Guys and Gals, I need help.
At couples MC today, my W stated that she wanted a D. Doesn't want to try to work at reconciling.
What do I do now? I want to protect myself financially for the pending D. How do I do that?
Here's my situation link:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...221#Post2371221
If you don't feel you are ready to give up on M, then LRT. I suppose you could consult a L, but maybe wait a bit?
For your own sake talk to a lawyer. Work through the financials and possible D but do not involve W. Let her do the work! Lots of WAS has stated this and done nothing further.
So do what you need to do for your own piece at mind and leave the rest to W.
All the best!
F
Try to stick to one thread until it's over 100 posts. Put a new link on the previous thread so people who have been following you know you opened a new one.
I agree with the others. Consulting a lawyer or even Citizens Advice should be the least you are doing. If your W is that certain she wants the Big D and isn't interested in reconciliation then you need to be looking at all your options and quickly. The more you know, the more prepared you can be so if the worst does happen, you won't have to deal with any surprises as well as the actual event.
Lots of WAS has stated this and done nothing further.
^^This^^ No need to panic, nearly all WAS's throw this out there at some point. It doesn't mean she's going to pursue it anytime soon, she's probably just getting it out there in words to see how it tastes/ feels/ smells.
Thanks guys,
She says she has retained an attorney. Does that change any of your thoughts on whether she means it or not?
BKS
"Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see."
If you feel nervous, many lawyers offer a free consult. You might want to go in and see where you stand.
DP,
If it would make you feel better seeing a lawyer then by all means do it to protect yourself but I would not tell W.
Not read your sitch (had difficulty following it) but sounds like she needs space. Give it her in abundance and focus on you and the kids as much as possible.
No R talk, listen, validate and let her see a strong man who is happy with life regardless of where she is at.
What about your issues/180's and GAL?
BKS, I am so sorry to hear this. I am not a vet DB-er but if she said she has retained a lawyer I don't think you can afford to do the "believe none of what she says" thing. Because next thing you know she will "show" you by serving you and you will be completely blindisded.
There is NOTHING wrong with knowing your legal rights -- even if she hadn't said that to you and you were still DB-ing 1000%. (Knowledge is power). Also you can still DB 1000% until the divorce is finalized (many jurisdicitons have a waiting period for finalization of Ds). I read DB and Michele says you can DB after Ds are announced or even while pending.
Many lawyers offer free initial consultations and many muncipalities offer free legal clinics, if you do not feel quite ready to hire an actual lawyer or if you wish to wait and see if she has. I do agree with PP that you do not have to necessarily tell your W you have sought counsel/retained a lawyer.
Good luck and so sorry again.
Hi BKS
I'm sorry you're here BUT you must protect yourself. My H hired an attorney, after I told him that I would not help destroy us, and I had to also hire an attorney. I am waiting for H steps but I have found someone that will protect me, and my children, because ultimately we need to ensure we are OK.
Take care
Ok, here's this weeks update:
Wed. the 7th, I received a letter from W attorney indicating that I should have my attorney contact her to come to an amicable resolution.
I have talked to a few attorneys but have not retained one yet. I may just wait until I am served papers. I will speak to another attorney on Monday regarding this.
Other than that, I am still cycling up and down with acceptance and right now, I feel saddened by the fact that W is taking away and breaking up our family. It seems so selfish of her and she seemingly could care less.
I still keep a PMA around W and we even played badmitten together with the kids on Thursday. Its a very strange and surreal situation.
BKS
Hello All,
Here is this weeks updates and journaling:
W can be very nice at times and then she just does a complete 180 when she doesn't get her way. She becomes mean spirited and hurtful towards me. I am getting better with letting the hurtful things she says to me roll off my back. I don't react much to her when she is being this way and, as of late, her antics are not bothering me as much at the moment.
She keeps accusing me of not wanting to let my son do his sporting activities. I would love nothing better than to play all the sports he wants. When my W asks me about paying for the sporting activities, I tell her that we should be saving as much as possible right now. My 45% pay cut has not arrived yet but it will soon.
When that happens, we will not be making enough to pay for all our bills etc. so we will have to rely on our savings, which are minimal. The majority of our savings are going to the attorneys with little left to pay for utilities, food, insurance, taxes etc.
She doesn't seem to get the fact that we will not be able to afford much of anything when the pay cut occurs. I am saving all the money I can right now to pay for the divorce, taxes, food and our other bills. She is not happy about his but, I feel that a roof over my childrens heads and food on the table are more important than sports at the moment.
I have also taken over paying for my own credit card. She has been paying the bills up until now but has recently stopped paying off the credit card balance at the end of the month as we always have. She has shorted it 3 months in a row, $400.00 each month. She did make up payments for the first 2 months, but not last months bill. If I don't take over the payment of my credit card, I feel that she will stop paying it all together and I will start paying penalties on it.
I will post more later.
BKS
Journaling:
W became upset a couple of days ago with me regarding our Sprint Online acct. I was getting paperwork together to take to my attorney and I wanted to start getting copies of all our bills. I started with Sprint because its in my name. I believe she changed the username/pw because I could not get in with what I thought was the correct user/pw.
I asked her for the user/pw and she would not tell me what it was. So, I called Sprint and gained access to my acct. In the process, I had to change my user/pw. When she came back, she kept asking me why I wanted the user/pw. She was not satisfied with my explanation of getting paperwork together for my attorney.
I found out that she was trying to ascertain the names of the people's phone numbers that were incoming and outgoing from my phone to try and find out what I am up to. Basically, she is snooping.
She later tried to log on to our account and could not because of the change in user/pw. She asked what I had changed it to and I said I would give it to her after I changed the pw to a different pw that I didn't mind her having. She was not satisfied with that either and kept pestering me to give it to her. In light of her snooping, I am mot so inclined to give her access to the online account now.
Anyway, the night was less than fun with her. She was in a sour mood and was being hostile and antagonistic towards me. She told me to stop being a "prick" and that "she was going to take me for everything I "don't have". Meaning, that because she sees me as having nothing she will make sure I pay long after the divorce is final.
BKS
Journaling:
Wife asked me yesterday how long I intend to live in our house during the course of our D. She told me that there are many places I could go rent an apartment and that I should go now and find one so I could move out. I told her that this is my home and this is where I live right now. She asked, "why do want to stay living together with someone who doesn't love you and doesn't want you here?" She asked if I was comfortable living in our house, considering our pending D.
I calmly replied to her that this is my home and this is where I live. I said that if she was not comfortable that she could leave if it made her feel more comfortable.
She is becoming increasingly hostile and antagonistic and her alcohol consumption is increasing.
BKS
I'm not sure I have any advice, but you seem to be handling things as well as you can be. In my own situation, my wife lives separately and said she does not intend to come back. As I don't know where she is at with separation/divorce, I decided I did not want to be surprised. I am in the process of scheduling an initial consultation with a few lawyers as I really don't know how to pick one. I really don't intent to hire until she has made a move to hire legal counsel. At this point, I only want to know my rights; what I may have to do to protect myself; and what I can expect if the worst happens. My research suggests most charge for the consultation because the consultation creates an attorney-client privelage and some people seek multiple consultations to "poison the well" (i.e., block the spouse from hiring a particular attorney).
I will hold out hope that things may yet change for you and your marriage.
BKS, that's a great response, and a great way to not let it escalate.
I went thru same thing for a spell, I kept in the back of my mind, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.
Listen, validate, 180, detach and GAL! It took a couple of months, she burned thru the alchohol/freedom, it wasn't so much fun after a while like she thought. Its guilt. Let her own her own guilt, you cant speed it up, and making her feel more guilty will only come back and bite you.
You know your wife, her expressions, her body gestures. If you see it starting to come on. GET AWAY.
Let her live in her own misery. Once my wife finally started burning thru, or slowed the running in my opinion, had to face some of the music. It slowly starts to click again. They think they're running TO the answer, they soon (ok some not so soon, some not ever) discover they're running from the answers. Theres absolutely nothing you can do, help, speed up, slow down, or have any input on the self destruction. Its a journey they must make before the fog clears.
Sometimes its rock bottom, for others its not as far to fall, but they all fall at some point before they can "get it" again.
Its hard not to take on a personal level, but that's exactly what u must get away from, and Detach. Its not that you need to move on, its not that you need to give up, its just that you need to remove yourself and move along. I have an aunt that's been married to the same man 6x, not kidding, 6 times.
I understand checking out the attorney, glad your keeping it in the mindset of having options in front of you. It doesn't need to be anymore than that unless she's draining accts, hiding money, making it impossible for you to live. I don't know the circumstances, but its good to just cover your bases.
Don't move out, continue PMA and DB'ing. You can say "This is not what I want, but I will not stand in your way if you feel it is what you need to do" (regarding divorce)
In her head, when she filed for D, she probably thought that would resolve all the feelings she has been having, for you are the cause of everything. it didn't so now she is on the next step...if you move, that will make her happy. It won't.
She just does not realize it yet. Stay your course, I know it's not easy. Get out, do things etc. GAL
Thanks Dragon and Kate,
She is getting frustrated that none of this has resolved her problems or her feelings. We can still have what I see as "nice conversations" and then she flips a switch and is hostile and antagonistic again. This IS the "Roller Coaster Ride from Hell"
I do keep my PMA and composure when she is being negative towards me most of the times. When I cant keep my composure, I just excuse myself and tell her I don't care to talk about things right now.
Regarding moving out; I wont move out unless I have to.
BKS
Journaling:
W is getting more frustrated that the D process isn't moving along as fast as she would like. She asked me for some paperwork today and I told her no. She then secretly took my car key off my keychain and told me that the car is in her name and that I cant drive it until she gets her paperwork.
I contacted my atty. and informed her of what was transpiring. She (atty) placed a call to W's atty. W's atty called my W and told her that she cant take my keys and to give them back. My atty also told me that I could give her the paperwork she asked for.
I feel like I am in high school again with the games she is trying to play only the stakes are much higher. Games like not paying off my credit card in full like we always have. I have had to take over the payments on my credit card to insure that my credit rating is not affected This is a good thing though.
I hope that we can get through this, as W says, amicably. I don't see that happening though. She is expecting me to sign everything over to her and still pay for everything too and then quietly go away. This will not play out the way she is envisioning it in her head. I also need to have a safe environment for my children to live.
I am looking forward to being done with this chapter in my life and getting on with my life. I don't see any hope for reconciliation and really don't like person she has become. I am losing my motivation for trying/hoping that things will get better, ever.
It has only been 7 months since BD but I don't think I can live this way for much longer. I believe its time for me to let her go completely and move on. She has devastated me emotionally and now is wanting to financially devastate me. I know MLCers do this kind of stuff but I think my tolerance for her has reached its end.
BKS
She asked me for some paperwork today and I told her no.
Don't do anything to block the D, it'll just make her mad and the D will proceed anyway. Do make her do all the work for it, but if she asks you for something that she can't generate herself then by all means give it to her. I'm going through the exact same thing- W has been requesting info for the D and I've been giving it to her.
She is expecting me to sign everything over to her and still pay for everything too and then quietly go away.
Unfortunately that's not uncommon in D's. Let your L run interference for you on that, you don't need to be the bad guy.
I am looking forward to being done with this chapter in my life and getting on with my life.
I'm sure she is too. Interestingly, I was just reading an article that talked about how 70% of divorcees regret the D a year later. Obviously in your case it's your W that's pushing it through, but I don't think D will bring either of you the closure you think it will.
That sort of made me chuckle that she played the 3rd grade game of steal-the-car-key. I love that you just flat called your lawyer on her; to me that is a fantastic boundary when a WAS starts jumping into the D, let them learn that there are actual rules around it, and you can't use it as a weapon.
And I feel just like you do - ready for this to be done. I really think that's where the GAL comes in. It fights those feelings of despair and desperation because you're focused. It helps smooth out the dips of despair.
And I feel just like you do - ready for this to be done.
I admit I have those feelings too, it's not that I want the M over but this whole D thing just feels like it's hanging over me like the Sword of Damocles, suspended by a single horse's hair, LOL!
Thanks for the replies everyone,
==From: AnotherStander: "I'm sure she is too. Interestingly, I was just reading an article that talked about how 70% of divorcees regret the D a year later. Obviously in your case it's your W that's pushing it through, but I don't think D will bring either of you the closure you think it will".== (I don't know how to quote very well yet)
I agree with you on this. The only closure I want on this is that we have successfully reconciled our M.
I just don't see that happening anytime soon. She wants to expedite the D as fast as possible. Part of me agrees with her on this. Like ripping the band-aid off quickly. The other part of me is in no hurry at all. I am not lifting a finger to help her with this. She can do all the work.
I told her this last week that, "although I don't want this D, I wont stand in her way if this is what she feels she needs to do". I am just not willing to help her expedite the D or help build her case against me.
She says that I am being selfish in trying to defend my rights in the D. eg. the fair and equitable division of the marital property. (This D will more than likely cause us to have to sell the house and uproot the kids. This does trouble me). I thought that her saying that was ironic. She is thinking of her herself right now. I am hopeful that IF the house does have to be sold and split up that we are both able to find homes that will provide a safe environment for the kids.
She says that by getting the D she is thinking about the best interest of the children. I told her that the best interest of the children would be better served by their parents working through these tough times and set that example for them. She says that staying together when she is "miserable" is not the example she wants to set for them.
I suppose there is truth to both points of view.
BKS
I agree with you on this. The only closure I want on this is that we have successfully reconciled our M.
I just don't see that happening anytime soon. She wants to expedite the D as fast as possible. Part of me agrees with her on this. Like ripping the band-aid off quickly. The other part of me is in no hurry at all. I am not lifting a finger to help her with this. She can do all the work.
Yeah, I'm right there with you. I don't want D, but as it seems inevitable I just want W to get it over with as it's been looming large for 6+ months now. I'm only helping W to the extent that she asks for info from me.
I told her this last week that, "although I don't want this D, I wont stand in her way if this is what she feels she needs to do".
That's the right approach to take in this sitch.
(This D will more than likely cause us to have to sell the house and uproot the kids. This does trouble me).
I'm sorry it's coming to that, that would make things even more difficult than they already are for sure. Thankfully I'll be able to get through this without losing the house, but I will be incurring additional debt. I paid the house off a few years ago, was nice to be debt-free for a while but I'll have to take a new loan out on it to pay W back for her half of the equity.
She is thinking of only herself right now.
Typical WAS mindset. They think they've been putting others before themselves for years and that now it's all about them. I think most of them were not as selfless as they like to think (I know my W wasn't), but that's part of the fog they're mired in.
She says that by getting the D she is thinking about the best interest of the children. I told her that the best interest of the children would be better served by their parents working through these tough times and set that example for them.
Couldn't agree with you more. MWD talks about this in DR, she offers data and statistics explaining how bad D is on kids. But WAS's absolutely will not hear it, they convince themselves that nothing could be better for the kids. They are dead wrong. In my opinion D is completely a selfish act on the part of the WAS (except in the case of extreme abuse), it only serves their perceived desires. It's a total trainwreck for everyone else involved.
AnotherStander,
How do you quote like that. I haven't spent enough time to completely figure it out. When I do try to quote, I cant seem to easily get the one sentence quotes like you have.
Also, thanks for the reply. It does sounds like you and I are on a similar time line with respect to our respective D's. Like you, I am ready to be over with this. I feel like I am giving up on our M though. I would like to at least try to reconcile but she shows now signs of wanting that. Therefore, I am hoping for an expeditious end to the D proceedings.
She thinks that I should just bend over and be happy that she is devastating our family, our children. She seems to have no concept of the damage that this will cause our children. The harmful affects are immediate and long lasting. I have gone through my parents divorce when I was about my sons age. It was a very confusing and depressing time for me and my siblings.
While I was growing up as a child, I still remember the pain and hurt of wanting a normal family life. I still hold some deep seeded resentments towards my parents. I know they did the best they could but it does not change the fact that we kids were scarred by their actions, just as my kids will be scarred by her actions.
She still believes that I am the cause of all her problems and that when we are divorced, she will finally find her happiness. I hope that she does find what she is looking for even though it makes me livid that our children will suffer because of this. I know I had my part in hurting the marriage but I would try everything to make it work before giving up so easily.
The difference is that I am willing and able to do the hard work of reconciling and she is not willing to lift a finger to try and work through our issues. The way I see it, she is putting more effort into devastating our family and our children's lives than it would take to fix our M and R. I guess that is the way of the MLC/WAS.
Thanks again,
BKS
Journaling:
told W on my plans to go to see my brother on the 20th thru the 21st. She asked why I was going. I was told her that I have to take care of some paper work regarding our D. She wasn't satisfied with that answer and pressed me for more info. I reminded her that she wants us to start maintain our separate lives. She does her thing and I do mine and I am not to ask or question what she is doing. And vice versus.
She has a scheduling conflict with me going on the 20th thru the 21st so I started looking at our calendar and see if I could accommodate her schedule. I asked her if various dates would better and there were none. I said I would look into it when I get back from my errands.
Before I could get the schedule sorted out to better fit both our schedules she went ahead and made plans on the evening of the 20th. She did this to block me from my plans on the 20th.
More later,
BKS
BKS,
Sorry your having to deal with the spewing. It does sound like pretty typical script stuff, but that doesn't make it any easier to deal with of course. How long does the divorce take in your state? does it also count as a legal separation until processed?
I think the hardest part about this stage, is that your thinking straight. Trying to make sense of whats happening and its effects. Its obvious they cannot do that, they think pushing will just get them the answers faster......little do they know the damage their doing, especially with the kids.
I know it feels like your already doing all the heavy lifting, is there a way, at least for now, that you can limit interactions between the two of you down to the absolute bare minimum. She thinks she's in total control, the only thing you can do, is take the control out of her hands thru intermediates. Don't let her escalate things with you, as its not helping a thing anyways. I know she's pushing the divorce right now, but how about getting with the lawyers and figuring out a legal separation that will handle the kids time, so you can do things without having to ask her what dates are available? and she can keep blocking you. She has a lot of power over your schedule for someone wanting to divorce you. Are there no ground rules in place? Don't do this to retaliate, but to protect yourself.
Anyways, sorry for just jumping in, some of those ideas might come off as a reverse control, and that's not what I mean. Its a slippery slope for sure.
AnotherStander,
How do you quote like that. I haven't spent enough time to completely figure it out. When I do try to quote, I cant seem to easily get the one sentence quotes like you have.
Start by clicking on "Quote" under the post you're replying to. That will quote the entire post, which usually isn't what you want. But you can break it down to the blurbs you want to reply to, then highlight just the part you want and click on the "quote" mark above the edit window (if you hover your mouse over it, it will say "quote some text"). Then type your response right below it, then move on to the next blurb and repeat the above process. I always hit "Preview Post" before submitting just to make sure nothing wonky happened in the quotes.
Like you, I am ready to be over with this. I feel like I am giving up on our M though. I would like to at least try to reconcile but she shows now signs of wanting that.
It's the D that I'm tired of having hanging over my head, but I don't see that as the end of things. In fact if we never get back together D wasn't the end, S was. Because we've done little but function as coparents since S. D is kind of anticlimactic really. Regarding her not showing signs of wanting to R, they never do. It's like I just posted in Turtle's thread, usually it's like a switch is flipped. They go from being totally done to suddenly wanting to work on things, and it's practically overnight. So you can't use that as a litmus test of whether she'll ever want to reconcile, because if she does ever get there she'll blindside you with it just like BD.
Now I am not saying we should sit around the house waiting for the phone to ring. We have to move on with our lives. The WAS may want to return some day, or they may not. We can't predict the future. So we live our lives, make ourselves better people, and each of us decides when to close the door to our WAS. It may sound odd, but closing that door for good is actually the LBS's decision to make.
She thinks that I should just bend over and be happy that she is devastating our family, our children.
Actually the reality is probably quite different- your W is not at all happy about the sitch and is certainly not proud of her actions. She feels very hurt and is doing this out of desperation. She feels she has to do this to survive. She is constantly battling herself over whether this is right or not. Try to have some sympathy for her (I know that's a big thing to ask for, but if you can get there then you will experience significant growth through forgiveness), she is hurting as much as you are even though she may not show it.
The difference is that I am willing and able to do the hard work of reconciling and she is not willing to lift a finger to try and work through our issues.
Yup, that's what DB'ing is. "It takes one to tango".
Thanks AnotherStander
Actually the reality is probably quite different- your W is not at all happy about the sitch and is certainly not proud of her actions. She feels very hurt and is doing this out of desperation. She feels she has to do this to survive. She is constantly battling herself over whether this is right or not. Try to have some sympathy for her (I know that's a big thing to ask for, but if you can get there then you will experience significant growth through forgiveness), she is hurting as much as you are even though she may not show it.
I can see what you are saying with regard for my W. I know she is hurting and that she is conflicted with her decision. I believe you are right when you said she feels she needs to do this to survive.
I am internally angry that she is depriving our children from growing up in a home with two loving parent. Externally though, I show her as much warmth and kindness as I can. It is difficult sometime when she instigates arguments or tries to push my buttons.
People have said to me that I am handling this crisis way better than they could have. I just tell them that I understand, better than most, what she is going through e.g. MLC/WAS. I don't hold it against her. Its something that she feels she needs to do. I know, (from this forum and many books), that this is a journey that she needs to go through on her own.
I can see why the main issues she is holding against me upset her so much. Mainly financial problems, now exacerbated by attorney's fee's.
She also says I have lied to her too many times. That one took me by surprise. I don't feel I have lied to her at all. I believe she has misunderstood some things that I have told her. Those misunderstandings are what she is interpreting as lies. When I try to explain her misunderstandings, it comes across as defending myself. And we all know that is not the protocol.
As far as closing the door to our M and R. I am at the point where the door is closed on that chapter of my life. At least that is where my head is right now. For my sanity, I have to shut the door on our M. The hoping and praying have helped me get through the crisis. Hope is a very powerful thing but, I need to distance from that hope and get on with my life for my sake.
That's not to say I have locked the door on our M. Just gently closed it. I do still love her for some reason. Maybe its more accurate to say that I loved who she was but, I do not love who she has become. I don't even recognize the person she has become anymore.
She works very hard to convince herself that I am the sole cause of this D.
On a positive note, she appears to be trying to become more amicable towards me. It has only been this way for the last two days but, it nice to see her treat me with some sort of respectfulness.
Anyway, thanks for the responses everyone. This forum has helped me through THE most difficult time in my life. I thank you all for helping me see MLC for what it is. Knowing that there is nothing that we can do to expedite our MLCer/WAS's through this has helped me find my patience.
Like they say,
Its not our fault but, it is our problem. I know I have not been the perfect husband to my wife. But I also understand that nobody is perfect.
Alright, enough rambling for now.
Have a great Sunday and may you favorite football team win today!
BKS
Journaling,
I got home from work late last night. This morning, our kids wanted me to take them to school. W said no to that. This is the third or forth time that she has stated that I cant take the kids to school. She said that the bus makes a special stop in front of our house so Carson must take the bus.
I pleaded my case to W, to let me take S9 to school. She was adamant that he take the bus. I finally told her that she was being rediculous and that I was going to drive S9 to school. D4 said she wanted to go with S9 and me and also that D4 wanted me to take her to school. W said no and D4 was disappointed.
There was no reason for W to not allow me to drive the kids to school. She is just being negative for the sake of being negative I guess?
More updates and journaling to come...
BKS
BKS, I just read your current thread, and I would not ask W. I would TELL her. From what I read, she's been controlling and demanding and trying to get under your skin.
Bus drivers get paid regardless where they go. Stop pleading your case - if W bellyaches, say, "I'm sorry you feel that way", grab your kids, and leave. You don't have to be a jerk or rub it in her face, and it's almost guaranteed she'll throw a fit, especially if she's sees she's losing control. But if you do it in the proper manner, she'll soon lose that stance.
I got threats all the time of taking the kids, getting all my money, etc, etc - never panned out, so ignore any of that.
JonF,
Thanks for the reply.
I am in the beginning stages of D so I don't know really what to expect with regards to who gets what. I do know that alimony and child support are a given. Just not sure what to expect with regards to our property etc.
My attorney says one thing and hers says another. Time will tell I guess.
BKS
I want my posts to be posted.
I want my posts to be posted, plz
I got home from work late last night. This morning, our kids wanted me to take them to school. W said no to that. This is the third or forth time that she has stated that I cant take the kids to school. She said that the bus makes a special stop in front of our house so Carson must take the bus.
I pleaded my case to W, to let me take S9 to school. She was adamant that he take the bus. I finally told her that she was being rediculous and that I was going to drive S9 to school. D4 said she wanted to go with S9 and me and also that D4 wanted me to take her to school. W said no and D4 was disappointed.
There was no reason for W to not allow me to drive the kids to school. She is just being negative for the sake of being negative I guess?
I agree with Jon, I wouldn't ask her, I would just tell the kids yes and then go ahead and do it. Not only is not her place to tell you that you can't drive your children to school, how does it make you look to the children when W says no and you allow it? No more pleading on this one, take charge!
Thanks lovethehub,
What a pain it is dealing with the MLC/WAS.
She has recently started telling me that the reason she is leaving me, is because of all the lies that I have been telling her. She has called me a liar in front of the kids on several occasions. I told her that I to stop calling me a liar in front of the kids.
I said to her that what she may think are lies, are her misunderstanding what I am saying. She cognitively distorts most of what I say and puts a negative spin on it. I believe she does this so that she can convince herself and everyone else that she has good cause for D.
I think she is also trying to get me to react negatively towards her or be lured into an arguement. I don't take the bait and that frustrates her more.
What do I say to someone who is acting this way without coming across as defending myself?
BKS
Lovethehub,
In your signature it says "makes sense to stay together". How did you both come to that conclusion? I will look for your thread too.
thanks
BKS
What do I say to someone who is acting this way without coming across as defending myself?
You validate. I can almost hear you screaming "BUT SHE CALLED ME A LIAR!!" However, just remember that validation is NOT agreeing. It is also not arguing/ reasoning/ disagreeing/ explaining/ negotiating. It is simply acknowledging her feelings. She calls you a liar, you say "I understand why you feel that way, that sounds frustrating. Is that how it makes you feel, frustrated?" Notice that you did not agree with her that you're a liar, in fact you aren't even discussing the content at all, you're discussing how it makes her FEEL. Do you see the difference? If you say "I am NOT a liar, and don't ever say that in front of the kids again!!!!" It will just lead to an argument. But validate, and it will calm her down and may even get her to open up about her feelings which is the real goal. You won't believe how effective it is until you try it!
I agree with AS - I demanded "boundaries" with my W about the kids and stuff, and it made her worse. I know now, possibly too late, that supporting her, and believing in her would've caused her to change herself without me saying another word...
Thanks AS and Jon,
Thank you for the explanation about validating. You are right AS. I have only asked her to not say that I lie to her in front of our kids. She has done this repeatedly and we are a family that does not believe in lying or keeping secrets. I will keep working on my validation skills.
I feel that I have come a long way since the BD, and that was in Feb2013. The more I think I know what to do regarding my MLCer, the more I realize that I have so much more to learn. It is a slow and painful process that we must go through, both LBS and MLC/WAS. Thank God for this forum and all who share their knowledge with others. Thank you all.
I have for the most part, given up on thinking that we will ever reconcile and I am good with it for the most part. I still pray for strength and patience to get through this crisis. I know we have a long way to go. I am moving forward with her wishes for the D. I am not helping her with it mind you but, I am not hindering either.
Surprisingly, we are still in couples counceling. I come away from MC with a good feeling most of the time. Not because we are working on R but we are able to get our points of view across and out and the open. She still thinks I am the root of all evil but for whatever reason, she continues to show up at MC.
I will update later. I will try to participate more actively in the near future but work and attorneys take a lot out of me these days.
I hope the day finds you all well and making progress.
BKS
BKS
I haven’t posted on your thread in a long time but I stumbled on this one:
“Surprisingly, we are still in couples counceling.”
Give this a thought: Why are YOU still in this?
If this is your true opinion:
“Not because we are working on R but we are able to get our points of view across and out and the open. She still thinks I am the root of all evil but for whatever reason, she continues to show up at MC.”
…I don’t get it unless you are working hope and thereby …… (you fill in the blanks)
All the best
F
Lovethehub,
In your signature it says "makes sense to stay together". How did you both come to that conclusion? I will look for your thread too.
thanks
BKS
BKS,
We didn't come to that conclusion together. My H started coming around near the end of May, after 3 months of wanting to D, no physical contact, no R talks, etc. We were completely separated emotionally (he had BD'd me many times but this time was different and I could tell he really meant it).
When he started coming back to me we had a conversation and he said "nothing has really changed for me, I don't think I can ever feel deep love for you again but I think it makes sense for us to stay together because of the kids, finances, etc." My first reaction was hurt and I wasn't sure I wanted any part of that, however, I quickly realized that with what I was learning on here that could change so I tried not to think about it. In July we 'agreed we were healing'.
Your post made me update my signature; I received a text from H the other day that said "I love you. I am so glad we are working on our M".
We have been M 10 years (last week) and 6-7 of them weren't great, with 4 being horrible for both of us. This is the first time I have felt optimistic that we really will work things out in a permanent way. Neither of us are falling back into our old habits (at least not yet); we are doing our best to have QT (my LL, his 2nd) and focus on each other. We have also learned how to deal with our conflicts without turning on each other, name calling, etc.
As for MC, it may be a plus that she is still showing up. I sat in MC for a long time telling H and C what they wanted to hear but inside didn't mean any of it - but I kept showing up because deep inside there was a part of me that didn't really want a D (I was the WAW at first and had an A). Your W is getting her feelings out, remember to listen and validate and keep showing her your improvements.
I wish you success!
Thank you for your replies LTH and F.
BKS
I haven’t posted on your thread in a long time but I stumbled on this one:
“Surprisingly, we are still in couples counceling.”
Give this a thought: Why are YOU still in this?
I am still in MC because I love her and I still have some faint hope that we can R. Even when she is at her worst, I still feel much love for her. I dont know if that is healthy at this point in our M though.
I am still in MC mainly to help my W and I to learn to communicate better about our D and how to best help our children through the D.
I do still hope and pray that our M will be saved. Its a difficult path to walk while I am also trying to move forward with my life.
Hoping for our M to be healed and moving forward with my life seem to be diametrically opposed (complete opposites for those of you in Yorba Linda, LOL)
Anyway, I believe my W is actively working on beginning a R with OM. Just a strong feeling I get.
BTW, my kids are so wonderful. We had a great day together this past Saturday. We went to church in the morning. W went too. Then we went to ride the gokarts in wheatfield in the afternoon without W. We then went home and got ready to go to the drive-in theater without W. We played mini golf and played on the playground before the movie. We saw "Cloudy with a chance of Meatballs 2". A very great day.
BKS
Journaling:
Went to work Sunday 29th. That night she hired a babysitter and went out with her "girlfriends". I now believe she is pursuing a probable EA with OM. I overheard a phone conversation she had which leads me to believe that this is the case.
Our property taxes are due and she asked me to transfer the money to her account so she could pay it. I told her that I would pay it when I get home. I want to make sure that the money is going where it is intended, the tax bill.
She is not too happy about that and has been pestering me for the last two days to give her the money. I keep telling her that I will pay it when I get home.
In the meantime, since she is not happy about this, she seems to be actively keeping me from talking with the children and ignoring my phone calls. She said she wouldn't pass on any messages to the kids from me until she gets the money (I'm paraphrasing). Nasty business divorce is. And I don't think we have arrived at the worst of it yet.
Her negative bias towards me is relentless. As bad as it is, it does help me to stay detached from her. I keep asking myself why do I still love her and hope that she finds her way out of the tunnel/fog. I know that is a question only I can answer for myself.
I will pose the question to all of you. What keeps you hanging on to the hope of reconciling with your S?
May we all find the strength and patience to get through this.
BKS
She is not too happy about that and has been pestering me for the last two days to give her the money. I keep telling her that I will pay it when I get home.
Maybe she's just concerned you won't get around to paying it. I would follow through on that promise and pay it this evening when you get home, then let her know it's taken care of. If she rants about it, well then you'll know she had other plans for the money. But if she's relieved, then you'll know she was just worried about it getting paid.
I will pose the question to all of you. What keeps you hanging on to the hope of reconciling with your S?
The many success stories. I think if people knew how long this really takes and were committed to sticking it out, there would be even more success stories. Unfortunately most LBS's want to throw in the towel and move on after only months when realistically it takes a year or two for most WASs to come out of the fog. That said, I'm not sitting around watching the phone waiting for my W to call. I'm living life without her. Maybe she'll come back some day and maybe she won't, either way I will be fine. I do keep a small flame of hope burning though, just in case
Anotherstander,
Thanks for checking in on me so often. I do value your opinion and insight on this subject.
Would you still take your W back now if she wanted to reconcile?
If so, how do you go about piecing the R back together again?
So much damage done to the R. I guess what we think is the hard part of dealing with our MLCer is letting them go. I think it would be equally hard to take them back. So much damage done to the LBS and children/family.
So much work to be done after the fog lifts. I do believe what you are left with, after reconciling, is a much better and stronger R and M.
I hope we all get to experience marriage, with our S, after MLC.
BKS
BKS, I agree with you completely, there's a lot of wreckage to sort through if W ever decided she wanted to try at the M. I definitely would not just throw the door open and tell her to move back in. I don't even know if I would want to be married to the person she's become because she is so vastly different than who she was even 2 years ago (I'm about to post an update to my thread going into how D16 and I had a long talk last night and D16 said she doesn't even know who her mom is anymore). We'd have to start back with the basics- dating and getting to know each other again. The chemistry is no longer there, so a big question in my mind is whether we can even get it back. And there are big trust issues that would have to be dealt with too. It would be many months before I would consider letting her move back in, and I would insist on MC and returning to RetroV before that could happen.
AnotherStander,
Can you post the link to your thread. I am not very good at finding peoples threads. I have tried but I find links to posts you have made, not your individual thread.
Stay strong,
Thanks again
BKS
Can you post the link to your thread. I am not very good at finding peoples threads. I have tried but I find links to posts you have made, not your individual thread.
Hopefully this will be a link to all the threads:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=31339The way you do it is to click on the person's name, then click on "View Posts", then click on "Topics Created" and that will display just the threads that the person has started.
AnotherStander,
I started reading your thread. Different sort of situation than mine. Interesting though.
Well, OM is confirmed and there is at the very least EA and I am pretty sure that it is a PA too.
Thankfully, this came as no surprise and, although extremely disappointing, not a surprise in the least. The OM is who I have suspected all along, divorced dad from my sons hockey team last year. I had this very strong GUT feeling about it and now I know that my GUT was right.
Here is my question. Now that I know this is the case and my W is full steam ahead on the D, What do I do now?
How does this affect my D in the NY State divorce court. Morally this is so wrong, I know. Legally, what does it mean to me? She filed for the D. Do I bring this EA up in court? I will have to consult my Attorney about this.
Anyone have any experience with this?
Also, she offered me $10K to walk out the door and save us the court costs. This is about 10 times short of fair.
BKS
WOW!!! Just WOW!!! (and not in a good way)
W just went completely ballistic on me. I will try to explain this and would like any of your comments on this.
She does not know that I know about her and the OM, unless somehow she has figured out that I post on this site.
I came home from taking my D4 to the playground. S9 was at his friends house. She asked "whats my number". Meaning, what percentage of the marital assets do I want in order to leave and move out. I told her all along that I wanted what was "fair and equitable" whatever that turns out to be. She said I had better not fight her on the house or else it would all my fault if we lose the house.
She was emotionally heated and promptly left the house and presumably went to OM's house (mind reading). I asked her if she would be having dinner with us. She made no reply and just left.
I made dinner (popsicle chicken, D4s favorite at the moment)and was putting it on the table when D4 asked if she could call mommy. I dialed and gave her the phone. D4 wanted W to come home and have dinner with us.
W came home and sat down and had dinner with us. After dinner, S9 went outside to ride his bike. W began ranting about how much money I wanted to make me go away. I told her that I wasn't going to talk about the D in front of the kids. D4 was still in the room with us.
She continued to press the issue. I repeatedly said that I was not going to talk about it in front of the kids.
D4 eventually went outside to play with S9. That's when the yelling started. She demanded to know how much I wanted. I repeated that I still did not want to talk about it and left the conversation at, "I want whats fair and equitable". She asked how much that was and I said 50% of the marital assets.
That's when the real ranting began. She went off on me saying all sorts of vitriol and said that if she loses the house, it would be all my fault. I told her that she could stop us from losing the house but I cant. I said that she started the D and I was just along for the ride. I kept my composure and let it roll off my back. She said that I was a "loser" that I did not provide for my family. Same old stuff as usual.
I told her that I understand that she feels that way and that I was sorry that she felt that way. She then continued yelling on her way out of the house.
That was part of my day. Please let me know what you think.
Also, I pretty much knew that EA/PA was going on and I had some time to mentally prepare for it. It still p!sses me off though now that it is confirmed. What would you all do about OM, particularly him and his kids coming over to our home while I am not there? ( I travel for work a lot)
I would love to have a face to face with him and tell him where to go. I know that is frowned upon here. I also, would like to tell her that OM and his kids are not to come over to our house until the D is final.
What are your thought on this everyone?
BKS
Good for you for refusing to talk about it in front of the children. Your W is wrong for talking about it in front of them and one of you needs some common sense. Also, nice job keeping your cool.
I have to defer to the vets on the advice you are seeking but I wanted you to know someone was here.
Thanks LTH,
I so want to tell them both off and give them a piece of my mind but, I came here to rant and vent.
I will try to keep my mouth shut until I get more guidance on this.
I find that reading others past experience helps tremendously.
BKS
BKS,
I agree with LBH!
Perhaps consider ending a talk where she is spewing!
W, if we can’t continue this talk in a proper manner I will leave it.Then leave it if she continues!
I also, would like to tell her that OM and his kids are not to come over to our house until the D is final.
I can see why – hopefully a VET will come by and advice you on this one!
I would be furious and I am impressed with the way you handle yourselves!
I would love to have a face to face with him and tell him where to go.
.....but what would/could you gain from this?
BKS, you are in a rough spot and doing good! Well done on keeping on the high road!
F
Thanks Fartiltre,
I know in the long run, staying on the high road is the best approach. The hard part about this is the line I have to walk. I don't want to give her the satisfaction of seeing me lose my cool. But I would love to get some satisfaction with a face to face with OM. I know there is nothing positive to gain from that.
The fact that OM is now confirmed, somehow gives me some peace of mind though. What I mean by this is, I have a renewed sense of confidence that my gut feelings were correct regarding OM. I also have a better sense of how to proceed. I have been trying to accommodate her a bit too much during all this. I have little motivation left for accommodation.
I, like a lot of LBS's, have been trying to figure out why a S would do this to their family. I understand that the OM can be like an addiction and there is nothing I can do to change her mind about it. She either will or she wont.
Now that I know about the two of them, my thoughts have started to wonder about the next steps I must take. If she wanted to come back now, I could not take her back. Cheating goes against everything I believe in, morally and otherwise. I have read that it is forgivable, I just don't see how at the moment. I will cross that bridge if I ever get to it.
The thing that gets me though is, she was brought up Catholic and we go to church every Sunday. OM is also Catholic. So now, two supposedly God fearing individuals, have committed adultery and could seemingly care less. They go to church and act like they are respectable participants but it is all just for show. I suppose they need God now, more than ever.
I have recently asked God to take the blinders off of me so that I may see things as they really are. Wow! What an eye opener. Be careful what you wish for. I am grateful that my eyes are now open so I can move forward with no regrets. In the end, I will be able to sleep at night, knowing that I did my best to save my M.
I have thought I was fairly detached from W. Staying lovingly detach the best I could. After discovering EA/PA I can say that I am at a new level of detachment.
I have felt guilt about my part in our crisis and I know I was not perfect. But, no one deserves to be treated this way. I have always believed that cheating on someone, married or not, is the worst thing you could possibly do to someone. In love, there are no guarantees.
For the moment, I am content for some reason. I think it is because, thanks to all of you here who have shared your stories and MWD, and reading DR DB, I can understand what MLC/WAS is all about. I can see now why they say to read all you can about MLC.
Once you know what MLC/WAS is all about and what choices you have, you can make better decisions for yourself. You are able to choose how to best react/respond to your MLCer.
BKS
BKS
I have felt guilt about my part in our crisis and I know I was not perfect
What you have to comprehend is that the above is properly the cause of OM – thats why he came along! I have never heard or read about OM/OW in a happy marriage.
This is properly also the “excuse” your W uses in front of herself and God! I had to do this – we will all be better off so it is the right thing to do!
I, like a lot of LBS's, have been trying to figure out why a S would do this to their family.
I am not a VET but as I see the WAS now, she is (in her head) not doing it TO the family – she is doing it FOR the family! She is doing it to save herself and her children and she properly counts you in as well:
You will be much better without me or other script.
The fact that OM is now confirmed, somehow gives me some peace of mind though.
Removed doubts, even if discovery is unpleasant, often gives this feeling so I understand why!
BKS, I totally understand if you are hurting and feeling anger, but it will get you nowhere right now – if ever! Stick to the high road and keep being the best man and farther you can.
All the best
F
Here is my question. Now that I know this is the case and my W is full steam ahead on the D, What do I do now?
There is an A in every single sitch. It may be a PA, or it may be an EA, or if neither of those than an IA- imaginary affair (the WAS imagines a new/ improved life with a special someone that's just waiting out there for them). But regardless, the WAS ALWAYS has some kind of A going on. It doesn't change anything other than the fact that you know about it now.
How does this affect my D in the NY State divorce court.
You'll have to consult your lawyer, in most states there is no impact on D. Most states have given up trying to determine fault because you say she's having an affair, she says you did X, Y and Z that drove her to an affair. I don't blame them, it's too much to sort through.
But I would love to get some satisfaction with a face to face with OM.
That's not satisfaction, it's revenge, and it will not help you get to where you need to be. In fact it'll likely set you way back on your journey.
The thing that gets me though is, she was brought up Catholic and we go to church every Sunday. OM is also Catholic. So now, two supposedly God fearing individuals, have committed adultery and could seemingly care less.
100% of churchgoers are sinners. Some try to assign higher and lower values to certain sins, but that's of our own making, in God's eyes all sins are equally bad. I'm not sure why to some people an affair is a deal-killer, Christ said that if you think it in your mind it's just as sinful as if you committed it, and what married person (whether WAS or LBS) has not at least fantasized about an affair?
They go to church and act like they are respectable participants but it is all just for show.
That's total mind-reading. I suspect they are both wracked with much more guilt then you give them credit for.
After discovering EA/PA I can say that I am at a new level of detachment.
This is the kind of news that takes months to digest, so just step back and take a breath. You're likely still cycling, so just be patient.
It still p!sses me off though now that it is confirmed.
= NOT DETACHED
What would you all do about OM, particularly him and his kids coming over to our home while I am not there?
Nothing. OM is a symptom of your marital problems, not the cause. Any interaction you attempt with OM is just going to make your sitch worse. Possibly much worse. It's not unheard of for that to end in restraining orders and nights in jail.
I would love to have a face to face with him and tell him where to go.
Work on that detachment! When you can see your W with OM out somewhere and just stop and say hello and chat briefly, then you're getting there. Yes, it's happened to me and yes, that's what I did and no, I didn't have an emotional meltdown afterwards.
It still p!sses me off though now that it is confirmed.
= NOT DETACHED
[/quote]
Not completely detached but more detached than I was before. I know that I feel like I am on an up cycle for now. Lots more work to do on myself.
After discovering EA/PA I can say that I am at a new level of detachment.
[quote=AnotherStander
This is the kind of news that takes months to digest, so just step back and take a breath. You're likely still cycling, so just be patient.[quote]
I have suspected the EA/PA for many months now and have had some time to digest it. I do know that it will be very hard to see them out as a couple though. Im not looking forward to that.
[quote]But I would love to get some satisfaction with a face to face with OM.
That's not satisfaction, it's revenge, and it will not help you get to where you need to be. In fact it'll likely set you way back on your journey.
I completely agree. That was a knee jerk emotional response that I think most people have when they find out this type on news.
100% of churchgoers are sinners. Some try to assign higher and lower values to certain sins, but that's of our own making, in God's eyes all sins are equally bad. I'm not sure why to some people an affair is a deal-killer, Christ said that if you think it in your mind it's just as sinful as if you committed it, and what married person (whether WAS or LBS) has not at least fantasized about an affair?
Also agree about the sinners, myself included. As to why its a deal killer for me, this is the most hurtful thing that someone can do to another. Also, one of the reasons S says she is filing for D is that I didn't make enough money to suit her. I did not provide the lifestyle she feels she deserves.
Fair enough. So if she came back, whats to say she would not leave again. What she is doing right now is exactly how her and I got together when we first started dating. She was done with her boyfriend at the time and started pursuing me. She went back to him 3 times before she finally left for good. The reason she finally left for good is because she felt that she had a pretty good chance with me.
Same pattern as before. That should have been my cue to run like the wind. However, I have never loved anyone like I have loved her.
The thing that gets me though is, she was brought up Catholic and we go to church every Sunday. OM is also Catholic. So now, two supposedly God fearing individuals, have committed adultery and could seemingly care less.
What would you all do about OM, particularly him and his kids coming over to our home while I am not there?
Nothing. OM is a symptom of your marital problems, not the cause. Any interaction you attempt with OM is just going to make your sitch worse. Possibly much worse. It's not unheard of for that to end in restraining orders and nights in jail.
Okay, but we are still living in the same house. I for damn sure do not want him there while I am still living there. If that's wrong then I have more issues than I thought.
As always AnotherStander, thank you for pointing out the flaws in my thinking. I do truly appreciate it. It helps me understand better what we are going through.
I would like to here from more of you here if you have the time to respond.
BKS
Sorry for the QUOTES on my last post. I am still getting use to them
BKS
When my H found out about my A, he sent OM a text and told him I was all his!
BKS,
I also live in NY and we are a no-fault state so the A has no bearing.
When my H found out about my A, he sent OM a text and told him I was all his!
How did that affect you when he texted that to the OM?
Did that make you look at things differently or feel differently?
Thanks LTH,
BKS
UGH...I did this when OM was confirmed. Curious to see what bug has to say from the WAS perspective.
I remember feeling a couple of things, first I was sad that H didn't think I was worth fighting for because I had fought for him for years prior to getting in an A. Second, I thought "Oh great, now I won't have either of them" because OM and I had broken it off a few days before. However, I had ended it because we weren't spending that much time together and he felt so guilty when we did it wasn't worth the chance at ruining my M. Then, H found out anyway.
NMMistakes,
Were you sorry that you did text OM? It sounds like you wish you wouldn't have done it? I would love to send a text like that at an opportune moment. However, I don't think its going to have a positive effect on my situation. Just like bashing his face in would momentarily make me feel better but, the subsequent jail time and restraining order would be detrimental to all my efforts thus far. Trust me, I know better.
Thanks LTH,
Thanks for being so candid with us LBS's. Your point of view helps me understand my MLCer more clearly.
Here is a question for you all.
My S doesn't know that I know about OM. What is the best way to handle this new development when I get back home in a couple of days?
Should I just keep my mouth shut and carry on AsIf nothing has changed? Knowing about OM doesn't really change anything anyway. It just stung when I found out although I highly suspected OM for the last few months. It did help me become more detached because now, I know that there is no immediate hope that she will want to R. Knowing that there is not immediate hope for R helps keep me moving forward with my life.
BKS
It didn't even feel that good when I did it. I was just hurt and confused. I did a bunch of the no no stuff in that state that I now wish I hadn't. I think it did more harm that good really. It just made my W think she had done too much damage and that it wasn't fixable. Also opened them up to be guilt free and make their A official, now with my blessing.
From most of what I have seen on the boards, your bringing up that you know about OM is not going to be very productive. If its not a deal breaker for you, then just work on being a better H and detatch. Wish I would have done this, as I had suspected of OM and just let emotions take over when it was confirmed.
Thanks NoMore,
I agree with you. I will refrain from saying anything for the time being, however, I reserve the right to change that decision at anytime.
I was away at work when I found out for sure. That helped because it gave me time to calm down and compose myself.
Nomore, you are an example of why this BB is so great. By sharing our situations, we can learn what works and what doesn't. Thank you for your insight.
BKS
These boards and sharing definitely helps trying to find your way in situations where you thought you were alone.
Its definitely up to you how you deal with OM and when to reveal. My only comment would be to prepare yourself for that time and try to make sure its a decision and not a reaction. It will be tough because there is a ton of emotion that will come with it, but if you can pull it off you will probably be better off in the long run.
In my sitch, I acted out of pure emotion and broke almost every rule in the first few hours after discussing with the W. I might not be in as deep as I am now if I had just walked away and come back and dealt with things rationally.
Here is a question for you all.
My S doesn't know that I know about OM. What is the best way to handle this new development when I get back home in a couple of days?
Should I just keep my mouth shut and carry on AsIf nothing has changed? Knowing about OM doesn't really change anything anyway. It just stung when I found out although I highly suspected OM for the last few months. It did help me become more detached because now, I know that there is no immediate hope that she will want to R. Knowing that there is not immediate hope for R helps keep me moving forward with my life.
I agree with NMM. It is your choice so do what feels right for you. However, it isn't going to change things and may make them worse. She will also be very likely to misinterpret things you do as the 'new you' as manipulative (thinking you are only doing them to get her back). There will be a time where you bring it up to her, just decide carefully when you want that to be. Also, the benefit of not having thrown it right out there is that you will be able to be less emotional when you do talk about it.
BKS,
I agree with NMM and LBH.
Hold the horses on this one! It won’t make any difference if you bring this up now, in a week or a month.
At the same time I want to address this:
It did help me become more detached because now, I know that there is no immediate hope that she will want to R.
How do you know there’s no immediate hope?
I have seen quite a few Rs with OM/OW dissolve – if and when nobody knows so I do not see why this changes anything. I can understand if it changes your look on W but it shouldn’t change your hope!
Just my 2C
All the best
F
F is right. There were times that I truly wanted to work on the M even when I was involved with OM. I know that sounds ridiculous but it is true. I didn't let him (OM) go because I didn't have much faith in things working out long-term with H at that point but I honestly wanted to work on it.
F is right. There were times that I truly wanted to work on the M even when I was involved with OM. I know that sounds ridiculous but it is true. I didn't let him (OM) go because I didn't have much faith in things working out long-term with H at that point but I honestly wanted to work on it.
Was there any thing H could have done at that point, or did you just need your space to figure things out?
LTH and F,
Thanks for the advice. I will bite my tongue on this one.
You are both right and I know saying anything about OM will not serve to bring her closer but only push her away.
I am so thankful for this site and all of its members. It helps me stay focused on DBing when all I want to do is yell and say to her, "what the Hell are you thinking". Thank you for keeping me grounded.
Our first court date regarding D is on Tuesday. I will let you know how it goes.
BKS
H everyone, I have been following along and have one comment with regards to possible confrontation or interaction with OM.
DR does not get into tactically plays much because Michelle is a fan of focusing on yourself and becoming the husband only a fool would leave. And I think I agree with that, as you all seem to.
But it is interesting to note that some other programs would have you message the OM so that he knows you are aware. This serves several purposes.
1. It can start the end of the A if OM never wanted something serious. This makes it all serious and sometimes too much for the OM.
2. It bursts the bubble they are both living in.
3. This last point is clever. Usually the wife has painted a picture of this loveless marriage to the OM to relieve his guilt. By making him aware that you love your wife and want to work it out with her, you make him wonder if everything his affair partner has told him about you and your marriage is all lies. Most OM don't have much of a consience but if he does, this could make him back off.
At the end of the day, it is your decision. I think if it were me I would wait a little and see how it plays out. Just don't let it come out in an emotional way during an argument or you may look weak and seem to consent to it as you put it.
SM34,
Thanks for the reply. Very good points you are making. I have considered both of those ideas. I believe that the right thing to do at the moment is to just keep my mouth shut.
If the time arises where I think that a confrontation is warranted, I will confront them.
As of right now, I think it would do more damage than good. I still think my W is done with the M. If anything that I have done up until this point has been working to make her think twice about her decisions, I don't want to backslide on my hard fought for gains. If any gains have been made that is.
BKS
NMM,
I have thought a lot about this and I am having a hard time putting it into words. When I first ended the A, I believe I was ready to make my M work, but that is easy to say now and maybe I would have needed space no matter what.
I understand how it is hard to be fully committed to someone that you cannot trust, that has just betrayed you in the worst possible way. Now, switch that around and ask yourself how easy it is for the WAS, who left because they felt they were out of options, and think about how hard it is for them to give up what they now believe is the only person who can make them happy, go back to a M that they felt was sucking the life out of them and commit 100% to a person who won't commit 100% to them because of what 'they' did. It isn't easy.
I personally do not believe you can save your M until you get to the point where you are both fully committed. You may make a little progress if only one is, or if one is half in/half out, but you will not save it.
I believe you have to be willing to take that risk. If you are there anyway, giving it half a chance, you will still be hurt if something goes wrong. If you are making the decision to stay, you need to be all in.
When H and I were in MC, I originally wanted to be there. However, I then found out that he went to a lawyer to 'find out what his rights were' and that spoke volumes to me. I spent the next 18-24 months going to counseling but I no longer cared. At that point, I started regular contact with OM again and it lasted a long time.
If you are going to try to R, you have to be willing to commit to the M and be willing to take the risk of being hurt again. Also, leaving it up to the WAS to prove that she is willing to do what it takes, not leave you again, not cheat, etc. goes back to saying that what they did is so much worse than what you did. They are also taking a risk that they will be back in the same M that they couldn't handle in the first place. It can be a vicious circle!
Thanks for the insight LTH. In you sitch did H acknowledge your fears about entering back into M that may revert back to the samr as it was? If not, would it have helped easy those fears at all?
BKS, I think your choice at this point is best. No real gains could from it at this point, though you can continue to evaluate the sitch and make choice in the future. But once that genie is out of the bottle, there is no turning back.
LTH,
Very interesting insight you for have. Thank you for that. I agree with you that it is very hard for both MLC/WAS and LBS. Both have valid thoughts and feelings as you have pointed out. My W said recently that she would not be able to withstand a financial setback that we knew was coming. She was right and now we find ourselves in D. She said, "who would want to go through that (financial trouble) again?"
I said I totally agreed with her. I understood what she was saying. Nobody wants to struggle financially. Sometimes life is that way though.
The kicker is that we are so close to a breakthrough on the job front. It seems a shame to me that we are this close and have fought so hard to get to a place where we will be financially secure, just to quit the race right before the finish line.
This is indicative of just how hard this has been for her and I totally get that. No one would give up and break up their family if they didn't truly believe that there is no other option.
I know MLC and the possible onset menopause can be a hormonal nightmare. Its like they say, some make through and some don't.
Today is our first court date regarding D. I don't think there is anything new for me to do. I will just try to stay on the high road and ride this train wreck over the cliff with her.
I will love her all the way to the end and hopefully we will find our happiness, with our without each other.
LTH, your insight is invaluable to all of us. Thank you so much and please keep posting.
NMM, you are correct. No gains at this point. The genie will stay in the bottle for now.
BKS
I have been noticing a lot of the teenager version of my wife lately. She has been flipping me the bird a lot lately and calling me a Mother F'er.
I don't give her a reaction to her antics. I just carry on as it everything was as it should be.
Any advice or thoughts on her behavior? I think it is normal for the MLCer. What do you think?
She has also been pushing hard to negotiate a settlement for the D so we don't have to fight it our in court. I totally agree with her but, what she is asking me for financially would have me living out of my car.
BKS
I have been noticing a lot of the teenager version of my wife lately. She has been flipping me the bird a lot lately and calling me a Mother F'er.
I don't give her a reaction to her antics. I just carry on as it everything was as it should be.
Any advice or thoughts on her behavior? I think it is normal for the MLCer. What do you think?
One thing comes to my mind! Tell her to stop this behavior or you will simply leave the communication. If she can’t talk or communicate in a decent manner and with proper language then don’t talk to her!
How would you react if your neighbor did this to you?
She has also been pushing hard to negotiate a settlement for the D so we don't have to fight it our in court. I totally agree with her but, what she is asking me for financially would have me living out of my car.
Give her what is demanded by law! No more – no less! Let this be solved by lawyers and law – nobody and nothing else! Get the legal advice you need on this one and do NOT make any kind of deal with her! If she wants to go down this road then make her do the work on a settlement! Take her work to a lawyer and get advice!
IMHO it is of outmost importance for you NOT to give in to any of this because you hope for R….focus on you! Be fair, but do not give in!
Now I have said it several times – I hope it gets through!
Next time she comes at you with this simply look her straight in the eyes and say something like: W, I won’t stand in your way, but I do not feel like the two of us negotiating like this. If you have a proposition then put it on paper and I will take my time to work it through and give you my opinion. Until you have done this I would prefer that you don’t bring this subject up anymore since I am not about to change my mind.
Take the paper and get legal advice!
That’s what I would do – perhaps VETs see it differently and I hope one of them will drop by!
F
Thanks Fartiltre,
Its been a while since I have posted. Not much new. Had a couple of court dates and divorce settlement discussions. She has settled down a bit as far as her negativity. Maybe she is being nice for the holidays. Who knows...I don't really care anymore.
I have confirmed that she I indeed having a PA with OM (Frank). She went out last night and told the kids she was going to Rochester to see some friends from college. Im sure she might have gone there but then ended up with OM and stayed the night with him and had sex.
Don't ask me how I got this info because I cant divulge it at the moment just in case she has been tracking this site.
Its a hard pill to swallow but I no longer consider her my wife. I only consider her as my childrens mother.
I am hopeful that we will be divorced by March 4th now. That is when our next court date is. I cant hold on to the hope that things will ever get better and for my own sanity, I have to move on and start looking for happiness elsewhere.
I will try to post more later.
Happy New Year!
I have to move on and start looking for happiness elsewhere.
That would be inside yourself, the only place to truly find it.
I am sorry things didn't work out and that divorce is coming.
Thanks LTH,
I agree with you and thanks. happiness does come from within. I am sorry too it didn't work out but I am growing more content with it everyday.
B
Hello Everyone!
I just want to take a moment and say thank you to everyone here. This site helped me get through the most difficult time in my life.
Although I am not standing for my marriage any longer, I will continue to check in here to see how everyone is doing.
My wish is that your M's will be one of the lucky ones that make it through to the other side of the tunnel. The hope and guidance that this site gives so freely of, probably helped save my life and keeps me from giving up on the notion that two people can make each other happy. Even through our most trying time in our marriages.
God Bless all of you!
BKS
Hello Everyone,
I just wanted to stop by and update my situation.
Our divorce is final. I moved out of the house about 3 months ago and I am renting a place until I can buy my own place, which I am working on as we speak.
I have a couple of questions for you all...
Now that I am out and on my own, I feel pretty good about life in general. I am still struggling financially to pay the bills but, I am headed in a positive direction to fix that.
I still hold resentment towards my Ex for what our kids have to go through but, it is what it is now, and they are adjusting to it. It still deeply saddens me that my kids don't have their family unit intact anymore. We are making the best of it though.
My Ex is still antagonistic towards me. I thought that she would settle down after the divorce but she is seemingly "pissed off" at me still.
My question is this.
How long does it typically take for a WAS to settle down and become content with the divorce?
Keep in mind, this was her decision to leave the marriage.
Hello Everyone,
I just wanted to stop by and update my situation.
Our divorce is final. I moved out of the house about 3 months ago and I am renting a place until I can buy my own place, which I am working on as we speak.
I have a couple of questions for you all...
Now that I am out and on my own, I feel pretty good about life in general. I am still struggling financially to pay the bills but, I am headed in a positive direction to fix that.
I still hold resentment towards my Ex for what our kids have to go through but, it is what it is now, and they are adjusting to it. It still deeply saddens me that my kids don't have their family unit intact anymore. We are making the best of it though.
My Ex is still antagonistic towards me. I thought that she would settle down after the divorce but she is seemingly "pissed off" at me still.
My question is this.
How long does it typically take for a WAS to settle down and become content with the divorce?
Keep in mind, this was her decision to leave the marriage.
Keeping for posterity
M46 W45 T12 M10 S9 D4
BD 2/13
DBing 4/13 IC 4/13
W sleeps D4 rm 5/13
Couples MC, W wears ring again 7/12/13
W said she wants D at MC 7/26/13
Received letter from W attorney 8/7/13, D pending