Quick vent:
Divorce busting Svcks!!!
Now for the tantrum:
I HATE it. My H comes over to the house like everything is fine. Umm, No it's not. He plays with the kids. Actually compliments my hair (Yes, I was looking good) (Second compliment in 9 months) and then offers to cook supper and actually follows through. He even followed me around the house trying to talk with me for awhile.
Fixes stuff around the house: Unclogged a toilet, added salt to the water softener, shoveled paths in the driveway for the snow/water to run off.
Sat down for a family supper and his gratitude prayer was that he was thankful for a family meal.
I wanted to scream. You could have this every night like we used to. He kept telling me that he wanted me to contact him for household stuff that needs attention and our rental properties that need attention, that he wants me to tell him stuff. Umm, he tells me nothing. Sure, I'll tell you everything even though you forgot to mention that you were sleeping with someone else for months. But, sure, come on over to our home and be the hero a couple nights a week.
Phew! I promise I'm done now. You'll be glad to know that I was nothing but smiles and politeness. It just goes against instinct to treat someone who is lying to you and screwing you over with kindness....but I did. I keep reminding myself that not sharing this life with us is his loss. I can go days without hearing from him and even though it's hurtful, I have accepted it as my new normal. I hate looking at the body of the man I loved for so long and having him be a monster to me now. He's coming over tomorrow, too. I will be a lovely left behind wife.
If things have to be this way, I just wish I never had to see him again. Now, back to reality.
Well you are really hating him, its one of the stages....
The same way that you have expectations, they dont happen the way you want them so he is a monster.... So far I dont see how he is a monster but I see that you are hurt, he seem to be moving on because he is accepting the situation and you are not and for as long as you dont accept that this is the way he is now, you are not gonna be able to move on and accept yourself and do things for you...
Basically all the time he is around you are looking at his actions and judging him, is he beating you? Is he setting the house on fire? No right? Well then its not a physical threat for you...emotionally maybe but you and only you can choose how this affects you.
When the romans had circus they got slaves and their choice was to throw them to the lions, what do the slaves could do? Be panic or fight and survive and gain one day of life, you know which one was their mantra? ONE DAY AT A TIME because they had no idea about tomorrow....
You are not in the same situation, you have choices, you can set yourself in a rage status or do the opposite, set yourself free, live without fear. He doesnt want to live with you now, ok just accept that, and move on, seat down and write down here what boundaries you will like to set to protect yourself from getting hurt emotionally.
For example I will go out in a sunny day, run or bike or do a strong exercise and liberate endorphins, then sit down in a coffee place and write down the boundaries I believe will be good for me and for the kids, why I tell you to go for a run first? Because if you liberate endorphins you will be able to think in a less emotional state and a more calm way.
Now a few examples of boundaries:
Dont talk about past R, dont pursuit and if you dont feel like seating at the same table just dont... Again you need to really seat down and analize if you will choose this in a rational way or a fear way, a rational way will be, I dont mind you seat at the table because besides that we are not together you are responsable enough to accept your responsability as a father and you are taking care of not hurting the kids, a fear way will ask him not to seat on the table because that hurts your feelings, even if your kids are not guilty of your problems with him they will suffer with this decission, can they recover from this pain? Yes they can, is it necessary for them this pain? Maybe it is maybe not, thats your call but again dont take decissions just yet, its only been a month since he moved out so you are still very emotional and uncapable of thinking very rationally.
My advice if I am allowed to give you one it will be, accept your H as he is right now, dont judge him and dont try to change him, let him do whatever he wants but set boundaries, if you accept him and all he is doing without judging him you are giving yourself the best gift possible...freedom and hapiness, its not gonna come in a week but certainly it will ending coming, and you know what? If you dont accept his actions and you try to change him and control what he does and manipulate him....one day you will look back and you will say to yourself: Damm I push him out of the house because when I took the vows I didnt read the real meaning which is: for good or bad... Now you are leaving the bad, accept it or ask him for D because by pushing him to come back with you what you are really telling him is:
I dont love you unconditionally, I love you only when you are with me and you do things the way I WAS TEACHED THEY ARE RIGHT...
He can leave you now totally and tell you in a year or so, I left you because you forced me to stay with you, u didnt underestand what I needed at that point...
But if you accept him, he will think: hmmm she is not like the other women around me, she doesnt complain or whine about what I am doing, she accepts me how I am,.... If you were him which one of the 2 situations will you choose??
The good or the bad... Now you are living*
Sorry I misspelled that hehehe
Besides all that I told you, you are doing everything just fine, this is the way that things are supossed to be, leave the moment, in a few months you will appreciatte all this
Oh, Blues, I hear you. I really do.
Especially this part:
It just goes against instinct to treat someone who is lying to you and screwing you over with kindness....but I did.
Uh, yeah. That. I am still trying to figure out how to treat my H with kindness, yet not be his friend. It seems that when I am kind to him, he smells weakness.
Back to your H (since this is your thread, after all).
Did you ever figure out some ground rules for him coming to the house? At first I wanted my H to come over, but now I am at the point where I don't even want him coming to the door. When we exchange kids, I come outside. It's a lot easier for me.
What is your boundary with that? Does he just come over whenever he wants? If he is wanting to see the kids, why do you stay there when he is there?
Compared to some of your recent posts this sounds like a pretty fog less moment for him. How did your d respond to him being there and the family dinner?
Ps... I do get your frustration and anger. Completely agree with the boundaries. If his interest in spending time with kids continues can you set a schedule?
Blues this is an aside not a hijack. .. just wanted to tell you that my mom offered to move down here to help me out- and then took it back. The old me would have been furious. The new improved me is chalking it up as another thing to add to the therapy list.
... back to blues thread.
ye21-Thanks for taking the time and posting to my thread. Every once in a while I need a good old fashioned kicking and screaming tantrum and I know I can't do it out loud at home. I am learning what a process detachment is. N/c is so much easier sometimes, but not a reality with kids.
M-Ground rules are that he's not here when I'm not and we've made a schedule. I feel your pain with your sitch right now. Why is is so hard to take the high road sometimes?
Julie-Ugh, not sure why your mom bailed on you...I hope you find some peace with that relationship. My D did fine with H yesterday. She tells me she amuses him by answering questions, but doesn't reach out to him (breaks my heart)
While I'm glad that she is civil to her dad, it allows him to live in la la land and not see the true hurt of his kids.
I don't really hate Divorce busting tactics!! Actually, I totally get them and wish I were better. And if it weren't for this site, I wouldn't have recognized my H MLC and I would have been convinced he was just a crazy jerk. (Jury still out
)
Sometimes I just can't shake the feeling that when I'm in a nice smiley demeanor towards him, it sends the message that his choices are ok. They're not ok to me or the kids or the family or friends. We are not ok with this. But I know accusing, yelling, confronting, getting angry, etc just drives him further away. So, in a sense, I feel like I am tolerating his crap and that makes me feel icky.
I know it's just a mindset. I just need to rearrange my thinking. I'm an awesome GALer. Social calendar is booked. But, I'm still not at the point when I'm doing something fun where I don't wish I could share the experience with my (old) H. Oh what patience this process takes.
And: I am thankful that my H paid me a compliment. That is a positive. And I am thankful he spent some time with the kids. Him making supper was nice, too. I am glad that he offers some maintenance support with the house.
Question: Any thoughts/theories why he wants me to involve him in caring for the home/rentals/etc so much? He always tells me to call/text him if we need anything and when he gets to the house and things have been left broken he approaches me with disbelief/frustration that I didn't tell him.
I feel like he wants to help out to settle his feelings of guilt. As long as he fixes stuff by day, he can do whatever he wants guilt free by night. Is this just total pessimism?
Hi BG,
Dinner and compliments are awesome indeed! Is your husband's LL acts of service? I don't know if I fully agree that it is guilt. It may help your h knowing that he is helping you, and I do understand the pessimism. Regardless of what he has said or done, he does care deep down inside what happens to you. And the reality is he can really do whatever he wants no matter what time of the time of day, right? Can't net him and make him stay. My h does nothing so that would insinuate he has no guilt. My kids have asked him to hook up a tv for 3 weeks now and it is still in a box. Openly discusses that he "quit his responsibilities." Yet, he breaks down daily and says he is in a bad place. (note to self-stop hijacking! I'm sorry:)
I say let him do it. Just view it as a nicety with not expectations attached. Actually, I say enjoy the help.
This is total mind reading. Why does it matter why he is asking for help? Why not just respond to his requests for help and just see what happens?
GB-I am totally ok with the hijacking-I love to compare notes. And you're right, I'm sure deep down, he does care.
Unbidden-Um, yea. I'm totally mindreading. I like the direction to just see what happens.
Thanks!
Blues,
I can get how frustrating this must be for you in watching the paint dry at MLC Museum!
Question: Any thoughts/theories why he wants me to involve him in caring for the home/rentals/etc so much? He always tells me to call/text him if we need anything and when he gets to the house and things have been left broken he approaches me with disbelief/frustration that I didn't tell him.
I feel like he wants to help out to settle his feelings of guilt. As long as he fixes stuff by day, he can do whatever he wants guilt free by night. Is this just total pessimism?I do not think it has to do with guilt feelings per se. It is more to do with non-pressure from you. The biggest thing for MLCer is feeling pressure and they need to get the f*ck outta there. Your H sees you as the lighthouse and a source of comfort to you. Those feelings are buried deep inside him. The MLCer likes to have this feeling that you're "still there" which is why we often look up and look in your direction just to make sure you're still around.
A better approach would be to treat him as a housemate. Back when I was in college, I shared a townhouse with 3 to 4 other housemates. They all came and went in all sorts of hours. I didn't worry about them. I lived my life. When we were all together on the very rare occasion on a Sunday, we'd all sit down and chat with each other. Does this example help a bit, Blues, in the detachment part for you?
If you would remember from Raine's threads, she went on with her life and did not apply pressure on to her H. Sure, she slipped up from time to time. But now look at her! Very nice reconciliation and piecing now.
Wonka's housemate story is a nice analogy:)
(Hanging my head) Yeees. It makes sense. And I know this. It's just hard to practice. Because when he's nice, it feels like old H that I loved. So, if I'm going to entertain his help and see where it goes and keep my PMA and GAL and blah blah, I have to find a new level of detachment so that I don't feel so sad and heartbroken when he doesn't profess his love to me
Question: Any thoughts/theories why he wants me to involve him in caring for the home/rentals/etc so much? He always tells me to call/text him if we need anything and when he gets to the house and things have been left broken he approaches me with disbelief/frustration that I didn't tell him.
I am not sure what your H's motivation is, but I figured I should share what my H told me regarding his offers to help around the house. My H does the same thing. He has directly told me that he knows that I am the primary caregiver and have full responsibility for the house. He said that it makes him feel better to be able to help me out with things that he can actually help with and fix considering our sitch (i.e. not the pain that he continues to cause with his A). So there is some level of guilt, at least with my H.
I have chosen to not ask my H for help. I don't call him and ask. However, I also don't stop him from fixing something if he is already at the house. I make sure to thank him if he does do something.
When my H does things around the house, I try to view him as a handyman that I have hired for help (without having to pay). It helps to keep me detached
BG,
I just caught up on your entire thread. Yeesh. We do have similarities. My h suffers from clinical depression and anxiety and has been on meds for 6 years. However, he is still extremely depressed, anxious, angry, and behaving like a teenager. Meeting new friends under the age of 26 on Snapchat and Twitter. Says he is empty, broken, always loved me more than him, I was never committed (as he left), and all will be well if someone just loved him. Darn! I hijacked again. Actually, I was just comparing notes:)
I think it is great that your h offers to do anything. Seriously, my his in la la land. The only thing he is finally able to do is work and I believe he is able to compartmentalize that. I only point some of this out as the medication I believe helps them function. However, it doesn't make them address their issues. As I have been told so many times, I just have to let h walk his own journey. As a matter of fact, h even said that once too. He just "had" to do this and didn't know why. He wants to hook up with chicks and not feel guilty-that's why.
Seriously, I'm jealous that you guys have hs that help out. I think that is awesome. Anyway, I just wanted to say you are doing really well and enjoy the pleasantries.
GB- If it makes you feel any better, my H completely checked out for over a year. He literally did nothing around the house - did not do the lawn, change a light bulb, nothing. Forget out cooking or cleaning.
A few months after my H moved out (and going on two years of him being MIA), we were doing something as a family and then I went out with the kids for the evening. H was supposed to head out separately that night as well but evidentially he stuck around the house for bit. When I came home, the entire house was cleaned. I actually thought to myself, did someone break in and clean instead of steal everything? He made the kids beds, but away laundry. In 15 years, he never did that. I was shocked.
There is still hope for your H!
Blues - Sorry to hijack!
Please don't worry about hijacking! I love comparing notes. It helps me put things in perspective.
3-my H did the same thing all summer-completely checked out on all the things he did around the house and activities with the kids. I taught our S how to catch a football last summer and spent a week at the county fair in the camper with the kids as they were showing all their projects while he was always saying he had to be here or there. Well, I know what he was up to now. It makes me ill. I can identify how you handle the household as it's exactly what I do. I never ask or call my H for anything. But, if he's here I thank him for the things he does.
GB-You're right-I should be thankful that he is showing interest in the kids once again and he offers to help. Certainly, things could be worse (they were not so long ago)
Ok, I'm going to write too much about nothing right now to get it off my chest
Tonight H was in a great mood once again. (Still bothers me deep down) He helped S with homework and cleaned the garage floor that was full of sand/mud from the winter. We played a family game together and had a lot of fun. He even said so. He showed me an app on his phone for music recognition and asked if I'd ever heard of it. Um, yea you showed it to me a few months ago and then demonstrated it for me. I just said "Yes, I've heard of it" and then he downloaded it on my phone and demonstrated it for me and I should have earned an Oscar for my acting like I was wowed by what he already showed me before.
We have a large dog that occasionally gets stiff and limps. H pulled up a supplement online that he thinks we should get...he already showed me that a few months ago, too. This memory loss stuff is for real.
One thing made me very sad tonight. We have a TV series that we watched all summer even through the toughest times together and the final season just came out on netflix. No matter if H had to leave and stay in a hotel for a week to get space (stay with girlfriend) or we had an argument, we always watched every episode together and now I asked him if he wants to watch those some time or if I should without him and he said "Go ahead, I don't have much time".
I know it sounds weird, but that just seemed like the final nail in the coffin for me.
He was in a good mood, you had a good time as a family, and your takeaway is that the R is doomed because he didn't want to watch your show together? Really.
Blues - The TV show thing actually doesn't sound that weird to me. My H asked me to start watching a show with him after BD. It was a series that I never would have watched prior to BD, even if he wanted me to. It just didn't seem like my kind of thing. As it turns out, I actually really like it. Since H moved out, he has told me several times that I should just watch it. I didn't even ask him to watch it. It makes me sad, too!
Still, I don't think it means that all hope is gone. I try to stay positive about it.
I am mad at myself for being so unreasonable lately. The detachment was awesome when he wasn't around. I guess it just seems like every last thread of something we had is breaking. It's not the tv show, it's the loss of one more thing we had together.
Since that last post, I've been on these boards and feel that security blanket again. I feel a little better now. I make great strides in moving forward and then something small will throw me off. And then I have to pout and temper tantrum to myself before I let it go and move forward again. This process is exhausting.
Thanks to all you folks out there for the encouragement and occasional, "Really"
I totally had it coming
You're doing great, blues. Really
Thanks
Hey Blues,
This is tough stuff! Keep it up. Yup, the MLCer's mind is like swiss cheese.
Remember: housemates, housemates, housemates
When people use the term "MLC fog" it's no exaggeration.
S6 birthday party was yesterday. Family was here and H came. He acted odd and would alternate from being part of the conversations to staring blankly into space. His memory is getting worse. It seems like he has a distorted sense of time.
After the party was over, several people made comments to me about H. My parents who read and are familiar with DB, said is seemed like he was in a "fog".
I talked to D15 in her room last night and asked her how she felt about the day. Everything was good except for her dad. He forgot to do a couple of things he promised her within minutes of committing to them and she said he seemed like he was out of it. I actually think it gave her peace to see him look sick instead of look all happy because now she can see he is not well instead of thinking he's rejecting her.
He is sick every time I see him. Back ache, neck ache, stomach ache, headache, sinus issues, cough etc. He is always complaining of being sick.
H cried yesterday and today several times. Some things he said: He hates himself. He's lost everything. He wants to stay married to me but doesn't know how to get there. When he looks at me, he is flooded by feelings of hurt. He says he's a bad father.
He is a mess and can't be reached. He is floundering.
Is he getting help? Is he on any medications?
No medications. He talks about getting help, but never acts on it.
I am powerless to help him. I just need to stay out of his way.
Oh, bg! Your H sounds so familiar! Mine has also been sick PERPETUALLY since he left. Everything from gall stones to the flu. And he's also an emotional wreck when I see him.
Honestly, I think they are working their way through whatever it is. They clearly know the problem is inside, but can't/won't do anything about it (probably don't even know how to begin to get help).
It's painful to watch, isn't it?
artsy-It is terrible to see. You're right, I think I do see change and movement, it's just a further spiral down.
H keeps blaming me for everything, so I think I'm going to go dimmer on him. I generally don't call/text and take care of all kid/household issues myself.
He keeps saying I "took all the friends and family" and that nobody calls him. No one cares.
I thought people only spiraled like this with addictions. My idea of depression was people being sad or sleeping a lot. I didn't realize that depression causes people to spiral to the point of losing everything. I was very naive.
My H is not well and I want to remove myself from this for awhile. I wish I could go dark and complete n/c for awhile, but that is not reality with kids. I've never felt such a strong urge to distance myself from him before.
So sorry to hear this. My prayers ago you and your family.
Blues,
He keeps saying I "took all the friends and family" and that nobody calls him. No one cares.He doesn't realize that HE cut them off himself! Nothing you can do about this except let him walk his own journey by his lonesome self and work his chit out. Patience. Oh and more PATIENCE.
Blue I really sympathise, its so hard seeing someone you care deeply about destroy everything good in their lives and be powerless to help them - that's the thing though, we are completely powerless and the only person who can turn it around it them.
My H is an addict (in recovery) so I know just how painful it is to have to stand back and watch, the only thing you have control over is yourself and I think your doing the right thing distancing yourself from him so that he doesn't take you down with him.
Often it takes a person to hit rock bottom to actually find the inner strength to do something about their problems, I hope this happens for him and he find a way out of the hole he's in.
As you often here, they have their journey and often it is downward.
It is painful.
But out of your control.
Wonka-Yup, HE'S done the damage and left relationships. The amount of blame that he puts on me is beyond comprehension and reason.
Upwards- Sorry to hear you are going through the same thing.
Labug! Haven't seen you around in a while! Out of my control. I have let him go.
I vented to my parents yesterday about my sitch. Only to find out that my mom saw H this morning and approached him! She meant to reach out to him out of love, but used examples of things that I told her and breached my trust. She meant well, but now H is blaming and monstering....AGAIN.
I feel like this R is beyond repair.
Upwards- Sorry to hear you are going through the same thing.
He's moved past the blaming me for everything & pointing the finger stage thankfully, its still a very difficult situation though. Don't let his anger and resentments impact on you, they're HIS problem and his anger is more than likely at himself but he'll be projecting that at you. Keep your distance if you can, he'll only hurt you if your around him.
As you often here, they have their journey and often it is downward.
This started out as "you often hear here..." and I deleted the wrong hear.
You're on the right track.
Sorry about the situation with h and your mother. Again that was something beyond your control. You do need your family's support. At this point in time he is not able to see your family offering him help in a positive way. That has to go in the let it go column.
Hi BG,
Just catching up and I'm sorry your h is in such a state. I think it's great that you keep encouraging communication. Just a fyi on meds, my h has been on ADs and anti anixety meds for 6 years. About 3 months ago they upped his anixety meds to the max dosage and switched to experimental treatment resistant depression meds. The meds simply help him function. He laughs with his "new" friends but cut his family and old friends off as he can paint the picture of himself as he likes-they don't know anything other than what he tells them. When the "mask" slips, he will say that he hates himself and that he's stupid, lonely, and every night is a terrible. However, he will quickly retract that and say he's on the path to happiness too. H drinks a great deal now which is a bad combo for his meds. While he can seem "normal", he never looks happy and doesn't laugh with the kids.
I totally hijacked and I'm sorry:(. I point this out because the meds usually just help them function in some aspects of life. But the issues are still there and are not going away unless they ever address them. They are still a mess. I think still hope "external" factors will finally "fix" them and make them happy. We know that isn't true. Hang in there and you are doing the right thing by staying out of his way. Keep your focus on you and the kids.
Sending you postive thoughts....
BG, have you re-read HeartsBlessings stages of MLC recently? I just read it and your description of his behavior at the party sounded familiar to stage description. Sometimes it helps me to see H behavior as textbook rather than personal. Helps me with detaching.
LL
Thanks everyone. I had a good nights sleep and have decided that I am going to go dark with the exception of communicating about the kids.
H has very little contact with them, so going dark should be pretty easy. Yes, I am so blessed to have a lot of support. Gosh I am so glad to have this forum and friends/family. We had a young man in our town recently die from an accident at home and it reminded me that I am lucky to have 2 healthy kids.
I do pretty well overall, but days like yesterday still knock me down. The spewing and anger was becoming a thing of the past...until the beast was poked.
Yes, I've read HB's stages of MLC and they confuse me a bit. I think H rotates between replay/anger/depression. I am approaching the one year mark from the bombdrop and am a little disappointed in myself for not having been better at DB. I feel like I could be in a much more peaceful place if I'd focused more on me. I never realized how much I was really trying to control outcomes. Dropping the rope and letting H go was hard. Still is. I miss the old him and wonder if he'll ever be back.
I am approaching the one year mark from the bombdrop and am a little disappointed in myself for not having been better at DB. I feel like I could be in a much more peaceful place if I'd focused more on me. I never realized how much I was really trying to control outcomes.
Well trying to control your recovery its not gonna work either, this is a process and we experience different status trough it, whatever you had done is past and you cant change it, looking backwards doesnt help, thats WHO YOU WERE, and its important that you accept that because that made you who you are today...
When we talk about what we did "wrong" we are judging ourselves and it works for nothing... It was necessary to behave that way in order to move forward and grow spiritualy...thats all you have to see...
Its good to do a fearless and moral inventory of ourselves, I encorage you to do to google 4th step AA and write down all the resentments you have, complete the 4th step and see what are your fears....
When I did mine, do you know which one was the most repeated pattern??
Fear of abandonment...and here I am with a WAW... That doesnt tell me she abandoned me...bla bla bala...its telling me to work and find out why my low self steem, why that fear of abandonment and how to overcome that...as simple as that
Untill we dont reach a spiritual recovery we cant move forward...
12 steps programs insist terribly that the problem its not alcohol, money sex, love or drugs...yes because there are program for love addicted as well .. What they keep repeating you is that there is a deeper problem behind addictions....and its always a spiritual one....
Yes, fear of abandonment and fear of being alone-Bingo.
I made peace with my H yesterday. I called him and asked for a truce. Tried my best to convey my feelings and then a quick update about the kids. It was a really nice talk overall. H tried to twist and turn my comments, but I steered them back. I am now going as dark as possible. I feel better about it now that we've smoothed over the sitch with my mom and I put the ball in his court as far as updates with the kids. HE can call/text/email if he wants to know the daily updates with our family.
He actually expects me to do this. In the past he sighs and sounds annoyed if I called him about the kids, but now tries to blame me for him not being in the loop because I never call him and tell him anything. Shrug. I told him HE left so he can call for any updates that I'd be happy to give him.
I feel so much better today. He said he's miserable and unhappy.
I went to supper club with friends last Friday night. It's tough to be the 'single' one with a group of couples. I kind of feel like a 3rd wheel sometimes. My H made a comment that he didn't know about it and he would have liked to go. What?? He wants to be invited to things....so he can just ignore me the whole time? Strange.
So then I invited him to church with the kids and I last night. He declined saying that he's not ready to do those things in our town because he feels like everyone is looking at him and judging him. (We live in a town of 1000 people. Everyone knows each other or are related.)
I cooperated with his requests and now I'm ready to kick off being as dark as possible and giving him time and space to look inside himself. I hope he chooses to do that.
Sounds like a good move. I also let h come to me for day to day updates but I did text him about out of the norm things like a school play or meeting. 1 text. No nagging reminder. That way he could make the choice to attend (not) but I knew I was doing the right thing in keeping him informed about s.
BG,
Good move! Regarding kid updates I say nothing. If h wants to know I figure he will ask. And he doesn't ask about school, how they are doing, etc. he occasionally asks about S4. If your h wants to be in the loop, he will make the effort. He may be in crisis but he's a big boy:)
Regarding invited to activities, I understand if it is a holiday, kids school activity, or family gathering. It sounds like your h wants to assert his "poor me- I would have gone to THAT". Maybe so. Maybe not. That might be part of his pity party. Ugh!
I think going dark is good. I'm glad you feel better. We are here for you!!!
Oh how the kids suffer in this mess! I met a couple of girlfriends for drinks last night while H was visiting the kids. D15 texted repeatedly until I finally came home to her. She was crying and shaking and breaking down. She is worried I am going to leave like dad left. She worries when I am gone and wants me back by her side.
I'm glad H finally got to witness this but I know the pressure is too much for him right now. D15 demanded answers- "What are we doing" "When are you coming home" etc.
H cried and was sick about this (He actually vomited). This is such a mess and now my kids are developing abandonment fears. We had a very routine life before all this, so it has really rocked our world.
Only thing H would agree to was that he wanted to put our family back together and he would get help and seek counseling immediately.
H says he spends 95% of his time alone. He says he doesn't recognize himself anymore. He is stressed to the point of sickness. He is still projecting, but actually sat down and shared some inner thoughts last night.
He said he does not want a D but truly fears he will never be able to get those loving feelings back for me. He says he looks at me and the hurt floods him and he doesn't know how to change that. He admitted to being depressed and even entertained a possible MLC!!
At one point after D went to sleep, he laid on the floor and cried. He is a hot mess! He is completely lacking coping skills to solve his issues. All he does is go straight down rewritten memory lane.
I wish I could save my kids from this nightmare!!
I know you're not supposed to focus on MLC stages, but I really wish I knew what stage this is. I can't imagine the depression getting any worse.
Blues,
This is tough on everyone...especially kids when one of their parents is gone far away in the MLC mist.
You asked about the stages. Hearts Blessing has posted them under MLC Resources.
Hearts Blessing's MLC Stages
I'm off to a retreat over the weekend with a close girlfriend. I can't wait!
H had a difficult discussion with our D on Tuesday. She has lost patience and respect for him. She wrote him a list of things she needs from him. All you LBS of MLCer's will enjoy this bullet point she wrote: (In all caps) * NO MORE SAYING I DON'T KNOW *
I almost fell over when I read it.
H told kids he's coming home the end of April. According to him, this will give him at least a few counseling sessions to help him sort things out before he comes home. He wants to camp every weekend with the family and go on our annual family trip. He will also attend our yearly July 4th get together with friends at our vacation property. He will start wearing his wedding ring and going to church with us.
He admitted to me that he doesn't recognize himself and he wants to stay married but doubts if he can get his feelings for me back. He said he tried to work his issues out on his own over the last couple of months, but admitted he needed help. He said before he BD'd last June, that he "broke" and said he felt like he actually heard the sound of breaking glass...???
Even after all these commitments to the kids and conversation with me, he is spewing anger at me. I believe he is still in full replay, but feels guilt from being a poor father and shame for leaving his family.
Is this going to be a disaster? How do I live in the same home with a crazy MLCer?
Hi blues,
I don't think it is wise for him to move back in. Until he gets past the MLC it will probably be bad for you and the kids.I am dealing with a similar situation now. My wife recently suggested I move in with her and the kids as her roommate and be allowed to continue dating. She is recently coming to realize that she can't make it financially on her own. When she left she got 2 credit cards and maxed them out. She also took out a parent loan for our daughters college rather than getting our daughter a student loan. She is running around and acting like a teenage girl who just found boys. I told her that we could discuss this after the house is sold. I probably won't have the house finished until the fall and hope by then she has woken up some. I hope you will consider carefully what you and your children need right now. Don't let his decisions determine yours.
Blues,
Yep, the MLC parade will continue even after H moves back in. You can learn to live with him as a "housemate" not H. He's on his own journey and figuring out his chit.
He sees you as the lighthouse where he can come back to from time to time. You are the rock and steady force in all of this craziness. If you would, you'll find that LBS have handled a live-in MLCer....ForeverYoung, TSquared come to mind at the moment.
Again, you can look to Raine's posts for inspiration. Keep going baby...don't let H's crazymaking talks and actions throw you off course.
Enjoy your retreat with your girlfriend! Relax and take the focus off from H.
Blues
Don't know how I missed this update last week. Wow I am sure that was a lot for you to take in.
Glad you had a good retreat. It is important to take time away and just be. Did you get any insights this time?
The retreat reminded me on a deeper level that I have to worry about me. My life, my prayer, my children. H may or may not ever come out of this. It has to be his choice on his time. I get to decide how much I am willing to endure or tolerate. I feel so much better after this weekend.
H had S for the weekend and they had a good time. Friday I brought supper home before I left for my weekend and H was sick (again as usual) and slept a lot. Very distant and 'foggy'.
On Saturday I got several texts from H telling about the Legoland day him and s were having. I got pictures and updates-very thoughtful and nice. They had a great day and I am so happy for them. They both needed that. Talked to H on the phone that night and he was a motormouth sharing with me.
I got home yesterday and they were still lounging at noon. S was hungry so H asked me if I wanted to go out to eat. I said sure and we went to a good little hole in the wall food place in our town and enjoyed a really good meal. Things seemed normal! I was dressed really nicely and was very confident. We spent a lot of time together and then H went 'home' at 6pm and texted me a couple times to say goodbye and have a good night.
This was the nicest and most communicative I have seen my H in months. But, like my mom said: "Don't get your hopes up"
And I won't. I am really focusing on keeping expectations to zero.
I might mention it is kind of a big deal for H to be seen with me and the kids in our town since the announcement of our Separation. We have not been seen together in our town since January. He has actively avoided anywhere he may know someone.
Best part of the weekend? The paperwork for his counseling arrived in the mail. I have hope that he really tries to work out his chit as Wonka would say
H was late again to work and missed his class (through work) again. His new boss turned him into HR and his job is in jeopardy. I am scared, but remaining calm. How much do these MLCer's need to lose? My H used to have goals and was climbing up the ladder very quickly before all of this occured.
He says he can't sleep anymore and tosses/turns at night then gets up and drives around to calm his mind. He says his stomach is constantly upset and that "my body is failing me".
He is now angry at his boss. Yay, I'm no longer enemy #1
He complained that we never ask him to be involved in the family anymore so I invited him to church on Wednesday. He said "you know how I feel about that".
So, I think we hit all 4 areas: Body, work, wife, God.
Oh, MLC how you are killing me!!
I was wondering why H was so nice over the weekend and then pulled away and became mean. I think I might recognize this as poking his head out of the tunnel and then getting scared and running back. I could be wrong.
H had a great counseling session yesterday and says he likes his new counselor. I pray he keeps going and gets the help he needs.
We had a snowday today. Kids school was cancelled, and my work closed, too. Bonus time with the kiddo's is always welcome. I am going to book club tonight and cannot wait to have some fun with the girls. My GAL is good. My detachment is better. I am starting to see alien vs H and it helps me not to personalize his mean behavior and rejection.
Blues,
It sounds like the weekend with your GF did you a world of good! Isn't it nice to get away sometimes?
Many MLCers gravitate toward some motions to soothe themselves: doing laundry, driving around, or some such activity. Yep, the stress will to a number on their bodies. It did mine during my own MLC.
When I got into my mean phases, it was because I felt really miserable, feeling tons of pressure and couldn't stand it when Ms. Wonka was her happy self. In a way, I subconsciously pulled her down to my level to make myself better about my own miserable circumstances. It is NOT you at all. Believe me.
I am glad to see that you are feeling more and more detached. It helps with centering yourself amidst the craziness going on around you.
Enjoy your book club tonight! Me? I am going to see the
Vagina Monologues performance this weekend. FUN!
I wish I had a few more minutes in the day to keep up with all the stories I like to follow on here. Hopefully I'll get to spend some time on here this weekend.
I am DBing like crazy. Sometimes I forget that I am because I will have negative or sad thoughts, but then remember that I keep them to myself. H is seeing his counselor tomorrow. He really likes her and I hope he gets the help/medication he needs. We've spent a couple of days together recently. We rode together for an hour to our D softball game. He stopped for a quick bite to eat and I was full, but he offered me a bite of his sandwich to taste how good it was...something he always used to do. We drove along the Mississippi river for awhile after the game was done and had some nice conversation. Shared a snack and looked at pretty homes along the river.
He came over last night and we grilled out burgers and had a nice evening. He cleaned out the grill and talked about getting the camper ready for summer. We talked about the kids and shared some proud moments.
It's always tough when he leaves. I never know where he's really going and it gives me a sick feeling. The old him would have never left for a minute. He is so far gone from me that some days I think it will take a total miracle for us to R our M. I will keep on DBing. What choice do I have? I feel better having a PMA and having healthy hobbies and friends than I do following him around and feeling rejected.
Feeling stronger, more detached. Something shifted this week. Instead of feeling sad, lonely, missing H, I am starting to enjoy?? my independence and new routines with the kids. This is actually getting easier..!!
I have been taking care of our kids, household, and business and doing a pretty bang up job-empowering! Working out and GAL really help!
H is moving home next week. Says he doesn't want to work on us. He just doesn't feel that way about me. Whatever. I'll treat him like a roommate and do my thing! So funny he says this even though we spent the entire weekend together and had a blast AND he told our friends we're going to Mexico together next year?? Believe none of what they say and 50% of what they do couldn't apply more. His words are zero to me right now. Water off a ducks back
H is moving home on Saturday. I have mixed feelings about this. He came over yesterday to visit the kids and jumped right into yardwork. He helped with several projects and asked a lot about the kids and the home. I hadn't spoken to him in 4 days. He helped measure an area for the kids' pool and started planning construction for the firepit area that we've always wanted. He started it last year, then replay hit hard and he abandoned everything.
H was in good spirits and sought me out on several occasions to talk to me and we spent a lot of time talking. I just listened to him and asked some questions and smiled.
On one hand, I think moving home means he has to be part of the family, own his mistakes, blah blah.
On the other hand, I know MLC is a different breed of cat and maybe moving back would allow H to slowly phase back into the family he left.
I guess I'm just anxious and not wanting to get sucked into his rollercoaster. I have no expectations. In fact, I have been using this time apart to become more independent than ever and feel very strong right now. The sadness comes, I cry, then move forward.
Oddly enough, he has been talking to his mom and our D quite a bit lately...he was so alienated from them for so long. He seems really happy about his relationship with them.
He talks future, future, future, but is still in replay and if asked will say he "doesn't see me that way". I am so confused. I guess I just need to buckle my seatbelt for the week to come.
Hi Blues - I was actually thinking about you and wondering how things were going. It is good to see that your H is working on his relationship with his mom and your D. I have read on here several times that the WAS ends the relationship with the LBS first and then friends and family. Once they start reconnecting, they start reconnecting with friends and family and the LSB is last.
You really do sound strong. You will be in my thoughts the next couple of weeks. Just keep reminding yourself to stay off his rollercoaster! Keep us updated.
Blues,
This is almost parallel to what Raine went through with H. Wow! Positive steps. It would be good to revisit Raine's thread again to gather some ideas.
Yep, the MLCer slowly reconnects with the loved ones and you'll be the last person H will reconnect with as a part of the self-integration process. Time is on your side and just continue being patient. You are the lighthouse to H and drawing him back to you.
On one hand, I think moving home means he has to be part of the family, own his mistakes, blah blah.I am not seeing it that way, Blues.
Moving back home means he's slowly getting more and more comfortable with being around because he's learning to come to terms with the fact that his misery was INTERNAL. He's slowly coming to this realization. Not exactly a light-bulb moment. It comes in dribbles here and there.
He talks future, future, future, but is still in replay and if asked will say he "doesn't see me that way". I am so confused. I guess I just need to buckle my seatbelt for the week to come.Don't let H's words confuse you. Just watch for his actions. They are the key to his internal process. Sometimes it will be wonky from time to time. FYI...I have zero influence on this despite my wonky Wonka name!
Please be advised that the re-integration into the family will take another 12 to 18 months in the journey.
You've done so well on this crazy, wonky journey...what's a coupla more months?! Right?
Thanks 3! Yes, stay off the rollercoaster. That is actually getting much easier. I just read through all of hrm134 posts and really gained a new perspective with that. All the craziness and hairpin turns are not just my experience.
Wonka-I'm always glad to hear from you. And, yes, I expect things to be "wonky"
H was up on Monday and down yesterday. He went into work late again due to his anxiety and inability to sleep. I just told him I hope things get better for him and listened to him. I am actually getting very good at that. Listening wasn't always my best quality. This DB stuff really does benefit the LBS, too.
Blues
I feel for you. My h had not left but keeps threatening divorce. It is hard to only be roommates. I wish you luck. Good job reading threads, you are more than prepared now
Blues. You sound strong. You have been dealing with so much and I think you are in a good place to deal with new developments.
Good luck. Looking forward to seeing how things go.
I just told him I hope things get better for him and listened to him. I am actually getting very good at that. Listening wasn't always my best quality. This DB stuff really does benefit the LBS, too.
Absolutely, it does!
Update and journal:
H is home. He hasn't officially 'moved in' because we have been crazy busy all weekend but I overheard him tell the kids he is home now. There have been some interesting movements on his part.
When he came to visit the kids on Friday, I was going for an evening walk with the kids and he voluntarily came with. I didn't even ask him. Family walks have been something we have done for 15 years. Last summer these ended. His last walk was slow, detached, and distant. Not the normal talking and family time we would have. On Friday, he came with and was as normal as he gets for the state of mind he's in. He later had supper with us and followed me around the yard talking.
Saturday was prom for our daughter and the day was a whirlwind. We had so much fun. It was a real bonding time for our family. We went out with close friends while the prom kids went to dinner and dance and we had a great time. So much laughing and joking and story telling. H saw some interesting antique tables at a restaurant we were at and he came over to me so I would come look at them...something he always used to do. There was a lot of brief touches on my shoulder or back when he went by me...far from the body contortions he used to do in order to avoid me. He told several stories that were about positive events in our marriage and family. We got home and stayed up until 3:30am talking and laughing about the night. He stayed over for the first time in 3 months and slept on the couch. I covered him up with a blanket.
Today we had a great day of lounging and friends over for dinner...just like old times. We ate well and had lots of laughs. After they left, he invited me to watch a tv show we used to watch. Put the kids to bed and we went out to the kitchen and talked for about an hour. He had good body language and even sat down on the countertop to keep talking. This time the talks were more serious-like about a sports issue with our D and then even more serious-about his parents. H opened up about some internal issues he has with his mother. He talked about his guilt and feelings of inadequacy and how he felt discouraged by them and he never had the opportunity to live up to his potential. He has feelings of regret that he didn't do and accomplish more when he was younger that would have led to more things to be proud of now.
The more time we spend together, the less awkward things are. I just keep doing my own thing and giving lots of space. He has a very low tolerance for stress and noise. I am pleasantly surprised at how easy this weekend has been. I really anticipated instant anger and was ready to really 180 my reactions. I suppose I can expect the low to follow this high. I am just so thankful to be building a friendship again. He has really been following me around and talking. This is so different than how he has been the past year.
One last thing. H took off his dress shirt and put it in the laundry bin...he hasn't put his laundry in with ours since last summer.
BG,
Sounds like you had a good weekend and things are going well. Hang in there:)
Blues,
So glad you had a great weekend! Keep strong and stay off the roller coaster!! We are eagerly waiting for updates and hoping for the best!!!
H has been home for 5 days. Everything seems so normal sometimes and sometimes so different. No talks about anything of importance. If I need something done, I do it myself. H is very calm-cycling low again. Sleeping a lot-which is good. I am so glad that the anxiety and restlessness hasn't shown up again, yet. That's tough to deal with and hard to watch someone suffer with.
I've had warm meals on the table every night. The kids have been taken care of completely and the house is quiet and peaceful when he gets there. I think he was expecting to come home to chaos and arguments or questioning. Ahhh, not for this 180ing gal. He says hi when he gets home and asks how my day was. It's simple things like these that us LBS long for and appreciate when/if they actually ever happen. I am so thankful for a peaceful week so far.
He joins me in the living room and watches TV and makes small talk. He has repeated himself several times lately-good ole MLC memory loss with the fog. H has a counseling apt today-Wow! He actually made another one! I am trying to stay strong, friendly, do my own thing and smile and listen. A lot of keeping my mouth shut and lots of space.
I am doing stuff for me. I get home with the kids and we crank some tunes and get housework/homework/supper done. Then, wind down when H gets here. I really think that's better for him right now and I still get to have the fun stuff with the kiddos.
And after the last 2 years of him complaining about the house being a "disaster" since we are always on the go, he told me last night that the house looked clean. I simply said thank you
Journal:
I need to focus on the positives and baby steps that happen each day:
Yesterday H got the mail for the first time in months, complimented my food, hung out and watched tv, went to his counseling apt, talked a lot about the future, and offered to take the garbage out. He also handled a parenting situation with our son really well.
I am living with a messy, unorganized, and selfish teenager. H gets very agitated after his counseling appts. He came into my bedroom at 10:30 last night and said he was feeling anxious and antsy and was going to drive around. He ended up at a bar and got home at 2am. Was he with OW? Was he drinking and driving? What was he really up to? Who cares. Staying off the rollercoaster. I forgot how much I hated this behavior when he was gone. I am trying to shrug it off and remember that he has only been in replay for a year.
Blues,
It seems important to H that the house is fairly organized and clean. I can understand where he's coming from. For me, I thrive in a clean and organized house. If there's a mess, I get agitated. That is just how I roll.
Yesterday H got the mail for the first time in months, complimented my food, hung out and watched tv, went to his counseling apt, talked a lot about the future, and offered to take the garbage out. He also handled a parenting situation with our son really well.
I hope you gave H some WOA on how he handled your S. WOAs in the parenting department actually forge a stronger bond between the spouses. That says you've got each other's backs.
H gets very agitated after his counseling appts. He came into my bedroom at 10:30 last night and said he was feeling anxious and antsy and was going to drive around. He ended up at a bar and got home at 2am. Was he with OW? Was he drinking and driving? What was he really up to? Who cares.
This is how H copes with his anxiety. To each to their own. Not sure if he actually met up with the OW. It will take about 12 to 18 months for the MLCer to reconnect and feel settled back in the M and family home.
You're going a fabulous job here!
Yes, please do keep posting the positives because what you focus on expands. Keep going, baby!
Hang in there!! Sounds like you are doing great.
I have been avoiding making this post. H and I had a great week after he moved home. A lot of baby steps in a positive direction. Then another bomb:
OW pregnant
FML-What the hell do I do now?
You don't have to "do" anything.
Wait and watch and remember to breathe. This is his drama and you only have to be a part of it if you choose.
I am sorry that this has happened, especially for that little life.
This quote is so true.
"The amount of drama I experience in life is in direct proportion to the degree to which I hallucinate I can control other people, their opinions of me, or the outcome of events.
Low control issues = low drama quotient. It's that simple." Jacob Nordby
BG,
I'm so sorry. Can I ask if your h knew she was pregnant when he moved home? What does he say about pregnancy?
This must be extremely difficult. Hang in there and sending you a hug.
Jerseybeachmomma just went through this. There have been others, maybe some vets can chime in. So sorry- we are thinking of you.
((( )))
This [censored]. H is suffering greatly. Don't want to sound uppity, but we don't hang around people that do this stuff. H almost ran for school board before all this. Very involved in community etc. His secret will now be out and he will be publicly humiliated. I guess when they say around here to leave them alone and let life teach them lessons...is true.
GB-He found out 3 days after moving home. He is a complete wreck. We've taken a 3 day break where he hasn't been home and he was late to work again every time. He is so far gone and disconnected. He has a lot to face. I pray to God that this is his rock bottom. He says his life is ruined. He will never have anything, retire, etc. He hates if I say things like his new life or his other family. This just got really messy. I'm staying out of it.
As for me: I have been exercising, enjoying the company and comfort of friends and family, and having great moments with my kids. I am scared for many reasons.
My dad said a few months back that H needs to wake up before God humbles him...
Blues - I am so impressed by you!! This is a really crappy sitch. But you are right...you have to let your H figure this out on his own. He is an adult and he got himself into this situation. He clearly knows how babies are made since he has done it before.
I am so glad to hear that you have been taking some time to take care of yourself and are finding comfort with your friends and family. I will pray that your H gets his act together and steps up for everyone involved.
Blues- ditto everything above. You have been so strong through this. Keep taking care of you and the kids.
Do your kids know about this?
Blues,
WAS Men don't think with their heads...well...only that other one.
I remember reading a fantastic quote years ago here in DB from a LBS wife who said to her H:
Well, it is obvious that your d!ck didn't JUST accidentally fall inside her! I busted my gut from laughing so hard at that gem!
Blues,I've just recently started reading your posts. I really feel for you and will keep you in my prayers.
Thanks all for your thoughts, comments, and prayers. I saw my lawyer today and filed for legal separation. In our state, it's a first come, first served state for child support. So, this is what I needed to do in order to protect my kids financial future. H was very shocked that I did this. I think he was trying to call my bluff. Call away. I am now going dark and leaving him to his own thoughts.
I am sorry that I have not been following/commenting on so many fellow DB friends threads lately. I have been so overwhelmed with all the changes in my life. I hope to take a little more time to myself and let things settle down.
Lots of ups and downs from H. Verbal commitment: "I'm trying", but no true emotional intimacy.
We went camping together over the holiday weekend. He was present physically. He likes to do the thing where he talks about our future. We should do this or buy that or fix this. But no emotional connection. None. He continues to run from his problems. I will continue to seek legal separation. Once we go to court in June, I will separate all of our finances and assets with his ok. I need to protect my kids and myself.
He is not well. I want someone healthy. Someone who values me. Ugh. This is hard, but I'm getting more independent.
That's a strong and courageous thing to do. You're facing very difficult circumstances.
Keep your head up. You'll get through this. You won't be unchanged but you will get through it.
There's a lot of unhealthy people out there and those DBing need to try not to join that club. So, keep the process going. Don't be fooled with the future talk. Believe nothing he says and only half of what you see. Sorry, but many of us are in the same boat, but refuse to sink.
BG,
I just wanted to check in and hope you are hanging in there. I think you made the right move. Sending you positive vibes:-)