Well this might be my last thread as our D will be final in 6 days.
Read over the decree today and everything looked just as my W and I had discussed with the L. Almost everything has already been swapped or set into motion to happen. The main things that we have left to handle is the medical insurance and getting our retirement funds separated. I have the paperwork all ready to go so now it is just a matter of the judge signing.
Any way here is thread 14!
Link to old thread.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2784284#Post2784284
Joseph9, I'm not sure what to say. That's great? Or I'm so sorry to hear that? I'm sure you yourself have mixed feelings and many emotions. It sounds like you've accepted the situation and are more stable than many of us but it must still be sad in many ways.
Hey man you are doing great. Can’t believe you are going to be D before me. I learned some really important things that I think you also focus on and that is the reason you’re ahead of the game.
You can’t control anyone but yourself.
We’re in love with the fantasy of what we think the M COULD be but is not.
When you don’t accept the reality of your current situation you suffer.
With half of our time on the planet most likely already gone, why in the fuch would we want to spend it with someone who isn’t head over heels for us?
Try not to break too many hearts out there lol!
Be proud of where you stand man. My total respect for you.
Much love and respect to you, amigo! Praying I don't end up divorced as my separation is really fresh right now, but if it has to I hope to be as accepting and strong as you are being. God speed, buddy!
If it's going to happen then I wishI could fast forward to where you are. Limbo odds awful. Abd the D process I can't imagine is pleasant.
N - At some point every LBS has to face the reality of their situation. Stand for as long as you would like but if your going to stand (be in limbo) you really have to get yourself completely removed (detached) from the situation. If you continue to be in your spouses head space, hang on their every word and read into everything they do you will be miserable.
I have accepted my fate, try very hard to not look into the past or the future but stay in the moment. I focus on myself, my actions and am to the point to where I can interact with my STBXW and it does not phase me.
I know my value, have a lot to offer and am not scared about what my future holds. I have worked on all facets of my life since BD and am confident with who I am.
I hate to see all the ladies on this board struggle with their husbands. I know "Love is Blindness" (quoting 1 of my favorite U2 songs) but just know that you and all the other ladies deserve so much better than what you are getting. I will always be there for my W, if [censored] hits the fan she can always count on me as the father of her children. My W walked out on me, probably had an A and was not a nice person. With that said I never once thought about saying mean things to her, doing mean things to her, disrespecting her in front of our kids, I never controlled her, tried to manipulate her for sex or any of the other things you read on this board that H's are doing to their wives. N you and all the other ladies here deserve so much better. Please know and understand this. Don't let 1 man determine your value in life.
It is hard when you in the weeds but the only way through this is to focus on yourself....I mean literally everything you do should be for you, your children and nothing else.
L - Well I had some great advice on the way
. Since my W agreed on everything we didn't have a lot of back and forth so once the paperwork was filed it was pretty much a done deal. we just had to fulfill the 60 day waiting period which is technically up today
N - Thanks N.....the cool part is looking back on when it started to where I am now, the journey. How broken I was when I first arrived, trying to make sense of it all. It is the hardest thing I have ever experienced in my life however it has been the most rewarding.
I have accepted my fate, try very hard to not look into the past or the future but stay in the moment. I focus on myself, my actions and am to the point to where I can interact with my STBXW and it does not phase me.
I know my value, have a lot to offer and am not scared about what my future holds. I have worked on all facets of my life since BD and am confident with who I am.
If this ain't straight up SUCCESS, I dunno what is. This is totally ballerz and every LBS should be aiming to get to this place.
J9, wishing you the best, as you know I have followed your sitch from the beginning. We do not know what the future holds and who knows, maybe one day she will realize the mistake she is making.
As for the online dating please take it slow, and I would not post pics of the girls. I hear so many horror stories about online dating so please one day at a time.
As a close friend of mine said, let a new relationship happen naturally, and it will its just a matter of time.
Good luck. Everyone deserves to be happy, so, it's time you found your happiness. I hope I'm never in your shoes, but if I am, I wish I'll have your strength.
J9 good luck on your journey as one door closes but I'm sure another one or two will open. Thank you for the input and guidance you have offered to me. I have enjoyed reading it and have felt it was true, accurate, and helpful so again, thank you.
Thanks everyone for stopping by it means a lot. Two days left and it will be a done deal. I think I am more nervous about what my future holds and putting myself back out there in the dating scene than I am being divorced. Crazy!
Yesterday the W and I found a few things in the D decree that we had to ask the L to change. Nothng major but since it is the official document things we wanted to have in writing. I actually found them and told her she would probaly want these added for her behalf.
Then (I knew this was coming :)) she asked me if I would help her move from her apt to condo. She sent me an email asking if I would and that she would understand if this made in uncomfortable. I responded back to her and asked why I would be uncomfortable and to that she didn't have an answer.
So I thought about.........what it would mean if I say "no" and what it would mean if said "yes". Ultimately I told her I would and this is the reason why.
I didn't want to tell her no and give her the impression that I was mad, angry, upset, or whatever. I could have told her no because this is her journey, her choice and this is a part of D and you now have to fend for yourself. Then I thought what consequence is it of me? I am strong, confident, not pissed off, I know who I am so why would I not feel comfortable? So in the end I thought the stronger stance, a stronger show of my strength was to help. I don't help with any strings attached or any emotional attachment, I assist because she is the mother of my children and in my mind it was the right thing to do. I know my stance would be different if there was an OM and truthfully if there was she probably wouldn't be asking.
So I did respond back to her, telling her I would help, that I have no reason to feel uncomfortable and that I knew she would ask. I also gave her some suggestions on what type of truck to rent. I thought about going deeper into the conversation but chose not to, there are some cards that will reamin close to the vest. I still want to maintain the position of letting my actions speak louder than words.
Any way I know I will probably get some flack but I have been honest with the board from the start. I chose to do this from a position of strength not a position of weakness.
Thanks you you all!
I take my hat off to you J9!
Hello there,
I am a silent follower. You have been an example of the perfect LBS. I know one in real life.
I do honestly worry that you are trying to come across as so perfect that you aren't quite honoring your feelings.
No matter however good terms you are on, you do actually have reason to feel uncomfortable moving her. That's a very emotional activity. It is also not a weakness, but a strength to say you don't feel right moving her.
Her even asking is inconsiderate in my opinion. I have seem WAW still treat their ex husbands like husbands, especially those who do not move on to another guy. In my opinion, I think it is very selfish to expect the person you left to still act as your spouse and to ask them for spouse like help.
I am not telling you to be an A hole, but to look at this for what it really is and give some honor to your own feelings regarding this. You can do this with strength and honor too. Choosing not to be her H while you are divorced is actually a great strength.
Oh man! I feel so conflicted.
On the one hand, I totally get what you're saying J about why you responded 'yes' to her request. Working from a position of strength and letting your own values dictate your actions, rather than being reactive or succumbing to anger, resentment etc.
At the same time, I totally also see what Ginger is saying. Are you taking care of your feelings and honoring them? Not doing H type things is also a sign of strength and independence.
I am not sure what I would do.
Btw, I picked up a bottle of Bourbon made in Kentucky. Don't know my Bourbon so asked a nice fella working in the store and he gave me a suggestion. I hope it's good.
Nonetheless, I am ready for the 12th bro. Got the bourbon ready and will have it in your honor.
On the one hand, I totally get what you're saying J about why you responded 'yes' to her request. Working from a position of strength and letting your own values dictate your actions, rather than being reactive or succumbing to anger, resentment etc.
I think what people don't realize is that there is a balance between the two.
If there is that much love, and you wanted to save the M, yes, then moving her should be an emotional thing and it would be uncomfortable. AND THAT IS OK.
Sometimes we are too scared to touch on those feelings in fear of feeling them. I get it. But it might come busting at the seems one day, so be sure to balance them and know it is a strong thing to not be a husband to your ex wife and it is a strong thing to say no and admit some discomfort.
I agree with Ginger. Saying "no" is not a sign of weakness unless you make it be. It simply does not matter how she interprets it, it is 100% a question of what YOU want. If you want to help her and you are sure it does not have a detrimental effect on your emotions, by all means help her. But saying "no" doesn't mean you are angry or you haven't changed, or that you are somehow giving her a lesson.
Sorry, been out of pocket for a few hours as I had to take my oldest to a Dr appt. this morning.
M - What bottle did you get? I my girls this week and my oldest has soccer practice on Thursday night so needless to say I can't go too wild however I will definitely be having myself a little night cap.
G - Where you the perfect LBS in real life? I understand what you are saying and I guess in a nutshell don't sacrifice my feelings in an attempt to be a perfect DBing LBS. Is that accurate?
When she asked me my initial thoughts were, "man I can read you like a book". Me moving her out at 3 weeks after BD was brutal so me helping this time feels like a pin prick (emotionally). I guess I also thought that it was something I didn't want to shy away from. There will probably be other awkward moments in the future with me meeting someone she is dating, seeing her parents again, my parents being around her, etc. that I thought I better get some practice at these uncomfortable or potentially uncomfortable situations.
I guess I have not thought about us being MR or even saving the MR in quite some time which is why I didn't feel the emotions. It's not because I don't love her but I don't allow myself to go there (maybe kind of to your point G). We have also been separated for close to a year and everything I have done has been for me and not for her so my focus on saving the MR hasn't been there either. When I pause for second though and really think about her leaving and not coming back my emotions are flat. Maybe that is acceptance, not sure. The things that stir my emotions are when I think about my D's and my role as the protector of the family. Those emotions are what made me agree to help her and ensure the place is set up for her and my D's. I guess there is a part of me that can't let that portion be turned over to someone else just yet. I think I will feel differently though once the D is final.
I do know that I don't want to be her Johnny Boy and I do think it is conversation that I am going to have with her once this move is complete and she gets to her permanent place. Once the D is final and she gets moved/settled and all the paperwork is complete there is no reason why she should initiate any conversation with me unless it is about our children. I am trying to be rude about it but at some point we need to move forward.
I guess I am just trying to find the balance like you indicated G, so I agree.
J9,
I think I have said this before too. You are without a doubt the model DBer here :-) ... Maybe you are almost too good? Or maybe you are mentally stronger than many of us here? I say this without any sarcasm BTW. You have not seemed bitter in any of your posts. Are you not at all? Have you allowed the hurt and anger to flow naturally, or do you always dial it back?
I am not entirely sure why, but I agree with Ginger, and I think you should say no. I don't think this has anything to do with being a good man (you are, no doubt) or about proving a point to her (I don't see you doing that). I think you say no because simply stated it's the right move. She on her own left you and the M, and so she gets to leave on her own. It is symbolic in a way.
I want to make sure you know that it's okay to take care of your own emotions first and foremost. Moving her out could be highly stressful and triggering; I don't want you to have to go through that. And if it's not having that affect on you, then I want you to explore why.
It can be easy to put others, especially our kids, first. You seem like an amazing dad. I want to see you put you first. Have you really let the hurt and anger flow? Are you ready for that? I think it is in there somewhere. I think it's okay to let it all out and process this in any way you need to. Perhaps you know all this. I just haven't seen it here. And I think moving her out, could cause some additional harm to you, even if you are unaware of it.
Blu
Do that which you have to do for your Ds. For instance offer to have them whilst her moving is happening.
And that is it. I agree with Blu.
V
J9-
I have been here since 2008, been divorced/separated ever since, my daughter was 6 months old at the time, and I was fairly young. He and his OW just celebrated their 7th wedding anniversary. I was the absolute worst Db'er. I hated his guts for all the horrible stuff he had done. None of my behaviors were consistent. I was trying to win him back while I hated him. That didn't work. We didn't do anything for eachother...... I refused to meet OW for a very long time, I didn't even met her until after they were married.
Long story short, I was a horrible Db'er, but I have been somewhat of a model ex w. I let go of the hate and anger, I distanced myself, detached, and it was until I had no love left for this man, have I been able to be the model exW. And by "model" I do it for my daughter. I am cordial with OWW. I would actually rather deal with her than ex. We do things together. But I take care of myself and he takes care of himself. Once in a blue moon we will help eachother with something that might be something we are good at..... but we can only do that because we are so far removed.
My point is, this soon, you are not indifferent. You might tell yourself that, but like blu said, moving her could be a trigger for you. Why place yourself in that position? Like I said, it wasn't very nice of her to place you in that position either. She can pick up a phone and call a moving company. That's what I did the many times I had to move post-divorce. You have proven yourself to be a man only a fool would leave. You don't need to do it anymore.
I see an IC. I have brought a specific behavior that it took me a while to realize I even possess. I tend to subject myself to painful situations to see if I can handle them. To see how emotionally strong I am. To see how much pain I can take.
But why? Why do that? It's ok to not engage in situations that are unnecessary. That might trigger negative feelings.
You say there will be awkward situations when you introduce new people, ect. What is even more awkward and can cause problems down the road for everyone involved is when you are dating someone and still acting like a husband to your exW. Your new GF isn't going to appreciate that, and I wouldn't blame her one bit. Then you stop the niceties and your ex w gets mad. Then you switch dynamics all over again.
This is two fold why I say what I do. One is not setting a precedent. It won't benefit any of you in the long run. 2) it is not unreasonable to say no, and quite frankly, she was unreasonable to even put you in that position.
You have the right to think about how this might affect you. It might lead to more resentment, quite honestly, and that wouldn't help the situation anymore.
I feel like I am the little brother and my sisters are coming to stand up for me. It is truly heart warming and brings tears to my eyes.
I will definitely re-think my position as it is not too late since she doesn't move for over a month.
I don't think I am mentally stronger than anyone else but I do think I do a good job of channeling my anger. For me it is a slow burn and I have made it my mission to punish my STBXW for what she has done. I am going to make her regret what she did, how she did it and why she thought it was necessary. Every time I think about skipping a day at the gym, not going to church, eating something unhealthy, not finishing up that book, or not arranging a meet up with my buddies I just picture her smiling face
I am not the type to yell or scream, I won't punish her directly but I will make her pay you can count on that. She has to see me every week for the next 12 years and I won't forget it.
Is that better
G, that is heart breaking. I don't blame you for hating his guts, I could never imagine doing that to my W or anyone else for that matter. It shows what kind of person are to be able to overcome
My point is, this soon, you are not indifferent. You might tell yourself that, but like blu said, moving her could be a trigger for you. Why place yourself in that position
I will definitely re-evaluate my position all of you have given me something to think about and I definitely don't want to go backwards. I guess there was a part of me that was thinking that I saw this through until the end, through the complete transition to her permanent place then I could tell her J9 is done.
You have proven yourself to be a man only a fool would leave. You don't need to do it anymore.
Thanks G, that means a lot. Maybe I have got too wrapped up with trying to be perfect. I have taken everything anyone has ever said to me or posted to heart. I never took anything lightly and only did it for myself.
I need to see how I feel when I walk out of the court room on Thursday.
I see an IC. I have brought a specific behavior that it took me a while to realize I even possess. I tend to subject myself to painful situations to see if I can handle them. To see how emotionally strong I am. To see how much pain I can take.
I was in IC for almost a year, I need to make an apt to start back up again in case I have something come up. You guys are really making me think. One of my issues is looking for people to fix which is what attracted me to my w because she was so different than your stereotypical female. Thank you!
But why? Why do that? It's ok to not engage in situations that are unnecessary. That might trigger negative feelings.
True, there is no reason other than to live up to the standards I have set for myself. I will see this through to the end and walk away with my head held high. I don't want to be a martyr and I don't want to be her errand boy for years to come. With that said I know she won't stop and at some point I am going to have to say "no" I am done.
Your new GF isn't going to appreciate that, and I wouldn't blame her one bit. Then you stop the niceties and your ex w gets mad. Then you switch dynamics all over again.
you are 100% right and I wouldn't blame her. I am going to have to take a step back at some point in time and I do know when that happens the dynamics will change. It is unfair to the person in my next R so it is going to happen at some point. My W can't have the best of both worlds which is what I believe she is trying to hang onto. It's not fair to me either.
I have also had the D process in the back of my mind and getting through it amicable for our D's and so neither one of us tried to take advantage. I have always tried to think big picture and what my actions will mean long term.
You have the right to think about how this might affect you. It might lead to more resentment, quite honestly, and that wouldn't help the situation anymore.
I will definitely be putting more thought to it and I really do appreciate all of your insight and support. Like I said earlier I don't want to go backwards.
I could feel completely different when I walk out of that court room on Thursday.
I feel like I am the little brother and my sisters are coming to stand up for me. It is truly heart warming and brings tears to my eyes.
I will definitely re-think my position as it is not too late since she doesn't move for over a month.
I don't think I am mentally stronger than anyone else but I do think I do a good job of channeling my anger. For me it is a slow burn and I have made it my mission to punish my STBXW for what she has done. I am going to make her regret what she did, how she did it and why she thought it was necessary. Every time I think about skipping a day at the gym, not going to church, eating something unhealthy, not finishing up that book, or not arranging a meet up with my buddies I just picture her smiling face
I am not the type to yell or scream, I won't punish her directly but I will make her pay you can count on that. She has to see me every week for the next 12 years and I won't forget it.
Is that better
High five brother!
I don't think I am mentally stronger than anyone else but I do think I do a good job of channeling my anger. For me it is a slow burn and I have made it my mission to punish my STBXW for what she has done. I am going to make her regret what she did, how she did it and why she thought it was necessary. Every time I think about skipping a day at the gym, not going to church, eating something unhealthy, not finishing up that book, or not arranging a meet up with my buddies I just picture her smiling face
I am not the type to yell or scream, I won't punish her directly but I will make her pay you can count on that. She has to see me every week for the next 12 years and I won't forget it.
This is inspiring. Thank you for sharing your story with us. I am also not the type to yell and scream, but I have anger that I need to channel. This is how I plan to channel it.
J dawg - I can't add to the wise words of others that have already chimed in. In other news, it's a bottle called Basil Hayden Kentucky Bourbon - supposedly pretty decent. I haven't opened it yet.
For me it is a slow burn and I have made it my mission to punish my STBXW for what she has done. I am going to make her regret what she did, how she did it and why she thought it was necessary. Every time I think about skipping a day at the gym, not going to church, eating something unhealthy, not finishing up that book, or not arranging a meet up with my buddies I just picture her smiling face smile I am not the type to yell or scream, I won't punish her directly but I will make her pay you can count on that. She has to see me every week for the next 12 years and I won't forget it.
AMEN BROTHA!!! Precisely how I am channeling my anger now. The slow burn. Every small milestone is a notch up to where I want to be. She's going to hella regret how she did this and what she lost out on. I do got ladies checking me out and I know that I could make moves. Gonna happen soon. You keep at it man! That phenomenal woman is going to come and find you and is not going to let you go.
J, I kind of agree with most of the posters suggesting you rethink this. To me, the question is, "Will I enjoy this more than other things I want to be doing on my day off?" I don't think there's a universal right answer, but for me, the answer is I can think of a dozen things I would rather do than move someone, anyone, much less my ex.
I'll toast you on the 12th, too.....
M - Yeah, Basil is good I have had it a few times. Take a pull tonight to get your palate ready
J - Grab some Bourbon and we can have a virtual toast!
Thank you all for stopping by and I am happy to provide inspiration to anyone that reads. It is very inspirational to me and I thank you all from the bottom of my heart.
I will see you all Thursday
Gm all....got a good workout in this am but I broke down on my run, I really feel the anger this am....journaling helps get it out. Court in 2 hrs, I don't want to break down in the middle of it so I'll take all the prayers and vibes you got...see you on the other aide.
Good luck my friend!
Stay strong!
Hey man! Today is a big day in the sense that a huge change is being finalized in your life. Feel everything and all the emotions and let it out. You're allowed that. Sometimes I wonder if you've buried some of your feelings and emotions, but I hope breaking down after your run was cathartic.
Stay strong. I know this looks like the finish line, but infact it's the starting line.
I am so sorry it had to come down to this. ((((big bro hugs)))) I am thinking of you.
Thanks guys, man I am exhausted and officially D'd. Not sure where to even start.....unfortunately I couldn't hold it together and teared up in front of the judge. The trigger points are my D's and when the W was reading the script and had to read their names thats when the tears started flowing. The W noticed, I could tell her voice cracked a bit when she caught it. After we were walking out of the court house she rubbed my back and asked me if I was ok. I just said I'm good and I'll see you later and that what is it.
She was flat the entire time, didn't show much emotion. I found some more errors in the decree yesterday afternoon so I spent the last 2 hours of my day proofing it, making copies and getting the QDRO squared away so we had the documents for today.
So it's just kinda been a whirlwind. I must say it is a very surreal moment standing in front of the judge as he asks you the questions and makes it official. I tried to redirect my mind to a song that gets me pumped up, I started to think of you all on the board as well but I couldn't surpress the emotions.
It's not BD it really isnt even a mini BD as I am hungry as hell
....I guess it is just more of an emotional release TBH it is slightly overwhelming like I don't even know what to do. I just feel like being still and enjoying the silence.
Big hugs brother! I hope you can take the day off. Get offline and just be. Man, I am proud of you. Much love!
My respect man...you made me cry (sh!t)
(((J9)))
Nothing wrong in showing emotion. Nothing. You spent almost half of your life with this woman. It's natural.
Just be and experience it. Your new life starts tomorrow
Hope to hear from you every now and then!
I know I am female and a bundle of emotion, but FWIW, I cried like a baby at my divorce hearing and the bailiff had to bring me a box of tissues. I think that release of emotion you had was necessary, and completely normal.
Also, on my D day, I spoiled myself, went shopping, and did whatever made me feel good. The next day I woke up and I actually felt a huge weight lifted. It was like a new start.
Hang in there buddy. The worst is over.
Oh, and have you ever tried kickboxing? I credit it to getting me through the whole D process. I continued on and off for 9 years until I injured myself last year (doing something else). It is one of the greatest releases of every emotion I ever had. And it helped to imagine both ExH's and OWW's heads on those bags. I scared people in class when I did that. I always felt better afterwards.
Good luck. We're all thinking of you.
J9,
I teared up today. You are in my prayers! God got you. If we ever get a chance to meet up. First shot on me.
Hey bro! Hope you had chance to get some peace today. Having a glass of bourbon. The Basil is very smooth. Wasn’t expecting that.
See you on the other side.
Thanks everyone, I appreciate the thoughts and the kind words! I feel much better today and I think I was just mentally and emotionally drained. I ended up running a bunch of erands, some personal and a couple associated with the D. Took myself out to lunch, had a couple of drinks, then came home and took a nap. My oldest had soccer practice last night so I couldn't get too crazy.
I ended up taking today off as well, I just felt like I needed an extra day. Got a good workout in the morning and sat in the sauna for about 15 min just relaxing. Had to run a couple of more erands and then corresponded with the XW via email as we still have some things to separate financially.
Does D suck...it does but not as bad as what I thought it would 11 months ago.
N - Sorry I made you cry (i know I did), you can still silently lurk around and comment
. Your like a garden gnome, you never know where or when your going to appear but when you do it brings a smile to my face!
I - Well I definately experienced it. To quote one of my favorite sonds of all time....."Rise and fall turn the wheel 'cause all life Is really just a circle." This shall pass and good days are on the horizon.
G-Money - Well i went and had some ice cream from Sonic does that count? I also bought myself some new wireless ear buds that rock! Never did kick boxing but I have channeled quite a bit of anger in the weightroom.
I tried to hide the emotion but then I said F it......the EW needs to see it. I didn't give a [censored], I am not ashamed.
I appreciate all of your advice!
Top Jimmy (Van Halen reference) - Thanks man...stay strong, you deserve much better than what your W is capable of giving you.
JJ - Dam I made you cry also! F me....you need to go find your man card......it's probably lost with mine! I hope you and the W are doing well and if we ever meet up you can buy since your still MR
Yes God touched my soul.
M - Basil is smooth, the liquor store dude did you well. I appreciate all of your love and support, we have been in the same foxhole. You will be just fine, I have survived D and it't not that scary. It's bittersweet but more sweet than bitter (Another Big Head Todd and The Monsters song). Whatever happens with you....I got your back. I am even more motivated today than I was the day before.
As Blue used to say.....yesterday I took an L but tonight I bounce back!
Hi V,
Thanks, I really appreciate it. I am so glad that you came back to the board to offer your advice and wisdom. Your depth shines in every post that you make.
I know that I will be just fine. Most of my feelings are of sadness and what my D's won't experience of having an intact family and what they will miss out on. I fought for myself and stood for my MR but obviously it wasn't meant to be. It's not my path, not is my plan but I only hope that at some point I will understand the reason why.
The board has been my sanctuary and I learned from 25 that my values are not my EW's values and I can't impose my beliefs on her. I will continue on, heal and continue my journey on being the best man and father I can be. This is not the end of my story and my best days are to come!
Did you activate your profile lol?
HA, no it's not activated yet. I guess I am not sure if I am 100% ready yet or not. I feel in a weird place like I know my MR is over but there is a part of me that still feels like dating would be cheating. So I don't know if that means I am not ready or that it is still hard for me to picture myself with another woman. Any advice?
J9, please take it slow, many of my female friends have said let the next relationship happen naturally. Online dating from what I here from friends is a nightmare, do not believe the commercials on TV.
Have you joined and clubs or activities. I do not mean a pickup basketball games. Like a bowling league, softball, social club. Actually joined! Well now is your time, go and seek it out there is a new world waiting for you. BTW many social clubs have family activies.
You have done so well creating the new you and now its your time. I have no doubt that you will find a person to have a great relationship with just let it happen slowly.
it is still hard for me to picture myself with another woman. Any advice?
Take your time. If you don't feel ready, then don't. The only person who knows when you're ready is you, so don't let well meaning friends push you into it. If you are anything like me, you are mourning the death of your marriage, and that will take time to get over.
I feel kind of like a hypocrite, though, since I've been dating for a while. Part of me wishes I had waited longer, but I don't really regret it. It is nice to receive a woman's attention and some physical intimacy.
I was very up front about my status, and emotional availability (or lack thereof); some women weren't interested, and others felt the same way, and we enjoyed each other's company, with no expectations.
Not sure what LH and G added but I am definitely not going to rush it. I listened to a podcast at the gym the other day and it basically said that before you date you need to be ok being alone. I don't have a problem being alone, early on as I was starting in my career I moved to several cities were I didn't know anyone and was perfectly fine not dating anyone.
With that said I do miss having someone to share life experiences with but I think I will know when the time is right.
BH - I have not got involved with anything like you are describing however as I have got more involved with church I have met several new people through our small group bible study and started attending their monthly social events. On Friday night we had another outing and we participated in a kickball tournament. So far I have not noticed any single ladies but just interacting in general has been fun.
As more people learn about my situation in our small group (I really haven't spoke much about it) our small group leader came up to me (he is one person who I have opened up to) and told me I have a lot of balls for putting myself out there, getting involved and being active with my daughters (without having a significant other present). The compliment was huge for me and gave me a little extra confidence.
I have never really been that player type of guy that has always bounced from R to R even before I met my W. While I feel very confident with who I am and what I have to offer it's not something that exudes from me. The interesting thing to this is that I am an attractive person (I say that in the form of text not out of arrogance) and really should have no reason to not pursue what I want/desire.
And "yes" I do have a lot of people in my ear telling me to get out there and take advantage of this opportunity. I don't have my girls this week and there is a part of me that wants to make that profile active and start to interact with the opposite sex but something is holding me back. Not sure if it is just me being scared or if I fear telling people my story and or what to say when the topic of D comes up, when it was final and being labeled that guy on the rebound.
I hope to get more clarity.
Not sure if it is just me being scared or if I fear telling people my story and or what to say when the topic of D comes up, when it was final and being labeled that guy on the rebound.
Not sure what happened to G and my earlier posts, must have been a systems glitch.
Just keep it positive.
You got together relatively young, you were no longer growing together and you both wanted different things. You would never have changed it in a million years because you wouldn't have your precious daughters. You have learned so much from this experience and have a better understanding on what makes relationships work long-term.
Thank L how do you know when your ready? Are you ready? I'm not sure what I should be feeling.
I'm ready but I have known for about 14 months maybe longer that my marriage is over.
I do agree with the being comfortable being alone first.
My life is great right now minus the whole weird end of the marriage thing I got going on. I would just like to spend some time with members of the opposite sex and see what transpires. If it feels weird and I am not ready I will pull back.
True...you are mentally ahead of me. I feel like I am in a good spot, much better than last week. I think I will just sit on it a bit.....I guess the first time is going to feel no matter how I good I feel about where I am at.
When your ready you will know.
Just please do not feel it is cheating. You stood to the very end and you should feel proud of that my friend.
That's what everyone tells me.....I think as I get farther away from it actually being final I will feel differently. I can already tell that I am mentally heading in that direction.
Then there is a part of me that thinks I just need to say F it and take the plunge
Have a few drinks and activate that profile!
J9
From anow older wiser V to a younger delicious hot J9, a tiny word.
GAL for your life.
No R for a while.
This healing journey of personal growth and being the dad you will be is going to change you.
There is such a thing as the dating market place, and as you develop you will be going up market in your choices.
Join us in Surviving and watch what class truly is because often it's not on dating sites.
You deserve the best brave J. Up your game to get it.
Spend some time knowing what you want and don't want. Identify the values then go dating, dating not R.
It's not just your profile you need to do.
For what you think now will be different as you walk your path.
V
LOL....thanks V, so glad your back! Makes sense, it is nice to just be me without the FOG of EW hanging in the back of my head. I am still diving deep into my own personal development and feel that my work is not yet complete spiritually or emotionally. Not sure that it ever will be.....I definitely know that I will not settle this time around.
So it's time to move over to the other side..........
.I definitely know that I will not settle this time around.
Are you saying you settled the first time around?
Not when we first got MR, we were both very much in love with each other and would have never imagined this happening. Things really started to change after having children. She became more selfish and often times would tell me that she had no energy left to tend to my needs after taking care of the kids, herself, work, etc. I got the scraps on a good day.
I just accepted that, was willing to settle with what I got for our MR and the children. I'm not just talking about sex but with other activities as well.
I should have been the one to raise my concerns and if I was strong enough let her know how unhappy I was with the situation but I didn't.
So I didn't settle when we first got married but I found myself settling after our kids were born and she started to change.
Just live your present J9. Enjoy your Ds as you always do. You are an honourable man and just be proud of it. It is the walk of life now. Set the volume.
SOOOO frustrating! I could not post from my phone! I would right out a whole post and it wouldn't appear.
So, you got divorced like 3 days ago. Give yourself a second to breathe! If it doesn't feel right yet, it doesn't feel right.
There is an interesting mentality in this world that really differs from these boars. Most outside of DB will tell you to start dating as if that is moving on. That you have only moved on if you have another partner in your life. Most people cannot fathom being single.
I was single for a while after my divorce (still am, but that is a whole other story). I did date even before I was legally divorced, but nothing serious. It took me a good 2 years from separation, one year from divorce truly to be ready. I did not want another relationship for those 2 years. I missed companionship, and I had that in spurts, but I did not want to be a half of a whole yet. Aside from my daughter barely being a toddler, I loved being single! I loved answering to no one! I loved eating what I wanted, watching on TV what I wanted, not asking anyone if I could hang out with my friends, not feeling guilty when housework wasn't done, ect. Granted, my exH was a controlling A hole who needed everything his way and when it wasn't I paid for it. So I was barely 30 finally being myself! I learned so much and changed sooooo much in that time. I am so grateful for it.
So go slow. You'll know when you are ready to dip your toes in again. For now, you have yourself and 2 little girls to worry about. Enjoy it. Like neffer said, live in your present. There is no script, no rules, just what you feel inside. I imagine you are the guy who doesn't NEED to be half of a whole, you are whole on your own, and when you are ready, you can entertain it again.
Hey man! I am not on the other side so I have no real advice for you.
Almost everyone I know has been telling me that I need to step outside and date. And when so many people keep telling you that you start questioning yourself. But, thanks to these boards and counseling, I dial back everything and think about it for a while to understand it and then make a decision.
Some part of me wants to jump out and start dating, but I know that is because 1) I miss sex, and 2) I want some companionship.
But both of those reasons are due to me wanting someone to fill some type of void right now. It isn't authentic. Sure, I want both of those things but I want them because I want them for what they are, not to fill some empty space.
Anyways, moral of my story is what others have already said - just enjoy being by yourself and live in the present. You are indeed whole on your own and someone will come along to make the cup brimmeth over
Thanks guys, I think I will wait for a bit. Sit on it for a month or so. I miss the companionship and female touch but it is something that I don't need. Truthfully having alone time has been very rewarding to me especially after having the girls for a week. I wouldn't want it any other way but for that week you don't get a lot of down time.
I would much rather be alone reading, listening to my podcasts, watching my shows, etc. then interacting with ladies, staying up late which would cause me to miss my morning workouts. I know this will change but right now this is a priority for me. I also am not completely void of kids on my off week either. We have soccer games tonight, practice on Thursday and more games on Saturday so I still am heavily involved even on my off weeks.
I have seen a couple of girls at the gym that certainly look interesting but I always felt meeting someone at the gym was slightly difficult.
Any way, I am good. I feel like I have a good game plan for now.
Everything! I got nothing, no complaints other than the bursitis in my shoulder and a strained quad muscle from running. Off week for me from having the girls but I have been busy every night. Monday I met a buddy out for a few cocktails, Tuesday we had soccer games, Wed I met another buddy out for some drinks, last night my oldest had soccer practice but tonight I got nothing going on......just going to go home and relax.
I have been reading some of the posts on here but I feel like I am lacking emotional energy right now. Still listening to my podcasts (the one I listened to this morning was about if it was ok for men to cry), working out daily and continuing to work on my game...work is good and things are just really calm.
I still don't feel an overwhelming urge to date, it's on my radar but I don't feel s strong pull in that direction. Bought a couple of new shirts, my oldest's birthday is coming up on 5/1 so went shopping for some presents. The EW and I decided we would celebrate her birthday as a family, go out to eat with some close family friends.....then the EW is letting her have a sleepover with 2 of her besties at her apt.
So I have no complaints....just life happening. One thing that is on my radar is planning a man trip for this summer with myself and 4 or 5 of my closest buddies. Going to do some research on options but I think that would be really cool and something that I think would be fun to do annually. My two best friends I have known since Kindergarten and we still talk all the time.
The EW front is still status quo......the retirement funds get split today and I am still waiting for her to get her own medical insurance with her employer so I can remove her off of mine. My new house payment kicks in on 5/1 however she is not forcing the issue yet with me paying child support so right now nothing has changed financially. She still runs hot and cold with communication seemingly happening almost daily (I don't initiate unless necessary). There are times she says something and appears to be moving closer but then the next day she says something that lets me know she is still far away. It doesn't bother me any more just more of an observation.
As L indicated before it is friend zone stuff. I just try to be cordial and polite for the sake of the kids and avoiding an adversarial relationship. So far we have worked well together and I don't expect or hint at anything more.
I do find myself practicing being more assertive with her....i'll give an example. Our D is struggling with math and the EW texted me the other night telling me she was crying, how bad she felt for her and that we needed to get her into tutoring this summer. This is the second time she has mentioned it. Before I just would have brushed it off and she would continue to make these statements to me until the EW did something about it. I would have never picked up on it and proactively took care of the issue. However this time after the second comment it went off on my radar (a light bulb moment) and thought to myself she is making the comment, I agree with her (I don't want my D struggling either) so I called the place, got pricing and will take her for an evaluation next week.
I didn't do it for my EW but I thought it was a good learning experience for me to practice and I recognized it due to what I just went through how to better read through these subtle messages from the ladies. The next woman I am with in a R could do the same thing. So any way there ya go. After I did it I sent her an email with the pricing and she thanked me, telling me it was Awesome that I got this started and she felt paralyzed by it.
So anyway there ya go. No complaints life is good still working on myself spiritually, physically and emotionally. I will say that the shot at the title is coming soon
Nice Nice!!! Sounds like you're giving yourself enough time to transition to post-D life and also GALing. Btw, can you share some of the podcasts you're listening to. I need some new stuff.
I totally feel you about the hot and cold communications with W. Same here, but there's nothing to read into it. I just find it amusing now.
Good on being assertive and picking up on the math tutoring thing. It's amazing how they can't just come out and say it directly lol. Why drop subtle messages, I just don't get it.
Happy to hear that life is good. 2018 is on the upswing.
Forgot to add - I was going through doodler's threads the other day to get his back story, and found a couple of threads about dating that he had started. Check it out if you haven't already.
Sounds like you're giving yourself enough time to transition to post-D life and also GALing. Btw, can you share some of the podcasts you're listening to. I need some new stuff.
Right now I am just enjoying non-emotional quiet time. Early on you avoid alone time like the plague and then when you are alone all of your thoughts are consumed by your sitch. It is so enjoyable to be alone now, do whatever I want and not be consumed about my EW. So right now I am just enjoying that.
I am currently listening to "Man Up" on Spotify.
I totally feel you about the hot and cold communications with W. Same here, but there's nothing to read into it. I just find it amusing now.
Observing the WW is like being on Safari observing wild animals in their natural habitat.......truly amazing!
It's amazing how they can't just come out and say it directly lol. Why drop subtle messages, I just don't get it.
I never thought it until I dove deep into personal development but it is a sign of lacking confidence and lack of communication skills.
Happy to hear that life is good. 2018 is on the upswing.
Things are good, just calm and peaceful...one thing I am focusing on is developing my group of guys, my circle, my network and knowing moving forward that I need to maintain it.
It's hard for me because I am a very content person....my needs are very basic so I don't need a lot. Reaching out to other men, taking the initiate with other men is something that is outside of my comfort zone. I have learned though that it is important so I am having to stretch myself.
Hey J9 how about an update? How are you doing?
BH - Things are peaceful and calm.....not much going on. I had the girls last week so the week was filled with the school routine and evening soccer practices, Saturday we had games in the morning and then a birthday party to attend in the afternoon, yesterday was church, a math assessment for my oldest, soccer practice and then the girls had choir at night. The EW picked them up around 6:30 last night.
My youngest has soccer try outs tonight for a new team so I am going to attend, Wed night meeting my neighbor out after work, Thursday night my oldest has soccer practice and I am not sure what I am doing this weekend.
Tuesday night my oldest turns 9 so we are having a family birthday party at a local Italian restaurant. Some close family friends, me and the EW and our youngest.
Other than that I got nothing else.....still hitting the gym 6 days a week but haven't started dating yet. Part of me is interested but there is also a part of me that is not. So I am just doing my thing and just taking care of myself. Still heavily involved with my girls even on my off weeks as well (assistant coach on my oldests soccer team) so I keep myself pretty busy.
EW closes on her townhome tomorrow. I got a letter in the mail on Saturday indicating that my QDRO was accepted so the 401k split will begin and the EW still does not have her insurance set up yet with her employer so that is still in the works. My first new mortgage payment kicks in tomorrow and I have not yet started paying child support. EW has indicated that she is fine waiting until all the other financial stuff gets squared away.
We are very cordial and polite to one another. All conversation is surface level type stuff, finance related or coordinating stuff with the kids. Part of me is still trying to feel out how this whole co-parenting R is going to work so that part is a work in progress. She jokes around with me, will make references to jokes that we made with each other while MR. Sometimes I get the feeling she is trying to figure me out and determine what she can and can't say or do? It's hard to describe. I will joke back with her and in a weird sort of way at times it feels like she is building the attraction back. Sometimes I just think it's weird and I get this unspoken attraction vibe, mostly in the emails she sends. Again, hard to describe and I could be totally off base. Then other times she is very clear that we are not together any more. Not in a disrespectful manner just in general...for example, my D's birthday and presents coming from mommy and presents from daddy.
Anyway, with all that said. I just keep moving forward and fight off any urges I have to take the bait and inquire deeper when I get these vibes or feelings. I mean we are D'd you know??? I know I am not mentally out of the woods yet and I have still felt periods of sadness and loss. I know everyone said I was a perfect Dber but I am not a machine
. I am not concerned about myself, my life, finding happiness again, etc. There have been periods on anger as well but I process those and move on.
I guess to summarize I am doing great but still find myself processing the emotions of my D. The feelings are not overwhelming feelings just every now and then something will pop up if that makes sense.
Thank you J9 I for one look forward to your updates. I really admire your strength throughout this ordeal. I hope soon you find the happiness we are all looking for...
Just keep the light shining J9. Take care.
Thanks guys.....BH I am glad my updates are helpful and useful to you. Nef....the light is on.
So a bit of journaling.....hopefully it doesn't turn into rambling
We had my oldests birthday party last night and it was a really good time. Sat across the table from my EW and everything felt absolutely normal. She closed on her new townhome yesterday so I told her "congratulations" and I toasted the table. I poured her a glass of wine, we chatted, joked around essentially like nothing had changed. At one point she asked me if I wanted extra tomatoes on my salad (I hate tomatoes) and I laughed and said "come on, you know better than that". These are the types of jokes she makes. You also made some smart ass remark about something I said as well and I quickly shot her a look and looked at me and said "sorry".
Fast forward to this morning and she texts me at 6:30 am asking me a question about a gift that we got my D got. I was at the gym and didn't respond until 30 minutes later. She then called and asked if she could come by the house and pick up the ladder. I told her no problem, that I had just got out of the shower and I would throw a pair of shorts on and meet her in the garage.
So shirtless J9 helped her load up the ladder and would stood in the driveway for 10 minutes or so chatting about the party. We stood fairly close to each other and she didn't seem to be in a hurry to leave. She also didn't make a move or suggest anything and I wasn't about to break rank. She "Thanked me" for suggesting that she take the day of today so she could move some stuff in her new place. She never commented about how I looked, I didn't expect her to but I can tell you on the inside I felt very confident, strong and when she left I just thought to myself this is what you left, you are such a fool.
I have noticed that I am still the first person she calls for a question or when she needs something. I don't know if that is enabling or part of keeping the light on. At times I feel that we are not D'd even though we are. At times I feel like we are still together in this weird sort of dynamic she has her own place and I have mine but I feel like she would want to hang out, date without the stigma/pressure of being married.
I could be totally off base and I have not shared these feelings with anyone else but the board. I mean we interact almost every single day and it just doesn't seem normal for a couple that just got D'd. That I can sit across the table from my EW and feel absolutely normal, be in the same room and toast her on the purchase of her new townhome is hard for me to process.
Then I think about "friend zone" and maybe that is where I am at. Not by choice but it just happened. Is that a bad thing? If at some point in the future a new R is possible is friend zone something that needs to happen?
I know the majority of this is about my EW just please don't get the impression that I sit around and stew about this all day. I am happy, fully functioning, doing my thing and taking care of myself (physically, emotionally and spiritually) but I have noticed these thoughts creeping into my mind.
I just find it hard being the light house but yet keeping your distance and your guard up to not get sucked back in emotionally. It is definitely a dance that I am learning.
Hey J! Your zen updates are quite something.
I think the only thing that I would differ on doing is less interaction and not doing toasts and socializing with her. And i don't mean this out of spite, but just to get your own life really really separate from her.
I know you're doing this out of strength and this isn't some underhanded way of clinging to her, but I just wouldn't spend much time with her. I would still be upbeat and positive, and shirtless when possible lol.
You're doing amazing and if you're in the friend zone or not, at this point it doesn't matter.
In the last few days I've come to a place where I've honestly felt okay about dating. I don't think I am in a place to actually do it, but I don't feel icky about it. I think you're ahead of me and you should maybe dip your foot and see what happens. I think it's the last level in your personal journey.
I hope Acc and some others come by for this journal update. I'd like to know what they think.
Is that a bad thing? If at some point in the future a new R is possible is friend zone something that needs to happen?
Yes it's a bad thing if you want her as a lover and not a friend. Friends to lovers only happens in the movies dude.
She knows she can have you back at any minute. For things to change she has to fear you are gone forever.
How can you change that?
I know J9, you know that I know...
Yup, there you go! LH just said it in three lines. Boom!
I assume dating someone would make a pretty good impression. Outside of that I could pull way back on responding to her when she initiates texts or asks me questions. Just delaying my responses more than I have been. I guess I could also not let her borrow stuff, use the SUV so she can move some stuff, etc. Maybe that is being to accommodating which gives her the impression I am still around. I just didn't want to come across as being a jerk for no reason. Maybe I should have shown her more anger IDK. It's a similar situation your in with your W asking if she could stay longer in the house. I find myself making a lot of those type of decisions not to the same magnitude but smaller in nature.
For example, 15 minutes ago she sent me 5 pictures of the front of her townhome and asked me a question about replacing the light fixture. I responded and told her it looks nice and answered the question she asked but didn't make any other small talk. I get stuff like that a lot. Like this morning texting me at 6:30 with a question about a present we got our D. Her default is reaching out to me and I respond but have never told her to stop. Maybe I should.
We have a lot of discussion about the kids and informing one another about their events/coordinating shuttling them around. I have helped her during her weeks and she has done the same for me so I didn't think that was a big deal.
I still don't ask her any questions who, what, where, when why questions.....never anything about her personal life. If she is running late to a game or something she will text me to let me know but I never ask the reasons why.
Uggh...
J,
Dating would definitely change it. "W out of respect for the new woman I am dating please do not contact me unless it involves the children".
Even now. "W your constant contact with me is not allowing me to heal and move on from our failed marriage. Please do not contact me unless it involves the children".
Never date for the reason of "unfriendzoning" you wife.
Dating to make other's jealous IMHO is cruel to the other party involved.
Do what you want that doesn't involve someone else. not fair to those you might date.
Sure, you can date, but if your heart isn't in it and you TRULY haven't moved on from trying to make something happen, she will see it.
keep your responses to her brief and not-immediate. That's the best you can do right now. If you truly wish to keep it just to coparenting, then tell her just as much. If that is what you need to heal then you aren't being a d!ck. If you are playing games to unfriendzone yourself, well, that is a little d!cky to me.
Do what feels right to you.
Try this, blow off her texts for a bit, say two or three weeks go no contact. Just don't respond to them. If she comes scrambling back, then you need to set some barriers there and make it harder. You have to make the contrast from married to divorce stark and definite. That's how you heal and that's how they can think about it.
Exactly as Ginger says.
This is just cruddy on several grounds, it misleads a date.
It looks terrible in every way and basically won't work. Totally transparent as a tactic.
It will make you feel awful in your own eyes.
I want to say grow up and be an adult. So I am going to say it.
Instead use LRT.
V
Try this, blow off her texts for a bit, say two or three weeks go no contact. Just don't respond to them. If she comes scrambling back, then you need to set some barriers there and make it harder. You have to make the contrast from married to divorce stark and definite. That's how you heal and that's how they can think about it.
Go NC not to punish but to protect yourself.
Not as a vindictive punishing measure but as a dignified tactic to get peace and space.
V
I think if dating is not on the cards for you at the moment because it doesn't feel authentic and you're worried you might end up using someone for other needs, then don't do it until you're ready.
But, I would most definitely pull back from what I see are just husband type activities. If you need to vocalize that, then LH gave a great script for you to start with and customize it based on what you feel is comfortable for you. I sometimes worry that you're so focused on being strong and grounded and you are doing things for W because it doesn't faze you, you might be cutting yourself at the knees to fully heal from this.
Hang back. She wants an opinion on something for her new place, she can go to Home Depot and talk to someone about her options.
Thanks all, not ready to date yet and I agree with the general stance everyone has taken. I just used that as an example of what I could do to that would indicate I have moved on.
Once she gets settled in her Townhouse and all of the remaining financial and insurance is split there really should be no reason for us to have any additional communication outside of the kids.
I don't want to come across as being a D!ck so I will just pull back even more and keep my responses brief. I already feel that I am pretty dark as I never send her any pictures of me, reach out and just ask how she is doing or initiate anything other than stuff which is strictly business. She is the one that initiates more personal stuff or starts the joking around. I do play back with her though so I could probably stop that as well.
I don't think I need her to stop so I can heal but it doesn't help me move on completely when she tries to pull me back into her personal space whether it is intentional on her part or not. I think she does it out of habit as I have been her default for questions for 17 years.
I do agree I will have to say something if it just doesn't stop on it's own. Right after our D was final I did tell her that once she got into her Townhome and the girls were situated that I will not be the maintenance/question man as I will consider my mission accomplished and it is time for me to move forward. She just looked at me and didn't say a word.
J9
You know you are very special and I speak from experience in this, there is a phase which is just about to start which is called post traumatic growth.
Not all posters here experience this partly because they start to date or they piece. But I see all the markers that you will do so and I would like you to have that joy and shift.
When you are ready please Google post traumatic growth and look for youtube videos on Superbetter and Jane McGonigal (including the one on games which I watch almost every month). I joined the superbetter website (about recovery from trauma) and the experience I had in structuring my life and healing was phenomenal.
Personally, I sense you are ready to shift.
V
I have noticed that I am still the first person she calls for a question or when she needs something. I don't know if that is enabling or part of keeping the light on. At times I feel that we are not D'd even though we are. At times I feel like we are still together in this weird sort of dynamic she has her own place and I have mine but I feel like she would want to hang out, date without the stigma/pressure of being married.
I could be totally off base and I have not shared these feelings with anyone else but the board. I mean we interact almost every single day and it just doesn't seem normal for a couple that just got D'd. That I can sit across the table from my EW and feel absolutely normal, be in the same room and toast her on the purchase of her new townhome is hard for me to process.
There's nothing like D to remove all pressure from the WAS, I think both because they feel like they're finally out of the cage but also because the LBS finally quits pursuit after D. So sometimes the WAS feels more comfortable around the LBS, they don't feel like they need their guard up all the time. But don't let this confuse you, it does NOT mean she wants to date you or has any interest in recon. It just means that as far as she's concerned the "war" is over and you're establishing a truce.
Then I think about "friend zone" and maybe that is where I am at. Not by choice but it just happened. Is that a bad thing? If at some point in the future a new R is possible is friend zone something that needs to happen?
I think you need time to heal before going in the friend zone with her. I agree with the others that maybe what is best for you right now is to pull back and create some space. I'm not saying be cold/ rude/ indifferent but right now you should see and communicate with her as little as possible. Eventually when you heal, then maybe you can explore the friend zone more. I will say my ex and I are pretty friendly, I see her once or twice a week and get a text from her almost every day, mostly about S15 (assignments due and such) but sometimes more "friendly" stuff. She asks me for favors (carrying stuff into her attic, cutting branches off trees, fixing her dryer, etc.) Sometimes we'll have dinner together with the kids if the girls are in town, and we still do the kids birthdays together. The key is I can do all of this without it impacting me emotionally. It doesn't make me pine away for the "good old days" or make me wonder if she wants to get back together, or want to go out on a date with her or anything of the sort. I think that's what you need to strive for, if you can be in the friend zone without it affecting you then go for it. I don't think you're there yet though, it'll probably take a few months of recovery before you're ready for that.
V....I appreciate it, I will check them out tonight when I get home from work. I'll keep you posted.
AS...I just have to remember what you wrote, it doesn't mean a thing. She just called me 5 minutes ago to let me know she was buying a new cell phone and to ask if we should get a new ipad since they are $200 off. I didn't realize that this was a joint decision
We hung up and she texted me 5 min later to tell me she was getting 25% off her data plan because of where she worked. Geez.....
I think your right AS......I thought my mind was right for it but I don't think I am. I feel like it's a sports injury and I tried to play too soon and I re-injured myself. I just have to remind myself if I am not ready don't do it and if she reaches out to remind myself it doesn't mean a thing. I will practice pulling back way more and if I have to I will just be really honest with her about me needing more time and space.
I can be in her presence and not be impacted emotionally but when you add the phone calls/text messages on top of it I will admit it makes my mind spin a little bit.
J,
Next time you are together and alone and if she is close, you can just pull her close and see how she reacts to it, and if its good just plant one on her. If she rejects it dont take it personally, but it lets you know exactly where you stand. From my pov all the texts and calls seem like she wants to start something but wants you to make the first move. Not necessarily a relationship but just some lovin. You said that you were never able to find proof of another man, and if thats the case, that is a long time that she hasnt had any intimacy. Women love intimacy just as much as men. Important question is can you make the first move and not read too much into it...
Women always like a man who makes the first move.
J9,
You are getting lot's of great advice about the importance of pulling back and creating more boundaries right now. I'll be honest, her behavior and treating you like a BFF right now, really rubs me the wrong way. She just D'd you! This was not what you wanted! And she treats you like a buddy and even a H at times??? Either she is in complete denial about the impact that this has had on you or she is selfish and inconsiderate. I can't say because I don't know her.
I did like the input from V, AS and the others about protecting yourself right now. I can see your struggles with trying to find meaning in her behavior and I don't want that to hold you back. You are doing so great. I think the more you can go dark, detach, and allow yourself to process some anger and grief, the better off you will be in the long run. The feelings are in there, baby-- let em rip!
Maybe it's time for you to not think twice about her and how she sees you, and for you to 100% take care of J9 right now! If she can't take a hint and back off, it's okay to ask her to.
Blu
J9 - looks like you're about to unlock the next level in detachment and reaching zen
J9,
if her behavior puts your head to spin, tell her to stop that behavior. Put your own needs and well-being first. You are not there for her anymore. You are divorced. On your own separate paths. You are the father of your children, nothing more. Everything you do for her has to be related to the well-being of your children, not solely to her. You are not a bad person if you deny her as a friend.
Hi everyone, I appreciate all of the advice and concern.
V - Listed to the TEDS talk last night and added 7 minutes to my life although I think I lost count snapping my fingers. Any way I spent 6 minutes of that time meditating this morning so hopefully I used it wisely. I will check out the superbetter website and probably go back and listen to the video again. Interesting stuff for sure! Thanks!
I decided I am going to get through the next couple of weeks and then let her know that the constant communication can't continue unless it is around our children. That should get us through the time period of her getting access to her half our retirement funds, her settling into her new place and getting the insurance separated. After that there really should be nothing to talk about as the only remaining thing to happen is me sending her child support each month. I made a pact with myself at the gym this morning to not get swayed by these interactions and keep it professional and business like on my end. I feel better about it today and I think my desire to keep things amicable enabled me to let my guard down a little bit.
Blu - I have tried to summon up some anger but I have struggled with it. Early on I felt some but lately I have just been kinda numb, like nothing she does phases me any more.
My parents got D when I was real young and they always put me in the middle of it so much to the point where I had severe anxiety over situations where they would be with each other. I always felt like I had to take a side and could not say anything positive about one parent in front of another. It was bad, so bad that I told me Dad to not attend my high school graduation because I was so nervous about them being together.
I think what I went through as a child has impacted me in this situation because I don't want my girls to feel the same way I did. I want them to be 100% comfortable with mommy and daddy in the same room, comfortable talking about mommy to daddy and comfortable to talk about how they really feel. So I think in some ways I have put myself in this position based on experiences of Divorce.
When I sit back and really process where I am at and doing stuff for myself. It involves continuing on the path I am currently on physically, spiritually and emotionally but also getting myself back into the world of meeting other women. Life is short you know? All the personal growth and development is great and incredible but it would be nice to share it with someone you know? I think I am just scared.
J9
There are quite a few things about your reactions that have echoes of me. In particular the lack of anger. That's why I referred you to superbetter because of the incremental improvements that it encourages and a 'game' mindset. Seeing life as quests and healing as a process.
I had only very momentary glimpses of anger but plenty of black humour going on. It took a long time of being frustrated why I wasn't angry. Then it struck me, my predominant emotion was disgust not anger.
And yes my first choice is fear. A combination of the two is anxiety which is very different. Anxiety is a state of body. And it can be tackled. That was my rationale for suggesting superbetter, because you can grow through resolving the anxiety.
If you read my sitch you will see me now dating! And using IRL not OLD. OLD is too full of anxiety.
So with superbetter I started by doing my dancing and meetups. GAL. I lost weight and am getting fit etc. In increments because it doesn't trigger anxiety in me. FEAR is the emotion with disgust (inwards) gives anxiety.
You will share your life. You are a great and loving man and dad. Your stock is high, you will see it.
V
So tell me where is this anxiety?
In your body? Outside of it?
What is its colour, shape, does it Move?
Is it there all the time?
What happens to you when you have it?
You can say no V, I will not be offended.
V
I was 17 and in my senior year of high school when my parents split. My dad moved out, who I am super close to, my mother had a nervous breakdown (she was mentally ill) and I remember how awful that year was. I remember how anxiety ridden I was at my own high school graduation. My mom was on and off crying, even at my graduation from being around my father. I basically busted butt out of there and went to our project graduation. There was never a graduation party, I just spend the summer until I went away to college trying to stay out of my house, working many many hours. Then I went away to college, my mother reluctantly came to move me in, she cried most of the time because she was around my dad and I couldn't wait for them to leave.
I remember the anxiety and discomfort too, and I did not want that for my daughter. Which is why I am friendly and civil with my ex and his OWW. Why we sit together at school events, spend time with her all together. I wanted her to feel comfortable, because this is her whole life.
Now, I don't like my ex and he doesn't like me. But we can tolerate each other and having zero feelings for eachother helps everything be natural and relaxed. But what you mentioned is why I do what I do. Some don't know how I do it, but really, it's for our daughter and I don't want her to feel what I did.
Now, that being said, you can make it a situation where you can be fine around each other to make your kids feel comfortable, but you don't have to be besties. Like I said, my ex and I don't even like each other. We rarely see each other, but when we do, everything is fine and comfortable for our daughter. Same with his wife/affair partner.
This is new. You'll strike a balance, you will feel out what will work for you. But you have a tad bit of martyrdom going on. It's not intentional, but you don't have to completely sacrifice yourself. There is an in between, give yourself some time to figure out how to get there.
G - You hit the nail on the head, I do it for my girls but I don't want to be a martyr. I do need to find a balance but I am glad you understand. It sounds like our experiences were similar.
I hope once she gets settled in her new place and she gets her money as she will end up with a large sum of cash money in about a week. I hope at that time the balance will be clear. I feel as though I have supported her through this entire process. Even though she is the one that wanted this and filed it....I have led her through it. I can give you more examples than I can type.
V - Anxiety....yes I have some, most of my feelings are anxiety and sadness. It's hard to describe but I will do my best. I feel like I am an old man on my death bed, I have raised my family and I am laying there with them all around me. My D's are trying to comfort me and they are telling me it is ok to let go Daddy, you did your job it is time for you to let go and be relieved of your pain. Letting go so the final piece for me falls into place is hard for me to do.
I can detach, take care of myself and do everything that we talk about on this board.....but when I think about dating and what that means for my EW and the feeling that I truly let go that scares the $hit out of me and it where my anxiety comes from.
It's not that I think she is coming back but it's the role that I played for so long it has been hard for me to move past it.
What stopped me in my tracks is when you wrote that you generally feel 'numb' - I can 1000% relate with that. However, I felt that way a lot after BD, and I came to recognize that it was my way of just putting a stopgap on my emotions and how I was feeling. I just buried that $hit way down. And I did it automatically, not consciously. When I started unpacking that this week when all my emotions just came out, I realized that I had done that because I needed to have it together for my kids. Again, not putting my needs and feels on the table. I wonder if I had actually had good emotional regulation skills that I would've been in a better place by now by actually processing and grieving.
I am wondering if your numb reaction has a similar root where you're trying to hold it down for your girls, and putting your emotions six feet underground.
Also, I totally get your feelings of fear. There is so much gooddamm fear behind this and is complicated by feelings of trust. I thought I could trust myself with who I was and what I was doing because W was still with me. Now that that is not the case, can I trust myself when I think that I am better, stronger, more resilient? Or am I just saying that $hit to prop myself up? And will someone else find me out and leave me all over again? There is a huge fear of rejection and putting yourself out there.
Fear is just going to hold us back. This is where that personal growth really kicks in IMHO and that you are not relying on validation from the outside world - you have it within you. First step in that is trusting your feelings and your perceptions, and parsing the rah rah rah stuff from what's actually there.
I also watched the TED stuff on PTG, and I love that in one of them the speaker used Rumi's poem - Fear knocked on the door / Love answered / No one was there. BAM!
Truly letting go - yes, you are on the precipice of actually closing that chapter of your life. D is a paper, but how you feel is the full potato.
I think we have to move past believing that we are better people now, to actually trusting that we are.
It is all about time now J9. Just trying to live the present, healing and enjoying your Ds. Do not question your feelings, you are what you are man. Everytime I read you, J9, you make my eyes tear...I am at work now so it seems I should be looking at my microscope a little more...
Respect
(((J9)))
Well hell N...you made me cry again. Letting that last piece go is so unbelievably hard. I feel how I feel but I know I have to. Please don't let me take you from your work! Hopefully I am not the cause of your contaminated sample size.
M - The good days far outweigh the bad. I still get emotional but it is becoming way less frequent. I 100% know she doesn't want to be with me and I know 100% that I don't want to be with her and our old MR but that really letting go of her has been tough. I know I am in a better place and do believe the rah rah stuff...I am confident in that regard. The full potato is what I am struggling with right now. So while she did me a favor in cutting me off at the knee caps and not stringing me along the supporting her through this process is what I am trying to entangle myself from.
It's the letting go, it's the giving myself permission to let go, that I did everything in my power and now it's time. She just got her insurance squared away last week, she will get the money she took out of the 401 this week and moves into her townhome on 5/19. She will be set up in her permanent residence and will have cash money in the bank and a 5 yr old car with 60k miles on it that is 100% paid off and no debt. I supported her through this process and I feel like I will have the closure I need in 12 days.
Man - you did everything to make sure the D wasn't acrimonious, set her up with everything, and made sure she had a good landing pad, which will be complete in 12 days.
You know you did everything in your power to change the course of this ship. I know you know that. She decided not to turn back to an even better man and that's on her. Whatever emptiness she's dealing with, it's on her now and you cannot be the reason for any of it.
Do not worry. Looking at the microscope gives me the excuse to have irritated eyes...
Keep shining J9