We have been separated for 2 months. Married 20 years. He wants to work on marriage and we go to therapy but he does nothing outside of therapy. He has pointed out everything I have done wrong in our 20 year marriage. This past summer he was texting with another women but said it was just friends. He says he has no feelings for me but that I make him very angry whenever he sees me. He doesn't understand why he has no feelings for me. Therapy is not helping. we are suppose to have date nights and family time but he doesn't follow thru or it ends up he gets mad and then doesn't talk to me for a week. At a lost as to what to do. He has completely changed since a year and half ago. Any thoughts? Can this be a mid-life crises and maybe AP?
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).
Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
He said in therapy he has no feelings for me and then said he feels very angry whenever he sees me. Is it possible to get the feelings back or is it too late?
Please post on this thread until 100 posts.
Do not start a new thread each time you have a new idea.
Last post merged with your previous thread.
He has completely changed since a year and half ago.
Any thoughts?
Can this be a mid-life crises and maybe AP?
It is certainly possible that it is a MLC as he sounds depressed and is blaming you.
It sounds like part of the script.
What if it is, then what do YOU want?
Hi skhdive,
Welcome! And I am so sorry that you need to be here. Fortunately, there is hope for your M, and most important there is hope for you.
Maybe you want to start telling your story a little by little in your posts. Like Cadet said, it seems he is an MLC but that is just part of the script.
The one thing you will hear a lot from all of us that are here for awhile, is that you need to start taking care of yourself. Eat well, try to sleep enough hours a day, go out with your girlfriends, do some GAL to distract and reinvent yourself, get some emotional support with a close friend(s) or family.
If you can't function well right now, go to your doctor and discuss the use of anti depressants, it may be good for you to just get something light to just take out the harsh edges.
If you did not start yet, go to an IC by yourself. Independent of doing therapy together w/your H, it's important you start working on yourself.
Read DB or DR books, or both if you can. There are a lot of info there and also a lot of valuable info here in these boards.
Hang in there, it is the most horrible and hard thing you can ever experience, but if you take one day after another, things start to look a little different if not better.
(((((((skhdive)))))))
For me it started this summer with him being distant,
angry at me and my son and just in general even his mother asked what was wrong with him and he started listening to country music and running which he has never done
and then I found out he was texting this OW he said it was nothing just friends and when I asked he said he would stop and he was sorry and he knew it wasn't right.
I think he did stop but I also discovered that he was texting a couple other women from his work after that which he says are just friends.
He is obsessed with his body (he is weightlifter) thinks he is losing his muscle, we fought every day until he moved out because he did not want to talk about our relationship,
says I didn't love him, don't respect him, ask too many questions, in his face etc says when he sees me he feels angry and loves me but not sure it is the right way, has no feelings for me, that our marriage is full of problems, none of which our therapist can get him to name except he feels controlled by me his mother and other people.
He seems depressed at times says he can't sleep at night, doesn't want to talk and when asked what he wants out of our marriage he is not sure.
I have tried to be nice, not ask questions (I do ask questions in past because he would come home and give big sigh and then sit down so I would ask what is wrong and then he would get mad).
I have thought someone else or MLC or both.
I have asked him if there is anyone else and if so just tell me so we won't be wasting all this time on therapy and making it so painful on us both. He fanatically denies anyone else. Any suggestions.
I'm sorry that you are here -- but I have to echo what Cadet says about depression and blaming you. Research angry depressed spouses and see if you might identify with what's going on.
My H turned nuclear meltdown angry seemingly overnight and was angry for months and it was ALL MY FAULT (according to him). Told me he had checked out of the marriage, that I controlled him, that he would "never trust his heart to me again", ILYBINILWY, the whole nine yards. All while screaming this at me. For two months straight.
Seven months later? He's finally seeking help for serious depression. Admitted that it wasn't all my fault, and that alot of what he said when he left wasn't true.
Take a step back, breathe, take care of yourself and use this time to reflect.
Thanks I will do that.
Right now I just started reading DB.
it really felt awful to hear him say he just didn't feel anything for me. (I thought yeah you do, anger) LOL.
He keeps saying its been two months since I moved out and nothing has changed.
When I ask what do you want changed he doesn't know.
Maybe he wants the feeling of love back.
therapist told him he will have to work at it and put in effort and he said he thinks it should just be there either it is or it isn't so marriage can't work if it isn't there.
She told him he needed to decided to take action or won't be there.
Right now he is so angry he doesn't want to do anything even though he says "I am here aren't I' when we are in therapy.
One thing to bear in mind is that we could spend much time debating the cause of this. It may be MLC (which gets my vote) depression or an AP. It could be all three...
The important thing is what you do next. Have you read DR? Make that a priority as it will help you understand the tools and techniques people talk about on this site.
The book suggest you start thinking about how you want to improve yourself. Because you can't control your H - only yourself.
It also suggests GAL - getting a life. Doing new things that get you out, take your mind off things, meet new people ideally and extend yourself.
GAL should lead to more detachment, because your H is doing some confusing and hurtful things right now. He's probably got himself into a bit of a hole, and will pull you in there if you let him. Detaching from the situation protects you as you are less affected by what he is doing.
These basic principles apply whatever he situation, so read the book, read these boards and understand the basic premise of DBing.
Keep posting my friend. You'll get lots of support here...
Oh yes. I've heard all of that before.
- I don't feel anything for you, I'm done with you. (I pointed out that anger was an emotion.)
-Nothing will change
- I don't know what I want (likely, and still true)
- My H thought that going to therapy was going to be a magical fix. His exact wording was, "I thought the therapist was going to say something and it was just going to magically click and be better again." Now that he's having to put the work in on himself....he realizes that it's hard.
I would caution you about marriage counseling while this angry. In my case, my H went to .....four? MC before he just announced that he was only doing it to make me feel better and blah blah blah blah, I don't even have the energy to re-hash it.
Perhaps individual therapy might be a better alternative until he's more on board with MC?
....just speaking from experience.
Yikes sounds like same guy! LOL I am going to individual therapist tomorrow to get some of my self assuredness back. Its funny how it makes you feel so needy and desperate when a year ago I was just fine. I am really curious to know if his feelings are just masked and if he can get them back? probably only if he wants to do the work which right now he says he does but he does not back it up with any type of action.
I appreciate on the sound advice. I feel better already just knowing I am not alone and its not all my fault that are marriage is very rocky right now.
S, that's the way to think girl. You sound like a strong person that is going through a tough time in her life.
Hang in there. It may be for a while that you will be in this situation, so do no panic, do not run... take it one day at a time. Make the most to enjoy yourself, get your kid and have some fun time, even if it is just minutes.
Try to be positive, upbeat when he is around. In my experience, I let my H roller coaster to get the best of me. I finally got this. I was doing many things to show I am moving on with my life but I was always allowing him to be part of it.
Finally, I understand that I need to give myself some space too and I need to show with my actions that I respect myself, that I am able to move on without him, that I want him back but not just for a few hours. That's not acceptable.
My H may be in MLC, even my IC says he think so. But his problem is his own issue alone, and he needs to deal with it in his own time. Meantime, I am working on the things I can get better. For 18 years in the marriage, I lost my own identity and I need to rewrite myself now.
So, be gentle with yourself, take one day at a time, relax your heart a little. It is very hard everything you are living now. But it get easier with time.
We will be with you in this journey, you will be OK with your H or without him. I am sending a big hug to you, the one that will give you hope for the next hard day.
((((((((skhdive)))))))))
Love,
Pink
Made it thru the weekend. Thanks Pink17 for the post. You sound to be in a good place yourself. He came over this morning to pick up our child I threw up the door and walked away saying I was late I then hurried around the house getting my stuff. He wanted to show my some motorcycles he was looking at so I stopped and looked and said which one I liked then I said ok I have to go and said bye guys and left.
He does not text or call me unless it has to do with our child. I had been texting him once every other day but have given that up unless it is something to do with our child. We originally were doing date nights and family nights which I initiated by asking. I have stopped that. I figure if he really wants to get marriage back on track he will initiate otherwise I am doing my own thing.
It is hard to forget about him but at this point I just keep coming up with things to keep me busy and focus on I am good person and I am strong and not needy or desperate and worse case scenario he leaves, goes with OP but I will still have my child, family and home.
I have not talked with him all day and just now he text me about a vehicle he wants to buy telling me he almost bought it. I think he was waiting for me to say no or you should but all I did was say oh okay and I got a few more texts and then that was it. Weird?
I have not talked with him all day and just now he text me about a vehicle he wants to buy telling me he almost bought it. I think he was waiting for me to say no or you should but all I did was say oh okay and I got a few more texts and then that was it. Weird?
No not wierd he thinks you are his mother and he was looking for your approval.
Good job in the way you responded.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
So today we have couples therapy which is going no place because he puts no effort in except to show up and he told me on the phone that he doesn't want to go because it makes him feel angry and it goes no where. No kidding. I feel like saying to him then stop going if you don't want to because if you don't want to be there then it isn't going to do any good.
What do you guys think?
So today we have couples therapy which is going no place because he puts no effort in except to show up and he told me on the phone that he doesn't want to go because it makes him feel angry and it goes no where. No kidding. I feel like saying to him then stop going if you don't want to because if you don't want to be there then it isn't going to do any good.
What do you guys think?
I agree it is likely a waste of time and money
^^^^^^
You will get a better ROI throwing cash in the air and trying to catch it:) Waste of time at this juncture. Focus on you and hang in there!
I just feel that if we quit nothing will happen, that we will be in limbo at least in therapy we talk and she gives us ideas on what to do even though he doesn't really follow thru.
I feel like I will be tossing it to the wind. Maybe there is OP?
I don't say any of this to be hurtful, but what exactly is happening now? You said he won't participate in date nights, family nights, and is angry at you. Sometimes doing nothing is doing something (some very wise peeps here told me that a while back.
Your marriage as you know it is done. Put a fork in it. It totally sukks and is difficult to believe. However, it is true. So you have no choice but to let go of the old M. It IS possible to build a new R. However, holding on with a death grip to something that no longer exists is like drinking poison to kill someone else.
Actions speak much louder than words. Talking schmalking. So you get ideas and he does nothing? Just think about that from a logical perspective for a moment.
Step back and focus on you. You can do this.
Point taken. I am going to go for it today and tell him if he wants to quit, quit.
Ok back from therapy he says he wants to still work on it. He told therapist that he wants to have feelings for me but he doesn't feel anything for me. He said when he is not in therapy he does not think about me. Very hurtful to hear. How do you not feel something for your wife of 20 years?.
therapist told him he would have to work at getting the feelings back and he said he thought they should just be there now and if not they should come back on their own. She said they wouldn't.
He said he would make an effort. Just more of the same thing he has been saying for last 3 months we have been in therapy.
I am giving him two weeks then I am done. I said I would need to see some effort by communicating with me more (baby steps). I don't want to be with someone that does not think or care about me and I don't understand why he would want to stay in this marriage if that is how he feels. Thoughts?
He is gone for a week we will see if he reaches out to me while gone I am not going to reach out to him. We will see. I don't understand if you don't love someone and have no feelings why doesn't he file for divorce?
Any thoughts on this love issue? It is so hurtful to hear those things. How do you just stop loving or having any feelings for someone?
When he said that we were in therapy and she asked me how that made me feel and I said it was upsetting. He just looked at me like there you go. I also said how do you have no feelings when you say that every time you look at me you feel angry. How back in May you were so jealous of a guy at my work you thought I was cheating. He said he has felt that way for 2 years.
SK,
Again, I realize this is very difficult and I feel saddened each time I read a new thread. However, you will drive yourself crazy trying to figure out the "whys?", "hows?" and "how could theys?" with people who are not completely rational at the moment. The reality is that although his announcement may have seemed sudden, your h has been internalizing and mulling a change for a looooong time. He removed himself a while back but neglected to tell you until BD. Please know I don't say any of this to be hurtful.
Why doesn't he file for divorce? I'll be blunt......could be a number of things...laziness, doesn't want to go thru the effort, doesn't want to deal with anything, doesn't want to be seen as a bad guy, doesn't really want one (now that also doesn't necessarily mean he wants to work on the M either), etc. It is possible that your h is continuing with counseling to say "he tried everything" to alleviate guilt. Keep reading here. You will see and hear it all.
For your own benefit, take the focus off him. You cannot "talk" him out of this. Actions speak louder than words. Detach and focus on making your life rich. Can you rebuild a R with your h? It is certainly possible although it probably won't be in the time frame you are hoping for.
What do you want? What is important to you? Going to IC is a good step for you and it sounds like you understand the importance of taking care of YOU. Hang in there. It DOES get better:)
Ok I understand. Should I cut off all communication with him unless he reaches out to me? In our couples therapy she told us to say one positive thing about each other every day, of course I have not heard from him and feel he should go first since he moved out and is the one with all the issues. I am in the process of reading DB and it says to change things up. For me that would be quick sending him the every other day text, don't call for any reason and basically live my life without him.
That is hard to do but I am getting better every day.
I feel you are right about the marriage counseling I think he feels it is something he should do even though the other day I told him we could stop if he wanted to.
He texted me today a picture of a motorcycle I did not reply back so then he said I am thinking of making an offer so I finally replied with Good Luck. What the heck? Its like he was waiting for me to say either oh you should get it or I wouldn't buy that one but I did not feed into it.
What do you think.
Probably a good idea too bad I did and then not another word from him. I need to GAL. LOL I actually working on that though. At least I pretty much expected that I wouldn't hear back from him.
Hi S,
How old are you and how old is your H? Could it be MLC? He is so into this new motorcycle. Is this a normal thing for him, or is he behaving like this just now?
My H did some of the same behavior, he left the house but still comes back like trying to get some kind of approval, comfort. After many mistakes, many big falls and riding a roller coaster that did nothing more then hurt me, I am in the way to take care after my kids and myself.
I finally understood that I can't resolve anything right now, I do not have any control over my H's actions and reactions. My best shot is to make myself better and happy and in a way maybe he will fall in love with me again.
You are still in too much dark, you do not know his real reasons for the split. You sound like a strong person that will handle it well. And when I say well, it's not that I think you will be by the book every day.
There will be days that are more difficult then other. But after 20 years in a M you know there are a lot of wounds, resentments...it will take time to work all this out.
My best advice, the one I keep giving to myself, is that you should try your best and take good care after yourself. Help yourself to sleep and eat well. For me it helps to take a mild antidepressant, it takes the edge away.
Keep posting, this makes you change and most important, makes you grow as a person and value yourself as a human being.
Hang in there,
Pink
Thanks my husband just turned 45 and I am 48. I started noticing small changes about 18 months ago. He started being more angry and more obstinate I would say. Last summer he became this angry man who fought with me every day and yelling at our child. Before this he was the most loving husband and fun guy and good father.
It has just gone down hill from there. He moved out at end of January 2015 and every couple of days he will contact me or not usually about something he wants like motorcycle. Comes to house and tells our child the house isn't his responsibility because its mine and then tells me not to buy something for the house because I am wasting money when he is the one that moved out and now we have to pay for two households.
Venting day. Thanks for listening.
I don't know if I will ever know the real reason for his total change in behavior other then MLC, nor do I care at this point. This is his problem not mine. I have done everything I can to try and fix this except to disengage and that is what I am doing. I wish him well but he has lost his marbles and needs to find them.
I will not accept nor do I want the man he has become. He is nothing like what I signed up for.
Well said S, you are indeed stronger them I have been. I was a jelly bean with my H for a long time. It was very sad how I engaged in my H's roller coaster and hurt myself a lot, and getting some 2x4s on my head every time I would post another "I gave in again, kissed, hugged and made love again".
The age is appropriate for MLC, who knows. It just strikes me that he is so into this motorcycle subject.
Or maybe he is trying to compensate himself, it is a distraction and he needs the distraction in order to cope with his guilty.
Please, keep posting, maybe we can hear about some GAL?
Believe me... you will feel better. Give yourself a chance to be happy, at least a little bit every day. It helps.
XOXO
Pink
Went to a gun safety class this weekend and learned to shoot did fairly well. It was something that I would never do so I decided that is what I would do. I actually liked the challenge of shooting at the targets.
Had not heard from spouse since Thursday when he emailed me a pic of motorcycle until I accidently sent him a text last night that was meant to go to my sister. Note to self always erase finished text messages from him. Good thing it only said last charge on card was Wednesday which he immediately responded back thinking I was checking to see what he had last bought, "Nope nothing. I haven't spent anything." So I acted like it was for him and told him about my gun class and that was it. Heard nothing back.
I am back on the no contact wagon and I erased text message so that won't happen again. LOL
I think the only thing to do if this is MLC which after reading some posts and his obsession with motorcycles and working out, is to wait it out while feeling lucky that I have my son all the time and the house. I actually have it pretty good with him living somewhere else and not having to live with his anger. I can do what I want when I want to.
As long as I stay away from him and do not contact him I feel pretty good. Its when I hear from him or see him I start to doubt myself .
As long as I stay away from him and do not contact him I feel pretty good. Its when I hear from him or see him I start to doubt myself .
Sounds like you have given yourself good advice!
Protect Yourself!
No word from Mr. MLC as I have taken to calling him. I had a thought today this is going to be my life. He is off doing whatever it is he needs to do. I can't control that but I can do what I want and there was a fun life before him and there will be again only now I have someone to share it with, my son10.
I am thankful that I live and can afford my house, have my child, my dogs, a good job that is understanding and makes it affordable for me to have all of the above. I am thankful that I know what I want in life. I look at him and he hasn't a clue and he doesn't realize what he has and I can see him struggling thru guilt etc... I am lucky I don't have to struggle with him!
No word from Mr. MLC as I have taken to calling him.
I hope you meant that you stopped calling him as that what the previous posts said!
LOL I meant his new name is Mr. MLC. I would not call him at this point unless it was a dire emergency with our son.
But thanks for the reminder do not call him!
How long does MLC last anyway. I think he started a couple of years ago. As I think back on things it seems his personality which was always very loving, caring and giving, bringing me flowers every week and lunch at work to he just stopped a couple of years ago and once in a while he would call for lunch but not like it use to be. He would text and call from work. Last summer he did that less frequent to now where I don't hear from him at all.
He became angrier. He is now angry every day at me or at least whenever he sees me. He told the therapist this also that he is angry every time he sees me and doesn't know why.
Hi skhdive. I think people say 5-7 years with MLC. My H also shows signs of MLC, starting from a couple of years ago. He shows no signs of coming out right now. Have you read the stuff on hearts blessings website? I found that helpful. I also read Jim Conway's book, which was quite helpful. Both have helped me feel more empathetic if H is going through this. I'm reluctant to diagnose/label, but I think it's good to cover all the bases - just in case!
How long does MLC last anyway.
IMHO it is better to not ask or to know a time frame.
I will say it is almost never less than 2 years, could be 50 years, or anywhere in between.
Lol my Husband is 37 and I'm pretty sure he has hit his MLC already.
I just have to detach and let go.
Lol my Husband is 37 and I'm pretty sure he has hit his MLC already.
I just have to detach and let go.
My post had nothing to do with age, it was time from bomb drop.
Age would be between 20 to 90 years old
Thanks everyone for your input. I will look at the website Hearts Blessing. Thanks for the info
You are right, you can't put a label on it but it helps to know that I am not the only one with this going on.
Hi Skhdive,
You sound really good. I am sure you have the ups and downs as we all have experienced. But I would say you have the right attitude.
It's very hard to determined if our Hs are dealing w/MLC or if they are just lost at some point in life and want to taste freedom, adventure again. Maybe they are very bored with the family life.
The truth is that I tried my best to go in circles looking for the answers of all my "Why this and why that", and it was just that... circles.
There is nothing we can do really, we can't control what they do or want. We can control ourselves and our lives and try to make somewhat the best of it.
With time I have been learning to let go a little more. It hurts, but I have been better for myself lately.
Hope you can find peace during this transition time, have hope and keep doing what is best for yourself.
XOXO
Pink
Pink17, you also seem very strong. In the beginning that is all I could think about was what he was doing why was this happening it was crazy, who is this guy? I asked where is the guy I married and he said he is dead. I believe him now.
I do not want him in my life as the guy he is now. He is a downer, no fun. He use to laugh and joke around. If we fought it would be for 2 seconds and then one of us would make a joke. Now he holds on to anger for days. You walk on egg shells when he is around. I felt like I was a tap dancer. LOL. He has told so many lies, hiding money, going places, text messaging other women and then saying he wasn't. Trust is blown.
I think it would take too much to get it back now. He has said so many hurtful things and really just walking out and leaving my son and us to fiend for ourselves just burns me and saying he doesn't even think about me. It pushed me over the edge to where I saw that my life has continued and is better without him in it as I don't have to listen to all his crap.
there are more fish in the sea and quite frankly I life the freedom I have to do as I please and not answer to anyone but myself and my child.
I have gone total dark. I don't even think about him until I come here and then its always just makes me even more determined to detach.
What is it about when you see them you feel like a tornado hit you and everything positive is sucked right at of you.
Got home today and there was H. Looking his usually depressed unhappy self. It [censored] the life right out of me. He has been gone for 8 days with no word from him (we are separated but he comes to the house to pick up our child for school some days). I have been doing and feeling very positive then there he is and he makes me feel like I am making him be this unhappy depressed person. Trouble is he says when he is not around me he is fine and happy. So shouldn't he still be happy even though he stops by to pick up our child. How can he be happy and then when he sees me go all unhappy? He should still be happy I don't talk about our R or anything and remain my usual happy self. I feel like he is lying about being happy and fine when he is not around me I think its an act.
What is it about when you see them you feel like a tornado hit you and everything positive is sucked right at of you.
Got home today and there was H. Looking his usually depressed unhappy self. It [censored] the life right out of me. He has been gone for 8 days with no word from him (we are separated but he comes to the house to pick up our child for school some days). I have been doing and feeling very positive then there he is and he makes me feel like I am making him be this unhappy depressed person.
Why do you feel that he's "making you" feel the way you do? Something I've been working with my IC for myself and my sitch is the concept of "you make me." Physically, people aren't making us do anything. It's more that we are reacting to something that is upsetting us.
Trouble is he says when he is not around me he is fine and happy.
What he says, and what reality is could be two different things.
So shouldn't he still be happy even though he stops by to pick up our child. How can he be happy and then when he sees me go all unhappy? He should still be happy I don't talk about our R or anything and remain my usual happy self. I feel like he is lying about being happy and fine when he is not around me I think its an act.
You're "shoulding" all over yourself. You're expecting him to react in a way that you feel is appropriate. As hard as it is (and this is something I struggle with daily), let go off the concept of how someone should react to a situation.
Very good points. I am going to work on those things. you are right only I control the way he can affect me when he is around. Thank you.
Ok we had it out last night. I am tired of playing the game of are we doing things together or not. Our child had a concert and in therapy we are suppose to be doing things together as H said he wanted to work on things (which he has never done yet). He said do you want to take him or me? I said why don't we go together. All through the concert he sat one chair away and walked clear away from me. So at end of night after our child had gone in the house I asked him if he wanted to continue being together and trying to do anything or not. I asked for a yes or no answer. He started screaming and yelling (predicted) and said I made him angry all the time and he is sick of arguing so No. I said fine, go file divorce papers. He said he wasn't filing any divorce papers and for me to do what I needed to do.
I am fine living separated thinking maybe in time he will come around or not but his checks are still being deposited in our bank account and I have our child all the time and I have good health insurance thru him so I am planning on doing nothing. Either he will file or do nothing also.
Has anyone had anything like this situation?
What is everyone's opinion do you think he will file? He is so angry. He makes fists and his hands shake even when he was driving to concert and I was in back sit and our child was in front seat and no one was talking. I don't understand all the anger he says its because of me. I don't know how.
What is everyone's opinion do you think he will file? He is so angry. He makes fists and his hands shake even when he was driving to concert and I was in back sit and our child was in front seat and no one was talking. I don't understand all the anger he says its because of me. I don't know how.
There is no way to know what he will do.
His anger is at himself, projected on to you.
Detach!
skhdive,
If you truly don't mind being separated, I'd keep insurance, check, etc as they are if its in your benefit. However, I'd recommend in the meantime getting in order what you can to support yourself if one day H decides to make moves financially.
I wouldn't push divorce talk or tell him to go file out of anger. The wife of a couple we're friends with constantly said that to her WAH and he would tell me how it just made him more angry and distant. He's moved to another state where OW is and as far as I know they still haven't filed. I think with these situations where no immediate divorce talks have been done, its each spouse trying to hold out to not be the one who filed.
What eventually led my W to move into her rental was I came off as needy sexually. I continued to pursue her and it drove her further away emotionally. Now I'm semi LRT and its like she's went LRT too. What made her make her finances separate was when she found out I was making mine separate. So this is just a quick summary of how things went with me. I'm no vet so I'm not saying they are right or wrong, just FYI.
I wish you the best in your journey. I'm still in mine with no resolve yet.
I wonder why he thinks it is me. Is this some sort of guilt? yes I agree detaching is best. Just hard some days still even though they treat us so bad and are mean. I feel like a glutton for punishment. I better snap my head around.
Thanks for the advice. So I think you are saying go dark and don't mention divorce talk and just let him be and see what he does? Sounds like a good plan. I am going to try it. I think it was just hard for me because I kept expecting us to do stuff together because that is what he would say in therapy and then outside of therapy I would wait and nothing ever came of it so then I would ask why at least now I have closure on that part.
I wonder why he thinks it is me. Is this some sort of guilt?
It is not guilt.
He thinks its you because you are the closest thing around him, and he knows you the best.
He is in DENIAL and it can't be him!
So who should it be if it is not him, you are next in line.
Detaching sometimes works because what happens when you are not around anymore, then he may have no choice but to look in the mirror at himself.
I hate to hijack Cadet but I respect your opinion so much. Could you take a look at my thread - Letting Go by Heavy D. I am not sure what to make of it.
Thank you and apologies for the blatant hijack
skhdive
I haven't read up on your sitch up to present, but from what I gathered from the last page it seemed he wasn't deep in an affair. So, no, I'm not saying go dark. I would say detach and do so after reading detachment post on
pg 6 of this one
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2560630#Post2560630When I went dark for one day in the early stages of my situation, wife flooded me with emails at work and chatting about this that and the other. However, now that I've turned to that again, its like she doesn't care and I think a big part of the don't care is that she is more than likely in an affair and if not is getting attention from other guys.
My situation is that he moved out 3 months ago. Last summer he was talking/texting with OW. He said it was just friends. He said he quit texting her. So we started working on our M and it just went down hill from there. The anger surfaced directed at me and other people notice it too like when we went to my child's concert last evening my sister said the anger just radiates off of him. He tries to keep it in check but you can see it in his face. He clenches and unclenches his fists.
He used to wrestle around with our child and now he will a little and then he gets mad. I watch his face and it just changes.
Also my H doesn't care either. He was gone for 8 days on vacation and I never heard from him once neither did our child.
Has your husband been checked over by his GP? Thyroid check and the what not? I would suggest that, if you can. I would also research the role anger plays in depression and other mental illnesses.
I'm not saying that he is mentally ill, but there seems to be a link between them.
Just throwing it out there from personal experience.
Hi Skhdive,
You whole situation socks right now. But you are doing the right thing for yourself and for your child.
In my situation I filed for D because I did not want to be on my H mercy to deposit money or let us stay in a house. My financial situation right now is not very good and I need his income for us to keep the life the kids and I have.
I filed for security. I got professional advice, then I researched a few attorneys to hire one that made more sense to me.
My H can no longer hurt us financially. He has OW and I was not sure how far it could go. At first my H tried to blame me for what was happening to him. I left him alone since the beginning, I never put myself in his way and then finally he stopped.
I always said to him that if this is what he wants then I would not stay in his way. I never asked him for any favor, I handle the kids as much as I need and don't ask for his opinion in anything.
Soon, he will need to pay for not being there. Yes, he is not a present father, then he will need to pay with money for his absence. I am pressing him hard with the law in my side. I really do not care about his needs right now.
I agree with Cadet about his anger being projected into you. It's like when a teenager explode in big rage against their parents. Love & Logic! Your aggression will always be first at the ones you love and are close to you.
Your H is dealing with a turmoil of emotions right now. He probably does not know what he wants, what he is doing or what is happening to him. Like Cadet said, he is in Denial and he will not see things clear until he gets back to being normal again.
It takes time, take patience. You are doing the right thing even tough it is very hard. The pain is strong and feels like the poison will kill you at any given day, but day to day you will find strength to get one more day done.
Your H probably hates seeing you happy. Things were not good for him in your M, he got involved with someone else and God knows what else. My H is using drugs for example. Now he is the bottom of the well and he does not know how to get out. He will need to work hard on himself, he will need to face his failures and his mistakes and then he will be able to look at the M situation and make a conscious decision.
Live your life the best way you can now. Slowly you will detach and things will be a little better. Give yourself time too, you are hurt and need time to clean all what is hurting you. Give love to your child, they are just victims of these whole mess.
Talk to us, we are here to help each other. One day you need help and the other one you will give help.
Praying for you and your kid.
Love,
Pink
Wow that was really motivating advice from you guys. Thanks so much. You are right I get stronger every day.
H has been texting me since last Thursday when we agreed we were done. Last weekend he brought me a sandwich for breakfast and lunch and we had family time on Sunday his choice not mine. What the heck? It's like he did a 180 but I can still see the anger under the surface and I am not buying it.
Yesterday he spent an hour texting me about different motorcycles and wanting my opinion. Still not buying it because I see its all about him. I am nice but not overly and I don't contact him first and I am not expecting anything from him. In my mind I am detaching and doing my thing.
I don't understand all the communication over the last 3 days but whatever.
And more texts today however they all revolve around motorcycles that he is interested in. Not sure why he is sharing this with me but it makes me wonder if there is maybe not a OW? Wouldn't he be sharing that with her or am I getting my hopes up?
Advice?
Ok so today he text me and might buy a motorcycle finally. Whatever, now he wants me to pick him up and take him back to pick up truck and then drive him back for motorcycle and he will take me to lunch. I am guessing maybe there isn't another OW as wouldn't he have her do this for him?
I probably shouldn't even go there. I will just maintain my detachment because I do much better with that then thinking anything is changing.
Skhdive,
If it does not bother you too much or don't disturb you own day, I would say you do all the picking up and driving and then have lunch with him.
That's some opportunity to do "as IF" and "180s", dress nice, look good, be polite, be a little happy, show with actions that you are feeling pretty good, show some interest for his talking, look him in the eyes, enjoy your time. Who knows what is he looking for?
I agree with you that being detached is the best approach, if you can then it will help you to talk nicely with him.
Good luck.
Pink
Ok so we went to lunch and he was happy and almost like old self except he kept talking about all the trips him and "the guys" who all have motorcycles want to take which obviously excludes me or that they will meet their wives in Florida on their bikes. No indication of me going which is fine. I didn't say anything only that that was a long way to drive.
I stayed upbeat and nonjudgmental although it was hard to do. I keep wondering who else will ride on the back of his bike? Again, I must just focus on me because that is something I can't control.
Also I can't forget all the mean and crazy things he has done and that he has moved out. He was happy and half normal today because he just bought a motorcycle. They say you can't buy happiness so I imagine this will fade and all the anger will come back and be directed at me again. But today proves that the anger is not caused by me as he was happy and I was there and that proves it.
It is really hard to detach when they come back to their old selves for a moment. Will sit back and watch and wait and see what happens next.
Keep telling myself to stay detached that this didn't mean anything today. According to him previously he fakes it and has to try really hard to not be angry and "act" like he is having fun. REally wondering if that is what he did today.
Ok so here it is in a nut shell for me. H has been texting me a lot, I suspect because of the motorcycle he wanted and some idea he thought he had to have my approval even though he moved out. Motorcycle has been bought, he has been real nice for last week. Now is the time for the TRUTH to be told. Since he has motorcycle will he stop contacting me, will he become angry again at me.
I am waiting to see how this plays out was he just wanting to talk about motorcycle or did he really want to communicate with me? We will see. I am going to wait and watch.
What do you guys thing?
Skhdive
I am not caught up on your sitch .. just read the past couple pages.
Some things I have noticed, you are WAY to much into your H's head right now ... this is not detaching, you are mind reading a TON ... how do I know this??... You are looking at the poster boy for mindreading.:D
You have no idea why he bought the bkie, how he will act now he has it ... seems to me I picked up on some guilt, when he feels guilty he TM you, is nice, talks and shares ... when the guilt drifts away .. so does he. My W did the same thing.
Now ... what do we learn here with the DB'ing? You can only control you, make yourself the better option. When you did not stand in the way nor say anything negative about him and the bike, he kept sharing with you ... something to file away for later yeah?
You need to GAL as he is appearing to do, make him start wondering what you are doing ... flip the table because right now you are all over this, how will he be, will this make him happy, will he stop contacting me ... no one knows, nor can anyone control that... you need to do you ... GAL, PMA, more GAL.
I know detachment is hard, its down right rough, but you need to find YOU again and let him be for a bit
Caliguy: Thanks that is some tough love you gave me but you are right, probably spot on. I will file away the not being negative and just letting him talk for future and in meantime I will not contact him and will get on with my GAL!
Thanks!
Starting now I am going to get up in the morning telling myself I believe our marriage "some day" will be good and that he loves me and will figure it out and god or the universe will do what is meant to be. Then I go about my business and I am not going to wonder what he is doing, going, who or anything else.
Take each moment as it comes and not anticipate what could happen.
Skhdive.
Its tough ... I know... we all struggle with it, seems if its easy to detach then one was not quite attached in the first place and they most likely would not be here, would be filing and waiting for the D day to come .. totally get it.
Here is where the meat and potatoes are, its time to work on you. You just stated:
"I will file away the not being negative and just letting him talk for future and in meantime I will not contact him and will get on with my GAL!"
I took 2 things from this... #1 the negativity, yup .. lose that and replace it with PMA, no spouse wants to go back to Mr or Mrs Grumpalupagus .... and better yet if you are out and about doing your own thing and can actually be happy (fake it till you make it up to this point) This makes the WAS stop and think, maybe even be confused .. THIS is a good thing, flips the table, now he is wondering ... what did I do? Whe is SHE happy all the sudden. Classic Bait and switch.
#2 the Contact, yeah we call it going Dim/Dark .. very useful tool, not out of punishment but because you are so darned busy and having such a good time, you really are not locked into being available ... this tool was important for me and turning things around, drove W nuts when I was 'distant'
Another thing ... you touched on it, and this helped me over the detachment hump. I became VERY religious through all this, it just happened. Giving it to God, was the best move I could have possibly made. Had my wishes and wants been granted when I wanted them, things would not have worked out, I needed time to change ... as did my W. Use this time to become a better choice, as the book states .. a person only a fool would leave.
Some really good advice from CaliGuy, read it many times and follow it like a bible. It helps and it makes a difference after a while.
I really have no idea if my H will came back or not, but doing the GAL and being more busy with my own life made him pay more attention and even did some stuff in an attempt to stop me, delay me.
So, it works. You are always there, then you are not, you start having your own life without them. That's when they think about what they are doing.
Great, great advice.
XOXO
Pink
Question: Once separated from spouse and living on own how do you know when its time to move back together. do you let the spouse who wanted to move out broach the subject?
Not that we are close to that or anything I am just curious how that usually works.
Did you move out or him? In case of the WAS moving out, I've seen on the boards to usually leave it up to them unless you've reached the point of living like so indefinitely or moving towards divorce.
I'm not advocating this, but on some other website it spoke of the spouses having a plan to work on reconciliation while separated. Unfortunately, most of us here are doing what we can alone in hopes the WAS comes out of the fog.
My WAW and I have been separated for one 6 month lease. When I asked was she renewing her lease again (not sure if it was the right thing to ask at the time or if it set me back in sitch) she said she was. So here I am trying to work on self, GAL, and hope that maybe when this one is up she'll move back in and want to work on us.
Stay strong on your journey.
We initially separated and he said he wanted to work on marriage and getting back together but so far nothing has changed in our situation.
Friday he asked me to go on motorcycle ride and we did and then he dropped me off that was the end of it. Saturday he text and said he would take our S to lunch and asked if I wanted to come. I declined as I had a prior appointment. He was watching fight with some guys at a house. He text me that night and said he didn't go it was cancelled and a few other casual comments via text. I heard from him once yesterday.
I am confused. Why being kind of nice all of a sudden. Then today I get a calendar invite from him for Vacation at the same time we had originally schedule our family vacation. I took it as to rub my face in the fact that he is going on vacation at the same time as me and our S our going.
It was mean and it hurt and I don't understand why he would calendar invite me to his vacation.
I don't know what he wants and I am confused I have been doing so good about detaching and not expecting anything and then for the last week he has been texting me and nice. So weird.
I feel like I am having a set back. I have a question. Is it a good idea not to contact them unless they contact us first. I feel like I can contact him first once in a while since he spent last week contacting me first.
Any Advice?
Depends on how things ended in your last conversation.
It ended friendly we kinda of joked around so I contacted him today and I got one word "Yep" back and so I sent one more text and nothing so I have stopped and now I will wait for him to make contact with me. Kind of the ball is in his court and maybe a lesson learned for me not to contact him first anymore for awhile. I don't think he is receptive to it and it makes me wait around to see if he will text back.
so I am GAL, live and learn and tomorrow is a new day and learn from what I did today.
then don't contact him. I mean you're so busy with your GAL that you don't (and shouldn't) have time for him... right?
LOL got it yes I am so busy with my GAL! It's like touching a hot pot and getting your fingers burn you would think I would learn my lesson.
skhdive
Thing you have to start doing is detach and get out of his head ... this will help you in many areas .. one of which is right there in front of you
You detached and your H started pursuing you, motorcycle ride, THEN you decided to TM him, you flipped it and started pursuing .. he immediately backed off .... DB ... Do what works right?
GAL and PMA, get busy doing your thing and make yourself someone he WANTS to be with, not out of guilt or obligation.
Yep its hard to stay out of that mindtrap of his. I am working on this. Texting yeah I thought it would be ok in moderation because I wanted to show that I want to be friendly but it must just be on his terms.
He did bring me a coffee today when he came to pick up S for school and he loaded up some junk to take to dump. I text him later and thanked him but I have heard nothing from him.
No more texting from me today. I apprec the points CaliGuy!
Last night I got home and he had mowed my yard. So he is being halfway nice and doing things but as soon as I get home he chats for a few minutes and then leaves. I wonder why he doesn't stay and talk or maybe ask me out for dinner. Is this expecting too much? Should I just be glad that he is staying long enough for me to get home and we see each other if only for a few minutes? This is more then it has been.
Should I ask him to stay for dinner or would that be too much? I have really tried to back off the contacting him first and when he is there I try and talk but also do my thing.
Advice please!!
should I just wait it out and wait for him to ask me to dinner or do something other then small talk. He did ask me for motorcycle ride last Friday but he seems reluctant to move on from small talk.
MLC is so confusing because I don't want to scare him off but I don't want him to think he has to do all the work
The small talk is fine. That can gradually be transitioned into more serious talks later. Just roll with it and have fun. Don't invest too many emotions into it because this could be his way of reaching out and he'll probably retreat afterwards.
No sense in trying to analyze what he's doing when he doesn't even know what he's doing himself.
Thanks for the good advice you are right something is better then nothing and it actually is not painful right now however when I try to guess what is meant by it that is where I run into problems and I think I would be better off by "not investing too many emotions or thoughts on it.
skhdive I don't mean to hijack
Mr. Bond,
If the WAS was communicating/acting friendly
then the LBS snoops and WAS finds out
then LBS goes LRT and WAS does the same
How should the LBS go about getting communication/friendliness back or should it be of any concern?
Arcola, I'm not sure what your question is. Do you have a thread somewhere?
I do its in Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs named To Pursue or Not #2. I haven't mentioned it there, only to my IC which happens to be one of DB's.
So here's a little more detail
-WAW has/had EA, I don't know if it was PA
-Pretty much been a doormat for WAW and we're S as of Dec 2014
-Since bomb drop, we've been friendly, small talk throughout the day via emails, doing things with kids, etc. but no intimacy or talks on improving situation
-On a 3-day trip with the kids in May, I get a hold of her cell phone and she's met this guy at her 2nd job and they text each other alot, and he's been over once but she fell asleep (nothing happened), some of text exchange is sexting; she referred to me as her ex in texts to him
-On way back home from trip I confront her about it, she said nothing happened along with how it just felt right, and they don't talk anymore, plus he's in another country now
-I decide to go last resort technique and all the friendliness between W and I goes away too
***Note***
Through Facebook snooping this past month I highly suspect she's got an EA going on with one or two OMs and I can only suspect its probably PA.
So what actions should I take to get back that friendliness from her? I thought she was growing warmer towards me despite finding out about OM2. Or should I continue on my last resort technique as well as GAL, etc.
No word today from H so I think people were right in telling me not to get too emotionally involved with his small talk that he was doing. I feel if you really care he would continue to contact me.
Saw H this morning when he came to pick up our S. he seemed to have retreated just like you said Mr. Bond. He was not near as friendly or joking like he was for the past week and a half. I wonder what makes them do this. I know stay out of his head and I am going to stay out of his path.
do you think just wait for him to contact me now?
Its so confusing when they do this. I am doing good with the GAL then he is nice and I think okay maybe things are changing around and then nope.
I can't help but wonder why he is nice and then he goes an entire day and no contact it just makes no sense. Maybe he just needs space but sometimes I just want to say hey what about us?
When I do something around the house like get a propane tank for grill he tells me just let me do it. I went ahead and did it myself and he got half mad and said "I told you to let me do it" There are other things that I will have my nephew help me with and he gets mad and says it wasn't done the right way and then in the next breath he says well I don't care its your house. (We both own it though he has moved out)
Which way does he want it? He moved so its my responsibility yet when I do something then he is mad.
ok so therapist said today that she thought he may have had someone else maybe only emotionally though she doesn't seem to really buy into the MLC theories. She seemed to think it is something but not a major event like what we read. I have to disagree with her there but maybe it really was just a good old fashion affair but it sure fits the bill of the MLC threads.
If it was or is an affair I would think he would have filed for divorce by now since this has been going on since the end of last summer all the anger and weirdness and moving out.
I told him 2 weeks ago if he had someone else I would file the papers since it doesn't seem like he wanted to but he said there is no one else. I know that's what they all say and I also know I can't second guess him or what is in his head so I need to GAL. LOL
Today he told me even though we don't live together now he felt the need to tell me that he was going to "bike night" on his new Harley.
I felt that kick in the stomach and wanted to say what a stupid thing to do what are you going for to pick up girls or get attention. I didn't but it really bothered me that he would do that. I know we are separated but he has never been to a "bike night" in his life. He said he was going with a bunch of guys from work.
It made me feel like he was going to try and pick up girls and/or get attention. That is just my impression of bike night. Of course I could be wrong.
How do I handle this? Do I just not say anything, no reaction? I feel he is waiting for me to say something negative as he has said for awhile now that I control him.
Is this his way of testing me to see if I will say anything or is he going through his second childhood. Its all about him.
skhdive
If you read a bit here, few ... if any... therapists will buy into the MLC thing, just seems like its bigfoot or something, however you read enough here, see all the similarities, live it, you know it is real ... very real.
Again ... reading your sitch ... you are focused on H, totally get that that is why we all are here. BUT ... what are YOU doing? H is GALing ... bike night ... look at how that effects you, you need to GAL and do your own thing, not for a reaction out of H (That will follow) but more importantly to start rebuilding yourself, you need to grow and heal ... this is very important.
Get out and do something new, experience life, use this time you have to start making some changes about yourself .. the ones you always have thought about doing .. yeah .. that one .. go do it.... consider it homework.
Yep. H is GAL and I have our S all the time every night it makes it a little harder but I can incorporate him into my things. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't have it any other way.
Yeah I totally believe the MLC thing especially when I read the thread about the chapters of it. My H hit every single one.
I guess I should be glad that at least he shared with me what he is doing tonight. For the past few months he has never volunteered any information about what is was doing. That is why I wondered why he even bother to tell me what he was doing and that is why I thought he did to get my reaction. What do you think Caliguy?