At least that's how I feel.
I know that there are lots of these stories and mine is probably similar to many others but I need to tell it anyway. I found this site late last week and have spent (many) hours reading posts especially those by Sandi who deserves a saint-hood for all the help and support she has given everyone. I'll use abbreviations when I can remember them and hopefully won't get them wrong. I don't know what advice there will be that hasn't already been provided to others for which I am grateful to have been able to read. I just checked and sorry for the really long post.
For a bit of a back-story. My wife and I of 27 years had what I thought was a loving, stable marriage sliding gracefully into our middle age. For those of you that know anything about the Meyers Briggs personality tests, I'm an INTJ and she is an ENFP - presumably ideal matches. To translate, I'm a quite, stand-offish introvert and she's a bubbly charming extrovert. It's largely worked well. She gets me out and about and I've kept her grounded. We live in a small town where everybody knows everybody and everyone's business.
She started peri-menopause a few years ago and started seeming depressed. I have always tried to be positive and supportive to her but ramped up my efforts because I had read and believed that her depression could be combated by positivity.
I have a few bad habits - namely one of sitting and drinking beer on a weekend afternoon - fairly regularly getting a bit drunk. I've been fighting my own depression for a number of reasons and perhaps was a rather grey person to be around.
I think I fit almost perfectly the description in other posts of the "nice guy" who has codependency issues. Over the last few years I think my concern for her happiness and focus on whatever she wanted to do was getting smothering.
Without boring everyone with the storyline, in July of last year she decided to become a WAW because she was unhappy with me. She never told me that, never told me that she was unhappy with our marriage, never tried to let me know what it was that she was unhappy with. At the start of last month while we were away in Mexico on vacation she got drunk one night the day before we were checking out and told me that she was leaving and that there was nothing I could do about. She refused to tell me why. The next morning she didn't say anything and I waited until we got back home to ask her if it was true. It was - my world shattered.
Suffice it to say over the next few weeks my life was hell. I wish I'd found this site at that time. I did almost everything wrong. I pursued, begged, there were quite a few tears from both of us but she refused to tell me why she was leaving. She did say that she does still love me and I believe her.
In desperation afer a month I invaded her privacy and discovered the existance of the OM. He was someone I had previously worried was being too attentive to my W and I had actually warned her (before the A) that his motives were not to be trusted. He lives some way away so they've able to be somewhat discreet. I confronted (rather calmly) my W who admitted to the PA and said that she was not intending to stop. She also told me that it was something that she was ashamed of because she had always made a point of mentioning how faithful she was despite most of her family having been unfaithful to their spouses at one time or another (and another in some cases). She said that the A was not something she intended but was accidental. I told her that I would not be the first to take off my ring and that I would fight to save our marriage but that if she absolutely had to leave that I would not stop her. I believe the only time I raised my voice was to ask "Why the H### are you still here? - to no answer. I also held her close (she was willing) and swore that if forgiveness was asked for that forgiveness could be found. Separate beds started that night.
The next night I had her sit down and we laid out some ground rules. No carrying on the A in our house and I would stop snooping. I told her that the OM was none of my concern and that I would stay away from him. She mentioned that she had already seen a lawyer. I did also say again that while I wouldn't do anything stupid that I felt that I had a right to talk to her friends that she had already told about this. I presume it was a bad idea but I sent her a message in the middle of the night saying that our bed missed her (no response). I was able to send a message to one of her more level-headed friends that I was very concerned about her and that I had discovered the A and intended to win her back but that I would let her go if that was what she truly wanted to do. My snooping also revealed that she had told a number of her girl-friends at a party after we got back from holiday about the A and that a number of them were quite disgusted. Her closest friends have banded together around her and are supporting her having fun with the OM and getting away from me.
One thing that she said that rang true with me was that she couldn't be responsible for my happiness. I decided that night to try to build the "me" that used to exist. That morning I was working from my home office so skipped out and got a haircut removing my long hair (it had been bothering me anyway). I then bought a small bouquet of flowers that were the same as what I always gave her when we were first together. I told her that I was trying to find the "ME" that I used to be and that this was part of it. I had also decided that I needed to stop drinking so much at home and that I would stop the regular beer consumption.
Fortunately I now got a bit of a break I think. She had already committed to go to a youth camp for several days which would separate us. I did send her some texts to let her know that everything at the house was fine with love messages on the bottom along with some emails and Facebook Messenger posts with things I'd started discovering while reading. I then realized that bombarding her with research to change her mind was probably the wrongest thing I could do. So I sent her another message (redundant I know) appologizing for pestering her while she probably was hurting as much as me and saying that I would give her space for the next week or so.
It was around then that I found the DB forums which I think will save my marriage or at least my sanity. When she stopped by on Saturday to drop off her camp stuff and go to a family funeral that she was combining with a family visit I sat and listened to her tell me about camp and then buggered off and left her alone. While she was gone I didn't send any texts or messages and worked hard on my own GAL strategy. I had told her before she left that I was making a roast for Sunday supper and that she was welcome to join me and that I would be eating at 7:30. At 6:00 she texted me that she was 1 hour away from home to which I relied with just "K". Dinner was friendly and she seemed thoughtful. She mentioned that she didn't stay with her sister since she was sick but didn't say where she did stay. I didn't ask or even appear to take notice. She didn't notice (I presume) that I hadn't had a drink for a week as that's not something I intend to advertise. It's for me (thanks Sandi). Since I buy my beer at her store it might be noticed there since it's an unusal brand that they bring in for me that is still sitting on the shelf and will stay there. Because of that and the stress I've not been able to eat much and have dropped 10 lbs since the last time she saw me - again which she hasn't had a chance to notice.
So - I'm working hard on the GAL strategy, giving her space (which helps fulful most of the "rules" without notice) and waiting and hoping. She has another lawyer appointment this week and I have my first one with a counselor. I'd asked her to go to counseling before the discovery and she's always refused - perhaps because of the chance of discovery of the A. I've suggested some irreversable actions that would ease her ability to leave like canceling my life insurance (intended to support her) and she's been horrified. I don't think she's committed to leaving and was mainly doing it because of the shame of the A.
In the mean-time I'm keeping her secret even though I want to scream my pain from the roof-tops. Revealing it would hurt her quite badly in our small town and I believe destroy her relationship with our children. I've only told two friends outside our community which has been a great help because it burns inside me to keep it quiet.
Keep me in your prayers and thank you all for listening.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hi Andrew,
sorry you're here. Glad you've already gotten the DB/DR thing going, and have done your homework ahead of time. I wish I had found this place at the beginning of my "process".
You already know you're in for a roller coaster ride. There's a point where you need to snoop to validate what you suspect. Then - you cut it off. No reason to learn specifics, you're already in enough pain. But it looks like you've already figured that out.
Detach as much and as quickly as you can. Validate (I stink at that still), set boundaries and go dark when possible. It sounds like you're probably going to want to find your own L as well, you don't want them getting a head start on you. If possible, talk to a DB coach here as well for specific techniques. Please keep posting, the vets will be along with some real suggestions soon enough.
Thanks. The only L easily available in our area also do things like real estate etc and that is who she has gone to. There's a group of them that work together to try to smooth the process of D which I think is probably pretty humane.
However, despite the "nice guy" thing I have to protect myself. While I hope she stays my plan is to hold off getting a L until pushed and then to listen to her's to find out what the score is. If it's acceptable then we'll go the smooth and easy route. But I'm not going to roll over and want to be able to pick the right L for what may come. I have very definitely not mentioned that this is in my thoughts as it would harden her and I hope it never comes to that.
Detaching is going to be very hard and that's one of the reasons I've opened a profile and posted for when I feel weak. I'm building plans as part of my GAL to start going out to community events on my own every chance I can get. Many of those are ones that we would go together in years past but didn't any more. I'm also going to continue making myself into the "ME" that I want to be whether I go forward with her or alone.
It still hurts though.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I've checked and it's available at a local bookstore. I'll see about picking it up after work.
Andrew,
Once your WW retains an L, that L cannot ethically represent both sides, as it would be a conflict of interest. If you have more than a trivial amount of assets, you should start interviewing L's, even from outside your area. I interviewed 4 before I hired my current L. Since your kids are adults, it makes it simpler since that eliminates custody issues. But if she is going to be nasty or greedy then you need to protect yourself for sure. The process of D tends to bring out the nastiness and greed in people. My WW told me on BD day that she didn't want any of "my money," she just wanted to be "free." That all changed when she got an L.
CWOL - No there's a group of L in our area from different practices that work together to make things smoother. She was suggesting another L from a different firm that's part of the same association. Not that I'll take my WW's suggestion on what L to use without serious thought. Just as you did I'll probably interview several before deciding.
Perhaps I'm wrong but the L was after she told me she was leaving but before I found out about the A when I told her that the A wasn't the deal-breaker she assumed it would be.
I'm seeing a therapist this week and am hoping to persuade her to try that route first now that things are out in the open. Once the sharks are unleashed and start circling I'm afraid that there is no chance of heading this off without going all the way down that path. I think I have time. A few months at least. She's been delaying doing anything for months and I think she's pretty scared right now of what has been started. I wish I could do the "make it all better" thing that the old me would try but that's not who the new me needs to be.
Hello AndrewP,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
Persuading her to try and do anything at this point isn't in your best interest. Persuading is the same as pursuing, which doesn't help (no need to unleash any sharks either).
1313- Thanks for the vote of confidence regarding the DB Coaching!
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Cristy - thank you for your kind words and the reminder about not pursuing. I had forwarded her an email last week from our insurance company that confirmed we have coverage for counseling so that will have to do to let her know that door is open.
I think my best plan right now is to walk my own path while she walks hers and to give her the time she needs to find her own heart. I have a local therapist who I will be seeing Thursday and hope that she can help me rebuild my life regardless of whether I walk alone or not.
Well - this morning was a bit tough but I think a good one. When my W got up from her separate room I said good morning - without the usual endearments. Over the short time we sat together at breakfast we talked about the usual sort of things that organize people's days. She asked about a new job that I was just about to get (passed the second interview and was just waiting for the offer to be finalized) and looked rather shocked when I said that I backed out because I had more important things to deal with.
She has always asked me to tell her that I loved her and give her a hug when I leave for work. We would always tell each other when we would be back home. This morning I quietly went out on my own and as I was starting my car I saw that she had come downstairs and was staring at me out the door.
I'm starting to feel a bit better. I'm working on GAL and giving her space to do the same. I was thinking this morning as I was driving in that in some ways there is an analogy in my life to this process. As a hobby I used to build small sailboats and I also do some handy-man type carpentry. I would always joke with her that the hardest part of any job for me was waiting and letting the glue dry.
Time for an update I think. It's been a rough week in many ways while the W and I have largely been avoiding each other. My GAL plan has been coming along but I definitely struggle. At work they've noticed how depressed and stressed that I am and I had a very awkward situation with one of our VPs who went on about how good I looked with my new haircut and weight loss (15 lbs in 8 days) He was bubbling along asking if it was for healthy reasons and when I said no and that I didn't want to talk about it he realized what a faux pas had just happened and looked at me sadly. I suspect the entire company knows now that something is wrong with me. My performance is still up to par though I feel although I perhaps spend too much time here on this forum and reading other articles. I have a copy of the DB book which is on my reading pile for this weekend but I don't know if it is the right book or if I'm just too late. I bought it in part to support the efforts of this fabulous site and the team that run it. My budget doesn't quite run to getting the services that they offer and again I don't know what I could do now anyway.
Last night the WAW and I had a talk which I think got to the heart of many of the matters. I had started by telling her that I freely gave her forgiveness for the A. I needed to do that for myself so that first I wasn't dragging that along with me and I also wanted to free her from having to ask for forgiveness. Forgiveness is a gift, not a purchase. Even though I'm sure I'm lying to myself I don't truly believe that she is a WW at heart and I also suspect that the A is either over or coming to an end. To be perfectly honest - I don't really care one way or the other. This isn't about the OM or the A, it's about me, her and us.
She still won't tell me why she is leaving but I did get some clues that it's not all about me. She talked vaguely and peripherally about some of the issues she has in her own personality such as a minor case of hoarding (magazines and such mostly) as well as her perception of her poor care of our house (it has been pretty bad at times). She seems open now to seeing an IC and has gotten some references already from friends. I'm glad that I never pushed this even though I personally believe that it would be very helpful for her to talk to a professional. It seems that a lot of her friends are in therapy as well. She did also mention that some of her friends have given her what she thought was bad advise and that she wasn't listening to them any more. I asked that she treat me gently in talking to her friends and she said that she was trying to. I told her about the IC that I had just seen but did mention that she (the IC) had already heard the story from my side so perhaps that might not be the IC she wants - or perhaps it is. It is her decision. Fortunately my benefits plan covers a part of the sessions up to a fairly small maximum.
One big thing that struck me about our talk is that unusually she looked straight at me in a way that in all these years she never has. I told her that I didn't want her to go but that I wouldn't stand in her way and that I would continue to hope for her to come back and make us a family again. She's told me that at this point she wants a separation but not a divorce and that she wants her own space away from our house and me to be able to think. One thing that came out that surprised me is that she felt co-dependent as well. I've never really felt that she was hugely supportive but now that I think back she has always taken the effort to take an interest in whatever is my current passion be it boats or bow ties. She said that she is writing down her thoughts and trying to figure them out and that she would share them with me when she was ready. Despite the strong temptation - I'm not going to go snooping.
We will be telling D24 and S22 about the separation in the near future. S22 wants to come home for Mother's Day and W said she would pick him up and tell him what was happening but very likely not mentioning the A. Since we are in separate rooms it can't be a secret there. D24 is on vacation with her husband and there truly is no rush and we'll wait at least until she gets back. This weekend there is a family lunch for W parent's anniversary. I had previously asked to go but she has now directly requested that I not even though I mentioned that would raise questions. Her family will often lie about those sort of questions though and I've seen her do it herself so I expect that the message will be that I had other plans. But perhaps not. I have a difficult choice because in a few weeks there is a baby shower on my side where the men will stand in the shed while the women do the baby stuff. I'm trying to decide if I will ask her not to go. One of my conflicts is that I'm sure she bought the shower gift with the OM while having a bit of a fling with him a few weeks ago just before I discovered the A. I'm trying not to care about that part. She's also told a few good friends and her boss that she's leaving which explains why I had an awkward moment with him the other day when we exchanged the usual "how are you" greetings. The cat is slowly being let out of the bag. I've only told people who are not part of our community. I've found that being able to share with them and on this forum has been a vital release for me.
I'm sure any lawyer would cringe at this but I've now sat down and went through our finances. We've always had joint finances although W has her own chequing account that she had used for "mad money" and I've always been completely open about everything. I did up a budget showing all the bills that keep our family going, picked the ones that were either joint for the household or mine alone and put them under my column, and have left her column blank to figure out on her own except for things like her car payment etc. I've told her that as far as I was concerned we were still a family and that her moving out didn't change that and that we would face any expenses as a family. I carefully didn't use the word couple. Originally I filled the numbers in for her, but that's more co-dependency and I need to stop that. The numbers show that it can be done, but it will turn what would have been one of our best financial years ever into one where we will barely scrape by. Part of the reason I also did this was to demonstrate that she "can" go on her own as I really don't want to pay 1/3 my salary in alimony forever which is how the law reads. W mentioned that she had read about what she was entitled to but then quickly said that she would probably accept less. Not the best negotiating tactic but certainly leaves the door open to an equitable settlement that would allow me to move on completely independently.
My own first session last week with an IC was odd but not too surprising. When I first reached out to her I was in full panic mode. Prior to the appointment I had sent her a long email outlining my story in part so that I could have a release but also to give her a chance to know the background and be able to start helping right away. Well, there were some mix-ups in scheduling and she never bothered to read my letter first - which is certainly her right as a professional. She got the co-dependency thing right off and then focused on my drinking (which I still don't think was a core issue). She bluntly told me to give up on the marriage and to move on. I don't know if that was "tough love" or if it was just routine off-the-cuff "diagnosis". I do think that I got the message across that I'm lost, scared and wanting to save my marriage. She (like every other piece of good advice I've had) emphasized the importance of GAL. Personally I don't think she actually liked me much in part because of the mix-up on the schedule (I called her at the appointment time when she wasn't there and she had thought it was an hour later) as well as a comment that I made that I felt that in our rural area that a cheating woman was looked down on more than a cheating man. Hey - I don't make reality, I just try to live in it. I have a second appointment next week and we'll see if I get any actual help or not. I also don't want to use up all the available benefits in case my W goes to an IC.
One last thing. Last night after our talk I was quietly sobbing in the kitchen - I know - not very manly and I don't think she heard me. This morning I got up early so that my W could get access to the MBR to get ready for work and started my own breakfast which is pretty typical anyway for a Saturday morning. While she didn't ask me to "join" her for breakfast she did say that I didn't have to leave. I shook my head and said that I wasn't up to that today and she looked at me quite sadly. I then was in and out to start my pot of tea and then was able to have my breakfast alone while she showered and dressed. It appears that she does still have a heart even if a large part of it is hardened.
Anyway - thank you everyone who read this far. I believe that I will heal but the wounds are still very raw. Today I'm going to do things that I want to do. I'm going to buy myself some flowers for my dresser - not the sort I always got her, but the sort I used to get for myself (two red roses). I'm going to cut the grass, weed the flower beds and do my laundry and ironing. BTW - For those doubters, ironing is a truly manly occupation up there with welding. You have to do your setup properly, take care of your tools and try not to burn your willie off if the tool slips. Afterwards I'll have a sit with a good book and a couple of really big glasses of water. There's beer in the fridge if I want it - but I don't think I want it today.
I hope all of you also have a great GAL day too.
Hey Andrew,
I feel your pain. We all do.
Read the book, it is not too late. It ends when you say it ends.
I would just stop with the relationship talk... I know it is hard. Focus on that GAL. Is there anything you can do with a group? I think group GAL is the best. It takes your mind off of everything.
I would start thinking about what you want to make better about yourself. I identified things that I could work on so no matter what I will be a better me at the end of this. I think it is working!
Thanks pinn. I'm rather an introvert so group GAL isn't really my thing. It was actually her (sort of) that started the relationship talk last night - I listened - and my actions had an unexpected result.
My W hates being pressured into anything so it seems that when I went through and laid everything out on how we would handle our finances separately and sent her an email, she got it at work and then realized (I think) that things were moving beyond her control and that she had made a big mistake in giving me something that I could act on.
So - when she came home from work I was working in the garden (part of my GAL) and she came up to me trembling and said that she had a horrible day. I gave her the first hug we've had since BD and she sobbed that she was very sorry for everything. We sat in the garden and talked a bit more and I told her that I believed in her and that she was capable of surviving on her own if that was what she wanted. I did also say that if that wasn't what she wanted then I would give her whatever time she needed to make up her mind.
A bit later she came to me and told me that I "could" go to her family function if I wanted to and I said that yes I did - but now it gets a bit weird. She then told me that she needed to go away today and think and that she would meet me at the function. I suggested we meet away from the function so that we could arrive together and still keep our issues to ourselves and not get her family curious and asking questions that we don't want to answer right now. I didn't ask where she would be staying - partly because I'm giving her space and partly because I think I don't want to know. She's been doing very good (I think) in being completely honest with me as we go through this journey and asking questions that I don't want the answer to wouldn't help. My presumption is that she's going to spend the night with the OM - I believe the first time that she's done that for the whole night rather than a quickie. I could be wrong - but I think a lot of the people reading this would be thinking the same thing. I truly don't care at the moment though. I actually hope that she "does" go there and that it helps her make up her mind. The OM is richer and better looking than I am and perhaps she's checking her options. Perhaps he has horrible morning breath and will expect her to make him bacon and eggs in the morning (one of the few things she's not good at). Her complexion also has gone "blotchy" with the stress and while I still think she's beautiful the OM might be wondering what he's gotten. I don't think I even looked like I was thinking about where she'll stay. I felt a bit embarrassed for her because while we were talking about this probably 15 text messages arrived on her phone which really pushes the probability to the OM. If it's true that reinforces my thought that he's even more smothering than I was. I told her to be safe (I didn't say "have fun") and actually got an "I love you" - albeit a very quiet one. I then went back out to the garden and didn't watch her leave.
Anyway. I still have my ironing to do and need to remake my lonely bed in the MBR then I think I'm going to have a nice sit with a good book call Divorce Busting.
Tomorrow is another day.
maybe increasing your social presence could be a goal for you then? What are some things you would like improve upon?
I think you have to do some GAL'ing that is outside of the house. Let her wonder what you are doing for a bit.
A big part of my GAL strategy was to put down my beer and get up out of my chair and start doing the things that "I" like to do. I've finished off some projects in the workshop, gone for a "lot" of walks, taken charge of some things around the house that are important to me (such as gardening) and tried to put some living back into my life. Even possibly trivial things, I'm looking right now at the rose on my desk. I love roses and have done that to spoil myself.
If I were to become a social butterfly or go off to parties - that's not who I am and it would look false and more importantly BE false. As I've told my W, the shock of BD has caused me to want to be "me" again and start living again. I need to survive this journey either on my own or preferably with my W back in my arms. Hopefully she can accept the new/old me because this is who I am. As far as the DB processing goes, I think I'm getting more traction by being more self-confident and independent than I ever could by being mysterious.
To quote Polonius's advice to Leartes "To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man."
Not everyone is the same - that's what makes humanity interesting.
If I were to become a social butterfly or go off to parties...
...Didn't suggest that...
You don't seem to need any advice. Best of luck my friend
If I were to become a social butterfly or go off to parties...
...Didn't suggest that...
You don't seem to need any advice. Best of luck my friend
Confidence and independence are essential. I believe there's only so much you can achieve on your own. There's definitely something to be said to trying out a new hobby and meeting new people. That doesn't mean you need to be partying - go to a meetup for bird watching...or gardening...or stock market investing....or whatever. But getting out of the house is important not just to be mysterious, but to prove to yourself that you have social value...that you can live your life happily with or without WW.
No man is an island, entire of itself.
If I were to become a social butterfly or go off to parties...
...Didn't suggest that...
You don't seem to need any advice. Best of luck my friend
Confidence and independence are essential. I believe there's only so much you can achieve on your own. There's definitely something to be said to trying out a new hobby and meeting new people. That doesn't mean you need to be partying - go to a meetup for bird watching...or gardening...or stock market investing....or whatever. But getting out of the house is important not just to be mysterious, but to prove to yourself that you have social value...that you can live your life happily with or without WW.
I was thinking of a gardening group too.
We're not suggesting you change your personality. We're just saying to look for ways to use your interests to connect with other people.
AndrewP,
I'm an introvert myself, but with my recent marital issues I've needed the support of other people more than I ever have in the past. I've learned to appreciate the warmth and kindness of other people, even total strangers, and it's helped me become a better person.
With regard to GAL, I talked to a DB coach and he said that the GAL should be something that truly excites and energizes you, and your excitement should be infectious so that others can tell that you're excited. I kept thinking in terms of outdoor sporting activities or possibly something like restoring an old car. Then I realized that what would really excite me and get my blood flowing is trying to build a little tech startup business. The probability that a tech startup would be successful is very small, but that's not the point; what's important is that it excites me and gets my mind off of my marriage.
Well - that was an interesting weekend.
W went away on Saturday as she told me. She said that she was going to spend time alone to think but who can know if that was true or not. Sunday we met as planned before lunch with her family and she was cheerful and smiling which I mentioned to her that it was nice to see. I didn't ask any questions about her night and she didn't tell.
Lunch was generally nice and my in-laws seemed genuinely glad to see me and I was glad to see them. I think that helped reinforce that despite her throwing "you don't like my family" at me it wasn't true. The only exception was my sister in law who tried to derail the lunch for her parents with her own drama. She managed to do that later anyway and make her parent's 62nd anniversary all about her drama and dragged up every scandal in the family for 3 generations. Ours was not mentioned.
After we left we went grocery shopping and my SIL called W on her cells and started to pry - is anything wrong? - Did you want to talk? W shut her down. No telling if they talked later. Since we had separate vehicles W gave me a hug and then a big cheery wave from her car as we went home. Home was fine with us doing our separate things. W went for a multi-hour walk with one of here more stable friends and I went for a 1/2 hour in a differrent direction. At bed-time she told me good night and we wished each other a pleasant sleep.
Is this a turn? Is it "cake-eating"? Who knows. I keep telling myself to not hope.
I need to decide if I'm going to get her a Mother's Day card - I think I will for when S22 comes home this weekend. I'm pretty sure he's very worried about what is going on because I've had to cancel our usual dinner because things were rough at home and his mother is depressed.
I must confess - I snooped into our shared bank account, credit card and W's bank account online. She seems to have managed to stay somewhere for free on Saturday. Even though I suspected she stayed with OM, it still hurts especially that she was so cheerful after. I hope she's enjoying her cake. I really hope she finds her road forward because this is killing me.
Well - I need to be oblivious and pretend I don't suspect/know/care. It was a couple of days ago and today is a new day. She hasn't said that the affair was going to stop and it would appear that it hasn't despite my wishful thinking.
This is going to be a very long road I think. One step at a time.
Well - yesterday afternoon was tough. I had to stop on the way home to wipe away the tears and get myself together. I also stopped on the way home and got a Mother's Day card for her. I'm going to write in it. "Together we have raised two wonderful people. You have a family to be proud of." - No R talk in that I think but hopefully a reminder of what she'll be walking away from without being too blunt or needy. I was tempted to also pick her up flowers but I need to not be pursuing. I don't think she's ready for that.
W was out with her youth group so when she got home (late) I was still up so I put on a cheerful face and asked her about her day. She looked like hell and had a rough day - couldn't get herself organized at work etc. I validated and then got out of her way so she could use the master bath to get ready for bed. I had a bit of a cry through the night but woke up fairly refreshed.
This morning I got my routine together. Usually I linger over my breakfast to allow her to shower first but today I said "screw it" and went in while she was still stirring. I was then able to be dressed and out the door so she could see how good I looked today. I got a smile to a joke during the good byes and then stopped on the way to work to SnapChat her a picture of the sunrise with the caption "A new day is dawning". I was pleased to get a prompt response about the beautiful picture.
Why oh why was I such a fool to let her slip away from me. The hardest thing is to not live for hope but to live for the future.
I go to the IC tomorrow evening again - for my second and possibly last visit. We'll see if I can get some solid action plans on how to GAL and rebuild rather than talking about issues with my parents, drinking (been over 2 weeks completely dry) and making sure I pay her bill right away.
I also stopped on the way home and got a Mother's Day card for her. I'm going to write in it. "Together we have raised two wonderful people. You have a family to be proud of."
I was still up so I put on a cheerful face and asked her about her day.
stopped on the way to work to SnapChat her a picture of the sunrise with the caption "A new day is dawning".
How are these things NOT pursuing?
Why are you giving her a Mother's Day card? The kids are adults....they can do it themselves. Looks like you are trying to remind her of the importance of her (your) family.
Darknes - you are correct - that could well be pursuing. I don't think that there are solid lines about what is "right" or "wrong" here.
I started to write a long justification for each of the points but then deleted that. I think what it comes down to for me is becoming the sort of man that I want to be for myself and that she would want to be married to. That person is kind and caring and knows the importance of Mother's Day and sunrises. At the same time I am trying to give her space to figure out her own heart while making sure she knows that I still care and am waiting for her.
You suspect she slept in a room with another man 3 nights ago. Why are you willing to audition for the job as her husband?
Because my love for her is bigger than any affair and I believe in forgiveness. If I wasn't trying to save my marriage I wouldn't be here and would have "kicked her cheating ass to to the curb".
Because my love for her is bigger than any affair and I believe in forgiveness. If I wasn't trying to save my marriage I wouldn't be here and would have "kicked her cheating ass to to the curb".
I think you are misunderstanding me. I am absolutely not suggesting that you kick her to the curb. Im not suggesting that you cant forgive her. Im not suggesting that the two of you cant overcome this. I also believe very strongly in marriage and have no inclination towards divorce in situations not involving spousal abuse.
What I am suggesting is that you arent going to "nice guy" her back. I do not believe that these romantic gestures of pointing out her wonderful family and sending sunrises with emotional captions are going to change her mind about you. All that they are doing is reminding her of the feelings that she should have but doesnt.
Your wife was with someone else a few days ago, and you are standing around showing her that you will welcome her back with open arms. You are showing her that you are content to be her Plan B.
If you are OK with being her Plan B, why would she ever turn away from Plan A knowing that she has a safety net?
she knows how you feel about her. Stop telling her. Reminding her about it, like darknes said, only reminds her that she's not feeling that at the moment.
You need to detach. It's very hard to do, and I am just now figuring that out myself. It's not natural. You want to tell them how you feel, but now is not that time.
Darknes - you are correct - that could well be pursuing. I don't think that there are solid lines about what is "right" or "wrong" here.
I started to write a long justification for each of the points but then deleted that. I think what it comes down to for me is becoming the sort of man that I want to be for myself and that she would want to be married to. That person is kind and caring and knows the importance of Mother's Day and sunrises. At the same time I am trying to give her space to figure out her own heart while making sure she knows that I still care and am waiting for her.
I think the message in the Mother's Day card is pursuing. Your wife already knows she has wonderful kids. She doesn't need a reminder that she had them with you... I absolutely agree you want to be the best person you can be. But unfortunately, some of your actions are portraying you to be a doormat. I agree with darknes, she's going to stay with Plan A as long as possible because she knows Plan B will be waiting for her. It's OK to wait for her, but she doesn't need to know that you're waiting and you certainly can keep living your life while waiting. Keep working on yourself as you have been. If things don't go well with IC, perhaps you should try someone else that may be a better fit.
As others have suggested, find a small social group to interact with and develop new relationships. Surely, meeting with some people for a couple of hours a week isn't going to hurt you.
I'm in introvert as well... but I forced myself to go out with some friends and re-discover things that I once enjoyed, but stopped doing.
Andrew,
Detaching is very difficult. But pursuing is going to have the opposite effect that you want, it will make her feel suffocated and want to run away.
Focus on yourself instead. Don't worry about the M-day cards or flowers.
Thanks for the 2X4s everyone. I'll keep working on it.
This weekend will be tough. S22 knows that something serious is going on and may be looking for answers that I don't know that W or I are prepared to give. She has a 3 hour drive with him on Saturday picking him up and I'll be the one taking him home next week. I suspect he'll want to leave first thing on Monday.
I think what's happened to me in the last couple of days is that because W has been more pleasant and less distant to me since she broke down last Saturday and apologized for the pain she's caused and I started to feel hope. That hope caused me to think that more reminders might get more results faster. I'm "really" glad that I didn't follow through on some of the other things I've thought of like suggesting again that she return to the MBR or asking if the A is over.
I'm sure that she still doesn't know her own mind (again could be wrong and she might just be enjoying that cake) so I need to go back to giving her space and working on my own GAL.
When she is ready to talk, she will let you know. Until then, I think it's best to assume she's focused on OM.
You know what you need to do. We're here to help keep you on track, if you need it. What are you plans for the rest of this week?
Tomorrow I'm in my home office and I go to see the IC in the evening - hopefully she actually is useful this time. The first time was just going over what took me in there. I'll probably will have dinner at home with W unless she goes off for one of her multi-hour walks (generally actual walks - not off with OM). The plan is to be pleasant, interested in her life but to not mention M, R, A or any of those other letters. If asked about my day the plan is to be upbeat and positive.
One thing we do is every month that might come up tomorrow is go over our monthly budget to plan our spending / finances. Last Saturday morning I did a separate full year one since W said she was definitely leaving that showed what I would pay if we split. That was what caused her break-down when she realized that there would be no more cake. It will probably be shredded for now but it will be an awkward situation before that happens. Not sure if she'll be up to even looking at our regular budget. If not I'll probably quietly shred the documents and let this month play out without her input into our finances. We've been doing this long enough that it's pretty much automatic anyway.
Thursday / Friday is back in my city office with little overlap - keep my distance and keep polite. Saturday she'll be off to pick up S22 and I'll be doing my weekly/monthly stuff around the house which usually takes most of the day between the garden, laundry and the heavy cleaning of the cat boxes etc that I've always done. When they get back that's when it will get very tricky. My plan is to let her drive any discussion that S22 wants to have. This is her mess and she needs to deal with it. If she keeps quiet about leaving (the separate sleeping can't be hidden) that's fine by me. I'm 99.5% sure that the OM and A won't be mentioned. My only worry is that S22 will act like I did (do when I lapse) and try to push us back together.
On this topic - what put me over the edge last night was when I was alone thinking about how I would tell S22/D24 about this. It will break their hearts almost as much as mine has been.
Interesting development last night. W has been slowly accumulating money in her personal bank account for some time which I had noticed and now makes more sense to me. Part of the money that was money that had been saved against taxes with the surplus intended to be used to top up her pension savings.
Last night out of the blue she mentioned that she had talked to the bank, reviewed her mutual funds and moved the saved money into them. The implication was that she had done it that day. She also spent some time looking at both our usual budget numbers plus the "we've split" budget and it looked like she was texting while looking at it. I finished my chapter in my book and went to bed and left her at it without pretending to take much more than a passing notice.
I did our usual bank reconciliation today before work and noticed that the pension transaction actually happened BEFORE I opened up the "we've split" can. She's also set aside the paper copy of the "we've split" budget where S22 won't see it and perhaps where she can work on it.
So - she's it seems that she's still planning her exit or at least exploring her options which I must admit is good. She might be regretting moving that money but it wasn't a lot and the "we've split" budget identifies exactly what cash is on hand and what it had been previously saved for. I think that it's good for her to know how she can walk and if she does walk it will be good for me to finally have closure on that chapter.
Thinking about it in DB context though it's not pursuing, not controlling but laying things out for her to make her own mind up and letting her know that I'll be moving on in my own direction if she moves away from me. That's why I only filled in the numbers on her side of the budget for things that were joint but now would be expected to be her sole responsibility like her car insurance and payments. I still want her to stay though and I hate to think that I might have paved the road for her to leave.
Tonight we're having dinner together at home (rare since BD) and she mentioned that she might be interested in having our usual monthly budget review. I'm wondering how it will go. I expect that she'll go with the status quo making sure she still gets her cake.
Your onus in paving the road for her to leave ended the day that she made a decision to break her vows.
Just make sure she's eating gluten-free cake.
I hope you have money saved for yourself. Be sure to document the amounts she has taken out as everything in the joint account should be split. If you split it later, obviously, she will get more than half since she has already taken some.
You certainly haven't paved the way for her to leave. Finances are important to talk about.
Hope IC goes well tonight.
Saturday she'll be off to pick up S22 and I'll be doing my weekly/monthly stuff around the house which usually takes most of the day between the garden, laundry and the heavy cleaning of the cat boxes etc that I've always done.
So when do you get to go out and do something for you?
And I'd be super careful about the last 4 words I bolded. Now is a time to forge a new AndrewP. Don't be afraid of change just because youre comfortable with how you've "always done" things.
Actually that stuff "is" for me. My W doesn't care about the yard and laundry as much as I do. I've even gone and worked on my ironing when I'm stressed and I find the need for focus on a purely mechanical task quite calming. She's even joked that she's afraid to offer to do my ironing now because I'm so very particular about it. Not that she's done it for 25 years for me. I used to use the dry-cleaners (long irrelevant story redacted).
It's a great feeling at the end of a Saturday to look around and see a tidy garden, freshly pressed shirts hanging up to finish drying etc. I used to go and sit in my chair with a good book and beer afterwards. For the last couple of weeks and going forward I've adjusted my routine to take my time more with these chores to make them last (and fill the day without W) and will sit with a big glass of water and a good book when I'm done. I used to rush through the chores just in case there was something W wanted to do on a Saturday afternoon (she works Saturday mornings) - which hasn't happened in years.
AndrewP,
I've been doing the same thing with my yard work. I relish being out in the yard making things look better. I've been extending the amount of time I spend doing the yard work because it's nice to be outside and the likelihood of any strife is very small.
Ironing is just too tedious for me. Do you think maybe you could iron my shirts? I'd bake some chocolate chip cookies for you.
Actually that stuff "is" for me.
I used to rush through the chores just in case there was something W wanted to do on a Saturday afternoon.
Hmmmmmmm....I have a hard time seeing "chores" as a GAL activity.
Can you rush through them Saturday and then go out and do something? It doesnt even have to be a group at first. How about just going to a Botanical Garden or other museum? Or even going to a garden center to look at the flowers for an hour. Anything to get you started going out and doing things away from the house.
I hope you have money saved for yourself. Be sure to document the amounts she has taken out as everything in the joint account should be split. If you split it later, obviously, she will get more than half since she has already taken some.
You certainly haven't paved the way for her to leave. Finances are important to talk about.
Hope IC goes well tonight.
Thanks dream. The IC cancelled on me because she wasn't feeling well. I think I'm getting better on my own but will still reach out for help. I checked my benefits and the maximums are per person so I don't need to worry about taking away from what W may need (I know - not very DB but I've not mentioned it to her).
Finances I'm not too worried about. We really only have our savings, chequing and one joint credit card. The savings account I have an alarm on that sends me an email on any transaction. I could recover OK if she were to empty it. The chequing account usually has little in it beyond what covers the bills. We're not quite living pay to pay but we're not far from it. The credit card is in my name and a phone call would cancel her's. Yes - I already thought this through early in the process. I know where the trigger is but won't pull it unless she starts going even more weird. Funny thing is - before all this I had been meaning to talk to her about getting her own CC to help build up her credit. When she was managing our money she had 2 - maxed out and didn't make the payments. That's why in our early 50s we have minimal equity in the house, little savings, and few investments.
Ironing is just too tedious for me. Do you think maybe you could iron my shirts? I'd bake some chocolate chip cookies for you.
Peanut butter and you have a deal.
One of the things that I'm standing firm on is that this is MY home and I'm finally taking charge of things that I want to do around here without waiting for W to give me permission or worrying about upsetting her. It makes me feel good to do it and pleasantly W hasn't raised a fuss - not that she's here much in the last few weeks. She seems to be making quite an effort to avoid me. Right now she's out for another multi-hour walk with a female friend (one of the more stable ones).
About the only positive thing to come out of this is that both of us are losing weight. I think her's was originally to be attractive to OM but she's embraced getting fit to an extent that is way beyond that now. For me, I've dropped almost 20lbs in the last 2 weeks. I've been trying to hide it to a degree because it is so extreme. Who would have guessed that I would ever use MyFitnessPal to make sure I get "enough" calories in a day. Depression [censored] especially when it has to be hidden.
It's 2:30 am here and I almost sent my wife a message asking her to come back to the MBR so I could hold her. It's been nearly 3 weeks since she last held me. When I found out about the OM was when she moved out of the MBR but right now I'd almost hug him just to have some human contact.
Sorry. Feeling weak right now. When I found out about the A it made me impotent. I think that is starting to reverse.
Thanks - back to sleep if I can again.
I don't want a hug from the person that broke my heart, and does not want to change. That person I don't even want in my life. Get a teddy bear if you want a hug - or rather ask yourself "why do i need human contact? Why can't i just be alone?"
I know that lurking on W's Facebook posts are not good for me but I think I'm seeing some encouraging signs. In the last week or so all of the "I'm a bad girl and having fun" likes that she'd been doing have dropped off to nothing. There's also been a move from her liking angst and drama images to liking ones that talk about being true to yourself and being responsible for only your own happiness and not that of other people.
She also seems to have cut out some of the friends who were egging her on in her A and is spending a lot of time with one who I think would be a stable influence. I've only seen her have one drink in the last week. I don't know if she's noticed that I've had none.
Perhaps she's going for her own GAL (I hope so) - are you lurking on this board as well W ?? (doubt it).
I need to keep working on myself - I have a re-scheduled - re-scheduled appointment with my IC on Saturday morning and then I'll buy myself my weekly roses and get the house ready for the possible drama of S22 coming home for a couple of days into the middle of this mess probably with a lot of questions.
So - I'm wondering. One thing that seems to have had some impact for me, not sure if it is positive or not are dropping "reality checks" on to W. So that people don't have to read back I have a WAW who turned into a WW.
The first cheque was cashed when I found out about OM 3 weeks ago and laid out the ground rules. W moved out of the MBR that night on her own (I said she didn't need to) which was in hind-sight a probably very good thing for DBering.
The second one was when I pointed out to her that having unprotected sex with another man ran the risk even at her age of pregnancy and that her period was late. I'm almost positive that she went out and got a pregnancy testing kit because she was terrified of me finding a receipt from the drug store when she saw me entering one of my own into our books.
The third one was last Saturday when I did up a "OK - you want to move out budget - here's the numbers". That got me an apology for the pain she's caused plus a bit of thawing in her attitude towards me which seems to continue.
Now, with my current (rather scary) rapid weight loss I'm thinking I should go and see my doctor just to make sure that nothing is gone out of whack and also ask for an STD test. My appetite and libido just crashed after I found out about the OM. I'm thinking that letting her know the results of the STD test would be another cheque in the "you are doing things that are a really bad idea" ledger although presented as an "I'm clean (I hope)" you should check too statement. It might backfire as well though.
One both good and bad thing lately is that she's been avoiding me. Last night when I got home at 6:30pm she'd left me a note (positive - being more courteous) that she was out to dinner. She didn't get home until 11:30. I didn't wait up, left the outside light on that she'd already turned on, didn't open the garage for her, didn't call "hello" when she came upstairs. The good thing is that I'm able to work on my GAL without performing for an audience. The bad thing is that I think I'm actually doing pretty well at it and that I look a "lot" better and am feeling a better mental attitude about myself. I want to shout out "Hey - look at me! I'm hot! I'm a real person!" but that's the absolute wrong thing to do. Just a shame that I don't "think" she's noticed. She just walked by the office while I was typing this (switch to Facebook) and we had a pleasant chat. Instead of sitting here unshaven in my PJs I'm showered, shaved, and well dressed - I have an appointment my my IC this morning unless she bails on me again.
This is going to be a tough weekend. W is going to pick up S22 who is coming home for Mother's day. I'm still going to give W a card but only sign it - no additional pursuing or nagging. Mother's day will probably be tense and I still haven't decided what or how much to tell S22. At this point I'm intending on letting W drive that conversation - after all it's her affair ...
Oh - one other thing - it doesn't really matter a lot I think but it's been wearing on my mind.
We all worry about the LBS (left behind spouse) - my wife's poor LBD (left behind dog) is really suffering. He's a pomeranian that never really got a lot of love and attention. When we got him I had said that I would only agree if W and the kids took full responsibility for him. Well - we all know how that worked out so I've done the basics - cleaning up after him and feeding him, occasionally watching Bloomberg News with him (they're smart dogs) etc. He's really suffering right now too with separation anxiety. I've been trying to sit with him when W is out to try to calm him down but he's become a lot more needy. Fortunately W has stepped up her game a bit when she's actually here but he's going to need healing too. Right now W is trying to have her breakfast and he's constantly pestering at her. I would have taken him for a walk but I need to remind myself that brownie points are for pixies - not men.
I don't think any of the checks that you're doing are helping your relationship at all. I think you should see a doctor and get checked out for yourself. No need to tell your wife about it unless you've gotten a STD from her.
Keep focusing on you and building yourself up. She *may* be noticing, but she certainly isn't going to say anything at this point. Not when OM is still on her mind.
I still think there's no need for a Mother's Day card from you. She's not your mother and your kids are old enough to get their own card. Hope IC and your weekend goes well.
Well - this was a bit of a shocker. My IC fired me. During our first session she had sat on the opposite side of the room and seemed to have very defensive body language. Even though I was in very obvious pain she kept going back to how divorce was normal and that I should just give up - no real messaging on how to build myself up but she had some lovely props that she used to describe a co-dependant relationship.
I had put it down largely to her not feeling well along with a scheduling mix-up that might have thrown her off. When I was talking to W later she asked where I found her (google) and seemed quite surprised that she was the therapist that I had selected.
This second session also had numerous scheduling snafus but we were both there on time. The IC had the same body language keeping her coat on and constantly tugging at it and wrapping it around herself from as far away in the room as she could get from me. Being as I was there to get help I was completely open about everything. The IC seemed to keep going back to asking why my W was leaving and was very unsatisfied with my answer of "I have no idea". We had a conflict with the IC kept repeating the same question - something about "why do you think your wife believes x" and kept interrupting me with the question again when I would try to say that I didn't know how she was thinking. I eventually did what I do at work meetings when this happens and stop and point out that the way conversations work was that she would talk and then I would talk. Didn't go over well at all.
I also told her that deep inside there was a dark place that wanted revenge to which she got very offended and tried to tell me that slander laws would come after me. She wasn't happy when I pointed out that slander only applies if it's not true. She also strongly suggested that I go and see a lawyer and check because she felt that even though W is having an affair that it made no difference as far as divorce laws go. She was quite upset when I pointed out that in our region that yes it does make a difference and that BTW - I've some background in law and have read the legislation.
I kept asking for her to help me find a path forward to build myself up and got nothing. I only really got her attention when I mentioned that suicide had been contemplated but discarded - I'm sure others here can appreciate the pain and despair that I feel. She was about to call the police and have me put into lock-down in the hospital.
I was extremely offended as well when she really pushed wanting to know if I beat my wife. Certainly I can understand the need for the question but she was quite persistent in asking.
At the end she said that there was really nothing that she could do for me and suggested that I self-study Karl Yung's theories.
So - I need to watch for police cruisers parked outside my house with an intervention team for either my rage issues or self harm.
Sigh. Finding another IC will be difficult. I live in a rural area with few resources. After the session I started running my errands and pulled over to the side of the road and bawled my eyes out. I don't think I've had that sort of full-on loud wailing crying session since I've been an adult.
On another note - W is off to pick up S22 for his visit. They'll be back in about 7 hours. Before she left I asked her what she was going to tell him. I told her that I wanted to keep it minimal because it was none of their affair (slipped that word in "innocently"). She said that she had talked to S22 and D24 and told them that we are having "difficulties". I agreed to keep it at that level. She really stumbled though because she couldn't let the word affair come out of her own lips.
Well - off to do my and doodler's ironing (it hasn't come in the mail yet doodler).
I don't think any of the checks that you're doing are helping your relationship at all. I think you should see a doctor and get checked out for yourself. No need to tell your wife about it unless you've gotten a STD from her.
Thanks dream.
It raises a question that I've been struggling with on tactics vs strategy. I know that as you've said the focus needs to be on myself but I am still determined to win my WW back.
From some things I've read here it requires a shock or loss sometimes to get a WW to reconsider her cake-eating ways and was wondering if I could/should deliberately introduce such a shock. I suspect that the consensus would be not to. Strategy says to be patient and wait for the A to burn out and work on GAL so that I can move on with or without W. As I mentioned on someone else's thread though - I have a hard time not fiddling with things and trying to nudge them. That's one of many reasons why I'm grateful to this forum to haul me back in line.
So - the plan is to keep focusing on myself. My new roses look lovely on my desk. I'm going to start working on my "protect AndrewP" plan as well keep working on my GAL plan. I'm going to make an appointment with our bank manager to see if I can have a block put on our joint savings account so that no large amount can be withdrawn without both of our consent and to see if she can do that quietly. Making the doctor's appointment is on my "to do". Not sure what's required for STD testing but they'll be sending me to the lab anyway for blood work because of the weight loss I'm sure.
This morning I'm pretty sure I overheard W talking to OM cheerfully and chattily. It almost sounded like they were making plans for when I'm away at a conference in a couple of weeks. I deliberately didn't try to eavesdrop closer. It hurts.
On the other hand she was pleasant to me as well and seemed genuinely happy to see me when I stopped by a youth fund-raiser she was working at to give my support (love those cookies - only allow myself 2 per day maximum though).
I eventually did what I do at work meetings when this happens and stop and point out that the way conversations work was that she would talk and then I would talk. Didn't go over well at all.
I am sure that didn't go over well... you weren't at a work meeting.
If you really have 'no idea' why your wife is leaving then that would be a something to start seriously thinking about. I am guessing that was where your IC was trying to go. Dive deep and think about it.
pinn - I've agonized over that question of why she wants to leave ever since she first told me that she was leaving and that there was nothing I could do about it while she was drunk and we were out of the country at a resort in March.
I know that I'm not a perfect husband and have realized that I was rather smothering and codependent. In my early 50s I weigh more than I should and (used to) drink too much beer on a Saturday night. I'm a quiet introvert who has odd hobbies that often become intense focuses for me (which she usually plays along with). She's never doubted that I loved her and I never doubted her love before now. I do believe that she does love me still.
My own theory is that when W turned 50 last year she realized that her life wasn't the same as when she was a wild party girl in her early 20s. I think she's looked back on that with nostalgia. When she met me she had made a number of mistakes and the "nice guy" who was solid, reliable with a good job probably seemed ideal. To me, the fun girl with big boobs who was good in bed and fabulous to talk to was the perfect woman. I've done a bunch of reading about peri-menopause and it is common for women to feel different about their lives - probably why they call it "the change". When she looked at me from the platform of being a 50 year old woman she perhaps just saw a continued drift into complacency and she started hanging out with more party type friends - which I actually encouraged since I knew I wasn't and kept hoping to be invited along (I wasn't). At that time she was probably a fairly typical WAW. She's always been flirtatious which I've cautioned her that it could get her into to trouble and one particular man was captured by her charm and started pursuing her more than a year ago - even before she decided to leave. When she had told me about him I mentioned that he seemed more interested than was appropriate and she just laughed it off. He caught her and they (probably) had first a "good friends" EA which one day turned into a PA (which my W said was never her intention - she called it "accidental") but she is still being thrilled by it. My W has always believed that I would never forgive her having an A and so that was why I think she dropped the bomb accidentally while drunk. Otherwise I might never have known. She was honest though when I asked her when we were back in our own country if it was true but at that time refused to say why. I did all of the expected things, pleading, weeping, begging both for her to stay and for her to tell me why. Finally - my digging into reasons turned up the A. I know that's not the only reason why she wants to leave but that was the trigger for the announcement.
So - I still honestly have no reason that I can understand of what I may have done that would cause my wife to want to leave. She said that she's writing her thoughts down in a journal which I will NOT look for and has said that when she figures it out that she will tell me. I have my doubts on that.
In the mean-time she's still in the house reluctant to leave. She has also resisted any action that I have suggested such as canceling my (rather expensive) insurance policy which was intended to support her if something happened to me to give her the capital to start on her own. After one time saying that she was moving out she back-pedalled on that the next day in a panic. Is she cake-eating? Probably. Is she lost and confused as well? I think so.
It may well be a true case of "it's not you, it's me". In the mean-time I'm trying hard to become the best AndrewP that I can be for myself so that no matter where this journey leads me I can walk that path. I still hope and pray that it will be side by side with W but have accepted that I may have to walk it alone. The uncertainty and the waiting is quite painful for me as is the fact that we're keeping it quiet from our families. I think she's too lost in the fog right now to feel the same level of pain but she does have "some" sympathy for mine.
In the mean-time I'm trying hard to become the best AndrewP that I can be for myself so that no matter where this journey leads me I can walk that path.
OK... so what are you working on (specifically) to become the man only a fool would leave? What are you character flaws?
In the mean-time I'm trying hard to become the best AndrewP that I can be for myself so that no matter where this journey leads me I can walk that path.
OK... so what are you working on (specifically) to become the man only a fool would leave? What are you character flaws?
Well - there's a list.
- I'm codependant
- I'm a more than a bit of a know-it-all
- I'm fat
- I drank too much
- I have weird hobbies that occasionally take over my life
- I spend far too much time working (5 hours / day commute) plus on-call and a poor work / personal boundary.
So - what I'm doing is
- Living my life more independently and not looking to W for permission to fart.
- While I still make time to listen to W and validate I don't make it the focus of my day and don't go out of my way to make it happen like I used to.
- I make sure to mention to W whenever one of her great ideas works out (she's quite smart) and ask her her opinions and listen.
- I've been making sure to see something positive in every day and when asked about my day talk about that instead of the negative.
- I've been going on long walks (something I love doing but only used to do on vacation - there's a long irrelevant story behind some of the reasons I wasn't walking)
- I've cut out almost all the beer. Not become a tea-totaller which wouldn't be me and would seem prudish to W, but so that it doesn't run my daily schedule or prevent me from doing things when and how I want to.
- I'm focused on healthy eating and activities - I actually have to use MyFitnessPal to make sure I'm getting "enough" to eat.
- I'm connecting to more people via social media and in real life.
- I'm spending more time on my appearance and grooming so that I can look in the mirror and say "damn - I look good today" and don't slouch around the house unshaven in my stained workshop clothes.
- I've bought new clothes that fit my slimmer self.
- Every week I buy myself two roses. One for my desk and one for my dresser and appreciate the beauty therein.
- I've taken charge of the flower beds on our property making them a thing of pride rather than the overgrown mess they were when I had felt that they were W's territory.
- I had been looking for a new job for a better quality of life but have put that on hold (almost had a new one too) so that I can focus on other parts of this list. I have great benefits and a lot of freedom to schedule myself how I want plus it's a very "I'm having a personal melt-down" friendly environment. I can't risk losing that right now in the stress of a new role.
As I find more things I'll be doing them too but making sure that I still leave myself time to have the solitude and quiet that sometimes I need.
pinn - Thank you so much for asking - it made me feel good to make this list.
There are days that I think that I shouldn't be allowed on the internet in the middle of the night.
Last night when I woke up at 2:30am like I often do now I was thinking about my day yesterday and S22 who came home last night for Mother's day. W was chipper and cheerful and it was all I could do to hold it together. S22 definitely noticed that I was a wreck. I'd not intended that he see me like this.
So - at 2:30 I composed this message but didn't hit send until I got up 3 hours later and had a good long think about if I wanted to.
I'm sorry that I was so down when S22 came home.
Your continued cheating, the uncertainty about the future, and your distance from me, every day adds new pain on top of old pain that doesn't go away. Forgiveness only frees me from hate, not pain.
So - chest out, balls down - I'll try to find some sparkle for our son today.
W got up a short while ago and is very subdued. I feel bad about "ruining" her Mother's Day but she's resilient and will probably be recovered by the time S22 gets up around noon.
W and I are supposed to go grocery shopping later this morning - we'll see if she's still up to it. When I exited the kitchen this morning saying that I'd let her have her breakfast in peace she commented "It's your house" to which I replied that it was her house too. I "should" have said that it's OUR house. Oh well - I can't do the witty repartee all the time.
One thing I've noticed about communicating with her via messages is that it allows me to say what I want to say without confrontation and then most times we just seem to pretend the message never happened.
Did I make a mistake? I don't know. W has been getting more flagrant about her A and I'm expecting that soon she'll go one step too far and her secret will be out in the general community. It might be already because you never know in a small town what people are saying about you. I have noticed that some of my neighbours are taking more notice of me and going out of their way to say Hi and be friendly.
I miss my own Mom today. She was always the rock that held our family together.
AndrewP,
I've just been catching up on your message thread.
I haven't mailed you my clothes that need to be ironed because my wife has been packing and moving and she took all of my clothes as well. The benevolent side effect is that I have nothing that needs to be ironed. I was going to bake peanut butter cookies, but she also took the peanut butter. I'm sorry.
Right now I'm wondering if anyone will notice that the only thing I'm wearing is a loin cloth made from a sock. I saw one the neighbors eye-balling me and I was afraid he'd call the cops, but then he blew me a kiss. I'm guessing I'm okay for now.
With regard to introversion, I'm a lot like you; I'm very introverted and I can become so focused on one thing (hobby or otherwise) that it becomes my entire life. I've learned to be more sociable and more open and overtly caring about others, but I'll always be an introvert,
With regard to IC, my first IC was terrible. Once my marriage woes began, my wife and I went to an MC. She was great. The MC became my IC. She's priceless and I have a lot to thank her for.
I hope you have a wonderful day and I hope your GAL and DBing progresses well.
I'm sorry that I was so down when S22 came home.
Your continued cheating, the uncertainty about the future, and your distance from me, every day adds new pain on top of old pain that doesn't go away. Forgiveness only frees me from hate, not pain.
So - chest out, balls down - I'll try to find some sparkle for our son today.
W got up a short while ago and is very subdued. I feel bad about "ruining" her Mother's Dat
So what was your goal in sending this note? What did you want it to achieve?
How does sending this fit into your overall goals? Does it bring you closer to them?
Before doing anything like this, I think these are the kinds of questions you need to ask yourself. This feels to me like you want her to know your pain and to acknowledge and apologize for it. And promise not to continue to cause you pain. It looks like you are reaching for assurances from her. My guess is that she is in absolutely no place to give that to you. In fact, she likely doesn't give a single care about the pain you are feeling. But that's just my guess based on the stories I've read.
So ask yourself the questions above. What do you think?
dark beat me to it... I was going to ask the same things.
In the early stages for me, I would come here and post anything that I wanted to say. I would get all sorts of opinions and thought provoking questions back at me. It really helped me.
Andrew, im sorry that you are going through this too... It is said to see so much pain happening to so many people.
I'm curious as to why you felt you should send the text even after sleeping on it (I'm guessing you slept on it because you thought it might not be a good idea)?
I am struggling with Mother's Day myself, my mom dropped of a Mother's Day card for my W and it hurt me to think how much my Mom is going to hurt knowing she so loves someone who is doing this to her son if/when she finds out. I decided I wouldn't take my S16 to pick out a Mother's Day card for my WW, not sure if that's the right thing to do, but it's what I decided was best for me..
Hang in there man, there have been lots of success stories of reconciliation, I'm praying yours is one of them.
I was going to say that there were multiple reasons why I sent this message. The reality is - yes - I wanted to hurt W and let her know that I'm feeling pain. After I told her last week that I forgave her for having the affair she became more blatant about going out with OM and I needed to let her know that I did not find that acceptable. I also was letting her know that her actions were causing pain not only to me but to S22 as well through him seeing me so hurt.
Was it stupid? Probably. Did it hurt my overall DB cause in terms of the recommended way on this forum? Probably. Did it make me feel better seeing that she was contrite this morning? Damn straight. Will it make her be more circumspect about seeing OM? Maybe. Did the fact that it was Mother's Day mean anything to this? Only a bit and that was to remind her that she is not just herself. She's part of a family who cares deeply about her and each other.
I see this as me standing my ground and not letting her walk all over me. After sending this I felt my balls grow two sizes (they're still pretty small) but they're becoming mine again. I'm setting boundaries that I need to have to protect myself. I will no longer spend my life worrying about what will or will not offend her.
As a followup note, we did go out and do the grocery shopping together as planned. We had a pleasant time and visited over coffee. I asked her how she was doing and she replied "good" which perhaps is true. She always did like cake. I told her that I was still struggling but that I was finding myself again.
We then drove home and I buggered off for a multi-hour walk and think in the sunshine. She and S22 are having a walk in the woods right now. Hopefully he will be able to remind her about how important her family is. On the other hand since we're supporting him right now she may be focusing on his flaws.
So - perhaps I've set myself back in getting W to come back to me, but I'm standing my ground and finding myself and that's perhaps more important. Today - it's definitely more important to me.
When they get back from their walk, I'll be upbeat, tell them about the baby turtle I saved and listen to anything they want to talk about.
She is in crazy fog land. She doesn't care about what she is doing, only about herself. You trying to punish her is enforcing her thoughts of you being the enemy. Any logic is out the window. You can't win her back with sweetness or criticism. You wouldn't want her back from shame would you? You only want her back motivated, committed, and willing to do anything to win your trust and fix the marriage.
You may never get that, but it should be the only way you would want her. Bowery more about you and less about her!!
I see this as me standing my ground and not letting her walk all over me. After sending this I felt my balls grow two sizes (they're still pretty small) but they're becoming mine again. I'm setting boundaries that I need to have to protect myself. I will no longer spend my life worrying about what will or will not offend her.
Am I reading the same letter as what you sent?
All I see you saying is "your A is hurting me. But I'll put on a show for S22 to show I'm ok."
There's no boundaries there.
You did it so you could feel better. If there's one thing I've learned here, it's that it is MUCH better to function based on 1) your goals and 2) logic than on your emotions. You may feel good about it now, but feelings CHANGE. Imagine eating 24 ounces of the best steak in the world. As you're eating it, it's the best feeling, but once you're done, you'll have regret over eating so much...and then you'll have a stomach ache later.
So you may feel good about it today. But if it didn't get you closer to your goals, then it isn't a good move for AndrewP long-term.
Well - I survived. Mother's day actually went fairly well. W and S22 had a good walk and he and I talked later while W was in another room. I even had my first beer in 3 weeks (it was delicious and stopping at 1 felt good). I made sure not to say anything that would cause concern if it was overheard and stayed largely upbeat like I'd promised. S22 didn't get a card (he's not very good at that) and W was surprised and seemed pleased by mine and looked thoughtful after reading it. I'd only signed it but it was a nice card of the sort I would have gotten her anyway about family, motherhood and all that stuff.
I think W was a bit surprised that I just took over cleaning up the kitchen and made my own lunch for today (I've had to do that anyway for the last few weeks). I'd talked to her when we were out that it would be nice if she started doing that again (she made great lunches) and that the only reason I had been doing it was that she hadn't been around to do it for me. She had said then that "we'd talk" - we never talked - I didn't wait and just took care of it myself like the independant guy with balls that I'm trying to become.
The evening was muted and when she passed through the MBR to get ready for bed she looked straight ahead. I made a couple of validating comments about some stuff she had inspired me to do (covering the car against frost) and got a cheerful response. She was a bit down because she'd try to get in touch with her own mother but was unable to. She's been having issues with her parents blowing her off lately. They're almost 90 so it shouldn't be unexpected.
This morning was our usual "two ships passing" morning and S22 and I headed off for the 2 hour drive to the city where I work and his bus stop to home.
S22 is a wonderful man. I dug slightly about what he and W had talked about but told him and he agreed that it was private. I told him that I wasn't going to ask him to pick sides to which he replied that he wouldn't anyway. I did get that W had noticed some of the more obvious things that have happened but not the weight loss (which I'm trying to conceal). A son should never see his father cry but mine did and was supportive. As agreed with W I didn't mention the A but told S22 that I still have no clue as to why W and I are having problems (true in the base case). I said it was like an alien was living in her skin. I expressed concerns about some of the possible negative influences around her and that I had changed my will and not told W. I made sure he knew where everything was and how to access my computer accounts. I also asked him to call S24 and tell her about his weekend and his thoughts. It turns out that W had possibly told the kids before me that she was unhappy and that we were having problems. I don't think that they took it seriously until now. He agreed with my concerns about the weight loss and that I should see a doctor about it. He also suggested that I continue to pursue therapy. He gave me a big hug when we parted - normally we just do a manly handshake but he knew I needed it. It was the first real hug I've had from anyone in 3 weeks.
So the cat is poking it's head out of the bag. I now have S22 and D24 to lean on for support (they're both great people). I just got off the phone with the doctor's office and had a very sympathetic nurse make an appointment for testing for my weight loss and STD testing. As per good advice from here I'm going to keep quiet about that last part. I'll have to let W know that I'm working from home an extra day next week but am not sure that I'll not mention the Dr appointment just that I have "some things to do".
So - as I said in a letter to a dear friend this morning and to W in my infamous message - "Chest Out - Balls Down and Forward". I'm going to see if there's a movie out this week that I want to see and might make a nice night of it on my own without checking in first on where I am going.
One thing that strikes me often is how unreal this all feels. I don't know about the rest of you but I can be sitting here working away and then it strikes me out of the blue. My wife wants to leave me and is having an affair - the gut clenches - I feel a wave of real fear and crushing pain.
But so much of the time it doesn't feel real - like a movie that is happening to someone else.
Andrew,
I've been having that feeling for the past six months. It won't get any better for a while, from what I've been told. Need to have patience to work through it.
It does feel unimaginable most days, a shock that hasn't really left yet, like a bad dream. The first 3 months of so, I often thought she would call and a miracle would happen. Day by day... Walking this path alone.
Yeah after nearly 2 months for me Andrew I feel the same way still. It's almost surreal. I wake up somedays and feel good and my mind jolts me right back to reality. Your wife is not your wife anymore. Her heart belongs to another man and you need to figure out what the future looks like without her. It's a tough pill to swallow.
Just know your not along dude. We're all eating the same [censored] pie. I'm just glad there is a forum like this that I can relate to others and realize that it's not an uncommon situation and I'm able to gain some insight and possibly some good advice on how to work through it all.
Andrew,
I feel just like you and the others; it's definitely surreal. In fact, some days it's unimaginably surreal. I don't think I have a wild enough imagination to conceive of some of the things that have happened.
Well - today was interesting. Last night I got home from work and W wasn't there. No real surprise so I did my stuff, made my lunch for the next day, took care of her dog (I don't have the heart to neglect him) and went to bed. I was feeling a bit bad thinking about what she might be up to when the phone rang at 9:00pm. It was the MIL looking for W. I mentioned that I didn't know where she was and the MIL reminded me that it was the night for the youth group which she had forgotten as well - that made me feel a bit better and I agreed to pass on the message. Youth group ends at 8:00pm though and it was 9:00pm. Looking at Facebook I saw that she'd been online around 8:45pm. So - bad feelings still. W came home a bit after 10:00pm. I pretended to not hear.
This morning I was running late and W is off work getting ready for her colonoscopy tomorrow. She came down as I was going up and at the bottom of the stairs started leaning in for a hug like she always would used to during the good mornings. I pretended not to see and we were polite. She then - unprompted - told me why she was so late (a friend - not OM had stood her up and she was stuck waiting for her). I got dressed and ready for work. When I was leaving W made a point of mentioning several times how good I looked. Now this was amazing. She "never" tells me how good I look (I think I look pretty decent personally). She'll occasionally comment on my wardrobe but not me. I gave her a very pleased "thanks" - pointed out that the bathroom in MBR had the softest paper, a bookshelf and WiFi - wished her luck on the pooping. She then thanked me for taking her to the procedure tomorrow - I said "that's what families do" (avoiding the "R" talk) and headed off to work with a bounce in my step.
I know I'm deluding myself and will try to stamp down the hope. Today I did a couple of more GAL changes. Changed the password on my personal banking which has our shared credit card and removed the pillow case from her side of the bed and put my pillow in the middle. I don't know if she'll notice that last bit - I'm not good at subtle. I need to talk to the bank and make sure that the daily transaction limit is low enough that no substantial damage can be caused if she goes weird on me.
One the way to work the song "All These Years" by Blake Shelton came on and I pulled over and had a bit of a cry. I then DIDN'T text it to W even though I really wanted to.
Trying to put some sparkle in my day - thanks everybody.
Music is an interesting trigger. When I first suspected that OM was trying to move from what my W thought was just friendship into something closer I came across the Meghan Trainor song - "I'm gonna love you - like I'm gonna lose you". When I begged W to not get closer to OM I also played that song and shared the (quite well done) video with her. At the time she discounted my worries as silly. I actually did the clinging and panic thing then - I was so worried. She did get interested in other music by Meghan and downloaded it. I still remember how when the A was in full flow and I'm not sure if it was before or after she told me she was leaving that she would play this song over and over. She'd also play the "I'm a naughty girl" songs that Meghan also does quite well frequently too.
Today while waiting with W at the hospital for her colonoscopy "I'm gonna love you" came on the muzak. I saw her look closely at me and see that I was getting deep into the song. I then got up and stood at the window for a while looking away and then left the room until the song was over. When I came back W was wiping her eyes and then we chatted cheerfully about other stuff until it was time for her to go.
Her heart I think is still cold and hard but she still has feelings. I also made darned sure today that I looked my best and I felt quite good about how I looked.
Man - I am such a wuss. It's probably not good DB philosophy but it made me feel good.
I got the call from the hospital to go and pick up W. I dashed out, got her a large coffee (I know my W) and went in to see her. She was still groggy from the anesthesia and was grateful for the coffee. I popped around, gave her a brief hug (the first in weeks) and a quick kiss on the top of the head and told her I was happy to see her well. I then sat at the foot of the bed and rubbed her feet joking that I needed to keep her feet warm (something I'd read earlier in this journey and talked to her about). We talked about nothing until she was ready to get dressed. I asked if she wanted help or wanted me to step out. I stepped out and waited then took her home making sure that she got up the stairs safely. I then buggered off and gave her space.
I feel good. I think I was able to show her that I still care deeply for her without being clingy. I was originally going to go out for a movie on Saturday without telling her where I was going (being all mysterious ...) but did tell her what I was doing when the subject of renting another came up. We might watch that one together on Sunday. As far as me going out on Saturday her response was "good".
So - No "R" talk that I can recall except a couple of comments from me that "of course" I was there when she needed me. I kept the physical contact to a tiny bit. I gave her space. I think that contact with OM hasn't been much in the last week or so - she really hasn't had a chance. Perhaps distance will make him act like a jerk. If the weekend goes according to plans she'll be spending it with me and not him. I just need to focus on being a great AndrewP and not screw up. It might start to get tough though - I felt my libido starting up for the first time since BD today.
Oh well - back to trying to make some numbers balance at work. Not sure if you all will give me a high-five or a 2X4
Hey
Sandi2 has a whole thread dedicated to the WW. With rules and how to act. I dont think this follow the rules.
If WW is still having contact with OM, you need to make the boundary about not having a third person in your marriage and you wont be in an open marriage.
Unless I am missing something why are you doing anything more then you would for a neighbor for her?
To quote the fictional Captain Hector Barabosa and paraphrase the ever so real sandi2 herself, "these are more what we like to call guidelines more than actual rules".
I have already established that I do not accept another person in my marriage. And, in fact, I would do this for one of my neighbours as they would do for me - except for the foot rubbing part I'm sure. I have made it plain to W that I still love her and that she needs to choose. In the reading I have done here of those few people who have successfully gotten to piecing their marriage back together, it has been done by people who I believe feel like I do. That you need to GAL yourself and become the person that only a fool would leave. For me, that person is both strong and confident but also caring, giving and forgiving. But not stupid.
I fully expect this minor improvement to be temporary but she will hopefully remember my kindness despite our problems. Even if she doesn't, I feel better for having been kind because that's who AndrewP is. In fact I went for a walk later (W joined me for part of it - which NEVER happens) and when I was alone I physically jumped up and down to stamp out the hope I was feeling. Probably looked silly but there were only squirrels around to see.
The local grapevine is certainly going to be buzzing. I don't think that W has been as discreet about our problems and perhaps OM as she might think. A couple of people stopped us on the street and remarked on us walking together which made W very uncomfortable. I certainly don't underestimate the power of peer pressure. Perhaps OM will hear about this and it will make him nervous enough to make a mistake and put pressure on W - which, especially if I read the calendar correctly would be REALLY bad timing in the next week or so.
While I really appreciate the feedback from my fellow sufferers I'm hoping that perhaps sandi2 or Cadet might see this and give me some brief thoughts on my sitch. I'm summarizing here so that they don't have to go back and read 8 pages of rambling distraught posts.
Before marriage:
Her - rebellious party girl who got into too much party and became an accounting clerk looking for quieter more respectable life. I think that the part ended when she was OW who called the S and bragged about herself. Disgusted with father who was carrying on an A and had fathered a child in it (still an official "secret") I don't think she ever saw herself in the same light when she was an OW.
Me - Quiet lonely nerd looking for love with a good job and a fondness for nice clothes and fit from a prior deep interest in cycling.
26 years pass
2015 - W decides she is unhappy with her life (possible MLC?) and starts going out with female friends, drinking and dreaming of a "better" life. I enable her in this because I recognize she is depressed and want her to be happy. I have become rather codependent in my efforts to help her with her depression. In July she decides to become a WAW.
Jan/Feb 2016 - W is pursued and then seduced by OM (whose wife passed on a few years ago) first into an EA then PA. Keeps it "secret" - tells close friends. Rumours start to spread in our small town and people start taking sides. Many not on her's. I start to suspect an A but have nothing solid and tell myself it's not happening.
9-Mar-2016 - W announces that she is leaving. No reason given. The usual crying, begging, pursuing by me starts along with a hunt for reasons. W announces OM at a party a few days later to many unsympathetic people. More sides being taken. W feels hurt by the rejection of people she likes. Some people support her and encourage her and she starts clinging to them but many are only fair weather friends. I remain oblivious to A.
18-Apr-2016 - I discover evidence of PA and confront W respectfully and politely. W confirms and moves out of MBR of her own volition. I tell her she doesn't have to (I know, I know - it actually has been the right thing). I hear from her that I need to GAL and decide to make abrupt changes. I also am unable to eat (she has only started to suspect that) and have gone impotent (no way she knows that). Some very aggressive pursing by me happens then I discover DB site at the same time as W is going away for several days. I tell her that I love her and that I will give her space to make up her mind and hope that she comes back to me. We sit down and I set out guidelines. No carrying on A on our property and I will stop snooping and I will not do anything "stupid". She describes OM as very interesting in pursuing a bigger R with her but that she doesn't know what she wants. She seems very reluctant to commit to a future with OM and can't commit to me either.
29-Apr-2016 - I tell W that I forgive her for the A to remove any hate I feel but that I am still in a lot of pain. The alien that has possessed her takes over and she turns cold and hard and tells me that she needs to move out. The next morning I prepare a budget for how we would manage two households and email it to her at work. W comes home shaken, apologizes for the pain she's caused and says that she doesn't want to leave now but still doesn't know what she wants. Hugs happen then she goes off and spends the night with OM (says she needed to be alone). Contact with OM becomes more blatant. Probably cake eating happens since Plan B now looks assured.
8-May-2016 - I send a note to W letting her know that her A is still causing me pain even though I have forgiven her. W becomes subdued and the alien who has taken over her brain seems to start to recede.
9-May-2016 on - Relationship suddenly starts to move towards pre A normal with W being friendly and becoming interested in my life again. W spends less time hiding her phone and will often not seem to care if I see what is on the screen which is always innocent when I see it. Rarely she flips the phone up to hide what is on it and I pretend to not notice. I know it's only a few days but the shift has been dramatic. She will occasionally text me about domestic stuff.
So - right now my plan is to continue as I have. Working hard on my own GAL plan and treating W with respect and politeness. I am making extra efforts to validate when she is willing to talk to me without pushing myself into her space either mentally, emotionally or physically. When she starts asking about me I largely say positive things but do admit that GAL is still a work in progress and then deflect the conversation back to her. Part of treating her respectfully is trying to be as "normal" as possible which means still letting her know my schedule and not snooping and doing all the things we did pre BD such as grocery shopping together etc.
Since the A was discovered she has had few opportunities to spend time physically with OM. Even pre BD they would have had few chances to have more than an hour or so together. I am trying to do what I can to keep them apart without being obvious and I believe that OM is quickly becoming more clinging and demanding since he's not getting what he wants now that he may think that the "coast is clear". I hope that she will get frustrated by that (she really does have a low sex drive even though she was very attached to physical contact with me through hugs, hand-holding and cuddling and she has high emotional needs which I have always tried to meet by much validating) and push him away. If he reacts in a non DB way it would make him much less attractive and me as plan B is more attractive. I'm working on preparing myself to move on alone and have made it clear that it is HER decision to stay or leave and that my love is unconditional regardless and am trying to be obvious in that without actually taking visibly concrete steps such as filing for a D.
I've also been following the "likes" that W does on Facebook and have noticed a significant shift since BD from the "I'm a bad girl" posts to being true to yourself and more recently to ones that talk about the importance of family. I'm VERY careful on Facebook to not pursue her there by liking the same things especially these inspirational posts and have been finding this pretty accurate as a "temperature check" on her mood and attitudes. I'm trying to keep my own posts largely the same as they would have been pre BD. It is still rare for W to "like" any of my posts as she often would pre BD but she has to a few in the last couple of days.
Next week I have a Dr's appt that she doesn't know about and that I don't want her to know about (STD testing). Because it means that I will be home an extra day I'm planning on trying the "mysterious" thing and will only tell her that I have an appointment when it will come up during grocery shopping Sunday. I'm figuring her imagination will think it is with a L to work on us splitting and that Plan B is in jeopardy again.
In 2 weeks I am going away to a conference for 3 days and after I leave the house I will send her this note "Even though I may be far away I still hold you close in my heart" with a link to the Sawyer Brown song "All these years" which to me talks to our exact situation. Music is a major influence in our feelings. My hope is that even though she and OM may have plans that this will add to her guilt (which I think is starting to weigh on her more than the fog) and take away some of the thrill. I can't stop her but I feel that I need to continue to make it plain that this is not right with me. If she's still deep in the fog it won't make a difference as I see it.
My question for the experts - this seems to finally be starting to work although my future plans may backfire. W is more interested in me, cheerful around me etc, has noticed the GAL and is starting to be concerned about my wellbeing. I keep stamping out hope when I feel it and keep myself from inviting her back into the MBR etc. I need to wait until she tells me she is ready which probably will still be a while.
I feel that I'm doing this right even though it isn't a path that I've seen a lot of other people here take. I believe though that each sitch is different and even though my W is currently possessed by an evil alien I still know and love the woman trapped within. I'm not good at being subtle and manipulative and despite everything have a huge amount of respect for W as a human being and for the 26 years of great marriage we have had before this. I still love her deeply and want her to have what is best for her whether it is with me or not. One thing that I worry about is that my impotence is fading and I need to guard against the little head over-ruling the big one
Thoughts? 2X4s?
hey
I can tell everything you wrote is all about getting your W back.
You need to make the changes for you.
Your MR as you know ended on bomb day. You lost your W on BD.
The above has been said many times to many people and right now it wont make sense to you. but in time it will. You will look back and get it.
I agree with vise. No one told me that when I first started here, or I didn't have the knowledge to listen. It is true.
If he reacts in a non DB way it would make him much less attractive and me as plan B is more attractive.
So, if you are content to be plan B, why would she ever turn away from Plan A? And if Plan A doesnt work out, why would she not go find Plan A2?
There is a difference between unconditional love and being a doormat.
I've also been following the "likes" that W does on Facebook and have noticed a significant shift since BD from the "I'm a bad girl" posts to being true to yourself and more recently to ones that talk about the importance of family. I'm VERY careful on Facebook to not pursue her there by liking the same things especially these inspirational posts and have been finding this pretty accurate as a "temperature check" on her mood and attitudes. I'm trying to keep my own posts largely the same as they would have been pre BD. It is still rare for W to "like" any of my posts as she often would pre BD but she has to a few in the last couple of days.
This is complete mind-reading. Youre seeing what you want to see.
Why do you think "being true to herself" is equal to her wanting to stay M? I see just as much likelihood that its about abandoning the M. I'd unfollow her.
I will send her this note "Even though I may be far away I still hold you close in my heart" with a link to the Sawyer Brown song "All these years" which to me talks to our exact situation. Music is a major influence in our feelings. My hope is that even though she and OM may have plans that this will add to her guilt (which I think is starting to weigh on her more than the fog) and take away some of the thrill.
So you want her to feel guilty enough to choose you? Or ashamed enough?
That doesnt sound like a recipe for a long term successful relationship.
I can't stop her but I feel that I need to continue to make it plain that this is not right with me. If she's still deep in the fog it won't make a difference as I see it.
And how is sending that note making it clear? To me, it makes it clear that your door is always open and she is free to waltz in and out.
I feel that I'm doing this right even though it isn't a path that I've seen a lot of other people here take. I believe though that each sitch is different and even though my W is currently possessed by an evil alien I still know and love the woman trapped within. I'm not good at being subtle and manipulative and despite everything have a huge amount of respect for W as a human being and for the 26 years of great marriage we have had before this. I still love her deeply and want her to have what is best for her whether it is with me or not.
Do you think you are the only one that feels this way? Everyone that is here is here because the feel the EXACT. SAME. WAY.
This isnt about subtlety or manipulation.
This is about turning you into a person only a fool would leave.
darknes - before you reply again that this is foolish and mind-reading - yes it may be but here are my responses anyway.
So, if you are content to be plan B, why would she ever turn away from Plan A? And if Plan A doesnt work out, why would she not go find Plan A2?
There is a difference between unconditional love and being a doormat.
I don't think she is committed to Plan A. It's better to me to be a Plan B than a Plan nothing. Despite the broken trust it is not permanently broken.
This is complete mind-reading. Youre seeing what you want to see.
Why do you think "being true to herself" is equal to her wanting to stay M? I see just as much likelihood that its about abandoning the M. I'd unfollow her.
Absolutely true - it "is" mind-reading. Even though she's been taken over by alien forces I feel that I still know her better than random people on the internet and I do completely understand that I could be very wrong. But to be that wrong I'd have to believe that she is gaming the system and trying to manipulate me which I don't believe she is doing by pressing "like" on Facebook. Perhaps you "would" unfollow her. I'm not you. To be blunt all I want is for her to be happy. If that happiness comes outside the M then so be it. I will NOT abandon her.
So you want her to feel guilty enough to choose you? Or ashamed enough?
That doesnt sound like a recipe for a long term successful relationship.
I'm coping with the short term right now. Guilt and shame are powerful emotions and if it can cast a shadow over her A with OM without going to the extreme of public exposure then I'm in favour of it. This is also about reminding her of who we are as a couple and a family. Families stick together through thick and thin and I'm sticking by her.
And how is sending that note making it clear? To me, it makes it clear that your door is always open and she is free to waltz in and out.
My door is still open for her to waltz in. Waltzing out again would lock it but that's a future that hasn't happened yet and perhaps would not. Your replies seem to indicate that you think that she's fully committed to the WW life. I don't believe that to be the case.
Do you think you are the only one that feels this way? Everyone that is here is here because the feel the EXACT. SAME. WAY.
This isnt about subtlety or manipulation.
This is about turning you into a person only a fool would leave.
Absolutely. But it is also about loving and caring for someone that I hold dear and not abandoning her. To me, a person who loves you even when you make a mistake, even if you refuse to see that mistake, is very much a person who only a fool would leave. I feel that she hasn't abandoned me despite making a mistake that caused her to be absent for a while. This is also a fundamental part of who the real AndrewP is. Not a doormat but a solid and firm defender and supporter.
hey
I can tell everything you wrote is all about getting your W back.
You need to make the changes for you.
Your MR as you know ended on bomb day. You lost your W on BD.
The above has been said many times to many people and right now it wont make sense to you. but in time it will. You will look back and get it.
Actually no. Much of what I wrote is about supporting my W no matter what decision she makes. That doesn't make me a doormat because I am also taking even more steps to support myself.
I am making changes for me - the changes that I need to make to stand on my own in case she takes the path out of the open door which are also the changes needed to be a strong member of a new MR if such a thing happens.
My OLD MR "did" end on BD but I did not lose my W. But she is still here as am I and she is rapidly becoming more present in what may become our new MR.
That is why I've posted this note. I want to hear from people who have either been successful in DB or are one of those who have guided people on these forums through that success. Despite how dark it may look at time I will NOT abandon my W and hope to find the path to a new MR which is why I'm asking for help from those people now that I see glimmers of light.
I don't like to say this vise82 - but from your signature you were not one of those successful people so I am not going to follow your advice.
Hey
We are not saying abandoning her, we are saying let her do what she need to do. You can love he from a distance. You think you have it figured out but you are the one that had a part in this break up of your MR.
All we are asking is to take a step back do what is best for you. She does not want you right now. And how she is treating you is not how you should be treated.
There is no room in you MR for three people.
Your can not work on your MR with three people in it.
It is not your job to make her happy.
You need to do what is best for you. Your too attached, meaning your emotions go up and down based on your interactions with W.
You need to back off let her do what she need to do and you get into a place where what ever she does you are not gong to be sad or happy.
Just be carful you are not making up rules and breaking other rules because you think your sitch is different.
That is why I've posted this note. I want to hear from people who have either been successful in DB or are one of those who have guided people on these forums through that success. Despite how dark it may look at time I will NOT abandon my W and hope to find the path to a new MR which is why I'm asking for help from those people now that I see glimmers of light.
I don't like to say this vise82 - but from your signature you were not one of those successful people so I am not going to follow your advice.
Andrew,
I think there's a fallacy in your thinking, which was in my thinking originally as well. Just because something "worked" for another poster does NOT mean it is going to work for you. You can completely become that other person and in the end your WW would still not come back to your M. Why? Because it is your WW, not his WW.
I thought about this and it's why we have these sites and competing theories on how to "save marriages." Because the dynamics in every marriage is very different, there's no cookbook that has the recipe for "winning." You can do all the right DB steps (or steps from other, competing "nicing" theories), but in the end your M could still result in D. What worked for one woman may not work for your W. There's no silver bullet, fool-proof way to replicate someone else's success. A lot depends on your particular dynamics with your W.
I know, because I was like you looking for the "right" way to get my W back. But now I realize I can do all the right steps yet she could still walk away. Sorry, but that's the truth.
All we are asking is to take a step back do what is best for you. She does not want you right now. And how she is treating you is not how you should be treated.
vise82 - How do you KNOW that she doesn't want me right now? Did you not read my post where she is becoming more engaged in our R and that she is treating me better than she has for some time?
I'm here on the ground with the light starting to shine and I'm looking for guidance on how to follow it, not the same old newbie "GAL" and "give her space" stuff. I've DONE that and now it may have worked and we may be moving forward.
Andrew,
I think there's a fallacy in your thinking, which was in my thinking originally as well. Just because something "worked" for another poster does NOT mean it is going to work for you. You can completely become that other person and in the end your WW would still not come back to your M. Why? Because it is your WW, not his WW.
I thought about this and it's why we have these sites and competing theories on how to "save marriages." Because the dynamics in every marriage is very different, there's no cookbook that has the recipe for "winning." You can do all the right DB steps (or steps from other, competing "nicing" theories), but in the end your M could still result in D. What worked for one woman may not work for your W. There's no silver bullet, fool-proof way to replicate someone else's success. A lot depends on your particular dynamics with your W.
I know, because I was like you looking for the "right" way to get my W back. But now I realize I can do all the right steps yet she could still walk away. Sorry, but that's the truth.
Actually CWOL - I don't want YOUR wife back - I'd rather have my own
C'mon guys - I'm begging for help here from successful people. She's starting to walk back towards me and I don't want to bugger this up. I can walk this path alone but I came here to find fellow companions on this road who have found the exit sign. She may still walk away and I've accepted that as one of the exits.
What has she done to show you that she wants to reconcile with you? Is OM out of the picture?
What has she done to show you that she wants to reconcile with you? Is OM out of the picture?
No - I'm assuming that OM is still around but fading. I'm expecting it to be a while before that is fully over and it may spark up again when I go away to my conference. She has been getting more involved in the things we used to do together. Simple things like having dinner together, talking about our days, sharing and laughing. She's also started talking about the future, one that would mean that we are together although she hasn't gone as far as to say that.
In the heat of the A and her walk away from me she would go out of her way to avoid me, now she's going out of her way to engage me. I'm being careful, not pushing it and immediately giving her space as soon as I see her tense up. I'm not asking her for anything nor am I making any demands, just living my life and being an ear that listens and a heart that shares in what happiness she may be experiencing. At the same time I'm also living my life separately and making it clear both to her and to myself that I can do that.
This isn't reconciliation and may not be - but by thunder, it's progress in the right direction.
Thanks for that update. It's helpful to get a better picture of what things look like for your relationship at this time.
I think you should continue to do what you have been doing. Focusing on yourself. Preparing for a future possibly without her as well as being hopeful to that things may work out.
However, as long as OM is in the picture, you are not top priority. Once your wife has made the decision to end things with him, she may then make the decision to try again with you... in the meantime, she could just be saying things to keep you hanging on. A backup plan. Only time will tell. She could be genuine and want to work things out with you - some day. There's no way to know what her intent is behind her words at this time. For now, they are just words as she hasn't DONE anything to show you she wants to be with you. But as I said, as long as OM is around/in her mind... it's not that time.
Thanks for that update. It's helpful to get a better picture of what things look like for your relationship at this time.
I think you should continue to do what you have been doing. Focusing on yourself. Preparing for a future possibly without her as well as being hopeful to that things may work out.
However, as long as OM is in the picture, you are not top priority. Once your wife has made the decision to end things with him, she may then make the decision to try again with you... in the meantime, she could just be saying things to keep you hanging on. A backup plan. Only time will tell. She could be genuine and want to work things out with you - some day. There's no way to know what her intent is behind her words at this time. For now, they are just words as she hasn't DONE anything to show you she wants to be with you. But as I said, as long as OM is around/in her mind... it's not that time.
Thank you - those are the sort of words I was hoping to hear. A bit of a reality check plus some encouragement. I have to constantly watch myself from getting too enthusiastic when I get a fresh crumb. Unfortunately my update post that summarized the entire sitch got buried a page or two back behind some posts from well meaning people giving me what seemed to be advice to give up.
darknes - before you reply again that this is foolish and mind-reading - yes it may be but here are my responses anyway.
So, if you are content to be plan B, why would she ever turn away from Plan A? And if Plan A doesnt work out, why would she not go find Plan A2?
There is a difference between unconditional love and being a doormat.
I don't think she is committed to Plan A. It's better to me to be a Plan B than a Plan nothing. Despite the broken trust it is not permanently broken.
I think you are misunderstanding me. Plan B IS plan nothing. Plan B means she will come and go as she pleases, dropping you little crumbs to keep you attached now and then. Im not suggesting you give up or abandon your W. Im saying that you stop being her safety net.
YOU ARE THE PRIZE, not the fall back option.
If theres always a safety net there, what incentive does she have to be faithful or loyal or trustworthy?
This is complete mind-reading. Youre seeing what you want to see.
Why do you think "being true to herself" is equal to her wanting to stay M? I see just as much likelihood that its about abandoning the M. I'd unfollow her.
Absolutely true - it "is" mind-reading. Even though she's been taken over by alien forces I feel that I still know her better than random people on the internet and I do completely understand that I could be very wrong. But to be that wrong I'd have to believe that she is gaming the system and trying to manipulate me which I don't believe she is doing by pressing "like" on Facebook. Perhaps you "would" unfollow her. I'm not you. To be blunt all I want is for her to be happy. If that happiness comes outside the M then so be it. I will NOT abandon her.
Gaming the system...like you are? Only "liking" certain things. Being "VERY CAREFUL' not to like certain things. Of course, I dont know her, but the persona on social media and the actually person can be very different.
Again, Im not suggesting you "abandon" her. Im suggesting that in order for you to be grounded, you need to stop paying such close attention to everything she does on FB.
We all want our spouses to be happy. But to be blunt, my happiness is more important to me than anyone else's (except my children's).
So you want her to feel guilty enough to choose you? Or ashamed enough?
That doesnt sound like a recipe for a long term successful relationship.
I'm coping with the short term right now. Guilt and shame are powerful emotions and if it can cast a shadow over her A with OM without going to the extreme of public exposure then I'm in favour of it. This is also about reminding her of who we are as a couple and a family. Families stick together through thick and thin and I'm sticking by her.
Guilt and shame are not great ways to "win" someone back. Be the grand prize...not the consolation prize. You want her to come back because she WANTS to come back...not because she has to.
And how is sending that note making it clear? To me, it makes it clear that your door is always open and she is free to waltz in and out.
My door is still open for her to waltz in. Waltzing out again would lock it but that's a future that hasn't happened yet and perhaps would not. Your replies seem to indicate that you think that she's fully committed to the WW life. I don't believe that to be the case.
So this is a one time pass? You are setting a boundary on next time? You dont even know if shes done with this OM. How long are you willing to leave this door open to be in an open marriage?
I dont know if she is committed to being in a WW life forever. But for now, she certainly doesnt sound committed to being your wife...
Do you think you are the only one that feels this way? Everyone that is here is here because the feel the EXACT. SAME. WAY.
This isnt about subtlety or manipulation.
This is about turning you into a person only a fool would leave.
Absolutely. But it is also about loving and caring for someone that I hold dear and not abandoning her. To me, a person who loves you even when you make a mistake, even if you refuse to see that mistake, is very much a person who only a fool would leave. I feel that she hasn't abandoned me despite making a mistake that caused her to be absent for a while. This is also a fundamental part of who the real AndrewP is. Not a doormat but a solid and firm defender and supporter.
Look, if she was fully back in your marriage, I would agree whole heartedly. You will not find a bigger proponent of marriage on this site than I am. I am NOT suggesting you file for divorce or anything of the sort. I AM suggesting that you take your focus off of every little thing she does and become the best you possible. For you. Send caring messages....but to people that care about you....your kids, your friends. THAT is being a person only a fool would leave. I think doing that kind of thing for your wife while she is in an affair is co-dependent.
As to your comments about "success", any one of us can DB "perfectly" and still not have our spouse turn back to us. We cant control them. I believe that by going through the DB process and understanding the mindset, you are set up for future success regardless of partner. I believe being "successful" isnt defined by your future marital state.
darknes - thank you for taking the time on my thread to throw all of the 2X4s at me. I will take a close look at each and every one of them and give them a lot of thought.
For my crisis yesterday I'm grateful though for dream's calming reality check - I think that was closer to the message I needed then.
I had a good visit over breakfast with W this morning. We laughed and planned our day which includes a baby shower for my much younger youngest brother. I think she's rediscovering the man that I was and am becoming again as am I. This is despite the fact that I am sure that she had dinner with OM last night - perhaps more? I don't really care right now despite the fresh hurt. She didn't say, I didn't ask.
I read your summary post, well, I skimmed it cuz I've been following your story from the start. But here's my response from your summary post if you want it:
There's nothing there that says your wife wants to work things out with you. If anything, she has taken her affair deeper underground to make it easier to hide from you. Because, of course, she wants you to sit around and wait for her to maybe come back. She's been friendly with you. I wouldn't be at all surprised if she has something planned with OM for while you are out of town for a few days. I don't think sending her a note will help your marriage at all. She knows what she is doing, any added guilt from you, will push her to continue down the path she is on.
I agree with what the other posters have said. I expressed it in a different way. I think your best chance to work things out is to keep doing what you've been doing. It's still too soon to think she wants to work things out. From what I can tell, you're in her friend zone.
Thanks again dream - I really appreciate your thoughtful and reasoned comments. While I don't like to think that she's being deliberately manipulative I certainly can't honestly say that it isn't possible. And yes - I'm positive that she hasn't decided on whether she is wanting to work things out or not. She is actually a quite honourable person (no commentary please) and moved out of the MBR of her own accord. I expect that she will only come back if she decides to start working things out. If she decided to move on she would be pushing me away and looking for an apartment or moving in with OM. Right now she's having lots of cake provided by both me and OM who I'm sure is having problems with her being on both sides of the fence on this. His easy conquest is turning out to be nothing like that at all. I know that OM isn't my issue or concern but his presence is interfering with my chances for happiness while he is an option for W. I do honestly think that to W that OM is just a fling and not a serious alternative. She seemed quite frightened on BD when I asked what their plans were and said that OM wanted more but that she didn't think that was what she wanted. At the time she expected me to throw her out and that would have been her safety net.
Yes - I do expect that she has something planned with OM while I'm out of town. She's actually been more blatant about the A rather than taking it deeper underground. Again last night just like last Friday she left me a note saying she was "out for dinner". This morning she mentioned the town she was in - which she would have no reason to go that far unless it was to see OM. I don't believe it was an accidental slip. I really hope she doesn't get to the point of flaunting it at me because that would escalate my reaction and that lack of respect would push me to take a stronger stand and demand that she choose. I honestly don't know which choice she would make. Her monthly cycle is due right in the middle of my trip though and she NEVER puts out during that - even on our honeymoon so that may give OM some more frustration.
So - the plan right now is to as you suggest continue on as I have. She's noticing the GAL and has made a number of positive comments as have many people in the community around us which cannot be discounted. W is very proud of her standing in the community and like all of us is subject to peer pressure. When I go away to my conference I'll go dark even though it is quite possible that she won't notice. I'm returning on a Friday evening and if she is here will be a very telling factor. My money is on her not being here. Going forward I'll also be working more on showing and working on the reality of starting to move on which I think is a major fear of her's. She is very possessive of what is "her's" and I've seen a few flickers of it recently when I mention different women who I'm friends with on Facebook - the latest being a 72 year old former co-worker. She's also gone after people that she thinks have treated me badly - which sadly is one of the reasons we don't socialize with one of my brothers after his wife made some fairly innocent comments about me vs him about 12 years ago and W vigorously took offence.
Along with many other people in my sitch I really really wish that there was some way of shaking her awake but from everything I've read and seen it "can't" be me that does it and it can't be done in a way that could be traced to me. My current favourite fantasy is to send hookers to OM and have him busted in a police raid
I may send some flowers to a female friend of my own age who has been an amazing support to me through this. She has me write to her every day to keep her up to date on what is happening. There's no romantic interest in either direction but she's a really nice person who has unexpectedly turned into a great help and comfort. I also have a mysterious appointment next Thursday that she may think is with a L and me covering my options. She knows that I typically always have a fall-back plan.
After today we'll have gone through all of the important family events that were planned before BD where I felt we should be there as a couple and I'll work on pulling away more even though it's hard.
Thanks again dream - I really appreciate your comments.
Before the 2X4s come raining in, I've re-thought the last bit. If I send flowers to a friend I need to do that because it is something I want to do, not to play games or score points.
Some possibly interesting developments happening though. I'm waiting to see what might be up. Probably nothing - updates as appropriate.
Well - this has been an interesting couple of days.
Yesterday we went to the baby shower for my youngest brother's wife. I stood in the shed with the men and held a beer (only had 1) while W was in the house where the actual party was. Afterwards on the way back I talked a bit about family and how important they were and I think W realized that all of these people who she quite likes would be out of her life if she left. When we got home W suddenly decided that she was going out with a FF for dinner. I did my ironing and then went out to a movie on my own. W actually had to push her friend a bit because she was reluctant initially. I think she's starting to wear out her welcome a bit. I'm expecting that she needed some validating of whatever she was thinking. Oddly she sent me numerous texts as she was heading out that indicated that they were going to the town an hour away where OM lives. My imagination ran rampant on why she felt it necessary to tell me this but it just could have been where her friend wanted to go. We both arrived home at 11:00pm (she left for "dinner" at 5:30pm) and went to our separate beds.
This morning (Sunday) is typically when we go out for breakfast together pre BD and still go grocery shopping together. Breakfast was at home instead and separate but we still chatted. The topic of a movie that W has wanted to see but she didn't think that I did came up and she also mentioned separately that she was feeling like just ignoring the usual list and going off for the day. I protested that I never said that I didn't want to see the movie and that I was actually quite interested in it (true). I took the chance and suggested that we blow the day off together and go see the movie (Jungle Book - quite fab). Surprisingly she agreed and we started off on a pleasant drive up to first go clothes shopping for her (she needed some new tops) which was already on the agenda and then to the movie. On the drive up since this was also to the town where OM lives (the local major centre) she mentioned in passing about some routes she uses. I quickly requested that she change the subject - which she did presumably not realizing what she had been in fact talking about. She also brought up some things that she wants to do to the room she is in including new sheets and some repairs. Again I said that I didn't want to talk about that and the conversation shifted. I wasn't saying "no" just that I didn't want to talk about it. Not that it was an awkward drive - we chatted about lots of things and had a pleasant time. There was even a small bit of R talk which I tried to keep to a minimum and let her lead.
Clothes shopping was fine and she bought some tops (using family money) that she can use at work and leisure. She even modeled a few for me to get my opinion which was universally positive (she has quite good taste in clothes). Other women in the store remarked how unusual it was for a man to take an interest to which I replied that I always like looking at W. This is what I would normally say and maybe earned me brownie points too.
We then stopped for a light lunch and she mentioned about wanting to talk to her brother. I took a chance since her brother had had an A a few years ago and he and his wife patched things up and asked if it was to talk about our sitch and she said yes. Hallelujah! That is one person that she respects who can give her some practical advice that she will probably listen to. I made sure not to press her on when she would actually talk to him though or to follow that line farther.
The movie was good. Sitting next to W for multiple hours was difficult. I accidentally reached out and touched her leg like I would have in times past and she tensed up. I kept my hands to myself then. I could also feel the old codependency building up and tried to stamp it down as hard as I could before I made a serious mistake by making some sort of grand gesture.
One the drive home we again had a pleasant visit and had a bit of R talk. Some of the R talk was around how I was doing and my personal fictional hero Don Quixote (more than just windmills). She started making comments about how much better I must be feeling since I was walking and losing weight and was surprised when I added this to the "I don't want to talk about it" list. I also talked about our elderly cat about how it will be tough making the choices about him she commented that she cared deeply for my cat as well. I commented (all very polite) back that I need to consider that I may be on my own and that I had to stand on my own two feet and deal with things.
So - I continue to believe that we might be on the cusp of a turn-around - or perhaps not.
Sticking to the plan which will sustain me no mater where this path leads.
Journaling.
Over the last few days W has become more and more her old self. We talk, visit, laugh. Last night she moved in ways that indicated that she wanted a hug - perhaps just old habits? I pretended to not notice both because I am keeping physical distance and because it may not be real.
Last night as we visited and showed each other interesting things we saw on social media on our tablets she got a number of texts - not sure from whom. After each of them she seemed either happy or indifferent. I believe she had a separate alert for OM and none of them had that ring. Of course she could have changed that. After each text she would immediately lock her phone and put it either in her pocket or face down on the table. It was still a nice evening. We talked about our plans for the next few days including the long weekend we have coming here in Canada. Everything she mentioned involves being around home. After I went to bed I heard her still in the kitchen occasionally laughing at something or other - my jealousy said that it was messages from OM but I have no way of knowing.
So - is she playing games to keep me interested and around as a Plan B as WW can do? Has there been a turnaround? I need to follow my head and be cynical but I can still enjoy it while following "the plan".
So - continue to enjoy the sunshine, validate her while not getting wrapped up in her. Live my own life and keep my distance (getting harder on the distance thing). Next week when I'm gone to my conference I'll go dark. I'll Facebook "check in" to the hotel/spa where the conference is so that everyone will know that I'm out of town (putting lots of eyes on her movements) but will not initiate any messages to her until I get home on Friday evening. It will be very telling if she is here that day or not.
Today I'm popping out from work to get a fresh haircut and pick up some aftershave that a FF who has been a fabulous support to me has suggested. I'm going to pay cash so that it can be all "mysterious". I also need to call the credit card company to see if I can set a daily transaction limit on her card but not mine. If it can only be done on both then I'll have to set it higher.
Thank you everyone for your support and the frequent 2X4s. Wish me luck - I'm going to need it.
So - is she playing games to keep me interested and around as a Plan B as WW can do?
- Yes.
Has there been a turnaround?
- No.
Right now she has the best of both worlds. Romance with OM and friendship with you.
dream - I suspect you are correct which is why I'm not trusting this. On the other hand she's not seeming to be making any time for OM - at least I can't figure out how she could be. In the mean-time I'm treating it as a positive development since we can't reconcile if she's not talking to me.
In my hopes and dreams I think that she's looking for a path out of this mess but I don't know where that path might lead her. As I'm always rightly cautioned though that's "mind-reading" and there is no way that I can "know" what she's thinking.
Interesting minor development. She texted me looking for where we store our tax stuff in the cloud looking for a document she could use as proof of income. She'd talked last weekend about getting her own credit card which I didn't react to (it's actually a pretty good idea). Perhaps that's what she's up to? Perhaps doing something else that she would need some credit for? I only answered the question asked and didn't ask why like I would have previously. I had separated out her tax stuff and locked down access to mine a few weeks ago so it wasn't a problem. We'll see if she talks about it when she gets home - I'm not going to ask. She's done some weird and paranoid things I think based on "advice" from "friends" like carrying her passport around with her everywhere which also makes sense if she thought that I'd throw her out and lock the door.
I do occasionally wonder if she's found me here. There's nothing I've posted that I would be ashamed to say to her face although some if might be awkward. I'm 90% sure that she hasn't but there is that 10% for doubt.
Just a quick note - I just got off the phone with the credit card company. The daily cash advance limit is tiny but the spending limit has to be the same for W and I. To cancel her card is a phone call and is done immediately.
I don't actually expect W to do something stupid but you never know and at least the damage can be minimized if I can catch it in time.