation is incredible. I�m sure W feels the same way, but I don�t care. On a scale of 1-10 that bothers me at a 2. It�s all about me being freed up to interact with women who want to be around me, and quality time with the kids without the W. Can�t wait, even though I know some sad shyt will be mixed in too.

Gekko, sounds like you are handling things well, it's expected that you're feeling a little down, that's part of it!

Regarding the home and your thoughts that W will lowball you, I kept our house and as part of the D had to get an appraisal done. I think it cost around 250 bucks. An independent appraiser will review your house inside and out and note any deficiencies in a report. They will then review comps in the neighborhood and prepare an official report with pics of the house, pics of the comps, condition description, etc. And that report will assign a dollar value to the house. That appraisal became part of the D decree and settlement described in the D. At that point there's really nothing left to argue!

Quick update:

My L is drawing up the response to the W's petition for divorce. Should be filed within about a week.

I believe W still wants to mediate but she has not responded to my last text about choosing a mediator - I found one who is much cheaper than the one she suggested and with good reviews.

I gave W a written list of custody terms and am waiting for a response.

I proposed a home value to W to base the buy-out on. Her cousin (lives out of town) is a realtor and I think she gave W an idea about what the property is worth and I'm guessing W doesn't like the number (too high). I know W spoke with her a week ago to talk numbers but W has not told me anything. If her cousin gave her a low number, W would have run to me with it and said "see, I told you!" So now she is wondering what to do.

I think she is afraid of an appraisal now as houses have been hitting all time highs in my town as there just isn't much selection and its a great area. I spoke to a buddy of mine across the country who is an appraiser and who has been to the house a few years ago and he gave me an informal number that is almost identical to my number and the number that a real estate agent gave me. I'm concerned about putting all my eggs in one appraiser's basket so my number is based on a realtor, an informal appraisal, average sales prices over the last 6 months and current list prices. So a lot of data all averaged together.

I did find a condo that came up for rent that is about 10 minutes away from my house, and I put down a deposit. It is not available until summer but inventory is very low in my town and I just jumped on it. I want to get to a written settlement with W before I move out but even if I don't I think I will still move. I know the recommendation on not moving out until a deal is in place but man am I ready. I don't see how it will hurt me as I am not keeping the house, won't be paying a dime into the house and I am getting 50/50 custody for sure as the law is rock solid in my state. Need to talk more with my L about the move but would appreciate any input from the vets and the board, thanks.

GAL is going good but again this was never an issue. I am currently planning summer and fall travels, a few trips with the kids and a few for me with some friends. Part of my ramped up GAL is to start hitting some places I have wanted to see but haven't been there yet, bucket list type stuff, starting with mostly domestic locations. Can't wait.

It seems like a lifetime since I have had a R talk with W and I have never pursued, begged or pleaded other than the evening of BD where I said we should get into counseling, but W said too little too late. I can tell you it feels so good to have taken that path and the no R talks lately has also been great. We have a joint business, raising the kids, and its all business for me with minimal small talk and just basic pleasantries - "hi, how are you?", "well, goodnight" type stuff.

W has made a few comments such as "I know you don't like me very much, but can you do X" I didn't have a great response to first part, so I just say "sure" to the second part. Any ideas on how to deal with the first part? When in doubt I just ignore that kind of stuff, and i'm happy to keep going with that strategy. I'm not looking to get into that discussion right now, unless I am missing the boat on something, do tell vets, thanks.

Overall a sad sitch to be in a D but I am pretty upbeat and ready for the transition. I know this is a marathon situation and the dynamic will change radically when I'm out of the house, and I look forward to that. I will NEVER pursue W, it doesn't even cross my mind to be honest. There may be a time down the road when an R talk happens but it is also something I really don't think about. I just want to get my $$ out of the house, lock down a custody agreement, set up a new home, gets the kids settled and move on, turn the page and enjoy what the future will bring.

Journaling:

Making incremental progress toward settlement with W. Might have a sticking point with the custody schedule I proposed (3-4-4-3) as W and I both want to have the kids on the same days. My suggested solution is that W gets the desired days for the first half of the year, and then we flip for the second half of the year and I get those days. Figure that is as fair as it gets, but W is resisting - she wants the days she wants and does not want a switch at 6 months. More to develop this week....

Life has been busy with OT at work, lots of kids sports and activities, time at the gym, and drinks out with friends. Interaction is still somewhat curt with W but she has toned down the snide commentary a bit which is nice. She is grappling with some frustration that I am not caving to her wants regarding home value for the buyout and the custody schedule, and she has lashed out several times, and I am as cool and matter of fact as can be in response.

Never get sucked into an emotional debate with the W, let her rant, threaten, stomp her feet, etc etc. It's sounds like Charlie Brown's schoolteacher to me. Never fear what W will do - in fact don't fear anything. Accept what is happening, DB, GAL, stay calm, cool and in control at all times. Sure there will be times when the emotion starts bubbling up inside, but keep it there. Vent to a friend or IC if need be. W doesn't control you, you control you. Who cares if she gets upset? She wants a D, this is a D. But don't be vindictive, be fair and reasonable, know when to compromise and when to hold firm. These are some of my many mantras as I navigate my sitch.

So I think many of us are in the same boat with Mothers Day looming - what to do? A recap of my sitch - W has filed for D, we are currently IHS, I am hoping to move within a month or so. My view is that I will get her a card from both kids and something small from each kid, and that's it. Not planning anything as a family for the day - no brunch, no nothing. She can go do something with the kids if she wants.

Perfect!

Originally Posted by Gekko

So I think many of us are in the same boat with Mothers Day looming - what to do? A recap of my sitch - W has filed for D, we are currently IHS, I am hoping to move within a month or so. My view is that I will get her a card from both kids and something small from each kid, and that's it. Not planning anything as a family for the day - no brunch, no nothing. She can go do something with the kids if she wants.

YUP. Let S7 pick out something. Give him some ideas if needed.

Originally Posted by Gekko

My view is that I will get her a card from both kids and something small from each kid, and that's it. Not planning anything as a family for the day - no brunch, no nothing. She can go do something with the kids if she wants.

^^^Nailed it!^^^

It is not about your and her it is about your children. She is still their mum and they will want to give her something. Do it for them.

Dont make it too personal - i got my H a card from each of the girls and a small silver key ring with each of the girls initials on fathers day. He does the same for me. This year I got cards, flowers and a bracelet. It was his day to have them but he didnt hesitate when I asked if i could take them to lunch even though he had planned to take them around his mums form mothers day lunch. He took them in the evening instead. The girls asked if i could join them and he said sure as Kong as mummy is ok with it. Children shouldn't be used as pawns. I may not like everything he has done, but i respect him as a father. Your W will respect you as well, but more importantly, your children will.

Gekko,

For Mother�s Day weekend it�s my week to have the boys. I told W they can spend mother�s day with her. She did invite me over to the house since her side of the family is doing a crawfish boil. I declined. I asked my S6 and S11 what they want to get mom, and S6 said chocolates and S11 said flowers. We will spend Saturday creating something personal for her like a thank you card from them for all the wonderful things she�s done for them. I might encourage S11 to make a poem or S6 to draw a picture. Whatever they want to do for mom I will encourage.

I have an estranged relationship with my mother now, but when I was younger like my children�s age, I thought the world of her and I still remember all the nice things I made and did for her. She too remembers and mentioned it years ago.

Here is part of an email exchange I had 10 years ago with W:

Originally Posted by R2C

It appears there is some confusion regarding this fathers day. I would like to reach a mothers day / fathers day agreement with you.

I was talking to the children about fathers day and they all said "Mom said she doesn't want us to be with you on fathers day and there is nothing in the paperwork." In the past, you have dropped the kids off the night before at 6p and I dropped them back off at 6p. I did check the divorce agreement and there is nothing regarding Fathers day or Mothers day.

I see two options that are best for our children and allow them to spend mothers day/ fathers day with the appropriate parent:

1) 24 hour option --> 8:30p the night before to 8:30p the night of
2) 11.5 hour option --> 9a the day of to 8:30p the day of

Do either of these sound good to you? If not, do you have another suggestion?

If I don't hear back from you by 5p today, I will initiate the mediation process to help us come to resolution.

Thanks for you attention to this matter.

Best Regards,R2C

Originally Posted by W

I searched the paperwork last week and saw nothing regarding Mother's/Father's Day. I told the kids that we would stop by so that they could see you and then we' head to celebrate with my dad.

Originally Posted by R2C

Yes, searching the paperwork will not give you the answer to my question. Searching your core values will. I have spoken with each of the children and they all expressed their deep desires to share mothers day with you and fathers day with me. We can do the right thing for our kids and allow them to spend fathers day with me and mothers day with you. Or we can fall back on legal paperwork. Your choice. I just suggest making the right choice for the right reasons.

If you change your mind before 1p tomorrow (That will give you ample time to speak with the children and hear their true feelings as well as consult anyone else) , let me know and we can work out the exchange times.

If I don't hear back from you, I will consider this matter closed (even though I don't think it is the right choice) and we will stick to the normal parenting schedule on mothers day and fathers day from this point forward.

Best Regards,R2C

Originally Posted by W

I talked to the kids - I'll agree to dropping the kids off around 11a on Sunday and expect them home at 7p. Let me know if this doesn't work for you.

Quote

Exchanges at 11a and 7p this Sunday works for me. Thank you.

Regarding all future mothers day / fathers day, would either of these work for you so that we can plan accordingly:

3) 9a the day of to 5p the day of.
4) 5p the day before to 5p the day of

R2C

I have a pretty detailed draft custody agreement, but W has not agreed. In fact, she now wants custody the exact same days that I put down for myself in the agreement. No surprise. I want the kids from Sat 5 pm to Tuesday school drop off, she gets every Wed after school to Sat 5 pm, and we rotate Tues night every other week. So its a 3-4-4-3 schedule. To compromise I offered to swap schedules with her every 6 months so at least we each get our preferred schedule for 1/2 the year, but she won't do that, she wants her days for the whole year. Says its bad for the kids to change schedule every 6 months. I'm not so sure about that, as many schedules I have seen don't have the kids at the same house on the same days every week, so that is a lot more change than I am proposing and people seem to be doing it. Not sure how this is going to play out but it could be a major battle.

Originally Posted by Gekko

I have a pretty detailed draft custody agreement, but W has not agreed. In fact, she now wants custody the exact same days that I put down for myself in the agreement. No surprise. I want the kids from Sat 5 pm to Tuesday school drop off, she gets every Wed after school to Sat 5 pm, and we rotate Tues night every other week. So its a 3-4-4-3 schedule. To compromise I offered to swap schedules with her every 6 months so at least we each get our preferred schedule for 1/2 the year, but she won't do that, she wants her days for the whole year. Says its bad for the kids to change schedule every 6 months. I'm not so sure about that, as many schedules I have seen don't have the kids at the same house on the same days every week, so that is a lot more change than I am proposing and people seem to be doing it. Not sure how this is going to play out but it could be a major battle.

Your offer of switching every 6 months sounds very reasonable, but if she refuses then I'm not sure it's worth a prolonged court battle versus just agreeing to give her the slot she wants. It sounds like a pretty even split regardless, so you're really not that far apart on an agreement.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Your offer of switching every 6 months sounds very reasonable, but if she refuses then I'm not sure it's worth a prolonged court battle versus just agreeing to give her the slot she wants. It sounds like a pretty even split regardless, so you're really not that far apart on an agreement.

That's the trick AS - where to draw the battle line.

She has also proposed we just do a temporary schedule for now so I can move out of the house. I'm not too keen on a temporary deal but I really do want out and into my own space....

Draw the battle line at 50/50.

Or let her pick one day, you pick the next she picks the next. You split the last.

Originally Posted by Gekko

That's the trick AS - where to draw the battle line.

She has also proposed we just do a temporary schedule for now so I can move out of the house. I'm not too keen on a temporary deal but I really do want out and into my own space....

It's really up to you but I will say that this happened to me: in the 11th hour when the D was ready to file my XW suddenly hit me with additional unexpected expenses in the D settlement. I think it was something like 15k, so not a small amount. I asked her via text, very politely, if we could sit down and discuss these added items because I didn't understand her description. And believe me that is putting it mildly, what she sent me was absolute gibberish, it was incomprehensible. What I got in response was surprising, it was a fuming rant that I needed to lawyer up and we would let the lawyers fight it out in court, and "believe me, I will tell them everything and you will come out on the losing end". I literally had no idea what she meant by "tell them everything", her response just stunned me. All the D negotiations had been quite peaceful up to that point, and here she was suddenly turning into the wicked witch of the west.

Anyway I felt all the depression and anxiety that I had finally put behind me starting to creep in again, and the thought of a prolonged court battle and possible slip back into depression really had me concerned. 15k wasn't worth some possibly very serious health issues to me, especially at a time when I was in a very fragile recovery. So I finally replied back "I simply wanted you to explain where you came up with these amounts as I didn't understand your description, but if you feel this is fair then I will trust you and sign off on it." And I did, and I don't regret it one bit because it was all over, signed, filed and done shortly after.

Divorce is compromise and usually neither part walks away thinking they "won". Try to negotiate a settlement you can live with, even if it's not the one you would have preferred.

I hear you AS. Nobody is winning in my divorce game. My continuing aim is to be fair but firm, same as in the contract negotiations that I deal with at work.

The Day After Mothers' Day Silver Lining:

I am plus about $700 due to no spa treatment for W and no expensive brunch after.

Originally Posted by Gekko

The Day After Mothers' Day Silver Lining:

I am plus about $700 due to no spa treatment for W and no expensive brunch after.

Seriously, whoever came up with the line "cheaper to keep her" wasn't married I don't think

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Originally Posted by Gekko

The Day After Mothers' Day Silver Lining:

I am plus about $700 due to no spa treatment for W and no expensive brunch after.

Seriously, whoever came up with the line "cheaper to keep her" wasn't married I don't think

Also on my plus side is that with 50/50 custody there will be no child support, W makes great $$ so no spousal support, and W has her own retirement accounts so no raiding mine for half....

I also didn't overspend on Mother's Day. Not sure how she took it. I brought home a gift from a work trip last month and she told me bluntly not to buy her gifts.

Originally Posted by unchien

I also didn't overspend on Mother's Day. Not sure how she took it. I brought home a gift from a work trip last month and she told me bluntly not to buy her gifts.

Gifts = Pursuit, don't do it.

My W is not getting any gifts from me, of any shape or size, for any occasion. She will get 1 small gift from each kid for Christmas, Birthday and Mothers' Day, with the kids being part of the selection process. Eventually they will take on that task for themselves.

Hey Gekko,
I see a ton of parallels between our sitches, especially some things about W behaviors. I also was on the opposite end of being a NG and need to soften up a bit on certain things. My W can be so hyper critical about the smallest most insignificant things. I could do something perfectly and she would find something to nitpick. I read your sitch and a lot of times you would react with a joke or smiling. Do you have any other examples of good ways to react to that toxic criticism? And we�re there ever times you would shut it down?

Thanks

Originally Posted by Hallzy9

Hey Gekko,
I see a ton of parallels between our sitches, especially some things about W behaviors. I also was on the opposite end of being a NG and need to soften up a bit on certain things. My W can be so hyper critical about the smallest most insignificant things. I could do something perfectly and she would find something to nitpick. I read your sitch and a lot of times you would react with a joke or smiling. Do you have any other examples of good ways to react to that toxic criticism? And were there ever times you would shut it down?

Thanks

Hey Hallzy, thanks for stopping by! I just posted on your thread, take a look, and good luck buddy!

Gekko update:

Still no progress on a formal custody agreement and division of property. Looks like we are going to have to get the mediator and possibly the L's involved to get this stuff hammered out. W will not respond to any of my proposals in writing.

At this point I am eager to move out of the house and get the kids 50/50.

W has not been critical or nasty for over a week, but much of that is because I am barely interacting with her. I am continuing to be affected by others' opinions of her. I was out with a couple of mutual friends for beers, their W's are friends with my W as well. I gave them a very general update on our status and they both commented that W is probably very "tough" to negotiate with. I just looked at them with raised eyebrows. One of them then said that his W liked my W but......and left it hanging as if to say she is not overly enamored with her. So I am continuing to be hit with outsiders' observations of W. Unsolicited. It is honestly causing me to withdraw from W even more.

I did a search on the interenet and this stood out:

Quote

Just go straight ahead and get the matter before a judge as soon as you can. Don''t waste time and money trying to negotiate with someone who refuses to engage with the process.

I am thinking something like this:

H"W, When you say you want a divorce, but then refuse to negotiate, I feel frustrated. Negotiation is part of the divorce process. I have given you my proposal. I expect a response by (this date). If you do not respond, I will petition the courts asking for mediation. Thanks for your attention on this matter."

I learned that giving the other person two choices (both of which I am fine with) works well.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Originally Posted by Gekko

That's the trick AS - where to draw the battle line.

She has also proposed we just do a temporary schedule for now so I can move out of the house. I'm not too keen on a temporary deal but I really do want out and into my own space....

It's really up to you but I will say that this happened to me: in the 11th hour when the D was ready to file my XW suddenly hit me with additional unexpected expenses in the D settlement. I think it was something like 15k, so not a small amount. I asked her via text, very politely, if we could sit down and discuss these added items because I didn't understand her description. And believe me that is putting it mildly, what she sent me was absolute gibberish, it was incomprehensible. What I got in response was surprising, it was a fuming rant that I needed to lawyer up and we would let the lawyers fight it out in court, and "believe me, I will tell them everything and you will come out on the losing end". I literally had no idea what she meant by "tell them everything", her response just stunned me. All the D negotiations had been quite peaceful up to that point, and here she was suddenly turning into the wicked witch of the west.

Anyway I felt all the depression and anxiety that I had finally put behind me starting to creep in again, and the thought of a prolonged court battle and possible slip back into depression really had me concerned. 15k wasn't worth some possibly very serious health issues to me, especially at a time when I was in a very fragile recovery. So I finally replied back "I simply wanted you to explain where you came up with these amounts as I didn't understand your description, but if you feel this is fair then I will trust you and sign off on it." And I did, and I don't regret it one bit because it was all over, signed, filed and done shortly after.

Divorce is compromise and usually neither part walks away thinking they "won". Try to negotiate a settlement you can live with, even if it's not the one you would have preferred.

I literally had the same thing happen. EXWW was threatening to tell the judges "everything". I had already spoke with several L's. I was doing nothing to worry about. I simply responded to her telling her that she isnt going to bully me.

I had to repeat that recently when she started demanding I owe her thousands of dollars in household expenses.

That reminds me, I need to call the court to see if they added the child support to the divorce or if there isnt any expectation of child support.

Thanks for the input all. I will say that my W seems a bit different than most of the Ws I read about here in that she does not threaten to go into court. She wants an amicable settlement, so she says. I have said a few times that if we can't reach an agreement I am fine going to court, and she takes this as threats from me. I'm not threatening, it's just a fact that we either settle or we go to court, it's that simple. I don't want this outcome but it is hanging over us because we do not have an agreement and divorce papers have been filed. My L says we can delay the court case for quite awhile because the judge wants us to reach an agreement.

I am now 7 months past BD. I felt better at month 5 than I do now for some reason, maybe because now 1) I am getting into important negotiations that are stressful and 2) the reality of an actual physical separation is here, which will impact the kids greatly. It really is a bit of a rollercoaster, I was up pretty high and now I am back down a little. I still look to the future with much optimism, but a major life change is imminent and I know there will be some shyt to slog through. PMA has been key. Have to say that I can see how some people just get crushed by BD and D and go into a tailspin because it's tough stuff. I feel for those folks and am grateful that for whatever reason I have a solid frame that can take the hits without imploding. I think I need to thank my Dad for helping establish this. I think I will call him today.

Gekko update:

Well it's been a few weeks since I posted and in the interim W sent me a response to my custody proposal. She wants a completely different schedule than we talked about, she wants the best holiday schedule and a shorter time frame on being able to introduce new love interests to the kids. No real surprise on any of this I guess.

I have not responded and am weighing my options. First option, and the current leader, is filing forms with the court asking for my preferred custody schedule. W will hit the roof if I do this but I truly do not care. Option 2 is to respond by changing things back to my preferences on the document and sending it back to her. Option 3 is straight to mediation, but I have to say I do not feel good about spending thousands on a mediator who may not be able to broker a deal, then I am out that money.

I am still IHS, eager to move out and on with life but not going to move an inch until I am satisfied it will not hurt my sitch. Until I get some basic terms agreed to in writing I am not going anywhere.

I did an overnighter with my S and a few of his friends and their dads, went to a baseball game and then spent the night at a hotel. So much fun. One of the other dads and I went to grab a beer on the concourse, and he said he didn't mean to pry but that my W had told his W that we were on the rocks. I told him we are beyond that, we are done, it's just a matter of the paperwork. He then stunned the shyt out of me by cheerfully saying "Congratulations! Sorry I don't mean to talk out of turn but I'm sure there is someone out there that will be much better for you. I just want what's best for you man."

This is a guy who I have only known for 2 years and don't see that much of. His W interacts some with my W due to kids stuff. But we do not hang out very much, so somehow he and/or his W have seen enough to develop an opinion where he is congratulating me on getting divorced from this woman. I swear this kind of input always throws me.

Hope everyone here is doing well and marching forward, back with another update soon!

Updating:

Looks like the condo I am going to rent will be available in about a month. The owner is having some work done and I said no problem. While I have no specific custody agreement yet, in W's filing with the court she agreed to 50/50 legal and physical custody, and my L says that is enough to protect me if I move out.

Why am I the one moving out? Because W will buy me out with her dad's money or we will sell. Either way, I'm not keeping the house. I wish I had seen BD coming years ago and prepared myself financially, I might have been able to keep the house which would be amazing because I love the place. But can't change the past.

Also, after 8 months IHS has about run its course. I'm ready for a physical split. I believe there are a few vets here that believe IHS can be counter-productive, which I think after awhile is probably true. Talked to my dad yesterday and he said "I don't know how you've been doing it man." I said "it's all intestinal fortitude." "God bless you" he said. LOL.

I am still following. You are not the typical LBS. Do you feel like you have made positive personal growth changes over the past 8 months?

Originally Posted by Gekko

Updating:

Looks like the condo I am going to rent will be available in about a month. The owner is having some work done and I said no problem. While I have no specific custody agreement yet, in W's filing with the court she agreed to 50/50 legal and physical custody, and my L says that is enough to protect me if I move out.

Why am I the one moving out? Because W will buy me out with her dad's money or we will sell. Either way, I'm not keeping the house. I wish I had seen BD coming years ago and prepared myself financially, I might have been able to keep the house which would be amazing because I love the place. But can't change the past.

Also, after 8 months IHS has about run its course. I'm ready for a physical split. I believe there are a few vets here that believe IHS can be counter-productive, which I think after awhile is probably true. Talked to my dad yesterday and he said "I don't know how you've been doing it man." I said "it's all intestinal fortitude." "God bless you" he said. LOL.

Gekko, if you can look back in 10-15-20 years without regret, and honestly tell yourself that 8 months was long enough, then I say go for it. However, if you don't think you'll be able to do that, regrets last a lifetime.

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

You are not the typical LBS. Do you feel like you have made positive personal growth changes over the past 8 months?

I have. The biggest thing is that I have cut out the defensive responses and counter-attacks to W's criticisms and barbs. It's not the right way to handle her shyt. I've got that part down really well now. I have a different mindset and reaction to when W violates my boundaries - completely calm, matter-of-fact, never triggered (outwardly...). But I do call her out every single time she spews an insult. I never let them go. I just can't sit back and accept it. And she just can't help herself, she can't seem to just stop. But I am definitely calm. Sometimes I am spinning on the inside but I hold it down. When that goes away, I think I'll have really made it to where I want to be.

How to be truly friendly to someone that always seems to have a poison dart ready to fire at me? What a tough sitch man. So she's a snide clerk at the store, how do you interact with the snide condescending critical clerk? She can be nice but then a minute later - zing! - here comes the snide dart. It sux.

So I feel like I've got the response part down well, but the overall friendly interaction...? Needs work but it's a mountain to climb, it's Everest in my sitch, and W's at the summit rolling down rocks and ice on my head. Every time I feel like I'm getting into a decent spot, another snide comment comes raining down and I just want to get out and away.

Originally Posted by Steve85

Gekko, if you can look back in 10-15-20 years without regret, and honestly tell yourself that 8 months was long enough, then I say go for it. However, if you don't think you'll be able to do that, regrets last a lifetime.

Thanks Steve. Right after BD I told W she was free to move to the guest suite or right on out the door to get "space". I wasn't going anywhere and I didn't. But the legal process is moving ahead and decisions on the house have to be made. At some point I look weak if I'm not decisive. For many months I gave W the "I'm evaluating my options" line, but that ship has sailed. I eventually told W I will not buy her out, so W and her dad are going to buy me out and we've been talking numbers, or a possible sale of the house if we can't agree. W has been pressing for awhile. She wants out and if I go silent on the house issue I am standing in her way, appearing to be intentionally roadblocking D, and looking weak IMHO.

Based on my sitch I have little doubt the right move now is to get out of the house and either cut a deal on a buyout or list the house. IHS with someone who is pressing the D process......is not fun. I'm not helping her, but I can't endlessly block her either. Trust me I wish I had the cash to buy the house, then she could hit the bricks, but that's not my sitch.

I have a great IC and have a lot of tools on how to deal with W better than in the past. I have no plans to stop DBing. But W is going to have to get into therapy and make some significant changes if I am ever going to consider a R with her. I can't control that and therefore spend little time wondering or hoping about it. I am focused on myself and learning how to be a better man. A lifelong process.

As for regrets, who can predict? Do I have regrets as to how I responded to W's harshness, attacks and insults? In general terms, standing up for myself and calling her out on her BS? No regrets there. But some regret on the defensiveness, counterattacks and stonewalling. Plenty of room for improvement there. Regrets regarding the D? No. W is pulling the plug. I told her I wanted to work it out, get into therapy, and she said no chance. While I played a role in the underlying issues, and accept such, progressing to D is her deal. So it's doubtful I will ever regret moving into another place at this stage instead of hanging on IHS for however long the legal process would allow me.

I had a conversation with my aunt (we are very close) today, she is very concerned that I am the one moving out of the house because she thinks W will use that against me in the future when discussing the D with the kids, as if D were my idea and I was breaking up the family. I told her that if W is intent on playing that game, she could do it regardless of who moves out. If she moved out she could say she didn't want to but I was treating her so poorly she had no choice, etc.

Aunt thinks that both of us should move out and sell the house so we are on equal footing. I told her that I want the kids to stay in the house for awhile so they have that comfort of the same house 50% of the time, that 2 new houses is too much right now and not necessary. I also told her that if W wants to slam me she will find a way in this scenario as well - "I wanted to keep the house but Daddy is making us sell it."

Sometimes I feel like my family is suffering more than me. I am doing a lot of comforting - "The kids are doing great so far (they are)"; "I've got everything under control, don't worry"; "i'm actually doing really well in spite of the sitch, life is pretty good believe it or not"; blah blah blah. Everyone says they can hear in my voice that I'm solid and it seems to alleviate some of their stress. I can sense their relief at the end of our phone calls. It feels good to help them get there.

You are being a great role model for your children.

Thank you R2C. I was charged with that obligation from their birth to my death. I cringe at some of the mistakes I have made (re discipline, etc) but every moment with them provides a new opportunity to get it right.

Update:

I just received a draft separation agreement from my L that we want in place before I move out next month to protect me financially and custody-wise. Hopefully we can get a full settlement agreement done before I move but it does not seem likely at this point at the pace things are moving. L says the separation agreement is rock solid and we are also strategizing on how to ultimately get the custody schedule I want.

W has continued to show no signs of a desire to R and wants to get on with division of assets, property etc. No problem. I won't be rushed but I won't unnecessarily delay. L says we probably have 2-3 months of wrangling before we get a final deal in place, assuming no litigation over custody schedules.

I am working on month 9 post-BD, all IHS, and the thought of my own space is fantastic. I think reality will hit during the moving process, and I will miss my house. It's going to be a little rocky but I will power through. The kids are excited to have a new place, but I am expecting them to miss their mom and that there will be some initial issues with homesickness when the move is done. I am going to have to read up on the specific sitch of kids in Daddy's new house, away from Mommy, to get some pointers and insight on the issues that will arise. I'm not dreading the impact on the kids as much as I was dreading telling them about the D, but I am concerned about how they will fare in the new place.

Originally Posted by Gekko

I'm not dreading the impact on the kids as much as I was dreading telling them about the D, but I am concerned about how they will fare in the new place.

What did you tell the kids and how did they take it? sorry if you already covered this earlier in your thread.

Gekko,

If it's anything, I too had those same feelings. My children, at the age they are, took to the transition better than I thought. I think as the LBS, I may have made things more accommodating for them when the kids were with me on my week. It was still tough. I did consider getting professional help for my younger son, but things are turning out for the better.

You're doing a helluva job taking care of what you need to.

I also believe you will find a lot of relief when you are physically separated and you will continue to make the best of it and be a great dad for your kids.

Originally Posted by MLCxH

Originally Posted by Gekko

I'm not dreading the impact on the kids as much as I was dreading telling them about the D, but I am concerned about how they will fare in the new place.

What did you tell the kids and how did they take it? sorry if you already covered this earlier in your thread.

We sat them down and told them we were getting D'd but provided no reason, we just focused on the fact that they would still live in the house, go to the same school, same friends and activities, etc., just that mommy and daddy would be living in separate houses, so they would have 2 homes. And we told them that we would all still be living together for awhile (been 4 months now since we told them and i'm still IHS).

My 7 yr old cried for awhile and had to be comforted, have to say it was pretty painful to watch. My 4 yr old wasn't fazed at all. W cried, I did not. I honestly wasn't even close to crying. I got misty from time to time in the weeks prior to BDing the kids, just worrying about it, but I was solid in the moment and after and since. I'm glad we have passed that milestone in this shytty process.

Originally Posted by Adam04

Gekko,

If it's anything, I too had those same feelings. My children, at the age they are, took to the transition better than I thought. I think as the LBS, I may have made things more accommodating for them when the kids were with me on my week. It was still tough. I did consider getting professional help for my younger son, but things are turning out for the better.

You're doing a helluva job taking care of what you need to.

I also believe you will find a lot of relief when you are physically separated and you will continue to make the best of it and be a great dad for your kids.

Thanks a lot Adam, it is always great to get input from someone who has already traveled the road ahead of me.

I have moments from time to time where I think "is this really happening?" I am thinking that as I type this. And now I have a smile on my face as I say "yes it is really happening, this is real life". Smiling not because it's a happy thing, but because smiling makes me feel better. And despite my sitch I do have a pretty great life and a lot to be very happy about. And I am ALIVE and get to experience life, whereas I have some good friends who are not alive anymore. I believe they would trade places with me if they could.

Life is beautiful and W cannot change that for me, she does not dictate my happiness. I am going to continue to enjoy everything that life offers, navigate shytty times like this with as much grace and calm as possible, keep my eye on the bigger picture, and continue to work on self-improvement and being a better man, father, son, brother, nephew, cousin, friend, employee and relationship partner. This is my life, I don't believe in reincarnation so this is my one shot at living on Earth, I will not waste any precious time letting W or the D bring me down. The future is wide open.

As we continue on a path to physical separation, I am scarcer and scarcer in communications with W. Once the kids are down for the night I am out with a GAL activity 50% of the time and absorbed in a project or task if I am home. 95% of all our interactions are in front of one or both kids, and there is no nastiness coming out of her. She saves that for when we are 1 on 1, so I have all but eliminated that scenario by my scarcity and being busy busy busy.

We did have an interaction a few nights ago about selling the house, and W spewed snide commentary about my home repair skills. I told her I have no interest in listening to her insulting comments, and that we can continue the conversation at a later time when she can interact with me like an adult. I then left the room to go work on a task.

W followed me and angrily said "why are you so angry? why are you running away and hiding? you are so sensitive, you get butthurt so easily" etc etc. I thought it was funny that she was angrily asking me why I was so angry, especially when I was stone faced calm. I said "I'm not angry and I'm not butthurt, I just have enough self-esteem to not sit there and listen to you insult me. I don't have a second of time for you when you speak to me like that. Let me know when you think you can stop with the snide comments, and we can try again later."

This interaction is a great example of how W's mind works - she can say anything to me and cloak it in the "i'm just being blunt/honest/not sugar coating" excuse. She can therefore never be out of line in what she says, and if I don't like it i'm just too sensitive or butthurt. I am at the point where I find it funny in a macabre way.

Originally Posted by Gekko

We did have an interaction a few nights ago about selling the house, and W spewed snide commentary about my home repair skills. I told her I have no interest in listening to her insulting comments, and that we can continue the conversation at a later time when she can interact with me like an adult. I then left the room to go work on a task.

W followed me and angrily said "why are you so angry? why are you running away and hiding? you are so sensitive, you get butthurt so easily" etc etc. I thought it was funny that she was angrily asking me why I was so angry, especially when I was stone faced calm. I said "I'm not angry and I'm not butthurt, I just have enough self-esteem to not sit there and listen to you insult me. I don't have a second of time for you when you speak to me like that. Let me know when you think you can stop with the snide comments, and we can try again later."

Great, you handled that perfectly! She's probably wondering "who is this person?" And that's a good thing!

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Originally Posted by Gekko

We did have an interaction a few nights ago about selling the house, and W spewed snide commentary about my home repair skills. I told her I have no interest in listening to her insulting comments, and that we can continue the conversation at a later time when she can interact with me like an adult. I then left the room to go work on a task.

W followed me and angrily said "why are you so angry? why are you running away and hiding? you are so sensitive, you get butthurt so easily" etc etc. I thought it was funny that she was angrily asking me why I was so angry, especially when I was stone faced calm. I said "I'm not angry and I'm not butthurt, I just have enough self-esteem to not sit there and listen to you insult me. I don't have a second of time for you when you speak to me like that. Let me know when you think you can stop with the snide comments, and we can try again later."

Great, you handled that perfectly! She's probably wondering "who is this person?" And that's a good thing!

LOL yeah the old me would have sat there with her and defended and argued. It is so much more effective to avoid doing that reactive type of response and instead just calmly maintain boundaries. I used to defend my boundaries with a flamethrower, now I am placid as a lake on a windless day.

Projection. You handled it perfectly. Hold up the mirror.

Originally Posted by unchien

Projection. You handled it perfectly. Hold up the mirror.

Thanks unchien. I can't say it enough how much the calm and cool demeanor makes everything W spews so much easier to deal with. It's almost like Neo in the Matrix where everything slows down and you see behind all the BS.

Exactly - and the calmer and cooler you get, the more you start to recognize the level of denial you had been living in beforehand, tethered to the emotions of your partner.

Originally Posted by unchien

Exactly - and the calmer and cooler you get, the more you start to recognize the level of denial you had been living in beforehand, tethered to the emotions of your partner.

Some form of denial definitely sprung from overconfidence earlier in our R. I witnessed W on occasion speak to people in a nasty, abrasive, disrespectful tone - like her dad, her mom, the clerk at the department store. It was offputting but didn't happen all that often and she had many many great qualities. And I knew for sure the she would NEVER speak to me like that, after all I'm Gekko, no one talks to me that way. I think one of the morals of my story is that if you see your significant other speaking to others in a harsh way, it's only a matter of time until that attitude is going to be directed at you.

So true. I also saw my W cut people out of her life - friends, family - once she categorized them. Now I�m on the list. It�s part of the reason I doubt her when she does talk about reconciliation, it�s not her style to admit any fault and work through difficulties in relationships.

Originally Posted by Gekko

Originally Posted by MLCxH

Originally Posted by Gekko

I'm not dreading the impact on the kids as much as I was dreading telling them about the D, but I am concerned about how they will fare in the new place.

What did you tell the kids and how did they take it? sorry if you already covered this earlier in your thread.

We sat them down and told them we were getting D'd but provided no reason, we just focused on the fact that they would still live in the house, go to the same school, same friends and activities, etc., just that mommy and daddy would be living in separate houses, so they would have 2 homes. And we told them that we would all still be living together for awhile (been 4 months now since we told them and i'm still IHS).

My 7 yr old cried for awhile and had to be comforted, have to say it was pretty painful to watch. My 4 yr old wasn't fazed at all. W cried, I did not. I honestly wasn't even close to crying. I got misty from time to time in the weeks prior to BDing the kids, just worrying about it, but I was solid in the moment and after and since. I'm glad we have passed that milestone in this shytty process.

Telling the kids is a big milestone and I am glad you got past that reasonably well. That is probably the toughest part of this whole thing that one person is determining the future of everyone in the family. I think it becomes easier once the kids know and you can start focusing on helping them adapt

[/quote]

Telling the kids is a big milestone and I am glad you got past that reasonably well. That is probably the toughest part of this whole thing that one person is determining the future of everyone in the family. I think it becomes easier once the kids know and you can start focusing on helping them adapt
[/quote]

I'm expecting some bumps in the road for sure. Missing mommy, wanting to go to mommy's house, that kind of stuff. I'm bracing to get hit with it. All I can do is be the best dad I can be and make our new house awesome for them. The kids are very young and we have a long way to go before they launch, it's going to a long haul for them shuttling between homes. I'm a pretty upbeat positive guy but I can't lie that I am bummed out over that aspect of the sitch.

Kids are very adaptive, some take more time than others , as long as both parents act like loving parents. There are lots of positives in kids eyes to having two homes . Extra presents etc . Most importantly stay strong for the kids , they come first . Hide the sadness if you can until they aren�t near . It�s a horrible thing but try to make it as best you can for them .

Originally Posted by Gekko

I'm expecting some bumps in the road for sure. Missing mommy, wanting to go to mommy's house, that kind of stuff. I'm bracing to get hit with it. All I can do is be the best dad I can be and make our new house awesome for them.

This is the tough part. Not just missing mommy when they are at dad's house but also missing daddy when they are at mommy's house.

Originally Posted by Tryhard

Kids are very adaptive, some take more time than others , as long as both parents act like loving parents. There are lots of positives in kids eyes to having two homes . Extra presents etc . Most importantly stay strong for the kids , they come first .

That is good advice. Hopefully they will adapt well. All we can do is try on our end

Thanks much for the input you guys. I love my kids with all my heart and want them to have amazing lives, and a D will not stop that from happening. We have many incredible adventures coming up and lots of memories to be made. And day to day life is going to be solid. Just gotta take a few lumps here and there, that's all.

On that note as an update my new landlord advises my new place will be ready at the end of July. My L and W's L are putting the finishing touches on a separation agreement that must be signed before I exit the premises. Main issues are 1) house must be listed for sale or W's dad must cut me a check for $x; 2) must agree to 50/50 custody; 3) I keep all my investments and no alimony or child support; 4) even split of everything in the house; 5) W takes over 100% of all payments for the house, I am free and clear of it. W has seen at least the first draft of the agreement that my L drew up so she knows where I stand and I told her point blank I am not moving out with the agreement, I will get my deposit back on the rental and just stay put. My L from talking with her L says we are going to reach a deal, and I trust their word.

I know there has been a lot of talk on the board about not moving out and I AGREE in general. I look at my sitch in phases regarding housing:

Phase 1: is BD and shortly thereafter - no way was I moving out, not even going to leave the MBR.

Phase 2: a span of up to about 5 months after BD - still staying put, crunching numbers on whether I could keep the house, not committing to anything, deflecting all attempts at detailed discussions, the "i'll have to think about that" phase LOL.

Phase 3: 5+ months after BD - conceding it will be financial suicide to keep the house, developing strategy on how to proceed, setting pre-requisites for a move out, looking at property, negotiating terms and planning the transition. I am late in this phase now, working on month 9 post BD.

I wish I could afford the house because I would be staying. I envy those of you who didn't budge. But I am going to end up with a nice payday whether we sell or I get bought out, so that will ease the pain a little...:)

Originally Posted by Gekko

Missing mommy, wanting to go to mommy's house, that kind of stuff. I'm bracing to get hit with it. All I can do is be the best dad I can be and make our new house awesome for them. The kids are very young and we have a long way to go before they launch, it's going to a long haul for them shuttling between homes. I'm a pretty upbeat positive guy but I can't lie that I am bummed out over that aspect of the sitch.

Just keep validating feelings:

�I understand how frustrating this must be for you. Mommy and daddy agreed that you will be here until Wednesday. How about we bake some cookies.�

Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Originally Posted by Gekko

Missing mommy, wanting to go to mommy's house, that kind of stuff. I'm bracing to get hit with it. All I can do is be the best dad I can be and make our new house awesome for them. The kids are very young and we have a long way to go before they launch, it's going to a long haul for them shuttling between homes. I'm a pretty upbeat positive guy but I can't lie that I am bummed out over that aspect of the sitch.

Just keep validating feelings:

I understand how frustrating this must be for you. Mommy and daddy agreed that you will be here until Wednesday. How about we bake some cookies.

Validating kids. Can't overlook that. Thanks for the reminder R2C.

Link to new thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2854975#Post2854975