I figured since this process takes an enormous amount of patience and I love me some old school rock’n roll, we’ll cruise to some Foghat. Here are the links to my previous threads…..
WAW on the Peninsula Faith makes things possible..not easy Update…….
Well here I am going on month 6th since the bomb and things are positive between my W and I. We are completely in friendship mode right now. The D is still on schedule to be finalized on September 25th.
Since the W moved on March 25th, I have been single dad with the help of my mom. I have been tearing it up in the dad department. I try to keep the kids so busy enjoying life (riding bikes, movies, baseball games, park, etc) that they don’t have time to worry about anything else. They have helped me tremendously to get me to where I am at as far as detaching. Most of my time and focus is completely on them. There isn’t much time left for myself or time to dwell on my sitch. Don’t get me wrong, my W crosses my mind often.
One of my W’s complaints was that I was an absent father. Now she has taken notice…..she has gone as far as sending me a TM saying that our kids have an amazing father this past Saturday. I did plan the entire day as a daddy/daughter date day for her upcoming birthday. Took D7 to get her hair and nails done, then to eat crab on Pier 39 and then finished at the Broadway musical Cats (I didn’t fall asleep like I did several years ago). W didn’t miss the opportunity to remind me as she was in constant contact this day.
W: You guys have had a great day…..
Don’t fall asleep Dad!! Lol
M: That was a different guy from this one.
This is the new mature, wide awake, Cats watching dad.
W: Good answer!!!
There were probably 40 TMs between W and I as she was excited for our D7.
W admitted that she was jealous that I was taking D7 to get her nails done. She said she hasn’t even done that. That wasn’t my intent though. My intent was to make D7 day a memorable one and she made it all worth it at dinner when she looked up at me and said, “Thanks dad” with her sweet little face. That was an emotional moment for me.
My kids are doing quite well as of right now. My D7 is in her school talent show tomorrow, S5 has an end of school year lunch on Friday, D7 has party for her 8th birthday on Saturday and then Lake Tahoe with some friends next weekend.
Another positive thing of note, W pretty much keeps me posted on her plans, even though I do not ask. I really don’t know the reason why she does it. There are a couple of reasons I can guess, but I really don’t know. I do appreciate it though.
As for the EAs she has had, the first one has been over since the beginning of January and the second one hasn’t been brought up since the end of February. I have no idea if anything has happened there.
Obviously I have no idea where the road will lead, but this whole thing has made me reflect on the things that I needed to improve on myself. Life has a way of humbling you. I have been humbled and I needed it.
I admit that I was complacent and just going through the motions before the bomb. My priorities were screwed up. Regretfully, my W did not come first. I was killing myself at work and leaving no energy for my family. I suckedd at taking care of what should have been my #1 priority. I needed a wake-up call. I am wide awake now. I realize that this process of self-improvement will be for life and I have much work to do. Life is too short not to be happy.
Do we become bitter or better from this? I choose to become better no matter what.
I believe we become better in all of this.
Sounds like your an amazing Dad. Your kids are very lucky.
LITB:
Man you are doing a MUCH better job than I did at first with the whole thing. I spent months depressed and took away from time with my D, I made work my priority to escape reality. I am getting my footing back but it has been a long process.
You on the other hand are doing exactly the right thing by keeping the kids busy and just being a great dad. The positive outlook and positive interactions has reflected in the way you W has reacted. It is important to keep the kids busy and happy during this difficult time and it looks like you are doing a great job of that.
How are you doing with the distance with your W and how are the kids taking it?
Sounds like your an amazing Dad. Your kids are very lucky.
Thank You DG.
How are you doing with the distance with your W and how are the kids taking it?
Thanks for asking 2step.
The kids are doing surprisingly well since the W left. They haven't said once that they want to go to NM with their mom. Not even when I've had to discipline them. My D7 has been consistent at school throughout most of this transition. Hopefully she will continue when they move. That was a big concern for me.
As for me, I have my moments. Specifically had difficult days for Easter and our anniversary. There have been a couple of other moments where I have gotten overwhelmed with the responsibilities of being a single parent. I had to remove myself to regroup. All in all, I’m doing okay since the W moved. I do miss her tremendously though.
Everything finally caught up to me this week as I was feeling worn down physically. I got some extra rest the last couple of days and now I’m ready for the birthday party tomorrow. I’m excited for the kids. My daughter has been worried about what we are going to do for entertainment. I told her not to worry, I have it covered. She will be blown away when the mobile entertainment vehicle pulls up.
Back to my sitch for a bit. One thing that I haven’t mentioned is that I wasn’t happy myself before the bomb. I was very resentful towards my MIL and I felt like my W was enabling her to not take responsibility for herself. I am not proud of the way I was acting or some of the things that I said to my W. I lost myself for about 3 months last year where I felt like I was on a raft in the middle of the ocean not living. The bomb forced me to look at myself to try to figure out what I want out of this life. I’m going to be happy despite the fact that my W doesn’t want to be M to me right now.
LITB, so many similarities in our sitchs. You are doing great man. Keep it up and keep having fun with the kids!
Thanks Country!!
Update.....
Yesterday was my D7 birthday party and the whole thing turned out to be a success. Everyone from the kids to the parents had a great time. Both my D7 and S5 were surprised when the Games2u entertainment vehicle showed up
I sent my W a few pics during the party while the kids were playing. She was very complimentary on what a great party it was for our girl. I wanted to tell her that I wished she was here with us, but I didn’t. I did jump at the opportunity to plant a seed in the following string of text messages. This is after sending a pic of the kids dancing…
W: You ROCK!!!
M: Thanks mom!! I feel pretty damn good about myself.  Thank you for helping me find who I really am. I’m sorry that it took you to do what you decided to do. 
W: The babies have their Daddy back and that is what means the world to me. 
I left it at that as difficult as it was. At least she didn’t respond negatively. It is a challenge to be continuously patient at times. Overall, it was a fantastic weekend.
At the end of my last thread, I had made note that the MIL had been hospitalized. She has been diagnosed with meningitis for the second time in just under a year. That was on Tuesday. I just got off the phone with my W and it sounds like she may be in there for at least another week.
There have been many interesting things in regards to this past week with the MIL.
I was the first person she called to let me know what was going on. I don’t know if that means anything, other than I have always been there.
One of the reasons the W moved to NM was to be closer to her family. Unfortunately, they have given her limited support this week. She has been running herself ragged trying to get to work, to the hospital and do everything else. She can’t miss work, because she just started and she doesn’t have LITB anymore to help her out. Thankfully the kids are with me right now. TBH, I feel bad for her and I wish that I could be there for her. I have consistently let her know if she needs anything, to know that I am here for her.
Something that came up in our convo tonight is in regards to the sitch with her mom. Apparently my MIL told my W that she is looking to be in financial trouble. The W told her that she can live with her until she gets things in order. Hmmm, shocker!! When you enable someone to sit on their a$$ and not get their sh!t together….what do you think is gonna happen?
As some of you may know, my MIL58 was supposed to live with us for 6 months in the bay area to get a job and a place to live. She never updated a resume or looked at a job ad once. The W and I clashed big time and she has held that over my head.
I think the wife had been unhappy before this, but this helped put a nail in our marital coffin IMO. I really love and miss my W and want a new M with her. What I see is more of the same from her and the MIL. It appears the W will continue to enable her mom and I’m not sure that I want any part of that. I guess I’ll worry about it if we ever come to that bridge. First, I hope her mom regains her health and everything else falls into place.
I have to admit, I wasn’t fully detached this weekend. Time to be not so available I think. We shall see.
I had emailed the W several pics of the birthday party, Easter and some others of the kids yesterday. In one of the emails, the attachments didn’t make it through. The W replied to let me know. I told her that I would upload them to my photobucket account. This was her latest email:
Excellent!!! Thank you….
I just left from visiting Mom at the hospital; she had the nasal packing done today and tomorrow is the actual procedure. It looks like she won’t be going home from the hospital until this coming weekend. I feel so bad for her, she is just exhausted and still feeling some pain.
I’m leaving after work today to pick up my Aunt and A. They are going to take care of Mom while I am in TX. My flight leaves tomorrow @ 12:30pm.
I will call on my way to out or on my way back. I know you said that you may work late to take off on Thursday for D7 picnic.
The pictures have been GREAT!!!! They really have been therapeutic for me. I’m just mentally and physically exhausted. I hope to sleep on the plane tomorrow.
It sure does su*k to see someone you love and care for going through such a difficult time and there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it. I haven’t replied to this email yet. I suppose a casual friend like reply? Any suggestions?
LITB, your wife seems to be pretty good in her communication with you. I think you should keep this light hearted convo going. Maybe you can email back with some encouraging words on her trip.
I'll pass on the advice I just received:
You didn't validate her feelings.
Here she has noted that she feels bad for her mom and she is exhausted. Validate those feelings.
Thanks for the input fellas. I'll type something up and post before I send it.
Here is my reply that I have not sent:
I can’t imagine how bad you feel for your mom(stealing this straight from your thread CS). I’m sorry you have to travel right in the middle of being there for her. Hopefully she’ll be back up to par before you know it.
The rest of the email will be to give her the logistics of getting a hold of the kids this afternoon since I am working late.
Update:
Last Tuesday I received the revised agreement that was supposed to have additional language to better protect me. The document company did not incorporate all of the changes that my W and I agreed to and specifically requested. W was out of town on business and didn't get to address it until this morning.
This brought back the uneasy feelings of anger that I've had regarding child custody since the beginning.
Those feelings festered until yesterday when I decided to do a temperature check on the W. Wow, she still holds some very deep anger towards me and still blames me for all of her unhappiness. She said that she felt lonely in our R and that she got so tired of me that she didn't want to be around me. OUCH!! I don't remember ever hearing her cry the way she did yesterday. TBH, it scared me for her.
Who knows if and when she will forgive me? It s*cks.
In the meantime, I have an email into my attorney to revisit my case. The MIL is the primary help to my W with the kids. With her being hospitalized for the 2nd time in just less then a year, she is more of a liability than an asset to my W. Not to mention that they are doing well living with me.
I have been trying to do all the right things, but I think we are at the point where the gloves are about to come off. This is going to be painful.
I would say stop taking temp checks on your W it is like constantly looking for ways to hurt yourself because we get the answer we should expect but don't want to hear.
It is hard but it serves no purpose at all.
Why are you doing all the "right things"?
Because you want a certain outcome?
We all want the same thing or at least we start wanting the same thing but if we do not do them for the right reason then eventually our true colors will shine through because the changes are not real.
I am not saying we need to make all the changes as LBS but we can only work on ourselves. In the long run if you ever want a healthy R with your W she will have to look in the mirror also.
Feeling angry?
We have the right to feel angry.
I think sometimes we forget that. After all they walked out on us.
But
We can spend all our time being angry about that or realizing that we contributed to the end of the M/R and start to look inside at what we can do differently. Not because we want them back but because they are changes we need to make. If we don't I hate to say we will all be return visitors here at some point in our lives
Thanks for dropping in 2step.
I would say stop taking temp checks on your W it is like constantly looking for ways to hurt yourself because we get the answer we should expect but don't want to hear.
You are absolutely right. This was the first time I did this since the W moved out on March 25th. Needless to say lesson learned.
I learned that my W still has so much built up resentment that she needs a lot of time to even begin to forgive me. Whenever she decided she was unhappy, she lasered in on every negative thing she could think of about me. She backtracked to the beginning.
Back to doing what I was doing before taking her temp, along with giving her additional space.
Why are you doing all the "right things"?
Because you want a certain outcome?
We all want the same thing or at least we start wanting the same thing but if we do not do them for the right reason then eventually our true colors will shine through because the changes are not real.
I am not saying we need to make all the changes as LBS but we can only work on ourselves. In the long run if you ever want a healthy R with your W she will have to look in the mirror also.
I know many of my changes were originally with the intent of saving my M. What I have found is that they are changes that needed to be made and I’m happy with the new LITB.
My W has taken notice and says that she is happy for the kids, but it makes her angry that it took her having to D me to get me to change. There isn’t anything I can do about her feelings or the past, but to continue being positive and living my life.
Feeling angry?
We have the right to feel angry.
I think sometimes we forget that. After all they walked out on us.
You are right again. I had put any negative feelings on a shelf and there they sat until last week.
Right now, being a full-time single parent, there isn’t much time for myself to process my own feelings. Perhaps by me starting to work about an hour away beginning tomorrow will give me time to do some additional reflecting.
More from yesterday:
During our convo, I told her that I was sorry about the past. If I could go back in time to fix everything, I would. Unfortunately I can’t and I can only keep improving from this day forward. I also told her that I didn’t need her in my life, but want her in my life. Only if she wants to be in my life though.
There was plenty said. One of the main points the W said is that she feels that sometimes I forget for how long she was unhappy for. I don’t forget. I just didn’t know. That’s another thing that she mentioned. She doesn’t understand how I didn’t know how unhappy she was.
I’m all over the place. Time to call it a night.
I have been reading many posts by 25 about child custody, specifically in MyKarma's and TimmyT's threads. They opened my eyes to things that I didn't think about. So much so, that I just sent my attorney an email to let her know that I want to pursue custody of my kids.
I know it is about to get ugly, but I'm not going down without fighting for them.
2step steps up to the plate again and knocks one out of the park.
Good on you LIB. If there is one thing worth fighting for is your children. Dont ever forget something like that.
Good luck.
Ill be pulling for you.
9
So much so, that I just sent my attorney an email to let her know that I want to pursue custody of my kids.
Can you remind me what the previous plan was? Your W moved away, and you have your kids now, correct?
What was going to happen going forward?
Thanks 9. I appreciate your support.
Can you remind me what the previous plan was? Your W moved away, and you have your kids now, correct?
What was going to happen going forward?
The plan was to send my kids to NM with my W in mid-July. They have been with me since the end of March. If I live away from NM, then I would get them during summer breaks, spring break, Christmas and Thanksgiving. If I moved to NM, then I would get them 50/50.
I've looked at the job prospects for me in NM and I would be lucky to make a 1/3 of what I do here.
I think 50/50 is fair, but not at the expense of my career because of her choice.
I should have hired a L in Jan/Feb. Honestly, I feared stirring things up more and really upsetting my W. Plus I didn't want to drag my kids through a custody battle. Unfortunately I have no choice if I want to be in my kids lives.
The way 25 painted the picture, helped me see my role quite clearly and what I need to do. I have a meeting with my L next Wednesday to go over everything.
Thanks for the recap.
Yeah, that is tough, be prepared for a rough rode ahead. But putting your kids first is important.
Hang in there.
Honestly, I feared stirring things up more and really upsetting my W
This is one of the biggest problems of the LBS.
When you take action to protect yourself and your kids what does it matter that the WAW gets angry?
ugghhh.
Yeah, that is tough, be prepared for a rough rode ahead. But putting your kids first is important.
Hang in there.
Thanks Country.
[quote]This is one of the biggest problems of the LBS.
When you take action to protect yourself and your kids what does it matter that the WAW gets angry?
ugghhh.
Exactly. I wish that it would have occurred to me earlier in my sitch. I have to thank 25 big time for shedding some light for me.
TBH, this was part of the reason I took a temp on my W this past Monday. The other part was because I truly want to be there for her while she goes through a difficult time with her mom's health.
The plan was to send my kids to NM with my W in mid-July. They have been with me since the end of March. If I live away from NM, then I would get them during summer breaks, spring break, Christmas and Thanksgiving. If I moved to NM, then I would get them 50/50.
I've looked at the job prospects for me in NM and I would be lucky to make a 1/3 of what I do here.
I think 50/50 is fair, but not at the expense of my career because of her choice.
I should have hired a L in Jan/Feb. Honestly, I feared stirring things up more and really upsetting my W. Plus I didn't want to drag my kids through a custody battle. Unfortunately I have no choice if I want to be in my kids lives.
The way 25 painted the picture, helped me see my role quite clearly and what I need to do. I have a meeting with my L next Wednesday to go over everything.
LITB, these were exactly my thoughts when it came to child custody and my wife.
My wife is not out of state, but still about 200 miles away. And yup, my job prospects in her town are pretty bad.
Last week when i talked to her about lawyer trying to get the 50/50 schedule, she flew off the handle and guilted me of not thinking about our daughter. I think that was total BS.
I think all the BITS really showed me how important it is to make sure that your kids know both the parents well.
Good luck on your fight.
L in the B:
This resonated with me. My WAW echoes this sentiment. We don't communicate at all so things are in limbo. It's frustrating, so I'm just doing the best I can with GAL.
Your attitude on the sitch is healthy...I strive to get to where you're at.
Hang in there.
_______________________
M: 47; W: 39
M: 4.5 yrs; T: 18 years
No children
Separated: 01/19/11
Wife Served Papers: 02/1/11
Wife moved: 03/05/11
Responded: 04/14/11
Update:
Those feelings festered until yesterday when I decided to do a temperature check on the W. Wow, she still holds some very deep anger towards me and still blames me for all of her unhappiness. She said that she felt lonely in our R and that she got so tired of me that she didn't want to be around me. OUCH!! I don't remember ever hearing her cry the way she did yesterday. TBH, it scared me for her.
Please understand LITB, that you DO need to fight for your kids, but...
Kids develop BEST when then have the MOST access to BOTH parents.
50/50 is the best, with most access to both parents.
Fighting for custody, reducing the access time of the other spouse, whether done by the WAS or the LBS is reducing the opportunity for the kids to develop BEST.
I'm not saying give in, but I am saying do what is right for the kids, given the situation.
Please understand LITB, that you DO need to fight for your kids, but...
Kids develop BEST when then have the MOST access to BOTH parents.
50/50 is the best, with most access to both parents.
Fighting for custody, reducing the access time of the other spouse, whether done by the WAS or the LBS is reducing the opportunity for the kids to develop BEST.
I'm not saying give in, but I am saying do what is right for the kids, given the situation.
I completely understand and have put a lot of thought into this decision. Given the circumstances and the choices that I have, it is a no win situation no matter what I decide.
That being said, I am doing what I feel is in the best interest of our kids. I have always been a good dad despite what my W claims. She has conveniently forgotten all the positive things that I have done.
Believe me, it is not a decision that I'm happy to make, but a decision that had to be made.
I think all the BITS really showed me how important it is to make sure that your kids know both the parents well.
Good luck on your fight.
Thanks Myk. I learned a lot from your thread. So much so it helped me make my decision.
What happens from here only the Lord knows. I'm going to do my best to do my part and leave the rest in his hands.
L in the B:
This resonated with me. My WAW echoes this sentiment. We don't communicate at all so things are in limbo. It's frustrating, so I'm just doing the best I can with GAL.
Your attitude on the sitch is healthy...I strive to get to where you're at.
Hang in there.
Thanks for the kind words wawinla.
The advice I can give you is to continue GAL and take care of yourself. That's the only thing we can control. Make the best of the time we are given, because tomorrow is not a given.
It isn't easy to put our situations aside, but it has to happen for our own sanity. Believe me, just when I think that I am doing well, I get overcome with sadness. I'm sure we all cycle through it to some degree. Some more than others.
Continue GAL and you will be fine in time.
With all the advice flying around here, I gather that limited contact/going dark worked well for others that have been down this path.
Personally, I feel that I need to begin limiting contact with my W as well. When I took her temp on Monday, she said some very harsh things about me(not a surprise). Within the last couple of days she has tried to draw me out. I have to admit that she was successful until yesterday afternoon. She sent me 2 text messages that I didn't reply to. I haven't heard from her since. I figured WTH do I want to talk to someone that just told me on Monday she didn't want to be around me. I feel like her spare tire. Enough of that.
And always LOOK your best and BE your best, in case chance encounters with her might happen or friends who see you tell your W how happy you are and good you look...
and the side effect...? We actually begin to believe we look good and feel good...
Yep..that's the toughest part..the cycling back and forth.
L in the B:
This resonated with me. My WAW echoes this sentiment. We don't communicate at all so things are in limbo. It's frustrating, so I'm just doing the best I can with GAL.
Your attitude on the sitch is healthy...I strive to get to where you're at.
Hang in there.
Thanks for the kind words wawinla.
The advice I can give you is to continue GAL and take care of yourself. That's the only thing we can control. Make the best of the time we are given, because tomorrow is not a given.
It isn't easy to put our situations aside, but it has to happen for our own sanity. Believe me, just when I think that I am doing well, I get overcome with sadness. I'm sure we all cycle through it to some degree. Some more than others.
Continue GAL and you will be fine in time.
And always LOOK your best and BE your best, in case chance encounters with her might happen or friends who see you tell your W how happy you are and good you look...
and the side effect...? We actually begin to believe we look good and feel good...
Thanks KD. I actually do feel really good these days. My kids have made a world of difference for me in being happy. I have no other choice than to be the best I can for them.
Update on my progress on reducing contact with my W.
Her mom is back in the hospital after being released on Friday. When she called to let me know about her mom being released, I let the call go to VM. I didn't know why she was calling, nor did I feel like talking to her at the time. I had the kids call her back when I got home about an hour later. After they were done talking I ended the call, because I still didn't feel like talking to her. Apparently she wanted to talk to me.
She called Saturday morning while I was on the phone and left another message. She said that D8 must have not told me that she wanted to talk to give me an update on her mom. Our D didn’t. I called her back, listened and told her that I was glad that her mom is better and back home. In the evening, she called again to tell me she was back in the ER with her mom. Then during the night she sends me a text letting me know her mom is getting admitted. When I replied this morning, she called to let me know that her mom has a blood clot and will be in the hospital for 3-4 more days. The only reply I had was, “I’m glad that you didn’t wait and took her back to the hospital.”
It’s getting old TBH. Last Monday I told her that I wished that I could be there for her and that I missed her. She blasted me for not being there for her before and told me she was so sick of me that she didn’t want to be around me. I get we had an emotional disconnect and I’m willing to work through those issues. To say that I wasn’t there for her before is complete nonsense. It is amazing how many positive things a WAS forgets.
Well, I meet with my L on Wednesday to go over my case on custody of our kids. I’m sure things will get more interesting for my sitch in the next couple of weeks. The reduced contact might just happen on its own. We shall see.
My W has been dealing with some difficult times within the last 2-3 weeks and she just got hit with more bad news.
I've been journaling about my MIL being hospitalized and she remains in the hospital. So that has been a huge burden on my W.
What I haven't included in any journal is that her cousin32 had been hospitalized for the last week with untreated strep throat, that turned into pneumonia. I don't know the entire story, but I do know that the illness destroyed his kidneys and they had put him in an induced coma. Forgive me for my medical terminology. The news that we kept hearing was that he was improving. Unfortunately I received a call from my W within the hour that he wasn't able to pull through and that he had passed away.
I'm just blown away. He has always been a healthy person. It just goes to show you that life on this earth is short and we don't know when our time is up. Understandably my W was upset and I tried to comfort her as much as possible. I was able to pray with her to ask the Lord to give the family comfort during their difficult time and that may their sorrow turn into joy. She was very thankful.
So here I am, getting ready to meet with my L tomorrow to go over my case as my W deals with some challenging times. I don't plan to stop fighting for my kids given the circumstances, but I do feel some obligation in letting her know what I am up to. Of course not give her all the details. I just don't want to blindside her right now.
I don't know. I would like some input from the board.
LITB, I just popped in read that last thread. That's devastating! I think you will know the right thing to do. It probably would be the right thing to do to just give her a quick heads up that you're meeting with the L. All business, little details.
I will pray for the family as well.
I will pray for the family as well.
Thank you JB. That is certainly appreciated.
So here I am, getting ready to meet with my L tomorrow to go over my case as my W deals with some challenging times. I don't plan to stop fighting for my kids given the circumstances, but I do feel some obligation in letting her know what I am up to. Of course not give her all the details. I just don't want to blindside her right now.
I don't know. I would like some input from the board.
Any help with my dilemma? Should I wait until after I meet with my attorney to say anything?
I've told her before that I have always been upfront and honest with her regarding the agreement that was originally worked out, but I never signed.
Perhaps a simple email? I'm not out to hurt her, just out to protect myself and my kids.
Hey LITB,
I'm short on time, but I don't think there is anything wrong with giving your W a heads up.
Perhaps talk with your L first to see where you stand and then talk to her.
There is a fine line between DBing and then just doing what you believe is right. You seem to have a positive relationship with your W. I think I would let her know.
Just a very humble opinion...
Thanks Country. I think that I will let her know later today. If I get a chance, I will post the email that will be sent.
Here is the email that I'm thinking of sending. Please give me any feedback.
Good Morning W,
I realize that you are going through some difficult times right now and the last thing you want to deal with is the D. It is the last thing I want to deal with myself.
Since the beginning of our situation, I have been very forthcoming on everything with you and I wish to continue doing that. Just to let you know, I will be meeting with my attorney soon to go over the agreement and to get her advice on how I should proceed.
It is important to me to be considerate of you and the circumstances.
I hope you have a great day.
LITB
IDK LITB, this email doesn't really say anything.
Like I said, I would talk to your L first.
Find out where you stand, and what type of arrangement your L sees as realistic. Get your facts first.
Then, if you chose, you can let your W know your plans before she is contacted by her L.
My 2 pennies.
Thanks CS. I haven't sent the email to her. I will take your advice and meet with my L before I communicate with my W regarding this.
LITB,
You are under no obligation -- legal, moral or otherwise -- to discuss your legal plans with your wife.
There's a reason they put that little "v" in-between the names of the parties. Ours is, by its very design, an adversarial system.
Be civil, courteous -- even kind -- but don't discuss your legal or financial details with your wife ahead of time. I'm certain your atty will tell you the same thing.
Starsky
Update...
I have retained an attorney to fight for custody of my kids. I feel good about my decision.
25, I don't know if you read my thread, but please know you had something to do with my decision based on what you posted to others. For that, THANK YOU!!
I'm glad I followed your advice CS about not letting my W know until after meeting with my L. I have nearly 2 weeks before she will get served with the papers. That will give me time to think about what and when to let her know. Also to allow her to deal with some of the difficulties she is facing with her family.
Now if the document company ever gets back to her on the changes they were supposed to make, then I will have to bring up my new plan.
Things will now get interesting, but I still plan to be as pleasant as possible to my W despite that things may get ugly.
LITB,
You are under no obligation -- legal, moral or otherwise -- to discuss your legal plans with your wife.
There's a reason they put that little "v" in-between the names of the parties. Ours is, by its very design, an adversarial system.
Be civil, courteous -- even kind -- but don't discuss your legal or financial details with your wife ahead of time. I'm certain your atty will tell you the same thing.
Starsky
Starsky...how do we get you off moderation? You have nearly 1000 posts. Who did you make mad? I kid.
I haven't told the W anything. My L told me that this is a decision that only I can make. I'm going to hang tight to see how this next week plays out with everything else going on. There is no rush to do anything.
One good thing that comes out of the new direction that we are going is the both my W and I must take a couple of courses. One is how to parent our kids as divorced parents. My W hasn't or didn't plan on doing anything to research the impact of her decison. Will it resonate for her? Who knows? It is at least something she will be required to do. I'm good with that.
LITB,
you sound pretty healthy. I love the way you said you are now "awake" to your life and kids
and that you had been asleep before...
Great news. Maybe it's good to thank your w for that. (Seriously)
What do your kids want to do as far as where to live?
If they're cool with staying in place, as I suspect, all the better. I'd think the judge will ask them and they'd be getting the most stability that way.
How are their R's with w? I'm sure you will encourage them to stay as close as they can, given the givens. The more loved they feel by their parents, the better. They are already dealing with an absentee mother, who may seem to have chosen her mother over her children. Ouch...
I assume you are reassuring them this is not the case (even if it partly is...) their feeling of being loved really is the priority, not you being "accurate"...make sense? I never understand the blame game when it comes to the kids. As if they don't already feel crappy...down deep, they do hurt.
Anyhow, Keep on keeping on, and good luck
Thank you for stopping by my thread 25. You are quite an asset to these forums and provide tremendous, thought provoking posts.
LITB,
you sound pretty healthy. I love the way you said you are now "awake" to your life and kids
and that you had been asleep before...
I’m going to give you some insight(history) about the time I felt like I was asleep…….
My W and I had a difficult 2009 with the economy like many others, but I was fortunate enough to land a great job up here in the bay area. While in transition as I lived up here on my own for 4 months, my dad passed away. I was okay following his death, but I didn’t mourn his loss immediately. I was very close to my dad. He was my go to person when I needed advice. I get choked up just typing this about him and finding myself in my current sitch.
I digress, after moving the family up here in March of ’10, the MIL comes down with meningitis for the 1st time in June of last year. I fly my family down to Vegas that night. They end up staying with her for 5 weeks before the MIL was well enough to be on her own and I can come pick them up. Whenever I spoke to my W sounded miserable and anxious to get home. Also, our kids were miserable down there as they were being shuffled around between family and friends as the W took care her mom. When I came to pick them up and as I was packing some stuff up, the MIL made a comment about me moving her 2 weekends after this. I’ll admit, that I rudely said I want to spend some of the summer with my family and I will move her up in 3 weeks. My W called me on being rude. I apologized and told her that I just wanted to spend time with my family.
Three weeks later I fly down there and with the help of a couple of my friends I get her moved in with us(big mistake). Note: My wife made the decision for the MIL to move up here and the MIL basically agrees to whatever my W decides. I didn’t have a problem with her moving in with us as my W is her only child and I didn’t object once. The W and I discussed about how long she would live with us and came up with about 6 months. Well, once the MIL settled in, all she did was watch tv, sit at the computer and eat bonbons all day. I am not aware of her ever updating a resume or looking at one job listing…..not once. At this time I was working 6 days a week and the last thing I want to see when I get home is my MIL sitting on her a$$ in my living room (over 40 hours per week recorded on the DVR) and eating all of our food.
The W and I had discussions on when was her mom going to put any effort into helping herself. The discussions escalated into a couple of nasty arguments. I said things to my W that are out of character for me.
Ultimately it lead to me being disconnected from my family. I’d get home, eat dinner and go to my room. I didn’t want to be around the MIL anymore and my W was enabling her. She used her illness as a crutch.
There were days that I wished that I had my dad to talk to. I basically just shut the world out.
My W doesn’t understand why I got to where I was and refuses to give me any slack about it.
Sorry about the length of this post. I intended to keep it short, but I wanted to paint the picture.
Great news. Maybe it's good to thank your w for that. (Seriously)
I did get the opportunity to thank her the day of my daughter’s birthday party as I was sending her pics. We were texting back and forth. After a pic, she sent this message.
25, I think I took the message I sent my W from one of your post
W: You ROCK!!!! (Not the first time she has said I’m a great dad in the last couple of months.)
M: Thanks mom!! I feel pretty damn good about myself. Thank you for helping find who I really am. I’m sorry that it took you to do what you decided to do.
W: The babies have their daddy back and that means the world to me.
What do your kids want to do as far as where to live?
If they're cool with staying in place, as I suspect, all the better. I'd think the judge will ask them and they'd be getting the most stability that way.
This question hasn’t been asked as everyone has been under the impression that our agreement was concrete and they’d be moving with their mom next month. Our D8 thinks that she will be moving down there, so she hasn’t said too much. Our S5 thinks he is going down there for a short time and then coming back.
My L will file a motion to keep the kids here with me while the D runs its course. Our hearing wouldn’t be until September, which means they will be in school and the courts like to keep things for the kids status quo. I think that bodes well for me.
How are their R's with w? I'm sure you will encourage them to stay as close as they can, given the givens. The more loved they feel by their parents, the better. They are already dealing with an absentee mother, who may seem to have chosen her mother over her children. Ouch...
I assume you are reassuring them this is not the case (even if it partly is...) their feeling of being loved really is the priority, not you being "accurate"...make sense? I never understand the blame game when it comes to the kids. As if they don't already feel crappy...down deep, they do hurt.
Their R with their mom is good. She calls them every day and keeps in touch. Most of the time I let her calls go to VM unless they are close enough to hand them the phone. I don’t have any reason to talk with her and haven’t felt like it these past few days. Sometimes they don’t want to talk to her either, because they just don’t feel like it. They are kids, I’m sure they’d do the same thing to me.
I don’t say anything negative to them about my W. She will always be their mom and it will hurt them. My W can deal with that when they get old enough to question her. My responsibility is to protect them and shield them from the craziness. To my W’s credit, she has done a great job in that department as well.
TBH, part of the reason I hadn’t hired a L until now, was because I didn’t want to drag them through a custody battle(along with my fear). I wanted to protect them from something they shouldn’t have to be dealing with. However I can’t protect them from everything else if I don’t try my best to keep them near me. I’m ready to do whatever it takes to protect them from anything, including my W’s decision. As much as I can anyway.
Anyhow, Keep on keeping on, and good luck
Thanks again 25.
Update.....
Everything happening with my MIL's health is unreal. Last I updated that the W had taken her back to the hospital last Saturday night. It turned out that she had a blood clot. Well I haven't really talked with my W since Sunday until she just left a message to call her back about 30 minutes ago. She asked to talk with me specifically.
Apparently the MIL was lethargic today and she might have had a stroke. A CT scan has been run and they are waiting for the results.
I don't even know what to think. They moved to NM to be close to their family, however my W is at the hospital by herself supporting her mom. This has been the case her entire hospital stay as far as I can tell.
I've been dim for nearly a week, but I did send her a TM after we talked to call me if she needs me. This is beyond our M/R right now and I will be her "spare tire" under these circumstances.
It's impossible to stay dark with everything she is dealing with.
Just be a friend if that is what she wants or needs. At the end of the day you are in CA and she is in NM so there is not a lot of support you can offer other than words. Be consistent and be kind, regardless of what happens you can never go wrong with that
Thanks for checking in 2step.
Update....
Apparently my MIL's health is a mystery. The doctors don't know what is going on with her. Per a convo with the W this morning, she didn't have a stroke. She's been in the hospital for 24 out of the last 25 days starting with meningitis, then a blood clot and who knows what now.
TBH, I know the right thing to do is to be there for her if she needs me, but I just don't feel like it right now. I want to continue to be dim/dark for my own sanity. Besides, I'm starting to wonder if she tries to make me feel sorry for her with everything she is going through. My compassion has its limits.
I’m in transition from caring and being somewhat attached to just not giving a you know what.
Let’s see how I feel over the next few days. There is still a lot going on. She is still under the impression the kids are heading to NM in a month, so we will have the introduction of my stance on the custody issues. Also, her family in Vegas is in the process of making funeral arrangements for her cousin and her aunt has asked me to be there(the aunt that has taken my side since my W told her she was getting a D from me). If I can make it down there, I’m going to try.
TBH, I know the right thing to do is to be there for her if she needs me, but I just don't feel like it right now. I want to continue to be dim/dark for my own sanity.
Damn, can I delete that last post? I can't even make it 2 hours at this rate, much less a few days. My W just called me upset about the health of her mom. The MIL has not been herself since yesterday afternoon and fell today. This is insane. My W has only told an uncle and myself about what's going on. I had to make an adjustment on the fly (retracting my previous post about not feeling like being there for her) and told her she knows to call me if she needs to.
Compassion is always better than bitterness.
I swing back and forth between genuinely feeling sorry for XW and then I'll feel resentment for her choices.
The former definately is a better place to be.
Just don't fall into the trap of feeling smugly "superior" for making "saintly" decisions.
But do what you must to keep your sanity.
LIB:
You know that answer is always to take the high road. Be there for her as a friend would be for another close friend.
You dont have to do more than that. I was there for an entire week for my W when her mom died but pulled back when i apparently misread a text from her. I thought she wanted me to pull back but she said later that is not what she meant.
Anyway, when things like this happen , IMO, you have to put all else aside and be the bigger person. Your kids need to see a person that can handle adversity and still be the kind of man they can admire.
9
Thanks for chiming in fellas. You are both right about just being a friend that she can lean on in a time like this.
She knows that she has always been able to count on me when dealing with these types of situations. I'm still the first person she calls. I'm working on being a better listener to what she is saying and less of a fixer. Not that I can fix any of what she is dealing with.
Last night my W asked me to continue praying for her mom. I told her, "of course, would you like me to have pastor call to pray with you too?". She did. He called her this morning, coincidently right before I returned her call. She was very appreciative.
The high road is much better than the alternative.
An update on the MIL. The doctors ran an MRI this morning and another CT scan per a convo with my W this afternoon. It is looking more and more like she did have a stroke. The results of the test have not come back, but unfortunately it is not good. The results should be in tomorrow.
I wanted to share something interesting with the board that happened to me, while contemplating the fight for the custody of my kids.
Back in March I had gone to bible study and the pastor said something that stuck in my head. He said, “when you pray, do you ever stop to listen to God for what he wants you to do or do you just pray to ask God about your needs? He gave us one mouth and two ears for a reason.” That’s me paraphrasing.
That night before bed, I read my meditation book and said my prayers. While I prayed , I asked the Lord to give me the strength and the wisdom to make all the right decision regarding my situation and specifically about my kids. After I was done praying, I sat there quietly and listening for a few moments. Nothing happened and I went to bed.
Sometime during the night, not one of my kids, but both of them came to sleep with me. Mind you, neither of them are in the habit of coming to my room after bedtime. I don’t remember them getting into bed, but when I woke up to both of them, I felt that was God telling me to fight for my kids and everything will be just fine.
Even though I took that as a sign, I still had a lot of fear.
The fear of pushing my W further away.
The fear of putting my kids through an ugly custody battle.
The fear of having to work the rest of my life paying for my wife to live her life off of my support.
Just plain fear.
Then I started reading some of the post by 25 to MyKarma on his thread and to someone else in their thread about fighting for our kids. It made perfect sense, but I still had fear.
Then on May 27th, I opened my meditation book (Moments of Peace in the Presence of God Morning and Evening Edition). A great book BTW that has given me peace.
This is the title of the evening meditation:
WHEN FEAR COMES CHARGING IN
When I get really afraid I come to you in trust. Psalm 56:3
Fear is a powerful, unreasonable emotion. It influences how you think and react, and it even affects your physical well-being. Fear will stop you from reaching your potential or from allowing your loved ones to be all they can be. You know God is directing you in a certain way, but you refuse to step out in faith because of your apprehension.
Understand that your fear is based on an expectation of punishment-you believe it’s inevitable that only bad things will happen. Instead, you must focus on God’s character. God is all-powerful, all knowing, and completely loving. So obey him-he’ll only lead you in what’s best for you. With God, you never have to be afraid.
God, fear is a powerful influence in my life. Help me to obey you in faith and trust you whenever my anxieties come charging in. Amen
In God, whose word I praise, in God I have put my trust; I shall not be afraid. What can mere man do to me? Psalm 56:4
After reading this, I’m like, “okay God, I hear you loud and clear.”
The last thing that finally helped me get over my fear was my W. On Memorial Day I took her temperature. I know DB preaches against it, but I needed to see where her heart was before I hired an attorney(crazy I know). She unleashed on me and said some mean things. It told me that I couldn’t push her further away. I didn’t need to fear that anymore. It was already a reality.
Do I know how things will turn out? No, but I don’t have the fear anymore and I know that no matter what happens……LITB will be okay.
1 Corinthians 13:4-8
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, 5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
I have to keep these scriptures near to keep them at the front of my mind.
LITB:
In regards to children custody, we are in similar situations.
Yup, i had the same exact fears as you did. But with the advise of BITS in this forum, i understood the importance of being there in your kid's life. This weekend i spent time with my daughter reinforced that belief in me.
So stay strong and try to live the moment. It helps immensely.
Update......
The MIL did not have a stroke. She has something else going on in her head. Thankfully all indications are that she is going to be alright.
On the D front, my W sent me an email this morning asking about the status of our agreement. I haven't replied to let her know the agreement is off the table and that I have retained a L. I sent the message to my L to advise me on what to do.
I knew this day was coming. Not a day I looked forward to. I'll have to let her know soon. $ucks.
I think 25 said (or at least referenced) the only way through it is through it. Yeah, it'll be rough, but you have a lot of support here.
Concentrate on the good news that MIL will be ok. You will too.
Very smart move consulting with your L before responding.
This will be tough, no doubt. However if your intentions are good, which I know they are, you will get through it. Be honest, caring, and strong.
LITB, stay strong in this. You might go through a multitude of emotions now. But through all this know that you are doing this so that the kids will have a better future.
When i told my wife about me retaining lawyer and that i'll be contesting her actions on child custody, she hit the ceiling and said a lot of mean stuff. It hurt like hell. But i did not back down.
Heads up. I am not sure how your wife might react. But in my case wife did not make it easy for me to interact with daughter. She did not prevent me from talking, but did not assist either.
Hopefully it will not be the case with you, but just be prepared.
Believe me the initial wave will be hard. But one you dive in, relegate the harder stuff to your lawyer to handle it, life does become easier.
Good luck!
Thanks for the advice and support fellas. I was in the middle of my reply when the server went down. How am I expected to operate under these conditions? Lol Have to use my phone.
I haven't heard back from my L yet. I think that I can buy myself another day or so.
W might be headed to Vegas tomorrow for her cousin's funeral services. I decided that it is in my best interest is not to go. My thoughts are that I have to be here full time for my kids. It doesn't look good on my W going to Vegas and not making any effort to come spend time with the kids since she left. Not once. I hate having to think like that, but that is where I'm @ right now.
I talked with my L, she advised me to ignore the email. Let's see how long this will go before I get pushed for an answer.
Now that I'm getting ready to face some anger from my W when she gets served or finds out that I have a L to fight for custody of our kids, I need advice.
Right now the W and I are in a friendly place where we can communicate without any negative feelings, although I have been limiting my contact with her lately. I want to continue to take the high road when she goes off.
I suspect she's going to call me names, rewind the tape, blame me for all of her unhappiness, etc., etc. I'm trying to prepare myself for what she throws at me.
I'm thinking act "as if" everything will be fine and go in with a positive attitude, don't get defensive, however don't take any unnecessary verbal abuse.
I can use some help with this.
^^^^ This is a biggy.
I think you need to really lay out your case in your own mind right now. Be prepared to explain your actions.
Also validate her concerns, she'll have plenty I presume.
But if your actions are truly in the best interest of your children, and you can explain it clearly, I believe she will eventually understand. Don't expect it right away though.
Let the L's handle as much as possible. I won't sugar coat it, this is going to be tough. Stand tall and be proud you are being the best dad you can be.
I want to continue to take the high road when she goes off.
I suspect she's going to call me names, rewind the tape, blame me for all of her unhappiness, etc., etc. I'm trying to prepare myself for what she throws at me.
I'm thinking act "as if" everything will be fine and go in with a positive attitude, don't get defensive, however don't take any unnecessary verbal abuse.
I think you've got it about right. If she's downright rude or disrespectful, just stop the conversation and say "We'll continue this when you calm down and stop being so rude. You're upset right now and I get that, but I'm not going to stand here and be treated so disrespectfully" (or something similar).
If she keeps it civil, just say things like "I understand you feel that way. Everything I'm doing, I'm trying to do what's best for the kids and myself. This is what I've decided is best right now."
Starsky
^^^^
Sounds like good advice to me. You are doing the right thing. When all is said and done, you have to make sure you did the right thing for your kids.
I'll keep you in my prayers.
I read through your last few posts. I think you are prayerfully following God's direction in this.
I'll also quote my DB coach. "Fear is a powerful motivator, but a terrible guide."
Finally, on the lighter side, I selected a Foghat song on a jukebox last night in honor of you.
I think you need to really lay out your case in your own mind right now. Be prepared to explain your actions.
You are right Country. I'm going to start writing everything down. It seems that I remember my responses much better when I put them on paper. Great suggestion.
Also validate her concerns, she'll have plenty I presume.
Indeed. This part should be interesting. I need to put some thought into what her concerns might be and what my reaction/rebuttal to her will be.
But if your actions are truly in the best interest of your children, and you can explain it clearly, I believe she will eventually understand. Don't expect it right away though.
Yeah, I don't expect her to understand immediately. I expect an emotion of rage from her when she finds out that I reneged on our agreement. Hopefully she will understand my decision someday. Ultimately, I know that I am making the right decision.
Let the L's handle as much as possible. I won't sugar coat it, this is going to be tough. Stand tall and be proud you are being the best dad you can be.
Absolutely, my intent is to be the best dad possible. This is the last thing I wanted to do, but there was no other choice. I finally feel comfortable with my decision, despite what the outcome will be.
^^^^
Sounds like good advice to me. You are doing the right thing. When all is said and done, you have to make sure you did the right thing for your kids.
I'll keep you in my prayers.
I read through your last few posts. I think you are prayerfully following God's direction in this.
I'll also quote my DB coach. "Fear is a powerful motivator, but a terrible guide."
Finally, on the lighter side, I selected a Foghat song on a jukebox last night in honor of you.
Thank you JB for the prayers and for hooking up some Foghat in my honor. That is really cool of you.
Your DB coach is right about fear. It was guiding me to just roll over and take the easy way out. Thank God I am no longer afraid.
I think you've got it about right. If she's downright rude or disrespectful, just stop the conversation and say "We'll continue this when you calm down and stop being so rude. You're upset right now and I get that, but I'm not going to stand here and be treated so disrespectfully" (or something similar).
If she keeps it civil, just say things like "I understand you feel that way. Everything I'm doing, I'm trying to do what's best for the kids and myself. This is what I've decided is best right now."
Thanks for the advice Starsky. I appreciate it and will add it to my notes.
Journaling:
Since the W emailed me on Tuesday morning for the status on the agreement, I have heard very little from her since. One would think that if I am in contact with an attorney to review the agreement, she would be more anxious to get it signed. Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining that she isn't pushing for an answer. I just find it strange.
On another note, I had been relatively dim from Memorial Day to this past Monday as she was updating me on her mom's health and dealing with the passing of her cousin. I have gone dark since Monday. The only text message I sent was on Tuesday night after she left a VM. I let her know that D8 was in the shower and S5 was asleep. She apologized about calling so late and let me know why. I haven't heard anything since. She has began calling the kids during the day while I am at work.
Since the W emailed me on Tuesday morning for the status on the agreement, I have heard very little from her since. One would think that if I am in contact with an attorney to review the agreement, she would be more anxious to get it signed. Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining that she isn't pushing for an answer. I just find it strange.
My wife did/does the same thing. Initially i felt the same as you. But now i know that she is just being very cautious by consulting her lawyer before emailing anything. I guess shes just making sure that legally she's kosher.
Could be the same here with you. Or something else. Either way, as the vets here say, don't spend too much time trying to figure them out.
My wife did/does the same thing. Initially i felt the same as you. But now i know that she is just being very cautious by consulting her lawyer before emailing anything. I guess shes just making sure that legally she's kosher.
Could be the same here with you. Or something else. Either way, as the vets here say, don't spend too much time trying to figure them out.
My W doesn't have an attorney right now. As far as I know she doesn't even realize what is about to hit her. She is still under the impression that our agreement is gospel and the kids will be moving with her next month. I'm not offering her any info on my plans. She will find out soon enough.
You are right about not spending too much time on wondering what she is thinking. Although I am good about that for the most part, these thoughts do cross my mind from time to time. The dynamics are fascinating from a psychological standpoint.
LITB,
If she asks you why you didn't warn her (or accuses you of not warning her), tell her that you are following the advice of your attorney on these matters. That this is all new to you, you didn't expect to find yourself in this position, and that you really trust him/her to handle these kinds of things and look out for your interests. Validate that you know it's upsetting to her, but that you're only trying to do what's best for the kids and yourself, considering the circumstances.
The legal system moves slowly. Your wife will have plenty of time and opportunity to protect herself, and rightfully so.
Starsky
LITB,
If she asks you why you didn't warn her (or accuses you of not warning her), tell her that you are following the advice of your attorney on these matters. That this is all new to you, you didn't expect to find yourself in this position, and that you really trust him/her to handle these kinds of things and look out for your interests. Validate that you know it's upsetting to her, but that you're only trying to do what's best for the kids and yourself, considering the circumstances.
The legal system moves slowly. Your wife will have plenty of time and opportunity to protect herself, and rightfully so.
Starsky
That's a great post Starsky. I can see it coming like a freight train with the lights on, horns blowing and the steam flowing out of the stack from miles away.
She does have the right to protect herself and I would like both the W and I to be accessible to our kids. They need both of us. Unfortunately her moving so far away has created a logistical challenge.
Glad to see that you are no longer moderated.
. . .and I would like both the W and I to be accessible to our kids. They need both of us.
You may want to go ahead and reassure her of that. Don't feel the need to tip your legal hand or otherwise "rescue" her from what she's doing, but this one's a biggie and there's no reason why you can't let her know that you have no intention of keeping her from the kids.
Starsky (who's no longer driving the "fully-moderated" Gran Torino)
Starsky (who's no longer driving the "fully-moderated" Gran Torino)
Finally! Congrats
You may want to go ahead and reassure her of that. Don't feel the need to tip your legal hand or otherwise "rescue" her from what she's doing, but this one's a biggie and there's no reason why you can't let her know that you have no intention of keeping her from the kids.
Starsky (who's no longer driving the "fully-moderated" Gran Torino)
Yeah, I have no intention of keeping her from the kids. That is the reason I had originally agreed to allow them to move to NM with her. I thought that I could move there too and have them 50/50, however the job prospects there are terrible for me. The move would devastate my career.
Now depending on the outcome of my sitch, I could still end up there. I'd do it for my kids even though I do not have much desire to live there.
Father’s Day turned out to be a fantastic day. The kids were up early, they brought me their cards and gifts that my mom helped them put together. My W sent them money to get me something for the day. She also sent me a nice card that said, “the kids are blessed to have such a wonderful dad”.
I sent her the following TM:
M: Good Morning. Thank you for the father’s day card. That was sweet of you.
W: Good Morning! Enjoy your Father’s Day with the babies…. J
I followed that TM by asking about her mom, since I hadn’t talked to my W since last Monday. Her mom is in a rehabilitation center recovering from her hospital stay. Thankfully her health is improving. I surprisingly received a TM from the MIL wishing me a Happy Father’s Day. I told her thank you and let her know that I was glad she was doing better.
As I was in the middle of typing this, I received the following email from my W(my heart dropped):
Good Morning…
Can we talk tonight about the flight arrangements for D8 and S5? I’m planning on having a “Welcome Home/Birthday Parties” for them when they arrive on Saturday, July 16th and need to send out the invitations.
Thanks
Oh boy, here we go. I haven’t told her that I am getting ready to file to keep them here. I sent the message to my L to let her know what I have going on. I knew this was coming. It looks like I can’t hold her off much longer.
LITB, I am really glad for you. It was nice of your wife to have written that nice note.
LITB, I am really glad for you. It was nice of your wife to have written that nice note.
Thanks Myk.....her feelings are probably going to change once she finds out what I am up to. It is going to get ugly.
My L should have the docs for my signature later today and the W should be served by the end of the week. She is going to be fired up. Ah well.
Yup that could be likely. But the good thing here is you are ready for it. You are prepared. If she does lash out, dont lose your cool. Good luck!
After reviewing the docs from my L, I don't see how my W will be able to stand ever being associated with me.
Talk about airing some dirty laundry. From her EAs to her mother physically abusing her as a child to her mom being sick. This completely rips my heart out having to do this. This really sukks.
This isn't who I am, but for my kids I have to do it.
No matter how well I DB, I don't see much hope for my M right now.
I just received a TM from my W asking again if we can talk tonight about the kids going to NM on July 16th. I have been able to buy myself an extra week to get all of the legal paperwork worked out, however today she will find out. I replied letting her know we can talk.
I hate doing this to the woman I care and love for more than she will ever know. I feel horrible.
My kids are still under the impression that they are moving to NM. I'll have to explain to them that they are not and why. It is a delicate situation, especially for D8. She has asked me twice why mommy moved? I have been able to deflect the question, however I will have to prepare myself to answer her in the best way possible.
When I opened the attachments from my L last night, my heart dropped. There is absolutely no mercy in the way they are written. TBH, I hurt for my W having to do this.
My head is swimming. Ultimately I would like to R my M, however this might create an insurmountable obstacle.
I'm curious if any of you vets have been down a similar path and have been able to R?
Yea I too would like to know the vets feedback.
In my case my wife is still the primary caregiver. We agreed on more visitations for me. I am okay with the schedule now.
In your case, unless i understood wrong, you are asking for sole custody. Yup that legal language can be hard. I should know. I was at the receiving end of it.
I dunno, maybe you can talk to wife to see if she's willing to come back to your town. Then you would not have this issue.
See in my case my wife badly wanted to be close to her family.
I'd say, try to get more suggestions before you tell her.
See in my case my wife badly wanted to be close to her family.
My W moved to NM for the same reason. As of right now, she does not want to live up here. She told me point blank that I was going to make it ugly and keep her here. Believe me, I tried to work things out as peacefully as possible. I was even going to try to move to NM. It just isn't that easy. TBH, I have no desire to live in NM. I suppose that is besides the point right now.
I know what you mean man. I cannot move to my wife's town because of my job. But even if i could, i would not. My wife has 40+ members of her family there. It is like a circus.
The only reason i let her stay there is because i knew if she stays near her family, she's safer emotionally. It would also let my daughter get some sense of family.
I wish I had some great advice for you I could share, but I really have no idea.
This is a tough spot for you, hope it goes as well as possible.
I still believe a conversation with your W before she receives the paperwork could prove positive. I would suggest keeping it verbal rather than email, etc.
I know what you mean man. I cannot move to my wife's town because of my job. But even if i could, i would not. My wife has 40+ members of her family there. It is like a circus.
That made me laugh. I hear you on that. I like to live close to my family, but still far enough.
I wish I had some great advice for you I could share, but I really have no idea.
This is a tough spot for you, hope it goes as well as possible.
I still believe a conversation with your W before she receives the paperwork could prove positive. I would suggest keeping it verbal rather than email, etc.
Thanks Country. I agree with you on a verbal convo instead of an email. She is so unsuspecting to what is about to happen, I am devastated for her.
I just talked to my L, she reiterated that she feels that everything needs to be included and, "keep in mind that we did not say anything that is not true or that is exaggerated in the papers". I know she is right, but it doesn't make me feel any better.
I forgot to mention that the paperwork shows the mediation is to take place the morning of her 40th birthday. Talk about adding insult to injury. You can't draft up a better script for this crap.
Another thing for me to worry about. Now that my L is filing the injunctive order, my W will have to be served with the docs. Unfortunately since her mom has been in the hospital and now transferred to a rehabilitation center, she is usually not home. It's likely that she will have to be served at work.
Is there any way that your L could arrange to have your W go somewhere to sign the papers? As I told someone in a different post, for my 1st D, my L arranged it so that exW went into his office to sign so that she didn't have to be served.
Is there any way that your L could arrange to have your W go somewhere to sign the papers? As I told someone in a different post, for my 1st D, my L arranged it so that exW went into his office to sign so that she didn't have to be served.
I am not sure LP. I just sent my L an email letting her know about the possible challenges of getting my W served. I suppose things might clear up a bit after my convo with my W tonight and a response from my L.
I am trying to prepare myself for what is going to take place with our convo. Starsky gave me some great advice. I hope to start the convo out with normal talk and ease my way into the eye of the storm.
I mentioned that I no longer had fear of a lot of things, however I fear for my W's well being. It su@ks. The part of not rescuing is apparently a difficult one for me when it comes to detachment. I want to save her, however I know that I can't.
I have to keep reminding myself that this is for the best interest of my kids.
I mentioned that I no longer had fear of a lot of things, however I fear for my W's well being. It su@ks. The part of not rescuing is apparently a difficult one for me when it comes to detachment. I want to save her, however I know that I can't.
I always feel this way about my wife. I guess that is why i agreed to all that she wanted. Somehow i thought that she would suffer if i start asserting myself. But now when i look at it, that is not healthy. That is co-dependency.
So do the right thing. There's not much you can do if she gets hit emotionally. Remember that this was not your choice to get on this nasty path.
Remember that this was not your choice to get on this nasty path.
I think this is something to hang on to. You are not doing this just to be vindictive. However, unfortunately this just comes with the territory she's entered.
Thanks fellas. Well, it is nearly go time. Please say a prayer for me. This has to be one of the most difficult convos I will ever have.
Thanks JB and whoever else said a prayer. They must have been heard, because the convo went surprisingly well. I will try to recap what I can remember.
As I had said, I started the convo out with normal pleasantries. Asked how she was doing and asked how her mom was doing. W went on a bit about all the stuff she has to deal with.
Here is the convo how I remember:
W: Have you looked at flight arrangements for the kids or have you already booked them?
M: I honestly haven’t even looked into them.
W: Why?
M: I was hoping that we would have been able to work things out by now.
W: So are you keeping them? You can’t keep them up there with you.
M: Yes, I plan on keeping them up here.
W: You are going to make this ugly aren’t you? Have you even thought about what this is going to do to D8 and S5?
M: I didn’t want to do this. I have struggled with this decisions, however I feel good about my decision. Well, not necessarily good, but it is the right decision.
W: You are contradicting yourself.
M: It is a decision that I didn’t want to make, but given the choices that I have. It is the decision I had to make.
W: Do you really want to do this? Are you even thinking about D8 and S5? You know you are going to scar them for the rest of their lives?
M: Don’t try to blame me or guilt me. I am not the one that wanted out of the marriage.
W: I am not trying to guilt you. If you would have taken care of me all of these years. I felt like you didn’t care. You never said anything or asked anything when I’d come home at 4 in the morning.
M: Because I trusted you. If I would have asked you, then it would have been that I didn’t trust you. That is a terrible example.
W: You changed and I was unhappy. You were making decisions with your life and you weren’t communicating with me. (she’s talking about when I started going to church and trying to find myself. I had lost my dad early last year and I was reflecting on the way I was living.)
M: I was going thru a lot, but none of that matters to you. I wasn’t allowed to disconnect. Look, we’ve been over this. I am done apologizing. I have owned my part. I have worked to improve myself. It is time for me to quit living in the past and move forward.
W: This is not what we agreed to, why did you change your mind?
M: I was operating in fear before. I feared dragging the kids through a custody battle. I feared pushing you further away. I’m not afraid anymore.
I intended to sign the agreement, but “document company” kept screwing it up. Do you think that I paid $X amount to have them make the changes and then not sign it?
W: Don’t blame the “document company”.
M: I’m not blaming them, however they did buy me enough time to reconsider my decision.
W: What judge do you think is going to give you custody of the kids?
M: I don’t know. I guess we’ll find out.
W: Well if this is what you want.
M: This is not what I want. I want to work things out with you. I want to keep our family intact.
W: If I thought we could work things out, I wouldn’t have uprooted myself and moved away.
M: Well I think it is important that the kids have access to both of us. That is the reason I was willing to move to NM. I was sacrificing everything I have going here for everybody else. I’ve mentioned several times to you that there isn’t anything for me in NM. I feel like I’m wasting my breathe, because it falls on deaf ears.
W: I know there isn’t anything for you here.
M: I understand the things I did wrong now, however did you ever once say that you were unhappy and maybe we should go to counseling?(Okay, so I did go back to the past)
W: No, I tried to tell you that I was unhappy. I told you that the money didn’t matter and you didn’t spend enough time with us.
M: I don’t believe that justifies tearing our family apart. Those things were workable.
W: I can’t go back.
W: You know everybody warned me that you would do this, but I told them that you would never do it. I can’t believe that you are doing this.
M: I can careless what anybody thinks or says. I can’t believe that you did what you did. You aren’t the person that I married.
W: You aren’t the person that I married either.
M: Well this person is willing to look at himself, make changes and try to work things out.
W: I don’t know what to say.
M: You don’t have to say anything. You said enough last time we talked.
W: I don’t even remember what I said.
M: You said that you got to the point that you couldn’t stand to be around me.
W: I’m sorry I said that. I wasn’t thinking clearly that day. I had a lot going on.
M: I’m not looking for an apology. It told me where your heart is.
W: It makes me feel better to apologize.
W: So where do we go from here?
M: I don’t know.
W: What are you going to tell the kids? They are expecting to be coming to NM.
M: I will take care of it. I don’t know what I am going to tell them yet, but I don’t plan on throwing you under the bus.
W: I want to be part of the discussion.
M: That’s fine. I will probably tell them something this weekend.
W: Do I need to get an attorney?
M: Probably a good idea.
Silence
M: All I wanted was to be there for you. There’s nothing else to say. I am going to let you go.
W: Are you going to let me talk to the kids?
M: Of course, you are their mother. They love you. I would never get in the way of your relationship with them. I wouldn’t want to hurt them. I never intended to hurt you (that is true, but I had it in the front of my mind that she is going to get hurt when she gets served). I will have them call you when I get home.
W: Alright.
M: Bye
W: Bye
No yelling at all throughout the convo. She did raise her voice a little one time and I told her I would hang up if you started yelling. It turned out better than I anticipated. I was super stressed today.
We talked for nearly an hour, so there are parts I can’t remember right now. I will include them as they come to me.
Good deal, LITB. It sounds like the convo went as well or better than expected. Sounds like you held your ground well.
Good deal, LITB. It sounds like the convo went as well or better than expected. Sounds like you held your ground well.
It did go better than expected. Thanks again for the prayers JB.
Now we have to let the kids know that they are not going to NM. I will probably wait until the weekend to do it. The W wants to be included in the discussion, which I am not opposed to.
I'm thinking of telling them something to this effect:
"As of right now you guys will not be going to NM with mommy in a few weeks. Mommy and daddy have to work out a few things before you guys head down there. In the meantime, you guys will continue living with me. We will make plans for you guys to spend time with mommy in NM when we everything is worked out."
Simple and to the point without making anyone look like the bad guy. Please feel free to help me out.
On another note, yesterday I was feeling terrible about having her served at work. Today I just want to get her served so she can see what she is up against.
If I get an opportunity, I will share what is on the docs. It is not pretty at all. She may retract her statement about a judge not giving me favor in custody.
Thanks JB and whoever else said a prayer. They must have been heard, because the convo went surprisingly well. I will try to recap what I can remember.
As I had said, I started the convo out with normal pleasantries. Asked how she was doing and asked how her mom was doing. W went on a bit about all the stuff she has to deal with.
Here is the convo how I remember:
W: Have you looked at flight arrangements for the kids or have you already booked them?
M: I honestly haven’t even looked into them.
W: Why?
M: I was hoping that we would have been able to work things out by now.
W: So are you keeping them? You can’t keep them up there with you.
M: Yes, I plan on keeping them up here.
W: You are going to make this ugly aren’t you? Have you even thought about what this is going to do to D8 and S5?
M: I didn’t want to do this. I have struggled with this decisions, however I feel good about my decision. Well, not necessarily good, but it is the right decision.
W: You are contradicting yourself.
M: It is a decision that I didn’t want to make, but given the choices that I have. It is the decision I had to make.
W: Do you really want to do this? Are you even thinking about D8 and S5? You know you are going to scar them for the rest of their lives?
M: Don’t try to blame me or guilt me. I am not the one that wanted out of the marriage.
W: I am not trying to guilt you. If you would have taken care of me all of these years. I felt like you didn’t care. You never said anything or asked anything when I’d come home at 4 in the morning.
M: Because I trusted you. If I would have asked you, then it would have been that I didn’t trust you. That is a terrible example.
W: You changed and I was unhappy. You were making decisions with your life and you weren’t communicating with me. (she’s talking about when I started going to church and trying to find myself. I had lost my dad early last year and I was reflecting on the way I was living.)
M: I was going thru a lot, but none of that matters to you. I wasn’t allowed to disconnect. Look, we’ve been over this. I am done apologizing. I have owned my part. I have worked to improve myself. It is time for me to quit living in the past and move forward.
W: This is not what we agreed to, why did you change your mind?
M: I was operating in fear before. I feared dragging the kids through a custody battle. I feared pushing you further away. I’m not afraid anymore.
I intended to sign the agreement, but “document company” kept screwing it up. Do you think that I paid $X amount to have them make the changes and then not sign it?
W: Don’t blame the “document company”.
M: I’m not blaming them, however they did buy me enough time to reconsider my decision.
W: What judge do you think is going to give you custody of the kids?
M: I don’t know. I guess we’ll find out.
W: Well if this is what you want.
M: This is not what I want. I want to work things out with you. I want to keep our family intact.
W: If I thought we could work things out, I wouldn’t have uprooted myself and moved away.
M: Well I think it is important that the kids have access to both of us. That is the reason I was willing to move to NM. I was sacrificing everything I have going here for everybody else. I’ve mentioned several times to you that there isn’t anything for me in NM. I feel like I’m wasting my breathe, because it falls on deaf ears.
W: I know there isn’t anything for you here.
M: I understand the things I did wrong now, however did you ever once say that you were unhappy and maybe we should go to counseling?(Okay, so I did go back to the past)
W: No, I tried to tell you that I was unhappy. I told you that the money didn’t matter and you didn’t spend enough time with us.
M: I don’t believe that justifies tearing our family apart. Those things were workable.
W: I can’t go back.
W: You know everybody warned me that you would do this, but I told them that you would never do it. I can’t believe that you are doing this.
M: I can careless what anybody thinks or says. I can’t believe that you did what you did. You aren’t the person that I married.
W: You aren’t the person that I married either.
M: Well this person is willing to look at himself, make changes and try to work things out.
W: I don’t know what to say.
M: You don’t have to say anything. You said enough last time we talked.
W: I don’t even remember what I said.
M: You said that you got to the point that you couldn’t stand to be around me.
W: I’m sorry I said that. I wasn’t thinking clearly that day. I had a lot going on.
M: I’m not looking for an apology. It told me where your heart is.
W: It makes me feel better to apologize.
W: So where do we go from here?
M: I don’t know.
W: What are you going to tell the kids? They are expecting to be coming to NM.
M: I will take care of it. I don’t know what I am going to tell them yet, but I don’t plan on throwing you under the bus.
W: I want to be part of the discussion.
M: That’s fine. I will probably tell them something this weekend.
W: Do I need to get an attorney?
M: Probably a good idea.
Silence
M: All I wanted was to be there for you. There’s nothing else to say. I am going to let you go.
W: Are you going to let me talk to the kids?
M: Of course, you are their mother. They love you. I would never get in the way of your relationship with them. I wouldn’t want to hurt them. I never intended to hurt you (that is true, but I had it in the front of my mind that she is going to get hurt when she gets served). I will have them call you when I get home.
W: Alright.
M: Bye
W: Bye
No yelling at all throughout the convo. She did raise her voice a little one time and I told her I would hang up if you started yelling. It turned out better than I anticipated. I was super stressed today.
We talked for nearly an hour, so there are parts I can’t remember right now. I will include them as they come to me.
You handled that pretty well, LITB, but I fixed it for you.
Starsky
You handled that pretty well, LITB, but I fixed it for you.
Starsky
Should I have said farewell, instead of bye? I kid. I kid.
You are right. I should have cut it short. We were talking in circles.
I will post the text in the docs that she will be served with on my lunch break. As much as I wanted to work things out, I don't see that as a possibility. You will see what I mean shortly.
I was hoping that I could save the pdfs as word docs, then copy and paste the info on the agreement, but it didn't work. I will post it when I get the chance to type it up.
I just received an email from my L letting me know that she just dropped the papers off at the courthouse. We will have an answer some time tomorrow morning if the judge granted our request for custody pending the hearing.
I am a nervous wreck. Again, I need all the prayers that I can get for the request to go my way. This is a huge deal.
You have my prayers, LITB, that God will move to do whatever is best for your kids right now.
Starsky
Oh wow. Your convo went great LITB!!. It was a mature discussion. Seems like your wife expected this, but at the same time handled it in a dignified way. Kudos to both of you.
I wish i had one convo like this with my wife on some of the sensitive issues.
You can at-least cross of 1 big item off your list.
way to go!!
I'm on it, LITB. I will pray for His will to be done and for His purpose to be fulfilled.
You have my prayers, LITB, that God will move to do whatever is best for your kids right now.
Starsky
I'm on it, LITB. I will pray for His will to be done and for His purpose to be fulfilled.
I appreciate the prayers more than you know. I like how you both are praying for the kids and "his will", because this isn't about me. It is what is best for the kids. That's all I can hope for.
I will give an update when I hear something. I feel better this morning. I'm not as nervous as I was yesterday.
Oh wow. Your convo went great LITB!!. It was a mature discussion. Seems like your wife expected this, but at the same time handled it in a dignified way. Kudos to both of you.
I wish i had one convo like this with my wife on some of the sensitive issues.
You can at-least cross of 1 big item off your list.
way to go!!
The convo did go well Myk. That being said, I feel like I'm at the point of accepting that my M cannot be saved.
It has to do with me having to paint my W and her mom in a terrible light to keep my kids. It is something that was very difficult to do. Something that a person shouldn't have to do. Ultimately, it is for the best interest of my children.
I'm at peace with it for now.
That being said, I feel like I'm at the point of accepting that my M cannot be saved
We never know what the future holds for us. The only thing you can do is hope and do your best. Leave the rest to a higher power.
You need to chalk your convo with your wife as a lil positive. Seems like there were no bad feelings.
As both of you keep doing these things, love might blossom again. who knows.
However you have to understand. The D might go through. But that's okay. It is just paper. If love blossoms and you guys decide to get back again, then re-marry. Take new vows. Then both of you can look at this event as a new beginning and start fresh. Your marriage can be stronger than before.
Something like 20% of divorced couples re-marry, and most report that their marriage is better than it ever was before.
You never know what will happen.
Starsky
I'd like to think that there is a possibility of a R in the future and I appreciate the encouragement. However if she is unable to forgive me for being absent emotionally from her, I don't see how she will forgive for what is in the docs that she will be served. I still haven't heard anything back from my L yet.
Here is what is in the injunction that was filed yesterday:
On March 25, 2011 W moved to NM from SM County with her mother. She left the children with me here in SM county. I had hoped that we would not be getting a divorce when she left. However, it has become obvious that a divorce is what is going to happen. Since the children have been living with me and my mother, since March 25, 2011, I have come to realize that it is in their best interest to remain in my custody as their primary parent.
W had told me, on more than one occasion, that she was going to “pack up and move and leave D8” with me. However, she ended up moving and leaving both children with me.
The children are doing so well and are very happy living here with me and my mother, who does not work at all.
During our marriage, W had an “emotional affair” with douchebag #1 of NM. She had been planning on moving with him with our children over this last Christmas break, although he is married and lives with his W and children. They had planned on expanding their R to a PA relationship.
W’s mother had been living with us since August, 2010. I had moved her here from Las Vegas so that she could be near us and work here. However, she never looked for work, just watched television all day, eat and never contribute towards the running of the household. W was not working at the time either. I was the sole support of the family.
At the end of January, 2011, W went to Las Vegas on the pretext of telling her family that we were getting a divorce. She said she was going to be staying with her sister. She lied about that and I only learned about it afterwards. She may have been meeting someone there for an affair.
In February of this year, W had another “emotional affair” with douchebag #2, a high school sweetheart. She had told me that she made contact with him in September, 2010, however.
My mother is willing to stay on living here with us and helping me with the children. My work schedule is very flexible and I am able to be on my way home from work by 2:00 p.m. This allows me to pick up D8 and S5 from school. W’s job requires her to travel and attend social events in the evening hours. She does not get off of work, on her regular schedule, until 5:00. Also, her mother is her primary source of help with the children. However, she has been hospitalized twice in less than a year with meningitis. In fact, she is currently hospitalized and does not have health insurance. She will have to go back to work. My mother does not work.
The children, my mother and I attend church on a regular basis and we have been doing so for over a year. I volunteer in the children’s church learning program called AWANA when I take the children there. They really enjoy going to church and participating in AWANA.
W has claimed in the past that I was an absent father. But, she forgets the times that I took the children to the doctor appointments, practices, games, events, picked them up from day care and school. She also forgets that I took care of the children when she went to Florida without us to spend time with her friends or when she went to NM without us for her 20 year reunion.
W’s parents divorced when she was 8 years old. After that, her own mother physically abused her. As a result, W has had her own issues and even expressed to me several times that she was afraid to become a parent because she was afraid she would be like her mother. She told me that right before we met, she had been going to counseling to deal with her childhood trauma and issues as a result of that trauma.
I feel that perhaps it is that childhood trauma that has caused W to not stay put, so to speak, as the mother of the children, taking off to spend time with friends in Florida and to go to a reunion in NM and now to move in March of this year to NM, leaving the children behind with me, as their sole parent and care giver and provider.
I am the one that has been a consistent parent and I think I have been a very good dad for the children. It is W that has left them and moved on with her life. I tried to work things out with W and consistently made my feelings known to her ever since she announced that she wanted a divorce in November, 2010. That wasn’t enough for her and, as I said, she has moved on, leaving the children with me, thinking that I can just ship them to her like a piece of furniture, when they are well settled her in California with me and my mother. They have friends here now and are of such a young ages that I feel that bouncing them around will simply not be good for them. Otherwise, they will end up with their own set of issues as they grow up, as a result. They don’t deserved that. They deserve and need stability and consistency in a parent and that is what they are getting from me here in California, as their full time parent.
I am asking the Court issue orders pending the hearing that the children remain in California. Otherwise, I am fearful that they will never be returned to me in California. I really don’t know how W will react based on her past of having come from a family of divorce and having been physically abused and with her own set of issues that have required her to be in counseling (which I think is good for her, she needs to work on her issues, for herself and for her children).
I only want what is best for the children and I believe that that is being in m primary custody and care.
This should give you a clearer picture of my feelings of acceptance that my M is over.
I do think my chances of being the primary parent are better than she thinks.
LITB, Yup, i can see why you feel that M might be over.
The key here as you said is forgiveness.
In life we dont achieve much by holding on to past hurts. If your wife realizes that, even after this injunction and decides to start life fresh with you and totally let go of the past, then yes, both of you can build a better future together.
I hear what you're saying MyK.
Right now we are entering a whole new phase in my sitch. I really have no reason to talk to my W with the exception about our kids. There will be no more small talk, no R talk and absolutely no pursuing. I'm okay with it. My focus will continue to be completely on the kids and myself. I think that we will go cherry picking on Saturday. Something that I haven't done since I was a kid and something my kids haven't experienced. I'm looking forward to it.
I haven't heard back if a decision has been made on the injunction. I think that will be a good time to start a new thread.
LITB
I am sorry to hear of this. I have read up but haven’t had a chance to post. Work.
Hang in there man it does get better.
I will be back tonight
Keep being there for the kids. At the end of the day it is all about them.
LITB, those are some hard hitting words.
BUT!
I do believe those words did not come from anger.
Those words came to protect your kids.
I can't always offer good advice.
But I am reading your sitch.
I do think about it, and it does give me good insight for mine.
So, just want to let you know. You have support here, and at the same time your posts are helping others.
Thinking of you man.
I'd like to think that there is a possibility of a R in the future and I appreciate the encouragement. However if she is unable to forgive me for being absent emotionally from her, I don't see how she will forgive for what is in the docs that she will be served. I still haven't heard anything back from my L yet.
Here is what is in the injunction that was filed yesterday:
On March 25, 2011 W moved to NM from SM County with her mother. She left the children with me here in SM county. I had hoped that we would not be getting a divorce when she left. However, it has become obvious that a divorce is what is going to happen. Since the children have been living with me and my mother, since March 25, 2011, I have come to realize that it is in their best interest to remain in my custody as their primary parent.
W had told me, on more than one occasion, that she was going to “pack up and move and leave D8” with me. However, she ended up moving and leaving both children with me.
The children are doing so well and are very happy living here with me and my mother, who does not work at all.
During our marriage, W had an “emotional affair” with douchebag #1 of NM. She had been planning on moving with him with our children over this last Christmas break, although he is married and lives with his W and children. They had planned on expanding their R to a PA relationship.
W’s mother had been living with us since August, 2010. I had moved her here from Las Vegas so that she could be near us and work here. However, she never looked for work, just watched television all day, eat and never contribute towards the running of the household. W was not working at the time either. I was the sole support of the family.
At the end of January, 2011, W went to Las Vegas on the pretext of telling her family that we were getting a divorce. She said she was going to be staying with her sister. She lied about that and I only learned about it afterwards. She may have been meeting someone there for an affair.
In February of this year, W had another “emotional affair” with douchebag #2, a high school sweetheart. She had told me that she made contact with him in September, 2010, however.
My mother is willing to stay on living here with us and helping me with the children. My work schedule is very flexible and I am able to be on my way home from work by 2:00 p.m. This allows me to pick up D8 and S5 from school. W’s job requires her to travel and attend social events in the evening hours. She does not get off of work, on her regular schedule, until 5:00. Also, her mother is her primary source of help with the children. However, she has been hospitalized twice in less than a year with meningitis. In fact, she is currently hospitalized and does not have health insurance. She will have to go back to work. My mother does not work.
The children, my mother and I attend church on a regular basis and we have been doing so for over a year. I volunteer in the children’s church learning program called AWANA when I take the children there. They really enjoy going to church and participating in AWANA.
W has claimed in the past that I was an absent father. But, she forgets the times that I took the children to the doctor appointments, practices, games, events, picked them up from day care and school. She also forgets that I took care of the children when she went to Florida without us to spend time with her friends or when she went to NM without us for her 20 year reunion.
W’s parents divorced when she was 8 years old. After that, her own mother physically abused her. As a result, W has had her own issues and even expressed to me several times that she was afraid to become a parent because she was afraid she would be like her mother. She told me that right before we met, she had been going to counseling to deal with her childhood trauma and issues as a result of that trauma.
I feel that perhaps it is that childhood trauma that has caused W to not stay put, so to speak, as the mother of the children, taking off to spend time with friends in Florida and to go to a reunion in NM and now to move in March of this year to NM, leaving the children behind with me, as their sole parent and care giver and provider.
I am the one that has been a consistent parent and I think I have been a very good dad for the children. It is W that has left them and moved on with her life. I tried to work things out with W and consistently made my feelings known to her ever since she announced that she wanted a divorce in November, 2010. That wasn’t enough for her and, as I said, she has moved on, leaving the children with me, thinking that I can just ship them to her like a piece of furniture, when they are well settled her in California with me and my mother. They have friends here now and are of such a young ages that I feel that bouncing them around will simply not be good for them. Otherwise, they will end up with their own set of issues as they grow up, as a result. They don’t deserved that. They deserve and need stability and consistency in a parent and that is what they are getting from me here in California, as their full time parent.
I am asking the Court issue orders pending the hearing that the children remain in California. Otherwise, I am fearful that they will never be returned to me in California. I really don’t know how W will react based on her past of having come from a family of divorce and having been physically abused and with her own set of issues that have required her to be in counseling (which I think is good for her, she needs to work on her issues, for herself and for her children).
I only want what is best for the children and I believe that that is being in m primary custody and care.
This should give you a clearer picture of my feelings of acceptance that my M is over.
I do think my chances of being the primary parent are better than she thinks.
Did you already send this? I hope not. SO MUCH of this is not legally needed. There's no way that MIL can cope with it except to hate you.
All you had to say was "MIL relocated to our area and joined our home temporarily, while she was to find work. However as of, 'x' 2010, I continued to be the sole supporter of..." See that makes the point without describing in detail her laziness PLUS any work she did at all, will undermine your credibility in the eyes of her or your w or the kids, etc. It's embarrassing and humiliating even if it's all true...
*(I think your mil was depressed, fwiw. And on that note, I just read that 'Depression is often just feeling purposeless"....and I think there's validity to that.)
If this is a done deal, then dang...ohhhh.....(OUCH) but, so be it, if it's done...
(
next time, can you post it first and get feedback before you send it??)
But to re-cap what we KNOW-
She did leave, she did not take the kids, and those are facts she cannot argue.
Whatever else happened in the R, upheaval is lousy for kids. So is a parent leaving.
The kids miss her & fear she has abandoned them. So you should expect them to resist this.
So make sure they know what is NOT going to change in their lives.
My MC told me that, btw. Here's what else he said
re the kids....
-- emphasize what will remain the same in their lives, such as their school, their friends, church, home, etc. No moving is a good thing.
Emphasize when and how they will see the other parent.
They'll want some
details so you have to be ready for that. For now, the L's will have to deal with that but you can theorize examples.
E.g., "children, there are direct flights there" and show them a map, and or,
"I will accompany you there & back", and or
"every 4 weeks your mom will come here PLUS, x'"
OR "you will go see her for x weeks in the summer, so you get two places to explore"
While you can emphasize the "upsides" of having two locations (maybe Disneyworld is near you, or they'll have a movie theater in one place and a pool in the other, etc.) be honest about what they are losing/fearing too.
Validate their fears (reassure them of the
solution to the fears. And for the things not "fixable", like missing mommy, just comfort them.
If they fear that mom will never come back to see them, you state how that's not true, and or
how you will make sure they DO see her, etc. Brag about how much Mommy already misses them and if they knew how much, they'd be amazed, but MIL had problems and she's the only one to help MIl whereas YOU can care for the kids....while she's helping her mother....
(I say this ^^^ assuming there's some truth to it, but don't say it if it's a lie).
If they fear things like they'll never have a dog, or something like that, explain in detail how they WILL...if it's true.
(Make no promise you aren't going to keep.)Validate their sense of loss but remind them that lots of families have a parent somewhere else and they still love each other, like the soldiers in Afghanistan, including some moms, who are FAR far away and not able to drive or fly to see each other. They still love each other. But the children have to do things for the absent parent, like write or call.
Plan holidays in detail when you can. Meaning,
you don't have to decide now, but inform them that they WILL see their mom on holidays and SOME of the traditions will remain, and some will be invented...
(After h left the first Christmas he returned for 3 days and left again. So I took the kids to a skiing place on the 27th for 4 days & rented a cabin w/DVDs and a hot tub in the snow. Getting there I got lost and in a blizzard and was scared I had made a huge mistake. Missed h like crazy then!!
But we got there with the help of son19, and chains on the tires...got there and then,
We really had a blast. Best time in months since no h around to cause tension AND I was DBing and being present for the kids. In the moment, etc. So The next year we went again,
this time with H, and now d13 says "I'm glad we ALWAYS go skiing after Christmas"....(wth?
)
In some ways, creating "new traditions" is very easy with kids.
Get Skype! Have daily contact with each parent, even if it's about the cute boy next to her, or the baseball game, etc. Discuss mundane details.
Be prepared for some grief comments & sad questions. When my youngest would ask if we were divorcing or words like that
I'd say "I sure hope not, b/c I've loved your dad for a long time",
or "Your dad's the love of my life so we are trying hard to work things out" and finally, sometimes to THEM, I'd say
"your happiness is the most important thing to me, so I'm going to do what I believe will ultimately make you happiest"....and they seemed comforted by that. Esp the youngest one. She literally watched me tell her this, then smiled, rolled over and went to sleep.
At a basketball game yesterday with d13, I sat next to the father of d's best friend's. He is newly divorced. All I know is that the family is split, with d's friend & her dad living together, while 2 siblings are with the mom. Friend lives with her dad "b/c none of the other kids would, and she felt sorry for her dad"....
So the dad is there with the younger sister, age 6, watching the game.
I noticed the new teams' name is "FAMILY"...
I learn that is indeed their name &I say "that's unusual".
The 6 y/o girl said "You know what's sad? It's sad that our "FAMILY" is broken now...we have to live in two places b/c our family is broken...""
(Ouch)
I said, "oh but you are still a family, and your parents and brother/sister still love you, even if you live in 2 places"...
and she said "Yeah but I'm still real sad". I saw out of the corner of my eye, the dad looking at the wall. God...
If I'd seen it in a movie I would not have believed how openly wounded she is. Why haven't the parents reassured her?
Worse, the poor oblivious dad brought a 6 y/o girl to a basketball game without a book, something to color on, or anything to do at all. She was supposed to watch a game she doesn't understand and just sit there...so of course she fidgets and the dad gets upset and it's all so raw.
Sorry L, I digress. That's a picture of
a future you can avoid by being the man I think you are.Good luck, keep the conversations shorter with your w. Repeat yourself often.
Seriously.
You might want to
Say "I'm doing what I think is best for the kids" rather than "I'm not afraid anymore". Make it your new mantra.
And
I know why you are doing this and in the long run, it'll pay off.
But it's going to be a rough damn ride for the next 6 months.
I think come January you might get a breather (depending on what stage the divorce is in legally).
If things settle down by then, I'd aim for that time for the kids to begin to adapt to their new lives.
Set a timeline goal for yourself.
We're all rooting for you and your kids and yes, your wife too. May you find some peace and
may this terrible experience bring you all closer to your best selves,
and to Him above.
((( )))
Thanks 2step, CS and 25 for dropping in.
25, I have to admit that I cried for the first time in a long time as I was reading your post. I don't want to hurt my W or my MIL. This is definitely the most hurtful thing that I have ever done knowing that it is going to devastate someone. Especially someone that I love.
The injunctive order was filed with the court yesterday and we are awaiting the ruling from the judge. I suspect that once a decision is made, then the paperwork will be sent to NM to be served to my W. Your post has me contemplating if I should warn her about it. Or do I let things play out and let the chips fall where they may? I can use some input with this for sure.
I don’t know if my W has even retained an attorney or if she thinks that I am bluffing. I am genuinely concerned for both of them.
What you said about the MIL being depressed is probably true. She has been through a lot in her life and she is a bitter woman. At the beginning of my sitch, we were sitting at the dinner table (W, MIL and I) and I said that you can’t move forward if you are unable to forgive. The MIL said point blank without skipping a beat, “sometimes you just can’t forgive”. I was speechless. I even brought this up to my W in a separate convo. The W told me to take anything the MIL says with a grain of salt, because she has a negative energy about her.
You gave me so much to chew on in regards to protecting the kids and helping them with their fears, etc. So far, I feel that they have been shielded from the craziness really well. We haven’t told them that mommy and daddy are no longer together or that we are getting a D. We told them that mommy is moving to NM and that they will have two homes. That they will be going to school in NM and staying with daddy during all of their breaks. This was in Feb/March. They were excited about it. That was their initial reaction. Oh, our S5 did cry because he was going to miss his best friend.
They are under the impression that they will be moving to NM in 3 weeks. As my W calls to talk to them every day, she was telling them how many more days/weeks before they move. All the while I was deciding to fight to keep them here with me.
Now, we are now getting into the nastiness of a D and things will get much more challenging. I am going to read your post over and over again to help me be the best dad possible. I am sure that I will have questions as things clear up. There is plenty of great advice in there that I will use.
Thanks again for chiming in.
LITB
I am sorry to hear of this. I have read up but haven’t had a chance to post. Work.
Hang in there man it does get better.
I will be back tonight
Keep being there for the kids. At the end of the day it is all about them.
No worries 2step. I appreciate that you have taken the time to stop by to offer advice or words of encouragement throughout my sitch.
Sometimes we get so deep into our own mess that it is difficult to keep up with others and offer any advice. That’s where I am right now. I have been keeping up with your sitch, “final chapter” thread and many others, but I haven’t had much to add. The first post in that thread is a helluva post 2step. You will flourish my friend.
LITB, those are some hard hitting words.
BUT!
I do believe those words did not come from anger.
Those words came to protect your kids.
I can't always offer good advice.
But I am reading your sitch.
I do think about it, and it does give me good insight for mine.
So, just want to let you know. You have support here, and at the same time your posts are helping others.
Thinking of you man.
Those are some hard hitting words. They hurt me when I first opened the attachment. My heart hit the floor and I had to take some time to myself. I wish that I would have posted them before we filed them with the court as 25 suggested. TBH, it was overwhelming.
You are right, they certainly did not come from a place of anger. I gave my L notes that I thought would help my case. I was oblivious to how they would be used. I did let my L know that they were brutal, but she felt like they had to be in there. Who am I to argue with someone that this is their profession?
Thanks for your support CS. Likewise, you have my support and if my sitch helps anyone, I am more than happy to share.
before I really reply, let me get clear
has your letter with that description included, already been sent or not?
In short, is it too late to change anything now?
If it's Not too late, let's get cracking at re writing it.
Your L is reviewing it?
If so, he or she ought to be editing it so the least harm possible is done.
I'm not trying to bang you over the head but the letter was unecessarily critical in the characterizations and historic details and It's so inflammatory.
Get ready LB,
IF I were you, I'd expect an amazingly different version of your marriage to be
hurled back at you in the Legal response. It's tough to see it in writing, as you know.
If you try to take a mother's child from her,
MOST mothers will do what they need to do to get their kids...
they'll waive child support, they'll live in squalor, they'll protect the dirtbag IF it means she gets her kids...
and they'll lie to get their kids too. And she has MIL, her "witness" to back her up.
But then again, w was willing to leave the kids and not tell them what was going on, which was risky.
(SIGH)...
When I went to file for div, my L suggested only filing for a sep, b/c she felt there was hope in our sitch (she was a real blessing)
and she also suggested I call h to ask where he preferred being served; work or "home". But I asked her to do that and so she did. He waived service so no one had to present the papers to him; all he did was sign a certified letter that says "I get it. She filed" and that way no one has to embarrass them in their home with the kids around OR at their jobs.
I'd be disappointed if your L lets that letter fly as is. But anyhow...
let us know if it's a done deal or not.
I think that letter will backfire on you pretty badly when a judge reads it. I cant believe a lawyer wrote this. Tons of character assasination and no documentation of facts.
So she went on a trip to NV for some unstated duration. So what. What does this have to do with your children. Have you never been out of town? Do you thing the judge has never been out of town?
And your MIL abused your wife? How? When? Where is the evidence. MIL and W will tell the judge you are lying and the judge will believe them, not you. This will make you look terrible.
You allege that your W had EAs. How does this affect your children again? You are in a no fault state, the judge doesnt want to be bothered with this.
You need to state only what you can prove, and it needs to be only about the well-being of your children. Any other allegations you make will come back to bite you. Making this personal and ugly will ultimately only benefit the lawyers and your wife.
Take a look at the dadsdivorce website where there are a lot of guys who know how to go about trying to secure their custody rights and I think you will see what a collosal mistake you are about to make. Focus on your kids. Focus on their stability and well being. Prove that you are the best parent, not the bitter husband.
before I really reply, let me get clear
has your letter with that description included, already been sent or not?
It has been filed with the court, but it has not been sent to my W.
In short, is it too late to change anything now?
I do not know if it can be changed since it has already been filed.
If it's Not too late, let's get cracking at re writing it.
Your L is reviewing it?
My L is the person who drafted the injunctive order with the notes that I provided to her. I read it, however we did not make any changes as she felt that it all needed to be said.
If so, he or she ought to be editing it so the least harm possible is done.[/b]
You know, my intuition told me it was too much, however I decided to go with my L's advice.
I'm not trying to bang you over the head but the letter was unecessarily critical in the characterizations and historic details and It's so inflammatory.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I hate the letter. I hate everything about it. It will put the final nail in my M.
Get ready LB,
IF I were you, I'd expect an amazingly different version of your marriage to be
hurled back at you in the Legal response. It's tough to see it in writing, as you know.
If you try to take a mother's child from her,
MOST mothers will do what they need to do to get their kids...
they'll waive child support, they'll live in squalor, they'll protect the dirtbag IF it means she gets her kids...
and they'll lie to get their kids too. And she has MIL, her "witness" to back her up.
But then again, w was willing to leave the kids and not tell them what was going on, which was risky. Everyone seems to feel that this is the biggest mistake she made in regards to the kids despite that we had a tentative agreement that I did not sign in place. The agreement was that they were to move to NM on July 16.Will it be enough for me to keep the kids, who knows?
(SIGH)...
When I went to file for div, my L suggested only filing for a sep, b/c she felt there was hope in our sitch (she was a real blessing)
and she also suggested I call h to ask where he preferred being served; work or "home". But I asked her to do that and so she did. He waived service so no one had to present the papers to him; all he did was sign a certified letter that says "I get it. She filed" and that way no one has to embarrass them in their home with the kids around OR at their jobs.
I can at least save her some humiliation by going this route. I have sent my L a couple of emails about getting the W served and that I don’t want to have it done at her work. We haven't worked out those details. I gather that once the decision comes down from the judge on the order, then the W will get served.
I'd be disappointed if your L lets that letter fly as is. But anyhow...
Unfortunately it has already left the flight deck. Hopefully it can return before it lands at its final destination.
let us know if it's a done deal or not.
I will have to ask my L if it can be revised. Since it is filed and we are awaiting the ruling, I don’t know if it can be.
I do expect an amazingly different version of our M. She has already been rewriting the history to the many people she has told, including several of her family members that did not buy it. It was her aunt who told me where she was staying while she was in Vegas. That being said, I am of the mindset that her family will side with her despite what they do not believe to be true.
I wish that I would have been able to post the verbiage before it was filed. I received it Monday night, had some correspondence with my L on Tuesday, signed it Tuesday and then filed it on Wednesday. We may hear an answer back today. Perhaps you know if something that has already been filed be amended after it has been ruled on? I will ask my L.
There is a lot going on with this. I hope for the best, but definitely expect the worst.
NOTE: DbMod, I will start a new thread today. I don't want to start it in the middle of these exchanges. If it has to be closed, I understand. Thank you
I really have no reason to talk to my W with the exception about our kids. There will be no more small talk, no R talk and absolutely no pursuing
That is exactly where we are right now. Wife has no reason to call at all and she does not. Somehow i am still hanging to that proverbial 'rope'. Gotta let it go sometime.
I think that letter will backfire on you pretty badly when a judge reads it. I cant believe a lawyer wrote this. Tons of character assasination and no documentation of facts.
So she went on a trip to NV for some unstated duration. So what. What does this have to do with your children. Have you never been out of town? Do you thing the judge has never been out of town?
And your MIL abused your wife? How? When? Where is the evidence. MIL and W will tell the judge you are lying and the judge will believe them, not you. This will make you look terrible.
You allege that your W had EAs. How does this affect your children again? You are in a no fault state, the judge doesnt want to be bothered with this.
You need to state only what you can prove, and it needs to be only about the well-being of your children. Any other allegations you make will come back to bite you. Making this personal and ugly will ultimately only benefit the lawyers and your wife.
Take a look at the dadsdivorce website where there are a lot of guys who know how to go about trying to secure their custody rights and I think you will see what a collosal mistake you are about to make. Focus on your kids. Focus on their stability and well being. Prove that you are the best parent, not the bitter husband.
Damn, this makes my head hurt. I just wanted to keep my family intact. I didn't and don't want to go down this road. I have been the best parent throughout this ordeal and have shielded the kids from the craziness.
I am not bitter, but the letter does paint me as so. I get it.
I gave my L the notes because I thought they might help me with my case. My intent was not to try to blast my W out of the water with it. I didn't know how they would be used and I went with her advice.
I will have to check that website out. I'm curious why you only have 9 post when you can share some valuable insight like you did with that post?
LITB,
Ask your attorney if your filing can be amended. It's either a "yes" or a "no"; there's no use crying over spilled milk.
Starsky
LITB,
Ask your attorney if your filing can be amended. It's either a "yes" or a "no"; there's no use crying over spilled milk.
Starsky
I will ask her. You know Starsky, you have been dropping in on my sitch from the beginning and you have set me me straight several times. I truly appreciate it.
Sorry for trying to scare you straight. You are at the very beginning of a very long process and no one goes through this without making a lot of mistakes so dont sweat it too much. You wont make or break your case with the initial filing. And feelings will get hurt in this process no matter what you do.
However, from this point forward you need to make sure your focus is on demonstration and
documentation that you are a great dad and your kids will be best served by stability with you. Put your wife in the position where she has to prove that it is in the best interest of the kids to take them away from you and moved them out of state with her. You are being a good, honorable dad - you dont want to keep the kids away from their mom, but you cannot be forced to give up your kids or follow their mom around from state to state.
You are in a strong position. The status quo is the kids are with you. The burden of proof is on her to convince a judge that he should change this. Most judges dont like to change things that arent broke.
And I dont post much on divorce busting because any advice I have will probably just get you divorced!
I promise this is the last thing I'll say about the letter unless it can be changed.
The EAs are irrelevant in probably every state and in most states, if actual adultery occurred which was not involving the kids, that is irrelevant to custody.
The comments about the MIL are all irrelevant as to her laziness, and make YOU look bad in several ways, esp when they mention her health problems. As for the abuse, if you feared that MIL was going to hurt your kids, why the hell did you leave her with your kids?
Plus she and your w will deny it.
There is virtually NO proof of any of your claims except for her leaving you guys....
and now she'll say you agreed she was to go help her mother and when the mother got better, THEN the kids were to join her
but you got all vindictive and filed...
That's the revision coming your way, without her adding in some jabs of her own.
Be prepared LB...and just so I know, how'd you choose the L?
Did you say to her that you felt it was too strongly worded? (And mostly not admissible or provable...)
If none of it can be changed, and IF your w calls you,
maybe you can blame the L...IDK
it's a hard spot to come back from. I wouldn't blame you if you blamed the L...
heck, I'm bummed she sent it b/c unless there's some judge who hates NM,
she should've known better. IT's our job as L's to weed out this type of stuff.
OKAY, enough...no point in crying over spilled milk BUT
find out about any amendments possible asap
I promise this is the last thing I'll say about the letter unless it can be changed.
I just sent my L an email stating my concerns and asking if the document can be amended.
The EAs are irrelevant in probably every state and in most states, if actual adultery occurred which was not involving the kids, that is irrelevant to custody.
My L’s take is that this is an exhibit of my W’s irrational behavior. I understand it is irrelevant to custody. Just stating what I gather as to the reason it was included.
The comments about the MIL are all irrelevant as to her laziness, and make YOU look bad in several ways, esp when they mention her health problems. As for the abuse, if you feared that MIL was going to hurt your kids, why the hell did you leave her with your kids?
I did not and do not fear that my MIL will hurt my kids. I fear that my W may follow the same pattern that my MIL did under similar circumstances.
Plus she and your w will deny it.
There is virtually NO proof of any of your claims except for her leaving you guys....
and now she'll say you agreed she was to go help her mother and when the mother got better, THEN the kids were to join her
The MIL got sick after they moved to NM.
She had health issues prior to her moving here with us, however she had recovered and was healthy while she lived here. She probably was depressed as you said, but physically healthy.
but you got all vindictive and filed...
I suppose that I could have taken more time and it will be thrown back at me as vindictive. Unfortunately I didn’t take as much time as I should have. I felt that I needed to file quickly to protect myself before she filed. This may come back to bite with the docs in their current context.
That's the revision coming your way, without her adding in some jabs of her own.
Be prepared LB...and just so I know, how'd you choose the L?
I read several reviews on Yelp and consulted with her, along with a different L. After the consultation, I felt that she was the right L for me. I guess we will see one way or the other.
Did you say to her that you felt it was too strongly worded? (And mostly not admissible or provable...)
All I said was that it was a bit much. Nothing else. Her reply was that she felt that it all needed to be said. I took her advice.
If none of it can be changed, and IF your w calls you,
maybe you can blame the L...IDK
it's a hard spot to come back from. I wouldn't blame you if you blamed the L...
It seems to me I'm in a lose/lose sitch here. I can blame the L, but ultimately I am the one airing the dirty laundry. I'll see where I am when the SH!T breaks the fan. I hope not to be near it. I'll probably be right under it.
heck, I'm bummed she sent it b/c unless there's some judge who hates NM,
she should've known better. IT's our job as L's to weed out this type of stuff.
OKAY, enough...no point in crying over spilled milk BUT
find out about any amendments possible asap
I already sent an email asking the question.
I did let my L know that they were brutal, but she felt like they had to be in there. Who am I to argue with someone that this is their profession?
There are a lot of bad attorneys out the LB. I hope that you have done your homework in finding this one.
I concur with what 25 said... most of that letter was just unnecessary.
It's going to be hard to reverse... if not impossible.
I'd suggest asking your attorney if you can look at any future letter prior to filing or mailing.
Then, I'd suggest posting them here just to get some feedback.
You can't react out of anger LB... Your D, assuming it happens, does not HAVE to be nasty. Unfortunately though, it is letters like this one that can send things in that direction.
BITS
Denver
Sorry for trying to scare you straight. You are at the very beginning of a very long process and no one goes through this without making a lot of mistakes so dont sweat it too much. You wont make or break your case with the initial filing. And feelings will get hurt in this process no matter what you do.
However, from this point forward you need to make sure your focus is on demonstration and
documentation that you are a great dad and your kids will be best served by stability with you. Put your wife in the position where she has to prove that it is in the best interest of the kids to take them away from you and moved them out of state with her. You are being a good, honorable dad - you dont want to keep the kids away from their mom, but you cannot be forced to give up your kids or follow their mom around from state to state.
You are in a strong position. The status quo is the kids are with you. The burden of proof is on her to convince a judge that he should change this. Most judges dont like to change things that arent broke.
And I dont post much on divorce busting because any advice I have will probably just get you divorced!
I appreciate it fade. That last comment made me laugh. I needed that.
I'd suggest asking your attorney if you can look at any future letter prior to filing or mailing.
Then, I'd suggest posting them here just to get some feedback
I will definitely be posting any letters here in the future to get feedback. A very difficult lesson learned. Hopefully not a costly one.
I'd suggest asking your attorney if you can look at any future letter prior to filing or mailing.
Then, I'd suggest posting them here just to get some feedback
I will definitely be posting any letters here in the future to get feedback. A very difficult lesson learned. Hopefully not a costly one.
You know what? I think that I would politely warn W that it is coming and blame the attorney.
I would NOT back off of any of the substance of the letter. But I would tell her that you had not wanted all of the dirty laundry put in the court record unless necessary and that you don't think that it was necessary at this point.
I would do this bc it is going to p!ss her off to no end LB. If she hasn't retained counsel yet, there is a good chance that she will now.
Maybe you can put her at ease somewhat by giving her a heads up.
BITS
Denver
OH... and don't do it in writing. Or if you do, post it here before sending.
JMO.
You know what? I think that I would politely warn W that it is coming and blame the attorney.
I would NOT back off of any of the substance of the letter. But I would tell her that you had not wanted all of the dirty laundry put in the court record unless necessary and that you don't think that it was necessary at this point.
I would do this bc it is going to p!ss her off to no end LB. If she hasn't retained counsel yet, there is a good chance that she will now.
Maybe you can put her at ease somewhat by giving her a heads up.
BITS
Denver
Thank you for this advice Denver. This will help me out a great deal. I don't plan on doing anything on writing.
LITB,
Ask your attorney if your filing can be amended. It's either a "yes" or a "no"; there's no use crying over spilled milk.
Starsky
I will ask her. You know Starsky, you have been dropping in on my sitch from the beginning and you have set me me straight several times. I truly appreciate it.
You're very welcome, LITB. It's why we're all here.
Starsky
Sorry for trying to scare you straight. You are at the very beginning of a very long process and no one goes through this without making a lot of mistakes so dont sweat it too much. You wont make or break your case with the initial filing. And feelings will get hurt in this process no matter what you do.
However, from this point forward you need to make sure your focus is on demonstration and documentation that you are a great dad and your kids will be best served by stability with you. Put your wife in the position where she has to prove that it is in the best interest of the kids to take them away from you and moved them out of state with her. You are being a good, honorable dad - you dont want to keep the kids away from their mom, but you cannot be forced to give up your kids or follow their mom around from state to state.
You are in a strong position. The status quo is the kids are with you. The burden of proof is on her to convince a judge that he should change this. Most judges dont like to change things that arent broke.
Starsky