My older post reached its limit. starting a new one
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2178446&page=1Journaling...
So i finally bought a motorcycle!!
I am shocked myself too. That was a big decision. I usually talk to dozen people, wife especially. contemplate, contemplate and then buy. This was impulsive. But it does feel good. I bought it used. Not bad for the price though.
That was yesterday and that was a high. So naturally today was low. I guess it is because i wanted to share that excitement with wife and daughter. Then reality hit me. Oh well, atleast i told my parents and they were excited for me.
Right now in a weird holding pattern with wife. With all the talk we had last week, i think in a way i excepted something positive. But now it just looks like whatever it was, just died down.
Back to my life and my activities!
"So i finally bought a motorcycle!!"
Outstanding. Whadja get?
Good for you, myk! Enjoy.
So i finally bought a motorcycle!!
Man that is awesome!! Like the others - whadja git? whadja git?
so sorry for going AWOL over the weekend. I signed up for the motorcycle safety driving course that is mandatory to get the motorcycle license in texas. This course just about killed us. Not because it was tough. Because i opted for afternoon test drive. And right now in Texas, you do not wanna be out there in the afternoon
I got a used Suzuki GZ250. It is a 250cc cruiser. Starter bike.
Very well maintained. Has only 1500 miles on it.
I am pretty sure i might not keep it for more than 3 years. So i figured why not get something affordable. I can still get on the highway. Right now in honeymoon stage...cleaning it and admiring it
Journaling...
Wife and I are trying to teach daughter some songs. I know more than wife so I try to make her repeat after me when we skype.
Last night she sang one fully on her own. I was very proud. Wife was very excited. She was asking me again and again how i felt. I told her that i felt very proud and that if i was there i would have hugged daughter. Then she started talking about her cousin's kids and how his wife teaches the kids. Then she started saying how she too tries to so stuff. I was just listening. Did not say anything. Then she said "yea i guess you would not understand. Gotta go now". I just said okay and hung up.
All this crazy drama. Now i see this drama. In the past i would have freaked out that wife was angry because of something i must have done. I could have called back begging her to tell me if i had done something wrong. She would have said that i did not respond to her comment. And then an argument would have broken out and W would have ended up telling me how i don't support her in anything. So funny. After years of going through this, i can predict the event unfolding down to even tiny details
Now i can see it. She just likes the drama. Why i don't know. She obviously felt insecure when comparing herself to her cousin's wife. She does this a lot and never once did i actually make her feel bad. Always told her a 'white' lie. But she always prolonged the drama.
When i see all this now, i don't know how i managed all those years. Now i see why i always had that crazy feeling that i always had to be on my guard of not upsetting her. It got so tiring after we had our daughter. I know that my weak emotional attitude also contributed heavily to all the craziness.
I know that she is upset after yesterday's convo. It did bother me a bit for a little while. But i brushed it off. I cannot be hanging onto every dysfunctional feeling of hers. Sounds harsh. But i gotta keep my sanity too...
myk.....what can I say? You are doing fantastic. That ^^^^ is great.
MK, I'm tryin to catch up on threads between meetings. Work intrudes ya know. Congrats on the bike.
About ^^^^, what happened to the MK we met in Jan, dam man where is the pod?
. Seriously it is good to read.
When i see all this now, i don't know how i managed all those years. Now i see why i always had that crazy feeling that i always had to be on my guard of not upsetting her.
I understand completely. Now that the blinds are off, you will never be able to put them back on. For stuff like ^^^ that is fantastic.
Now you get to love the both of you. And that my friend.. is good news!
Thanks LITB, JS, Valeska. Yup i can see things clearer now. I guess the worry now is "Do i really wanna go back into those waters again???". I am ready to jump right in whenever i see my daughter. I want her to grow up happy with both parents. But when i see my W and her old habits, that enthusiasm fades.
I guess this is where the LBS has to let the WAS make their own journey.
I guess the fact that i am turning 35 next week is also contributing to my regress a bit.
MK, I don’t see you as regressing. I see expression of a hope you’ve always had. I think you had a moment of clarity and it now is helping you grow.
I guess this is where the LBS has to let the WAS make their own journey.
Yes of course, the same is true in a larger sense for all relationships, healthy ones anyway. Let her make her journey and her growth.
Focus on helping your daughter grow, it is a Dad’s mission.
Allow what will be to be.
Having been there I will tell you 35 was a fun year, there will be many more to come, keep growing
Thanks 2Step. Yea definitely daughter is my first priority.
Journaling....
Just this morning i was thinking about my sitch and on how stagnated it was. Well W made it interesting. She called up asking to talk.
So 2 weeks ago, the macho me told her that i would ask her once if she wanted to come back. I thought she forgot and did not want to ask about it.
Apparently she had been thinking about it. In a nutshell, she called up to say that she is still thinking and that she is figuring out stuff on her own.
That is good. But the whole conversation with her just bought back bad memories. Not the details of the convo, but the way it went.
Wife kept telling me of her own discovery. For the most part i listened and answered her questions. Occasionally i added my own wisdom i gained. Some things that did stick with me are.
1: She still somehow feels that the community is not gonna let her be if she takes the decision to divorce.
2: She reading some books and already reaching conclusions that if she decides to come back then she just tune out my issues. That's not the right approach.
3: Again she keeps telling me on how her decision to divorce was a good one as it helped 'all' of us. In a way i agree with her. But we could have chosen a better way to figure out our issues.
4: All those words that i used to freak out when talking to her just came back. It really took me back about 8 months. And that familiar fear came back. statements like "Just forget it. my mistake to expect this from you", "This has always been an issue in our marriage. Nothing has changed", "Why is it that it is so hard to have a convo with you??".
I feel like a fool after the convo that i am scared just like how i was in the past. I thought i'd never let that fear come to me. But it did. Now i am wondering if made any progress at all.
Now with this convo, I am having a bad feeling on getting back with her. I just experienced the past today and it was not good.
I am happy now with whatever i have left. If my wife's attitude has not changed at all, I dont think wanna get back on that boat.
She even talked about coming to me and sitting down and talking. I am not sure about what. Then she tells me that she is in no way ready to bring daughter back with her until she and I can have a good R. I told her that the step to piecing begins with what she wants first. Later we can think about daughter. Then she gets upset.
another whopper was when she asked me why i wanted her back. I told her "I told you the reason last time we talked. It is because i still have feelings for you". Then she says thats not sufficient. I am not sure what else is she expecting. I though love or having 'feelings' toward someone was important. She says that respect is important, which i agree. Then she starts talking about how we put each other down. I am not sure what she's trying to do. Rehash the past, or try to work toward the future.
All this 'drama' i have experienced in the past. Today when i talked with her, i felt down, like i made zero progress, like i have no clue what i was doing. But in reality i see my life and i know that i am in control, that i have setup my own little life and my own routines. Do i really want her to come and judge me and make me feel like crappy?
Compared to getting back with her, this lonely life of mine seems much better.
She is going to rehash the past over and over, because that is all she really knows of you. Even if you have changed, it would take a lot of re-programming for her to believe and accept it. She is testing you to see if you have strength and resolve in your changes.
Just because you went back to your old way of feeling and thinking, it doesn't mean you haven't changed, or that you cannot learn from what you feel and work on it. It is called back-sliding, and it is part of this process. Part of your growth is learning to accept you will have down moments, but resolving to shake them off anyway. This is possibly where true inner strength must be summoned, during the down-cycles.
She came to you to discuss R. She even wants to meet in person. Small positive sign, take it for what it is. She is having doubts. Find a way to avoid her R talk for now. What she really wants to do is test you and your congruence (whether you have actually changed and it is not just an act or illusion). You must avoid the tests, and/or pass the ones she does manage to hook you on. Stick to the basics, avoid R talk, GAL and stay busy. Keep letting her see you have changed, just don't discuss it with her.
Hold the line!
SF
Thanks Mike!
Yea i need to have the confidence about myself. Otherwise i will risk myself emotionally.
Yea i did figure that she was testing me. In a way i guess i was upset because i guess at some level i still have not truly forgiven her.
That also tells me i too have ways to go for myself here.
Journaling....
Well yesterday's convo was okay. I mean convo with daughter. Since we skype everyday, wife can see me and I, her. This sunday she asked me as to why i looked tired. I told her it was because i just came back from a 3 hour bicycle ride. She said "Are you exercising for a girlfriend?". I knew she joked(she knows that i am horrible in talking to women) but still told her "no, i don't". Now i feel i should told her a white lie
She still has no clue about the motorcycle. I have this nagging bad feeling that i should have told her about it. Then again, she never asks me anything about myself. I'll just have to deal with it when she finds out.
Last week when we talked i did tell her "Wife i just want you to know that i am not gonna be living alone if we decide to split. I will search for someone else. I think she took it as i am actively looking for someone. She did sound upset by it yesterday when she called. I clarified saying I am not looking for anyone. Now i feel dumb as to why i tried to calm her fears down
Even now when we have a convo i do have this lil hint of fear, though it has gone down a lot. I feel a lot more confident when talking to her.
Enough rambling.....
It is the fear that tells you are not where you need to be just yet, although from the beginning till now you have become a new man.
All the time we say or do something that gets a negative reaction from our W and then we beat ourselves up over and over again, ‘I should not have said this, I should not have done that’ no one is perfect so mistakes will happen but don’t rush to correct everything you do.
I am not sure why you are worried about the bike, you did it for you right? So if she wants to know she can ask no reason to explain yourself to her.
She made a decision and while her words might tell you something her actions are clear enough….aren’t they?
If she wants to reconcile then I imagine the same conviction she used to leave you can be used to get you back.
I am not sure why you are worried about the bike, you did it for you right? So if she wants to know she can ask no reason to explain yourself to her.
lol. Say hello to 11 years of conditioning(self conditioning in my case)!!
myk,
on the whole, I see progess in you mostly (IDK your w)...but dang, SHE said she's "thinking" about your question.
Can we give a tiny little round of applause for that? That's frickin' huge for her.
But I hear you about your new life being a lot more peaceful than going backwards.
But you might well be able to have a NEW M with her. How?
You have the cultural advantage (or disadvantage?) of stigma w/divorce. She actually does feel pressure to work on things with you.
What if her reasons for reconciling are not what you'd like BUT she does the work?
Why does it matter why she returns IF she is willing to attend real MC and or Retrovaille? I'm just asking. I don't have a specific answer. Just want to toss that out.
BTW, you have made remarkable changes Myk. You are a changed man even if you backslide a bit with her. When your interactions with her are calmer at your end, when you don't allow yourself to "re-attach/reengage" with the old stuff
you'll feel so much better.
You may need to make that mantra about "From this day forward", hers...meaning, she will have to let go of her scorecard soon if there's any chance or reconciling. You already have but you could tell her you "will" and hope she will too.
Just super unhelpful.
Finally, IF you were to reconcile, how would YOU be different now?
If you can articulate this, specifically, it will give you vision and clarity of what your goals are and might get her to start thinking along those lines...as in
how would SHE be different?
We on DB know it takes two to make it work but it only takes one to get things started. Since you are here posting, and not her, that "one", has to be you.
Your changes are being noticed! She doesn't trust them yet, but a part of her wants to. IMO, she'd love to believe things could be better for you and her and d. (Not sure of all the reasons why, but it's what my gut tells me.)
Imagine if she felt safe with you, more secure, had more of a partner. If she believed all the changes you have made will last.
I think that's when she'd feel safe enough to make some of her own changes. Make sense?
Good luck Myk, even if you don't reconcile, I think this is great news.
25. That support coming means a lot. Thanks!!
I have to say. Thanks to all you guys, I do feel a lot different and better.
Why does it matter why she returns IF she is willing to attend real MC and or Retrovaille? I'm just asking. I don't have a specific answer. Just want to toss that out.
For me it does not matter. All i want is us to co-operate so we have a stronger happier marriage. Problem is that even as recent as yesterday she kept bringing up how i made it toxic for her. I am getting tired to repeating it to her i do own them. But somehow she cannot seem to get over them. She told me that she is working on her self. I told her "P, take your time and work on yourself. When you are ready to make a decision either way, let me know". So yea, i'll wait(albeit not forever) so she can find her center.
Finally, IF you were to reconcile, how would YOU be different now?
If there's one thing i learnt through this process, it is how much i need to believe in myself, be a stronger and confident man. I feel good about myself, my abilities in handling R. That helps me to be a better husband to her. No more Mr emotional basket case. If i have a problem, i'll will discuss it with her in a mature manner. No more freaking out like a kid.
how would SHE be different?
Respect me for who i am and stop trying to change me into someone else. I am a reasonable person and can work with her if she has some issues with me. Own her mistakes if she makes them rather than trying to find a scapegoat: No more excuses!.
I have to say, nowadays i feel that i'll be better even if she decides otherwise. The only thing that gets me is my daughter who i believe does not deserve this. Both I and W are reasonable people. I dont see why we cannot make this R work.
But I hear you about your new life being a lot more peaceful than going backwards.
But you might well be able to have a NEW M with her. How?
I thought i answer this too.
For a long time i was in a R that i did not know how to manage. Unfortunately i either chose or did not have rolemodels to mimic. I also did not know what to expect from a woman(wife was the first girl i talked to for more than 1 hr).
Now i have been living for about 8 months by myself. I read here on these forms, talk to people, go out with friends. Now when i talk to wife, i don't know how to explain this, but i have this out of body experience on our convo and how bad it is. I can hee how wife is reacting to somethings, how she gets stuck in the past and her misery, how she feels the world is out to get her etc. I never saw these before. I guess it was because of my own immaturity. Now i see them and i am scared. scared as to "do i really wanna have these kids of convo with her?". One part of me says "Take the challenge". Other says "Run!!". I just need to figure out which voice i should listen to
or you could have new healthy conversations with her as
part of the new healthy marriage?
There are tools out there for you and her. If the time comes...and ps
I just want to see her face when she learns of the bike. Like if she sees a pic of you on it.
You have nothing to worry about there. It's your cheap FUN method of alternative transportation. Why on earth would she have any right to decide a thing on that?
You didn't ask to give d a ride did you? Okay then...sheesh, you were conditioned!
I think you shoudl Go take a spin on that thing...
Oh, and don't think your flashbacks equate to no growth or that you are bound to old behaviors. You are a free man with free will.
But nor do all of your perceptions of her old behaviors mean she hasn't changed at all.
She is not done. Not done growing, evolving, or being married to you.
Remember how you became a man only a fool would leave?
Well, Maybe she's not a fool.
just my .02 buddy.
Thanks 25. I am definitely leaning toward the 'Take the challenge' part right now. As i said both of us are reasonable people and maybe now it is my turn to help her out understand how to work with each other to have a healthy marriage (when we get there).
As of now i am giving her the time. She said she is finding herself. I'll let her figure herself out. I am getting some insight into her changes. As of now, not much hope. I guess it is because she just started her journey. I need to give her more time. heh, look at me judging her....I never thought i'd get to that place
Not being affected by someone else's emotions is a healthy life skill, not just for your W, but for everyone in life (boss, kids, parents, in-laws, friends). Of course the more emotionally invested in someone you are, the more affected you tend to be by their negativity.
I still struggle with it today. If W is in a bad mood, it gets me frustrated and puts me in a bad mood. I am constantly working on being more emotionally independent of other people. Unfortunately most people are this way, and completely oblivious to the fact. Some people place 100% of the blame for their mood on to others or external events, which is never a good thing.
As for the bike, this is a good test of how "self-actualized" you are. When she finds out about the bike, your job is to not be affected my her reaction.
Remember, you do not need her approval!
MK - It sounds like you are in a good place right now, whether or not you R. You are in a place where you will now R the right way, instead how you may have done it in the past. I see some promising possibilities in your situation, regardless of the final outcome. You have come a long way.
I think think ought to take the bike to her place and rev it up a few times on her doorstep.
Can we give a tiny little round of applause for that? That's frickin' huge for her.
Agreed.
The tough part now Karma. Things like this can lead to you letting your guard down. Reverting back. This is what I see a bit.
Just a few posts back you sounded as strong as I've heard from you.
Keep this. It's needed more now than ever.
I go to a meeting and see what happens. We need an edit button and an
alertI posted this over on TM's thread, then on TG's, now here
I do not know where I read this recently or who posted it. I do remember thinking absolutely right, and not just here.
Very often people do not value what is given to them freely. They value what they have had to work forEveryone on this board has value. Everyone on this board is worth working for. If she experiences her transplant if you decide to reconsider, if you decide to sell yourself back to her, then value yourself accordingly.
I used to tell a date, I can be had, but I ain’t cheap
Thanks CS, Jbnati, JS, SF : Yea i needed my compass re calibrated
Journaling....
The weekend was uneventful apart from helping a friend help fix his AC in his VW bug. That really was a great experience and ego booster. The dealer had charged him $2000 to fix it. Yup, it took a while in the hot sun, but it was worth the effort. I got a kick out of fixin his car and he now has AC!! I think i even bragged about this to daughter(not that she understood) during our talks.
On monday i turned 35. Woohoo!!. Wife told me earlier on sunday that she would not tell daughter about my Bday on Monday. Instead she would tell her when i go there to see daughter. That way daughter would not feel bad that she was not there for my Bday. I dunno, it made sense, it did not make sense. I just told her whatever is fine.
So on Monday i was at the DPS waiting for my motorcycle license when i got a call from wife. I did not pick it up then. Later after i got out, i returned the call and she picked up.
M : "Hey looks like you called me. I am returning your call"
W : "Oh i did not mean to call you. I was trying to call someone. Looks like i dialed your number"
M : "Oh ok"
W : "Oh hey happy birthday"
M : "thanks"
W : "So you are 35 now"
m : " Yea i am"
W : "You know about the talk we have been having. I have a suggestion. We know that we are poor in communicating with each other. So maybe we can try getting to know each other to see if it works out. I am still not sure. Maybe we can meet under a counsellor so that he can tell us if we are going off track. I don't want daughter to suffer. She is gonna suffer either way. What do you think. You can let me know if it is okay with you or not"
M : "You told me what you think. Let me think and get back to you.. Okay? bye."
W : "Bye"
The first thing that struck me was "why did she say she did not mean to call me, but then wished me when i called. It was almost like i was seeking her wishing. I just felt like crap. It was like she was so intent in showing me that she did not need me and was throwing some kind of morsels at me
The second thing was the whole counsellor thingy. Problem is that we tried this before. it did not work out. Right now she has turned the problem around and is trying to play with her rules. I told her to first figure out if she wants to get back. Then we can figure out. To her this is a problem of logistics (that we cannot communicate). For me it is a problem of "do we love each other enough that we are willing to do what it takes". Again it seems like we are oceans apart in our thinking.
My head is hurting thinking about all this.
I'd love to hear any of your opinions guys!
Hey Karma,
My first thought.... She is trying. In her own way. But regardless man. She TRYING. HUGE!
You said you've done the MC thing before and it didn't help. But aren't you very different than when you did this before? Can it be different?
You say you're oceans apart. But this is one of the reasons good communication is necessary. To understand the other even when we may disagree. But to UNERSTAND.
BTW, I think she may have been fibbing about not meaning to call you. Just a hunch. Not that it really matters.
Agree with CS.
Stop overthinking it all man. Why feel bad about that interaction? You were simply returning her call, not your fault. Where is STRONG CONFIDENT Karma who doesnt care if she approves or not?
Just because MC didnt work before doesnt mean it cant work this time. Not only have you changed as CS said, but you could also use your new knowledge to select a better MC. New you and changing the MC is changing two thirds of the recipe completely.
The fact that she is suggesting it is a huge step forward. That means she is starting to doubt that she has made the best decision for her and your daughter.
You should take this positive and be happy with it. Some people would give their right arm for that kind of progress.
Remember, the real challenge is YOU, not her. Keep working on that.
CS, SF : Thanks so much for your feedback.
I agree. This is huge coming from her.
I failed to mention another part of the tale that made me question all the stuff...talking to my family. I talk to my aunt whose suggestion i do listen. I think some of her negative feedback of my wife did rub off on me. Oddly before talking to my aunt, i too thought the same stuff that you guys suggested.
Yea, maybe this time with the MC will be different. I'll have to try. Yup, this time i am not gonna be passive. I also think she would benefit from hearing from a 3rd person instead of just me.
Thanks guys!
Happy belated birthday Myk!!
MK, in this instant gratification society when we make choices we often just go with what we want. We see it, we want it, and we choose it. Rarely do we weigh the risks.
<Begin pure speculation>
I do not think for one second she pocket dialed your number. I think she told you exactly why she called. I think when you did not pick up she was embarrassed and covered. I think she is under family pressure to try and make it work again.
<End pure speculation>
She chose to call you and took a risk of rejection, small yes, still she chose it. I believe she considered it.
Will she choose to make a real effort in this next getting to know you/communication exercise? We can’t know and speculating about it will waste energy.
You’ve chosen to do this. Given a similar set of circumstances so would I.
What do you risk? How do you mitigate the risks?
You are a different person now than you were when this began. One of the risks I perceive from posts you’ve made is overreaction to fear. I perceive one of your fears is reverting to the old MK. I have no doubt you’ll be under stress at some point. When I am under stress I catch myself reverting and I compensate with these new skills I have learned. You will also.
I perceive some of your new skills as assertiveness and control of self. Do not overcompensate to domination and controlling behaviors. I did and look where I am now.
Read Spellfires sig line. It is a truth. I stand by my earlier post. Don’t sell yourself cheaply, and be a commodity she needs to purchase.
Hey Myk, happy belated b-day! You need to update your sig now!
I'd been meaning to get over to your thread to just say how I think you're doing so well, now. You've come a long way in your journey!
Everything that has been said above by the others, I'd simply repeat...
On the phone call, whether she butt dialed or not...
Did she leave a vm to let you know she didn't mean to call? Do you normally call her back when she calls, vm or not?
I think you did a great DB on returning the call and unless you did call her hoping to get a happy birthday comment, then you were simply DBing... and hey... she didn't have to wish you a happy b-day... she could have just said, "didn't mean to call"
And on the MC thing...
Like everyone said, you're in a different mindset, now... that alone changes the dynamic...
second, last time you went to MC, did you initiate it, or did she... I expect YOU asked for it and she went... even if not... understand that SHE is asking for MC at this time...
Because you're in a better place, you could probably last 10 sessions just listening... while she complained about you and your communication issues... until the MC finally holds a mirror up in front of her and she faces HER issues...
Keep on truckin' man! You really are in a good place!
Thanks LITB, KD, JS.
Hey, yup, need to update my sig now
JS : What you said is absolutely right. I think i failed to look at things from her POV. Yup, i have to be careful not to fall into trap of thinking that control is being assertive. Thats a fine line i have to learn to distinguish. Thanks for pointing it out.
KD : You are right about the MC. I thought about it yesterday. In the past whenever we went to the MC, it was always to figure out my issues and help me. I was the big patient. It never even occurred to me that i too should be trying to figure out what actions of hers hurt me and convey them. Now i see things a lot more clearly. I guess now when we do go to the MC, i know that i am not totally screwed up. This time perhaps i can use the MC to figure out we can truly make it work.
The only thing i need to figure out is how control this old fear that seems to be resurfacing a lil bit. Fear of 'what happens if it does not work out??' But even here, i am much better now than i was back in Jan.
Oh dang -- haven't been here in a while and here you are having awesome positive progress in your relationship with your wife. Keep it going, Karma! And happy conception day!
Always remember, most people who know you are not really interested in helping you. It is not that they do not love you, sometimes that very love clouds their judgement. Sometimes they will be angry at your W and that will affect their words. Some just like the attention and sound of their own voice and don't really have anything of value to offer. Maybe there is someone who can offer objective wisdom, but that is a rare person indeed.
It is best if you also "DB" friends and family members, both yours and hers. What I mean is, don't be influenced by their opinions. Keep your core strong and resiliant to negative influence. Trust in yourself and what you have learned. Look to objective third parties for wisdom, not those with an emotional investment.
If you find conversation with a particular person is bringing you down, cut off the R talk with them (not all talk, just R talk).
Thanks for dropping by Alamo. "Conception day?" Hey not sure what this
SF : Yup, you are very right that people close to us can tend to give us wrong advice even though they did not intend to. My aunt loves me a lot and right now she is pissed off at my wife. I usually take any advice with a lot of salt
Yup, someone here suggested the same about DBing family too. I DB a lot with my mom. It does work wonders.
I think right now i'll need to give myself some time to process all this stuff. I am not gonna hurry on anything. I am sure my wife can wait if she does not hear my feedback on her suggestion.
Took some time off the forums for the long weekend. Had some pending garage projects that needed some attention.
I still have not replied to wife about her suggestion on us meeting each other under a counsellor. I really want to take some time for myself. I am feeling very conflicted and angry about her nowadays. I guess i am more angry with myself when i look back to see how badly i compromised myself over the years. If i knew what i was doing wrong, i could tried to help both of us.
I guess 'batter late than never'. I am surprised about myself as how i feel that i should expect some attributes from my partner. I never had this expectation from my wife.
A new twist is also the crazy fires burning near Austin. Thankfully my house is not nearby, but i feel terrible about all the folks who lost their homes. It really destroys your sense of security.
Journaling.
Wow I am now going longer before i journal here or even visit the site. Not that i am now coping better. I think i am back on the familiar path of getting stuck with my hobbies. Time to tone my hobbies down a bit.
This weekend was grandparents day. Wife told me during the week to visit daughter next week. It did not even strike me until the weekend as to why she said it. It did hurt. But i tried to drown it by binge eating this weekend. Just wanted down time this weekend and did not call daughter.
This morning i just had an epiphany. I never really analyzed my wife through all the years. I guess i always thought that i was so 'defective' that i did not have the rights to analyze her. Now when i do i see how different we are. I wear my heart on my sleeve. If my wife did not contact me for a day or two, i'd freak out and call her to make sure everything was okay. Every day when i talk with daughter, i also tell 'bye' to wife even if she does not reciprocate. I am realizing that we are so different. I guess she is not as expressive as i am. I guess the worse part is my family somehow always though that my wife and her family were 'cold'. Meaning that they gave more importance to their decisions and judgements. I used to brush them away thinking it was usual family feud stuff. Now i am beginning to see that wife can completely hide her true feelings just because either her ego comes in her way or she does not want to appear soft. Either way, I am begining to see it. I never thought i had a choice in choosing a person whom i chose to love. My family chose my wife and i decided to love her. I feel dumb now.
I dunno. lots of rambling. I'll need to take some time to find my center physically and emotionally.
Good that you are still having those realizations. Try not to lose momentum. Keep learning about yourself.
I guess i am more angry with myself when i look back to see how badly i compromised myself over the years. If i knew what i was doing wrong, i could tried to help both of us.
Totally understand, MK. But, of course, looking back and being angry at ourselves for how we were is proof we've learned something....it's a good sign, right?
SF, SL, Thanks for dropping by. Yea now that i am actually analyzing my wife and seeing all the 'new' stuff, I feel weird. I also feel shocked as to why i did not do this before
Oh well better late than never.
It has been a loong time since i posted here. Work getting busy and i am preparing for my crazy exam this friday... I feel like i am back in school
Need some advice BITS.
Last time we had some breakthrough was in august when wife asked if we should meet under the guidance of a counselor to see if we can reconnect. I told her i needed time to think. I did not get back to her on that issue. This weekend we were talking about daughter and she bought up some money issue saying if i could start paying the full agreed amount of child support payment. I said no problem as it would be the amount i would pay anyway if the D went through. Then she brings up another topic of paying into deaughter's 529 plan that we opened last year. I named my wife as the sole beneficiary for that account(had no clue that the D was coming at that time). Now i was planning on starting my own for my daughter. So i told her
"wife i have no idea as to where our situation is right now. My lawyer asks me on the status and i dont know what the status is. What are you planning on doing?"
W : "regarding what?"
M : "Regarding the divorce"
W : "Last time i talked to you about the counselor. You said you will think and get back"
M : " Yea i got busy with exam. I'll visit it this weekend."
W : " Why did you ask if we should get back?"
M : "Thats because i always give everything one last chance"
W : "So i suggested in regards to it to talk under a counselor. We are too angry to talk to each other right now without the counselor. Who knows we might NOT click even with the counselor. I am not sure myself."
M : "Okay. Let me finish with the exam. Then i'll try to get a counselor. let us see. I hate to see daughter grow up without a dad"
W : "me too"
I have lot of questions on this.
1: One part of me feels i am doing right thing. Other says wife still is acting like she is doing me favor here. That this is no good. So i have decided to go with the counsellor for some sessions. See how she behaves. If i dont see anything that i like anymore, I am planning on asking my lawyer to proceed ahead. Any feedback?
2: We still share the same back with different accounts. Yesterday wife moved some money from one of my account to another account of mine (both my accounts). Then she emails me about it. I was upset. Right after filing for divorce she immediately removed my name from our savings as she was the primary account holder. At that time i just let it go. But on this situation i am really upset that she thinks that she can mess with my accounts. I am thinking of telling her politely to NOT touch any of my accounts even if she has access to them.
3: In January wife came one day andtook everything that every belonged to our daughter. When i say everything, it was everything. Only things left behind were dresses that my mom gave for my daughter. Later on she found out that her parents home would not accommodate all our daughter's stuff. So she gave away or sold most of them. There are lot of toys i bought for my daughter and i recently found out that those toys were among them. I want to vent here as it really burns me up with rage. I have an empty house here that just 9 months ago was filled with my daughter's toys. My wife could have just let me know and i would taken back my daughter's stuff so she can have some stuff when she came to my place. It upsets me so much to see how much this woman has destroyed my trust in her. I trusted her blindly all these years and never in my dreams would i think she would pull this stunt of hers. Right now my trust in her is slowly eroding away and honestly i dont want to be with her. The only string that is still keeping is my daughter. I dont want to see my baby grow up without a dad.
My question is should i bring up these topics with the counselor and talk about them with her in room so i can get some closure. Or do i just bury them and try to forget them.
I am ready for lot of 2x4's. And i have to acknowledge.
1: I know there are lot of you who would give anything to be in a situation where i am. I know i used to hope the same when i read other sitches. But now i feel "is this even worth it now". I'll always live with the fear that my wife might again pull on more stunt like this on me. I dont think i can take one more.
2: Compared to other sitches here, my sitch is very mild. I have to be thankful to god for that.
Help!
First, I don't see a problem with a shot at counseling... why not...? Could it hurt? Maybe... take it slow...
This is my opinion regarding the bank... can she withdraw or transfer money out of your account? If so, then maybe open a new account and put at the very least 50% of the money in an account she cannot touch...
Thanks KD.
Yup, my thoughts too were to give MC a shot. This time i am not gonna be passive. I know what i want addressed. So it should be productive for me in the least.
The banks. Yea my main bank is changed. I just keep some extra cash in this bank. We did have an implict agreement that though we can see each others accounts when we log in, we would not be snooping around or messing with each other's accounts. It was that way until yesterday. I wonder if wife was emboldened by the fact that i adid agree to the MC thingy. What upsets me is not that she touched the money. It is the fact that right i feel like i am back in the old game where i play by her rules. Before i did not care. Now i do.
hang on and back the truck up... just a bit...
Again, this is JUST MY OPINION... maybe... say NOTHING to your W about the account... who knows... could just be a "test" to get a reaction from her... be wary of any comment you might make about it...
I would only address it if she eventually brought it up... then I would say something like, "Yeah, I noticed that money got moved..." and leave it at that... but that's just me suggesting words that I've never had to say...
Now as far as handshake agreements go (with people you are struggling with trust)... just ask Val how it can happen when you give people too much authority when they aren't quite ready for it... regarding money...
who knows... could just be a "test" to get a reaction from her... be wary of any comment you might make about it...
You know, i never thought of it that way...hmm...
But even if it is a test, why i am try to prove myself to her
I dont want to sound cocky, but I am a recovering doormat. I am so scared of falling back into my old habits of not speaking up and hurting inside. I feel i'd rather bring it up in a civil way. If she takes it offensively and picks on it, I'll know then that i am not ready for her drama yet.
Right now it is not just about her coming back. I too need to figure out if i really want her back in my life
Yea, should have known about the handshakes. Yup, it way my fault.
Well... then in all fairness my friend... do what you gotta do...
I suspect at your point in the training... there's no right nor wrong... you know the drill... your actions, your consequences...
I am so proud of you Karma!!!
You are doing this SO right.
You are thinking it through. Doing what is best for you. Deciding what YOU really want. And all not from a place of fear. But a place of peace.
Bravo!!!
And I tell you. The fact that you did not *jump* at her suggestion is HUGE. She see's it man. THE change. Its BIG.
Whatever you decide, you are giving yourself the best chance at success. Either with her or without her.
Peace my friend.
MK, I am glad you posted. I was looking for your thread today and could not find it.
So i have decided to go with the counsellor for some sessions. See how she behaves. If i dont see anything that i like anymore, I am planning on asking my lawyer to proceed ahead. Any feedback?
IMO go to the C sessions and evaluate what you want to do. Do not set a timeline in haste, and put more emphasis on her actions and the C’s advice than what is spoken. Try and find a solution based C I do not have DR here or I’d look up the pages in it where this is mentioned. Speak with several before settling on one….
Leave her out of the pick the C process? She needs to trust the C to open up and begin to build solutions also, else it is wasted time. IMO include her after you’ve narrowed the field, your call.
We still share the same back with different accounts.
Yea, we still do too. My L advised me not to close the accounts. I have forty seven dollars at risk here. It sounds as though you are keeping your risk minimized also. So she rattled the cage. Try and act nonchalant “as if” about it. If she is anything like my STBX she poked the bear and is watching for the reaction. Don’t give her the satisfaction.
Child Support – Yes. I agree fund your own college fund for her.
In January wife came one day andtook everything that every belonged to our daughter.
OK, so this just chaps my backside. It is just wrong. You’ve got to handle this right. Calmly with integrity and honor don’t lose your cool about it during a C session, and don’t itch to bring it up.
The loss of trust this caused is probably the main issue all can agree upon. Let the C lead. If you need to, discuss these kinds of things in a private session. You’ll likely have at least one.
I'll always live with the fear that my wife might again pull on more stunt like this on me.
No you won’t, not always, you’ll either rebuild the trust a married couple has or you will not.
If not you’ll still be your daughters Dad! Never forget that!
You’ve come a long way. You’ve done most of the heavy lifting however this turns out you are a better person.
Do not sell yourself cheaply. People generally value more those things they have to work hard to obtain.
KD, CS, JS : Nice to hear from you guys!!
Thanks for all your suggestions. \
In_Shock, thanks for stopping by.
When i talked to daughter yesterday, i did mention to wife that she could tell me if she wanted any transfers from 'my' accounts. She started apologizing saying she did not know why she did it etc. Yea i know that from her
That does not mean she is sorry. She's upset. But either way I was glad that i did not remain mute on it.
I think in my case the only way i can re-connect with my wife and hope to have a long marriage is if i can keep my 'manhood' so to speak, but in a mature way. I am slowly learning it and it does feel empowering.
But yea, unless something really bad happens...i tending more toward getting back with her. But i am in no hurry. I am gonna wait until she finds herself.
Journaling...
Well i did hear some sobering news from my lawyer yesterday. I told her about the counseling thingy. While she said that it was good, she also cautioned that my wife could use our convo against me.
8 months ago, i would have scoffed that my wife would not do that. But then i was also caught blind sighted when i found that she took my diary i wrote about my depression to use it in court if needed to get sole custody of daughter. Now i am worried if all this some crazy routine for her to use our convo against me. Wow, my trust in her is totally gone...
Maybe i should just watch what i say during counseling. But then, what is the use of counseling if we cannot put all our cards on the table???
This is nuts!!
Be like a smooth moving river. On the surface so calm, but underneath so strong and powerful. Do not take your "recovering doormat" to the opposite extreme, like an angry child. In some ways it takes more strength to forgive someone their own weaknesses, than to hold on to anger.
The only question you really need to answer is: is this the one I want to be with? The mother of your child is one important factor to weigh against any grass that appears greener on the other side of the fence.
With regards to the bank accounts, either give her access or do not. Do not give her access and then be angry when she uses it. Don't put a bloody piece of meat in front of a lion, then get mad when it takes a bite.
Counseling is a chance for your W to learn you are not the man she thought you were. You do not want to "put all your cards on the table" in marriage counseling anyway. You DB her in there and you may as well DB the counseler also! If you need to get it all out, do some individual counseling.
Now as far as handshake agreements go (with people you are struggling with trust)... just ask Val how it can happen when you give people too much authority when they aren't quite ready for it... regarding money...
(Karma - My wife and I had an handshake agreement, she broke it and took out money w/o telling me after 3 months separated. I froze the account without even telling her. It got very ugly for about a month)
Funny thing about that KD - my w actually brought that up in mediation on Tuesday.
This time the reason she took out the money was because she couldn't afford the dentist because she covers my health insurance. But the new iphone and a trip to Chicago.. those weren't reasons at all.
She will see what she wants to see.
Just goes to show that WAW can come up with ANY reason to justify their actions.. and that is why they can't really be trusted.
FWIW - I am so thankful I did it. Am I nervous about 90% of my assets being frozen.. of course, but better frozen than gone.
Now I only worry about the expiration date on the check vs if my w has come up with another "reason" to take out money.
Trying to quote for relevance and brevity:
(Karma - My wife and I had an handshake agreement, she broke it and took out money w/o telling me after 3 months separated. I froze the account without even telling her. It got very ugly for about a month)
Just goes to show that WAW can come up with ANY reason to justify their actions.. and that is why they can't really be trusted.
And, it's not just money... I just got an angry email from my W regarding visits with the kids... Unfortunately, I have to be careful balancing budget with visits, so told my W I was going to have to skip a couple visits...
My W resonds with venom, telling me how much the kids miss me... and I'm thinking... that didn't seem to be an issue when W scheduled the kids for about 15 days total over the summer holidays with me...
In the mind of a WAS/MLCer... there will always be a good and just reason...
SF, Valeska, KD : Thanks for stopping by. Sorry did not reply sooner. I took a break for a weak to spend some time just vegetating
SF, very valid points on the bank accounts and the counseling.
Journaling....
So the week before last was my exam. Glad i am done with. Did not do so great. Well, i only prepared for it a month before. what did i expect
That saturday, i visited my daughter. We had fun time. Went to home depot and some a kids project. We built a helicopter. Then daughter remarked on how my helicopter was bigger (My R/c helicopters). Sometimes i am so surprised on how much little kids remember. Then again she remarks on how we could play when she comes visiting me. Bittersweet memories.
Just that in the morning when i was talking to my dad he told me he heard some bad stuff being talked about me back home. My Wife's grandparents and my Dad are from the same town. So his family heard some rumors that my wife filed for divorce because i was... impotent. This was the most craziest stuff i have heard. Yup we waited 7 years to have our daughter out of choice. And yup, our sex life was shot because our relationship was going down the drain. I guess the bigger problem was that for me, i lost my mojo as our emotional distance increased. It was a vicious circle.
Not something i wanted to hear on my way to visit wife and see my daughter. But i wanted to ask her about it.
So in the evening after daughter and i said our bye-byes i asked wife as to where she is in terms on Divorce situation. That was the lead that led to about 3 hours worth of talking. Mostly civil talk, we sat outside a Starbucks and chatted. For the first time in my life i was not freaking out inside on the fear of hurting my wife or angering her. I was calm, okay with any kind of eventuality. I was trying to analyzing her. Funny, i never did this in all our 11 years. Some things i felt were.
1: She seems to be more upset with her parents now that they are not supporting her in her cause. She is upset on what her life might turn out to be.
2: She is not so upset that we are broken as a family. Just that her life is harder now. She talked about how if we do get back, it will just be the 3 of us and that she will let my parents have a relationship with daughter.
3: I told her that if we do get back that status quo must change. That we should start by the families stopping the crazy no-contact and that she should talk to my family. She got angry saying that i was back again with my same old craziness. The way i look at it. I was okay when she was not talking to my folks. But i drove me nuts inside and destroyed me emotionally. How can i go back to the same stuff. But then she says that over time she will start talking. The way i see, it is the same boat as we were in December
4: At one point she mentioned on how nice it would be if we were living in the same apartment complex but different units so that we could easily ferry daughter between us. That told me that she is not actually interested in getting back. That right now she is having lot of pressure (real world, family) and so she is just reacting to it. He reasons to work on the marriage are wrong.
5: I did ask her on rumors on the impotent thingy. She first denied it. Then she said she did know if a family member was spreading the news. Then she said that she could understand how i felt. I told her that i was not looking for sympathy. That i wanted her to know that i was upset by slandering of my name.
6: We did rehash some history that again just got painful. I guess now i can see why she wanted to talk about this with a counselor. I told her that i'd look for one. Again she told me very clearly that she might not come back just because we go counseling.
Our talks were all over the place. I did my best to show her i cared less if she did not come back. I was not a jerk, but i did not sound needy either.
I spent a lot of last week thinking if it was even worth it for counseling. The more i hear from her and see her attitude, i don't want to be with her anymore. But the moment the thought of my daughter gets in, i melt. I want to do anything to be with my daughter. But my fear is that i dont see any positive changes in wife. And worst of all, with more convo's i had with wife on sunday and monday, i felt like i was being manipulated.
One question i did ask her was as to why when i called my wife and told her that my grandfather died: That 2 hours later she calls me up and tells me that she filed. That why it could not have waited for the next day. She had an answer. She told me that she was tired of waiting for right moments and that she just wanted to get that info out to me. I was hoping that she would in the least tell me that perhaps it was not the right time she told me that. But i saw no remorse.
Another question i asked was as to why she sought sole custody of daughter when she talked the stuff about being fair and knowing very well that i initially started off by not using a lawyer. She told me this "Husband when you go to fight, you will always use all the armaments you have with you. You just dont use less". This truly shocked me i guess. My wife was the person who i thought i could share the most deepest thoughts. She knew me in and out because i kept no secrets from her. And even after she filed i went initially without a lawyer because i truly believed that she would not take advantage of me. I was totally wrong. To her i was just a game where she had to win. So she attacked with all that she had. I am sure she knew that i might just let-in like i usually do. But i guess this time i fought back. So is this person a spouse?? Hell i would not even prefer to be friends with such a person.
I don't want to sound self-righteous because i know i too have many flaws. It is just that i feel my personality is just too mellow for her type. I dunno, maybe i am wrong. Maybe i am getting cocky now i am learning to stand by myself.
I guess that is why i'll still go to the counseling with her. Maybe i'll know from the counselor if i am expecting the moon from my wife....
I guess that is why i'll still go to the counseling with her. Maybe i'll know from the counselor if i am expecting the moon from my wife....
You're merely setting boundaries. But - I might be stating the obvious here - always keep in mind that we have boundaries when we're single or DB/DRing, and boundaries when we're in a relationship. Moreover, both you and your wife (especially) still carry a certain level of resentment. It's up to her to either keep that in check and/or eradicate it altogether. Give yourself time and reasonable space; you're still mending (?) on shattered glass here, so things can and will still be painful and sensitive.
Journaling....
I find my updates becoming less frequent. Part of the growing process i guess. But i also find myself sinking again into depression. Fell off the wagon on my exercise. Need to get my life back again...
I wonder if all my dull feeling of last week was a harbinger of things to come. Just heard from my dad that my Aunt passed away. It has been less than a year that my grandfather passed away. She was his primary caregiver.
Feeling a little numb and guilty. Guilty because I am not overcome with this sudden emotional loss that i should have felt after learning about death. She was such a nice woman. She was the thread that keeps my dad's side of the family together. I knew my mom's side more than my dad's side. I only came to know her better a decade ago. And liked her more after knowing her more. So why dont i feel this loss?? I know for a fact that if my mom's sister passed away (my other aunt), I would have lost it...
Numb because i never took time to get to know my own family. I was so caught up living life and struggling with just being able to live harmoniously with my wife that i let all relationships with my family take a backseat. It was easier as they were also 6000 miles away.
Sometimes i wonder if all this is worth it...staying so far away from your loved ones. But i do have a loved one now. My daughter. And i love her more than anyone else. So how do i weigh the choices?, staying close to my family but far from my daughter or vice versa. It is hard.
Our lives are so fragile. One tiny bump by fate and we are gone for ever. Yet our ego is so strong we succumb ourselves to its machinations...
Okay, stopping before i ramble too much.
Sorry, Karma...my condolences to you and your family. What you're feeling, from what I can tell, is pretty normal. You're grieving, and feeling guilty and all is alright.
Just remember to take care of yourself and don't let these emotions hinder your recovery and your dealings with your wife.
Curious, what did you mean by falling off the wagon on your exercise?
KD, ”Need to get my life back again...”
So how will you go about doing that? Don’t tell us, get up and do it, then tell us. Small steps.
Alamo is right, it certainly sounds as though you are grieving and that is perfectly normal. We need to feel these emotions to process them. We need to process them and move forward.
Stagnating, wallowing, pining only serves to drag us down. When we permit this to happen we slowly die. You are too d@mm good to allow that to happen.
Put together an action plan, execute a few steps of it and post back here. You’ve done this before and from farther down the abyss than where you are now.
Borrowing from 2Step.
You are standing in the door. Don’t look down. The ground will come!
I think we numb ourselves to ease our own pain, its a survival technique, a new threshold to pain. but since we cant do it only on specific aspects of our lives, it tends to numb everything around it too. so when we have a loss like you did, its hard to feel it correctly.
i think what you're feeling, the lack of feeling, is normal considering the circumstances.
while i can be very analytic about feelings and emotions, I have an overall numbness to them, yet i'll tear up during commercials.
Thanks Y'all for stopping by. I really appreciate it.
I too put much effort into making my marriage work, changing my life to suit his, I lost a lot on the way.
So true...
wow, it's been a really loooong time i posted here.
I thought i'd take a break.
BITs, need some help and feedback...
Last time in my sitch wife suggested we see a counselor. I said yes and started to look for one in my town. Then she changed her mind and said no it it. I tried to convince her that it might help us if we visit a counselor. Then she suggested that i see the counselor in her town to which i agreed. Then she changed her mind again and said that she did not want to see one.
So at this time we are in a limbo. She paused the divorce because of her family pressure. But apparently she is terrified to come back. She also told me that she does not want to move back to our town or the house.
I have managed to open some communication lines with her parents. So my MIL calls up today suggesting me to tell my wife that i would plan on moving to her hometown. MIL thinks that way wife can keep her job and daughter can continue to go to the school she is now.
That basically means uprooting myself from a job that pays 3 times as much, selling the house and letting go of all the friends that i made in this town. All because wife feels that our old friends will judge her.
Sad part is that i am even ready for that. Except that wife did not even tell me this. She is too scared to think of all this apparently. She still continues to feel like a victim.
I feel that if i move to wife's hometown, then i might lose respect for myself. Thats because wife has shown 0 interest in making the relationship work.
But then again i feel this urge to make this one final sacrifice on behalf of my relationship.
I'd love to hear your take on this. Thanks!
MK - I was going to say unequivocally "no", don't move until I read this:
But then again i feel this urge to make this one final sacrifice on behalf of my relationship.
How strong is this urge?
You have to decide what's right for YOU. If you can make the move without losing your self respect, maybe you could consider it. But there's a lot of questions. Would there any committment whatsoever from your W to work on the M? What if you moved back and she still showed zero interest in working on the M? Does your W even want you to move? Or is just your MIL? If it were me, I think there would need to be a long, long talk with your W and some strong committment to work on the M before I would even consider it. Just MVHO.
MK, think about these statements:
I feel that if i move to wife's hometown, then i might lose respect for myself.
Will you? What drives that thought?
Thats because wife has shown 0 interest in making the relationship work.
We all like validation. Self respect comes from within and does not need validation. It is based on how you feel about your actions and how those actions fit within your core values.
Have you defined your core values?
But then again i feel this urge to make this one final sacrifice on behalf of my relationship.
If sacrifice accurately describes how you view this action think long and carefully about it. Weigh the potential risks against the potential gains.
Do you have expectations here?
How easily are you hurt if expectations are not met?
How does taking this action improve your situation? Work to your strengths. Use them to improve your situation. Let go of your expectations and execute actions that affirm who and what you are at your core.
Jbnati, JS : Thanks so much for chiming back.
Everytime i interact with my wife i see for any signs that might tell me that she would love to get back. I see some of them i have to admit. But at the same time, she feels that she is so entitled to feel like i have wronged her and so it is my duty to go begging back.
As a person i did not even know that i never had respect for myself until wife left. Now i realize what and who i am. And yes, there is 0 indication from wife that she would work on the marriage if i moved back. This is all MIL (or it could be my wife telling my MIL to convey these to me). Honestly i have come to really dislike her victimhood attitude. I guess i am waiting for her to talk directly to me and express herself, which she has not done.
I guess for now i'll let status quo stay and just work on myself.
Tell your MIL that as much as you'd like to, you can't because of the reasons you specified. Reiterate the fact that you love and miss your son very much and would like to reconcile with your W, but she's got alot of junk to go through personally.
If you move and it doesn't "snap" her out of her funk, you will be left with nothing. That's not a good example for your son.
Hello Karma,
I must say that Bond is right on this.
Here is the thing....
You can sacrifice a lot, you can make concessions, hell you can even move if you think it would lend to reconciliation, problem is that right now all you have is a hope and a dream oh an a MIL feeding you what could or could not be accurate information.
Do you have expectations? People ask this all the time but there is NO ONE on this website that does not have some sort of expectation; if you didn’t you would not be here would you?
So you have zero indication from you W that she would like to work on the marriage but yet you would consider moving 400 miles (I believe that is the right distance right?), quit a good paying job, sell your house on the hopes that you would win back your wife, but at what expense?
Your W would like to get counseling…..wait she changed her mind……wait she wants to go to counseling again…….get the point?
There is a certain level of work you have to do and a certain level of work she will have to do and at this point I see her doing none of it.
I remember when you first came here you doubted everything about yourself, like most of us, you berated yourself for the breakdown of your marriage but slowly the blinders where lifted and you started to see more clearly. Good for you!
As you see more clearly you realize that while you certainly had your shortcomings your W did not walk away from this with clean hands.
In order for any reconciliation to work BOTH parties have to be on board and BOTH parties have to be willing to do the hard work.
From where I sit you lose everything and could walk away empty handed anyways. I don’t see the value in that or how that becomes a benefit for you R in the long run.
Am I saying not to move?
No.
But I don’t see how moving right now based on the information you have makes any sense.
gabbysmom : Thanks for the feedback. Yea it is that lack of any info from her that is troubling me. I told my MIL that i might try to invite her on a date instead and then we can try to start fresh. But MIL said that one of us have to give in. Right now i feel like MIL is try to push me into doing something that i will surely come to regret later. The worse part is that i am just getting started to apply to university here for phd. And it is the best in TX. Yea i really need to think thorugh this.
Mr. Bond: I really appreciate your straight to the point talk. Yup, actually that is what i told MIL today. But now i am having this nagging feeling that i might have ended up disappointing her. I really have to rid myself of these things.
2Step: So great to hear from you man. Hope everything is going good for you!
I think you really hit on the points.
If i know that my wife is ready to work with me and make even one sincere step, I am ready to give all these up and move to work. There is no such thing. Our convos revolve our daughter and wife telling me her stories of her life there with her family. She seems genuinely happy with herself there.
Yes the moment MIL suggested this and said that one has gotta give, I did feel upset. We have a beautiful home and i have a great job where i can take care of both of them comfortably. While i understand that she has burnt some bridges I'll be there to protect her unlike before. But she has to reach out to me.
I have a very bad feeling that wife is trying to blame this on me. Apparently she told my MIL that she wants to work on the marriage, but knows that i'll never move back. This feels like manipulation. MIL tells me that wife is scared. How can i work on a broken marriage if my spouse is scared?? It will not change just because i move back to her town.
But i am planning on doing this: Write a heartfelt email to wife, again accpeting my role in this whole mess. Then also write that if she wants to try to get to know the new me. If yes, we can try dating to see if we jive. No strings attached. I guess can slowly see where that goes. That way hopefully i might be able to ally here fears. Hopefully she will see and like the new me. And maybe i can now learn more about my wife.
The way i see it: She's fallen down in the dark and unable to see anything in front of her. Me on the other hand with some confidence can see us getting out of this. So i'll extend my hand and see if she takes it. If she does, I'll make sure we get out of this stronger. If not, I'll just have to accept that some people just love to live in their misery and no matter how much you try, they are too caught up in their own BS that do not want to get out.
Thanks Gabbysmom:
Yea you are right. I really had a very bad feeling that i was going back to a place i did not want to go.
The whole idea of again emailing my wife again trying to act strong was useless. She knows very well that i am waiting. I guess it is up to her now.
Thanks y'all for all the support.
Now is not the time to give up "a job that pays 3 times as much" in my humble opinion.
As shallow as this sounds, your financial success is a contributing factor to your worth and attractiveness as a husband and provider.
I believe in honoring the vows, but not at all costs.
1000% Agree
Thanks Y'all for the feedback!!
What a week/month it has been. Quite a rollercoaster for my emotions.
For the past month or two it has been a bit of downer. Especially that i fell off my gym wagon and gained some weight back. Now i know how much 'feeling good about yourself' helps you emotionally. I just keep giving excuses everyday to go to the gym....
A part of my funk also has been all the flip flopping wife has been doing and lack of any momemtum in our sitch. And i guess the impending holidays
4 months back wife suggested us going to see a counselor to see if can be helped. Even though i had my doubts, i said yes to it. Started my search on finding a counselor. Then wife changed her mind. But i was able to convince her that if not anything we should try once to talk to counselor. She agreed. In october she changed her mind that she wanted me to come to her town to see a counselor. To which i said 'yes'. I told her that I am willing to make sacrifices if it meant saving my R with her. Just that evening she calls and up says that she does not want to do any counseling at all. I did not know what to think anymore...
My MIL then calls up and suggests that if i move back to wife's city then wife might change her mind. This is one thing that i was really not willing. Though i honestly entertained the thought in my mind. But at the end i felt that i would lose respect for myself if i did it.
Wife today calls me up for small talk. She has been trying to get her temp job permanent and seems like she got it. I told her that i was happy and congratulated her. We talked about stuff relating to daughter. I am bringing her to stay with me for thanksgiving. Then somehow we wandered into R talk. I told her "Wife, I am trying in every way to reach down and grab your hand to pull you out of pit of sorrow you are in so that we can walk and work together as partners. I am ready to be there next you as man. But somehow you chose to be in that pit. At this time i have nothing more left in me". Yea sounded like a movie line. But that's how i felt. Next thing i know wife is again asking me to look for a counselor in her city so we can figure this thing out.
Wow!!! what a ride! I don't need Six-Flags at all !
Then somehow we wandered into R talk. I told her "Wife, I am trying in every way to reach down and grab your hand to pull you out of pit of sorrow you are in so that we can walk and work together as partners. I am ready to be there next you as man. But somehow you chose to be in that pit. At this time i have nothing more left in me". Yea sounded like a movie line. But that's how i felt. Next thing i know wife is again asking me to look for a counselor in her city so we can figure this thing out.
Wow!!! what a ride! I don't need Six-Flags at all !
Notice how she responds to assertive karma, and not placating karma? The rollercoaster is you.
I told her "Wife, I am trying in every way to reach down and grab your hand to pull you out of pit of sorrow you are in so that we can walk and work together as partners. I am ready to be there next you as man. But somehow you chose to be in that pit. At this time i have nothing more left in me". Yea sounded like a movie line. But that's how i felt. Next thing i know wife is again asking me to look for a counselor in her city so we can figure this thing out.
Good job, MK. Very nicely done. I think a lot of us could say that to our Ws in our own sitches and mean every word. I agree with SF - she is responding differently to the 180, and in a positive way. No question she's conflicted, the way she's flip-flopping on the whole C thing.
Wow, took quite a break from the forums.
Work got busy and as usual i dove deep into my hobbies.
Slacked off on gym....i really need to cut down on time i spend with my model trains, rc cars and airplanes
My sitch: No traction. same old same old. My bad days are fewer now. But i guess thats also because the D seems to be on hold.
Couple of things to cheer me up: Daughter visited over thanksgiving and we had a blast. Redo for christmas and now for a week. Really looking forward to it. Also visiting my family overseas in Feb. Really looking forward to it. For my last visit in Jan is when my wife threw the bomb and my whole trip turned into one big depression episode. Now i am actually looking to enjoy my time.
Dont want to be judgmental, but my wife's attitude is the same. She is still the poor victim. Ironically she called me up this monday and had a crying episode. Apparently she had been fighting with her parents too. She feels that everyone is out to judge her. I feel bad for her. I calmed her down and even gave her few tips on how to look at things to make them more manageable. Ironical because usually its me who's lost.
I just try no to think too much about the future at all. Just live for tomorrow.
mykarma- Model airplanes is a hobby of mine too. I haven't been able to partake because I haven't been set up (a move, a deployment, then-faince moving in, second deployment, getting married, third deployment - a surprise) but as part of 'getting a life' it's something I'm looking forward to getting back into. I had a model train set up when I was a kid, and still get the magazine, and it's beens something I've been looking forward to restarting once I know I'm done moving for a while!!
Good to hear from you, Karma! Although any GAL is good GAL, yeah... socializing rather than holing up is sometimes a great idea...
It is sad your W still plays victim... She could just be saying that, to you... but if she really does still feel victim, she'll walk away from this with no growth value...
Unfortunately, there's very little you can do to support her in that...
Glad to see you around Myk. Thanks for stopping by my thread.
You have grown tremendously. Be proud and be well. Enjoy your D for the Christmas holiday and may the new year bring you infinite peace and joy.
PS Good to see you around too KD. Hope you are well.
Just live for tomorrowtoday.
Fixed
Merry Christmas guys!
Good to hear from you MK! Thanks for stopping by my thread.
It is sad your W continues to stay in the same place, especially after how much you've grown. It makes it kind of hard to want them to come back if they're not going to change or grow.
Fist: so sorry for all my BITs for not having responded
Second: Happy new year 2012 Y'all. Hoping this year brings you the happiness and peace you deserve.
Thanks for all your feeback guys. I really appreciate it.
Kolja, hey nice to hear to hear you are into planes. I found out that i love building stuff than playing with them. I have 2 plane projects that i am still embellishing and have not yet flown even one. A new bug now is R/C boats. They are great!
Now that all the holiday season is over, i'll try to be more regular here.
Reason for my absence was that my daughter was visiting me for almost 10 days !!!
Yay. I was great fun this. We spent most of the time indoors, playing, watching movies and doing play projects. It was awesome. I never felt more of a dad than this time. I guess it was because she fell sick and i had to take care of her. Wife said that she could come over, but i told her that i could manage myself. I too caught my daughter's bug and fell sick. But i am proud that i could manage her single handed during this time.
On to my sitch a bit. I dunno i guess something happened. Not yet sure how to take it though.
On the day i was dropping off daughter to my wife's place, i get a call from her. Wife tells me that she has decided that she's in it for the long run. I did not know how to process that. I told her we could talk at length when i see her.
Dropped of daughter and wife and i went to coffee shop to talk. In-laws were babysitting daughter during that time. My SIL was there and i just acknowledged her. I was in no mood to talk to her. It is hard to categorize how the convo went.
It has been a year now that my wife fired the bomb. I have grown quite a bit emotionally during this time. And just like how people indicated, i have come to relish the strange sense of freedom. Freedom from being scared all the time, from being depressed all the time. Freedom from worries on where my R with wife was going. But somehow that day, all those feelings came rushing back. But i kept an open mind and kept a lid on my fears. This time in the convo though, i tried to analyze my wife. See if she has changed any from my perspective.
Sadly i felt that she did not. She kept saying that she knew how i was suffering. But she always kept coming back to the point on how much i made her suffer. I acknowledged my mistakes. But she still felt that she was being punished by everyone for having taken the decision. One of the things that really troubled me was that she felt that she was doing me a favor by providing me good access to daughter. Yes, since my daughter is still young, wife has to make her talk to me sometimes when we video conference. But i also felt that it was a right as a dad. Mybe, maybe not. What troubled me was that she had excuses for everything. everything.
We later migrated from coffee house to a restaurant for lunch. It was the first in a year. I felt good that she was receptive for the lunch offer.
We talked about some serious stuff, some mundane stuff. But i got from our talk was that she somehow feels that everyone in her family and mine think that i was a good guy and that she is not. I am not sure what to say there. I did not go and force my in-law's minds there. They have seen me, my actions and have come to that conclusion. She then got upset that i never portrayed her in a good light to my family. Ironically during the 10 years of our marriage, i never once talked bad about my wife to my family. Never until she filed. But i've also learned that these are her feelings and i cannot deny them. I acknowledged them.
We talked about lot of things. we ended the convo saying that we should try to get to counseling soon.
This was on dec-31st. I drove back, and tried calling wife at 12am to wish her happy new year. No one picked up, so i left a voice mail. Looks like she had been to a party.
She called the next day. we talked a bit. Then over the next 2 days we had lengthy conversations again. This time, we did argue some. The main reason was because wife felt that i was somehow still on the fence. I told her while i was elated that we have possibility together, that i was scared a bit. But that i am working to overcome those negative feelings. She then gets upset saying that this is how i was the whole time, always about me and never about the family. At that point, it was like Deja-Vu. The same fears i felt during our old fights. I just wanted to get away from the phone. It seemed like the past was repeating. It was a horrible feeling. We somehow ended the convo, me telling her that she cannot deny what i feel and that perhaps we should try talking about non-R stuff.
There have been other developments over last week. some pleasant. Some not. I am trying not to over analyze each of them.
But the general feeling is that of apprehension. I definitely dont want to get back with her if she has not changed her attitude. But sometimes i am so desperate to have my family back i am willing to overlook that issue.
But at this time, i have tasted the freedom. Freedom from being constantly worrying about my R with my wife. And i love that freedom. I'll go with my wife to counselor first, and then take it from there.
I love planes my self. Have many but since my sitch this summer I have damaged all of them and crashed one last Monday. Can't concentrate but going to the club and hanging out really helps clear the mind.
This convo with my wife just hit me. So i thought i'd just add it here. When wife called up on 31st and said that she would be in 'it' for the long haul, i wanted to know why she decided. So i asked her when we met.
She said that when she filed and decided to leave me, she had convinced herself that the reason she was leaving was because i was not being a proper 'dad' to daughter. I guess the reason she gave herself was that i was depressed always. Oddly i did not look at it that way. Lot of factors contributed to her wanting out. Honestly i never thought that me not being emotionally available to my 2 year old daughter was a big factor. But i just took that on face value. So apparently that's why she left. Now she sees me how i visit to see my daughter every month, do video calls everyday and see how much fun she is having when she is with me and apparently wife began to question her reasons for leaving. That is why she thought that we should work it out for our daughter.
Good reasoning. The reason i put it here is because i recalled what 25 told me during my early days of misery. To be the best dad you can be and that women do find that attractive. Not that i was faking any of the stuff my daughter. I always wanted to do all the activities with my daughter. Only difference was that this time, i was 'in the moment' and never let other stuff about my life, out sitch bother me. I also helped me grow and become stronger.
hobbies and friends. Best medicine for a broken heart
" Not that i was faking any of the stuff my daughter. I always wanted to do all the activities with my daughter. Only difference was that this time, i was 'in the moment' and never let other stuff about my life, out sitch bother me. I also helped me grow and become stronger."
Really good example of your growth and change! Keep it going, Karma!
and speed don't forget speed. got one that has been clocked at 130mph.