Lost on how to save my marriage! 3

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2760162#Post2760162

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...187#Post2758187

My GAL tonight is a new comers brief at the church I just joined.

I got all my stones delivered today to do my outdoor fire pit. I also put a hold on the CC. Its Maxed out.

AS,

To be honest, I think there is a little conflict on the detaching piece. So I have a misunderstanding of when I should interact with my wife. When reading the detachment information, it says don't initiate conversations.

Then reading Sandi2 thread, it says, wife is not looking for love. So how do we loving detach and show that we care. If our S are to believe they are losing us, aren't they to believe that our love is fleeing as well?

Originally Posted By: joejoe1

AS,

To be honest, I think there is a little conflict on the detaching piece. So I have a misunderstanding of when I should interact with my wife. When reading the detachment information, it says don't initiate conversations.

Then reading Sandi2 thread, it says, wife is not looking for love. So how do we loving detach and show that we care. If our S are to believe they are losing us, aren't they to believe that our love is fleeing as well?

It just means don't be cold, rude or angry. You can detach while still being pleasant and happy. You're supposed to be showing her what she'll miss, and she's not going to miss a snippy, impatient, needy you. Right? Lovingly detach doesn't mean buy her flowers and whisper sweet nothings in her ear, because THAT is NOT detaching. It just means give her time and space but don't treat her like she has the plague. Read Sandi's rules again, those rules are 100% what lovingly detaching is all about. Remove all pressure.

Update,

Yesterday my kids had a boosterton at their school. So W and I went. It was a great time. While we were waiting on S6 start time, wife told me she needed to talk to me. She starts talking about her future plans about college and how she has decided to go to a different college since the one shes has been trying to get into has been messing her around( and they really have). She told me about what she wants out of life. I listened and validated. I never inserted my future into the convo. This is her first time in a long time talking to me about her future. She has stop talking about getting a job. (Which she was talking about getting one to get on her feet an move, maybe it's a plan I just havent heard anything about it).

At the boosterton, I was lively, energectic, and talkative to the people around me (180s for me). I felt normal for the first time in years. So this BD was the situation that woke me up. I needed help and BD gave me the wake up call I needed. BD still sucked, but I needed to fix myself either way.

Fast forward to last night. She is calling my name all night long, to do this and that. And asking can I certain things certain ways. I listened, acknowledged and went on my way. I haven't heard my name called by her much in months. Maybe she is just temp testing. We shall see. Tonight if she's cold, we know it was temp testing.

Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, �I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.�

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)

PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to not bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be."

IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -

We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures.
_________________________
_________________________

Sandi2,

Thanks for the detaching info.

I have been changing up my detaching tactic. I'm adding the love, and taking away so much of the coldness.

With that being said. Now my wife is calling, texting, and calling my name to come look at someting on the TV and do her favors. She has been coming next o me. But I know she hasn't come close to changing her mind. I feel she is doing these things as temp testing. I also feel like a friend while she does these things.

When she call and text she starts off talking about the kids and then go into her talkative self, before BD. She has been also telling me her plans. She hasn't told me her plans for months. Now I don't tell her mind. I see this as, now I'm telling you my plans, you should me yours. What do you all think?

I think I'm gauging this right, what do you'll think.

I almost messed up and bought her favorite M&Ms. But in that moment when I had them in my hand, I realized, that would be a mistake, because she would probably take it as if I think she is thinking about staying in the marriage. So I put them back.

Quote:

I have been changing up my detaching tactic. I'm adding the love, and taking away so much of the coldness.

How are you "adding love"?

Detaching is not showing anger, coldness, spite, etc. Please read below.

Quote:

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

Quote:

When she call and text she starts off talking about the kids and then go into her talkative self, before BD. She has been also telling me her plans. She hasn't told me her plans for months. Now I don't tell her mind. I see this as, now I'm telling you my plans, you should me yours. What do you all think?

You feel like a friend b/c she is using you like a friend. When you are detached, you will not have the need to analyze everything she says or does.

How do you respond to her texts and calls? Do you engage when she is talking about her plans?

Sandi2,

I'm detaching with love by, not being angry or snarky in our interactions. I let her live her life.

When responding to her text and calls I say ok good enjoy yourself. Sometimes she just keeps talking and I listen dont interject or reciprocal with what I have planned.

The part about me being a friend, what do u suggest I do. I living my life. I dont call, text or email her. I GAL all the time. And I dont follow her around the house. She is calling for me all over the house.

Are you living together? Sleeping in same bed?

Sandi2,

We are living together. We don't sleep in the same bed.

Last night I found out that she was trying to meet the OM in Nov. I told her her her things and get out. She refused. I know I cant force her to leave. I was hot. Then I told your she had to options, me or this OM. She sent him a message saying she is done. I don't believe it. I wanted her out.

She says she's confused. I believe her. She says I dont know what she's going through. I don't. She said if she something else going on in her life it would be easy to not deal with the OM. I asked her was she Sri getting a job then getting an apartment, she said that's option. Last month that was the plan.

She now also saying, that she's 80/20 on the marriage. Last month she was 95/5. The higher number is how much she was out.

Today I can't let this event knock me off course. Onward I go DBing.

Thanks for stopping by the thread

I see a lot of the questions you are asking here are things I also needed answers to. I hesitate to add comments because I'm so up and down depending on the day.

Keep the faith joe joe and and I wish you well as you work through this

yep.....omward until she tells you she is 100% committed to making it work...the rest is just noise.

Quote:

Then reading Sandi2 thread, it says, wife is not looking for love. So how do we loving detach and show that we care. If our S are to believe they are losing us, aren't they to believe that our love is fleeing as well?

The reason I said that the WW is not looking for love is b/c the first thing the LBH wants to do is show her how much he loves her. He begins doing things for her, thinking it will draw her closer. However, the things he does to demonstrate how much he loves her.....is pursuit. This is not what she wants.

She is not behaving in this manner b/c she is looking for love from her H. She did not drop the bomb b/c she thought it would wake him up and start working on the M. That was not her intent. Whether she dropped the bomb or not, she is done with the M.

If you've ever experienced having a clingy girlfriend who would not accept the fact that you wanted to break up with her..........and she continues to smother you and tries to convince you to give it another chance.. .........then that is similar to the WW and her H. (The H is like the clingy GF). The more the H attempts to demonstrate his love, the more he is turning her off.

This does not mean that the H should be hateful to her. It doesn't mean he should talk ugly and give her the cold shoulder. As long as she is acting out in her waywardness, he needs to love her quietly.........or as some say, from a distance.

Sandi,

I have read on other sites, that if you S is in an A then the LBS has to make themselves more attractive. Is that the same as making yourself a person only a fool would leave?

Also, is detaching a contributing factor to the LBS confidence and appeal to the WS?

I think they are all kind of interwined with each other but I would detaching is about protecting yourself emtionally while GALing is about getting your confidence back.

For me hitting the gym, getting out, buying new clothes, etc has all helped with my confidence. Then when you get more confident your W no longer has control of your emotions and feelings which is also helped by detaching.

JoeJoe, any progress on the meetup? Am I the only one who can do next weekend?

Holding,

I can do a meetup tread on here. Do you think that's a good idea to do a meetup thread for this weekend. But I don't mind just meeting up with you if nobody else can.

I don't think we need a separate thread for it. I know AnotherStander was interested but he said he's not available for now. So that just leaves TxHubby I think?

Holding,

Do you know how to reach to TXHubby? When would you be available?

The only way to reach him is just hope he stops by. I'm not sure I've seen him lately. PAGING TXHUBBY.

This coming up weekend (23 and 24) would be the best for me. But I might be able to do other weekends.

If it's just the 2 of us, then I'm not sure where. But if someone else joins up, then we need to try to find a central location. It sounded like San Antonio would have been the best.

Holding,

SA is cool for me. If thats cool for you. I can get a place and address to meet up. I Will tell you what I'm wearing so we can connect.

I woke up this morning and realized, I'm not detached like I won't to be. I'm so anal about this while situation. I think about the M and R all day. I hate it. I know the best way to save my marriage is to detach properly. I'm so worried about her reactions to what I'm doing that I don't go with the flow. I'm over analyzing too much.

Any advice on how to get to the point of not thinking about the M and R all day. I GAL.

The other problem is we live together. And she talks to me but I'm so reheated rehearsed when I talk to her, I seem fake.

What have others done to overcome this?

Quote:

Any advice on how to get to the point of not thinking about the M and R all day. I GAL.

No, unfortunately it is a process. GAL helps but it takes time and distance. I can imagine that it would even harder to do when your going through an in-house separation. IMO it probably takes close to a year to completely detach, it's not a light switch.

Quote:

The other problem is we live together. And she talks to me but I'm so reheated rehearsed when I talk to her, I seem fake.

I think as you continue down the path it will seem less fake and become more comfortable. I used to analyze every thing I said and my W said. At the end of the day it is exhausting and a waste of energy. When my W first moved out I hated going to kid exchange and got nervous every time I saw her. I do not get those same emotions. To me it boils down to time, distance, GAL and re-building your self-confidence.

Quote:

Sandi,

I have read on other sites, that if you S is in an A then the LBS has to make themselves more attractive. Is that the same as making yourself a person only a fool would leave?

Also, is detaching a contributing factor to the LBS confidence and appeal to the WS?

Becoming more attractive is important, but here's the thing.........it is more than just the physical appearance and dressing better. Have you ever seen a beautiful woman married to a man that was not exactly Hollywood material? And, many very handsome men marry a woman that wouldn't win beauty pageants. So, what is it that draws them to each other? There was something that wasn't just physical looks, but something deeper. They had a chemistry.

My point is that becoming more attractive must go deeper than just physical appearance. It is what she sees in your manliness.There needs to be chemistry felt. Women are attracted to what they see in his manliness. She respects a H who won't take her b.s., and he won't put up with her crap behavior. There is no way in hades he would tolerate disrespect, betrayal, and cheating from his W. He doesn't beg & plead with a cheating W. He drops her like a hot potato if she dares to bring another man into the picture. Yes, he still loves her, but she is not attracted to his love right now b/c she has changed. Rather than showing her how much he loves her by sticking it out, showing her he's the bigger person, trying to prove how well he has improved, etc., ..........he needs to let his manly character shine, and stop pursuing her, and let her go. When she sees this action, it causes her attention for OM to be distracted and focus on why her H isn't interested in her anymore.......and she becomes very inquisitive about his GAL activities. I realize this may make no sense to you, but what you think or feel you should do right now.......is probably the opposite of what works with a WW. I can't express everything in one post, but I do have some threads about the WW.

Women are drawn to the "cool" guy..........not a shumk, a wuss, an "all talk and no action" guy, not a "know it all", not a man she sees as being weak. This is very important when dealing with a WW..........if you show weakness when interacting with her, it really turns her off. She admires the guy who has self confidence.......but isn't a show-off. He has inner strength and it shows by the way he handles himself in situations......and especially when dealing with unpleasant people, including her. She respects the man who will stand up to her and not kiss her a$$. Now this may sound totally opposite of what some men had in mind about attracting a woman. Sure, women love the charm, attention, and romance........but right now I am trying to give you a picture of the natural qualities that causes attraction.........including a WW.

There has to be chemistry. That's what attracts her to you. So, let me name off a couple of things that absolutely kills chemistry in a MR, and I am speaking in cases of no type of abusive behavior. IMHO, a passive man is the number one thing that kills it for a woman. When you start taking a back seat in the day-to-day stuff. You leave most things up to her, b/c you think it's easier to just go along with whatever she says. Then, it's not long until she is calling all the shots and you are trying to please her......thinking it will put her into a better mood. Your daily life is pretty much based on what kind of mood your W is having that day. And, the more you cater to her, try to appease her, etc.......the more she seems to be moody. It's like she has this anger just below the surface......but you don't know why. She begins doing little things that are disrespectful to you, but you tell yourself not to make a big deal out of it and to be the bigger person, and so you don't do anything about it. She ups the level of disrespect, and as time passes she resents you and has lost respect b/c you've stopped being the man who attracted her way back at the beginning.

A lot of people these days talk about marrying their best friend. Whatever........but frankly, I think many couples find themselves as roommates b/c they just have a friendship and it killed the chemistry. Maybe it's the friendship mentality, instead of having a lover's mentally. When you've you been M for a few years, you learn you have to work at maintaining chemistry to keep that attraction between the two of you. Getting too comfortable can lead to laziness.......and the spark is gone. Women need that spark to nourish their feminin soul, and when she is starved long enough..........she will often times try to find nourishment from other sources. She may turn to reading romance novels, become obsessed about a celebrity, have an imaginary affair, have an emotional affair, or a physical affair. This is a woman who is searching for a man who causes sparks in her. Her MR is lacking that chemistry and she feels empty.

So, to answer your question about being a man only a fool would leave.......absolutely. However, the problem is that men's idea of what that looks like......is far from what attracts the woman. In other words, many H's first action to save his M is to start doing more work around the house. Okay, but just understand that is not what causes sparks. She may appreciate it, but most WW's expect it.....so there you go. In her mind, she's thinking, "Well, it's about time"! You see, her mindset has changed and she's not the girl you married. So, go ahead and work yourself to the bone, take care of the kids, cook the meals and clean..........but it will do nothing to attract her to your manliness. She needs to see that manliness in you. And I'm not saying it's not manly to do these things. I'm telling you from the view point of a wayward mindset that she will take advantage of anything you try to do for her.......be it housework, or whatever. No sparks there. She could have someone else to do these things.......but it would not cause her to be sexually attracted.

Therefore, I say to improve your manliness. And I am saying this as if I am talking to all the men here, and not just personalizing you. I talk a lot about the mindset of the wayward wife, and some people may think it doesn't matter.......but if you are informed about what you are dealing with in her.....why wouldn't it matter? It would give you a better insight to how she operates, responds, etc. I can promise you her mindset has changed and she has changed. The old ways you might have used to smooth some situation will not work with her now.

Does any of this make sense to you?

JoeJoe, you've been blessed with something I like to call the "Sandi Bomb". I hope you take it to heart.

Sandi,

It does make sense somewhat. To me it almost sounds like, dump her altogether.

Early on Sunday morning. I had, had enough, I told her get her things and get out. She fought against it. Then I told her she had two choices, stop talking him and stay or you can leave and do what you want. She sent him a message and stayed. From what I can see now, she has not contacted him. Will it stay that way I dont know.

When you talk about manliness, what does the entail other than not taking her mess?

Is detaching a part of manliness?

Sandi, I love what you tell me, the application is the problem.

Sandi,

I know you can't give a definite answer about what each person should do. It seems to me that you are trying to give me tools to help me get my respect and show my wife that I'm manly. A lot of times, the problem with tools is, if you never used them before you need a lesson, someone to show you how they are to be applied.

I guess what I'm asking is, if really the correct answer for my and other's situation, just detaching or do we no matter what have to eventually drop the D papers. I understanding our wives have to feel like they are losing us, but to me, and for my situation, it seems to me when I was detaching, it gave my wife my room and time to talk to the OM. Should I even care if she talks to him, because, your words were,

"She respects a H who won't take her b.s., and he won't put up with her crap behavior. There is no way in hades he would tolerate disrespect, betrayal, and cheating from his W. He doesn't beg & plead with a cheating W. He drops her like a hot potato if she dares to bring another man into the picture."

You say detach and get her inquistive, when doing that, is the worry ever about what she is doing with the OM? Or, does he not even care and the LBS go on with his life.

Pls provide feedback.

Joe,

That has always been the part that confuses me. We're supposed to detach and GAL, while W carries on this A. But if we catch her messing with OM do we call her out on it or simply ignore it? Being manlyvwould have us address the issue. But detaching would have us not worry about it due to the father are no longer concerned with W actions. This is where it gets confusing. Especially if there is an in house separation where all this is happening in front of you.

Tread,

I'm waiting on Sandi, beacuse I'm totally confused on the application of these entities. I would love some clarification.

Smoke signal going up for Sandi or another expert.

Looking for an expert to answer my above questions.

I will just give you some reading material to review until someone chimes in. These are just a few of my favorites that I have booked marked that help me gain a lot of perspective.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2030222&page=1

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2012722&page=1

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2069082&page=1

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...75744#Post75744

Originally Posted By: joejoe1

"She respects a H who won't take her b.s., and he won't put up with her crap behavior. There is no way in hades he would tolerate disrespect, betrayal, and cheating from his W. He doesn't beg & plead with a cheating W. He drops her like a hot potato if she dares to bring another man into the picture."

I think she is pretty clear with the paragraph above. What don't you understand?

LH19,

Does Sandi statement mean I have to drop D papers? That's what drop her like a hot potato means to me.

J9,

Can you give me the links to Gucci method and the other method talked about on the first thread?

Quote:

Does Sandi statement mean I have to drop D papers? That's what drop her like a hot potato means to me.

Joe...has your W experienced any sort of loss since you discovered OM? What is she not getting from you that she was before? Most of what I have read tells me that the LBS has to take some sort of pro-active action to let the WW know they are not messing around.

For me my W has already moved out, for the most part is on her own financially, she is taking care of the kids by herself so the only pro-active action I could take at this point in time would be to file for D myself (outside of working on myself).

I have read where some WW have woke up when the husband exposed the affair, some woke up when he packed her bags and kicked her out, some woke up when the LBS served the papers etc. I don't know that I have read a sitch where the LBS just GAL'd, detached, etc. and the WW just chose to come back. I am sure the stories are out there but when OM is involved I don't think I have ran across 1.

The general thought though is that you file for D when you want it, do not use it as a method to get them back.

As far as the links go, right click on the posters name and sort by view posts and you can read through when they have written.

I only share to give you different perspectives on things, just know that some folks and their posts might be more controversial than others. I just share so you can be exposed to all the advice that has been giving on this site throughout the years.

JoeJoe, is this weekend still good for you? I'm free on Saturday if you want to meet up in SA. Early afternoon or evening would probably be best for me. Looks like it'll be just you and me unless TxHubby pops in.

Holding,

Saturday is good for me. Saturday evening is fine. I'm fine with just you and I

J9,

This Saturday. I told her to get her sh@t and get out. She refused to leave. I told her she had two choices, stop talking to him and stay or keep talking to him and leave.

She sent him a message right in front of me.

The next day she told me she was happy I caught what she was doing, so she can now focus on what she needs too. I told her and meant it and she could tell. I wanted her out. She fought leaving.

From what I can tell so far she hasn't talk to him since.

I'm prepared to start the D process if need be.

Also, I see doing the reading that each person that has woken up their WS was after D papers was dropped.

Ok, so now that you gave her a choice and she choose to stay and stop talking to him where do you currently stand? Is she willing to work on the MR and be 100% committed?

J9,

She says she still feels the same about me. In the same voice, she says she dont know what she wants. To be honest she really is having a hard to committing to anything at the moment.

J9,

Is there any way you can post the Gucci and puppy method for me if you know exactly where they are?

I think It is generally Dobson's tough love approach on steroids....I don't have a specific link (that share their specific methods) I have just added them to my watch lists along with Sandi, TX, AS, LH and a few others so I can go back and read their old posts to help me gain a better perspective on mine.

Hey Joejoe1

I don't know if this is any use - some days I think I've cracked it, other days that I've finally lost it, but I had a realisation yesterday which may be of some use.

BTW, I totally relate to the feeling of confusion and not knowing what to do. My realisation yesterday has helped with this somewhat.

My realisation kind of dovetails with Sandi's very sage advice and what everyone else tells you here - be the spouse a fool would leave, work on yourself (GAL) etc. I knew all of this but because of the anger I felt at my WH's betrayal I couldn't be relaxed and my amazing self in front of him. My amazing self is evident with my colleagues, friends, the check-out clerk at the supermarket... but just not to my WH. Which was incredibly frustrating to me.

Yesterday I realised it all just boils down to this simple principle - you have to seduce your WW back to you (if you still want her back). That's all. How would you get a woman to fall in love with you if you thought she wasn't feeling you? That's what you have to do now.

I'm not saying you CAN make anyone fall in love with you - otherwise none of us would be here - but you can make yourself more attractive, more loveable. So when you ask - what is it I should do - just think to yourself - is this going to seduce my WW or repel her?

My opinion is that once she's invested again, emotionally connected, then you're on steadier ground to talk about commitment and MR etc. Until you've got her back on your side, I think any kind of R talk is just going to make you more unattractive to her. Think Don Juan - what's the master lover going to be doing here? He's not stressing, he's cool, he can take it or leave it if a woman walks way because he knows another one will be around soon.

2016sux,

Me suducing my wife is not going to happen. I understand your point. Act in a way, that is going to draw her near and not in a way to push her away.

Im a very attractive man. I'm 6'3 215 pounds. Getting another woman isn't a problem. Losing my family and W is at the moment. When I start detaching a few weeks ago my wife thought I already had another woman.

But I also realized I was detaching in a jerk way and not a loving way. Now I'm detaching better. I'm not an expert yet, but hopefully it comes soon.

I have also open myself to all avenues of outcomes. It's going to be hard but I just want to do what's right for my Sitch and we all do.

2016sux,

I also know she is not the only person to blame for the way our marriage is at the moment.

I know I hurt her to her core. Ahe told me I broke her. Dam, what a comment to make to a H. I broke her, that's a horrible to state to be in for her.

Hey Joejoe1

Yes, I ran into the same problem - detaching but not in a loving way. Loving detachment is HARD.

Being physically attractive is not the same as being emotionally, psychologically attractive. It's vibe. My husband's OW is a total dog. Even my MIL said 'Oh noooo...' when I asked her if she thought OW was pretty. But you wouldn't know because she's got my WH wrapped around her ugly little finger. It's about how they make the WS feel. If you're not being loving in your detachment, she's going to feel that vibe.

Yesterday I tried this for the first time with WH - he was babbling on about something about our son, and I just looked at him sort of in the eyes - I find it hard to look him in the eye because I have strong feelings of aversion towards him still, so I settle for the bridge of his nose - a useful tip a body language expert gave me years ago - and kept thinking to myself "I love you". I feel it softened my 'energy' towards him. It may have worked because he texted me today to ask me about our son - doesn't bother usually.

Have you heard about the Law of Attraction? A lot of new age psycho babble if its not your thing, but it basically works on the premise that what you think and feel, you will generate and people can sense. What I find so fascinating about it is that its principles can be found in the Bible, which is, I am finding for myself, an ultimate source of ancient wisdom on relationships.

BTW my WH blames me for breaking him too. You're not alone here.

I haven't read your sitch fully because I tend to look at ones with WH only, but will have a read later.

JoeJoe, when and where do you want to meet on Saturday? It's your home turf, so I'll let you pick.

Any recommendations for lodgings?

Holding,

What kind of accommodations do you like. Downtown has a bunch of hotels. There are also a bunch of hotels off of the loop 410.

We can meet at the Hard Rock downtown around 4.

2016sux,

I looked up and watched videos on giving out a positive vibe and whatever vibe you give off you get back.

I don't interact with my W in a negative way at all. I look her in the eyes most of the time in talk to her. She is communicating more than a few weeks ago.

But I can still tell she has a wall up. And she still is holding on too pain.

I think you have a point about finding a way to release more positive energy.

I'm going to work on that too.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1

Holding,

What kind of accommodations do you like. Downtown has a bunch of hotels. There are also a bunch of hotels off of the loop 410.

We can meet at the Hard Rock downtown around 4.

I'm looking for something cheap

. I'll find something. Thanks.

Hard Rock at 4 confirmed. I'll get back to you tomorrow on how you can ID me.

Holding,

Cool.

Last night was a bit of a hum dinger. I really got fed up. I was ready to throw in the towel. I got out some tears and when my wife was to return home and was going to have a conversation with her about ending it all.

She told me she was tired of being with kids all day, especially our S1, because it was draining her. She was upset about this all day.

She told me I always have this and that going on. This confuses the hell out of me. Because she told me she didn't need my help a while back, she told me she needed space. I also have been helping out a lot more around the house.

So she left the house mad last night. While she was out she called me and asked me questions and was talking to me, this confused me. I just took it for what it was worth.

While she was at the store she called me and asked me did I want Popsicle, she came home and we watched it together.

My wife is very confused about her life and what she wants to do with it. She wants to go back to school, but don't push to get enrolled. She was looking for a job to move out and get her own apartment, she has stop looking. She wanted to work out to lose weight, she has barely went since BD. She wants to become a vegan. She's trying to do all these things, but with very little follow thru.

I have been encouraging her thru all of this. I'm just at my wits end of what to do in this situation other than let her go free. That seems a little messed up to me because, she is so down, but I know I can't help her.

The only real motivation she seems to have is to talk to this OM.

Quote:

My wife is very confused about her life and what she wants to do with it. She wants to go back to school, but don't push to get enrolled. She was looking for a job to move out and get her own apartment, she has stop looking. She wanted to work out to lose weight, she has barely went since BD. She wants to become a vegan. She's trying to do all these things, but with very little follow thru.

JJ.....welcome to the club. I don't have an answer for you other than they have to go on their journey. Many times they look for outside reasons for why they are not happy instead of looking inside themselves. Truthfully you probably haven't done anything wrong outside of maybe getting lazy so don't beat yourself up too much. The OM is more than likely an escape from her reality and a symptom of something she thinks is going to make her happy.

My W has actually done many things throughout the years to find herself and she was a vegan for over 10

. In the end she has always been searching for what makes her happy and at this time moving out on her own seems to be the answer for her. Truthfully I don't think she will ever find it unless she takes a look in the mirror.

You just have to let them go, set them free and take care of yourself.

Joe,

Your W sounds like mine in that perspective. She acted like she couldn't do certain things around me. When in truth my W has no follow through. W is very intelligent, but just stops or never really gets started. She was bragging to her sister a few months back on how 2017 was her best year ever. But other than the A and cheating. She has accomplished nothing. She has actually gained a lot more weight.

OM is clearly her living a fantasy in her own words. But the reality is that she about to find out that with me out if the picture she still isn't accomplishing anything. While I have done so much this year without her. Eventually she'll realize that spreading her legs was her only goal. Hell she couldn't even get her own place. W got a 2 bedroom with her sister. So she has not even accomplished the goal of truly being on her own.

JoeJoe, sorry to hear about your troubles last night. Try not to get into mind reading with W. Trying to figure out her confusion will only make it harder for you.

Also, I'll be in a red polo shirt tomorrow. I saw in another thread you posted your height. You're considerably taller than me.

Holding,

Cool, I will have on a Purple LSU shirt. Go Tigers.

Hey Jojo, I'm going to have to cancel. I had car troubles and had to turn back. So sorry

Holding,

That's fine.

Holding,

Next time.

Joe Joe, I can maybe meet tonight at around 9. Would that work for you?

I'm with the boys now. When is the next time u are free?

I can do sometime tomorrow- 12 to 4. After 5 would be to late.

Other than that, we'll have to shoot for another weekend. What do you think?

We can meet tomorrow at 1:30 at Bubbas 33, off of Pat Booker Rd.

Great! Blue Polo shirt. See you then.

My GAL today was skydiving. It was awesome. Free falling to the Earth was a great escape.

I got home and W seemed pissed. I felt so good I kept on smiling. She asked why keep smiling at me. It's creepy. I just looked at her and kept on smiling. She did make some chicken adobo. It was off the chain.

Me and holding had our date reschedule until tomorrow.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1

My GAL today was skydiving. It was awesome. Free falling to the Earth was a great escape.

I went skydiving for my 50th and did it again later. I wish I had done the airborne course I was FINALLY selected for back in the day. But turns out they don't let pregnant lawyers do it. To be fair, once I knew d20 was coming, it did lack a certain appeal.

But I'll skydive again for sure. Even though it is an AWESOME experience, I think the GAL you will most benefit from is when you meet new people or do a new activity b/c it's a more lasting distraction.

At some point, the "filler distractions" will actually be fulfilling.

You are creating a new life that your w may, or may not wish to be a part of.

I got home and W seemed pissed. I felt so good I kept on smiling. She asked why keep smiling at me. It's creepy.

don't get over the top or look forced. You can say you "just had an amazing experience" and leave it at that.

Me and holding had our date reschedule until tomorrow.

Good on you.

PS

what are your 180's? They are to undermine her negative images of you - if there is any validity.

Say, for instance, that she complained you are "always late." So you become "MR PUNCTUAL" and you arrive on time or early, for everything.

So you just negated some of her "negative data" about you. That may confuse her or she will start to doubt her negative views. I'm sure there are deeper issues but you get the point.

Working on those, (that YOU want to work on) will make you a better man, regardless.

PS

Joe are you active duty? If so, see a JAG Lawyer b/c it's free and knowledge is power.

No, I would not tell your w. It's not a trump card to throw in her face, it's for Your peace of mind.

25,

I'm active duty. Been in just over 16 years. Almost at retirement.

My 180s, have been helping out around the house and with the boys.

The other day she said she notice my changes, but I'm all over the place. She said I'm doing a lot better with the boys.

I have a question, she Saudi didnt provide her security, how do I do that better, or get back at being her security provider. I'm doing more of the things she said she didnt like doing as a woman. Like taking the boys to the barber shop.

I deployed twice since we been married and she took on all thise roles and I didnt take them back when I came home.

Also, she's now saying if we stay together instead of she's done. How do I interpret that?

Gabbed us a table. Blue Polo.

(God, this is an inefficient way to meet someone

)

Holding,

It is inefficient, but it was a blessing to meetup with you today.

Thanks for the great convo..I hope we get more our next meetup.

Hey JoeJoe, it was great meeting with you! You have a good head on your shoulders and a very positive attitude (probably a lot more positive that I've been able to muster). So keep at it, man!

Holding,

It was great to see you as well. I can see some hurt in you. Your W don't have a right to your happiness. You are a great man. And I can tell from one meeting with you.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1

25,

I'm active duty. Been in just over 16 years. Almost at retirement.

My 180s, have been helping out around the house and with the boys.

As great as these^^ are, and they are, are they new behaviors? How is your r with the boys?

*Do not underestimate the value or how moved women are, by the loving interactions between their children and their fathers.

The other day she said she notice my changes, but I'm all over the place. She said I'm doing a lot better with the boys.

So, you mean you are not consistent? The "math" of this is

consistent change + sufficient time = change to be believed.

Don't ask her if she's noticed the changes. Do not ask her if she feels different now.

IF IF IF she notices them AND IF she tells you, you can say "oh, well I wanted to do that & I'm glad I am now. I enjoy them a lot."

Nothing about HER reaction. Otherwise it's obviously a tactic and not an authentic change in you. Tactics do not last and they do not reveal real change.

I have a question, she Saudi didnt provide her security, how do I do that better, or get back at being her security provider.

okay this may be more than you want4ed to know but I think it may help explain something.

In a very detailed survey, people reported 2 things that were most important to them in a spouse.

In men, the 2 most important things in a spouse were

1) feeling attracted to their wife

and 2) peace

- usually interpreted as peace IN the home, no nagging or repeated complaining.

Women said the 2 most important things to them were

1: Security, meaning that they felt physically & emotionally & Financially safer with their husbands

- some believe that this stemmed from our hunting/gathering communities. There, women & children needed protection from predators, especially when they are caring for children

- So, think about the cave life. If a woman was caring for a baby or carrying a child and the man goes out of the cave to hunt or gather,

she needs to know that he will bring home food,

and if a sabertooth tiger attacks the cave, her h will protect them. - And she will back him up!

The h needs to know she will keep the fire going and the child safe. (Like peace in the home.)

Financially speaking, you can see how a woman could feel insecure when her partner is chronically unemployed, and if she is the bread winner AND the nurturer, It's hard to maintain that for long.

AND

2)

Secondly, Wives reported fidelity from their husbands, as being a priority. The sexual commitment of this is obvious.

But another aspect of fidelity is plain old loyalty. Bad mouthing them to anyone, or complaining to family members or friends, is very undermining.

Hope this^^ helps.

I'm doing more of the things she said she didnt like doing as a woman. Like taking the boys to the barber shop.

I deployed twice since we been married and she took on all thise roles and I didnt take them back when I came home.

Also, she's now saying if we stay together instead of she's done. How do I interpret that?

You interpret that as meaning she may be second guessing her decisions. There are no guarantees but it's not a bad sign, and is a baby step. Most DB coaches would say "baby steps are the best to hope for", mostly b/c they are more trusted than dramatic changes, which tend not to last.

Make sense?

If you are making choices you wanted to make anyhow, why change course?

25,

Helping out with the boys and around the house is a def 180. My wife told me after BD that the relationship I have with our boys are a complete turn off for her. I have worked really hard to improve my son and I relationship. Being in the military I have been gone way too much. My wife hates that the boys relied on her and only her and never came to me for nothing. So I have also worked to tell my boys they can come to me for anything.

I never asked her did she see my changes. She told me that on her own accord.

Me being in the military, I really got too reliant on my wife to take care of our home and boys.

My wife told me I embarrassed her in public, I didn't help out with the boys, I embarrassed her in front her father, I allowed her to do too many of the manly things. I didn't value her, I took her for granted, and I broke her. (I was an [censored]/Jerk). With my wife, and I was very impatient with my wife and boys. I have worked very hard on changing my impatient ways. And now my boys are coming to me and I don't get upset with the small things.

I'm also going to get tested for PTSD. I slept on my couch by myself for years because I didn't want My Wife to see me venerable, waking up on cold sweats and bad dreams. I didn't allow her in that world before BD.

I hope they are baby steps. I will continue walking my path.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1

25,

Helping out with the boys and around the house is a def 180. My wife told me after BD that the relationship I have with our boys are a complete turn off for her. I have worked really hard to improve my son and I relationship. Being in the military I have been gone way too much.

as a veteran myself, and the wife of one, I don't think there's any doubt that you were gone too much. I get it, and we served and that is that. But it's extremely easy to assume our spouses "knew" we were in the military & THEREFORE they have no right to want their needs and love languages ever filled.

My wife hates that the boys relied on her and only her and never came to me for nothing. So I have also worked to tell my boys they can come to me for anything.

Yay, good improvement, !!

so now maybe you can simply invite them rather than putting the onus on them, and do what they are interested in, too. My h's not seen our kids in a year. No excuses. And when he does contact them, which I hope happens, I'd bet that he will invite them to join him on something HE enjoys doing.

That^^ is better than nothing, but geez, he won't get to know them. HE's inviting them to get to know him, you know?

Just food for thought.

I never asked her did she see my changes. She told me that on her own accord.

excellent

Me being in the military, I really got too reliant on my wife to take care of our home and boys.

yes, she was the touchstone for you to do what you do. Not saying you are like my h, okay? But in my marriage, eventually it pretty much became all about how to support h and I did that, a lot. We "fit into" HIS world, rather than the reverse.

Now it seems h regrets that OR he misses the kids not looking up at him and not delight in his presence. Frankly, he created a lot of alienation in the family b/c he was gone a lot.

Then when he sensed the alienation he created, he resented it, in some ways he resented them (or blames me for the wedge he drove between them). I can say in all fairness, he's just wrong on this. I did a lot of intense work to keep the kids close to them, but at some point they saw reality before I did.

My wife told me I embarrassed her in public,

ouch. I'm sorry. Do you recall the event?

I didn't help out with the boys, I embarrassed her in front her father, I allowed her to do too many of the manly things. I didn't value her, I took her for granted, and I broke her. (I was an [censored]/Jerk). With my wife, and I was very impatient with my wife and boys. I have worked very hard on changing my impatient ways. And now my boys are coming to me and I don't get upset with the small things.

this ^^ is a lot to work with, so how are you approaching it?

I'm also going to get tested for PTSD. I slept on my couch by myself for years because I didn't want My Wife to see me venerable, waking up on cold sweats and bad dreams. I didn't allow her in that world before BD.

how are you doing that, now? Are you seeing a professional? ( I ask b/c I don't know people who have the tools to address this.)

I hope they are baby steps. I will continue walking my path.

baby steps are still steps. The "math" of this is

consistent change + sufficient time = change that can be believed (and be last)

*and be lasting*

25,

I'm going to make an appointment to get seen about PTSD this up and coming week.

Myvwife felt Exactly like your husband made you and your children feel. I was making them fit in my world and never try to fit in theirs.

It was quite a few events where I embarrassed her. The worst one was in front of her father, where intold her she needs to get a job. It was a horrible moment.

I have been a lot more patient. I have been a lot more understanding as well.

She really wants me to feel what she had to go through the last seven years she keeps telling me this.

She has been opening a lot more lately. But I must be honest. I don't trust her. She hasnt shown me anything that she is talking to the OM. But I have a hard time just trusting the baby steps and her.

Some days I just want to run away. Walk away. Can the LBS become the WAH?

This process takes super patience. That video you suggested 25, the lady said, "that sometimes the person who got cheated on is not the person with the most pain."

I think My wife has a lot of pain and hurt. She told me I broke her.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1

25,

I'm going to make an appointment to get seen about PTSD this up and coming week.

Good! It's a concrete goal, for you. You will give support AND get support.

So just for informative purposes, have you seen anyone about it, before now?

And when did you get back home? How many tours there did you do? Afghan or Iraq or both?

Do you have any guys from back there or any unit members around you now? What about phone numbers? Are you comfortable reaching out to check in with someone and asking for instance, how they handled sleep problems?

Like any group of people with common bonds, you can help & be helped by others in the same boat. Some will be behind you, and you'll recognize how you felt in your earlier moments back "then" and the feeling of still being in a foreign country with your alert" on high, even though you are back in the USA,

and the nightmares, startling at sudden movements, the heart racing and your focus shifting and then ---turns out, nearly all who leave the red zone do have these symptoms,

and just as resilience is like a muscle you can work on and strengthen, so it is with resilience.
I'm a big fan of support groups.

Myvwife felt Exactly like your husband made you and your children feel. I was making them fit in my world and never try to fit in theirs.

It was[b] quite a few events where I embarrassed her.

what did you say when she'd be upset about your behavior? Since you repeated it, was that b/c you justified it, did not care what she said Or drink again?

The worst one was in front of her father, where intold her she needs to get a job. It was a horrible moment.[/b]

Okay, I won't belabor the inappropriateness of the her Father being there for that type of talk. OUCH for her -that's a rough one.

Sounds like you resented something and took it out on her. IF YOU meant the remark

Only someone who does not "Get" what an effectively single stay at home mom, does, would think she does not have a job already. .A hard one, with no support at all when the h comes back...

Sure THERE are single moms who work, THERE are stay at home moms who can raise their kids& manage cars and homes and finances and social lives for their kids and their educations and sports and PTA and SEE THE CHILD GROW & KEEP HIM/HER SAFE BUT

with the military spouse

the trade off for a woman married to a military guy is that HE IS GONE FAR AWAY FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME, on top of all else,

while she does all this^^ and he is far away and he may not come back at all, or not the same. That's a free floating angst she's dealing with too. Many Wives go to T while their h's are gone.

AND THEN< they GET TO MOVE AGAIN for HIS career and she will do most of the moving and adjusting and the kids will be sad and SHE will get to handle them, again...and again..AND IF SHE CAN FINALLY GET A JOB it won't up to her skill level b/c she's moved 5 times (we moved 9) and has to start over each time so she can never earn what she might have earned..

I know strong military couples in combat units and one happy one, the COL thanks his wife, considers her before any choices and they really do decide together. He would leave the Army if she asked him. Just knowing that is true, makes it a little easier to bear, for her.

So when you return from an oversees assignment as if your stress (which is real, I know) but your stress is not the only stress your family was enduring. Your young beautiful wife had no mate many nights, she was raising the kids without a co-parent,

and to tell her to get a job means a whole lot of things she does were unknown, overlooked or not valued by you. UGH...

Guess I won't beat a dead horse...

HOW TO SAY THE NEW VIEW TO HER --
If she says "too little too late"

you get that, but she misunderstood your point of sharing. We are referring to a big revelation in you . You are not saying these things to get her back (in theory)
[i]
but to to get something off your chest. A revelation of sorts.

You are saying a value of yours is now developed and some views of yours have shifted...a value of yours you needed to express to her, not as a tactic but as a revelation to you/her that she needs to know you have had.

And I hope it's true. And don't wait around for her to react, bc again, it's about you revealing something you have learned, THEN behaving consistent with this new realization
AND moving along...
NO expectations of her, just you sharing your opinion and move on...but then really GET IT AND LIVE IT --- okay?

And say compliments to your w in public, (she's smart, she did the whole house project/kids homework/painted a wall/sewed something/is creative/artistic/beautiful/a devoted mom/so funny/loving/well put together, great chef ETC

That could counter some of the damage that publicly humiliating your wife has dome.

And maybe telling her dad how you really feel and that you are embarrassed by your behaviors. You were, for lack of a better phrase, too angry when you returned and you are working on that. Just letting him know you do value his daughter. That if you had it all to do over again, there are many things you'd do differently.

NO expectations. You are not recruiting him as an ally, you are apologizing for embarrassing his daughter in front of him,

which must have sucked for both of them.
[/i]

I have been a lot more patient. I have been a lot more understanding as well.

She really wants me to feel what she had to go through the last seven years she keeps telling me this.

She has been opening a lot more lately. But I must be honest. I don't trust her. She hasnt shown me anything that she is talking to the OM. But I have a hard time just trusting the baby steps and her.

well your record of being a "self professed a$$hole/jerk" is longer than the EA

And she has a hard time trusting that your changes are real or lasting.

Why not go to Retrovaille?: I strongly urge you to look into it.

It does NOT require you to be Catholic or Christian and they can accept sliding scale payment usually.

We got a lot out of it. WE did not keep the after weekend program going which was a mistake. But the program weekend, and then follow up sessions, my free advice is to

DO THEM!!!!!!

This process takes super patience. That video you suggested 25, the lady said, "that sometimes the person who got cheated on is not the person with the most pain."

Indeed, it's not all about the betrayal of cheating and since this is an EA, it can mean she's in so much pain inside her marriage, she is lonely in her m,

she may not believe you can do what she's waited so long for you to do. She says you broke her -- with the constant criticism? Do you like your w?? Honestly do you?

You told her to "get a job!", in a way to humiliate her, I'm asking you, what your true emotions for your w, are. Do you want to work on loving her more?

Do you like your wife, or just want to stay m, or do you just want to win over OM?

It's a real question I'm not making light of, at all.

Well, let's hope you can help her heal.

I think My wife has a lot of pain and hurt. She told me I broke her.

ouch Must be hard for her to have endured and hard to tell you, and hard for you to hear.

Maybe you can help her heal.

25,

I truly love my wife. I absolutely like my wife.

I have been deployed 3 times. Once to Iraq, once to Afghanistan, and once to Kuwait. I really didn't take into account her contributions while being a single parent while I was deployed.

I have talked to a therapist and military Chaplian.

The military put us thru a lot of training, but they have no training for us on how to be a husband and father. I think it's a subject that needs to be taught for husband and wives that serve in the Military.

I called my father in law the pass weekend and apologized for my behavior that day, I told him I was a selfish man with selfish intentions that day. My wife told me that her father was disappointed at me that day and he lost respect for me as well. He accepted my apology. "Woo what tangle webs we weave."

We might be going out together today. I will keep in mine to compliment her in public. Thats a great idea.

I have to say, that I really hate this situation, but the honest truth is it has been a blessing. Inhave learned so much about myself, my wife and my boys. I have gain tools that I never would have without this wake up call. I have gotten back in church and has made Jesus and GOD a daily part of my life. I'm also more optimistic. I do have my down moments and days, but with this forum and Vets like you 25 I know I'm going to be alright. Oh, I'm smiling more and enjoying being around people.

I made huge mistakes in my marriage and I havr fully accepted that my wife don't have to take me back and it's 100 percent her choice. But I need her know I valued her and being a jerk and absent while there was the fool in me and ignorance. I also want her to see that I'm willing to fight and not just give up.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1

The military put us thru a lot of training, but they have no training for us on how to be a husband and father. I think it's a subject that needs to be taught for husband and wives that serve in the Military.

AMEN!!! And not just to people in the military, but to EVERYONE. I was just talking to my daughter about this last night. We should have classes in high school that deal with how to be a great spouse and parent, and how to handle personal finances. How is it that we are taught history, science, math, etc. but not the skills that are MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL???? Nooo, we're just supposed to figure that out as we go! And unfortunately the only way we really learn those life skills is by screwing up and learning from our mistakes. Not the most efficient method!

Quote:

I have to say, that I really hate this situation, but the honest truth is it has been a blessing. Inhave learned so much about myself, my wife and my boys. I have gain tools that I never would have without this wake up call. I have gotten back in church and has made Jesus and GOD a daily part of my life. I'm also more optimistic. I do have my down moments and days, but with this forum and Vets like you 25 I know I'm going to be alright. Oh, I'm smiling more and enjoying being around people.

That is a very healthy attitude to have about it. All any of us can do about it is learn, improve ourselves and keep moving forward!

AS,

I'm agree, we have stop teaching life skills in our schools. Our children are set up to think having a great career is the key to happiness and live is a magical entity that just happens. We are not taught that love takes work. Hard work. It's a job in it of itself.

I've been catching up on your thread, and I'm so glad 25 has the military background.....as well as just being so knowledgeable about relationships.....to relate. I am surprised the military does not have some type of M support groups that addresses these issues.

I relate to your W having to be the bad guy with the kids, b/c daddy won't discipline them. I held a lot of resentment about it, and felt I was probably harder on them b/c I had no support. Plus, I was never the type who told the kids, "Wait until your father gets home", and it's a good thing I didn't wait on him.

Now that you are developing a stronger relationship with your boys, you can begin to help with some of the disciplining, too. You may consider choosing a good time where you can express appreciation for the job she's done. She should realize you are validating her, instead of taking over her job.

You may a good move by talking to your FIL. Did you apologize to your W, also? I learned too late to never do anything to embarrass, degrade or humiliate my spouse in front of his relatives....or mine. In fact, just don't do it in front of anyone, and you'll be much better off. Once it's out there in front of others, it can't be undone. And guess who comes off looking really bad.

You are in a period where you are gathering a lot of new information. You may not be able to apply everythingyou learn at one time, due to the fact of your timetable and your WW's timetable are out of sorts. However, there's still some things, just as we are talking about here. There are some other things you'd like to do but the timing isn't ready....but keep learning with the intentions of applying it when the time is right. I hope that makes sense.

I have seen H's pick up some new point or a neat phrase on the board.....some word catch or thought that was given to him for him...not his WW. But the H would repeat the phrase or point to his W....thinking it would impress her or give something to think about, and not get the response he wanted. It's b/c they were not meant for her. Just wanted to throw this caution your way while I was thinking about it. And btw, I am not referring to when the board gives you an example of how to word something specific to say to your W. Hope this isn't confusing you.

Sandi,

I get what you are saying with that last paragraph. Youbare saying we come and read a lot. But not every message is meant for every WW. If she doesn't respond, it's def not meant for her.

I have apologized to my wife as well, for embarrassing her.

I know I was a terrible husband. But I can't change the past. Now I'm moving forward. Fixing the destruction I have caused.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1

25,

I truly love my wife. I absolutely like my wife.
-
I have talked to a therapist and military Chaplian.

The military put us thru a lot of training, but they have no training for us on how to be a husband and father. I think it's a subject that needs to be taught for husband and wives that serve in the Military.

I called my father in law the pass weekend and apologized for my behavior that day, I told him I was a selfish man with selfish intentions that day. My wife told me that her father was disappointed at me that day and he lost respect for me as well. He accepted my apology. "Woo what tangle webs we weave."

We might be going out together today. I will keep in mine to compliment her in public. Thats a great idea.

I have to say, that I really hate this situation, but the honest truth is it has been a blessing. Inhave learned so much about myself, my wife and my boys. I have gain tools that I never would have without this wake up call. I have gotten back in church and has made Jesus and GOD a daily part of my life. I'm also more optimistic. I do have my down moments and days, but with this forum and Vets like you 25 I know I'm going to be alright. Oh, I'm smiling more and enjoying being around people.

I made huge mistakes in my marriage and I havr fully accepted that my wife don't have to take me back and it's 100 percent her choice. But I need her know I valued her and being a jerk and absent while there was the fool in me and ignorance. I also want her to see that I'm willing to fight and not just give up.

Joe, you took some major 2 x4's from me. That took the type of humility only a strong man has.

Your willingness to improve as a man of faith and honor may well be your bravest hardest work, and your greatest achievement in life.

Kudos.

PS

not to overwhelm you too much with too much detail, but when you compliment your w

put some thought into it. Not a "you look nice." Or "good dinner." Though those are positive, they often come off as fobbed off lines without thought.

I am not sure what she felt worst about herself or in terms of your criticisms, e.g. her intelligence or cooking, financial management, weight, or her mothering but I would start there.

JoeJoe - you have the classic DB challenge - of balancing your willingness to "become a man only a fool would leave" (and yes, owning your role in this mess),

against not pressuring your wife to end a fantasy existence with OM. Pressure and pursuit can backfire.

You will need to consistently apply something for enough time for it to be trusted, before monitoring for any results.

* (MWD uses the term "monitoring for results" and people over analyze and get confused. In my experience, the results are usually pretty obvious one way or another, if you give it enough time).

Now that we've cleared that up...

All women like being complimented for their mothering, esp if they have been the stay at home military wife. We need to be reminded of how valued we are and how valuable what WE do/did is.

No fighter pilot or military neurosurgeon can do their job consistently or over time, if they are worried that their families are in crisis or are lost to them.

The military knows this in theory but it's still sort of abstract. That is another reason there's more divorce in deployed soldiers' families. If you ever deploy again, involve your family in as much of the day to day (safe stuff, obviously)

that you can so that you don't feel like strangers when you return. Same for hearing what your w's AND Kids lives were like so you know your kids' bff's names, teacher's names favorite subjects, latest funny or scary show watched, etc.

These ^^ are things you can discuss now, too.

The military does attempt to give family support but you REALLY have to navigate the system to get a lot of help.

First I must ask you - do you want to retire from the military? How long do you have left ? I ask this b/c there may be career considerations to touch on later.

May I assume your skills are medical in origin? (H & i were both active duty in your present city). Those skills do transfer to the civilian world if need be or when the time comes. Which will make the transition easier for you.

Are there any classes or a degree your w would want to get into? Or a career training?

NOT That you have to push her towards working outside the home, (!) but if there is something other than her fantasy life that she could focus on, you can mention your support of it. The post 9-11 benefits Can include partial funding of family members schooling or the soldiers.

Careful Not to say this in a manipulative way, but so she knows the program exists in case she is interested.

You said you like your wife (and love her). Why not list a few things you like about her here,

and perhaps we can help you delineate how authentic compliments might sound?

25,

My compliments are basic. An you help with a few examples.

I have been in almost 16 and half years. Yes I plan on retiring. I'm military intelligence. So I can't really talk about my work with my wofe which complicates things more.

My wife wants to get her master's
She is a huge procrastinator. I gavr her 24 months of my post 9-11 GI bill 2 years ago. She still hasnt started college. She wants to work. She wants to start college, she just can never stay committed. I was helping trying to get some of the steps done. But it's her journey now. If she ask me for help I have no problem doing that.

I was working on my Master's in public administration, but I took a knee on that once BD hit. Couldnt concentrate.

My wife is a huge caring person. She loves helping people out and I truly love that about her. She is awesome with our boys. And she can walk into any room and make herself home. She's very creative, I mean really creative.

Quote:

I get what you are saying with that last paragraph. Youbare saying we come and read a lot. But not every message is meant for every WW. If she doesn't respond, it's def not meant for her.

It is not meant to be repeated to her. I can't remember if it is on your thread or elsewhere, where you were told that "you may want your W in your life, but don't need her". Then you repeated those words to her.

Quote:

If she doesn't respond, it's def not meant for her.

You should not tell her what you gleam from the board. She is not the one here......you are. And stop telling her things to get a response. That's just not something you should be doing, unless otherwise specified by the poster in how to word something to your W.

Sandi,

I understand. I don't remember me telling my wife that comment you mentioned above. "I want you in my life I dont need you".

Originally Posted By: joejoe1

25,

My compliments are basic. An you help with a few examples.

I have been in almost 16 and half years. Yes I plan on retiring. I'm military intelligence. So I can't really talk about my work with my wofe which complicates things more.

I'm familiar with that as my dad was in the intelligence field and family members are now. Growing up with that was hard when he'd get stressed at work and we had 9 kids in our family and dad had poor coping skills back then...too bad for him and for my mom and for us.

Maybe you can discuss who is a jerk, who is funny, hardworking at work, or good at the office functions, or introduce other families so you all can support each other and know what you can, about each other's work...

My wife wants to get her master's
She is a huge procrastinator.

STOP^^^.

Re- frame "She has a lot of interests."

I gavr her 24 months of my post 9-11 GI bill 2 years ago.

Curious. Did you pay for it or did the VA? I'm just curious. My h talks a lot about the VA benefits he "gave" our d20...(While cutting her off, as well). In his case, it cost him nothing...

Joe Joe, for a moment, put aside your w's BD. Is this really a good family time for you to go back to school, anyhow? You did say you want to put your marriage and family first, so give that some thought.

Your kids are not this age forever.

She still hasnt started college. She wants to work. She wants to start college, she just can never stay committed.

REFRAME...OMG ....ever wonder why she might doubt herself or her skills? Just asking...

I was helping trying to get some of the steps done. But it's her journey now. If she ask me for help I have no problem doing that.

I was working on my Master's in public administration, but I took a knee on that once BD hit. Couldnt concentrate.

makes sense. I'm in a divorcecare support group and most people there have commented that they cannot believe they are keeping their jobs. Some say they are glad to throw themselves into their jobs.

You do what you need to do to conserve your inner resources and spend them wisely.

My wife is a huge caring person. She loves helping people out and I truly love that about her. She is awesome with our boys. And she can walk into any room and make herself home. She's very creative, I mean really creative.

-- So

she's really a compassionate person. She has a lot of meaningful friendships & close family ties. With good reason.

Great people skills, empathetic, and connects with people well. When she chooses a field to pursue or job she likes, she'll be at ease

(telling her she will "excel" might seem like setting her up for failure which is in the back of her mind. I get where she's coming from I think).

Oh and What a great example she is for the kids! Speaking of whom, thank God she's such a good mom b/c the kids will grow up knowing they are loved, which is the greatest gift parents can give. They'll know they have worth, and value, and because of that they will see the value and worth of the person they choose to marry, and will be able to love deeply too.

(Your choosing to fight for the marriage reflects this^^ too.)

25,

Giving my wife some of my GI bill costed me nothing.

So what do I tell her when she says she wants to go back to school or get a job? I always tell her she will do great.

25,

I'm having a lot of thoughts of throwing in the towel. Im so lost in this area. I know people on here say they can't tell us how long to fight, but I don't know how much more I can take. I find it a little selfish on my part. My wife put up with my stuff for over 5 years. And I want my boys to know I never gave up. I'm conflicted

Joe,

You habe nothing to feel guilty about. There is a OM in the picture, which changes the dynamic of yiur patience. For example if my W just needed sometime apart and work things out, then I would no problem sitting her , making my changes for as long as it took for her to come back to the MR.

But instead there is a OM in the picture, which is a game changer. Not to mention potential OM she has set up for when she can't get assess to OM1 who is her main obsession. Why should any H or W be expected to be patient through that mess? So is she supposed to have great time and then if we recon. W gets to have her H and family back?

I decided that I will not be plan B. And if you seriously want your W back. Them she needs to see that your willing to walk out that door, because of her behavior. You did nothing this bad to deserve this. Hell you took care of your family. Yes you could have done things differently like myself. But they could have really had a conversation with us. Not talk to everybody else.

Joe - I'm with Tread on this one too.

What truly gets me is that our W's decided not to talk to us directly and jumped ship without even giving a chance to work it out. WTF right? If I had known she was so miserable - and she wasn't as miserable as she's making it out to be as she hugely revised our marriage history - I would've rolled up the sleeves to make it work.

As you said, no one can tell you how long you should stand for your MR. As Tread noted, with an OM in the picture it's so much more difficult because they get to go out and live this life and just expect that if they come back the H is going to be waiting with open arms? GTFO here. You have to move on.

I will say this though about 'throwing in the towel' as you put it. Don't give up on the MR from a place of pain and discomfort. I know it may seem the easy way to do it, but I don't think you will come out on the other side as a stronger and better person. Walking the discomfort path is for the LBS to figure out where their weaknesses were and own up to them - which you have - and then make amends for yourself, not W. You have to forgive yourself and realize that this $hit is hard and you did not create environment where she decided to have an A - she had other options, but she chose that route and for that you are not to blame. She has to own her decision and consequences for the A.

Personally, I do have an internal timeline for myself to see if anything changes - monitor and observe as MWD would say. But, more important than the timeline, I want to be able to make the decision to 'throw in the towel' from a position of strength and clarity - and not being Plan B for her. I want to get to a place of zen, self-confidence, and self-worth from where I can see exactly what I want and what I need. And that my decisions are based on my own strength rather than whatever pain she has caused me.

Have the mindset of - she's never going to want to recon. What are you going to do now? For me, if she ever wants to recon - which may be months or years from now, I will need to assess that based on where I am at and what I would require from her. But, that is from a place of strength, not revenge or vindictiveness or wanting to punish her.

I am sorry you're feeling this way but we all have our down days. Take care of your own business and throw down that alpha male that you know is inside of you and let him out. You'll be in a good place regardless of whatever W wants.

Tread and Maika,

I guess I'm just getting tired of the attitude. If she doesn't want to be here, I dont understand why she dosent leave. But, I understand y'all point. Get to the best person I can be before I make any decisions.

Reading your tread Maika, I understand more clearly today. Her reactions are non and void in this situation. It's all on me. I walk away when I better.

Originally Posted By: Tread

Joe,

You habe nothing to feel guilty about. There is a OM in the picture, which changes the dynamic of yiur patience. For example if my W just needed sometime apart and work things out, then I would no problem sitting her , making my changes for as long as it took for her to come back to the MR.

But instead there is a OM in the picture, which is a game changer. Not to mention potential OM she has set up for when she can't get assess to OM1 who is her main obsession. Why should any H or W be expected to be patient through that mess? So is she supposed to have great time and then if we recon. W gets to have her H and family back?

I decided that I will not be plan B. And if you seriously want your W back. Them she needs to see that your willing to walk out that door, because of her behavior. You did nothing this bad to deserve this. Hell you took care of your family. Yes you could have done things differently like myself. But they could have really had a conversation with us. Not talk to everybody else.

Tread, I think you give the same advice to every man here.

Joe said quite plainly and with validity that he played a significant role in his marital problems, and you want him to forget all that, forget his own work,

and play the tough love game. Or just divorce her. (Maybe that worked for you?)

But it ^^ is not MWD's, approach - it's not DB's.

25,

Do I stick it out. She's says "if we make it all the time". She is showing no signs of putting in effort for a divorce. She wants to wait until this up and coming summer to move out so we can have space. She says she needs space and time to heal. I don't know what to do with that statement.

Are you willing to wait it out in the same house until next summer? Is that going to be conducive for your emotional and mental sanity? Can she move out? I would look at these questions to see what you should do.

If she says she needs space and time to heal, then you have two options - ask her to move out or you DB like TxHubby if she can't move out. I don't really see any other option for you where you can maintain your sanity.

If she has said she needs space, validate her feelings. But, start at looking how that can be accomplished that works for you.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1

25,

Giving my wife some of my GI bill costed me nothing.

So what do I tell her when she says she wants to go back to school or get a job? I always tell her she will do great.

Does she really have to "do great"? I'm asking. For some people, especially if they're married to a defined career person (you are in the military with a defined MOS, my h is an MD with a defined MOS) the expectations of greatness are a lot to live up to.

But the expectations of "greatness" from my h were, frankly, a drag. Why? Impossible.

Meaning, - in my experience as a working mom with h as my co-parent, I could only be "great" at one or the other, parenting or career.

I did ALL the childcare while at home, and all the planning for lunches and clothes and activities, while I worked full time. H was working. And if i had to travel for work,

OMG the kids were on their own. (The one year my sister was assigned to our area was so great b/c she'd take my kids when I travelled.I could not have taken that job if not for her).

My point is, H was not a great partner for those years - and in his defense, his career did not allow for that anyhow.

I doubt he's even aware of this ^^^reality or clued in, to how hard it was on the kids or me b/c frankly, he did not see it.

(I recall times he brought the kids to neighbors at midnight b/c he got a call, never thinking he was imposing on them, but it always made me uncomfortable.

He also brought them to the operating room lounge when he was called at 4 am and I was out of town. (I'm sure the nurses loved watching them so he could do surgery).

Point is, h likely sees no problem with this^^^ and many service members just do not know how something like that happens but

the inability of the soldier to change schedules or accommodate a spouse's career, hinders the spouse much more than they even know. How could you really know?

I'm not saying you can fix your w's choices and you sure cannot make the choice for her.

Just make sure she knows the kids will be fine and how You will assist her in making it that way.
Maybe when she comes up with a plan - instead of putting the onus on her to live up to expectations of greatness, let her know you will manage the kids and home front while she pursues it. "I've got the kids/home front covered".

Implicit in this^^ is the reality that if she's not married to you, that won't happen. It need NOT be said. Make sense? See, the marriage to you is what frees her to actualize her potential, not a divorce.

Your w may be factoring in a lot of things other than what she likes. That's all I'm saying.

As for how long you can do this before throwing in the towel, be more specific.

is the question how long you can work on yourself - or

how long you can deal with the ambiguity -- or

how long you can handle the gut punch feeling?

Suggestions:

Work on detachment and see an IC to get help with all of these^^.

Maybe you can give yourself some time goals. 60 days, 30?

Even though it was for internal reasons (to know there was a light at the end of the limbo tunnel) that helped me manage on a weekly basis, sometimes a daily one.

You need to be able to soothe & distract yourself regardless of what happens, or this will eat you up inside. Just ask yourself what divorcing now, would give you. I'm serious. There are times when a spouse feels a lot of pain and just wants it to stop.
( I get it!)

But filing for divorce does not end the pain. Could it lead to you finding peace down the road? Sure.

So could working on the m, and that has a lot less collateral damage. Have you read the divorce busting or divorce remedy books? Read at least one of them b/c it will reinforce a lot of what we say here and distinguishes the philosophy of MWD from random advice given.

I believe in sincere herculean efforts to stay married, when there are children. Not to save the marriage at all costs. But as you say, you have not worked as hard or half as long as your wife did. The gut punch you feel is real, but to hear some folks talk, it's as if your wife never had her share of them.

Bottom line, Either way, your road is not an easy one by a long shot.

Get an IC, get an activity or something that calms down the racing thoughts and gut punch feelings, and turn your marriage and pain over to God. Don't keep your focus on her. Keep it on you & the kids.

When you do the work you feel is needed to become the man you were meant to become - the best Joejoe possible,

when you know in your heart you have done your very best, making the specific changes you needed & wanted to make

then hold your head high, be at peace, and leave the results up to Him.

25,

Divorce relieve the pain, you are right. Hurclean effort, that's right as well.

Walking with my head held high means a lot to me. I will keep these thoughts in my forefront.

JJ...if you can figure out how to start detaching it will help. It helped me when my W moved out, it didn't stop the pain but it has definately helped me with the process. I am not detached yet but I am starting to notice that her actions and words don't impact me as much.

As far as what to do I agree with 25. I am not ready to date yet and I don't think having D papers in my hand would change it. I was reading a book last week where it was talking about needing to stand for the MR and the family when your S is in turmoil. Whether I had papers or not I would still have to do the work to be confident and ensure to be better spouse for my W or my next relationship. I also try not to take things personally and I realize I control her actions.

I wish I had better advice for you and only you know what you can handle. If you can get through the initial rush of emotions it does it get better with time.

You have no reason to not walk around with your head held high. Your standing for your MR and family that is something to be proud of.

JJ,

Thanks for that last sentence. About holding my head high.

Please start a new thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2763976#Post2763976