Previous thread.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...=10&page=11The story so far.
Its been 1 month since i confronted W with hard proof of A, this was 1 month after BD. She only admitted to EA but EA or PA its the same to me now. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a PA and to be honest i dont even think i'll react to it now.
To her credit after confrontation she has committed to transparency, took leave of work to avoid OM (her boss) and is now changing jobs. Everything i could have asked for to be but she still maintains the ILYBINILWY. Actual she even said her heart is closed and will never open for me again.
Despite this she is still here, no signs of moving out, as far as i can tell being faithful or just laying low (i have extensive means to verify aka snoop), we are spending more time together ^shrug^. She also kisses me before going off to work.
Now for a twist, without meaning to the OM's wife i fear is becoming attached to me. We have been keeping some contact via messaging only to keep an eye on our spouses but this has grown in frequency as the OM's wife vents about her H. She even tells me she communicates more with me now than she does with her H. Apparently he is not making any effort at home. I was trying to encourage her to GAL when she has practically asked we meet up for drinks.
So here i am, trying to get one womans attention (my W) and hopefully avoiding another womans attention (OM W).
Natus,
This has 180 written all over it...
I think you should tell your wife that you've gone out with the OM's wife several times, and that, although you realize that you don't love the OM's wife she is going to have your baby. Let your wife know that you'd like to raise the child in your family.
Make sure your wife knows that you think the OM's wife is not suitable as a mother, but you would like to continue seeing her for the occasional tryst.
On the other hand, maybe that's terrible DB advice. Scratch that.
Hmmm i do like your first option Doodler. I want more kids but my W doesnt soooo ...dum de dum dum.
In all seriousness though i will need to call her (OM W) to tell her how much of a bad idea it is OR i can avoid her like crazy.
Natus,
You need to start thinking like a WS...
You should call the OM's wife several times a day and text her constantly so that you can tell her how much you don't want to be around her or ever talk to her again. Then, blame your wife for making you do that.
I think you should tell your wife that you've gone out with the OM's wife several times, and that, although you realize that you don't love the OM's wife she is going to have your baby. Let your wife know that you'd like to raise the child in your family.
OMG! The OM's W is pregnant with your child? And your W knows nothing?
OMG! The OM's W is pregnant with your child?
I don't think so!
Oh Doodler......stop it. You nearly gave me a heart attack.
I dont know when to believe doodler. Perhaps his WW hijacked his thread.
Sandi, our love, it's just no good.
LOL that would be some grade A sitcom or reality tv if it really did happen.
Im having a wierd 24hrs.
First OM's W and today a smokingly hot girl from another division that has been visiting my section repeatedly (im the only guy here) put up a newspaper clipping of me that was in yesterday's newspaper (Kickboxing related). She was using my shoulder as a tape holder to put the clipping up on the office wall. I didn't complain.
Oh please dont let this be a dream....
Doodler dont spoil it for me.
Fine, i'll wake you up!
What attracts you to your W? Focus on that.
Shush, let me be in the moment.
Glad to hear that you got some pma boost.
But hey, commercial break over. Back to real-life drama. Possible to use this pma boost to get your sexy back when interacting with W?
Sounds like you're not too bad in the sexy department. What else attracted W to you when you were dating?
First OM's W and today a smokingly hot girl from another division that has been visiting my section repeatedly (im the only guy here) put up a newspaper clipping of me that was in yesterday's newspaper (Kickboxing related). She was using my shoulder as a tape holder to put the clipping up on the office wall. I didn't complain.
Natus,
I just put some tape on my shoulder and I'm waiting for a hot chick to show up. I need this so badly right now.
I can see it - guys in office want to know why i can't stop laughing!
Glad to hear that you got some pma boost.
But hey, commercial break over. Back to real-life drama. Possible to use this pma boost to get your sexy back when interacting with W?
Sounds like you're not too bad in the sexy department. What else attracted W to you when you were dating?
Definately brightened my day alittle bit today. Couldnt wipe the grin of my wife.
I personally think im just okay looking but have received a fair share of attention, from both sexes even
(ladies i understand, i know what it feels like to have dudes stare creepily at you) Its never been an issue though as throughout the M i always wore the husband / daddy hat proudly.
What did attract W to me? We met at a poorly little pool hall. She was on the next table and i was doing my vampire gaze thingy. Bumped into her as she was leaving so i asked for her number. She played hard to get so i said okay and turned to leave. She then blurted out her number.
She was playing the field at this time, we both were. We were young, carefree, party animals. she said i wasnt like other guys. I didnt fly off the handle, i was calmn and cool and collected even though she had been out all night with other guys. After that we started dating exclusively.
The first time she said i love you was in a dingi little diner, completely out of nowhere while i was stuffing my face with breakfast. But she dumped me on the same day for another guy.
I was crushed, but i was trying to get over it. Her friends saw me going for lunch with a girl a week or two later. Happen to bump into W that same night. She put on her charms, i fell for it and then we were together again and the rest is history.
Fine, i'll wake you up!
What attracts you to your W? Focus on that.
Interestingly enough W is same build, height, hair style as the smoking hot chick. However I know and love every inch of my W down to her smell. The tiny freckles on her face that always reminds me of constellations. Thinking about it makes me sad. I am losing the only person that completes me. She gave me purpose and she gave me our son.
Confidence. It seems like your W is drawn to you when you're confident and you show that you can make it with or without her.
And Natus, you can't let your wife complete you. Forget Jerry Mcguire. You complete you and you must give your life purpose.
When we give our spouses so much power, we live in a lot of fear. And fear makes us unattractive and fear makes us spin.
I have a feeling that your sitch will change when you let go of the fear. But then my worry would be that your W seems to want what she can't have. This is something that you would have to address, but perhaps not just yet.
Hi JksD, I am letting go of that fear or at least growing numb to it. Atleast that is what it feels like.
As for my wife wanting what she can't have. Im afraid by then i will probably have moved on. That is a new fear now. That no matter what my family is broken no matter what i do.
Before her i was purposeless, empty, just living for the thrill day by day, doing everything with gusto. If i didn't settle down i'd probably end up being a nomad. I still feel the call, heck if we didnt have kids i'd probably pack my gear, hop on a motorcycle and disappear.
Oh man where is yesterday's high.
Hey, you know that things won't always be so low.
Go do something that makes you happy. Without using any tape.
And if your W regrets her decision when you're ready to move on, well, you could give her the db website.
...pack my gear, hop on a motorcycle and disappear.
That sounds like the perfect vacation.
...pack my gear, hop on a motorcycle and disappear.
That sounds like the perfect vacation.
It does sound perfect. Alas my son, schedule and myriad of other things will not let me go. Quite frankly my W wont be able to cope with my son alone either.
Past week or two We have been doing everything like a normal family, spending alot of time together. Had a good weekend, too good that i deluded myself into thinking we were on the mend. Got shot down pretty fast last night. Atleast im not confused about our position anymore.
While i have been doing great on 180s i havent gone dark / LRT. I think its time that i do.
Any tips on still living together / same bed going dark and LRT?
Past week or two We have been doing everything like a normal family, spending alot of time together. Had a good weekend, too good that i deluded myself into thinking we were on the mend. Got shot down pretty fast last night. At least im not confused about our position anymore.
Natus,
I'm sorry you got shot down. That happened to me a number of times and it s-u-c-k-e-d (avoiding censorship) every time.
Natus,
Correct me if I read your sitch wrongly, your W has promised NC with OM. Has she carried out her promise? Is there any way to check?
If there is no indication that she has resumed contact with OM, is there a reason why you would want to go dim?
Are you in the piecing but not quite stage?
Hi JksD,
No we are not piecing. She is just laying low, not giving me anything in the hopes i give up and set her free.
She wants to leave but she doesnt want to be the one to walk away. She wants to wait for me to do it.
Interestingly enough yes, she has gone NC with OM but in her head its only temporary. I know that for sure cause i hear her discuss it on the phone with a GF.
Maybe you could try getting sandi? She's good with sitch like yours
So i talked it over with my IC. According to him shes likely been telling her close friend for weeks or months she wants to leave me. So its likely she is just carrying on her story. Like what is she going to do, completely 180 and tell her friends we are going to work out.
IC suggest not to put too much weight into her words. Great, just when i thought i can add it to the fuel for detaching.
Shes in my head today in a big way.
On other news im making more friends in the office, they are all females though cause i am the only guy. Smoking hot chick comes by a draws a smiley face at my desk every day now. Its become her thing, she has a dedicated piece of paper stuck to my table where she adds a smiley face everyday. I've been careful to not be too friendly though. Just polite and pleasant. Still its nice but also makes me a little sad that its not my W.
On other news im making more friends in the office, they are all females though cause i am the only guy. Smoking hot chick comes by a draws a smiley face at my desk every day now. Its become her thing, she has a dedicated piece of paper stuck to my table where she adds a smiley face everyday. I've been careful to not be too friendly though. Just polite and pleasant. Still its nice but also makes me a little sad that its not my W.
Well, day-um Natus! I think I'll be sticking a smiley face paper to my desk.
But, there has been a woman stopping by my desk on a daily basis. She says "hi" to me and empties my trash. I'm thinking she must like me, otherwise why would she empty my trash? She's a tad homely and about 20 years older than me, but I'm not yet divorced so I'll have to wait I guess.
Doodler! Stop it!
Natus, isn't it cr@ppy that somehow the spouses can't see the good in us that others see so easily? Then again, which side of ourselves do we usually show our spouses?
Yes, do be wary of smiley face girl. This is how x's A started with his colleague. Not from smiley faces (I dunno but I don't think so), but from a willing and sympathetic ear (or ears).
And Natus, what have you been wearing or not wearing in your office?
Dude, you need to try harder to mask your attractiveness!
Yes, do be wary of smiley face girl. This is how x's A started with his colleague. Not from smiley faces (I dunno but I don't think so), but from a willing and sympathetic ear (or ears).
Natus,
Don't listen to JksD. I live my life vicariously through you and I think I'm in love with smiley face girl. Can we have a little flirtatious chit-chat with smiley face girl? Please?
Doodler! Stop it!
And Natus, what have you been wearing or not wearing in your office?
Dude, you need to try harder to mask your attractiveness!
I have been leaving the top button of my shirt open past couple of days, i wonder if that could be it.
[quote=doodler
Natus,
Don't listen to JksD. I live my life vicariously through you and I think I'm in love with smiley face girl. Can we have a little flirtatious chit-chat with smiley face girl? Please? [/quote]
Haha i dare not open my mouth save for a few pleasantries. I've been married 11 years, im pretty sure i dont got game.
Had an R talk last night.
It went well, too well that im back to being confused again.
She re-iterated that she is doing all she can to make sure OM is not in the picture at all but right now she has to because of work. She will move office in less than 20 days.
Im just wondering why all the effort if shes telling other people she wants to end the M.
The R talk was pretty much us validating each other, she didnt speak up when we had problems, i didnt notice etc. She realises now how her behaviour of just shutting down and not saying anything, expecting me to minread contributed to the demise of our M.
I told her i havent shut the door in us (im not sure if that is right DB) and she seemed to be more than okay with that.
We ended the talk quite light and made plans for the next day being the start of ramadhan and all that. I have never been religious before but i find myself looking to god nowadays.
This will be the first time since childhood i am going to attempt to fast. Interestingly enough the W announced she will fast too. Took me completely by surprised. So i guess we are fasting together for Ramadhan.
The positives:
Good validatoon in the R talk.
W taking steps to cut off OM.
W aware that door is kept ajar.
W starting to show the same religious convictions as you.
But please remember Sandi's rule about believing none of what they say and half of what they do.
Take note of the positives then file them away. Be cautiously optimistic.
You are confused because W is confused. 2 confused persons in a R is not good. 1 confused person in a R trying to mindread another confused person is an exercise in futility. Don't go there.
Some questions:
Who initiated the R talk?
Are you taking steps to show W that while you are keeping the door ajar, you are also becoming a better man and moving ahead with your life?
Did you keep the first few buttons of your shirt unbuttoned?
Well so much for my cautious optimism.
I did some high level snooping. Caught a conversation between her and OM. I reacted and called her out on it.
She's still trying to cover up her conversations, making it about work but i knew the truth and called her out on it. I wonder if shes intentionally doing it or is it the wayward brain re-writing everything to make them think they are innocent or not guilty.
In the process of getting her to come clean she admitted to looking him up on IG frequently.
Suffice to say after our R talk just two nights ago where she re-affirmed their NC i now feel like i've been betrayed again.
She just offered to stop being friends with him and will delete her IG app.
I am so numb and tired of playing nice. Can i let the darkness take over now?
(((Natus)))
I guess you'll have to go back to hardcore dbing.
What is your boundary wrt to NC with OM? If your W has made the offer to have NC, I won't call your actions snooping. I will call it trust but verify.
Is your W looking for a new job?
Natus,
I'm sorry; I know that's a huge let-down.
(((Natus)))
I guess you'll have to go back to hardcore dbing.
What is your boundary wrt to NC with OM? If your W has made the offer to have NC, I won't call your actions snooping. I will call it trust but verify.
Is your W looking for a new job?
I asked that they not even be friends. She maintains that she hadn't been speaking to him but just spilled that one time i decided to snoop. I'm having a hard time reconciling that.
Shes says shes not choosing anyone, that shes choosing herself but so far her actions make me feel otherwise. Maintaining "friendship" with OM, checking his Instagram daily behind my back. I told her actions speaks louder than words.
Im back to square one with trust now, she says im always looking for faults. Im hoping there are none to show.
She says she feels suffocating by my 'verfication'. I admit its pretty extensive. I have decided to to stop monitoring. More for me than her, its not helping me. Side effect she might feel less suffocated.
she says she will work on not being even friends with him. On account they still have to see each other in the office for next 3 weeks.
Funny thing i asked her about kissing me before going off to work, she said she felt obliged too. I told her i wont oblige her anymore.
Come morning shes waiting at the door to give me a kiss before work. I suppose that's something.
Im back to square one with trust now, she says im always looking for faults. Im hoping there are none to show.
She says she feels suffocating by my 'verfication'. I admit its pretty extensive. I have decided to to stop monitoring. More for me than her, its not helping me. Side effect she might feel less suffocated.
That is WW b.s. She's trying to put the spotlight on you instead of herself.
she says she will work on not being even friends with him
Not good enough. She either is or isn't friends with OM. There is no "trying not to be friends". Was there a boundary in place about her contacting him, or being his friend? If so, what are the consequences for not honoring your boundaries?
Did you set up a transparency plan?
Don't go the extreme opposite direction and stick you head in the sand.
Im back to square one with trust now, she says im always looking for faults. Im hoping there are none to show.
She says she feels suffocating by my 'verfication'. I admit its pretty extensive. I have decided to to stop monitoring. More for me than her, its not helping me. Side effect she might feel less suffocated.
That is WW b.s. She's trying to put the spotlight on you instead of herself.
I agree that she did try to put the spotlight on me. I did turn it back to her. We made a "deal' of sorts, that i would give her some breathing space in return she has to write a letter to OM to end any friendship completely.
she says she will work on not being even friends with him
Not good enough. She either is or isn't friends with OM. There is no "trying not to be friends". Was there a boundary in place about her contacting him, or being his friend? If so, what are the consequences for not honoring your boundaries?
Im ashamed to admit this but i was walking out the door with a baseball bat in hand to make sure the OM got the message. She chased me to the door and tried to explain that she was just maintaining civility in the office. I called bull**** and told her sharing things that we discussed as h and W to him is not maintaining office civility.
Did you set up a transparency plan?
Don't go the extreme opposite direction and stick you head in the sand.
I asked for no friendship, no sharing of anything information or otherwise. She still needs to write the letter to OM which i will read before handing it to him. She's deleted her social media from her phone, as well as unlocked her phone. No passwords.
She doesnt get in office early and will text / send me pic who is in office if she needs to stay back but has been leaving office on the dot.
Definately agree i shouldnt stick my head in the sand. But how do i verify without becoming a stalker/
Part of my problem is the snooping / verification ends up getting me worked up.
Its making it very difficult for me to be a lighthouse.
Interestingly enough yes, she has gone NC with OM but in her head its only temporary. I know that for sure cause i hear her discuss it on the phone with a GF.
He's her boss? Expose the A to the company. That'll be the end of that....and his job.
That whole "not choosing anyone" implying they want to be alone to figure things out is complete and utter bullsh*t. That's a textbook lie that cheating spouses tell their betrayed spouse. Translated it means "I want to pursue something with someone else but I'd like you to stick around as my plan B in case that doesn't work out." You seem like you have too much self-respect to put up with such things so I suggest you don't.
If you found nothing, maybe the snooping would not affect you as much. It is affecting you because there is still contact. Snooping can be useful to know what you are up against, but you need to be in control of it.
If every time she gets a text message and you NEED to know who it was and what was said,then it is a problem, half of which is in your head. If you are checking to verify the truth, that can be helpful.
Part of being the lighthouse is not worrying about how WAW views the lighthouse. A lighthouse just is and does not change in function of an observer.
2 weeks to go till she moves job.
Shes handed the letter to OM. She says things like shes sorry, and she knows its hard for me. Honestly though i dont think i have seen true remorse from her. Only remorse for getting caught.
Will need to see how thing play out in a couple of weeks.
Natus,
Regardless, it sounds like progress. I hope things continue getting better.
I don't think you really grasp how the addition to the OM works. She can't feel remorse while she's still engaging at some level. She works with him, therefore, it's like she gets a hit every day. That is the purpose of having absolutely NC, no pictures, no social media........no seeing him across the parking lot...........no nothing.
For me, I was so low on being willing, that I had to reach the place of being willing just to get to the willingness. Can't get further down than that.
Remorse comes at different lengths of time for people. I think it depends upon a lot of factors involved. For me, I had to get completely through the withdrawals, stop thinking of what may have been, and essentially stop thinking about the OM. Then, I had to deal with the stuff I felt before OM ever came into the picture..........like all the resentment and disrespect. I had to let go of all of that, in order for the remorse to hit. You see, as long as I could blame my H and hold on to my anger........I wouldn't take responsibility for the hurt I had caused. Therefore, remorse didn't happen.
I won't tell you how long it took me, b/c it doesn't mean it will take your W that long. A woman can regret her actions, when she can obviously see part of the damaged results. However, a bad attitude can quickly rush in to rescue her from those fleeting moments of regret. I keep preaching to LBH'S how it is a process for the WW. Getting over her feelings for the OM, is just the first step. Many steps and much work from her is required.
When I was able to let go of the years of disappointment, unmet expectations, resentment, bitterness, fault finding, blaming, and most of all........the disrespect, then it came. My false pride was broken. The anger had lost. My heart was broken for what I had done to my H, our M, and my children. At last, I was able to go to my H with humility and ask for his for his forgiveness. That night, was the first night I went to sleep without all that bad stuff in my heart. Until I reached that point, I had no interest, no feelings, nothing for my MR. It was a long, slow process, but it can happen. She can have feelings for you again.
Thanks Sandhi. The thought is both scary and enlightening. While there is hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel, the tunnel itself is flooded and full of pitfalls.
I hope i have the strength to see it through. May i ask what your H did at that point? How did he have the patience and strength to endure the wait?
I hope i have the strength to see it through. May i ask what your H did at that point? How did he have the patience and strength to endure the wait?
Well, my H has the patient of Job. I am the one who has none.
.
I think his strength came through prayer.
Frankly, I was so self absorbed, until I don't remember seeing very much outwardly. When the sh't hit the fan, I saw his anger in a way I had never seen it. He is the nice-guy, even temperament, easy-going man. If you have ever read no more mr. nice guy, then you'll see a picture of my H. I definitely brought out his worst!
What vividly stands out in my mind, is the morning after he discovered OM. As usual, I was the one talking, and thought I was the one with the control. Just like every other WW, I told him that if we separated I hoped we would still be friends. He looked right into my eyes and sadly shook his head, and then I heard the words I will never forget. "If you leave, there will be no coming back home, and rest assured we will not be on the buddy-buddy system". He did not raise his voice. He did not speak in anger or show any other emotion. But he spoke with confidence and determination in his voice. I knew he meant every word. And, oh boy.......did it hit me. I had known him since I was 15. We got M when I was only 18. I could not imagine never seeing him again. I had imagined riding off into the sunset with OM, and coming home to visit my family........but never did it enter my arrogant mind that he would not want to keep a friendly relationship with me. He loved me!
You see, the WW is very egotistical. And, I actually thought that if I left, he would welcome me back with open arms......as his friend. I actually thought he would feel grateful just to get me as a friend! Can you believe the audacity in me?
It took me a while to figure it out. You see, it was not my H who showed up at the doors of the DB board. It was me! Which in itself, is highly unusual for a WW. I was very defensive to a lot of things people would say to me about what I needed to do in the MR. I would rattle off all the things wrong about my H and how he was doing nothing to change, etc. Their answer to me was, "But you are the one here, not your husband"! Oh, I would get angry and very frustrated. I was gripping about him and getting hit in the face by other LBS's. I felt as if he was getting off scott-free and all the work was on me........and I was the bad guy. I felt as if nobody understood me! (ha)
That is the way it is. We can't talk to the person who isn't here. My H did not have the DB tools that you get here. He is a very private man and did not talk about it to others. He is a devoted Christian and I believe his strength came from God. As far as him making big changes, the way we teach DBers, I didn't see anything like that. His health took a big plunge and has steadily gone downhill ever since.
If I had not been so depressed and could have shown some energy and interest in putting forth effort........I think he would have been thrilled and responded likewise. I had always been the one who managed the relationship. And he told me He wanted to see me put a 110% effort back into the MR (which made me really mad). I felt it had always been
me putting a 110% into the MR, while he did nothing. Anyway, I couldn't do it right then, and he didn't understand the process I had to go through. I can't imagine how discouraged and hurt he must have been. He probably felt like giving up several times. Nobody comes out of a WW crises unscathed.
Many LBH'S have asked me what did my H do to get me back into the MR. Ahhhh.......but it was not my H who had the DB toolbox.
Natus
Breathe.
Look after you and detach.
You have your sandi box. Build your fort of stone.
Great guidance
V
Thanks again Sandhi and Vanilla.
I feel i am in a weird position that my W is choosing to stay but not choosing me. If that makes sense.
I think i have brought it up a few time that she is trying to act wifey. Like we spend most of our non-working time together, family dinners the whole works. We have been having dinner with her parents and family alot more too, like daily the past week.
Her contact with OM has dramatically decreased and she doesnt linger at office anymore. Im just waiting for her last day at work.
My connundrum is i am still acting husbandy too. I havent detach in the way of actions to my W.
Im just wondering if i need to pull back, be more mysterious, GAL by myself more or just continue doing what im doing. To be honest i like being with my son as much as i can and wherever he goes she will go.
Cake and eating it, my lovely.
RD sitch may be helpful.
As long as WW has contact OM the draw will be there.
You can't be 'husbandy' because all WW is doing is faux wifey. When WW shows intent to choose you as her H you are her H.
I think you have the gift of time. Stay in the MBR when she changes job agree a move back in date, if she doesn't it's ok and you know where you are. Agree date nights and times you will be together, lead on this.
The key is detachment, fine if she does and fine if she doesn't. That's key.
Let go of WW actions, words and thoughts driving your emotions.
That's letting go of WW driving you. Like being behind an out of control speedboat water skiing. Drive your own speedboat.
Detachment is like two tug of war combatants on each end of a rope over a snake pit trying to pull the other in. If one of them lets go then neither falls in the pit.
So let go, detach.
That's different from unattaching. You are attaching to you.
Move forward with your goals (not move on), let WW work her stuff, give her space, the door is open. If OM is in the background or a new OM then deal breaker? It is a boundary?
Observe.
I write about third position observer mode, an NLP strategy, my go to for detaching. If you wish to know more I can give you a link.
Your WW has to respect you, that's not being secretive (which seems passive aggressive and looks like game playing to me). Strong boundaries are direct and enforced, in the meanwhile get on with your life.
Great if she gets her stuff together and ok if she doesn't.
You are on hold until she changes job, ensure your boundaries are absolutely clear to her.
So what exactly are your boundaries?
V
Driveby hug.
Nothing to add since you're already receiving great advice from Sandi And V.
Ready for a plot twist.
She wants to separate after moving job.
Ready for a plot twist.
She wants to separate after moving job.
Natus
Big big hug
That's unexpected
Let it unfold in time and look after you
V
(((Natus)))
Take care of yourself. You may have to be prepared for the fact that her quitting her job is a smokescreen.
Was filled with so much dark and anger past two days then saw Vanilla's Post about anger on another thread.
Brought it all to the gym yesterday. First time tried lifting while on a fast, no food or water from 4am so a good 12 hours fast before lifting. Must have been the anger but i was blowing through the lifts. A little thirsty but felt strong, just made sure to pace myself. I was surprised that afterwards no side effects of lifting fasted, i felt good and found the next 2 hours waiting to break the fast easy.
Looking forward to lift again and add more activities.
Keep on keeping on Natus!
I am proud of you, brother. May Allah swt rewards a thousand fold for your endurance and strength during this Ramadan.
So im not sure what to make of this.
Yesterday W came home from work, we were chatting just mundane stuff when she suddenly thanked me for letting her go to dinner the previous night with her girlfriends that a lawyer. The lawyer friend is also a friend of mine and also one of my kickboxing students. She herself had recently gone through a divorce due to her H's multiple As, she knows about our sich and hopes we can get back together.
So after thanking me she gets teary eyed and starts saying she had no idea how much her going to work was hurting me,she thought it was just another day going to work. Then through tears she offered to go to MC with me. I felt she was genuine about it and she looked remorseful. This was completely out of the blue, we werent even having an R talk.
Surprised, I didnt even validate very well. All i could say was "eh, we dont have to rush it" i did manage to cover and say thank you that means alot.
I think she is still on the fence and conflicted because she isnt sure if she can love me again. I guess this is a tiny step forward, she understands now my apprehension when she goes to work even though only 12 more days to go before she moves.
After everything im afraid to be hopeful. Im just going to go gym, do my thing and see how things unfold.
Oh and just to give the story some spice.
My brother employed a shaman to take a look at our sich. Where i am from hexes and curses by your enemies or scorned friends / families are not unheard of.
Here is to some voodoo woodoo.
I uh....wouldn't bring in a shaman, they're haram.
Remember, don't believe a word they say and only half of what they do. She will say some of the most bizarre/extreme things and the next minute/day will swing in the other direction. Like Sandhi said, she is in withdrawal and likely acting out because of it. Step back and let her flail.
True about the shaman bit SadSare. It was my brother who sought him out. I didnt even meet him although my brother is relaying the things he sees.
Im too numb by now to hope anyway. I guess i will just go into observing mode for awhile and try to keep my neediness in check. While I definitely want her back in the relationship i want her to choose me. Not the life, the M, the whatever comforts or safety net or codependency the M brings.
Natus,
I hope you're feeling better today. If your wife suggested MC, then it sounds like you might be making progress. I understand what you mean when you say you want her to choose you; I think that's what most of us are looking for.
I miss the smiley face girl. Can you send her my way?
I miss the smiley face girl too. Oh she just dropped into office this morning and added another smiley face. You'd like her. Shes petite but shapely, very cute, short shoulder length hair, asian. A tad youngish though, mid to late twenties.
Anyho back to my reality aka sich. Things look a little positive if not awkward. She pulled me in for a little peck on the lips this morning before work (W not smiley face girl) but i couldnt help but hunger for more. So i made it a little awkward. I really need to work on my neediness.
I think i better schedule MC asap cause i have no idea what im doing now. I've been fighting to get to this point, now that im here (the first stages to maybe piecing maybe) im like "sh*t i never actually thought what id do once im here".
I'll point out atleast im a little calmer now, even with her going to the office (7 working days to go). I dont know if its the gym or her finally understanding and acknowledging the hurt its causing. She says she wants to earn my trust back.
Im at a better place but i also feel impatient. Like can we fix it now or not kinda feeling. I need to reign that in and be prepared for months of work.
Take your time.
Please keep those changes going, it's a long road ahead.
V
Natus, be patient and work on yourself. There are some positives but you have to realise that it's still a way to go and your W will swing like the pendulum.
Surprised, I didnt even validate very well. All i could say was "eh, we dont have to rush it"
Was that your answer to her wanting to try MC?
Take your time.
Please keep those changes going, it's a long road ahead.
V
Yea, two months in and i feel the burnout. I find part of the changes that is difficult is the ones that require money to be spent. Like keeping up the house and stuff. Money is tight at the moment.
The only thing i can really do is change my attitude and how i deal with stuff.
Natus, be patient and work on yourself. There are some positives but you have to realise that it's still a way to go and your W will swing like the pendulum.
That is a constant worry at the back of my mind the pendulum swinging.
I admit that sometimes i think another women right now would have no problem choosing me and thats bringing my mood down. Other women are giving me attention but i want the attention of my W. Its also making me a little bit bitter.
Journaling:
Been up all night. I hope the sleepless nights haven't come back.
I dont know if i can do it. I dont know if i want the M anymore. The constant wonder if shes going to pendulum swing or going to relapse and contact OM, or if there will be OM#2.
Th constant wonder if shes hiding things from me. If shes deleting text messages or emails or whatever. I've stopped all forms of snooping. I dont even verify anymore. I cant be arsed.
The constant holding me at arms length. Intimacy has so far been a peck on the lips before work, if im lucky before bed. No feet brushing, no holding hand, no hugs, nothing to indicate if shes actually choosing me. Perhaps this is the hardest of it all.
I dont know if i can forgive or forget all those things. I am actually dreading MC now that she wants it. Because in my heart i dont know if i want it.
Its funny, she has asked for MC, a complete 180 from her. Previously her attitude to it was F that. I however am starting to wonder if i should see whats out there.
I want to GAl tonight, hell i wouldnt mind asking if the office ladies want to go out for dinner and maybe invite smiley face girl along. No intentions or expectations, just would be nice for a change. Probably a big no no.
Alternatively my guy friends are
a) boardgame group ~dont know if i am up to that right now
b) business partner ~ feels to work-ish
C) Tattoo friend and gangster ~ probably wants to drink but i am fasting for ramadhan.
Okay, Natus.
Just a thought. It will seem easier to start a new R with another woman. But down the road, there will be another set of problems. You may just be exchanging one set of problems with another set of problems. Like what your W is doing now.
You do realise that LBS can also feel ILYBIMNILWY? Love is a commitment; it is not just a feeling but an action.
Also, does your W know about the attention that you've been getting from other women? I wonder if there is any way to just let it slip into your conversations in a non-manipulative way? ;P
As for GAL, I vote for the either the boardgames or the work partner. No ladies, no no ladies! Give them a break, will ya?
Sheesh, stop tempting them!
Natus, I wasn't being sarcastic, I was sincerely asking how you responded when she said something about MC.
I want to GAl tonight, hell i wouldnt mind asking if the office ladies want to go out for dinner and maybe invite smiley face girl along. No intentions or expectations, just would be nice for a change. Probably a big no no.
Natus,
You're d@mn straight it's a no-no; smiley face girl is mine. You can have tattooed guy.
You're d@mn straight it's a no-no; smiley face girl is mine. You can have tattooed guy.
I can always count on you for a giggle!
Natus, I wasn't being sarcastic, I was sincerely asking how you responded when she said something about MC.
Hi Sandhi, i actually didnt see your post. I blame lack of sleep and fasting meant no coffee.
It probably wasnt as bad as i made it sound. She leaned in and said if i wanted to we could go MC together, by this point we were both little teary eyed i held her hand and said ok, we dont have to rush it.
I know i know sound bad doesn't it. Just 48 hours ago she wanted to separate find her own place and then boom 180, we werent even having an R talk. it came out of the blue. My guess is she was thinking about it all day during work.
I did talk to her that night and apologised if i seemed flippant, i told her i was surprised and was tongue tied for a moment. She seemed understanding.
Anyhow fast forward to tonight we had an argument. She still seems quick to anger and twist everything i say and make it sound like im attacking her.
I had enough and left the house to vent then went played some pool at the local pool house. Coincidentally its the place i met her 12 years ago.
You're d@mn straight it's a no-no; smiley face girl is mine. You can have tattooed guy.
I saw her first!
Natus, it has been awhile since I've been on your sitch, so I had to go back and read quite a few pages, but I will say doodler's fascination of your smiley face girl made for easy reading.
Anyway, I'm glad to hear about the pending NC with OM, and your W's wavering between separation and then MC, it shows that she doesn't know what she wants which means she hasn't confirmed she wants to separate. Anyway, I believe if you give her space (she's probably gonna have a tough time when NC goes into effect) while she settles in to her new reality, it will go a long way. It's going to be tough, but be the lighthouse, don't ask how/what she's feeling, just be a confident/steady person that she can use to lean on when/if she needs to talk. Her worlds gonna be rocking, if your rocking too, it will be too much for her.
I might suggest that you read my previous thread, it may help to see the feelings/questions that I struggled with when starting to piece. I still struggle with many of the questions, but I will say every day seems to be getting better (especially the last few mornings :), so as you struggle with if this is really what you want, I would urge you to at least wait awhile until you get to some of the good/fun times before deciding.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2681388&page=1I would also suggest LIM's thread, as he is also piecing. I know your not there yet, but if your wife commits to working on R, things can start happening pretty fast. One of the common questions/concerns is "did I let her back to soon?", you may want to consider what you would need from her before you agree to work on R. It is pretty scary to be piecing and wonder if the WS really understood the effects of their actions and if they really, truly want to commit to the MR, or if they are just doing it because it's the right thing to do.
Hi Coconut. Thanks for the advise.
Funny you should mention not asking how/what she's feeling because this past week i have just sorta went numb. I dont care its her last week in office with OM, i dont even care if they talked in the office.
I feel like i have given up on the R. I really dont know what she can do to be honest to ease our way back into the R. Im actually dreading MC.
I find myself wanting to see whats out there, GAL and have fun. Was looking at motorcycles this morning, oogling the Harley Davidson Street 750 wondering if i can afford it. Thinking ill go Korea alone next month for a short vacay or maybe back to Phuket, i last went there w W and S5 right after BD. Shittiest holiday i ever had. I kinda want to go back without her.
Well baby steps i suppose. Going to go movies tomorrow night with friends. I usually go movies with W so this will be a change.
I use to wake up in the mornings thinking that I would end contact with the OM and work on my MR. By noon, I would have changed my mind again. It was crazy.
Couple days since my last post.
Nothing much to report really, 1 more day shes in office before she moves job. Actually end of the week but we are taking son to get eyes checked tomorrow then there is a public holiday on thursday. So technically 1.5 more days she will be in office.
Apart from that i am alittle dissapointed i didnt even get a peep for fathers day.
Her birthdays coming up 29June and her last working day 25Jun and her new job date 27Jun. I understand gifts are not encouraged here but i kinda want to get her something. After all shes still here and asked for MC so i should show some positiveness right?
Maybe you could help your S get something for her and then tag along?
I thought she was moving out of the home.
Hey Natus, the only way to detach is to literally not care about what she does and where she goes. If she really cared, she'd actually have wished you happy fathers day.
As for the space that you're in... well the way i see it, you have obvious choices regarding your MR. You can throw your all into it and fight for it. But ask yourself, what are you fighting for?
If you're fighting for a good woman that you know will bring you happiness, then you fight.
If you give up on it, then know that what happens to us are all in God's plans, we just don't really understand it until we take a real step back and look at whats happening, who we've become and where we're going.
Figure out what you want in life. They say that just the idea of putting your foot out of the door, means that you're already out of the door.
I thought she was moving out of the home.
So did i then 48hours later she asked for MC.
Its her last day on the job tomorrow for half a day. I suspect shes is flopping back and forth. It doesnt seem like she will move out now.
Anyhow i decided just getting a token gift. A couple of pens (not expensive ones) to congratulate her on starting her new job.
I think i made a mistake, when she asked for MC i sort of let down my guard. Starting being over husbandly but after a week there no changes in actions or attitude.
I need to go back to DB. Start making plans for myself.
Hey Natus, the only way to detach is to literally not care about what she does and where she goes. If she really cared, she'd actually have wished you happy fathers day.
As for the space that you're in... well the way i see it, you have obvious choices regarding your MR. You can throw your all into it and fight for it. But ask yourself, what are you fighting for?
If you're fighting for a good woman that you know will bring you happiness, then you fight.
If you give up on it, then know that what happens to us are all in God's plans, we just don't really understand it until we take a real step back and look at whats happening, who we've become and where we're going.
Figure out what you want in life. They say that just the idea of putting your foot out of the door, means that you're already out of the door.
In the grand scheme im only 3 months in. I guess i am impatient. Just going to step back and do my thing for a whilst keeping the door open. Been eyeing a motorcycle for awhile.
On side note, arrived into office this morning after being away for a day to a little note "#whereareyounow" left on my table along with a few more smiley faces.
That brightened an otherwise quite shitty morning. Shut down by W, forgot my work pass resulting in having to drive back home (thankfully 10 mins away) and then slamming car door on my thumb.
Fubar. Im going through a rollercoaster of emotions right now.
Mums the word right? Just duct tape and chug on.
Chug along Natus, you can do it.
Just use the smiley faces as boost for your pma. And nothing more. Doodler has staked his claim on smiley face girl.
And go for the motorcycle. I used to want one so I am going to live vicariously through you.
Natus, keep strong, live a day at a time!
On side note, arrived into office this morning after being away for a day to a little note "#whereareyounow" left on my table along with a few more smiley faces.
Natus,
I'm jealous! I haven't gotten any notes or smiley faces from smiley face girl. It's as if she doesn't even know I exist.
Doodler, i think she's met your WW perhaps?
Focusing on me, hope i can make it last this time.
Went out last night for coffee. Spontaneously as was waiting for adopted son to finish training. Chatted with some ladies and bumped into my high school maths teacher who happen to own coffee shop. Still feels weird, like being out alone somehow is cheating. I've been a husband for so long this is alien to me.
Visited Harley dealership this morning and gave them my details to see if can qualify for hire purchase loan. If not going to have shop around for used one.
lifting more at the gym too.
Might i also qualify that getting a motorcycle now may piss off the W. I have yet to schedule getting my new tattoo.
Its her last day at work today. Monday she starts her new job. I dont have hope anymore, new job, no contact with OM or not. I just feel angry.
I pull back and she pursues. I dont get it.
Two days ago she told me again she wants to leave and she doesnt want any physical contact with me. This is a few days after asking for MC and a few days before that saying she wants to leave.
So yesterday and today i dropped the rope. Did me a solid, went out and socialised, visited motorcycle dealership. Hanged out and have fun with S5. She was unaware of all of this by the way. My mindset was to get fully prepared for eventual separation and the big D.
Then she acts all nice and tonight she kissed me.
Someone please explain this to me.
I cant drop my guard, last time i did she went cold turkey and wanted to move out again.
I pull back and she pursues....
Then she acts all nice and tonight she kissed me.
Someone please explain this to me.
I cant drop my guard, last time i did she went cold turkey and wanted to move out again.
I don't have any more insight than you do... Finding the pursuit/distancing dance just as confusing as you even though it's an expected part of the script.
I suspect a big part of it is just that the WW is generally even more messed up emotionally than we are. And while we here slowly gain the benefit of introspection, increased detachment and great advice, the WW just keeps falling back to their same short-sighted patterns. No introspection or personal growth needed since everything wrong in their life is someone else's fault.