Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/10/12 07:46 PM
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/10/12 07:50 PM
Sad those are all nice 180's and I have been doing those 180's myself for over 1 1/2 years and she even said I see all the stuff you're doing and its to late. So I conquered those 180's that you mentioned. I had struggled there big time. My current 180's are anxiety, trust, snooping, listening etc...
KD I don't get you sorry. But to answer your question about telling me to get a mediator I would say the same thing I tell my W. That is not the path I would like to take for our family. If that is the path my W wants to take then I have no control over that and I will let her make that tough decision.
KD I don't get you sorry. But to answer your question about telling me to get a mediator I would say the same thing I tell my W. That is not the path I would like to take for our family. If that is the path my W wants to take then I have no control over that and I will let her make that tough decision.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/10/12 07:58 PM
OK, NM... Don't get a mediator.
What else would you like to do to force your W to continue to be M to you?
What else would you like to do to force your W to continue to be M to you?
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/10/12 08:00 PM
KD lets summarize what my goal is.
My goal is to keep my family together. The way to do this is to change my behaviors. I'm counseling myself and trying to balance not being a doormat but being a good friend and father during this process. Not easy.
I'm trying to not get anxious about stuff I can't control. I still need work here but I'm trying..
You tell me to give my W what she wants or feels she wants. That doesn't make sense cuz what she feels she wants is a D. I'm not going to promote that in anyway.
Rememeber one of my objectives is to get back under the same roof and start having dialogue. Believe it or not I slept over Sat, Sun, and Monday night and it wasn't akward for me at all. I don't know if it was akward for her because we don't talk R. I just was a helpful dad and friend to her. I did hug her a few times about the dog but she was an absolute mess. I was careful not to over do this either because I didn't want her to think my hugs were for me. They truly were for her. I swapped to rubbing back when she was crying and just letting her know she was a perfect dog owner etc..
So I am trying to work on myself. I do struggle here I admit it. I'm in limbo and not busy enough with my work.
I'm trying to not push her away emotionally with boundaries but trying to have some boundaries so I don't get wiped out emotionally. Not easy at all.
I believe I have been giving my W what she wants which is space. I don't question a thing she does or ask her a thing she does.
Am I missing something
My goal is to keep my family together. The way to do this is to change my behaviors. I'm counseling myself and trying to balance not being a doormat but being a good friend and father during this process. Not easy.
I'm trying to not get anxious about stuff I can't control. I still need work here but I'm trying..
You tell me to give my W what she wants or feels she wants. That doesn't make sense cuz what she feels she wants is a D. I'm not going to promote that in anyway.
Rememeber one of my objectives is to get back under the same roof and start having dialogue. Believe it or not I slept over Sat, Sun, and Monday night and it wasn't akward for me at all. I don't know if it was akward for her because we don't talk R. I just was a helpful dad and friend to her. I did hug her a few times about the dog but she was an absolute mess. I was careful not to over do this either because I didn't want her to think my hugs were for me. They truly were for her. I swapped to rubbing back when she was crying and just letting her know she was a perfect dog owner etc..
So I am trying to work on myself. I do struggle here I admit it. I'm in limbo and not busy enough with my work.
I'm trying to not push her away emotionally with boundaries but trying to have some boundaries so I don't get wiped out emotionally. Not easy at all.
I believe I have been giving my W what she wants which is space. I don't question a thing she does or ask her a thing she does.
Am I missing something
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/10/12 08:02 PM
KD am I missing something here or is your viewpoint different from DB.
I am not trying to force my W to be M to me. If she wants to move on and D me then she can. I can't control that. From what I learned and read on this forum and DB is not to fly off the handle with emotions and get a L or mediator. Let her do the work on that. Let her set it up and invite me to the session.
Again am I missing something?
I am not trying to force my W to be M to me. If she wants to move on and D me then she can. I can't control that. From what I learned and read on this forum and DB is not to fly off the handle with emotions and get a L or mediator. Let her do the work on that. Let her set it up and invite me to the session.
Again am I missing something?
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/10/12 08:06 PM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
Am I missing something
Yes...
.....
.....
anything coming to you, yet?
Let's summarize your W's goals, shall we?
Your W does not currently want to be with you.
Your W plans to no longer be M to you.
Your W plans to D you.
Who do you think is going to win, if we brought the two of you to a table and put these things there, to discuss?
Bud... she can't miss you if you won't go away...
The more you pursue... even in your PA way... the more she will keep running...
Sometimes... you just need to own your failures and your mistakes and move on...
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/10/12 08:08 PM
I'll leave you alone, now...
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/10/12 08:20 PM
You don't have to leave me alone I'm trying to understand. I understand the don't miss you if you don't away. But man I'm away. I was around this Easter for the kids and then my dog passed.
How do you see me pursuing? So I understand. What does "PA" way mean.
By saying "own your own failures and your mistakes and move on" you r suggesting I go for a D?
FYI the only time I saw my W change her attitude toward me and our R was when she talked to a friend that told her to think long and hard about D. That wasn't me bro.
Yes my W wants a D, doesn't want to be M.
I don't get what your suggesting I do. Have zero contact with her?? I truly try to limit the contact with her man. its not easy with 2 kids.
How do you see me pursuing? So I understand. What does "PA" way mean.
By saying "own your own failures and your mistakes and move on" you r suggesting I go for a D?
FYI the only time I saw my W change her attitude toward me and our R was when she talked to a friend that told her to think long and hard about D. That wasn't me bro.
Yes my W wants a D, doesn't want to be M.
I don't get what your suggesting I do. Have zero contact with her?? I truly try to limit the contact with her man. its not easy with 2 kids.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/10/12 08:26 PM
no, I'll be back... I have to go GAL... D9 has an event this eve that I have to get ready for and go to...
I just want you to give you some time to think about things...
I just want you to give you some time to think about things...
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/10/12 08:30 PM
Sorry you confused me even more
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/10/12 08:38 PM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
Rememeber one of my objectives is to get back under the same roof and start having dialogue. Believe it or not I slept over Sat, Sun, and Monday night and it wasn't akward for me at all. I don't know if it was akward for her because we don't talk R. I just was a helpful dad and friend to her. I did hug her a few times about the dog but she was an absolute mess. I was careful not to over do this either because I didn't want her to think my hugs were for me. They truly were for her. I swapped to rubbing back when she was crying and just letting her know she was a perfect dog owner etc..
Re-read this, you are pursuing. You are not giving her the space she is asking for. KD is really trying to help, try to re-read what he posted to you.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/10/12 08:49 PM
Autumn she ASKED me to stay over. What do I say no everytime. I say no sometimes
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/10/12 08:52 PM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
My goal is to keep my family together. The way to do this is to change my behaviors. I'm counseling myself and trying to balance not being a doormat but being a good friend and father during this process. Not easy.
It may be your goal...
It isn't her goal right now.
ANYTHING that goes against her goal, She will see as pursuit , and control.
No body here, will tell you that your goal isn't admirable. It is the goal of almost everyone that posts here.
Your goals are for you, and it is frustrating watching you try and force YOUR goals onto her....
Originally Posted By: netmaster
You tell me to give my W what she wants or feels she wants. That doesn't make sense cuz what she feels she wants is a D. I'm not going to promote that in anyway.
What you don't see, is that by "not promoting it" , you are actually working toward just that.
By placing all of your emphasis on it NOT happening, it is actually creating a nice little warm and fuzzy nesting place for it to hatch....
By you not allowing things to happen as they will....is you once again...trying to control her thoughts and actions.
To control and manipulate her, into making the only decision that YOU feel is the right one for her....
Originally Posted By: netmaster
Rememeber one of my objectives is to get back under the same roof and start having dialogue. Believe it or not I slept over Sat, Sun, and Monday night and it wasn't akward for me at all. I don't know if it was akward for her because we don't talk R. I just was a helpful dad and friend to her. I did hug her a few times about the dog but she was an absolute mess. I was careful not to over do this either because I didn't want her to think my hugs were for me. They truly were for her. I swapped to rubbing back when she was crying and just letting her know she was a perfect dog owner etc..
Not true....
As KD said earlier...
You hugging her, served YOU....
Dis she ask you to hug her ???
And goes against EVERYTHING that you said here \/ \/ \/ \/
Originally Posted By: netmaster
I believe I have been giving my W what she wants which is space. I don't question a thing she does or ask her a thing she does.
One of the things we say here often, is to let your actions speak louder than your words...
What were they saying here ???
Originally Posted By: netmaster
Am I missing something
Are you ??
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/10/12 09:02 PM
Bro my dog died I got nothing out of the hug she was an absolute mess. But I get what your saying.
How am I trying to control her man?? I do all my kids and gal stuff. I only slept there for Easter and dying dog. Only reason and I didn't want to sleep there last night she asked me to cuz she had 2 hours of sleep.
Slap me please
How am I trying to control her man?? I do all my kids and gal stuff. I only slept there for Easter and dying dog. Only reason and I didn't want to sleep there last night she asked me to cuz she had 2 hours of sleep.
Slap me please
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/10/12 11:10 PM
this forum confuses me honestly. I am a doormat. I am figuring that out tonight.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/11/12 12:16 AM
What about this forum confuses you exactly?
Yes, DB is counterintuitive.
It isn't just about only taking care of the kids and GAL...
It isn't simply about detatching although sometimes it can seem like that is the only message.
It is about learning, growing, accepting that we EACH are our own people, inside and outside the context of M.
Net,
I realize that many of the things you do, you do because your W asks you to.
Personally, I think you use the excuse of her asking you things as permission to not own your own choices.
And while I don't know that you are a doormat, you may be on your way to becoming one. You allow yourself to be at her beck and call.
I understand that being more cooperative and agreeable, being her support system, her help, would SEEM like the way to reconciliation.
It could, but at what cost?
It could also be seen as pursuit by our S, and that would push them away most of the time.
Why would we do something that can push them further from us if our goal is reconciliation?
See, counterintuitive.
Neither I or anyone on this forum is saying be a total a$$ either, but you have to find that balance...
Where you are not sucked in to the emotional vortex every time the two of you interact. Where you can say NO if you want to. Where you can be open to growing a R, but open to it while not knowing what the definition of that R is yet.
So yes, you need to detatch. You need to let go of expectations of what each interaction means or doesn't mean.
Maybe the best way for you to look at it right now, is that you guys are friends. And tailor your ACTIONS accordingly.
Would you have hugged a friend multiple times and slept over if their dog passed (I am sorry for that BTW). Would you have switched from hugs to back rubs to make that friend less uncomfortable, or maybe would there have been maybe ONE hug and no more physical contact?
Yes, DB is counterintuitive.
It isn't just about only taking care of the kids and GAL...
It isn't simply about detatching although sometimes it can seem like that is the only message.
It is about learning, growing, accepting that we EACH are our own people, inside and outside the context of M.
Net,
I realize that many of the things you do, you do because your W asks you to.
Personally, I think you use the excuse of her asking you things as permission to not own your own choices.
And while I don't know that you are a doormat, you may be on your way to becoming one. You allow yourself to be at her beck and call.
I understand that being more cooperative and agreeable, being her support system, her help, would SEEM like the way to reconciliation.
It could, but at what cost?
It could also be seen as pursuit by our S, and that would push them away most of the time.
Why would we do something that can push them further from us if our goal is reconciliation?
See, counterintuitive.
Neither I or anyone on this forum is saying be a total a$$ either, but you have to find that balance...
Where you are not sucked in to the emotional vortex every time the two of you interact. Where you can say NO if you want to. Where you can be open to growing a R, but open to it while not knowing what the definition of that R is yet.
So yes, you need to detatch. You need to let go of expectations of what each interaction means or doesn't mean.
Maybe the best way for you to look at it right now, is that you guys are friends. And tailor your ACTIONS accordingly.
Would you have hugged a friend multiple times and slept over if their dog passed (I am sorry for that BTW). Would you have switched from hugs to back rubs to make that friend less uncomfortable, or maybe would there have been maybe ONE hug and no more physical contact?
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/11/12 12:35 AM
Uh oh Net you got Mach and the Cat on you. Ya better pay close attention.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/11/12 01:30 AM
That is the key I don't have balance. I should have hugged her once. I slept there extra night for dog, first night I had to to watch kids.
The balance is where I get hammered and yes the vortex of our interactions. I did Easter night for kids and glad I did
The balance is where I get hammered and yes the vortex of our interactions. I did Easter night for kids and glad I did
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/11/12 02:48 AM
I just don't get how to have balance with 2 small kids and some many activities going on with them. It is so TOUGH. Tonight I coached his team. She was there. After I put them in the car and said goodbye. In other words I tried to go back to separation mode from where I was helping with the dog situation mode. It was a tough transition but I did it.
Nothing against KD posts but they are to cryptic for my dumbass. Cat post I understood more. Maybe they are both telling me the same thing in different ways.
I don't know how to drive more space without being an a$$. Detach when we interact so much together cuz of kids. it seems so impossible. The closet thing I did was that tonight. By putting the kids in the car and saying goodnight.
Nothing against KD posts but they are to cryptic for my dumbass. Cat post I understood more. Maybe they are both telling me the same thing in different ways.
I don't know how to drive more space without being an a$$. Detach when we interact so much together cuz of kids. it seems so impossible. The closet thing I did was that tonight. By putting the kids in the car and saying goodnight.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/11/12 03:24 AM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
I just don't get how to have balance with 2 small kids and some many activities going on with them. It is so TOUGH. Tonight I coached his team. She was there. After I put them in the car and said goodbye. In other words I tried to go back to separation mode from where I was helping with the dog situation mode. It was a tough transition but I did it.
Nothing against KD posts but they are to cryptic for my dumbass. Cat post I understood more. Maybe they are both telling me the same thing in different ways.
I don't know how to drive more space without being an a$$. Detach when we interact so much together cuz of kids. it seems so impossible. The closet thing I did was that tonight. By putting the kids in the car and saying goodnight.
Nothing against KD posts but they are to cryptic for my dumbass. Cat post I understood more. Maybe they are both telling me the same thing in different ways.
I don't know how to drive more space without being an a$$. Detach when we interact so much together cuz of kids. it seems so impossible. The closet thing I did was that tonight. By putting the kids in the car and saying goodnight.
Net - the next time your W calls and needs to you to step in with the kids on a day that is not your day, you need to have other plans. The next time she asks you to help her with something, you need to be too busy to help. Turn down every other invitation to get together, because you are just too damn busy!
That is how you'll create additional space. Make sense?
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/11/12 12:53 PM
What are some tips to not let your W's mood dictate yours. For example she is back to being quiet to me. Sort of predictable. Easter is over and she got what she wanted. I went to put son on bus and she was quiet. I just said have a great day and went on my way. Are there any tips or things to think about to not let W's mood dictate mine. I'm working on this in counseling too. It's sort of comical. That is one thing I try to tell myself through this process.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/11/12 12:57 PM
Until you detach, her moods will affect yours. There is no way around it. 2thepoint gave great advice just before this, when she asks you to do something say no every other time. You are busy, this is what D feels like. She can't feel it if you are there all of the time
I'm glad you are working on it with your IC too. It takes time but when you detach, it feels amazing. It is for you, not for her.
I'm glad you are working on it with your IC too. It takes time but when you detach, it feels amazing. It is for you, not for her.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/11/12 03:23 PM
Spent 2 1/2 hours today on detachment. Working hard on it
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/11/12 03:52 PM
I know it is very difficult at first but trust me it does get easier. You will find yourself focusing on the sitch less and less and really enjoying your days. Hang in there netmaster.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 02:33 PM
I did have a good detach weekend before Easter . She had kids and was hurting. But now seems like there is a kid activity every night between sports and school.
Another tricky situation is my lease up June 1 but need to let owners know by may 1st.
No clue how to handle this one yet.
Another tricky situation is my lease up June 1 but need to let owners know by may 1st.
No clue how to handle this one yet.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 03:58 PM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
I did have a good detach weekend before Easter . She had kids and was hurting. But now seems like there is a kid activity every night between sports and school.
Another tricky situation is my lease up June 1 but need to let owners know by may 1st.
No clue how to handle this one yet.
Another tricky situation is my lease up June 1 but need to let owners know by may 1st.
No clue how to handle this one yet.
Renew your lease for another 6 months or 1 year. Assume this is your new life. If things change, you can always break the lease.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 04:35 PM
What about trying to get back under same roof. I can try month to month too.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 04:39 PM
How about this then, NM...
Ask your W if you can move back in once your lease is over.
Ask your W if you can move back in once your lease is over.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 04:41 PM
My view is your plans need to be structured around you never getting back with your W. If it happens, great! But if you live your life hoping, praying, expecting...then you will remain attached to her changes in mood, behavior and actions. You'll end up like a plastic bag stuck to the under carriage of a car traveling down the hwy, all the while flapping uncontrollably in the wind.
See my point?
If you pay month to month, it is like you expect to get back under the same roof with your W. Think about how that is going to feel every month that it doesn't happen. Is that what you want for yourself?
See my point?
If you pay month to month, it is like you expect to get back under the same roof with your W. Think about how that is going to feel every month that it doesn't happen. Is that what you want for yourself?
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 05:05 PM
KD I was going to do that and if she says no renew a lease somewhere better for a year and assume its done like 2thepoint states.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 05:10 PM
I get it 2point but as kd said ask. I seem tO be scared to ask my W anything
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 05:17 PM
Ask her how her day was? Ask her how she is coping with the loss of her dog? Maybe ask her if she'd like to go look at puppies...when the time is right, of course. Start small and work from there.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 05:33 PM
Well we went as a family last night to get the dogs ashes. Brutal but added closure. Right now what works for me and W is not all this boundary stuff. I think I know my answer about moving back home but I'll ask in early may anyways. I've already started looking at bigger more perm places to live for kids
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 06:07 PM
Funny thing is we hang out all time and get along fine. Oh well I'm not going to overthink things. I'll see where I stand in May , continue to be friends, continue to work on me and adjust after .
I did have extreme anxiety after Easter weekend but counselor thought cyz I was there all weekend and dog stuff then went back to apartment
I did have extreme anxiety after Easter weekend but counselor thought cyz I was there all weekend and dog stuff then went back to apartment
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 06:26 PM
Net,
I am curious...
if you had to describe your relationship with your W at this very moment, how would you do it?
How do you think she would describe it?
I am curious...
if you had to describe your relationship with your W at this very moment, how would you do it?
How do you think she would describe it?
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 06:59 PM
Friends only
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 07:32 PM
Ok they why are you thinking like you are her H?
Would you be considering asking a friend if you can move in with them when your lease is up?
Somehow, I doubt it.
Net,
Just because you interact with her regarding the children, that doesn't mean the state of your relationship has changed.
You will always have contact with her because of the kids unless you choose not to have a relationship with your kids.
For the REST OF YOUR LIFE YOU WILL INTERACT WITH HER ON THAT LEVEL.
However, you will not interact with her on a M level if you don't give her some time and space to figure out what exactly it is that she wants.
You were "detatched" for 6 weeks and then asked for MC. Her response was that she wanted a D and she stopped wearing her rings.
Do you simply not see that you are pushing her away?
IF the status of your M changes, SHE WILL LET YOU KNOW.
IF she wants you to move back in, SHE WILL ASK.
If you keep pushing her, you are only going to get answers that YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR.
STOP trying to be her H for now.
Be her FRIEND.
Friendships change and grow with time or they don't.
Pushing her for more, is NOT being her friend.
You need to go back through your threads, from the beginning and see that you are doing the same thing over and over and over.
And you are being told the same things over and over and over.
With the exception of someone suggesting what you want to hear, which is to ask to move back in.
What do you honestly think her response is going to be?
I can probably tell you.
She is not ready for that. And she may never be.
Are you really so desperate to maintain the status quo that you would settle for an unhappy M and an unhappy life?
If you are, then keep on the path you are on right now.
If you want better for yourself, for her, and for your children, then slow down, breath, and start doing the work.
Would you be considering asking a friend if you can move in with them when your lease is up?
Somehow, I doubt it.
Net,
Just because you interact with her regarding the children, that doesn't mean the state of your relationship has changed.
You will always have contact with her because of the kids unless you choose not to have a relationship with your kids.
For the REST OF YOUR LIFE YOU WILL INTERACT WITH HER ON THAT LEVEL.
However, you will not interact with her on a M level if you don't give her some time and space to figure out what exactly it is that she wants.
You were "detatched" for 6 weeks and then asked for MC. Her response was that she wanted a D and she stopped wearing her rings.
Do you simply not see that you are pushing her away?
IF the status of your M changes, SHE WILL LET YOU KNOW.
IF she wants you to move back in, SHE WILL ASK.
If you keep pushing her, you are only going to get answers that YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR.
STOP trying to be her H for now.
Be her FRIEND.
Friendships change and grow with time or they don't.
Pushing her for more, is NOT being her friend.
You need to go back through your threads, from the beginning and see that you are doing the same thing over and over and over.
And you are being told the same things over and over and over.
With the exception of someone suggesting what you want to hear, which is to ask to move back in.
What do you honestly think her response is going to be?
I can probably tell you.
She is not ready for that. And she may never be.
Are you really so desperate to maintain the status quo that you would settle for an unhappy M and an unhappy life?
If you are, then keep on the path you are on right now.
If you want better for yourself, for her, and for your children, then slow down, breath, and start doing the work.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 08:38 PM
Cat thx for this reply. You are so right in many ways.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 08:41 PM
Cat she has been acting different toward me. She has been inviting me to more stuff. She has been emailing me (which is very odd). I am counseling twice a week and making progress. I definitely want to be in a happy healthy marriage. I think she does too. I don't want a status quo. I want a healthy, honest,open, honest relationship. Believe me I am doing the work. But you are right. I shouldn't push her at all or pressure her at all.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 08:51 PM
And if I told you what I did earlier today you would slap the crap out of me so I wont
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 09:09 PM
what did you do?
I won't slap you I promise.
I won't slap you I promise.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 09:14 PM
Be careful, cats have claws! 
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 09:40 PM
I know this is a trap. I tried for a kiss. She said she wasn't ready yet . Didn't get pissed. I apologized and she was cool . Made a joke saying it must be that azz of yours. She laughed. We heading to kids event now.
Start slapping but I see positives in this even though I know I screwed up
Start slapping but I see positives in this even though I know I screwed up
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 10:39 PM
Ummm....
I promised.
I promised.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 10:57 PM
Nah reply
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/12/12 11:01 PM
Actually having fun tonight being myself around her and cracking jokes like the old me
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/13/12 12:20 AM
Man of his promise. Believe me I lnow
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/13/12 02:10 AM
I know it is the worst possible thing I could have done but man did we have a good night as a family tonight. After I did I apologized. Went home and showered and came back and acted like nothing happened. I think it made her feel comfortable. I was cracking my jokes and even got her making some jokes for the first time in a very long time. I was just being myself in front of her for the first time in a very long time. You see I'm a very funny guy. This is what she liked about me when we first met and I lost sight of that. Not saying that this pursuit won't come back in my face a week from now (but I'm not going to think like that cause law of attractions will force it). So it won't come back to bite me. It happened. It is what it is. Anyways we had a really good night as a family. So I'm going to bed on a positive note for once.
cheers
cheers
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/13/12 04:05 AM
One feeling I do get though when I F up like this is that I feel like I'm starting over from scratch. What a terrible feeling lol
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/13/12 04:33 AM
NM, I mentioned you should ask your W about moving back in because if you really need to temp check her, that would certainly be quite clear on what she's thinking, right now...
I've been thinking about your sitch and I gave that suggestion as a possible option for you because I think that either you really haven't been able to fully fathom the rejection from your W and the absoluteness of it... for now...
Or you are so frantic, and perhaps it's just your nature, that you are all over the place here only because you just don't trust yourself to step up and be the H that your W is wanting you to be...
Which of the above do you think, because based on some of the stuff you just posted... I really have no idea if you have a relationship problem... or if you have a YOU problem...
And I mean that with complete respect and sincerity...
I've been thinking about your sitch and I gave that suggestion as a possible option for you because I think that either you really haven't been able to fully fathom the rejection from your W and the absoluteness of it... for now...
Or you are so frantic, and perhaps it's just your nature, that you are all over the place here only because you just don't trust yourself to step up and be the H that your W is wanting you to be...
Which of the above do you think, because based on some of the stuff you just posted... I really have no idea if you have a relationship problem... or if you have a YOU problem...
And I mean that with complete respect and sincerity...
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/13/12 10:48 AM
I'm pretty sure we have a relationship problem and a YOU problem. I'm working on the YOU part now with counselor. I get really anxious but mostly situational. I think I did what I did yesterday even know I knew the results because my W gives me so many mixed messages. She talks about going to vacation house this summer. She invites me to stuff on non kids weekend. She even changes in front of me again (never did this before). I had a weak moment man. I mean think about it I sit in a apartment alone almost everynight and haven't got any since Nov.
We do have a relationship problem too man. There are trust issues on both parts. You see. What H in any marriage or relationship would accept their W getting txt from several men. From the H's I talk to none. Zero. Zilch. My W thirnks it just fine that she gets txt from upward to 6 different guys. That to me is a relationship problem that needs addressing. Sorry its not normal. That is not about controlling her. That is about having respect for your spouse plain and simple. That is not about not trusting her. That is again in my opinion and others respect for your spouse. My good friend said its not normal and his W just wouldn't do it.
We have a relationship problem. We don't communicate. Even though I made suggestions in the past. Have say a monthly spouse meeting to see how things are going. She's not open to doing stuff like this. Even going to a person to talk. Not even a MC but someone to just mediate our thoughts.
Listen KD I am a good guy. I understand the mistakes I made in the past and I have learned from them. I mean the FB mistakes I haven't had an account in momths or haven't had something like that happen in 3 years.
I do have a YOU problem and I am working on them. But honestly when she is acting like this to me things are so much fun and better. We can get along. We have been for weeks. It takes effort on both ends. My effort every week doesn't change. I'M NOT SAYING IT IS ALL HER. It is me. Even last night I thought I did pretty good. I made that mistake but turned around and came right back and didn't mope. We had fun. We made jokes and laughed. I have a seriously YOU problem. I have anxiety so bad this morning. But I'm trying to breath through it.
I'm thinking about renewing my lease today for a year honestly. I don't want my W having me move back home for the kids only. I want her to want me as a person.
I do trust myself to be the H my wants to be. We hit a HUGE rough patch. You don't even know the husband I am actually. I am a pretty good husband now. Unfortunately I wasn't in the past. I also was an enabler. Every ache and pain she cried about I enabled her by being around to much at home. I'll take the kids. I'll do this. I'll do that. Sorry comes with my flexible business schedule.
We have so much work to do as a couple. I know I made a mistake yesterday. Maybe I am wrong. She was cool about it. She wasn't a jerk. I was cool about it and we still had a very good night. I mean KD she could have punched me and asked me to leave.
Listen I know I have lots of issues to work. Funny thing is so does my W. She admits it but doesn't work on them. That part scares me a little because I know I can't control that. I just pray she decides to one day.
If I could completely fix my anxiety and control issues of course I would be less frantic. Less intense. I'm still working on it. It is my nature man though. I run an advertising business. Think sales. I'm a manipulator. Always have been. Sometimes in bad ways and sometimes in ways to make me succeed.
I do think my W wants me to move back to be honest. I truly do. I think she is SCARED to death it will be like the old way. I do think she misses having my helping hands around. She knows how good I am like that now. She knows how good of father I am. I just think she doesn't want it like the old days.
Listen do more of what works right. Me and W are getting along right now. I slipped up and pursuit'd her.
I do know that you guys are right though. When I don't pursuit her and I'm not around seems to drive her crazy. But it also seemed to get her to book a L too. So yeah there is a balance. KD don't think I don't appreciate your feedback I do.
I do think my objective is to get back under the same roof and prove that I can be normal, trusting, and funny just like the guy she married. I know where I stand now with my W. So I know I need to still be a friend, a great father, and try to be less available. Let me tell you it is the most challenging thing ever. Even this weekend. Fri-Sun. All kids events and next week school vacation.
We do have a relationship problem too man. There are trust issues on both parts. You see. What H in any marriage or relationship would accept their W getting txt from several men. From the H's I talk to none. Zero. Zilch. My W thirnks it just fine that she gets txt from upward to 6 different guys. That to me is a relationship problem that needs addressing. Sorry its not normal. That is not about controlling her. That is about having respect for your spouse plain and simple. That is not about not trusting her. That is again in my opinion and others respect for your spouse. My good friend said its not normal and his W just wouldn't do it.
We have a relationship problem. We don't communicate. Even though I made suggestions in the past. Have say a monthly spouse meeting to see how things are going. She's not open to doing stuff like this. Even going to a person to talk. Not even a MC but someone to just mediate our thoughts.
Listen KD I am a good guy. I understand the mistakes I made in the past and I have learned from them. I mean the FB mistakes I haven't had an account in momths or haven't had something like that happen in 3 years.
I do have a YOU problem and I am working on them. But honestly when she is acting like this to me things are so much fun and better. We can get along. We have been for weeks. It takes effort on both ends. My effort every week doesn't change. I'M NOT SAYING IT IS ALL HER. It is me. Even last night I thought I did pretty good. I made that mistake but turned around and came right back and didn't mope. We had fun. We made jokes and laughed. I have a seriously YOU problem. I have anxiety so bad this morning. But I'm trying to breath through it.
I'm thinking about renewing my lease today for a year honestly. I don't want my W having me move back home for the kids only. I want her to want me as a person.
I do trust myself to be the H my wants to be. We hit a HUGE rough patch. You don't even know the husband I am actually. I am a pretty good husband now. Unfortunately I wasn't in the past. I also was an enabler. Every ache and pain she cried about I enabled her by being around to much at home. I'll take the kids. I'll do this. I'll do that. Sorry comes with my flexible business schedule.
We have so much work to do as a couple. I know I made a mistake yesterday. Maybe I am wrong. She was cool about it. She wasn't a jerk. I was cool about it and we still had a very good night. I mean KD she could have punched me and asked me to leave.
Listen I know I have lots of issues to work. Funny thing is so does my W. She admits it but doesn't work on them. That part scares me a little because I know I can't control that. I just pray she decides to one day.
If I could completely fix my anxiety and control issues of course I would be less frantic. Less intense. I'm still working on it. It is my nature man though. I run an advertising business. Think sales. I'm a manipulator. Always have been. Sometimes in bad ways and sometimes in ways to make me succeed.
I do think my W wants me to move back to be honest. I truly do. I think she is SCARED to death it will be like the old way. I do think she misses having my helping hands around. She knows how good I am like that now. She knows how good of father I am. I just think she doesn't want it like the old days.
Listen do more of what works right. Me and W are getting along right now. I slipped up and pursuit'd her.
I do know that you guys are right though. When I don't pursuit her and I'm not around seems to drive her crazy. But it also seemed to get her to book a L too. So yeah there is a balance. KD don't think I don't appreciate your feedback I do.
I do think my objective is to get back under the same roof and prove that I can be normal, trusting, and funny just like the guy she married. I know where I stand now with my W. So I know I need to still be a friend, a great father, and try to be less available. Let me tell you it is the most challenging thing ever. Even this weekend. Fri-Sun. All kids events and next week school vacation.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/13/12 12:52 PM
Also I do believe this forum has saved my marriage up to this point honestly. Here is what I mean. all the threats of D and selling house. I handled them very well. I just listened and told her that was not the path I wanted to take for the family. Where I am failing is the pursuit part and not failing miserably. Just failing with the balance. Which everyone knows on this board how hard it is.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/13/12 01:59 PM
I have no problem believing you are a good guy.
Just something to consider here, that 25 often says to people...
IF you and your W somehow get through this and your M is saved...
What makes you think the M will be any different than it was, that the same problem won't show up again, in six months, a year... a few years...
Because you may notice, this site is also littered with posts of people who pulled off miracles, and in the middle of their turmoil, they reconciled and got back together... and disappeared... only to reappear a year or two later with the same problems...
Or they come back, being in a new R... and they again have the same problems showing up in their posts...
You are in a rush... and it might just work for your to save your M...
But... rather than telling me about what the counsellor and your are working on which may produce FUTURE results...
What about the practical stuff that is changing...
and will stick...??
Just something to consider here, that 25 often says to people...
IF you and your W somehow get through this and your M is saved...
What makes you think the M will be any different than it was, that the same problem won't show up again, in six months, a year... a few years...
Because you may notice, this site is also littered with posts of people who pulled off miracles, and in the middle of their turmoil, they reconciled and got back together... and disappeared... only to reappear a year or two later with the same problems...
Or they come back, being in a new R... and they again have the same problems showing up in their posts...
You are in a rush... and it might just work for your to save your M...
But... rather than telling me about what the counsellor and your are working on which may produce FUTURE results...
What about the practical stuff that is changing...
and will stick...??
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/13/12 02:57 PM
KD I've changed so much you don't even know. I understand your point. I know this is why she said "I'm not ready" . hell even I know i am not ready but as you said fell into the trap of checking the temp.
The W and I would have to do some serious heart to heart.
Practical stuff. I've learned alot from being separated. GAL being huge. I would do so much more of this being back home.
I almost envision keeping the separation schedule as is even married. If that makes sense. I have so many good ideas to restore and create a health marriage.
I'm hoping one day she will be open to hearing them.
I am getting to the core issues of my childhood stuff. It feels good to get this stuff out.
I look at this little pursuit as a positive. Most people on this board look at is as OMG. You idiot. It's how we both handled it. Its how I handled it and its how I told her it wont happen again. Now I have to hold my word. she truly was ok with it. I do know my W. If she wasn't ok with it she would have told me. It was a very respectful conversation actually. I told her I understood and she felt my sincerity.
Anyways. There is no science to DB really. Everybody's sit is different. DB is not cookie cutting. My W's personality is different from yours. Maybe she needs a balance of me being there, me being away, and pursuit and non pursuit.
Anyways. Counseling was good today and I know I will have a good weekend.
The W and I would have to do some serious heart to heart.
Practical stuff. I've learned alot from being separated. GAL being huge. I would do so much more of this being back home.
I almost envision keeping the separation schedule as is even married. If that makes sense. I have so many good ideas to restore and create a health marriage.
I'm hoping one day she will be open to hearing them.
I am getting to the core issues of my childhood stuff. It feels good to get this stuff out.
I look at this little pursuit as a positive. Most people on this board look at is as OMG. You idiot. It's how we both handled it. Its how I handled it and its how I told her it wont happen again. Now I have to hold my word. she truly was ok with it. I do know my W. If she wasn't ok with it she would have told me. It was a very respectful conversation actually. I told her I understood and she felt my sincerity.
Anyways. There is no science to DB really. Everybody's sit is different. DB is not cookie cutting. My W's personality is different from yours. Maybe she needs a balance of me being there, me being away, and pursuit and non pursuit.
Anyways. Counseling was good today and I know I will have a good weekend.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/13/12 03:15 PM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
I think I did what I did yesterday even know I knew the results because my W gives me so many mixed messages. She talks about going to vacation house this summer. She invites me to stuff on non kids weekend. She even changes in front of me again (never did this before). I had a weak moment man. I mean think about it I sit in a apartment alone almost everynight and haven't got any since Nov.
Really, you are going to put the responsibility for YOUR actions onto you W?
Come on Net, you know better than that.
The future talk, the changing in front of you, the invitations...are all positive things. Even the way she reacted to the attempt wasn't horrible. It could have been though.
Why would you attempt to sabatoge that with something you knew the results of prior to doing it simply because you haven't "gotten any" since November?
Take some personal responsibility and take care of your own physical needs for now.
Originally Posted By: Netmaster
But honestly when she is acting like this to me things are so much fun and better. We can get along. We have been for weeks. It takes effort on both ends. My effort every week doesn't change. I'M NOT SAYING IT IS ALL HER. It is me. Even last night I thought I did pretty good. I made that mistake but turned around and came right back and didn't mope. We had fun. We made jokes and laughed.
Again you ARE putting the responsibility for YOUR actions on her. You are saying you acted X because she acted Y. Which is a REACTION not and action.
Why couldn't you just be funny and whatnot regardless of how she is acting?
If she were sad and mopy, would you have joined her in the pity party?
Originally Posted By: Netmaster
I do trust myself to be the H my wants to be.
What about being the H that YOU want to be?
Do you have a clue what that looks like?
Can you describe it?
Originally Posted By: Netmaster
If I could completely fix my anxiety and control issues of course I would be less frantic. Less intense. I'm still working on it. It is my nature man though. I run an advertising business. Think sales. I'm a manipulator. Always have been.
Another excuse to not take responsibility for your behavior.
If you know it is part of your makeup, and it works well for your business, that is great.
However, if it is damaging in your personal life, then maybe you need to put some energy into learning how to only in a professional setting.
I know lots of sales people who are not necessarily manipulators, not anxious or controlling. They are simply good sales people.
Originally Posted By: Netmaster
I do think my W wants me to move back to be honest. I truly do. I think she is SCARED to death it will be like the old way. I do think she misses having my helping hands around. She knows how good I am like that now. She knows how good of father I am. I just think she doesn't want it like the old days.
STOP MINDREADING!!!!
She will tell you this stuff if that is what she wants.
Originally Posted By: Netmaster
I do think my objective is to get back under the same roof and prove that I can be normal, trusting, and funny just like the guy she married.
There, fixed that for you.
As far as the R issues, trust is the easiest thing to lose and the hardest thing to regain.
Communication is something that can be worked on even as your R stands right now, simply by talking, listening, validating, listening, not reacting, listening, not mindreading or assuming, listening...
Did I say listening? It is an art form that we all need to practice...
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/13/12 03:30 PM
Hey Net,
I was just catching up on your sitch. Don't fret, I'm not going to get after you for goofing up, I did it myself earlier this week, it happens. The best we can do is learn from it and and make a concious choice to avoid repeating the same mistake.
I'm glad to hear that you are making some changes in you with your IC. Keep it going! From what you've shared, I think we have similiar backgrounds. I caught this from a post of yours a few pages back and wanted to address it:
This is why GAL is so important. I'm glad to hear that you're in therapy, because I can only assume it's MUCH easier to do this with the help of a professional. Once you get a clear definition of Net, who Net is and what makes Net tick, the issue of having others dictate your moods will become a non-issue. When you become more self focused (not self-centered, that's a different thing) the emotional boundaries between yourself and others become very clear and it's easier to differentiate between the two. You'll become far less reactionary.
I'm not sure if I've articulated that very well. I hope that makes sense. If it does, I've just saved you what took me months and $thousands to figure out.
I was just catching up on your sitch. Don't fret, I'm not going to get after you for goofing up, I did it myself earlier this week, it happens. The best we can do is learn from it and and make a concious choice to avoid repeating the same mistake.
I'm glad to hear that you are making some changes in you with your IC. Keep it going! From what you've shared, I think we have similiar backgrounds. I caught this from a post of yours a few pages back and wanted to address it:
Originally Posted By: netmaster
What are some tips to not let your W's mood dictate yours.
This is why GAL is so important. I'm glad to hear that you're in therapy, because I can only assume it's MUCH easier to do this with the help of a professional. Once you get a clear definition of Net, who Net is and what makes Net tick, the issue of having others dictate your moods will become a non-issue. When you become more self focused (not self-centered, that's a different thing) the emotional boundaries between yourself and others become very clear and it's easier to differentiate between the two. You'll become far less reactionary.
I'm not sure if I've articulated that very well. I hope that makes sense. If it does, I've just saved you what took me months and $thousands to figure out.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/13/12 09:04 PM
I didn't want to sabotage it. I had a weak moment. Very weak moment. Told her it wouldn't happen again. Now I need to hold my word and wait.
I'm working on being funny and myself no matter what her mood. Takes time. Part of detaching. Getting there slowly.
The husband I want to be now. Compassionate. Good listener (very tough) HONEST. Trustworthy. Good provider. Good values. I know what I want in a marriage now. I hope I can have it with her.
I'm working on my anxiety every week. Making progress..
I'm trying to be less reactive and less projecting. It is amazingly difficult for me. But I'm learnign my triggers weekly. I'm excited to be working on myself not matter what the outcome.
I am confident this marriage can be saved. I see my W acting and doing different things. Like a conscious effort. I just need to be more patient and less horny lol (kidding sort of)
I'm working on being funny and myself no matter what her mood. Takes time. Part of detaching. Getting there slowly.
The husband I want to be now. Compassionate. Good listener (very tough) HONEST. Trustworthy. Good provider. Good values. I know what I want in a marriage now. I hope I can have it with her.
I'm working on my anxiety every week. Making progress..
I'm trying to be less reactive and less projecting. It is amazingly difficult for me. But I'm learnign my triggers weekly. I'm excited to be working on myself not matter what the outcome.
I am confident this marriage can be saved. I see my W acting and doing different things. Like a conscious effort. I just need to be more patient and less horny lol (kidding sort of)
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/13/12 09:58 PM
I didn't want to sabotage it. I had a weak moment. Very weak moment.
Why do you keep beating yourself over this? It wasn't a "weak" moment. It was a moment. Deal with it and move on. Shrug it off. She's still your W and you impulsively went for it.
"Told her it wouldn't happen again."
Never say anything with finality like that. You just shot down your own chances in your mind. Again, just shrug things like that off. You could've turned it around into something a little more offhanded so that it wasn't a big deal. Put some of that humor of yours back into your personality.
Why do you keep beating yourself over this? It wasn't a "weak" moment. It was a moment. Deal with it and move on. Shrug it off. She's still your W and you impulsively went for it.
"Told her it wouldn't happen again."
Never say anything with finality like that. You just shot down your own chances in your mind. Again, just shrug things like that off. You could've turned it around into something a little more offhanded so that it wasn't a big deal. Put some of that humor of yours back into your personality.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/14/12 01:02 AM
Mr b cuz everyone tells me not to pursue. I did put some humour into. Said it must have been those black pants
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/14/12 01:24 AM
but thanks for the tip on finality. That makes sense now in hindsight lol
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/17/12 09:08 PM
What happened to you?
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/17/12 11:04 PM
Trying to not be a hamster. See I don't pursue and la misses me
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/17/12 11:15 PM
^^^^Good one!
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/17/12 11:16 PM
Lol that's funny net
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/17/12 11:32 PM
I'll update you guys later tonight. I'm working hard on how I react to her. Not easy but will give you a summary
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/18/12 01:36 AM
Think you are Coming along buddy
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/18/12 02:02 AM
Ok here is the deal. We were hanging out as a family a good amount. Huge family BBQ. Kids events. Turned a few things down. She invited me to neighbors and she even talked future talk. (indirect) Overall good balance etc.
HERE IS UNDISPUTABLE FACT: My W when she ovulates turns into a person I don't even know. It can last around 5 days. This is when and ONLY when she threatens me with D and asks to sell house and end marriage. Let me repeat this. This is the ONLY time I get these threats. When she took rings off that was the week. Everytime like clockworks. When I told you guys she was txting me to sell house that month she was in this state. It is beyond anything I'VE EVER seen. If you have time to google PMMD and read up on this it is pretty much her in a nutshell. My life. Almost living with someone that is bipolar.
I've been learning with counselor to identify this and not feed into it and not react..I'm trying very hard this week to give her even more space and not feed into this absolute insanity. Just to avoid 1 month without D talks etc.
She is in this state right now and she has instantly put the boundaries back up. Like a giant LIGHT switch. Let me tell you throw all your DB rules out the window when she is like this. Also. She doesn't just do it to me. She treats her own mother badly etc. She even can be short with the kids.
So I've increased GAL activities this week and trying to make myself less available unless related to kids..
Here is another problem. I'm not sure I can live my life with someone like this. I've been thinking long and hard lately about it. I mean it is a giant swing. I'm slightly more detached then I was before but I've really been thinking. Do I really want to live with someone like this who is in COMPLETE denial and on top of it I can't even bring the topic up at all.
Anyways that is where the hamster is at. Not much I can do really but continue to work on myself. I can't control her to get help. She needs it. She uses me and the separation as excuses on why she feels this way. Everytime she has a new excuse etc..
At the end of the day I'm getting better with handling the situation and the anxiety with it but it really has taken a toll on me.
I've started to think about an exit plan for the first time since being separated. Not a good thought but that is where I am at right now.
Next big milestone is lease is up June 1 and I need to let these guys know before that.
HERE IS UNDISPUTABLE FACT: My W when she ovulates turns into a person I don't even know. It can last around 5 days. This is when and ONLY when she threatens me with D and asks to sell house and end marriage. Let me repeat this. This is the ONLY time I get these threats. When she took rings off that was the week. Everytime like clockworks. When I told you guys she was txting me to sell house that month she was in this state. It is beyond anything I'VE EVER seen. If you have time to google PMMD and read up on this it is pretty much her in a nutshell. My life. Almost living with someone that is bipolar.
I've been learning with counselor to identify this and not feed into it and not react..I'm trying very hard this week to give her even more space and not feed into this absolute insanity. Just to avoid 1 month without D talks etc.
She is in this state right now and she has instantly put the boundaries back up. Like a giant LIGHT switch. Let me tell you throw all your DB rules out the window when she is like this. Also. She doesn't just do it to me. She treats her own mother badly etc. She even can be short with the kids.
So I've increased GAL activities this week and trying to make myself less available unless related to kids..
Here is another problem. I'm not sure I can live my life with someone like this. I've been thinking long and hard lately about it. I mean it is a giant swing. I'm slightly more detached then I was before but I've really been thinking. Do I really want to live with someone like this who is in COMPLETE denial and on top of it I can't even bring the topic up at all.
Anyways that is where the hamster is at. Not much I can do really but continue to work on myself. I can't control her to get help. She needs it. She uses me and the separation as excuses on why she feels this way. Everytime she has a new excuse etc..
At the end of the day I'm getting better with handling the situation and the anxiety with it but it really has taken a toll on me.
I've started to think about an exit plan for the first time since being separated. Not a good thought but that is where I am at right now.
Next big milestone is lease is up June 1 and I need to let these guys know before that.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/18/12 02:39 AM
Ham - I think you should renew your lease for another 6 months. Then play it by ear. If your W is indeed having these tremendous mood swings there is probably some medication that can be taken to help address the problem.
Obviously you know your w best and what you are able to tolerate but if part of the problem is related to her monthly cycle, that seems like a treatable condition.
Can you hold out and continue to DB while she works her way through the crisis, all the while showing her the new and improved You? Is it worth your effort? Only you know.
Try to hang in there!
Obviously you know your w best and what you are able to tolerate but if part of the problem is related to her monthly cycle, that seems like a treatable condition.
Can you hold out and continue to DB while she works her way through the crisis, all the while showing her the new and improved You? Is it worth your effort? Only you know.
Try to hang in there!
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/18/12 02:54 AM
2thepoint I'm a little worried at this point. She is in complete denial of it. Obviously I can't bring it up in our current situation.
I mean listen last week. Invites me to things. Buys me pants! Dinners. You name it. This hits and BOOM. Doesn't even want me around. I've learned to not react to it this time around and this is probably the ONLY reason no D threats. Its like trying to rationalize with a 2 year old.
The other problem is she has been to so many dr's telling her she needs to take vit d, b's etc.. My W will NOT take a pill. Not a one. The only other option is birth control and she can't take it cuz of her age and her heart.
Yoga would help but she doesn't do that. Plus the whole time she blames me. let me tell you I'm in a giant catch 22 and always have been. Like I said I'm not a bad guy. I'm getting better and better each week from counseling.
Is it worth hanging on. Absolutely I have the cinderella life on paper. Nice house, vacation house, and beautiful kids. They are perfect.
I'm not sure how she will ever see it isn't me causing this until I'm completely gone. Honestly wish you guys could understand the light switch in the mood swing. It is indescribable.
Only reason and I mean only reason I have not gotten d threats this month is because I recognized the state and avoided her and if I have seen her i was semi detached from her moods while around her.
I'm talking hanging out at the park and getting invites to the neighbors house to I don't want you around period. No joke.
Anyways. NADA I can do. But work on me. I'm not sure how she can address the issue when she doesn't think she has one. Like telling alcoholic they need AA
I mean listen last week. Invites me to things. Buys me pants! Dinners. You name it. This hits and BOOM. Doesn't even want me around. I've learned to not react to it this time around and this is probably the ONLY reason no D threats. Its like trying to rationalize with a 2 year old.
The other problem is she has been to so many dr's telling her she needs to take vit d, b's etc.. My W will NOT take a pill. Not a one. The only other option is birth control and she can't take it cuz of her age and her heart.
Yoga would help but she doesn't do that. Plus the whole time she blames me. let me tell you I'm in a giant catch 22 and always have been. Like I said I'm not a bad guy. I'm getting better and better each week from counseling.
Is it worth hanging on. Absolutely I have the cinderella life on paper. Nice house, vacation house, and beautiful kids. They are perfect.
I'm not sure how she will ever see it isn't me causing this until I'm completely gone. Honestly wish you guys could understand the light switch in the mood swing. It is indescribable.
Only reason and I mean only reason I have not gotten d threats this month is because I recognized the state and avoided her and if I have seen her i was semi detached from her moods while around her.
I'm talking hanging out at the park and getting invites to the neighbors house to I don't want you around period. No joke.
Anyways. NADA I can do. But work on me. I'm not sure how she can address the issue when she doesn't think she has one. Like telling alcoholic they need AA
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/18/12 03:20 AM
Net, this is where you were in January.
Good night!
Good night!
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/18/12 03:21 AM
Net,
Sounds like your making progress. I know how you feel about W. I bought up the talk of a MC since we previously went one and had success. While she has not said no she has not agreed. Hang in there!
SIW
Sounds like your making progress. I know how you feel about W. I bought up the talk of a MC since we previously went one and had success. While she has not said no she has not agreed. Hang in there!
SIW
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/18/12 09:52 AM
LA I know it is. Believe me I know. And before this forum this has been happening for over a year. The only difference is I'm working on myself and getting very close to asking for a D myself. I can't force my W to seek help. I can't force her to do anything. But I can't live my life like this. She doesn't see the pattern. She is in complete denial. It's actually quite sad. The only difference this month is i'm avoiding the situation completely.
Believe me I know what she will say next. That because I tried for some affection last week is why she feels this way now. I've been dealing with this UP/DOWN behavior for a very long time. I've talked to tons of married friends and they told me they can't believe my patience. There is nothing I can do but completely detach from her and move on completely. That is what I talk about when thinking about exit plan. I mean exit. Only way she will see that it is not me causing these ups and downs.
LA I'm not a dumb azz. I know where I was in January. I know where I was a year before in January.
She doesn't know it
Believe me I know what she will say next. That because I tried for some affection last week is why she feels this way now. I've been dealing with this UP/DOWN behavior for a very long time. I've talked to tons of married friends and they told me they can't believe my patience. There is nothing I can do but completely detach from her and move on completely. That is what I talk about when thinking about exit plan. I mean exit. Only way she will see that it is not me causing these ups and downs.
LA I'm not a dumb azz. I know where I was in January. I know where I was a year before in January.
She doesn't know it
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/18/12 12:39 PM
La this is why I don't post here anymore. You act like its impossible to have a W that has the issues I've mentioned. I'm thinking about filing for D myself now. I'm very emotional lately about this. She will never seek help and will always live in denial
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/18/12 12:53 PM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
La this is why I don't post here anymore. You act like its impossible to have a W that has the issues I've mentioned. I'm thinking about filing for D myself now. I'm very emotional lately about this. She will never seek help and will always live in denial
Net,
You talk in absolutes. Never, always, etc...
NOTHING is written in stone.
It isn't impossible that your W has these issues, for goodness sake, most women have SOME issues related to their cycle...we believe that there probably is a pattern to her moods...or at least that the possibility exists...
HOWEVER, while ideally it would be great for your W to do something about it, that isn't your choice. You can only deal with how YOU react to it. You can learn how to ignore it, you can learn how to put the brakes on if she starts talking what you believe to be nonsense, or you can cut and run.
Those are your choices.
Keeping playing the victim, laying all of the blame on her, isn't fair to either of you.
Ok so one week out of the month is hell. The rest aren't so bad. Maybe someday she will decide to try to change it for herself and those around her. Maybe not.
Only you can decide if it is something you want to try to work through. It is one of those "worse" things or "sickness" things that you took vows about.
Personally, I don't care that your M friends think you have tons of patience or that they don't deal with it, maybe they just don't have to deal with the severity of it that you do.
The question comes back to you though, what are you willing to tolerate in your life...
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/18/12 01:43 PM
Net, I agree with what Cat says above.
Those of us who have posted to you have tried to help you see and understand that you cannot change someone else. That's it in a nutshell.
You want to fix her, she doesn't want to be fixed.
Only you know what you can and cannot do.
But basing your relationship on the possibility of your wife changing is like pounding sand down a rathole.
I really do wish you well.
Those of us who have posted to you have tried to help you see and understand that you cannot change someone else. That's it in a nutshell.
You want to fix her, she doesn't want to be fixed.
Only you know what you can and cannot do.
But basing your relationship on the possibility of your wife changing is like pounding sand down a rathole.
I really do wish you well.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/18/12 02:27 PM
Thx Cat and LA. I know you guys do. I'm very frustrated. I KNOW I can't fix her. I do understand what you guys are saying. I'm doing my very best to avoid conflict this week as this passes. I completely get it. I'm working hard with my counselor to control my reactions to it. I'm actually doing good this week believe it or not considering how much time we spent as a family and then she pu the ebrakes on. I'm doing ok "stepping down" as my counselor would say.
I just went for a 16 mile bike ride. It helped.
I just went for a 16 mile bike ride. It helped.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/18/12 10:23 PM
I marked on the calendar the 19th she would threaten me with D and selling house. Today is the 18th. I missed it by one day. I told her I'm ok with it. She don't even see it guys. I don't want her to feel trapped anymore. I set let me know time and place to mediate. I wish you guys could see the EXTREME switch in moods. Almost comical. Thanks for everything guys. I'm going to go into complete detach mode and back into boundary mode. Unavailable from this point out. She was so nasty to me at the house. It really was comical.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 05:46 AM
Maybe in a couple of days, she'll reconsider?
Quick question for you Net, when your W goes off the deep end, how do you react? Do you sometimes find yourself feeding her rage, maybe with a look on your face or your body language?
I don't know what you do or how you act when she is in her crazy time but maybe you could consider setting a boundary with her regarding her behavior. Something like "W I know you are upset, but I won't be spoken to in that tone. I'm leaving or ending this discussion or whatever and we can talk again once you have calmed down." If you haven't tried this yet, maybe give it a shot.
Quick question for you Net, when your W goes off the deep end, how do you react? Do you sometimes find yourself feeding her rage, maybe with a look on your face or your body language?
I don't know what you do or how you act when she is in her crazy time but maybe you could consider setting a boundary with her regarding her behavior. Something like "W I know you are upset, but I won't be spoken to in that tone. I'm leaving or ending this discussion or whatever and we can talk again once you have calmed down." If you haven't tried this yet, maybe give it a shot.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 12:21 PM
2thepoint yes I did feed her rage yesterday a little. Then I backed off realizing it is like trying to rationalize with a 2 year old. I did say I didn't appreciate being spoken to like that. Calling me fn ahole etc..I slipped up and said I couldn't keep doing this every month. Not sure if it was a slip up or how I felt. When she called me an fn ahole and every other name I just said sorry you feel that way and the same thing about the D threats. This is not just a "cycle" thing it is exactly how you describe it "RAGE". From high fives 3 days before to absolute "RAGE"
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 01:25 PM
If you knew the week of the 19th was going to be bad, why were you with her?
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 01:37 PM
I pick the kids up every other day
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 01:38 PM
I literally said what's going on and she pounced. Small talk
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 02:48 PM
Also as crazy as this sounds it's almost like she needs to rage and get it out of her system. Sounds crazy but it certainly ends the nonsense tension between us created by her
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 03:07 PM
so if it's been happening "forever" NM...
why are you still reacting to it?
why are you still reacting to it?
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 03:14 PM
Cuz I get sucked in like a moth on light bulb. The tension is so high for no reason. So high that a simple "hows it going" causes her to explode
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 03:33 PM
I limited my reaction the best I could
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 03:45 PM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
Cuz I get sucked in like a moth on light bulb. The tension is so high for no reason. So high that a simple "hows it going" causes her to explode
so... stop being a moth...
NM, you say this and still speak in terms of things being done TO you... please stop being a victim.
Geeze... I don't really do this to anyone... ever... here or IRL...
Your self victimization is getting tedious, my friend...
I support you 100%... but you have to help yourself... because eventually... the soft shoulders go away....
I get it... I really, really get it... and I still get the feeling that you don't believe me or anyone else that say to you that we understand...
NM, I mentioned about doing things that serve us... and you said you didn't understand... but those were words that you typed on your computer and posted here... I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU...
We all understand what it means to have something serve us... like eating to serve our hunger...
Posting here to say that your W "magically" turned into a raging monster, serves you...
It gets us all going, "oh NM... that's too bad"... and you get to feel significant and worthy... because you are not getting those needs met by your W...
But here's where it's failing, NM...
You go and tell us that you KNEW it was about to happen again...
Yet you say it happened as though she blind sided you... but... you knew it was going to happen... which is it...?
Or is it self fulfilling prophecy...
Do you really believe that she has the power to control how you feel?
When you go to work and your boss rags on you about something... totally out of the blue... how about when your kids have tantrums... and please don't tell me those things don't happen... and if they really don't... then let's go with a coffee shop clerk is having a bad day and is rude to you... How come we don't hear how they blind sided you...? Like a moth to flame...
You are the moth my friend... choose the moon... not the flame... only you can do that... and you are not helpless... unless you want to be... because it serves you...
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 04:05 PM
KD I see what you're saying. I'm truly not posting on here for sympathy from you guys. I did know it was coming and I tried to prepare myself to not over react. I had canned responses in my head. Like "I understand that these are your feelings" and "I'm sorry your're so upset" But when she went for the jugular I did react and then stepped off. When she threatens me with D I just always say that is not the direction I want to take and I understand that is how you're feeling. I did say the decision is yours and I don't want to make you feel trapped. Not sure if that was a good or bad thing to say.
I understand your analogies.
I know where I really failed. Being together so much as a family and then ebrake thrown on. That is where I completely failed. Then throw in the dying dog. It was a rough week for her and me and I tried to be as supportive as possible.
But KD my W does turn into a raging monster and I'm failing at taming the monster. I completely failed this month at it. My goal was to avoid the conflict this week cuz I knew it was coming and I failed at terribly. I let the conflict happen. I know this and I'm admitting I failed. I also know she wanted me to ask hows it going. I failed there too. I could have picked up the kids, put them in car, and left. I failed.
I tell you what this is the hardest thing ever for me to do. I hate failing even though I want to succeed.
Today she is being much better to me. Why I have no clue. Cuz she vented? I struggle here too. I just can't go about my day sometimes without pondering.
I tell you what is killing me is my business is slow as crap. It is absolutely killing me cuz I'm just not busy enough.
Thx for the words KD. Thx
I understand your analogies.
I know where I really failed. Being together so much as a family and then ebrake thrown on. That is where I completely failed. Then throw in the dying dog. It was a rough week for her and me and I tried to be as supportive as possible.
But KD my W does turn into a raging monster and I'm failing at taming the monster. I completely failed this month at it. My goal was to avoid the conflict this week cuz I knew it was coming and I failed at terribly. I let the conflict happen. I know this and I'm admitting I failed. I also know she wanted me to ask hows it going. I failed there too. I could have picked up the kids, put them in car, and left. I failed.
I tell you what this is the hardest thing ever for me to do. I hate failing even though I want to succeed.
Today she is being much better to me. Why I have no clue. Cuz she vented? I struggle here too. I just can't go about my day sometimes without pondering.
I tell you what is killing me is my business is slow as crap. It is absolutely killing me cuz I'm just not busy enough.
Thx for the words KD. Thx
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 04:21 PM
KD and others when she flips out like this what should I do. Keep it very short and dismiss myself. Like "I understand these are your feelings but I don't want to discuss things under these conditions" Like what 2thepoint said. I mean she was waiting for a tiny window to pounce and she did. I wish I did a better job at not reacting. But I didn't. I did ok or avg.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 04:22 PM
I do so understand, NM... that's why I get so frustrated with you... because I'm frustrated with myself for doing the same reactive things, even though I know better...
Remember... your W is a pro... a true pro at this... at pushing your buttons... if she's having a rotten day, hey... it's ALL ON YOU...
I'm not kidding saying this, maybe you really need to hire a coach... what ever type you can find willing to do this. Maybe a boxing coach, or a sensei, or perhaps an army captain or even a vocal coach...
No really, really... I'm not being facetious here... hire them for as long as it takes. When you get used to one, get another... until you can really do this...
Their job is to step in front of you, toe to toe... AND YELL AND SCREAM AND PUT YOU DOWN AND REMIND YOU THAT EVERYTHING WRONG IN THEIR LIFE IS YOUR FAULT!!! They might even tag along with you on a walk for an hour or so and "attack" you out of the blue, during friendly conversation or from behind a tree or closed door.
This type of behaviour modification is to allow you to stand in the storm. So when your W rages... no matter how unprepared you might be... you can stand in it... validate... and walk on...
Do you want to fix this for you?
Then please do this...
Remember... your W is a pro... a true pro at this... at pushing your buttons... if she's having a rotten day, hey... it's ALL ON YOU...
I'm not kidding saying this, maybe you really need to hire a coach... what ever type you can find willing to do this. Maybe a boxing coach, or a sensei, or perhaps an army captain or even a vocal coach...
No really, really... I'm not being facetious here... hire them for as long as it takes. When you get used to one, get another... until you can really do this...
Their job is to step in front of you, toe to toe... AND YELL AND SCREAM AND PUT YOU DOWN AND REMIND YOU THAT EVERYTHING WRONG IN THEIR LIFE IS YOUR FAULT!!! They might even tag along with you on a walk for an hour or so and "attack" you out of the blue, during friendly conversation or from behind a tree or closed door.
This type of behaviour modification is to allow you to stand in the storm. So when your W rages... no matter how unprepared you might be... you can stand in it... validate... and walk on...
Do you want to fix this for you?
Then please do this...
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 04:26 PM
Quote:
"You are the moth my friend... choose the moon... not the flame... only you can do that... and you are not helpless... unless you want to be... because it serves you...
Love this ^^^^
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 04:29 PM
KD give some ideas to google. I think it is a great idea. Yes my W is an expert at pushing buttons. She even threw a new dig in last night about me and a friend that had a falling out. She said I could see why he wouldn't want to be friends with you. I just said we are reconciling as we speak W. But she is a real pro you have this right. arent they all. I wish i could be less reactive and the funny thing is i have time to prepare for it and still failed
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 04:39 PM
Also final question. Do you think W realizes after these episodes of rage that she is wrong. I know she would never admit it but do you think WAS's know they are out of line when they are spewing this stuff out of her mouth. Seems the next after she calms down a little and not so upset.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 04:46 PM
No, she is not wrong...
Because no matter how the logic might not fit... or even factual inaccuracies...
The WAS is actually using facts as an expression of feelings... and feelings can be neither right nor wrong...
Hope that makes sense...
Because no matter how the logic might not fit... or even factual inaccuracies...
The WAS is actually using facts as an expression of feelings... and feelings can be neither right nor wrong...
Hope that makes sense...
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 04:58 PM
Perfect sense
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 05:00 PM
Net- I haven't read all your posts but many of your recent ones. Sorry about your tough time.
I'm not as huge of a proponent as some of the vets on here with sacking up/manning up but I think you need to stand up for yourself and set some boundaries.
I would not allow my w to verbally attack me as you suggest your w is doing to you.
Have you tried to set a boundary regarding this and what is the consequence if she doesn't respect it?
I'm not as huge of a proponent as some of the vets on here with sacking up/manning up but I think you need to stand up for yourself and set some boundaries.
I would not allow my w to verbally attack me as you suggest your w is doing to you.
Have you tried to set a boundary regarding this and what is the consequence if she doesn't respect it?
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 06:05 PM
What kind of boundary not like I can say I'd leave her
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 07:45 PM
When she gets on you. Just look at her dead in the eye and say that you will not be talked to like that anymore. Say it flat with no emotion but in a way that she knows you mean business. And then just walk away. No matter what she says after, just keep walking. You can't let your anger get to you.
No sense letting a crazy person make you crazy.
No sense letting a crazy person make you crazy.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 09:44 PM
How did you guys determine when enough is enough? Kids or not. This has been going on for almost 3 years
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 10:11 PM
My emotions keep ping ponging every day on just giving her what she wants a D. I almost think the only thing holding me back is the kids and that isn't right.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 10:15 PM
Breathe..............
It may not be right, but it is certainly understandable.
Breathe..............
I don't recall, but have you consulted an attorney? If not, you might want to make an appointment.
Quote:
I almost think the only thing holding me back is the kids and that isn't right.
It may not be right, but it is certainly understandable.
Breathe..............
I don't recall, but have you consulted an attorney? If not, you might want to make an appointment.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/19/12 10:27 PM
I'm trying to breathe but at some point 2thepoint it takes "2". My kids and family is worth fighting for but we need to get our concerns out on the table. I have seen 2 lawyers and they both said divorce [censored] try to reconcile
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/20/12 12:26 AM
We can't give you an answer. That is up to you unfortunately. I used to spend alot of energy like you on worrying and wondering about what my W was going to do. I decided to channel that energy into myself and only myself.
The problem with a "timeline" is that you will always have expectations. Once you let that thought go, things happen. Look up the Stockdale paradox. That may put things in perspective.
The problem with a "timeline" is that you will always have expectations. Once you let that thought go, things happen. Look up the Stockdale paradox. That may put things in perspective.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/20/12 12:47 AM
Originally Posted By: netmaster
I'm trying to breathe but at some point 2thepoint it takes "2". My kids and family is worth fighting for but we need to get our concerns out on the table. I have seen 2 lawyers and they both said divorce [censored] try to reconcile
OK, so it would appear that you would like to reconcile your marriage. However, your posts increasingly demonstrate the opposite. If you desire reconciliation, then you really have to get good at the DB stuff. When your W goes off, stick to your boundary of civil discourse and if it an't happening, then walk away.
When you engage, you drive her deeper in her rage which in turn drives her further away from you and closer to divorce. Get good at DB, re-read the books, detach more and GAL. These efforts will serve you best if in fact reconciliation is your goal.
If divorce for you is the path you feel is best, then you know what to do.
It is time to make a choice and stick to it. Wouldn't you agree?
Also, don't feel like you are alone in this. We all are struggling with the same concerns and challenges as you. None of this is easy! You will have good and bad days. Mark the good days and discard the bad ones. That will sustain when the road gets rough!
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/20/12 02:05 AM
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/20/12 04:30 AM
Mr. Bond did you ever reconcile
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/20/12 10:53 AM
Not yet.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/20/12 12:32 PM
Net, being here is not just about reconciling even tho that's what brings us here after the bomb when all we can think about is, how can I live without Spouse?
Being here and digging deep is about saving yourself, making yourself into the person you want to be, being able to create your own happiness.
The statistics are that 50% of all first marriages fail and 60% of second marriages.
Why do you think that is?
If you were totally over W and you got into another R, how would you be different? Not what kind of woman you would choose, nothing about her cycles.
How would YOU be different?
Being here and digging deep is about saving yourself, making yourself into the person you want to be, being able to create your own happiness.
The statistics are that 50% of all first marriages fail and 60% of second marriages.
Why do you think that is?
If you were totally over W and you got into another R, how would you be different? Not what kind of woman you would choose, nothing about her cycles.
How would YOU be different?
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/20/12 06:33 PM
I would be honest, trustworthy, loyal, caring, and a better listener. I would try not to be so intense with less anxiety. That is what I am working on today. It is hard work
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/21/12 02:08 PM
Yes, it is hard work.
Tell us how you would be honest.
Tell us how you would be honest.
Re: Recently Seperated Part 8 - 04/22/12 01:17 AM
about everything. My upbringing. No hiding any secrets. No bs crap with FB or txt. Just open honest relationship