last post of old thread
I should say I recently discovered my wife had started this blog
it scream MLC to me, and is something she started to do around the time I noticed changes.
Later photos do not have her wedding ring either, something she lied to me about at the time.
I know I need to detach, but felt this was a decent enough chunk of information that would help me determine if in an MLC or not.
link to old thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2658107#Post2658107
right very confused again about W behaviour and recent interactions
we agreed to go a walk to about stuff the other night - spent half the walk just chatting about all sorts of stuff, family, friends, kids etc.
Then she shift chat onto more serious stuff. She still says she does not know what she wants. Doesn't want a D, but doesn't want R either. Thinks the current situation is OK and doesn't acknowledge effect of separation on children - thinks because she sees them happy they are ok.
Still has "dream" of living in city and working at museum. Is getting worried she's turning 35 this year. Doesn't think she's in MLC. Says she is happier now, but also talked in detail about what was wrong - apparently didn't feel loved enough, and I never "chased" her - seemed strange to me as it's not how I remembered it.
I validated all this as best I could but probably pursued too much too.
Then discussing finances, she said wants nothing!
Only sticking point is kids and access - still wanting me to pick them up in the week to suit her work arrangements (I'm full time she is not). This seems cake eating, she is also refusing 50/50 care, which is what I want since still feel kids and family has been ripped from me.
Very confused about the whole chat, she says she has no resentment now, but equally I see no desire to revive R, and at the same time she seems to indicate current sitch is ok which it is not as it doesn't allow me to move on.
To top it all off she asked if I wanted to go on hols with her M&D and kids during summer, I simply said I don't think that would be appropriate.
HELP!
[quote=srt]Doesn't think she's in MLC. Says she is happier now, but also talked in detail about what was wrong - apparently didn't feel loved enough, and I never "chased" her - seemed strange to me as it's not how I remembered it.
I validated all this as best I could but probably pursued too much too./quote]
srt,
My WW doesn't think she is MLC either. Mine says the same thing, I never pursued. You did the best you could in the conversation.
[quote=srt]
Only sticking point is kids and access - still wanting me to pick them up in the week to suit her work arrangements (I'm full time she is not). This seems cake eating, she is also refusing 50/50 care, which is what I want since still feel kids and family has been ripped from me.
Very confused about the whole chat, she says she has no resentment now, but equally I see no desire to revive R, and at the same time she seems to indicate current sitch is ok which it is not as it doesn't allow me to move on.
/quote]
She is cake eating. My WW wants to move our 5 boys to another country and expects me to move there also. Protect yourself and your kids. Although I want the family to stay together, I cannot control WW and have to accept the path to a D.
Hi JimKao, my thoughts exactly.
If she doesn't want to be my W, why would I want to pick up the kids and watch them for her? I'd much rather have them on times that suit me. This seems totally lost on her.
In other news D(now 8!) is not too well, W is freaking out about this and reaching out a bit for support. I'm trying to validate and do this but not get too involved with W. W also seems to blame herself that this has happened due to her actions - she was crying thinking the kid had cancer.
Will be getting tests done, just gonna try and be there for D & S and validate like hell to the W, hopefully she will realise there is a reason marriage is an institution as it provides support to each other at these times.
Sorry to hear that your daughter isn't feeling well. I hope the tests aren't painful and that you get good news soon.
Checking in again
2 recent interactions just highlighting to me how bloody batsh!t crazy W is (that is the only way I'm coping with this - to me she is mentally ill!)
first one was drop off at weekend, where W came in (late) distressed, and wanted to ask me something but then said it did not matter. Ended up she told me - she needed someone to watch kids a weekday night and a school day since she had work commitments. I said I thought you didn't want me to have kids weekdays and you didnt want my folks to watch kids during the day, since she had previously refused. She ended up upsetting herself and stormed off, returning 2 mins later to sulk in the MH. When she returned she shouted at me and I said I'm not speaking to anyone who treats me like that. After 10 mins of her waiting, whilst I was playing outside with kids, she came out and apologised and wanted to talk. She was worried about daughter and soem other stuff which was consequential of our separation (can't remember exact details). She also started moaning about her mail. I've collected this for her since she moved out but she still wanted to blame me for not giving it to her. I simply said I put it in a bag as we had agreed and reminded her it's there for her when she wants to collect it. She was also very upset since daughters medical letter had not been sent to MH, instead to her apartment. I validated what I could and was very careful not to step in and try and solve it for her or comfort her.
Fast forward to today, W arrived late (again) and was complaining of feeling ill. Sore stomach, ears, teeth, and feeling under weather (seems to be a pattern). When leaving was complimenting me about things, and generally seemed a world apart from the monster on previous encounter. Again she offered to do ironing for me to which I agreed.
In other news I've been doing slightly better with GAL. Still having down moments though, and struggling with the lack of intimacy. Again feel like I should be doing more or spotting a sign but then realise I can only work on me.
I previously posted a blog my W had been working on and it seemed full blown MLC to me. I have the link for anyone who would like to give me their opinion.
I checked out the blog briefly when you posted the link earlier. It didn't strike me as evidence of a MLC. Can you elaborate on what you see in the blog that makes you think MLC?
It was many things, the illusion of trying to be youthful, shots and comments about getting old, constant photos of self/comparisons, and the quotes of random stuff such as what people should or should not be able to do.
It was many things, the illusion of trying to be youthful, shots and comments about getting old, constant photos of self/comparisons, and the quotes of random stuff such as what people should or should not be able to do.
Many women have blogs that are focused on outfits and what to wear. In that context, her blog did not seem unusual, at least not in the brief time I spent poking around.
Having another tough couple of days.
After our long walk been thinking over many things she had said - didn't feel I paid her enough attention, she said she just wanted me to grab her ass or something!
Starting to worry now that the detachment and NC (I've not initiated anything) are counterproductive? She was receptive to the long walk, and did say we could do it again sometime, but I've been leaving it to her and she has so far not mentioned it yet (1 week ago now).
Also I feel I need to get a better stand legally and with the kids. At the moment life is tough since I feel I don't see them enough. Also going to see what financial safeguards I can get put in place to protect me if the [censored] hits the fan.
didn't feel I paid her enough attention, she said she just wanted me to grab her ass or something!
Don't fall for that. She's equally responsible for the relationship you had. She could have grabbed your ass, or made it clear to you that's what she wanted, but she didn't. Don't let her revise history and second guess yourself. Don't let her make you jump through hoops like a trained poodle.
The outlook you need to have is "what does SHE need to do to get the privilege of spending time with you?" That's the position of power you want to operate from. Your life is awesome, why should she get to share it?
Acc
yep I suppose you are right.
I'm treading a careful line at the moment between being assertive and NOT being accused of being awkward.
difficult, since her family's meddling has resulted in similar accusations before.
Finally got legal advice today, which has given me some comfort. Hopefully will get a result on access soon which at least will make my current sitch more bearable.
In other news GAL is going well - good weather helps immensely, but can also catch you unawares - how do other members cope with thoughts about how things would or should be with W when it's triggered by a random thing?
Thanks for the encouragement as well folks, you have no idea how heartening it is to hear the words of wisdom and support shared on here.
Feel like I need to update this but some of the things I was thinking about in the last few days escape me.
W still cycling between being distant and "friendly", I'm still not instigating contact about anything - not sure if I should change this, somehow don't get the feeling she really wants any interaction.
Going back to counselling this week to get more access to kids, looking for 50/50 and will be putting strong fight against anything less.
Getting kids organised for my brothers wedding in the summer, W I think wants to be "around" at this event to see kids. Personally don't understand why she would want to be near my family after what she has done?
Also W asking if I can have kids overnight and then take them to my parents in a few weeks since she has work commitments, again I'm inclined to say sorry but can't help. She has shown no consideration for my feelings through this, and has made no attempt to resolve any of "our" issues, so why should I let her cake ear on this one!
W has birthday this week too. She has been showing signs of MLC over last year or 2 so it will be interesting to see what this is like. Kids and I went and got some small presents yesterday for them to give her, and we are making big 35th Birthday cards! I'm simply going to wish her a happy birthday when I see her this week.
Finally, as I've mentioned before W wants no settlement from me, does not want house, any money, and does not even accept maintenance for kids. This has made no sense to anyone I talk to about it - could it be guilt, or is it her trying to gain/show her independence?
Got the feeling she is slipping away again, she usually asks if I have shirts to iron and takes them, last meet she saw they were there but did not take them, I said nothing
The detaching is going better now I think too, but I must try hard to ensure I'm not coming over as cold or not caring. Still want the rollercoaster to stop but I know I'm not driving, getting a better idea of what Accuray is suggesting - what SHE has to do to win me back.
I do know she will probably suggest she can share a house, as friends, for the sake of the children. This is a no-go for me, BUT, I want to know what it suggests, still in the fog? not "done"? cake-eating? MLC?
Sometimes think it's my luck I picked a nutter!!!
checking in again.
Think I am well and truly detached now, finding it hard to think of reasons to remain in M. W has treated me v badly, went in a rage at counselling, and then behaved like a teenager for rest of session. Not sure if she realises the reality of what a D is like.
For me I have been GAL as much as poss, nice weather here so making it easier. Time with kids has been great, hopefully increasing again soon.
Starting to feel excited about life again, have realised how unhappy W's family made me, constant interfering, sniping and controlling our schedule. Don't miss that one bit.
Excited also about possibility of a new relationship, none of the old "baggage". I know I'm not ready by any means, but it does give me some comfort that I'm gonna not only survive this but come out the other side one hell of a lot stronger.
struggling with the point of all this now.
I've DB'd for me, made some gains, but it seems to be two steps forward and one step back.
I know our issues can be easily worked on and solved, and I know my part in this, but she is unwilling to accept the circumstances which caused all this, or work on the M at all.
I feel like giving up but I know that is not an option.
W has major communication issues and seems happy to bury her head in a mixture of work, facebook, and doing "family stuff" with her M&F. She is oblivious to the effect of this on her children, and is annoyed by how calm and collected I am.
I've been working on tough love principle, and trying to show her exactly what a D looks like.
TBH I am still unsure what her actual problem is, after the resentment she has for me. AFAIW the is no OP, unsure if W is WAW or wayward. I and many of my friends think she is in MLC, but this may have been brewing for 4 years now???
FOO issues galore, MIL v enmeshed, and FIL controlling. Result is W feels like a little girl around them and is happy to jump to their tune - I was not.
W family aware of issues prior to DB day but did nothing - no suggestion of counselling??? Instead happy to support her ripping family apart!
W was giving all signs of being in an affair, and when confronted upon the problem took every opportunity to deny or play down the situation.
After DB she said she had "bottled it all up" and was "done".
I feel like no option but to get legally sorted with division of assets now, before things sour. MC has said we are now at the point where we cannot salvage things - I wonder how she can know this - I know I'm still willing to work on it and certain that if we put in the effort it can be saved. W knows this and has made no effort to do so.
How long do I wait for her?
How can I tell if she is in MLC?
Is pursuing legal division of assets pushing her towards a D?
Is tough love backfiring on me?
Should I change my strategy?
So many questions, please help me out folks, even if only a reply of support.
This week has been one of the toughest in the last 10 months.
is anyone out there following my thread?
I'd really appreciate any advice or replies you can give
srt,
Do you love your wife?
Hi,
MC counsellor tried to tell me that I "used" to love my W - not sur ehow she can say this though without an indepth discussion?
I still have strong feelings for her, care about her and feel attracted to her. I still want to work this out, yet I know how serious the situation is now.
So in that respect yes I do still love her, but equally I can see how much she has hurt me.
Why do you ask?
So in that respect yes I do still love her, but equally I can see how much she has hurt me.
Why do you ask?
srt,
It's hard for me to put my finger on it, but there's something different about your post relative to the typical LBS post. I'm under a time constraint right now so I'll be brief, but I don't know if I'll be able to capture the essence of what I'd like to say.
It seems to me that most LBS take on much of the blame for the state of their marriage even though their spouses are cheating on them. You, on the other hand, are blaming your wife and her family and others to a greater extent than I'd expect.
I'll have to put more thought into it and expand on it this weekend. For some reason you or your situation seems different from the norm so you're harder to help because it's difficult to relate to you.
I'm not trying to be mean, I'm trying to be honest and helpful. I don't have any recommendations other than IC right now.
I'll give it more thought and see if I can better explain myself later this weekend.
Hi, I've been through all the emotions and blame for myself, and believe me I did blame myself to begin with. I've also worked on myself and being the best dad and person I can be.
I really do now think I've transformed, after all this is now nearly 10 months since bd.
I think I've came to terms with the way I was reacting to her crisis, and now honestly don't think I'd have been able to do much different. Maybe I'm moving on subconsciously, but I know atm I still want her back.
srt,
I understand I've been through the same metamorphosis. And now you've become totally frustrated. I understand!
I'll read through your thread over the weekend and maybe I can offer some constructive help.
Hang in there. I know it's tough, particularly when you're always the bad guy.
Hi doodler, thanks for taking the time to repl, yes, I feel incredibly frustrated, and feel like I should be doing something, however I understand in reality there is very little I can do to "control" the situation i.e. her actions are decided by her not me.
It's the effect on my kids I'm most scared of, that and her rewriting marital history, as well as this unrealistic "dream" she has about her future life. It's like she is undermining everything we had which was good, and our marriage did have many good times, unfortunately she cannot see past the recent difficult times.
I suppose I'm looking for an MLC diagnosis, but I'm aware there are many other signs there which might not back this up.
If anyone can help me with my questions I'd really appreciate it.
Do you think the MC is pro-marriage? I don't have any experience with couples therapy, but I know the DB book and lots of forumers have pointed out that not all counselors will have a positive impact on the R, especially if they are more prone to wallowing in the old pains rather than helping find "solution-based" ways for the two of you to move forward and start making things better.
From some of the comments you say the MC has made, I'm not sure it is currently helping.
srt,
I don't know much about MLC and I constantly trip over myself when I DB. I assume your wife is still in an EA and possible PA; is that correct? I also assume you're still separated?
I guess I just don't feel like I've been around long enough to provide valuable feedback. What I get from reading your posts is that you want your wife back, but it doesn't really sound like you have deep feelings of love for her. And again, I could be reading too much into your posts.
Do you really want her back or are you just looking for an explanation of her behavior?
Hi, MC is neither pro or against M. W is very resistant to makign "positive" changes, having previously said she is "done", it is "over" and she "does not want to try".
W is not in a PA afaiw, also not in an EA I think although she previously was. Not sure I really care if she is or isn't in one (trying to detach), at the moment she is not the person I know.
Believe me I do still love her and want her back, but I don't want the current version of her back; the one that doesn't respect me, blames me and is angry.
Our chat last month after a long walk revealed the most to me; she seems content with the current situation and does not see any problem with it continuing into the future. This seems like cake eating to me and I'm taking all the steps I can to prevent this and be assertive.
She has also recently written off her car, things will get interesting soon I feel!
srt,
In my opinion, the very best thing you can do is focus on you. Improve yourself. Get a life (GAL). Get your mind off of your marriage and stop trying to get your wife back. Your best chance of getting her back is improving yourself.
I really think it's that simple.
You know, I'm starting to feel this way. I would like my wife to return and our family to be whole, but not the pod person that has currently taken over my wife. She's more worried that I might get "someone involved in 'our' business" than her walking away from her family and destroying our marriage.
It's like you just want to shake them out of it and give them their common sense back. My wife acts like she's happy with the situation and content with her choice. I know her too well. She pretends to be tough, but is a big softy. She needs me too much in her life to just go cold turkey. It's getting easier to detach now, but I worry that when she finally snaps out of it I will have gotten too disgusted to want to do the hard work to repair things together.
Sorry, I went off on a tangent really. Your first sentence is exactly what happened to me today.
Good luck with MC. Hopefully your W comes outta the fog!
Hi RSG, what do you mean by POD person? Not heard this term before?
My W is looking miserable every time I see her, yet she is still complimenting me? Am I missing something, should I be complimenting her back? or first?
Not been on for a while and thought things were slowly improving, however recent events don't seem to indicate this.
W has said at counselling that she misses me, wishes things could be like they used to be, and does not like the current circumstances. She knows current sitch is not working, yet continues to fiercely oppose any increase in contact I can get with S&D. She has openly said that she has tried everything and now thinks the only thing left to do is for us all to move back together. I have simply said that will only work if she wants to and is committed to working on our relationship.
She also seems to spend most of MC moaning about her mother, yet still failing to take on board or do anything about it, despite suggestions of counsellor.
We were meant to meet to discuss things together outside MC (I think this is counsellor trying to kick start some form of "dating") but W has done nothing about this. We were clear in MC that since she was the one who had left, has to be the one to make the 1st move. I've been holding her to this - when checking if she still wants to meet she is non-committal and vague, wanting me to say when and where we meet. She is also reflecting this back to me, accusing me of being vague since I said I can meet anytime, just let me know!! I feel this meeting would be a waste of my time, since if she wanted to meet I wouldn't have to ask - she would be shouting!!!
She is currently in the huff, and says she no longer wants to go to MC since she comes out confused and feels crap about herself. She wants me to cancel the next session but I'm not going to. I'm going to go to the next session anyway, on my own if needs be, to discuss what we do next.
I don't know what I can do other than continue to DB and see what happens. W is resistant to making ANY changes, and becoming more dependant than ever on her M&F. I do sometimes worry that they are poisoning her against me but know there is nothing I can do about that.
W has said she thought leaving would make her happy but it has not. She says she has no money, does not go out, and complains she doesn't get to be part of my life. She is also very concerned with what people think about her and rumours in the town we live. I've been leaving her to figure out that this is what it will be like to be divorced, seems she has noticed but it hasn't twigged yet.
I KNOW there is still a spark there (and this makes it even harder for me, especially when trying to keep detached) since small "moments" keep happening, and she freely admits this in counselling. However she is very resistant to coming forward and talking or making any changes to our circumstances. What is she scared of?
I really don't know what to do, to me it seems like she wants to be "rescued" yet I know things will not work unless she addresses her issues and her mother's controlling influence on her. She says she feels she has not done anything since age 13 that gets her mothers approval - classic root cause of crisis??
I think she is still in MLC, and obviously very confused, the anger and bile I've had to put up with today are getting me down. It also saddens me to think the children are being dragged through this.
Any advice, comments or support very welcome - I do feel very lonely standing.
Hi folks, bumping this up again in the hop of some advice.
My wife recently has been complaining I'm being awkward and I'm "punishing" her - I've been trying to detach and not do anything for her she can do herself. I feel I'm trying to show her exactly what being divorced/separated is like, but do find it hard to reply to these accusations - I've been saying I'm sorry you feel like that, and I'm just living my life the best it can be for me and the kids.
Is this an attempt to reel me in or is it her way of crying for help? She has admitted she is wanting me to sweep her off her feet, yet will not sit down and discuss our future together. She has also said of all the things she wants to do (holidays, travel etc) that she see's me there! She has definitely noticed all the positive changes I have made.
Finding the whole situation very confusing and want to make sure I'm not going to mess up - advice or support please people esp Sandi! x
Anyone at all out there reading this?
If so I'd appreciate any advice that can be given from my posts over the last few months.
Is this an attempt to reel me in or is it her way of crying for help? She has admitted she is wanting me to sweep her off her feet, yet will not sit down and discuss our future together. She has also said of all the things she wants to do (holidays, travel etc) that she see's me there! She has definitely noticed all the positive changes I have made.
srt,
I think your wife is trying to keep her options open. That seems to be a common theme; keep the husband on the hook as long as possible (i.e. having the cake and eating it too).
That comes with a disclaimer; I'm terrible at the DB stuff. Maybe darknes, betterm or someone else will stop by. (Hint: You can post to their threads.)
Is this an attempt to reel me in or is it her way of crying for help?
I would say both.
I think you are on the right track don't let her reel you in,
or is that what your divorce is going to look like.
Her crying for help and you continuing to provide it after you are divorced?
Hi, I'm trying my absolute best to allow absolutely NO cake eating.
However I'm starting to think maybe I am being TOO hard - as in she is complaining I'm punishing her. Things I suppose I'd do for other people I'm downright not doing for her e.g. reminding her she has mail, etc etc.
I'm wondering if a slight softening might be worth trying?
sorry forgot to say thanks earlier to you both
It's been a long time since I've had any feedback as to the path I'm taking and whether it is the right one.
Hi, I'm trying my absolute best to allow absolutely NO cake eating.
srt,
However I'm starting to think maybe I am being TOO hard - as in she is complaining I'm punishing her. Things I suppose I'd do for other people I'm downright not doing for her e.g. reminding her she has mail, etc etc.
I'm wondering if a slight softening might be worth trying?
I varied a lot, between hard and soft, while my wife was still living in the house. The DB coaches tend to be soft. Soft never seemed to work for me, but maybe I wasn't patient enough, I don't know. When I took a harder stance, I felt better about myself; I didn't feel like a doormat.
I think the "hard or soft" question is somewhat situation dependent. And, it may also be dependent on the personalities involved. I'm generally a soft person, but when it comes to my WW, I'm tough as nails. If I don't stand up to her she'll squash me under foot.
That's a long non-answer. I'm hoping some else can do a better job.
My W is not very confident, and I've been pretty hard for a while now. I'm figuring it's time to give SOFTER a chance, whilst still maintaining boundaries and my dignity.
She herself does seem to be softening towards me, but is also cycling. I suppose I've got to ensure I'm being loving whilst still being neighbourly - previously I think I may have been doing things more against her than for me.
I'll try this with a beginners mind! Wish me luck
Good luck!
so far so good,
W stayed as long as any time recently, talking about her recent hols w kids at last changeover. We agreed to meet again to talk about M, we'll see if and when that happens, a date has been set.
Also W did raise her concerns about her Mom and how she is difficult to be around - that's good in that it takes the spotlight off me and shows her what a life of D and holidays with M&P would be like!!!
The slight softening seemed to get her to open up a bit and show some real emotions, but nothing like on the scale I saw at counselling.
Gonna try and have some fun this week with kids, camping, fishing, etc etc
W just phoned to ask if she could come round to collect something - she realised she had left it here after checking her mail (which she is v forgetful about - only collected it 2 times in 10 months!)
She then came round, collected item, made a fuss of kissing the kids and left.
Kinda glad she doesn't feel like she can't come round, but still hoping for more.
I guess I need to continue to detach, just this recent revelation about her missing me, and a complete inability to make any decisions or actions to meeting up have put me through the mangle a bit again.
I stayed positive and cheery through both our interactions this evening, glad I managed to stay cool. I've also taken to looking her in the eye a lot more - hopefully this will come across as confidence and warmth, as opposed to hostility as I know my body language is positive and non-confrontational, as was hers tonight.
checking in again folks
we have been to counselling and W now wants to date to "see how she feels" about me. This terrifies me to be honest and I know I am not detached and getting my hopes up - hard to 2x4 myself when I want this so much yet I don't know why?
She is still showing big signs of MLC, moans at having no money and feeling old.
I also think she is trying to trap me - corner me into saying it will not work so I must D her, that will not be happening.
We have met up on a few occasions, I have found it hard to accept behaviour of my son at these - he is particularly clingy and stupid around W and this annoys me since he is very polite and mature in my company. W was getting annoyed at me reprimanding him so I asked her what she expected me to do? I'd like to say we sorted this out but in the end I think she was just looking for a rise so I STFU.
We have some couple dates coming up, and it seems so long since we did anything together, since kids have taken up so much of our time. Any tips on how to manage this since our counsellor has said we really should be targeting spending time EACH DAY, with each other. At the moment this seems miles away (and it is!) so would like any tips or strategies that may help to move things along without being pushy.
I now need to make sure I relax, and I'm calm and super confident around her, I know she said she misses me making her laugh and being funny. Guess I need to keep working on that!
Hi SRT - in terms of the dates, I think the phrase "move things along without being pushy" is the one to watch out for. That's still trying to control things and move them in the direction you want.
I think the best way would be to accept things are just as they are right now. However, you are an interesting and funny guy and two hours in your company can be pleasant. If you can achieve that with no expectations or trying to "move things" that is the best way I think.
Just remember, tiny drops will fill the bucket up....but it does take time and patience...
Hi Sotto, thanks, as always, patience and acceptance seem the key.
I kow I feel I must stoke the fire before it goes out, haste would not allow her to fully see me though...
I guess I need to keep up my spirits and have no expectations - more difficult to do than say.
struggling a little to know how to approach this "dating" - especially in times when I'm not with W and have the kids.
Do I continue DBing and minimising contact? Or do I start to soften a bit more?
I'm reluctant to arrange family things during the time I have kids if she is not willing to do that in "her" time - seems like cake eating and I will have enabled it.
Regarding dates - should I be the one to bring it up, or always let her? Previously I was not the best at arranging stuff like this and usually left it to her - a 180 or pursuing?
hey folks, checking in again
have found the last few days difficult again, dates seem to be going ok (reluctant to say "well" since I don't want to get my hopes up - yeah I know about expectations!!!)
I'm guilty of always overthinking things, and I know she is "scared" of getting hurt / doing the work.
Any tips on my last questions?
srt,
I read your last few posts. I don't have any tips for you, but your posts did give me some food for thought. What would I do if my WW wanted to date me? (Um yeah, that's never going to happen.)
I've changed so much that I have difficulty imagining dating my wife. I'd certainly make my WW pay for the dates. Assuming we'd go to a restaurant, I'd probably hump her leg at the restaurant just to create an embarrassing scene. Then maybe we could go to a movie and I could dump popcorn in her lap. And at the end of the night, I'd get her to pull my finger and then have her Uber herself home. In other words, I'd try to make it an unforgettable evening.
Hi doodler, thanks for the reply!
Not quite sure how to take it though??
Yes I'm very reluctant to show all my cards or throw myself in there - she has to show she WANTS this. However I then get worried about a stalemate. How can I keep the door open without being a doormat and allowing her to eat cake? I take this as me meaning she must instigate dates, and volunteer "family time" in her contact time.
Another poster put it as give back exactly as much as she puts in...
What I want to know is do I keep doing full on DB during the time, nc, no pursuing etc etc, or do I soften slightly to see what will happen.
Very confused, and concerned, but want to be consistent since I am worried about being played on this...
Guess she still has a long way to go to rebuild my trust
Hi doodler, thanks for the reply!
Not quite sure how to take it though??
srt,
What I said wasn't meant to be taken any particular way. I certainly wasn't trying to imply that you should be the date from h3ll. Mostly, I was thinking aloud. When I read your post I realized that if I had to start dating my wife I'd be at a loss as to what to do.
I don't think I'd make it the date from h3ll as I'd suggested in my previous post, but given my situation, I would be very skeptical of my wife's motives. However, I probably would hump her leg in public as a tiny payback for all of the trouble she's brought my way (and it'd be fun).
Hi, your reply brought a little light into my day!
I struggle to stop myself overthinking these things.
I know I need to let go of any resentment I have, be open to reconcilliation, but also avoid cake eating - a delicate balance.
I also need to remind myself that neither my W or I need to do this (dating) so I guess I just gotta keep taking it a day at a time and remaining upbeat.
Not sure if I'm needing a hit, but it struck me that maybe I should now be behaving differently since in effect I think I might be in "piecing", the early stages?
Am I being too optimistic? Or does this signal a change in tactics?
I am worried my W thinks I have been "playing" her, since I've tried to dish out tough love with all her decisions and interactions so far.
OK folks a bit of an update
we continue to "date" but W is not prepared to make any changes yet - when I ask what she thinks we should do/change she says we are doing this (dating)
When on dates I try to be upbeat and carefree, and think I'm doing pretty well on the small talk and conversations we are having. I also seem to have got the message not to push some things when I gauge her response as not being positive. We are still planning time together, but I'm unsure as to how "positive" the signs she is giving out about this.
I understand it will be very difficult at first, and have decided now to stop any kind of pressure as I know it will not be helpful. My questions regards the "37 rules" and which ones may now be a hindrance to reconcilliation?
I tink I've been reasonably good at letting her know what a D looks like, and I know through family friends she hates it that I am able to get on with things w the kids in her absence. To what degree should I be "softening" things? I do not want to be a doormat at all, yet I've been reading on the MLC forum (for which she has displayed every sign at some point in the last year) that doormat tactics are sometimes what is required.
Still feeling lost.............. hoping her fog will lift
Hi folks, is anyone able to give me some advice on this?
OK folks a bit of an update
we continue to "date" but W is not prepared to make any changes yet - when I ask what she thinks we should do/change she says we are doing this (dating).
srt,
It sounds like cake eating to me. Like a super-duper five layer chocolate cake.
srt - I'm not really sure what to think here. On the surface it seems that you and your W have completely different expectations on what "date" means.
It sounds like you are looking at it as a pathway back into the MR and that she's looking at it as a nice night out with a friend. Has she give you any indications of her future plans? Does she seem lost? Other than the rumours of her being jealous of your time with the kids does she seem to miss the MR?
She may be walking a completely different path than you towards who knows what destination.
I've done some reflecting since my last post to think over how I have been.
I know I am still too attached, and tbh feel myself getting sucked back in, I know this is not doing me any good to the point where I feel incredibly anxious on our "dates".
I know I need to relax, chillout and stop getting worked up about this. W has said she does want to see me just doesn't want to feel pressured, so I suppose I need to respect that.
I terms of our sitch I think she has finally twigged what a D would look like and has decided not to pursue the for the time being.
The difficulty I have is she is not "all in" to the dating on reconciliation, yet I know my db'ing pisses her off. Yet in my attempts to reach out I don't feel she is willing to reciprocate, it is just taking and requesting things by her. I'm not sure if I want to let her do this, since I would not be happy in a one-sided M.
She has said she thinks I am a wonderful dad, and can see herself in a relationship with me, but my feelings seem to be sabotaging things. I have made a situation out of nothing a couple of times recently and I know I need to stop it - previously I was cool as a cucumber but now feel like this is the last throw of the dice and I'm desperate for it to work.
What I'm finding hard is my sitch seems in-between full on db and piecing, yet I want to ensure I'm not doing any more damage.
forgot to thank you two guys for your posts above
yes my W has asked for some things which previously I would have considered "cake eating". I suppose I need to be more open to giving if this is going to work.
also yes I know I am looking at it as a pathway, that's my logical organised rational side poking out. The problem is I don't feel like I'm able to show her my best side due to my worries... this is my problem I know and I'm trying to deal with it.
Hi folks, checking in again after an eventful couple of weeks. W and I have continued to meet up approx once a week to spend some time together.
We had went to a local bar for a drink, however since I was driving ordered a coke, and she wanted herbal tea! She seemed on edge all evening, even though I was comfortable and projecting confidence. We chatted about lots of things, and some possibilities for future "dates" but I sensed she was not as positive about this as me. Evening ended when she was saying she was tired (seems to be a recurring theme) and dropped her off at home.
I then vented (in private) to family (who would not break confidence) about how there is no committment there, and how frustrating it is to do "dating" but with no willingness to come out and say she wants to work on things - just a "lets see how this goes".
Fast forward to the next evening. I have kids and she phones late in floods of tears. She is cut up, crying and saying how sorry she is for everything that has happened and this sitch. I (maybe stupidly) said come round which she did. We then talked for half an hour about all sorts of things. She says she has no confidence, feels old (only 35), thinks her body is falling apart, hates it how she hardly has any time with kids as they don't really want to be with her, thinks she is having an mlc, etc etc. She says she feels really low, never goes out and has been to doctor about it today!
She also mentioned how she was finding the dating hard, she really wants to do it but feels confused. She said she thinks she still loves the EA person, but said she knows she can't have him and that it is stupid. She plain admitted she had lied all the way through counselling about this too, and said last contact was at xmas? She said she had talked with doctor about this and said she needed time to get it out of her system.
Wasn't really sure how to respond to this stuff other than to hear her and try to comfort her as best I can (thinking better not to try anything stupid). In response to the EA stuff I simply said I was not willing to share her and things can not work if she doesn't deal with this. She ended up leaving after calming herself down but was back to being slightly standoff ish again.
This seems to have confirmed for me my W's mlc. I should add she has also recently got a tattoo which she was unaware I knew about.
So, cue forwards to our weekly "date time" and she bails this time. No mention of not doing it (despite we agreed we'd meet that night every week) and she tried to drag me into an argument about how I should have contacted her about it beforehand to check it was on?
The next day (Sat) I got a phonecall out of the blue to go swimming with her and D&S. Knowing what was coming I agreed (love pool time with the kids anyway
) At pool she is dressed in a *stunning* swimsuit and is flashing her new tattoo. I played it cool but now found it hard not to be seriously physically attracted to her, and felt she just did this to drag me back in...
Anyway we have just had out latest date night, during which I stupidly raised the issue of commitment and said I didn't think meeting once a week was going to make much difference to our circumstances. I said that nothing is going to change unless we agree to make some changes, and also said it was difficult to do "dating" when she wasn't committed to it. This was met with some hostility, which I managed to defuse and not engage with. In the end we agreed a pizza and movie night the next day at the marital home.
W arrived for this and in total spend around 3 hours at the MH. We had a good time, some laughs and the kids *loved* it too. A couple of things came up though - she was unwilling to come upstairs to help bath or bed the children. Secondly she avoided being "close" to me, both at meal times and when watching movie. Although I think I can understand why I'd like some advice on how to handle this - I'm expecting to be hit by a large piece of 2x4 with the words "detach" on it though
I'm wondering if I would be better off in the MLC forum now, and id consider if we'd started piecing (but definitely not confident about it enough now to state that)
All comments very welcome, have actually found the last 2 weeks more trying emotionally than the previous couple of months.
bumping for anyone out there in similar circumstances.... how did you deal with this?
Has there been something in your W's childhood that left unresolved issues for her? Was there a tragedy or some incident that impacted her life? Any close loss, recently? Has she had trouble with depression throughout the M?
Have you read any information about a wayward wife?
Hi, I've read and read and read .....
MIL has always "bullied" and controlled W and set very high expectations about everything. W lost grandmother last summer. She has always been a bit up and down - not sure if bipolar or not?
She did visit doctor of her own accord due to her feelings and mood. She said she needed to get EA OM out of her head, but also says she last contacted him at xmas??? Doctor was unwilling to prescribe AD first but will consider them in due course.
W is also diabetic, and MIL lost her M at a young age - all combining to put strain on relationship. I know I'm not perfect either, far from it, but the longer this goes on the more certain I am of mlc & unresolved childhood stuff - a rebellion of sorts.
What I'm wondering is how to approach this "dating", I'm finding it harder than DBing as it is drawing me back in. Yet at times I see glimpses of genuine warmth, but then she can go steely quick too. Just not sure as to why she is doing it if her heart is not in it. I don't want to do any damage or allow cake eating, yet I don't know if this is her sign and way of saying she was to R. W is not very confident and says her self esteem is rock bottom. I'm trying my best to be supportive to her feelings (validating) without agreeing with the not so good bits!
srt,
Hiya! I am Wonka and I am a reformed badass former MLCer. What you post here about W screams MLC to me like bright neon pink lights in a deserted area at night.
I would suggest (and urge) you to move your thread over the MLC forum where you can get the necessary support of like-minded LBS dealing with a MLCer.
For now, it is essential--CRITICAL---to drop the whole "dating" notion you have (or trying to pursue) and leave W completely alone. She's one hot mess right now and 'dating' you isn't going to help her in this journey at all.
FWIW, I was a fairly young MLCer myself....being hit with a MLC at age 32. One does not need to be over 50+ to be hit by the runaway MLC train.
I hope you would seriously consider this suggestion.
Hi wonka, thanks for the reply!
Yes, I too have came to the conclusion that this is less and less about me and more about W.
However I am reluctant to give up the dating, since it was W who raised it. I am going to take your advice and become less demanding and see how that goes.
Mods, how do I get this moved to MLC?
bump for mod request - how do I get this transferred to MLC?
started a new thread in MLC - mods can you move/link this to there?
srt,
It's easy to link your threads to another forum or within your postings. I will be happy to provide you w/easy instructions on how to do so when you get closer to the 100th posting/reply on your new thread.
However, because you had started a new thread over in MLC Land, I've gone ahead and edited your thread to include your two threads.