Here is my old thread...felt I needed a new title:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...139#Post2241139Well, yesterday was a DISASTER! it looks like I have completely blown all the progress I have made over the last 5 months.
W wants a D….its the first time she has said it and she is MAD as hell!
Here is what happened:
I got ‘home’ about 5:30 and she was cooking dinner, we chatted about the weekend ahead and did small talk, and eventually the topic of where I would be staying at the end of next week came up.
I said I would be moving back in …she was shocked and became angry v. quickly, saying I had agreed that we would separate, and was going back on what was agreed .She was shaking her head and saying there was no way I was moving back in.
I said she knew I had arranged accommodation for only 3 weeks and didn’t have anywhere else to go. It didnt wash…she never once entertained the fact that I might move back in…( although I don’t know where she expected me to live!) She didn’t seem to have thought it through at all, but the thought of me moving back in appalled her.
She was shaking her head and pacing and asked about further on…. And I made the BIG error of saying I wanted to move back in permanently to co-parent……she freaked!!. I was trying to be assertive and said I had thought about it and it was best for me and our two boys that I move back in…..She Double Freaked.
Things escalated quickly….I should have stopped there and walked away to gather my thoughts but no……I tried to remain calm and compounded things by saying that she could move out as it was her that was unhappy……She immediately said she was going to see a L and wanted a D!...She was livid!!!Raging!!!....something I have never seen before in her…she was haking….her whole body!!!
She said that a friend had warned her that I might suggest such a thing but she had replied she knew me better than that and there was no way I would be so vindictive or ever say it….(I guess she feels BETRAYED!)
I then started to backtrack and try to reverse the damage but the damage was done! I apologised and said it was a stupid thing to suggest and I would look for a place to stay immediately. I apologised over and over as she vented.
I started to plead etc…I said I was scared to move out for 6 months and felt that we would just drift apart.
As she vented she said I had undone all the good things I had done over the past weeks/months…
and the upshot is she wants a D…….
I have hurt her…no question…I have messed up… i will have to move out for at least 6 month or she will D me……I am devastated.
Other things:
I panicked and completely lost it. I did all the things I am not supposed to do…except beg and cry.
I tried to reason, tried to get a raincheck about how she had felt about me over the last 3 weeks, tried to get her to commit even in the tiniest way to work on the marriage, I brought up old R talks and stated that I thought she had never once tried to work on the marriage only ‘complained’, never took any action…..she didn’t see it like that
I brought up the fact she doesn’t wear wedding ring anymore and had started to tell her friends about the separation (she has told the kids teachers, which was new to me).
I said that everything she did seemed to be easing me down the road to separation and divorce and I was scared.( wedding rings/separation/etc etc)
Stupidly I said several times that I was doing things ‘the books tell me I shouldn’t be doing’…she looked at me with pity
She vented:
How she had bent over backwards over the last 3 weeks to make sure I saw the kids as often as possible.
How to had been hard for her with a full time job and the kids…I have only had the kids one day and night in 3 weeks (because of accommodation limitations)…I had it easy.
There was a load of other stuff but its hard to remember it all and take it in.
She rang this morning at 7:30am (saying kids wanted to speak to me)
We had R talk and revisited yesterdays trauma.
She still feels v v hurt, 'like she dont know me anymore' ' she said she had 'never once regretted marrying me, but yesterday felt for the first time that she did regret it'
i apologised over and over and tried to explain that I misguidedly was trying to get more control over the separation. How I wished i hadnt moved out for just 3 weeks and had something more permanent sorted out. How I was scared of 6 months separation but knew that 3 weeks would not be enough.
A couple of positives amongst the mayhem:
Last night she said that in the 3 weeks of separation she had felt happier and that she had even thought that ‘sometime in the future’ we might get some MC….that was kicked into touch last night.
She also said without stating it clearly that she had had thoughts about a ‘time frame’ for separation.
These two things mean to me: that she had had thoughts about working on the marriage, ‘if she is happier’...ill take that as a positive.
Seriously quit apologizing for her histerics and her intentional misunderstandings (when she twists what you say to fit her agenda)
What you said is done, there is no taking it back, and you already apologized more than you should have.
With a WAW somehow apologies only make them angrier, don't ask me to explain it, I can't. Man up to your comments, but quit apologizing it. If she brings it up again say, yeah I shouldn't have said that, and change the subject! If she won't drop it just say in a calm voice (very important). I know it was wrong, and change the subject again. If she keeps pushing WALK AWAY.
It some weird way the more you apologize for it the worse the offense will get in her head, and the bigger the grudge will grow.
I'll read the your old thread but from what I can tell she is hell bent on making you the bad guy. At this rate she'll never take you back.
What's done is done. Don't let her drag you into another argument. You can leave the conversation/fight. I wouldn't apologize anymore. Be strong!
I am looking for an apartment today....I went round to use our computer and asked her to help....it has helped defuse the situation and we had a big hug...I asked if she still 'hated' me ...she said she could never 'hate' me....
Defuse and move on... we are also discussing access to kids and boundaries and finances...more later
That's another one, asking her if she hated you just made things worse.
Just follow this simple mantra:
"if she has to ask herself if she loves you, she'll most likely say no"
To a woman the simple fact that she doesn't have an immediate gut response of "YES!" indicates to her she doesn't love you. You asking her makes her ask herself if she does, and since things aren't 100% good that she'll say no. Even if she is only 1% unsure that little percent is enough to make her say no.
So don't ever ask her for a relationship status again, EVER.
This is from personal experience so some may disagree but....
Let's say she was at 50% yesterday, and reached 75% today.
Then you ask how she feels, that 25% percent she doesn't have will make her feel unsure and then she'll find herself at 0%.
For a WAW it's all or nothing.
Quit trying to get temperature checks. If you want to see where you stand just watch her actions, they're worth more than her words anyway.
For a WAW , its all or nothingFor the last few years, she has said that for her love is 'all or nothing' ....
I hear what you say....I will not apologise anymore or ask for forgiveness...if she brings up yesterday I will say I have apologised and would like to move forward.
We need to let the wounds heal a bit. She can see I am looking for a place to live....we both need some sleep
Thanks for your support!! It helps a lot.
I will try to measure every sentence I utter to her, to really think about what i am doing/saying
I feel a strange sense of liberty about having decided to move out...I am detaching little by little
180s, GAL and LRT, no raincheck, no pursuing, no pressure, dont be needy, change to the person she fell in love with......love my two sons
It's no problem, feels good to know it may help.
As for moving out whether it's right or wrong I'm not good at that.
What I can say is to make the most awesome bachelor pad you can afford. So much that W wonders if other women will be impressed. Doesn't mean you will be bringing in other women, but if she thinks you could it'll bring up your value in her eyes. If you get a dingy place, and then keep it looking like a mess it'll just push her away.
Oh and while you're away don't be constantly available to her, build a little mystery.
It is going to take several weeks for the dust to settle, to repair the damage.
We had another R talk again last night and she said ‘I can’t see us ever reconciling’
She also said ‘ the day before she was feeling happy’ …..meaning she had had a good few weeks (since separation)….but now felt as if the ‘life had been sucked out of her’, she is very unhappy again.
She kept comparing how happy she was before the fight to how unhappy she was feeling now.
Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see...i guess
I have to take all this as meaning….she was good and feeling a bit better about us (or at least the sitch) until the big fight….so when I separate permanently, hopefully these more positive feelings will return.
The bad news is that I can’t disappear overnight and it might take a couple of weeks to find an apartment.
So she probably will not be positive for a few weeks or even months
One positive is that she did not mention D.
I also learnt that she thought our M problems started 6 years ago and she has felt lonely for a v long time (because of my lack of communication).
She believes ‘that love is a feeling’, not a choice or decision….which is bad news…..she is in love with her hurt and negative feelings towards me…and of course she is going with what she feels….i need to get rid of those negative feelings
She also still feels very guilty (and selfish….her words) because she is breaking up the family.
Her best friend said that she would never break up the family , no matter how unhappy she was, ‘for the sake of the kids’
Decided to get an IC.... I have asked for a consultation....to make sure they are pro marriage and maybe pro MWD.
Trouble is I cant afford to have a session every week.
Oh and while you're away don't be constantly available to her, build a little mystery.
W has been making the kids available to me this last few weeks...they couldnt come round to my accommodation the last two weekends...When I move out it will change...they will do sleepovers at my place, some weekdays when I am at home and some weekend nights. She wants some QT away from me and the kids and I want to see some of them....it will be difficult to LRT
Today I did a half marathon in training and weighed in at 162lbs...I am looking trim and healthy,....just need a lot of sleep and to switch my brain off.
Did a little bit of small talk with W no R talk.....I dont think we will R talk for a good few weeks now
Correction, you won't have R talk for a very LONG time
Just don't bring it up unless she does. It only sets you back and does nothing. I know you want to soothe your fears, but it'll just make things worse. If you have to have R talk, the relationship is not good enough. That's how she thinks.
In her mind a good relationship should not have its temperature checked frequently.
Think of it like checking a fever, you don't stick a thermometer in every hour of everyday to see if you are healthy. Usually when you do it's because you are confirming bad news.
Trust me when she's ready she'll come to you.
Oh and her saying she doesn't know if you two will ever fix it, that's how she feels today. Tomorrow she may love you, these feelings will fluctuate.
GB90...thanks again.
In a matter of days/weeks she will have what she wants...separation
From now on the only thing to work on is me...and in particular my relationship skills....over the last few weeks...4/1 to 4/27 I was doing what was working....even if it was only a small extent.
I have cut the tether to her and released her....now I concentrate on me.
I have 3 days at a Congress with work colleagues who I dont see very often...I will GAL happily..good food and some drink, combined with work and play.
Wednesday night I will be back home trying to find a small house. W wants me to get a 2 bedroom place with a small outside area for the kids to play...I'm happy to do that...she is putting some of her savings into it.
The nights are so hard....I just cant sleep ....all the stupid shortsighted mistakes i have made rear their ugly heads.
Today was hard at the Congress.
W and I work in the medical profession. Me for a multi national vendor and she in a hospital ....we both have 20 year careers in the profession and lots of (dozens) mutual friends/acquaintances.
She is not at the Congress because she has to look after the kids....but lots of people have come up to me today and asked about W and the kids...it is so hard to smile and lie that everything is great...I feel gutted inside, also guilt and shame.
I think her primary love language is : Words of Affirmation…..especially ‘I love you’….
Her secondary love language is: physical touch.
All my childhood: although my siblings and I had loving parents, they never said ‘I Love You’ either to each other (in earshot) or to us…..they also weren’t big on hugs or kisses or any physical touches.
It is hardly surprising then that I have difficulty expressing either of these and instead my Primary Love language is ‘Quality Time’ with ‘Words of Affirmation’ a close second…I was always seeking approval from my parents (and W)
This is also expressed in passive/aggressive behaviour as written in No More Mr Nice Guy.
It is impossible for me to express my W’s love languages without overtly pursuing….so I have to wait it out…… until she decides to work on the marriage…but at least I know now.
So I am learning about love languages and my own behavioural faults and can only try to rectify them…WORK on ME.
To me, her other big complaints ‘ no emotional connection’ ‘ no communication’ – stem from these three.
An empty love tank and my passive/aggressive behaviour (which made her not complain)…led to the ‘no emotional connection’ ‘ no communication’
So what can I do:
First get rid of the passive/aggressive behaviour….also let her heal, have patience (the hardest part),no more raincheck, no more R talks, no more ‘I have changed’. Just try to be more like the man she fell in love with.
Hopefully she will come towards me
First get rid of the passive/aggressive behaviour….also let her heal, have patience (the hardest part),no more raincheck, no more R talks, no more ‘I have changed’. Just try to be more like the man she fell in love with.
Hopefully she will come towards me
I'm working on the same issues! I know it's tough. Try to sleep... I find the days are much easier fulfilling for ME if I go to bed a little earlier than I would in the past. This gives me a little time to get my brain to shutup!
I now fully realise that my Primary Love Language is Quality Time:
This has been lacking for me ever since we had children.
Before we would do everything together, afterwards it semeed we never did anything together.
My job is one factor spending 80 -100 nights a year away from home - this obviously doesnt help.
Another is a lack of babysitters so she would go out with the girls and I would stay at home or vice versa. When we did go out together i really enjoyed it.
Also in the evening watching TV , I was happy to watch it and not talk, but she would always dictate what we watched. I am a TV snob and resented some the 'crap' TV she watched , but in a passive aggressive way, outwardly accepting, inside resenting.
Another example is bedtime: she likes to read and then sleep she stopped cuddling me.
Also she never set boundaries for the boys in the morning. They were free to wake up and run into our room and jump into our bed. I wanted QT with her even if it was for only 10 minutes. We used to talk for hours together in bed before kids.
i also remember complaining over the years that we 'never get any QT together'
Mine's QT also. Hs is affirmation and acts of service. Once you have the quiet period (giving her, her space) and you tap into her LL slowly introduce it to her.
I overcommitted myself to giving him an affirmation everyday! Now it comes out naturally in conversation.
I recently discovered acts of service and he now lingers more at my (our) house.
I also discovered we didn't have emotional intimacy (connection). I had pushed him away when he would talk about his family or work. It's been months, but he finally brings up stuff. We "talk". not about R, but we talk...
i have decided to try to speak at least one of her Love Languages:
Words of Affirmation: I need to do it consistently but not too much and not in the wrong way so : NO ILY....but 'I really appreciate it that....'
It cant do any harm...
I think her secondary love languaage is physical touch: holding hands, and kisses are out of the question but shoulder rubs, foot rubs, and occasional touches should be ok.
I would like to just give her the 5 Love Languages but I guess that will have to wait.
Affirmation- compliment her outfit, that dress fits you really well, I love your hair like that.
PT-they don't have to be sexual. put your hand on her shoulder when your talking to her. put your hand on her lower back (waist) if your close to her.
Take your time with this, it's not a race.
Thanks VP!!
Its great to get feedback from the 'other side'.
I have complemented her these last 5 months 'you look hot in those jogging pants' ' you look great in that dress'....when she is going out with friends.
Though I also remember (prebomb)negating complemen by sometimes saying ' you look great but i prefer the other dress...being honest...isn't always the best way...
a complement with a put down is worse than no complement at all.
Her favourite affirmation is to be told ILU...something I am/was useless at....but I cant say it now (pursuing) and it is gut wrenching.
Also,I think I didn't appreciate her enough for all the things she did for/with the kids when I was away - all the things necessary to make the household run like clockwork.
I was good at acts of service , getting the groceries, washing the laundry, even ironing...the wrong love language!
I feel strangely calm after reading the 5 Love Languages. I should have read it 5 months ago….I should have gone to see an IC 5 months ago.
I would love to give 5LL to W and ask her to read it through without comment and then for us to discuss it….What do you think??...
I will ask my IC tomorrow if it is a good idea…..
Words of Affirmation ( especially ILY) and Physical touch:
The two things she has consistently complained have been missing through the last 5 years.
I feel I have been appreciative sometimes , but not consistently, and I do not say ILY ….my parents never said it to me….in my last relationship (14 years) I never said it….I even find it difficult to say it to my kids.
Physical touch…she wanted cuddles on the sofa and I ignored it , she wanted shoulder rubs, and I gave them grudgingly…she wanted foot rubs and I said no (her feet aren’t particularly attractive but if you love someone,,,,just do it…right!)
So how to do some of these things in the last few days before we separate (and after)….
Any advice would be welcome from WAWs or VETS
I'm almost a year into this so technically I'm not a VET since I haven't DBed my R, however....
In the past 6months I have made changes that now feel natural to me. I NEVER complimented people and was always negative! If something bad happened, it ruined my entire day. I complained about everything. Heck! I didn't want to be around me!
Now things are very different.
I practice the LL with my friends and family, not just H. I need to let everyone close to me I love them and I don't need to say ILY but I can show it in 5 ways.
I often ask people for advice and take it! Before I felt as though I was showing a sign of weakness by asking for advice. I compliment people when before I was afraid I sounded fake. I look at the positive after something neg happens. I see it as a moment and look past it.
Life is so much better for me now. And it will only get better if I continue with this new attitude.
Make the changes gradually and they will sink in!