the continuation of my ramblings, reflections and musings:
so, we had MC today. she is agreeing to go back. so, i'm considering this a productive day. then again, any day you're moving forward and not back is a productive day, right? the MC did think we're not a lost cause... so i'm pretty pleased with todays events.
link to previous posts:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2659220
I assume you mean she agreed to go back to the MC?
yes. she agreed to go back to the MC.
collin,
it's great to hear that your W is going to go to MC. I hope you continue to grow, change and get yourself as straight as possible to help your W through this process too. It's not going to be easy, but this is progress. Use your time wisely!
collin,
That's great to hear brother. Keep us updated on your progress.
Thanks for the support guys. You know it's really unfortunate that we have to all go through this, but if we do, glad we don't have to go through it alone. Going through something like this can be so isolating.
My W had found some people to help her move her stuff out. So, I thought I was in the clear as far as being asked to help her move. Well today she said that one of her coworkers is concerned with her having these people move her stuff and knowing where she lived. After that she asked me if I was still against helping her move. So, it's one of those things where I'm derned if I do and derned if I don't. I don't want to help her leave, but I don't want to ruin any good will and potential reconciliation by being a butt about it either.
One of her biggest complaints is my selfishness. So should I just suck it up, put my big boy pants on, get over it and help her?
No, let her figure it out herself.
She's the one that's leaving the marriage.
No, let her figure it out herself.
She's the one that's leaving the marriage.
Don't help her. I boxed up my WW stuff and had it waiting in the garage. She was shocked when I told her it was in the garage waiting for her. Maybe you can do something like that so you don't have random people walking around in your house (that's why I did it)
today has been rough. nothing really happened. just one of those days where i just wanted to lay on the couch and sleep all day. i have days where things feel promising. then ones like today where i get this overwhelming feeling my life is falling apart.
this post has no point...i just wanted to whine a little bit.
I vent often as well.. It feels good to get it out! That is why this board and the people are here.
Well, I got a cold dose of reality about how cyclical things are going through a separation. Last week everything was so positive. We went to MC. She seemed on board. I was ready to conquer the world and win back my wife. A few days later she found out I had quit taking my meds (zoloft). She got mad and said I'm going back to my old ways and she's not going back to MC. Well last night I apologized profusely, and told her I would get back on my meds (I am - I made the Dr's appt this morning to get my refill) and she agreed (albeit begrudgingly) to go back to MC, but her reasoning was no matter what happens we still have to raise our D.
I know I should be grateful she is willing to go back. But things just don't feel promising right now. I don't know what to do to get them back to that point. Is there anything I can do? Is this something she's going to have to work through?
Collin,
As tough as it is, you have to change your thinking about just about everything. Remember, you can't make her do anything. So, be your best, because that is all you have control over. If staying on the meds helps you be your best, then keep that Dr. appt. and fill the prescription and take the meds. When you talk to your W about these things rather that apologize profusely, which is unattractive and also makes you feel bad, you could instead say - "I agree with you. I have already scheduled an appt. to get the prescription refilled."
Focus on these little things rather that the big picture. The little things are what make the big picture better, not the other way around.
Thanks for your help tjcran. I hopped over into your thread and saw that you're going through your own personal hell. Thank you for taking the time to reply to mine.
I'm so scared. I feel so alone. I'm not sure I know how to GAL. My whole life for the past 5 years has revolved around her. Heck, I can't even come to work to get away from it, because we met as a result of my job. Thank God for this forum or else I would have no one to talk to about it. No one in my family or hers knows what's going on, none of my friends know and only 2 co-workers do. Mainly cause they saw me sitting at my desk sobbing so they asked and I spilled my guts. It felt good to get it off my chest, but they couldn't offer more than the obligatory, "i'm sorry you're going through that, let me know if you need anything..." canned response. One of them is divorced himself, but effectively he was the WAS.
Everywhere I look, everywhere I turn is reminder of her. The wallpaper on my phone, her initial tattooed on my ring finger and our bible verse on my wrist, the pictures at home, the cups we've accumulated on our vacations, everything is a reminder. I can't escape it.
I picture a life without her and I all picture is a life of emptiness and loneliness. It scares me. It just seems useless. Like a life not worth living.
I don't know what to do.
collin - at least you can take comfort in knowing that you aren't alone. I know that I get a lot of comfort here knowing that. Fortunately I found that the two people I've unburdened on through work are hugely supportive and willing to listen. It helps because otherwise I would be screaming in pain alone.
collin,
I agree with tjcran, get the meds and take them. Meds made a huge difference for me.
With regard to MC, I think many people over-value MC. I know I did. My wife gave me a choice between getting a lawyer or an MC. I chose the MC, of course. My wife suggested MC, but did she want MC for the marriage? Hell no! She wanted MC so that I could be fixed. As soon as it was clear that we'd both have to do some fixing, then it went downhill. My wife bailed after the third session.
If your wife isn't totally on-board with MC, then it's probably best to back-off the MC stuff. I could be wrong; get some other input, but be careful with MC, it can go wrong very quickly.
The first thing you do is take a deep breath. Second thing you do is answer the question: who am I doing this for? If the answer is my W, then she is right and its only a matter of time before you go back to your old ways and odds are the M will end up the same way again. If the answer is you, then you won't just go back to your old ways (you wouldn't have to apologize to her)and the M has the best chance of working. Third thing you do is get out and do something you find rewarding. Something that YOU really enjoy. This whole DB process isn't about your W or getting your M back. It's about getting YOU back to being the best YOU that you can be after arguably the most painful event in your entire life. It's very selfish in that way, your W presumably no longer meets your needs. So you have to meet them for yourself, independent of her;I mean you don't have to, but then who are you really helping if you don't? NOBODY. Not you, not her and not your D.
Collin,
Everything people are posting here is good advice - focus on you, take a deep breath, you are not alone. I'm guessing the spot you are in right now is where you can't even think straight since you are obsessing over your W and losing her. We've all been there or are there right now. Here are a couple suggestions that might help. (remember, I'm an amateur, so take it all with a grain of salt.)
First - find someone to talk to. Take a few minutes and really think about all the people you could talk to about this. Choose someone that you think would listen and would respect your privacy. Call them and ask them if you could buy them a cup of coffee. You would be surprised at how many people would be willing to listen and offer support. More people like and love you than you think. I found a friend that I NEVER would have expected would have been as helpful as he has been.
Second, think of one thing that you stopped doing over the last 5 years. Maybe it was a hobby, maybe it was a form of exercise, maybe it was a friend you lost touch with. Even if it seems like you don't want to do that hobby anymore or you don't like that old friend anymore call them anyway or start the hobby again. Why? Because nothing sounds appealing right now - all you WANT is your W back. What you NEED is your life back. Call that friend or start that hobby ASAP.
Final thought for now. MC right now might be something to reconsider. When a spouse attends MC for the wrong reasons it doesn't go well. Usually backfires. If her true motivation for going to MC is anything but she wants to fix the MR no matter whose fault it is, then you may wish to put the MC on hold until she is in the right state of mind.
Good luck.
collin,
I'm sorry you feel down today. I hope you're able to perk-up and maybe go talk with friends or do something fun.
If you're having a lot of down-days, then I'd recommend seeing a doctor about depression. Meds can really help.
Oops, my previous post was in response to an old post by collin. Sorry about the confusion.
the question i have about this whole db process is...one of the major points on contention in our marriage was my selfishness. well if i start living this 'me' centered life, won't that further emphasize her point of view? i just feel like it would be doing far more harm than good. i mean, i get needing to work on myself. i've been trying to. i've been trying to get into running and get into better shape. there's lots i need to do to work on myself. but isn't it completely missing the point if i move on attempt to forge a life without my wife?
i get i have a lot to learn about this. i never in my wildest dreams thought i would be going through this. but i guess that's ultimately why i'm here. i took the marriage for granted.
Here's hoping today is a better day than yesterday. Hopefully after my Drs. appt I can get out to the park and continue working on my running. The past few days I haven't been able to due to storms. Running in hail just doesn't sound fun to me.
One other question I have is. I know a bunch of people on here go to MC by themselves (without their spouse). I've thought about it and even went once without my W and it just doesn't seem as productive. I feel like I can come in here and talk/ask questions/get answers, it would be just as effective and cost a lot less. If you go to MC by yourself, what is it you talk to the counselor about and work on?
I have a lot I need to fix about me. To be a better hub
I have a lot I need to fix about me. To be a better hub
whoops...didn't complete my thought. Nice to see real life also bleeds into cyber life.
That sentence should say:
I have a lot i need to fix about me to be a better husband. I need to work on being more self-less, empathetic, emotionally present, etc...
(Well, guess I just answered my own question.)
Wonder if anywhere there is anything about DB-ing and getting your W's internet set up at her new place. Well, because that's what I'm doing. I've got a call into TWC. It feels so backwards, like I'm helping her leave ME.
No you don't have things to fix to be a better husband.. You have to fix them to be a better you and father. Stop worrying about the R and W, until she wants to committ.
collin,
I have a lot of things to work on as well. When my marriage woes first began, my wife painted a portrait of me as the most inept husband that ever existed. I believed most of it. What puzzled me was that it wasn't terribly long ago that she would gush about how easy it was to be married to me because there were no problems or strife in the marriage. How did I become the evil bastard of husbands within such a short period of time?
The truth is that there is a lot of stuff I need to work on, both as a husband and as a person, but I wasn't an awful husband. Once the switch is flipped in a wayward wife, she only sees the bad stuff and makes up a bunch of other bad stuff to go along with it. Internally they have to justify leaving you, so that's what they do.
The point of all of that is, I'm sure there's a bunch of work for you to do, but you may find that a lot of that stuff fixes itself if you go out and get a life (GAL) and get out and mingle and do something fun (preaching to myself).
isn't it completely missing the point if i move on attempt to forge a life without my wife?
Your W is only calling you selfish so that you will focus on her instead. She wants out of the marriage. She wants to divorce you. Why do you think that by turning into an over-attentive, super-husband that does nothing but chase after her will change her mind?
When you were in high school, did you ever have someone you don't like pine for you? send you love notes, ask you out, etc? How did you/do you think you would have reacted to that?
What I'd urge you to do is take a look at yourself and consider whether you really are selfish. If so, there are plenty of ways to be unselfish that don't relate to her. Give time to a local charity, spend more time with D, volunteer at D's school, help other friends/relatives when they are in need. You can change yourself without centering it on her.
Be the person you want to be.
One thing (of many) that I am confused about is, I have read on other posts where they say the best course of action is to maintain a level of friendship with your W. Work on the friendship, then move forward.
Others say distance yourself/or detach from W (Go into another room, do things on your own, etc...)
I know I am tripping all over myself during this process. But to me they sound like two different actions. If I left the room everytime she walked in and then turned around and tried to be her friend, she'd think I was crazy and send me to the the loony bin.
So I just need some clarification on the correct way to proceed.
(Also, thanks for putting up with me the past couple days. They were definitely the days where it felt like everything is going wrong and the sky is falling.)
Collin: I hear you on the strategy & tactics confusion. You need to address the right here and now plus the long term. Yes and sometimes the short term and long term conflict.
The best advice I got from my DB coach was that I need to show her consistent and permanent changes. I think that means we have to introduce the new Collin and "say baby this is what your getting and where I'm going you can like it or leave it".
you/me/we need to decide what that guy is going to be like and stick to it. Obviously as you try new things some will work and some won't. Some DB coaches, form moderators, form participants will agree some won't.
Part of it will be changes you want to make to meet her needs in the long term. She will resist all of the changes and will throw up road blocks, test and bait you. That is where strength and the detachment is needed. When things go wrong you need to not let it bug you. Yes, its hard and I know we all struggle with that.
You can't turn on and off friendship. So maybe just introduce it slowly and/or pick certain times, topics, etc.
Yeah, because the last thing I want to do is give off any perception that I hate my wife. Because I don't. However, I'm not really a big fan of the person currently wearing my wife's clothes.
One thing (of many) that I am confused about is, I have read on other posts where they say the best course of action is to maintain a level of friendship with your W. Work on the friendship, then move forward.
Hmmmmm - do you have an example?
I would say "friendly" - yes.
"friends" - no.
Ultimately, will you be satisfied to be just friends with W?
Ultimately, will you be satisfied to be just friends with W?
It may sound selfish but, No, I wouldn't be. I'm not in this for a good friend. I'm in this for my wife/marriage.
During our marriage we never really gave each other gifts. Since mothers day is this weekend, should I do something completely against the grain and get her a small something? Or would that be one of those "grasping at straws/too little too late" things? Or should I get her some flowers and a card and get D to sign it?
During our marriage we never really gave each other gifts. Since mothers day is this weekend, should I do something completely against the grain and get her a small something? Or would that be one of those "grasping at straws/too little too late" things? Or should I get her some flowers and a card and get D to sign it?
Your daughter is 12. Ask her what she wants to do and help her.
Your Wife isnt your Mother. Getting her any of that stuff from you is definitely pursuit.
Typically flowers and a card from your D is what is suggested.
She wants her space from you so I would be cautious about giving gifts to someone that does not want you at this time.
May sound harsh but your W needs time.
I gave my WW jewelry for V day and she did not even wear them. One month later she is out with OM on a weekend trip to Florida.
I'm in agreement with the others. You assist your D with the gift she wants to give her mother. As much as it hurts - your W doesn't want any reminders of you right now.
Concentrate on your role as a father. Be the best dad you can. Your D needs strong loving parents now, more than ever. You can only control you, so be the dad that she deserves.
Good advise across the board. my 2 cents, support the kids, but don't nag them to do this for their mom, etc. A hands off approach would be best. That's what I'm doing this year. I made the mistake of giving simple V day gifts to my W. I left a gift bags on the table for her, D20 and the two dogs. The W ate the chocolates, did not open the card and did not say thanks etc.
So be a back up to the kids - but don't encourage, etc.
Well, we made it through Mothers day. We went to her mom's house and her family was there. All people I love dearly. Her family doesn't know anything that's going on. It was hard, because the whole time I was thinking "what if this is it?" Her cousin and his wife said they couldn't wait til Christmas when we get together to go buy a tree. I was thinking to myself, "wellllllll..."
One thing I did screw up on though. Tonight we were in the kitchen and got talking about a picture and how good it looks in the kitchen. I told her it was good for me, bad for her. She said she can make it look good in her kitchen too (referring to when she moves out). I said, you're right, it does look good in YOUR kitchen (since our kitchen in our house is hers). She made a comment, saying, "here we go..." I asked what she meant and she just said, I meant, here we go. She never would tell me what she meant. I admit though, I probably did beat the dead horse by asking her to explain to me what she meant the number of times I did. I just wanted her to know that no matter where she goes, this house, this kitchen, everything will always be ours. Maybe it was wrong of me to assume she would feel the same way...
Collin,
You feel like you screwed up. Figure out what you should do next time and then move on.
Also, take some time to think of 2 or 3 things you did well. I'm always recalling my mistakes and rarely to I think about my victories. It isn't healthy for me. I need to give myself more credit. Maybe you do too.
Her official move out date is the 24th. Here in NC that officially starts the countdown clock to 1 year before you can file for D. Obviously I don't want to get to that point. So the way I figure it is, I've got 15 days to not screw up.
So how should I handle the next two weeks? I know, no relationship talk, no planning ahead, no expectations of any sort. When she moves out, I'm going to have to help her get her internet and all that set up. I handle all that currently and she's pretty inept when it comes to that. So for the first few days there will have to be some interaction (not looking forward to it though). It's going to be hard leaving my W at her place while I go to our home and sleep in our bed alone.
Keep in mind though, that up until this point there's no assumption of an A. I don't think there has been and I don't think that's why she's doing this. I think she has just given up the will to fight for our M because of my spoiled, immature nature at first and then my emotional absence during the latter of our marriage. So wouldn't going dark further emphasize her point in that I don't care? I don't think that would be the correct approach. My point is to draw her closer not push her away. I want to hang out with her, go on dates (we never really dated during our M), enjoy each others company and work on our communication with each other.
After I get through the next couple weeks and once she moves out, what would be the correct way to get to the point to ask my wife out on a date?
I don't understand why you "have to set up her Internet"?
Do you think she's incapable? Maybe you should look at that about you.....?
She doesn't know how to do that stuff. Her knowledge of the internet begins and ends with Facebook. How she gets to facebook is beyond her understanding. She's good at connecting something is hooked up previously, she can disconnect it and reconnect it. But she can't hook something up from scratch. The cable co. is sending an DIY install kit. She needs me to hook it up. I had to call and get her internet set up for her. I don't know if that was laziness, she didn't know how to, or she just wanted me to play along with her. That part, I don't know.
But, if I were to tell her I wasn't going to hook it up, I promise you, you would hear her explode. Everything we have I have hooked up, installed and programmed. Our antenna, chromecast, netflix and media server. That is not her forte. She's more right brained, creative. I'm more left brained.
collin,
So the way I figure it is, I've got 15 days to not screw up.
When my wife and I stopped sleeping in the same room, she told me she wanted me to treat her like a roommate. I haven't had many roommates, but most of my roommates where acquaintances, not friends. I didn't understand exactly what she was telling me. What she was really saying was, "Be nice, be polite, have conversation and go do something together on occasion. No hugging, kissing and that other thing (I've forgotten what that is)."
To me the "roommate" thing was unacceptable; I wanted a wife, not a roommate. But, this morning she told me that if I'd done the roommate thing for a couple of months, then I'd have had a chance. I don't know if I should believe that, but I suspect there's truth to it.
So, that leads me to my point, ask your wife what she wants from you in the time that you have left. If you're uncertain what she wants, then ask her for specifics. Once she's told you what she wants, then do exactly that and be happy and don't let your emotions control your behavior.
She doesn't know how to do that stuff. Her knowledge of the internet begins and ends with Facebook. How she gets to facebook is beyond her understanding. She's good at connecting something is hooked up previously, she can disconnect it and reconnect it. But she can't hook something up from scratch. The cable co. is sending an DIY install kit. She needs me to hook it up. I had to call and get her internet set up for her. I don't know if that was laziness, she didn't know how to, or she just wanted me to play along with her. That part, I don't know.
But, if I were to tell her I wasn't going to hook it up, I promise you, you would hear her explode. Everything we have I have hooked up, installed and programmed. Our antenna, chromecast, netflix and media server. That is not her forte. She's more right brained, creative. I'm more left brained.
Yes. I'm sure she would be angry.
Will you ALWAYS be there to connect her internet? How about in three months if there's a problem. Are you now her on-call tech support?
Collin,
I'm just a guy that has a marriage in crisis like everyone else here. I have no expertise in this (obviously). What strikes me is "I've got 15 days to not screw up."
That is not a good way to think or act. This isn't about her and whether or not you have one last shot to make it work. This is about you taking an honest look at who you are and becoming a better you. This isn't about trying to be perfect for 15 days.
I also respectfully disagree with Doodler as far as asking her what she wants. That is pursuing. She has been very clear on what she wants - a divorce. That hurts, and you don't want to hear that, but that is the message she is sending.
If you are a friendly guy that likes hooking up computers and such and you'd like helping her get set up, then do it and be a genuinely friendly person while you do it and don't expect anything in return. No hugs, no relationship talk, no big thank you. If you feel taken advantage of and don't really want to help her in that way, then don't. Remember, she wants you to split up, so letting her fend for herself on this is not unreasonable at all. Again, if you decline to do this, be polite and respectful when you decline.
tjcran,
I actually think you're right that collin shouldn't view this as "one last shot" and that he should be working on himself. But, it sounds like he has a walkaway wife (WAW) and not a WW, and supposedly, the WAW requires a lighter touch.
My usual disclaimer applies, I don't know much about the DBing stuff.
tjcran,
I actually think you're right that collin shouldn't view this as "one last shot" and that he should be working on himself. But, it sounds like he has a walkaway wife (WAW) and not a WW, and supposedly, the WAW requires a lighter touch.
My usual disclaimer applies, I don't know much about the DBing stuff.
Doodler, it doesn't matter to me how much you do/don't know. I'm just thankful for any help I can get and thankful for the support.
I too have been under the impression that a WAW is a different situation than a WW. And is handled more delicately. A lot of the posts on here talk about going dark, I just feel like that would push her away in this situation. Instead of continuing to make her feel unloved and validated. I want her to feel loved. Thus the hooking up the internet and stuff like that. I have however put my foot down about helping her move her stuff.
To me the "roommate" thing was unacceptable; I wanted a wife, not a roommate. But, this morning she told me that if I'd done the roommate thing for a couple of months, then I'd have had a chance. I don't know if I should believe that, but I suspect there's truth to it.
Yeah, that's what I told her, it may be a self-serving POV, but I told her I'm not in this for a good friend. I'm going to spend every day for the next 6 months (length of her lease) to get her to come back home. Yes, I know that's setting expectations. But, that's my goal. Do what I've got to do to win my wife back. Because essentially that's what I've got to do. I've done everything to make her fall OUT of love with me. Now, I need to make her fall back IN love with me. She said she's got a lot of emotional baggage to overcome. It's true, she does. I've said/done some stuff I hate myself for. The MC said if I were to step on your toe and hurt you, we can't just move forward without first resolving the fact that I stepped on your toe and with empathy felt the pain that the stepping on the toe caused. Well, I've stepped on toes...
Collin, I'm torn on the internet issue.
My H talked about moving out. If he had, I can't see myself agreeing to assemble furniture for him. (That's our equivalent thing. I do all the assembling.)
Be a friend, yes. Friends don't hook up utilities. They listen to you vent about what a pain it is to hook up utilities.
Caveat--I'm new and still not sure my relationship is going to survive.
My H talked about moving out. If he had, I can't see myself agreeing to assemble furniture for him. (That's our equivalent thing. I do all the assembling.)
I've already helped her pick up her couch she bought from the store and take it to her storage unit. I don't want her to hurt herself though. I'd feel like a a-hole if she hurt herself doing something that I could've been helping her do but I was too busy throwing myself a pity party.
For mothers day she got (sort of from me, but from D) door alarms that beep when you open the door for her townhome, pepper spray and I'm going to let her take the stun gun. I just want to be sure she's safe which I won't be able to be sure of when she's not at home.
I wouldn't think of it as throwing yourself a pity party. Think of it as letting her experience life as a single person.
It seems to me you are already doing too much,
As it is now, she's going to experience the perks of singleness without the drawbacks. I can't see how that will go well for your M.
Collin 1
It reads like you think you can control her feelings through your actions. "If I connect her Internet, she will feel loved."
You can't control how she feels. Maybe she will think that you think she's incompetent (as you said in this thread multiple times). Maybe she will feel smothered. Or trapped. Who knows.
I think that you have a LOT of expectations. That if you act like ABC, she will respond like XYZ. Your focus is so squarely on her.
As I asked above, if she has a problem with the Internet her first night away, is she going to call you for tech support? What about after a week. Or a month. Or a year. If any of those are "no" then why are you doing it now?
So, I had a realization this morning. I need to do a better job of standing up for myself. This morning we were getting ready for work. She couldn't find a pair of her pants. (I do our laundry together.) Well she goes in saying, I need my pants. You always loose my *stuff* when you do laundry, blah blah blah. Hindsight being 20/20 I should've said something like "I would be more than happy to help you, but I will not be disrespected".
But, I just know that when she gets in one of her "moods" if I say something like that it will make a bad situation even worse. She's like that, there's no talking her back off the cliff. But she needs to know I will not stand for it. Not really sure what to do.
How about stop doing her laundry? How will she react to that?
So my advice above is probably not the best but it was my first thought. Perhaps you should say something more like:
I understand your frustration but I did not lose your pants on purpose. I do your laundry to be helpful. If you would like my help in finding your pants please just ask.
Trg,
Trust me I've thought about it several times. But going through the hassle of separating hers and mine and washing mine, then waiting on her to wash hers before I can wash mine is entirely too much of a pain. Plus the reason why I started doing laundry originally was because she would do laundry the night before with was she was going to wear tomorrow. Neither me, my water bill or my septic tank were happy with that. So, I took over laundry.
I hate to say it but if she leaves you'll be doing laundry separately anyway. Perhaps that can be a bit of a wakeup call. W and I have done ours separately for more than 15 years. If her stuff is in the machine when I do mine, I just move it. No big deal. She knows I do my wash on Saturday mornings and does her's whenever (You know I'm not really sure ...)
Mind you, I'm also the guy who loves doing the ironing. Nothing like a row of crisp shirts hanging to air to make a man feel like he's accomplished something important.
13 more days. she's starting to pile up boxes and belongings in the living room. above the pile is a picture of our wedding day. the dichotomy of it is suffocating.
i know this is what she wants. or what she feels like she has to do. but, i was thinking the other day, she signed a 6 month lease and if she stays through the 6 months, that will include both of our birthdays, our anniversary and will be right at thanksgiving. i know i shouldn't worry about the future only take it one day at a time. but, it's hard not to.
legally, in the state of nc, you have to be separated for 12 months before you can file for divorce. so if the 6 month lease, turns into 12, then this time next year, i could potentially be divorced.
Collin,
We all struggle with these issues. It isn't easy and lots of what is happening doesn't make much sense at times. Have you read about detaching? It is difficult to do as well, but it may help you cope.
You can't take care of her. She doesn't really want you to and every time you think of her needs and take care of her needs it is at the expense of your own well being. Start putting your well being first. You need to take care of you.
She is a grown woman and can find her own pair of pants. Be polite and tell her that she may have to look a little harder to find them. If she talks to you disrespectfully, politely respond that you don't like being talked to that way and you will not engage in conversation until she speaks to you respectfully. If she continues, say nothing and calmly walk away.
Sometimes the jokes just write themselves. I was sitting in the living room when the dogs started going crazy. Then all of a sudden a bat was flying around IN MY HOUSE!!! Well the smart butt side of me could make a correlation between a bat and a witch. But i won't.
So, aside from the bat fiasco last night. We're still counting down the days. Now at 12. The thing I don't understand is, she went to the store yesterday to get her some clothes and bought me a pair of jeans. Last night she was talking about a deodorant she is going to get for me. I'm grateful that she is thinking about me, but still at the same time in the back of my mind I'm like, PLEASE STOP!!! Obviously she doesn't know about detaching.
so tonight she brought home dinner without me asking. she asks my input on new clothes she bought. i don't understand what is going on...
"i don't understand what is going on..."
Why do you keep feeling that you need to? Stop analyzing everything that she does and says.
Why do you keep feeling that you need to? Stop analyzing everything that she does and says.
Well, I guess it goes to show that you can't hide who you are. I've been told I over analyze things too much.
11 more days. Tomorrow she has an adoption event with the dog rescue group she volunteers with. She asked me if wanted to go. Typically I would go. But this time, I told her I had stuff to do around the house. I need to clean the gutters and mow the yard anyways. I think this will be the first time I haven't been with her.
We used to email each other back and forth at work. We hadn't done that for a couple weeks now. I have outlook set so when she emails it flashes. Occasionally I catch myself looking at the icon expecting, wanting, hoping it to flash. I had all of our emails saved in folder, I went through and deleted them yesterday.
It gets better. My WW use to text and call me from work daily. That stopped 6 months ago. She also would call and text me after the BD. That last a few weeks.. Time flys, things get easier. Work on you, stay busy, stay thinking of other things.
11 days is a drop in the bucket.
Living together or apart, you have all the time you need. You werent living together when you originally got together, right?
Just keep looking inward.
10 days to go. She's starting to pack up. I walk around the house and see my life being stuffed into boxes. Last night she was packing up the living room when I was wanting to go to bed. I was kind of agitated watching her pack so I said "I know you're in a hurry to leave but can this wait until the morning?"
She said "if i was in a hurry I wouldn't of waited this long"
In order to avoid any unneeded relationship talk and prevent me from pursuing, I walked out of the living room. But I don't understand. Is she second guessing?
I guess that's me trying to overanalyze her again. I need to go do yard work. So at least that will get me out of the house surrounded by my slowly disappearing life.
collin,
I doubt she's second guessing; she's put off moving out because its big step for her to take and its scary, but now she's ready.
Part of DBing is to do the unexpected. She expects you to try to delay her move. Don't do that (it's pursuing). Help her toward her goal. I bought my wife a bunch of boxes and packing material when she was moving out. It was a kind-and-gentle little push out the door. Show her that you'll be just fine (or maybe better) after she moves out.
i know i should be out GAL. But, the thing is, i have no desire too. all i really feel like doing is sitting here. i feel defeated and motivation-less. i just don't know how to get over this mental hurdle.
i've thought about joining the triangle divorce/separation group on meetup. but the thought of going to an unknown place and having to introduce myself to a group of unknown people, gives me hives.
collin,
I want to ask you, no, I want to strongly encourage you to go GAL. Right now it is very important that you do what is right, not what you feel. Your feeling will guide you down a path that has no benefit to you, nor any hope of a good future relationship.
Think about it this way. You have been in an accident that has left you with legs that are almost paralyzed. The doctor tells you that with physical therapy and a lot of hard work, that you may regain the use of your legs. What will you do?
You do what it takes to walk again even if you do not feel like it.
So please get up, take one step and GAL.
It really is the only thing you. An do right now. It won't be easy, it will make you uncomfortable, but the more you do it the stronger you will get.
Trust me, I speak from experience and know that it is the best way to proceed.
I send you my support and pray for you so please put in the effort and you will thank yourself later.
Thanks for the support sadhub. I know I need to GAL and go against the grain. She sure is carrying on with her life. She came to the house yesterday afternoon and said her and a group of friends from the rescue she's helping out with were going out. She left yesterday afternoon and I didn't hear anything all night. I stayed up until about 1am for her to make sure she made it back safe. Typically I would text her or call her. But I know that part of detaching is letting her do her thing. I didn't sleep worth a dern last night. Everytime I woke up she wasn't there. Finally when I was getting ready for church she texted:
Sorry meant to text you last night and tell you I wasn't coming home but I passed out sitting up.
I didn't text back. I didn't have anything to say what wouldn't be condescending. Return from church and she's still not there. She's got to come to the house some time. I don't know what I'm going to say. I really have nothing nice to say. She wants to take some of our dogs with her when she moves out. I don't know if I trust her to take care of them.
Anyways, 9 more days until reality hits her. In 9 days there won't be any going out all night and staying gone all day. I think this is the first day where I've been angry. I guess anger is part of the process. Only one of many emotions to experience as part of this process.
i don't know what to do, she texted asking me if I wanted to go to the hospital to visit someone.
me - no thanks
her - you don't want to see [this person]
i didn't reply right away...then
her - if you're mad at me that's fine, you've been an a--hole lately anyway...but despite all the f---ed sh-t you've done or do i try to do for you. so sit over there in self pity.
me - i'm sorry you feel i've been an a--hole. i've tried to be cordial to you. i am thankful for what you do.
her - OK.
I admit, i have been quiet around her. but i don't necessarily think i've been an a--hole. i don't know what to say or do anymore...
so without me responding to the above mentioned texts, she texted back and said -
alright my migraines finally gone, i'm getting in the shower. you sure you don't want to go?
i know my W. and i know that if i want ANY possible chance at reconciliation at all i should probably tone down my standoffish attitude.
so, i'm going to go and i'm going to be jolly freaking sunshine. try and make her see who/what she's giving up by walking away. it's that whole thing with words vs. actions right? dang this is going to be hard. i really want to drill her with: where have you been? what have you been doing? who were you with? but for now, this isn't the time/place. i am the LBH. i need to realize i'm not the H. not now.
Thank goodness today is mercifully over. I've cycled back and forth between anger and sadness all day. I don't want to have many more days like this. I hope that when she is gone the days will be better. Because her being here is hell emotionally.
At least when she's not here I'll have an objective. GET MY WIFE BACK. Right now she's gone mentally. Here physically. But in her mind she's not here. There's nothing I can do now but pray.
At least when she's not here I'll have an objective.
Im having trouble understanding this.
Why dont you have objectives now? Thats like chapter 2 of the book.
I think it may be good to read (re-read?) and start setting some goals for yourself.
Collin. I'm sorry about the emotional day. But I agree with darkness. Set some goals starting now. In my opinion it will help you. Emotions are hard to deal with and control. One moment at a time. Remember Stop Breathe Pray
Hey Collin, my W does the same thing. She blows everything out of proportion. If I'm happy, I'm suddenly skipping around and making her angrier by being so bubbly...I'm far from bubbly. It's her messed up perception, it's got nothing to do with me or with reality. Don't feel like you have to defend yourself or your actions. Just do you, get some goals and work towards them brother.
Well, looks like my first goal should be BUY THE BOOK. But, doing so right now without her knowing would be nearly impossible.
But, in the meantime could you please help me understand? Like, my goal for next month is to run a 10k. But, that's not anything to do with her, that's just something I want to do, for me.
If I had to say my goal as far as my R would be to get my emotions (anger/sadness) in check. Right now I'm a wreck. I can't work on repairing my marriage in the mental state i'm in now. Got to work on me first, then her.
Am I on the right path as far as setting goals? Any help is appreciated.
When you say this, what do you mean? You have the right mindset, I think. The key is now to document what you mean so that you can actually do the work.
Typically, goals revolve around becoming the person you want to be. You mentioned a 10k. Thats great. For example, you could set an overall goal of being healthier. Then break it down into manageable, measurable things.
Be healthierBy the end of June, I want to:
- Eat an average of xxxx calories per day
- Work out for xxx minutes xxx times per week
- Complete xxx athletic events
- Go out to eat no more than xxx times per week
- Spend xxx amount of time outside per day
and so on....
Then you make these kinds of lists in other areas as well. Lifestyle, finance, family, pets, job, etc, etc. You can also make these kinds of things about how you act:
You mentioned sadness.....so....
Be happierBy the end of June, I will:
- Write a different thing each day that I am happy for
- Smile to three different people each day
- Laugh at least once each day
- Go to one GAL event that is brand new to me
- Go to two GAL events with current friends
and so on.
You cant inherently just "work on you." You have to hold yourself accountable and actually do it.
Wow. Darknes, has wonderful advice. I too was thinking the same thing. "work on me" , but what does that mean. Thanks for more specifics. it will be hard, but this site has wonderful support and its safe!
So, instead of saying: work on my relationship with my D. It should be more like:
-watch what my D wants to watch on TV (with my D) X number of nights a week.
-find fun activities for D and I to do together (and do them).
-Help her to be more organized.
-Help her be more self-sufficient.
So, instead of saying I am going to (this) it will be I am going to do (this) and the following steps are going to be how I am going to accomplish it.
Am I thinking about it correct?
So, instead of saying: work on my relationship with my D. It should be more like:
-watch what my D wants to watch on TV (with my D) X number of nights a week.
-find fun activities for D and I to do together (and do them).
-Help her to be more organized.
-Help her be more self-sufficient.
So, instead of saying I am going to (this) it will be I am going to do (this) and the following steps are going to be how I am going to accomplish it.
Am I thinking about it correct?
Kind of. But break it down into things you can measure. You want specific, measurable things. So that you can look bakc and say "yes, I did that."
So like these are good:
-watch what my D wants to watch on TV (with my D) X number of nights a week.
-find fun activities for D and I to do together (and do them).
But these:
-Help her to be more organized.
-Help her be more self-sufficient.
I'd be more specific as to how you will accomplish them.
I created the webpage for the dog rescue she volunteers with. I told her I would keep the page up to date, but the past week I've been slacking. She emailed today and said:
Since you are obviously not going to keep up with the website will you PLEASE sit down and show me how to update it tonight?!
I replied back with:
Oh crap. You wanted me to add that one dog. Yeah, we’ll sit down and look at it tonight. So at least you’ll know how to do it.
She replied back with:
Not just that, there are a lot of other things. You just are absent minded and don’t ever do what you say you will do. There are many things on there that need to be done.
_______________________
So yeah, sufficient to say, I'm not doing too good of a job holding up my end of the deal, especially in the words vs. actions department. But, I guess I could look at this as a goal right? To update the website at least once a week.
Yeah, it's not really doing it for me, but it indirectly is. I need to show her I will say I'll do something and stick to it. So...in a sense it kind of is for me...
I need to show her I will say I'll do something and stick to it.
There. Fixed it for you.
THATS improving you.
So, what kinds of things are you going to do as a way of meeting that improvement point?
Thanks darknes.
I need lots of fixing (as you probably can tell)
Today has been a very productive day on here, I feel like I've learned and grew a lot.
So, I'v got another question:
I went to MC once myself and once with her (well she showed up half way). The thing is MC is another one of those things where I say I'm going to do it and then I got side tracked and let the days get away from me. Then 1 week into 2, 3, so on. She even said something about it and all I could do was agree and eat crow.
She said a while back that she would agree to go to MC if she moved out. So, her going while still living at home was great! I told her I was wanting to work on me so I would go by myself until she was ready. I didn't hold up my end of the deal.
I asked her last week if she wanted to go this week, she said this week wasn't good (financially). I'm thinking of playing dumb and saying to her, I'm considering going to MC either this week or next, would you like to join? Or, Should I say, i know you said this week wouldn't be good to go to MC, would you consider going next? Or I know you said this week isn't good, I would like to schedule a day for next, would you like to join?
And, is MC beneficial by yourself?
"Well, I guess it goes to show that you can't hide who you are. "
That's BS. If you didn't think you could change, you wouldn't be here. Everyone on this site has changed in one way or another. You just have to CHOOSE to change.
Thanks darknes.
I went to MC once myself and once with her (well she showed up half way). The thing is MC is another one of those things where I say I'm going to do it and then I got side tracked and let the days get away from me. Then 1 week into 2, 3, so on. She even said something about it and all I could do was agree and eat crow.
I asked her last week if she wanted to go this week, she said this week wasn't good (financially). I'm thinking of playing dumb and saying to her, I'm considering going to MC either this week or next, would you like to join? Or, Should I say, i know you said this week wouldn't be good to go to MC, would you consider going next? Or I know you said this week isn't good, I would like to schedule a day for next, would you like to join?
And, is MC beneficial by yourself?
A few things...
I am guilty of the exact same situation you are in. We would get into it about something, and the topic of MC would come up and I'd say, yeah, we should go to MC, lets set something up.. and I would never take the initiative, and she (likely) would sit back and just wait to see if I would ever do it... and by the time we went through this cycle 3-4 times, we finally went to one MC session together, and she refused to go back since, and she's likely filing for D in the next few days/weeks (if I'm lucky).
she mentioned in MC and in her personal therapy session that if I really cared about fixing our MR, then I wouldn't have waited for her to leave me before finally wanting to work on changing things...and now it's too late. I'm still fighting though.
about your question. I don't understand, the money situation, our MC was the same amount whether one person attended or both people attended. So if you are going for you, you pay for 1 hour. If your W wants to come, you still just pay for 1 hour. If you are already paying, I would go ahead and go and tell her your going, and that she's welcome to join. If she does, great, if not, I'd schedule for the next week to. I realize money isn't limitless, but D is can be very expensive, and if you spend it on this, at least you can walk away knowing that you did everything you could, while you could, to try and put it to something useful in saving the MR.
As for, is it helpful if you're alone... I guess it depends on what your goals are. MC (properly trained ones), are not individual psychotherapists that are trained to pick about inidividuals flaws and qualities, but a well-trained family and marital therapist are trained in identifying problems within a SYSTEM of a marriage, group, family, etc. It's actually called systems theory, something most therapists never learn in regular education without going out of their way...
If you're goal is to help you identify you faults and failures in a SYSTEM environment, and better yourself for the future, regardless if it's for this marriage, or the next, or even at work, then yes. MC can be very beneficial for a single individual. However, a lot of MC therapists out there will not continue to see one individual continually, and then see the other one here and there. You won't allow talk about individual therapy matters (you're psycho/mental issues), and see you as a MC therapist as a couple, because of favoritism, taking sides, etc.
What I've done is, since my wife has refused to see our MC with me, I've hired a second MC, and told the first one, that if my wife ever wants to join back in, I'll come back to them. But until then, I'm going to the second MC for my individual work within a marriage or system environment. This created a barrier so that the refusing spouse doesn't feel teamed up on when/if they ever do decide to come back to MC therapy.
Sorry if that's a lot, but that's exactly what I'm doing, and that's what I was told to do by several resources I looked into regarding the situation. Hope it's helpful.
So I wanted to do a quick update prior to bed. It's past midnight here in NC and my W is in the kitchen packing boxes. Not all is lost though. Her move out date is next Tues. She agreed to go to a 2hr MC session the following week. I am chalking that down as a small win. Going to bed. Goodnight.
1 week until her move out day.
Last night we (me, her and D) went out to dinner, it was fun. We didn't talk about our R and I tried to put it in the back of my mind and just enjoy the moment.
When we got home she started packing her stuff. I asked her about MC and that's when we started talking about it and decided that the best time would be the following week. It was hard watching her pack, but I guess it's inevitably going to happen, just something I've got to get over.
She did say something about me not updating the website like I said I would. I agreed that I was very lax last week on it and I told her I would devote this evening to working/updating the website. Really hit me in the face when she said, it's sad when you expect it to happen. It is. I dropped the ball on this one. But, it's more than just a website. Our whole marriage I have talked about all the things I was going to do. When it came time I excused them away. Going to work on that.
collin,
Since your wife is moving out, this might be a good opportunity to do a 180. You could help her pack some stuff and help her move some stuff. Don't do it in such a way that it seems like you're throwing her out the door, but show her that you've accepted what she's doing and that you're not clinging and trying to change her mind.
Just a thought...
She did say something about me not updating the website like I said I would. I agreed that I was very lax last week on it and I told her I would devote this evening to working/updating the website. Really hit me in the face when she said, it's sad when you expect it to happen. It is. I dropped the ball on this one. But, it's more than just a website. Our whole marriage I have talked about all the things I was going to do. When it came time I excused them away. Going to work on that.
Let's think about this.
WHY do you say you are going to do things?
And then WHY do you not do them?
I think on the one hand, you may want to look into why you have trouble following through.
But this also reads like you agreeing to do things or saying youre sorry or something, just to end a discussion or to get some approval from her or to appease her...I dont know. I dont really understand why you would agree to update her website. Or some of the other things youve agreed to help with.
Honestly, I think it's because I do have plans to do these things, but then I get lazy. But, I'm pretty sure that her (and the good Lord) are testing me.
She emailed saying:
Hey are you gonna work on my pallet dog bed or is that another one of those things youll never do?
I replied with:
I’m going to do it. I know I’ve been slack in the past. But you had faith in me to do it. I’m going to stop letting you down.
________________________
Essentially, I just went all in. If I mess this up she'll lose all faith in me forever. Given my track record it was probably a dumb thing to do. But dangit, I'm 180-ing, setting Goals and GAL (even if my life is going to consist of building a dog bed... at least it'll help get my mind off of her...and hey, i enjoy building stuff)
Collin, what darknes is asking, is why have you always let her down? In other words, why do you let yourself down and not keep your word?
Look inside and not at what she's saying and don't do things for her, do them for yourself.
Collin, what darknes is asking, is why have you always let her down? In other words, why do you let yourself down and not keep your word?
Look inside and not at what she's saying and don't do things for her, do them for yourself.
These are all valid points. You might need to look inside yourself and figure out the underlying issue that causes you to act this way. I struggled with this one too, and I'm in no way saying this is your answer, but with help from therapists, and counseling, a likely cause for my issue was locked away in my subconsciousness. For years, she would reject the work I did, reject my accomplishments that I worked so hard on, and complain about the way I do things, when in my eyes they were done to perfection. This starts to take a toll on people, and they lose confidence, self-awareness, and start looking in other directions to place their blame. In my case, this is something that I didn't know she was doing, and she probably didn't even know she was doing, but over time, it built up, and built up, and eventually I was drained of what I once thought of myself, as a fully capable, independent, go-getter.
Your case may be different; a lot of the problems we carry over into our adult relationships were actually formed in our childhood. It can be hard to think back of things that could cause this sort of behavior, but practicing replaying childhood memories, teenage memories, adult memories, out loud, can sometimes shine a light on what the underlying causes are.
Hi Collin,
You have been getting a lot of good advice and I would add that this separation may be a good time for you to clean the house and put it all in order (meaning your life).
I got caught up with your thread and it always repeat that she asked you to do this or that. First, it is not the right way to test someone to their limits. She tells you she is leaving and then she wants you to be all motivated to do things for her.
I am a girl and I really think she is playing a very dirty game with you. Of course you did a lot of wrongs during your marriage and maybe because of that she got tired of being married to a guy that did not fix her stuff.
But by other hand, was this woman so perfect that she can only blame your behavior? As far as I know you work, maybe all day. So, it's not like you are sitting around doing zero all day. I did a lot of stuff in my house and I am not a guy.
Being understanding, compassionate and really caring, does not mean you need to please her every time she ask you to make something. Next thing we know, she spits on the floor and will ask you to clean it, in the speed that she thinks is good enough for her.
Collin, take your time and find yourself, find what you like, what is good for you, what you enjoy doing. Not everyone is born to be a fixer upper. If you find good stuff then keep them, if you find you need to improve on some things, then set a path to do it, with a therapist, counselor, or whatever.
I also see you may need to set your faith straight. People with real faith and God inside themselves do not need to please everyone else. They are good just because, they do good because it makes them whole and makes them feel good about themselves.
Reading your posts I feel and think that what she is asking is for your maturity. The laziness may be a sign that you may need to do some serious work on you and then you will love yourself so much that it will be hard for others not to.
Take you time sweetie. Be yourself or find yourself. Help yourself to be in one piece again.
If you still want to fix something for her, then tell her honestly that you are trying to make sense of all this, get your life moving, hold yourself in one piece and you won't get to it until "whatever - a week or so", this will put you in a position of no failure again. You will give yourself time to resolve the issue. If she does not like, well then you can say she can do that herself because you are facing your own challenges now.
I know it [censored], but it will also undermine her desire to make you feel like you are always failing. There are something called "Respect" and I think she is lacking some towards you right now.
Hope you will decide to start helping yourself instead of pleasing someone that does not want to be pleased.
Pink
Today has been an awesome day. If we do reconcile I'll be able to look back to this day as the date that put it all in motion. It's amazing that if you (meaning me) just shut up and listen all your questions will be answered. Why is she leaving? What was I not doing? Well the answer is now apparent. She wants dependability. I wasn't providing that. I want to be the kind of man that if I say I'm going to do something then that thing is as good as done.
Today was a day of many answers. With hopefully more to come. Cadet's first welcome post says she gave you the gift of time. I am going to use this time wisely to better myself as a husband, a father and a man.
Well this is really the order, better man, better father, and if she wants you back, then only a better husband.
Today has been an awesome day. If we do reconcile I'll be able to look back to this day as the date that put it all in motion. It's amazing that if you (meaning me) just shut up and listen all your questions will be answered. Why is she leaving? What was I not doing? Well the answer is now apparent. She wants dependability. I wasn't providing that. I want to be the kind of man that if I say I'm going to do something then that thing is as good as done.
Today was a day of many answers. With hopefully more to come. Cadet's first welcome post says she gave you the gift of time. I am going to use this time wisely to better myself as a husband, a father and a man.
Wow, you go dude! This attitude is something I'm striving for and I hope you can continue your positivity throughout this. It's easy to teeter back and forth (my experience anyways), but keep the path, find ways to improve, and she'll be the foolish one to leave if you really set out to do this.
Hi Collin,
So happy that in the midst of so much pain you are finding ways to look inside yourself, figuring out what direction to take and set goal to improve in a way you will love the outcome and your W may regain that faith she lost.
Life is not easy at all and we all have room for improvement. I hope you take the time to find the way to improve yourself and make your life better with your W or without her.
My humble advice is that you take a little step at a time so you don't set too many or too big of goals and then get disappointed or demotivated.
Wish you all the best and please keep posting, you have a lot of good friends here.
Hugs,
Pink
Thanks Pink,
The past couple days have probably been the most positive I've been in this whole fiasco. For the longest time I just felt lost and alone. Now, thanks to this forum, I feel motivated and I feel like I do have a group of people supporting me. That is such a good feeling to have. I mean, I don't want my W to move out, but she is. Nothing I can do about it, next Tuesday she's gone. But, what I can do is work on me and like everyone on here says (and now seems all so clear) make me be the be me I can be. Be the kind of person she will want to be married to. Not for though, but for me, because it's what I want to be.
We have set a 2 hour MC session on June 7 between 6-8pm. I know it's a long ways off, but with our work schedules it's the soonest we could do. So, I'm considering that another positive thing and something I am grateful for. If you remember, please during that time say a quick prayer/thought for us and hope things go well.
Thanks again everyone for all the help and support. Inevitably down the road I'm going to crash. Like next tuesday when I go home and she won't be coming home from work. But thanks to all the people on here for your advice, motivation and encouragement, I know that all is not lost and I'll make it. One way or another, I'll make it.
Collin,
I agree with Pink on her last two posts. My W said the same things, wants me to do more around the house all while working 14 hour days. Wanted me to be present more in my family's life, well I cut back on hours and started to do more around the house and then one silly argument sent my family spiraling to a D.
Just want to reiterate Pink's advice and take baby steps.
I am not trying to discourage you. I just want to share my experience for what it is worth.