I hope that I can stay married to the woman I love and have been married to for almost 27 years. Although we both have made mistakes I know that the bulk is on me. Early in our marriage(early 1990s) I had an affair and she retaliated with her own - we survived the divorce after a few months of separation. Since then we have had a few more instances of either physical or emotional infidelity. For me it was in 2004 when she again had refused me sex for months and I told her that if she did not want to, to give me the OK to go out of the marriage for sex - she did and I did with the same woman (only because of convenience). Since then she has had at least one mental affair 2009(and it did not become physical because I got involved). Recently she was having too many calls back and forth and deleted texts with a friend who lives a few hours away and I told her that it bothered me and that I thought it was too much (he had just gone though a divorce) She informed that she had been deleting texts from him for a while since she did not know how I was going to blow things up. Anyway this went on for a while and eventualy I e-mailed the other woman whom had been married recently (living in a totally different state) to congratulate her. My wife found out (and she believes rightly so that this was my 'payback' for her long distance friendship). So correctly so that was the last straw for her. Althought it sounds terrible we have a very strong and close family - she is amazing and I am actually a good guy. She has informed that we will be divorced in August after we go on a cruise that we have already booked in late July. As of today we are still in the same home, same bed and she wears her wedding ring. There is no verbal or physical intamacy. I am trying to stay away and not tell her that I love her, call her etc - but it is very tough. I know it does not sound like it, but our marriage is worth saving. Any advice is welcome. Thanks
She has informed that we will be divorced in August after we go on a cruise that we have already booked in late July.
Welcome to the board.
Well that sounds convient, how are you going to be divorced?
Has she filed?
Have you filed?
Divorce = SPACE
She is asking for SPACE, give it to her.
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
I'm assuming you're here for help, so just to warn you, some of it might be pretty harsh, but it will help you to get on the right track.
First of all, did you and your W ever get counseling for your FIRST infidelities? Seems like you two are rather dysfunctional when dealing with each others needs.
Next, you need to read DB or DR so you understand the concepts described here.
Most importantly, keep posting. Write more about your marital history and not just about the infidelity. Obviously neither of your needs were met by the other in a healthy way. Describe some of those conflicts.
Thank you for the advices. Our marriage through all of the described turmoil has actually been amazing. We have shared numerous great time, from travel alone, travel with the kids, many intimante time alone together, dancing, cruising,and many events with my very large family that she loves and they love her. My wife is an amazing daughter and mom. Her mom is actually one of my biggest proponent - she basically knows everything except now she is not feeling well and does not know (at least from me) that her daughter wants out - I know not to say anything to her. She spends a lot of time with us but never interferes. She knows the mistakes that both of us have made but she also see the love that we naturally demonstrate and the unity of our family. As recently as February my wife and I being recent empty nesters were having some of the best time of marriage then I reacted the way I mentioned in my original post. I gave her the last straw. My wife expands in her mind what really happened although I know that the real story is bad enough and probably deserves her divorce demands. She did not wear the ring yesterday yet she called me for a stupid thing where she has been strictly texting me. She is very hurt and my first prayer everyday and the last one fo each day is for her to find peace - then my second one is for reconcialitaion.
How do I best use the time? I am concerned with GAL since I believe she will assummed the worse.
Yes we received counceling the first time up. Frankly I thought they were moving us closer to divorce. I think the first time around we fixed the problem because she still loved me and the kids were younger. The kids are now 19 and 22 and I don't think there is much love on her end anymore (I adore her). I am hoping that other things besides love keep around and maybe we can build the love back up. Other things like 27 years of marvelous experiences, 2 amazing kids, a very tight family unit (believe or not) including extended family, and all of the plans that we had for our future TOGETHER.
As I posted previously my wife of 27 years wants to get a divorce in about 4 months.
I am still in the house and sharing same bed I am guessing until August.
She has good reasons to want to divorce me I have been the main instigator (although she has not been a saint).
Bottom line I don't want a divorce but she is a very determined and strong woman and I see it happening.
What to do now?
I need to do a balancing act (I think) between giving her space (and hope that helps change her mind) and show her that I mean to get help with my jealousy, etc.
It is very tough to be in the same house and not tell her I love her, kiss her, etc - of course she does not respond to any of that.
I told her that I was going to get into some activites to saty out of hair.
How should I handle this situation?
By Letting Go and making yourself happy.
STOP TRYING TO FIX THIS.
Maybe you made some mistakes.
Do you think you BROKE your wife?
I think not.
So you can not FIX someting that you did not break.
She has to fix herself.
Are you going to let her?
I can relate ti how hard it is not to say ILY, when you're around each other. How do you know the conversation is over without saying, "I love you"? Or how to say good bye or hello?
But you have to stop. When you say it, it only reminds her how much she feels differently right now. You say she doesn't respond, but she does, inside. It pushes her away.
When you say ILY, it is about your needs - your need to feel loved back and your need to make her feel like staying. Those aren't her needs right now. She doesn't believe the things you say.
You have to give her space. Take the time to read the Divorce Remedy. Learn about the last resort technique. Don't tell her you can be different, show her -to that takes time because she doesn't believe you. Fine out what doing a 180load means and get on it.
Don't tell her you can be different, show her -to that takes time because she doesn't believe you. Fine out what doing a 180load means and get on it.
Lol. That's the last time I try posting from my phone.
Don't tell her you can be different, show her -that takes time because she doesn't believe you. Find out what doing a 180 means and get on it.
Have you been to therapy cuz if you don't feel physical intimacy with your W before you would stray. How have you tackled that issue??
I hope I don't sound harsh but this is what we all mean by work on yourself! The only person you can change is YOU!
Thanks - all of this advice is very helpful. I will follow the last resort technique. Questions in order to do what Always Trying is telling me - show her. How do I do that in conjuction with the last resort. Her main complaint about me is that I am jealous (which I am - I am going to a counselor for that) and the other woman that I keep bringing into our lives (whom I have not been with for about a decade but e-mailed her to retaliate for her 'friendhip'. How do I show those changes - any thoughts? Also do I make b-fast for her and do other little things that sometimes I did before? How about GAL - is she going to think that I am fooling around? Do I tell her where I am going eventhough I don't think she cares? Thanks
As long as you feel that you want to retaliate due to something she's done.....your M won't heal. You have to be the leader in your M & family.
Do the two of you have a Pastor or Priest?
So have you read DB or DR?
At this point she is not interested in talking to a third party (counselor, priest, etc). She has actually been for a time a minister in the Catholic Church and it would be really good for her to speak to some of her good friends who are from the church they know us very well. But her very strong personality and determination will not allow her to get advice from anyone.
I am reading DR but was told to concentrate on the last resort technique which I am following as best I can. Of course I have gotten closer to God and I am getting counseling for my jealousy/vindictiveness. I am not sure how to demonstrate all of this or even if I should. For now I am leaving her alone as much as possible and hearing all of your advice to give her time and let her fix herself while I deal with my own insecurity issues.
One important thing to remember is to take all advice on here with a grain of salt. If you want real answers, talk to a DB coach. Don't take what posters (even myself) as the gospel.
For you, the LRT means that you tell her that you're fine with the D. But your actions don't need to stop. I'm not suggesting you go over the top, but you have to show yourself as happy. GAL doesn't necessarily mean that you go out, but that you are having a life of your own. Do something that you've put off before that you enjoyed doing. Do it because it makes you happy and NOT because it might get a reaction from your W.
I think it's okay to do little things for your W here and there. After all you are still living together. Be polite and be the best MAN you can be. There's no way to "show" her that you won't be jealous, etc. It all boils down to trust. Show her little ways that she can trust in you.
For example, if you say you're going to be somewhere at a certain time, do it. Be trustworthy. If the two of you are somewhere where there are other men, then act like it doesn't bother you.
If you stop being nice to her you will show that you're still vindictive. Show that you're the better man.
Key things about this weekend - I was with her all weekend my son was home from college and we did things around the house since she wants to get it ready to sell. I did things that I think will please her (making the bed, bar-b-q, cleaning the cars, etc).
Yesterday Sunday she actually asked me if I wanted sex (not make love) and of course we did. I told her how much I love her and that I am making changes in my life to make her happier. It was very emotional she never cries but went into the bathroom and teared up. I did not know what to do stay with her or give her space. I told her I did not want to loose her but would do what she wanted to. What is my next course of action? Do I continue leaving her alone? Do I say anything about the love making? I believe on her part it was more of a physical need than an emotional need.
Please give me advice - This morning SHE wanted to make love again (did the same on Sunday), she let me hold her and kiss her. I thought things were getting better. Today at 10 am she sent me the divorce papers via e-mail (she is a divorce attorney so she did them herself). I told her via text that I love her and would do what she wanted to do. WHAT SHOULD I DO NOW? DO I ASK WHAT THIS MORNING MEANT? I of course will get an toorney involved on my side. PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR THOUGHTS!!
First of all, you have to stay calm. She sent you the papers but that doesn't mean you have to respond. Don't ask her about the ML. Act as if you were able to get some and let it slide. It is hard as hell for you, but don't lose your cool.
Deep breath. These things take time and time and time. Bond is right... no need to respond. You don't have to actively fight it but you don't need to accelerate it either.
She wants space, give it to her. The ML thing gets confusing. My W and I were doing that for a while there after the bomb drop... I know it played havoc with my emotions and mental state. So think about whether it's worth that to you.
she is confused.
Very.
I told her how much I love her and that I am making changes in my life to make her happier.
You can't talk your way out of something you acted your way into.
Man you are in the fire quick. But it's ok.
don't panic it ain't over until you say it is.
I am famous on here for these words:
When you said your vows. Did you say?
"I will love and honor you all the days of my life...
Until you are confused and scared, So scared that you run away, So scared that you don't know how to show love to me.
Then
I won't"
Is that what you meant?
Now is the time for you to figure out who you are.
What those words meant.
They have never had more importance than now.
For what you choose in the face of this tragedy willl define your life and yourself.
So
What kind of man do you desire to be?
What are you prepared to do for your M if you are not assured it can be saved?
Thanks -This morning she said she wanted to talk. She said that we can not argue about this everyday (I freaked when I received the papers) or she would move out. That she wants me to sign the papers (I told her that there are changes that need to be made and that I will get them to an attorney)and then she said I don't know what the future will bring. The next sentence from her was that she needs to be on her own and that I need to be on my own to figure it out. Then she asked if I wanted to have sex -of course we did. It was passionate as always.
I told her that I would sign the papers because I love her but I did not want a divorce and would try to change her mind before August (when she wants to file). She had told me in a text the day she sent me the papers that if we had a chance we would have to start at the beginning - so I also told her today, that if the divorce happens we would start dating again because I might divorce my wife but I was not going to loose my wife.
I guess all of this is against the LRT but I think(?) that it was the right thing to say. I believe that her personality will not allow her to back down from the signing of the papers and maybe even the filing - but I think she is not sure that is why she is still sleeping in the same bed and she has given herself until August. I told her that between now and the August there can not be any other man or woman involved and that we needed to do things together (dinners, beach, etc) and she said fine. I know this is very far from over any thoughts on what I should be doing?
Yes. Stop doing everything that you just did. Even the ML part. She's doing that to make her feel less guilty. She's not doing it with you on an emotional level, she's doing it to placate you.
"I told her that I would sign the papers because I love her but I did not want a divorce and would try to change her mind before August "
Never say something like that. Just do it. You don't sign the papers because you love her. You respect her right to make her own decisions, but don't do it because you "love her". It makes you a martyr, but she's not going to want to come back to that.
"The next sentence from her was that she needs to be on her own and that I need to be on my own to figure it out."
What utter nonsense. When she starts saying things like what SHE feels YOU should be doing with your life. Stop her and say that you don't 'need' to do anything. That is your decision as much as leaving is hers.
Thanks Mr. Bond. I read your response today and I agree I need to follow more of that advice.
Saturday was surreal - she sat on my lap and told me that she felt so much better after she had given me the D -papers. I told her I would sign them this week. She said that she understands that she does not hate or dislike me but that she wants to 'care' for me. We made love to me again. Later that night watching TV she came and sat right next to me like the old days and I caressed her. At night I held hand like the old days, etc.
On Sunday I made her breakfast and help her clean the bathroom (under remodeling to sell house). She thanked me. Later in the day she told me she did not get much sleep the previous night. I went to get purchase some groceries and brought her some flowers. Later she asked to make love again (all of this love making is way out of character for her). But this time we did not - I kissed her a couple of times and she said she was not in the mood – and that maybe I should leave the house for a while (which I had offered on Saturday if she needed to be alone). I said fine but that two things we must agree on - there would be no other woman or man in our lives during this separation and that she needed to understand that I was not abandoning her (like her dad did when she was 8). When I clarified that ‘deal’ again she said forget about it.
I know I need to give her more space (she is hurting, depressed and confused) – I let my guard down and hopes up after the Saturday events – So I will get papers signed this week (which will cause some more animosity), give her space like I was for a while there (no I love you, no touching including trying to avoid ML) – should I leave the house? August her time-table to file even if I sign them now.
Did you actually read what I wrote? You just repeated it again. Doing so only satisfies her conscience. It's not to get back together with you.
"there would be no other woman or man in our lives during this separation"
What separation? You signed D papers. And while it's nice that you have a timetable, lets be honest, she now has the right to go around and see anyone she wants and there's nothing you can do about it. Don't be surprised if the second that "deadline" passes, she suddenly has a new boyfriend that just "appeared".
"When I clarified that ‘deal’ again she said forget about it."
Because she wants to find someone else to make her feel "happy". She thinks she's unhappy because she believes she knows you. Show her a different side that will change her thinking.
"and that she needed to understand that I was not abandoning her"
That's been your problem. SHE doesn't NEED to do anything you want her to do. YOU want her to feel that she's not abandoning her. But look through the sitch, you didn't abandon her, she abandoned you. So your words were pretty much empty and sounded controlling. Don't be surprised if she turns those words around on you.
"So I will get papers signed this week (which will cause some more animosity),"
This animosity will come from you but you can prevent it. Learn and study everything you can about this so you can deal with it in a healthy manner.
"give her space like I was for a while there (no I love you, no touching including trying to avoid ML) – should I leave the house?"
DO NOT leave the house. In fact, get yourself a makeover pronto. Change your clothes, haircut, cologne, etc. Refresh yourself and get your swagger and b@ll$ back from her. Show her the MAN you are now. It take some work, but it can be done.
Recent events - I saw an attorney and received his comments. I told my wife that I really did not want to give her my comments until May (although I did not tell her my request is because I want to delay it as much as possible and our 27th anniversary is 4/27 and I don't want to deal with it then). She said that was fine. Which was surprising since she has been almost harassing me about the papers.
I am still trying very hard as Mr. Bonds appropriately puts it get my ba!!s back and get some swagger. I am also following his advice of not saying that I am trying to change her mind but just doing it- i.e. I do nice things for her that I did not use to do (running a bath, breakfast sometimes, make the bed sometimes, etc). What do you guys think?
Thanks
"I told my wife that I really did not want to give her my comments until May"
IMHO you should have just told her and then stated what you felt about them. Be assertive and strong.
"I do nice things for her that I did not use to do (running a bath, breakfast sometimes, make the bed sometimes, etc)."
Some of that's going a little overboard. Remember you're her H, not manservant. You want to get her to do those things for you not the other way around.
Aside from the domestic duties, are there any activities that you can do on your own to reclaim yourself? Something that you've always wanted to try but were either to afraid to or didn't want your W to get upset about?
Thanks Mr. Bond- Yes I have told her several times how I feel about the papers and the divorce.
The reason I am doing these type of things is because she has been telling me for many years that I don't do anything for her (I was asked by the DB coach to read a book about the 5 languages of love and I know that one of her ways she wants to be shown love is by 'acts'). Some I am trying diffrent things - and yes I want her to do them for me - and really she did some of them a long time ago. What do you think?
Yes I have not embarked on for example motorcycle lessons because she is has not embarked on anything either. I am not sure if and when I do is that going to start a flood gate of doing things apart from each other - it is not happening now.
Again your commments the other people's comments really help.
Thanks
"Yes I have told her several times how I feel about the papers and the divorce. "
No I mean you should have told he the straight forward facts about what you want out of a D if that ever happened. I'm not talking about emotions. Right now your emotions are coming across as neediness. Start thinking about what you want if you get D'd. Not saying that you have to agree with it, but you always have that as a back-up.
Face the fear upfront so you are not afraid of it anymore. Once you conquer that, nothing can stop you.
"Some I am trying diffrent things - and yes I want her to do them for me - and really she did some of them a long time ago. What do you think?"
So why did she stop? That's what the problem is of many of the WASs, they believe their LBS is the reason why they're unhappy. They think they don't have to put in any effort themselves.
Yes I have not embarked on for example motorcycle lessons because she is has not embarked on anything either."
Who cares? Just do it. Doing something that brings you joy will help to bring your old self back.
"I am not sure if and when I do is that going to start a flood gate of doing things apart from each other - it is not happening now."
Again, who cares? Are you saying that you enjoy following her along like a puppy dog and waiting to see what SHE wants to do? She's a grown woman and not a child that needs to be watched 24/7. She will come back to you when you show a shift in your attitude. When she sees you doing the activities that help you get your swagger back, she may change her mind.
But remember, you're doing it for you. NOT FOR HER.
This past weekend gave me tremendous hope - yet I remain very guarded. We did lots of things together around the house (based on the book I am reading it points out that one of her love language is acts of service - i.e. she wants me to do things for her without being asked). She has started to kiss me on the lips again, Sunday asked me to sit close to her on the couch (as in the past), has allowed me to hug her regularly and I can hold her hand in bed (a 27 year ritual).
This attitude was more prevalent on Saturday and Sunday than it was yesterday (Monday)–it seems to vary. She has not verbalized anything about our status for example she has not mentioned the unsigned divorce papers, but her actions seem to suggest a possible reconciliation.
Our 27th anniversary is this Friday 4/27 – I am not sure how to handle it – I think I will tell her that I have made dinner reservation and see what her reaction is. I don’t know if next week she is going to ask for the papers (since we agreed that I will sign them by 5/1). I believe I need to still give her lots of space, continue to show her (by my actions) some of the changes that I have made (they are real and I expect to continue these changes if we reconcile).
Any thoughts? Thanks
Who has been initiating the physical affection? You say that she "allows" you to hug her. Is that how it seems or does she seem to enjoy them?
I am glad I remained guarded. This past weekend she told me that the reason she is kissing me, letting me hold hand etc is to keep the peace since we have until August. I told her that I did not want any false hope and not to do it again - with the exeption of ML.
Of course (and against the recommendations I have received here) we are still ML. Then Sunday night after we ML I reminded her not to show affection unless she means it. At 5 am on Monday morning we were in bed (we are still sleeping in the same bed) and she came to cuddle with me! What the hell is going on??
I posted this to you before. I don't think you're really getting it.
"Even the ML part. She's doing that to make her feel less guilty. She's not doing it with you on an emotional level, she's doing it to placate you."
Again, she pretty much told you she did it to feel less bad about the situation. If you continue this route, don't be surprised when August rolls around and you're confused and alone.
She hasn't done any of the introspective work that's needed to figure out why she's feeling the way she is. She just know and believes she just wants out.
Now really is the time you need to increase activities on your own.
Mr. Bond (and others) - you are right I will start increasing my activites and leaving her on her own more.
What is your opinion on ML if she initiates it? Should I reject it? How? How do I best use that towards my goal?
Also what about any other show of caring if she initiates it (like the cuddling in bed)? How should I handle that? I told her not to do any of that unless it meant something other than just trying to keep the peace.
Rather than seeing it as a ML session, how about doing something completely different? Like make the sex spontaneous and not just in the bedroom. How about trying a different position or product? You need to shake her out of the belief that life with you will always be the same. Show her the different and more masculine side of you.
Add some excitement and adventure to the intimate actions that you do have with her.
Like with the cuddling in bed. You want her to see you as a man not a teddy bear.
I guess I have not explained myself properly. Out ML sessions now have been the most exciting, different, spontensous and exploring things that she never wanted to before. She is actually very excited about our 'new' ML. That is one of the reasons I have continued them - I see them as new!
My question about the cuddling could have been - what if she wants to hold my hand - should I? Thanks Mr. Bond
I have been using ML since that is the abbreviation used here. But really they have been great sex sessions - less love making and more of everything else.
Okay but who has been coming up with the new things and how far have you gone?
In terms of the hand holding, it's okay, but don't get too excited about them. You want to act as if they're nice, but you can survive without them.
How about doing a totally different activity with your wife? Something outside of both your comfort zones but that you both wanted to try.
From her perspective she has told me that the reason the ML is so good now is because she has 'hated' me in the past and that is why she was holding back on all this good sex - now she does not care therefore... All of the stuff we are doing are my ideas that I have tried in the past and was not allowed.
The act of holding hand or anything like that is not what I am asking about - what I am saying is if she initates something like - what does it tell me... since I have made it clear that I am not interested in any of those expression if they are real.
We are scheduled to go paddleboating something that she has wqnted to try for months...
PS - last night again she hold my hand and I asked what does this is this real or just trying to keep the peace - her response was 'you just don't understand me' I said you are right I totally confused as to what is going on.
Thanks to all for the thoughts and the suggestions.
"she has told me that the reason the ML is so good now is because she has 'hated' me in the past and that is why she was holding back on all this good sex - now she does not care therefore"
And you're fine with this? Makes you sound like a sex toy that can easily be discarded when she finds someone new to have new and exciting sex with.
"her response was 'you just don't understand me' I said you are right"
Then you should have continued that thought and told her flat out that you're not a mindreader. That she should know (since she's a divorce attorney) that you can't be expected to know how she's feeling all the time any more than she should be expected to know how you're feeling.
Tell her that you have been getting mixed messages from her and would like to understand her better. The understanding can start by her telling you first. No game playing.
Then be the man and take charge in doing the actions she enjoys.
You have to start doing some of those activities you wanted to on your own so that she knows that you're not always going to be at her beck and call.
Have you tried initiating sex in different places and in different ways?
Of course I have told her that I can't read her mind and that is why I am confused. And I told her about not playing games as well.
However I just called her and told her that I wanted to respond to the comment last night about I don't underst her. I told her that maybe she did not hear me last night but I wanted to clarify that I am confused about the mixed signals and that I needed her to be more clear about the message - I told her that I wanted her to hear that away from home and away from the bed so that she can understand me better and that I did not expect an answe on the phone but we'll talk about later.
As far as the sex, yes it has been in different places,etc. And yes I think at this time I believe that I like to continue the ML since it is 'new' and exciting and something different than the man she thinks knows. I don't see it as I am been treated as a toy since I am the one incharge in that scenario.
And yes I am starting to do thing on my own,
Thanks
I guess what bothers me is her comment about hating you and then saying that she makes love to you because she no longer cares.
For women, emotional intimacy is a larger thing than the physical. If she finds someone that can flip that emotional intimacy switch for her, that's who she will be going to.
I agree that is partly why I think I need to continue to provide the sex and at least delay her searching for someone else to fill that void.
After my call to her today regarding clarification we have had some texting back and forth and basically she is telling me that and I quote
"I have been telling you this for a while I want the D-papers signed after we make your changes then lets go on the Alaskan trip (her 50th B-day gift) and lets sell the house. Then lets separate and see what happens, divorce or no divorce I think we need to be on our own and I will respect your no other man no other woman wish but I need this".
So at this point I am looking at worse case scenario in August is a separation (it might move to a divorce). So what's my move here? Do I continue with the approach of showing lots of love both verbally and actions? Do I give her more space by GAL? My opinion is that I need to do both (if that makes sense), I have been able to move her from a for sure divorce to a separation. Now I need to continue showing her love but giving her more space (weekends, etc). What do you and others think?
She's on the slash and burn MLC path. Some MLCer's think they need to destroy everything they've built up to go back and do the things they feel they've "missed out" on life.
It comes down to what you want. Do you want to sell your home? Everything she wrote to you was about what she wants. What do you want? And I'm not talking about being married, etc. Do you really want to go on the trip with her after she's signed the papers for D?
As far as the no other man or woman thing, that is totally not enforcable. She's already of a mind that she's single. As a divorce attorney, she's probably seen it all and will not hesitate to go out with someone if the opportunity presents itself. I've seen it time and time again on here. Then once the LBS confronts the WAS about their "agreement" about no other people, the WAS throws it back in the LBS's face and says "I only said that to make you happy!"
Don't fall for that trap. Showing her love doesn't seem to be affecting her. You have to have her "wanting" you. I personally don't think more distance between you is a bad thing. What activities have you been doing on your own? Have you taken up the motorcycle thing?
What do you want?
[quote] Do I continue with the approach of showing lots of love both verbally and actions?[quote]Are you showing her love the way you want to be loved or the way she does? Just something to think about. If you love her and she wants distance then give it to her. If you love her and she wants you close then do that. Do what works.
Thanks for the comments Mr. Bond and Workinghardguy.
I am showing her love her way ('quality' time and acts of services). I spend time with her (as always talking\TV\shopping\etc) and I am doing many things for her many that are new (making the bed, BBQ, filling gas in car, etc). In addition I show her love my way - verbal (I love you/I miss you/etc) and touch.
But as Mr. Bond points out I am not sure that it is working - I am getting mixed messages (she wants the papers signed, yet comes and cuddles with me, caresses my hand, etc and many other mixed messages).
I think I need to do a few things:
1) Give her more space by doing more of my own thing (like the motorcycle, etc)I can really only do this on the weekends when not helping her get the house ready for the sale.
2) Quit showing affection my way (verbal and touch)unless she initiates it.
3) Continue showing love her way - acts of service and 'quality' time (this one only when she asks/wants more time).
4) Continue the sex - I want to do this for a few reasons - it is a lot better than it has ever been (so it is showing a new me - although the one that has changed with regards to this is she), if she is so 'horny' I rather be the one satisfying that need, and frankly because I want it and need it.
Today I am sending her my comments on the D-paper. I am expecting some fall out but the bottom line the changes need to be made for fairness...
Thanks again - any ideas are welcome.
But is moving out of the house what YOU want?
No I don't want to leave the house and I will not. I am going to continue the above mentioned approach.
I have seen more positives than negative signs so far that things are 'better' using this methodology. Yes there have been many very mixed messages and it is because (I think) that she is still not sure what to do.
This weekend again was full of mixed messages and I am still fully expecting for 'her plan' to continue and that I will be presented with a new set of D-papers for my review.
She did not however want any 'free time' this weekend (and I don't either), she continues to show me more and more caring by holding me back, using "we" a lot more in conversations, doing little things for me, etc. However I am fully aware that I have felt this 'hope' before only to be deflated - therefore I am fully expecting the other shoe to drop. If that shoe drops (again) then maybe I need to re-evalute.
"No I don't want to leave the house and I will not. "
Have you told her that? If so, what did she say?
It's hard to predict what your wife will do since she's a divorce attorney. Not saying that she will do something to you, but you never know the behavior of an MLCer. Do you have a lawyer?
Thank-you Mr. Bond it is always good to get thoughts and ideas from you guys/gals.
I do have an attorney.
She is not asking me to leave - I am the one that was thinking if it was better for me to leave now. But after thinking about it and speaking to the DB coach - I decided that the approach that I am taking is the best course available.
This appoach continues to show her on a daily basis what she will miss if we actually separate in August which is the current plan. If we separate the logic is (from the coach) that she will probably miss all of this that I am doing/giving now. If she does not miss it then of course we'll end up divorced.
If on the other hand I leave the house now or stop my curent approach (showing her love, touching, sex, giving her the space that she wants, etc) she will begin to disconnect now and continue to just focus on all of the 'bad' stuff that she has in her mind.
Although she still wants me to sign the D- papers now and she is planning on the separation in August, her convictions have lessen (she has moved from her divorce position to a separation in August to see what happens). In addition now she does not even want space (me leaving her on the weekends, etc) - at least not now.
My position is that I need to do the 4 things I outlined before
and make things as good as possible without asking for pity, begging, etc. And hope that if she decides to separate - she will miss the hell out of me.
It has been about a month since I have posted any updates.
I am happy to report that things have turned around tremendously for us. There is no more talk of divorce or even separation and she has even mentioned on several occasions OUR new house to be purchased. I know it is a work in progress and I hope that soon I am not the only one trying to improve himself as to how to make our marriage stronger.
Things are sort of back to normal which honestly is a not a bad place to be, however it is not the final place I want our marriage to be. It needs to get stronger, it needs to be more trusting, it needs a lot of things to make it better.
I want to thank all of you that provided me with feed back and suggestions. I did a lot of things unorthodox but it worked for me.
I hope that I will not find myself in this spot again, but you never know.
Again thanks and good luck to all.
That's great but you know you have to fill in some details.
That's good news. I would strongly suggest that when the time is right, that the two of you go to some type of MC or marriage retreat. The problem is that she was the one who wanted to leave you. If she doesn't resolve her issue about that, then you may find yourself here again.
Good Luck.
For those of you asking for details - I am not sure what details you want but I can tell you the following. My situation is/was probably very similar to others here.
My 27 year marriage has not been without some major problems along the way even before this last crisis. We have cheated on each other (I started the whole thing – she retaliated), and other major issues (some detailed in previous postings). But we have also had many great times, we have loved each other, we have been financially stable and have to great kids. I have always felt that there is LOVE in our relationship yet the past continues to creep up and get in the way.
I am a jealous and vindictive person when it comes to her however I am a very nice and loving husband and father, a hard worker and I have always shown her how much I love her – I have however shown it mainly my way. My wife too is a very nice person, very bright and beautiful (is 50 looks like 35) she will do anything for anyone. But compared to me she is not demonstrative as to her love.
Although I was given the divorce papers we never separated, as a matter of fact we kept sleeping on the same bed.
I say all of this to give you some basic background since I believe that the reason we are working this out is because there is LOVE there- if not I don’t think we could save our marriage because of all the baggage. I am the type of person that deals with issues head on and tries to resolve the problem by first doing research, asking for advice and listening to all - then making up my mind as to my course of action.
Like you I know my spouse better than anyone else and I know the real story better than anyone else. I know the details of how we got into this situation, what she did what I did, what she has said and what I have said. Be really honest with yourself as to the story – if not you can’t address the real issues. You also know what her/his hot buttons are, you know what a certain body language tells you, you know that person inner feelings and you also know what that person has been telling you forever that is good and bad about your relationship, etc.
My actions:
I did a lot of research on the web – read many articles regarding the situation and what they had done and not done to try to resolve it.
I also read many of the postings on this board concentrating on the ones that describe similar situations.
I posted on this board and received many good pieces of advice; some I applied to one degree or another, some did not fit my situation.
I received coaching from a DB coach (Lori). We spoke four times. She provided me with excellent advice and what to concentrate on at that given time. In the initial conversation she suggested I read the last resort technique on the DR book and to also read the Five Love Languages (by Gary Chapman). For me reading the latter mentioned book was one of the keys to my reconciliation. It reaffirmed what I already knew – how she wants to be loved – and it gave me ideas on how to make that happen. I put a lot of effort into showing her the new husband –and how this new husband was prepared to love her.
I must admit I did not follow the LRT totally because as I said before, I know my wife better than anyone. I did reduced the chase, but not entirely – for example I reduced the frequency of contact, I stopped asking for reassurance and reduced the ‘I love you’. I did not GAL because I felt that if I did that she would think that I was in agreement with the goal to get divorce. One of her love languages is quality time so instead I continued to be by her side (you need to swallow your pride to do this) even thought she pretty much just ignored me.
One thing that she has always said to me (without specifics) is that “you (meaning me) never do anything for me”. In the Chapman books it tells you that that person’s love language (there is usually more than one) is Acts of Service. I was not sure what she wanted me to do for her so I tried many things, make the bed, bar-b-q, gas/clean the car, etc. I did not become her lap dog but my goal was/is to save my marriage so I was/am ready to try anything. I don’t feel any less of a man for doing these things as a matter of fact I feel like she deserves much of it.
I also started seeing a psychiatrist to help me with my jealousy. I let her know that I was/am working on some of my issues.
In no way am I suggesting that this is the formula to fix anything – I am just giving you some of the details (there was a lot more of course) of what I did.
I know and I agree with Mr. Bond when he tells me that we still need a lot of work to make it right and lasting – I hope that I can talk her into some counseling, etc. But for now it just feels good that the first major hurdle is behind us.
I hope that I don't find myself in this situation again but it does take two to tango.
Thanks again to all - and good luck!
Thank you iwfi! I love to see someone who has a success, and what they did. It can provide just a little nugget of "hey, I didn't think of that!" for us to put in our tool belts. But mostly, hopeful and encouraging to read that even when being ignored, or when the days seem long, it can change.
I'm so happy for you!
Love is like a garden. Continue taking care of it and it will flourish!