Wow. So where do I begin? My story actually starts four years ago when my husband went through his “first MLC”. He woke up one morning and out of the blue, announced to me that he wasn’t living the life he was supposed to be living, loved me but not in love with me, etc... you know the drill. Once I had gotten over the shock, I made the decision to stand (didn’t know then what it was called) and told him that divorce was not an option (financially it was impossible), that I felt he was clinically depressed (and out of his mind) and that it was his responsibility to do what he needed to do to get his head on straight. And then I stepped back and that is what he did. What followed was six months of self exploration - some counselling, joined a men’s group, went on a couple of men’s retreats, and spent one month living in his friend’s garage. I did my best to support everything but also to take care of my own needs. Three months after his declaration, I even forced myself to go on a planned trip to Hawaii by myself while he stayed home with the kids. Hardest thing I ever did but I was determined. Long story short, he returned home of his own accord a month after moving out claiming to be back to “normal” and “in love” with me again. When asked about the previous months of confusion, he would tell me that everything was “fuzzy” and he felt like he had been in a fog and not thinking clearly. Two months after his return, he developed Shingles which became somewhat chronic and necessitated a lot of treatment that had him staying away nights in a local hospital. Unbeknownst to me, at some point during that time, the treatment slowed down but he went back to his MLC ways only this time, he was camping out at various places pretending to be at the hospital and avoiding me and his “life”. Looking back, I recall that he seemed quite depressed but I chalked it up to the Shingles. Fast forward to 2017 with this strange life of being home for short periods of time and gone for long periods of time but all the while working full-time save for one month in 2016 when he took a medical leave. It seems like a long period of time to live like that and honestly, I think there were many times when I questioned things but he would always have an answer that seemed plausible and there was a part of me that was just too tired dealing with everything and really didn’t want to know. In 2017, my mom was dying of cancer and I got the idea that we should move closer to my family which was in a much less expensive area to live. I found a job posting within my organization that I felt I would get and approached him with the idea of moving. I kind of expected him to balk at the idea but to my surprise, he was super enthusiastic and within three months, I got the job, he found one too, we sold our house for a ridiculous amount of money, paid off every debt we had and bought a beautiful ocean view dream home for cash in the new community. I thought we were home free as many of our stresses just went away. For the first eight months we were here, he was like a different person. Happy, engaged, present, pain well-managed, future-oriented, and satisfied with his life. We bought a boat (he had always wanted one), spent time fishing and boating together and just basically enjoyed our new reality. We even took our family on a trip to Mexico which is something we hadn’t been able to do since our kids were 7 months old... they are almost 11.
Then...without warning... his pain returned in March 2018 and he announced to me that he had to go back to the hospital. And he did this... for awhile... and, like before, when the treatment regimen stopped being every night, he continued to act as if it was still continuing and spent almost every night away from home... but continued to work and come home until around 5 or 6 when he would leave. I know now that he wasn’t going to the hospital but was spending alone time on our boat (my key went “missing” around then so I would have to borrow his if I wanted to go down there) and then in June he sold his beloved car that he had been restoring and told me he was going to use the money to restore a different vehicle. I later found out that he has been using the money to rent a suite for himself where he continued to spend his evenings isolating from the world. All of this eventually came to a head almost a month ago after my suspicious brother-in-law decided to put a tracker on his car and found out where he was going. Of course, everyone assumed it was an affair and I confronted him on it but he swore up and down that it was not (“just a really messed up guy”} and the next morning (he stayed the night in our home), he took me there so I could see where he had been living. Sure enough... tiny little depressing place with many items from our home that I hadn’t yet realized were missing and no sign of anyone else... and I looked very carefully. When I asked him “why”, all he could tell me is that he “couldn’t stand living with me anymore” [huh? I had barely seen him and when I did, we didn’t fight, I supported him in everything he wanted to do, I was literally killing myself to not stress him out as I thought it would just make his pain worse]. He later backtracked on that and said that as crazy as it sounded, it was the only place he could go where the noise in his head would go away and he could just concentrate on one thing. He also laughed when I suggested he might still be lying about an affair and said that he has lost all interest in sex with anyone and has become almost asexual... definitely depressed because this was not him. He then proceeded to stay home for three days straight listening to me toss “truth darts” in his direction and breaking down at various points saying that he didn’t deserve me, that he used to be a good person, etc... a lot of shame and guilt. Finally after three days, he asked me if he could return to his place in the evenings to think and process and when he was able to do that, he said it helped him. He also went to our local crisis clinic (crying the whole way there apparently)and got a counsellor and signed up for group therapy to help him deal with his depression and anxiety. He has attended those weekly for the past three weeks. Sounds like a good step, right? Only one hitch... a week ago last Sunday, he announced to me that he felt like he wasn’t ready to return home and although he didn’t use those words, he intimated that he was thinking about divorce and had not given notice at his place like he said. He then left and I had a horrible six hours of emotional pain which I had to hide from our children. Why six hours? Because, six hours after he left, he texted me to say that I had been right... that he had run away and hadn’t tried to make things work with us. He said he was ashamed and sorry and didn’t know how he could ever recover or face anyone but that he wanted to come home and try to regain my trust. The next day he texted me random ideas about what he thought might help and we even met for coffee. I, of course, supported him and told him that we would work it out. In hindsight, I might have been too enthusiastic because he stayed at his place “packing and processing” and I agreed to it because he told me he would be returning that Sunday with all of his stuff. For the remainder of the time, he was around helping with house stuff and seeing the kids and having lots of good talks but always running off to his place to sleep and ‘think”.
On Sunday morning, he comes over without his things and asks if we can talk. He then stares at me in a forlorn way and I know... he doesn’t want to come home. He then tells me that he still does not feel ready to come home and starts talking about possibly staying a couple more weeks. At this point, I am not happy at all and I realize in that moment that if he comes home, he will be distracted by everything else going on and not focusing on himself. I also realized that I didn’t want to have to walk on eggshells around him and feeling like I was auditioning for my role as his wife. So...I found myself taking a deep breath and doing the exact opposite of what I wanted... I told him to go... not in anger, more like in resignation. I told him that I didn’t want him home until he really wanted to be there and wanted to work on our relationship. I didn’t talk with him about timelines or rules or anything... just asked him to leave and told him I would be taking a step back and giving him space to work things out. I made sure he knew the door was open for him to contact me if he needed to talk but that I would only be contacting him regarding the children and was going to use the time to figure out who I was as I think that has been lost in the last four years with me focusing solely on his needs.
And so it has been three days and I have been as quiet as I can be. It’s been tough. He came by yesterday morning to take our daughter to tutoring. I plastered a pleasant smile on my face and it was awkward. Luckily they had to rush off. Later that afternoon, I had to text him about parent-teacher interviews and it was a very pleasant exchange that went on longer than it needed to. He was actually writing quite a bit (unusual) and even complimented me on my parenting and offered to take our son shopping for clothing. I suggested he do that on Sunday as I was having guests for dinner (my attempt at GAL) and I knew our son would not like what was being served. Friday is the next day I know I will see him, our daughter has a belt test for her TKD and wants us both there. I am gearing myself up to look happy, calm and totally kid-focused, say goodbye as soon as it ends and then I will hold my head up high and walk away without looking back. Just have to make sure I sit closer to the door than he does.
Anyway...that’s my story thus far. Sorry for how wordy it is. Hard to sum up the last four years in a few paragraphs.
Posted below is Cadet's Welcome Posting. Please read all of the homework, as there is a lot of good information in each of the links.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-64, D32,S31
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
A couple things to note about my husband. He is essentially an only child although he has two half siblings who were born when he was an adult. His dad left his mom for a younger woman when she was 8 months pregnant with my H so he has never lived with both of his parents. His dad and he have a very distant, conflictual relationship. Throughout our marriage there have been periods of time when they haven’t spoken to one another - usually when my H does something that offends his dad. The not speaking thing has been a pattern with his dad his entire life. At this time, they have not spoken to each other since August 2017. His mom lives in a basement suite in our home and is a huge support to me. She is what I would call avoidant. She is a fantastic person but cannot stand conflict...as if anyone likes it. Just as an example - she found out what my H was doing on the same night that I did (I told her) which meant that he has been lying to her for as long as he has been lying to me. It’s been over three weeks and they have seen each other plenty of times but they have not said one word to each other about what has happened. They just carry on as if everything is normal. It is bizarre.
I come from the exact opposite situation. I have an identical twin who is my best friend and a younger brother who is very supportive of me but lives far away. We grew up in a two-parent home with parents who had their arguments but always, always worked things through and stayed married and devoted to each other until death. In my family, if you were upset with someone, you told them and you worked it out and forgave each other. The silent treatment did not exist in our home. Grudges did not exist either. So my H’s sitch is completely foreign to me and I realize now that while I was forgiving him on a daily basis for his faults and shortcomings, he was keeping a list of mine and holding on to them as a way of distancing himself from me. In hindsight, I definitely could feel the distancing and detaching but I wrongly chalked it up to his medical issues and just kept telling myself to be patient and that we could work on our marriage once he was better. How wrong I was.
Anyway... just wanted to add those details. I would appreciate people’s feedback and advice. Reading the posts on here has been very helpful and they have given me some hope and increased my resolve. I know there is a really good person inside my H. He comes out when he is with our kids who are thankfully somewhat oblivious to what is happening as they are so used to him being away. This doesn’t feel any different to them.
Thank you cadet. I already changed the password on my IPad. 😁
So...at home with a sick daughter and reading as much as I can. Doorbell rang a while ago and it was a bylaw officer saying that trees the former home owners had planted around a bus stop in front of our house need to be removed. So I texted my H and he replied immediately (instead of the usual 30-60 minute delay) to say that he would come over tomorrow after work to take care of it. I just about fell out of my chair. This from a man who a few weeks ago told me he couldn’t give a crap about mowing our lawn? A man who hates to be bothered with anything that looks like home maintenance unless it is his idea? To say that I was surprised and pleased would be an understatement. Anyway...I stayed totally cool. Thanked him for his help and asked him to let me know if he needed me to do anything to help him. He responded “okay” with a smiley face attached. Odd what seems like a big deal in this new reality of mine. Makes things interesting, I suppose.
It’s the morning of Day 5 and I’m starting to wonder if I made a mistake in asking him to leave. I am fully onboard with GAL and acting “as if” but there is a part of me that is angry at myself for making the decision for him. I mean, I am pretty sure it was what he was humming and hawing about anyway and would have done it on his own but maybe I should have just waited for him to say it and not helped him out? And shpuld I have told him that I needed space cause it feels like I set myself up for him to go dark on me. Save for a couple of housekeeping texts, we’ve had no contact and when we have, it’s been super pleasant, like neither of us have a care in the world and this is totally normal. He hasn’t tried to contact the kids either and they are used to seeing him every day. I wonder if he is missing them or if he is just using this time away to detach and tell himself that it was my choice for him to leave? That thought keeps me up at night.
. Anyway...just needed to get that off my chest. So wish I could just fast forward to the end of this story to see how it ends. Hoping for the best and preparing for the worst makes me feel like I am just treading water.
On the positive side, my weekend seems pretty full. My twin is coming over on Saturday for a sleepover as her husband is away. No way that H will drop by since he is avoiding my family like the plague. I’ve told him she supports both of us but her and her husband were the people who “outed” him and he is too ashamed to face her (he told me this a week ago - “too ashamed to face anyone”.) Sunday another friend is coming over and we are making Thanksgiving dinner (I live in Canada). H is taking the kids that day so he is aware of the dinner.
Would appreciate people’s thoughts on my questions? Did I jump the gun?
DV6, just be careful with these exchanges. Keep everything business like. No need to thank him, he hasn't done anything yet!
You: Trees by bus stop need to be removed.
Him: I'll come over tomorrow after work to take care of it.
You: Okay
Any pressure or pursuit you engage in will be felt. And yes, your over exuberance at his offer to help (assuming he follows through on it) comes across as pressure.
AS far as the decision to ask him to leave, I am not going to answer that. But read your own words:
Then...without warning... his pain returned in March 2018 and he announced to me that he had to go back to the hospital. And he did this... for awhile... and, like before, when the treatment regimen stopped being every night, he continued to act as if it was still continuing and spent almost every night away from home... but continued to work and come home until around 5 or 6 when he would leave. I know now that he wasn’t going to the hospital but was spending alone time on our boat (my key went “missing” around then so I would have to borrow his if I wanted to go down there) and then in June he sold his beloved car that he had been restoring and told me he was going to use the money to restore a different vehicle. I later found out that he has been using the money to rent a suite for himself where he continued to spend his evenings isolating from the world. All of this eventually came to a head almost a month ago after my suspicious brother-in-law decided to put a tracker on his car and found out where he was going.
...
On Sunday morning, he comes over without his things and asks if we can talk. He then stares at me in a forlorn way and I know... he doesn’t want to come home. He then tells me that he still does not feel ready to come home and starts talking about possibly staying a couple more weeks.
And then your question again:
It’s the morning of Day 5 and I’m starting to wonder if I made a mistake in asking him to leave. I am fully onboard with GAL and acting “as if” but there is a part of me that is angry at myself for making the decision for him. I mean, I am pretty sure it was what he was humming and hawing about anyway and would have done it on his own but maybe I should have just waited for him to say it and not helped him out? And shpuld I have told him that I needed space cause it feels like I set myself up for him to go dark on me. Save for a couple of housekeeping texts, we’ve had no contact and when we have, it’s been super pleasant, like neither of us have a care in the world and this is totally normal. He hasn’t tried to contact the kids either and they are used to seeing him every day. I wonder if he is missing them or if he is just using this time away to detach and tell himself that it was my choice for him to leave?
Okay now I get blunt. Only a complete moron could read that first paragraph, and then conclude that "that it was my (your) choice for him to leave". If he is telling himself that then he is a complete and utter moron.
He LEFT. You didn't ask him to leave, he had been gone already! All you did was " told him that I didn’t want him home until he really wanted to be there and wanted to work on our relationship." That was the RIGHT thing to tell him.
But you didn't ask him to leave, he was already gone, you just didn't allow him back until HE WAS REALLY RETURNING. You did the right thing.
Also, I think it is almost impossible that there isn't an OW. He can insist there isn't but no one. NO ONE spends that much time alone.
Try not to get too caught up in not having frequent convo with him. You agreed to give him space, now respect that and give him the space. You forcing conversations and interactions will not help, he will just feel the pressure even more. It [censored] for you, b/c this is your husband and you want more, but you need to stick to your guns and realize that if he doesn't want to be there, you can't make a person do anything. So he can be there when he really wants to be there.
Thank you Steve and ovrrnbw. I appreciate your input and advice. I have only contacted him three times since he left and all were necessary communications about the kids and the house. Other than that, no good mornings or good nights or I love you's which has always been our thing. I will continue to keep my communications to a bare minimum and business-focused.
I have been thinking about the OW thing too. So far, no one has caught him with anyone. My sister and her H tracked him for two weeks straight and my friend, who lives just around the corner from where he is, regularly drives by and walks her dog past his place and has never seen anyone there but him. However, it is completely possible that he could be having an online EA if not one in person. I have also been watching our accounts and VISA like a hawk (I've always done that so I know his spending habits well). He has only had access to his own money since the middle of May but prior to that, he had no access to anything that I don't have access to. All of his pay cheques go directly into our account and I know where all the money goes. There have been no big withdrawals ($20 here and there) and no strange charges to our Visa bill. This was the same when we were in our former home in a different city. So if he is seeing someone, she is paying for everything. And...he has always looked ill and depressed to me save for the eight months he was home prior to this spring and I would think that if he was in a "new love", he would have lost weight (he has gained) and looked a bit happier? I asked his mom about the alone time issue and she said that even as a child, he has always liked to spend hours by himself. He has a ton of hobbies and interests that he gets absorbed in so I can see him losing himself a little bit in that. I also think, knowing my H like I do, that if there were someone else, he would be a bit less conflicted about leaving and he would not have texted me last week about being ashamed and sorry and wanting to come home even though that only lasted a couple of days.
But, you are right, it is still a very real possibility. I think, though, for my sake, I am not going to dwell on it or torture myself with the possibility of it. In my mind, it doesn't really matter as it doesn't change the fact that he is gone and that I need to start focusing on myself and the things that I need to do in case he never comes back.
The good news about my H is that he is continuing to go to counselling so he is still recognizing that he has some work to do. I go past the clinic on my drive home and his car was there on Monday. He has also talked to me about some of the things they are teaching him in his group (his 3rd session is tonight) so I know he is still going to that as well. He is supposed to go there tonight and I will see a parking charge on our Visa if he goes like I did last week.
Anyway... again... thank you so so much for your replies. It really helps to know that there are other people out there going through similar circumstances and surviving... even thriving. I am very grateful.
He may have his own Visa. Very easy to get. And you would never know once he had another address to have it sent to.
That could be very true. I feel like if that is an OW, it is going to come out sooner or later and I am hoping I will be in a much stronger place to deal with it when it happens. I hope there is no OW but I am not naive enough to think my marriage is immune. For sure, it is very possible. But for now... I focus on me and working on my PMA.
Strange day today with my H. He came home to get our son and take him shopping for sweatpants... something I had jokingly suggested he could help me with in our text conversations yesterday. He then texted me a long account of how he had gone to three different stores and compared the length of a smaller size with the larger size so that he could find pants that would fit our tall but tiny waisted boy. He then asked some random question about why there is no such thing as an 8/9... as if I would know. He then texted me when he got back to our house to ask me if I would be home at the usual time and that he was thinking he might have forgotten to do something or drive someone somewhere. I said “no, not unless you are thinking about the tree issue I texted you about the day before.” He then texted that that was totally it and he feels better now that he knows what he was forgetting. It was close to his group time so he texted to say that he would be coming over after work tomorrow to take care of it. I then told him that his mom wanted something heavy moved that was in front of her door. Normally this would irritate him and instead he texted that he would “take care of it right away” and then five minutes later texted “done”. Normally it would have taken me three requests and four reminders to get him to do those things. I just replied “thank you” and left it at that.
I realized something in our exchange today. Keeping the rules in mind, pleasant, friendly, and business like, I realized that when he texted me about getting our son pants, my first instinct was to respond [as I would of prior to BD), “great but did you remember the tress?” I didn’t though because I realized that would negate the fact that he had just done something else that I had asked him to do. To me, the trees would have been a priority over the pants but I realized in that moment that it was not his and that was actually okay. I am so used to scheduling and prioritizing and reminding (my H has ADHD and relies on my reminders but, at the same time, resents them), that I think I have made him feel more like my child than my partner. The stupid thing is that I was, at some level, very much aware of this dynamic and I knew that it was eroding our relationship. For some reason, I just thought I would be able to fix it / change it “later”. Eleven years of marriage... when does later come?
I am rambling a bit now. I had a great day. Really good day at work (ironically, I’m a therapist), an appointment to get my nails done and a positive, surprising interaction with my H. Funny that as the sun goes down, my confidence and resolve does too and I start staring at my phone wishing it would ring or I could just text him my thoughts like I used to. But I know I can’t so here I sit journaling.
My DB book arrived today. Have read the Introduction and Chapter One. The part about how divorce affects children really got to me. I mean, I know it because I am a child therapist and I know how kids are impacted when their family structure changes - no matter how amicable it might be. It changes their world and I so do not want my kids to have to go through that. I want them to have what I had, not what my H had. Sadly my H never had his parents together so I think the really underestimates the importance of it.
It’s only been five days of this new reality (me asking him to leave) but it feels like five weeks. I miss him so much. Or maybe it is the idea of him that I miss given that he hasn’t really been here for the past seven months. I know I did the right thing. I am someone who has made a career out of doing the right thing. Why does the right thing have to be so darn hard?!? Okay... I’ve rambled long enough. Time to read some posts from others on this forum. Need some inspiration. Thank you all for sharing your stories. It helps so much.
Why are you still having exchanges with hi,m? Here are the texting rules:
Texts that do not ask a direct question do not get a response. If he texts a direct question, take your time. No need to rush back to him with the answer. When you do answer it should be a short a possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers.
If he tries to start an R texting exchange you shut it down: "I'm not ready to discuss this yet and need some time to think about before I give you an answer."
Remember, the less communication and contact the bettter!!
Thanks for the reminder Steve. I have only had one conversation a day since he left. The first three were initiated by me and were about the kids/house and were "to the point". The last one was initiated by him and I guess I probably let it go for too long because it was unexpected and it seemed to me that he was trying to please me by getting some things done that I previously would have had to "nag" him about. I did not answer immediately which is very strange for me because I answer all of my texts immediately if I am free and he knows that. With him I have honestly been delaying my responses and they have been as short as I can possibly make them... also, very unlike me. It is a work in progress and I, for one, have never been afraid of work. Like I said previously... doing the right, and usually the hardest, thing has always been my MO... something both of my parents instilled in me from an early age. "Nothing worth having comes easy." So... as painful as this is right now, I know that I will, in my own way, come to embrace the pain and the discomfort because I know that it is a sign that real change is coming... and I know it will be a good change regardless of whether or not my H and I remain together.
This is only day six of him having "moved out" [although he has yet to come and get any more of his things] but it feels like an eternity to me. There are so many times I just want to pick up my phone during the day and text him random thoughts and observations which is our habit as we have similar senses of humour and both of us work with teenagers (he is a teacher and I am a counsellor) but I don't... and he doesn't. I hope this is as much of a "disturbance" to his pattern as it is to mine but I know that I can't worry about that as this is really the time I need to focus on me and let him go to walk whatever path he needs to take. I have known for a long time that my H has "issues" - even before this WAS behaviour - and that likely there would need to be some sort of therapy or soul searching in his future. I just did not think that he would need to leave me and our life together in order to do it. But he has... and he does... so I am working on letting him go with love and facing my own fears head on.
I have read and re-read a lot of advice on here and I so appreciate other peoples' stories and hearing about LBSs who have gotten through this experience and the lessons they have learned along the way. I am also exceedingly grateful to the people who, even though they have moved past this stage of their lives, still check in to pass on their advice and wisdom that can only come from having walked the walk and talked the talk. A million thanks... it is helping me immensely and I feel like I am miles ahead of where I would be right now if I had not found this BB.
Tonight is my daughter's TKD belt test and both me and my H will be there. A great opportunity for me to take a step forward towards my ultimate goal of detachment. If anyone has some last minute advice, I'd appreciate it. I will be sure to report back tonight on how it goes.
I am so sorry for DejaVu. You are in a trough right now, but things don't stay there. They do get better.
Keep reading the other situations, it may help. You are older and wiser than me, so it seems like you know this life event is going to change you. Do everything to make it a positive change.
Thank you Ovrrnbw. Tonight was way tougher than I had imagined it would be. I had pictured my daughter and I going to TKD and him being there waiting for us. I had my exit planned. Of course... what is they say about the best laid plans? My H showed up at the house an hour before the test. Just breezed in with a smile on his face like he doesn’t have a care in the world and then launched into a 30 minutes worth of saved up news from the week of us not talking except for “business”. It was so normal I got sucked right in and listened to him talk about his week and his work frustrations, etc. I couldn’t help myself. I’m sure I just looked so happy to see him because, the truth is, I was. It was so good to see his face and hear his voice and for that half hour, I just forgot that everything is so crazy. When it was time to go, he suggested we drive to TKD together and I just went along with it. We ran into our neighbour and chatted with him like everything is normal. Then he sat with me while we watched our daughter and both of us just beamed with pride and I found myself looking into his eyes and sharing that with him... the way we always did before an alien invaded his body.
Afterwards, driving back home, I prepared myself for him to get out of my car and into his as soon as we returned but then he didn’t. He came into the house to help our daughter tie on her new belt. I told her I was going to take her and her brother (who we had to pick up) for celebratory sundae and then i did it... set myself back... I opened up my mouth and I heard myself ask him if he wanted to join us. He looked uncomfortable, for the first time, and paused like he was thinking about it and then said, “no, I don’t think I will” and looked at me apologetically. I tried to recover with a nonchalant “ok” but it was too late... I have the world’s most expressive face and even with my smile, I’m sure he could see disappointment in my eyes. So then he went to hug our daughter good-bye and i quickly went into the kitchen to busy myself with dishes and put some space between us but then he came over to where I was and, for a second, it looked like he might try to hug me as that would be his instinct but he stopped himself and walked past me and said something inane about how he misses his friends and colleagues he left behind in our old community. I just stood there... frankly I don’t care... you miss your work friends but you just walk out on your wife and it’s no big deal!! Get the hell out of my house you a**hole!!!! Okay... so I didn’t say that... but I wanted to. Anyway... he left shortly after telling me he would text me tomorrow to let me know when he would be around to take care of the trees we need removed from the front yard. And off he went... I almost texted him to tell him not to bother with the trees... that I would figure something out but honestly, it’s about time he did something around here. At this point, as much as part of me wants to see him, I think it will be better if I just go somewhere while he is there working. I need some distance.
So... two steps forward and one step back. I know that GAL and working on my PMA is the way to go. I know it is. I am working really hard to let him go. I have to work on the cordial but not too friendly. He just [censored] me in and I don’t want to be angry with him when he is around. But I also don’t want to give him the impression that I am just A-OK with this arrangement either. I feel like I’ve just made things sooo easy for him and he’s always had this delusion that divorce is a great idea if one person isn’t happy and the kids will just be fine. I know that my kids will be as good as they an be because I’m a damn good mom and I will make sure they are. But... I also know that they would be much better if they had both their parents together full-time. My mindset about marriage and kids is that you give it 110% and try EVERYTHING you can to make it work unless there is abuse involved. And we haven’t done that. This whole time I have thought his behaviour was due to chronic pain and medical issues so I’ve been enduring this absentee husband thinking we could work on our relationship once he was better only to find out he has CHOSEN to be away from me and our children day in and day out fort the better part of three years!!!. The eight month break in between is a bit confusing but my H says that he thought it would be a fresh start and he would TRY to be happy. If you had seen him, you would have thought he was doing a great job of it because he seemed very happy. But...looking back on it... there was still a bit of a distance between us.. like a wall between us that I couldn’t get through. We got along great but it was like there was just an inner layer to him that I could no longer access and really, when I think about it, have not been able to access since about a year after our kids were born.
Anyway... an hour ago i felt like i was spinning but writing this has really helped me to put things into perspective. I feel like i can breathe again. Thank you all for being here. It helps a lot to know that i am not alone. Bless.
DejaVu6 if the WAS wants to talk I think that's great. Just listen and validate, let them do like 80% of the talking. Ask questions but try not to carry the conversation. Maybe only carry it if they start asking you a lot of questions, but keep it polite and on the surface, don't go deep or talk about R. Also, I feel it's ok and in the DB toolbox to invite the WAS to do family GAL as long as there are no expectations and you carry on with the activity after they say no. I am referring to the kids and taking them get a treat.
I really think you have a level head and I like your perspective. Maybe it's who you are and/or byproduct of your therapist training. Our sitch are different, but I will definitely be following your sitch.
Good luck and I will say a prayer for you.
Thank you Twofeet. I really appreciate your encouragement and advice. I was beating myself up for issuing that invitation. I think mostly because I fell into the trap of thinking that he was enjoying his time with me and that he might be open to coming along with us. I knew he would probably say no and I was mad at myself for daring to hope he would come - as much for my sake as for our kids who have not had much time with him this past week. Today he is coming over to work in the yard. I would love to think it is because he feels some attachment and responsibility for “our” home but I think, more likely, it is guilt. It’s funny... I read about Kech’s sitch and how angry her husband is. Is it strange that I wish my husband would be angry? I guess because anger is a really intense emotion and implies that underneath it all, he still cares about his wife? My husband hasn’t been angry for a long time - irritation is the closest he gets but for the most part, he is just checked out...numb...detached. That feels worse to me than anger. Two weeks ago he was intensely ashamed and scared so I thought there was hope. But I think he has used the last two weeks to runaway from those feelings and to convince himself he is doing the right thing to walk away and that all of us will be better off in the long run.
I think I have always been an introspective, level-headed person so TLR fits with my personality. It is very hard though. I have four years of loneliness and sadness built up inside of me and given the revelations of the past few weeks, those feelings, when I allow myself to feel them, also have a lot of anger attached. My H has gotten off very easy in that respect because the love for my children is greater than the anger I have at their dad. To let all that out would be jeopardizing their relationship with him and I can’t have that. Honestly...what really floors me about this is that, despite everything he has done and continues to do, I still want him back. What is wrong with me? Why am I not the person running away?
Don't think about what he is thinking it's a cheeseless tunnel. My wife is a rollercoaster and I sometimes have a hard time staying off that ride. When I get invested in the what's and the why's I just end up emotionally 2 steps back. If he feels guilty then good, he should feel guilty, he did this not you. His guilt is not your problem.
My W has gone through phases of depression through our marriage. She says she has high functioning depression and tries to use change to elevate her mood. I feel like it's grass is greener syndrome. There have been plenty of signs this year of this happening and unfortunately my inadequacy truly recognize this, to address this, or help her address this feels like she is turning this on me and our marriage. This is the next big change to get her out of slump, make her feel alive, seeking something better to make her happy. I could be wrong, but after doing some self reflection this is the narrative that makes the most sense.
My point is you need to make yourself a satisfied happy person. You can't make your H happy only he can do that. If he stays miserable forever then it won't matter because you will improve. DB will help you move on with or without. We don't want our WAS back we want the memories, the comfort, the security of our spouses back. We want the good times back, we want the reciprocated love back. Unfortnatley, I am realizing there is no going back only forward. Read the lighthouse story. Be the lighthouse.
So... did not see my H today because our boat flooded and he had to go deal with that instead of the trees... likely happening on Monday now. I am having some friends over for dinner tomorrow and he is picking up the kids at 10 and keeping them until around 8:00. That’s a long day for them. I hope he manages to pay some attention to them. Had a text from my stepdaughter, 18, who lives a couple hours away. She asked if she could come for a visit the first week of November. Of course, I said “yes”. I almost followed it up with a “you and I need to have a conversation first” but I thought better of it. Throughout our marriage, I have handled all communication with her mom because she and my H do not like each other very much and communications with her always caused my H so much stress that it was just easier if I did it. This was part of me “taking care” of him. Trust me... it was NOT easy. I hated talking to her almost as much as he did but I did it for him and ultimately, for my stepdaughter, who didn’t need to be witness to that level of animosity. Anyway... I digress... for the first time since we have been married, I decided to make him step up to the plate and take some responsibility. So... I texted H and advised him that his daughter would be coming for a visit the first week of November and that I expected him to talk to her about our situation before then. He texted back...”I will talk to her - thank you”. Thank you for what?? Anyway... that Angered me.... don’t know why... so I couldn’t help myself... I texted him back “I hope you can be more honest with her than you have been with me.” Radio silence.
Question: Even though my H has been an absentee husband for a very long time... he always managed to see our kids every day... he would just run away most nights before I got home. Since I asked him to leave, he has only seen our kids one night (last Monday) and our son for about an hour on Thursday and then went to our daughter’s belt test. Tomorrow he is taking them for the day but that is because I asked him, not because he asked me. So... my question is, should I be pushing for him to see them more? I was thinking about getting him to see them on Monday evenings (I play in a weekly league that night) and Wednesdays which could be my night to go out and GAL. And then maybe Saturday so they at least see him every other day? He hasn’t approached me for any kind of a schedule... is it pursuit if I push this?
My sister and I were talking about my H’s meltdown and 180 two weeks ago when he was offering to stay home for four months straight just to start to regain some of my trust... and his confessions of feeling so much shame that he doesn’t think he can come back from it, etc... She suggested that he might have, for a moment, actually gotten in touch with his true feelings but that he “doesn’t yet have the ego strength to manage those feelings so he just retreated into his protective shell.” Thoughts??
My H just left with our kids for the day. I told him I needed him to see the kids more. He was totally agreeable and even asked for a bit more time than what I suggested. We also had a brief conversation about the problem he is trying to fix on our boat. The whole time he is talking, I’m doing my best to listen and quell the emotions that are always close to the surface when I see him. I think I did a pretty good job. I also maintained eye contact with him...looking for signs of indecision or confusion but I didn’t see any. The truth is that he looks happy. How could he look that way in the face of such a mess... after 13 years...gone, like we were nothing...meant nothing. It absolutely breaks my heart to see him like that...looking so content without me. Detach...detach...detach...he is a master and he’s been doing it for four years now. Me, I have a long way to go... Oh, insult to injury, he says... on his way out the door... “You look good.” F^&* YOU!!! Sorry... you haven’t complimented me in years... don’t do me any favours now. Anyway...my wonderful sister is here and we are soon to be joined by an equally wonderful friend so we can cook dinner for their husbands. Preparing myself to be the fifth wheel in my own home.
Just to clarify...the angry response to him complimenting me was in my head.
Happy Canadian Thanksgiving. I would rather be the 5th will in my own home sharing a holiday with others, than having it alone.
I read your switch and it is so close to my own that it is scary.
After breakdown there was 6 weeks or so where he made me feel terrible. He was never home (he works away a lot ask could get away with it) and when he was home he was either ignoring me or criticizing me. Eventually i put the idea of moving out into his head. So, I totally get your feeling that by asking him to leave you escalated it. But your H would have got there eventually on his own.
The two things that hurt the most in the early days was him suddenly taking a huge interest in the children and him acting like we were friends and that everything was fine, better even. like it was perfectly normal to send me pictures of the three of them trying on facemasks (the first night he had them over). He said a week after moving out "I dont know what I want but I like my space" (punch in the stomach). That was a week in, all smiles on his side, heartache on mine. And he has kept this smiley, everything is better now attitude ever since, now 7 months. Other than when I challenge his plans or assert some control. This is normally met with anger and accusations. What I am trying to say is that your H is in all likelihood pretending that everything is fine. He has to, because otherwise he has caused all this pain to you, to your children and to himself, for nothing. It has to be better to validate the decision he made. He is appeasing his guilt. He has some, hidden under the fog of depression, anger and resentment.
Anyway, I will follow your switch. Hang in there. His smiles arnt to hurt you, they are there to make him feel better.
Okay... I need help. DBing just went right out the window. My kids came back from a day with their dad and started talking about having Thanksgiving dinner with this family. Long story short... this is the person my husband said is living upstairs with her two kids but is on medical leave and was in the hospital with pancreatic cancer. Well... apparently she is alive and well... still in the home [he had told me she moved out last week]... and well enough to be cooking dinner. OMG... are you kidding me?!?! Steve... you were dead right. I couldn’t help myself... I texted him that I didn’t want our kids around his girlfriend and how dare he, they are confused enough. Then.... I called him because I was so angry... told him I knew. He said “okay”... he would just not admit it so I yelled at him to just own up to it... he then replied “we’ll talk about it tomorrow” and I called him a piece of S#*t and hung up on him. Later on I texted him that he better be here first thing in the morning or I was coming over there to have a conversation with his girlfriend. He immediately replies... “I’ll be there at 9.” I then texted back that even if he does come here at 9, I am still going to have a conversation with his gf so if he has been lying his a** off to her, he better come clean quick. Not really sure i will do that but I really just wanted to scare him. He texted back, “I understand... I will be there at 9.” Of course, when I figured this out, I had a house full of people so I went and hid at my mother-in-law’s. If he thinks he is going to bring this woman home to meet his mom and have his gf’s kids call her grandma, he is sadly mistaken. She is almost as mad as I am. He’s been lying to her and she has been helping me with the kids whenever he is away which is A LOT.
I am so confused right now. And angry!!! What am I supposed to do when he gets here tomorrow?? I mean... there is a part of me that is not surprised but he was literally texting me two weeks ago about coming home and wanting to make things work. And a week before that crying on my shoulder telling me he used to be a good person and that he doesn’t deserve me. He’s not wrong about that. What is wrong with him? Did he really think my kids wouldn’t tell me where they were and I wouldn’t put two and two together? Okay... out of control now. I just texted him to ask him if his girlfriend might be interested in seeing that text messages he was sending me two weeks ago and that I think she will definitely enjoy reading those. HELP!!! Anyone out there. What do I do tomorrow? What do I say???
I am so sorry. I completely get the confusion and anger you feel - I just shred 15 years of photos after i found out.
My advice, and you can take or leave it, is to not see him when you're angry. Take a day or two to calm down and get your head straight so that when you do face him it is with dignity and grace. Be the better person. Easy, and you've read my sitch so u know that I am better at giving advice than taking it. Dont make the same i did.
In response to why they keep switching personalities - it is because they live in a fog. Their heads are scattered. Sometimes they feel guilty (and resent you for it), sometimes they want to pretend all is well, and sometimes they want to come home, so they say nice things to test the waters. My favourite saying here is believe nothing they say and half of what they do.
Know what you want and stand firm with as much dignity and grace as you can muster.
Thank you FlySolo. I have calmed down quite a bit In an hour. I think I was mad but not surprised as i have been anticipating his day would come. It is just so unbelievable to me. One week ago today, he was supposed to be moving back home and was talking about just being away a couple more weeks when I told him to go and to only come back when he wanted to be here. And after processing for the last hour, I don’t know what I want. I thought I knew this man. I thought he was my forever person. Why do I want him in my life? Do I want him in my life? Divorce, single parenting... these are things I never, ever thought I would face. I am in my room looking around and he is still here. His clothes are here. HIs dirty laundry is still in his hamper. His life is here... our life is here. How could it end this way? The thing with my H is that I really don’t think he is the kind of person who will come back. He almost did two weeks ago but I think it was too much for him to face and he has made a career out of avoiding difficult feelings. He is also too weak to go it on his own which is why he has found this OW. I don’t want to fight with him. I don’t. I just feel so sad for our kids and strangely enough, for him. That he is so broken. And he is so good at hiding it. And this OW... the part that really bothers me is that she has two kids (14 & 16) and my H has been spending more time with them than he has with our kids. The worst part is... they are students at the school he teaches at. How brutal is that? What is he thinking?? Sigh...I just cannot understand how anyone could do this to the people who love him the most. It is beyond comprehension... something I am just not capable of doing myself. Probably why I am so trusting and he has fooled me for so long. I have no idea how tomorrow is going to go. My sister was here when I figured this out and I could see the look on her face... she thinks I should just kick him to the curb and not look back. She is probably right but she doesn’t have kids. Don’t know what tomorrow is going to be like. I’m not sure what to say. Mostly I will try to listen and not get angry.
It is 1;00 a.m. and my H will be here in 8 hours to “talk”. I am really struggling to come to terms with all of this and get some sleep. All of the lies he told me just keep siwirling around in my head. The betrayal, the selfishness,.. almost too much to comprehend. Who is this person that I pledged my life to? Who i had children with and planned to grow old with. Who said he loved me more than he has ever loved anyone? Where did he go and who is this poor excuse of a human being in his place? My poor beautiful innocent daughter... when I offered her pumpkin pie, innocently told me she had already had one at her dad’s friend’s place and then proceeded to tell me who that was. She didn’t know that she was confirming what I had suspected all along. “At daddy’s place?” I asked her. She looks confused and says, “Doesn’t Daddy live here?” Our eyes meet and I know that she knows. She doesn’t quite know exactly what she knows... her ten year-old mind can’t quite put two and two together... but she knows... Gawd I wanted to shoot him in that moment. “Are you okay, Mommy?” “I’m fine,” I say with a smile. “Are you sure?’ “Yes, I am sure.” The truth is, I”m not fine... but I know I will be...one day. Once I am through this pain and living life for me and for them. My H? I really don’t know anymore. When I was just considering this as a possibility, I imagined that I could come to terms with it somehow, GAL and wait patiently for him to return... maybe. But who is it that would be returning if he did come home? And can I truly move on AND stay hopeful? If I do stay hopeful... am I really going to be able to move on? I don’t know how I’m going to do this. And if my future H could talk to me now, would he tell me to hang on and to be patient? Or would he tell me to run far and run fast? That is certainly what my siblings are going to want me to do. They could understand him running away and wanting to be on his own... but an affair? That’s a deal breaker in their books and to tell you the truth, if I were in their shoes, I would feel the same way. But it is just not that black and white when there are kids involved. I am not just fighting for me, but for them too. Really needing some thoughts and advice from the vets who have been there, done that. Anyone out there who has been in my shoes and reconnected with their WAS?
Reading the words you write is like seeing my own thoughts put down on paper. I will try and give you the advise that on my good days i am able to put into practice.
Pack his things and ask him to take them. If he doesnt, then put them somewhere you cant see them. Any photos you have of him in frames with the kids put in the childrens room so they know that he is still a part of their lives. It hurts like hell as he has been such an absent father but he will miss them before he starts to miss you, and you will know that youve done the right thing by not playing the kids against him. He will try to put that on you too - dont give him ammunition.
Like you I dont think my H is the type of person to come back. He is proud and generally unwilling to say when he has made a mistake. Right now he is doing everything he can to prove he did not make a mistake. So, it will be hard for him to admit, when the fog lifts, that he wants to come home. I try not to think about whether that day ever happens and what I will do if it does. I try and live each day as fully as i can. I try and find beauty and pleasure in things. I try and be present. I try not to think about him. I try and not do anything i would be ashamed of or regret.
This will effect the kids. Maybe not the OW part specifically but everything. They will sense your anxiety, your fear, your anger. When it rises, leave the room. Take five minutes to breath. Get a mantra (mine are "dignity and grace" and "accept things as they are") and repeat it to yourself. I bought a crystal necklace with an unconditional love healing stone. I dont know id I put much stock in it but I touch it when the anger or the doubt rises. It is not just unconditional love for him, but also learning unconditional love for myself- be kinder to myself, accept my faults, and love myself anyway. It calms me down and reminds me that even if i lose him, I will have found me. The kids will be better for having a mother who is less anxious. you will show them that you are ok which will help them be ok.
And lastly, he will continue to jeckle and hyde on you. Be strong. Only you know how much you can take. Listen to friends but only take the advise that feels right to you. One day he may want to come back. One day you may not want him back. In either case, youre doing what you need to to heal and you can say hand on heart that you did everything to protect your children.
Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you FS. Thank-you for taking the time to respond to my pleas for help. And thank-you for such a thoughtful and heartfelt response. I will read it over and over again and borrrow your mantra, if I may. Another thing I’ve been doing a lot lately is listening to certain songs every day (sometimes multiple times) to get me in the right mindset. Sara Evans’ Stronger and Kelly Clarkson’s Breakaway and Since You’ve Been Gone are my three favourites.
My mind is still spinning as I try to make sense of that last seven months...all the times when I started to suspect something was up and so I would ask him...and he would always have an answer. Even when I discovered the place he was going, he had so many stories about why it wasn’t what it looked like. One night, about three weeks ago and a week post-discovery, I couldn’t sleep because my mind was nagging me about some things that didn’t add up. I wrote out everything...sent a few texts “damn you for keeping me up at night”, we need to talk, etc... He came home the next morning telling me that the night before he had been thinking about some things I had said (we were talking a lot prior to last Sunday) and that he had woken up feeling really good and then he saw my texts. I read him what I wrote word for word...all of the signs that I had noticed and facts that didn’t add up...that indicated to me he was having an affair. He just calmly smiled and said he would go over the entire list point by point with me...which he did...had an answer for everything...and then swore up and down “on our children’s lives” that he wasn’t having an affair. I have asked him to tell me...numerous times...he will just never, ever admit it. Even tonight when I texted him a bunch of angry texts that he is a miserable excuse for a human being and how disgusting it was that he would take our kids there and make them a party to his deceit...and when I called him to yell at him and to “own up to it” and called him a piece of s#*t...even then he did not admit it. Just said we will talk tomorrow. What is that about? It’s like he just can’t say the words.
So I am currently working really hard to put things into perspective (now 3:00 a.m.) and to understand that even though I KNOW about the OW now...nothing has changed. My H is gone...he is not coming back anytime soon. And truth be told, this is not the man that I married and my grief is not over the loss of him, this confused and broken man, but more over the loss of who I thought he was, the relationship I thought we had and what I thought would be a long and happy life together. All of these, it seems, have just been illusions created by my hopeful and trusting heart. Heart-on-her-sleeve girl (my mom used to call me that) has to go away for awhile and be replaced by someone a bit stronger, more realistic and more courageous. I’m not sure if that HOS girl will ever return... if she does, it will be a slow process, that is for sure. My trust will need to be earned.
So exceedingly grateful for this forum and for the wonderful, beautiful people who are here. I am pretty sure I would be a complete basket case if it were not for you. Much love to you all!
So it is almost 8 am... one hour until my H arrives to “talk” [see previous entries]. He will be on time no doubt. Any last minute advice before he gets here? I am feeling reasonably strong but have no idea what he is going to say and how it is going to affect me.
Good luck. Stay strong. X
Hi Dejavu, I just read through your stitch and can relate to so many of your feelings. Since I am struggling myself a lot, l don’t think I can give you a lot of advice. Be strong, be the person you can be proud of, think of your kids. I just wanted to let you know, I am thinking of you this morning. My husband just signed a lease for his own place. He will be moving out in 4 weeks. Some days I hate him, some days I love him and every day I struggle how to interact with him. Good luck to you.
Well... that did NOT go the way I thought it was going to go. My H arrived 30 minutes early. Said to me, “you have a few things wrong that we need to talk about so let’s talk.” The woman who lives upstairs is out of the hospital temporarily until she goes into the hospital in mid-October to have a golf-ball sized tumor removed along with 30% of her pancreas. He says that he has told her about my suspicions and that she is open to meeting me. Currently she is quite sick though (can’t eat, morphine) and the slightest bit of stress makes things worse so she wants to wait until after the surgery and then we can meet. The kids did move in with their grandma but hate living with her so had come home this past weekend to be with their mom. They are trying to get the deadbeat dad who has left home to step up but that’s not looking good right now. My H apologized, said he totally understood why I thought what I thought and it is his fault. I told him he should have called me or texted the story but he said he didn’t because he thought that A) I would not believe anything he had to say and B) It was so unlike me that he thought I might possibly be drunk. Yeah, I said, drunk with rage. He then looked me dead in the eye and said, “you have to understand... and I really want you to hear me... I am not out there trolling around looking for someone. That is the exact opposite place from where I am at. I feel like I am dead inside... and I need this time away to try to feel something again. He also said that it would be horribly unfair of him to go out and find someone who is “looking for love” and drag them into this. apologized for calling him names. He’s right... very unlike me. He said that I didn’t need to apologize as feels like a piece of s@&t most of the time anyway and probably deserves it. I asked him what he is going to tell his daughter and he said, he didn’t know. “Maybe that he is on a time out for bad behaviour.” He also told me that he is finally on some anti-depressants and is still going to counselling. So... we talked a bit more... some current event kind of stuff... and then he went back to his place to nap [he said he didn’t sleep last night... that makes two of us] and he will be back to take care of some things around the house. So... that is the latest instalment in the ongoing saga that is my life. I’m pretty sure he is telling me the truth about the family that he shares a place with so I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. I will definitely follow through with meeting her though. 1) Because I need to know for sure and 2) if she truly is just someone that lives upstairs and she is raising these two kids while struggling with this deadly disease (my dad died from the same cancer), I would like to offer my support. It sounds as if she doesn’t have much. My H got quite teary when he described her sitting with a plate of food at Thanksgiving (a dinner he said that just happened and was not planned) and bit being able to eat it because apparently the tiniest amount causes her pain. He says she has gone from 220 lbs to 140 lbs. The hospital sent her home with a bin full of morphine to manage the pain until surgery because she is a “responsible adult” but she apparently rarely takes it because she is worried about becoming addicted so she is in pain. Anyway... I guess not super relevant to my sitch but I do find myself wanting to reach out to her - I’ve lost both my parents to cancer. Maybe I can do that when she and I finally meet in person. Thanks Kiwi and FS for your support. I really, really appreciate it. ((((HUGS))))
Interesting afternoon. My H left shortly after out talk to go back to his place and take a nap as apparently he did not sleep last night. I spent a bit of time with our kids and then took off to my sister’s to drop something off. When I returned, my H was out in the front yard working on removing the trees. I asked him if he wanted some help and he said that would be nice. We worked on the trees together and afterward, he went into the garage and said he would inflate the tires on my car II had asked him about that last week). After that he went into our shed to pull out my winter tires as I had mentioned a few days ago that I should probably get my winter tires put on soon. Again...without asking. I expected him to leave after that but he came into the house to say hi to the kids. He sat wth them for awhile and then went into the kitchen to have a glass of water. He went to put it in the dishwasher but noticed the dishes were clean so he unloaded the dishwasher. I asked him if he was hungry and he said he was so I gave him some leftovers from last night and we split a drink. He then hung out with the kids a bit longer and then told me he was going to get going as he had a sore throat and was feeling really tired still. I said, “no problem”. He then hugged me (initiated by him... first time in a week) and thanked me for a “good day”. He said he was glad the day turned out that way because he did not like how things were this morning and what had happened the night before. I didn’t say much. Thanked him for his help and told him I hoped his sore throat got better. So... not the day I had expected to have after last night. Oh... my sister and I made plans for our “girl’s night”. We got some gift certificates for a local restaurant for our birthday so we are going to get dressed up and go out for dinner. Really looking forward to it.
I responded on my thread, but just wanted to reiterate here. Proceed with caution. In the same way that it says here that when attempting the 180, we need to show consistency, your spouse needs to show you that he is committed today, tomorrow, in a week, in a month etc. It's not that I don't believe in forgiveness, but having read so much now about their "journey", they are living in a fog and their actions depend on whatever it is they are feeling at that time. Before he moved out, my H, cried on my shoulder and told me he wanted to have more "babies" with me, like more children would fix things. The next day he went back to ignoring me again. Another time, he came into my room (I think of it as my room now) and said "we were worth saving and maybe we should go away somewhere, just the two of us". When I spoke to him about it a few days later, he said "it is too soon" and went back to ignoring me.
So, by all means leave the door slightly ajar. But don't open it fully until he proves he deserves your forgiveness.
Thank you FS. I will definitely keep that in mind. My H has texted me a couple times today. He seems overly concerned about my car. Texted me to ask if I wanted him to make an appointment to get my winter tires put on at the same time as him so he could bring the tires for me in his SUV. I could put the tires in my back seat but I said ok and thanked him. Normally it would be me that makes the appointments but I’m fine with him doing it. Part of my challenge...when he wants to step up to the plate, I have removed to let him without trying to micro manage the details. That is hard for me. I’m not controlling, just detail-oriented which is something my H is not. I think he experiences it as controlling though so I am stepping back from the responsibilities that he wants to take on. Feeling pretty good today. Got my hair done and I’m wearing my favourite jeans that haven’t fit me in years. Feeling strong and confident and looking forward to my girls night out tomorrow.
So the last couple of days have been really good. My mindset has totally shifted from where it was a week ago which is why I think I am in a good place right now. I’m not sure exactly when the shift occurred… maybe in my sleep…lol??? Anyway, I woke up Tuesday morning, for the first time thinking about me and what it is I want. I don’t know if you would call it an epiphany but it feels a bit like that is what it was. I think I just came to terms with the fact that all of the panic and grief I have been going through has been over the loss of a relationship and a life that I THOUGHT I had or WANTED to have and not what I ACTUALLY had. Up until this point, I had been working on my PMA, GAL, and doing 180s on some of my habitual ways of interacting with my H. But… in the back of my mind, I was still doing these things with the hope that it would bring him back...that there was a definite outcome I had in mind.
I had the day off on Tuesday and I went to get my hair done. Looking in the mirror for that long forced me to make an assessment of myself. The truth is, I’ve been feeling really good lately. The weight loss (started a while ago but has been escalated by the stress of all this), my PMA and my GAL activities have helped me to remember that I was a really strong and capable person when I met my H…much stronger and more capable than him, IMO. So it dawned on me that I had a good life before him and I can have a good life after him…if it comes to that. I started to really think about what it is I want in a relationship and what it is I deserve and the truth is, I haven’t done that in a long time. It's always been...what does H want? What does H need? So in that moment, I made up my mind… and I thought about it for the rest of that day and all day yesterday. I made up my mind that I’m not going to accept less than what I deserve anymore and I wanted him to know that. So…before I could lose my nerve and before I could have second thoughts, I texted my H on Tuesday night that I wanted to talk to him after work on Wednesday before I left for my girls’ night out. And this is what happened…
H showed up at our house while I was in the bathroom putting on makeup. He came right in and stood there looking at me expectantly… maybe a tad worried looking, not sure. I almost backed out because I knew I needed to leave in about 45 minutes to pick up my friend and I wasn't sure how long I would need to say what I needed to say. But… I could see that he was ready to talk and we hadn’t really talked in over a week so I took a deep breath and I talked…
I told him that some things had changed for me - that I was starting to feel good again and getting in touch with who I used to be and who it is I want to become. [He said… “I know. I’ve noticed.”… he said that about five times throughout our conversation.] I then told him, “I do not want you to come home.” I kinda left it for a few seconds for maximum impact and it worked cause I could see him flinch a bit and look confused. Kinda cruel of me but I really wanted him to feel it. Anyway… I qualified my statement by telling him that I absolutely want to be married and raise our kids with a partner and that I wanted that partner to be him BUT that I do not want my old marriage back. That marriage was and is unacceptable to me. I then listed my expectations of a partner… 100% there, a full-time dad to our kids, someone who will appreciate the best things in me and forgive the worst, someone who will TELL ME when he is upset so that we can talk and work things through, etc… I told him that I think he has it in him to be that person but he is clearly not there right now. I also told him that I feel like I don’t know him anymore and I don’t think he knows me… at least not this new and improved version of me. He agreed.
I said I had been thinking a lot about what needs to happen before he can come home. I told him that I don’t want him to move back and into the basement. When he comes back, it will be because he is 100% committed to staying...with me. In order for us to get there, a couple of things need to happen. First, as crazy as it sounds, I would like us to date. I said, "I want you to pick me up, take me out (dinner, or an activity), for us to have conversations that aren’t heavy, drop me off at my house and kiss me goodnight…or not… basically I just want us to go out, have some fun and try to remember what it is that brought us together in the first place… before we had our kids and all of life’s stressors descended upon us. Secondly, if/when we decide that a move home might be in the cards, I would like us to go to MC. And I would like to go to a pro-marriage counsellor… not some guy who’s been divorced a couple of times and secretly thinks that all women are controlling [which is the vibe I got from the guy we saw four year ago]." Anyway… that is the gist of what was said. There were a few tears [his] and I saw glimpses of the shame and regret my H has been living with. I fully believe now that there is no OW. He has maintained that from the start and has never gotten defensive when I have accused him… always willing to talk… has repeatedly said that that is not what this is about and he is just really lost right now.
At the end of our conversation which was incredibly calm, respectful and validating… he said, “OKAY”. Next week is looking like a really stressful week for him work-wise but he said that, after that, we will see about going out on a date. Do you know that the absolute best thing about that is??? If a couple of weeks go by and we don’t go out on that date, I am okay with it. There is no time frame on this. I am not in a rush. He understands and accepts my terms. I am just going to keep GAL and leave myself open to what is to come.
I also told him that the days I had allotted for him to spend time with our kids is the MINIMUM amount of time he needs to be here. I told him if he wants to come by on a weekday or on a Saturday and we are here, he is welcome. He looked relieved and thanked me. Said he had been trying to be respectful of my space and was happy that he could see them more.
Oh… and my H finally talked to his daughter. He told her that we were “on a break” and that he is “temporarily renting a place to sort myself [himself] out.” I feel good about him using the word “temporarily”. So that is the most recent chapter of the drama that is my life. I really wrestled with the idea of having a “talk” with him and possibly putting more pressure on him. But I actually think it did the opposite in that it enabled me to take back some of my power which is very freeing mentally. It also made it clear to him that I am okay on my own. In fact, I actually told him that I am grateful that all of this happened because, regardless, I think I am going to be a better person for it and I think he will be too. And I honestly really believe that which is why I find myself in a very unexpected place right now. NO FEAR and moving forward.
Much love to you all!!!
So glad to read your latest post. I hope you continue to enjoy yourself.
Thank you Kiwi. I have a couple of things organized for next week that I'm looking forward to and will help keep me on track so I am working hard. I am doing a lot of journaling and focusing on my PMA. As long as I stay present and future focused I'm okay. I still find the nights a bit tough sometimes even though I am really used to my H not being around at night. Sometimes my mind will drift into the past a bit and there is this anger that comes out of nowhere. Even though I am glad I am no longer living a lie and I am happier with myself than I have been in a long time.. still the anger is there. Not sure what I am supposed to do with it sometimes. Swallowing it doesn't seem all that healthy nor does using it to confront my H. I know he knows what he did was wrong. I know he has a lot of shame around it. I know that his shame is the greatest when he is in my company which is why he runs from me/it. I can't imagine what that is like... to lie to everyone who cares about you for so long. I don't pity him... he got himself into this mess... but there is a big part of me that still wants to take care of him. That is so crazy to me...lol.
I talked with him a couple days ago about what to tell his daughter who is 18. I have been her stepmom for 11 years and the parent she has always turned to when she is upset or needing help. Her dad she has always been wary of (they did not meet until she was 7 so she had some preconceived notions about him - long story) and her mom overreacts and makes everything about her. Since our family trip to Mexico in January, however, if I'm not able to pick up the phone, she calls her dad for support. I have worked so hard for the past decade paving the way for that and running interference, etc... It was very taxing on me emotionally... but it is finally paying off. Anyway... I know that if I told her the whole truth about what her dad has been doing and for how long, that would be a huge step backward in their relationship. It would serve him right... but she does not deserve that and they have such a positive relationship now. I could in no way justify telling her. So... we agreed that we would keep the info limited to what is happening now. He texted me yesterday that he had had a good conversation with her and that she was calling him again at the end of the day. I texted back that I was very pleased for both of them. And then, to my surprise, he texted me back "I owe it all to you." That's the closest I've ever gotten to an unsolicited thank-you. It felt good.
So... the story continues. I know there will still be lots of ups and downs and there will be days I don't feel quite as good as I did on Wednesday but I am committed and I keep reminding myself over and over that I am not missing anything or anyone that was REAL... just a fantasy really. When I keep that foremost in my brain, I do really well.
Hope everyone has a great weekend!!
Journaling... I saw my H today. He picks the kids up from school on Fridays and usually feeds them dinner. We had a brief talk. He has stopped going to his therapy group. I asked him “why” and he said the people there were just “too weird”. I don’t doubt that but still... disheartening because they are teaching skills there that he could use. But...he is still going to IC so at least that is something. We talked about some stuff at his work and just general newsy stuff. He caught be looking out the window at one point and asked me what I was thinking. Normally, I would have said “nothing’ but I answered honestly and said that I missed our friendship. He nodded and said the last few days of friendship have been nice. Of course, now I am thinking maybe I am being too friendly. Honestly it has not been hard as he has been very nice to me lately and when I have had to text him about the kids, he has responded right away which is very unlike him. Not reading anything into it though. Most of the time, I suspect it is just his guilt and that I don’t give him a whole lot to be mad at. Anyway... I am going to go as NC as possible the next little while... for my sake. I don’t really need him for a friend. I have lots of friends here. Next weekend is his birthday. He is going to have the kids that day. I am going out of town with my sister for a much-needed break.
Last night I resolved not to text my H on Saturday expecting that there would be NC. Then this morning, I got a text from him that was completely out of the blue. He texted me what he was doing that morning (huh?) and then asked me to let him know if the kids and I were going to be home that afternoon (double huh?). He closed with “enjoy the sun today
. I was jumping into the shower when the text arrived so I let it sit for awhile. While I was in the shower, he sent another text telling me that he was going to call his daughter today (something I always asked him to do). So...awhile later, I answered him that my son was going to be home with a friend and that I had a lot to do today so did not know what I or our daughter would be doing. I also let him know that his mom would be away on Tuesday and Wednesday so I would need help with the kids as I was supposed to be going out on Tuesday night. He responded right away that he has a job interview before he comes over but that “we will need to brainstorm” and “a solution will present itself”... followed by another smiley face. I just sent back a thumbs up. So... strange. Over that past few years, H has never freely texted me with his itinerary. If I asked where he was going, it was “errands” but he never volunteered information. I now know that any information, for him, was always going to be a lie to cover up a previous lie and so on, and so on. So I get why he was always so short on info.
Anyway... that is the latest instalment. I’m just going to keep on keeping on.
So...that was weird. My H texted me at 4:00 that he was done with his work and needed to clean up and would it be too problematic for him to drop by after. I told him it was up to him as the kids and I were just hanging out. He showed up about an hour later. Said “hi” to the kids and spent about five minutes with them. He then spent almost an hour “chatting” with me about various things including some horror movies on Netflix he thought I should watch. Huh? Not a chance. Anyway... as suddenly as he appeared, he said he needed to go to check on our boat. Hugged the kids “good-bye” and came back into the living room where I was and sat back down for a couple minutes. He then got up and said he would see me in the morning. I didn’t get up. So he did an awkward wave goodbye and off he went. I don’t have the slightest clue why he showed up. He hasn’t done that before. Typically he stays away with little to no contact.
Talking to him is so bizarre these days. It’s like we are having a conversation but neither of us are actually talking about what is really on our minds. So we have this awkward superficial exchange like two acquaintances would have. The good news is that, unlike a couple of weeks ago, his leaving didn’t hurt me or affect my mood. I’m just taking each day as it comes and not going to read too much into it.
Journaling...
H showed up this morning to take the kids out. Kids were about to eat their Sunday morning pancakes. When he came in, I was busy in the kitchen so I didn’t say hi right away. So he comes in and tries to catch my eye and says “Hi?” in the way that he does when he is wondering if something is wrong. I just gave him my best smile and offered him some pancakes which he accepted. We chatted for a bit and then he started to ask... “Do you want to...” and then stopped himself and asked if I had my posse today. My posse? “Yeah...are your friends coming over?” I knew he had almost asked me if I wanted to go with them and it was on the tip of my tongue to say “yes...lots of plans” but, like an idiot, I say, “No...no posse today.” “Oh,” he says obviously thinking better of asking me to go with them. It bugs me to help get them ready so he can take them out to do something fun, so I went off to my room and left him to it. He came in a bit later to tell me that he is stressing about his interview [for a promotion at work] on Tuesday and to ask me if I am okay. “I am great,” I said.
So... off he went with the kids yelling “Bye” as he walked out the door. He’s taking the kids to a corn maze. I hope there are a ton of families there... with moms and dads... I hope he looks around and even if only for a second, it dawns on him that he might miss me a bit or that it might have been more fun with both of us there. Of course, even if he does feel that, I’m sure he will stuff the feelings and continue to detach in his expert way. Sigh... good news though... him leaving that way brought up a flash of anger/sadness/frustration and then it was gone. Even a week ago, it would have ruined my whole day. Not today. It is a beautiful day out there. I’m going to get my chores done and get out there to enjoy it.
Hi Dejavu
You sound like you are in a good place. When H first moved out (6 months ago) it would break my heart watching him take the kids away for the day or over night. I would hold it together right until i closed the door, then I would collapse in a heap and cry. I have just said goodbye to them, and whilst it still hurts to watch them all go, a part of me looks forward to now having the house to myself.
Time is a great healer. The pain never truly goes away but I know my kids are safe and they are loved (by both of us) and that (and this is the one that takes the longest to learn), we, H, me and our girls, will be fine no matter what happens. It has taken me six months to get here, and the shock of discovering he is dating, to really get my [censored] into gear, but I am there. You sound like you are there already. Keep your chin up. He sounds like he has refocused on the kids and that can only be a good thing.
Enjoy your chores. Try and see the beauty in the mundane things.
((hugs))
Thank you for stopping by FS and for you words of encouragement. I’m a bit peeved at my H and resisting the urge to text him that he is a complete A-hole. Anyway... I was minding my own business quite proud of myself for getting a lot done in a short period of time when I get this text. He and the kids took the boat out to drop off a crab trap and “they” thought it would be nice if I went back out with them to pick it up. So... I thought about it... I thought about saying I was busy [should have gone with that] but truth is that it is such a beautiful day and I love being out on the water so I agreed. I meet them at the dock downtown and it was a nice boat ride. I sat with my daughter in the back so H and I didn’t really talk a whole lot. He just said “nice to see you” when I got there. Anyway... we get back to where we keep our boat so H needed to drive me to my car. My daughter then asks if they are still going to the corn maze as they hadn’t gone yet. “Yep,” he says. “Just have to drop mama off at her car.” LIke it was great to have her on the boat ride but now she needs to go home. F*%$ you!!!!!!
So he dropped me off with his stupid a** singsong “bye”. I just got out of the car, told the kids to have fun with their dad and left. I feel humiliated. Like he can just take me off the shelf and put me back on there whenever he wants. It would have been better if he hadn’t invited me at all. I was actually having a nice day until that. The worst part is that he probably has no idea what a rude, inconsiderate jerk he is. No idea. Just more food for thought on my end, I suppose. Is this really the kind of self-absorbed person I want to be with? Nope... not this person.
Am I overreacting here or was that as big of an a-hole move as I think it was? Okay... now I just got myself mad and sent him a text telling him he is an inconsiderate a-hole. Sometimes you can only take so much, you know?
So much for DBing. Took a bit of a step backward. I was not prepared for how I would feel when my H dropped me off at my car and left again with our kids for more “family time”. It really hit me out of the blue... I just felt this anger I hadn’t felt in a long time. So...I texted him in anger. He replied later on that he was truly sorry and he hadn’t intended to be inconsiderate and that he had felt “guilty” for being on the boat with the kids without me so he texted me to see if I wanted to join them. Guilty... ugh. So I texted him that I didn’t need his guilt and that I had wanted a husband who would take our kids to a corn maze for four years and that I hoped his renewed interest in them was not guilt. Double ugh.
Guilt. What an awful feeling. Not what I want my H to feel when he thinks about me. So... two steps forward and one step back. It was such a good weekend too. Ending that way really, really sucked. Hope other people on here have a better ending to their weekends. (((HUGS))) to you all.
Hey DV-
He and the kids took the boat out to drop off a crab trap and “they” thought it would be nice if I went back out with them to pick it up. So... I thought about it... I thought about saying I was busy [should have gone with that] but truth is that it is such a beautiful day and I love being out on the water so I agreed.
It was a beautiful day and you love being on the water, that sounds like great reasons to agree. But.... you should only do it if you can do it with zero expectations.
“Yep,” he says. “Just have to drop mama off at her car.” LIke it was great to have her on the boat ride but now she needs to go home. F*%$ you!!!!!!
But it sounds like you did have expectations. You've got to drop them, because every time you have them you are setting yourself up for disappointment! I think you got a little caught up in his sudden chattiness with you and hoped that it meant something. All it means is that he's trying to make sure you are still on as Plan B. Once that's established he's back to "business as usual".
I feel humiliated. Like he can just take me off the shelf and put me back on there whenever he wants.
I can certainly understand why he made you feel that way! Just take all those feelings and put them in a handy place so that you can remind yourself why not to lapse from DB'ing when he starts sending you more false signals.
It would have been better if he hadn’t invited me at all.
It would have been better had he asked and you said "no", because he needs to get that cold slap in the face that you are NOT Plan B.
now I just got myself mad and sent him a text telling him he is an inconsiderate a-hole.
Don't do that, you are just reaffirming to him that you are Plan B. Positive or negative attention, it's all the same to him- attention. You've got to work on getting to a place where you just see him as a minor annoyance rather than the person that has so much control over you that he can wreck your day by simply not inviting you somewhere.
Thank you for that much-needed 2x4 AS. You are totally right. This was all my doing. It was one of my first big tests and I epically failed.
I re-read his invitation again... it suggested we take the boat ride together and then he could drive me back to my car which is exactly what happened. I obviously went in with expectations I was not fully aware of... that he would invite me to continue on with their time together. So... I missed two opportunities. The first one was when he texted me and I could have said "no". It crossed my mind, believe me, but I know he had almost asked me to go with them before and this was the first of this kind of invite so I went against my better judgement and agreed to meet them. Opportunity number two was when he dropped me off, I could have thanked him for the invite and genuinely told my kids to have a great day with their dad and went happily off to have dinner with my sister [which was my plan in the first place - and I did manage to enjoy it despite all of this]. But no... I reacted... and then took my giant step backward. That sucked because the weekend had gone so well. My H and I did end up having a bit more communication. He apologized...said there were no ill intentions and that he "had been reaching out" (whatever that means) and I apologized for overreacting when I knew that he had not intended to hurt me. He later on sent me a text thanking me and told me to sleep well.
So back to DBing this week. I have plans tonight and tomorrow night with friends so H will be with the kids at our house... gone before I return which is good. Wednesday we have a parent-teacher interview that will hopefully go okay although I know my son has said things to her about our sitch so hoping that doesn't come up. Thursday is my day with the twins but H may want to see them as he is going away to his annual writers' conference Friday and Saturday. Sunday is my overnight trip with my sister. H will be with the kids and I will be gone before he arrives so we won't be seeing each other or communicating much at all this weekend. Typically when he goes to this conference, he will send me periodic texts about how it is going but I know that won't happen this time and I am okay with it. I need the break.
Anyway... this is definitely a "down" in the ups and downs I predicted. I still feel like I am in a pretty good place despite my slip up. Yesterday really did catch me by surprise and was a valuable learning experience. The stupid part is that I knew at the time that I was making all the wrong choice((s)... I just got caught up in my hurt feelings and let my heart overrule my head. I will be sure to remember this the next time something like this comes up.
So....just checking in. My H has been super friendly for the past two days. Yesterday, it was his evening with the kids and he came and got them early...before I was home from work... with plans to do something fun. He texted me to have a quiet evening and some "alone time" assuming that I would be happy they weren't home. I thanked him but set a boundary and told him, in the future, to check with me first before he just takes them somewhere. I told him he seems to assume that I see our kids as a burden that he needs to relieve me of. I told him that I don't see them that way and that the three of us spent a lot of time together when he was "away". I told him that have had more than my share of alone time and that I am happy that he wants to see them more now but that doesn't mean I want to see them less. His reply text was "got it" but then later on, texted me to apologize and said that he had forgotten I am home after work on Mondays before I go out to my league (at 6:45).
So...today... I know he is stressing about an upcoming job interview. I tried to go NC but gave in at the last moment to tell him good luck. He immediately texted back "thanks". He then texted a bit later to ask if I knew when I would be home tonight [he is watching the kids... I told him I am going out to a "social" that I was invited to.]. Followed by... "no rush...just curious." I replied that I didn't know but maybe around 9:00. He told me to enjoy. Now this seems rather benign but... my H has never been curious about what I'm doing. Made me smile to think that maybe, just maybe, it is bugging him a little bit. Anyway... off to my social.
Don't beat yourself up too much. It is hard to strike that balance between being pleasant and being detached. Sometimes pleasant can lead to friendly, which turns into your having expectations and sometimes being detached can be read, by them as being cold. We are both new to this. And like you, I have young kids and it helps them if mummy and daddy are getting along ... in any case this is what I say to myself when I accept invites to join them on their days out with daddy.
I think he was telling the truth when he said he didnt mean to hurt you. He was reaching out to keep things normal for the kids, and to offer you a little kindness. I dont think either of our Hs are bad people, they are confused and alone and still attached to the "family", even if in their heads, they are no longer attached to us. Their kindnesses are self serving - it helps them not feel guilty. As long as I keep that im the back of my mind when I politely say "thank you for the lift" or "would you like a coffee" (when he visits the girls and makes obvious he wants to stay), then I have no expectations of it being anything more.
What does this mean? Well, we carry on on our path to make ourselves better people. I still aspire to become that person who holds her head high and travels with grace and dignity. I fail frequently
Thank you FS. I know you are right... It is kindness that comes from wanting to feel less guilty. Wish I had thought that way on Sunday when the invitation came. When I think of it from that perspective, it seems like it will be much easier to say "Thanks by I'm busy" when the next invitation comes. I definitely don't need any pity dates. I have lots of people in my life who enjoy my company.
I had a fantastic evening out with my sister and friend. It was good to be our enjoying their company. I returned home at 9:00 and my H was already gone. My MIL told me that he was super stressed out about his interview and was "useless" last night so she sent him "home" at around 8:00. "Home"... that stung a bit. "You mean the place where he is hiding out and avoiding life." "Yeah, there," she says. Anyway, I wanted to reach out to him and comfort him the way I would if we were living together still but I resisted the urge. I knew that he was probably wanting to talk to me about it but I just wanted to enjoy the rest of my evening and not think about him and his troubles so that's what I did. This morning I sent him a reminder text about a couple of appointments we have today. He immediately replied and added that he was on pins and needles about the results of the interview from yesterday and that he would update me later once he had some free time at work. I didn't ask about it but I knew he would mention it because I am the first person he always wants to talk to about these kinds of things.Just further highlights the stupidity of this whole sitch. [eye-roll]
Thanks again for visiting my thread and for being so encouraging. I feel like you and I are in very similar situations so it helps to have your perspective and also to hear that I'm not the only one who deviates from that path at times. I guess the important thing is that we get right back on it as soon as possible. (((HUGS)))
He texted me to have a quiet evening and some "alone time" assuming that I would be happy they weren't home.
H sent me a similar text 7 days after his mum took the kids away on holiday.
"Hope you're enjoying the peace and quiet. Do you know where X is?".
Bearing in mind this was the first time the kids had been away without me, I'd not heard from him since be had taken the kids to the airport a week before, and that 3 days before the text was our wedding anniversary, all i could think was the [censored] gall of this man. Insensitivity doesnt even half describe the way they behave sometimes.
i ignored the first part of his text and only responded to the question.
PS - you are not his mum. Dont feel guilty. It is no longer your job to be his cheerleader. If he brings up how anxious he is about work, interviews etc. the vets would say (I think) it is ok to validate but dont text, call, wish him luck, whatever. Remember, he abandoned you, not the other way around.
Ugh... just got back from parent-teacher interview. I felt surprisingly uncomfortable the whole time. Actually...borderline loathing to be around my H. He was so pleasant... self-satisfied with getting his promotion at work. Good thing they don’t know how messed up he really is. Left right away afterward with this annoying sing-songs “bye” ringing in my ears. Having a mad moment. I’ve been so good lately but today I just felt like punching him from the second I saw him. I made myself feel a bit better when I got home by shoving all of his clothes into a corner of our closet and spreading all of mine out onto his side. It feels good... and yet another step closer to separation. I so so hate this. I just keep reminding myself that I have really lost nothing that is real in all of this...except for four years of my life which is how long my H has been “away”. This really, really [censored]... the ups and downs of this process. Some days I feel really strong and forward-moving and other days... that sick feeling, the anger... the disappointment... it comes in waves. No way to get over the pain except to go through it. No truer words were ever said. (((HUGS))) to all.
Hi DejaVu6
The fact that the 'sick feeling, the anger..the disappointment' are transient feelings :- doesn't that mean that they are actually strong days too? Just for the fact that you recognise them, feel them and let them move on. It shows great strength IMO and you are human, not a robot. (I told my staff I was having a grumpy day on Tuesday and just to let me work through it, but reassured it wasn't because of them)
You come across as a lady full of energy, compassion and intelligence but remember that it is a marathon. I know what you mean about being forward - moving or perhaps forward - thinking, but you are allowed to stand still sometimes and just be. If that means the feelings come back then you have proven that they will pass. I'd put money on them becoming less frequent. if they didn't happen then I'm sure you'd be storing up a whole load of future issues.
I know you know all this, because you are a very wise lady and encourage other people, myself included.
I know you have been suffering under his MLC for a long time now and have a lot of expert knowledge. Have you been on the heartsblessings website? I like the calm way that the lady writes and was very insightful and validating for me. Drop by, if you haven't already. I also have the headspace app on my phone which teaches simple meditation. I use it for stressful times whether they be marital or work related.
Keep going. You can see through his actions, but he probably can't. His behaviour doesn't reflect on you because we can all see what a fine person you are.
Why wouldn't his behaviour make you angry? He's being an idiot.
I second Yorkie. Your words of encouragement has helped get me through some pretty low days and I am very thankful that you are here.
Your writing is full of intelligence, kindness and warmth. Your H is an idiot.
Slight correction - I am thankful for your words of encouragement.
I am sorry that you find yourself here.
Stay strong. Know that your kind words have helped others on their journey.
Thank you so much Yorkie and FS...from the bottom of my heart. Last night was tough but I managed to get a good night’s sleep and feeling much better this morning. Your kind words and encouragement were exactly what I needed to set me off on a good day. I appreciate you taking the time to write. I think your H’s are idiots too...and am pretty sure they will eventually come to the same conclusion. I know my H has had moments of clarity in the respect...but he runs from pain and facing his actions of the last four years is just too hard for him. Easier to walk away from his life and start over than to come to terms with his poor decisions and his dishonest and dishonourable way of being.
My H was here this morning to pick up my daughter for her tutoring. Normally, I go out to say hi but just couldn’t bring myself to do it this morning. Yesterday was too difficult and I knew that this morning I would get that feeling again if I saw him. So I stayed in my bathroom getting ready for the day listening to my music. Ironically, the song “Stronger” by Kelly Clarkson came on right about the time he would have been sitting in our living room...lol. How fitting. Made sure I was singing along at the top of my lungs. Small happy moments... :-D
Today promises to be a busy day so not much time to think. Tomorrow my H heads off to an annual conference that he goes to every year. The kids don’t have any school tomorrow so he will be hanging out at our house with them in the morning before he leaves. I hope he wanders into our room and sees the closet...lol. Sunday is his birthday and I’m leaving town for an overnight getaway with my sister. I am soooo looking forward to that. I hope the two of you have made some weekend plans for yourselves. You deserve to have some fun!!!
Again... thank you so much for taking the time to write to me. Your words brought me to tears and helped to further my resolve to stay the course. Much love to you both!
My H stopped by tonight. We had a glass of wine and he talked about his week which apparently has been very stressful. Not sure how it came up but he told me that he sensed I was upset with him at the parent-teacher meeting and he was sad all day about it apparently. Probably shouldn’t have but I told him straight out that I had been overcome with the urge to punch him the entire time. He told me to let him know next time and I could just punch him cause he probably deserves it anyway. He’s not wrong. Anyway...we talked a bit about the “rules” of this new arrangement. We didn’t really come up with anything other than we are going to make some time to talk to each other once in awhile. He says he likes talking to me and always has. He just doesn’t like talking to me if he thinks I’m mad at him... he hates conflict...I said that is what got us into this mess and he agreed that it likely was. It feels like tonight was a step forward but also a step backward...not sure. Guess time will tell.
...we talked a bit about the “rules” of this new arrangement. We didn’t really come up with anything other than we are going to make some time to talk to each other once in awhile. He says he likes talking to me and always has. He just doesn’t like talking to me if he thinks I’m mad at him... he hates conflict...I said that is what got us into this mess and he agreed that it likely was. It feels like tonight was a step forward but also a step backward...not sure. Guess time will tell.
Your H sounds like he does't know what he wants. But, at least you can have honest(ish) conversations with him. Mine hides his head in the sand and pretends everything is fine. Just two people sitting across from one another discussing the weather. Yours sounds a little more mature in that he can have a conversation, accept responsibility and say sorry. Mine lacks the introspection to do that.
It is not one step forward one step back. It is definitely forward. Not sure where too, but I think, you have the strength to be OK irrespective.
I made myself feel a bit better when I got home by shoving all of his clothes into a corner of our closet and spreading all of mine out onto his side. It feels good... and yet another step closer to separation. I so so hate this.
When we first moved into this house, I converted the small bedroom next to ours into a dressing room for me so H had a big walk-in closet to himself. When he moved out, he took everything in the closet. It took him 2 weeks to properly move out. I would walk around at night finding things that reminded me of him and put it in the closet, and when I got home from work, he would have taken it. We never spoke about where the thing had been taken, or why I took it down in the first place. It was like the closet was made of Narnian wood. But after a while, the closet became a physical reminder of his absence. So I filled it. I put all my winter coats and dinner dresses in there. I put my dirty clothes hamper in there. I even redecorated the MBR. It took me a long time to come to that decision - what if he thought I didn't want him back and I was moving on. Yes, it did feel like one step closer to the end. Yes, I hated it too. Yes, I still hate going in there. But it had to be done. I can always move my clothes back if he comes home. There was a cupboard in the kitchen which was his too (protein shakes, power bars etc). That is now full of children colouring pens and books.
Flysolo - how interesting that you just posted that. I am just at that point too. Have worried about how he will perceive me packing some of his stuff away, up until this week that is. I shall just fold it into bags and leave it somewhere out of sight. I have come to see it as him marking his territory. Well, i don't have stuff at his new 'home' so why should he get to leave his mark here. I don't feel as vindictive as it probably sounds but just showing that I am going to carry on regardless.
DejaVu 6 - step forward I think PROVIDED it doesn't leave you to have expectations. I got the same 'I like talking to you when you're being reasonable" talk and I nearly exploded (in secret) with the sheer bare - bottomed cheek of the man. So, if he wants to talk and you have nothing else on at the time, then practice your DB listening skills. I would steer away from R talks though and just see where he wants the conversation to go. Baby steps. He is telling you what he can't cope with and what will make him run for the hills, so take heed if you want to. But perhaps don't make yourself too easily available. He has to realise that you are not just there to be his emotional crutch when he needs one. The consequence of not being in the home and marriage full time is that you are not at his beck and call.
Thank you both. Expectations are funny. It is so easy to have them and not really realize it until you are in a situation reacting. Last night was interesting. My H was really emotional when he was talking about his stressful week which, honestly, was not that bad in the grand scheme of things. I’ve handled way worse. It occurred to me while talking to him just how poorly he handles stress... like he seems really fragile in some ways. I wonder if he has always been that way and I just didn’t notice or is this just indicative of how messed up his brain is right now? When he left last night, he gave me a hug and told me he was going to take the next couple of days to just de-stress and enjoy his conference. He told me to do the same with my sister. He asked where we were going but then added, before I could answer, “not that it’s any of my business.” I told him anyway. He had guessed correctly anyway since she and I have an overnight shopping/casino trip we used to take about twice a year. Haven’t gone for at least a year so I am really looking forward to it. My H is turning 45 on Sunday (really hate that he is 5.5 years younger than me). I thought about getting him something but decided that I would just help our daughter bake him his favourite cake.
So I did something a bit risky(?). Not sure. My H has maintained that his running away was basically running away from me and our relationship but not our kids. He said leaving them was the hardest part. I actually don’t believe him. I think he was running away from EVERYTHING that felt like pressure and responsibility. In actuality, even when he had the chance to spend more time with them (when I wasn’t around), he would still choose to leave. So... I proposed to him in an email that we switch places for a month. I suggested that he could move back in to our place, keep his rental, and that i would go and stay with my sister. I told him he could do all the daily things with the house and the kids (and I provided him with a LONG list) and I would see them on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays. I told him to think about it and we can talk about it next week sometime. It will be interesting to see how he responds. I know if he agrees, he will do a good job taking care of them but it might kill him...lol. Anyway... I’m not 100% sure I could be at my sister’s for that long (she only lives 5 minutes from me so it’s not like I would be a world away) but I’m kind of tired of him blaming me for his behaviour...
He asked where we were going but then added, before I could answer, “not that it’s any of my business.” I told him anyway.
Its funny when things like that happen. It's like they want to know what's going on with us, but they catch themselves because they know they have no right to ask. About two months ago we were having a BBQ for D12's birthday. H came over early to help set up ... or read the paper in the kitchen. At one point, H left to go to the supermarket. He was gone for about 2 hours. When he got back I asked him "did you get what you needed?". He looked at me, scowled, and said "Yes. And you don't need to ask !!!". Ever since then I don't ask him any questions. He still asks me though. He knows he shouldn't. But he does. Like you, I take the high road and give truthful (but vague) answers.
He said leaving them was the hardest part. I actually don’t believe him. I think he was running away from EVERYTHING that felt like pressure and responsibility. In actuality, even when he had the chance to spend more time with them (when I wasn’t around), he would still choose to leave.
I think your H is telling the truth. My H loves his kids. Of that I have no doubt. But when he was in the midst of it all he checked out on them as well. We would not see him for days. When D8 would try and cuddle him on the sofa, he'd push her off. He would get mad at D12 for any little thing. When they are in that "I need to run mode" even the children feel like pressure and responsibility. Once they've actually run they realise what they've done (well my H anyway), get scared that the children will hate them, and suddenly become super dad. As much as it [censored] for me, i try and look at it as a blessing.
re the risk. I guess the vet would say, as long as you did it for you and you did it with no expectations, then you cannot get hurt if he responds one way or the other. If he agrees, then enjoy the extra time with your sister. If he says no, then enjoy the time with your kids. Win win either way.
It'll be interesting to see what he replies. He may see it as you controlling him or putting pressure on. I suppose it depends on how you worded it as well. Did you make it appear that you were doing it for him or did you say ' I would like to do some things for myself and that means you swapping places with me in the house?'
Maybe a month was too long? I doubt he can think a month ahead. If he doesn't respond to your email, do not ask him about it as that may be seen as pressure and pursuit.
I only have adult children so cannot in anyway relate to what you guys have to contend with. When my H first left, I refused to let him take the dog to his 'love pad' and in fact really limited his access to her. Now I say, 'I'm away all day Saturday so the dog needs sorting out please' I give him plenty of warning, but it is for my benefit alone and to help me GAL.
I, in no way wish to imply that my dog situation means that I understand yours, or that it's comparable, and I don't really care whether he has a relationship with the dog going forward; but I do feel it's a step forward for me; It has reminded him that he has some responsibilities and enabled me to GAL.
Lots of food for thought. Thank you. As far as my expectations... I’m not really sure. I guess he might experience it as pressure. It may have not been wise on my part. I know he loves them but I also would like him to know the realities of being the person who is there 100% of the time instead of the person who visits. Honestly, I doubt that he will agree to it and I’m not going to make an issue of it. If anything, I’m hoping that he freaks out a little bit at the idea of taking it all on - maybe have a bit of insight that it isn’t all about me. I’ve been reading about MLC and having a hard time figuring out where my H is at in all of that. He’s been doing this for the better part of four years but I was only aware of it at the beginning and now. The in-between years he just hid everything from me. There are some things that don’t fit. He doesn’t appear to be overly angry at me. He’s clear that he loves me [although the guilt he feels when he sees me is stronger at this point] and values my friendship. He has some insight but retreats from it when it is too hard. He hasn’t done anything “wild” unless you count living his covert life of solitude. He is responsible with our money and consults with me ahead of time if he wants to buy anything that is over $100. As I am writing this, I’m thinking that I still need to work more on my DBing because I’m still concerned with what he is doing. Arghh... this is so hard.
I had lunch with a friend yesterday. Her H left her after ten years of marriage “for the girl who answered the phones” when her boys were two and three years old. She is a very strong person... forgiveness does not come easy to her. That has to be earned. She said when it all happened, she remembers how devastated she was. She says she made a list of all of the things she was so upset about... broken home, money issues, kids, etc... and then realized that nothing on her list was about HIM. She said when she realized that, she picked herself up, set some goals, forced herself to be social with people, took an improv class (which is where she first met the man she is married to now), and got a job. In short, she GAL, but I don’t think she ever considered trying to work things out with her ex. She is now a manager at a school board and her life is much better than her ex’s who is still with the woman he left her for. Her kids, who are now in college, tell her that their dad’s marriage is no picnic. Anyway... she told me all this but at the very end said that she can’t blame me for wanting to fight for my marriage and she has wondered, over the years, on occasion, whether or not she should have done the same thing [apparently her ex had “missed” her shortly after he left]. It was nice to talk to her and see living proof that there is life after divorce. In my heart of hearts, I do think my H and I can get through this but I also know that I have to come to terms with the possibility that I am wrong about that.
One sleep until my sister and I leave on our little getaway. I am so looking forward to it!!! Love to you both!
I know he loves them but I also would like him to know the realities of being the person who is there 100% of the time instead of the person who visits.
It is a difficult balance. Clearly he cannot continue to drop by and visit whenever it suits him and then go and hide at his place when it all gets too much. And he cannot expect you to carry the burden of the family 100% of the time. I suspect he will respond, it will take some time, because he will want to think his words through carefully, but he will respond.
Perhaps validate "I can see how you feel that way ..." and then state an alternative "I know that we are both committed to the children and want whats best for them. Having the kids full time doesn't work for me. How about we agree a schedule where you have them one night a week and every second weekend. I will stay at my sisters".
From what you describe, I think his MLC fog is slowly lifting. He sounds like a rational man (not a common MLC trait) and he is trying to be considerate of how things impact you. He fails sometimes (inviting you on the boat and then not out for the rest of the day).
When H was at his worst, the last thing he thought about was the impact of his actions on me. He told me he thought we were finished
on my b-day last year, saw me breakdown, and then thought it was still ok to go Dubai 2 days later to spend 5 days with a school friend who had just got divorced. He literally did not speak to me (unless you count huffs and growling) between christmas and NY. 2 days before NYE he announced he had booked to go to a NYE party with another friend (also divorced) and his GF. He didn't seem to care that I was a shattered mess by that point. He even blamed me "you never want to go out NYE. I always end up sitting on the sofa on my own" (woes is me, we have young children you [censored]'.
Compare that to last night when he asked me if I wanted to keep our dog home with me instead of going to his flat with the girls 'so she can keep company'. Ditto the anger and the cherry picking bad moments in our history and focusing only on those. I think your H is further on the awakening path. They do say that sometimes, even when the LBS is still standing, even where the WAS want to come back, the guilt over the hurt they've caused and the huge uphill battle to R is too much for them.
What I'm trying to say is tread carefully. He is further on his journey then my H (who still wants to check if the grass is greener), but your H knows he [censored] up and he is trying to make things right (note: i did not say trying to R).
You and I, and others here have set ourselves on a long and painful journey with no guarantees. I am glad you are here to hold my hand (so to speak) whilst I walk it.
Have a great time with your sister. Against DB'g but I would text H a happy birthday.
DejaVu6
Hope you are having a fabulous time with your sister. Tell us all about it when you get back.
Just a quick update because I am exhausted and heading to bed. Had a great time with my sister. Did some shopping... bought shoes...had a nice dinner...played our favourite slot machines. It was nice being away and trying not to think about things. The morning we left was a bit tough. Both my kids were teary because I was leaving on “Daddy’s birthday”...ugh...told them Daddy was happy I was going because he wanted to spend some special time with them. My daughter asked if me and Daddy were “okay”. Somehow not being there for his birthday was a bigger indicator of trouble than the fact he hasn’t really been living here for months?? Anyway... only spent a couple of hours feeling guilty (not mine to have, I know) and then i was able to shake it off.
Today when I arrived home, my H was here. He made a point of telling me all the things he had done with the kids in my absence. We chatted for a couple of minutes and then he said he needed to go because he was feeling quite sick and nauseous. I was briefly irritated because i needed to leave again but he had organized his mom to take care of them for the evening so it was okay. On his way out the door, he asked if I had plans the next night. I thought about it for a few seconds and he laughed and said the he liked that I have to think about it? Pretty sure I didn’t have plans so I told him that and asked why he asked. He said that he was just wondering if I would like to have a glass of wine with him. So...that’s what I am doing tomorrow night. Not sure why he wants to meet. I hope it’s a positive sign but I am going to make a point of ridding myself of any expectations. Wine and conversation is all I am expecting. After he left, my MIL told me that she had tried to send him home earlier because he was feeling really sick but he told her that he wanted to wait until I got home. Again...maybe a positive sign? My MIL seemed to think it was because previously, he has avoided me like the plague.
So...that’s the latest in my sitch. A bit nervous about our wine date tomorrow. Hoping he is not wanting to tell me something I’m not going to want to hear. Guess time will tell...
I hope the wine date goes well. Be prepared for some manipulative BS.
Make sure your GAL is on point so the next time he asks you'll have to inform him that you already have plans. You don't want to be super available to him.
HI DejaVu - I too hope it goes well. My advice would be the same if the conversation goes in an "I think I've made a mistake" or "I am happier living apart" direction. Stay calm, validate, don't commit. Easier said then done I know.
Your weekend away sounds wonderful.
I don't really know the right answer re the kids. Most of the time mine seem fine, like they accept the new normal. Then there is a birthday or a family tradition, and suddenly they become moody/clingy/teary. Or something minor happens (a lost pen, what they want not being on the menu in the restaurant) and suddenly there are silent tears falling down their cheeks. They never say I'm sad because Daddy doesn't live here. They try and hold it together for us. I think you gave the right answer though. By saying Daddy wants to spend special time with you, you made it positive. You gave reassurance that they are loved and that you are both onboard with you going away on his birthday.
Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst. I completely feel what you are going through. Stay strong. Stay positive. Be gracious and good luck. Hope we'll hear only good news.
So... much todo about nothing. He showed up with a bottle of my favourite wine and said he just wanted to “hang out”... no particular reason. So we chatted for a while about his work... and then mine... about our kids and then a little bit of R talk. It wasn’t a planned thing but it was a natural progression with both of us talking more philisophically than anything. My H feels like because of my education and my upbringing, I’m a little ahead of him on the emotionally developed scale. He says he was preoccupied with work the last week but is going to another counselling appointment this week to get back to figuring himself out... “time for some more self reflection”. He tells me he doesn’t have an end goal in mind but did admit his little place is “getting a bit old”. He still has no plan other than to figure himself out and to figure himself out. He says he has “pressed pause” on his heart - not just in terms of his feelings for me but also his feelings for anyone else. He maintains he has no interest in looking for love elsewhere. We also talked a lot about the concept of happiness and I told him that if I have felt unhappy, my practice has always been to ask myself what I was doing or thinking to cause myself to feel that way. He admitted that that is not something that he has always done. He was interested in my activities of late. I told him that I have been enjoying myself and remembering who I was before but that I lived on my own for several years before him and I know myself quite well. He wondered if not ever having lived on his own has contributed to his situation now. I also told him that I am happy to spend time with him and talke about things but that if that we end up divorced, I won’t be able to be his “friend”. He said he understood that and also admitted that for the past 13 years I have been his best friend. We talked a bit about my proposal which he is “mulling over”. I told him that I’m not sure I could do that to the kids anyway as they are used to seeing me every day. He does have them for five days in mid-November when I am playing in a pool tournament. It’s in my city but I am basically only home to sleep. So, after about an hour of talking, he had to get going. He thanked me for the conversation. Said, as usual, he will take what we talked about and spend some time processing all of it.
So... probably broke some rules regarding no R talk but I don’t think it did any damage. It was not an emotional conversation but it was direct and honest and we did talk about some serious things. But...like I said...it was also quite philosophical in nature too so I don’t think he experienced it as threatening or pressure. Time will tell I guess but overall, I feel good about it. Thank you all for your good wishes and your advice. I appreciate it so much.
So pleased you had a good time with your sister.
I know I would have done the same as you did here, but I'll be honest and tell you what it screamed out to me when I read your post. 'Where's his incentive?'
You say that he won't have you as his best friend to unload to if you get D. Why should he have you now? What difference does D make to your current situation except a legal bit of paper? Is he currently behaving as if he is married?
I know I'm being harsh, but the MLCer is harsh. In his eyes, perhaps he has the best of both worlds 'get to do what I want and enjoy the benefits of W being there when I need someone to offload to' He was wallowing a bit and not committing to anything real except telling you how he feels. I think you already know that. You're still helping him with his feelings. You're his wife not his counsellor. I know part of being married is to be able to look to each other for support but he is picking and choosing which bits of being married suit him.
There are little signs that he's starting to 'miss you' but then you gave him what he needed.
Practice and work out what you are going to say when this happens again so that you cut him off whilst still being polite.
I probably would have done the same. It is so hard suddenly cutting yourself off emotionally when you see someone you love in distress. I could not say "well [censored] to be you" and walk away. But probably should.
I don't know what your H was like before all this self reflection, and I am far from an MLC expert, but from what I have read, self-reflection is not one of the traits of an MLC'r in the throes of the middle of their crises. If anything, it would probably hit somewhere in the later stages. Others here probably know more and can give better advice on how to react to one who has hit depression.
PS - mine looks like he is in replay and is going to be stuck there for a very long time ... with some anger thrown in just to keep me on my toes.
The talk was also him testing the waters, reconfirming you are still there for him if he needs someone to talk to. Plan B stuff.
I would push for a revision of your child care proposal. You have to have a childcare schedule. Can you stay at your sisters a couple of nights a week. He cannot continue being a part time dad who only gets the good bits.
And you need a break.
Thank-you Yorkie & FS. Very good points and not lost on me at all. After he left, I thought about it quite a bit and resolved to be less accommodating in the future. It was nice to see him though and to have a conversation that did not involve a lot of hurt feelings. I'm not sure what to think of the self reflection piece. I feel like he has been "hiding" from me for at least four, maybe five years. I remarked to my sister on our drive that in terms of my day-to-day life, nothing has actually changed for me. I see about as much of him now as I did before I found out about his secret life. The only difference is now I know what he is doing and he knows I know so maybe he has a chance to look inward a bit more than before when he was so focused on keeping up the lie. I feel like there isn't much more for me to say though so will concentrate on stepping back and being a little less available. It is tough though... when he is in self-reflection mode, he often likes to run things by me and says it helps. He has another counselling appointment coming up. Hopefully that will help.
We do have a childcare schedule currently in that he has committed to seeing them on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays (afterschool and he takes our daughter to her speech therapy appointment). He also spends Sunday days with them. What he doesn't do is take on any of the organizing and day-to-day household responsibilities. That is my department and always has been. He had the kids at his place overnight on Sunday apparently when I was away. He said he had some computer work that he had to get done. The issue there is that they are in the same room and in sleeping bags. Not a great arrangement when they have to go to school the next day. They would prefer their beds. And...we don't want to invest any money into buying them beds because we haven't decided if this arrangement is going to be long term. We will need to revisit that in the New Year if he is still there.
R2C beat me to it
I read your thread and always think how similar our sitch's are. Our H's are good people doing not so good things. I want to shake mine all the time and say "wake up you idiot".
I see about as much of him now as I did before I found out about his secret life. The only difference is now I know what he is doing and he knows I know so maybe he has a chance to look inward a bit more than before when he was so focused on keeping up the lie. I feel like there isn't much more for me to say though so will concentrate on stepping back and being a little less available.
This is exactly how I feel. I see H more now than I ever did. Not only that. When he is here he is here and not scrolling through his phone. He is not reflective and self aware like your H but, still, it is a little disconcerting. Apart from not living under the same roof and not being affectionate to one another, my life has not really changed. He had amassed and was paying off a massive student debt, so I have paid for nearly everything home or child related so him leaving has not left me any worse off financially.
If you are happy with the childcare arrangements, then you should stick with it. But, I do think you need to try and get him to have the kids the odd weekend and one night a week. Babysitting is not the same as being a dad. Can you not stay at your sisters?
DV, as far as R talks go it sounds like you handled it perfectly. The rule is not to initiate R talks, but sometimes the WAS does or sometimes they flow naturally out of a related convo and in those cases it's OK to let it happen. The advice is to listen and validate and it sounds like you did that quite well! So well done!
Thank you everyone for your comments. I’ve been thinking a lot about the cake eating. In some ways, I feel like it would be easier if we didn’t have the kids as I could really get some distance. But we do have them and with him living so close to us, it is just so easy for him to come and go. Good for the kids… ot so good for me. Even though on some level, I like to see him, I could also use some time of not seeing him as my down days seem to coincide with the pop-ins. This morning, he came by to pick up our daughter to take her to her tutoring appointment. He was a bit early so when I came out of my room, he was standing there with a cup of coffee he had poured for himself. He saw me and asked my daughter for her IPad so he could show me a video of a new electric car he thinks is really cool. He is so delusional… news flash… if you and I split up, there is NO WAY you will be able to afford that. But…he doesn’t deal with our finances so he really has no clue about things like that.
FS... I, too, think our sitchs are very similar. I struggle with the “wake up idiot” feeling whenever I am around my H. I know that he doesn’t tell me everything about how he is feeling but I truly want to shake him because outwardly, he looks pretty pleased with himself. Ugh…
Feeling kinda down this morning. Maybe because of the gray weather and the realization that Christmas and 2019 are fast-approaching? I got my new agenda for work yesterday and I was leafing through the pages wondering what my life will be like next year. Makes me anxious to think about it. I think I’ve been doing a pretty good job for the most part DBing and GAL but I still have a long way to go to detach. I wonder if there is a way to do that and still hang on to my love for him. This is a question I ask myself every day. That and I wonder why I would even love someone who has lied to me and our children for so long. Is that love or is it just neediness? The reality is that I don’t think I really know my H anymore…if I ever did. I don’t think he knows himself so how can I possibly know him?
Sigh… two steps forward and one step back. This really is the most challenging thing I have gone through and I’ve lost both my parents to cancer. So glad I am not alone but also very sad that everyone on here is going through similar circumstances. I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy.
DV,
I saw a video of the polarizing Canadian physiologist Dr. Jordan Peterson liken divorce and the whole process akin to a long term non-terminal case of cancer. That thought popped in my head when you mentioned the tragedy and loss of your parents to cancer.
TF... I have listened to a couple of Jordan Peterson's podcasts... Reality and the Sacred is a great one... and may be the video you watched. I know he is controversial but I definitely identify with some of the things he says. The sacred is really what is being lost in society, I think. This idea that we should live to a higher moral standard even if we aren't necessarily "happy" doing it. I have always strived to live my life the "right way". My moral compass is extremely strong. My H, on the other hand, his changes direction all the time according to his "feelings" and his ability to justify going off course. I have a clear vision of who I am, what I stand for, how I want to live my life, what kind of example I want to set for my children. My H would have a hard time articulating what his moral code is. Maybe that he doesn't kill anyone?? Judging from his behaviour... the list of "do nots' is not long currently. Anyway... if you haven't heard this podcast, you should give it a listen. I think it's pretty on point.
In some ways, I feel like it would be easier if we didn’t have the kids as I could really get some distance. But we do have them and with him living so close to us, it is just so easy for him to come and go. Good for the kids… ot so good for me. Even though on some level, I like to see him, I could also use some time of not seeing him as my down days seem to coincide with the pop-ins. This morning, he came by to pick up our daughter to take her to her tutoring appointment. He was a bit early so when I came out of my room, he was standing there with a cup of coffee he had poured for himself. He saw me and asked my daughter for her IPad so he could show me a video of a new electric car he thinks is really cool. He is so delusional… news flash… if you and I split up, there is NO WAY you will be able to afford that. But…he doesn’t deal with our finances so he really has no clue about things like that.
I have the same feeling all the time. I went out for an hour yesterday (whilst he was watching the kids) and when I came back he had made himself toast and was sitting in the kitchen eating breakfast. He is still so at home here. Part of me likes this. Part of me misses this. But I cannot kiss him on the shoulder when I walk past, I cannot kiss him goodbye when I leave. Then he says something like "I caught up with X a couple of weeks ago" and I think to myself, why didn't I know that. Oh yeah, because we're separated and I have no idea what you do when you're not here.
Oh, and the car he bought himself pre BD. It was a Tesla - apparently the car for the average MLC'r is not only ridiculously expensive but now also environmentally friendly. I hate that f*&^@g car.
. I wonder if there is a way to do that and still hang on to my love for him. This is a question I ask myself every day. That and I wonder why I would even love someone who has lied to me and our children for so long. Is that love or is it just neediness? The reality is that I don’t think I really know my H anymore…if I ever did. I don’t think he knows himself so how can I possibly know him?
Detaching is a tool to help keep us safe in the midst of their craziness. But, I agree. With each passing day, I feel further and further away from him and one day I fear that I will be so far away that I won't be able to see the man I love anymore.
You do not strike me as needy. You see the man he was and the man he still can be. The question of how much pain you can take before that man emerges is really up to you. I face this question every time he hurts me with his "I am soooo much happier now" demeanor.
I read your posts and think to myself that is the kind of woman I want to be. You show such strength, resolve and most importantly warmth. Hang in there. You're going to be fine.
And I had already guessed you had a good moral compass.
going to find some Jordan Peterson podcasts later ...
TF... I have listened to a couple of Jordan Peterson's podcasts... Reality and the Sacred is a great one... and may be the video you watched. I know he is controversial but I definitely identify with some of the things he says. The sacred is really what is being lost in society, I think. This idea that we should live to a higher moral standard even if we aren't necessarily "happy" doing it. I have always strived to live my life the "right way". My moral compass is extremely strong. My H, on the other hand, his changes direction all the time according to his "feelings" and his ability to justify going off course. I have a clear vision of who I am, what I stand for, how I want to live my life, what kind of example I want to set for my children. My H would have a hard time articulating what his moral code is. Maybe that he doesn't kill anyone?? Judging from his behaviour... the list of "do nots' is not long currently. Anyway... if you haven't heard this podcast, you should give it a listen. I think it's pretty on point.
I think Dr. JP political stuff is what he is controversially known for. His psychology and his ability to mix, religion(s) and myth are where he is spot on. I listen to him quite often during workouts. His recent book is on my to read list. The video I watched was from a university lecture in Toronto I think. I will go seek out this podcast thank you.
I too feel that I have a strong moral compass. I thought my W also had a strong moral compass, but it appears to not be the case. Its possible that she is who she is and I just projected myself onto her. I believe you said somewhere you were an IC for children. I could be wrong. Anyway my IC told told me as we age we develop mentally/emotionally and crisis such as D can propel us early to the next level or stage maturing us further along to that older wise person stage. However, people can freeze and be stuck as is likely for my W and your H. They could be at a much younger stage than you or I. Unfortunately, they may never get out of that stage or it takes a long time. They have to work it out, but they can seek help. We can lead by example for them, but we cannot do it for them. Hence we are all in the sitch we are in.
You have a good memory. Ironically, I am an IC - for teens mostly. Lots of depressed and anxious teens out there... I will never be out of work. Sadly. I think that is where I struggle to detach from my H's "self-exploration" attempts. I know I am not his counsellor yet as his wife, I have sometimes fallen into the role. For sure he is at an earlier stage than me if for no other reason than our different upbringings. His family is very challenged when it comes to communication and his dad has no real moral compass that I have seen. Self-gratification has always been high on his priority list. I feel sad for my H that he is the role model he had growing up. My dad was ten times the father that my H's dad was. Still...my H is a smart guy...he could have made different choices. I am also aware that he has a heck of a lot to work out. It is just hard sometimes to step back and let him do it. He struggles with things that for me are a "no brainer" and works overtime to justify his behaviour and questionable decisions. If only he had worked that hard on being a husband and a father, we would not be in this mess. If only...
Thank-you FS for all your kind words. Not sure I measure up to them on a day-to-day basis but it is what I strive for. Trying to avoid contacting my H as much as possible to let him be after our talk. But man it is hard...something seems to come up every day with the kids or the house. But I am getting better with the business texts, for the most part. Sometimes I will get sucked into a friendly exchange but it is a work in progress. I know I will likely see my H today. The kids have a costume party to go to and he is the costume guy so he will be here getting them ready. Or maybe he will get them ready and then bail before I get home. That is certainly possible. Not sure which I would prefer. Contact hurts and no contact hurts... doesn’t seem to matter. Gosh...I just wish I could press fast forward and see how this story ends so I can just get used to the idea. The recommended and smart thing to do is move on and accept he is not coming back. I feel like I need to take a couple weeks and take a trip or something in order to do that but alas, duty calls. There is no running away when you have kids - unless you are my H, I suppose. He’s been running for months. Anyway...the day awaits. I’m going to make it a good one. Hope you are able to do the same. (((HUGS)))
I don't think the friendly exchanges are a bad thing. Like talking to a work colleague about a joint project. Sometimes there is small talk, sometimes it is straight down to the work stuff. It does seem very fake. We are both very careful not to say anything that will lead to R talks.
I read some of the threads on here and think, it would be so much easier to detach if my H was just a straight up b****d. At least hate could drive me forward. At the moment I am just stuck.
I have taken a few holidays on my own since BD. I did a weeks yoga retreat and a three day spiritual retreat. I found these really useful. I came back lighter after both. I would definitely recommend it. Though, it didn't take long for the weight of reality to hit me.
If it helps - the sadness occurs less now. I cried practically every day for months. Songs, movies, looking at my ids, anytime someone mentioned his name. Though, when the sadness hits, it is as intense as when it first happened.
Thanks FS. I had a good day at work and then when I got home, my H was there getting our kids ready for their Hallowe’en party. I never know how I am going to feel when I see him. Tonight I was feeling neutral when I walked in but it quickly turned to uncomfortable and then irritated. I don’t know why. I guess maybe because it is Friday night and it still hurts that he would rather spend it somewhere else? Anyway...he was driving them to their party and I was supposed to pick them up. I suddenly realized I did not want to watch them leave so I quickly changed, said good-bye to the kids and “see ya” to my H. He had a weird look on his face...it struck me as kind of amused. Ugh. Like maybe he thought I was just leaving to leave. I was, in a way, but I really can’t stand to be here with him sometimes so I went to my sister’s as she had called to see if I wanted to come over anyway. I did feel a little bit good that I left first. My goal this weekend is to not text him at all. I need some distance. I realized that it has only been six weeks since I found out about all this but it seems like it has been so much longer. Technically...I guess it has been.
I think you are right FS. If my H was a total B*****d, it might be easier to detach. Hate would be a handy emotion at this time. I feel stuck too. Tonight I joined a meetup group in my city for women 40+. I think I am going to force myself to go to one of their events. I need to meet some new people and expand my circle of friends. Not feeling super hopeful these days. Sadly I think my H is quite happy to be a part-time dad and living on his own.
Journaling....
Went into my bathroom to get ready for bed and noticed my H’s electric toothbrush is gone. I am pretty sure it was there last night so he must have taken it today. I don’t know why but for some reason that really hit me hard. I mean, how crazy right, out of everything that has disappeared from our home that I would care the most about his toothbrush. Had a surge of emotions when I saw it wasn’t there. I immediately took everything else of his that was on the bathroom counter and shoved it into a drawer. Now when I look in the bathroom, it definitely looks like only one person uses it. I’m really hating him in this moment... for being such a selfish short-sighted man-child....for doing this to me and to our kids. I keep asking myself why I would want this person in my life - someone who has done nothing but lie to me and leave me alone to take care of everything for the better part of four years. How does he look at himself in the mirror each morning? I know I will eventually get to a place where I accept it but I will never, ever, ever understand it.
I suddenly realized I did not want to watch them leave so I quickly changed, said good-bye to the kids and “see ya” to my H. He had a weird look on his face...it struck me as kind of amused. Ugh
I know this look. I call it smug. Its the look that tells me H still holds some resentment towards me. Satisfaction over getting a reaction. Pay it no mind.
Tonight I joined a meetup group in my city for women 40+. I think I am going to force myself to go to one of their events. I need to meet some new people and expand my circle of friends.
I joined a meetup social group who met for dinners, pub nights and dancing soon after BD. By social group what they really meant was people looking to socialise and maybe hook up. I hated it. I might try a yoga or walking group after the improv course. The her 40's womens group sounds good too.
Journaling...noticed my H’s electric toothbrush is gone .... I don’t know why but for some reason that really hit me hard ... I immediately took everything else of his that was on the bathroom counter and shoved it into a drawer. Noe when I look in the bathroom, it definitely looks like one person uses ut.(
It's the little things that get you once they've moved out. The reminders that they lived there once, and now no longer do. H and I (use to) have a shared electric toothbrush. I was away recently and he stayed here with the girls overnight. I noticed when I got home that his toothbrush head was on the electric toothbrush. It really threw me so I threw it in the bin.
As an aside, (I think I may have mentioned it) the day he moved out i walked around the house and took down every photo of him. I put any photos of him and the girls in their respective bedrooms and then put any photos of us in his 'magic wardrobe'. When I came home the next day he had taken the box of photos from the wardrobe. I was speaking to our cleaner yesterday and she remembers that day. She said she saw him put in in the back of his car and there were tears running down his face. He never said a word about it then or now. When I went around to his flat a few weeks later he had take our photos out of the frames and either put photos of the children in them or just put out the empty frames out. I told him his flat was nice, then I went home I cried. I didn't say a word about it then or now.
I was trying to erase him out of my life (and he felt hurt by it) and he was trying to erase my from his (and I felt hurt by it). Why couldn't we just tell each other we were both hurting. Its times like this I want to shake him and say "wake up".
More journaling...
The weekend was okay. H spent a lot of time with the kids because I was busy on Saturday and it was his day to have them on Sunday. Something interesting happened on Saturday night. I sent him a picture of our daughter crying over a spider donut she had eaten (she gave it a name and felt bad she had eaten it...lol). It struck me as funny and I know that I shoudn’t have but I just had to send him the picture. I feel like he misses out on so much. Anyway, he texted me back right away with a comment and then sent me a second text that he was on the phone with his dad. Normally not a big deal but he hasn’t talked to his dad in 15 months and as far as I knew, wasn’t planning on being the first to reach out. Kind of took me by surprise. Not really sure what to make of it but maybe he is starting to unpack some things?
He tried to get me to feed them dinner on Sunday but I had plans and I told him I needed him to step up and be a parent, not a babysitter. He took it rather well. In fact, he is being so nice that you would think he is the one DBing. Sunday he came inside when he brought them home and saw that I was drinking a glass of wine so asked if he could join me. I agreed and he sat down to chat. I asked him how his phone call went. Apparently, after 15 months of no contact, they started talking like they had just talked the week before. HIs dad asked him nothing about himself or why he hadn’t called him in over a year. Did not mention anything about the fact that H isn’t living with his family. Nothing. Apparently he just talked about the things he is working on around his house and a mishap that happened last week when he almost got into a car accident. Huh?? That is so unbelievable to me. Also explains why my H is so avoidant and unable to talk about important issues if he thinks they might lead to any kind of a conflict. Between his mom and his dad, he has not had one conversation about our current situation. My MIL wrote him a seven-page letter when she thought he was having an affair. She hasn’t given it to him and not once has she brought up her own feelings about this situation. For as long as he was lying to me, he was lying to her and letting her take on his parenting responsibilities. It is so crazy to me that she hasn’t said one word to him about it but she has said plenty to me. Bizarre.
We also talked about Hallowe’en. He was under the impression that I wanted him to take the kids out while I would stay at home and hand out candy. I told him that I wanted to take the kids out as well so we agreed to do it together which is the first time since the boat ride that led to my “meltdown”. He’s coming for dinner as well which is also a first. He hasn’t eaten a meal with us since September 15th, the day after I found out about his secret hideaway.
H also told me that he has been struggling with pain (leftover from his Shingles) the last few days and that he was running low on medication. I offered to give him some of mine as I use the same meds for my migraines and am on a new preventative treatment that seems to be working so I haven’t had to take them for six weeks now. He thanked me and I went and got him some pills and handed them to him. He then started crying and said that he is just really sick of the pain. Sadly, the me that loves him and wants to comfort him came out and I hugged him. I should not have. He patted me on the back like he was comforting me and it was the kind of hug one gives a friend. Made me sad and resolved to do better with the detaching. I know that I could do a great job of it if I focused on all the negatives.... the things he does that drive me crazy and all of the lies he has told me, etc... I am afraid to go there. I want to let him go with love, not disdain - for my sake, for my kids’ sake, for the sake of our future co-parenting relationship. I know this is the long road to detachment. So...onwards and upwards, I suppose. I am looking forward to taking the kids out tomorrow and am hoping for decent weather. Will try to focus on them and not worry about my H so much. Tonight is their dance and I told H to stay home and that I would handle it. He has been with them more this week than he had been in a month of his running away behaviour. So, I am happy for them at least. They have their dad back. A consolation prize for losing their parents together. I still am struggling with that and coming to terms with how easily he has walked away from us as a family unit. It is something I would not have even considered, even in my unhappiest moments.
I sent him a picture of our daughter crying over a spider donut she had eaten (she gave it a name and felt bad she had eaten it...lol). It struck me as funny and I know that I shoudn’t have but I just had to send him the picture. I feel like he misses out on so much.
Don't beat yourself up about this. You are not sending ILU's or I miss you. You are sending pictures of your kids to their father. Not to remind him of what he is missing out on. Not to tell him "look we're doing so well without you", but because they are his kids and he loves them. I see it as no different to sending a pic of the kids to H's mum - though I wouldn't send it with the extended commentary I normally send to her. Just a "thought you'd get a kick out of D8's successful attempt to eat with chopsticks".
... and then sent me a second text that he was on the phone with his dad. Normally not a big deal but he hasn’t talked to his dad in 15 months and as far as I knew, wasn’'t planning on being the first to reach out. Kind of took me by surprise.
I think the S probably made H realize how important the relationships between a parent and their child is. Plus, and this is a personal theory with no evidence to support it whatsoever, I think we can only obsess about one thing/ person at a time.
Our brains don't have the processing capacity to obsess over two things/persons so makes room for the new one. The other one kind of takes a back seat. If the person we were originally angry with was important in our lives, then we reach out, if they were not important, then they disappear into the realms of "people [we] once knew" and never waste another thought or emotion on them.
He has been with them more this week than he had been in a month of his running away behaviour. So, I am happy for them at least. They have their dad back. A consolation prize for losing their parents together. I still am struggling with that and coming to terms with how easily he has walked away from us as a family unit. It is something I would not have even considered, even in my unhappiest moments.
I really hear you on this one. On one hand I am so happy the kids have the father they deserve, and on the other hand, I watch them together and think, what about me. I try and look on the bright side, and yes, it is a consolation prize, but he is now a better father than before BD. It saddens me it took destroying our M to get him to be that better father. It is only my ego that is hurt. Knowing that doesn't make it hurt less though.
Interesting theory FS. I will definitely have to think about it.
I have the exact same “what about me” thoughts when I see my H with the kids. It is ironic that the destruction of one relationship leads to the building of another that we are forever a part of but also not a part of. You know what I mean? My kids have been to my H’s a number of times. My son talks about the boy who lives downstairs. My daughter has a friendship with his mom (who apparently went in for a second surgery today and things are not looking good). These people are strangers to me. They are part of my H’s life - not my H, exactly, but the person who is currently occupying his body. He is creating a new reality for himself that does not include me. That hurts. It hurts a lot.
Journaling…
So…it’s a good thing that we talk a lot about having no expectations although, when it comes to my H, since he got Shingles, my expectations have always been low to expecting to be disappointed. He continues to not disappoint me in that regard. Predictably, our Hallowe’en plans went south. My daughter decided she wanted to go out with her friend. She tried to take her brother but he doesn’t like the friend’s little sister [she is a handful, no doubt] so said he wanted to go on his own with me. My H came for dinner and to help get them ready but I could tell from his face that he was having some pain issues again and he had that “I need to bail” look that I know so well. Despite my anticipation of this, I think I looked somewhat disappointed and I know he felt guilty when he left. Tried to do damage control by sending him a couple of pictures to which he responded enthusiastically. This morning, he texted me to ask how it went and apologized for being a “pain in the ass”. I almost texted back that I am used to it but did a 180 on that and told him “no worries” and that I would be going out tonight (ironically to a fashion show at his place of employment – one of my teen clients invited me) so the kids would be with his mom if he wanted to visit. He told me a couple days ago that he wanted to go river fishing right after work but the weather looks like it may not cooperate so he might stop by to try to make up for last night.
Admittedly, this detaching thing is hard to do when I see or hear from him almost every day. This weekend his daughter is coming for a visit and will stay with me. She’s having relationship problems with her BF and wants to come over for a break from the drama. So…my H will be around again. He’s always described this situation as a “temporary break” but the longer this goes on, the more I think that he is just telling me that to soften the blow for when he eventually tells me he wants to make this a permanent thing – likely around the time he runs out of money and has to start going into our joint account. I have to give him props though, other than his gas and the odd grocery or Home Depot bill, he has used very little of our money and has told me that he is trying to keep expenses down. I’ve told him that I appreciate it. Personally, again, I think this is to soften the blow for when we finally have that talk neither of us wants to have – me because I just want to work on the M and him because he avoids conflict like the plague. Sigh…
Admittedly, this detaching thing is hard to do when I see or hear from him almost every day.
I so hear you on this. Like you I do the best I can. My entries are full of H because I do see him every day, and, as I am not fully detached, I still feel the need to analyze every bit of every interaction. Sometimes, I wish my H displayed the level of cruelty that I read on other threads so that I could detach properly. I could set proper boundaries. However, I am grateful that he is not cruel (anymore) and I know this makes detaching harder.
I know the constant contact is hard, but would you really prefer it if your H was gripped with the darkness that some of the other spouses here?
I think detaching, particularly in our sitchs where the spouse is showing a commitment to being a good parent, is really more about removing expectations than going dark. I try and remember that he is here so much for the children. If there were no children, there would be no contact. That helps me reduce my expectations or at least act like I don't have expectations. Clearly I still do though.
I have to give him props though, other than his gas and the odd grocery or Home Depot bill, he has used very little of our money and has told me that he is trying to keep expenses down. I’ve told him that I appreciate it. Personally, again, I think this is to soften the blow for when we finally have that talk neither of us wants to have – me because I just want to work on the M and him because he avoids conflict like the plague. Sigh…
Our H's are so alike they could be reading from the same play book.
PS - I'm sorry your hallowed didn't go to plan. It is difficult to remove expectations from any type of holiday/event.
It is pretty scary how alike our H's are. Yours has been out of the home since March and technically, mine has too, I just didn't realize it until September. Hating my H would make it easier to move on but I know that this way is better for our children. I do like the contact between us in some ways. I just worry that I am getting too used to it and that if we move forward and declare ourselves officially S or moving on to D, I will need to set some more boundaries so that we don't see each other so much. I know he does not have as much effect on me when I haven't seen him for a few days.
I've gotten over the Hallowe'en disappointment. I am still bugged that I let myself be disappointed at all since I had predicted it. If you had asked me beforehand what the chances were that he would stick it out with me and the kids, I would have told you 25%. I really have to start preparing better for the worst instead of hoping for the best. I actually feel like I should be doing that about the entire sitch overall but it is difficult when I see him and things feel so normal other than I can't really touch him or say ILU anymore. That part is tough. I'm a pretty affectionate person by nature. However, thinking back, I wasn't really being that way with him the last six months or so. I think I just sensed he was not open to it.
His daughter is staying with me over the weekend so I expect I will see him a fair amount. Other than letting him know when she is arriving, I am going to leave it to the two of them to figure out how much of a visit they want. He is used to me organizing everything so I am curious to see if he steps up his game. That's about a 30% chance.
I actually feel like I should be doing that about the entire sitch overall but it is difficult when I see him and things feel so normal other than I can't really touch him or say ILU anymore. That part is tough.
This 'normalcy' is the worst part. It's like we are still together, but we are not. I want to reach out to touch him like we use to. He has just left, and I found myself going to kiss him goodbye. But I didn't. This whole thing is madness.
I so get what you mean FS. It is very difficult for me not to hug or kiss my H when I see him. I just have to keep reminding myself of the last time I hugged him. He hugged me like he was hugging a friend that he doesn’t even know that well. Ugh. That was worse than not hugging him.
I hate Fridays. My kids have activities on Fridays and my H gets off work early so he picks them up from school, feeds them and ushers them off to their activities so by the time I get home, the house is empty and quiet and it is just me and my thoughts. When I am busy during the day, I don’t think about him much but when it is quiet and I am alone, i can head down the “woe is me” path and the “if only” trail. Luckily I have some shopping errands to run and then I have to pick up my stepdaughter from the ferry. Then the house will be noisy and I will be wishing for quiet...lol.
No idea what this weekend is going to look like. Just going to keep it at “no expectations”.
Even worse the normal is in some ways better then before. H is cooking dinner 3 Times a week, he spends more time with the kids. Yesterday he fixed a leak in the bathroom. Things he rarely had time for before. I had to hold something for him in the bathroom and we were closer then we had been in ages. Avery good and sad feeling at the same time. Being so close and still so distant. Then I see his moving boxes and it is back to reality. I hope you have a great weekend.
He has just left, and I found myself going to kiss him goodbye. But I didn't. This whole thing is madness.
Every time I see H, and he's ready to leave, there is a momentary pause before one of us reaches out for a hug and a very light kiss on the lips. I sometimes wonder when he leaves if it will be the very last time we do. Will it just fizzle out to doing nothing? I sense that is the direction. I fear it, almost. It weighs on my mind.
FS, Kiwi, Grace... There are similarities in all of our sitchs. Whenever I read anything written by any of you, it’s like you take the words right out of my mind. Thinking of all of you this weekend and hoping you all find reasons to smile and laugh outloud this weekend. My stepdaughter and I just spent the last hour watching reruns of Friends and laughing. It is good to have her around. Ironically, I don’t think about her dad as much when she is here. Bedtime for me. Good morning to those of you on the other side of the pond.
I don’t even remember our last kiss anymore. I just remember the time I was trying to kiss him and he was turning away midnight on New Years Eve. Seems like he knows exactly what he wants. Still it took him almost a year to finally move out.
Please start a new thread and link the two threads together. Many thanks!