JMSTL thread-Part 5-What a beautiful GAL

Previous thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2760042#Post2760042

Going back to J9's thread, I feel that I am finally discovering my purpose.

Setting up this blog and writing has been such an eye opener to me (as if they weren't being opened enough). I feel that should W ever ask what my purpose is, I can finally give her an answer other than being a dad and a husband, and that would be:

To enrich people's lives by teaching and entertaining, through positive storytelling.

I feel that with the blog, and with my writing, I can mix entertainment with teaching opportunities, telling my own personal experiences in a relateable way.

I think a lot of my GAL efforts are going to be focused on this front.

In addition to the blog, I have a book that I am try to actively work on.

Jmstl,

Nice, let me know the book name, so I can check it out.

You see that is cool none of which interests me

.

I even told my IC about how my W does stuff like that. Her parents are old school hippies and are all into the alternative stuff, in-touch with their feelings and all that. Which is cool, I am not hating but none of that is remotely appealing to me.

J dawg be splitting tree trunks with his knuckles while we write about it 😀

It [censored] but it's true....maybe my W wanted me to be more in touch with my inner chi or something like that. That why I am exploring it with my IC but in reality I am a happy, go lucky person that doesn't need a lot of mental stimulation.

If that is what my W wants I can't do it, would be miserable. Like I forced myself to read LL, NMMNG, etc. It was hard.....

Don't change for her. You do you and you rock.

Originally Posted By: Maika

Don't change for her. You do you and you rock.

What M said.

Don't change for her, change for yourself, if you want to.

For me, I am changing for me. But the things I am changing ARE things that W pointed out were an issue. So I had to reflect on that.

I even had a blog post about this very topic, Motivation for change.

If I did it she would know it is fake. BTW, I just changed my FB profile photo with her not in it. Let's see if that gets her going

Thanks M.....at the end of the day we are who we are. We can make small tweaks but they have to be lasting or we will go right back into the same old crap.

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

If I did it she would know it is fake. BTW, I just changed my FB profile photo with her not in it. Let's see if that gets her going

Thanks M.....at the end of the day we are who we are. We can make small tweaks but they have to be lasting or we will go right back into the same old crap.

J9, that is totally true. For me I am aiming for a larger change, but trying to do it small manageable chunks.

That's cool, at least you got something to work with. I think breaking it down is also a good strategy.

I wish my W would have given me concrete reasons that I could try to attack. Unfortunately she didn't do a lot of communicating with me so I have just tried to attack are things that are good for me but would also appear on her radar screen as well.

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

That's cool, at least you got something to work with. I think breaking it down is also a good strategy.

I wish my W would have given me concrete reasons that I could try to attack. Unfortunately she didn't do a lot of communicating with me so I have just tried to attack are things that are good for me but would also appear on her radar screen as well.

OH no, I did not really get anything concrete.

I want you to be happy and healthy
You are always miserable
You don't take the lead
We just aren't compatible.

I never got a level of specificity. I tried really hard to get specifics. In the end, I had to determine what that meant to ME.

I asked, what would be the first sign that I was happy and healthy.

Her response was, "I don't know know what that means to you"

Oh that is nice, I got the you will be happier without me and finally get what you need.

Sounds like your W was making up excuses to justify her actions.

Jmstl,

I'm in agreement with J9, those are the typical WW lines. But now you are not miserable and you are taking the lead right. So keep doing what you do. She will get mad that you are improving.

Does she seem healthy and happy now?

My W does not seem happy or healthy. She seems stressed out, scatterbrained and all over the place. She is having problems keeping track of our parenting schedule and where she needs to be for what. I will send her an email with the information and she either texts me wanting to know or will ask me in person when I just sent her the details earlier in the day. SMH......

J9,

So, she said she want3d to be healthy and happy and you have been detaching. So is probably confused as hell. If she thought you were her problems and now you have given her space, she might be wondering why shr still feel the way she does.

One of our friends asked her a couple months ago if she had any regrets about leaving and she no and that she is reminded of that every time she walks into her apartment.

I am sure she is struggling more than what she lets on but she has shown no cracks in her armor at all.

All of our former couple friends though indicate she doesn't look the same and doesn't seem happy. I would agree.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1

Jmstl,

I'm in agreement with J9, those are the typical WW lines. But now you are not miserable and you are taking the lead right. So keep doing what you do. She will get mad that you are improving.

Does she seem healthy and happy now?

She at least puts on the appearance she is happier and healthier. But she says she doesnt enjoy time away from the kids, doesnt sleep well when they are away from her, and is keeping busy with her free time (vs enjoying it)

Originally Posted By: Jmstl

OH no, I did not really get anything concrete.

I want you to be happy and healthy
You are always miserable
You don't take the lead
We just aren't compatible.

That sounds pretty concrete to me. Were you always pessimistic and griping to your W about work problems, traffic frustrations, etc.? Really think about that because a lot of us get that way after years and years of being married. We -think- it's OK to dump all our day's crap on our wives, it can be cathartic to us but eventually they start seeing it as us "being miserable all the time". We don't realize that all that negativity is affecting them.

Quote:

I asked, what would be the first sign that I was happy and healthy.

Do you see the irony here, that she tells you that you never "take the lead" and your immediate response is to ask her what SHE thinks the first sign of you being happy & healthy would be? Women want their husbands to be leaders. They don't want to have to tell them everything they need to do, because that makes them feel more like a mother than a wife.

Quote:

Her response was, "I don't know know what that means to you"

She is right. Can you answer that? What is being happy to you? Answer it without referencing your W or your M. Use that as your frame of reference for some goal-setting.

I get this sense that you (and others here in their own threads) take everything your W says as meaningless garbage. That's probably how you acted in the M too- you didn't respect her. So now here you are, more convinced than ever that she has nothing valuable to say. LISTEN to what she says. Do 180's on the things you can.

Brilliant as usual from AS above.

I think thats half the problem at the minute, your sort of expecting your W to advise you about things your need to do and/or what she needs to see in order to make this situation 'right again'.

That can only come from you. There is no act to put on or certain techniques to follow because you wont be able to keep that up in the long term and the 'old you' will come creeping back in.

One of the biggest changes I made, and had the biggest impact - is this...

Over the weekend, she asked me how my week had gone. Normally before sh*t hit the fan i would say "Oh the usual, (insert name) is being a douche at work, the traffic is terrible, etc.., need to take the car to the garage)etc..etc..

On reflection, I see how negative and whiney that is.

So I started to look at the way I communicated with her. So before I started a rant or a moan, I would ask myself "Is what I am going to say negative or positive? If its negative, can my W sort it out for me? - If not.. then say nothing.

For example after she now asks how was my week has gone, I say "Pretty standard really, few people/situations annoyed me but but nothing worth wasting my time on. I am looking forward to having a rest this weekend and watching football - how did your week go"?

That change in communication when adapted to fit other situations is the singular thing that my W has identified as the main catalyst for change.

I am a much more pleasurable person to be around. Much more positive, address negative situations there and then and accept and deal with quickly and move on, and talk about the future with a spring in your step and having genuine appreciation for the things you do have rather than the things you lack.

Its easy after so many years to dump your issues/moans etc. on your partner. Its a BIG mistake

Jmstl,

I agree with Ben and AS, she gave you things you can 180. I would start working one those. Becoming optimistic and positive are attractive qualities.

You know, I think this was the first time AS managed to offend me.

Quote:

I get this sense that you (and others here in their own threads) take everything your W says as meaningless garbage. That's probably how you acted in the M too- you didn't respect her. So now here you are, more convinced than ever that she has nothing valuable to say. LISTEN to what she says. Do 180's on the things you can.

I have never, once ever took anything she said as meaningless garbage. Everything she has/had to say has meaning and value, even when I disagreed with it. I never discounted her opinion, and in fact, as I have come to find out, I overvalued her opinions, to the detriment of my own.

Would I gripe to her about work? Sure, maybe once a week I would complain about something minor. I got dumped on about work stuff almost every day. Nearly every day I would get multiple texts about how she didn't like this person, or her employees weren't performing, etc.

I would always try to validate her frustration and affirm that she was extremely talented at her job and that every office is going to have politics and frustrations.

The reason I asked the question, was this was a question STRAIGHT OUT OF THE BOOK!

Being specific. Drilling down to the exact reason things are the way they are. I asked what my being happy would look like, because SHE said THAT was an Issue. She wants me to be happy. OK, how will YOU know that I am happy?

Will I smile more? Will my tone change? how about my posture.

I am met with, "You can just tell"...That, is a cop out. There must be some sort of external sign (Smiling, hand holding, etc) That indicates to you that a couple is happy, the people are happy.

I know what being happy and healthy looks like to ME. But I want to know how SHE will know.

It had nothing to do with me not taking the lead, and had everything to do with asking for specific answers to one of the problems she laid out.

My attitude has 180'd.

I don't discuss anything negative with her. I am not involved in politics anymore, I don't complain about the price of gas (Things she said I would talk a lot about. I didn't but these were identified, so it must be important to her to have stuck.
Bear in mind, this is also a woman who held on to a comment that I don't even remember from the very first months of our relationship)

Benni. I am not asking her to advise me on anything.

The questions I asked were in the beginning of the S, at the time when she had told me she wanted to rebuild the marriage.

Since I could never get any level of specifics on what I needed to change (I'm not meeting your emotional needs? Can you lay out how I am /not/ doing that so I can be better about it? was met with "I'm not going to list a bunch of things and say you aren't that person") I taking the general vague answers that I got and seeing how they apply to me.

Oh, you think I am a negative person? Let me reflect on what makes me feel negative, and eliminate those things from my life.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1

Jmstl,

I agree with Ben and AS, she gave you things you can 180. I would start working one those. Becoming optimistic and positive are attractive qualities.

I am optimistic and positive.

I try to make every interaction with her as pleasant as possible.

Jmstl,

I'm trying to understand what you are asking. From what I perceived you wanted specifics from your wife on what you needed to do to show her you are happy. But what is trying to be conveyed to you is that, you have to become happy and your wife will notice. A unhappy person can smile and laugh. People can tell if a person is truly happy, and that's the message here. If you truly become happy, you won't have to tell any person, not even your wife, everyone will notice.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1

Jmstl,

I'm trying to understand what you are asking. From what I perceived you wanted specifics from your wife on what you needed to do to show her you are happy. But what is trying to be conveyed to you is that, you have to become happy and your wife will notice. A unhappy person can smile and laugh. People can tell if a person is truly happy, and that's the message here. If you truly become happy, you won't have to tell any person, not even your wife, everyone will notice.

In the very beginning of the S, I tried to applied the techniques from the book, and tried to ask for specific actions, so that solutions could be developed to address those issue.

It was either in the book or one of MWD's talks that specifically addressed the whole 'I want you to be happy' issue and how that was extremely vague, and to get more specific.

I don't ask her what I need to do now. She is done. She has stated that NO MATTER WHAT I DO, she is done. Completely done and never coming back.

So I don't ask her, how will you know I am happy. I am doing what makes me happy. I have 180'd my negative attitude, and almost everyone that spends any time around me has noticed it.

The problem I have right now, is showing W my positive attitude, while at the same time giving her 'something to miss' by being short on words, etc.

So I have been monitoring, and I need to adjust my approach, and find what works best.

Jmstl,

I understand better now. I'm on the same path. I will continue to DB, GAL, and 180. I have come to a point, where I don't care if my wife notice, (well I do a little), but my focus is not on it. It's become more of a focus on me and my boys.

I think that is the problem joe. Trying to strike that balance between not caring, and caring. If we did not care at all, we wouldn't even be trying to DB, right?

Jm,

You are right, striking that balance I know is a key ingredient. We were discussing the LL and 180s yesterday and how they are opposite of each other.

But I also think, that our Ws know we care, we have told them on too many occasions already. I'm of the mindset, that they have to fully be of the mindset that they are losing us. The only way is tough love.

Caring: displaying kindness and concern for others. We can do these things and still fully detach. We can be kind, we can show concern, when concern is truly needed. Each Sitch is different, but a total lost IMO must be felt. It's hard to put a person you love in this position.

I don't know if you are a Christian, but the story of the Prodigal son comes to mind in this situation. One key area and I will highlight is what I know our spouses must have.

Verse 17 is what we need to happen to our WW. This type of behavior has been going on for centuries and the same process has to happen on both ends.

The Parable of the Lost Son
11 Jesus continued: �There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, �Father, give me my share of the estate.� So he divided his property between them.

13 �Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

17 �When he came to his senses, he said, �How many of my father�s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.� 20 So he got up and went to his father.

�But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

21 �The son said to him, �Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.�

22 �But the father said to his servants, �Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let�s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.� So they began to celebrate.

Thanks JJ. Yes I am. The parable is pretty appropriate. I had actually forgotten about this one, As most of my reading had been focused in say 1 Corinthians and some Philippians.

Last night was a pretty light, but enjoyable GAL. Went and had some burritos with a friend, and then we just hung out and watched TV.

Didn't discuss W at all, but she did send a few kid related messages. Every time I seem to clear her from my head for a bit, she messages me. Almost as if she KNOWS.

How many burritos can you eat?

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

How many burritos can you eat?

Just one big one. Blew my calorie count for the day out of the water, but it's kind of a one off, so I didn't worry too much about it.

So, I get this message on FB from W

Hey, did you know about this page? I could not be happier with our decision to choose <D's school> Thank you for being such an awesome dad.

I was having such a good morning too, and this flood of emotion comes back.

Yeah, I know objectively I am a good dad. But I feel like Jesus. I am such a great dad, but apparently not good enough human being to be your husband? I almost feel like she does this stuff on purpose.

Yeah, these messages $uck. You will be able to see these messages in the future and it won't affect you - I promise; I been there. I know it feels like torture and why they do it, but it's a non-actionable message - so read and let it slide off.

Originally Posted By: Maika

Yeah, these messages $uck. You will be able to see these messages in the future and it won't affect you - I promise; I been there. I know it feels like torture and why they do it, but it's a non-actionable message - so read and let it slide off.

Right, I wanted to respond and just say thank you, or you are such an awesome mom too, but I opted to just not even respond.

Literally typed the message and get get this email from Adobe

Get over your ex. Photoshop can help.

I think some being is trying to tell me something

Originally Posted By: Jmstl

So, I get this message on FB from W

Hey, did you know about this page? I could not be happier with our decision to choose <D's school> Thank you for being such an awesome dad.

I was having such a good morning too, and this flood of emotion comes back.

Yeah, I know objectively I am a good dad. But I feel like Jesus. I am such a great dad, but apparently not good enough human being to be your husband? I almost feel like she does this stuff on purpose.

Well, she probably does do it on purpose, but not in the way you think.

Honestly, I'm shocked by the spin you are putting on this, but I see other posters agreeing with you, so it's clear you are not alone.

To me, this seems a nice, friendly gesture to show appreciation for your work as her child's other parent. She's saying thank you. It seems like a suggestion that might come from a book on how to be a good parent when divorced or separated. I don't think she is trying to hurt you.

Yeh Rose you're probably right. But from the LBS perspective, all of these types of messages truly $uck because they end up giving weird signals. When I got something like this from my W I would have the following thoughts:

1. Why is she being nice?
2. Why is she messaging me about stuff like this when she asked for a separation?
3. Is she trying to temp check me?
4. If I am so great, why the hell doesn't she want to be with me?

keep adding to that list.

I know they all don't make sense, but it adds to the already emotional turmoil the LBS is in.

Originally Posted By: Maika

Yeh Rose you're probably right. But from the LBS perspective, all of these types of messages truly $uck because they end up giving weird signals. When I got something like this from my W I would have the following thoughts:

1. Why is she being nice?
2. Why is she messaging me about stuff like this when she asked for a separation?
3. Is she trying to temp check me?
4. If I am so great, why the hell doesn't she want to be with me?

keep adding to that list.

I know they all don't make sense, but it adds to the already emotional turmoil the LBS is in.

I don't personally understand the confusion so I will try to explain the best I can pal.

What you need to realise is that you serve 2 separate roles...

You are a spouse/husband AND you are a father.

2 Separate roles..

You are thinking as a spouse, when your partner is talking to you as a father.

You cant view one coming from the other role.

As a spouse she doesn't want you currently. As a father she will always need you. Hence the conflicting messages/feelings.

She is talking to you as a father. Not a partner. Its all business at the moment.

If you take 'father talk' and try to imagine it as a desperate spouse wanting to fix things you will spin and spin.

Hope that makes sense.

Originally Posted By: Benito

Originally Posted By: Maika

Yeh Rose you're probably right. But from the LBS perspective, all of these types of messages truly $uck because they end up giving weird signals. When I got something like this from my W I would have the following thoughts:

1. Why is she being nice?
2. Why is she messaging me about stuff like this when she asked for a separation?
3. Is she trying to temp check me?
4. If I am so great, why the hell doesn't she want to be with me?

keep adding to that list.

I know they all don't make sense, but it adds to the already emotional turmoil the LBS is in.

I don't personally understand the confusion so I will try to explain the best I can pal.

What you need to realise is that you serve 2 separate roles...

You are a spouse/husband AND you are a father.

2 Separate roles..

You are thinking as a spouse, when your partner is talking to you as a father.

You cant view one coming from the other role.

As a spouse she doesn't want you currently. As a father she will always need you. Hence the conflicting messages/feelings.

She is talking to you as a father. Not a partner. Its all business at the moment.

If you take 'father talk' and try to imagine it as a desperate spouse wanting to fix things you will spin and spin.

Hope that makes sense.

I am sure M will agree with me on this...

Logically, it makes perfect sense. However, the issue is separating the logic of the situation from the emotion of the situation.

Emotionally, I would rather not hear about how great of a dad I am, because it reminds that is all I am. The Dad. Not the partner, spouse, lover, husband. I am the single dad struggling to find a new identity. I am the discarded relationship, the trashed romance.

So to me, while it is intended to be a compliment, it is a reminder of failure. At that point I would rather hear nothing at all.

In addition, it also makes it very difficult to 'forget' about her, when I can't seem to go a day without some sort of contact from her.

Things ARE getting better. I find myself not thinking about her nearly as much. I mostly stop wondering what she is up to, who she is doing, whatever. I am slowly coming into focus on my own life.

Originally Posted By: Jmstl

Originally Posted By: Benito

Originally Posted By: Maika

Yeh Rose you're probably right. But from the LBS perspective, all of these types of messages truly $uck because they end up giving weird signals. When I got something like this from my W I would have the following thoughts:

1. Why is she being nice?
2. Why is she messaging me about stuff like this when she asked for a separation?
3. Is she trying to temp check me?
4. If I am so great, why the hell doesn't she want to be with me?

keep adding to that list.

I know they all don't make sense, but it adds to the already emotional turmoil the LBS is in.

I don't personally understand the confusion so I will try to explain the best I can pal.

What you need to realise is that you serve 2 separate roles...

You are a spouse/husband AND you are a father.

2 Separate roles..

You are thinking as a spouse, when your partner is talking to you as a father.

You cant view one coming from the other role.

As a spouse she doesn't want you currently. As a father she will always need you. Hence the conflicting messages/feelings.

She is talking to you as a father. Not a partner. Its all business at the moment.

If you take 'father talk' and try to imagine it as a desperate spouse wanting to fix things you will spin and spin.

Hope that makes sense.

I am sure M will agree with me on this...

Logically, it makes perfect sense. However, the issue is separating the logic of the situation from the emotion of the situation.

Emotionally, I would rather not hear about how great of a dad I am, because it reminds that is all I am. The Dad. Not the partner, spouse, lover, husband. I am the single dad struggling to find a new identity. I am the discarded relationship, the trashed romance.

So to me, while it is intended to be a compliment, it is a reminder of failure. At that point I would rather hear nothing at all.

In addition, it also makes it very difficult to 'forget' about her, when I can't seem to go a day without some sort of contact from her.

Things ARE getting better. I find myself not thinking about her nearly as much. I mostly stop wondering what she is up to, who she is doing, whatever. I am slowly coming into focus on my own life.

Forgetting is trying to ignore or pushing feelings to one side. True healing is living through them. Because it hurts or feels uncomfortable doesn't mean its bad. Those feelings will subside - that is where the growth is.

View the pain differently.

Is growth.. not the end or punishment

So, I am done.

Not only is there OM there are TWO! And she has had PA with Both

AND she wants to be with one of our long time friends.

Eff this, I'm out

Oh man! I am so sorry to hear that.

What are you planning on doing? Listen, I don't have any evidence of my WAS having an A, but I know she's been exploring. I can't imagine how I would feel if I found out she had a EA/PA for reals. I think I would also probably feel done.

I know this is huge!! But, don't think of dropping DB/DR. It is the best chance of you making out of this whole and with strength. Stay strong friend!

Jm.....I am sorry dude. How did you find out. Unfortunately I think all of us will find out that reality sooner or later.

I echo M...stay stong and realize this is not your doing. You did nothing wrong to deserve. It's her issue so use that anger in a positive direction. You have young kids and will be in each others lives for a long time. Make her realize how bad she screwed up!

So sorry JM. That's a lot of info to come across. My only advice is to try and let your emotions settle before you do anything or make any decisions.

Hey man! Don't drop off the boards. Come back and tell us what's going on with you? I agree with what J and Kylo have said - you did nothing wrong to deserve this and let your emotions settle before make any decisions.

Friday night she was 20 minutes late dropping off the children. Second time in a row this has happened, and yet when I brought it up the first time, she said, It's not like it happens all the time. I left, and went to the gas station, because I should not be kept waiting with no message. Unfortunately she saw me when I was walking back, otherwise I would have made her wait at the door or something.

Yesterday, when I went to drop off the kids, she wasn't even there! She sent her parents to get the kids. I am absolutely livid about this. That was more time I could have spent with my kids. She knew at least an hour in advance, and did not notify me (takes her parents an hour to get there. They are also retired and on a fixed income). I believe she was with OM #2

I will not tolerate the disrespect of my time.

A 'friend' contacted me on FB and said that she was deleting us both, bc she was torn and didn't want to get caught in the middle. Turns out, she only removed me. So, at least one liar sniffed out.

I removed every one of our mutual friends that I met through her, even ones that are I guess you could say 'my side'. Most of them understand. And one of her friends was even like, I really disagree with W. When I come into town I want to see YOU. (She is basically like a sister to me)

I will DB in regards to showing her what she lost, but at this point folks, I am now looking forward to our divorce. I really don't think there is any saving here. I had to seriously ask myself, "Would I want her back right now?"...and the answer is No.

I got my BR fixed up a little. Got a new bedroom set, some nice sheets and pillows, and bought a 55" TV.

Quote:

Not only is there OM there are TWO! And she has had PA with Both

AND she wants to be with one of our long time friends.

You said this in your original post. How did you find out as in your response you said "you believed" she was with OM#2 but only referenced her disrespecting your time.

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

Quote:

Not only is there OM there are TWO! And she has had PA with Both

AND she wants to be with one of our long time friends.

You said this in your original post. How did you find out as in your response you said "you believed" she was with OM#2 but only referenced her disrespecting your time.

I know she was with #OM2 Saturday night. I just don't know if she was with him still at the time she was supposed to receive the kids.

If I understand J correctly, I am guessing you have some concrete evidence of the OMs.

Originally Posted By: Maika

If I understand J correctly, I am guessing you have some concrete evidence of the OMs.

Maika

Quote:

I will not tolerate the disrespect of my time.

Before you go shooting off your mouth, you need to ask yourself what you can do if this happens again. Don't get into a tit for tat situation.

Originally Posted By: sandi2

Quote:

I will not tolerate the disrespect of my time.

Before you go shooting off your mouth, you need to ask yourself what you can do if this happens again. Don't get into a tit for tat situation.

I have not shot my mouth off yet. I am trying to formulate how I will respond. Something along the lines of:

ON x date, you were x late
On x date, you were not present and sent a proxy to receive our children. Per our agreement, I am to be notified if you are not able to receive our children, and I am to have first chance to spend time with them if you cannot be with them.

I do not disrespect your time with the children, and have been and present every single exchange, and I expect you to do the same going forward.

I HAVE to say something, otherwise she is just going to continue to walk all over me.

Quote:

I HAVE to say something, otherwise she is just going to continue to walk all over me.

What if she says "tough $hit"? What are you going to do? It's not a court ordered agreement correct? Just a verbal? If she continues this behavior what recourse do you have or what are the consequences to her if she continues this behavior?

Originally Posted By: Joseph9

Quote:

I HAVE to say something, otherwise she is just going to continue to walk all over me.

What if she says "tough $hit"? What are you going to do? It's not a court ordered agreement correct? Just a verbal? If she continues this behavior what recourse do you have or what are the consequences to her if she continues this behavior?

The agreement we have is basically laid out in our separation agreement. So, I believe that I could maybe go to court and ask that it be enforced. I am not sure. I could get a lawyer involved that would probably better handle it.

Sounds like you could if she was in violation. I guess you would have to weigh the cost/benefit if she chooses to not abide by it. Is the cost of taking her back to court etc. worth it for what she is doing.

You guys will be in each other lives for a very long time to come.

Jmstl, you should definitely document these incidents. If there's an intention to adopt the separation agreement in the D, these incidents might allow you to push for something different.

Originally Posted By: Holding

Jmstl, you should definitely document these incidents. If there's an intention to adopt the separation agreement in the D, these incidents might allow you to push for something different.

Holding, I don't want to push for something different. The schedule we have now works very well. I see my children every day except every other Saturday.

All I want, is for her to drop the kids off on time, and be there when I drop them off.

I forgot to mention

Saturday was IC day. I was really looking forward to it.

The last time we had spoken(end of July) We were still trying to work it out. I gave my IC the details, and how W has been reacting, and her jaw dropped. She said it sounds like she still sending mixed signals, and she clearly needs to speak with an IC of her own, and to monitor the situation incase it starts to head south, for the kids' sake.

I explained to her how things have changed for me, how I am DBing, (and what that entailed), how I was putting my ICs techniques into practice (goal setting, assertiveness, focus) etc. She was extremely pleased. We refocused my goals. She wants to see me in more of a sounding board capacity, since it seems like I have been able to work through issues with my dad, and have processed the D pretty well. We agreed that I would meet 2 days before my D hearing, and then a week after I get back from my family fishing trip, so we can reassess the impact.

Sandi, (or anyone else), any advice on how to bring up the subject of her not being there to receive the kids that will come off the best way possible?

I have held off because I don't want to just shoot from the hip and make things worse.

So, the email exchange went exactly like I expected it would.

I presented her with a list of facts regarding her being late or not present to get the kids, and she deflected and said she did not know she was late, and thought the time was later.

She then mentioned that my tone was much different than in last few weeks, where it had been pleasant, and asked if lawyers needed to get involved. (No, they don't need to be involved. You need to just tell me if you are going to be late, or not there. It's not much to ask for)

Again, she kept deflecting about not being present, stating that I never had a problem with her parents watching the kids before, and not addressing the fact she wasn't there. (And of course she never apologizes, because she can't be wrong. It was MY fault for not communicating properly, and if /I/ had brought it up before, the issue could have already been resolved. Yeah...I already brought it up THREE TIMES!)

Anyway, I think we got to a more calm state, and she realizes I am not going to tolerate her $hit. But she also knows that if she simply exercises common courtesy, I can be extremely flexible (I am letting her get kids early, so she can visit relatives that live 4 hours away).

I bought a large whiteboard last night and started laying out my goals for 2017 and beyond. I think some people call it a vision board.

Haha... not taking responsibility and not apologizing seem to be common traits. I got in a dumb thing with W too about kids schedule two weeks back and she could barely bring herself to say that she needed to be more proactive. No apology offered either. hehe. Honestly, it was kinda fascinating to watch how she couldn't understand that she screwed up too and it wasn't just my fault.

I like white boards too and I use one at work to map out all kindsa stuff. Really useful.

Originally Posted By: Maika

Haha... not taking responsibility and not apologizing seem to be common traits. I got in a dumb thing with W too about kids schedule two weeks back and she could barely bring herself to say that she needed to be more proactive. No apology offered either. hehe. Honestly, it was kinda fascinating to watch how she couldn't understand that she screwed up too and it wasn't just my fault.

I like white boards too and I use one at work to map out all kindsa stuff. Really useful.

Yeah.

I am learning that she just isn't trustworthy.

She seems to 'forget' a lot. So either she is A-lying or B-scatterbrained or C-both.

She has started making purchases on the joint CC again (I can't get my name off it bc her credit is too bad), so that is another conversation that needs to come up.

As for goals, I already started on the first one under career. I signed up for a professional development course in web development. Its $200, but I feel worth it to start moving my career one way or the other. Also reached out to some connections on Linkedin for some advice. We will see how it goes.

Well Friday was another night of her trying to gaslight me, and make it seem like I was the one who was wrong and crazy, for not 'communicating' about the drop off time. I mentioned that I had told her 3 times through written communication what time the drop off was. She insisted she was confused and even sometimes sat around waiting, and wanted an earlier time.

She brought up how it was wrong of me to call her out for not being there to receive the kids, as it was 'her time' and she could do what she wanted. I pointed out that they were MY children, not her parent's children, and that I should get a chance to keep them longer if she won't be there. She said if my parents were there in my stead, she wouldn't bat an eye. I pointed out that once again she was deflecting off the issue, and she got upset.

She said she did not want me going on the family trip that was planned for next year. I mentioned that I thought she and I would be in a better place in 10 months, and she responded "I'm not too sure about that". Then she mentioned her sister feeling awkward about it (I just talked to her sister, as I have done several times, and she insisted that she still wanted me to go and it wasn't a problem).

She lies to me about what should be small, minor things. I cannot trust anything that she says.

She said she didn't want put things like holiday and vacation schedules through the court. I told her it was for my protection, in case she gets nasty. She said she NEVER would get nasty. She has, she just does not accept it, and tries to reason her way out of it.

I was there almost 30 minutes. I finally looked at her and said, I understand where you are coming from. Try looking at everything from my perspective, and you will see why I am taking the actions that I am.

I told her I had somewhere I had to be soon. She threw her hands up, said whatever, then walked away.

Saturday, she texted and wanted to drop the kids off four hours early.

So last Sunday she wasn't home. This Sunday she drops them off early (I agreed to 2 hours early. More kid time, but she doesn't get everything she wants).

Pretty sure she was with OM#1 or #2. I don't think OM#3 is in town right now (I could be wrong though).

She did post pictures of my kids at our 'friends' house, (The one who lied and backstabbed me). That made me pretty upset.

Other than that, I barely thought of her at all.

I went to the Casino Friday, A festival and a hockey game Sat, and worked on the car and programming on Sunday.

Really good weekend overall

Quote:

I mentioned that I thought she and I would be in a better place in 10 months, and she responded "I'm not too sure about that".

What are you trying to do when you insert these type of statements to her?

The reason I ask is b/c I see LBH's do this a lot. It's like a promoter trying to get his plug in every chance he gets....or a salesman's pressuring technique......and it is a huge turnoff.

In cases with a WW, you should be the one saying you "aren't too sure you'll be in a better place in 10 months".....instead of her saying it. As long as you are telling her things similar, she is going to be determined to prove you wrong! Don't you get it? You are pursuing and putting pressure on her when you say this stuff.

If this is the hill you want to die on....then don't shoot yourself in the foot by suggesting you'll be in a good enough place to share a vacation with her family in 10 months. That was certainly not the time! Frankly, I think it is in poor taste to plan on going on a vacation with your in-laws, when you are ready to go to war over these type of issues. At least, keep it to yourself.

I am not saying you should or should not have called her out. I'm saying when you call her out, you need to present a figure who stands on principle. In this case, maintain a business style approach. If she brings up other things, keep to the subject at hand. To suggest you would be in a better place in 10 months to join in on a family vacation....takes away the the spot light on why you called her out. Her attention is on proving you wrong about the trip. See what I mean?

Originally Posted By: sandi2

Quote:

I mentioned that I thought she and I would be in a better place in 10 months, and she responded "I'm not too sure about that".

What are you trying to do when you insert these type of statements to her?

The reason I ask is b/c I see LBH's do this a lot. It's like a promoter trying to get his plug in every chance he gets....or a salesman's pressuring technique......and it is a huge turnoff.

In cases with a WW, you should be the one saying you "aren't too sure you'll be in a better place in 10 months".....instead of her saying it. As long as you are telling her things similar, she is going to be determined to prove you wrong! Don't you get it? You are pursuing and putting pressure on her when you say this stuff.

If this is the hill you want to die on....then don't shoot yourself in the foot by suggesting you'll be in a good enough place to share a vacation with her family in 10 months. That was certainly not the time! Frankly, I think it is in poor taste to plan on going on a vacation with your in-laws, when you are ready to go to war over these type of issues. At least, keep it to yourself.

I am not saying you should or should not have called her out. I'm saying when you call her out, you need to present a figure who stands on principle. In this case, maintain a business style approach. If she brings up other things, keep to the subject at hand. To suggest you would be in a better place in 10 months to join in on a family vacation....takes away the the spot light on why you called her out. Her attention is on proving you wrong about the trip. See what I mean?

Sandi, when I said that, I presented it in a business like manner. In that I did not want to go because of her. I only wanted to go because of my kids, and there is no reason we can't get along well enough to give them a good family vacation. My daughter is the one that wants me to go. I did not say it as in we would have a better realtionship.

I did not bring up not going on the vacation. Just last week she was encouraging me to go. Once again she flip flopped, likely because I put my foot down on her behavior.

Additionally, I am done trying to save the marriage, and I am actively looking forward to the divorce now.

She stated previously that therapy would show that she was not the person for me. She proved that one right with her attitude and disrespect.I deserve better.

Originally Posted By: Jmstl

She said she did not want me going on the family trip that was planned for next year.

Serious question- why would you want to go?

Quote:

I mentioned that I thought she and I would be in a better place in 10 months

Don't talk about the future. Sandi's rule #5: "Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject."

Quote:

She said she didn't want put things like holiday and vacation schedules through the court. I told her it was for my protection, in case she gets nasty.

OK well I think the courts require that all the visitation be outlined in the decree, but of course what the two of you choose to do may or may not be reflected by what's in the decree. XW and I agreed before the D that we would be flexible with each other regardless of what was in the decree, and we have been. We talk about upcoming holidays and work it out in advance. For example, in the decree I think it says we switch every other Thanksgiving, but in actuality she usually takes the kids to her mom's on Thanksgiving eve and day and I take them to my mom's Thanksgiving night and the next day. So technically you're both right, it needs to be in the decree but you'll also need to have some flexibility in coordinating exact details together.

I'm not sure either of you have thought about this, but with your kids being 1 and 6, you have 17 years of this ahead of you! All I can say is try and be flexible with her because there will be times she needs it and times you need it.

Michele says in DR that when kids are involved, there's no such thing as D. I'm not sure any WAS really realizes just how true that is, as co-parents your lives are forever intertwined. She may dream of a new life with a clean break and a new OM but that's unrealistic.

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander

Originally Posted By: Jmstl

She said she did not want me going on the family trip that was planned for next year.

Serious question- why would you want to go?

Quote:

I mentioned that I thought she and I would be in a better place in 10 months

Don't talk about the future. Sandi's rule #5: "Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject."

Quote:

She said she didn't want put things like holiday and vacation schedules through the court. I told her it was for my protection, in case she gets nasty.

OK well I think the courts require that all the visitation be outlined in the decree, but of course what the two of you choose to do may or may not be reflected by what's in the decree. XW and I agreed before the D that we would be flexible with each other regardless of what was in the decree, and we have been. We talk about upcoming holidays and work it out in advance. For example, in the decree I think it says we switch every other Thanksgiving, but in actuality she usually takes the kids to her mom's on Thanksgiving eve and day and I take them to my mom's Thanksgiving night and the next day. So technically you're both right, it needs to be in the decree but you'll also need to have some flexibility in coordinating exact details together.

I'm not sure either of you have thought about this, but with your kids being 1 and 6, you have 17 years of this ahead of you! All I can say is try and be flexible with her because there will be times she needs it and times you need it.

Michele says in DR that when kids are involved, there's no such thing as D. I'm not sure any WAS really realizes just how true that is, as co-parents your lives are forever intertwined. She may dream of a new life with a clean break and a new OM but that's unrealistic.

Why would I want to go?

My kids

I have been VERY flexible with her. I have taken the kids multiple times while she goes and does God knows what.

I was not trying to encourage talk about the future, as in a relationship with her. I said that I thought we would be in a better place in 10 months, not as in our relationship, but being able to get along as co-parents. She had even stated so, about a month ago, when she brought up the trip.

I told her I was done, and that I had moved on.

But in a way, I am relieved not to go. I would enjoy myself, but only for my kids. I think things will get better coparenting wise, but I can't even stand to look at her right now.

For the third time since July, she has brought up the schedule.

Hey- I am in no need to change anything but wanted to assess with you if you think the current every other day schedule is working well?

The other two times I stated I was very happy with the schedule and did not want to change it.

I am trying to not mind read this, but why are you asking again, after I specifically said I would tell you if there was an issue

So..
/forgetting/ when drop off time is
not being available to receive kids
wanting to drop them off 4 hours early
hinting at wanting to change the schedule.

So either A. she wants to make sure the schedule is good before it becomes final, or B. She wants to change it and is trying to feel me out, or C. some other reason I don't know of (BC I am not trying to mind read)

I choose C. Some other totally illogical reason you don't know of and that you couldn't imagine in your wildest dreams.

Sitting outside the courtroom right now.
I feel like I am going to vomit.
Emotionally, I have pretty damned good at detaching. But after 9 years 364 days of marriage, I am about to be divorced. I know I can and will get through this, but I am nearly overwhelmed with anger and sadness right now. Hopefully the day will get better.

I am really looking forward to my trip tomorrow.

Be strong, man! It's almost over.

Hey man! I am sorry for what you have to go through today - I can't even imagine all the feelings you're going through. I hope it's quick and so you don't have to endure it for too long and can spend the rest of the day processing it.

I am really glad to hear that you're thinking about your trip and something happy for yourself.

Again, sorry where you're at right now. It's okay to be in the moment and feel what you're feeling. This is some painful $hit. I wish I was there and I'd take you for a drink and we could share some smokes. I will do that in your honour today.

Hang in there JM.....put your earbuds in a crank up your favorite tunes! Something to help you with your mojo!! You got this bro....it doesn't define you!

How you hangin' bro? Hope to hear from you soon.

So,

I am officially divorced. It [censored], but there is nothing I can do about it but move on.

After I posted Thursday, I went into court. She almost did not make it into court on time, and the clerk/lawyer/whatever said the case was going to be dismissed if she didn't get there by the time the judge came out, even though we were last on the docket.

She shows up, in the nick of time, and sits on the opposite side of court.

She is not well put together at all (Some said this was on purpose, but w/e)

No Makeup, Hair not done, dressed pretty poorly. This is not how she has been dressing as of late. This is how she looks when she is in depression. (She told me Wed she was 'very sad' and 'can't stand to be alone, that is why I spend so much time with X'

Well, I would be surprised if she told me she was depressed. She was wearing an infinity scarf (She also wore one Sunday when I dropped off the kids and I was like...huh)

Now I see why. She was attacked by a vampire. HUGE bite mark right on her throat and 3 on her neck. REAL CLASSY.

Well, onto the case...um....her D paperwork was never ACTUALLY FILED. YEAH, we were set to get a Separation only. OH HELL NO. We scrambled, filled out new paperwork, got it notarized, and filed just in time. She tells me how nice and handsome I looked. I just said 'Thanks'.

We enter back into the courtroom, and she sits next to me, about a person width away. I catch her out of the corner of my eye staring at me several times. I look over at her and give her a 'what?' face. She says "you have something on your shoulder" and brushes it off.

One case is putting us to sleep. I draw a bunch of zzzzs on some paper and flip it over for her to see, she smiles and stifles a laugh (first time we shared a laugh in a while and it is while getting divorced)

A short while later, I catch her staring at me again? It's one of those, as I would describe "this [censored]" looks.

I lean over, smack her arm playfully and whisper "Cheer up. You'll be divorced soon. You're getting what you wanted"

So, it is finally our case, and it goes fairly smoothly. Until child support. The judge looks it over and turns to me and says Mr. Jmstl, you want me to approve this? (we asked for no child support or alimony)

He turns to her and says Ms. Jmstl, this isn't fair and equitable.

At this point, she starts to turn pale, and that slight smirk she had on her face quickly fades. She knows what is about to happen.

You see, during this process she kept throwing in my face that she was being nice by not asking for support. I never argued, but I would simply respond 'review form 14' and leave it at that.

I make less than her. I pay half of all the expenses. I get the children 50% of the time. AND I carry the insurance. This is where she knows she is about to get bent over. The judge says he is going to order her to pay child support...to ME! A small grin crosses my face, while her's turns red. When he asks if that is a problem to her, her voice cracks as she said it was no problem at all (it was, and I know she is broke again, after blowing through all the money she got from the house sale).

Because I am not a jerk, and because I don't want to stick it to her too bad, when the judge asks if I am okay with the amount, I told him that we had come up with a plan and it worked well for us.

He said it did not work well for him, and I was getting screwed, and I was entitled to X amount, and I couldn't just leave it, that she HAD to pay something. I finally said 'I feel covering the cost of insurance for the children would be fair and equitable' (This is about 1/4 of what I could have gotten). The judge agrees, and we are divorced.

We walk out together, she wishes me a good trip with the kids, and says she has to go to the bathroom. Her face is red and her eyes are welling with tears. (I won't mind read why)

I am outside first. I am standing outside and see her leave, but she doesn't see me. She is shuffling her feet, shoulders slumped, and then she hits the corner and turns around, as if looking for someone (probably her new bf)

I head to work. She texts later and claims to have a flat tire and asks me to get the kids, and says she would ask her mom if I couldn't

I tell her I can't and that If I didn't have to spend the rest of my PTO on getting divorced I would have been happy to.

Turns out, she got them herself, but not until real late.

I feel bad for her. I have no expectations but I can only imagine from her words and actions she is starting to realize the full gravity of the situation.

I packed up the car and went fishing for a great weekend

I know today had to be one if the toughest in your life. But you need to stop feeling bad about XW. She got herself in this mess. So you have no obligation to feel anything in regards to her based decisions.

As for child support, I know you want to look out for XW. But that money is for yiur children. Like you my W will owe me child support and I ain't turning down nothing. I cover the insurance for S13. And like your W mine got some money issues, but that is for her deal with. Those life choices are going to start settling in. And OM won't help with one bill.

You a good man though. Especially considering that she showed up late. And with bite marks on her neck. No class all the way to the end of the MR.

Thanks for the update JM. I am glad to hear that you went and had a great weekend after this really painful experience.

About the finances, you are good man not trying to stick it to W, but will the financial split that you've agreed to be enough for you to take care of the kids? As Tread said, the money would be for your children and when they're with you. Can you manage that with what you got?

I can manage with what I got, whether I got the CS or not.

However, this does not leave me with a ton of extra money to save.

I perhaps should have gone for the full amount, but I also had a reason behind not taking all I could, although it will likely bite me in the rear.

I am working on a career change, and plan to make quite a large sum more than what I am making now. I am hoping XW (sigh, first time I had to type that) will recognize that I tried to not bend her over and take her for everything, and not take ME to court if I end up making more money.

It's a bold move Cotton. Let's see if it pays off.

Well now you can work on that awesome career change and leave her in the dust. Coming out from a vampire's lair to court with the get up she had - wow, just wow.

So tonight was just completely filled with drama.

xW yesterday texted saying she wants to move the kids from my insurance to hers. This immediately sent up a red flag and I had a suspicion why.

She wants to move them to her insurance, because I pay for it. And because I pay for the insurance, that was the main reason the court said she had to pay support.

Apparently she is absolutely livid that she has to pay support. She had asked that I be reasonable and do what is best for her and the kids. I told her I was reasonable when I did not accept the full amount I was entitled to. She said I was entitled to nothing. She said she will never write 'child support' in the memo on the check, because the sheer thought of it makes her want to vomit, and that a real man would have turned it down. (I did originally turn it down 'Your honor, she and I have worked out an agreement that works well for us, so child support is not necessary')

She needs a new car, she has had to take a part time job, and says she lives paycheck to paycheck. She said that she took on all the debt and didn't try to get me to pay for it. I pointed out that she did that because she did not want me to fight her on the divorce, and now she has to accept the consequences. She said that she doesn't want anything from me, and I should want nothing from her, but I am screwing her over because I am angry about the divorce. I told her I am the happiest I have been in years, and I thanked her for asking for the divorce so I could finally see the how things really were.

She doesn't want to pay CS, but she wants to keep her same level of lifestyle. She doesn't want to cut back on her expenses.

I told her that the court ordered me to pay for insurance and I would continue to do so, unless and until the divorce decree was modified. I stated that I was protecting myself.

She asked why I cared what the court said, that we could switch the insurance around without a court order. I stated I was not comfortable with that not being official with the court.

Hey bro! How are things? It's great you stood up for the insurance issue and not let her steamroll you. How has post D life been so far?

Originally Posted By: Maika

Hey bro! How are things? It's great you stood up for the insurance issue and not let her steamroll you. How has post D life been so far?

Post D life has been mostly amazing. Aside from the occasional drama, I am truely enjoying my life. I had to put off KB, bc I apparently have carpal tunnel in both arms and a nerve inpingement.

I started dating again, and it has been a little rough, but not for reasons you may think. I apparently had a plethora of ladies who want me. Between online dating apps and IRL meetings, it is pretty crazy. To the point where I had to start a separate calendar, and have to start weeding them down. I'm basically on 1st-3rd dates 3-4 nights a week. A little painful on the pocketbook though. I feel so much more alive. I really hope things work out for you, and I never would have left my xW, but she brought it on.

speaking of xW, she has already expressed regret over the D, and it has only been a month! She apologized for her behavior over the Child support, and admitted she was just butthurt over it. We were together Friday for our daughter's blue belt test and it was fairly pleasant.

Hey man! Good to hear from you. Sorry about the carpal tunnel.

Wow, dating life seems bananas lol. I hope that you're okay being out there with other women and that it's not being counter productive to your personal growth goals.

Good that she apologized for her behavior at the child support hearing. Looks like you've moved on and are in a better place. You're able to come together for your daughter and that's awesome.

Keep on building yourself and pop in with updates when you can. I am about to enter a bit of a $hitstorm later this week and preparing myself to get through it emotionally and mentally.

Keep us updated with the adventures in dating. Could definitely use those types of updates, even if the stories are a bit crazy at times.

So a few updates on life

Dating has been really crazy, but I have toned it back quite a bit.

I feel that I got my rebound out of the way. I had a few short lived relationships that were purely physical. ( and a few that ended because I wasn't physical fast enough, go figure)

Recently however, I met someone that I am super into (from Tinder of all places!) We have been talking for over a month, and have had five dates so far. We are taking it sort of slow, but it seems to be really worth the patience (We finally ended a date other than the parking lot last night). She is basically everything that I feel I need.

The thing I have noticed, post D, is that I am much more able to identify my needs and evaluate if someone is able to provide me with what I need. IC has really been a big boon for this. Hence the rapid pace of some of these relationships.

Health wise, things are not the best. I have had an MRI and a nerve conduction test. I have degenerative disc disease, carpal tunnel in my right arm, and an entrapped nerve in my left arm which requires surgery. Since I can't do KB atm, I hike 10mi every weekend (5 mi on Sat and Sundays).

Things with xW seem to been good atm. She inquires about my personal life, and I don't mind sharing some things. But I made it clear last week that we were not getting back together. She asked if I wanted information on her boyfriend. I told her I already had all the information I needed on him. She told me about a stalker she apparently had. That scared me. For the safety of my children, and her as a human being. I'm not ever thinking we will recon, and I am okay with that. But if we can maintain where we are right now, I would be okay, no friendlier no nastier.

Dating has affected my personal goals, sadly. I have fallen behind in the online course that I was taking, but I am hoping to be able to catch up soon. It is a lesson I had to learn, but I guess a worthwhile one.

Quote:

Recently however, I met someone that I am super into (from Tinder of all places!) We have been talking for over a month, and have had five dates so far. We are taking it sort of slow, but it seems to be really worth the patience (We finally ended a date other than the parking lot last night). She is basically everything that I feel I need.

The thing I have noticed, post D, is that I am much more able to identify my needs and evaluate if someone is able to provide me with what I need. IC has really been a big boon for this. Hence the rapid pace of some of these relationships.

Well, apparently I can't read a situation. (although everyone I have talked to has pointed out that I did nothing wrong)

After seven dates I get:

I have so much fun with you and you are such an amazing person, but I do not feel the chemistry.

Um...When you take it suuuuper slow, I feel like chemistry starts to fall? Maybe I am wrong. Maybe it is how you define chemistry. But if you don't really want to be physical with someone, don't bombard them with innuendo and tease them about it.

Well, there is xW shadow, following me around again, taunting me.

I so hate this crap.

Back to the drawing board. Or a dark room.

Dont take any "rejection" in the dating game as some sort of sign that you are not enough or you are doing things 'wrong'.
There are no rules to this.

Im not into "hippy nonense" or whatever you want to call it, however, I am a massive believer that we do give off certain vibes or energy that we dont understand.

I believe we attract people through these vibes and when you are happy, married and content more times than not you get attention when you dont need it, on the flip side, when you want it - you cant seem to get it right.

The best chance you have of meeting someone long term is to live for yourself and to draw happiness from within and dont have meeting someone as the "end goal".

Your good enough as you are.

I know for me and others I have spoken to, we are more attracted to the self confident comfortable in their on skin type, rather than someone who you can tell is looking to meet someone.

Chin up

As I was still reading your latest post Jmstl, I was thinking, well how do you define chemistry, and then you said it yourself! So help us all, and perhaps yourself as well and tell us what happened. 7 dates... Was there anything physical that happened? Did you totally make out with her? How soon in or was that #5? If not, why not? As Benito said it really is a balancing act. Taking things slow does not nessisarily mean nothing physical happens. This almost sounds like you were friend zoned. She loves hanging out with you, enjoys time, thinks you are great but just doesn't want to jump your bones. Sound about right? I'm kinda guessing here but may have some thoughts comments and advice but am not sure it would apply without knowing more. Hope you'll share.

Originally Posted By: DonH

As I was still reading your latest post Jmstl, I was thinking, well how do you define chemistry, and then you said it yourself! So help us all, and perhaps yourself as well and tell us what happened. 7 dates... Was there anything physical that happened? Did you totally make out with her? How soon in or was that #5? If not, why not? As Benito said it really is a balancing act. Taking things slow does not nessisarily mean nothing physical happens. This almost sounds like you were friend zoned. She loves hanging out with you, enjoys time, thinks you are great but just doesn't want to jump your bones. Sound about right? I'm kinda guessing here but may have some thoughts comments and advice but am not sure it would apply without knowing more. Hope you'll share.

DonH

Starting with Date 2, we started 'totally making out' But things just ended in the parking lot of wherever we drove to. I had told her that for date #5 I wanted to just watch a movie instead of going out, and she agreed. She claimed she was 'in the repair shop' that night as things started to heat up (we ended up making out for 2.5 hours) so everything was waist up. Claimed the same thing date #6.
I had warned her of possible 'issues', and she said it was probably just nerves and no judgement.

Now mind you, she told me A. that she wanted to go slow from the beginning. B, we always had this back and forth innuendo about sex.

She talked about how cute I was, and how thoughtful and respectful I am (she joked I didn't even touch her butt till the fourth date. I was trying to be a gentleman) How focused, and ambitious I seemed to be, and how she was just generally happy being around me, and that she liked me.

When she asked what we were doing date #7, I laid out a list of things. Hiking, lunch, sex?, shopping, christmas lights. She even brought this essential oil thing for 6yo D who has trouble sleeping.

She seemed totally okay with it. We held hands, we laughed, we trolled each other, we smiled. It seemed almost magical to me. So when she said she wanted to call it a night, I really thought she was just tired. there was no indication she wasn't interested.

She said she wanted to give us a fair shot and see if feelings developed. But holy hell, after 1.5 months of talking and 7 dates, I would have thought she would have figured it out sooner.

Probably TMI, but it does feel good to talk about it, I guess.

Originally Posted By: Jmstl

She claimed she was 'in the repair shop' that night...

So you checked her headlights, but are you certain she didn't want the oil checked and the tires rotated?

Maybe just a lube job

Originally Posted By: doodler

Originally Posted By: Jmstl

She claimed she was 'in the repair shop' that night...

So you checked her headlights, but are you certain she didn't want the oil checked and the tires rotated?

Hah. She had me slam the trunk a few times.
The next time was the same, but she pulled out the dipstick.

So I am totally boggled.

She was warned there was a possibility the transmission could kick into the lower gear, as it hadn't been driven in a very long time.

She said no judgements, as she had only gone out for a ride one time in seven years, but maybe that was part of the issue.

I think you should offer a wash, wax and complete detailing. If that goes well, then you change all of the fluids.

I hate not having an edit button.

This was a car I was totally willing to lease to own (even though I originally wasn't looking to lease anything.

To get through the pain, I went out last night and found another car.

More issues with the stick shift and transmission.

So I have been able to drive 2 with some difficulty, another 2 ended up stuck in the parking lot.

Dr says it's mental, and does nothing else.
IC says "You'll get over it eventually"

Originally Posted By: Jmstl

IC says "You'll get over it eventually"

Yeah, that's because the IC can't write prescriptions. Who's going to put up with "eventually"?

Go to an MD to have a nitrous oxide system installed and all will be well.

That was surreal

and awesome

Originally Posted By: doodler

Originally Posted By: Jmstl

IC says "You'll get over it eventually"

Yeah, that's because the IC can't write prescriptions. Who's going to put up with "eventually"?

Go to an MD to have a nitrous oxide system installed and all will be well.

When I was there to talk about my arm, I asked about some NOS. Doc said, Your transmission isn't completely broken, so no NOS for you.

Find a different doctor. Ask around. Even a doc in the box will do. There's no need to have to go through the agony of dealing with that. It ridiculous of a doctor to ask someone to suffer like that.

Originally Posted By: doodler

Find a different doctor. Ask around. Even a doc in the box will do. There's no need to have to go through the agony of dealing with that. It ridiculous of a doctor to ask someone to suffer like that.

I've gotten all these metaphors except Doc in a box. Can you elaborate on that one?

Well first of all, you invested a lot of time and effort into the one woman and it didn't work out but just accept it and move on. It happens! Happened to me too, I was dating one lady and thought everything was going fine and she just suddenly went dead silent on me. I thought maybe something happened to her until she unfriended me from FB, to this day I don't know what the deal was. I just wrote her off and moved on to the next one.

Originally Posted By: Jmstl

Dr says it's mental, and does nothing else.
IC says "You'll get over it eventually"

They are more than likely correct. I had a lot of trouble in that regard as well. Couldn't figure out why as it had never been an issue before. Finally started taking an over-the-counter supplement that took care of that. Eventually that "supplement" was pulled due to having an ingredient that was supposed to be prescription-only apparently! Anyway I just kept it up (no pun intended!) and eventually didn't need the supplement anymore. I think it was just anxiety over having sex with someone other than my XW, it just felt like I was doing something wrong. I think we wire our brains to be faithful to that person and it takes a while to rewire our brains!

Originally Posted By: Jmstl

I've gotten all these metaphors except Doc in a box. Can you elaborate on that one?

It's slang for one of those walk-in clinics.

By the way time for a new thread

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander

Well first of all, you invested a lot of time and effort into the one woman and it didn't work out but just accept it and move on. It happens! Happened to me too, I was dating one lady and thought everything was going fine and she just suddenly went dead silent on me. I thought maybe something happened to her until she unfriended me from FB, to this day I don't know what the deal was. I just wrote her off and moved on to the next one.

Originally Posted By: Jmstl

Dr says it's mental, and does nothing else.
IC says "You'll get over it eventually"

They are more than likely correct. I had a lot of trouble in that regard as well. Couldn't figure out why as it had never been an issue before. Finally started taking an over-the-counter supplement that took care of that. Eventually that "supplement" was pulled due to having an ingredient that was supposed to be prescription-only apparently! Anyway I just kept it up (no pun intended!) and eventually didn't need the supplement anymore. I think it was just anxiety over having sex with someone other than my XW, it just felt like I was doing something wrong. I think we wire our brains to be faithful to that person and it takes a while to rewire our brains!

Yeah, AS. I think you are completely right.

I had been such a faithful husband for so long, that even now, it just feels... "off" to have another woman put her hands on me.

The problem, as I see it, is that this is creating a cycle. There are issues. Then come the negative thoughts from the issues, which fuels more issues next time.

I have tried to just clear my head and just relax, but even when I feel I have done that, things still don't work.

And I don't know how to even broach the subject.

"Oh by the way, my world got so destroyed and shattered that even though I find you really physically and mentally attractive, my stuff doesn't work?"

I would be fine takings a 'supplement' for a while, but I guess I will have to do some research.

It is humiliating.

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