Hello, Skip to the now part of too long?
I’m sorry if this is long but i will try to get everything out as i need help and i can no longer cope with what i know, or deal with things on my own. I have been lurking on here for the last 2 months and finally decided to join. Me and my W have been married 4.5 years and dating for 5 prior to that. We met in and attended the same college. We have been through some big things together including the loss of her father 6 year ago (young). I am 31 and she is 29. We both work for the Gov’t. Everything was good for the first several years, and then as i recently found out, she has been unhappy for a year but due to poor communication by both of us. If we had better communication this never would have happened but im trying not to continue to dwell in the past as I can’t fix it (she is however). Anyways, she never discussed this with me, and like most on here, i was hit by a freight train when i noticed something was different and sat her down to talk about 3 months ago and it came out, ‘im not happy’. As another side not, my wife is very religious and recently because of the affair, even that view she has always had so strongly seems to have melted away…
History:
When I sat her down ~3 months ago now, I let her know what I have noticed and I felt something was obviously wrong. I believe this was the ‘gut’ instinct you always hear about. The morning before this, I had also reached out to a mutual friend (her BFF) and she confirmed my suspicions that she was unhappy and actually listed out why from what she had heard. All the things to me were minor, but obviously added up to her as a big thing and I understand that now as I have fixed most all I can. I didn’t do my share of the chores (laundry, dishes, cleaning), and didn’t show affection enough in ways other than sex, and I fell into the trap where I played video games and let myself kind of go. In short, I stopped being me basically, and I stayed home instead of hanging out with friends, and I didn’t really want to do much to the point when we did go out, I would ask to leave early missing the point she was having fun. I am writing this as I have absolutely made mistakes, I admit them, and they have pushed her away prior to this talk. I know I have some accountability for this. I have fixed most things however almost as soon as I had this talk.
After the talk, I found this forum and found out I had done everything wrong. Hearing she was upset and had a foot out the door basically, I 180’ flipped myself but too much. I started smothering her (unknowingly until I lurked on here), wanted sex, cuddled every night, tried to hold her hand, take her out, start conversations, and followed her around the house… After I found this place, I realized that was not the right course of actions, but not before she told me I was smothering here several time, I didn’t used to cuddle for a long time so its too much, and the talks were too much. I tried to talk all the time about us and how we could fix things. Especially speaking for her, saying I know we can work through this, we love each other, etc… so that last a month. During this, and now, im so devastated I would basically just break down if I messed up, and was rejected. Even now, I am still have trouble with this because I love her so much and want to try and reconcile. Its evident now, I am the only one trying to fix things between us.
One of the biggest signs I noticed before the talk, was she was leaving a lot on the weekends, and while I missed it at first, it was a big factor in my wake up call. I finally realized I was the one now being ignored. I also noticed she became glued to her phone, social media sites like FB and her email, and she became very guarded over it. The guarding of the phone was a observation my gut picked up and I know something was up. Long story short, I uncovered she had been talking to someone she used to date in HS and he is divorced and laying it on thick. At this time, I was heartbroken, and did not know what to do so o pretended it wasn’t happening and hoped it would go away (stupid I know). Finally after continuing to work on the R (too fast and way too much at once I believe now), I ended up talking to her BFF who said they were still talking after I asked. I asked her if she had ever cheated on me and she confirmed no at this point but they were pushing the boundary with the convo’s. After this, another week went by and my wife acted worse and more distant than ever, so one day I had a chance and went through her phone. I uncovered the EA and how she was obviously very involved and there was a lot of sexual talk and references back to how they never connected in HS. I found a new low seeing the texts shared between them and confronted her. She said they were just friends, and was PISSED I went through her phone, obviously because I exposed them. She withdrew more after that.
For the next weeks until now, we had ups and downs. I was obviously pursuing and apologizing for what I had done and repeated I want to fix things and I know we can…etc. We had a couple great intimate trips to a city, great dinners together, and continued to do stuff (still do). We were still very intimate in the bed or whenever I would kiss her; until a month ago. I noticed the ‘I’ love you’s stopped unless I said it, texting got short, she was ALWAYS on her phone and hiding, and worse the intimacy in bed wasn’t there anymore. She acted like she didn’t want to look at me and really was only appeasing me although she would end up enjoying it after I got her going. This started to affect me though as it became so obvious to me she wasn’t interested at times (50/50) and wouldn’t makeup or look at me honestly. We then went on a trip I planned two weeks ago to Jamaica, I book a 4 star at a couple report in hopes we would find each other again if we got away. Well this turned to a [censored] show, she obviously didn’t want anything romantic (had been pulling away with everything like I mentioned), and even invited another couple (her BFF) to join us without asking me, and later I found out because we have pretty good $$, she actually helped them come because she didn’t’ want to be there alone with me! This again, killed me inside when I saw this. Yes I was snooping like you all say not too and now I know why. Also with this, I discover she has gone on the pill and be lying about it to me and even when I confronted her, she lied until the next day she came clean and said “I don’t want to risk bringing a kid into this since we are having issues right now. Flash back to the month before, she would still talk about kids with me and to my knowledge we were trying as I have wanted to start a family. So again, I found a new low after reading this and had to ask myself how do I get up in the morning, how could someone do this to me and a marriage? I still thought everything was just an EA at this point and tried continuing to do the 180 mentioned on here hoping it would fissile out if I fixed myself.
Now:
Now, as of yesterday, I found another ultimate low and I can even form words as I type this. I again, snooped because her story from this weekend made no scenes to me, and I uncovered a lie that even involved her BFF to cover for her (where she said she went, but I knew it was BS based on the time she was randomly leaving, and wouldn’t look at me when I was poking with some Q’s. Before this, her BFF to my knowledge was helping us as a mutual friend and listening to both of us, and had even helped me with many other things about how my W was feeling. I think I ruined this because in the snooping I called her out on the vacation as not helping us and she should tell my wife to talk to me about issues, not her as she can fix anything, she obviously got pissed I said she wasn’t help and I think I burned the bridge there…
Anyways, when I went through her photos, I found out she saves conversations and sadly, I read them and they confirmed the worst moment in my life, not only was it an EA but and he was all in now pouring it on, it had become physical. They met the month before during a time she clearly lied about going ‘home’, and then this past weekend they met again. I am at a loss for words as my world is shattered. I have not confronted her stating I know she has physically cheated on me, and I need advice if I should let her know I know the truth now, with evidence, since she still denies the affair to my face from prior efforts. I had called her out on it, but I never had direct evidence until this conversation describing the night. Also pictures of her and OM together during other times. In case I am unable to fix things, I did gather stuff as evidence so she can’t just delete things which killed me to do. Other than the pictures, I then found FB messages, and emails that were exchanged also. So after seeing this, lord knows what’s in the other thousands of messages and snapchats they have shared. I found this out yesterday that she physically cheated and I am a mess. She was out last night, and acting so nice when she came home, and all I could do was yes/no’s while I cried harder than I thought possible inside. I just stared at the tv since I did wait up for her, and just couldn’t find it in myself to look at her. She even asked me what was wrong, why was I being quiet and kissed me before bed like she always does.
What’s next? Since I didn’t have evidence I always dance around a direct confrontation that I know she was having an affair and to stop now or leave (which I don’t want). I don’t know what to do but how can I hold on to this info without letting her know I know, and forcing her to make a choice? I think I always knew this but it has now become a reality for me. I have clearly been delusional to myself about whats happening and because been a doormat because I was afraid of her leaving and enabled it to grow more rather than completely setting boundaries two months ago. The OM is 2 hours away, divorced, and has 3 kids which hurts even more, because she always complain how she only wanted 1 or two, didn’t know if she was ready for kids, likes to sleep in, hates working, likes to travel and vacation. None of that will happen with the OM realistically, its bscally a fantasy when she thinks ti will be all fun…
She doesn’t seem to notice any of the cnages I have made, I know do my laundry, keep the house very clean, dishes, vacuum, try to hold her hand and take her out to new places, hug/cuddle her which she normal tried to reject, shower…etc. All I get is nagging, what I did wrong 2 years ago or something old and she refuses to get over the past. I have told her I have drawn a line and I can forgive you for anything you have done until know because i Iove you and I want to work on our M (basic’s of last talk).
I need help on next step or phase…? Advice? Where im still messing up? Can I do anything to still save what we have. We still live together and because get alone (prior to this). We act more like we are good room mates now then a married couple to be honest… which is a step up from bad roommates, but nowhere needs we need to be. I know and have also seen messages where she is conflicted and asking her BFF if the OM wasn’t there, she feels she we would have fixed things by now. Is something like that glimmer of hope? He of course mocked this when she tried to tell him to stop a month ago, and obviously since then she has falling completely that direction and away from me…
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).
Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thanks for the links. I have read most of them recently as i have been on here for the last month, i just had not signed up to post my own sotry.
So my question now as im clearly devastated and being eating alive on the inside with the fact i 100% know she is still in the affair and has phyically cheated. Do i confront? How should i do this while making it known i want to still attempt to fix our M? Should i tell her to leave? I feel like ive been a doormat to much and now she is just taking advantage, the typical having her cake and eating it too... obviously this make me feel terrible and while shes having fun, i am falling apart and just trying to hold myself togather. I dont get how someone can do this, and then come home and pretend like its mostly ok. Still kiss me, before work and bed, and lways returns it if i initiate
should i confront just her, or since i have becasscially tried that, should i expose to everyone and let everyone know i still want to work on my M. By everyone, i mean the close circle who know we have issues which she has lied about making me the bad person out of all this...
thanks
I think the first thing you do is work on your self.
Yes boundaries are important but it is like losing oxygen in an airplane.
Put on your own oxygen mask first before you worry that things are flying around near you.
You know basics like eating, sleeping, breathing and exercising.
Once you know you are going to be alright then you can work on other things.
I know it's tough to eat and sleep. I ended up having to see a doctor and get some anxiety meds.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Angels,
If you can, take solace in the understanding we've all been where you are right now. I changed from a strong, confident man into a spineless puddle overnight.
Be thankful that you have found this community. Unfortunately, it took me almost two months to find DB and this site. Get the books and read them!
Begin to employ the DB strategies immediately for your own sanity.
Also, this is pure gold:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072
Hi Angels, so sorry you find yourself in this mess. You will have plenty of company here on the board.
What do you wish to accomplish by confronting her? Is it to let her know that you know? B/c confrontation, alone, will not change what she's doing. Unless you are ready for a showdown, my advice is to hold off until you have much more DBing under your belt. Once she knows that you know....you will have to be very tough, b/c the last you need is for her to realize you know about her A and that you are not doing anything about it. Know what I mean?
A lot of WW's immediately announce they want a D, if confronted. In other words, things usually become worse, which the LBH is not prepared to handle. You are already in shock, so I say to wait... for a while, anyway.
How should i do this while making it known i want to still attempt to fix our M?
If you have read my three threads about help for a newcomer LBH who has a WW, then you will know that a WW should wonder how you feel about things (especially after discovering the A). She needs to wonder what you may do. So, IMO, you should not be so fast in assuring her of anything, at the moment. Otherwise, she will try to have the best from both men.
Hello Sandi2
I did just read your threads on a new LBH and it helped make me see im not alone. I appear to have fallen right into the trap of most things you say will 'happen'and need to stop in order to turn things around.
When it comes to exposing, it something part of me thinks could work because she is so secretive and very religious, although not acting like it. I dont know how i can look at her knowing this happened and pretend its ok when she comes home and tries to me all nice, or make small talk. I been trying to DB for a couple months for as many of the list as i can, but obviously keep having setbacks, or the timing wasn’t right for stuff as i think it would have been perceived to make things worse. I feel without letting her know i 'know about her cheating" my actions will just be seen as standoffish or ignoring her for no reason and since 'lack of affection' was an issue, she my think ive fallen back to old habits or i just dont care?
During our last talk, she got made when I let her know “im not stupid and im sick of being treated like a fool and disrespected”. I then brought up the religious aspect, and as I have been reading about it more as a way of improving myself since she had wanted me to show more interested, I said I looked up in the bible (something she strongly believes in) what is mentioned about marriages and infidelity. She went crazy, and yelled for a couple minutes “don’t bring God into this…etc” and said “I’m Done”, so I left her alone to think. She then came to bed and still kissed me goodnight, and then acted ok the next morning… this was the day before I actually found the proof of the A. She cares deeply about her image also so I didn’t know if that could be used, at least so people she has been lying about me and the real issue too, which is mostly why im wondering? She is making me out to be the bad guy only…
Should i tell her to leave?
What do you want?
I feel like ive been a doormat to much and now she is just taking advantage,
If you feel like a doormat, then there's a good chance you've filled the position. A WW will take advantage, even of the toughest guys. That is how she thinks and operates.
i am falling apart and just trying to hold myself togather.
Then don't confront yet. Don't discuss anything with her until you can control your own emotions.
should i expose to everyone and let everyone know i still want to work on my M.
I don't think you are ready for any moves such as that. You are desperate and wanting to do something to shock sense into her. However, you likely will kick it into higher gear if you go at this unprepared.
When it comes to exposing, it something part of me thinks could work because she is so secretive and very religious, although not acting like it.
You don't really want to shame or embarrass her back into the R, do you? Do you want her back regardless of how you get her?
I feel without letting her know i 'know about her cheating" my actions will just be seen as standoffish or ignoring her for no reason and since 'lack of affection' was an issue, she my think ive fallen back to old habits or i just dont care?
That is why I am saying you aren't prepared. There are links on this subject, but you are too emotional to digest it all.
I feel without letting her know i 'know about her cheating" my actions will just be seen as standoffish or ignoring her for no reason and since 'lack of affection' was an issue, she my think ive fallen back to old habits or i just dont care?
No, that is your own fear talking. A WW doesn't care about your feelings.
You are the one who is scared to back away and not get
her affection (which you said it was killing you). I think every newcomer LBH says this same thing, but it's not her, it's
you.
I then brought up the religious aspect, and as I have been reading about it more as a way of improving myself since she had wanted me to show more interested, I said I looked up in the bible (something she strongly believes in) what is mentioned about marriages and infidelity. She went crazy, and yelled for a couple minutes “don’t bring God into this…etc”
Man, you are really grabbing for straws, trying to guilt her back. You said she was very religious. So was I, believe it or not. My H pulled the same stunt with me, and I reacted just like your W. She sees you preaching to her, and it does not work!! Don't you think she knows what it has to say about adultery? You are trying to guilt and shame her!
She cares deeply about her image also so I didn’t know if that could be used, at least so people she has been lying about me and the real issue too, which is mostly why im wondering?
Used to do what? There is a right way and a wrong way to DB. Guilt, shame, and punishment does not work. Those things are not attractive in a man, and it will not bring about love in a woman's heart.
Having an A means she has lost respect for you. She doesn't desire you. She must respect you as a man, before she can love you. She needs to feel attraction for you, but the things you are wanting to do will not bring about that attraction for her.
Angels
This is really going to sound far fetched to you, but truly an A and an OM are in the long term less important than you taking care of you.
Only a tiny minority of As survive long term. OMs who seduce married women are scuzz buckets and eventually show true colours. Infatuation is an addiction and it's called limerance. At this stage WW will be so hormonally charged she can't see the truth about scuzz. The more you focus on it the more it becomes you and me babe against H. It's lurve isn't it?
Well actually no it's not.
That does not stop it hurting and being something you want differently. Right now you are in the emotional state of wanting to take action that might be knee jerking.
Sandi is correct in every respect and wise beyond measure, you are fortunate to have such a wonderful guide. Read her words carefully over and over.
A cool head and detachment are essential before you act on boundaries that are not properly set.
Stillness, space and prayer (meditation) will help you breathe. Settle, relax and consider as your actions may cause you to act in damaging ways which are hard to repair.
Peace
V
Should i tell her to leave?
1. What do you want?
I feel like ive been a doormat to much and now she is just taking advantage,
2. If you feel like a doormat, then there's a good chance you've filled the position. A WW will take advantage, even of the toughest guys. That is how she thinks and operates.
i am falling apart and just trying to hold myself togather.
3. Then don't confront yet. Don't discuss anything with her until you can control your own emotions.
should i expose to everyone and let everyone know i still want to work on my M.
4. I don't think you are ready for any moves such as that. You are desperate and wanting to do something to shock sense into her. However, you likely will kick it into higher gear if you go at this unprepared.
1. I do not want her to leave, i love my wife, i have made that known and want to work on things. I just read other place if the A is still ongoing, there can be no improvement to the M until that stops. I do not want her to leave, and you are probably right, i would have even more pain because at least when she is here, i know where she is so my mind can calm down and not be dreading.
2. Your absolutely right, which is why im trying to change then and 'man back up'. Obviously cheating on me is unacceptable and disrespectful. I have come out of the delusion i was i and i do see the gravity and what im dealing with now...
3. i am able to control my emotions, i do have moments and fall apart when im alone, which i thought was healthy? But i can carry a conversion with her while staying calm like the one i mentioned before. While the content was apparently bad, i was very calm about it, even after she flamed on me
4. you are probably right, i do want to shock her back into reality, but i understand what your saying and i guess there is no way to do that right now which wont make things worse
When it comes to exposing, it something part of me thinks could work because she is so secretive and very religious, although not acting like it.
You don't really want to shame or embarrass her back into the R, do you? Do you want her back regardless of how you get her?
I feel without letting her know i 'know about her cheating" my actions will just be seen as standoffish or ignoring her for no reason and since 'lack of affection' was an issue, she my think ive fallen back to old habits or i just dont care?
That is why I am saying you aren't prepared. There are links on this subject, but you are too emotional to digest it all.
I feel without letting her know i 'know about her cheating" my actions will just be seen as standoffish or ignoring her for no reason and since 'lack of affection' was an issue, she my think ive fallen back to old habits or i just dont care?
No, that is your own fear talking. A WW doesn't care about your feelings.
You are the one who is scared to back away and not get
her affection (which you said it was killing you). I think every newcomer LBH says this same thing, but it's not her, it's
you.
I then brought up the religious aspect, and as I have been reading about it more as a way of improving myself since she had wanted me to show more interested, I said I looked up in the bible (something she strongly believes in) what is mentioned about marriages and infidelity. She went crazy, and yelled for a couple minutes “don’t bring God into this…etc”
Man, you are really grabbing for straws, trying to guilt her back. You said she was very religious. So was I, believe it or not. My H pulled the same stunt with me, and I reacted just like your W. She sees you preaching to her, and it does not work!! Don't you think she knows what it has to say about adultery? You are trying to guilt and shame her!
She cares deeply about her image also so I didn’t know if that could be used, at least so people she has been lying about me and the real issue too, which is mostly why im wondering?
Used to do what? There is a right way and a wrong way to DB. Guilt, shame, and punishment does not work. Those things are not attractive in a man, and it will not bring about love in a woman's heart.
Having an A means she has lost respect for you. She doesn't desire you. She must respect you as a man, before she can love you. She needs to feel attraction for you, but the things you are wanting to do will not bring about that attraction for her.
Well, i want my wife back because she does mean everything to me and my M and what it stands for has always been important, but i understand what your saying and if she is 'shamed' back, she would always be resentful most likely? Thinking of this more, i can see how since she tends to run, like now, instead of facing the issues and working on them, this plan could backfire because she could just plain run... thanks
you are correct about my 'fear', i would be lying if i said i am not terrified of everything happening right now. i saw in your other 'newbie' thread and i def match the part of how i feel very 'i cant do anything right', or the 'damned if you do, damned if you dont'. Its like when she wants to leave to go home and i now know where she is going, should i stop her or just let her go, knowing where she is going? following the DB approach, i should just let her go... but how can that be rationalized and not considered enabling?
i see what you are saying about the guilt and i guess i didn't see how much i was doing that. that you for letting me know that is how i am being viewed.
and you are right she has lost respect and and clearly doesn't act attracted to me anymore. I guess thats why i was so worried about why i should put a stop to the A. To make it clear, i have been DBing with myself and i think she has noticed as i have heard she 'loves' the things im doing to the house etc... so i guess thats a positive. I have returned to working out, doing chores and working on house projects. I have recently starting to reconnect with my friends too as i know i need there support through this and they all already knew something was up... to further db though, it sounds like from what your saying im still too attached and pursuing/begging by way of guilt and i need to stop that. I guess for now i will try and look the other way this weekend regardless of how i feel. i will try my best to hide it and just stay busy with the house/yard
i have noticed if im quite, like last night after i saw the true evidence of the A, she does act very nice and start talking and questioning like "is everything ok" or why are you just staring at the tv and not talking, or you didn't come see me when i came in the door (last night). She almost looks upset when i do this and i can see the concern grow, so is that why i need to keep trying to force from her? make that feeling of her grow more? or is that also just a game and it basically means nothing...
i have also stopped cuddling her at night after i mistakenly smothered her, and after the 2 weeks of no touching and back to me, i noticed last night that the last 3 nights she has gone to sleep facing me and scooting closer and i can see her staring at my lack of movement out of the corner of my eye...
thank you for your help so far, its nice to know im not alone and while slim, its possible to come back from this disaster. She is currently getting groceries, getting dinner and renting a movie for us. Even with the A she still acts so normal with day to day stuff, im so confused how she can do this...?
Hey Angels,
I'm sorry you are in this situation. You have already attracted some heavy hitters to your thread, so heed their advice.
I was wondering if you've had a chance to read UpperCut's 3 threads in Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy? Here are the links:
1)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2496690&page=all2)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2509227&page=all3)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2528952#Post2528952The thing that strikes me about UC's thread is the level-headedness UC demonstrates through the process. He really is at his center for all his interactions with his W. I encourage you to read through it and envision yourself having that centeredness in dealing with your W.
I also love the advice given, in particular by Starsky309. Please look at it and envision yourself saying similar things when he advises UC on how to react to W's actions and words. Centered. Focused. Planned.
Unfortunately, UC hasn't achieved his goal yet. And that happens sometimes. But did UC give his best effort and do things that gave him the best chance at achieving his goal? I think so.
I hope you achieve your goals Angels. I'll be praying for you.
Hi Angels,
I am sorry for the situation you are in. The best advice I can give you is to speak with a Divorce Busting Coach today.
You have a lot a of questions regarding if you should confront your wife with what you know or not. You need to be very careful with how you proceed from this point forward.
Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best guidance on how to save your marriage and get things moving in a more positive direction. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Should i tell her to leave?
1. What do you want?
I feel like ive been a doormat to much and now she is just taking advantage,
2. If you feel like a doormat, then there's a good chance you've filled the position. A WW will take advantage, even of the toughest guys. That is how she thinks and operates.
i am falling apart and just trying to hold myself togather.
3. Then don't confront yet. Don't discuss anything with her until you can control your own emotions.
should i expose to everyone and let everyone know i still want to work on my M.
4. I don't think you are ready for any moves such as that. You are desperate and wanting to do something to shock sense into her. However, you likely will kick it into higher gear if you go at this unprepared.
1. i would have even more pain because at least when she is here, i know where she is so my mind can calm down and not be dreading.
Hi Angels - Im so sorry youre here, but youve gotten a ton of great advice already. After reading all of it, this one line here really struck me.
Worrying about this right now is like closing the barn door after the horse has already run away. Your wife has already said she wants a divorce and is in the throes of an affair. What difference does it make if you know where she is? Are you going to follow her around the rest of your life to make sure she doesnt see OM again? The more you push and cling, and hang on, the more she is going to try to sneak around.
Heres another analogy; if youre walking along, and something grabs onto your leg, you are going to try to shake it off, right? What if it won't let go? You shake harder, right? This is what your wife is trying to do! Youve been laying it on so thick and clinging so tightly, that its making her shake harder so that you can get the idea to LET GO.
Look, everyone here is here because at one time or another, they were just where you are now: in complete love with a spouse that wants to leave them. Im not sure how much you have read the DR/DB books, but the next step is to STOP PURSUING them. Everything you have tried so far hasnt worked - the extra affection, the trips, the cleaning, the cooking, etc...Now, it's time to do the opposite.
Leave. Her. Alone.
There are so many threads on detachment, that I wont try to rehash in a sentence or two. But you need to find your own way, so that you can LIVE YOUR LIFE for you. Your wife has already fired you. You cannot "nice" her back to your marriage. You cannot shame or punish her back to your marriage. The only way to get her back is to get her interested in you as a man and partner again. And the only way to do that is to turn yourself into that man.
So read and re-read the homework threads. It's time to detach. it's time to get your own life. It's a hard road, it's a lot of work, but it's worth it, because you deserve it. You dont deserve to be somebody's plan B.
Have you bought the books yet?
Have you bought the books yet?
In the process...
Thanks for the help guys, especially Sandi! I hope you will continue to follow this thread and i will update when i get a chance as how things are going. I am trying to apply what you are all saying even if it seems so backwards to me right now. I am trying to keep conversations very short though and only try not to be rude basically, and answer when asked. Im trying to stay busy around the house and stuff so im not just 'sitting in front of the tv' or anything like before, unless she does. We watch a lot of movies together, so im not sure if i should try and stop that, or when she offers, just say sure and go along as we always have? also i wanted and offered to go to the movies this weekend, which is nothing out of the normal, should i be stopping that as well?
i can tell the big struggle Sandi helped me see, is as much as I lie to myself, im still too emotional. i have to fight crying off still when i concentrate to much on us, and i am not a 'cryer'. I am better about hiding it though, i do not let her see me, i just walk out of the room composed and go to the bathroom or outside with the dog. She has cuaght me 'glaring' as she put it since she doesn't know i know, and i just said i was just looking at you playing on your phone in the corner and walked away. I just keep envisioning her and the OM and the messages/emails i read. My question is, what do i do when she wants to get intimate? Im very sexual so starving myself hurts as it is, but im not sure i can look at her the same right now since i 100% saw the proof she slept with OM, and so recently. We have not been intimate since then. She's talking about hanging out with her BFF again soon, who is against us now, so im sure thats another ploy to go see him... is getting intimate a bad thing? or should i just ensure i do no be the one to initiate it?
I have seen the texts previously where her friend and her mock my 'stupidity' thinking they are pulling something over me when she saw the OM, which is why i was wondering if i should call her out on it with the evidence or not. For now, i am listen and trusting you all while i sit back...
as some more background to help with my sitch also, as i stated before, i have apologized for my neglectfulness and essentially taking her for granted that helped start the issue of her not trying. she had accepted it months ago and seemed sincere, but obviously she is still holding a grudge and not working on things, especially now that she deeply in the A. Anyways, what got my attention was when i was being ignored, I realize today, she was GAL and thats what got me to come back. This was when i said I came back on way to strong. Before that, she had tried to get my attention and i was too stupid to see it, which i discovered myself by 'replying' our convo's in my head, reading old texts, etc... im so mad at myself for missing these signs. Anyways, she still is working, hanging out with the girls alot (i know she is with them), working out, so my real question is, if she is still GAL, should i be also? What if we are both GAL? She certainly is, so i want to make sure this doesn't change anything with how i should be applying the DB's?
thanks you all so far for reading, helping!
anyone have advise for the above? Im really afraid that there is a potential we are both GAL'ing right now and its putting a further wedge between is. I kind of did that before without knowing it, and when she pushed more, i was stupid and oblivious... i feel she is doing it to me, so should i also be DBing right now? i feel that's important to add to my horrible and confusing stich...?
anyone have advise for the above? Im really afraid that there is a potential we are both GAL'ing right now and its putting a further wedge between is. I kind of did that before without knowing it, and when she pushed more, i was stupid and oblivious... i feel she is doing it to me, so should i also be DBing right now? i feel that's important to add to my horrible and confusing stich...?
Yes you should be DB'ing
Trust the Process.
As Mr. Bond says read the books.
Are you thinking that something magical is going to turn this around?
anyone have advise for the above? Im really afraid that there is a potential we are both GAL'ing right now and its putting a further wedge between is. I kind of did that before without knowing it, and when she pushed more, i was stupid and oblivious... i feel she is doing it to me, so should i also be DBing right now? i feel that's important to add to my horrible and confusing stich...?
Yes you should be DB'ing
Trust the Process.
As Mr. Bond says read the books.
Are you thinking that something magical is going to turn this around?
OK, i am continuing to apply the DB's. in my post on the last page, i just wanted to share that because part of me thinks i did this, it worked and i was too stupid to see that and missed the chance. Now she is doing it and obviously entranced in the A. Thanks for being honest though, that's why i joined here, i want to save my M and i need people to help and tell me if im delusional over thinking or just wrong...
can you please look at my other post about the intimacy question? i am not sure how to handle that...
also the fact she is basically mocking my 'stupidity' of not knowing about the A and believing she is getting away with it. Any advice to look past this? isn't that being a doormat? Im not arguing, im just trying to wrap my head around this and what to do. Obviously i know im not able to rationalize completely with my actions but im making sure i think everything though and do not speak when im upset...
Let's start here:
Why do you WANT to be intimate with her while you know she's in an A?
also the fact she is basically mocking my 'stupidity' of not knowing about the A and believing she is getting away with it. Any advice to look past this? isn't that being a doormat? Im not arguing, im just trying to wrap my head around this and what to do. Obviously i know im not able to rationalize completely with my actions but im making sure i think everything though and do not speak when im upset...
Hey Angels, Sorry you are in this crap situation.
That part about mocking your stupidity really made me feel badly for you. Because I know exactly what you mean and how awful that is. In fact it is one of the worst parts of the affair to me, the fact that they think they tricked me.
I know how awful it is but maybe think of it this way. You are NOT stupid. They think they tricked you and you don't know. But you do. So who's stupid now? ha.
You don't need to confront her and tell her you know and that you are not stupid. At this point the smart thing for you to do is focus on yourself.
As some others said, right now is not the time to confront her. She is in the deep fog of the affair. She doesn't give a rat's arse about you. It doesn't matter how much you try to guilt her or reason with her. It won't work.
Take steps to protect yourself and focus on you.
Good luck!
Let's start here:
Why do you WANT to be intimate with her while you know she's in an A?
Because as i felt her going away from me, this was an area that was never an issue for us, even when we would fight we would connect intimately. Even while she was basically GAL or ignoring me, this intimacy kept me going, and gave me the strength to keep DBing myself and live with the nagging and pure hurtfulness or hatred she is pushing on me. This lack of intimacy is new and only the last month which is exactly the timeline i know now when she turned physical. However, since im the only one that knows this, im conflicted if it helps her ease her guilt, so by sleeping with me, im kind of enabling her to continue the A? Is this a correct mindset?
my question though, since lack of affection was a big issues she identified before (stuff other then sex), wouldn't rejecting to sleep with her (without saying the reason), basically just push her away faster to the OM? Why would she have any reason stop then? Again, im just trying to learn the methodology behind what im trying to do?
i think ive posted to much in the last 2 pages, perhaps i should let other chime in also. I am sorry for the long posts, being a fast typer and a racing mind has many cons
1. I do not want her to leave, i love my wife, i have made that known and want to work on things. I just read other place if the A is still ongoing, there can be no improvement to the M until that stops. I do not want her to leave, and you are probably right, i would have even more pain because at least when she is here, i know where she is so my mind can calm down and not be dreading.
I understand. I agree that the A needs to end. I was responding to your question about having her to leave. Make sure you know what it is that you want, before jumping off the ledge.
i am able to control my emotions, i do have moments and fall apart when im alone, which i thought was healthy
?
Sure, as long as it's not in front of her, or she can hear you.
you are correct about my 'fear', i would be lying if i said i am not terrified of everything happening right now. i saw in your other 'newbie' thread and i def match the part of how i feel very 'i cant do anything right', or the 'damned if you do, damned if you dont'. Its like when she wants to leave to go home and i now know where she is going, should i stop her or just let her go, knowing where she is going? following the DB approach, i should just let her go... but how can that be rationalized and not considered enabling?
There may be times you will think you can't do anything right here, too. It's b/c there are so many threads and we get to posting in shorter clip note versions. Can't cover everything in a post or two, and sometimes we forget to say what you did right. But we do have some who are gifted in that area.
I think you were referring to not doing anything right with your WW, and that's very true. To her, you are what's wrong in her life and she's not wanting to see the good parts. She will resist it with all her might. That's why talking about good memories, showing pictures, or another person praising you will set off her anger. So, forget about doing something right in her viewpoint. Instead, focus on what you believe to be the "right" thing to do. That includes your values and standards. It includes your personal boundaries.
Okay, about her leaving under the guise of seeing her foks. Here is my question........what could you do to stop her from leaving? If she knows you know about her meeting OM, then you can refuse to finance the trip in any way, but otherwise, what could you do? Just be prepared for her to play you up as the bad guy to her parents (b/c she will lie to them).
My advice is to not place any focus on those trips. Don't ask her questions, b/c that gives it attention and focus. Don't show that you are upset. Don't say anything about her contacting you when she gets there or calling the kids every night, etc. And never contact her if it's not a matter of life & death. No guilt messages, no trick questions, etc. You set her free to make her own choices. You focus on what it means to DB detach and GAL. This is very key for the LBS.
I have noticed if im quite, like last night after i saw the true evidence of the A, she does act very nice and start talking and questioning like "is everything ok" or why are you just staring at the tv and not talking, or you didn't come see me when i came in the door (last night). She almost looks upset when i do this and i can see the concern grow, so is that why i need to keep trying to force from her? make that feeling of her grow more? or is that also just a game and it basically means nothing...
Right now, she may be a little on edge and watching you for signs that you know about the A. She sees you being too quite and not paying her attention, so her alarm bell sounds off. If she's upset, I assure you it's not b/c she is concerned about how you feel........but she wants everything to continue on as it has, with her secret A and her H never the wiser.
There have been many women who continue this scenario even after the A is out in the open. As if to say, "What's wrong, why aren't you happy"?
. Crazy! Shows how removed they are from reality.
She is currently getting groceries, getting dinner and renting a movie for us. Even with the A she still acts so normal with day to day stuff, im so confused how she can do this...?
But you see, that's what she does to throw you off track about her secret. She knows the minute she stops with the normal routine of the day, you are going to suspect something. This is one of the reasons a H can be so deceived by a WW. He trusts her and doesn't see anything he can't cover with an excuse for her. Eventually, she gets more careless as her H seems to turn a b,ind eye, and that's usually when she hangs herself.
That is why I wanted you to get more DB and information under your belt before you decide to make any big steps. These things need to be thought out......beyond simply confronting her. You need to think what you will say if she says she wants to D you and M OM....or she flatly dismisses it, or she insists you move out. You have to have a p,an beyond simply letting her know that you are aware of her A. And btw, never reveal everything you know.......or the source. The first thing she would want to know is how you found out.
There have been many women who continue this scenario even after the A is out in the open. As if to say, "What's wrong, why aren't you happy"? smirk. Crazy! Shows how removed they are from reality.
This is my life.
Thanks Sandi for helping me understand what is happening inside her head right now. I understand what your saying, and why she is being so resentful now. I'm trying to act normal, but obviously it is so hard to be 'happy' when we do so much together, even now...
This also happens when her BFF (my old mutual friend who was 'helping' until i found out she was actually not helping but just making us both happen and actually supporting my wife to be 'happy', 'you only live once' and have the A). She has a TON of influence on my wife and they are so close i thought as first they had something going on to be honest. Since me and her BFF's fallout which my wife knows about, she will now also call me out or ask "why don't you smile, or joke with me anymore when she comes over, of course in front of my wife). Since i know she helps plan this, and cover or lie to my face previously, it has put me in a extremely hard spot of playing 'nice'.
Angels
Jim has a word for that type of friend Poisonous Friend PF. I like that because a BFF wouldn't encourage WW away from her M and into an A. Don't pick up the poison cup and drink, avoid contact if you can; pleasantries as you would with the work gossip.
Please stop mind reading WW. It would help if you accept that an A is an absorbing thing whilst in its first stages and that WW will do anything to continue to get her hormonal fix. Apparent normality is part of the game that some WW play. Frankly that is good because the covertness means concern at least for their own sitch. I would be more concerned if WW was brazen like say Schermans WW, as in saying "I am in an A, I like it and won't stop." Sneaky stuff implies an issue requiring covertness and possible impediment. Good news. There is also "he is only a friend" strategy too, denial rules.
At this stage although it appears to be awful and hurtful, see WW being absent as a positive thing for your PMA. Have plans for that space solid GAL plans. Take GAL action for you Angels.
In house S is very tough, I managed it for 15 months and it's really hard going, see this short break as a breathing space for you. You are standing for your M and making change. Good for you. When the time is right you will set your boundaries on OM, when you are stronger. I can see baby steps plus you are reading the wise words of Sandi and she is on your team.
Peace and stillness
V
Let's start here:
Why do you WANT to be intimate with her while you know she's in an A?
Because as i felt her going away from me, this was an area that was never an issue for us, even when we would fight we would connect intimately. Even while she was basically GAL or ignoring me, this intimacy kept me going, and gave me the strength to keep DBing myself and live with the nagging and pure hurtfulness or hatred she is pushing on me. This lack of intimacy is new and only the last month which is exactly the timeline i know now when she turned physical. However, since im the only one that knows this, im conflicted if it helps her ease her guilt, so by sleeping with me, im kind of enabling her to continue the A? Is this a correct mindset?
my question though, since lack of affection was a big issues she identified before (stuff other then sex), wouldn't rejecting to sleep with her (without saying the reason), basically just push her away faster to the OM? Why would she have any reason stop then? Again, im just trying to learn the methodology behind what im trying to do?
i think ive posted to much in the last 2 pages, perhaps i should let other chime in also. I am sorry for the long posts, being a fast typer and a racing mind has many cons
Don't apologize for posting too much. The more you type, the more everyone can understand your thoughts and goals and fears, etc. when I first joined, someone told me "electrons are cheap". People are reading. Don't worry about it.
I'm still a little confused. She hasn't been trying to be intimate for the last month. So how would you be rejecting to sleep with HER? Sandi has posted many times (sorry if I mess up the wording!) that women are only romantically interested in one man at a time - there isn't anything that you can do on a sexual basis to compete if she is interested in OM at this moment. If it were me, I would stop any romantic interactions with her, why would you want to settle for being her Plan B?
The bigger point, I think, is that your mindset is still way too focused on her and clinging to her. She is sleeping with another man - how much FARTHER away can you push her? Instead, your only choice is to let her go. You take the focus off of her, put it on making you the best Angels possible. Move forward with your life.
Let's start here:
Why do you WANT to be intimate with her while you know she's in an A?
Because as i felt her going away from me, this was an area that was never an issue for us, even when we would fight we would connect intimately. Even while she was basically GAL or ignoring me, this intimacy kept me going, and gave me the strength to keep DBing myself and live with the nagging and pure hurtfulness or hatred she is pushing on me. This lack of intimacy is new and only the last month which is exactly the timeline i know now when she turned physical. However, since im the only one that knows this, im conflicted if it helps her ease her guilt, so by sleeping with me, im kind of enabling her to continue the A? Is this a correct mindset?
my question though, since lack of affection was a big issues she identified before (stuff other then sex), wouldn't rejecting to sleep with her (without saying the reason), basically just push her away faster to the OM? Why would she have any reason stop then? Again, im just trying to learn the methodology behind what im trying to do?
i think ive posted to much in the last 2 pages, perhaps i should let other chime in also. I am sorry for the long posts, being a fast typer and a racing mind has many cons
Don't apologize for posting too much. The more you type, the more everyone can understand your thoughts and goals and fears, etc. when I first joined, someone told me "electrons are cheap". People are reading. Don't worry about it.
I'm still a little confused. She hasn't been trying to be intimate for the last month. So how would you be rejecting to sleep with HER? Sandi has posted many times (sorry if I mess up the wording!) that women are only romantically interested in one man at a time - there isn't anything that you can do on a sexual basis to compete if she is interested in OM at this moment. If it were me, I would stop any romantic interactions with her, why would you want to settle for being her Plan B?
The bigger point, I think, is that your mindset is still way too focused on her and clinging to her. She is sleeping with another man - how much FARTHER away can you push her? Instead, your only choice is to let her go. You take the focus off of her, put it on making you the best Angels possible. Move forward with your life.
thanks for the reply. I think your right, even though i am doing things for myself now without asking, i'm still wondering what shes thinking or doing instead of basically just not caring, like you are suggesting. Also the PF is now horrible, she used to play both sides (which i saw the messages of when i read and discovered everything) but since the fallout of calling her out, now she is against me and i think pushing the W away because of it out of her own anger for being called out as attacking my marriage, even though i was 100% right (which i know, i know, doesn't matter anymore). I wish i would have come here before that because im sure you all would have told me that was a bad idea to call her out on giving my W bad advice.
What sandi posted i believe spot on about only being able to be intimate with one person in her mind (which destroys me). What i meant by intimate was not just the sex, but the feeling you get when you are connected, if that makes sense? Not just sex, but the intimacy when your both pleasing one another and into it. We always had that regardless if she was unhappy or mad. Starting a month ago, what i meant was, the passion left. There is basically no kissing, no foreplay for me, not really even effort on her part, that's what i have noticed. She is obviously just appeasing me and pretty much just lays there now, like she could care less. She also barely looks at me (closes eyes) which is extremely hurtful because from what sandi said, im sure shes pretending its not me... I guess in a way, thats what i meant by rejection, combined with just the flat out rejection when she makes up an excuse for not being in the mood. We used to be extremely active, now i dont think it would ever happen if i dont initiate it. Thats was something i always felt i needed as a man to keep myself from drifting, if that makes sense?
We did get intimate this morning, it had been weeks because i couldn't take it. However, to the best i could think of in terms of DBing in my mind i tried to apply. I kept it quick, didnt cuddle, and i made sure i was the one who left first to shower like it didn't really matter. I guess thats the only thing i could do. I just tried to have my own fun i guess and didn't try to make it intimate where i could be rejected (like kissing). It has now become purely physical which honestly, doesn't even seem worth it... god this is hard.
I will post more later. She sits next to me and i do NOT want her to see this forum obviously as people have pointed out. Any advice on the above or previous stuff i will read intently when i get a chance later!
Angels, I would venture to say that is more about your need to be intimate, rather than hers. The fact that you want to have sex with your W in spite of knowing about the A, is not that uncommon for a LBS. If pysical touch is your LL, then of course you miss it very much. You feel security in it. I wonder though, if subconsciously you see having sex as a fixer to the problems of the M. It once was great, so why wouldn't it trigger her positive emotions again, right?
Having sex with your W (at this time) is obviously a very personal choice. However, in choosing to have sex......don"t fool yourself into believing it will work magic on her. The dynamics of the MR has changed.
Angels, I would venture to say that is more about your need to be intimate, rather than hers. The fact that you want to have sex with your W in spite of knowing about the A, is not that uncommon for a LBS. If pysical touch is your LL, then of course you miss it very much. You feel security in it. I wonder though, if subconsciously you see having sex as a fixer to the problems of the M. It once was great, so why wouldn't it trigger her positive emotions again, right?
Having sex with your W (at this time) is obviously a very personal choice. However, in choosing to have sex......don"t fool yourself into believing it will work magic on her. The dynamics of the MR has changed.
I would have to agree right now it is about my own need. Im glad to hear its not that uncommon and yes i am very physical and thats defiantly my LL, which makes this whole thing even worse. That is how i feel connected (like most guys im assuming), so not only does this hurt because it doesn't feel intimate, but because she shared this with someone else. That’s really what has destroyed me mentally... Also i do not think sex will fix anything especailly now. That is not something that i have tried or expected
I have been talking to a couple close friends of mine who are very supportive and they can see how it has affected me and how quite I am (the whole problem, but just this). Im wondering if the shock has actually fully hit me yet, or if I have been surpassing it by GAL, and avoiding it because I need a plan of how to expose it like you have all made me see. I get now it needs to be more ‘formal’ and not just attacking and totally emotion driven… that would not end well
As some more notes, I guess I should update on this weekend as I have some more questions/actions from her and I need help with what to do. So first off, I trust you guys and I did NOT disclose anything about my knowledge of the A, as hard as it got when she would talk to me, especially when I know she was texted him and the PF (which is basically another EA at this point with the time they spend together, the PF is divorced and having trouble also in her current M). Im sure of this because they were face timing (couldn’t hear), but I walked in, it was silent for about 2 mins and then the PF just started talking about random crap, and sayinf “that’s cool your working on the house” but the pause and the way my W looked at me when I walked in was obvious I was a subject, or the OM. The basically ended the conversation and hung up after another couple mins.
Anways, so Saturday we went to a movie, that was pretty good, but like ive been saying, we still get along when we do things, more like friends though, not lovers. I wanted to go and asked, I guess following the DBs I shouldn’t have... We also watched a couple movies at the house and Tv shows. Since made dinner and breakfast as that hasn’t stopped. I have to do almost all the chores now though. For the last two weeks I have continued DBing and not saying “love you, especially “I”, and so it’s continued and I haven’t heard it in that time. This [censored] so badly knowing it used to be important to her! Also before bed, or leaving for work we always would, however that has stopped unless I initiate it (which I don’t anymore since DBing). She will always still reciprocate, but im done saying it just to make her and it didn’t sound real anymore. If she wants too, she will initiate it one of these times. Now I just get a ‘night’ before bed, or a ‘have a nice day’ before work (which I start). I tried saying nothing and man did she get mad saying I was ‘rude’ or “WTF”, so I caved and always say ‘have a nice day’ first, maybe I should stop this? Sorry for the side track… I do leave first though so it kind of makes sense. We also never cuddle anymore which she said was something she said we were lacking and she needed, if I try though, she will say “im too hot” or “you don’t have to do it every night” or “I don’t feel like it”, so since DBing I also just don’t attempt this since being a physical person this rejection [censored] for me too, so why set myself up right?
Sunday was ok, but again, just more like friends. I already stated I couldn’t take it for myself and initiated being intimate in the morning but it was more of the same, just physical with basically not emotions from her (or me this time). I saw her smile when I started so part of me wish I wouldn’t have thinking back. I believe before this like I stated, I think she was onto I knew something, because I hadn’t tried in weeks and may have been questioning herself. I kind of let her off the hook I fear? This was the first time I had touched her since finding out the A was physical. After that, she made breakfast, and we went to church together. The whole sermon was about temptation and overcoming it, and the power of women, so good timing? However, as faithful as she used to be, like sadni pointed out, I think that is gone. I was watching her reaction and it didn’t appear to faze her let alone sink in. After we got back I just did my project on the house while she did her thing and tried to not care what she was doing or talking to in other areas of the house. At night, I ended dinner, I went to shower first and went to bed first, all switches from our old routine. She even looked at me with the “what are you doing face” as I was the first to go upstairs (leaving her) to shower/bed.
Now for the Q’s. Marriage counseling, I had been pushing for this and at first I got the “we don’t need this” two month ago, so I stopped. I had been mentioning it a couple times since then asking if she wanted to try, however, since finding out about the A being where it is, I stopped, and even canceled an appointment I had setup. Well this weekend, she asked about it (supposed to be next week) and I said if you want to I will set it up. So, id this a good thing? I feel its just her appeasing me or going through the motions… she is still in the A and talking to OM so what good would this do? Also, how can I go to this without confront the physical A, which is our biggest issue. Ive even seen where she has texted OM now saying if they didn’t talk, me and her would have likely fixed things by now. Let me tell you, this killed me to see this knowing that’s really the cause of everything! So MC, should I do it or not? Should I confront her there? I just cant see how you could go and ignore that issues, even the MC I found knows about it because I told them when they asked on the phone…
Another thing since I saw it in other threads, my close friends (mutual to us) do know about the A, and the MIL knows and has kept it a secret. She is 100% against divorce and on my said, she has even seen my W act disrespectful when I did nothing wrong as family outings etc…. I told her for now, to do NOTHING until I tell her I have a plan and will confront her. I know I have to be the one to confront her. I believe having her on my side is extremely good though as they are close. She respects my decision though and that I have stayed fighting for the M this long. Sandi mentioned that an I just wanted that out there that she is an Ally and a huge influencer on my W.
Out of curiosity, what do you hope to gain from marriage counseling?
If you are going to talk about trying to reconcile , I think it may be more damaging than helpful. But I'll let the vets chime in.
Since made dinner and breakfast as that hasn’t stopped. I have to do almost all the chores now though.
Why?
Since made dinner and breakfast as that hasn’t stopped. I have to do almost all the chores now though.
Why?
I dont know, she just doesn't anymore, or her fair share i should say. Its like she is doing to me what she felt i did to her in the beginning of the issues to be honest, even before the A i mean. Anyways, something like the dishes i tried to DB and test her and literally went 4 days where neither of us did them so i got to the point i couldn't take it and did them. Obviously she was waiting for me because i KNOW it bothered her to have them sitting there, lol. IS that me caving? i dont know... i see it as part of the 'improved me' since i didn't do them before. If i stay on top of them, what is 5 mins a night, right? Let me know if this is wrong though... this does add to if im the one being db'd also though like i mentioned earlier, i noticed the last couple weeks, she does only do 'hers' she only bring her dinner to the table so i have to get mine, and she only cleans her area. Same with other cleaning stuff like the laundry. She only does stuff affecting her directly, nothing with the house... Obviously in my opinion, when things were good, we should be taking terms and it doesn't matter 'whose is whose'...
Out of curiosity, what do you hope to gain from marriage counseling?
If you are going to talk about trying to reconcile , I think it may be more damaging than helpful. But I'll let the vets chime in.
i dont know, this is why i posted it. I originally said i want to go to show and effort of wanting to repair our M. She said we didnt need it (obviously lying to herself or me). Now 3 months later, she has finally agreed to go, however, since i know she still have the A i haven't confronted yet, i dont see this as a good thing because its clearly out biggest issues in terms of whats blocking us from repairing the M. There is no way a MC wouldn't get this out instantly, and i wouldn't want to lie about it because then its just wasting everyone's time. I met with my own counselor today, she couldn't believe i was able to play nice this long without confronting, said it wasnt healthy for me. I am now able to talk about it opening without getting upset. I think it may be time to get sandi's or starskys help on the correct way to go about this? I know i need a plan and there are good/bad things to say and approaches to take... the knowledge of knowing this is seriously starting to get to me. I almost would rather get it so at least the fear is gone and i can deal with what the next step will be... I see now i was 'waiting for the right time' and there never will be. I am also over the initial shock so i can carry a conversation about it not and stay solid... i hope im not supposed to keep this secret forever
the knowledge of knowing this is seriously starting to get to me. I almost would rather get it so at least the fear is gone and i can deal with what the next step will be... I see now i was 'waiting for the right time' and there never will be. I am also over the initial shock so i can carry a conversation about it not and stay solid... i hope im not supposed to keep this secret forever
No, you don't have to keep it secret, but you are not digesting everything. You still have it in your head that confronting her is a fix. You seriously believe it will end your fear?! It has just begun, plus more problems, at the point of confrontation. You have to have a plan other than just telling her you know about the A. For example, what will be your next move once you tell her you know and she says, "I want a divorce!" What will you do when she demands to know how you found out?
Here's what will happen. She will lie, deny it, and continue with the A. She will admit it, lie to you about ending it, and continue the A. You just have to be prepared to go further, and as of right now, I don't think you are.
Are you ready to stand up to her and tell her that she can pack her things or you'll pack them for her? I don't think so. She controls you. You can't even wait her out four days of dirty dishes, so what makes you think you are ready for the hard stuff? She has you doing all the chores, and you try to excuse it by saying it's really no big deal. No, you aren't ready.
Before worrying about how to approach her with confrontation, you need to be prepared to let her go. You aren't. You just want to hit the magic button to stop your pain and get back to normal again.
As for the MC while she's in an A..........forget it. You hate not to go since she finally agreed? Sounds whipped to me.
The time will come to confront, so get ready. The dynamics of the relationship must change, and it starts with you. You need to emotionally and mentally detach from her and what she does, says, or thinks. Otherwise, you are sunk before you even start.
I am on your side, but there is no way you can handle what comes next, if you can't handle this much. You cannot go blindly into a confrontation and think it will help things. You may experience a very temporary feeling of relief, especially when she lies and has a 2-3 hr. R talk, and you think things are being worked out. Then you will discover she has taken the A deeper and covering her tracks better.
the knowledge of knowing this is seriously starting to get to me. I almost would rather get it so at least the fear is gone and i can deal with what the next step will be... I see now i was 'waiting for the right time' and there never will be. I am also over the initial shock so i can carry a conversation about it not and stay solid... i hope im not supposed to keep this secret forever
No, you don't have to keep it secret, but you are not digesting everything. You still have it in your head that confronting her is a fix. You seriously believe it will end your fear?! It has just begun, plus more problems, at the point of confrontation. You have to have a plan other than just telling her you know about the A. For example, what will be your next move once you tell her you know and she says, "I want a divorce!" What will you do when she demands to know how you found out?
Here's what will happen. She will lie, deny it, and continue with the A. She will admit it, lie to you about ending it, and continue the A. You just have to be prepared to go further, and as of right now, I don't think you are.
Are you ready to stand up to her and tell her that she can pack her things or you'll pack them for her? I don't think so. She controls you. You can't even wait her out four days of dirty dishes, so what makes you think you are ready for the hard stuff? She has you doing all the chores, and you try to excuse it by saying it's really no big deal. No, you aren't ready.
Before worrying about how to approach her with confrontation, you need to be prepared to let her go. You aren't. You just want to hit the magic button to stop your pain and get back to normal again.
As for the MC while she's in an A..........forget it. You hate not to go since she finally agreed? Sounds whipped to me.
The time will come to confront, so get ready. The dynamics of the relationship must change, and it starts with you. You need to emotionally and mentally detach from her and what she does, says, or thinks. Otherwise, you are sunk before you even start.
I am on your side, but there is no way you can handle what comes next, if you can't handle this much. You cannot go blindly into a confrontation and think it will help things. You may experience a very temporary feeling of relief, especially when she lies and has a 2-3 hr. R talk, and you think things are being worked out. Then you will discover she has taken the A deeper and covering her tracks better.
Thank you for getting back to me about the MC first of all, that was something i needed quick, my question though since you dont think im ready, is how do i answer her when she says, "why not? You dont want to work on us anymore"? I can see that coming already. I know i can switch that by saying "i absolutely want to work on us, but right now your actions are not showing me that you will take it seriously like im trying too" or something?
I am listening to you, believe me! Im just trying to understand also. i know you are one my side! She has stated she does not want a divorce previously, however i know those are just words and before i expose this. i just wanted to put that out there. When i went through her phone and exposed the Emotional A, she was furious, but got over it. However, obviously that solved nothing since i am still here and it is clearly worse now... i dont think i told you i have confronted her already like that. This is hurtful, but i can put on a serious face. My job helps with that actually. However, i know that is completely different.
as for the chores, i guess i need some clarity here. I was severely lacking there, i have apologized for that and obviously improved since then. One of the rules is never take back your hard earned changes, so wouldn't be purposely avoiding doing these be considered taking that back? I guess that where im confused... Its not that i cant wait her out, i guess i worded that poorly, but its i think rationally and think, why should i if this is something im trying to show i have improved myself with. Does that make sense?
the knowledge of knowing this is seriously starting to get to me. I almost would rather get it so at least the fear is gone and i can deal with what the next step will be... I see now i was 'waiting for the right time' and there never will be. I am also over the initial shock so i can carry a conversation about it not and stay solid... i hope im not supposed to keep this secret forever
No, you don't have to keep it secret, but you are not digesting everything. You still have it in your head that confronting her is a fix. You seriously believe it will end your fear?! It has just begun, plus more problems, at the point of confrontation. You have to have a plan other than just telling her you know about the A. For example, what will be your next move once you tell her you know and she says, "I want a divorce!" What will you do when she demands to know how you found out?
Here's what will happen. She will lie, deny it, and continue with the A. She will admit it, lie to you about ending it, and continue the A. You just have to be prepared to go further, and as of right now, I don't think you are.
Are you ready to stand up to her and tell her that she can pack her things or you'll pack them for her? I don't think so. She controls you. You can't even wait her out four days of dirty dishes, so what makes you think you are ready for the hard stuff? She has you doing all the chores, and you try to excuse it by saying it's really no big deal. No, you aren't ready.
Before worrying about how to approach her with confrontation, you need to be prepared to let her go. You aren't. You just want to hit the magic button to stop your pain and get back to normal again.
As for the MC while she's in an A..........forget it. You hate not to go since she finally agreed? Sounds whipped to me.
The time will come to confront, so get ready. The dynamics of the relationship must change, and it starts with you. You need to emotionally and mentally detach from her and what she does, says, or thinks. Otherwise, you are sunk before you even start.
I am on your side, but there is no way you can handle what comes next, if you can't handle this much. You cannot go blindly into a confrontation and think it will help things. You may experience a very temporary feeling of relief, especially when she lies and has a 2-3 hr. R talk, and you think things are being worked out. Then you will discover she has taken the A deeper and covering her tracks better.
as for the chores, i guess i need some clarity here. I was severely lacking there, i have apologized for that and obviously improved since then. One of the rules is never take back your hard earned changes, so wouldn't be purposely avoiding doing these be considered taking that back? I guess that where im confused... Its not that i cant wait her out, i guess i worded that poorly, but its i think rationally and think, why should i if this is something im trying to show i have improved myself with. Does that make sense?
It's about consistency in your actions. You can't say "I'm changed, I do dishes now." Then wait 4 days to see if she will do them. Then do them out of guilt? Disgust? Whatever. Doesn't matter.
I'm not saying you should do all the chores. But I am saying that you need to be consistent in what you do. Otherwise, how can she believe any of the other changes?
You have told her repeatedly you want to save the M. Do not make this your default answer to everything she asks or says to you. I only tell you this b/c I know how it turns off a WW! You need to say something else. Something that tells her you are thinking things over. She needs to wonder if you may have second thoughts. I know that seems contrary to your mindset, but the one thing she doesn't need to be reminded, is how she can betray you and yet there are no consequences and she can be assured you won't go anywhere. A WW does not need to be
assured that she's still running the show......she needs to wonder about you and how you feel.
my question though since you dont think im ready, is how do i answer her when she says, "why not? You dont want to work on us anymore"?
Yes, she probably will twist it around to make it sounds as if you don't want to work on it. That's okay, let her do it. If she asks you why not, tell her something like, "I haven't seen any indication we are ready", or "I'm not sure how I feel about it, right now". Be vague and don't give her the same old song & dance about wanting to fix things. The thing that will throw her and distract a WW's attention on her A is to think her H is no longer interested in
her! You have to be vague, without lying, in most answers you give her, at this time. You can't trust her, and she
will deceive you.
as for the chores, i guess i need some clarity here. I was severely lacking there, i have apologized for that and obviously improved since then. One of the rules is never take back your hard earned changes, so wouldn't be purposely avoiding doing these be considered taking that back? I guess that where im confused... Its not that i cant wait her out, i guess i worded that poorly, but its i think rationally and think, why should i if this is something im trying to show i have improved myself with. Does that make sense?
Here's my point. If I understood you correctly, you are doing it all, is that right? You see, there are tons of guys coming here and telling their story about their fear of losing the W. The first thing they do? Start doing all the housework! That does not save a marriage! In fact, if you do not have a disabled W, that's a terrible move to make! If she holds down a full time job, then sure, share the chores, but don't do them all and think you are really making changes in yourself. I have never known of a woman, yet, who left a man b/c he didn't do enough housework.
Go back and read what I said about not being able to wait her out four days of dirty dishes. The point had nothing to do with washing dishes, it was about who is really in charge there in the home and the M. It's not you. She knows how to work you.
Please be careful about over apologizing about things. You expose her and then apologize? So, why are you considering it again? Never mind, I know why. But that's why I said what I did about the four days. It takes strength, courage, and victory over for the smaller things, before you start thinking of bigger actions. The last thing you want is to expose her and then apologize.
Being new, you may have a tendency, like some do, to pick up on part of what's being said, but miss the point. It's normal b/c of the emotional turmoil you are experiencing. You may have to read a post two or three times, or do exactly as you did with this....and just ask for clarification. I sure am not the best in the world explaining everything I'm trying to say.
UPDATE!! Help - Next Step??
OK, so long story short, the cats out of the bag. I have been away clearing my head and trying to think what to do. W was confronted about the physical A and cheating 4 days ago. Sorry for the lack of updates since then. I did not want to do this yet per the advice here, but it was eating me alive, and she actually dropped a bomb that initiated it and i felt forced (not what i wanted) but i took what you said here and tried to apply it on a whim. One of my close friends told there Win guessing which made it back to W earlier that day, so after a non-eventful night together, she went to go upstairs like normal, pauses and goes "oh by the way, id appreciate it if you didn't talk to anyone about us and say that im cheating on you" and walked upstairs. In my head i went "WTFFFFFF", but i knew there was no way i was letting her drop a bomb like that and just walk upstairs with no explanation or anything, so i gather my thought for a couple mins and followed her upstairs where i had the confrontation...
First, let me say i never got her to admit she slept with OM, but with the evidence, the conversations/emails/her actions, as much as she tried to explain them away, it did not make senses in any other setting so i guess she will never fully admit to sleeping with OM since i gave her ample opportunity to come clean. Plus after the initial conflict because i was not going to back off, she changed her story (added) which means shes clearly withholding the whole story and ill just have to live with that, her body position and actions said it all...
It was about a 30min conversation, when i realized she was so pissed/scared or something i was no longer in a discussion (she shut down), i let her shower, and then continued the conversation for another 30mins after, and 10 mins the next morning to ensure she knew i was serious and this was it.
The conversation: I listened Sandi and i stayed calm and collected, i did not yell and i held myself together. If anything i think i showed a obviously some anger of her doing this to me, but concern/betrayal. When W described making out with OM and him reaching up and feeling her, i started to break down but i took a breath and stayed strong per your advice. Her is the gist of key points:
Starting of Convo; I stayed very calm and spoke slow the whole time which i tried very hard to not break from...
Me: Did you cheat on me
W: No (direct eye contact displaying fear or shock)
Me: Did you cheat on me since we have been married?
W: No, i didnt cheat on you
Me: babe, i have seen conversations, and pictures and the recent trips you have left make know sense.
W: i didnt cheat on you
W: so you were snooping and went through my phone again? (mad)
Me: that doesn't matter and NO. i wasn't 'snooping' as you say, i am fighting for my marriage. You wont tell me and i want to know what is wrong. Your storied and actions make no sense. There is obviously a huge issue, and based on Your actions and guarding of you phone or convo's, plus lack of kissing/touching me, i know there is an OM. Dont insult my intelligence.
Me: So, has OM sent inappropriate pictures?
W: No
Me: So again, has OM sent you multiple pictures of himself in a towel and sexual poses barely covering himself with a white towel from OMs bathroom(i repeated)
W: long pause (realizing i knew i think since i described it). Then softly looking down "yes" (showing she lied/was caught)
Me: has he sent you nude of himself
W: yes...
me: Have you sent nudes of yourself
W: yes (had to take a breath here to come down and not start crying to myself and continue, this hurt, but i knew already...)
Me: Do you think that appropriate for you to do? For him to do? Why did you do that or let him, how do you think that makes me feel?
W: i dont know, he is my friend and single and in a tough place.
me: i dont care about him, you are married, and that is not ok and unacceptable to for you to do. You are not single and i cant believe you would do this
W: Black stare
Me: so know that you told me that, did you cheat on me with OM?
W: no i didn't
Me: what about the night last month you went to his apartment and then you texted it was the best night of you life, the most exciting thing you have ever done. OM said only two people good in bed who share a connection can connect like that, followed by you agreeing and laughing. The pictures of him with a hickey on his neck and scrapes on his back?
W: blank stare again, then... we kissed.
Me: really? thats it? im asking you to get it out now so i can see if i want to work past this
W: we kissed, and he reach under my shirt and felt around
M: So again, did you have sex with OM?
W: No
Me: what about the convo the next day between you and the PF and when your stomach hurt (true due to period), and she made a comment its probably from being pounded last night and your period. The you said "perhaps" and both laughed about it
W: she was just joking
Me: do you think im stupid? nobody jokes randomly like that unless there is prior context mentioned which i know she knew about because she wouldn't answer me when i asked.
W: blank stare followed by, im done, im showering, leave now.
then the second part which was shorter:
after talking about how hurt i was and what this was doing to me, and how i wont be disrespected and i am not willing to be in an open marriage.
Me: do you want to work on this marriage
W: i dont know
Me: what do i need to do to help you recommit? i will not be a plan B, i have already stated i want to work on this M and i know we can still work on things, but i need you to let me know if your still willing because i cant do this on my own anymore. Stop running away and talk to me...
W: I dont know
Me: again, im asking do you want to be married to me, and are you willing to try and work on things?
W: im still here
Me: i dont know what that means? you have said that before, please tell me what that means...
W: im still here, if i didn't want to be, i would have left
Me: if you want to work on things, i need you to end it with OM.
W: im not sure if i can
Me: that was a choice you made and if he is your 'friend' of 15 years as you say, he will understand, if not, then he is not your friend. As your husband, i am telling you to end it now.
W: Ok (kinda of mad)
Me: He knew you were married and took advantage, you should have stopped it and didn't, now its up to you to end it. so Im telling you, its over now, because i know and have even seen you talking to PF that he is the biggest reason we are still having issues and you dont want to work on things. So, end it, because we are married and we need to focus on us to repair things. If you cant do that, then tell me right now because im done being in limbo, watching my wife talk to another man the way you do, and getting crushed every time you leave. I will not continue to feel like that and nobody deserves that...
W: Ok, i will (most likely lying but whatever)
So anyways... thats the gist of the conversation. The next day she basically said nothing to me and was gone until later at night avoiding the house (worked late and then went 'shopping'). She then came and removed her computer and hard drives from the house so she must have figured out thats where i got all the pictures/convos from. So im in the dark if she ended it or not which im sure she most likely has not, and now just become much better at hiding it. She does not go on her phone like she did while at the house no, especially near me... so maybe this is a good thing and she did wake up? but im leery and not buying it yet. She also changed he passwords so i cant go in her email. This is basically the opposite of being transparent which i also discussed she was going to have to be if she wanted me to stay and be able to trust her again...
last night was ok, we did dinner and a movie and actually laughed a little togather, but it was basicall ymore of the same. Its all just a routine to her. Nothing intimate. SO my question, is should i trust her? im guessing no. Should i follow up the conversation somehow in a week? What is the next step? should i continue to DB and GAL? Helps, im not sure what to do right now...?
So did accept plans to go tour boat 2 weeks from now with her mother and me, and a wedding for the two of us in 2 months so im guessing that means she isn't leaving yet? But obviously that is far from saying she is turning around...? i get that, im not fooling myself here, i dont think anything have changed yet as much as i want to believe she has ended it...
Your conversation could be a script from my conversation with my W a month and a half ago. What is going to follow for the next few weeks/months is up to you now. But there is no denying one thing. This is going to hurt. Bad. You are going to have good days, but mostly bad, painful, miserable days where you need to hide away and cry.
Judging from what you say above, you've told your W that she needs to stop seeing OM. You've told her you will leave if she doesnt. But then you asked her if she wants to work on the marriage and you continue to make plans with her and her mom. That's telling her you're not going to leave. She has no incentive right now to end her A. Most likely she hasnt.
Now you need to actually follow through on your words. You need to GAL. Without her. She's fired you. Go to the gym, call some friends. Be too busy for her right now. Let her know through your ACTIONS that life will continue with her or without her. Stop talking to her other than to answer simple questions. Do not talk about the A or your M or ask her if she's ended her A. Don't ask her if she wants to work on your marriage. She doesn't right now. Why would she? You're still hanging around asking her if she wants to save it even though she's with some other guy.
I'm right there with you in the same scenario right now. But things are a little better because I moved from the stage you're in to talking to an attorney, making preparations to leave, and figuring out visitation/custody schedules. This all scared the crap out of me, and I didn't want to do any of it. But it scared my W more. And as far as I know, she's leaning toward working on our M. I haven't asked her, so I don't know.
What I do know is I had to stop having conversations like the one you had above and start working on ME, and showing her that it's better where I am than where she is.
Good luck with it. Stay strong. Do it for YOU.
I agree with everything above.
The key is that you don't need her to work on your M right now.
You need YOU to work on YOU right now.
I agree with everything above.
The key is that you don't need her to work on your M right now.
You need YOU to work on YOU right now.
Also important to note: i feel a MASSIVE relief getting this off my chest. i have noticed i have been able to go about GAL better and ive been more upbeat (even just this week since the confrontation). I think this confrontation although not optimal if nothing else, did do one thing which is allow me to see that im not afraid of her. She does not own me and i can stand up for myself again like i use to. I see now i am doing everything to save the M and its up to her now to try and if not, then im a great guy and its her lose. I see know while i can yell, point, shame, nothing will change her actually emotions or willingness to be intimate except her. It weird such a horrible conversation has actually made me feel better in a way...
You guys are right. I just wanted to see if Sandi or more had in site so i wrote as much as i could from the conov. I mean we all know she has lied but like Sandi said earlier, some people will just never admit it. I know she cheated, the evidence and convo's are far too detailed regardless of what she said. i still think this had to happen and is a good thing though that it did, for me i mean. I didn't accept going to the events, she told me she planned them, so there is a difference in my mind. The wedding was planned long ago and the same with the tour. What i do take away from them is time, they tell me i have time, which is important as cadet says. So i guess i should keep Dbing? Dont pursue still right? So basically dont change what i have been trying to do...?
Angels - just to be clear "not pursuing" is not the same as "DBing".
It's a part of it, but there's a lot more to it.
So now might be a good time to reflect on your goals, 180s, etc.
Hey man,
I was in your shoes last year..hurt like hell...bad. Then, maybe Starsky? asked me, "Is this a woman worth fighting for?" He was right. She wasn't. Today, I'm almost 8 months past that day and I feel great (aside from her BS with the kids, schedule, etc) You are going to go through hell, keep going. There is fresh air on the other side...it's sunnier and smells better...trust me. Every day right now will feel like a month, suck it up, you can do it. Think like a Navy Seal, like a warrior, like Bruce Lee, whoever...you can do it. She is not worth your energy or focus. I hope this doesn't come across as cold or callous, it's not meant to. Post on here often, it helps. Go for a bike ride. Go see buddies. DO NOT sit in your house and wonder what you did wrong....because you probably didn't do anything wrong enough to deserver this. Head up.
-mvg
The second conversation should have been left off, except for saying you won't live in an open M. You were pressing to the point of pleading her to tell you she would work on the M. She was not hearing any of what you were trying to get her to say. And you sure won't get a WW to agree to a transparency plan before she is remorseful and ready to go to work saving her M!
You gave away your source of intell, and she will make sure they are more careful now. Which means, they will carry the A deeper underground. She has no intentions of ending it. She's pi$$ed and more determined to rebel.
As I said earlier, your relief will be temporary b/c other pressures will likely take its place. I hope from this point forward you will not inform her of how much you know. It never accomplishes what the LBS thinks it will.
You need to make yourself unavailable to her. Spend as much time GAL as possible. If you do not detach now, you will see no changes in her or the MR. You have to change the dynamics, and all you have done is show your cards.
Do not discuss these matters with other people, b/c it always gets back around to the W.
Also, if/when she does leave OM, she will resent you for it. She will blame you for making her end it. I went through that too. Be ready. Be strong. Be prepared. Right now is a gift of time to better YOURSELF.
Also, if/when she does leave OM, she will resent you for it. She will blame you for making her end it. I went through that too. Be ready. Be strong. Be prepared. Right now is a gift of time to better YOURSELF.
Im ready for this... i knew full well as Sandi mentioned this also, she will probably come at me with a full range of emotions now since being exposed.
The second conversation should have been left off, except for saying you won't live in an open M. You were pressing to the point of pleading her to tell you she would work on the M. She was not hearing any of what you were trying to get her to say. And you sure won't get a WW to agree to a transparency plan before she is remorseful and ready to go to work saving her M!
You gave away your source of intell, and she will make sure they are more careful now. Which means, they will carry the A deeper underground. She has no intentions of ending it. She's pi$$ed and more determined to rebel.
As I said earlier, your relief will be temporary b/c other pressures will likely take its place. I hope from this point forward you will not inform her of how much you know. It never accomplishes what the LBS thinks it will.
You need to make yourself unavailable to her. Spend as much time GAL as possible. If you do not detach now, you will see no changes in her or the MR. You have to change the dynamics, and all you have done is show your cards.
Do not discuss these matters with other people, b/c it always gets back around to the W.
I agree, but whats done is done, thats why i made sure i let you know exactly what i did here so we could recover if need be, or what not to do again! Im sure this isn't the last time i will have to make a stand at this point. I do feel better though just getting that out. Like i said, i was going to wait since you said too, but after having her make that comment, i felt that was the opening of the door i was waiting for. She is not smart enough to hide this from me for long, and she knows how smart i am with this stuff (some of my job in the Gov't). She can hide it all she wants, i will be able to get access again if needed.
I didnt give away my source of intel, she is guessing and tried to remove everything and change everything. She didn't ask and i didnt say where i got the info from. I said her phone which was actually not it (her comp). Shes guessing and tried to change it all. The biggest thing is i know where she writes all her passwords down, so even after she changes them, i just need to get to the little book she keeps which ill be able to do within the week if needed. She doesnt have a good memory and has to write stuff down, that where i have an advantage because if she didnt end it, she will make mistakes and i will know. I also did not show all my 'cards', i showed her 90%, but not the full deck. I already saw she tried to delete the pics from her HD, she doesn't know i have everything backed up already. She has since put the stuff back in the house again. I already have her FB again which is a good source if needed.
So you said if i was confused to ask, matt posted there is a difference between not pursuing and dbing. can you clarify this? since DB the first thing in your list is 'not to pursue'. i get its more, but am i not understanding something?
Also you are right, she was PISSED, and i could see it in her face, but im still trying to stay positive and now im letting her know i am a man and i will not be disrespected like she was doing anymore. My take away like you said is TIME. What she showed me, and in the last week trying to make plans is i have time! Now is where i need you to make sure i use it wisely and do all i can.
Also, she is now already acting nice again, but we all know that is most likely fake and trying to throw me off (last couple days especially). I know this and i will not be swayed again like before. She has started initiating a couple things, like kissing me before she leaves, but again, im sure this is probably to get me to back off, which isnt going to happen at this point...
Sorry if I was cryptic.
DBing is about the healing process for you, the self-reflection and self-improvement needed to make you a whole, happy, and desirable person. This could lead to saving your marriage.
Not pursuing is one of the tools we use to go through that process. By itself, not pursuing won't really get you anywhere. It's to allow you the space to healthily detach, GAL, make your 180s and to give your S the space to proceed with their life. But if you JUST stop pursuing, it's no good without all the other stuff.
Also, she is now already acting nice again, but we all know that is most likely fake and trying to throw me off (last couple days especially). I know this and i will not be swayed again like before. She has started initiating a couple things, like kissing me before she leaves, but again, im sure this is probably to get me to back off, which isnt going to happen at this point...
How did you respond to her acting nice and kissing you?
Now is where i need you to make sure i use it wisely and do all i can.
IDK, I didn't do so well at getting you to hold off on confronting her.
. All in all, everyone makes their own choices, and all the board can do is offer suggestions.
It is important that you continue to show her you are a man who will not tolerate disrespect, and she will test you to see how far she can push those buttons. I can't remember if it was you, or who, that said something about not having plans for this stuff but doing it as it came. However, I think you were able to bypass a few hits b/c you were warned about it, and therefore, prepared when you saw it happening so quickly. So I think it is smart to think ahead of how you will react to some things she may do.
Now that you have told her (in the confrontation), it is my opinion that you not repeat those same statements. ar the least, don't make them your default answers when you can't think of anything else. I have seen some guys do this and, to me, it seems to lose some of its effectiveness on the WW. It's best just not to have a R talk until she has ended the A and wants to save the M. The most effective way of getting her attention now, will be through your actions.
For example, you told her you would not live in an open M. She is going to see if you really meant it. Are you prepared to stick to what you said? A lot of LBS's throw that statement around, but they are depending on their "words" to do the trick. It doesn't. You have to back up what you say. That is another reason I was trying to get you to wait about confronting her. Men say a lot but when time comes for action, many are too afraid of losing their WW to back it up. Not saying
you are, just saying many are.
You may find yourself hesitating to get out and GAL, and want to give excuses for not detaching. An example would be, "Shouldn't I be spending more time with her, if she's ended the A"? "If I detach, won't she think I do not want to save the M"? "What if she thinks I have lost interest? Won't it just push her further away"? These questions have been asked hundreds of times. The LBS seems to want to assure the WS they still want to work on the M. However, that is the uncertainy or insecurity (no offense) in the LBS, b/c the WW is not the one who is asking for his reassurances. It is my personal opinion that if the LBS would not be so eager to repeat his willingness to save the M, his WW would be more interested in his intentions. MWD says they should "wonder" about the LBS. FWIW, I agree!
So, get busy with setting and working on personal goals. Don't make goals about what your W will do or say, b/c you don't control her. Make goals about yourself. Get back into having fun with hobbies, sports, old friends, new friends, etc. GAL is really key here, and every person who has done it says it works in helping them. It is a great self esteem builder. Also, exercise regularly. How are you sleeping and eating?
These are not just run of the mill suggestions.......they are important. You have to take this period of time, now, to focus on you and taking care of your mental, physical, and spiritual health. Otherwise, you will crash and burn. In all likelihood, this is going to be a long journey, so you have to be in shape for the long haul.
Thanks for the responses guys/girls. Matt, i get what you are saying now and the difference, thanks for clearning that...
Sandi, i just kissed her back. Nothing more, nothing less. I think she is testing me at the moment, this weekend had a couple things where she was asking if she could do A or B. Im not sure she has ended the A and like you said, i think i was dreaming to hope it was that easy... i think now she is just trying to bury it further underground...
This weekend wasn't terrible, but she was away most of the time, leading me to think she isn't really ready to fix anything. While she did have prior engaugements to do, i think she was spending too much time so she was prolly on the phone talking before/after said events and hiding it. She worked all day Sat which she hates, so i think she just wanted to get away (stayed all day and got herself dinner, which was very weird to not just come home after, so im assuming she called OM because she freaked when i calmly asked her about it, not accusing, i just asked, "any reason you didnt want to eat dinner here? Ive never seen you go to that place, i thought we had plans for em to grill so i waited?"
Sunday, she went to funtown park with the PF, and as usual picked the PF over me and again canceled dinner plans with me to spend more time with the PF. At first she asked if i minded, and i said, i thought you would come home since you have been gone all weekend bascially and we again had dinner plans already. She goes, well i spend all week with you and PF wants to have din with me, so do you mind and shes my friend. I canved thinking of how to DB this, and just said "OK, do what you want, ill make my self dinner." I then decided to leave and go get myself dinner, walk my dog and get an ice cream to cheer msyelf up and relaxing. I made sure i wasn't home when she did get back, leading her to ask 50 questions like "where are you", why are you not home, you knew i was coming back"... i just replied, i wanted to get dinner and you werent here so i went. I passed DQ and decided to get an ice cream, is that Ok?" She just said OK.
Once i got home, she acted ok, told me the hallway i had finished looked good (the project i have been keeping myself busy with). I didn't say much to here, she mostly talk about how fun funtown was (conviently said nothing about the dinner). Then we got ready for bed, same as always... we did get intimate, but it was the same as before leading me to think the A is still going on unless greif from the loss takes a while which i have read on here as a possibility? What i mean, she just layed there not into it, and it was again akward for me since there was no real feeling. i actually wondered why i did that to myself again and didnt hold off on intamacy. No kissing during more then a quick normal kiss, and would kind of turn her head away enough for me to noticed and do something else to atleats entertain myself, lol... it was that or stop.
I will reply more later but wanted to let you know about what happeend this weekend incase you can read into to more then i can. i was hoping for a change, but being put second again made me remember its still bad, and i need to continue to apply the DB and not be fooled by the kindness i mentioned earlier in the week which i thought was a good thing.
Also, i know she had to end the A. I am giving her this week and then i will have to try and gain access again i think. Im not sure how to validate anything? Do i wait for her actions? Isn't that snooping again which i know im 'not' supposed to do...? However, i dont know how anything can be validated without it. We already know she will lie, even with the evidence right infront of her face...
Im waiting for the 'test' as you say. Im not sure what you mean by this, do you have examples? Do you mean like what i said before when she changed the plans on me? should i have stayed firm and said i want you to come home? using Db i realzied, i should just let her do what she wants and act like i dont care, correct? hints me then doing my own thing to be happy... She does not text him or other infront of me like she did before the confrontation, but im sure thats just because she is trying to hide it now, i have looked when she is on her phone at who, but she just seems to be on FB (addicted).
I agree though, i am still working on GAL and finishing the hallway was a big deal for me since i didn't used to do stuff like that. I have also been working out, but stopped recently, i am in shape however already. Sleeping has been complete crap since all this went down (last month), i was down to single hours during a whole week. Since confronting, i have been sleeping better since like i said, i think it helped me show myself i can stand up and i wont take this BS. I have also been eating ok for the msot part. She still cooks for me, or i do for us since we generally eat together. I would say we are more like roomies right now then a married couple if that helps you paint the picture. It is obviously she isnt ready for romance based on her actions, like the kissing, so obviously i know i need to keep DBing and not be simply dragged along and keeping hoping she will make a turn for the better one of these days...
Im waiting for the 'test' as you say. Im not sure what you mean by this, do you have examples?
Well, I dunno, maybe like kissing you to see if you'll kiss her back. Blowing off dinner plans with you to see how you'll react. Seeing if you'll respond to her questions and fess up to where you went, instead of staying mysterious because you don't owe her any answers right now considering her behavior. Seeing if you'll try to initiate sex with her, even though she's having an affair.
Those sorts of things. Just theoretically.
Starsky
Angels, let me ask you a simple (but critical) question I ask a lot of folks in your similar situation:
Do you think your wife has any credible fear of losing you right now?
Im waiting for the 'test' as you say. Im not sure what you mean by this, do you have examples?
Well, I dunno, maybe like kissing you to see if you'll kiss her back. Blowing off dinner plans with you to see how you'll react. Seeing if you'll respond to her questions and fess up to where you went, instead of staying mysterious because you don't owe her any answers right now considering her behavior. Seeing if you'll try to initiate sex with her, even though she's having an affair.
Those sorts of things. Just theoretically.
Starsky
Ok... So I guess they are all tests. I failed, so my question then on something like dinner, should I say, "you made plans, come home!" And stand my ground? Or should I just act like I don't care thus enabling her? I guess I wasn't sure what to do here in this case...
Angels, let me ask you a simple (but critical) question I ask a lot of folks in your similar situation:
Do you think your wife has any credible fear of losing you right now?
No... I guess your right. I think if I said yes to this I would be lying to myself...
Tonight was horrible guys, every time I think I'm doing good and making strides for myself, something happens that just knocks me down. I know what sandi has said in here and I believe her, it's just seeing my wife me so cruel astonishes me. Today, whether it be withdrawal because she actually stopped the A (no proof of and doubt it), the bad day at work, or me mentioning it would be nice if she would get off her phone during dinner. She was in rage mode today. Nothing but attitude. I tried to take it but it was so uncalled for since I did nothing! She just came home and was instantly on attack mode, but I refused to fight. I just took a breath and went upstairs and did all my laundry and cleaned a messy spare room. I did get upset though which I was mad at myself for! Even whispering to myself, why am I getting upset, think of what she's doing to you! But it didn't matter... I have avoided her since dinner where I sat down, watched tv but said nothing. Nobody deserves to be someone else punchy bag (figuritvly). I don't know, I'm sure this is the wrath sand I warns me about but man I was not ready for so much hate out of what seem like nowhere... Today [censored]...
. . .or me mentioning it would be nice if she would get off her phone during dinner. She was in rage mode today. Nothing but attitude. I tried to take it but it was so uncalled for since I did nothing! She just came home and was instantly on attack mode, but I refused to fight. I just took a breath and went upstairs and did all my laundry and cleaned a messy spare room.
Angels, this is where I might suggest you start. Drawing a simple boundary that "I will not tolerate rude and disrespectful behavior," or what I call "crap behavior."
Instead of just refusing to fight, or walking away from the problem, what if you said "I've decided that I will no longer allow you to talk to me so rudely or disrespectfully. When you're ready to calm down and speak to me respectfully like an adult, we can continue this conversation." THEN remove yourself from the room.
There is nothing in DBing that says you have be a doormat, and every time you tolerate your wayward wife's crap behavior, you are further enabling it.
Starsky
Ok... So I guess they are all tests. I failed, so my question then on something like dinner, should I say, "you made plans, come home!" And stand my ground? Or should I just act like I don't care thus enabling her? I guess I wasn't sure what to do here in this case...
No, you don't say "come home" -- that's pursuing! You leave the table neatly set for 2, put the food away, and then go out for about 4 hours and don't tell her where you went.
Don't answer her texts or phone calls while you're out. When you come home (not too late -- like 11ish) and she asks, say "Out to grab a bite and then meet some friends. I would appreciate it if you're not going to be here for dinner next time, that you let me know so I can plan accordingly and not waste the food. Thanks." Not pleading, not scolding -- just civil but businesslike.
Tonight was horrible guys, every time I think I'm doing good and making strides for myself, something happens that just knocks me down. I know what sandi has said in here and I believe her, it's just seeing my wife me so cruel astonishes me.
Angels, are you familiar with The Stockdale Paradox? You can either Google it, or find a link to it in Cadet's "Work" thread. I have found that either the Stockdale Paradox or the famous "You're already dead" scene from
Band of Brothers are the best mindsets for successful DBing. They balance action and hopefulness with a simultaneous confrontation of your current brutal reality.
Starsky
Thanks for the responses Starsky
Angels
You are allowed to be upset!
It's okay you know to acknowledge that and to do so here. Let yourself have an "upset time" a good wallow then get fed up with it. Go "whatever" and thump a pillow.
It's confidential to Angels and his chums.
V
How are you doing today, Angels?
How are you doing today, Angels?
Hello Sandi and everyone! I hope you are all doing well on here. Sorry i have not been on updating, i will try to be more frequent with updates when they are big. ALOT has happened (good and bad), so this may be long but i figured it all needed! Also, i need the guys help here also as something new has started and i am not sure what’s up, literally...
So let me just say this, Sandi I reread everything and you have pretty much been spot on with the stuff you have said so please be honest as you understand my position and better, hers. There was been good and bad over the last couple weeks, but dare I say, mostly good in the babay step type of way!? Anyways, I have been applying the DB principles to what I feel fit and seems to be working, Ill admit I have backed off though and need advice on whether I should have or not. Go back two week and it was TERRIBLE, just as things took a turn, as Sandi warned me, we took ten steps back, but now it may be for the better. SO, we have started marriage counseling (Christian consoler), I was going to wait like several of you said but she showed interest so I decided to give it a try and to my surprise she has been engaging, talking, and listening to what’s being shared and even more importantly, she been really talking! After the first session we took the 5 love languages tests together and found out we were clueless. Mine was physical touch and words of affirmation/gift giving. Her’s were acts of service and gift giving, and as you could guess, he low was physical touch and my low was acts of service, who knew? Anyways, we have been trying to better understand this and apply some of the concepts.
SO the first session actually got us talking about real stuff/connecting, albeit it small, but she heavily engaged to my surprise (included the book she wrote on the intake form for it). While things looked good and I thought we took some babysteps, what Sandi warned me of happened, an she went home (actually home) and her mom finally confronted her on everything and apparently did not beat around the bush. Where did I mess up you ask? Sandi warned me of this and after her mom flat out confronter her about everything and how she could be so stupid, etc… (don’t know what was actually shared), my W was FURIOUS! When she came home after that, I got nothing for 2 days, not one word (after having a great week), I asked what happened and she admitting over text to her mom cornering her and how pissed she was and disappointed in me because after the confrontation we decided to not talk to anyone about our issues. Unfortunately I had spoken to her mom before this happened and she held onto it for a month (when I thought I had no options)… needless to say, this canceled all progress and forced me to retreat and once again, apologies for hurting her feelings, potentially damaging their relationship and messing up. Prior to this, I think the DBing and me being quite kind of started to pull her in as she sensed I was serious about leaving, and of course, this put it all back in her court. Anyways, to put it to bed and pick my battles, I went full out in the apology and she did accept it and say ‘thank you ‘. So after that, I managed to slightly recover ( I honestly thought that was it) and keep her around and move past what had happened. This however meant the biggest supports knew what she had done now by cheating on me (exposure). The good from this you ask? She cut off communication from the OM and decided to work on the marriage and give it another go! She has official said this now in counseling when the consoler flat out ask, what about the OM, are you still talking to him because for you to repair your marriage, that must completely end. She agreed and said she has stopped (basically right after the confrontation).
So this past week, we are still going to consoling and communicating better than we had in months. I do believe she has stopped talking to OM, she has actually left her phone around more recently when she’s left the room, and computer open. I finished my hall wall project (whats ive been doing to stay busy and not chase her) and she actually made a point to say good job, it looks nice, I like… and then took pictures and posting them on FB tanking me. I believe this is her trying to get the words of affirmation I said I really appreciate when I hear. She been doing this the last couple times I cleaned a room and cooked dinner for us also. While this is small, I believe this is a step of her slightly reengaging, am I right?
Also a HUGE step, we know she has been horrible to me in terms of criticizing prior to the last couple weeks and yelling or getting made at nothing, well thanks to you guys, im not taking it anymore. The other day (her bad lady week), she came home from work where she told me she had a bad day and didn’t sleep well, so I bought her a little ice cream thing after work just because (gift giving), well she exploded totally unexpectedly. She said I had a bad day, again, your overcompensating and I hate it, you don’t need to get me anything, just me be. Well as you can tell, this killed me, but I manned up right then and there and said, “W, you told me you had a bad day and had to work late and yoru insides hurt, I got out early and drove past the ice cream store and got you something to make you feel better, I did nothing to cause you to react like this and it completely uncalled for. All I did was get you a small something to make you feel better on my way home! I am sick of being yelled at when I did nothing wrong to bring it on!”. I then walked out of the house to collect myself (held strong saying that) and worked on painting some doors, well unlike the last 6 months and for the first time, she actually came out of the house and APOLOGIZED! I was dumbfounded, she said she was sorry, she had a bad day and took it out on me, and she actually really liked the ice cream. I didn’t overdo it and just replied, thanks, and continued painting. We acted ok the rest of the night. Again, I think this is a small step in the right direction because a month ago, she would never have come out and apologized to me.
Along with that, we have been non-eventful. She still appears to be not talking to OM and trying to start to work on us, starting come convos and sharing jokes on her phone, asking for help with dinner so we are together in the same room (consoling recommended), and talking about small stuff as well as some future stuff surprisingly, like the house projects, but overall she still feels very distant as I would expect. However, I believe we have started making progress, which is why I wrote all this to fill you all in because I don’t want to mess this up. She is still shying away from intimacy though, so maybe sandi can help me there as too what she may be feeling. She still doesn’t say ‘love you’ unless I do (which I have backed way off), and I think she is grieving the loss of OM, hints the lack on intimacy. Some songs about cheating of, lost loves…etc, she had been playing she is VERY quick to turn off or change I noticed. She did the same thing when ‘the notebook’ or something came on which she used to love.
Anyways, sorry for the book, I hope you take the time to read it, but I wanted to get it out and ensure I convered everything so you all could be caught up and help with more advice. While I may sound like im encouraged, I understand this is a very long road of more ups and downs.
Now for another shorter post which is very embarrassing for me to write about but I guess I need to know if alone, or something else is going on. Maybe some of you, especially guys have gone through this. I know the affair messed me up, but I think it did more than I knew and its hitting me more and more, and its showing physically. I mentioned before she wasn’t intimate still (not to be expected yet perhaps as she mourns her OM loss?) and while she is more than willing to have sex now , she isn’t emotionally connecting like she used too or I need I guess. Needless to say, as we talked about the affair and OM in the consoling, I thought more about it than before. Like sandi mentioned, I was overcome with an urge to have sex since the affair (primal possibly?). Well, after being rejected, thinking about it so much and wanting it to be perfect, I worst of the worst happened, meaning…nothing. For the first time in years, I could get it up. I don’t know if I just didn’t feel the connection or what, but after a spark, it was gone and did not come back. After being humiliated and feeling like a total failure since this is all ive wanting for a week, I was forced to say I couldn’t continue and left to shower (after pleasing her). Well, what I thought couldn’t get worse then happened again the next day. She actually engaged and tried to help (which meant a ton), but still… nothing happening down there. WTF? This is terrible? I think I build it up so much and wanting to do so well her, I have mentally shocked myself or something and now I have performance anxiety. SO has this happened? Is this a stage? I am healthy, so it must be mental and the harder I try to make it happen, the worse it seems to get…
There are some men conditioned to apologize to the W.........in order to continue on. And there are some women who throw fits, give the silent treatment, withhold sex, etc., as a means "to condition" the H. Half the time he has no clue as to what he apologizes for, but he thinks that is his script to follow. With that said, why did you apologize for talking to your MIL, especially since it was done before you and W agreed not to tell anyone? In the future, don't do it, just as way of making peace. Apologize if you have done something wrong,but otherwise, I say the WW will continue blaming everything on you.....whether it's your faul or not. Your MIL is the one who called her out about the A, but your W took it out on you.
You called her out about getting mad over the ice cream thing. Excellent job! Now that you see you did not fall down dead, and in fact had a positive and immediate response from her.......continue going forward.
I tend to be suspicious of any WW who "appears" to clean up her act immediately following the H's confrontation about her A. Usually, she will take the A to a more secretive level.....being sure to not to be caught this time around. I am not saying your WW is not genuine, I am just saying what I have seen in the majority of these same type stories.
Has the MC given you and WW a plan for transparency? Have you actually seen any message she sent OM saying it is over? Has the MC discussed repentance with your WW, or has been more of a "forgive & forget" and now move forward? I am just trying to get a better idea of what's being presented to her.
I hope she is authentic in the effort you see in her. I really do. I realize you want to see progress, and I certainly don't blame for feeling that way. Just try to be emotionally prepared if she backslides. If she truly told OM the A was over, then she the addiction will be pulling at her and the temptation will be tough.
As for the sex issue, you are pushing. I know you can't think like a woman and you see having sex as sealing the deal. It is your way of making progress within the MR. The fact she is even willing is much more than most WW's I have read about. Unless she is high drive, she probably cannot feel connected until she is over OM. In the meantime, you are building the whole intimate thing being the fixer until the pressure is too much. Some of the guys will probably comment, but I'll bet it is not uncommon at all in this type of stitch. Let go of expectations, and give both of you time.
I also hope you will keep us updated, even if it's just to let us know you have not left us.
Thanks for the quick reply as always Sandi. I value your options and knowledge alot! Im glad you seem to agree some of her actions have indeed been positive. I think MIL confronting has had much more of an effect then me. She is a huge influence in her life which is why i had gone to her.
You are right about calling her out when she is being disrepectful and i think starsky said that also. I have since done that a couple times and got a very quick response where she realized she over reacted or was mad for nothing now. No, the world didn't end either like part of me probably thought.
MC has not discussed a plan for transparency. I think MC is more of the 'forgive and forget' type. Draw a line in the sand and rebuild from here. Last meeting though he was very one sided and questioning her infront of me, where she again said she had ended it. He then asked what pushed her that way followed by why as hard as it is you cant not contact OM, and what do you do if he was to try and contact you? She said "they were friends and he wouldn't because i asked and told him how important my marriage it to me". MC came back and said if he was a friend he would have not have done pushed you knowing you were married. So what would you do, and she said tell him to back off...etc. I dont remember exactly how it went. So other then questions like that, he seems more like the now that its over, lets work on the problems between you...
I hope she is too. I am preparing myself for a backslide though as i know it happens alot. Im much more alert to things and like i said, i know things are not normal, nor are the perfect, but you seem to agree she is showing small signs of wainting to try as long as she is actually being honest. No i didn't see the message/convo she sent. She deleted him from her phone for now and all the pics/convo and emails. I have access again... if anything, i think he will try, not her and then it will be up to her if she ends stops it right then. Time will tell...
I think your right in terms of sex. I am pushing/wanting it too much right now. i am the opposite of relaxed when it comes to that because i was building it up as this huge thing now. Too answer your question, she has never had a high drive, low if anything. i want it because that is personally a way i felt connec compared to meted, if that makes since. while i want to believe its just sex and a phyical act, it think your right and im putting WAY too much pressure on it as another way of making progress on pushing our MR forward. Ofcourse now, its most likely having the complete opposite effect due to my lack of showing up to the party.... which i know is all emotional. The harder i tried the more impossible i saw it was going to be... it was very humiliating and i felt like i was failing at my basic function i always was able to fall back on no matter our issues...
but you seem to agree she is showing small signs of wainting to try as long as she is actually being honest.
but you seem to agree she is showing small signs of wainting to try as long as she is actually being honest.
You've made a couple of references to where I believed she was making making progress. I tried to be careful how I stated what I told you. Go back and read my post again. I don't want to discourage, but neither do I want you to misunderstand what I said. If you have a question, please ask me.
Has the MC said anything to her about your feelings in all that she's done, and how important her apology is to you?
but you seem to agree she is showing small signs of wainting to try as long as she is actually being honest.
but you seem to agree she is showing small signs of wainting to try as long as she is actually being honest.
You've made a couple of references to where I believed she was making making progress. I tried to be careful how I stated what I told you. Go back and read my post again. I don't want to discourage, but neither do I want you to misunderstand what I said. If you have a question, please ask me.
Has the MC said anything to her about your feelings in all that she's done, and how important her apology is to you?
I did reread what your wrote. I understand now. I think i was trying to be too positive and you were more warning me of what could be going on...
We have been doing well this week i feel though. I have backed off phyically and instead im just trying to act normal, not force anything and see if that comes without my initiation. She did give it anohter try with me after my last post to be intimate, and finally i relaxed and everything worked as it should which was a pressure relief to me mentally. In the mean time, we have watched a couple movies togather in the house, she made dinner and banana bread for us, and even bought some small gifts and helped me with a house project (putting in pool stairs). She has been joking and laughing with me and sharing some thoughts/convo's so that another reason i am not going to push phyically for anything. Im content trying to reconnect emotionally and build being comfy around each other again rather then force phycial which I dont think she needs or wants right now, that is just me...
She is going away this thursday though with her mom for 4 days. I never like it when she goes now since the trust is gone, but i understand i need to let her go. Which binrgs me to your MC comment.
She has not showed outright remorse, and has not apologized. I dont know if she will to be honest. Her apologizing over the ice cream incident i posted about was HUGE and one of the only times i can remember her doing it seriously. I feel she should for this though, am i right? or should i be getting over that myself and moving on? I have thought about bringing it up in MC. i dont feel she gets what this is doing/has done to me. I think she believes im ok because im trying to be positive, but doesn't understand she has brokeen me, and i have very little trust now. I try not to show i care when she leaves but obviously i still do, and i think she can see it on my face. Especially when she goes to the PF which is what she used as a cover before. I said this during this past weekend though when she mentioned going, and she canceled the day trip and asked me to rent some movies which i took as a positive thing? We have a MC tonight, so i guess ill see what this brings... i dont normally brings stuff to talk about so sometimes its quite until he gets us going with a subject. Maybe i should bring up the trust thing?
From what you've said about the MC, I don't know if you would have a lot of support in telling her how important remorse and a sincere apology is to you. (And, a sincere apology is one that doesn't show an attitude.)
I went for a looooooong time before I gave a sincere apology, b/c I did not feel remorse. All I felt was anger toward my H. The two does not reside together well.
Angels, let us hear from you. Please don't stop posting.