My WAW Story Part II - DivorceBusting.com

Just got locked on previous thread. Will start a new one. How can I save the previous one or link it over to this one? So as not to lose everything.

New update and question. The W said she doesn't want to rush into anything, and that she doesn't trust it will be different or that she will be happy. I think that means she she's some difference in the stitch, is there anything else I could do to make that better, or just keep backing off, and let her see more? She brought up that she really misses the kiddos, and it was eating at her.

It hurts so much to hear her say that. I don't want her to have to miss them, but I know it's not me that she misses, and I don't want her to come back just for the kids. She has to want to come back to me as well.

Actually got to eat dinner with W and the kids. Had a decent time just talking about stuff she had done. Was so hard to not want to talk about us at all, but I just refrained and actually looked into her eyes and listened with everything I had. All good stories and just was nice to actually hear some things from her. I know it meant nothing for us, was all about the kids, but was still nice.

Looking in the eyes thing was something she hated because I would never do it. It was because it got to where I had no respect for her, and just didn't care what she said. I can say now I really do care what she says. It may be too late for us, but it's good to know that I still can do it. I have always been that way though, from feelings of being not good enough. Always wanting to look away instead of in a persons eyes, due to either not caring or thinking I wasn't good enough.

I actually saw the old wife just a little but come through. You could tell she was trying not to show anything though, would stop or look away herself sometimes. But just to see it for a little bit was good.

And she asked to have dinner with the kids, and said I could stay and eat with them if I wanted. At first I said are you sure it's okay to stay, shouldn't have said that, should have just said yes and went on. But it was difficult to think I could be comfortable with her after the convo earlier. I guess just tests and trying to be nice for the kids. Oh well was a overall good night!!

Good job man!

You're realizing some of the things you need to work on and working on them. Babysteps.

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And she asked to have dinner with the kids, and said I could stay and eat with them if I wanted. At first I said are you sure it's okay to stay, shouldn't have said that, should have just said yes and went on.

Good recovery Roid76. Its true being confident all the time and just saying yes or no when you have to is way more attractive for W...and you grow in your manhood showing more of your decisiveness.

You did real good tonight. keep it up! You are being the man she would be a fool to walk away from!

Proud of you Roid, keep those changes going and she won't be able to not notice them.

So hard to want to continue to fight. Today for some reason, I am feeling very down and beaten, like I won't be able to get her to come back to me. And it's driving my mind crazy. I can't get the feeling out that, I am losing her forever, and not even to another man, just losing her because she is so stubborn, and refuses to even see any good. I know last night was a baby step, but it's hard.

This has been going on so long, and no affection or love for over a year now. I don't want to give in and throw in the towel, but I am afraid that at some point I will just say to heck with it all.

It's the impatient part of me creeping in. Not knowing, not being sure on anything. I still have a lot of work to do on that part of my life. And also, detaching more from the W. It seems as soon as something good happens I want it all back right away, but know that's not happening.

Weird one today she calls to ask my opinion on whether she should work Saturday. She hasn't seen the D's, only dinner the other night, for 6 days. So she wanted to know what I thought is she worked Saturday and dropped girls off at her moms. I said, that we need to take care ourselves first, the work is a clinical for her schooling required for it, if she doesn't do it she fails. So I just said that girls will be there, but we need to make sure we are in good shape. I did tell her I had to replace the fan motor on my air conditioner, she said she had a rough day, I said I understand. She then tells me a story.

The woman she works with, is having some serious legal stuff with her son. He was in jail because and ex accused of some pretty bad stuff, and he might lose his kids. And that our situation isn't as bad as it seems. That her stitch was way worse, and we should be thankful. I just validated, said that was awful and I couldn't imagine doing that, or going through it. She said well I thought I would tell you that to show there are worse stories out there. Very weird to me. I really don't know what to make of it.

But she did call me, and ask me stuff and it felt good for that. Just a weird thing to say. And I am not going to read her mind to try and figure what she meant, but doesn't make it easy to process for me. Just a weird nugget.

Is it wrong or right to keep giving her help when she asks for it. I know we are supposed to be nice, but she keeps asking for my opinion, then always says, I don't want you, I left you. At some point should I just tell her to quit asking me my opinion, because if it really meant something she would working on us, instead of asking to see other people, or not interested in us anymore? I don't know just a thought!!

You can be nice, and have a positive attitude around her. But I would think detaching to where she misses you, and all you have to offer, ultimately helps you more in the long run. If she knows she can turn to you for advice or turn to you in general when she needs something, then there is really no motivation for her to work on your R if she already gets what she needs from you. Just food for thought....

Kind of what I was thinking. But then, not answering her calls would be the only way to do that too. And if that is what is needed that is fine too. Just find it odd that she trusts my advice at all. But doesn't want to be with me.

I cannot say or even presume to know what your W is thinking. However, asking for your opinion does not have to mean she values your opinion. It may just be a way for her to keep you around. Throwing you bread crumbs so to speak. I am not trying to discourage you or take away from positive steps you may be making. Just offering some thoughts.

Hi roid,

If she doesn't want to be with you, she doesn't get the perks, either.

Let her have a taste of what life will be like when you're not there to lean on.

You don't have to be cold about it, just respond with kindly yet firmly to her requests.

Learn how to say "NO" in a hundred, non-confrontational ways!

Validate her without answering!

"Wow, that must be difficult to deal with." (And don't offer to fix it for her.)
"I"m sorry to hear you're struggling with that."
"I agree, this transition is hard."

And--- (Try and avoid saying "YOU", just refer to the situation.)
"Sorry, that won't work with my schedule".
"What is the plan to handle that?" (On her own.)
"Unfortunately, I won't be available to help with that."

I think she will respect you more, and it will help with your detaching as well.
The more you do for her, the more she will take you for granted.

How would you feel about someone you've treated poorly who continues to do things to please and help you? Would you respect them? Or would you use this to your advantage?

You sound like a nice guy, and that's great.
But maybe take a little tough-love stance on this one.

She wanted this life. Let her have it!

---GGG

Now my other question. We are very nice people both of us, and part of my problem is, that I made some serious mistakes to her, others have said it wasn't that bad, but it was to her and her moral compass. So if I all of a sudden I quit being nice, isn't that going to say to her, that I don't care, and I did mean to treat her like that in the first place.

Not saying she didn't do anything, but I think it's a fine line right now between the what is right and what is wrong. I will try the new method though of just validating and saying no nicely. Like it says doing the same thing over and over without results is insanity!!!

Originally Posted By: Roid76

So if I all of a sudden I quit being nice, isn't that going to say to her, that I don't care, and I did mean to treat her like that in the first place.

It's not being mean to her. It's giving her space, showing her that you are comfortable moving forward without her and standing up for yourself that will help you earn her respect.

I just read am older post on fear from a DB'er through Thortons thread. It rings so true to where I am at today. And I think why I am trying to understand some if the stuff my W is doing. Because I fear that she is doing all this stuff and lying and cheating and whatever else the WAW can do. However, here I am, trying to understand come up with a plan to get her back. Instead of facing me.

I have just in the last few days began really trying to dig deep and pull out my fears. The fear of not having anyone, the fear of being left behind, the fear of not being a good dad, the fear of not being good enough for a wife, and the list goes on and on. What I have found, is that it's all stuff that I carry with me from childhood on. Never letting truly go of the past, and it affecting my self esteem and self worth core.

I grew up in a terrible family for love, no hugs, no love you's, just fighting and literal fist fights and flying objects at that. And I also grew up with just women around in my life, my father was in bad mental shape as a child, and still is. The only family I had were my aunts and sisters and mom. So I grew up the protector, never wanting anything to harm them. Always trying to be there for them in whatever way I could. However because I was the only male, I never knew what it was like to be a man. I winged it until I couldn't anymore. I took all the fear and let it hide me from the real world, because I didn't want to be left behind, I wanted to be a good father to my kids, and not leane them high and dry, I wanted to never fight and carry on with my wife. All those things were happening though, and why because I was scared I was losing what I had, and couldn't face that. I wanted to just act big and bad like it didn't matter.

Well I am here to say it does matter. You can just sweep it all away, or figure it out later. It's either now or never. I'm that post, he talked about questions you ask yourself. A good one, do I really love my W, or was it nothing. Well I found the answer to that question just over the last few weeks. A women I knew started to flirt with me, and I started to flirt back a bit, fed the ego(fear if being alone), I didn't take it anymore thank god, I stopped myself and her all together. But through that I found that I felt like an idiot, I really love my W, and don't want to hurt her, or put her to the side for the sake of another. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but I have a new found respect for her I hadn't had for a long time.

Now it's like I am starting over on the detach phase and the no contact phase. I have all these feelings that are not fear based, but based solely on love. I have been so ashamed of those events since they happened. But I can't change them just move forward and not let it happen again. I hope I can face all the fears I have and find ways to truly out them in the past. And also that I can truly let my WAW, get her space and leave her be.

It does seem that there is some softening lately, but with the feelings I have, expectations are on the rise. That is the next big thing to tackle. Every time an expectation pops up in my head, I have to squash it. Does it get easier I hope seeing more of me, and what I have to face for me will help. They are however very tough to deal with. Like at dinner the other night, I just wanted to say why are you doing this really, you keep saying you don't wHt this for the kids, you don't want this for our families, but I kept my mouth shut. I need to fight the expectations with everything I have. And then focus back on me.

I am trying my best to do this, but it is just as scary to look at yourself and everything that you can carry as baggage. I hope to drop those off in lost luggage, and never pick them back up. Sorry for the length, just had some stuff to get rid of.

It's late, Roid, but I wanted to thank you for this insightful post.

-----GGG

Really, really good post, Roid. That self reflection is so important.

I can relate to a lot of what you wrote. My dad is very much old school. Shows no emotion, no I love you's, no hugs. I became him. I actually felt scared to show emotion because it conveyed weakness.

Fear was my #1 weakness during this whole thing. TBH, I was terrified. I felt unworthy, I felt I was going to be alone forever, I felt I could never find anyone as good as WAW, I felt I would never experience the feelings of love like I had for WAW.

My mom, God bless her, told me something. You've probably seen me post this before but it really helped me. Make your faith bigger than your fear. Say it and then allow it to sink in. After I kept repeating it, it started to take hold in me. Easy? No. But I kept saying it. In the car, walking into my office, at home, lying in bed, taking a shower etc.

Your sitch is far from over. Keep working on it, keep coming here and telling your story. And don't forget to comfort others, there's healing in helping other people.

I have a few more things, tired of hiding. I still text her on occasion, and still talk about us. Always wanting to try and change her mind. I still want to fix her, because she feels bad, lost weight, has rheumatoid arthritis constant battle. I either have to start following a single advice stream or none.

I have friends that have their own opinions, very different ones at that. And then all the advice from here. It's so hard to know what's right or wrong right now. I have one good friend that just went through this the other way with his fianc�. He left, finally come back after 6 months, but he had to get her back. He says a lot if what we talk here, but adds to still talk to her when she calls, text her back be nice all of that. However he also says to back down, have patients. That's the key is patients.

I have never had it and keep trying to gain it. That came from my upbringing I think, not wanting to be patient but get over the whole thing right now, not wait for the fights to be over. I will try to post my thoughts here first before I text, or want to call, or whatever. Maybe you guys can slap me with a 2x4 and get me off the ledge.

I am getting to the point to where I want to change for me and my kids. I know supposed to be for me, but the kids are important also. I was close to 300 lbs only a few months ago. As if this week I am down to 255. Why I got so big, fear. Let me explain. I have a heart issue since I was young, and didn't want to face it, instead, I swept it away and just said I can do it later, or it can get fixed later. Now I don't want that anymore. I want to be here for a while so I can enjoy life, but also to see my kids get old, married, grand kids and the like. Will I make that who knows, but it's up to me to be in control of me. At first that was a problem for the wife, but now it's not her problem it's mine.

That thinking will hopefully help me get over trying to fix her. She tried to tell me to take care of myself, but I didn't listen to her had to come from me. I had a lot of goals with her, but those will have to go on hold for a while until I can figure out finances and such. Hard to let those go, but for yhe time bring I have to. First thing, I wanted to live outside town, but now will have to move into the city and closer to work. It's so hard to stomach that, but has to done for me and the kids. Later maybe I can figure out how to get further out or somewhere I really want to be.

Once again sorry, just a lot of reflection over the past few days. I even got a bit upset tonight at my daughter and started to scream, real eye opener. Actually made me cry, that I lost it for a minute and all she did was something tiny, won't make tomorrow or her life bad. Need to remember that my anger is because of emotions and fear, not the real me.

Thanks for the comments on the first post. Thornton, I will be praying for your stich, and that you can keep up the progress. And I appreciate all your posts and honesty has helped me to reflect even more. Everyone on here is very helpful, and understanding. Very appreciated!!

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Once again sorry, just a lot of reflection over the past few days. I even got a bit upset tonight at my daughter and started to scream, real eye opener. Actually made me cry, that I lost it for a minute and all she did was something tiny, won't make tomorrow or her life bad. Need to remember that my anger is because of emotions and fear, not the real me.

This was one of my MAIN motivators for S with my W. The tension in the house was too thick and both of us were beginning to lose patients with the kids over the smallest things. I too broke down in tears when I snapped at my then 4 year old over something small and he just looked at me with the saddest eyes and cried. I felt like complete garbage. I knew at that point the environment was too toxic and I had to remove myself from it. Things are much more relaxed now.

At least you also recognized the effect your situation is having on your kids. It is awful.

Yeah I felt terrible about it. And it happens to where my emotions get the best of me. Could be just me, or could the kids or coworkers or something. I usually try to apologize right after and realize why I did it, and plan for the future one. To be honest I think it has been not going to therapist for over a month now. I need to find a way to get back on track with that, and work on the things I am finding out about me even more. I have put in an email to my old therapist for the contact on the new one I can see at the same place. Thanks for posting Pilot, I felt like such a horrible dad, but I think others go through the same thing.

Having a hard time today. Wanting to text wife just asking if she really wants out of the marriage or not? Last night while talking to girls she was giggling under her breathe, obviously somebody there with her, and it upset me that she wasn't 100% attentive to the girls during call. Please tell me I'm being stupid, and need to just be patient and play along!!

And I have to drop girls off with her tonight. I want to say something so bad. I will do my best to just let it all go, and be attentive to her and see and hear what I can.

DONT say a word about it.

"Act as if"... you are happy, content, doing well, and excited about your life.

Keep repeating it doesn't matter what she does, only what I do. I can only change me!!

For whatever reason it hurts more than normal this morning. I am looking forward to a few days for just me, I have had D's for 6 days in a row now, I love them to death, but it's hard to take care of them alone sometimes. Might be part of it, all the energy it takes to make sure they are good, and I'm spent. I am so wire out today, have a slipped disc in my back and really bugging me last few weeks, was good for a long time, must have irritated somehow.

This weekend with no kids I plan on cleaning my house to the nails. Hopefully have a nice home to look forward to coming home to. Maybe even pack away done stuff of the W's that still laying about. Have to find the energy to do it, but I know I can.

It's like feelings of wanting to give up and give in. But I can't let those take over my emotions. I want to be the person she wants in her life, but have to realize I have to just show her that and let her make up her mind. Just like the advice thing, what good is that doing me, to continue to help her, only showing that I can be a friend and that's it? I so bad want to just tell her I can't help you anymore with advice unless it deals specifically with kids. If you need advice in a personal level, find somebody else to fill that void, you left me, and don't want me, why should I help you?

I have managed to list every fear I think that I have right now and am at number 25 and stuck. Holy cow, actually seeing it on paper is really getting me worked up. It's like I am facing something new for the first time, and scared to death if what it will do or how it will act.

Has gotten me off if thinking about her so much though. That's a good thing, even though fears tied to her are there, the bigger ones I've carried for years are the toughest to get at.

I think I might burn up all my posts in one day. I am going to post my fears here later in hopes of trying to get then out and in the open to work on. I have contact info for new therapist and will try to set something up hopefully soon.

I was so unhappy the last 1.5 to 2 years of my M. And to think of how unhappy I was, must have been excruciatingly unhappy for the W. I need to be happy.

And this may se a bit odd, being as I am pushing 40, but I have a fan crush on Lorde, the newer musician from New Zealand. I love her voice, the lyrics don't mean a lot to me, but her voice is awesome, and the music she has outside if lyrics is very catchy. I have one if her songs stuck in my this morning.

Something else eating at me a bit. I've never fought for anything for myself in life before. Now I just want to fight for this the whole way. Yes I want to give up, it's the easy way, the way I've always took, but now there is no way I will ever give up, but it's hard to try and wrap my mind around letting go to keep fighting. It's like I am fighting myself to just keep reaching out to her, and getting shot down, time and again. The failure doesn't bother me right now so much as the pain inside. How to handle knowing you just threw away the best thing you have ever had, because you were not doing things the right way. Yes she had a part, but I can't fail again. Life is to short to want something so badly but it be just out if reach. So now to stand back and just watch it get further and further away. My guts are dancing a jig right now!!!

On a good note I'm inching ever so closer the under 250 lb club. If I get under that, I think I might cry with joy, never thinking it was possible to do again, with my bad attitude and foul disposition. I was so excited to see the scale number get that much closer. I was a lean and mean 225 in college, and getting even close to that again, would be a great coup for me, and especially since I thought I was just going to be a fatty for life.

Okay only one other thing, I never listen to others. Be it my W, or my family or whatever. I want to listen now. And that means to the people on here to just let it go, and don't contact or get to giving with stuff and keep it about the kids. Get out and live and have some fun for me. The fears thing from this morning really got me going. I am going to take my list home and try and define some if them for me. But if okay, I would like to list what I can on here, just to see if any suggestions for ways to conquer them.

dropped of my D's nothing really to speak of said hi, told her a couple of things on the girls, and said good to see you. was upbeat and happy. Actually i feel better after making no mistakes for once.

I think plays a role in my thinking as well. I sit at a desk all day, and there are some slow times, let's the mind wander often. Part of why I posted so many times yesterday.

Since I'm not getting much response here I have been reading a lot of other stich's on here. Thorn, your stich has been an eye opener to me. The smilarties are eerie to say the least. As far as how we acted both before during and after R.

I to use to to say well I will just leave then, all the time threaten to walk out. I finally got a handle on it, but the damage was done like you said. I am also a control freak, from my dad leaving and his family leaving us. I want to be in control of everything, I gave up money control, I wasn't very good at it anyway, but trying to control my W, by being mean, saying things I didn't really mean at all, and trying to make her feel like I felt on the inside. And yes it was the fear of losing her and not wanting to that literally drive me mad.

I am deep down a very nice, caring and giving person, but I hid it away to try not to get hurt by it all. Always thinking it was a time bomb that could go off anytime. Not me, but her wanting to leave me. I never felt good enough to deserve such a good woman. I didn't think I could keep up with everything she wanted, and needed in the M, and in the end those fears controlled me to no end.

Facing these are the hardest thing to do period. Her leaving was a by product of all those fears culminating in a person I wasn't proud of, and worse a person I was despising very much. It wasn't even somuch I was mad at her as much as it was at me for being that guy. I don't know if I will ever get her back, she has to deal with her things about me and herself first anyway. Am I scared of losing her still yes, but it's waning when I focus in all the stuff I swore not to do, but was to scared to stop myself from doing it.

I think I might finally understand why and how I got here. Now to try and fix those issues within me. I wrote down a lot if stuff on oaoer last night about my deepest fears and what they meant to me, and why they are there. I only got to number 8 of 25 in about an hour and a half of writing, my hand starting to hurt. Funny how I can type all day now, but writing is a workout.

Thorn, I hope you see this and take the real thanks that I have for being willing and open to sharing what you were feeling and what you did. It's really helping me to understand more and more. And thanks to all those peeps that posted on his threads. The advice and stories were just as good and helpful as if I were right there talking to you. I have a vivid imagination and I try to picture the people as I read something, always been that way with books, huge James Patterson fan. Thanks again for all openness!!

The fear of not being good enough at so many things is so ridiculous. I mean I really thought I was never good enough, for W, for kids, for friends, and so much more. I write down last night that try to see what you are good at, and build from it.

I noticed how good a dad I really was, and how much they really do love me. Even though I messed up a bit, even in M I was good at things, doing my part if housework, doing things to keep W stress free on occasion. I can take that and move it forward.

Now I can't lie, the detach thing is still hard right now, I notice I am checking phone some days more often than not to see if she texts. I'm trying to break that habit, keep phone on silent and such. I do feel a lot better today about trying to just go dark as far as I can for a while. I pushed so much junk down her throat early, and even recently, if I don't try something new I will lose the battle before it even starts. I did have feelings last night of betrayal and loneliness because she left. But I am trying to deal with those one at a time as they come.

I keep thinking that it's all over anyway, but that if I don't at least try what's the point of ever have done it in the first place. Even if it's over at least I'll know I can maybe be better for the next one. That was a fear too, not finding another love to replace this one, but I write down that no matter what it's not replacing anything, I had a great time in that R, but can make a new one just as good and better if I want too. Just have to work on that desire!!

Just a thought. If you do not think you are good enough for your W, why would she think you are good enough for her?

Self confidence is a huge thing with women. Work on this as a 180.

My problem is trying figure out a way to 180 that, with limited contact. I am trying to be more positive, answer her questions help when I can, but I think I need to try and leave her alone, at least for the time being. When I drop off girls, I can try to be more positive and I really try to listen when she does talk, but a true 180 for that is just not come to me yet!!

I guess I need to show the side of me I used to be confident, outgoing, and fun. But trying to do that in a ten minute span. Maybe just smile, take control of situations when they come up. Just be confident, even though right now I feel like I want to curl up into a ball and hide, which is fine just not in front of her.

You absolutely have to leave her alone. Every time you do not, you dig your hole a little deeper. People have said here to pretend she is the nosey neighbor and treat her accordingly. Be polite, but do not seek her out, and do not let her linger, or conversations linger. Changing the way you interact with her can be hard, but it is a must if you want to see any positive results.

I know I am going to do my absolute best to just get out and live this weekend, and try to keep my fingers off the phone, except to call my girls. I want her back, but I am learning that I want it to be on here terms and not mine if at all. I can't control her, even though I continually try. It's either I become a man or stay a mouse at this point. Thanks for the advice pilot. Happy flying lol!!!

I agree with Pilot. It's really hard to do, but changing that dynamic is essential. Part of the issue is that it's habit, and easy to do the things that don't work for us because that's what we've always done, so being aware and having some forethought might be helpful here, too.

I've actually started practicing conversations, actions, and ways of responding before I'll need them. It doesn't always work, and sometimes I get blindsided, but having some ideas ahead of time can be really helpful.

Would it be helpful to put an elastic band around your phone, or put a post-it on it, or something like that as a reminder of what you want to do and who you want to be, and to keep you from doing anything except calling your girls?

I thought about stuff like that, but I don't think it will work. I think I need to keep thinking about what I really want and I've been trying visualize how to get there. Seeing things I want in my mind and what it takes to get it. The last couple of days it has happened to help keep me grounded. Yesterday was such a tough day, I actually think I had a panic attack or at least a small one. But I used what I learned in therapy to talk myself done a bit, and started to see what I really wanted. Thanks for the help Meghan, funny thing is that's my W's name just spelled different!!! I have been keeping an eye on your thread as well!! Hope you can find a peaceful place for yourself, and it does help to post on others and see what they are doing or not doing!!

I think knowing what you want and picturing it are far better strategies in the long run, although they take a good bit of self-control and effort. The more we can do that, the easier it is to act in constructive ways all the time, I suspect, because it will just be a part of us rather than something we really have to think about. I'm working on that too, but it's one of those things that takes time, and it feels oh so easy to slip.

It seems to me that there are just a lot of tough days, period. Right now, I think it's probably pretty normal for the tough days outweigh the normal-ish ones. I certainly understand the panic, too - sometimes things just get seriously overwhelming. If you're panicking, one thing that's worked for me that I read about somewhere is to do a few pushups to get some of the energy out and work off the fight or flight response. Might be worth a try too, if things are bad.

Originally Posted By: Roid76

I thought about stuff like that, but I don't think it will work. I think I need to keep thinking about what I really want and I've been trying visualize how to get there. Seeing things I want in my mind and what it takes to get it. The last couple of days it has happened to help keep me grounded. Yesterday was such a tough day, I actually think I had a panic attack or at least a small one. But I used what I learned in therapy to talk myself done a bit, and started to see what I really wanted. Thanks for the help Meghan, funny thing is that's my W's name just spelled different!!! I have been keeping an eye on your thread as well!! Hope you can find a peaceful place for yourself, and it does help to post on others and see what they are doing or not doing!!

Roid I feel you. I have been the one that doesn't know how to cater to myself besides everyone else for my whole marriage. Find that one thing you wanted to do in the beginning of your R that you never did (and we all have that)and do it. I just signed up for a Spartan Beast marathon and I have never done it. My W was never really supported on me in losing weight and it wasn't really up to her but when we got together I was in good health and after 8 years of being together I just let it all go. NC is actually really good to have for both of you , but more so for you. You won't know what your W is doing but you are going to start not caring honestly. I wanted to txt my W last night more than a drug addict in a N.A. meeting but I stopped the urge. The more you show her that you are taking care of yourself and less about her or the R then your W is going to either do one of 2 things. Be relieved and enjoy the silence or she is going to start thinking of why you aren't running after her. I would always run to my wife. I would be crying in the middle of the night and saying I want her back and I will change and never had her focus on her self. And the only time it made a difference is when I stopped chasing her. Just food for thought but hey I am proud of you. This is tough.

I went out and got some good Chinese take out tonight for dinner!! Haven't had it for quite a while. And to be honest was tough I used to get for wife on occasion same place her in town. But I said to heck with it got out and did it!! Now to find something to do for Tomorrow, was thinking if finding someone to go to watch the new Apes movie. The first one was surprisingly good!!

Funny story about that had a debate with a co worker today. We walk a couple of miles everyday at lunch. He said isn't it really the third Apes movie. And I was like if you want to count Marky Marks version sure, but that was horrible. Then found out he had most of the movies on video. Felt somewhat bad finding out he was a closet fan I think. He is a very quiet guy a little older than me, but super nice guy!! He once said he doesn't say much, so it's usually me talking. Funny to open up on a cult type film following!!!

I know why I am a little down for though. Finally hit me what was said the other day. She said she was happy to be alone, didn't feel scared at all. And this is why we dont talk to our WAS's. Because are mental state is not prepared to handle the massive negative talk that comes from them. Even if it was true or not true, doesnt matter, we can't process the negativity only to mean that they are offically done. But I haven't said I was done yet. I might have moments of wanting to give up, but dont we all.

Roid, I think it's important to not read too much into what's said (although, seriously, this is like the pot calling the kettle black, coming from the queen of reading too much into stuff). There can be so much negativity that it sends you spiraling, and then you're in a place where it's hard to keep afloat and do what needs to be done.

I've gotten a lot of mixed messages from my H., and it's been a real struggle to try to not believe either the good or the bad, so I get where you're coming from. Stay strong, though - what she said might be true in terms of what she's experiencing now, but should could also be bluffing, or trying to convince herself, or exaggerating to show off, or any number of other things. You just can't know right now, which is frustrating but gives you some space to breathe in.

Right, it just takes me some time to learn. That is why I would spiral down before. trying to control that now. Remember the rule, believe none of what they say and half of what they do.

I get the taking time to learn. I still struggle with it every day. I find it's so much easier to remind someone else about it than to actually successfully do it myself.

I actually just had to have a friend talk me down from something my H. said today. I got a long list of why I shouldn't worry or even think about what he said right now because I didn't have anywhere close to all the information.

Its good to have friends that can help. True friends will give good advice, and try to steer you in the right direction. PMA is very hard to do right now,but every little bit of that can help.

Its been almost a week of not inititating any contact with her. And Tuesday was the last time she called or texted me. I am kind of freaking out today being the weekend and all. I am planning on a trip to the movies tonight, and hopefully some time out tomorrow before the kids come back tomorrow evening.

Freaking out over her moving on, and her not caring at all about us. The feelings are a lot more controllable though. Not nearly has bad as they have been. I think that more time will be good to get a handle on all of this. I am such a super control freak over this, and these feelings are good to have and try to recognize that I just cant do it anymore like I have in the past. I need to learn that I can only look at me, and not try to fix or control others or actions outside my sphere.

Something else that is kind of helping me out. On one post I heard focus on her flaws, to help get rid of the good. It's not so much the flaws I'm using, but the things that I think were not right. We have 2 dogs, she wanted them just as much as me, but wouldn't take care of them. Stuff that I know goes against what I really want out of my life.

This also helps me to look at me and what I did that I didn't like and maybe even her. Identify the problems for me. Is it hard not to think about her yes, but I have to help myself out. I'm not scared to be here anymore. I want to feel some joy.

In order to say I gave it everything I had. Is that no contact, changing the way do things, getting over my fears, all the things I don't like about me. It just hit like a ton of bricks, that I didn't give it everything I had. I can safely say, I don't remember the last time I did give anything everything I had. What's the point if living a life half azz, when you will just regret everything you did? On my death bed, I want to look back and say everything I had I gave it to those I loved the most me included. I want to look in my daughters eyes and say your dad loves you and no matter what don't regret anything change your ways if you have to. Don't let fear rule your life, face it and move on!! Actually made me upset to just type that out. It's so hard to think giving it your all is letting go, but I know it's right.

If I had only found some of this stuff so long ago! Instead I thought just counseling was going to be enough. Nope, I was wrong, I think that is why counseling doesn't work for most. You have to put in some effort as well, and lord knows I was still being selfish and conceited the whole time. I just want a new chance at life. One that I can say, I was proud of, and one that is really truly what I want, not some farce or lie.

Sitting alone at home is no way to go. I have tried numerous friends and everybody is busy. I think I am going alone to the Drive In and watch some movies. Might not be the best GAL, but I can't set here any longer!!!

W texted to see what time I could get the girls. She was texting she has a lot of homework to do, she doesn't have a lot of food in the house for them. And was running out of ways to keep them happy. I text back, when do you need me to pick them up, she said whenever, so I just text back 5. She then says I'll have to make do with that. I said OK.

I mean it's not my job to do the kids just because she is having problems. And it makes me want to just go get my girls so they are not miserable either. I even thought about saying it's not my fault you have all of this stuff aren't they important to you to, you were complaining about not seeing them, and now you just want rid of them.

Do not say anything negative. Your W is fully aware she is struggling, and she will be fully aware that your helping with the kids makes her life better. Leave it at that. You have a chance to make a good statement or a negative one. Make sure you leave a positive impression.

Originally Posted By: Roid76

Something else that is kind of helping me out. On one post I heard focus on her flaws, to help get rid of the good. It's not so much the flaws I'm using, but the things that I think were not right. We have 2 dogs, she wanted them just as much as me, but wouldn't take care of them. Stuff that I know goes against what I really want out of my life.

This also helps me to look at me and what I did that I didn't like and maybe even her. Identify the problems for me. Is it hard not to think about her yes, but I have to help myself out. I'm not scared to be here anymore. I want to feel some joy.

A lot of people in my life have been encouraging me to do the same, particularly when I'm blaming myself, or being blamed by H. Yes, I contributed to this, and there were a lot of things that I could have done a whole lot better. I have a much clearer read on those things right now, which means I can deal with them

But the truth is that there were two of us in the relationship, and there were a lot of things wrong on both ends and, consequently, in the marriage as well. Many of the issues fed on each other. I'm starting to identify more clearly what those things are, often by talking it out with friends and family who know about the situation, and it really is a two way street. Right now I'm having near-daily realisations about the marriage, but also about who I am and who I want to be.

I know it's just hard to set and do nothing. Different note, I did go to a Drive In last night and watch Dawn of the planet of the Apes and Transformers, double feature, both were pretty good movies. It was super late getting home though, I literally feel like a bum today!!! But very worth seeing both.

Another little bit, I was watching something on tv this morning and the show changed to a marital show. They did a exercise where they put one spouse on the slab in a morgue, accidental death, tell them what you would say at this point. I just lost it at that point. I was cleaning my house and wasn't paying too much attention until that happened. Holy cow your emotions are tough to struggle with.

Today she texted me something about not being able to pick up girls until late this week at drop off. For the first time in a long time I didn't just reach and text something back. In fact I think I am just going to ignore it, the last thing I said to her was she you Wednesday. And I have a schedule and know where the girls are going to be, and her crying emoticon that was added just doesn't make me want to deal with her stuff at the moment. If you are crying and sad because you can't see the girls, come and work things out to make it better, instead of trying to vilify me, and put all the pity on yourself.

Lately she has been very emotional about not seeing them enough, but wants me to pick them up early yesterday, and she is going out of town for three days this weekend, and I can't help the fact she chooses to be this way. I can just ignore the emotional stuff, and act like everything is rosy, which for me it is getting there every day. I am actually proud of myself for trying to stand for me and the kiddos.

So I thought about that, and texted her back okay let me know on time to meet. Nothing else, was that the wrong thing to do? It was about the kids, and not about her. A couple of weeks ago I would have reacted differently to crying emoticon, but not even a mention of it. I think right thing to do and then leave it alone, especially since she never texted back, mind you it was a few hours after her initial contact, but okay!!

So she texted today about D's dance class, she working won't be able to make it. Trying to keep dim, one word answers, but I ended with have a good day, she texted back will try, going to try and work and work on homework too!! I said hope it goes well for you. That was it. Is that really going against the no contact rule, or is it okay to try and keep at least a little bit of something there?

Journal

Having what I think are mini panic attacks lately. I am on anti depressants, but feel good only on a day to day basis. I just need to find something to click my mind away from the stich. I have been trying a few things, putting up a stop sign in my mind, that has helped a bit, read it somewhere on here in a thread. Also trying to focus on the good in my life, kids, job, weight lose, better health lately. I think it's just finally everything on the inside is coming to a head.

Had a convo with my mother the other day, and she said she thought I would divorce her before she would me, because I would just get tired of waiting. I think that part of the panic stuff lately. Thinking about that, and how that may have been the old me, want it now or nothing, no patients at all. Not what I want to be though. So actually giving me thoughts of just not giving up but continuing on. Only have to think of me and not the W in this case. Will get better just take time.

The W called for the girls, and has to be on speaker for the little D. She said I love you and miss you to her, and I almost lost it. Felt like a knife tearing through my heart and my guys are turning inside out. I am never going to get over this, it's been so long already, and I can't shake it totally. I have to keep trying, I went outside to cry so the D's wouldn't see, but it's hard to face them. The fact that they are hurting and I can tell, is killing me. Who wants this for there kids? Why do we do these things to hurt each other? Ugh!!!

Keep strong Roid. I know it's hard. God, some days I feel quite good then, BAM, it hits me like it has you. While I can't offer you advice all I can say is that I'm thinking of you my friend!

bashy is right. It is hard, but really focus on detaching. The stop sign in your head is a good start. If your W's voice hurts when you hear it right now, go into the other room. Or at the very least, focus on something else and do not listen.

I have all these feelings of disgust for what I did, my part of the M disaster, and just want to make it right. I have an overwhelming desire to fix what I did. Do others have that as well? I guess it comes from realizing what you did wrong and why, the self discovery phase. It's hard to because you want your OS to see the same things, but know they can't and may never get there. It's not easy, and maybe even not fixable, but I can actually see feel and touch the problems, and think to myself I can fix these, they are totally fixable.

Is that the wrong form of thinking? Should I tell myself they are not fixable, and will never be able to be done right? Hard stuff indeed

Frustrating, isn't it? I think a lot of people on here feel that exact same way and would love nothing more to show OS the new you. I know I do. We can only hope that by consistently demonstrating our changes, that they'll eventually be noticed. And if not? Well then we've become a better person regardless. Nothing wrong with that!

Yeah I understand that one. I don't even care about the changes right now, just the fact that the problems almost seem easy to fix, or at least more so than a while ago. I am very much into the married for life thing, but I know my mistakes were part of this as well, that makes it worse to know I caused the M breakup(my half), but then I look at myself and say why, and can kind if get a decent answer now. Just keep praying for one day of clarity from the W as well.

Planning a Bday party for my oldest D this weekend. Bday next weekend, but they are with W, so I figured this weekend just as good. Only to be a kid that gets 2 Bday parties how cool would that have been? At least that's what I'm telling myself to mitigate the pain. But I am sure she will love it none the less. Having some very weird July weather here in the Midwest though. It was 55 degrees this morning, almost cold. Going to be that way all week, I told D's I would take them swimming this weekend, but kinda chilly for that!! We will see though!!

A very boring day at work, but I must say that I haven't been focusing so much on the stich as normal. Maybe I will kept from the hospital and not certified crazy after all. I can at least hope anyway!!!

Tarheel,

I read you stich and feel for you. Hopefully you can continue to work the good stuff.

I dropped girls off didn't say much, just hi, and have fun with the girls. About an hour ago she texted that she was becoming the family doctor, and her Gpa wasn't doing very well, don't know how much time he has left. I waited until just a bit ago and sent one back saying, I hate to hear that he is a good man, I hope you can enjoy what time he has left. She sent one back saying, Ya :-( , and that's a sad face.

The reason I say this, her Gpa and I were super close, I lost both of mine at a young age, and he and I were both old country boys. We clicked from the get go. I have a lot of respect for that man, and to think I could miss anything if something happened is hurting something bad. I so wanted to text, what's wrong, what's going on, but I didn't. Puts a year in my eye and an ache in my belly. Always seems like something happens during these separations, be it sick family, or something bad. I wish him well though!!

Dangit I so bad want to text Ugh!!!!! Dang fog, dang stupid choices, Ugh!!!!

I havent done anything and wont. I will add him into my prayers, hoping the best for him and her family.

I haven't initiated any contact for about 2 weeks now. No relationship talk for that long either. I am getting to the point, that I don't think we can be saved. All of this stuff may be for naught, but it's getting to where I can forgive myself and accept what happened, and that it doesn't matter about her so much. The divorce word doesn't make me shiver anymore, and I am even thinking that I will have to be the one to do it.

I am not saying I give up or won't just continue on my journey. However, I am getting to a point that I do want to move on with my life, and don't really know if I want her in it or not anymore. I love her, and always will, but is it the right kind of love? Can I be happy with her? I just want to be happy, and my D's to have a good life. I am getting more comfortable that I can give them that from me alone. It's so hard to want to keep fighting, but yet move on. It will get easier, but trying to figure out those answers are going to be a bit consuming.

W is out of town this weekend, makes it easy not to contact. I feel a bit better about everything, it's like the overwhelming feeling of guilt, and shame is going away. I am finally forgiving myself and wanting my life back. Yes I want her back, but can see that I want the version that is good not this one. I am turning a corner, and can really see why things are the way they are. And yes I want her to do the same, but know deep down that ain't happening anytime soon. So I might has well be happy right? I haven't felt this good in a while, just want to know happiness and what life is all about. Hoping to get there, thanks for all the help on here and suggestions.

Roid76,

Tarheel is right. All of our changes we work on are for the better. The W may not notice, but other people do notice. I have had people comment on my PMA and how i listen and help them. Validation from someone is better than validation by none. We continue our marathon knowing that it will end. What is at the finish is the question. It may take awhile.

I have friends who were divorced for a few years and are now happy and back together. To quote a Chinese parable, "Who knows what is good or bad". We need to allow what is and continue on with our journey.

Journal

Another day down, getting easier by the day to focus on me and not her. I took the D's to my folks and had a small bday party for oldest. Went fishing, took kids for a ride on the ATV, and enjoyed some peaceful country time. I really felt good today, and found myself actually focusing on the things I was doing. Then all if a sudden, oh yeah I'm missing something, but like I said getting better. Hopefully will continue to enjoy my D's and life in general.

Roid - It sounds like you've had a lovely day! I'm glad things are getting better, and that you're finding it easier. I'm happy you're finding room for forgiveness, too - this gives me some hope that I might also get there one day. Well done!

Everybody is different on how they handle it all. It will get better as long as you want it to. And yes I have finally started to forgive myself, the hardest part, forgiving W will be easier if we ever got there, only because I have found some peace for me.

A question though. I got a bday gift from the FIL AND MIL, it was a fair amount if money, and I feel a bit bad for taking it. Is it okay to take it, should I not accept, am I over thinking it all. Just seems a bit odd, in the card, they said I could come down whenever I want and should just do it. Obviously I won't be doing that, but just has a weird vibe. Thoughts?

Another decent day. Picked up my kids, talked a bit about just life stuff nothing important. She did say she had a terrible float trip weekend. Got left behind with people she didn't know, and said there was a german shepherd there, I have 2 of them, and it made her sad. Which is funny, because she wanted the dogs more than me, but hasn't seen them since she left not even once in almost 4 months. How bad can you miss something, and not even want to see them, astounds me. But I was like oh well, didn't even acknowledge that it was painful other than oh yeah!! Getting easier by the day, I keep thinking and saying no matter what I can do it, I can find a new girl, find a new life, just enjoy what I have.

I actually took my kids to a waterpark yesterday. D5 and D1, if you have never done it alone, I suggest try it, they had a blast and I couldn't have had more fun myself. So glad I can finally say, I can take care of them all alone no matter what. Very good feeling indeed!!!

"Keep stuff straight be a good mom maybe be a good wife someday." The W was really struggling today got this text from her. To me this makes it hard to beleive that she wants anything to do with me at all. She forgot a homework assignment and something else, she was texting how bad life was, and how bad she was, and how she couldn't do anything right. I asked what everything consisted of when she texted she wasn't good at anything, that was the the response I got, and yes I deleted a couple of curse words.

I have no interest in being the one she just vents to when she is upset, because nothing is working out right for her. And yes it's hard not to want to help, hence the slip of asking what she meant. I just validated the rest, and kept it short. The pity party is getting old, and I hope she finds someone else to tell all her woes to, I am done completely. I don't even think it's worth validating all the stuff that she comes up with. How are you supposed to keep the road home lit, when it's full of potholes and wrecked cars? Oh well, I will be better, and I guess I have to accept that she will be this way for a very long time.

We were at my D's dance practice tonight along with her mom. It was weird to be there, first time being around her mom in a while, but she was so nice. All the pity, does it get better. Can I look forward to at least not having to even get the messages at some point? For all that read this, I hope your stich is going great, if not a happy ending together at least a happy ending apart!!

Havent said anything to W since then. I was doing so well, and then that day came along and seemed to ruin everything. Got me thinking about possible OM, or whatever the worst could be. I dont have the D's for a few days and want to get put and do some stuff for me for a change. May go out tomorrow night for a while, and try to find some people to hang out with. Really missing her since that convo the other day. So hard to just drop it all and love from a far. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day.

I really want something good in life. There is no way, that is going to be the W. Those days are gone and over. I am getting to the point of thinking a D is the way to go for everything to be good. I don't think I am in a place to go out and get something else though either. At some point though there has to be a break. Yes this has been going on a short time for the separation, but our issues and me not being happy for almost 2 years.

I am getting happier, but I can't seem to shake the feelings for her. I don't want to know if she is seeing OM, or if she isn't, but every once in a while I see something or hear something, and I don't want to or mean to, but it's just everyday life things. That fact is tearing me up inside. I cannot deal with that, and do not want to. Lately I have even been thinking if ways to get back, but then I wake myself up and say why? That's not doing me or my kids any good. I am at a lose at what to do about it. I can't just ask or confront or spy, even if I could I couldn't handle it.

After all of this yes I want a D, and yes it will hurt and I will regret what I did for a while, but really you have got to be able to move on. I don't know though, my thoughts and emotions are all over the place. It's been four months since she moved out and I still have days of horrible sadness. There are days of good, but it still overwhelms me from time to time.

I still haven't sold my house and the reminders associated with it are too much. However I am scared to move on. That next step is a mother. Would I take her back tomorrow yes, but I am not naive either. Just seems like 2 different paths are ahead, and I am setting at the fork, not knowing where to go. I also miss my girls something terrible too, and it's really just missing them more than her. That's gets me thinking that she isn't that important to me.

I so wish there was a way to be able to figure this all out, but there is not. I just have to make tough choices, but I am setting in the fork in the fetal position like a baby. I want out, no more fear, no more uncertainty, no more no more.

Yesterday was just a crummy day. Today I feel better and more focused. She sent some pics of our D's late Saturday night, I think that brought the emotions if not being with them to light even more. And I let it get the best of me on Sunday, didn't help I am fighting some viral thing the kids have too, and had a killer headache all day. I feel like not giving up today, so true on day to day changes.

No matter how hard we try, giving up is not as easy as it sounds. I don't want to give up, last night I cried after typing that note, and said you don't want to give up, you want to be selfish, and just take care of yourself. That's what got you in this mess to begin with. A person needs all of this during these times, no matter what happens, you can cry, you can yell, whatever it takes to make the days pass, but please try to remember, that I'm the end it's all worth it.

I need to find somebody that's going to tell me to quit being a pushover. Quit giving into to the urges to bring up the old R and quit saying anything that is not positive. I love my W and D's dearly, and want the best chance I can at getting us back together. Even though the end game is for us to be better, it's still about our families. 2 x 4's and then some welcome.

I texted her on Sunday and said I miss the girls, she offered to let me see them but would have been super late, so I said probably not best. I caved on a day last week when she was going a bit crazy and said that I can't help you if you don't help yourself! She was trying to figure out how to order checks for bank account, I get on and look for her it says to call, she said she tried before and didn't get that, so I said help yourself first. That upset her, but she kept texting about other stuff that was wrong too. So the tough love that day wasn't bad, but since them not much. I don't think I want to keep tough thing going too much, but maybe a little, it either sealed my fate or she woke up a bit.

She talked with me on phone about what my oldest D was doing in the lake, swimming jumping from dock, I told her I was so proud of her, and she said so was I, after that she sent me pics, and I screwed up again and said wish I was there. She said I know, and then said they were all sick with this viral stuff, and that she was almost to barfing from heat exhaustion and sore throat and pain. I said that has to just be terrible I hope you feel better quick. And she said thanks me too. Trying to keep it all about her, but I did miss my D's very much, shouldn't have said wish I was there with them, oh well in the past.

Seems weird that there is more communication, but I just don't believe it's going to help us out, more to get along for the kids, and prepare for later, but it is nice to at least get a bit. I think part of problem to is so back and forth, on Thursday when she picked up girls and left she texted was stuck in traffic looks like a wreck, texted back and forth about it, and then just nothing until Saturday and the girls. We have a day of communication and then days in between. It's like a roller coaster, uphill real slow and then quickly down, wait for it uphill slow and quick down. I love coasters, but would much rather be enjoying them at the park as opposed to my emotions.

Picked up the kids tonight didn't say much just hi, nice to see you. Asked if she had a good weekend with the girls. She said yes and told me they were both a bit under the weather. I wanted to talk more and text after, but I didn't. Just stomached everything and went on with my D's.

I do need a bit of advice? Tomorrow is D's last dance class and we will both be watching her. I am trying to back off as much as I can, should I not even set with her, and do my own thing? It is a good chance to just shoot the breeze though, maybe set with and talk about her day or what not? Thoughts?

I think I've found out about some things lately. It's all the dueling thoughts, what's right what's wrong? In theory that's great, buts it not that simple. As a man with low self esteem, I look to others for answers, I can't do that though. I have to find my own answers, it doesn't matter what others think. This came from my boss asking me if I filed for D or not yet? I said no, I am not done yet! He looked puzzled, been divorced twice himself, made me really think. I didn't say much after that. He wouldn't understand.

That's the problem, it's accepted to just give up. That's part of my issue. The pattern to give up is there. Everytime I think about giving up that's why, it's not that I want to, it's easy, everybody would think I was crazy for keeping up the battle. Is this why there are so many divorces today? Everybody just wants to give up, also got me thinking about my episode with OW.

It was totally wrong to tell my woes and problems with another female, and then equally wrong for her to tell me she thought I was perfect for her and we would be great together. Not only was I telling her my issues she was telling me her issues. It's not about whether or not you are right with someone, a shoulder to cry on is okay, but a true connection is what you need. I had that at one point with W, it's not there anymore, but possibly could be. I am actually upset with the OW and myself for falling into the trap.

Also got me thinking about other things. I have such a hard time with respect of women as is, how can I respect anyone now? I am trying to learn how to respect others more. It's not an easy task, but I am trying. The respect being gone is because I didn't respect myself at all. Every word they was even close to something I was doing wrong are at me, every time I felt angry or overwhelmed I saw only a thing to make feel like me, not my W. I see only something meant for my pleasure, sexual or otherwise. It wasn't always like that, just got worse the poorer I saw myself. At one point in time, I treated the W like a queen. That's what I really want, a queen for my meager kingdom.

I just want to have a life that's happy. A family that is solid, and myself happy doing what I want to do. I am trying, but finding it hard to keep it up. I do not want to give up and won't, until she tells me it's over for good. I just don't know if I can be the man she wants, and make all the changes needed for me let alone her. I will have to find that strength inside me. Sorry for the length, just needed to blow some steam. I am going to try and enjoy my girls for the next few days. Everyone be safe, and think positive.

I think a good thing to work on is your self esteem. People talk about having a low self esteem like it's a life sentence. Take this opportunity to look into that. You deserve that and I can tell you that there is absolutely nothing sexier, NOTHING, than a confident man. Find out what you can do in that area. Do it for you because you deserve to no longer have poor self esteem.

About the trap with the ow... You did it and now it's over. You were clearly looking for something there and got sucked in. Don't wallow in it. Take that discovery and turn it into a lesson. What do you need? Give that to yourself. You want to be happy and I believe that's unalienable but YOU have to provide it for yourself. Live for you and she will see that. Do it for real though. Not half way.

Had a decent text convo with W on Monday, she texted about the show the bachelorette. We used to watch it together, even though I hated it. There was a connection to our area on there, and she asked if I knew about it. No R talk just back and forth on that, and she was a bit under the weather too. I practiced some validation.

Last night we went D's dance practice to watch. It was parent observation night. Once again no R talk, but just light convo. Fairly good couple of nights. Fighting wanting to text and ask her how she is doing today. But I will just keep it to myself and leave her alone.

Fear of the unknown, it has a grip so hard on me right now. I feel like I gave up 10 years of my life, I will not get it back, I will have to move forward. The only thing helping is the fact that I know what I did, I know I can fix myself. I just still don't want to lose the W.

I know I was a complete ahole for the last few years. I was so unhappy with how everything was turning, but I could have had control over it. It was my decision to act like that, my choices my consequences. Doesn't change how I feel about wife, or marriage overall. All the good I have done recently for me, as opened up a the me I want to be, I still fall into a trap now and then, but after years of this it's going to take more than a few months to fix. With the me I want though, also comes desire to have W back even more. How can you draw a line and use those feelings to fight for it, but drop the rope as well?

I still have constant thoughts to a point of contacting, one thing has changed though. I don't want to contact to talk about M, I just want to talk. Talk about life, stories, things happening. That's what I loved about us, being able to just talk about the little things and listen. Maybe it's a connection I'm getting back bony bringing our issues up so much. It's just very hard to fight back the feelings of want.

Any advice on things to say when we drop off kids? I usually say something like good to see you, have a good week, something like that! Is that wrong, should I just say nothing. I don't mean it as pursuing, but I could see it that way. Just looking for tips. I am so bad with women, and trying to talk, but I am trying to find ways to overcome that.

You're on the right track, Roid. You're just impatient.

Keep building on those positive interactions but don't force anything. Keep on being friendly and cordial, no R talk.

I remember my goal was to make it safe for WAW to talk to me. I kept being friendly but not over the top. Very slowly these conversations evolved into deeper and more meaningful things. Eventually we started talking about "us" without any pressure.

It takes time, allow her to feel safe with you. Baby steps.

I know it's just hard to stay away with the kids, and be quiet. Trying to find the delicate balance. Fighting wanting to text her now. But won't do it.

Impatient is absolutely correct, thank you for the heads up.

Patience is a mother!!! I so bad want to text her today, tell her how I am feeling. Tell her what I am thinking. I can do this, but boy is it tough. A major 180 for me is my patience. I must continue for me, it actually feels good sometimes to not get so worked up over stuff, and think it has to be done right now.

Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt!

Patience was my nemesis! It was so hard to do for me as well!

Hang in there. Each day that you are patient is a step in the right direction.

Thanks I know it's right, just hard as hades!!

I'm giving the possible OM too much power. It doesn't matter what he says does or acts upon. I still love my wife and it matters what I do and say. I can control me, and make myself the perfect everything, or at least as close as I can get. I don't want to upset her, or make us both miserable. I want a clean path for the rest of my life. Whatever I do is for me, and maybe my kids, if I have a partner then they will be included. I think it's finally hitting me that no matter what I will be okay. I can do whatever I want, and I want to make things good, no matter with her or not.

This comes from seeing something on FB inadvertently. Just a comment of "why the sad face pretty girl" was on her sisters FB page, I was actually looking at pics of my kids on there. I saw that and started to freak, them I calmed myself and said who cares. I am still in this for the long haul, good or bad. I either want a happy wife or happy life. And I can do that through me. And I unfollowed her sister as well. Why even out myself in that scenario, I know it was stupid, I just miss my kids, but that's okay too. When I see them, makes it even that much better. A little backslide, but I kept it to myself and will continue too. Thanks for listening!!

Had a good weekend. Did a lot to house, paint, new lights, other small stuff. Went out and watched a flick, Guardians of the Galaxy, very good film lots of laughs and action, can't ask for much more.

I started to do some more today, but was asked to get kids early. Not a problem though I missed them. I am having a hard time with something else though. The W is only 28, but was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis at age 18. She is really suffering from it right now. The stress, lack of sleep, taking no care of herself is taking it's toll. Today she was limping, knees feeling bad, and other joints. My problem is I care so much, that it's hard to see and not just go nuts.

I want to help, I want to soothe her. Mind you today, I just asked if she was ok, since limping so poorly, she said no, and one day it just may paralyze her, that cut like a knife. Just sad that she is so down and just doesn't care. I am stuck in feeling so bad mode for what happened. No person should suffer like this, and she is just being stubborn. Maybe the OM is giving her comfort, I don't know, and don't care. I just can't keep up the being happy, when I am not at all with myself.

It has even got me to thinking that maybe we shouldn't be together again. I mean, is it ever going to change with her disease, and her attitude associated with it. That was part of my problem in our M, her anger in the pain, and taking it out in me. If that never changes I cannot deal with it forever. I have read a thread on her that hit home though. He put down things he loved about his wife, mind you they were not very concise, but I have been thinking the same things. My W, at one point, made me a better person, I loved listening to her stories from work, made me proud to have such a beauty at my side, great mother and everything involved in that. There are other things, but those came to me, and it made the feelings even more terrible.

I just want to love her, and let her go, but it's very hard right now. Yes it's best for her to figure out for herself, but doesn't mean it's easy. And yes I feel better about me more often than not since I have come to agree to the very limited contact. I have been trying to practice my validation with everyone, from her to work associates to friends. It does help bring compassion and respect for those back into my life, sorely lacking in previous life.

All over the place I know, just was very sad to see her that way. Not a thing I can do for it, so I have to either accept it, or let it eat me away. I will do my best to accept and move forward. Any advice would be appreciated.

I started a new thread today as well getting close I'm sure to locked!!