Denver, what is up? Got back from my conference last night, but headed out with friends because I was too depressed to sit in my house. Woke up late this morning and just now turning on computer.
Buddy, I just got caught up on your sitch and it was a real lift to my spirits. I don't understand the comment about the OM and V-Day. Did he send her a bunch of flowers or something? Please clarify.
As for everything else, there is so much positive going on here, but it might be a time for a 2x4. Be careful. Please keep in mind that you are interacting with a WAS that is now having to deal with her mixed emotions regarding you, a pursuing OM and the death of a family member. All of this attention toward you could be that she is looking for comfort. I don't know what exactly is being said between the two of you behind closed doors, but don't get too sucked in to what is happening. You have come so far, I don't want to see you jump the gun and cause her to run again. She is going through a bunch of emotional stuff right now and she could be turning to you just because it is easy and comforting. I hope that is not the case, but I just wanted to put that idea in your mind. You and 2step are still my mentors right now. I follow your moves closely in the hopes that I can get there some day. But, I don't want you to lose sight of what is going on here. Please, please, please be patient. I think the business card move the other night was slick, but it could have blown up on you. Thank goodness, it was positive and I am soooo happy that it did.
Please keep me updated. It gives me strength to know that a WAS might actually come to their senses...
I am heading out with friends again tonight. I will probably drink too much, so I will check in with everyone again tomorrow. Stay patient, stay strong!
BITS never walk alone!!!
Hey, what were you talking about when you stated someone has started a BITS page on FB?
FOBD
there is a fb page, i don't know about BITS tho
the page is for divorce busting
i'm about to join
it might be helpful
Buddy, I just got caught up on your sitch and it was a real lift to my spirits. I don't understand the comment about the OM and V-Day. Did he send her a bunch of flowers or something? Please clarify.
Hey, what were you talking about when you stated someone has started a BITS page on FB?
FOBD
I can't really clarify my comment about OM and V-day. I'm not sure exactly. What I do know is that I have hung out with my W bw 2 and 6 hours every night since V-day and that she has not had any contact with him whatsoever in 3 days. No, she has not had the 'talk' with him, and no, we have not formally made the decision to work on M. But I don't want to put any pressure on her. I have come this far, I can wait it out a little while longer. Especially since she is now grieving the death of her grandma. I truly believe that it is only a matter of time as long as I don't F up.
UPDATE
My updates are fairly boring right now, I know. I mainly just want to keep doing them for purposes of a journal.
Continued showing my W my changes, 180s, by offering to hang out with SS this morning while she went with her mom to view her grandma's body at the mortuary. I also told my W that I was washing my car and that I wanted to wash her's as well. So that is what I did most of the afternoon.
When I was done with her car, I drove it to MIL's where my W was. The family is working on organizing 2 very nice funerals for W's grandma. One locally and one in Buffalo.
W invited me to stay to eat pizza with them. So I did. I mainly hung out with my BIL since my W was busy helping her mom and SIL. BIL and I went to liquor store to pick up some stuff so that he, W and I could have a couple of drinks.
I was able to hang out with my W on the front porch of MIL's home for a while before I left for the evening. Ended up hanging with W and her family from about 6 p.m. until midnight.
Another good evening with no bumps in the road!
That is now 5 straight nights of hanging out with my W... Very happy!
BITS
Denver
Denver you are an inspiration to all of us and I will follow you through this mess. I see all of this as a sign but I also know you just never know how a wife will react. Keep busting and make yourself happy
Very well done
You can call me Nostradamus for predicting this long before you believed it.
Now I want to ask you a question.
I see you offered to wash W car and have offered other things along the way.
Are these measured offers? Meaning are you picking and choosing which things to offer with because of the baby steps you are taking or every time she has an issue you are jumping to help her.
I ask because I need to be prepared and I am curious how you are handling the balance between being dependable and overbearing "Mr' Fix it" mode.
speaking of having your heart ripped out and crushed - it reminded me of this - I think we have all been there if we are on this forum and in this community. That said, courage my friends, courage.
“To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one, not even to an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements; lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket- safe, dark, motionless, airless--it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable.”
-C.S. Lewis’’
Wow , good for you Denver. I have a questions for you though and i am not asking to stir up Sht. Do you ever focus on the OM when you are with her? Are you able to get him out of your head and if that is the case, what is the technique you are using?
I really commend you Denver and I have read alot of your advice and it is sage to be sure.
Keeping my fingers crossed for you.
NINE
BITS
Very well done
You can call me Nostradamus for predicting this long before you believed it.
Now I want to ask you a question.
I see you offered to wash W car and have offered other things along the way.
Are these measured offers? Meaning are you picking and choosing which things to offer with because of the baby steps you are taking or every time she has an issue you are jumping to help her.
I ask because I need to be prepared and I am curious how you are handling the balance between being dependable and overbearing "Mr' Fix it" mode.
Yeah, that's a good question 2Step. Right now, she is super busy helping take care of all of the stuff going on with her grandma's passing. I think that that makes it feel a little easier to offer help without feeling like I'm being 'mr. fix it'. I think that it will be more difficult once the mess with her grandma is done.
But I've just been offering my help generally... ' let me know if there is anything I can do to help'...
Offering to wash her car was more a part of my 180... I just didn't to enough husbandly things for my W before she left... I spoiled her, and 'fixed' things, financially ALL of the time. But I didn't spoil her enough with just every day, do something nice for your W to help her out, kind of way.
I want to do a lot more of that in the future.
BITS
Denver
I have a questions for you though and i am not asking to stir up Sht. Do you ever focus on the OM when you are with her? Are you able to get him out of your head and if that is the case, what is the technique you are using?
Ummm... yes. Unfortunately. I find myself talking and laughing with my W and/or other people in the room, and then I will just have a horrible thought go through my head out of the blue.
I feel white hot anger... and then, for whatever reason, I've been able to do something that I have never been capable in the past, I put the thought out of my head, and calm myself down really quickly.
I think that the main thing is that I'm learning to quickly go through everything that I have processed here in my head during those moments. 1) How sitch got to this point, 2) my high level of blame, 3) fact that my W would never have done this but for me being 'absent H', 4) How lucky that I am that I seem to be getting another chance.
There's probably more to that, but the point is that I am consciously going through a mini process in my head to get those bad thought to go away.
And, it is working. Plus, it has happened less and less frequently over the course of the week. So that's encouraging.
BITS
Denver
P.S. Not stirring up sh!t 9... I've poured my heart and soul out on this board... why stop now!
I am glad that things are going so well for you right now. As for thinking about OM, I imagine a new relationship beginning with my W, just as it was when we began dating, and put it out of my mind. Kinda like knowing she had previous relationships in the past and not worrying about it. But then I realize I am the one without the relationship and it falls apart. But that is the direction I am heading in if I am lucky enough to get the opportunity.
I am glad that things are going so well for you right now. As for thinking about OM, I imagine a new relationship beginning with my W, just as it was when we began dating, and put it out of my mind. Kinda like knowing she had previous relationships in the past and not worrying about it. But then I realize I am the one without the relationship and it falls apart. But that is the direction I am heading in if I am lucky enough to get the opportunity.
I agree... that is part of the processing that I am doing on this issue. The fact of the matter is this... for my W, this IS a new R between she and I... the old one was truly dead...
For me, the old one never died bc I wasn't there emotionally...
anyway... it helps to look at it this way... and in many respects it really is the truth.
BITS
Denver
Denver
Just a comment here from one who has some perspective on what you are going thru and a suggestion.
Forgiveness is the only path to healing - without it - forget the healing
Just sayin
Thanks Firstlove. I have done A LOT of thinking about 'forgiveness' too. I think that it is important for me to be able to forgive my W and myself for everything that has happened to our M.
Thanks!
BITS
Denver
Thanks Denver :
I am not in your shoes and dont know if I ever will be but I do imagine sometimes that if I ever get another shot at having my family back, then I will have to completely forgive her for her affair. I like what you said as well as imagining when you first got together that she had other relationships and that too is an excellent way to handle this.
Many of my friends ( Not BITS) cant believe I would even consider taking her back after what she has done. They also believe that once a cheater always a cheater but I dont believe that.
I am pleased that you are getting a chance Denver to make everything right. I beleive your wife would truly be blessed if she gave you another shot and never regret it.
Its difficult to understand why the WAW cant see that their only true path to salvation is with the family back. The fantasy will fade and the unhappiness will surface again with the OM.
All the best Denver.
9
BITS
Denver
I know I have posted this before, not sure if you have read it before or not -but for me in this horrific process the message in this poem has meant a lot to me, and in fact has kept what little sanity I have left, somewhat in tack - some days
Letting Go
Author unknown
To let go doesn’t mean to stop caring, it means I can’t do it for someone else.
To let go is not to cut myself off, it’s the realization that I don’t control another.
To let go is not to enable, but to allow learning from natural consequences.
To let go is to admit powerlessness, which means the outcome is not in my hands.
To let go is not to try to change or blame another, I can only change myself.
To let go is not to care for, but to care about.
To let go is not to fix, but to be supportive.
To let go is not to judge, but to allow another to be a human being.
To let go is not to be in the middle arranging all the outcomes, but to allow others to affect their own outcomes.
To let go is not to be protective, it is to permit another to face reality.
To let go is not to deny but to accept.
To let go is not to nag, scold, or argue, but to search out my own shortcomings and to correct them.
To let go is not to adjust everything to my desires but to take each day as it comes and to cherish the moment.
To let go is not to criticize and regulate anyone but to try to become what I dream I can be.
To let go is not to regret the past but to grow and live for the future.
To let go is to fear less and love more.
Let go - fear less - love more
Denver
With respect to the power of forgiveness, I just left this on another post so I will just repeat it here.
I heard this quote about the true value of forgiveness. It was a quote from a man who witnessed his family being murdered right in front of him in the Nazi concentration camps in WWII. "The value of forgiveness is forgiving the unforgivable"
Forgiving the unforgivable is easily going to be one of the most difficult things you will ever do in your entire life - but it will also be one of the most powerful and freeing things you will ever do. In my life, forgiveness was an impossibility for me without the love of Christ living in me-without that, forgiveness was an impossibility. This is just my path, not saying it is anyone else's but it is my path and it is one that is wracked with pain and grief beyond comprehension - but with faith and hope, I also pray for healing and a future with abundance and love.
Denver,
Just wanted to stop by and say "hello." Finally settling in for the night and have some time to chat. Any contact from your W today? How are the funeral arrangements going? When do you head to Buffalo?
Just trying to find something positive to hang my hat on tonight. I hope you are doing well, my friend!
Hey, I do have a question. How do you post those quote boxes in your threads? I can't figure out how to do that. Please send me some brief instructions.
BITS never walk alone!
FOBD
Denver,
Just wanted to stop by and say "hello." Finally settling in for the night and have some time to chat. Any contact from your W today? How are the funeral arrangements going? When do you head to Buffalo?
Just trying to find something positive to hang my hat on tonight. I hope you are doing well, my friend!
Hey, I do have a question. How do you post those quote boxes in your threads? I can't figure out how to do that. Please send me some brief instructions.
BITS never walk alone!
FOBD
Denver, I think you're doing awesome man. Great stuff!
I don't think you're acting like Mr. Fix-it at all. It's great that you're helping out. She'll appreciate it even more once all of the funeral stuff is over.
I can't remember who was asking earlier (2step?) about when to start back into "helping". I think it is a gut feeling after you've been DBing a little while.
Part of my problem was that I didn't do things. So I had to get into that pretty quick without making it seem like pursuing..
Hey, I do have a question. How do you post those quote boxes in your threads? I can't figure out how to do that. Please send me some brief instructions.
BITS never walk alone!
FOBD
It's really easy FOBD. Instead of hitting 'reply' hit 'quote'. You'll see whatever it is that ou are trying to quote in bw brackets
BITS
Denver
Denver,
Just wanted to stop by and say "hello." Finally settling in for the night and have some time to chat. Any contact from your W today? How are the funeral arrangements going? When do you head to Buffalo?
Went to my W's grandma's 'viewing' today. Was there with my W for about 90 minutes.
I noticed that she signed us in the 'memory' book as a family, W, Denver, SS...
I liked that.
Afterwards, I met her at her mom's where her family was gathering for dinner and more planning for the funeral tomorrow. Hung out with W and her family for about another 4 hours.
Another good day with W... no slip ups from me. No R talk. My only concern is that I still feel this hesitation from my W. An invisible hand keeping me at bay.
She did let me gently rub her back while we sat on the front porch for a bit talking.
I still have zero security with the sitch though... need...
PATIENCE
BITS
Denver
Good Stuff Denver:
It must be hell for you to be so close and yet in your mind so far away. Why cant they just see that staying with someone that is willing to forgive all is the true measure of love. To me thats when you really know some one loves you when they are willing to forgive you for an affair.
The patience thins is essential and painful; I know.
I guess at this point , you must stay the course and keep improving yourself. It will be interesting to see how she reacts to you after all the funeral arrangements are done.
Im keeping my fingers crossed for you Denver.
9
BITS
Denver,
This is all GREAT STUFF. And I am so glad that you were able to be there for your W.
That invisible hand?? Get used to it. It's going to be there for awhile. It may seem like it's gone once in awhile, but then it comes out the dark again. DON'T LET THAT TRIP YOU UP. Ok? It very nearly derailed me because I wasn't prepared for that.
Get yourself ready for the next step, buddy. Some say reconciliation is harder than DB'ing. I'm not sure that's true. But it is very hard. You want to jump 100 steps ahead while they are still putting the first foot forward to start step 1. Frustrating.
You're doing awesome. REMEMBER THAT.
I'm praying for you.
LIS
After that 1st step then comes 2step........sorry couldn't resist
Denver, I am soooooo happy for you buddy. Still sounds like you are doing great. She is going to remember on those cold, lonely nights how much a good man you were during a dark time. You could have turned your back on her or been a jerk. But, despite everything, you are still there for her when times got tough. I like that. I like that a lot and you should be commended for your efforts. You are my mentor!!!!
Yes, that invisible hand is there and it is very powerful. I spoke to my C about that. Here is some really crappy news that I hope will help, none the less. He told me you will never know that it is gone until it is gone. If that makes sense. In other words, it will disappear and you won't even notice it until it has been gone for some time. And, unfortunately, only she can make it go away.
Good luck, my friend!!!
BITS never walk alone!
FOBD
Thanks FOBD, LIS, 9, and 2Step!
Nothing really too new to report...
Another day spent with my W and her family. Grandma's funeral was today. Went to that, sat by W, then went to dinner afterwards. Good day again.
I was feeling extremely impatient with the situation though. I just want a little security that we are formally working on the M. I'm not going to bring it up for a few days though. Want to let her get through all of this stuff with her grandma's passing. I do get a little down when I think about the fact that all of this could still be for naught... The invisible hand is still there of course. But I did put my arm around her today numerous times! She let me, so I guess that's a good sign! Ha!
BITS
Denver
I am not going to bring it up for a few days though. Want to let her get through all of this stuff with her grandma's passing. I do get a little down when I think about the fact that all of this could still be for naught... The invisible hand is still there of course. But I did put my arm around her today numerous times! She let me, so I guess that's a good sign! Ha!
Denver, hang in there. Yes, I would definitely not put too much thought or stock into what happens while see is fighting a death in the family. That can be a rough time and she could pull back once it is all over. I wish I had a "Patience 2x4" that you and I could pass back and forth to each other. I think we could both use it sometimes...
FOBD
Patience is not one of my virtues FOBD! LOL... kind of like you and FB! Jeez!
BITS
Denver
I was feeling extremely impatient with the situation though. I just want a little security that we are formally working on the M.
This is your worst enemy right now Denver.
Search for security in your own courage.
Look back at the road you have just traveled.
How may people to do you know have done that?
How many people would endeavor to do that?
This is the new Denver and he is not insecure.
He is self aware and self reliant.
He is a man living his own truth.
Set your anticipation and expectation as aside
Have faith in yourself and this process you have begun.
I was feeling extremely impatient with the situation though. I just want a little security that we are formally working on the M.
This is your worst enemy right now Denver.
Search for security in your own courage.
Look back at the road you have just traveled.
How may people to do you know have done that?
How many people would endeavor to do that?
This is the new Denver and he is not insecure.
He is self aware and self reliant.
He is a man living his own truth.
Set your anticipation and expectation as aside
Have faith in yourself and this process you have begun.
Thank you Gritter... that was perfect advice for me today!
It is what I was trying to formulate in my mind, but couldn't quite come up with it...
BITS
Denver
Hey sweetie. Take Gritter's advice. This is where the game is won or lost... right here. There are a lot of people who would do almost anything to be where you are. Do NOT let your impatience get the best of you. I struggled with this A LOT over the weekend. I thank God I didn't snap, but I felt like it quite a few times. Heck, I feel like it right now. But it's not worth it. Before doing anything, ask if its going to get you to your goal.
I'm praying for you!!
LIS
Hey sweetie. Take Gritter's advice. This is where the game is won or lost... right here. There are a lot of people who would do almost anything to be where you are. Do NOT let your impatience get the best of you. I struggled with this A LOT over the weekend. I thank God I didn't snap, but I felt like it quite a few times. Heck, I feel like it right now. But it's not worth it. Before doing anything, ask if its going to get you to your goal.
I'm praying for you!!
LIS
Yeah LIS... I see a similarity here with you and I right now. Thank god I didn't snap this past weekend too... More than once, I felt this strong feeling of, hmmm how do I describe it...
WANTING THINGS TO JUST BE SETTLED AND TO BE PERFECT...
LOL... it's during these moments that I just wanted to say to my W... 'um, so what's the deal? Are we a happily married couple again? '
Uggg... it is hard for me to be so damn patient! LOL...
Thanks LIS!
BITS
Denver
Oh, you and me... we're DEFINITELY seeing eye to eye at the moment. Don't worry your pretty little head about that.
I know it's hard to be patient. But, in the end, do you have a choice? Not if you want your W back, you don't. So settle on down and be prepared to stay here in this for a little while. Part of it stinks because your ego will take a bruising a bit. It was easier when we were apart as there was less of an opportunity for him to hurt me. So I get where you are. I am a fixer too... so I just want to patch the whole thing up and call it fixed. But life doesn't work like that.
Hang in there, sweetie. We're definitely in this boat together at the moment. And there aren't a lot of people I trust to be stuck with - but you, I know you will save me from my stupidity and hopefully you will find some strength to be more patient. We just need to keep believing that we ARE going to get our spouses back.
I'm praying for you!
LIS
LOL! Yes...
Oh don't worry LIS... I'm going to continue to be patient! I haven't come this far through the sh!t to fall down now!
It's just hard...
BITS
Denver
denver!!!
just think about what you would tell bolt, if he were writing these same things
what advice would you give him? hhmmmmmm?
good - i knew it you would give sound advice
now take it yourself!
Thanks grr!
BITS
Denver
Denver,
Get a mouse trap, set it and quickly grab the cheese off.
The result is what happens without patience.
Hahahahahaha... ok, now THAT'S funny J3B.
Denver and Lost,
Both of you seem to be struggling a bit with accepting the nice gift you have been given. What gift? The gift of a chance at reconciliation!!!!
I want you to do me a favor. Next time you are with your spouse and the demons creep in, stop, take a deep breath and remember the rest of us out here. Remember FOBD who is now going on day 8 with no contact from W. Think about where you were and where you could be and then focus on the goal at hand. Take your spouse by the hand, just look them in the eyes and say nothing while you smile like a drunken fool. While you smile, continue to think about where you were, where you are now and where you might be if you hadn't tried so hard to get to where you are now. Then just enjoy the moment. So many of us out here are living through the two of you. And, some of us will never get to where you are now. Give that a thought next time you want to jump the gun or act out toward your spouse.
Just a little 2x4 from your old friend. Now, get out there and keep up the good work!!! The BITS are counting on you to lead the way!
BITS never walk alone!!
FOBD
I do appreciate the 2x4. I don't want to sound ungrateful. I'm sorry if I do. The thing is, it hurts more sometimes. When he was gone, he had less of a chance to get to me. Now he's back and he still pushes buttons and it hurts. I joke around and I try to do my best to keep my self-confidence up. But sometimes the insensitive moments have a way of tearing me down quickly. And I honestly thought that when he came back, things would be looking brighter. But honestly, I still have the same doubts as I did before. I guess that's where my head is at...
LIS
FOBD is right. Alot of us would cut off their right arms and perhaps other things for the amount they are being used right now, to be where you are.
PATIENCE is the word. Dont do or say anything right now to evoke doubt in her mind. Be the rock and address the situation of the funeral and tha you are there for HER. If you initiate R talk at this point she may see you as being somebody that is taking advantage of a bad situation to further HIS own gains.
Keep fighting the good fight.
9
BITS
Denver,
I can't tell you how HAPPY I am for you. Just becareful and don't talk about the R right now at all. You already know that yall are working on it. So, just do that...work on it. This is the hard part...
You gotta stay focused on changing you in order to keep your wife in the game with you. She has to keep seeing this change about you.
Your Wife has a lot going on right now. So, just keep being her rock and working towards the goal in mind. Her coming HOME soon. When she is ready again, she will bring it up. Right?
Denver, your doing such a great job friend. I'm so proud of you. Just stay on track...
BITS
Dixie
Denver and Lost,
Both of you seem to be struggling a bit with accepting the nice gift you have been given. What gift? The gift of a chance at reconciliation!!!!
I want you to do me a favor. Next time you are with your spouse and the demons creep in, stop, take a deep breath and remember the rest of us out here. Remember FOBD who is now going on day 8 with no contact from W. Think about where you were and where you could be and then focus on the goal at hand. Take your spouse by the hand, just look them in the eyes and say nothing while you smile like a drunken fool. While you smile, continue to think about where you were, where you are now and where you might be if you hadn't tried so hard to get to where you are now. Then just enjoy the moment. So many of us out here are living through the two of you. And, some of us will never get to where you are now. Give that a thought next time you want to jump the gun or act out toward your spouse.
Just a little 2x4 from your old friend. Now, get out there and keep up the good work!!! The BITS are counting on you to lead the way!
BITS never walk alone!!
FOBD
Nothing to add but this should be a very good motivation for you. Always remember where you have been and where you are now. Never get comfortable and find yourself here again.
I can't tell you how HAPPY I am for you. Just becareful and don't talk about the R right now at all. You already know that yall are working on it. So, just do that...work on it. This is the hard part...
You gotta stay focused on changing you in order to keep your wife in the game with you. She has to keep seeing this change about you.
Your Wife has a lot going on right now. So, just keep being her rock and working towards the goal in mind. Her coming HOME soon. When she is ready again, she will bring it up. Right?
Denver, your doing such a great job friend. I'm so proud of you. Just stay on track...
Thanks Dixie. I know. I just have bouts of impatience.
BITS
Denver
Thanks for the 2x4 FOBD and 9...
You guys are right. I will say that the further you progress with this stuff, it doesn't get any easier... just... different.
BITS
Denver
Denver
Maybe it's time to sit down and write a new list of goals. Update your old one. Things that more appropriately pertain to your current standing. This may help to guide you and keep you patient. Rushing my reconciliation was one of my biggest mistakes last summer. This is a trying ordeal on them too. They are testing the waters to see if they can trust you with there heart again. No small task. Had I only known about DBing, I feel confident I wouldn't be here now. Good luck my friend.
What's going on Denver? You struggling with where to go next? I just wanted to give you some support. Maybe you should take a look at your threads from a month ago to see how far you've come recently.
You're not over the mountain .... but you can see the top and climb it if you choose.
I read somewhere else that when you reconcile, don't count of the fact that your spouse will have changed. You are getting your old spouse back, and they may even be worse for wear at that time, damaged and worn out by the crisis they have been through.
On the other hand, us LBS have gone through the darkest time in our life but we would not be here, waiting, not giving up hope had we not found ourselves. All of us agree we get out of this sitch a much BETTER person.
We have to be patient and wait for our H or W to come back, and we still have a lot of work to do. We have to lead them out of the darkness they are in as well, carefully, so as not to lose them. The fact that they are back, or have signified wanting to work on the M, is just a beginning. They have a long way to go, and we are ahead of them, thus it is upon us to still be the lighthouse.
The advice that everyone gives here is that the best way, maybe the only way, to do this is by example. Taking things slowly, using your best judgement, not being demanding .... maybe those are good things to start with.
One word of caution and not to put a negative slant. If there was an OM or Ow. They have to get them out to their system as well. When My W came back in July , she kept telling me to go slow with her and not to push her. And I did, and kept going slow at a snails pace in fact. The fact was, she was still having affair , unbeknonst to be me.
My point is , yes, we need to take it slow when recon occurs but also be on the look out for sincerity. My W was stalling when she came back and there was no progress. I think we have to be sure they are coming back for the right reasons, that they want to work on the marriage and not because they are insecure about the future or just need us for security.
Just Saying
9
BITS
Denver
This has been heavy on my mind bc of how an A is affecting my own sitch. I would love to pick your W brain, as I'm sure you would, what was the turning point for her. At what point did the OM begin to fade and the new Denver became the more attractive option. Was it something you did, your patience, your kind heart, your persistance....what was it? He must have fell short of the new Denver or you wouldn't be were you are today my friend. The female mind baffles me.
Denver
This has been heavy on my mind bc of how an A is affecting my own sitch. I would love to pick your W brain, as I'm sure you would, what was the turning point for her. At what point did the OM begin to fade and the new Denver became the more attractive option. Was it something you did, your patience, your kind heart, your persistance....what was it? He must have fell short of the new Denver or you wouldn't be were you are today my friend. The female mind baffles me.
Actually, I would like you to post some details on that also. I think it would be helpful.
Take care, buddy!
BITS never walk alone!
FOBD
One word of caution and not to put a negative slant. If there was an OM or Ow. They have to get them out to their system as well. When My W came back in July , she kept telling me to go slow with her and not to push her. And I did, and kept going slow at a snails pace in fact. The fact was, she was still having affair , unbeknonst to be me.
My point is , yes, we need to take it slow when recon occurs but also be on the look out for sincerity. My W was stalling when she came back and there was no progress. I think we have to be sure they are coming back for the right reasons, that they want to work on the marriage and not because they are insecure about the future or just need us for security.
Just Saying
9
BITS
Starsky
I read somewhere else that when you reconcile, don't count of the fact that your spouse will have changed. You are getting your old spouse back, and they may even be worse for wear at that time, damaged and worn out by the crisis they have been through.
On the other hand, us LBS have gone through the darkest time in our life but we would not be here, waiting, not giving up hope had we not found ourselves. All of us agree we get out of this sitch a much BETTER person.
We have to be patient and wait for our H or W to come back, and we still have a lot of work to do. We have to lead them out of the darkness they are in as well, carefully, so as not to lose them. The fact that they are back, or have signified wanting to work on the M, is just a beginning. They have a long way to go, and we are ahead of them, thus it is upon us to still be the lighthouse.
The advice that everyone gives here is that the best way, maybe the only way, to do this is by example. Taking things slowly, using your best judgement, not being demanding .... maybe those are good things to start with.
I think that this is EXACTLY right Angel... and it is what I am finding with my situation.
BITS
Denver
Denver
This has been heavy on my mind bc of how an A is affecting my own sitch. I would love to pick your W brain, as I'm sure you would, what was the turning point for her. At what point did the OM begin to fade and the new Denver became the more attractive option. Was it something you did, your patience, your kind heart, your persistance....what was it? He must have fell short of the new Denver or you wouldn't be were you are today my friend. The female mind baffles me.
Pick away IW...
Unfortunately, I can't pinpoint the turning point. I had a gut feeling that it was happening in the middle of January. And that does coincide with the answer that my W gave me. A couple of weeks ago, when she told me that she had realized that she still loved me, I asked her when that realization struck her. Her answer coincided with the same time that I had that gut feeling.
What caused the turning point?
Patience on my part for sure. My W wanted to move forward with D right away after she moved out at the end of November. She said as much at the very beginning of December and again at the very beginning of January. Both times I told her that I didn't want D and that I wouldn't assist her with it (I did tell her that I would cooperate though)... My strategy was to buy our M as much time as I could. I went dark for much of December... maintained contact with my SS... And let my W initiate all contact bw us. When we did talk, I didn't bring up R, M, D, or OM. And I kept convos short and to the point. Eventually, she began to become more friendly...
Persistence... I wouldn't say that was something that I did bc of what I just explained. I didn't pursue at all. I let her have time and space... that seemed to draw her closer to me over time.
Kind heart? Probably. I was always polite to her when we did have contact. At xmas, I did the same as far as gift giving goes with SS (not W) and bought some presents for him from 'santa' knowing that my W couldn't afford much. I gave xmas cards to her family members telling them how much they meant to me. After xmas, I stayed in contact with SS and began to invite him to do fun things with me in January. I texted him or called him almost every night to tell him good night and that I loved him.
BUT, the biggest thing that I did... GAL and 180s... I did fun things with my friends and posted pics on FB so my W would see them... she commented a couple of times to me about those things... I could tell that it bothered her that I was out having fun. My W is somewhat jealous and I knew that the thought of me out where I could be meeting women would bother her. But I NEVER did anything like that or suggested that I had on FB or to W. It was very subtle what I did with FB. I think that this is important to say.
180s... I bought new and stylish clothes... seriously. Sounds goofy, but I did. I made sure that I was always dressed nicely just in case I had contact with my w. And this paid off a couple of days before xmas. I was dropping my SS's presents off at her mom's and she was there. We talked for a little while. She commented on my new clothes... she teasingly said "new gf dressing you now?" but I knew that it was on her mind.
The biggest 180 though... I acted very, very happy every time that I spoke with her or saw her. This was big for me, bc one of my problems before she left was that I was depressed. It is not fun being around someone who is always depressed... I reversed this completely. W told me the other night that she sees my changes, but
the biggest change that she sees is the 'energy' that I project now.
Lastly, I think that the A did what most affairs do... it lost its luster. Most WAS's think that their lives are going to be full of dancing fairies and rose peddles as soon as their S is out of the picture. When there is an A, that feeling is increased 10 fold. After a while, the WAS realizes that their life isn't as grand as they thought that it would be, that the OP isn't as great as they originally thought. They begin to miss the positive things that they had with the LBS... this happens when the anger wears off.. which can only happen if the LBS gives them space IMO.
I read on here that A's are a process... and unfortunately, part of that process is to actually push or let the S be closer to the OP. This has the effect of making the A less appealing bc it is no longer exciting... it is more of a R... and we all know that with every R, there are annoying things that we find out about the person that we are with. So if you let two people having an A with one another have that R ... one or the other will most likely realize that the other isn't all that he/she was cracked up to be.
Bottom line... PATIENCE AND TIME
Question is... can you stomach it?
Only you can decide.
BITS
Denver
Denver:
This is very well written for all those just starting out almost like an instruction manual.
Folks read it and re read it.
also be on the look out for sincerity.
Yes. Yes.
AND
YES.
Denver this
Bottom line... PATIENCE AND TIME
Question is... can you stomach it?
Only you can decide.
f@cking A Denver!
F@CKING A.
You're getting it.
IT IS ALL YOU.
BTW stole that ^^^^ from Jack...
When he said it to me many months ago.
You are getting it my friend.
Keep steppin.
Oh......Denver! You the man, sweetie!
"
The biggest 180 though... I acted very, very happy every time that I spoke with her or saw her. This was big for me, bc one of my problems before she left was that I was depressed. It is not fun being around someone who is always depressed... I reversed this completely. W told me the other night that she sees my changes, but the biggest change that she sees is the 'energy' that I project now. "
denver you couldn't have slapped me any harder if you had been next to me!
Denver, I want to personally thank you for your post. I came here today in the dumps and you have, once again, lifted me from the darkness. You are right, TIME and PATIENCE!!! Can I stomach it? I don't know. But, I have to ask myself:
1) Do you want to give up now?
2) Do you have what it takes to see this through?
3) How do you want this to end?
If I quit now, I will never know the answers to any of these questions. I have to continue to remind myself that she still loves me whether she shows it or not.
Thank you! Thank you!
I am going to recommend "Lt. Denver" to the headquarters of BITS Central Command for his valor in the face of depression and anxiety. You have fought well and have earned this award!
BITS never walk alone!!!
FOBD
Denver:
This is very well written for all those just starting out almost like an instruction manual.
Folks read it and re read it.
Thanks 2Step... I have used DB principles with my strategy throughout my ordeal. And had a session with a DB coach that helped me focus that strategy.
I had to focus very hard, swallow a lot of pride, and endure a lot of pain, in order to stay faithful to my strategy.
The struggle is not over for me... but I have made a lot of progress.
BITS
Denver
Oh......Denver! You the man, sweetie!
Thanks Sandi... and thank you for setting me straight on some very important things early on. That advice has paid off in a big way. I'm talking about your thoughts on my OW friends... and the woman's perspective that you gave me. I had never understood that before you and some others knocked me in the head with it. I am truly grateful.
BITS
Denver
also be on the look out for sincerity.
Yes. Yes.
AND
YES.
I will follow this advice... but I know my W... she won't join me in fighting for our M unless she is completely sincere about it.
I think that is what she is making sure of right now...
Bottom line... PATIENCE AND TIME
Question is... can you stomach it?
Only you can decide.
f@cking A Denver!
F@CKING A.
You're getting it.
IT IS ALL YOU.
BTW stole that ^^^^ from Jack...
When he said it to me many months ago.
You are getting it my friend.
Keep steppin. [/quote]
It is the most important advice that anyone coming to this board for the first time should take note of. No question about it.
I'm happy to steal anything that either you or Jack have said... and I hope that someday, someone will steal it from me.
Thanks Truegritter! I appreciate the props!
I'm not where I want to be... Yet...
And I know that I will NEVER be at the finish line...
I am a work in progress... as is my M...
I know now that this will always be the case.
BITS
Denver
Update...
It has been a while since I have updated. I haven't mainly bc things have been pretty static for the past week.
My W seemed to be leaning very strongly towards reconciliation on Vday... talking about MC and having conversation with OM that would end any and all R with him... then her grandmother passed away.
My W and I spent hours together for 7 straight days after that. I was very careful not to bring up R, M, or OM during that time.
W did bring it up one night when she and I went out for drinks. She expressed reservation about reconciliation during this conversation. BOTTOM LINE... she is scared to risk her heart with me again. I understand this... and I validated her fears.
W also told me that she has seen my changes... that I do not seem like the Denver that she knows at all... she is impressed. The biggest change that she notices is with the 'energy' that I am projecting. This gives her reason to think that M may be worth taking a shot on.
But... she is in no place to make any rash decisions now with everything going on with her family... planning 2 funerals for her grandma.. 1 here and 1 in Buffalo.. and being there for her mother.
I understand this... and validate it whenever it is brought up.
She passive aggressively inited me to go to Buffalo with her and her family. I accepted and am flying out with BIL the day after the girls fly out. My W did bring up the sleeping arrangements... and I will be sleeping separately from my W...
This disappointed me... but I did not tell W so. I acted 'as if' that was perfectly fine with me... I do not want to pressure her in any way.
The trip to Buffalo is next week. I will be with W and her family for 4 days. I plan to DB my butt off during that time... so that I can show my W that she can trust me... and can take the risk on me.
The past week has been spotty for me. I struggle with being patient every single day. I have no security with the situation.... and I realize that I have placed my heart out on the table... again... for her to possibly destroy.... again.
We do have contact every day... mostly it is still W contacting me...
I was very, very disappointed on Tuesday when W told me that OM had babysat my SS. He had been suspended from school. She works, I work, MIL works, FIL was unable to baby sit him... she told me that OM had called her and offered...
OM is lingering... subtly trying to stay in the picture...
I won't lie... I hate him with a passion... I view him as a vulture with a very broken moral compass. But I do not say this to my W.
I did tell her that I was disappointed.... This was a mistake on my part. It opened R talk... again W expressed her fear of working on 'us'... on taking risk on me again.
I believe that OM is a fallback... W is afraid of being alone... I admit that I am somewhat embarrassed for W for feeling like this ... that she is afraid to be alone... but she is broken too. And I understand.
Two days after OM babysat SS... W texted me while she and SS were eating dinner out at restaurant... she asked me if I wanted to drop by and visit with them. I did... we ate ... and then took SS for ice cream...
This was an 'up' for the week... but I am still on a roller coaster...
I do not know what each day will carry with it... and it is hard.
Emotionally exhausting...
I am still in a good place... I believe that.... but I realize that my struggle is NOT over... I have not conquered the demons that brought down my M... not yet.
I am tired... I admit it...
This does not get any easier... I am sorry to say... it only becomes different.
BITS
Denver
Denver, I have been having a really tough day today. Once of those days where you think that your W is just playing you for a fool. I just read your post, and it settled me a bit.
Thank you for that.
Denver
There is so much up there ^^^ that I could quote. That is achievement for you.
I am so ...
Proud is not the word. Because that assumes a position of I am watching a person who is not a peer.
That is not how it is.
But I am proud of what you have achieved. Proud for YOU.
When I came here the people who posted to me I held in such high regard for their wisdom.
It is something to aspire to.
EVERYONE has the ability to reach their goal.
Everyone here.
It may seem like you are standing on the shoulders of giants
We have only walked the road ahead of you.
This is a special place for that very reason.
You are crossing over my friend. I hear it in your voice.
You got this.
No time to rest on your laurels cause this process never ends until they throw clay on top of you.
Don't take her temperature. Just stop that. No matter how disapointed you are.
Have faith in yourself.
She has to come towards you, so let her. ok?
In HER time.
Just think if you do save your M you have the rest of your life with her so take your own advice...
Be patient.
It now is ALL YOU. <------- I have said this before but now you understand what it means.
Denver,
Oh my goodness!!!! You're doing so awesome. I can't even believe the change in you over the last week. You are definitely calming down!!
I know that it is a bit tough. You and I are kind of trying to make our way through this and it is no picnic. But keep your eye on the goal. You know why? YOU are so worth it.
I'm praying for you.
LIS
DUDE!
That is so awesome man. Not just what you are doing but what you are PLANNING to do. Love the attitude. Carrying forth the plan will be hard for sure but with that correct attitude, you can do it.
and I know you know it already but don't have any expectations for the trip. ACTUALLY, DO! Have expectations that you are going to be there for your W. Support her and make things as easy as possible for her. Be her rock, her support, her shelter.
That will pay back later for sure.
Denver
Thank you for the great response to my post. I have read and reread it. I felt I needed a blueprint for the future and now I have it. I have a lot of faith in you. You WILL save your M. Thanks again
Update/Journal
My W and I exchanged a few texts yesterday afternoon. She had a baby shower to go to... told me that she'd call in the evening. She called at around 6. We chatted about the baby shower and her singing gig the night before.
I asked her if she wanted to go take a salsa dancing class with me... she doesn't need it, but I do LOL... she laughed bc this is something that I would never do with her before. Ended up she couldn't bc she had her hurt her foot performing on Friday night. We ended up agreeing to go to dinner and a movie (which we never made it to).
She came over to my house and I then drove us to an Indian restaurant. We ordered a bottle of wine and ate.
The conversation was really, really good. We talked about the kids that she teaches, some of the people that she works with , and a little about her music. There was lots of laughter.
This was good bc she had told me earlier on the phone that she had been feeling 'blah' all day. I was a little concerned that this had something to do with me.
At some point during dinner, W brought up M and our current situation. I told her that it hadn't been my intent to talk about this stuff... W said that she knew that and that she had brought it up.
But M and sitch talk dominated the conversation the rest of the night. There was some serious talk... with moments of laughter in bw.
After we finished dinner, we decided to go to another bar close to my house for another drink.
M and sitch talk continued to dominate the conversation... again with moments of other subjects coming up... and laughter.
So... the gist of the subjects talked about and what was said:
1) W's Fear of giving M another shot - I continued to take a beating for my failures as a H before W left. W said that she forgot who she was bc my needs always came first. W said that OM has qualities that she always wanted me to have. W said that I had good qualities that she misses and that I wasn't all bad... otherwise she wouldn't have been with me for 8 years.
W said that I have said that I would change in the past and after a couple of months that things would always revert back to bad. That she wants to believe what I am saying now, but that I am a lawyer and business person... that I'm good at selling.... this concerns her. But that what she has seen from me recently is good and not what she knows of me.
W said that I made her feel that she was never good enough for me. That she was always trying to prove that she was good enough for me. This made her feel that she was always being judged by me. That I was always looking for flaws. AFter a while, this made her lose her self... she didn't feel comfortable around me. Didn't feel like she could laugh or be herself. She doesn't ever want to feel like this again. That she has rediscovered this quality in her since she left me.
I validated, apologized, and told her that I NEVER wanted her to feel like that again. I told her that I would spend the rest of my life making up for how I had made her feel.
2) OM - Reiterated that she is not in love with OM. That OM has qualities that she wished that I had. That he is more 'naturally' loving and 'aware' of her well-being. W reiterated that OM also annoys her... that he is 'smothering'... but that maybe that is something that she should like. That OM and I are complete opposites. That OM is very good with SS... and that I was not...
She is very concerned about hurting OM... and feels guilty about letting him fall for her. That OM had been dumped by previous girl who he was engaged to and went into deep depression. She doesn't want to do this to him.
W reiterated OM was not reason that she left me. But that she allowed him in bc she felt that we were done and she had to force herself to try and 'move on'.
W asked me what I would do if I were in her shoes. I told her that I would have to listen to what I was saying and how I was acting and decide whether or not I thought that my changes were real. That, if I were her, I would not be considering OM bc I would realize that I had only been dating him for a couple of months... and I would wonder how that R would be in 8 years. W agreed that she does consider that. I said that, if I were in her shoes, I would not feel that my choice were a zero sum game... that if I got rid of OM and gave M a chance... and that failed... that I wouldn't feel that my chances for love were done.... basically that I wouldn't feel afraid of having neither me or OM. W agreed with this too... but admitted that she is afraid of being left alone with no one. W admitted that she does have issues that probably need addressed.
W told me that she knows that I 'hate' OM. I didn't disagree. I told her that what he did, and is doing, is wrong. That most men would agree that it is wrong to become involved with a woman who is M'd... and especially with a woman who is M'd and has an 11 year old son. That I would never change my opinion on this. I told W it was not smart of OM to let himself get involved in this sitch... that it is like a man going into a burning building knowing that there is a million dollars inside... that the reward of doing could be great... but that the risk was not worth it... And that is what OM has done. I said that I do understand completely why OM would fall in love with W. And that there is a very small part of me that empathizes with the pain that he will feel if/when W tells him that she is going to work on M. W said that she understood everything that I was saying, and understood why I felt that way. That she thinks that OM is a bit immature on this issue... And that he probably wasn't very smart in risking his own heart on that type of situation.
W said that she is being very honest with OM... that he knew that she and I were at dinner... that he knows that I was with her during the week after her grandma passed away... and knows that I am going to Buffalo with her.
W said that she tried not having any contact with OM... but now, he is 'desperately trying to stay in' her life. She told me that he had texted her a few times while we were out...
3) About me - W said that she loves me and always has. That it is just comfortable with me. That she we have been together for 8 years and that it is hard for her to imagine now her not being with me. That she does see my changes. She asked me how it is going to be a few months from now when I get annoyed with her... I told her that things will be different in how we handle the bumps in the road. That M is not easy for anyone... and that I don't expect things to be perfect. But that she never has to fear being lonely again. That I have truly had a change in the way that I think... how I view my priorities... that I know what it feels like to lose her and that I will NEVER allow that to happen again.
I talked to W about unconditional love... how I would love her regardless of what happens. That my unconditional love is the one thing from me that she cannot reject.
I told her that I wish that there was something that I could do to prove to her that I am different, but that words are all I have until and unless she gives me the opportunity to prove it to her with actions.
Finally, W said that she is 'leaning towards' working on M. She just needs time to really think... maybe a week or two after we return from Buffalo. I told her that I understand how this is scary and difficult for her. And that there is no pressure from me... that I will give her as much time as she thinks she needs.
Best for last....
After dinner, we went to the area of the restaurant where the bathrooms were. Outside of the bathrooms there was an area with a light no (the restaurant itself was a bit dark)... W went to use the restroom and I waited for her in this area. While she was in the restroom... I turned the light off.
When she walked out... I handed her purse to her... put my hands on her shoulder... told her to close her eyes... I gently kissed her face and by her ear and hugged her tight. Initially, I could feel a tiny bit of hesitation on her part... but then it disappeared and she let me IN... for those few brief moments... she let me IN.
Again... after we had gone to the bar and then arrived back to my house... and as I was saying goodbye to her... I gently kissed her like I had at the restaurant... there was no hesitation on her part.
We embraced in a tight hug... and then she left.
BITS
Denver
I forgot one other very important thing that my W and I discussed...
W asked me how I was going to handle issue of her having had dated OM during our S in the future if we work on M. She asked me if it was something that I was going to throw in her face the first time that we have an argument.
I told W that, for me, it was something that would have to be put in a locked vault in the back of mind... and that the key to that vault would have to be thrown away. That it was not something that I wanted to think about in the future. And that I knew that it would not be healthy for our M for me to ever throw it in her face.
I told her that 'forgiveness' was something that I have been working on since she left... before I knew all of the specifics of her R with OM. That I had learned that forgiveness was a gift to myself. That I needed to forgive myself for all of the bad things that I have done to W over the years... for the way that I have treated her and made her feel... And that I needed to also be able to forgive her for what has happened during our S. W said that she was surprised how I have so quickly recovered from what she told me two weeks ago about her R with OM... that she does not know me to be a forgiving person... that she expected me to throw my steak knife across the restaurant when she told me... i just reiterated that my old self probably would have.
W also flat out told me that I am not in a competition with OM. But that I am in a competition with old self... funny her saying that after there was so much discussion on my thread about that being the case.
BITS
Denver
It will not be easy, you will have to be committed to it. I'm proud of you!
Denver:
There is not much to add as others have already said it.
You are heading in the right direction. Do not let your desire to reach your goal quickly effect the path.
"Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet."
Denver, I was smiling through your entire post. My gosh, what a victory for you, for the BITS and for all LBS's everywhere. You deserve the Silver Star for your guts, patience, perseverance, and ability to DB in the face of overwhelming odds!!!! You are a true DBing Hero, my friend.
Bravo! Please stay the course and finish this thing. You have the tools, you have the knowledge, you have the faith, you have the love. Do it!
BITS never walk alone!!!
FOBD
Thanks everyone for the continued support.
UPDATE...
My W was meeting with her mom and sister to plan her sister's baby shower that is scheduled in 3 weeks.
I called W to see if SS wanted to hang out with me for the day. I wanted to take him to the gym to teach him how to play racquetball and to swim. W didn't answer but called back a while later. She told me that SS did want to go with me, but it would be a couple of hours before she was meeting her mom and sister.
At around 4 p.m. W called... I was having coffee with a friend of mine. W suggested that she meet me at the coffee shop so that she could say hello to my friend. She and SS arrived and hung out for about a half of an hour.
W left and I took SS to the gym. I called W when we left and and asked her if I could take her and SS out for dinner. She agreed. We met at my house. Went and ate dinner... had fun time.
I got home a little while ago. W texted me:
W: "Thanks for dinner. It was nice to hang out. Night!"
Me: "You are welcome! I hope to hang out like that a lot more... and for a very, very long time.
"
W: "
"
The only down side to the day and evening is that W told me that OM has been helping SS with a science project at school. It is a project that they have already started. W told me that he is coming to her house tomorrow night to work on it with SS and that he is making her dinner.
Obviously, I don't like this at all.
BUT... W made this statement:
"I asked OM if you would
still finish project with SS, and he agreed to."
The word 'still' to me suggests that she meant that she asked OM if he would finish the project even though he knows that she is coming back to me. Maybe I'm wrong... but don't think so.
That's it.
BITS
Denver
That statement by W should have been:
"I asked OM if he would still finish project with SS, and he agreed to."
omg!!!
all so wonderful, all so good
just keep it up denver..i'm a bit proud of you, you know?
i think you are correct about the "still" thing
YAY!!
Denver
As far as the OM coming over to finish this project, yeah it [censored] that the dink will be there but maybe you will have to bite the bullet on this one since it is for your SS. The positive I see is that your W told you all about this event. This probably wouldn't have been to hard to hide, but she chose to be completely honest with you, even though I'm sure she knew it would be an uncomfortable subject. Says a lot about were she wants to head with your R.
Thanks grr!
IW - Yeah, my W is definitely being completely honest about the current situation. We've literally spent hours and hours talking about it. Not fun, for sure. But I really think that, ultimately, it will be good. She and I are establishing an emotional connection over this as weird as that may sound. I think that I am regaining her trust in me as someone who she can share her heart with... and as someone who is not going to judge her.
Still... it is all very strange and surreal right now.
BITS
Denver
you are right in the pocket, dude. I think you are on the right path for sure.
We have to keep reminding each other to stay patient and keep doing what you are doing!
great stuff, man!!!!
Denver, she is no longer hiding the OM. That is a very good thing. Remember, when it is out in the open, it is not as fun or shiny. Yes, using the word "still" probably had some significance. Just be careful, OK? That last text could have been pushing a bit. I am glad you got a good response though.
Dude, I am telling you. This OM is "on the ropes." And, YOU PUT HIM THERE!!!
Keep posting!!!
BITS never walk alone!!
FOBD
Update...
So as told in my last update... friggin OM was going to my W's place to help SS finish (or hopefully to finish) some science project for school that he had already started helping him with.
I decided to call W today to see if I could draw her away from that situation... I offered to take her shopping!! LOL...
I've known for a while that she has wanted some "ug" boots and I figured that she'd really need them for our trip to Buffalo.
So anyway, I called her this afternoon to see if she wanted to meet me at the mall ... Of course, she was excited when I told her that I wanted to buy her the boots... and agreed to meet me after I got off of work.
Ended up hanging out with her for 3 hours while OM was helping SS with his project. I bought her the boots and she did a little shopping for herself too. I helped her pick out an outfit for Buffalo... good times.
She did mention that she was feeling a little badly about being with me while OM was 'watching SS'... She said that OM was driving her crazy and 'smothering' her...
After shopping, I walked her to her car... She thanked me for the boots and I told her that I enjoy spoiling her... She said that she is looking forward to the trip to Buffalo and that she thinks we'll have fun. I hugged and kissed the top of her head and told her goodnight... and went to my car.
On my way home, she called me bc she said she had meant to ask me if I could drive her and SS to airport on Wednesday (she is leaving for Buffalo 1 day before me)... I told her that I could... We chatted for a couple of minutes and then said goodbye.
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Denver
Did she choose the cute ones with the button on the side? How long will you two be in Buffalo? If the honeymoon at Niagara Falls goes well, OM will just be a memory. I think you are doing really great.
Did she choose the cute ones with the button on the side? How long will you two be in Buffalo? If the honeymoon at Niagara Falls goes well, OM will just be a memory. I think you are doing really great.
LOL... no, she chose the originals bc they seem warmer... I told her we'd buy the cute ones next winter
W, MIL, SIL and SS will be in Buffalo for a week. I am flying out a day after them and coming home 2 days before... I couldn't take that much time off from work.
I hope that you are right about OM being just a memory soon. I am being pretty good at seeming to my W that I am being very patient... but inside? Every mention of OM is like a knife in my heart... and not very patient.
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Denver
The trip to the mall to buy her boots was brilliant. You do have the OM on the ropes. Keep on keeping on.
The trip to the mall to buy her boots was brilliant. You do have the OM on the ropes. Keep on keeping on.
Ha! Thanks. I thought so ...
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Denver
Update... (from late last night... after the trip to the mall)
I texted W at 10:40 p.m. to tell her goodnight:
Me: "Hey baby... just want to say goodnight. Sorry if I seemed a little down on the phone. Didn't mean to."
W: "Don't apologize. I figured it was the situation. I'm one of hell of a cranky b!tch today though. This dvd is still giving me grief."
Me: "I miss my 'cranky b!tch' ...
No luck w getting it copied?"
W: "Ha!
I will remind you that you said that one day. There are some things you should be happy not to have to deal with. Still exporting!"
Me: "Keep that text!! LOL!!! I wish I could help u with that dvd... but would be blind leading the blind"
W: "Thanks. I'm sure it will work out. Get some rest. Talk to you tomorrow. Night!"
Me: "Ok. goodnight."
-------
W called me at around 5 this evening... we just chatted about her day and the trip to Buffalo. I am not taking W to airport bc I "still don't know where [she] lives". This issue is getting irritating. I guess that my W still isn't ready to share that with me.
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Denver
patience, my friend
she is giving you as much as she can right now
I know grr... just frustrating as hel!
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Denver
Is there any reason why you haven't flat out asked her where she lives? I mean she has your SS so as a parent you have a right to know.
I have a really, really good idea. That's number 1.
But mainly, I'm respecting her wishes... I have been since the day that she left... and I credit that for much of the progress that I've made.
I believe that I am very close here... I don't want to f it up by being impatient now. Not sure if you are caught up with my thread Bond... but W has been spending a lot of time with me and has told me that she is leaning towards working on M... that I am only in competition with my old self...
I am actually going on a trip with her in a couple of days. OM's days are numbered... and as it is, nothing is going on with them...
My W's main reason for hiding her address from me is that she is afraid that I will actually hurt this guy... I made an unfortunate mistake very early on in threatening him (to her) ... and it scared her.
I'm just being patient man... it [censored], and I have certainly had to swallow a lot of pride... but what I've been doing has been working...
focusing on the big picture
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Denver
Denver, you really are making all the right moves, my man. The trip to the mall was excellent. And, you pulled it off while the OM was babysitting. Dude, we are going to get you a giant, shiny brass championship belt to wear around soon.
OK, patience now as grr is right. She is really giving you all you can have right now. Don't sweat the address and don't sweat what you are not yet getting. You and I started here and I remember when you would have stepped over a dead body to have what you have now. And, don't forget, I am still standing that the starting line waiting for the permission to move forward... Besides, if you really wanted the address, I am sure your SS would give you that info. But, don't ask for it. Nothing good will come from that. If she were to catch you spying, it would destroy months of work.
I can't believe she is talking about a future together!!!! Awesome!
Keep the good news coming!
FOBD
Denver, you really are making all the right moves, my man. The trip to the mall was excellent. And, you pulled it off while the OM was babysitting. Dude, we are going to get you a giant, shiny brass championship belt to wear around soon.
OK, patience now as grr is right. She is really giving you all you can have right now. Don't sweat the address and don't sweat what you are not yet getting. You and I started here and I remember when you would have stepped over a dead body to have what you have now. And, don't forget, I am still standing that the starting line waiting for the permission to move forward... Besides, if you really wanted the address, I am sure your SS would give you that info. But, don't ask for it. Nothing good will come from that. If she were to catch you spying, it would destroy months of work.
I can't believe she is talking about a future together!!!! Awesome!
Keep the good news coming!
FOBD
Actually, SS has given me the address... think it was back in middle of December... but I haven't snooped. My issue is that despite all of the progress that I've made... W is still keeping it hidden from me... I know it's bc she's concerned about what I will do IF things don't work out the way that they are headed right now (reconciliation)...
And yes... any prodding or spying is not good for me now... not at all... I don't really feel that I need to anyway.
I like that championship belt idea!!! I'd wear it all of the time!!
Denver, how does it feel to be the envy of the boards?
Great job man, keep it up, you are inspiring a lot of people, myself included, right now!
Yes I have been following your sitch which is why I thought it was odd that she is talking about maybe getting back, yet doesn't tell you where she's living.
IMO it's not the OM she's worried about. It's her. She doesn't "trust" you so she has her runaway hideout safely hidden in case she decides not to confront the things she's done.
It's one thing if it were just the two of you, however since there is a child involved, you have a right to find out if the place she decides to put him in is safe. I'm not saying that you don't trust her to give you SS a safe environment to live in. I'm just saying that as the other parent, you need to find out for yourself.
Plus many WAS's are so caught up in the "fog", that they don't make rationale choices. Or convince themeselves of things that aren't true.
Bond, your point is valid, and definitely correct that it is the other parents "right" to know where your child is living, but just because it is a right, does not necessarily mean it has to be an issue to push.
In my sitch, I just haven't asked, although I have asked many questions on what it is like to make sure it is safe, I have not requested the address. I am very comfortable in knowing that my D is in a safe environment there. If I need the address at some point I will get it, but I do not feel it is an issue I need to push right now.
Denver, how does it feel to be the envy of the boards?
Great job man, keep it up, you are inspiring a lot of people, myself included, right now!
Thanks Country. I know that I am blessed to be having some success recently. It feels really good. I do know, however, that I owe this board and everyone here a lot! The support that I have received has just been amazing.
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Denver
Yes I have been following your sitch which is why I thought it was odd that she is talking about maybe getting back, yet doesn't tell you where she's living.
IMO it's not the OM she's worried about. It's her. She doesn't "trust" you so she has her runaway hideout safely hidden in case she decides not to confront the things she's done.
You may be right. I still think that it is bc she is worried that IF thing don't work out where we work on M that I will 'spy' on her or try to confront OM if he ends up remaining in her life. I made the mistake of threatening him to her back in November and it scared her. But the bottom line is that she isn't ready to share that with me for whatever reason. Either way, I am willing to suck it up and be patient for now though.
It's one thing if it were just the two of you, however since there is a child involved, you have a right to find out if the place she decides to put him in is safe. I'm not saying that you don't trust her to give you SS a safe environment to live in. I'm just saying that as the other parent, you need to find out for yourself.
Plus many WAS's are so caught up in the "fog", that they don't make rationale choices. Or convince themeselves of things that aren't true.
I think that your point is good Bond... But I don't have any real concerns about SS being in a safe place. I actually have a very good idea of where they live. My SS gave me the address back in December... I just haven't used it or let my W know that I know. It is in a very nice neighborhood about 5 minutes from my house.
Denver
I've noticed a change in you. Your not spending nearly the amount of time on here that you did before and that is great. Don't get me wrong, we all miss your input, but you are becoming less dependent on this site. That is something we will all have to do eventually, no matter how the outcome of our M. Country is right, you are the envy of the board. I enjoy reading about your continued success and wish you the best.
Yeah IW I haven't been spending as much time here. I wish that I could, but 'piecing' or whatever stage that it is that I'm in with W is like a second full time job!
UPDATE...
Just a quick update before I leave for Buffalo this afternoon.
W and I have had contact by both telephone and text messages everyday since I saw her last... which was our trip to the mall on Monday night.
During one of our telephone conversations, either yesterday or Tuesday, she told me to wear my wedding ring to Buffalo. She said that she is wearing her's. Her reasoning is that her family there does not know that she and I are separated and she didn't want questions to come up.
Her true intent? I don't know. Probably... but who knows. She did jokingly say that she has been looking for an excuse to wear it.
She, MIL, SS, SIL and niece flew out yesterday. I am flying out today. I had a court appearance this morning that I could not miss, so had to go out later. BIL was suppose to go with me, but had to change plans due to an illness in his family in Louisiana.
Not much else to report. I will try to update during the trip if the opportunity arises.
Thanks for continued support everyone!!
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Denver
During one of our telephone conversations, either yesterday or Tuesday, she told me to wear my wedding ring to Buffalo. She said that she is wearing her's. Her reasoning is that her family there does not know that she and I are separated and she didn't want questions to come up.
Her true intent? I don't know. Probably... but who knows. She did jokingly say that she has been looking for an excuse to wear it.
Wow, that's awesome to hear! Joking or not, take that as a HUGE positive step. In my sitch, putting the rings back on will symbolize to me that we really are piecing. Congrats on the next step in the journey!
Well, she said one thing right, she was looking for an excuse to put them back on.
Denver, you will be in all our prayers over the next several days. I know that you are going to do awesome and I know that you have got your head on right to deal with what comes to you. The best you can do is create as many good feelings as you possibly can in the time that you have with her. Understand what you are doing here is right and you should be going only because it is right and for no other reason. Feel good about that. You'll have your ups and downs but rest on the fact that you are doing all that you possibly can to be a good man and do what is right.
I'm so happy that you've gotten this opportunity. God knows you deserve it. I'm praying for you.
LIS
I agree with LP. That is a great sign about the rings no matter what your W's reasoning is.
Have a safe trip Denver.
Thanks LP, LIS and LITB... The 'L' group! LOL
I'm excited for this trip.... and focused.
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Denver
Safe travels my friend.
You are too smart for me to wish you luck.
Good luck man. Don't forget to get some wings while your there!
Fair winds and following seas, my man. I can't wait to hear about the details when you get back. I wish the best to you and your wife's family at such a tough time.
Try to enjoy the trip as much as possible!!
FOBD
Country, FOBD, 2Step... thanks guys! This kind of support is why this board is so great. And yes Country... plan on eating plenty of wings!
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Denver