So there is a possible OM2, who is pursuing. It is BFFs brother.
Yesterday he sends a whatsapp pick of a half-peeled banana. She replies with what must she do with it. He replies "suck it". This is literally next to me. But i acted AS-IF it meant nothing.
I called one of her friends and she said that my WW was being naive, but the OM2 is very very interested. My WW justifies her actions (still) by saying that she's always been a flirtatious person. I can see that she still loves the attention. Darknes, would say, focus on me. I am going to do that.
BUT now i need to take action. I am definitely not going to confront her. But i need to tell her that what she's doing is wholly inappropriate. Fight for her without actually fighting.
This is what i'm thinking, and i'm rather going to tell her to her face this evening, as i think it's the best medium to gauge what she is saying, besides, an email which can be construed in so many wicked ways.
Based on the communication which i saw yesterday, with you and OM2, I find it inappropriate for another man to send my W a pic of a banana and to ask her to suck it. I cannot tell you what to do, but i can tell you what I think is wrong.
WHAT DO YOU THINK? see previous thread with my contact about willingness, that was needed to set this one up.
Based on the communication which i saw yesterday, with you and OM2, I find it inappropriate for another man to send my W a pic of a banana and to ask her to suck it. I cannot tell you what to do, but i can tell you what I think is wrong.
Personally i would have raised it there and then and in person. I would have been firm but not confrontational. Then i would probably ask her to reply to him that
"my husband, finds you messaging my wife highly innappropriate" Afterall didnt she say she wants to work in the M?
i dont know if im heavy handed but if something is morally and apprehensively wrong im not going to ignore it, ill make a stand.
Now how to make that stand is a different beast all together, balancing the fine act between firm or controlling, tactfully or confrontational.
Yep, I think i've always made a stand, either I would be too heavy handed, or i would stand, get told off and sit.
i need to get this one right. I need to get it perfect. I like your one though, probably should have said that, but i was too deep in AS-IF mode.
I pick my battles, most things i let slide and just validate but serious stuff i'll speak up trying to be as tactful and firm as i can without coming off controlling. Im still learning that part though but i feel im getting better.
Got the new car, so happy, and so sad at the same time. Strange feeling.
I don't know how i'm going to deal with her going out tomorrow and saturday with OM2. I recall my other WW friend saying, that if she is in love, then she will not wander. I still dont see it.
Her touch is more intense though. She rubs the stubble on my chin and face, and runs her hands through my hair. I do nothing back. But for how long can I just say nothing and do nothing?
My mind is running away with me, but better here than an email to her. Worst part, is that I literally have had no work for 2 months. Have nothing else to focus on.
I'm probably not the best one to dish out advise here. But that is completely inappropriate. She is cake eating to the max. And as for this snake sending those suggestive images- shame on him! I think you would be well within your rights to say something. It's not going to be portrayed as persuing in my eyes, as it is something morally wrong.
My WW friend says that "she is always going to be looking for someone she can be in love with." This shyt is sad. But it could be me.
Thx Cherry, I need to get just the right lines for her this evening to think about. I don't want to lose her, but need to deal with that inevitability.
So, it may seem feeble, and I know what dream and darknes are going to say, but my question is... is this a boundary - "If my WW goes out on thursday and saturday with OM2, then I will file for D."
It will not be an ultimatum given to her, it is put in place to protect myself from any actions that may harm me, STDs, further emotional harm. I fully comprehend that a D will not make me better. But I cannot condone and accept this type of behaviour. That being said, she still has the ability to make the right choice, in my eyes.
I'm not going to do it, just asking if it is a valid boundary.
DDJ,
The doodler has to chime in; it is definitely a boundary.
But, I'm not sure it's the boundary you want. One thing to think about is you said "if she goes out with OM2 on Thursday and Saturday." What happens if she goes out with OM2 on just one of those days?
I don't think spouses should date while they're married. Is she going on a date with OM2? My inclination is to say something like, "If you go out with other guys, then you'll find you stuff out by the street." I like that, but it may not be DB. I guess the question is; what would Sandi do?
Sandi would throw her out!
ooh, could i say " I will not stand for this behaviour, I want you out." And then throw her things in the car. and lock the gate behind me. It will drive her straight to his arms, but that's her choice?
DDJ,
What if you asked your wife out, in advance, on Thursday and Saturday? Date your wife (displace the OM). It can be simple and inexpensive.
Nope, thats controlling dood, she needs to decide her own life. Me asking her out would be seen right through for what it is. I cannot be melty.
I have replied to two emails to the wife whole day. Sent a TM asking for funds into my acc - mmmhhh, she controls the money...
Anyhows, i cannot force her issue, only my own.
ok, how does this sound - "i refuse to live in an open relationship - if you want to continue to stay here then you need to sleep in the next room or leave!"
I like this one.
I don't see how any of those scenarios are helpful to your end goal of saving your marriage. Do you still want to work things out with your wife?
As far as I can tell, you two are separated, but living together. You're clearly not at the reconciliation phase of working things out. You cannot control where she goes, what she does, who she talks to... etc. Just like she can't control where you go, what you do, or who you talk to. You're both free to do whatever you want at this point. Of course your actions have consequences, but that's also up to both of you to decide.
The meaning behind "focus on yourself" is that you worry about what you're doing and not what she is or isn't doing. Yet, many of your posts are all about her! You're focused on her and you react based on what (you think) she's doing/thinking. Instead of focusing on yourself and working towards your goals.
I agree the text exchange between her and OM2 is highly inappropriate. However, that's her choice to make. I'm not at all surprised as to what the message said since she's been going out with this guy for the past few weeks and she doesn't get home until early morning. It's clear that he wants a piece of her and by her actions, she may be willing to give it to him. He certainly thinks it's worth a try.
You can't stop her from doing whatever she wants to do. However, you can choose to no longer work on your marriage. Only you can decide if you're at that point. Until then, focus on your goals. Make yourself a person only a fool would leave... right?
I asked her to think about what she would be willing to do to get things where they need to be so that we can move forward, together.
I forgot to respond to this.
What things do YOU need from her to move forward? A remorseful spouse is willing to do anything a betrayed spouse needs to work things out.
While i agree that if she went ahead w OM i would probably file D but i like doodlers suggestion.
Convey your concerns about other OM and her behavior and that it would legitimately get in the way of you two ever reconciling. She can either choose you or OM without you having to give ultimatum or threats of D.
Dream, i've always toyed with the idea of her leaving. I've always had one foot in and one out - but my heart fully in it. I know that things have to get worse before they get better, but I refuse to just sit around and watch it get worse whilst i'm focusing on myself. IT's going to get worse regardless.
Right now, all of these things that i'm doing are preparing for the worst case. I do not have 3 or 4 months to GAL and hope that she sees, i wont care if she sees by then. I know what I want in a W, and within the next month or so, this WW will not encompass any of those things.
So as much as I need to GAL, i need to protect myself financially and emotionally for the inevitable.
As for what she is willing to change, right now, nothing. The same whatsapp friend that sent her porn, that she deleted a month ago, is back on chat with her.
I will become the person only a fool would leave, but I refuse to be the fool until that day.
She was upset about something I said when i put the car on FB, and blurted out "I don't know why i'm wasting my time with you." I never reacted. Some people need to get their wishes answered.
I told her that I refuse to be in an open marriage where one of us can simply say i'm going out, with strange men and then come back at 3am. I said that I will not share a bed with someone that does not want to share it with me. And that's me being honest as you know, I refuse to accept a cheating wife back. So let's see what happens at 3am GMT+2 since it just popped up that OM2 BF has passed his doctorate and she's going out tonight. I brought up the bed thing after she brought it up, as I was saving it for tomorrow when she was getting done.
I also said that the TMs between OM are inappropriate and got the usual, "i'm just flirting". She is not remorseful and probably might never be. She's even stopped cleaning, fog for OM2 is blocking the lighthouse.
I know that I gave her an ultimatum about the bed. The next ultimatum is going to be D. I believe that I am no longer working on my marriage.
Now i can focus on me!
Ok, so WW is not going out tonight. Not sure its a victory though, as she's done her hair for what i think is for her to go out tomorrow.
I cannot stop her from going out. But I will protect myself. I can't keep her physically out of the bed, but i can lock the door and keep her out of the room. My ultimatum about the MB will carry over until tomorrow then. Once used up, the ultimatum for D will take effect.
@dream, i never really thought that we're separated, I thought that the WW wanted to be married and make things work.
The sooner that I am out of limbo, the easier it will be to move forward without my WW or as a married couple trying to make things work.
So, I have asked my WW to decide what she wants to do, and again, I will see it in her actions.
She can choose to be married and try and make things work. Showing a willingness to give up her "single" life and take "us" day by day.
She can choose to be separated and we will not try to make things work. She can come and go as she pleases and we will work towards D together.
Now, every action has an opposite reaction - but rather, I see it as consequence. If she chooses to stay married, then I will continue to focus on improving myself and being the best H that I never was for her and we will overcome this together.
If she chooses to be separated then she will need to move out of the MBR, into the second room, until she eventually moves out of the house. I will then focus on being the best H that I never was and will overcome this separation alone.
I do not need a spoken answer from her, just her actions. I do not believe that given her a choice for her life is an ultimatum. I'm simply saying that whatever choice she makes, these are going to be my choices.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Only time and actions will tell.
I can only comment on what you have told us so far and her response "im just flirting.." to me is way out of line. If she wants to be in the marriage as she says then its inappropriate to be flirting sexually with other men.
If you are still trying to work for the M i guess you cant get hung up on it either. You made your stance and now you just need to be the best YOU you can be as you said. You will know her through her actions.
Thx Natus, I can only be myself. I am fully comprehending the DB rules. It's not really to save your M, it's to save yourself.
I went to an interview today, second one set for Monday so i know that God has great plans for me, whether my WW is around or not. I never told her about the interview. She calls me as i'm leaving and I tell her I just went for an interview. She is a bit taken aback.
I send her this TM.
I have to live my life as though you are no longer in it. Only you can decide if you want to stay, or leave. But i will not wait around for you to make that decision.
She replies - I am trying , but you cannot see past my new friendships that i've created, sometimes its good to do things apart, regardless if its male or female friends. Thats where trust comes in.
I reply - New friendships are good. Bad friends are not. You have not shown me that I can trust you. Do you think that going out until 3am with strange men is building trust? If you do then you will never build trust with me. Show me action, show me trust.
She replies - You want us to go back to where we were? I sit at home and be the good wife and do everything you say? I thought we gonna leave that people in the past but clearly not gonna and it takes two people to make it work...
I reply - No i don't want to go back to us before. I want us to make things work. But we cannot work if we are not together, if the one is out and the other is at home. So let's stay together at home and try to make things work. We stick together. After we can actually be together, then we can start going out again. Right now, its getting us nowhere.
If you are willing to make us work then you will remove all distraction. You will leave your phone by the door when you get home, no chatting to anyone. I will do the same. We can check the phones before we go sleep. If your M is important to you, then you can easily do this. I can.
I still await her reply.
So here is the outcome, and I can move forward...
She replies - I really don't know what i want to be honest with you and this is probably going to bite me but in the beginning of our R I gave you time to make up your mind and the freedom. Yes, things have changed alot. I have changed.
(I only decided 10 months in that I was going to make her my GF, I never saw anyone else in that time. Was always looking out of the corner of my eye though).
And I need time to myself and for myself to find out what i really want cos right now i don't know. I have to see my future and currently I can't cos I am being pulled into so many directions.
I reply - Then you want a separation and a divorce. You want to taste the fruits hanging from the tree. I cannot be married to someone like that. I would like you to leave and find yourself with yourself. I do not want to be a part of your life or that type of life that you are asking for. You will thank me one day, but i cannot walk your journey with you.
----------------------------------------------
So it appears that I am out of limbo. She will need to grovel to want to come back. Hopefully for her, before it is too late.
My WW said similar stuff. I don't know what I want. Im a people pleaser and getting pulled different directions. For my WW that meant she was getting pressure from OM and friends. Now she has no pressure from me and they spend a lot of time and weekends away.
I agree with what you are saying and have said to her, but it is pursuing and pushing.
I do not think that it's not pursuing, I am telling her that I am moving forward and that I will not live the lifestyle that she wants. I am distancing myself. Giving her the choice and then making my own choices.
I cannot tell her what to do or what she wants, but I cannot give up my principles. I have given up pride, humility but not my principles.
OHMYGOD. Stop talking to her about this.
Ill go back and review your messages today, but YOU pushed her out the door.
I'd rather push her out of the door than lose myself in an open M.
I send her this TM.
I have to live my life as though you are no longer in it. Only you can decide if you want to stay, or leave. But i will not wait around for you to make that decision.
Im not sure what you are trying to gain by starting this discussion. If you make her decide today, she isnt going to choose you. So, fine, if you want to have this conversation, do it. But she isnt going to pick you. As for the content, show her with ACTIONS not WORDS. Having the interview was great. Why not just tell her that you are trying to do something you want, something that you think will be good for you. Why turn it into this grand "I dont need you" speech?
She replies - I am trying , but you cannot see past my new friendships that i've created, sometimes its good to do things apart, regardless if its male or female friends. Thats where trust comes in.
I reply - New friendships are good. Bad friends are not. You have not shown me that I can trust you. Do you think that going out until 3am with strange men is building trust? If you do then you will never build trust with me. Show me action, show me trust.
Im not going to say that this friend(s) is good. But it isnt your job to call them "bad". How about you validate that you like that she goes out. That you think it's important for you each to have a life. Focus on words like "balance" and "appropriate". Can you instead focus on your feelings. Instead of "you show me I cant trust you", say "I feel like it is difficult to trust you." Theres no arguing with that. Your statements are all about HER ACTIONS, not YOUR FEELINGS.
She replies - You want us to go back to where we were? I sit at home and be the good wife and do everything you say? I thought we gonna leave that people in the past but clearly not gonna and it takes two people to make it work...
I reply - No i don't want to go back to us before. I want us to make things work. But we cannot work if we are not together, if the one is out and the other is at home. So let's stay together at home and try to make things work. We stick together. After we can actually be together, then we can start going out again. Right now, its getting us nowhere.
If you are willing to make us work then you will remove all distraction. You will leave your phone by the door when you get home, no chatting to anyone. I will do the same. We can check the phones before we go sleep. If your M is important to you, then you can easily do this. I can.
So the only way you can trust her is if she comes home and shuts the world out every single night? Come on. You have to see this as ridiculous, right?
She replies - I really don't know what i want to be honest with you and this is probably going to bite me but in the beginning of our R I gave you time to make up your mind and the freedom. Yes, things have changed alot. I have changed.
(I only decided 10 months in that I was going to make her my GF, I never saw anyone else in that time. Was always looking out of the corner of my eye though).
And I need time to myself and for myself to find out what i really want cos right now i don't know. I have to see my future and currently I can't cos I am being pulled into so many directions.
I reply - Then you want a separation and a divorce. You want to taste the fruits hanging from the tree. I cannot be married to someone like that. I would like you to leave and find yourself with yourself. I do not want to be a part of your life or that type of life that you are asking for. You will thank me one day, but i cannot walk your journey with you.
NO. She wants time and space to figure this out. As we've said all along, she wants to not be your sole focus. I agree with you that there should be boundaries of what you will and should accept. But if you want to be married, then this is not the way to enforce those.
DDJ - I hope that you can take a step back and stop focusing on her. This entire set of texts is all about her. Nowhere did you talk about your feelings. Nowhere did you validate/empathize. You say you only want to be married if she is XYZ. She isnt like that right now. So you can either divorce her or give her the time and space to become XYZ.
You are your own worst enemy.
How do I give her space and then also trust her at the same time?
She is definitely not going to choose me, but I'd rather hear that than the lies that she wants to make it work?
OK, I get the appropriateness of her interaction feedback. But it's wholly inappropriate. How do I understate that?
It is controlling to ask her to shut out the world, but if she's willing then she should do anything...
I'm still "bipolar". Unconfident and my worst enemy.
(2x4). She doesn't want you, you are right. You don't want to be with someone that doesn't want you. And you don't want to be with someone that you have to convince, coerst, force, or control to be there.
(2x4). You believe nothing she says and half or what she does. Don't ask a question you are not comfortable getting a lie in return. You can't trust her right now.
The space is as much for her as it is for you. You need to let her be and do you. It's very hard.
Thx Ralph and darknes and dream. So you are saying that I need to put my head in the sand, give her space to decide if she wants to cheat. It is her choice.
All that I'm doing is pushing her away. I'm doubting that I have even a little emotional strength to accomplish the above. I think that I mustn't even chat to her at all, cos I just end up putting my foot in it.
I know that I need the space. I like it when I have the space. I don't like it when she has the space.
When will this emotional roller coaster that i'm putting myself on end. I must admit that I used to be on her roller-coaster. I now no longer react.
Instead I now fear her loss so badly that I end up sabotaging it all by myself... Patience is not my friend.
How do I give her space and then also trust her at the same time?
You dont. Have you read the rules? Believe none of what they say and only half of what they do.
She is definitely not going to choose me, but I'd rather hear that than the lies that she wants to make it work?
Why would you want to hear either? If you dont ask the question, you wont get an answer that hurts.
OK, I get the appropriateness of her interaction feedback. But it's wholly inappropriate. How do I understate that?
Its inappropriate. Clearly. But theres not much you can do. If you see her texting other men, you can leave the room. If she goes out until 3, you lock the house up and go to bed. Protect yourself. Put the boundary around you. Not around her.
It is controlling to ask her to shut out the world, but if she's willing then she should do anything...
I think you're stretching the definition of anything.
Edit - quote for wrong use of bracket ] }
OK, so my rational or irrational fear of losing her, depending on who you ask, is causing me to lose her.
She does not want to be with someone so all over the show. Again, I don't want to be with me either. I will only bring across inappropriateness and try. Just try.
Patience is not my friend.
Here's your problem.
This didnt happen in a day. It wont be fixed in a day.
You need consistency and patience if you want to have a chance. Letting your emotions run your actions all over the map is not going to get you very far.
yes, thats my problem, i;m trying to fix rome in one day.
She clearly is unsure as to whether she wants to be married. She will be attracted to an attractive man. i am not being very attractive right now. I had the opportunity as dream stated to make myself look better about the interview, but instead i attacked her.
My multiple personalities are driving her away - those are her words. Not that I can trust them, but i need to heed any warnings that I can. I promised her that regardless of what she does for the next 3 days, i will not go mental on her.
I still cannot stop her from doing what she is going to do, whatever that is. Why does the human mind always expect the worst. I have always planned for the worst and the best.
Perhaps I should just plan for the best. If i can get my head around that... She's fallen asleep putting our S to sleep. Insanity is that i'm going to wake her and see if she wants to go out still. Plan for the best DDJ.
Insanity is that i'm going to wake her and see if she wants to go out still. Plan for the best DDJ.
I may have missed it, but I didn't notice she confirmed she wanted to go... if you
don't wake her, what's likely to happen?
- If she didn't want to go anyway, you will get to avoid the bad news and she may be surprised that you didn't pursue her and that you went out to have fun without her.
- If she did want to go, then she'll know she has to be more assertive next time if she wants on-board the DDJ train.
Thx for the insight EDF, maybe next time as she was already awake and had made the plans to leave. She was meant to go out today, changed to yesterday, but cancelled yesterday, and was back on for tonight. What can I do anyway.
We spoke earlier about the inappropriateness of coming home so late, especially in building trust. I never got an apology, not that i expected one, just that she loses track of time.
She is going to go out, whether I separate, D, cry, plead or do nothing.
My emotions will still be there. I need to learn how to control it...mmmhhh... control issues, yet I cant control my own emotions. Now that's a challenge that i'll accept.
Extra goal - and i don't want to confirm my tally for the day - "do not go schizo."
And watched when she was done to go out, never even put on perfume, just threw on a loose jeans and top. She said that I must check tracker if I want to know where she is, I said do you know what thats gonna do - she said - you gonna f-ck yourself up hey... So she said she'll SMS me when she gets where she's going. Small solace really.
But i'm tired after a long day. Gonna go sleep early and hopefully stay that way.
When she gets back, should i push her away or let her hold me? I'm inclined to let her hold me in bed, after pushing her away whole day.
F! i check tracker, she said that she was going to let me know when at place and never got SMS, and she's been at OM2s place for the past 30 minutes. Now my mind is racing...
I'm laughing about it, cos that just means that I need to control my emotions even more. i can do this!
Hopefully that answers your question about whether or not you should let her hold you tonight...
Not sure what you're saying there dream, but i take it that I can let her hold me, I just must control my feelings.
I've gotta think best case, in order to keep up AS-IF. If anything is happening then it will come out one day. I must just watch, listen and validate.
@dream and darknes - are you of the opinion that I should still not be giving off to my WW?
Her one non-wayward friend said that my WW complained to her that I did not want to give off. There is no way that she could have thought that I was going to call that friend, perhaps...
and how do i tell her that? seriously.
oh, and I plan on snooping on her phone during the night. I will not react, I will just do it so that I am informed. I've been through this before and can do it. I must believe.
no. no. no.
She's out at some other dude's house and you're considering giving her affection/attention when she gets home???????????? Especially when this is a dude that we all know wants to have sex with her.... it's not a long-life innocent friendship. It's an emotional affair headed to become physical.
Unless you WANT to be 2nd to OM, then by all means, continue to let her have cake and eat it to. Otherwise, let her be!! Focus on you!
What does it matter what is on her phone? She's WITH HIM RIGHT NOW!!
I just must control my feelings.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
You cant control your feelings right now. What you can do is stop letting your feelings control your actions. Once you do that, your feelings will naturally change.
It's like trying a new food. The first time you may not like it. But eventually, after you keep eating it, you can tolerate/enjoy it.
Your feelings will change naturally. But your actions should be detached from those feelings.
I love you two! OK, it's 2am. I did a great job of sleeping till now. Tummy hungry so going to fill it then back to sleep.
Just got unsolicited TM to state that she's still gonna be partying.
Guess that I can't even give her "cake" for her bday. Lol
As for feelings controlling actions, I get that too. I feel upset, I feel used, I feel like crap, I feel like crying, I am crying. I am going to eat, and then sleep.
I was thinking bout the snooping thing too, let me ride it out. There will be a time for snooping.
As for her cake eating, I plan on saying "i no longer wish to have sex, as I am unsure as to what you may be doing when you go out, this is not to hurt you, but rather to protect myself".
I really don't want to wake up in 9 months and hope that it's not my baby. Cut and run people!
One question for anyone, why can an EA turn into a PA so quickly?
What happens to the persons conscious during this process?
Personally I think that EA can just be a fantasy, but at some point it turns into their reality, they tell themselves this is their soulmate the person they were meant to be with, the only person that understands them, their shoulder to lie to about you and how they never loved you and you and just ap General pos. From there the emotional connection in their mind is set and its easy transition to pa, especially for a woman trying to do everything to secure this magical fairy tale love!
It is their reality, hopefully only while in the fog, but could be for life.
That should be conscience.
Sandi always says to just say 'no thanks' if offered or asked for sex
No thx, not in the mood, is good for me. Thx Ralph.
It's almost 4am. Still no sign of life. I'm realising that the day will come where she actually won't come home at all.
I need to get me some over the counter drowsy makers. Can always take allergy tabs during afternoon to knock me out at night. Would be killing two birds with one stone.
I have the opportunity to put the house in my name. Will cost me a pretty penny but think it's best.Cadet will say do it. Will it not look like I'm wanting a D now? She is risking her job with this behaviour and could take me down with her. Every cent is community of property and she has access to quick money since she works in the bank.
Mine was always searching for something to satisfy her. Nothing was ever enough. I guess that they are letting their emotions dictate their actions. Something we LBSs are learning to overcome.
I hope she finds what she's looking for because I'm not finding it in her. My attraction for her is waning. The laugh that filled me with joy, now pains my ears. The touch that once aroused me is filled with insecurity. The words spoken stab like daggers.
I need to feel this. I need to be present.
My head is racing. The full impact of this is slowly hitting home. I'm mitigating every obstacle that I see. I don't have much anxiety really.
Going to do more to get out of house, especially in the week once we say prays with our S.
I hope Saturday night will go better. But will make sure I take something to keep me asleep.
She finally came in at 6am, said she fell asleep on couch. nice. She kept on re-iterating that OM2 is just a friend, so i said, fine, let me see your phone. Chats with him were quite sanitary. I was a little disappointed, in a non-disappointed way. I've had 3.5 hours sleep and have my blanket in the car. Off to nap soon.
OM2 may be a cover for the doctor friend, who is a black and congolese. But thats not my problem. She sent me her whereabouts at 12 / 2 / 4.
Dream said that I'm separated. For the first time I feel that we are. Whats the difference if I give up on my M or not - will it change the process? I feel like i'm giving up.
I gave her no affection or attention when she came home. I just validated what she was saying about her nite out. I need to keep it up.
Ouch. I dont think i can do what you are doing. Maybe im just conservative but the moment my W deliberately spend time at OM house overnight im filling for D.
That or a visit to the OM house with my baseball bat. Dont do that.
Reading the different threads I dont know how any of you do it. Coping with an acting out WW, yes you cant control her but i'll be damnded if i let her drag my name and marriage through the mud.
Is it soo different across the pond, is there no honour or chaste or whatever. Cant you stand up for your M and say whats not right or does noone care anymore? Does everyone feel so entitled to be selfish?
Why is it ok for any spouse man or women to be up all hours of the night with strangers of the opposite sex? How and when did that become ok on the pretext that you cant control his/her life?
You are in the M or you are not. Since when did it become ok to pretend you are single because you are unsure if you want in the M or not? and why do we put up with it?
Sorry venting but reading your sich i wonder why has this culture become this way.
Well to be honest, I can easily D her, I can lock the room door, throw her out as i suggested. But then i'm not learning anything.
It is definitely not okay for to disrespect our M and go out all night. I am not accepting it. But there is something in my character, something sooo deep that I need to change.
Whether she is around or not, I need to change that. I surmise that it's easier to change if she is around. I cannot know where exactly this journey will take me, but what i do know is that hurt and pain is temporary. When those feelings pass, I will be able to be born anew. If i choose to want my WW then, so be it. If not, then so be it too.
Plus I stood up to my M the day before, but who wants someone to stay at home that does not want to be with you. A small part of me wished that she actually started seeing OM2 full time, it will make the pain more real, but possibly more painful.
So i'm back to the drawing board. Giving her space and taking my own. Tomorrow night is going to be hardest, but I no longer have a W. The sanctity of M is broken. Why cry over spilt milk.
Thats an interesting take. For instance i can probably forgive W once for swayying (or maybe not) however if they make a habit out of it i dont feel that i would hold out and stay to work on myself. I can do that alone and divorced.
I don't think i will forgive my WW if she actually cheats. I cheated on my XGF, then a year later we had a break, still were exes. She slept with someone else in those 3 months and I could not look her in the face. I did not want to be anywhere near where another man was.
But i do believe that this process removes those insecurities and you are able to love someone, even the WW, without thinking of the past, just the present and the future. Like it was when you first started going out. It's really detaching the pain, the fear, the sadness. The WW signifies all that we need to detach from.
I don't think i will forgive my WW if she actually cheats
What do you consider to be cheating?
“Inside every child is an ‘emotional tank’ waiting to be filled with love. When a child really feels loved, he will develop normally, but when the love tank is empty, the child will misbehave. Much of the misbehavior of children is motivated by the cravings of an empty ‘love tank.”
If she has physical sex with another person. I know that you just stated that the EA is worse and that we LBHs fob it off, but thats because we see the body as sacred. The mind is not...
She has definitely cheated... mmmhhh... if i don't really think that she has cheated, how is she to understand that she has?
One thing related to love languages, if my WW's are physical touch and words of affirmation, should i not be doing a 180 and actually filling her love tank? I am trying hard on complimenting and noticing the small things she does.
Not wishing her on mothers day, especially since her mother had passed, definitely emptied what little was left in there...
Did you really think you were going to find something inappropriate on her phone after she spent the entire night with OM? My ex was pretty good about deleting anything he didn't want me to read. And when he spent hours of the night with OW, they talked to each other (among other things), they didn't text each other...
Whether or not things work out with your marriage, your goals should be the same. Detach. GAL. Focus on yourself. The roller coaster ride gets smoother as you get in control of yourself.
I am trying hard on complimenting and noticing the small things she does.
This is helping her to have cake and eat it too.
The 180 is about protecting yourself.
I checked the messages going back 4 days, never checked the other friend, so it could be a diversion. Did see that she was never going to go out wednesday tho, the plan was always thursday.
I'm out tonight, slept an hour in the car but some red bulls will help me. Doing the same thing i did last week, supper and a movie by myself. Quite enjoyed it. Tomorrow i'm having a team build with the work. Dropping our S by my mother tomorrow night, taking 2 allergy tabs early afternoon which should prepare me for an okay nights sleep. Sunday going to church with my S and mother, taking WW to lunch for her bday, S going with sooo will make sure its not morantic.
This is so confusing, I guess i 180 on her when she really wants back in. Going to get home, spend time with our S, get done and get going.
Next week we're off to Vic Falls for 3 nights, I will need all the prep work to get me through. i want to stay off the forum whilst there, to see how i cope.
Thank you, as always.
If she has physical sex with another person. I know that you just stated that the EA is worse and that we LBHs fob it off, but thats because we see the body as sacred. The mind is not...
I don't think I said it was
worse, but for a female it can be just as serious, b/c of how the woman's emotions are wired within her. Most men tend to look at a PA as cheating, and do not place as much emphasis on an affair of the heart.
Don't misunderstand. It tears a woman apart to know her H has been physical with another woman. I'm just trying to let you know that EA's are serious to women (even though she lies and says they are just friends and it means nothing).
Well she made the statement that everyone wants to know if I'm cheating on her since I just come and go. I ask who everyone is, and don't get an answer. One of the few good questions I actually ask.
Going to cut my hair tonight, shave, and run out in a rush again. Just to be by myself is what she thinks... Or would like to.
DDJ,
Supper and a movie with yourself. Before I was married I'd do that on occasion.
The reminds me of a sports news blooper. Way back when Michael Jordan retired from basketball, one of the sportscasters asked him, "Now that you're retiring from team sports, what are you going to do, play with yourself?"
So, to all left-behind spouses, what will you do? What will you do?
Going to cut my hair tonight, shave, and run out in a rush again.
Great!
Just to be by myself is what she thinks... Or would like to.
Sigh. Why does it matter?
Stop playing games and focus on you!
I am focusing on me. I'm going to enjoy myself for myself. Sometimes i can't help myself, but i'm getting there darknes, I'm getting there.
Can't believe i'm typing this. My WW offered me "oral" before i go out this evening. I said, thx, but not interested.
She showed me video of house party she was at, and pics of club - she never drank cos she had to drive too. Really trying to earn my trust... Told her that I'm happy she's going out, I just find that the time that she comes home is inappropriate.
I'm celibate now. Gave up porn too doodler. Probably gonna wake up one morning and my pants is going to be iffy. LOL
So WW is still trying to reassure me with whatsapp. She plays a voice note from wayward BFF without vetting it first...
"So have you decided if you're going to invite your H with tomorrow night?"
I simply say "nice" in a somewhat surprised tone. I've already made plan for tomorrow night so will decline. I reckon i need about 6 months to focus on me!
Well she made the statement that everyone wants to know if I'm cheating on her since I just come and go. I ask who everyone is, and don't get an answer. One of the few good questions I actually ask.
This is projection. She's cheating on you, therefore she's accusing you of cheating on her. Straight from the wayward handbook. It doesn't really matter who "everyone" is because it's all in her mind. Since you're going out and "being sneaky," it's OK for her to do the same. Except that she's not being innocent and has developed feelings for another man... that she enjoys spending the entire night with while you stay home with your child. You're a live-in babysitter for her! Plus, you go out of your way to make her feel good about herself... and you'll even treat her for her birthday!! But you won't wish her happy mother's day... so confusing! This is why playing these games aren't helping to fix anything with your marriage. It's certainly not helping you to become someone only a fool would leave. Simply pushing her further and further away.
Do I cancel the lunch, is it too late now? I was kinda misunderstanding the whole 180 thing.
She babysits as much as I do and I'm out whole day tomorrow too. I won't let her enjoy the single life.
I know that I have to be consistent. I know.
OK, I will definitely not be joining her for her bday eve party. Will wish her when I see her in person.
As for the lunch, is there a way to get out of it. I can say that restaurant called saying there's gonna be a function. I could say that I'm out of ideas and then just let her do what she wants, but would it get me closer to my goal?
wait, my goal is to focus on me. Not her. So then I need to do that,on her bday. We're suppose to meet up with pro-marriage friends later in the afternoon. Can arrange something earlier...
I agree with dream on the projection thing. My doctor (M.D.) introduced me to projection (it was after the prostate exam, not during).
I told my doctor that after I'd gotten a new ATM card my wife transferred a bunch of money from our joint account to a newly created personal account. I asked her why she did that and she said that she was afraid I'd use my ATM card to empty our joint account. Huh? If I wanted to empty the account, I'd do it electronically. Using the ATM card would be ridiculous.
My doctor said, "She's projecting; that's what she's thinking about doing." Oh! It's all part of the affair-fog cocktail.
Doodler, any advice on cancelling plan bday plans would be appreciated. I'm thinking of telling her at 11-30 and we're supposed to go at 1pm. Not sure if it's going to help me to focus on me... I'm confused, thx dream.
2x4 at the wrong time. Like there is ever a right time.
I could cancel if she comes home ridiculous hour on Sunday morn again? Saying it's inappropriate and I'd rather spend it with our S.
Wait again. My mind is spinning cos I'm wondering what she's going to think and do. That's not my problem. OK. Now relaxed again. Off to a nightclub where I'm not even going to have one drink. Not done that since 2001! Never gonna alone either...
Just got off the phone with my mother who is such a rock and still does not get what I'm doing. I know that I cannot pander to my WW. I must stay strong. There are always going to be times when I stand and I will fall. I stood for mothers day. I fell for her bday. But now I dust myself off and I stand again.
As long as I don't stay down I am going to win this war.
Just thinking about the pandering... If I do not pander to her needs then she is going to look for it elsewhere. Her current Plan A can either pander to her needs or push away. If he pushes away, I have a chance to become plan A. But I can only stay Plan A if I am the best person that I could ever be. She cannot have doubt about her decision. If I decide to take her back.
So I plan on saying this at the last minute..."i have decided that Id rather spend the day by myself or with our S. You can do what you want, you can take him with or leave him with me but I do not feel like going anywhere."
I must buy something small so that our S can give it to her for her bday, from him.
Also realised that the balance of power financially is hers. I need to wrestle it back. I asked for a wire transfer 3 hours ago and am yet to get a reply to call, text or email. I earn double what she does but will correct it by the end of the month. She's definitely upset that I did not want to give off, and of the prospect that she's not going to get any (from me) for her bday wknd.
But that's life hey.
So WW has decided to not include me in her bday eve plans. I'm a bit anxious but going out now for the next 6 hours to GAL. Should be real tired, will be home at 1am so will hopefully falls asleep. Not going to wish her, until i see her.
Had a good visit to a WAW friend this morning, explaining my problems and correlating them with hers. She still lives with her XH, he was addicted to drugs and she has never healed - 5 years later. I guess everyone is either wayward or left behind. I know which one is worse.
Tomorrow is the start of the rest of my life. If i can get through it as I did mothers day then I can see my path more clearly. And I can prepare for the holiday.
So I believe that my WW will not be coming home at all. How does it escalate so fast... My head is spinning, I'm at a driving range so will make sure that I feel it now, so that I can sleep later.
I know that this is my life. I guess time is not something that one can ask for.
God, keep me...
I love you so very much but I can't see pass the hurt of mothers day, speaking to shakes now and I just want to get you back. Make you feel what I felt.
This is her unsolicited text. I NEED HELP TO REPLY.
Do I tell her to call psychologist helpline? Tell her to make her own choices? I don't know.
I love you so very much but I can't see pass the hurt of mothers day, speaking to shakes now and I just want to get you back. Make you feel what I felt.
This is her unsolicited text. I NEED HELP TO REPLY.
OK let me try to understand.
She wrote to you the bolded above?
That's right. It probably has to do with her going out tonight, and not giving off on her bday wknd yet.
I just re-read this thread.
Why do you continue to have relationship discussions with her and believe what she is saying?
Trust half of her actions and NONE of what she says.
You have been told that.
Do you not believe what we are writing to you?
I would suggest not responding at all about anything relationship wise.
Go back and re-read this thread - you have issued some boundaries,
if you really need to talk relationship talk - then re-state the boundaries and the consequences.
Then STOP!
I've not had any real R conversations with her over the past few days.i was bad earlier in the week tho but have calmed down. I definitely do not believe what she is saying.
I will restate that I cannot control her. I can only protect myself. I will not have an open relationship. Can i say if she cheats that I will D her?
Actually, I think that I should not respond. If she talks when I get home, then I'll validate and verbally state these boundaries...
But I will avoid all R talk, started Thursday. Focusing on myself.
Okay, so going to send this...
I understand that you are hurting. I am hurting too.
That is all that I'm going to send.
Okay, so going to send this...
I understand that you are hurting. I am hurting too.
That is all that I'm going to send.
Good
I get the spinning and uncertainty about which course of action is correct. I really do.
But the speed with which you are spinning is unreal. You went from not responding to responding in 19 minutes.
Slow down! You can't possibly be making good choices at this speed.
Yes, I was spinning too much. But I think that my response was good. This week was a roller-coaster but I'm trying to be consistent. I have to be.
I don't know what to do about tomorrow and her cake eating for her bday. I know I can't stop her actions. But when I disappoint her and do my own thing, she will attempt to hurt me in the best way. That will be that then and my ultimate boundary will be applied. I must focus on me. I know that.
So what do I want for the next two days... I want to validate my WW when I get home now. I want to go out and enjoy my evening with my brothers. I want to get a good sleep. I want to go to church. I do not want my WW to cake eat for her bday, even if that is the final nail in her wayward coffin. Am I on the right track?
I'm by my mother and only need to be home in an hour so need all the help I can get. Thx