A Few Questions from a Newbie - thread 2

I was asked to start a new thread.
Here is a link to my old thread - http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2597762&page=11

Here is an update to the awesome and supportive DB peeps who have been helping me through this darkness.
W had called cell company on Wednesday and had my account manager privilege removed and made herself account manager. She did not tell me this - I was alerted via text and email. This put me on high alert. Why did she do that? I wanted to ask, but knew it would lead to an argument. I have had two major meltdowns and made myself keep this information to myself.
Friday night W was working overnight shift. I was taking the kitchen trash out to bin in the garage and some shopping bags catch my eye (like my wife cleaned out her car before leaving for work). I am being snoopy and breaking the snoop rule. Inside one of the bags is an envelope from a local jewelry store with a handwritten note addressing W - "(W name)I WILL BE buying you more of these! Love, Tom".
I had a gut feeling there was OM and here was the evidence.
At that moment I am angry, sad, hurt and scared. She had said there was no one else. She was just unhappy.
Well, here was evidence to the contrary. I then call cell phone company and talk my way into becoming account manager (I had to call twice as first guy said I needed her social security number AND account password - I only had social). I call back and the female let me have the password after giving the SSN.
I then log on and I quickly start scanning the call and text logs. I know that W is going to get same text and emails that I did. And sure enough within a minute she is texting me asking why I took her off as account manager and added myself. I replied because I have always taken care of the cell bill. I see there is an option to save the logs and save them to my computer. I was only able to save August and July before she had called cell company and revoked my account privileges again!
But, I saw what I needed to see. W was sending and receiving texts, photo/vid files at an outstanding rate. Over 10,500 texts between July and August. At all hours of the day and night. Like literally every minute to 5 minutes. I have no idea how either of them were able to sleep for those two months. 95% of the texts were between those two. With texts from me, my D, MIL, SIL, and BIL in between.
I note every number that I did not recognize. I did reverse searches on them. Some of them I knew the people and relationship to W, just didn't have their number saved to my phone. No threats.
A lot of the cell numbers I could not reverse search and have no idea who they are. Two of the numbers were land lines to lawyers and one of the cell phone numbers was one of these lawyers (realized after looking at lawyers website).
So, I stayed up all night doing detective work. No sleep. And I confront her with the envelope and text/call records that I printed from the files I saved before being booted.
She denies an affair. Says they are just friends. I say buying jewelry and the "Love, Tom" note crosses the friend zone.

Also crossing the friend zone are the +10K text messages. Messages she sent and received while I was in the same room as her. While she was shopping with my D:13, while at work, when she should be sleeping, when driving to and from work, when she was in shower getting ready for work (pic/vid files). Totally inappropriate and obviously a EA at minimum.
She denies and I get angry. I am not stupid. You are ruining not just our R, but our family. You are hurting the kids and being selfish. You are not the person I married. The person I married is dead to me. You wouldn't give our R a chance, didn't want to work on this, told me we are done and now I see why. You have OM.
My kids are now awake because I'm yelling these things at her. Was not a good moment. I can't stop. She shows little to no emotion and will not take responsibility and won't admit to affair. This makes me more upset because I know I'm being lied to. It doesn't add up. She says he is just trying to help me because he knows I'm sad and I'm leaving you.
I say BS! He is not just a friend. Friends don't buy married women jewelry with a love note message and the number of texts was beyond friends. I have never received 175 messages from W in one day. The log was like that everyday for the two months I had access to.

I wanted to know how long ago this started. She wouldn't tell me. I wanted to see her phone. She wouldn't let me. I take it out of her hands, but don't know her phone unlock passcode. I end up giving it back after trying a hundred times to unlock it. It was just ugly.
In the end, she packed some of her clothes and left for her mom's house - saying we are getting divorced and we are done. My poor kids were there to witness. I didn't put hands on her or threaten her physically (never have, never would hurt a woman that way), but other than that I handled the whole confrontation about as bad as I could have. I thought she would get emotional and admit to being wrong. Nope. Denial.

I know Tom. Just like an acquaintance, not as a friend. He is married. I get a hold of his wife via facebook. Send her a picture of the envelope. She is aware of the affair. I told her I have phone and text logs and that there are +10k texts from July and August. Told her I can email the files. She doesn't want them she says. They are already filing for divorce. She says she doesn't want to see them as they will just bring up more negative feelings and she is trying to heal.
She tells me she found sexting and emails at the beginning of June. She says sorry for not telling you. She says that she thinks it was going on before June, but had no proof.
So, my W has been having an affair for at least 2 months. I go back and think about me just finding out she was not in love with me in the middle of July. Out of the blue. Now it makes more sense, but is no less hurtful.

W is currently saying we are getting divorced. She is willing to not use lawyers, wants me to keep the house, wants to do 50/50 custody, no child support (we make just about equal amount of money), split assets. I will struggle to afford the house on my own, but I want my kids to remain here.
Daughter was with her today and daughter tells me W is looking for apartment now and is looking to buy a house in spring. Currently staying at her mom's.
I don't know if I could trust this woman again. The way she treated me for the last 5 weeks, plus the affair, plus not owning what she has done. I did not bother confronting her with the additional information that Tom's soon to be ex provided. I don't want to fight her anymore. And yet, another part of me still doesn't want a D. I always tell my son to never give up when he wrestles and my daughter when she runs long distance track. Never give up. Give it your all. But, here I am only after 5 weeks, feeling like giving up.

You are angry Eric and you have every right to be angry. It's good to be angry, ok, after the angry will come all kinds of mixed up feelings.

It's time to get a good L, keep your cards close to your chest. This is very important to you, find an L you can work with and you trust. From now on you will be the more stable parent for your children. This is vital to their well being they are going to need you as their rock whilst WW goes into cheese less tunnels.

I am glad you have iNTEL. It's important to know this and the earliest date these texts started. You may want a summary of the number of texts 50 in Jan, 100 in Feb etc. this will give you a pattern. The note is important too. In my book Intel is not the same as snooping. Now you know the position you know it, and that's vital.

It's time to cut the Gordian knot of finance, do you pay the phone bill? You are going to need your resources for survival. This is very hard stuff to know Eric, I wish I could reach you and give you a hug.

WW must have been feeling guilty to try to change the account manager. It's very clumsy though as is leaving the note. Almost as if she is forcing the issue to bring matters to a head. It may be her playbook.

She won't want to own that which she has done, even though you have evidence. You know the truth now, and at this point Eric are the leader.

Please read Sandis threads on the wayward wife Eric, you will get insight into WW.

Keep posting

V

Eric I am sorry this is what your situation has become. Be there for your kids, they must be scared. Be well

You ok Eric?

V

Vanilla - we have begun discussions on divorce. 6 weeks after getting the bomb drop. She has OM and I am not in her future plans. She has been living at her mom's and told my D:13 looking for an apartment, house to rent, or a house to buy.
She wants me to keep the house (I'm so glad I did not leave the house when she asked me to - now I have the opportunity to buy her out and stay here with the kids. It is a small town that we all love with a great school.
During one of my now 3 meltdown/blowouts, I suggested to her that she leave since she is the unhappy one. I told her that I am happy here, I love her, my kids, my house, the town, the school. It was the only time she cried in front of me during this nightmare.
Although she told D:13 she is looking for a place to live, I believe she is going to move in with OM in the bigger city 10 miles away from our town. I think she is being agreeable so that she can get the papers signed and get to him without feeling as guilty.
I don't think I can trust her now and want to take her up on her offer. She is offering to let me buy her out (about $70K), 50/50 custody (with me having them 3 days one week and 4 days the next week), no child support, split assets, split savings. She said we can do this without lawyers. I suggested a mediator and she says we don't need a mediator either. We have been texting each other and working the terms over. It is going smoothly. In my state, we can file without lawyers. I think if I fight her or delay what she wants, she will end up lawyering up and try to take me to the cleaners. OM is coaching her and is currently going through a divorce as well.
So, I am going to let her have the D and I am going to move on. I don't think I can trust her anymore if we were to reconcile (she doesn't want to at this point, but even if she wanted to do so in the future - I don't think I could trust her). She has not admitted to the affair even though all the evidence is there. She maintains he is just a friend and he is supporting her. LOL. I don't buy it, but like I said, I don't want to fight it anymore. The two of them are both cheaters and I believe they are meant for each other.
I have the opportunity to be the rock for my kids, so I am taking it.

Eric,

You can still take advice, privately for you. Don't guess, or trap yourself into a deal you may regret.

This is between you and L and usually the first interview is free (in the UK), the reason is normally because of professional liability. I do the same thing with tax clients. It's universal and the same in the U.S. So you can visit several Ls or ring them, test a couple of legal views. I believe this is urgent and important. I can emphasise this is in your best interest.

Remember 100% of what they say and 50% of what they do. If you believe you have been guided well so far and been given advice that has impacted your sitch then follow through.

If the L says ok sounds good then you have confirmed your view if not then something is learned. It's a no lose deal, as you are emotional at the moment this is essential grounding. There are dads here who will also advise you. Remember you may need eventually to be the main parent for your kids and this is very important.

Keep your own counsel Eric.

This is something I recommend strongly. I don't think you will regret it. It is much more important than WW and OM, this is your kids.

I will keep checking in.

V

Eric

Get a lawyer. W has shown you for months that she can't be trusted so why would you trust her in a divorce? At the very least go see one for an initial consultation and have them review the agreement before you sign it. She doesn't need to know. Just my 2 cents.

I agree that it's best to at least CONSULT a lawyer. Maybe YOU should be getting child support! Knowledge is power. At least it can possibly take some fear of the actual result away.

I have some other thoughts on the rest of your posts but I don't have time to post right now.

Azzork - I would love to hear what you have to say. Advise away please!
In my state, you can file without a lawyer. We have agreed to go this direction. I have the papers in front of me now. It is a stack!
She wants the divorce, has moved in with her mom, the kids have started school this week, and I have been taking care of them. She will have them tomorrow at her mom's for her first overnight with them. I am going to go to work and then out for the night.

ERIC! I forgot to come and post yesterday. I will later this AM.

But for now, why the heck would you NOT consult a lawyer on this. You don't have to USE one. But you should know your rights. You already know she's talked to at least 2. Do you REALLY think she has YOUR best interest in mind right now??

So, I am going to let her have the D and I am going to move on.
Im not sure I saw this anywhere, so Ill ask you here. What are your goals Eric? Its been what, 6 weeks since BD and youre already ready to give up on your marriage? Ultimately, its your decision on what to do. But in my opinion "moving on" means closing the door on this relationship, and from the tenor of your posts, that doesnt seem what you want to do? My advice is to let her live her life with her decisions now. In the meantime, you take this time to grow into the person you want to become. Then, when youre ready, you can worry about closing the door on this. There are many stories of WWs coming back 6 weeks, 6 months or 6 years later. Are you ready to take that off of the table?

I don't think I can trust her anymore if we were to reconcile (she doesn't want to at this point, but even if she wanted to do so in the future - I don't think I could trust her). Of course you cant trust her right NOW. I say dont worry about this until youre in a position to possibly R.

She has not admitted to the affair even though all the evidence is there. She maintains he is just a friend and he is supporting her. LOL.
Why would she admit it right now? You are going along with everything shes suggesting. You arent even talking to a lawyer to see if shes screwing YOU. My W admitted the affair the minute after the agreements were signed. You know what you know, why are you ignoring it?

I don't buy it, but like I said, I don't want to fight it anymore. The two of them are both cheaters and I believe they are meant for each other.
Nobody is telling you to fight the D. If youre in quicksand, what does fighting do? You cant change her decisions through your words right now. But, you should fight for yourself and for your kids. Make sure you are happy with any deal you do sign...Nobody else is looking out for you.

I have the opportunity to be the rock for my kids, so I am taking it.
It SOUNDS like you are getting tossed around in her craziness right now. Let her waves crash around you as you stand as the rock for your family. I dont see how throwing in the towel on your relationship proves to them that you are the rock.

Azzork, what you are saying makes sense. I just am reporting what I feel. I feel like it is over. I feel like I can not be happy living like this...in limbo waiting for her. I feel she is making a huge mistake and she will soon realize it. I feel like if she told me today that she wants me back I would not want her back. I can't trust that what she says. I can't trust her. I don't want her back after she has caused me this much pain. I know the kids' best interest is for us to stay together. Financially, it is best to jot get a divorce. But, for me personally, I feel like I am killing myself slowly with stress, pain, and fear.
She said she wants a divorce. I told her I accept that and let's get it going. I keep asking her when we can sit down and work out the final details. She keeps putting it off. I don't know what she is up to. OM is also getting a divorce right now. I wonder if their affair is on the rocks already or of she is getting ready to drop another bomb - like serving me papers that are not 50/50 custodsy, include child support, or if she is now trying to figure out how to get me out of the house and her back in.
She did message me the other day and asked me why she had to be the one to leave the house n I told her again that I thought it best for the kids that I have them in the house for stability while she searches for happiness.

Eric,
I've been in this situation some 10 months now. Although we are still living in the same house and there is no AP in my situation maybe WAW/MLC the stress pain and fear took months to start to subside but it does get some what easier to handle. Just keep going.

Originally Posted By: EricT

I just am reporting what I feel. I feel like it is over. I feel like I can not be happy living like this...in limbo waiting for her. I feel she is making a huge mistake and she will soon realize it. I feel like if she told me today that she wants me back I would not want her back. I can't trust that what she says. I can't trust her. I don't want her back after she has caused me this much pain. I know the kids' best interest is for us to stay together. Financially, it is best to jot get a divorce. But, for me personally, I feel like I am killing myself slowly with stress, pain, and fear.

All those things in blue are perfectly valid. I certainly understand WHY you feel that way. They are certainly reasonable feelings to be had.

The things I put in bold are your conclusions based on those feelings.

Here's the thing: FEELINGS ARENT PERMANENT. Do you always feel hungry? or sick? or tired? or happy? So I think you are better off not taking permanent stances based on these feelings. Thats like building a house on a foundation of sand, in my opinion.

Originally Posted By: EricT

She said she wants a divorce. I told her I accept that and let's get it going. I keep asking her when we can sit down and work out the final details.

Im confused. Does she want the divorce or do you? I thought you DIDNT want to be divorced. If so, why are you pushing to make it happen?

Originally Posted By: EricT

She keeps putting it off. I don't know what she is up to. OM is also getting a divorce right now. I wonder if their affair is on the rocks already or of she is getting ready to drop another bomb - like serving me papers that are not 50/50 custodsy, include child support, or if she is now trying to figure out how to get me out of the house and her back in.

As difficult as it is, theres no benefit to mind reading here. Theres any number of reasons that she could be putting this off. Youll never know. All guessing does is play tricks on your head and cause you to fill in blanks however you see fit.

Originally Posted By: EricT

She did message me the other day and asked me why she had to be the one to leave the house n I told her again that I thought it best for the kids that I have them in the house for stability while she searches for happiness.

No! She has to leave because she doesnt want to be married any more. Why should you leave - you are trying to keep your marriage together, right? Its not that its best for the kids - this comes off as preachy...like she doesnt know what is best for her children. She has to leave because she wants to leave. Simple as that.

Sweetheart, take the advice offered by the posters here.

Go consult an L.

V