I've been wanting to use that title for a while now.
Here are my old threads:
Youngster's WAW Chooses OM, Now She's in Love! Youngster's WAW Still Chooses OM! Youngster Questions Reality, WAW Moves On... To reply to those on my last thread:
--Rick & JB: I too am very glad about the trip to the L. I can now breathe a sigh of relief.
--Val: I think you're right that anger is definitely a part of the process, as well as jealousy and repulsion given the A. If I didn't feel these things every now and again, I might not have a working brain or heart. But paralysis is no good, either, and I'm glad to say that I'm not going back there again.
Last night, I spent about two hours talking to Kirby Girl. I told her that I'm not looking for anything serious right now, and she said that she's not, either. So I'm glad that I won't be breaking any hearts any time soon.
Today, after I woke up, I went jogging. I found out last night that I've been running incorrectly -- landing on my heel rather than the middle of my foot. That causes that "pounding" sound and really slows you down. I jogged for some time the "right" way -- ouch! My calves are going to feel that for the next couple of days.
When I went shopping, I tried on some jeans just to get a feel for what I'll need to buy very soon. I found that I've dropped 2-4 inches off of my waist depending on the type of pants (jeans are tighter than slacks for some reason). And I look good in better-fitting pants, too!
When I got home, I sent W this e-mail.
Hi there:
Just wanted to let you know that I stopped by the credit union and spoke to ___ about the confusion we talked about last weekend. Basically, I didn't void the paperwork by signing it; I will not need to be present when you meet with your notary to sign; and you will need to sign those documents even though they won't technically be entered after I refinance the car. Long story short, everything is fine. I would meet with a notary as soon as possible so you can just give me that paperwork when I stop by on Friday; might as well save yourself the stamp and envelope.
Also, I asked her about the VISA card. She said that you can refinance the card into your own name over the phone and transfer the balance over. You might as well go ahead and do that whenever possible. I still have my card, but I'm going to shred it tomorrow, so there's no need for my name to remain. I spoke with American Express, and it sounds like I might be able to assume total responsibility whenever I get the official copies of the separation paperwork, which will be soon.
If you have any questions whatsoever, ______ is the one to call as she is up-to-date on everything. In case you don't still have her number, it's _____ x_____ (I'm assuming that last part is her extension).
Have a safe trip, and see you on Friday,
WCF I did speak with American Express and found that we will have to stay joint on the card unless I can produce the S paperwork. Fortunately, W is still responsible for the card, so if she tries to charge anything to it, I will stop making payments and they will come after her for payment, not me.
You may also note that my tone in the e-mail was very friendly. It just felt natural to write this way. I feel that acting sunny and well-wishing toward her must be very confusing. Given her typical nasty behavior, she probably expects me to be cold and rude in turn. It just has to knock her for a loop.
Today, after I woke up, I went jogging. I found out last night that I've been running incorrectly -- landing on my heel rather than the middle of my foot. That causes that "pounding" sound and really slows you down. I jogged for some time the "right" way -- ouch! My calves are going to feel that for the next couple of days.
No other note than to watch this. You should run the way the feels comfortable without trying to change your from too much. You can do form drills for that. If you look at a lot of elite distance runners they heel strike as a well.
Yes your calves will feel it, I can give you some good shoe suggestions that help promote the mid foot strike if you are interested.
I'm a 20+ year runner. Sorry to go off the path a little.
Today, after I woke up, I went jogging. I found out last night that I've been running incorrectly -- landing on my heel rather than the middle of my foot. That causes that "pounding" sound and really slows you down. I jogged for some time the "right" way -- ouch! My calves are going to feel that for the next couple of days.
No other note than to watch this. You should run the way the feels comfortable without trying to change your from too much. You can do form drills for that. If you look at a lot of elite distance runners they heel strike as a well.
Yes your calves will feel it, I can give you some good shoe suggestions that help promote the mid foot strike if you are interested.
I'm a 20+ year runner. Sorry to go off the path a little.
too esoteric?
If it felt comfortable the way that I was running before, I probably would have kept on. But it really didn't. I hated the way that my feet slapped the ground so hard. Doing it this new way feels like I get more spring in my step. More "gazelle"-like.
I'm all for suggestions, especially from long-time runners. I used to loathe any kind of exercise with a passion, especially running, but the last year or so I've really been getting into it. I could see it becoming a passion if I keep it up enough.
I guess this ties into DB somehow.
For my money running is one of the best GAL activities. It can relieve stress, boost endorphins, alleviate some depression, keep you fit, etc.
it can also be done by yourself and you can just get in touch with yourself and do some good thinking.
But it can also lead to meeting other people. @ races or running clubs runners are pretty social people.
Of course, I'm biased. any questions ask away.
I thought the letter was nicely done too.
Got a reply from my W today.
Thanks for the info. I will try to get that paperwork notarized before Friday, but I work all week and then am traveling (I don't land in _______ until 2:00 am on Friday morning), so it might have to wait until after the holidays. Your Visa card is void now anyway because the old card was cancelled. I've already talked to [the credit union] about re-financing the card in my own name, and I don't qualify by myself right now, so that will have to wait until after I get a better paying job in the next year or so. I assume that refinancing the [car] will have to wait too.
I replied very briefly and let her know that while there was no rush for the refinance, there was no need to wait for it, either. All she needs to do is sign those papers and that's it! What I think is weird is that she was breathing down my neck about getting the car re-financed a few weeks ago but now sounds like she wants to leave things the way they are. I don't get it.
I talked to Kirby Girl last night and asked if she wanted to go out to the movies or something on Friday. I sure as hell don't want to be caught staying home alone when my W's in town. If KG can't make it, then heck, I'll go by myself. I have Fandango bucks to use up anyway.
I also wanted to mention that I finally got the thing in the mail that was hinted at a week ago. Inside was a gift basket filled with a couple of gift cards adding up to $30 and a card that was signed by everybody at my old branch. It sounds like the girl that I used to work with there organized the whole thing, even though I mentioned my sitch to her months ago. I noticed that both she and another girl wrote considerably more than the others. The other girl even added her phone number in case I needed to call her for emotional support. Both of them are about my age and went through D's, too.
All in all, it was a very welcome surprise. I'm finding more and more that everybody else in my life other than my W treats me with love and kindness.
WAW are funny creatures... who knows what they are thinking or why they are saying what they do sometimes.
Way to go on being proactive about the GAL with Kirby Girl. You guys have talked so I say "Go and Enjoy her company!"
"I'm finding more and more that everybody else in my life other than my W treats me with love and kindness."I find this true in my life as well. I'm a big believer that you get what you put out.
You sound like you are doing great West! Keep on keeping on!
One of my fellow D'd co-workers worked at my branch today, so I had some time to talk to her both in person and through e-mail. I picked up on the feeling that she's searching for support for her own sitch, too. She's trying to D her ex and he refuses to sign the papers, demands spousal support, wants certain clauses put in, etc. I sent her my phone number in case she ever needed to talk -- same thing she offered me a few days before.
She noted that she and the other girl came up with the gift basket idea because they know how much this sux. I like knowing that these girls are looking out for me. Makes me feel much less alone in this.
Got a reply from my W today:
Okay...[coming over on Friday] might be awkward because we're having some relatives there from _____ and I think they'll be there about 7:00, but it's fine. I was able to get those documents notarized so I can give them to you on Friday. I replied:
Good stuff about the documents, thanks. If Friday's too awkward, I can always drop the rabbit off the night before if your parents wouldn't mind keeping him an extra night. I can pick up the documents when I get back from [visiting family].I can't know exactly how she'll respond, but I think that I have a very good idea.
Thanks for the check-in, Val! Hope you're doing well, too!
I got a reply from my W about the possibility of dropping the rabbit off on Thursday instead:
Friday is fine, provided that it is closer to 7:00 instead of 8:00. See you then. Gee, how did I know? I should have bet money on it.
On a more serious note, today is the six-month anniversary of the start of my sitch. I had no idea this thing was going to stretch on as long as it has. I'm still very confused in some ways -- while I still love who my W once was and want to hang in there to see if that side of her comes back, I don't know if she can be the partner for me. I need someone stable and self-sufficient, and....she's not.
I still don't think this is over, though, not by a long shot. Her power games and attempts to keep me in line indicate, in a very weird way, that she still feels connected to me and acts out of fear rather than true malice. We will see where she ends up.
On a positive note, I donated blood tonight. I'm very happy about it -- for some reason, my sitch has caused me to become a lot more charitable.
Just got done dropping off the rabbit at my in-laws while W was there. There are good things and bad things.
Pro: It was very quick, which is what I wanted -- I was only there for five minutes. I looked good, if I must say so myself. I changed into some nice clothes (a tighter shirt to show how much weight I've lost) and also got my hair cut yesterday.
My W answered the door and started joking with me right away. I was glad to see that she was surprisingly warm and friendly during this encounter. We were cracking jokes as though nothing had transpired between us.
Con: Everybody felt very awkward, especially my ILs. Also, after my W gave me the auto refinance papers, she gave me a look and a nod that said, "Okay, you should probably get going now." (I shouldn't really be surprised by this one -- she's been wanting me to stay away from her family for a long time now.)
Lastly, it was pure torture seeing her in person. I looked at her and felt that connection to her grow vibrant again, as though no time had passed. She looked absolutely beautiful to me, even though she just had her hair pulled back in a pony tail. I felt a sensation like I wanted to hold her close and kiss her. (I didn't feel these things as much during her "rabbit visit" in October.)
Summation: It could have been worse. I'm going out to see "Sherlock Holmes" with Kirby Girl, and then I'll be headed home for the holidays tomorrow after work. I'm very happy about that last one.
"My W answered the door and started joking with me right away."
Mark that one in your book of positives and ignore all the other stuff. Only record the positives and avoid the negatives. Do what works as Sandi2 likes to say.
Have a Merry Christmas and safe travels!
Thanks, 2. I could always afford to be more positive in a situation like this!
X-mas weekend was awesome. Lots of great food, great visits with people (especially little sis), and great presents. I got quite a bit of money (which will mostly go to new clothes -- no more baggy, ill-fitting pants) and one of the new Kindles, an upgrade from my old one. I'll be giving the old one to my little sis, who also loves to read. Conditions on the road to and from were excellent.
W texted me today to ask when I would be stopping by to pick up the rabbit. I thought this was strange as she had originally told me that she would be leaving early this morning, but I answered around 4.
When I got there, I found that W was still there -- apparently, her flight would not be until much later in the night. I couldn't help but notice that W seemed unhappy. Not quite the summery demeanor that she had on Friday -- I chalked it up to the fact that she had to say goodbye to the rabbit and/or her folks, but who really knows. I adopted a very headstrong, "act-as-if" kind of demeanor and did not try to ask too many questions.
This was our brief exchange.
M: Hope the rabbit wasn't too much trouble.
W: Oh, no, he was fine. Did you have a good Christmas?
M: Yes, yes I did. Great food, great visits...you know.
W: Yeah. Sorry we couldn't keep the rabbit longer.
M: Yeah, I know you don't get to see him that often...
W: No, I meant so you could visit your family longer.
M: It's fine. I had to come back and do some stuff anyway. [My counseling appt. is tomorrow]
W: What kind of stuff?
M: Oh, you know, errands and things. Taking care of business.
W (sounding annoyed): I'm not sure what that means but okay. [folding her arms and looking at me in a way that I know means "I'm wondering about you"] I have to tell you that it doesn't look like you're eating enough.
M: I am. I just eat a lot healthier.
W: No, you look like you're not eating what you should. [pointing at my face] I can see your cheek bones.
M: No, really, I'm fine. I just eat good stuff and work out a lot.
W: Okay.
M: I'm going to get going then. Have a great flight.
W also gave me lettuce that had been bought specifically for the rabbit. There was a lot left over. This was odd as I'm sure that the ILs could have easily used it up for salad.
I'll admit that I was concerned about W's comment. I can see my cheekbones since my cheeks have sunk a little, and I can easily see my ribs when I take off my shirt. But I don't think that I'm starving myself. I just recently went to the doctor. I'm sure that if something was wrong, either he or the nurse would have told me.
It almost feels like my W has to believe that I'm starving myself because I'm depressed or something. I'm not sure why I have that feeling. I just do.
Forgot to add this part of the conversation:
W: Sorry we couldn't get the divorce papers signed right now. [have to wait until six months after papers are signed by judge]
M: It's fine. Gotta do what the courts tell us, you know.
Not sure why I felt compelled to add this. Just felt it might be important to mention.
Hon - why not get an objective input on your weight? Try using a bmi calculator like this one
http://www.bmicalculator.org/ - do you come up underweight on the chart?
(Just concerned because people with OCD can slip into eating disorders - would be a good idea to make sure you're keeping in a healthy bmi range).
Thanks for the suggestion, kml. I tried it out with a couple of different height measurements and found that I came up "overweight" both times. I don't think I'm particularly obese, but at least I'm not starving, either. On a related note, I have not given my OCD very much thought at all in the last few months. I'm not sure exactly what it was that I had, but it definitely seemed like my W and her reactions to my thoughts were the common denominator.
Among the many things I did today, I met for the first time with my EAP-appointed counselor. I like her a lot. Contrary to the C's I've seen before, she's very vibrant and openly displays a sense of humor that helped me feel comfortable around her. She is also solution-based, which is good since I only get 4 or 5 more sessions with her for free.
I dove right in and told her about my sitch. She really reacted when I told her about my W telling me explicit details about her sex life with OM -- said something like, "What the he!!? That crosses so many boundaries, it's unreal! It's almost like emotional torture!" She seemed surprised that I sat there and took it, although I explained why I did.
She also really latched on to what I told her about still wanting to be with my W despite the way that I'm being treated and sometimes feeling like an R with her would not be good for me. She said, "You seem as though you are in limbo, and I think that's really why you came here." Perhaps it was, among other things.
The rest of the day was great. A lot of stuff got done. (BTW, running in a heavy rain to Massive Attack's "Inertia Creeps" is an awesome experience.
)
Happy Holidays West!
I'm so glad to hear that the holidays went well. I'm like the idea of kindles but I think I would miss the feel of a book in my hand. It goes so well with my coffee.
You handled the conversation very well. Great DBing. Mark it as a positive and if you feel inclined.. Write down what worked to get u guys to this kind of communication because it is quite the 180.....
..... Of course whilst keeping no expectations and waiting for the pullback!
I too sometimes get to a point where I've just GOT to read a regular book. As cool as Kindles are, they will never kill the book, period. (I do admit that it sure helps when I read thick, heavy tomes like "Infinite Jest" or "Under the Dome.")
I'm glad that you noticed that interactions with my W have been somewhat more positive than they once were -- I've noticed, too. It's hard to know if it means anything. Maybe she's getting the idea that I'm going dark and that's going to stick, or perhaps she realizes that ranting and raving will only push me away further. Who knows.
Yesterday, I got an e-mail from my W. It was a forward of a message from the local "bunny spa," which is basically a great service for rabbits in the area to clean them up and give them a check-up for only a $10 "suggested donation." W wrote, "I keep getting these emails. But I thought I'd forward this one to you in case you're interested in taking [the rabbit]." I replied and said, "Thanks, I appreciate it."
Again, the tone just feels different. She may just genuinely want the best for the rabbit, but at least she's being nice in giving me the info.
Just a quick update.
I enjoy talking to Kirby Girl quite a bit. Where my W could be really uptight and critical, KG is mellow and welcoming. She has been encouraging me to loosen up and let go of my stinkin'-thinkin' ways.
I've still been working out pretty regularly -- I hit several muscle areas a couple of different times a week, and I alternate between jogging and walking almost every day. My strength and stamina are improving. I look in the mirror and feel really good about my body, which is something that I couldn't say before.
I've also been getting into men's fashion. For years, I was a pretty simple "T-shirt & jeans" kind of guy. Now I'm looking more at nice button-up shirts, dress slacks, sport coats, and ties. You won't catch me as a model in GQ or Esquire, but I'm starting to look snappier than I did. I can't explain it -- updating my wardrobe just makes me feel better. (I bought a lot of great clothes at marked-down prices at the mall with X-mas cash, but I found out that Goodwill has a lot of perfectly good clothing for dirt-cheap, too.)
Today, I managed to refinance my car into only my name. Not only did I get my interest percentage reduced, my required monthly payment went down $50. Good to know I've got some extra money to spare if I need it.
I also met with my C again today. We talked about how my OCD affected my R, my W's caustic behaviors, and how much I distanced myself from my family / based far too much of my life & worth on my W when we were still together. C says that she doesn't believe that a new R with W would stand a chance because both of us will have changed so much as people. I'm still keeping my mind open but will admit that my optimism for a solid recon has diminished much. A lot would have to change before I could consider working things out with W. Perhaps someone else might be a better fit for me. We will see.
C suggested that I continue exploring who I am as an individual, a process that she considered "taking back parts" of myself that I gave to W. I too recognize this as my primary goal and will continue to do so.
Sounds good!
Love the Goodwill shopping too! I went out to a jazz club last week, wearing my sexy new $10-at-Ross dress, and my jacket was a dressy black velvet 1950's style jacket I bought at the Goodwill when I was in college....wait for it.....33 years ago!!! Boy did I get my money's worth out of THAT purchase lol!
Awesome story, kml! It's amazing some of the great stuff people will just give away. Makes me feel like I'm cheating the system or something.
Bit of a mishap today. I was supposed to have been credited $10 from my work for some items I bought early last month but hadn't seen anything deposited to my bank account. Upon some investigation, I found out that the back office had sent the money to the bank account that they had on file rather than the one that I had specifically put down on the compensation voucher. That means that they sent the money to my W's account, not mine. (We both used to be on hers.)
This was a somewhat annoying development, as the person helping me research it made it sound like it was my fault for "not marking on my voucher that the account # listed was a new account." (Then what was the point of putting it down at all?) In any case, they updated the account number, so it won't happen again.
But the matter of the $10 itself remains. It may not be a large amount, but every bit helps me out and, blast it, it's my money. I sent my W this e-mail:
By any chance, was there a mysterious deposit into your checking account for $10.93 around the 8th of December? Sadly, there was a goof-up at my work, and they sent that amount to your account instead of mine, not realizing that I am no longer attached to it. If there was, could you transfer that amount back to me? I would really appreciate it and apologize for the inconvenience. If you transfer it by phone, I'm sure that it would take less than five minutes. I have ironed things out at work, so it won't happen again.
Also, since I'm already mentioning finance, I thought I'd let you know that I was able to refinance the loan into just my name with no problems. Thanks so much for your help in the matter!
--WCF
We'll see what happens. I feel apprehensive and dread any kind of attempt she might make at using this to play her power games. If it turns out that way, to heck with it. It's just ten bucks.
I find it strange that she hasn't mentioned anything about it, as she is usually very meticulous about keeping her check book balanced. (It's something about her that rubbed off onto me.)
Hey WCF - sorry to have to say this but your text about the $10 comes across as nothing more than PURE PURSUIT! Are you really in that desperate need of the $10? Maybe you are and I should just zip it. But in the event you aren't don't you see how this comes across?
If I was your WAW I'd be thinking, REALLY!?! In the grand scheme of things this is what my H is worried about, $10 friggin dollars! Good grief!
"We'll see what happens. I feel apprehensive and dread any kind of attempt she might make at using this to play her power games. If it turns out that way, to heck with it. It's just ten bucks."
I think your words above ^^^^ speak for themselves just reverse the roles.
Stop the Pursuit, WCF. It's not attractive!
I too sometimes get to a point where I've just GOT to read a regular book. As cool as Kindles are, they will never kill the book, period. (I do admit that it sure helps when I read thick, heavy tomes like "Infinite Jest" or "Under the Dome.")
OMG had to comment here...LOVE my books...absolutely. But I love my Nook (don't know the differences between all of the e-readers but supposedly and surprisingly heard that Barnes/Noble has MORE books than Amazon???)
but thing is, aside from not having to carry around tomes like "Under the Dome", (which I read & loved btw),
I hate admitting this...but now that I'm officially "middle aged"...
I find that my eyesight sukks after reading an hour or two.
So, sadly, I HAVE TO enlarge the letters after awhile and only an e-reader can do that.
We have a decent sized library in our home (h has two medical degrees and I am a L, so we have tons of heavy books we'll probably read again, maybe 3 times in the next 50 years??)
Still I cling to law books with puny print that I cannot seem to sell or let go of. Why? IDK...it's not like others see our library and get impressed. It's in an out of the way room. So it's not even vanity. Or maybe it gives me some sense of achievment knowing "I read THAT AND THAT"...??
So the eyesight thing stinks and yes I have 3 different eye glasses prescriptions...At this rate when I'm 80
I'll read one word at a time on an index card...geez...
(there' a joke in there somewhere, hmm, I better remember)
actually may look into lasik surgery next time I have an extra $5k.
I'm glad that you noticed that interactions with my W have been somewhat more positive than they once were -- I've noticed, too. It's hard to know if it means anything. Maybe she's getting the idea that I'm going dark and that's going to stick, or perhaps she realizes that ranting and raving will only push me away further. Who knows.
She's playing some sort of game. I wondered about her weight comments. She either likes her men big, (??)
or she's hoping you are depressed and losing weight the "DB grief induced way". That bugs me. Why can't she just say you look good?
You could tell her "actually w, a lot of folks have commented on my weight loss AND NOTICED HOW MUCH I'VE WORKED OUT, but the downside is that I have to buy more clothes..." and change the topic;.
This way she knows that you are putting a positive spin on her comment and that you were oblivious to her intent, whatever it was...and maybe you'll be giving her the benefit of the doubt.
Yesterday, I got an e-mail from my W. It was a forward of a message from the local "bunny spa," which is basically a great service for rabbits in the area to clean them up and give them a check-up for only a $10 "suggested donation." W wrote, "I keep getting these emails. But I thought I'd forward this one to you in case you're interested in taking [the rabbit]." I replied and said, "Thanks, I appreciate it."
Again, the tone just feels different. She may just genuinely want the best for the rabbit, but at least she's being nice in giving me the info.
what is the deal with the rabbit, west? Is this an excuse for more contact or a symbol of the marriage or what?
And what's with the comment about "too bad we couldn't divorce by now"...
sounded like a probing comment on her end, to me.
I'm liking your GAL and interactions with her though, big time.
Good job! You've come a long way my man...a long way. Good for you.
Oh and I LOVE your t. Humor is mandatory and if a c or mc or t lacks one, i can't go back. I do stand up comedy and I'm not saying they have to love my jokes but my sense of humor IS a coping tool I use
so yeah, they have to get that part of me or they won't be helping me much.
Yours sounds great.
I missed out on the post about sex with OM...where's that? WTH? If I find it I'll let you know my take on it b/c there has to be a reason for it.
Worst case is she wants you to know it's over. But even with that goal, seems needlessly cruel.
Best case, for lack of better terms, is that she is testing you, teaching you somethihng she wanted you to know about her sexually, or probing or trying to make you jealous...wth?
there have to be better ways to achieve those goals...Jesus...
Hey WCF - sorry to have to say this but your text about the $10 comes across as nothing more than PURE PURSUIT! Are you really in that desperate need of the $10? Maybe you are and I should just zip it. But in the event you aren't don't you see how this comes across?
If I was your WAW I'd be thinking, REALLY!?! In the grand scheme of things this is what my H is worried about, $10 friggin dollars! Good grief!
"We'll see what happens. I feel apprehensive and dread any kind of attempt she might make at using this to play her power games. If it turns out that way, to heck with it. It's just ten bucks."
I think your words above ^^^^ speak for themselves just reverse the roles.
Stop the Pursuit, WCF. It's not attractive!
...
Wow....there are only 2 ways your w can see that email
Either you are using 10$ as an excuse for more contact (b/c who on earth would contact a
divorcing spouse about such a small amount of money??)
OR WORSE, that your OCD is back, you have not changed AND OR
you come off being as uber cheap. Yikes...I almost hope she sees it as pursuit.
IMO, the best thing you can do now is either act as if you were joking
b/c like I said, who would make an issue of this small amount?
OR
that you wanted to make sure her math wasn't thrown off by the error
AND OR so that she knows you took care of accounting issues at work, they screwed up, and you wanted to make sure she understood the error
AND b/c you know how meticulous she is.
West this is a backslide imo.
It looks as if you don't realize how most people see this. Frankly, I don't know ANY ADULT who'd make an issue of this amount with anyone else
and least of all, their soon to be former spouse...
unless they were furious and punitive, thinking she "ripped you off!!"???
But you're not furious...or are you, and just not aware of it?
If I were HER, AND IF I EVEN NOTICED THIS in my bank account,
I would not make an issue of it.
It's just Too small to comment upon and I'd be concerned that I'd look OCD or pursuing if I brought it up to you...
yes, that's how I'd feel if I were in HER shoes.
In YOUR shoes, I'd say not one word... Even an impoverished man would look cheap commenting about this amount of money and FYI-- being impoverished isn't attractive.
See if there's a way you can un-do this. Val, 2, anyone else have a suggestion here?
It's just my take on it.
To both 2 and 25: Thanks for helping me realize my error. You're right, $10 is nothing. I went ahead and wrote my W another e-mail before she could do anything -- she hasn't yet replied to my last one or made any transfers.
...now that I think about it, don't even worry about the $10. If I'm going to be contributing my part of the filing fee in March, you might as well hang onto it. Disregard the last e-mail -- much obliged.Unfortunately, I don't think that I can get out of looking like a miser from my last e-mail, but at least I've resolved the problem.
Here are several responses to 25's comments.
Re. e-books: B&N has more books than Amazon now? That's wild! Of course, given that B&N deals primarily with books while Amazon offers a huge assortment of everything, it makes sense. Hope Lasik surgery goes well for you if ever you're ever able to do that -- it seems like people are happy once they have it done.
Re. my weight: Actually, my W has always preferred her men to be tall and slender -- as I am now. When she met me, I was also thin because I ate very little and worked out a lot (I was coping with mild depression my first few months of college). She thought that I was incredibly attractive at the time. I believe, as you do, that she's playing a game and secretly hopes that I'm starving myself out of grief. I'm very thin, but not enough to look dangerously so. I also eat healthy, but I'm by no means fasting.
I like your idea of putting a positive spin on it. Positive is an awesome way to go!
Re. the rabbit: In my opinion, my W uses the rabbit as an excuse for more contact. She originally gave me custody of him because he "prefers" me -- I'm the one who has primarily taken care of him over the years. However, she has told me that she intends to take him back once she moves back to this area in August of this year. I love the little guy a lot, but if it means one less way she can try and control me, the better.
Re. the sex comments: Instead of forcing either one of us to dig back through lots of comments, I'll just re-hash them here. Basically, when my W first started seeing OM and told me that she wanted to be separated, she told me lots of explicit details about their sex life as though I were one of her GFs -- the size of his penis (he's bigger than I am), how long he can "go" for, the semi-S&M style "roughness" that he enjoys, etc. I called her close to the "anniversary" of the day that she was raped (typically, a very difficult day for her), and she said, "Oh, yeah, OM knows about that. I told him, 'No handcuffs on that day!')
She also told me multiple times that he "knows what he's doing" and that I should spend this time working on "being comfortable with that side" of myself with other women. What's odd is that she never complained about my "technique" in the years before. Either way, this whole thing has put my sexual self esteem in the toilet.
Needlessly cruel? Yes indeed. I still have no idea why she told me those things. I can't help but feel that her sexual trauma is shaping her erractic and unwarranted behavior. At the time, I chose to listen to all this because I was in shock and felt like I needed to get answers as to why it was happening. Now I look back and often feel angry at her for saying those things. It only makes the "mind movies" that much more vivid to me.
RE the 10$ - yeah you lost points with that. Let's hope she doesn't notice.
Do not credit something for it or act as if it matters AT ALL...or go with the idea you were trying to help HER with the math of it and assuring her that you had not erred but the department did...blah blah blah and drop it!
RE sex with OM-
well JESUS CHRIST I cannot believe she told you all that...crap....
I've known enough men and have been m long enough AND I have 3 sisters and many gf's who share a lot of things with me about sex...here's the deal.
Size matters more in photos than anything else.
I KNOW
if a man
loves a woman, he usually figures out what it takes to satisfy her sexually, unless she's too quiet to tell him or she wants a mind reader OR
if she's afraid to admit what it is that turns her on. That's pretty much it.
BTW
Most women cannot climax from intercourse alone-
so technically, how much can size matter?
So the real question is, why did she tell you?
If he's into S & M, then it's just weird that she's turned on by his behavior.
Unless her "rape" secretly appealed to a part of her - for which she feels confusion or shame -
or something else- too wacky for me to figure out
AND NOT ABOUT YOU ANYHOW...when you begin "really" dating again, and want to get intimate
just let your new woman know that your ex w told you some things that hurt your ego.
& All you ask for is that your lover communicate HER needs and preferences to you
b/c you "aim to please!" and never ever apologize for your size. First off, You may be normal size and the OM is large. So what?
From what I hear SOME men with big ones tend to assume that their size alone is sufficient for the woman's satisfaction - and if she has not fully "enjoyed" herself with intercourse alone..well that's her problem.
look ...if you date a woman w/small breasts, will you insist she get augmentation? I thought not...
Your w's comments were
so much more about HER than you, that's all I can say and reiterate.
So Carry on!
Either way, this whole thing has put my sexual self esteem in the toilet.
. At the time, I chose to listen to all this because I was in shock and felt like I needed to get answers as to why it was happening. Now I look back and often feel angry at her for saying those things. It only makes the "mind movies" that much more vivid to me.
Oh I hear you about the 'mind movies'. When my FI and I first got together and the subject came of of likes and dislikes for sex he foolishly used his EXW in most of the examples and told me way TMI. I couldn't erase those movies from my mind and it damaged my sexual self esteem for quite a while too. It certainly bit him in the ass.
I feel for you
Size matters more in photos than anything else.
I figured this as much. What was weird was that my W did not make it sound as though the dude's size influenced her in any way. Technically, she said, "He's pretty well-endowed -- he's bigger than you, but not by a whole lot." It was as though she was just mentioning it as something that interested her. And also as though she was trying to hurt me. Does that make sense, that I got those two intertwined tones from her? Gah, it's been so confusing.
Also, now that I mentioned it, she said that OM could go "for hours," but she made a comment about how average the sex was, like "ehhhh...it's okay." Now that you mention it, I must not have been that terrible because almost every time my W and I had sex, she O'd. I don't mean to be explicit, but she wasn't faking with me -- I could physically feel it happening. (She also told me that, at the time, she had not yet O'd with OM. So chalk one up for me.)
If he's into S & M, then it's just weird that she's turned on by his behavior.
This is the primary reason why I believe that her experience w/rape is the driving reason behind her A -- like she's trying to exorcize her demons or something. When I first met her, she was extremely sexual. I like to say that sex constituted about half of our R at first. Then, after we became serious, she started to hate sex. Mostly only did it because she felt that she had a "duty" to do it with me, and also because she liked feeling close to me.
Then, in the last year, she started to became really sexual again but complained that I was "hesitant" about what I was doing. That she sometimes wished that she could just be "taken." I understand that there were things that I could have differently, maybe worked on my self-confidence more. It doesn't excuse her A, but I get it. Still, after all those years of treating her so gingerly, I wasn't used to being so aggressive in that department.
when you begin "really" dating again, and want to get intimate, just let your new woman know that your ex w told you some things that hurt your ego. All you ask for is that your lover communicate HER needs and preferences to you b/c you "aim to please!"
Thanks so much for the reassuring comments and advice. I realize quite readily that because my W has been my only sexual partner, and because of the things that have occurred, my sexuality has not been very well-developed. I'm sure that whoever else may come along will be much more supportive and much less condemning of my efforts.
Oneeleven: Thanks for the supportive words. Mind-movies really ain't fun.
"He's pretty well-endowed -- he's bigger than you, but not by a whole lot."
Haha - you realize, in a back-handed way, she said YOU were well endowed too!
West,
25 made alot of good points about your wife. I don't think there is much you could do to "fix" that email.....
..... I'm not sure if your 2nd email made it any better. I still don't understand why you are sharing in the filing cost.. but that's just me.
It might not be a bad idea to set up some "waiting periods". For example.. I will wait at least one hour to respond to text, I will wait at least 24 hrs to compose an email or respond to an email.
This allows me to look at what I'm saying and make sure I'm not backsliding.. or being stupid.
I guess it also could make w think I'm out GALing.. but I try not to focus on what she thinks too much.
Anyway...
Might be worth a try... especially that your dynamic with your w has recently changed.
Otherwise don't beat yourself up too much. I definitely agree with 25 that you have come a LONG way.. so I think you will learn from this and change.
Keep on Keeping On.
kml: I did catch that, thanks. Got to think of the positive in a negative sitch, I suppose.
Val: I really appreciate your ideas on "waiting periods." I believe that was my mistake -- I just barreled into that first e-mail only a few hours after learning about the bank error. It also teaches me that I might want to run my ideas on this site before I do anything, too. Had I done that, I imagine that you guys would have talked me out of it. Oh, well. Live & learn.
I don't like that I'm sharing the filing cost, either, but I already agreed to it, and I don't feel like getting in a big argument with my W over the matter, especially if it's only an amount close to the $10.93. If it was a substantial amount, I would probably say no and damn the consequences.
I checked my e-mail today and no reply, so either she is really disregarding my e-mails, or she just REALLY takes her time in checking her inbox. We'll see.
I also wanted to add that, yesterday morning, I overheard my boss telling another co-worker about how great MeetUp.com was. She said that her sister, who had recently gone through a D, was now using the site, and she was doing a lot of fun things! That helped me make up my mind: I'm going to finally use that site. Might as well. I want to get out and meet people.
West,
forget the dang 10$!! No way are you going to look better for caring about it unless you make it about how you were trying to clarify for HER sake, etc etc
Please take Val's advice about waiting periods. We all have benefitted from that including me.
As for meetup.com - my 22 y/o daughter uses that site to meet people who speak French, enjoy classical music, and now she's in a writer's group. It's not all about dating but it CAN lead to it...and sometimes does. So it's better that sites that are strictly about dating in a lot of ways.
and last but not least btw, if your ex w's new OM can literally "last for hours", literally....trust me on this-he's taking Viagra.
...I know too many men and women who've shared LOTS of info and I have 5 brothers with high sex drives. You can't go on "FOR HOURS" without some help...or a lot of breaks in between.
and at his young age, that's NOT so impressive.
But enough of HIM...how are YOU?
and Go to Meetup.com......it's LOW risk my friend. And high yield potential!
Yeah, lots of people here have enjoyed Meetup.com as a way to find new friends and activities - it seems like it would be a great way to GAL.
As for the "going for hours" business - sometimes guys with erectile dysfunction who have difficulty achieving orgasm can TAKE what seems like hours - not necessarily an enjoyable thing for the woman lol!
Your ex has some serious issues and really, isn't a very nice person, at least not right now. Look for positive, competent, kind people to include in your life.
IF there is a next time your w brings sex with ANY other man up around you
(and I almost hope there is)
I hope you'll hold up you hand with your palm outward
and say "Whoah hold on ex w, I don't expose you to MY sexual exploits and don't expect you to tell me about yours...it's called 'boundaries'..."
if you are on otherwise good terms then change topics & say something like
"now why don't you tell me about that new job/place you are getting INSTEAD?"
But if the talk is just closure of details and may be the last time you two talk, and she brings it up then you say all the rest and close with
"it's called 'boundaries', and maybe If we'd had them earlier we wouldn't be here now - but that's not my responsibility now. BUT I sure wish you well though," and get up and with a genuinely warm BUT DETACHED MANNER -
leave the area....and let her go find what it is she seeks...
don't keel over if she calls you in six months - but don't you dare wait for it either.
You can argue this is a tactic- but only in part. It's also a teaching point for HER to learn basic courtesy, AND it's a boundary setting BY YOU (and w/a little mystery tossed in there too)
You are a better man than before, and you'll be a better h than before. So there's a really good chance you'll be in a much happier marriage than before.
to whomever
((( )))
Thanks, guys. I was in a pretty crummy place before, but now I feel much better about myself. I also appreciate hearing some female perspective on this, given that it sheds a lot of light on what might be going on in my W's head.
Re. the $10: Sorry, 25. Unfortunately, I think that I plain old messed up on this one -- just going to have to take it into stride and do whatever damage control I can. Given that she still hasn't replied to my e-mails yet, I think that she's probably doing what I ought to do -- forgetting about it and moving on.
Re. Meetup.com: It's settled. I'll start looking for some things to do this week. It'll be a little scary, but I'm more comfortable socializing now than I've ever been. It's something that I really, really want to do a lot more of.
Re. boundaries: I like your ideas on this, 25. I will admit that I really don't talk to my W anymore because of my boundaries. Oh, believe me, she has tried to inject herself into my life as "friends" many times, but I have yet to see her do so as somebody with respect for me. Still, if sex ever does come up like that, I'll be more prepared than I was to put up some good old-fashioned boundaries.
Re. being a better man/husband: I think I am, too, and I believe that this is only the beginning. So sad that it took something so devastating to instill this change within me, but I guess that's sometimes how the greatest change is brought about.
Thanks again for the advice and support, everybody! Will keep you all posted!
I thought that I'd add that I recently posted a picture of myself on FB wearing clothes that I bought with X-mas money. They fit much better than my old ones, so they show off my "new & improved" physique. Plus, they also look more "dressy" than my old duds. I got a lot of really great comments! It made me feel pretty.
Also, I seem to have a four-day weekend coming up. I intend to make the most of it. What shall I do besides sleep in, exercise, and catch up on my reading?
An interesting point: I've noticed a recurring trend. Almost every time I discuss my W's behavior with other women away from DB.com, they seem to have a wealth of perspective about it. Many make comments in the same vein as "Women can read other women," or "women know a lot about the games women play." Most seem to be in agreement that my W is playing some pretty obvious and saddening games with me.
Just thought that was interesting.
I'd be madder at her if she didn't have such a wacky say background
But that's NOT YOUR problem now either, is it?
Go let her solve it. I have a feeling she can't do that with you IF it's possible at all.
So I'd rather have her return to you, if at all, patched up a bit.
Hang in there and keep posting including the pics of you in your new duds. And am I the only woman who LOVES cologne on man? Damn...I surely do.
but get a new one so you have new memories to make with them. Something about olfactory senses and early memories. But I'm into maximizing the whole experience from start to finish.
Food should LOOK good and that helps it taste good...same goes for smelling good and looking good. HOpe that makes sense...
EDIT!!!
should read "if wife didn't have such a wacky SAD background"....
25, I am absolutely in agreement with you about the "being madder" comment. If she was anybody else, I would be so done with her right now and never mind if it got her panties in a bunch. But I know that she's better than all this. All I see is a girl who's hurting so much inside and doing so much harm in an attempt to fix that hurt.
Thanks for the ideas on cologne. I've got a couple -- maybe I should spritz some on tomorrow as a test.
Tonight, while I was out, my W left a voicemail telling me to call her back. When I got back home, I texted her: What's up? She asked, "Can you please call me?" as per usual. So I did. And we had a conversation that lasted for a half hour or so. I will do a lot of condensing and re-arranging (as a lot was said) for the sake of brevity and easy reading.
W: Got your message about the $10. What exactly do you want me to do about it?
M: Oh, don't even worry about it. At least now you know where your book might be off.
[thanks for this one, 25 ]W: OK. Another thing, I'm going to be visiting in March. Can you sign the D papers then?
M: Sure! Just keep me informed.
W: Okay, I don't want you to be the emotionless, "sure!" guy about all of this.
M: I don't mean to come across as emotionless or as though I'm happy about it. I've just been doing a lot of processing, and I feel like I've come to a place of acceptance with it and of embracing my new life.
W: I'm really not doing well with this. I find myself missing you a lot. I wish I could be as strong as you in dealing with this -- that's one thing that I've always admired about you, how strong you are. I sometimes think about whether or not I did the right thing, although I think that I did, because I don't think that either one of us was happy. I feel sometimes like a failure, even though my parents say that I'm not.
I feel like I'm going through a grieving period -- like my heart is broken. I've been feeling a lot of things that I can't explain... It's like you died or something. You were there with me almost every day for almost 5.5 years, and now you've been gone for six months. I considered you my best friend, and now we don't have that anymore.
M: It's going to be okay, for both of us. It really will. I want you to be happy; I really, really want that. We'll both get by. But I feel like the boundary that I set still stands.
W: Is it because of OM?
M: Mostly, yes.
W: I understand that. I just feel like every once in a while, I'll want to talk to you.
[at this point, she asks some questions about my life -- am I seeing anyone? How's my job? What kind of things have I been doing? As her tone is more pleasant and respectful than it's ever been, I choose to indulge her, though I'm still very vague. I am clear that I am very happy with my life.]W: So did you want to hear what's going on in my life, or do you even care?
M: I do care, yes, but I'd better get going. Got to do my exercise -- it's a big one tonight.
W:
[getting frustrated] I guess it's always been my fault, choosing to care about someone who doesn't care about me.
M: It's not that I don't care about you. I do. I just feel like I've set a boundary, and now I've got to stick to it.
W: I don't get it. I feel like I compromised myself a lot in our R. I gave you everything that you wanted or needed every day for years, even though you hurt me hundreds of times. And I hurt you once, and you can't be there for me the one time that I need you.
I know that my R with OM has hurt you. It hurt you & it hurt my family. I wish I hadn't done it, I wish OM and I hadn't met that way. OM knows how much I hate that we met the way that we did and that I'll always walk around with it over my head. Do you feel like you're doing this because my being with OM hurts you?
M: Yes.
W: It's not my intention to hurt you, and I don't think that you ever intended to hurt me before, either. But I feel like you intend to hurt me now. Just because we're separated and getting D'd doesn't mean that we have to stop communicating. I feel like you owe me this.
M: I don't mean to be cruel or come off like I don't care about you. But I feel like you already did what you felt that you needed to do to resolve your unhappiness with us. I understand that you're doing what you need to do to find your happiness, and I'm respecting that. But the way I feel about all this is not congruent with what you want from me.
W: Fine. Have it your way. I just really feel like you're going to look back at this and wish that you'd handled things differently. I feel sorry for you.
M: I'm going now. Keep me informed about March.
Well, there it is. I think that I've hit all of the main points in the convo. I'll leave my analysis out of it, as I'd like to both give myself a day to process my feelings and perhaps get some good feedback from you all.
My main question: Did I do the right thing in sticking to my guns and pushing her away? I feel that I did, but I can't help but feel incredibly guilty about it at the same time. She sounds so unhappy...
You did the right thing.
SHE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH ANOTHER MAN. One that is ongoing. And no, she doesn't get to keep you as her best friend AND sleep with the OM.
That discomfort is actually making her deal with what she's done in a way that she never would have done if you'd just indulged her "best friends forever" fantasy.
And the fact that she can't understand or respect the fact that you have this (entirely reasonable) boundary - says something about her selfishness.
I mean, a healthy person would understand, "wow, I really hurt my spouse by cheating on them, maybe it's too much to expect them to be my buddy right now".
Instead, she keeps getting mad at you.
Although - I will say, there's an old trick that often is enlightening. Take a statement of hers, replace all the "you"s with "I"s - and you often can hear what they are REALLY thinking.
For instance, she said:
I just really feel like you're going to look back at this and wish that you'd handled things differently. I feel sorry for you.
But she MEANT:
You just really feel like I'm going to look back at this and wish that I'd handled things differently. You feel sorry for me.
yeah you did the right thing. She's in another world or solar system and all planets revolve around her. She wanted YOU to comfort HER for her adultery b/c it bugs her that she "met OM the way she did" what a bunch of parsing...uyou mean when you cheated on me? IS that what you mean about how you two "met" and how you "regret THE WAY YOU MET"??? NOT that she broke her vows or crushed you but that it does not LOOK GOOD on her dating resume... I don't care what happened to her in the past.
She's very self centered and clueless AND btw, she has NOT grown an inch emotionally. Notice that It's all about how SHE hurts now b/c she cheated on you and somehow
it's all about her, again...first you neglected her and so she cheated of course, and now YOU are withdrawing b/c
of the affair AND SOME INEXCUSABLE COMMENTARY FROM HER RECENTLY....
which was clueless at best - and cruel at worst. I'd have said something abnout that and said either the polite way-
"Wow we sure don't see that event the same way at all, but that's okay b/c we don't have to agree on the past and you won't have to be unhappy anymore"
or just "Gee I sure don't see it that way AT ALL, but I'm sorry if you were hurt" and end the topic. Stand your ground that SHE's way off base there...
God forbid she OWN the mistake.
It's all in code and riddles so she wants YOU to stick your neck out and take all the risk to chase her some more
but then what? She's with him! She regrets HOW they met, NOT that they are together NOW, correct? Am I missing something?
Okay so is it possible she wants you to sweep her off her feet and win her back?
it is possible. But she sounds like she is "with" OM...
and even IF she IS wanting you to come in and take her back--or win her back with work on YOUR end (which is all I heard...NOTHING on her end of significance to work on or change or promise, and that's a bad bad sign)
Do you think this woman as she is, who shows no growth or insight into HER behavior in a way that indicates changing it anyhow...
is a good investment for your heart?
Like I said, Let HER go patch herself up and figure what she wants out and THEN SHE can come to you and say why she misses you and what she needs or wants from you
and YOU can choose what's right for YOU.
Right now she's only going to obstruct your growth and stop you from enjoying meeting new people and you MUST meet some new women to get your confidence and mojo back...
Yes I'm saying go get your swagger on and gain some experience so YOU'LL know when you are treated right...b/c she treated you horribly
and still won't admit it. And sometimes you dont' see it yourself.
Your marital mistakes were what again? IF I recall - you got complacent and depressed and I'm SURE that was a big drag...you were underemployed too?
Okay so she stuck by you...or not? She didn't....she left you b/c you were too much work? Maybe so but she did DO THAT...and you slogged through some crap and you are now better, thank God. But see
After She left you and you told her how YOU feel, she filed for divorce and THEN let you in on way too much information...and now it seems to me, that
SHE regrets that she lost ANYTHING IN HER "MARITAL TRANSACTION"
b/c when you trade one guy in for another, you DO lose the guy you traded in.
You do NOT get to keep one in reserve or pout to them about what it cost HER to make "one mistake".... God she's got the selfishiness of an elementary school brat but that offends me b/c my girls NEVER acted like this.
So YES you did the right thing and if anything you were too polite about it.
I'd want to express SOME shock at the gall of a woman who cheats on you when you were already down in the dumps, and then pouts that you won't be her bff anymore...Good God...
sorry west, geez
PS
I agree with KML on all counts. I also think that this is the final straw in my mind.
Unless and until she gets serious help, which I do NOT expect her to get until IF AND WHEN the affair burns out and even then, I doubt it...
she's a BAD bet for you.
She has the sensitivity of a rock, and will careen around banging into your NORMAL male ego the rest of your life if you let her AND
she's a succubus. I assume she's great looking and or very rich b/c she has treated you terribly, but she doesn't like that there is ANY price to pay for that, socially or like losing the "friendship" with their exes. First she wants you to hurry up and sign the papers and then she whines that you are too upbeat.
Not saying you were perfect-yeah we know BUT now you are a better catch. You have changed; you have grown, and she has NOT. Clearly.
She ended it and claimed to have good reasons..okay, maybe so.
Then Now what's new? She wants to keep torturing you? Keeping you in her back pocket and making sure you do NOT date OWs or appear too happy b.c then maybe SHE didn't make a good trade...oops....Don't let her keep you stuck anymore.
Finally, a shrink once told me that 90% of women who take ADs have critical spouses...I have wondered for awhile what role SHE played in your depression.
Sure, I know, YOU are responsible for your happiness but I sure do wonder how she was playing you b/c I don't think you see the manipulations as clearly as some of us are...so maybe we'll never know what role she played but she won't have one anymore...
Hey West, There are many fun sexy women out there who are smart and LOVING and
Not crazy, selfish or cruel. I promise you there are so many. Your ex has blown it.
If she falls apart on you, and if you begin to cave (hope you won't)
tell her to call you when she's done with OM AND
has seen a shrink to get help with her massive confusion and crazy
"careening" into egos and hurting you, and then you'll see where YOU are, if and when that ever happens.
Otherwise, what's to talk about? His penis? [u] Oh yeah that's super fun[/u]
If you stay on the road you have chosen, you'll be fine and happy soon enough. Her happiness never was nor is it now, YOUR responsibility.
((( )))
I will reply to you guys in broken-down posts, as I like to keep things short & sweet.
That discomfort is actually making her deal with what she's done in a way that she never would have done if you'd just indulged her "best friends forever" fantasy. And the fact that she can't understand or respect the fact that you have this (entirely reasonable) boundary - says something about her selfishness.
I think that's what's at play here. OM, while fun for a while, could only fill that missing 20%, and now she's feeling the missing 80%. Otherwise, why bother being so desperate to keep me in her life? I thought afterwards: where was OM while we were having this big, long conversation? He was definitely not in the background or else I would have heard him.
Although - I will say, there's an old trick that often is enlightening. Take a statement of hers, replace all the "you"s with "I"s - and you often can hear what they are REALLY thinking.
This is interesting! Does this have a basis in psychology literature, or is it really just a trick? The "improved" quote that you posted definitely sounds quite different.
Reply to 25, Pt. 1
She's very self centered and clueless AND btw, she has NOT grown an inch emotionally. Notice that It's all about how SHE hurts now b/c she cheated on you and somehow
it's all about her, again...
It very much feels this way, yes. In her world view, she left because I was making her unhappy, and now I'm only continuing to make her unhappy because I'm not willing to break this boundary of mine. She actually said at one point, "I think it's very interesting that between being there for someone you care about and enforcing some kind of personal boundary, you choose the boundary." Obviously, personal boundaries clearly mean nothing to her.
Like I said, Let HER go patch herself up and figure what she wants out and THEN SHE can come to you and say why she misses you and what she needs or wants from you and YOU can choose what's right for YOU.
I will probably end up doing this. It will take me a long time to let her go out of my heart and to build up myself into a solid person, and it will take an REALLY long time for her to work out her demons (if ever she's able or willing to do that). By that time, I may have moved on to someone better, but that's the risk that I'm taking. I need to be in a healthy R. Not this.
Yes I'm saying go get your swagger on and gain some experience so YOU'LL know when you are treated right...b/c she treated you horribly and still won't admit it. And sometimes you dont' see it yourself.
I'm beginning to realize that there was a lot that I didn't see (and still don't see). In the bubble of our R, it was just between me and her, so I didn't know anything different. But now when I tell other people (like you guys or my C) about her behavior, the strength of their reaction ("OMG, I can't believe she SAID/DID that!") has been opening my eyes quite widely.
Your marital mistakes were what again? IF I recall - you got complacent and depressed and I'm SURE that was a big drag...you were underemployed too?
You seem to be mixing me up with MadeToSucceed. This is easy to do as our sitches are EERILY similar (both in our twenties, both with psycho WAS', etc.) My W's big complaint with me was my OCD -- the thoughts that I had about her body image, the bodies of other women, how I compared other women's bodies to her, etc. What angers me is how she still seems to think that these "bad thoughts" were just as bad, if not worse, than her current behavior. I understand that my thoughts were very damaging to her self-esteem, but I never actually went out and slept with anybody. Seems like a big difference to me.
when you trade one guy in for another, you DO lose the guy you traded in. You do NOT get to keep one in reserve or pout to them about what it cost HER to make "one mistake".... God she's got the selfishiness of an elementary school brat but that offends me b/c my girls NEVER acted like this.
The first thing you said here is one of the main reasons why I'm going dark on her. Either she stays & works things out, or she chooses OM and leaves. She DOESN'T get to have both, and it angers me that she believes herself to be ENTITLED to me. And yes, I'm starting to see how "bratty" she is acting. It's scary how SHE just doesn't see it that way. Hope she sees everything one day as it really is.
So YES you did the right thing and if anything you were too polite about it.I'd want to express SOME shock at the gall of a woman who cheats on you when you were already down in the dumps, and then pouts that you won't be her bff anymore...Good God...
I will admit that I have always been too polite in this matter. But I am polite for two reasons: 1, because being calm, collected, and kind to her in the face of her terrible behavior makes me feel like the better man. To not allow myself to get affected or to sling her sh!t right back at her...man, the air on the high road tastes so much sweeter. Can't get enough of it.
2, I honestly feel like, given where her head is at right now, my being shocked at her behavior would be pointless. Kind of like when people yell at their dogs, trying to get animals to understand WHY they're mad at them. It's just a waste of time, really. Better to disengage with a smile. I feel like being happy!
Reply to 25, Pt. 2
she's a BAD bet for you. She has the sensitivity of a rock, and will careen around banging into your NORMAL male ego the rest of your life if you let her AND she's a succubus. I assume she's great looking and or very rich b/c she has treated you terribly, but she doesn't like that there is ANY price to pay for that, socially or like losing the "friendship" with their exes.
I have been fearing for a long time now that she's just no good for me. I am sure that once I come across a much better woman, it will cinch it for me just HOW bad my W is. I wish that it wasn't so because we were so good in so many ways, but only she can make the choice to become a strong and healthy person.
As for the latter, she is very beautiful to me, but not objectively a "knock-out" (not to the point where it's a huge asset), and she's not rich, either. The only other thing I can think of is her career. She's getting her P.h.D in psychology (how fitting), so she's had much more professional experience than I have (or obviously OM, who as far as I know is a dunce).
Finally, a shrink once told me that 90% of women who take ADs have critical spouses...I have wondered for awhile what role SHE played in your depression. Sure, I know, YOU are responsible for your happiness but I sure do wonder how she was playing you b/c I don't think you see the manipulations as clearly as some of us are...so maybe we'll never know what role she played but she won't have one anymore...
I will substitute "OCD" for "depression" to answer you, since the depression was MTS' thing. Yes, I believe that I could have done more to manage my OCD -- I agree with my W on that. But, now that I've gotten some distance from the R, I am beginning to see how her own massive insecurity contributed to my disorder. She still believes that it was ALL me, but I believe that her wild overreactions did NOT help the sitch at all and only made it worse.
ey West, There are many fun sexy women out there who are smart and LOVING and Not crazy, selfish or cruel. I promise you there are so many. Your ex has blown it.
I am looking forward to finding this out on my own. I do love women, especially the ones who treat me right. It'll be some fun, hands-on experience.
I look forward to finding the person who I am meant to be with and, in addition, doing things right this time around.
Her happiness never was nor is it now, YOUR responsibility.
This is why I felt so guilty last night, and why I've felt so guilty for years. I have always felt (and SHE has made me feel far too often) that I am the source of her happiness and/or unhappiness. I must learn to let her realize this fact for herself. I'm in charge of my own happiness now, and she's in charge of hers. (At one point last night, I said, "I'm in charge of meeting my needs and desires now, and you're in charge of yours." She replied, "That's not the way it works."
)
BTW, thank you guys so much for your detailed and quick responses. I was in a bad way last night, but when I got to read your responses this morning, I felt instantly better. I am blessed to know both of you and all of the lovely people on this Godsend of a website.
before I get into details...I did NOT recall your OCD being somehow relevant
to you making comparisons about her body and other women's bodies.
maybe it's No wonder she thought discussions of OM's penis and how long he can go, seemed appropriate to her. Perhaps you taught her that?
Were the comparisons you made between her and other women flattering to her?
were your verbalized observations about HER body, compliments?
Or were they hurtful?
No, they were very hurtful. These "thoughts" made up almost the entirety of my OCD. Very little of my disease was displayed through outward compulsions -- almost all spent within the corridors of my mind. I would see an attractive woman and think to myself, in a very scared and anxious manner, "How does this person rate on the scale of attractiveness? Would I think that person would be more attractive than my W if I didn't know either one of them?" etc. I would then analyze these thoughts for hours afterward in the belief that doing so would cause me relief.
I hated these thoughts very much for the obvious reason: because they posed a threat to my R with my W. I felt horrible for having them and almost half the time didn't know if they were "true" or not. Sometimes they felt real; sometimes they didn't. I almost always came to the conclusion that they were not true and told my W this. I also always told my W that, despite my thoughts, they did not change the way I felt about her: that she was perfect to me and that I didn't want anybody else, no matter what they looked like. I always felt like my thoughts were "outside" or "apart" from how I REALLY felt about her.
For much of my R, I felt that I had to confess such thoughts to my W -- this, I believe, was a big compulsion (along with analyzing such thoughts for hours a day). At first, my W didn't care, but because my thoughts became an almost-daily struggle, she began to believe that they really were true -- because then why would they matter so much to me? (As a psychologist, I thought she would understand my brain-scape, but she did not.)
In the year or so prior to my W's A and the D, I felt that I had gotten so much better. My disorder was nowhere near how bad it was in the past, and in fact, on my W's B-day last year, less than a month before the revelation of OM, I thought that my thoughts were better than they'd ever been. There was a point when we went on a whale-watching trip together and had a blast; walking around somewhere, holding hands with me, my W looked up and said, "WCF...you're my best friend," and looked as though she might cry. I thought things were going to be okay. Then she met OM and things just fell apart.
I guess I could use some input on this. I don't feel that I was 100% to blame for my W's reaction to my thoughts. She already had some huge insecurities about her image (as I understand is normal for rape survivors), and my disorder unfortunately fed those insecurities.
I do, however, accept the reality that the things I did or said throughout our R was incredibly hurtful, and I wish (as I have told W many times) that if I could have done so much differently, I would have.
No, you were not 100% to blame. Let's face it, you were gripped by a disease, one that is difficult for people to understand. Especially because it didn't take the most "classic" form of handwashing or tapping, instead taking the less common form of compulsive confessing. (Some people with that form confess to crimes they didn't commit, etc.)
And your wife was particularly vulnerable to the painful effects because of her own insecurities.
You've owned your part, and you're mature enough to realize that she just might not be able to get over the pain that caused her. That's an adult response.
I think what all of us here see, is that she, in her pain and affair craziness, has been particularly brutal to you in return - deliberately so. And that her response has been very IMmature.
A mature W might say "Honey, I accept that your OCD was the reason why you said those hurtful things to me, but I just really don't want to stay in this marriage because it's too painful for me". A mature W would NOT be deliberately rubbing your nose in her affair, etc.
No, you were not 100% to blame. Let's face it, you were gripped by a disease, one that is difficult for people to understand. Especially because it didn't take the most "classic" form of handwashing or tapping, instead taking the less common form of compulsive confessing. (Some people with that form confess to crimes they didn't commit, etc.)
And your wife was particularly vulnerable to the painful effects because of her own insecurities.
You've owned your part, and you're mature enough to realize that she just might not be able to get over the pain that caused her. That's an adult response.
I think what all of us here see, is that she, in her pain and affair craziness, has been particularly brutal to you in return - deliberately so. And that her response has been very IMmature.
A mature W might say "Honey, I accept that your OCD was the reason why you said those hurtful things to me, but I just really don't want to stay in this marriage because it's too painful for me". A mature W would NOT be deliberately rubbing your nose in her affair, etc.
Now that new info had come in, I have a different take on it KML. I think her behavior and discussing OMs size and penis issues make total sense in context
he has been comparing her to OWs non stop every night AND telling her...he says "mostly" he concluded they were not more attractive..... so God only knows what happens if a truly gorgeous woman did walk in...
West would evdently openly overtly fantasize in such a way
that HE was frightened b/c It threateed his marriage (HIS words_)it is odd that I missed this earlier West.
I always ask for specifics but you did NOT say anything like this execept You were less sexually experienced than your w. I had no idea that it botherd you so much that you would choose to hurt her with this "fantasy life"
and make no mistake, she was VERY hurt. So you either were doing it to make up for her having had sex earlier, including that rape too??? And OR you were so clueless and immature you didn't contain your insecurities and lashed out at the one person who was loving to you and had nothing to do with your prior lack of inexperience...
You said you were depressed and undereemployed or lost your job and you mentioned VAGUELY that you were inexperienced and had OCD
but you never to my recall, told me that your "OCD" triggered THIS behavior
(and my nerdy brother has it, and Asperger's syndrome, but he has never told his wife such cruel things
WEST OMG....get help) or this will sabotage ALL future r's with Other women.
You never told me THIS STUFF and thats' weird and I feel chagrined.
I just blasted your w's cruelty, and NOW you mention that, night after night your marriage was crippled by your fantasies of OWs which you TOLD her about?
Hey I have to concede I don't buy that your diagnosis for THIS behavior is all OCD...there's a deeper darker thing going on I hope to God you'll address....
wow...it puts her behavior in a totally new light
YOU showed her that talking about "competitors" bodies and comparing was FINE....not insensitive. How many times did you do it to her? b/c it sounds like hundreds....or more...and I was all on your bandwagon about dumping her b/c I had never heard of a woman doing that to a guy she left, but see
it makes way more sense now, IN CONTEXT and
with her past as a rape victim to boot,
you two were a toxic mix for each other
hope you both heal
West, I hope you are in treatment for your OCD. It can be a debilitating disorder but there is treatment. I have a kid with severe OCD and while his treatment has helped, it will be with him for life. He struggles daily with intrusive thoughts and compulsions. His sx are pretty classic but there is a wide range of symptoms.
It's been our experience that even some psychologists don't understand it fully and you have to work to find the right person and the right combination of therapy and meds.
Rewind, Replay, Repeat by Jeff Bell provides an eye-opening look into what goes on in the mind on someone with OCD.
West, I too have a problem with OCD and perfectionism. My IC has really helped my overcome this, as I am not as bad now.
It is strange how OCD and perfectionism made me such a great Marine, but hurt my marriage.
The other day when my W and I had a long talk we discussed my perfectionist attitude. We talked about loading the dishwasher or refilling the ice trays. We laughed and when told her there is no right way, I can't believe I got upset about those things.
Something I realized was:
*Everybody has their own view of perfection, there is no true perfection, don’t expect perfection.
*Do set agreements on standards with each other
*Share housework (do it together) so you both know each other’s standards
*ALWAYS DO YOUR BEST
I am not saying I am cured from my OCD, but I am on the right track. That is why I keep recommending the book "The Four Agreements" to everyone, it truly changed my life.
A mature W might say "Honey, I accept that your OCD was the reason why you said those hurtful things to me, but I just really don't want to stay in this marriage because it's too painful for me". A mature W would NOT be deliberately rubbing your nose in her affair, etc.
I think this makes the difference between me and her. As painful as the things I said to her were, they were never said to deliberately hurt her -- always to quell the massive feelings of anxiety and guilt that I felt within me. (Which is selfish, as I should have thought more about how this was hurting her. I realize that now.)
I always ask for specifics but you did NOT say anything like this execept You were less sexually experienced than your w.
I went through this in full in my thread
"Youngster's WAW Still Chooses OM!", toward the bottom of page 9 and the top of page 10. I think, at the time, you were helping out MadeToSucceed -- I remember following quite a few comments that you made on his thread.
and make no mistake, she was VERY hurt. So you either were doing it to make up for her having had sex earlier, including that rape too??? And OR you were so clueless and immature you didn't contain your insecurities and lashed out at the one person who was loving to you and had nothing to do with your prior lack of inexperience...
I feel like I'm being bashed here. If I had to pick either option here, it would be the second one. Yes, I was clueless and immature. I had never been in an R with ANYONE before, especially not one so serious -- I had no idea how hurtful many of my behaviors were. If I had been more of a man, would I have ditched this awful behavior away before it had even occurred? You bet. But the things I said were not designed to purposely break her down, which both of your options seem to suggest was my intent.
You said you were depressed and undereemployed or lost your job and you mentioned VAGUELY that you were inexperienced and had OCD
With the former, you're mixing me up with MadeToSucceed. Somewhere in his sitch, he mentioned getting a football injury, gaining a lot of weight, being depressed, and possibly having some concerns about the fact that his W made more money than he did. The latter is me.
Hey I have to concede I don't buy that your diagnosis for THIS behavior is all OCD...there's a deeper darker thing going on I hope to God you'll address....
I believe that it was OCD, or at least something very similar. I went through the DSM-IV and went through the checklist of symptoms for OCD behavior, and I made nearly all of them. (If you want to take a look, check out this link:
OCD Criteria ) My behavior was marked by intense anxiety & fear, feelings of guilt and worthlessness, and feeling as though my mind did things beyond my control. It honestly felt very similar to drug addiction, only without the highs. Only lows.
OCD can be characterized by intrusive thoughts about things that offend the person who has it, including thoughts about religion or sexuality ("Do I hate God? / Am I sexually attracted to children? etc). My belief is that BECAUSE the thoughts are personally offensive, they cause so much anxiety. Hence, my W was so important to me that I wildly overreacted to any kind of thought that could tear our R apart. (If I had been a normal guy, I honestly would not have cared about such thoughts. I would have just not even acknowledged them. I was over the moon for my wife and loved being with her.)
with her past as a rape victim to boot, you two were a toxic mix for each other...hope you both heal
I think that here you are absolutely right. We both had terrible insecurities and our own respective mental traumas. We both need to heal from our traumas, as well as the effects that they had on our R together. I am currently seeing a C and am discussing all of this with her. I don't think my W is seeing a T/C, but I think that she should. She used to, anyway. (Her T at the time also remarked that I had "textbook OCD" when my W described my behavior to her.)
I still don't think that her A is justified, however. I understand that she was unhappy in our M and may have felt driven away from it -- I own my part of what made her unhappy. But she had other options available to her, and she chose the worst one. If she's truly happy in this current R, that's fine -- I want her to pursue what will make her happy. I have told her that I wish her the absolute best. But I refuse to let her keep me "in her back pocket," as you yourself said. I think you'd agree that her behavior there is not cool.
Thanks for your thoughts, labug and CO1978. I personally read "Brain Lock" by Jeffrey Schwartz and found it to be the book that worked for me the best.
WCF...have you actually been diagnosed as OCD by a train professional or did you just pick up the DSM-IV and compare it to how you are feeling?
Because until you receive a professional diagnosis I wouldn't lean too much on the thought that you suffer from OCD.
Fear and anxiety are also in hundreds of other conditions.
sorry you felt bashed but after we blasted your wife for being cruel,
when I compare her one time conversation with the MANY times you established this behavior (comparing spouses bodies to others)
then why can't she be given the same benefit of the doubt? YOu said you never did it to hurt her but we must assume SHE did intend to hurt you?
My point is you taught her this behavior, for whatever reason.
Harrier: This is a wise thing to remember. I have always felt convinced that I have had OCD because it is the only disorder that seems to fit my symptoms. I read many books & articles about the disorder during my darkest days, and each one seemed to describe me almost perfectly. However, in the sake of healthy skepticism, I will refrain from diagnosing myself until I get an official sanction from a T or C. (Perhaps I will raise this during my next appointment with current IC.)
25: I understand how you feel. I want you to know that I didn't intend to mislead any of you about myself or my W; I really did disclose the nature of my "behavior" several threads back. I understand that as a resident DB vet, you visit a lot of different threads and may be apt to miss stuff like that, as our threads are usually jam-packed. I appreciate that you're taking the time at all to address mine, as you are full of great advice.
I think that you are right to keep my side of the M's downfall and her A behavior very much in mind. Do I think that I "taught" her the comparison stuff, and that her explicit disclosures may be directly-related? I do, now that you say it so clearly. I never meant to hurt my W so badly, but I did, and now I must deal with the consequences of it. If our M can never be repaired, I will understand. I will be sure to keep such behavior from reappearing in a future R -- count on it. I'm not going back down that terrible road.
However, I'd like to know if I'm doing the right thing by going dark on her now. I feel that I am -- comparison behavior or not, I don't agree with being "there for her" during her A. Both of us have our respective demons to exorcise, and neither of us will get there without letting each other go.
Also, it must be heavily considered: if I was really such a hurtful monster in our R...how much sense does it make that W is still trying to seek me out and rely on me for her emotional needs, rather than OM? (It doesn't make much sense to me, personally.)
Harrier: This is a wise thing to remember. I have always felt convinced that I have had OCD because it is the only disorder that seems to fit my symptoms.
Most definitely get it diagnosed. I can think of 2 other disorders that fit your symptoms but don't want to say them here. But they are treatable. You don't have to deal with this on your own and hope you find your way through it. Given the risk you take and what you could lose again, I'd for sure get it diagnosed and professionally treated.
25: I understand how you feel. I want you to know that I didn't intend to mislead any of you about myself or my W; I really did disclose the nature of my "behavior" several threads back. I understand that as a resident DB vet, you visit a lot of different threads and may be apt to miss stuff like that, as our threads are usually jam-packed.
indeed, I am sure I did miss it b/c I would have known that it bore restating to remind those who did know. It is a bigger chunk of your marriages's issues than you seem to be suggesting recently and had I known this piece of the puzzle or had you brought it up again, I would have said so.
I appreciate that you're taking the time at all to address mine, as you are full of great advice.
I think that you are right to keep my side of the M's downfall and her A behavior very much in mind. Do I think that I "taught" her the comparison stuff, and that her explicit disclosures may be directly-related? I do, now that you say it so clearly. I never meant to hurt my W so badly, but I did, and now I must deal with the consequences of it. If our M can never be repaired, I will understand. I will be sure to keep such behavior from reappearing in a future R -- count on it. I'm not going back down that terrible road.
good-then get professional help for that specific behavior b/c there are NO women I know who would not be hurt by that,
and if you ever remarry you need to find better ways to handle this or rid yourself of it.
However, I'd like to know if I'm doing the right thing by going dark on her now. I feel that I am -- comparison behavior or not, I don't agree with being "there for her" during her A. Both of us have our respective demons to exorcise, and neither of us will get there without letting each other go.
agreed ^^^
Also, it must be heavily considered: if I was really such a hurtful monster in our R...how much sense does it make that W is still trying to seek me out and rely on me for her emotional needs, rather than OM? (It doesn't make much sense to me, personally.)
a) mind reading and b) co-dependent/mutually shared issues,
and c) why does it matter now?
and c) why does it matter now?
Because I don't want to KEEP hurting her. I did enough damage within the confines of the R. I really don't want to think that I'm continuing to be cruel by keeping my distance from her.
She is asserting that I am being heartless and mean by going dark, but in doing so, it seems like she's trying to guilt-trip me into staying in her life so she gets to have me AND OM, with zero consequences for her behavior. As guilty as I am and have always been of my own behavior, I refuse to make it up for that way. I don't think that kind of expectation of hers is fair either to me OR to her.
I just wanted to add this article that I just found:
Sexual Obsessions I'm leaving out the assumption that OCD was what I had, but again, this seems to sum up perfectly just what I was struggling with. Please believe me, I never meant to hurt anyone. I am not a bad person. I'm tired of feeling like some kind of monster or a freak for the things that I did or thought. I'm tired of feeling guilt every day for continually hurting the person that I love the most. I want to make things right, for me and for her.
I agreed you should both let each other go in the post to you.
Just think the rest of the questions are not answerable now.
But I'd stay out of each others' lives b/c for whatever reason, no matter who hurt whom first, your boundary is a normal one now...
West,
You've been on my mind for the past few days. I've been hesitant to post as I'm in a bit of a funk...
.... but here we go.
First, 25 makes alot of good points. ALOT.
Maybe she wouldn't have gone on a tangent about your w had she known about your OCD.. but even so.... I think that post was good and pretty dead on.
Yes.. it may make sense that she did those things to you seeing that you did them first.
But I can't buy that it's acceptable or makes it right. If your actions truly hurt you wife.. she had a choice to make.. and she made it - treat as you are treated.
I get it. My dad is abusive to my mom. My middle sister and I became people who were abused. My eldest sister - became an abuser.
.. so I understand why she chose that path. But hopefully she (and you) will understand that one choses his own path. Just as my sister chose to be an abuser.. I chose to be abused.
It is up to us as individuals to break the cycle. To stand on our feet and realize that what was doesn't have to be anymore.
I'm not sure of the point 25 is getting you to understand (sorry - day 8 of 15 hrs days).. but here is what you COULD take from it all.
By understanding how you contributed and why she acted that way about OM, you are opening up the door to forgiveness and healing.
For example: I'm on my 3rd day w/o coffee. I'm very cranky and find myself on edge... insanely.
I find myself struggling not to take it out on my best friend. (btw - I'm failing miserably at it).
As I was fuming in the car.. I realized that this must be what it felt like when my w started giving up all of those foods in her 12 step program.
And although it didn't make it RIGHT that she took it out on me constantly.. I finally understood how that was possible.....
..... and in the moment... I forgave my w for treating me like crap when it came to that issue.
I guess my point is to just push yourself to be more understanding.
Understanding and accepting doesn't make what your w said about OM right. It just opens your heart to to forgive her. It protects your heart from getting angry and bitter.
And I feel it isn't until those moments of forgiveness and true acceptance come.. we can truly love ourselves and others.
"And I feel it isn't until those moments of forgiveness and true acceptance come.. we can truly love ourselves and others."
This ^^^^ is very good!
West, I wish you well. I read that you don't want to continue as you have been. You don't want to keep hurting your W. Who knows why she wants to keep you in her backpocket and does it really matter? When I look back on all the stupid things I've done in my sitch, they all made perfectly good sense-TO ME at the time. Now some of it looks pretty crazy.
I hope you will talk with your IC about obsessive thoughts and get some treatment if necessary.
Val: Thanks so much for your wise advice, especially written in the midst of such arduous work days. I think that you're absolutely right that I need to keep a focus on how the things that I did contributed to the mess that we're in now. For a long time, I have firmly believed that it was my W -- not me -- who chose to take those steps down the road that she's on now.
However, I must always remember that I helped pave the path on that road, making it easier for her to travel down it. This is important to remember in order to remain compassionate and supportive towards her, even if I'm not in her life anymore. I know that she will eventually find her happiness, whether with me or with someone else. And I really do hope that she does. I still love her enough to hope for the best for her.
labug: I think we've all been guilty of stupid moments during our sitches. I know I've had a lot myself. But, as you insinuated, it doesn't really matter. In the end, all turns to dust. These moments may not matter years from now, so why go crazy over them?
Thanks, everybody. These last couple of days have been brutal, but I think it's necessary to face these demons head-on. My IC and I will have a lot of deep material to go over.
WCF, I'm sorry it's been a rough couple of days for you. However, I think you're using it wisely and taking an introspective look at yourself. I think you're also getting some good advice here and I think you're heeding it well.
Thanks, JB. It sounds like you're doing all right yourself.
Just wanted to add that I joined a 24-Hour Fitness gym a couple of days ago. I walked in just to see if they had any good deals. When I heard what they were offering, I jumped at the chance. All I had to do was pay first and last month's dues, plus a sign-up fee, which all amounted to about $65. Not bad at all.
Plus, my work provides a $20 monthly fitness reimbursement if you submit paperwork proving that you're signed up at a gym. Given that my monthly fee is $19.99 plus taxes, I'll only end up paying $1 and some change out of pocket each month.
Today, after a blistering strength workout, I went over to a friend's house. I've known her since high school; she grew up in my home town. A while back, we found out that there's only a half-hour long drive between us; we decided to meet up again this weekend. We get along great and share many interests. I stuck around for spaghetti & french bread and watched You-Tube videos of Norm MacDonald doing interviews on late-night TV. Sure beat being by myself on a Saturday night.
Update.
I have been very much enjoying my new gym. I try to go there once a day -- I get to stay warm while working out. Plus, there is a large variety of weights so I can get looking my best.
My area has been slammed by a ferocious snow storm. Many tree branches fell down and knocked out power lines, so my apartment was without power for about two days. I did okay the first day, but last night, I was forced to take one of the coldest showers ever after working out hard at the gym. :P
I also used my fireplace for the first time, so at least I had some heat and light going for me. Blessedly, the power came back on at 2 AM this morning. I've never been so happy to see a light go on. I feel sorry for those poor homeless souls who are outside without a home in this beastly weather.
My work has been very accommodating about the weather. For two days, we were allowed to close three hours early, and we were provided free lunch on both days for showing up. I work hard!
WE had a giant power outage here in San Diego recently, and even though the weather was fine, it was shocking how many problems it caused - none of the gas stations worked, so people had trouble getting home from work, etc.
I swore I was gonna get one of those LED camping lanterns, and somebody told be about a car battery charger thingie that could also charge your cell phone and laptop.
Of course, have I done any of those things??? No! LOL
I do have a gas stove and a fireplace though, definitely helpful.
Wow, sounds like that really gummed up the works for everybody! Personally, for light, I used a little halogen flashlight that I got from my father-in-law as a stocking stuffer some years back. It's small, but the light is powerful and lasts a while. I might suggest one of those, too. Might be good to throw in the glove compartment.
I do have a car charger for my cell phone, but the problem was that I was never in my car long enough to charge it very much. I ended up having to take my phone to work and charge it there.
I had a great weekend.
I stocked up on a lot of groceries yesterday -- I spent a lot more than I had intended, but I needed those things. I have been inspired to make some big changes to my diet -- more lean meats, veggies, fruits, legumes, beans, brown rice, non-fat dairy, and including egg whites. I'm also going to cut way back on my sodium intake. It's scary how much salt they pump into stuff.
I've also been working on my writing. I finished a short story I was working on when my power was out. Now I have three short stories to revise, as well as a novel that has been awaiting revision for months.
Today, I met with my C again. This session went really well (as they always seem to do), and we explored a lot of stuff. Here are some highlights:
--I asked her straight off: Did my "behavior" in the past sound like OCD to her? Yes, she said, I definitely did have it. "You could go right down the list and check them off," she said. It made me feel more at ease -- better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
--I said that I was having concerns that my OCD made me a bad person in that I hurt my W so much in dealing with it. She said no, I wasn't a bad person at all. I had done the best I could in that situation. She was honestly surprised that I didn't get professional help when these symptoms became a real problem.
--She said we both were responsible for the R's implosion, not just me. We were both young, and we had tried the best that we could, but we made a lot of errors because of our lack of experience and our own separate demons. Again, she was surprised that we hadn't looked into professional help like couples' counseling.
--I talked about the last convo I had with my W. She thought that my W's behavior was not only inappropriate and weird, she also seems to be "objectifying" me -- I'm something to have and control to her rather than a person of worth. I agreed with this assessment.
--We wrapped things up by discussing my doubt that I could ever resume an R with my W. I told her how I often felt cut off from the world around us during our R and how much power I constantly deferred to her in order to define myself. C said that it sounded like we had a "parental R" -- my W was the parent and I was the child who looked to her for everything. She thought that this long-standing dynamic would be the biggest deterrent to repairing the R; we're both going to become very different people than who we were.
--She said that I should spend this time dating casually (either alone or with a group), defining myself, and just generally being a twenty-something. I told her that many had suggested MeetUp.com, had she ever heard of it? Of course she has, she answered, she recommends it to all of her patients! (So I'm definitely going to do that in a big way.)
A lot to think about, but I came away very happy and felt better about myself and my life in general. I'm not just going to be okay -- I'll be better than I ever was before.
I'm not just going to be okay -- I'll be better than I ever was before.
Amen!!!
Hey WCF! How's it going? Just checking in to see how you are doing. Hope all is well.
Things are going great, really. Hope everything is good for you! If I haven't been around here for a while, it's because I've reached the point where I'm ready to live my life and enjoy it without my W. I really don't think that things will work out for us.
Weirdly enough, I'm happier than I've ever been. There were some really good things about our R, but now that I've gotten some distance from it, I'm realizing that there were a lot of really bad things, too, that both of us contributed. I'm still dark and happy with that.
W has only just e-mailed me letting me know that she's taking herself off of the AAA membership but that it's up to me to renew it or cancel it. She's either being nice in letting me know or using it as a way to contact me. Can't tell, so I won't worry about it.
I work out a LOT and do cardio every day. I'm getting stronger and my stamina is greater, and I get that endorphin rush, too! My writing is going great -- I'm revising several short stories and really liking how they turned out. I recently did my taxes and found out that I actually owe money because there wasn't that much deducted from my paychecks, but I've got a lot of $$$ in savings that I didn't have before, so I'm not sweating it.
I'm feeling very ready to be more social. I will be joining a local writing group on MeetUp today.
You are sounding great!
Sometimes, the silver lining is so bright.....
Glad you're doing well, WCF. It sounds like you're doing a great job with the exercise. Someday, you'll have to write a book under the pen name of westcoastfella!
Thanks, jb! I am definitely more active & healthy than I've ever been. Definitely a 180 from who I was for most of my life: hated exercise with a passion, sat on my butt playing video games/reading books/watching movies, and ate heaping portions of the worst kind of food. I'm glad I reverted early -- I'm probably adding years onto my life!
A book written as "Westcoastfella" -- now that would be interesting.
My mom, stepdad, and stepbrother are coming up today from my hometown to cheer at a high school wrestling tournament and visit my grandpa. While they're here, they're going to visit my apartment for the first time and take me along on the grandpa visit. I'm excited!
I'm doing really well at work. My boss recently commissioned me to write a comment on our credit union president's blog, and she was overjoyed at what I wrote (I'm an English graduate, so I knocked it out of the park). "You're doing a great job," she said. "I see a lot of potential in you." Made me glow!
I'm planning on going to my first MeetUp writing meeting next Thursday.
Hey, all. Just thought I'd pop in for a quick update. I've been combing through people's threads and seeing what's going on. For the most part, I see some really awesome progress. This site has really been a life-saver for more than just myself.
I went to that writer's meeting. It wasn't huge, and I didn't have the chance to really connect with anyone, but it was definitely a step forward. The coffee shop where we met was awesome (had a unique decor that Starbucks just can't match), and it's one more social thing that I've done. I am planning to do more.
I recently applied for a position at work that would pay me $200 more a month plus mileage to support multiple branches of my bank. 4 other people applied. My interview went really well. We'll see what happens. I could really use the extra $$$.
I have recently read two books by Dale Carnegie that have had a profound effect on me: "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and "How to Stop Worrying and Start Living." Both contain some amazingly practical advice about how people work, even though both were published decades ago. I would advise anyone to check them out. "Worrying" has an amazing section on positive thinking to combat depression and increase overall happiness.
Haven't talked to W much. She T'd me telling me that she will be visiting at the end of this month and would like to have the rabbit. During that time, I can sign the D papers and she can file them. I said sure. She also called me at 10 PM last night (probably 12-1 AM her time) and didn't leave a VM. It could have been an accidental dial, but then again, maybe not. I'm not going to waste much more time thinking about it.
I have an appt. with my C tomorrow. Haven't seen her in weeks. Can't wait.
Life is a daily gift! I'm so very glad to be alive and making the changes that I'm making. I wish you all the best. I don't think that I'll be here as often as I used to because I don't really need the site as I did before, but I'll still visit every now and then. Make way for the new waves and all that.
WCF, I'm just dropping in. It sounds like you're in a really good place. I'm glad to hear it!
So...is the Kirby girl still around or is she long in the rear view mirror?
I am in a good place. Yesterday was my last session with my C. She said, "I think this is your last session. You're on your way." I told her, "Actually, I was thinking the same thing before I got here, that this was gonna be my last one. I don't need therapy before like I used to."
We'll see what the future holds for me.
Kirby girl is still in the picture. We're just friends, but she does call a couple of times a week when she's bored and wants to talk. She's a good influence on me. She often has to remind me that I think too much about things.
Next big goal: telling W that I'm tired of these "bunny visitations." Either she can have the rabbit or I can, but I'm fed up with having to come in contact with her just so she can see him. It's a playing card that she's using on me, and nothing more.
I read up on your sitch, too, JB. Great job of holding it down, as always.