In the UK - need help (PT11) - DivorceBusting.com

New home

Old home:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592186&page=11

[/i]Reposting, as it was added to your last thread just as you moved[i]

I am new to your sitch and looking at your last post the fact that it is actions not words you are seeing is very encouraging as that is the element of your W behaviour you want to keep an eye on.

Your challenge now being to see if this continues while you remain detached and enjoying your GAL activities. The reason for this being IF the behaviour stops it won't effect you, which you need to be prepared for so that you don't get too disheartened IF it happens.

You also said recently that you've achieved all of your goals, which is fantastic! To ensure you continue to have direction, have you considered setting more? After all you know that the process works...

Hi Beagley

Thanks for stopping by. Yes, I'm watching the actions now. If she pulls out, then great. If W doesn't pull through, but continues, I am now in the frame of mind that I will survive and flourish. I couldn't say that a few months ago!

Hi Huddy, I'm re-posting this as it posted just as you strated a new thread...

That's great to hear you have achieved your goals. All sounds good in terms of your health, confidence, R with the kids and not expecting stuff from your W.

But I also think you have an air of - yup, all done with my work, just need the W to turn now - oh, but she's pretty stubborn...

I hope you don't think I'm being too intrusive, I do only mean well, but the crux of all of our sitches is that our R has failed, and your goals don't really address you as a man and partner on an emotional level. Do you think that achieving your goals will help you have a better partnership in the future either with your W or some other lucky lady? Are you really addressing 'your side of the street' from a relationship/emotional perspective?

I wonder whether there is an opportunity here for you to dig a little deeper? I would encourage you to have a think about the kind of work that people like Zeus and PP are doing for instance?

I'm interested to hear how you feel about this..

S :-)

Hi Sotto

No, not intrusive at all.

I have thought about my side of the R. I have dealt with all the finances previously and I think W felt left out of that. No worries, happy to share and I've already told her that.

SL was good, so no need to revisit that. In her spew, there have been a number of 'nuggets' that I have picked up. They seem to be about being with her more, in the house and communication. I have been spending much more time with the family group, even if she was just watching TV. Communication is an issue - W isn't talking!

No, I don't feel it's 'job done, just waiting', but unless I can get any more info as to what the problem was I feel I don't know what more to do. I told W I loved her every day. I was a bit stressed at work and I didn't have much time for kids etc. as I was so tired, but I was working so much to provide for the kids. Now, I've flipped that, so I feel I have achieved positives with regard to most aspects of W's 'spew complaints'. I've tried talking and got the usual frosty response, so, I don't want to backslide to that again. Do you have a viewpoint for furtherance?

I guess I'm looking at it from the perspective of - you may or may not have a future R with your W (like all of us here and our WAS's). But, like most of us here, you'll probably have a future R with 'someone' be it your W (hopefully!) or some other lucky lass.

Do you feel that you have learned and changed enough following the demise of this R, to confidently pursue a new R - either with your W or someone else? Do you understand more about the interactions and dynamics between you both? Some of which were probably healthy - others less so etc..

Not trying to steer in any direction, but the reading I have done about R's - 5LL, NMMNG, DR, etc. have made me realise that I was actually pretty clueless about how to have a successful R. I'm about to start reading HNHN next..

I'm not suggesting you're clueless - only that I was!! And now I understand a little more than I did...

Agree with Sotto.

Once you meet your goals, it's time to set new ones!

Hi Sotto

Well, I was pretty clueless in seeing it coming, that's for sure! From all the clues I can piece together, W is in MLC. Yep, I see she wanted to have more to do with running the finances, wanted me to do more with the kids etc., but, if she won't talk to me, how do I get this information?

My S is disabled and W only works one day per week. I can see how that might make her feel lonely, sometimes, but I always made the effort to invite my W to come and meet me at work for a meal etc., which she always declined. As I say, since BD, I have made a real effort to spend more time with the kids etc. and the family group.

I was always very affectionate to W. In the past few years, due to finances, we haven't gone away much, but we did have a holiday to Disneyland Paris in 2013, but with our S's disablement, this proves problematical. I don't feel I was taking her for granted or unappreciative of her, but I don't know how she felt. I certainly never wanted that to be.

So, here we are. I have made changes, but haven't publicised them. People at work have noticed the change in me and my outlook. W has done things with her appearance that she knows make me 'turned on' and this week has cooked a meal etc. In the past, I have taken little acts like this and offered the olive branch in return, only to find it's a trick to see how attached I am, and then been kicked in the teeth.

That is why I am now in the frame of mind that it is up to W to make the next move. Surely, if we are to go forward, W has to try and talk or make some other action that we both recognise as progress and move forward. In house separation is difficult as detachment is difficult.

So, my other DB chums suggest I do nothing and, on current evidence, I agree with them, but do you have something that you could offer to provide a key that I can plant to crack this situation wide open?

Huddy,

You just can't crack the situation open as you say. DBing is a hard and long slog. Be polite and cordial with W. Don't get sucked into her spews or fall into R talks.

Does your S have other kids that he can play with in a group? What I am thinking about is a support group for disabled children where parents and the kids get together for support and play. Surely there's something like that in your area. I'd look into it and see if that's something that the family can do. It may help W relieving pressure on her in terms of being the caretaker for son as a SAHM.

Hi Wonka

As we agreed the other day, It's really up to W to play the next shot. You're right about it being a hard slog, but I do feel a lot better! I know I can't crack it wide open, but I hear Sotto, and she seems to have a slightly different viewpoint, and has come out of the other side, so that would be an interesting viewpoint for me. I'm always willing to listen and learn.

We used to go to a playgroup on a Sunday, but it finished. S is at school during the day (in the UK we call in mainstream with supported learning) so W is alone. I work about 18 miles away from home and before BD I asked W to come and have a meal with me during the day, but she never wanted to travel so far. My W wanted to finish work when our D was born and that was fine. I did worry that she was going to be lonely, but she assured me that wouldn't be the case.

I suppose the next step is to try and get communication going again, but I don't want to initiate as I fear it will just become an eyerolling moment where W will be able to give me another kicking.

So, therefore, I just keep going on with doing nothing. When W does speak to me I am cordial and friendly, but I am not initiating conversation, unless I really need to, as per sandi2's rules.

Huddy -
I think what Sotto is saying is that the way youre writing is that you did your part, cleaned up your act, made your changes, etc, and now its time to just sit back and wait for your W to crack. There is no end point on this journey - our lives should be about KAIZEN (Japanese term for continuous improvement). So you took the bad things and made them good. Now its time to look for the good things and make them great.

You still cant control your W, so keep doing the things youve been doing.

Ah, I thought what Sotto was saying was something different. I guess that is just lost in translation, so to speak!

I'm certainly not sitting back. As I write this, I'm bathing the kids. I enjoy it and it gives W time to be alone - thinking time. Since coming home, I've made my tea (evening meal), fixed my SD's window and now bathtime. Not bad for an hour!

W has bought some new tops. She looks fantastic. But, I can't say anything as that would be pursuing. She currently has on a black, backless number. That's the hard bit. I want to tell her how beautiful she looks; how sexy she is, but, I just know that she'll know the rope is back on, so I just sit with numb lips!

Maybe theres still a little bit missing in the translation. We dont mean "sitting back" to mean like coming home and waiting on the couch. Youve made many changes and are continuing to do them. It's more of a sitting back in a DB way. You set goals at the outset and according to you, you have completed them. So whats the next step on your journey? As I mentioned, I think it's time to set NEW goals. What are the next changes for Huddy? You may need to dig a little deeper this time to figure out what kinds of things you want to do.

Yes, that's a difficult one. I suppose, I just want to build on the previous goals. As you say, go from fixed to great.

W gave me a stare last night. Not an angry one, just a 'stare'. Was it a call to talk? Just looked back and said nothing. Frustration is the killer in all this!

You have immense patience Huddy and that is making things good fro you. The more you focus on you the more you'll get these moments, it's that counter-intuitive thing.

Your new goals now become even more important so you are clear in your mind what your big picture is so anything that changes can be seen as a move towards or away from your goals; they'll also help ensure there's no sliding back.

Hi Huddy, what I'm trying to get at is that DBing works on more than one level. At it's most superficial, we adopt a strategy to try and get the M back on track. But at a deeper level, we are encouraged to look at things which would make the second M a better one - more sustainable, successful and happier. And our own lives more fulfilling, regardless what happens in the M.

I'm asking if you are operating on the first level, but not the deeper one. You have made some changes, which I applaud. But instead of engaging at a deeper level - you're saying 'it's really up to W to play the next shot.' So, instead of thinking that - why not think about some bigger questions?

How happy was I in this M? What dynamics were there between me and W? Were they helpful? Unhelpful? How well do I look after my own happiness? How could I be a better partner to someone going forwards? How could they be a better partner for me? What scares me most in life? Why? What do I want my life to be like going forwards - with or without my W?....

I'm getting the sense that you are willing to DB on a 'practical' level, but not a deeper emotional one. That you avoid 'going there.' Does this make sense at all my friend? I think the risk if we don't 'go there' is that we may get the M back - but will we know what to do with it? Equally, we may not manage to save our M's and would hope to build a better R with someone else next time round.

Hi Sotto

I have looked at those things on the second level and I have made some observations to myself. Normally, W would be my sounding board, but she's vacated the room right now.

I was happy in the M. I have never felt the need to cheat, despite getting two advances, I always said 'no thanks, I'm happily married'. It is only when W stared to have her MLC, for want of something better to call it, that she started to be less affectionate etc. That never affected our SL.

Me and W were so close that we could finish each others sentences and we knew what each other was going to say/do prior to the other person saying it. That's why we always said that we were soul mates.

Personal happiness would be improved by having more money and holidays etc., but with my S that is difficult. There is a reorganisation at my workplace shortly, that may improve matters that way. Sometimes I think W wanted more holidays/money, but these seem superficial.

I have thought about life without W. If she goes, I plan to go to Hong Kong at some point (it's always somewhere I wanted to go, W didn't) for a holiday. If W comes back, then we need to work on the problems that she feels brought it to this. I have no problem with that, but, as I say communication is the key and that's just not happening right now.

Huddy, I'm with you on the more holidays and more money!! I haven't had much of either lately too...

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of internal growth and wondered whether you were looking at anything within yourself at all? Do I recall you mentioning that you had a difficult time earlier in your life with your FOO?

Do tell me to go away if this isn't helpful to you...

Hi Sotto

Had to look up what a FOO was!

If you mean my father, yes I had a problem with him. He cheated on my mother with my auntie and we had a fractured relationship from the time I was 8. I know he had other 'relationships' with women when he worked abroad (I even found naked pictures of him and a woman half his age in Russia from the 1980's)so, that is why I am very anti-cheating.

I am of the opinion that when you have found somebody you love and feel confident enough to settle down with, then that should be that. Everyone has 'problems', but we never did (well, none I ever knew about).

My W comes from a mixed background. Her father is arab and mother is from UK. When she was 15, her father tried to get her into an arranged marriage and she left the family home to live with her auntie and didn't return. They didn't talk for years, but they made up eventually. This is my main fear. W, even when she knows that it is in her best interests to patch things up, will not initiate. I believe it took her mother to get the two together to patch up their relationship.

I hope you see where I'm coming from here. I call it stubbornness, my W might see it as something else, but my real big fear is I'm missing the signs (the dressing up etc.) as a beacon for me to talk, that I'm not taking up, hence the comment about W taking the next shot.

Huddy -
I think youre reading too much into looks and glances and appearances and bed imprints and such. I think what youre doing is working, but I fear youre getting distracted. Just keep on doing. When shes ready to talk, youll know - it wont be a guessing game.

Hi Azzork

I know. It's just getting a bit urggghhhh!!! It's been a long summer and I really just want a bit of light before the dark winter months come along. Onwards!

She hasnt left yet, right? Even though she's been threatening it for, what, 4 months now?

Her behaviors arent getting more erratic, right?

Just stay patient. You dont want to undo the trust you are starting to build.

Hi Huddy. Just to echo the previous poster. If you as wants to talk she will. If she is sending signals that you could miss , how much does she really want to talk

I know where you coming from and we have all been there. My EXW has sent lots of signals and even said a few things that could only be taken as positive BUT she hasn't come home.

The analogue of a frightened animal coming closer and then running when it gets spooked is a great one.

If your W wants to talk you will know because she will ask to talk All the WAS are stubborn or strong minded or they wouldn't have left in the first place.

I think Sotto is bang on. The idea is to keep working on you and get to s place where your happy without W. Not that you don't want her but happy enough with you that W doesn't have the Influence on you that she obviously has at the moment

Take care. Rd

Yeah, It's all true. Just tired and it's been a long work week!

Originally Posted By: Huddy

Yeah, It's all true. Just tired and it's been a long work week!

Thats why we're here!

huddy,

i dont think you're gonna miss it mate. if your W turns around. So don't hang off very word. you'll know when the opportunity is there. you've shown a strength of character until now that I would be very VERY surprised if it doesn't follow you to the grave. You've handled yourself really well mate. i'd love to meet up for a beer with such a gent. No touching though, right mate?

soldier on my friend.

Py

I'm British, so, of course, no touching!

So, I get in tonight and W has torn up a letter from the Estate Agents reducing the price of our house and hidden it in the bin. I wasn't consulted. I asked W why she didn't consult or talk about this and she said 'because you'd have just said no'. I replied with a 'why would I. If you talk we can discuss things'. W then just looked down at the floor and said nothing.

The exchange was brief with no anger. A month or so ago W would have exploded in rage at the mere hint of me talking to her. I just wish she'd open up.

W off to work as usual this morning, it being a Saturday. Brief exchange this morning, initiated by W, about kids clothes for them to wear (again, she hasn't done this for months) and about D going to a party this afternoon. W told me she would be back at 1 to do D's hair. As W left, she said goodbye to the kids and then muttered a 'bye' under her breath towards me. It was very muted, so I didn't reply.

It's been two weeks since she last visited L and I haven't got a letter yet. Normally when I type this kind of thing, a letter appears the next day!

Viewer for house tomorrow, so, time to cut grass today.

W returned at 1 to do D's hair. Brief exchange then as she left she said 'see you later to me'. Again, first time in months. Another two viewers coming to house, so, inevitably at some point, we will get an offer and then it'll be make your mind up time.

The wonders of the WAS mindset. Three hours after the 'see you later', when she returns with D from the party I get a 'why have you done so much washing (laundry)? You never used to do it before, don't do it now!'

OK, background to this. When I got BD, and because W won't talk about 'the problem', I went through a number of scenarios in my head. One of which was that, maybe, I didn't do my share of the chores. Actually, washing clothes was the thing that I did leave to W as I was never quite sure which pile to put blacks/coloureds etc. into, without causing mayhem. So, I took it up on myself to learn how to work the washing machine correctly (not just bung it all in) and have been doing so since April. Nothing was mentioned, except about her underwear, so I have just carried on. Since I'm in anyway, I get through about four loads and get them dry.

So, I don't get it at all. Once she had a go at me for not doing the washing, so I did some and I didn't do it right (oh!) and now I'm getting it tight because I do the washing. And I thought women wanted their man to be useful at the housework!

You are spending time focussing on your W, change that quickly, she's sucking you in so she can get control again.

One of Sandi2's rules is Ignore 100% of what is said and only 50% of what she does and that the positive actions only, are you complying?

Not quite focusing on W, but I see where you're coming from. I was just being practical. I'm in, the washing needed doing, so I did it.

Just a thought, but as W has been coming out a bit, do you think she has got spooked, so needed to have a mini spew to try and get it back in to control?

Just thinking things through.

Hi Huddy Your really going to have to go back to basics Do you ever do Cadets homework at the start.

What ever your W does or says means nothing. People on here are telling you to let her go. That doesn't mean you give up on a future R or M but it does mean move on with your life. We all know how hard it is and we all live it everyday but your hanging on her every word and action

did you read Sandis post re WW and WAS ? It's incredibly insightful and like a script for your W

I know exactly where you coming from so please don't think I dont. My EXW was here today and she started talking about our first flat and then our first cat she went on to reminisce for 20 mins. She has text me 4 times today and I could imagine all different scenarios. I don't because until she says she wants to reconcile it means nothing. I won't let my head go there

Please try and detach because it's not health for you to carry on like this

Take care. Rd

Nicely said rd500.

Huddy, (continuing the tough love, although not so eloquently as rd500) by detaching and GAL your attractiveness for your wife WILL increase and for your future R with her to stand a chance you've got to do it, or it will end in you being hurt big time.

If the R with her does not turn out as you want you'll be a very attractive proposition for someone else, so either way you win and she has a fifty-fifty chance of losing as she's stuck where she was and is not moving forward; you cannot do anything about that other than attract her forward by being a new and improved Huddy. You are an intelligent and articulate man, you know deep within you that it the right thing to do, so make it happen no matter how hard you think it's going to be and you plus everyone around you will benefit greatly.

Hi Guys

Of course I did Cadet's homework. I'm just thinking things through, looking at her actions and seeing, or trying to see, what her mindset is. OK, that probably isn't strictly detaching, as such, but I'm just trying to see what is going on in her head right now. The signals are mixed.

I wouldn't be human if I didn't want to see my R get back together, who wouldn't, but as I have said before, we have the house up for sale and if W goes I am prepared to move forward. In house separation is not fantastic, but we both no real options on that, so it's a waiting game.

As for attractiveness to another, well, I can't say. Horses for courses. Despite my journalling on here, I don't await every move W makes. I am merely sharing my observations so that I can share the experiences, in order to receive feedback that helps me move forward in this drudge match of epic proportions.

I think W knows she would be the loser. She hasn't left home, despite the opportunity. Is she clinging on, awaiting for a better outcome? I don't know. It's just thinking out loud, hoping that somebody screams loud enough for W to wake up before it's too late.

So you are practising mind reading, when you learn the secret you'll make a fortune. :-)

Did you really do the homework Cadet set you? Did you really read the text or just follow the words on the screen while thinking I know better? Be honest with yourself before answering. You know what to do if it's the latter.

You are thinking your wife is about to snap out of it, aren't you? You may also be thinking you'll win the lottery at the next draw, there are probably very similar odds.

Sorry for being tough Huddy, there are two of you in a fog in the house at the moment and you are the smart one who can clear his the quickest because you have so much support here.

I have just been catching up on your posts, and I can only but agree with rd500. Like you my house is for sale, like you I'm examining/ detailing everything that my H says/ don't say and it's driving me insane.

I can understand why it's so difficult to detach when your S is in the house, but at the end of the day your son needs to have one of his parents well grounded.

I'm going into extreme and please do let me know if I have crossed the line but if something was to happen to your loved ones, would you see it as the end of your life? You would grieve, but little by little you would resurface and start a new life.

I hope I haven't sounded too negative.

Hi Huddy. Your reading the words but not really grasping the message

You say your just trying to gauge her mindset You can't , she probably can't ,,,that's the whole point of detaching Her mindset doesn't matter because it shouldnt effect what your going to do.

If your W wants to reconcile you are going to act one way and if your 100% sure she isn't your going to act another , is that right ?

The whole idea is it doesn't matter what she does. Huddy does him its a really hard thing to do but it's the only way.

I appreciate what you chose to do is your business so I'll leave it after this You have loads of people posting the same thing to you and each time you post back with why you continue to do the same thing over and over again

I hope your W realises that she's better off working on her family And I also really hope you reread your posts again. There is a common thread and it's clear Please detach and work on you. All else is doing you no good

Take care. Rd

Week 22

I am sharing my thoughts here because there is nobody else. My kids are too young to understand, so, yes, I try to mindread a little. If you say you don't, then you're lying to yourself.

Now, let's put something clear. I am prepared to move on if W decides that is what she wants to do. I have a rough idea where I'm moving to, costs and what that means in respect of seeing kids etc. That is something W hasn't done.

I have read and re-read cadets homework and read sandi2's rules often. I am not sitting here waiting for W to do anything, I am merely posting what she is doing and seeing if anybody has similar experiences or give me an outlook into the current mindset. It's a journalling experience as I don't know how this compares to others. I don't have any friends who have been in a D to gauge off.

Today, me and the kids are going out for the day. W is at home and looking after the house visits. Of course, I want her to snap out of it. Who wouldn't.

Hi Huddy,

I am ex-pat living abroad and in a doomed/dead M as well. I have read your posts as well as others and thought I was handling it pretty well until the experts came in and now I have more questions. it is like cutting off the hydra's neck 2 more come in its place.

I saw a post from HP where his W sent him an email and thought cool she is ready to come back. After reading on and seeing the posts analyzing the context I felt a jerk. I would have fallen as a real newbie. It is so overwhelming to see how wrong one can be about issues and past decisions, as well as what attitudes to employ as not all situations are similar when you hear from the Azzorks, sandis, Cadet, etc.

As for your situation you are not on real speaking terms so any crack in a dark room shows up a lot and the procedure though slow seems natural. I admire the way you are handling it and hope I can be as steady as you.

As a foreigner I also have limited friends and no one to really talk to as they are not that intimate nor do I have this absolute faith in their secretness. My parents passed away some years ago and the rest of the so called family are ones you only want to see on weddings and funerals so the family card is also not there.

I read the DB & DR books as well as another one (can't remember name) and learned a lot on how to improve my act and it does work and whatever happens I have improved for the cost of many hours of sadness, reflexion and a few euros.

I have now put D on the table as instead of viewing my M as a pyramid or square with a solid base it looks like an inverted triangle.

Anyway respect to you and how you are handling the situation and I really hope it works for you, you seem a nice guy.

Keep it up (thats what she said)

Huddy, all the advice about letting go and not hanging onto every word replies to me too. Prior to reading this I was uncertain about releasing more funds for my solicitors (lawyers) to proceed to court for the financial order.

I now see this is what I must do rather than waiting to see what his next move is before mine. The post is right about our actions shouldn't be dictated by what we think our WAS will/ not do.

This is hard, my resolve crumbles so easily from any indication that I may 'see' as H changing his mind.

Hi Maximus/Smoothy

That's for stopping by, I'm sure you've got loads of stuff to do on a Sunday than read my tripe!

Because the atmosphere has been toxic for so long, I look at anything positive W does as a sign. OK, I know it's not healthy, but anything to see which way this is gonna fall. I've got my plans etc., but to do all that, risk tearing the family apart, even if there is a small glimmer just seems plain daft.

Anyway, me and the kids went off for a trip today into Edinburgh. W wanted to know where we were going, but I didn't say, we just went. Parked up on the outskirts and bus in. As anybody who lives in the UK, it's Edinburgh Festival at the moment, so even at 10 a.m. it was packed. We went to the shops, bought some toys and then went to a McDonalds for our dinner. Great, we all had a good time.

While we were out, W sent me two text messages trying to see where we were and what we were doing. I replied to neither. When we got back, I had brought the remnants of the McDonalds back with us. W greeted us at the door and said 'oh, you've been to McDonalds without me'.

So you see, that's where I'm coming from. If W really wanted to go and leave, surely she wouldn't be that upset about a McDonalds?

Maximus - don't lump me in with Sandi and Cadet. They're HOFers around here. I'm just a rookie.

Huddy - be careful about not replying to texts while you have the kids. I'd reply to a where are you text letting her know everyone is ok so she doesn't call the police or something.

Hi Azzork,

Sorry about that but I have been reading your posts and they are really helpful so regardles of status it was a recognition of helpfulness. Credit where credit is due.

Hi Huddy. Your obviously a very intelligent person. Your W is in a fog and so are you. I booked a week in Spain or me and the kids when I told EXW she broke down in hysterics and couldn't be consoled. We then went away to my Mums for a night and again she broke down.

Can you look at this a different way. If you were over your W and where detached When your W text you asking where HER and your children were you would have answered

Re the McDonalds , maybe she was hungry and couldn't care less if you had a Big Mac but she wanted one

I understand how your looking for hope but if your W is seeing the same thing we are , do you think she finds that attractive ? Here's a man that she has told that she does not want to be in an R with , not answering texts about where her children are just makes you look immature or stubborn. Again , is this attractive ?

Pleas don't think I don't know how you feel. I am with EXW for 25 years. I adored
Her We built a life together and have four kids. Of course I looked for any sign of hope when I first got here but try and see any positive signs as stars , they are great and wanted but mean nothing until W shows you the moon

If W dresses in your preferred dress or styles her hair the way you like it , so what ? She obviously wants to feel good but is it for you ? Who knows.

Keep posting because others with way more insight will advise but the basics are the basics. Great to read you and kids had a great time

Take care. Rd

Hi rd

Right, so, re-read your own message to me from yesterday. You said that by waiting for W's every word and looking at things her way wasn't detaching enough. So, I detach, do my own thing, don't be at W's beck and call and now I'm immature and unattractive. Something isn't adding up.

Detaching, as I understand it, is not waiting on WAS to do something, or you waiting for them to do it; you do your own thing. Reading sandi2's rules, you don't act on your WAS's every action or text or phone call, but play the long game. Clarity?

Hi Huddy. I can see I'm not helping so I'll back out. No I do t wait on my Ws every call or text BUT I would certainly let her know where the kids were if she called. I have my kids 24/7 and I will take them wherever I please , when I please but if W calls or texts to find out where they are I would always answer promptly. This is not to be attractive or mathre but just because she's their mum

I wish you all the best and really hope your family can reconcile

Take care. Rd

No need to back out rd, just interested in your take on things. I don't believe any of us are getting this stuff right - right? We're kind of making it up as we go along, applying rules in an order we think is correct.

Now, W knew we'd gone out, just not where. Previously, I have let W know where we were going, how long etc. and got kicked in the teeth. At that time, I got given advice to not let her know - don't respond to the text etc. on the basis that if we were apart, I wouldn't be doing that on 'my weekends' and I wouldn't be phoning the W when she was alone with the kids. That was explained as detachment. Do you see where we're going here?

Hey, we all want an R - we wouldn't be on a site called 'Divorce Busting' if we didn't; we'd be on one called 'I can't really be bothered if the WAS fecks off or not'. It's just that, and probably true for you too, this has been an incredibly stressful and tiring time and I just want to see something in the way of progress (because, right now, I just can't gauge any) before autumn kicks in and we're back to cold long nights.

General frustration this morning. Can't be helped. Bus week at work, so that should take my mind off things.

Hi Huddy

Thought I'd drop by and let you know I'm still following your sitch even though I'm not posting much these days.

The texting thing is difficult to find a balance. If I remember correctly there was a reason you were advised early on about not Texting her buy I can't remember the details.

So you need to strike a balance. For example. Yesterday in the early AM i received a txt from the STBXW which WAS about S10 but wasn't urgent. That got put in the 'to do' list. However shortly after I received another txt about s10 that did require a response (he had to visit the hospital, thankfully he's just fine) so I responded to that right away.

So I think that there is occasions where communicating with her about the children is fine, but there are also occasions where it's ok to put it on the back burner.

Am I making sense?

NDY

Good to hear from you bud! How you doing? Hope S10 is OK.

Yeah, I can't remember the exact advice either, and I don't want to trawl through 11 threads to be honest (actually, when I think back now, some of the early stuff sounded so needy and desperate, I think it would be embarrassing) to find one line.

Yes, makes sense. Here's the quandary. School have phoned up this morning to say they had taken my S to First Aid as the though he had Chicken Pox. He hasn't, he's just been bit and he keeps picking the scabs. I have left two messages for W for her to take his anti histamine to school, but she hasn't responded. Now that would be a text I would reply instantly to, but I don't know if she's playing me here, because school have tried as well.

Hope all is as well as can be expected with you.

Hi Mate

Yea, I'm good. Really good. So is S10. Thanks for asking.

I've been GALing my wee heart out since I last posted. Been a blast TBH with more to come. Coolest thing yet was I applied to be an extra in a film about Zombies. And it looks like I'm in with a shout. Not because I want to be an actor but I do want to be a zombie :-). I was up in Newport just the other week for a wee cheeky overnight. It was unexpected but good fun.

Anyway, you don't know what's going on with your W RE the txt about the chicken pox. It doesn't really matter. You did the right thing by contacting her and that's all that matters really.

Excellent, glad to hear it all.

A zombie? Well, you've got all the practice in having a WAS because that's how it feels!

I called again to make sure she got the message and she did. Obviously pay back for me not answering her texts yesterday. It's pathetic really. I don't want to ignore her etc., but as sandi2 says, she has to feel loss. I wish I had a magic wand.

Originally Posted By: Huddy

Excellent, glad to hear it all.

A zombie? Well, you've got all the practice in having a WAS because that's how it feels!

I called again to make sure she got the message and she did. Obviously pay back for me not answering her texts yesterday. It's pathetic really. I don't want to ignore her etc., but as sandi2 says, she has to feel loss. I wish I had a magic wand.

We all wish we had one of them mate but alas we don't.

If it's payback it's payback. Pay no heed.

Yea, I though the zombie thing was a cool idea.

Running around George Square I bet. From what I hear, the money isn't fantastic but the perks are good including food, freebies etc. Sounds good anyway!

There is money involved? I wasn't expecting to get paid. I was just looking for the experience.

I've heard some people get �50 per day. One of our guys did it but that was for one of the major studios filming over here. I guess independent film studios might not cough up. Should be a great experience anyway and something to amaze S10 with.

Yea, it'll be amazing. Now that will be a facebook profile picture.

Ha ha. That should scare the dodgy ones away!

Feeling a bit despondent tonight, in fact, all day really. One day W seems she's pulling through, next she's as hard as nails again. This is one marathon I really didn't want to compete in!

We all feel like that sometimes. It's ok for people to say detach, drop the rope, GAL etc but it's easier said than done. Having to live in the same house as her makes it 100 times harder. I may not see my W for weeks on end and may not have any communications for long periods. That makes it easier mate. I don't know where you get your resilience from. I think I would have cracked under the pressure.

For me anyway I'll be turning back towards the new philosophy of life soon. I'll still pop in and say hi every now and again but it may be sporadic.

Wanna know what my new philosophy is? I struggled with the making goals thing. I'm just not that type of person (not that I'm not ambitious). I've decided that, as long as it's not life threatening I just say yes to any and every opportunity that presents itself.

And it works.

Good luck. Do pop by when you're not being a zombie!

Huddy, I am new here. My wife moved out of bedroom, does not wear her ring. She wants a divorce. In three years my youngest graduates from high school. I said then not before. I said before that you move out. She will wait till then. It was a stall move on my part. I am now here trying to make it work out.

The reason I mention this is to tell you that you are one of my DB hero's because of what your doing. Living in the same house as wife has some good points but you pay for every one in spades. I am just begining, nowhere down the rabbit hole as you so I cannot offer any advice, just my admiration. Get the faith my brother.

Hi Mutatio

Thanks for stopping by. Will get around to looking at your sitch. Hero? Well, thanks for that, but I'm just a regular guy trying to keep everything going along, mainly for my kids. There have been incredible lows, but every now and again, I get a bit 'urrgh' and wonder what the point is. Some days you see the very faintest hint of old W, then it gets snatched away.

I have changed, so I think, but I just wish I could get some recognition from W. I'm not religious or anything like that, don't tend to go in for navel gazing, so, I'm trying to be practical and look for signs, whilst implementing DB principles. Do I get it all right? Probably not.

Our house is up for sale, so at some point soon, we will get an offer, and it'll be 'real' for both of us.

Special advice required here folks.

My SD has informed me that my MIL/SIL x 2/FIL and associated nieces and nephews are coming to our house on Saturday for a one day visit. That's a 460 mile round trip by car. W has not informed me of this.

There are a number of scenarios turning around in my head. These are as follows:

1) They're coming up to try and talk to me;
2) They're coming up to move some of W's stuff;
3) They're coming up to take the kids out so that we can talk.

In percentage terms, i think 1 & 2 are are 49% each with 3 coming in at a low 2%.

Whatever the motive is, this is gonna be awkward and somewhat inappropriate. I can see how, in strict DB terms, I should go out for the day and do something, but why should I leave my house, and feel awkward, when I haven't asked these people to come and, to be perfectly honest, I don't really want them there?

I could say this to W, but as she owns 50% of the property, I don't see how I can. I've heard talk of kids going to beach etc., but it just seems crass to walk in to such a toxic situation.

I'm concerned how I handle SIL/MIL if I see them. Personally, I have no desire to see them ever again. I'll need to keep super cool for this one.

Huddy,

If I were you, I'd invite some friends that you trust to hang out with you on Saturday to ensure that nothing untoward happens. You only have to see Bob's thread to understand how some WASes just feel that they can come in and take things out unfettered.

Yes, keep your cool. Study up on the Validation Cheat Sheet.

Sit tight and wait to see if W informs you of this Saturday's plans. Meanwhile, I would try to contact a friend or two to come over house to hang out. Just briefly tell them why you've asked them to come over and counsel them to KEEP cool.

Hi Wonka

It just seems an incredibly in appropriate thing to do. When SD told me, my initial reaction was to walk up to W and tell her no way. However, I realised that would probably be playing into her hands, so I just said 'oh, right', and went out with my son for 40 minutes.

Will check the cheat sheet again. I don't think inviting my closest friend over would be good. They're both women and know my situation and are more than likely to have a shouting match with W and the error of her ways. My guy friends are out at the Edinburgh Festival this weekend, so that's a non runner as well.

Time to be a fridge!

Hi mate.

If you can't invite friends over go out? Not that I'm an advocate for conflict avoidance but you could have 'already made plans' (wink wink) and since you had no idea about the visit then.......

Either that or hang around. You could get some really good Intel.

Hi Bud

Thanks for dropping in again. I'll see what the weather holds for Saturday. It seems weird coming 460 miles for a day trip. My gut says it's not good. Of course, I could just sit in the middle of it all and really annoy them (kidding).

Huddy,

I wouldn't leave the house at all on Saturday if I were you. My suspicious are deeply aroused when you say that they live 460 miles away and they're coming just for the day??

Something isn't right in Denmark.

I'd still try to wrangle up some friends to hang out at home just to have witness around in case things go haywire with W and her cavalry. Take a look at Bob's thread to see what I mean here. Many WASes have this mindset that they can just waltz in and take things out of the marital unfettered without concern for the LBS' feelings about certain items that may have been handed down by that side of the family.

Crazy stuff happens when you learn that the WASes and their posse come to the house unannounced or do this on the sly.

Keep your eyes wide open. Stay calm. Keep your cool.

^^^^^Fair point. Do what Wonka said.

It's just a thought, but is there a particular job that needs doing around the house or garden? Maybe if you asked a friend over to help with that job on that day? You could greet the family, but then get on with your 'job' with your friend helping - without it looking as though your are hanging around the house with a mate...

Just a thought - otherwise - if you can pull it off, I would greet them all, say hi, put the kettle on and settle in for a chat with the W's folks - keeping excellent PMA the whole time. Is it possible they are passing through and not making a huge there and back journey in a day?

Morning all

Yes, woke up early this morning (0415) and couldn't get back to sleep. Thoughts going through my mind. Not planning on going anywhere on Saturday. I've checked out Bob's thread and see the trouble he had.

Did some digging. From what I can see, W has made plans for dental appointments next month (here) on the calendar and has booked appointments for hairdressing clients right through to the end of October. Of course, that could mean jack! W has left her phone out again this morning. I was in two minds to have a look through her messages to see if that could help, but decided not to snoop. Views on that?

My thoughts are that as long as you're prepared for them to sit for a 20 minute tea or for them to haul away furniture, does it matter if you know right now? It's not like you can control it either way.

You may want to list up all your furniture/valuables so that you can be cognizant of the value she would be taking IN THE EVENT that's why they're coming.

Also - didn't know you guys knew what a "mile" is.

Hi Azzork

Plan to play it cool and stay in. You're right, worrying for nothing right now.

Miles? We're not Europeans, we don't work in KM's, good old fashioned miles for us!

I have faith you will manage Saturday well. Keeping a PMA and having good interactions with them could help down the line.

Regarding you and your wife's possessions, I have a different opinion then most. If and when my wife walks she can have it all. I will start a new life in a new land not weighed down by the past.

My daughter is applying to spend the spring semester at University in Edinburgh. The world is smaller then it seems.

The glass is half full Huddy.

Originally Posted By: mutatio

Regarding you and your wife's possessions, I have a different opinion then most. If and when my wife walks she can have it all.

Youre not alone in this. When my W left, I pretty much said here's the list of things, you pick what you want out of it to make 50%. I dont have a sentimental attachment to any of it, so it's all just money to me. I think I wound up with a little over half, because shes the one moving to the small apartment, but most of my stuff (art, china, etc) isnt so useful. But....whatever. Guess OM will enjoy sleeping in the bed I slept in for over 15 years.

I know what you mean. Fresh start if she goes etc. I just don't like the idea of a troop of in-laws pitching up at my door, haggling over things.

I could be jumping the gun. Maybe my W has plans for a beautiful day together where she reaffirms her love for me and repents all her previous bile. There again.........

Had to have a chuckle to myself tonight. W seems to be obsessed with the 'Fifty Shades of Grey' books. She's got all four and has, today, purchased the DVD. Now, my job involves a degree of planning, observation and investigating skills, so, I notice when anything has been moved in the house, added etc.

I noticed the DVD on the bookcase when I came in. W was out when I got home, but arrived back about five minutes later. Whilst I was sat on the setee, she calmly got a piece of paper, slyly walked over to the bookcase, picked up the DVD and hid it behind the paper, placing it in a drawer in the landing.

Now, I can't claim to have seen the film, or read the books, but I'm told it's 'Mummy porn'. So, is she researching, looking for that fantasy or just simply missing the 'lurve' and helping herself?

W has still said nothing about her family pitching up and she has contracted some sort of throat infection, which means she can't really talk. I haven't asked if she's OK, because I think that is pursuing, but I'm willing to be corrected, otherwise.

Journalling

My PMA went through the roof today when I saw a work friend (female) that I hadn't seen for a couple of months. She knows about my situation, so, I have to take it with a little pinch of salt. She said how good I looked 'so slim, younger without the beard'. That felt really good. She then went on to say, because she hasn't really seen me since the start of the summer, that seem to be in a really good frame of mind and she can really tell the difference. I didn't go fishing as to why, but the fact that somebody has noticed a difference, does make me feel more confident as well.

Got home and W still has a nasty throat infection. I asked her how it was and if she needed any medication. She has virtually lost her voice, but she replied that she had strepsils, but I could tell she didn't really want engage with me, so backed away and drank my STFU smoothie.

So, a day that wasn't too bad. W still hasn't told me about her family coming up at the weekend. Spot of mindreading, but I'm guessing W must have noticed the differences in me, but I have yet to see any real ice break. It's a long road, is this!

I'm happy to read you had a good day. They seem to be few and far between for me. Sorry, I don't want to be a party pooper.
I hope your weekend goes well.

Not a party pooper - this isn't the best party in the world.

Little bit of intel about the weekend. Overheard W talking to SD (the seem really close right now) saying that the were coming up for the day and W had moved her appointments to Sunday.

Seems like a really long way to come for a day trip.

Bat signal to Wonka.

W has broke cover and told me her folks are coming up for the day with associated SIL's and various kids. Says they are going out for the day, however, if it rains, she's going to bring them back (it's August in the UK - of course it's going to rain!).

W asked if I was going out for the day, and I said I wasn't. 'Well, I'm bringing them back if it isn't nice', to which I replied 'OK. I'm waiting in for the shopping anyway'. W didn't boil over with rage, but seemed perplexed that I wasn't going to run away from the situation that was going to be caused by their arrival. I don't see anything packed up etc., so I don't think she's moving out. W started to chew her nails, which is odd, as she has been growing them recently.

So, the big question is, do you think I'm right to stand my ground? I'm not being a jerk about it; haven't stopped them from coming; plan to be pleasant and friendly - I just don't see why I should be pushed out of my house. It could be awkward, but there again, they may actually see that the stuff that W has been telling them isn't true.

Second, supplementary question is, how do we measure success on this path? I think it was Azzork (could be wrong, apologies if not) that said I must be doing things right because W wasn't showing further erratic behaviour and hadn't left yet. I just don't feel it. She can hardly bare to look at me and actually stringing a sentence together to aim at me takes more time than the Atlantic drift. In three weeks it'll be half a year and I'm just feeling a bit jaded and just wondered if their is any kind of reboot that anybody has tried to try and numb the nastiness. That's probably the worst part of things. I have so much to talk to her about (just day to day stuff really; sharing moments in the day etc.) I just don't get any warmth at all.

Hi mate

I'll leave the secondary question alone but on the first question. It's your house. No more needs saying.

I think you measure success by setting goals and seeing if you reach them.

Have you set goals?

Did you hit them?

Hi NDY

Thanks for dropping in. Hope you're OK.

Hi Azzork

Set my goals and have hit them all. Lost weight (three stone) - tick; Spend more time with kids (now spend as much time as I can, used to be tired when I got in and left a lot to wife as she was SAHM) - tick; spend more 'together time' (that is in the same room as everybody else - comment made by W that we didn't spend enough time together) - tick; feel better about myself and confident -tick; people actually telling me I look and seem different (by product, but good to get some feedback from non family members) - tick.

Goal to get W back stuck on zero!

Originally Posted By: Huddy

Set my goals and have hit them all. Lost weight (three stone) - tick; Spend more time with kids (now spend as much time as I can, used to be tired when I got in and left a lot to wife as she was SAHM) - tick; spend more 'together time' (that is in the same room as everybody else - comment made by W that we didn't spend enough time together) - tick; feel better about myself and confident -tick; people actually telling me I look and seem different (by product, but good to get some feedback from non family members) - tick.

Goal to get W back stuck on zero!

Ok. Think about it in DB land though.

Your ultimate goal is getting your W back. That's "the hole". You aimed for a spot 5 ft away ^^^^. Great! You hit those. That's PROGRESS.

Now it's time to set a new set of goals. What does the next set of progress milestones look like to you? How can you get there?

Hi Azzork

Well, the next ones are difficult. I see it as this:

1) Get W to actually talk to me;
2) Get W to work on our R;
3) Get W to see that running away isn't worth the damage to anybody in family.

Now I say W, of course I mean both of us do these things. That's the problem, as I see it. There is no warmth from W - at all. I'd be warmer standing next to an iceberg. I just don't know how to progress if communication is non-existent.

Don't get me wrong, I've tried being a hard arse (well, I din't like that - it's not me); I've tried being nice guy (well, that got me a kick in the teeth) so, I've kind of gone for a full strength STFU smoothie and decided to play the long game. Take yesterday, W has a really bad throat infection. She can hardly talk. I ask her if she's OK and if she needs any medication. I got a withering look, an offhandish 'I've got strepsils' and then the look away from me moment. So, I just back away and shut up. Hardly progress! I'm just wondering if I'd get more response if I put on a posing pouch and run around the living room in front of her (if you're eating a meal, I'm sorry I put that image in your mind!).

Originally Posted By: Huddy

1) Get W to actually talk to me;
2) Get W to work on our R;
3) Get W to see that running away isn't worth the damage to anybody in family.

Thankfully, I dont know what a posing pouch is....or I very well may never come back into this thread.

As for the things above, I think you need to start smaller. If your definition of "progress" is that your wife will want to work on your R, OF COURSE youre going to be frustrated, because that goal practically IS the hole. So let's start smaller. For instance, my wife used my name in the introduction of an email today. Thats a tiny baby step....but I noticed it.

So, for you, here are some things I think you might look for:
1) your wife starts a conversation with you about something other than kids or finances
2) your wife laughs in your presence about something you said/did
3) Your wife says something positive about you
4) Your wife prepares food for you
5) your wife watches a TV show with you

Im sure theres many others...but I think this is the level that youre looking for right now, yes? Think about this:
if you knew that your wife was going to want to reconcile with you, what are the first things you would think that she would be doing? Let's list those up so that you can judge progress.

Oh, that's an interesting way of looking at it.

1,2 and 3 haven't happened. 4 on the odd occasion in the last 22 weeks. 5 is every day - more my design really, following her remark about not spending enough time with her etc.

As for your quote (in blue), I would think making conversation with me would be the first step. I've just done the internet shopping and asked W if she wanted anything particular from the shops. She looked at me and just said 'no', 'the usual'. No please, no thank you. That's the hard bit; I'm being pleasant and just getting nothing in return.

Originally Posted By: Huddy

Oh, that's an interesting way of looking at it.

1,2 and 3 haven't happened. 4 on the odd occasion in the last 22 weeks. 5 is every day - more my design really, following her remark about not spending enough time with her etc.

As for your quote (in blue), I would think making conversation with me would be the first step. I've just done the internet shopping and asked W if she wanted anything particular from the shops. She looked at me and just said 'no', 'the usual'. No please, no thank you. That's the hard bit; I'm being pleasant and just getting nothing in return.

The things I threw out there were just ideas. But I think the point remains. If Im correct, your end goal is "reconcile with my wife to have a healthy marriage".

So I would come up with 3-5 tiny baby steps that would indicate that you are moving in that direction. What are the first things you would expect to see if that were your path? Then we can measure against those. Once they are hit, you can start with the next set.

Lets say your goal is to sail around the world. If all you see is ocean the whole time, youll never know if youre going the right way. But if you have a map and chart the land as you see it, you can understand how close youre going, if youre on the right path, etc.

1) your wife starts a conversation with you about something other than kids or finances
2) your wife laughs in your presence about something you said/did
3) Your wife says something positive about you
4) Your wife prepares food for you
5) your wife watches a TV show with you

I would see these more as 'signs of good progress' than goals. They are outcomes, and goals need to be 'inputs' - ie: things that you have control over. I also think that our goals should be less about our S's and more about ourselves....

JMHO....:-)

^ X2

Its impossible to have goals based on contributions from another person .. ESPECIALLY when they have no knowledge of it, nor are committed to helping achieve such a thing, doing this is very dangerous territory because it puts the 'goal line' out of reach and can build resentment ... if your W walks by you while you are sitting on the far side of the couch mentally luring her to sit next to you, you will come away feeling rejected and hurt.

If one's goal is to lose 5 lbs they can jump on the scale, monitor progress and make adjustments to what they eat, how much .. etc.

All those "Get W to do this or that" really kinda sounds controlling to me.

Originally Posted By: Sotto

1) your wife starts a conversation with you about something other than kids or finances
2) your wife laughs in your presence about something you said/did
3) Your wife says something positive about you
4) Your wife prepares food for you
5) your wife watches a TV show with you

I would see these more as 'signs of good progress' than goals. They are outcomes, and goals need to be 'inputs' - ie: things that you have control over. I also think that our goals should be less about our S's and more about ourselves....

JMHO....:-)

Oh. Totally agree! I was trying to help Huddy as he seemed stuck on "signs of progress". But yes....once you pick what youre looking for, then you can map out the things you need to do in order to get there!

Huddy,

Yeah, when I first read this...I said to myself, "those are not goals for Huddy." I am with Sotto as they are measurable progress. Now bear in mind that the 3rd item isn't a real measurable progress per se because it is subjective since W feels right now that it is important to her that she reclaim her personhood away from you.

Originally Posted By: Huddy

Well, the next ones are difficult. I see it as this:

1) Get W to actually talk to me;
2) Get W to work on our R;
3) Get W to see that running away isn't worth the damage to anybody in family.

Le'ts flip this list over to to Huddy.

-what can I do to elicit a more positive response from W? (choice of words, general demeanor, face square to W's body, tone)
-what changes I need to make for myself that shows a new, improved Huddy 2.0 that will re-attract W?
-Lady Karma will take care of W and W will come to her own realizations in due course. Let. Go. Let. God.

You cannot control what W does or does not do. However, you can CONTROL you. This is where the focus needs to when it comes to DBing.

Huddy you are still doing fantastic you are truley one of my inspirations being in a similar sitch with the W still at home is very difficult.

Hang in there buddy

Take care

Ghost

Spot on Ghost! In house is tough specific goals will be really helpful.

I am with the team on the goals. All goals need the five serving friends Who, What, When, Where and Why.

To be capable of achievement they can follow the SMART principles, so you know how to knock them out of the park.

Getting this and learning this technique is truly going to make a huge difference in your life in all aspects of it from personal to work. It really will, you can be like V with Excel spreadsheets of goals ( yep one for each project and a summary one) with each column an active field. I kid you not. Thats how I do it each column is headed Who etc and then there are the months along the top Sep 15, Oct 15 etc and I add scores from 1 too 10! I even have Sandis 37 (now 41) guidelines and I track those, from time to time I post my scores on my threads. I also give my GAL and PMA scores too. Monitor it to keep you strong.

One more tip make these active and present, I am, I have booked, I do etc, it tricks your mind into achievement.

You have a master guiding you in Wonka, who is one hell of an amazing lady.

Plus I am wearing my I am following Azz and Cali T shirt and I have my I am a Sotto fan baseball cap on.

Will be very interested to see the final versions. Go get 'em.

I am backing you already with friends like these you are already a winner on your goals. Plus you are at a great point in your thread wouldnt it be fantastic to start a new thread with honed goals? You have 8 posts to get there.

Smiles

V

Thinking of you today, Huddy.

Hope you drank a TON of PMA punch!

Afternoon all

Thanks for all your input. I've got to say, I'm not really good at goal setting. If they are personal goals, that I can control, fine. I can decide what I want, how to get there and how to view the finished article. Now, I see what you're saying about setting goals that entice my W back, I just don't know what to set. So, we can say the first goal is to get her to talk to me. I try looking at her, try engaging in conversation, and just get nothing in return. What can I do? Well, nothing really, it's up to W. Frustration!

To matters at hand. W came near my bed today. I thought OK, this could be good, only to be stood up by the washing (laundry) basket! W had picked up my smalls to put in the wash. It is, however, the first time she has been in a bedroom with me since April.

In the end, W's Mum, Sister, brother and one of my nieces have come up for the day. W's plan was that they would come in for a cup of tea and then go out for the day. Unfortunately her brother had other ideas, and they have only gone out now (after 2.5 hours) to take the kids to the park and go for a meal.

I have been pleasant and friendly. I have chatted to her brother, but have had no convo with MIL/SIL other than 'hiya'. SIL tried to rile me with a comment about 'depression and anxiety' (these were words I used when I wrote to MIL, right at the start, asking for help - big mistake to involve in-laws)but just stayed cool and said nothing. So, not too bad. Apparently FIL hasn't traveled due to the row they had when W was on holiday there in the summer. I was making food for the kids, so didn't overhear it all, but it looks as if bad blood still flows.

Now, here's the unusual part. W has looked and smiled at me on a number of occasions today. This may be nervousness at the situation (she didn't say goodbye when she went to park) as she has then smiled at her mother. The women have retired to the kitchen every now and again. I guess that's to chat about the sitch.

All in all, I'm keeping calm, drinking STFU smoothies by the bucket load and hoping the rest of the visit goes off just as well.

Everyone back after a couple of hours. They brought the meal back with them. Pizza, Garlic Bread, Chips (fries) and coke. Although I was offered some, I declined. I did this in a nice 'no thanks, I'm not hungry' way (I'd already eaten as I didn't know when they were coming back). This was offered by SIL. Again, W has looked at me. I think the whole thing is stressing her out. It's the most eye contact I've had since BD.

They're off in about 50 minutes for the 230 mile drive back. My BIL is home from the Middle East at the minute and just fancied seeing W. So, why the cloak and dagger stuff?

Have been reading Johnathan Cainer, again. He says September will see my trauma stop! Thanks Johnathan - I hope so!

It's time to get good at goals. Or would you prefer to have your goals set by horoscopes written in a national newspaper? Is that your way forward?

Some of the best talents here are advising you.

It's a challenge!

Not letting you off the hook.

V

Hi V

Website. I certainly wouldn't buy the paper he writes in!

Week 23

They managed to go at about 2100hrs, right in the middle of a thunderstorm. Again, was pleasant and said goodbye to everyone. It could have been a lot, lot worse.

So, to goals. As I said, I'm not really that good at this kind of thing. I'm not really a navel gazer. The ultimate goal is to get W back, or more to the point, to get W to want to be back with me.

The key is communication. I've tried, but I just get no response. There is also the issue of pursual. This is where it gets really confusing. OK, so I'm throwing it open for a goal suggestion, that starts to match my ambition without breaking the rules.

Hi Huddy, I'm not sure about specific goals, but maybe thinking of setting goals in some of these areas may help?

Future relationship
Being a Dad
Finances
Friendships
Hobbies
Health
Money
Work
Learning
Spirituality/faith
Happiness

When you look at this list, are there areas where you feel (regardless of what your W may be up to) that you could improve? If you succeeded, what would success look like? What can you do this month to get a step nearer to that?

So an example area might be - I'd like to have more hobbies that I really enjoy. And a goal this month could be - find and join a group that does this hobby.

I guess the above is working on the 'life wheel' principle. Where each of that list above forms a 'piece of cake' on the life wheel and you can score how happy you feel in that area. If you google that, you'll see what I mean...

Hope this helps! Sotto :-)

Huddy one of the problems that I see with my thread and I caught a glimpse on yours is that we are trying to get the W back that is our ultimate goal and as hard as it is to believe I know I struggle ....there is not much if anything that we can do to achieve this.

It is all about mindset and my w probably like yours has a very different mindset to ours we believe that we can make this better ...when I spoke to my W and I have done this too many times and I said I want it to get better between us she said what is better ...this is as good as it gets ...she relates better as back together and this is not what she wants.

I read on another thread I think it was cadet that said most people are D on the bomb date they just do not realise it. Now none of us want to believe this or we would not be here.

All we can do is focus on goals to become a better person and in the process hope that W wants to be with us as a loving partner with our children.

Stay strong my friend

Ghost

Originally Posted By: Ghost56

.I read on another thread I think it was cadet that said most people are D on the bomb date they just do not realise it. Now none of us want to believe this or we would not be here.

To be clear, I think most of believe this. The reason that we are here is that we know that being divorced does not mean our relationship with our spouses is over. I believe that in order to restore our relationship, we have to treat it is over first.

The more we cling to that old R, the harder it is to form a new one.

Now, as to Huddy, I agree with Sotto (shocking, i know). You don't have to set a TON of goals. But try to get 3-5 things out there. I think she's given you a great list. Maybe pick a few and set one goal in each to start?

Oh yeah - maybe start a new thread? 😃

Huddy's new thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREAD